Andy Reid isnt the coach we need.

[Reerun_KC]

CP loves to treat the symptom while at times ignoring the disease.

Since everyone wants to be cool and bash the lame ass QB we have, we might want to look just a little deeper and discuss the HC that hand selected him to be the QB of this team.


We aren't going anywhere with Reid's preparations and game plans. His play calling is pathetic and predictable. His tendency's to remove the WRs from the game plan is inexcusable.


Until we get rid of Reid, we are stuck with Smith...

[Discuss Thrower]

Andy Reid's record with Jim Johnson as defensive coordinator: 97-62-1 (.606) in the regular season, 10-7 in the playoffs (.588).

Without Johnson, Reid is 51-42 (.548) and 0-3 in the playoffs.

[Reerun_KC]

Andy Reid's record with Jim Johnson as defensive coordinator: 97-62-1 (.606) in the regular season, 10-7 in the playoffs (.588).

Without Johnson, Reid is 51-42 (.548) and 0-3 in the playoffs.

:eek:

[bevischief]

pooptaco.

[Big Poppa Payne]

He's sorry

[Beef Supreme]

...but he's the coach we deserve.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608026314188721937&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

[Reerun_KC]

It was the Oakland game that finally drove the nail in the coffin for Reerun...

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with the lack of talent on this roster. But when he had 10 days to prepare for Denver and came out and turned Arrowhead into Brokeback Arrowhead, it was time to start saying something about it here.

Its easy to blast Smith, you learn to blame the QB in CP 101 for everything...

But its time that Reid is held accountable.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

It's shocking, to me, that a morbidly obese fat ass doesn't field a more disciplined football team.

[bevischief]

...but he's the coach we deserve.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608026314188721937&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

:banghead::BLVD:

[MichaelH]

He's sorry

The local BBQ joints are happy.

[chokeartist]

It's shocking, to me, that a morbidly obese fat ass doesn't field a more disciplined football team.

I was waiting for this ROFL

[RealSNR]

Not that we have a chance at bringing him aboard, but once Rex gets fired from NY, he would be perfect to work with Reid.

But Reid will be loyal to a fault and fuck it up. Won't even bother picking up the phone.

[Three7s]

It was the Oakland game that finally drove the nail in the coffin for Reerun...

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with the lack of talent on this roster. But when he had 10 days to prepare for Denver and came out and turned Arrowhead into Brokeback Arrowhead, it was time to start saying something about it here.

Its easy to blast Smith, you learn to blame the QB in CP 101 for everything...

But its time that Reid is held accountable.
I'm sure Reid will apologize for something tomorrow, and the next week, and the week after that as the losses keep mounting.

[Discuss Thrower]

Not that we have a chance at bringing him aboard, but once Rex gets fired from NY, he would be perfect to work with Reid.

But Reid will be loyal to a fault and fuck it up. Won't even bother picking up the phone.

Again. If Berry is out for cancer, DJ isn't effective after his achilles tear, Poe is worn out, Hali is waived and Houston is seeking a big pay day then why do you stay with the 3-4?

[Reerun_KC]

What I am afraid of is that the Hunts will be loyal to Reid like they were with Peterson and Failurehiemer.

If that's the case we are looking at a long long time before we can be a real football team again...

[bevischief]

But the turdtaco we are stuck with...

[BeeHo]

CP loves to treat the symptom while at times ignoring the disease.

Since everyone wants to be cool and bash the lame ass QB we have, we might want to look just a little deeper and discuss the HC that hand selected him to be the QB of this team.


We aren't going anywhere with Reid's preparations and game plans. His play calling is pathetic and predictable. His tendency's to remove the WRs from the game plan is inexcusable.


Until we get rid of Reid, we are stuck with Smith...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/79/796ce1e161e0fb8dd856c5f99ed094919ee2aa74d89f72a8f0a6af95a1742eed.jpg

[Red Dawg]

We are on year two of turning over damn near the whole roster. Firing Andy would make us look like idiots that expect miracles. Dorsey will have his team on the field soon and it be include some actual NFL receivers. Next year it will be close to being complete.

[Three7s]

What I am afraid of is that the Hunts will be loyal to Reid like they were with Peterson and Failurehiemer.

If that's the case we are looking at a long long time before we can be a real football team again...
When was the last time the Chiefs were a real football team? Not in my lifetime.

[Bowser]

I'll take Reid as long as we can find a QB that isn't afraid to go down the field.

[kcxiv]

We are on year two of turning over damn near the whole roster. Firing Andy would make us look like idiots that expect miracles. Dorsey will have his team on the field soon and it be include some actual NFL receivers. Next year it will be close to being complete.

They have to draft a WR. There is no way in hell any legit WR is going to sign with the Chiefs. Its career suicide. ITs almost a Sure bet that if a WR signs with KC, he will have his worst season as a WR.

NO agent is going to let his client sign with the Chiefs. Thats being a bad agent. lol

[Prison Bitch]

...but he's the coach we deserve.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608026314188721937&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

+1

[BeeHo]

I'll take Reid as long as we can find a QB that isn't afraid to go down the field.

matt cassel.

[Prison Bitch]

I'll take Reid as long as we can find a QB that isn't afraid to go down the field.

This is Reid's guy though.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Andy isn't going anywhere in the offseason. Move on...

[Discuss Thrower]

We are on year two of turning over damn near the whole roster. Firing Andy would make us look like idiots that expect miracles. Dorsey will have his team on the field soon and it be include some actual NFL receivers. Next year it will be close to being complete.

As of now, the Chiefs need a replacement for Berry, will likely need one for DJ, need one for the ILB next to DJ, a replacement for Tamba Hali and possibly one for Houston.

And that's just on defense.

This team is 3-4 years away from being capable of winning a playoff game.

[cdcox]

We are on year two of turning over damn near the whole roster. Firing Andy would make us look like idiots that expect miracles. Dorsey will have his team on the field soon and it be include some actual NFL receivers. Next year it will be close to being complete.

Do you believe in sideways passing?

[Gonzo]

10 carries? After a start like that? WTF?

[bevischief]

It will be a :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: rest of the season and then some...

[TambaBerry]

Over a year since a wr caught a touchdown. Absolutely inexcusable.

[milkman]

Reerun, you area fucking idiot.

Some of us told you when he was hired that this is what Reid is.

Others have placed more than the fair share of blame on Reid over the course of the his nearly 2 seasons.

Don't act like you're here with some kind of newsflash.

[GloryDayz]

Think of the family who owns the team then rethink your comments. When it gets bad enough (when it looks like the easy money might be affected) the family will make a move. Until then, this is a spoiled little rich kid's play-toy that pays him millions upon millions of spending money and a nationwide name for the family even if they tank.

Expect Andy's replacement to be another re-tread Andy who has some past name recognition.

[cdcox]

10 carries? After a start like that? WTF?

Charles was not very effective running the ball today aside from the long TD run. His other 9 carries netted a total of 28 yards.

His last 6 carries were for:

1, 3, 2, 2, 1 and 0 yards.

Teams are putting all their players in the box and we have no answer. It is exactly the pattern that happened when Herm was running the offense and LJ became less and less effective. You have to have a downfield component of your passing game to keep defenses honest.

[GloryDayz]

And I'll add that when Hunt/Dorsey/Reid lost what they lost last year and brought-in nothing effective to replace those gaps, we all knew we were looking at a crisis being managed by a group of goons.

[milkman]

Charles was not very effective running the ball today aside from the long TD run. His other 9 carries netted a total of 28 yards.

His last 6 carries were for:

1, 3, 2, 2, 1 and 0 yards.

Teams are putting all their players in the box and we have no answer. It is exactly the pattern that happened when Herm was running the offense and LJ became less and less effective. You have to have a downfield component of your passing game to keep defenses honest.

Alex Smith has attempted 15 passes of 20 yards or more this season.

What's the problem?

[Molitoth]

Reerun, you area ****ing idiot.

Some of us told you when he was hired that this is what Reid is.

Others have placed more than the fair share of blame on Reid over the course of the his nearly 2 seasons.

Don't act like you're here with some kind of newsflash.

Bam

[Buzz]

Alex Smith has attempted 15 passes of 20 yards or more this season.

What's the problem?


He's not accurate over 10.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The grace period for Reid is over.

Horrible, horrible game day coach. Truly sucks balls.

[Snapplez]

He said it the day he acquired Smith, "I'm going to make him a hall of famer like Lenny."

It's goddamn laughable

[tboss27]

I was joking around with approximately .20 left that Andy would call a screen pass. Wasn't so funny when it actually happended a couple seconds later.

[penbrook]

Per Terez Paylor

Andy Reid on the officials: "Go on to something besides the officials, because I don't have anything good to say.”

[Reerun_KC]

When was the last time the Chiefs were a real football team? Not in my lifetime.

Yeah poor choice of words. Sorry...

[Reerun_KC]

I'll take Reid as long as we can find a QB that isn't afraid to go down the field.

Over his hand picked QB? Reid is tied to Smith. Smith fails = Reid failed as a HC...

[Jerm]

Per Terez Paylor

Andy Reid on the officials: "Go on to something besides the officials, because I don't have anything good to say.”

That's the thing though...he never has anything to say. He should've been going apeshit on the field and then after the game too.

[Mr. Laz]

When we hired i said he was a good rebuild guy but that we needed to have someone ready to replace him in 5 years.

Dorsey keeps sucking and we might have to make it 4 years.

[penbrook]

That's the thing though...he never has anything to say. He should've been going apeshit on the field and then after the game too.

He needs to act like Jim Harbaugh. I hear he's available

[Easy 6]

Per Terez Paylor

Andy Reid on the officials: "Go on to something besides the officials, because I don't have anything good to say.”

Yes, the refs sucked dong, Andy.

But the fact is your team sucked it harder, Smith isnt really doing what you envisioned him doing, is he?

[Reerun_KC]

Reerun, you area ****ing idiot.

Some of us told you when he was hired that this is what Reid is.

Others have placed more than the fair share of blame on Reid over the course of the his nearly 2 seasons.

Don't act like you're here with some kind of newsflash.

I see the rest home got the wifi fixed... howdy Gpa....

[ChiefsChoke010414]

Charles was not very effective running the ball today aside from the long TD run. His other 9 carries netted a total of 28 yards.

His last 6 carries were for:

1, 3, 2, 2, 1 and 0 yards.

Teams are putting all their players in the box and we have no answer. It is exactly the pattern that happened when Herm was running the offense and LJ became less and less effective. You have to have a downfield component of your passing game to keep defenses honest.

But Charles has never had a good passing game nor a good offensive line. Yet, he's the all time leader in YPC. Haven't teams stacked the box against him before? I would imagine they've done it his whole career.

They need to keep feeding him the rock, because he's the only big play threat we have.

[Reerun_KC]

When we hired i said he was a good rebuild guy but that we needed to have someone ready to replace him in 5 years.

Dorsey keeps sucking and we might have to make it 4 years.

Well two years down, so there are only 2-3 years left...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

He said it the day he acquired Smith, "I'm going to make him a hall of famer like Lenny."

It's goddamn laughable

Ah yes, THAT little gem. That moment solidified my hate, made me powerful.

[ChiefsChoke010414]

He needs to act like Jim Harbaugh. I hear he's available

Hard to imagine why he's available. He's already won more playoff games for the 49'ers than the Chiefs have won in the last 30 years.

[GloryDayz]

That's the thing though...he never has anything to say. He should've been going apeshit on the field and then after the game too.
This x90000000000. He's exactly what the league wants and this city can't afford. 1969 could turn into 2169 before we hire a coach willing to play every aspect of the game.

God I'd love to have a Pete Carroll. He often rubs me the wrong way, but that's prolly because he's not on our sideline.

And I'll always blame the Hunts for allowing this team to show the fans so little care and concern.

[GloryDayz]

Yes, the refs sucked dong, Andy.

But the fact is your team sucked it harder, Smith isnt really doing what you envisioned him doing, is he?
Not defending Andy, but I'm sure he never thought an O-line could be this bad. That's how he's dumb, he, Hunt, and Dorsey let this happen.

And if their plan is to wait-out Pm because he's the NFL's darling, then it's time to admit it.

We're getting close to banner time because even if we end up, somehow, with a winning record, this group ain't ever gonna do shit.

[In58men]

I saw this from the very beginning when he quickly went after Alex Smith. He jumped the gun on that.

[tk13]

Overreaction city here. Everybody makes fun of Harbaugh for being a jerk and it appears the Niners are burned out on him. That Tony Pena crap doesn't work. Same reason everyone always wants one of the Ryans for some strange reason. They get excited by a big loudmouth, like it actually makes a difference. Bill Belichick has the personality of a brick and he has no problem winning.

[Jerm]

Well I think it's pretty clear that a combo of Reid/Smith isn't winning shit so it'll be interesting to see if Dorsey has the balls to do anything about it.

[KCwolf]

I saw this from the very beginning when he quickly went after Alex Smith. He jumped the gun on that.

you are like a savant

[tk13]

I actually think the Reid tenure will probably end badly here, just because the guy hasn't changed in 15 years, and people still can't pick up on it. His teams will generally overachieve, but commit a ton of time management errors and blow a few games here and there they shouldn't. He's going to throw tons of short passes and not call enough running plays, etc, etc. He's never going to change.

But considering he took over a 2-14 team that was completely at rock bottom, he's done better than I thought he would. The disaster that was Pioli's last year is almost forgotten at this point.

[Easy 6]

Overreaction city here. Everybody makes fun of Harbaugh for being a jerk and it appears the Niners are burned out on him. That Tony Pena crap doesn't work. Same reason everyone always wants one of the Ryans for some strange reason. They get excited by a big loudmouth, like it actually makes a difference. Bill Belichick has the personality of a brick and he has no problem winning.

Overreaction on this game?

Horseshit... the more important the game, the worse we look... and Smith is still batting like, .120 when playing from behind. Piss on the kneejerk charge.

[007]

Clark Hunt. Heh

[Pablo]

I'm positive the only clock Andy can manage is the timer on his stove.

Reid has married himself to Smith. That's his guy. He got to go to the store, he's cooked up this shit stew. Whatever they are trying to accomplish right now is just destined to fail.

[tk13]

I meant the Harbaugh thing. I'm not looking forward to an offseason of BS with people getting excited about Rex Ryan. I think today's loss was terrible, but yeah I don't get too high or too low about individual games. On the road against the team with the best record in the league, we were competitive. The season isn't over quite yet. This wasn't as bad as the Raiders loss. That was 100 times more frustrating than this, at least to me.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Clark Hunt. Heh

Yeah, someone PLEASE tell me again how "the decisions made by the last regime have no bearing on the outcomes of the present regime" and FUCK YO' MAMA:


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8jMTdphjLAA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Reerun_KC]

I'm positive the only clock Andy can manage is the timer on his stove.

Reid has married himself to Smith. That's his guy. He got to go to the store, he's cooked up this shit stew. Whatever they are trying to accomplish right now is just destined to fail.

This...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

When a coach, ANY coach, makes you long for Schottenhiemer....oh fuck.

[Valiant]

As of now, the Chiefs need a replacement for Berry, will likely need one for DJ, need one for the ILB next to DJ, a replacement for Tamba Hali and possibly one for Houston.

And that's just on defense.

This team is 3-4 years away from being capable of winning a playoff game.

And by then a replacement for Smith, Charles and sadly Bowe...

If we are going to lose, let Charles get 15-22 touches a game.. Oh wait, we would have won most of our losses if they did that..

[Rain Man]

That last attempt at a drive was a sheer abomination, one of the worst things I've seen in 40 years of Chiefs football. Even if all those one-yard passes were successful, it would've taken a nine-minute drive to score. And they weren't even successful.

But it's so hard to diagnose the problem. Is it ....

...an acknowledgement that the line is so bad that a 15-yard pass is impossible to pull off?

...Alex Smith being so conservative that he is incapable of looking downfield?

...Andy Reid having a system that simply doesn't include passing more than 5 yards downfield?

I could add a fourth theory about having bad wide receivers, but on that last drive the receivers were never even considered. So that can't be the actual problem.

I know it'll be fun to say, "All of the above", but seriously, one of the above has to be driving the problem. Which is it?

[ROYC75]

We are on year two of turning over damn near the whole roster. Firing Andy would make us look like idiots that expect miracles. Dorsey will have his team on the field soon and it be include some actual NFL receivers. Next year it will be close to being complete.

Maybe 2 years, we have too many holes and question marks!

[notorious]

I'm positive the only clock Andy can manage is the timer on his stove.

.

ROFL

[GloryDayz]

you are like a savantI'd love to titty fuck your avatar!

[GloryDayz]

Clark Hunt. Heh

That name should be replaced wit this:

Raiduhs

[stevieray]

I've never liked HC's who call plays.

arrogant as hell.

[NJChiefsFan]

It's ironic that 2 major plays were us giving up on 3rd and 16 and trying to set up a field goal and instead throw a pick. That is followed by ARI scoring a TD on a 3rd and 18 where they were actually trying to score a TD. Horrible safety play on that score by the way. Who the hell bites on a 10 yard hook route on 3rd and long with a WR running past you.

I know in certain situations it's smart to just take some yards and punt or kick the FG, but we do it a majority of the time, even on a 3rd and 8 or so. You can't expect to win big games that way.

[Discuss Thrower]

So what happens if Oakland lands Harbaugh as HC?

Will the Chiefs ever finish in the top half of the AFCW?

[Sure-Oz]

I think Reid is a good coach....lacking talent on this team esp offensively

[FloridaMan88]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.

[Discuss Thrower]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.

Don't look at how the 2013 Seahawks were constructed...

[Dave Lane]

I'll take Reid as long as we can find a QB that isn't afraid to go down the field.

Or has to have 2 definitions of open. NFL open and Alex Smith open.

[FloridaMan88]

Don't look at how the 2013 Seahawks were constructed...

Seattle's WR's caught 17 TD passes last year.

The Chiefs WR's have zero through 13 games.

[Discuss Thrower]

Seattle's WR's caught 17 TD passes last year.

The Chiefs WR's have zero through 13 games.

Would you like to know more?

Best case scenario is something like the Seahawks whose core players were mostly drafted from 2010-2012 for a win in 2013.

Visually, and including second stringers and UDFAs:

2010: Golden Tate, Russel Okung, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, Walter Thurmond Lemuel Jeanpierre
2011: KJ Wright, Richard Sherman, Malcolm Smith, James Carpenter, Byron Maxwell Doug Baldwin
2012: Russell Wilson, JR Sweezy, Bobby Wagner, Bruce Irvin, Robert Turbin Jermaine Kearse, DeShawn Shead

11 starters.

Thomas and Chancellor made the Pro Bowl in their second season in '11 with Thomas being joined by Okung and Wilson in '12.

Extrapolating that out for KC's sake, but saying 2016 is the payoff year.

2012: Poe, Allen, Stephenson, Gray, Hemingway
2013: Fisher, Kelce, Davis, Nico Johnson, Commings, Kush, Catapano (Cooper, off the waiver wire) Hammond, Dem. Harris, Josh Martin
2014: Ford, Gaines, D'AT, Murray, Fulton, Duvernay-Tardif Santos, Al Wilson,

Poe made the PB in his second year.. And there isn't anyone from the '13 draft class that looks like they're far enough along to warrant that kind of consideration.

Of course this is comparing a world champion team in '13 in Seattle to a backed-in to the postseason with a wildcard Kansas City. Recognizing the 'hawks roster doesn't prove it's impossible for KC to win anything.

My point being is that a team that won the SB recently did it through a solid slate of drafting and depth UDFA pickups. Three of their 2010 picks were starters and one was a second stringer at the end of 2011. Then it was four 2010 picks starting with two backups joined by three 2011 picks on the starting along with two backups.

Poe and (at the moment) Allen are the only starters picked from 2012, Fisher and Cooper are the only '13 picks starting. That's 2 or 3 starters, 4 if you include Allen. Next year, there might only be three more guys from 2013 cracking the starting lineup in Kelce, Kush or Hammond. That's 6-7 guys acquired from '12 and '13 coming in as starters: and only one of them is at the level of a very good player in Poe.


Take that into consideration and Dorsey will need to have ALL of the guys acquired in '14 to become above average stars to duplicate the success the Seahawks had in 2013 for a Super Bowl run in 2015. Is that probable? No, and that's not a pessimistic thing to say.

Then you look to 2016, which would mean the guys from '14 are well established veterans who garner pro bowl consideration and the guys drafted in 2015 are developing into role players with some starters mixed in. Will that net a championship? Unlikely, unless there are two or three guys from the '15 draft who flash pro bowl level talent after less than two seasons in the league, so you look to the next season then.

So, really, 2017 might be when we can start to think a championship is based somewhat in reality. My issue with this is that it relies heavily on the guys drafted four months ago being top-flight league talent.. And while it's certainly possible, it would mean KC has a guy as good or better than Houston at OLB in Dee Ford, a Sproles-like playmaker in D'AT, a very good corner in Gaines, Murray as the starting QB, Albert Wilson as a lights-out #2 receiver and Fulton and DVT as excellent interior linemen with Santos being a clutch kicker. That's a LOOOOOOONG list of what-ifs.

Thus logically the Chiefs, assuming they are going to win anything, have yet to draft the guys who will be the foundation capable of earning a Lombardi. That means KC is a year away from beginning to lay that foundation, and ONLY if Dorsey proves to be a better evaluator of talent and a GM savvy enough to sign FAs and re-sign guys who are key more so than what he's demonstrated so far.

[Psyko Tek]

It was the Oakland game that finally drove the nail in the coffin for Reerun...

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with the lack of talent on this roster. But when he had 10 days to prepare for Denver and came out and turned Arrowhead into Brokeback Arrowhead, it was time to start saying something about it here.

Its easy to blast Smith, you learn to blame the QB in CP 101 for everything...

But its time that Reid is held accountable.

he cannot prep fpor the raiders or broncos, and todasy we got ref fucked, but nothing special in the play calling I was telling the people next to me what would be called nad , none of it worked...

[GloryDayz]

I think Reid is a good coach....lacking talent on this team esp offensively
Don't live in the past, he's not what he once was. As for talent, yes he's dealing with very little of it below and above him.

[GloryDayz]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.
What else is new, it's always some opportunity missed on June's team.

1969........

[Jimmya]

Chiefs will struggle to win a playoff game as long as Andy keeps trying to call the plays.

[Bob Dole]

Those who clamor for a new head coach every 2-3 years deserve everything this team is.

[BigMeatballDave]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.
Bullshit. If Reid wanted a WR, Dorsey would have gotten him one.

Blame Dorsey for the shit on OL.

I'm willing to give Dorsey more time.

I'm done with Reid. He's too old to go changing his ways.

[BigMeatballDave]

Those who clamor for a new head coach every 2-3 years deserve everything this team is.

I'm okay with changing the HC out that often if needed, but not the GM.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Bullshit. If Reid wanted a WR, Dorsey would have gotten him one.

Blame Dorsey for the shit on OL.

I'm willing to give Dorsey more time.

I'm done with Reid. He's too old to go changing his ways.

This.

[chiefzilla1501]

Not that we have a chance at bringing him aboard, but once Rex gets fired from NY, he would be perfect to work with Reid.

But Reid will be loyal to a fault and fuck it up. Won't even bother picking up the phone.
I think Sutton will get looks for head coaching. In which case, agree that Ryan is a great fit and we'd be a prime candidate to get him.

The problem is, our defense has been excellent this year even being down personnel. I think Ryan gets us better rotations, but apart from that, he's not going to fix the problems on offense. Despite what people on here say, a new oline or receivers won't fix those problems as much as we insist they will.

[RunKC]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.

Andy demanded a QB who will lead us nowhere. His own fault

[mlyonsd]

Reid sucks. If you can't see that from looking at the play calling yesterday there is no hope for you.

[chiefzilla1501]

Andy Reid was dealt a terrible hand by John Dorsey's awful offseason.

John Dorsey failed to draft a single WR from the 2014 NFL Draft which already has the most productive collective WR draft class in NFL history.

That could set the Chiefs back several years.
This team got significantly better at dline, cornerback, safety, rb depth, and te over the past 2 years. Smith has two receiving threats he didn't last year in kelce and DAT.

It's not that this team has poor talent. Its that the team needs extra talent to make up for reids mistakes and to overcome smith's shortcomings. New receivers aren't going to make Smith more aggressive. A new oline won't solve his problem of holding onto the ball for an eternity.

[ILChief]

Childress needs to be OC and calling plays. Pederson in a FSP

[Aspengc8]

Childress needs to be OC and calling plays. Pederson in a FSP

Pederson does indeed suck, but Alex as missed reads down the field as well. its a combination of factors not just one. If you watch the Kelce replay fumble on NFL.com, you can see he misses the read on that sideline flood. #13 wide open on that corner route, would have been a big gain, out of bounds, no fumble. Instead he checked down.

[ChiTown]

I'm just feeling so lost about this Franchise. This shit makes me long for the days of Paul Wiggin.....................okay, maybe not, but still.

[KCUnited]

I hear/read different things regarding who actually calls the plays.

Is it Reid or Pederson?

[chiefzilla1501]

Pederson does indeed suck, but Alex as missed reads down the field as well. its a combination of factors not just one. If you watch the Kelce replay fumble on NFL.com, you can see he misses the read on that sideline flood. #13 wide open on that corner route, would have been a big gain, out of bounds, no fumble. Instead he checked down.
I think this happens a lot more than we realize.

For the record, what Alex Smith does works fine. I don't mind the conservative approach as long as he converts third downs and closes games. He puts in a position to win almost every single game. But he is just way too inconsistent with efficiency and completely ineffective on closing drives.
Apart from the Denver loss, Smith had an opportunity to close every single game we lost and failed.

[ChiTown]

I think this happens a lot more than we realize.

For the record, what Alex Smith does works fine. I don't mind the conservative approach as long as he converts third downs and closes games. He puts in a position to win almost every single game. But he is just way too inconsistent with efficiency and completely ineffective on closing drives.
Apart from the Denver loss, Smith had an opportunity to close every single game we lost and failed.

I hear that, and somewhat agree. However, you have to have another gear to be a closer in tight games, and he does not possess that gear. Therefore, his style is good for a team full of great players, but sucks with the mediocre crap that we have accumulated.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm just feeling so lost about this Franchise. This shit makes me long for the days of Paul Wiggin.....................okay, maybe not, but still.

Its best to just quit caring...

No Sunday ticket, No NFL games other than if the Chiefs are on here in OKC...

Actually I feel relieved and a lot less stressed on Sundays. I spent more time with the wife, which has equaled some awesome, very awesome Sunday afternoons.

Still load up with college sports though....

[kcxiv]

I hear that, and somewhat agree. However, you have to have another gear to be a closer in tight games, and he does not possess that gear. Therefore, his style is good for a team full of great players, but sucks with the mediocre crap that we have accumulated.

Alex Smith is just good for fans that are ok with being good enough to be interested. As a fan you need to demand great. YOu never just settle for, well he does ok.

Alex winning games is 90 percent on the defense making plays and Alex just not ****ing it up. ITs never about Alex winning a game. Its never about Alex carrying his team on his shoulders for a big game. Cant do it.

There is a reason why we dont usually win big games late in the season. Im tired of well he going to keep us in game, how about hey he can win us a few of these games. sick of playing for 3 when everyone else is playing for 7.

As a fan, that shit is just embarrassing. I wish just for once i could brag about my football team for doing something awesome. I cant, not even towards Raider fans.

[Aspengc8]

I hear/read different things regarding who actually calls the plays.

Is it Reid or Pederson?

Unless your on the sideline you won't know for sure. Typically the coordinator calls the plays and is in charge of the offensive gameplan, and the coach has the ability to add input via the headset as well. At this point it doesnt matter. The play selection has been spotty, protection doesnt hold up, and Smith has missed deeper reads.

[Aspengc8]

I think this happens a lot more than we realize.

For the record, what Alex Smith does works fine. I don't mind the conservative approach as long as he converts third downs and closes games. He puts in a position to win almost every single game. But he is just way too inconsistent with efficiency and completely ineffective on closing drives.
Apart from the Denver loss, Smith had an opportunity to close every single game we lost and failed.

yes it happens a lot. Some of us on CP has seen A22 film and there are a lot of occasions where we have had press 1v1 on the sidelines, and Alex won't take a shot with Bowe.

2 minute drill to end the game was an example. AZ blitzed almost every play, left Bowe 1v1 pressed...

[chiefzilla1501]

I hear that, and somewhat agree. However, you have to have another gear to be a closer in tight games, and he does not possess that gear. Therefore, his style is good for a team full of great players, but sucks with the mediocre crap that we have accumulated.
That's my concern as well. 100% agree.

[kcxiv]

2 minute drill to end the game was an example. AZ blitzed almost every play, left Bowe 1v1 pressed...

Thats the part that pisses me off, he wont let his WR's make a play. Bowe had done it his whole career. give him a chance to pull one down even if he's somewhat covered. EVERY SINGLE QB does it against us. It doesnt matter WHO is the qb of the other team, they at least try it. Fail or success. They attempt it.

[Reerun_KC]

Thats the part that pisses me off, he wont let his WR's make a play. Bowe had done it his whole career. give him a chance to pull one down even if he's somewhat covered. EVERY SINGLE QB does it against us. It doesnt matter WHO is the qb of the other team, they at least try it. Fail or success. They attempt it.

I am beginning to wonder if they are not using Blowe so they can use his lack of production and drug charge to cut him at the end of the year.

Just a thought.

[Sorter]

yes it happens a lot. Some of us on CP has seen A22 film and there are a lot of occasions where we have had press 1v1 on the sidelines, and Alex won't take a shot with Bowe.

2 minute drill to end the game was an example. AZ blitzed almost every play, left Bowe 1v1 pressed...

I'll have some up tomorrow.

[kcxiv]

I am beginning to wonder if they are not using Blowe so they can use his lack of production and drug charge to cut him at the end of the year.

Just a thought.

I been on football reference and been checking out Alex Smith's production to WR's over his career. So, i would say, nope. Alex just sucks! Like i said, he's had 1 1000 yard WR in his career and thats the superbowl season in 2012 and he didnt even play in half the games.

[Reerun_KC]

I been on football reference and been checking out Alex Smith's production to WR's over his career. So, i would say, nope. Alex just sucks! Like i said, he's had 1 1000 yard WR in his career and thats the superbowl season in 2012 and he didnt even play in half the games.

Alright.

[Aspengc8]

I'll have some up tomorrow.

awesome can't wait!

[Reerun_KC]

So what will be the big Reidcuses today?

[the Talking Can]

plus he's fat

[Reerun_KC]

My guess it will be "its fixable"...

[Wallcrawler]

For as much as he wants to take responsibility, someone should fucking let him.

Yeah, youre taking responsibility. Great. What are the consequences for your shitty gameplanning and playcalling?

If youre not performing as a player, you get benched.

45 passes behind the worst Oline in football? ONE YARD PASSES with the game on the line?

Relinquish the playcalling duties. Minimum consequence for this bullshit. Take responsibility, and take your fucking benching.

If we knew before the game that Jamaal would only get 9 carries, this place would've imploded and everyone would know already that we'd lose the football game.

I don't give a shit how often Jamaal gets stopped. Hes a scoring threat every down, whether youre at your one yard line or theirs.

YOU FEED RUNNING BACKS THE FOOTBALL. 25 carries. You give Jamaal 25 carries and they stop him every time, they earned it. AND you can say you did everything you could do as a playcaller to try to win the game. When you ignore your best player AND lose the game, you look like a fucking idiot.

Childress should be calling plays. Fuck Reid.

[Dartgod]

If we knew before the game that Jamaal would only get 9 carries, this place would've imploded and everyone would know already that we'd lose the football game.

IF?

Oh, we knew it.

[nychief]

Dorsey failed to build an oline, that's what ruined our season.

[Wallcrawler]

http://www.kcconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Andy-Reid-meme.jpg

http://imgur.com/AOhEP.jpg

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/aiwvyrn3i0ervvfrb5pb.jpg

http://img.pandawhale.com/136337-Andy-Reid-meme-Jamaal-Charles-s9go.jpeg

[GloryDayz]

My guess it will be "its fixable"...

By 2/31/2015 (LOL!!!!!), the Chiefs will be ready to kickass in the 2014/2015 NFL season! And by 2/31/2016 (LOL!!!!!), Andy will have them ready for the 2015/2016 NFL season.

These guys are always learning......and ready to go right after it's all over!

[ChiTown]

"HELLO!!!!!!!!!!, the Chiefs scored 4 field goals. FOUR!!!!! That's some crazy good offense!!!!"

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--9pT2nxI4--/18f4tcl1ympjtjpg.jpg

[Jimmya]

Trade Reid for Harbough straight up!

[hitchief]

I been on football reference and been checking out Alex Smith's production to WR's over his career. So, i would say, nope. Alex just sucks! Like i said, he's had 1 1000 yard WR in his career and thats the superbowl season in 2012 and he didnt even play in half the games.

Sure we all get that Alex is the reason we are losing all these games. Such a weak and stupid easy way to look at this teams failure.

Why don't you list all of his great wr's over the years. And you cant even add Crabtree cause the dude was always hurt.

We all get that Alex needs to play better but come on now everybody watches enough football to know that if you don't have even a decent oline, you will not succeed in the NFL. Just look at the Pats game this year or last years super bowl - both great qb's looked like garbage due to lack of oline protection.

[ILChief]

My guess it will be "its fixable"...

Nope but they will learn from it

[Deberg_1990]

This thread didn’t age well....

[Bugeater]

Oh FFS it's a 6 year old thread

[Megatron96]

There's more than a dozen such threads. Kinda comical now in retrospect. Some of the posts are pure gold. Pretty sure we did a rehash of some of them a few months ago.

[Mephistopheles Janx]

aged like milk

[kcclone]

Not gonna lie.... I was thinking the same thing when we were down 24 nothing in the Texans playoffs game.

[Kiimo]

Not gonna lie.... I was thinking the same thing when we were down 24 nothing in the Texans playoffs game.


Hope you feel like a moron

[TribalElder]

Checked the poster list in this thread to see if I left a dumbass take back in the day

*nope*

Nice

ROFL

[ChiefBlueCFC]

These were shit takes 6 years ago too

[Reerun_KC]

Have to say, back in the day, Reid and Smiths ability NOT to get a WR TD in one full season is still legendary...

Great thread though...

You guys should bump some of my Herm threads if you want some quality entertainment.. I used to wreck that guy and his supporters daily...

[Pitt Gorilla]

Chief Fans are really ****ing stupid. News at 11.

[Reerun_KC]

Chief Fans are really ****ing stupid. News at 11.

Says a Chiefs fan?

[KChiefs1]

Reerun, you area fucking idiot.

Some of us told you when he was hired that this is what Reid is.

Others have placed more than the fair share of blame on Reid over the course of the his nearly 2 seasons.

Don't act like you're here with some kind of newsflash.


Classic milkman.

[Hammock Parties]

Alex pulled the wool over people's eyes for a long time.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It's shocking, to me, that a morbidly obese fat ass doesn't field a more disciplined football team.

You know how I know you're dumb?

[Pitt Gorilla]

And I'll add that when Hunt/Dorsey/Reid lost what they lost last year and brought-in nothing effective to replace those gaps, we all knew we were looking at a crisis being managed by a group of goons.

Two of those goons have Super Bowl rings. How about your dumb ass?

[Reerun_KC]

Two of those goons have Super Bowl rings. How about your dumb ass?
GloryDayz has the same amount of rings as you. So are you a dumbass also?

[Pitt Gorilla]

GloryDayz has the same amount of rings as you. So are you a dumbass also?
Him not having a ring isn't what made him a dumbass, dumbass.

[Reerun_KC]

Him not having a ring isn't what made him a dumbass, dumbass.

Lame. And unoriginal. Do better.

[htismaqe]

Seriously?

The Chiefs are defending Super Bowl Champions.

Do we have so little to talk about that we have to necro 4-year old threads and rub people's noses in them?

Come on guys, hug it out. :grouphug:

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Seriously?

The Chiefs are defending Super Bowl Champions.

Do we have so little to talk about that we have to necro 4-year old threads and rub people's noses in them?

Come on guys, hug it out. :grouphug:

We just need to lose a game so people can start bringing up how Reid sucks ass and it’s time to it the whole o line

[cdcox]

I own my take in this thread.

Do you believe in sideways passing?

Guess what, we aren’t running a sideways offense any longer. We weren’t going to be successful with that approach. Glad that Reid did his job and found a QB that could run a proper downfield offense.

[Hammock Parties]

i almost miss the alex wars

we have nothing to fight over here anymore

that explains DC LMAO

[KCrockaholic]

i almost miss the alex wars

we have nothing to fight over here anymore

that explains DC LMAO

This.

[Chiefspants]

i almost miss the alex wars

we have nothing to fight over here anymore

that explains DC LMAO

Yeah, what would a Tiger or a Knowmo even say these days?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Yeah, what would a Tiger or a Knowmo even say these days?

Gostkowski was Denvers best player on monday night

[RealSNR]

i almost miss the alex wars

we have nothing to fight over here anymore

that explains DC LMAO

"You fought in the Alex Wars?"

"Yes... I was once a Drafturbator the same as your father"

[Dayze]

god I couldn't stand Tiger.
not she if he/she/it was a mult or not. but thank god it's gone. Made this place almost intolerable in the Lounge.

on the same level as bad and dirt dumb as some of the DC regulars (Adolf, Cosmo, Lone etc). but at least those parasites stay in DC and don't come out to the Lounge.


Clay is right though; back then, there was so much to argue about football-wise in the Lounge. There was ALWAYS something that was inept with this team. Dark times man.

[RealSNR]

god I couldn't stand Tiger.
not she if he/she/it was a mult or not. but thank god it's gone. Made this place almost intolerable in the Lounge.

on the same level as bad and dirt dumb as some of the DC regulars (Adolf, Cosmo, Lone etc). but at least those parasites stay in DC and don't come out to the Lounge.


Clay is right though; back then, there was so much to argue about football-wise in the Lounge. There was ALWAYS something that was inept with this team. Dark times man.
The disappointing thing was he and JENKINSWINS and people like him left not with an implosion but a small whimper.

Mahomes basically played his first Chargers game... and then they were gone. Hell, I think Tiger was gone when we traded Alex's ass out of here.

[htismaqe]

The disappointing thing was he and JENKINSWINS and people like him left not with an implosion but a small whimper.

Mahomes basically played his first Chargers game... and then they were gone. Hell, I think Tiger was gone when we traded Alex's ass out of here.

What was that one dude? Mac or Mav or something that kept insisting he was turning into a Chiefs fan and wouldn't leave even when Alex did?

How about Sandy Vagina. ROFL

[htismaqe]

Nevermind, Mav is still here.

And he's STILL defending Alex Smith. ROFL

[RealSNR]

Nevermind, Mav is still here.

And he's STILL defending Alex Smith. ROFL

"Alex is what he is"

I always hated that statement. No shit, Sherlock. Mahomes is what he is, too. It's just that Mahomes is freaking awesome and Alex is... eh, just sort of fine I guess.

[AdolfOliverBush]

god I couldn't stand Tiger.
not she if he/she/it was a mult or not. but thank god it's gone. Made this place almost intolerable in the Lounge.

on the same level as bad and dirt dumb as some of the DC regulars (Adolf, Cosmo, Lone etc). but at least those parasites stay in DC and don't come out to the Lounge.


Clay is right though; back then, there was so much to argue about football-wise in the Lounge. There was ALWAYS something that was inept with this team. Dark times man.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=182&pictureid=1993

[wazu]

Love looking at these old threads. Zero judgement for the takes involved. This fan base went through decades of hell, so it's all water under under the bridge now. Was there anybody that really hated on the pick of Mahomes? I know he never really gave any fodder for people to crap on him as a rookie or first year starter. Feels like CP overwhelmingly rejoiced when the Chiefs picked him, but surely there had to be one or two dissenting voices.

[Chiefspants]

The disappointing thing was he and JENKINSWINS and people like him left not with an implosion but a small whimper.

Mahomes basically played his first Chargers game... and then they were gone. Hell, I think Tiger was gone when we traded Alex's ass out of here.

Jenkins (who I always thought was Tiger) returned after Mahomes injury last year about about 24 hours ("SEE HOW MUCH BETTER THE TEAM DID WITH MOORE")

[Lzen]

Nevermind, Mav is still here.

And he's STILL defending Alex Smith. ROFL

ROFL

[DJ's left nut]

Jenkins (who I always thought was Tiger) returned after Mahomes injury last year about about 24 hours ("SEE HOW MUCH BETTER THE TEAM DID WITH MOORE")

I had a guy sitting behind me at the Vikings or Packers game actually say "so do we stick with Moore when Mahomes is back?"

I just didn't have a way to respond to it. Dude was dead serious. Like...what do you even say to a stranger who says something to you that is that galactically stupid?

I mean it's not like it happened in his 1st year as a starter when maybe he just had a nice 3 or 4 weeks when the league didn't know how to handle him. He was the reigning NFL MVP. And this fanbase had so convinced itself that QB was an afterthought that people who paid good money to watch this game thought 'eh, just bench him...'

It was a mindset. It appears that most people have been broken of it, but there's always gonna be a few flat-earthers out there.

[Lzen]

Jenkins (who I always thought was Tiger) returned after Mahomes injury last year about about 24 hours ("SEE HOW MUCH BETTER THE TEAM DID WITH MOORE")

What a loser. smh

[Lzen]

Who is Tiger? What is the full handle?

[Lzen]

I had a guy sitting behind me at the Vikings or Packers game actually say "so do we stick with Moore when Mahomes is back?"

I just didn't have a way to respond to it. Dude was dead serious. Like...what do you even say to a stranger who says something to you that is that galactically stupid?

I mean it's not like it happened in his 1st year as a starter when maybe he just had a nice 3 or 4 weeks when the league didn't know how to handle him. He was the reigning NFL MVP. And this fanbase had so convinced itself that QB was an afterthought that people who paid good money to watch this game thought 'eh, just bench him...'

It was a mindset. It appears that most people have been broken of it, but there's always gonna be a few flat-earthers out there.

What do you say? You say "did a squirrel eat your brain?"

[RealSNR]

Love looking at these old threads. Zero judgement for the takes involved. This fan base went through decades of hell, so it's all water under under the bridge now. Was there anybody that really hated on the pick of Mahomes? I know he never really gave any fodder for people to crap on him as a rookie or first year starter. Feels like CP overwhelmingly rejoiced when the Chiefs picked him, but surely there had to be one or two dissenting voices.

Weeeelll.... funny you should mention that.... :evil:

I just can't believe this place is so gung ho about borderline 1st round prospects after the Geno debacle.

Let alone a god damn Texas Tech QB.

[DJ's left nut]

Weeeelll.... funny you should mention that.... :evil:

Yeah, Clay was an absolute dipshit over that 2018 class. And spent an entire draft season shitting on Mahomes because of it.

It was worse than his Herm love-fest.

Kid's teflon, I'll give him that. He just pivots after eating shit, goes whole hog on the other side of the argument and pretends like the months (years) he spent saying the exact opposite thing just didn't happen.

Dude's a master gaslighter, that's for sure.

[Eleazar]

Meh. Plenty of people felt the same way. As much credit as Andy deserves for what he's done with Mahomes, he also hand-picked Alex Smith and decided to build a team around him. Reid's system obviously works really well but it's predicated on great QB play, not simply adequate. For that reason Smith seems like a really strange choice, especially in hindsight.

Having a great QB means that Andy's faults - time outs, clock management, challenges, play calling at the goal line or in crucial situations - are less likely to break you. High tide raises all boats.

The knocks on Reid were never really about anything other than his game management, this idea that he was a great coach 6 days a week. He seems to have gotten a lot better in that regard, but hey. Having the best QB of his generation is quite a luxury.

Does that mean we're seeing who Reid really was, or that Mahomes is making him look better now but he's the same guy?

Who knows, who cares. We won the 'bowl and now we're running it back.

[RealSNR]

I had a guy sitting behind me at the Vikings or Packers game actually say "so do we stick with Moore when Mahomes is back?"

I just didn't have a way to respond to it. Dude was dead serious. Like...what do you even say to a stranger who says something to you that is that galactically stupid?

I mean it's not like it happened in his 1st year as a starter when maybe he just had a nice 3 or 4 weeks when the league didn't know how to handle him. He was the reigning NFL MVP. And this fanbase had so convinced itself that QB was an afterthought that people who paid good money to watch this game thought 'eh, just bench him...'

It was a mindset. It appears that most people have been broken of it, but there's always gonna be a few flat-earthers out there.
I'm going to give that stranger the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant that Mahomes might be able to return to playing, but would he be truly healthy? Is the knee truly healthy? What about that ankle of his that got Cam Erving'd? Maybe we should keep him benched until it's fully healed? It could lead to further injury if we rush him back too early, etc.

That's still a monumentally stupid take, but at least it comes from a place of caring and concern for the long term future, not total 100% unchecked idiocy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.

He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.

He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.

He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it

He fired his GM

And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.


He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.

[Eleazar]

I'm going to give that stranger the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant that Mahomes might be able to return to playing, but would he be truly healthy? Is the knee truly healthy? What about that ankle of his that got Cam Erving'd? Maybe we should keep him benched until it's fully healed? It could lead to further injury if we rush him back too early, etc.

That's still a monumentally stupid take, but at least it comes from a place of caring and concern for the long term future, not total 100% unchecked idiocy.

There was some reporting at the time that you can't come back from a patella dislocation without having surgery to fix it. I felt at the time that given his value, if there was any chance of permanently damaging the knee we should shut him down and bubble wrap him until he was totally healthy. Obviously that wasn't the case.

[RealSNR]

There was some reporting at the time that you can't come back from a patella dislocation without having surgery to fix it. I felt at the time that given his value, if there was any chance of permanently damaging the knee we should shut him down and bubble wrap him until he was totally healthy. Obviously that wasn't the case.

I thought that way, too, but the stranger was saying, "When Mahomes comes back..."

If team doctors say he can play through an injury without extreme risk, then he's ready to go. That's all there is to it. If the injury is still bad, they're going to keep him shut down, in which case we wouldn't have close to any kind of QB controversy-- it would continue to be Moore's job until the doctors told the coaches that Mahomes was ready.

[DJ's left nut]

Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.

He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.

He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.

He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it

He fired his GM

And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.


He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.

No he isn't. No he didn't.

This is a guy who had McNabb and Vick under center. A guy who had Kolb. For YEARS he was willing to work with high variance passers. He did a ton of downfield stuff w/ Vick when he had a guy that could make the throws.

Reid didn't learn shit - y'all just didn't want to give him credit for what he knew. You've been shown time and time again how often your 'why is he milking the clock' nonsense was just made up. I've given you drive charts showing how it's just complete bullshit and you'll just keep repeating it.

You've been wrong about the guy for years and you just keep doubling down on it.

You're just fucking wrong. You've always been wrong. But keep on acting like a dude with a 20 year track record of NFL success just learned how to win overnight.

[ModSocks]

Haha yeah ya'll motherfuckers were being dumb back then. I still remember it. Not me though.

Dumbasses.

[Eleazar]

I thought that way, too, but the stranger was saying, "When Mahomes comes back..."

If team doctors say he can play through an injury without extreme risk, then he's ready to go. That's all there is to it. If the injury is still bad, they're going to keep him shut down, in which case we wouldn't have close to any kind of QB controversy-- it would continue to be Moore's job until the doctors told the coaches that Mahomes was ready.

Yeah, I think we had a history at one time of rushing people back to their detriment like with Justin Houston, but I would agree that it seems like you hear the dumbest Chiefs takes you'll ever hear in the seats at the stadium.

[chiefzilla1501]

No he isn't. No he didn't.

This is a guy who had McNabb and Vick under center. A guy who had Kolb. For YEARS he was willing to work with high variance passers. He did a ton of downfield stuff w/ Vick when he had a guy that could make the throws.

Reid didn't learn shit - y'all just didn't want to give him credit for what he knew. You've been shown time and time again how often your 'why is he milking the clock' nonsense was just made up. I've given you drive charts showing how it's just complete bullshit and you'll just keep repeating it.

You've been wrong about the guy for years and you just keep doubling down on it.

You're just ****ing wrong. You've always been wrong. But keep on acting like a dude with a 20 year track record of NFL success just learned how to win overnight.

Whoa, easy there. Im not an Andy Reid critic. I am giving him credit for making bold moves. Some of those bold moves he may not have made with the eagles.

[DJ's left nut]

Whoa, easy there. Im not an Andy Reid critic. I am giving him credit for making bold moves. Some of those bold moves he may not have made with the eagles.

You absolutely WERE an Andy Reid critic and one of his loudest ones.

And you were making the same nonsensical arguments then that you're trying to make now. You're assigning 'flaws' to the guy he just didn't have.

It's a tough damn league to win in and this guy has done it constantly. And when he has weapons on par with other championship teams (as opposed to trying to make mediocre guys like McNabb and Smith look better than they are), he's gone to 2 conference championship games and should've won 'em both.

The dude was never who you thought he was and trying to retcon his record doesn't change that.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, Clay was an absolute dipshit over that 2018 class. And spent an entire draft season shitting on Mahomes because of it.

It was worse than his Herm love-fest.

Kid's teflon, I'll give him that. He just pivots after eating shit, goes whole hog on the other side of the argument and pretends like the months (years) he spent saying the exact opposite thing just didn't happen.

Dude's a master gaslighter, that's for sure.

So I sucked at evaluating Mahomes. I'm not alone there. I was gun shy after getting burned by Geno. Who cares?

I got on board the instant he was drafted, so you can kiss my pasty white rump.

And unlike SOME PEOPLE here, I've never been anything but in Andy Reid's corner, 100%.

Zilla is still spouting nonsense.

[Eleazar]

Whoa, easy there. Im not an Andy Reid critic. I am giving him credit for making bold moves. Some of those bold moves he may not have made with the eagles.

One way we have seen Reid change before our eyes is in terms of not being content to sit on leads. He's definitely changed in that regard. Having a QB who can do it certainly helped push him in that direction.

[Hammock Parties]

"You fought in the Alex Wars?"

"Yes... I was once a Drafturbator the same as your father"

He was the best shitposter in the galaxy...and a cunning troll.

I understand you've become quite a good shitposter yourself.

And he had some good threads.

[DJ's left nut]

So I sucked at evaluating Mahomes. I'm not alone there. I was gun shy after getting burned by Geno. Who cares?

I got on board the instant he was drafted, so you can kiss my pasty white rump.

And unlike SOME PEOPLE here, I've never been anything but in Andy Reid's corner, 100%.

Zilla is still spouting nonsense.

What I couldn't understand was your love for the '18 class. How, after getting burned by Geno, were you so convinced that '18 was the year to go for it?

It wasn't your reticence over Mahomes - it was your reasoning for it. Like I said, I don't think you even hated Mahomes. I think you overplayed your hand because you felt that strongly about the talent in the '18 class.

And it just never made any sense to me. Especially when you started to dissect the likelihood of the Chiefs getting their hands on any of those sure-fire blue-chippers you were sure were coming the following season.

Darnold was your love-child and if he was ANYTHING like the guy you thought he was, he'd have never been available. You just let backwards thinking cloud your judgment on Mahomes.

[scho63]

The impatience of CP posters shines through again.....

[DJ's left nut]

One way we have seen Reid change before our eyes is in terms of not being content to sit on leads. He's definitely changed in that regard. Having a QB who can do it certainly helped push him in that direction.

Again - I've gone over this a dozen times. The idea that Reid is content to sit on leads was silly then, it's silly now. It's born of failed execution from limited quarterbacks. It's Smith missing downfield throws in the 3rd quarter or Orson Charles dropping balls.

Meanwhile I'm not convinced Mahomes threw for a single yard in the 4th quarter of last weeks game.

He's the same guy he's always been. No, he's not as aggressive as he generally is w/ 2 and 3 score leads because he simply doesn't like to put shit on tape. That's a no-brainer but for some reason it's something people blast him for.

This isn't Madden, fellas. The AI won't forget what you did the following week. Reid's still relatively aggressive later in games fairly often, but he does it in a white-bread manner that's just not as successful because he doesn't want to show his cards in a game that's largely decided.

Nor should he. Those wild-ass comebacks and trick plays that found gold late in the season last year were possible precisely because he wasn't out there showing coaches what he could do when the opponent needed to put up 17 in the last 11 minutes to tie.

Because the guy's FAR smarter than his critics.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Again - I've gone over this a dozen times. The idea that Reid is content to sit on leads was silly then, it's silly now. It's born of failed execution from limited quarterbacks. It's Smith missing downfield throws in the 3rd quarter or Orson Charles dropping balls.

Meanwhile I'm not convinced Mahomes threw for a single yard in the 4th quarter of last weeks game.

He's the same guy he's always been. No, he's not as aggressive as he generally is w/ 2 and 3 score leads because he simply doesn't like to put shit on tape. That's a no-brainer but for some reason it's something people blast him for.

This isn't Madden, fellas. The AI won't forget what you did the following week. Reid's still relatively aggressive later in games fairly often, but he does it in a white-bread manner that's just not as successful because he doesn't want to show his cards in a game that's largely decided.

Nor should he. Those wild-ass comebacks and trick plays that found gold late in the season last year were possible precisely because he wasn't out there showing coaches what he could do when the opponent needed to put up 17 in the last 11 minutes to tie.

Because the guy's FAR smarter than his critics.

Oh you mean like the Ravens fucking do?

[Hammock Parties]

Darnold was your love-child and if he was ANYTHING like the guy you thought he was, he'd have never been available. You just let backwards thinking cloud your judgment on Mahomes.

Because I went full retard on pocket passers.

Given NFL history, the likelihood of one of them panning out was greater than a once-in-a-generation unicorn coming along.

Can you really blame me?

[chiefzilla1501]

You absolutely WERE an Andy Reid critic and one of his loudest ones.

And you were making the same nonsensical arguments then that you're trying to make now. You're assigning 'flaws' to the guy he just didn't have.

It's a tough damn league to win in and this guy has done it constantly. And when he has weapons on par with other championship teams (as opposed to trying to make mediocre guys like McNabb and Smith look better than they are), he's gone to 2 conference championship games and should've won 'em both.

The dude was never who you thought he was and trying to retcon his record doesn't change that.

You're on crack dude. I've defended Reid at most turns. Game management mistakes, Alex Smith, Sutton... I never got into that fray. Like everyone else I saw him as a brilliant HOF coach with some flaws that got in his own way. Like everyone else I felt his brilliance could bring us to a Super Bowl but had some serious anxiety that we'd step on our own feet when we got close. I have been nothing but praiseworthy of him except for one aspect, which is his ultra conservative approach to closing games out. Honestly just floored because I respect the hell out of Andy Reid and always have, so I actually take offense that you'd call me a hater.

[ModSocks]

Because I went full retard on pocket passers.

Given NFL history, the likelihood of one of them panning out was greater than a once-in-a-generation unicorn coming along.

Can you really blame me?

Thankfully no one gives a damn about your football takes. You're right there with CoMo.

You were the JakeF before JakeF was JakeF.

[DJ's left nut]

You're on crack dude. I've defended Reid at most turns. Game management mistakes, Alex Smith, Sutton... I never got into that fray. Like everyone else I saw him as a brilliant HOF coach with some flaws that got in his own way. Like everyone else I felt his brilliance could bring us to a Super Bowl but had some serious anxiety that we'd step on our own feet when we got close. I have been nothing but praiseworthy of him except for one aspect, which is his ultra conservative approach to closing games out. Honestly just floored because I respect the hell out of Andy Reid and always have, so I actually take offense that you'd call me a hater.

Because this is bullshit right here:

Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.

He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.

He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.

He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it

He fired his GM

And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.


He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.

This is the kind of nonsensical backwards argument that comes from someone that just can't admit he was wrong.

No, Reid most assuredly did not 'scrap his WCO' - he's built on it but otherwise uses the same WCO and terminology he's used his whole career. All he's done is bring back some of the spread stuff he was using with Vick because he has a guy with the arm to execute it.

No, Reid going after a young QB was not 'teaching an old dog new tricks' after the guy staked his entire career on drafting McNabb when that was most assuredly not a popular stance. The he turfed McNabb for Vick, who was the very definition of high-risk.

He'd fired his GM before - or at least made a power play and took his job in Philly.

And again, I've gone play for play with you on this ridiculous lead nonsense.

No, this isn't 'new Reid' or any sort of revelation. You just missed the forest for the trees (and that's presuming there were even trees to begin with; I won't give you that).

Don't sit there and pretend like you had him pegged but he turned over a new leaf. You were just wrong. You've always been wrong.

[ModSocks]

Again - I've gone over this a dozen times. The idea that Reid is content to sit on leads was silly then, it's silly now. It's born of failed execution from limited quarterbacks. It's Smith missing downfield throws in the 3rd quarter or Orson Charles dropping balls.


Yess'm.

Like you said, these guys were assigning faults where they didn't exist.

I'll never forget the gripes people had about Reid always choosing to defer kickoffs, like he was an idiot for doing it. The real idiots were the guys who didn't understand what Reid was doing.

Hell, BB was doing that before Reid put it in vogue. Now half the damn league seemingly defers.

[Sassy Squatch]

LMAO Why are we dragging up old hot takes?

[ModSocks]

Same goes for the time management shit, btw.

Time management wasn't so much the issue. Rather, it was players executing the time management plan.

[ModSocks]

LMAO Why are we dragging up old hot takes?

It's a Thursday that feels like a Friday and the Bengals play the Browns tonight?

[Deberg_1990]

LMAO Why are we dragging up old hot takes?

Because it’s fun to look at old bad hot takes.

We have all had horrible hot takes at one time or another over the years.

[Sassy Squatch]

It's a Thursday that feels like a Friday and the Bengals play the Browns tonight?
Good enough for me. It's just been busier than usual with multiple threads being bumped for humiliation. Pretty funny.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO Why are we dragging up old hot takes?

We ground our ax down to the nub.

[DJ's left nut]

LMAO Why are we dragging up old hot takes?

Nothing left to argue about and I can only beat off to game film so often. It isn’t that I get bored by it but rather that I’m 39 yrs old and it takes time to mix another batch.

So here we are...

[Deberg_1990]

Again - I've gone over this a dozen times. The idea that Reid is content to sit on leads was silly then, it's silly now. It's born of failed execution from limited quarterbacks. It's Smith missing downfield throws in the 3rd quarter or Orson Charles dropping balls.

Meanwhile I'm not convinced Mahomes threw for a single yard in the 4th quarter of last weeks game.

He's the same guy he's always been. No, he's not as aggressive as he generally is w/ 2 and 3 score leads because he simply doesn't like to put shit on tape. That's a no-brainer but for some reason it's something people blast him for.

This isn't Madden, fellas. The AI won't forget what you did the following week. Reid's still relatively aggressive later in games fairly often, but he does it in a white-bread manner that's just not as successful because he doesn't want to show his cards in a game that's largely decided.

Nor should he. Those wild-ass comebacks and trick plays that found gold late in the season last year were possible precisely because he wasn't out there showing coaches what he could do when the opponent needed to put up 17 in the last 11 minutes to tie.

Because the guy's FAR smarter than his critics.

People never seem to appreciate the way Reid always maximizes limited talent. Nobody would have gotten the play he did from Alex Smith, Vick, Jeff Garcia and other career backup types.

[DJ's left nut]

People never seem to appreciate the way Reid always maximizes limited talent. Nobody would have gotten the play he did from Alex Smith, Vick, Jeff Garcia and other career backup types.

It was used AGAINST him.

‘Reid can’t win the big one...’

Folks, he never should’ve been IN the big one. The things he was able to do with average QB talent were feathers in his cap, not cause for criticism.

[Deberg_1990]

It was used AGAINST him.

‘Reid can’t win the big one...’

Folks, he never should’ve been IN the big one. The things he was able to do with average QB talent we’re feathers in his cap, not cause for criticism.

Exactly. Bingo!

[Reerun_KC]

Maybe we should bump some old Herm Threads from the Goldern Era of CP?

That would be fun to relive... Well not really, but....

[Hammock Parties]

Nothing left to argue about and I can only beat off to game film so often. It isn’t that I get bored by it but rather that I’m 39 yrs old and it takes time to mix another batch.

So here we are...

LMAO

This is EXACTLY what being a Dallas Cowboys fan was like after 1992.

I saw every game those teams played. BORING.

[ChiefsCountry]

No he isn't. No he didn't.

This is a guy who had McNabb and Vick under center. A guy who had Kolb. For YEARS he was willing to work with high variance passers. He did a ton of downfield stuff w/ Vick when he had a guy that could make the throws.

Reid didn't learn shit - y'all just didn't want to give him credit for what he knew. You've been shown time and time again how often your 'why is he milking the clock' nonsense was just made up. I've given you drive charts showing how it's just complete bullshit and you'll just keep repeating it.

You've been wrong about the guy for years and you just keep doubling down on it.

You're just ****ing wrong. You've always been wrong. But keep on acting like a dude with a 20 year track record of NFL success just learned how to win overnight.

Zilla is an idiot. Always wrong in both football and political takes.

[chiefzilla1501]

Because this is bullshit right here:



This is the kind of nonsensical backwards argument that comes from someone that just can't admit he was wrong.

No, Reid most assuredly did not 'scrap his WCO' - he's built on it but otherwise uses the same WCO and terminology he's used his whole career. All he's done is bring back some of the spread stuff he was using with Vick because he has a guy with the arm to execute it.

No, Reid going after a young QB was not 'teaching an old dog new tricks' after the guy staked his entire career on drafting McNabb when that was most assuredly not a popular stance. The he turfed McNabb for Vick, who was the very definition of high-risk.

He'd fired his GM before - or at least made a power play and took his job in Philly.

And again, I've gone play for play with you on this ridiculous lead nonsense.

No, this isn't 'new Reid' or any sort of revelation. You just missed the forest for the trees (and that's presuming there were even trees to begin with; I won't give you that).

Don't sit there and pretend like you had him pegged but he turned over a new leaf. You were just wrong. You've always been wrong.

You're reading way too much into one post. I did not intend to say he was too stubborn to do all those things on the list. It is part about an old dog willing to adapt, part about moves many did not expect him to make (moving quickly to replace Alex Smith, replacing Sutton). And yes, I think mahomes helped Andy get better in areas where he historically has not been great like second half situational playcalling. Other than the last part, I can assure you I was way less critical and actually barely critical to Andy than many here. But feel free to show me otherwise. So I have no idea where this narrative that I'm some kind of a hater comes from.

No, I don't think these changes prove any critics or haters right. Most like me felt he was a brilliant coach who just needed a little boost to get over the top. Credit it to brilliantly adapting to the game or credit it to fixing shortcomings... Either way he is a different and better coach than when he first started.

[ModSocks]

You're reading way too much into one post. I did not intend to say he was too stubborn to do all those things on the list. It is part about an old dog willing to adapt, part about moves many did not expect him to make (moving quickly to replace Alex Smith, replacing Sutton). And yes, I think mahomes helped Andy get better in areas where he historically has not been great like second half situational playcalling. Other than the last part, I can assure you I was way less critical and actually barely critical to Andy than many here. But feel free to show me otherwise. So I have no idea where this narrative that I'm some kind of a hater comes from.

No, I don't think these changes prove any critics or haters right. Most like me felt he was a brilliant coach who just needed a little boost to get over the top. Credit it to brilliantly adapting to the game or credit it to fixing shortcomings... Either way he is a different and better coach than when he first started.

You don't get it.

[RealSNR]

Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.

He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.

He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.

He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it

He fired his GM

And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.


He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.

DJ already addressed all of these points, but let me just add on. Andy Reid has been a head coach for 20+ seasons, and you have to be CONSTANTLY changing and adapting and trying new things if you want to last as long as he has in the pros. Hell, just look at Belichick-- it's the exact same story. He's the same coach who set single season offensive records while also fielding some ugly ass pedestrian offensive attacks. One scheme was about throwing bombs to Randy Moss, while the other is about dumping off to James White and letting your dainty old fart QB throw a tantrum about his weapons on the field. He didn't "scrap" the Erhardt-Perkins at all. He acquired new personnel, and he and his offensive coaches schemed up effective plays based on the firepower he had based on what was in his playbook, evolving and adding new stuff to it.

"We" didn't teach Andy jack shit. The last couple of seasons have simply been a continuation of what he has done for 20+ years in this league. He's fired GMs in Philly before. He fired two different defensive coordinators, too-- one of those coaches (Sean McDermott) wasn't even that bad! He loved Donovan McNabb like his own damn son in Philly, and when he thought he had something in Kevin Kolb of all QBs, he traded him to a freaking division rival. And even the Patrick Mahomes plan wasn't a case of Andy learning or figuring something out. It wasn't like he went, "Oh... I get it now! I need to not roll with safe efficient game managers!" He already knew what could be possible because he coached Brett Favre years ago.

Sure, you may have been faithful to him and defended him for years, but it's totally inaccurate the idea that Andy was some bumbling stubborn ex-Holmgren/WCO stooge for 14 years in Philly until the voice of God came to him as a dove in KC one day and sang into his right ear the path to coaching immortality. He's not an old dog who was taught new tricks. He's just an old dog. Period. And how do you get to be an old dog in the NFL? By CONSTANTLY fixing things, adjusting according to the personnel you have on the field, and trying to find and exploit conventional wisdom around the league with new concepts and trends.

[chiefzilla1501]

DJ already addressed all of these points, but let me just add on. Andy Reid has been a head coach for 20+ seasons, and you have to be CONSTANTLY changing and adapting and trying new things if you want to last as long as he has in the pros. Hell, just look at Belichick-- it's the exact same story. He's the same coach who set single season offensive records while also fielding some ugly ass pedestrian offensive attacks. One scheme was about throwing bombs to Randy Moss, while the other is about dumping off to James White and letting your dainty old fart QB throw a tantrum about his weapons on the field. He didn't "scrap" the Erhardt-Perkins at all. He acquired new personnel, and he and his offensive coaches schemed up effective plays based on the firepower he had.

"We" didn't teach Andy jack shit. The last couple of seasons have simply been a continuation of what he has done for 20+ years in this league. He's fired GMs in Philly before. He fired two different defensive coordinators, too-- one of those coaches (Sean McDermott) wasn't even that bad! He loved Donovan McNabb like his own damn son in Philly, and when he thought he had something in Kevin Kolb of all QBs, he traded him to a freaking division rival. And even the Patrick Mahomes plan wasn't a case of Andy learning or figuring something out. It wasn't like he went, "Oh... I get it now! I need to not roll with safe efficient game managers!" He already knew what could be possible because he coached Brett Favre years ago.

Sure, you may have been faithful to him and defended him for years, but it's totally inaccurate the idea that Andy was some bumbling stubborn ex-Holmgren/WCO stooge for 14 years in Philly until the voice of God came to him as a dove in KC one day and sang into his right ear the path to coaching immortality. He's not an old dog who was taught new tricks. He's just an old dog. Period. And how do you get to be an old dog in the NFL? By CONSTANTLY fixing things, adjusting according to the personnel you have on the field, and trying to find and exploit conventional wisdom around the league with new concepts and trends.

Sorry, used a catchphrase. Didn't mean for it to be taken literally. Yes, he wasn't taught these things. He wasn't forced to do these things. But he deserves credit for adapting. I think most would say he's adapted way more aggressively than expected and arguably a lot has to do with his burning desire to win a super bowl.The one area I believe he really changed himself, again, is late game management. I believe he trusts mahomes way more than he ever has any other qb. But even that wasn't always the case.

[WhiteWhale]

Andy Reid won a championship because we taught an old dog new tricks.

He scrapped his WCO and embraced something innovative.

He went after the young upside qb even though he had a stable one.

He fired his DC even though it broke his heart to do it

He fired his GM

And if you watch the mic'd up in the playoffs, he kept yelling more more more where for most of the career he would protect clock with a lead.


He is a much different coach than what we had a few years ago. Kudos to a vet willing to try new things.

Yup.

He suddenly became a better coach at the start of the 2018 season.

It's just a coincidence that mahomes is a star.

Do you really believe this? What's more likely .. that Reid suddenly corrected all of his flaws the same year mahomes took over OR that Reid had actually overachieved with mediocre QBs his whole career and thrived while coaching a great one?

I feel occam's razor applies here.

Andy has always adjusted his scheme to fit the QB. He called games differently with McNabb than he did vick. Same for a jeff Garcia, alex smith, and patrick mahomes.

Andy didn't suddenly change.

[DJ's left nut]

Sorry, used a catchphrase. Didn't mean for it to be taken literally. Yes, he wasn't taught these things. He wasn't forced to do these things. But he deserves credit for adapting. I think most would say he's adapted way more aggressively than expected and arguably a lot has to do with his burning desire to win a super bowl.The one area I believe he really changed himself, again, is late game management. I believe he trusts mahomes way more than he ever has any other qb. But even that wasn't always the case.

The Chiefs threw the ball for 3 yards in the 4th quarter.

If Watson doesn't throw a pick and Watts doesn't return an onside kick inside the red zone, the Chiefs win 24 to 17 and you're bitching about Andy making it unnecessarily close again.

He's. Changed. Nothing.

He simply has guys that execute better.

Your late game management gripes were unfounded 4 years ago and your 'credit' to Reid is just nonsensical now. He's the same guy - you just didn't realize that your concerns were garbage back when you had them so you don't understand that nothings different now.

[DJ's left nut]

Yup.

He suddenly became a better coach at the start of the 2018 season.

It's just a coincidence that mahomes is a star.

Do you really believe this? What's more likely .. that Reid suddenly corrected all of his flaws the same year mahomes took over OR that Reid had actually overachieved with mediocre QBs his whole career?

I feel occam's razor applies here.

He's doubling down on complaints he made a half decade ago instead of just acknowledging that he was wrong about the man. And he's trying to couch it in the guise of an 'attaboy' as though its any less stupid.

[DJ's left nut]

He's literally been fucking this chicken for years.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13747943&postcount=1321

You will NEVER convince him otherwise. Somehow things have 'changed' rather than him just not understanding what the hell is going on.

That whole thread is a few guys trying to make the same old tired complaints and ignoring every bit of situational decision-making put in front of them. They ignore every time Andy TRIED to go downfield and execution blew it. Or every time he drew up a pass on 3rd down and a guy dropped it. Because he tried a run on 2nd and 6 that lost a couple yards and put them behind the sticks.

This thing has been stupid for so long and it just will not die. Now the same old parties try to argue that he's 'changed' somehow when he absolutely has not.

[WhiteWhale]

He's doubling down on complaints he made a half decade ago instead of just acknowledging that he was wrong about the man. And he's trying to couch it in the guise of an 'attaboy' as though its any less stupid.

I used to have a theory that McNabb, drafted by almost anyone else, is a bust. That Tim Couch and McNabb's careers would invert if they swapped landing spots in that draft.

While I've been up and down on Andy over the years, but I could never shake this belief that mcnabb kinda sucked. McNabb once ran out the clock on OT and tied. Then expressed that he didn't know a tie was possible. McNabb had already played in a tie game! I knew what Alex Smith was. I saw how he transformed Vick.

All mahomes did was prove my theory, which I wasnt even convinced of... that 'clock management" has more to do with qb than coach. I learned that when joe montana showed up in 93 and suddenly Marty's 2 minute offense was effective.

[WhiteWhale]

He's literally been ****ing this chicken for years.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13747943&postcount=1321

You will NEVER convince him otherwise. Somehow things have 'changed' rather than him just not understanding what the hell is going on.

That whole thread is a few guys trying to make the same old tired complaints and ignoring every bit of situational decision-making put in front of them. They ignore every time Andy TRIED to go downfield and execution blew it. Or every time he drew up a pass on 3rd down and a guy dropped it. Because he tried a run on 2nd and 6 that lost a couple yards and put them behind the sticks.

This thing has been stupid for so long and it just will not die. Now the same old parties try to argue that he's 'changed' somehow when he absolutely has not.

He hasn't changed, but Andy isnt static. Hes more refined. As anyone tends to be as they become wiser with experience.

But he didn't learn how to manage a clock. He just has a guy who can convert 3rd and 10+ at a staggering rate instead of a guy who eats a sack on every 3rd and 6.

[Lzen]

I used to have a theory that McNabb, drafted by almost anyone else, is a bust. That Tim Couch and McNabb's careers would invert if they swapped landing spots in that draft.

While I've been up and down on Andy over the years, but I could never shake this belief that mcnabb kinda sucked. McNabb once ran out the clock on OT and tied. Then expressed that he didn't know a tie was possible. McNabb had already played in a tie game! I knew what Alex Smith was. I saw how he transformed Vick.

All mahomes did was prove my theory, which I wasnt even convinced of... that 'clock management" has more to do with qb than coach. I learned that when joe montana showed up in 93 and suddenly Marty's 2 minute offense was effective.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your take but the offense was changed to WCO in 93 when Joe arrived. ;)

[Megatron96]

Not that I'm disagreeing with your take but the offense was changed to WCO in 93 when Joe arrived. ;)

Sorry, but it wasn't just the switch to the WCO. Montana forced a philosophical change as well.

I can still remember that game in the playoffs, when we were down late in the game and didn't convert a 3rd down. Marty immediately signaled for the punting team. Montana ran over and argued with Marty for about 5 seconds, after which Marty thew up his hands and basically said 'okay let's go for it.' Montana ran back onto the field and easily converted that 4th down, and the rest is history.

Marty never would've gone for that 4th down conversion with any other QB except for his total respect for Montana.

[DJ's left nut]

Sorry, but it wasn't just the switch to the WCO. Montana forced a philosophical change as well.

I can still remember that game in the playoffs, when we were down late in the game and didn't convert a 3rd down. Marty immediately signaled for the punting team. Montana ran over and argued with Marty for about 5 seconds, after which Marty thew up his hands and basically said 'okay let's go for it.' Montana ran back onto the field and easily converted that 4th down, and the rest is history.

Marty never would've gone for that 4th down conversion with any other QB except for his total respect for Montana.

The mile high miracle.

Montana has Davis I think starting his break (would've been open) when Davis slips and falls. Montana immediately processes what is happening, pulls the ball down and in one motion turns and throws an outlet to Keith Cash to pick up some vital yards, move the sticks and keep things going.

That was my awakening to how vital a QB is in late-game situations. So very few QBs have the presence to notice that stumble, pull the ball down, know where everyone on the field is and get him the ball. Alex either throws it anyway (though he MIGHT have gone ahead and thrown it out the back of the end zone) or he'd have tucked it and run up the middle, gaining a handful of yards and bleeding the clock white. And Alex wasn't even bad - he was just average.

But a great QB makes chicken salad and maintains a chance to win.

[chiefzilla1501]

He's doubling down on complaints he made a half decade ago instead of just acknowledging that he was wrong about the man. And he's trying to couch it in the guise of an 'attaboy' as though its any less stupid.

I'm still puzzled where this half decade ago stuff is coming from. Or where in the world I would come off as some known Reid hater let alone a big one. What am I supposed to admit I was wrong about? I wasn't sure he could get us over the top but I'm not alone in that. I'm happy to admit I was wrong there.

[chiefzilla1501]

He's literally been ****ing this chicken for years.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13747943&postcount=1321

You will NEVER convince him otherwise. Somehow things have 'changed' rather than him just not understanding what the hell is going on.

That whole thread is a few guys trying to make the same old tired complaints and ignoring every bit of situational decision-making put in front of them. They ignore every time Andy TRIED to go downfield and execution blew it. Or every time he drew up a pass on 3rd down and a guy dropped it. Because he tried a run on 2nd and 6 that lost a couple yards and put them behind the sticks.

This thing has been stupid for so long and it just will not die. Now the same old parties try to argue that he's 'changed' somehow when he absolutely has not.

Yes, I poked this one chicken repeatedly. And I stand by it. We were not good at protecting leads. Even with Mahomes. You can come up with all kinds of reasons and excuses. But in too many games we let teams back into games we were dominating because of bad defense but also an offense that completely stalled once we got up 2 TDs. The 4th quarter version of Reid vs Houston and Tennessee looked like a coach going for the throat. I don't think I'm alone in saying that felt different in a great way.

[DJ's left nut]

Like I said - you're doubling down on stupid.

No sense in buying you books if you insist on eating the pages.

[Megatron96]

The mile high miracle.

Montana has Davis I think starting his break (would've been open) when Davis slips and falls. Montana immediately processes what is happening, pulls the ball down and in one motion turns and throws an outlet to Keith Cash to pick up some vital yards, move the sticks and keep things going.

That was my awakening to how vital a QB is in late-game situations. So very few QBs have the presence to notice that stumble, pull the ball down, know where everyone on the field is and get him the ball. Alex either throws it anyway (though he MIGHT have gone ahead and thrown it out the back of the end zone) or he'd have tucked it and run up the middle, gaining a handful of yards and bleeding the clock white. And Alex wasn't even bad - he was just average.

But a great QB makes chicken salad and maintains a chance to win.

YES. And thank you. The thing that still sticks for me was when we failed to convert the 3rd down and I hung my head and said to no one in particular, "well, that's it. Marty's going to kick the game away." And then that surreal feeling that rolled over me when Montana went over and got Captain Conservative to actually go for it. Without having to beat him senseless.

And the equally unique feeling of actually winning that game.

Wasn't that the first time the Chiefs had beaten the Broncos at Mile High in the playoffs in like 250 years? Or since the birth of our star? Something like that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Like I said - you're doubling down on stupid.

No sense in buying you books if you insist on eating the pages.

2018
LAC - blew a big lead, then dominated after LAC caught up
PITT - blew a big lead then dominated after PITt caught up
SF - outscored 20-3 in the second half
OAK - almost blew a 17 point 4q lead

This is just mahomes. We know the track record with Alex Smith. These are games where we dominated the entire game on offense except for the drives where we were up a couple of scores. With Mahomes we are downright unstoppable in second halves when the game is close or we are trailing. So how else can you explain a pattern of becoming 3 and out Champs coincidentally when we are up by 10+? I'm sure you have plenty of excuses for each of these games as opposed to seeing the obvious pattern.

[Megatron96]

2018
LAC - blew a big lead, then dominated after LAC caught up
PITT - blew a big lead then dominated after PITt caught up
SF - outscored 20-3 in the second half
OAK - almost blew a 17 point 4q lead

This is just mahomes. We know the track record with Alex Smith. These are games where we dominated the entire game on offense except for the drives where we were up a couple of scores. With Mahomes we are downright unstoppable in second halves when the game is close or we are trailing. So how else can you explain a pattern of becoming 3 and out Champs coincidentally when we are up by 10+? I'm sure you have plenty of excuses for each of these games as opposed to seeing the obvious pattern.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in 2018 Andy Reid wasn't the DC.

[DJ's left nut]

2018
LAC - blew a big lead, then dominated after LAC caught up
PITT - blew a big lead then dominated after PITt caught up
SF - outscored 20-3 in the second half
OAK - almost blew a 17 point 4q lead

This is just mahomes. We know the track record with Alex Smith. These are games where we dominated the entire game on offense except for the drives where we were up a couple of scores. With Mahomes we are downright unstoppable in second halves when the game is close or we are trailing. So how else can you explain a pattern of becoming 3 and out Champs coincidentally when we are up by 10+? I'm sure you have plenty of excuses for each of these games as opposed to seeing the obvious pattern.

I have spoken directly to you about the LAC and Pitt games (have already linked to one of them, the other is in that same thread) and how absolutely ludicrous your complaints are. I mean just total nonsense.

I have no inclination to review the other two.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[DJ's left nut]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in 2018 Andy Reid wasn't the DC.

Dude - I have literally walked him through the drive charts on these. There is NO rational basis for his complaints here. Just !@#$ing none.

Guy knows what he knows and that's all there is to it.

[Megatron96]

Dude - I have literally walked him through the drive charts on these. There is NO rational basis for his complaints here. Just !@#$ing none.

Guy knows what he knows and that's all there is to it.

I just wasn’t sure if he was aware that Andy Reid was not the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs in 2018.

[DJ's left nut]

I just wasn’t sure if he was aware that Andy Reid was not the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs in 2018.

I wouldn't go assuming any level of baseline awareness here...

[chiefzilla1501]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in 2018 Andy Reid wasn't the DC.

I didn't pin that on him. But in each of those spurts it also took an offense that completely stalled for the opponent to catch up. As in back to back 3-and-out stalling. When a consistently dominant offense consistently stalls in the same exact situation it means something.

We were unstoppable in 2018 in close games, trailing, and with a lead.
The only times we were inefficient was when we had a 10+ point lead. Pretty consistently. You can chalk it up as a complete coincidence. It looks like an obvious pattern to me.

[Hammock Parties]

People still blaming Andy for Alex and Sutton LMAO

Even after he fixed both problems LMAO

[DJ's left nut]

People still blaming Andy for Alex and Sutton LMAO

This is the 'microaggressions' of football fandom.

The Chiefs are so damn good that people like Chiefzilla need to find WINS to complain about. Because they were "unnecessarily close".

When life's too easy, you just make shit up to bitch about.

[RealSNR]

Andy Reid's record with Jim Johnson as defensive coordinator: 97-62-1 (.606) in the regular season, 10-7 in the playoffs (.588).

Without Johnson, Reid is 51-42 (.548) and 0-3 in the playoffs.

UPDATED:

Andy Reid's record without Jim Johnson as his defensive coordinator: 111-66 (.627) in the regular season, 5-7 in the playoffs (.416). Since Discuss made this post in 2014, Reid is 5-4 (.555) in the playoffs.

He has also won a Super Bowl, which he did while coaching the Kansas City Chiefs. They are my favorite football team.

[Jewish Rabbi]

UPDATED:

Andy Reid's record without Jim Johnson as his defensive coordinator: 111-66 (.627) in the regular season, 5-7 in the playoffs (.416). Since Discuss made this post in 2014, he is 5-4 (.555) in the playoffs.

He has also won a Super Bowl, which he did while coaching the Kansas City Chiefs. They are my favorite football team.

Holy FUCK!

The Kansas City Chiefs are MY favorite football team too!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

This is the 'microaggressions' of football fandom.

The Chiefs are so damn good that people like Chiefzilla need to find WINS to complain about. Because they were "unnecessarily close".

When life's too easy, you just make shit up to bitch about.

Oh good lord, it is one aspect of Reid's game I've been critical about. I've been effusive in praise otherwise. We can like and respect the hell out of a coach while acknowledging nobody's perfect.

[DJ's left nut]

Oh good lord, it is one aspect of Reid's game I've been critical about. I've been effusive in praise otherwise. We can like and respect the hell out of a coach while acknowledging nobody's perfect.

You cited 4 wins.

Like I said - guy wins so much you're just looking for things to complain about. I said it in '18 when we first had this conversation.

He doesn't win by enough so you grouse.

Remarkable.

[Lzen]

Sorry, but it wasn't just the switch to the WCO. Montana forced a philosophical change as well.

I can still remember that game in the playoffs, when we were down late in the game and didn't convert a 3rd down. Marty immediately signaled for the punting team. Montana ran over and argued with Marty for about 5 seconds, after which Marty thew up his hands and basically said 'okay let's go for it.' Montana ran back onto the field and easily converted that 4th down, and the rest is history.

Marty never would've gone for that 4th down conversion with any other QB except for his total respect for Montana.

Fair enough. I have always said that a great QB can make an above average/good coach great and vice versa. Look at all the great head coaches throughout history and damn near every one of them had a good/great QB. That was Marty's biggest problem throughout his tenure in KC. He never had that great QB with the exception of Montana in the twilight of his career.

[Lzen]

The mile high miracle.

Montana has Davis I think starting his break (would've been open) when Davis slips and falls. Montana immediately processes what is happening, pulls the ball down and in one motion turns and throws an outlet to Keith Cash to pick up some vital yards, move the sticks and keep things going.

That was my awakening to how vital a QB is in late-game situations. So very few QBs have the presence to notice that stumble, pull the ball down, know where everyone on the field is and get him the ball. Alex either throws it anyway (though he MIGHT have gone ahead and thrown it out the back of the end zone) or he'd have tucked it and run up the middle, gaining a handful of yards and bleeding the clock white. And Alex wasn't even bad - he was just average.

But a great QB makes chicken salad and maintains a chance to win.

90% chance Alex runs in that situation.

[DJ's left nut]

Fair enough. I have always said that a great QB can make an above average/good coach great and vice versa. Look at all the great head coaches throughout history and damn near every one of them had a good/great QB. That was Marty's biggest problem throughout his tenure in KC. He never had that great QB with the exception of Montana in the twilight of his career.

Montana was better than I remember in KC.

I watched a few of the old game videos of him - he didn't have a cannon but his arm had more life in it than I recalled.

If you'd have asked me prior to that I'd have said he was just a wobble launcher who always knew where to go with the football (kinda like Drew Brees now), but when he had time/space he could put some zip on the ball still.

Pretty impressive for a dude his age with his build and a history of back issues.

I've always kinda hand-waived the folks that said we could've come back in that Buffalo game but/for the concussion, but I think my memory of him had just failed me. He had more life in his arm than I'd remembered. With his understanding of defenses, yeah - he really could've brought 'em back.

[Lzen]

Montana was better than I remember in KC.

I watched a few of the old game videos of him - he didn't have a cannon but his arm had more life in it than I recalled.

If you'd have asked me prior to that I'd have said he was just a wobble launcher who always knew where to go with the football (kinda like Drew Brees now), but when he had time/space he could put some zip on the ball still.

Pretty impressive for a dude his age with his build and a history of back issues.

I've always kinda hand-waived the folks that said we could've come back in that Buffalo game but/for the concussion, but I think my memory of him had just failed me. He had more life in his arm than I'd remembered. With his understanding of defenses, yeah - he really could've brought 'em back.

I am one of those people that believe Montana would have won at Buffalo if not for the concussion. He was a winner. He was a gamer. Nothing got him down. He never felt that he couldn't overcome whatever the game situation. He never panicked.

A lot of those same qualities are present in our current young star. Man, it's great to be a Chiefs fan right now. :)

[chiefzilla1501]

You cited 4 wins.

Like I said - guy wins so much you're just looking for things to complain about. I said it in '18 when we first had this conversation.

He doesn't win by enough so you grouse.

Remarkable.

At the time we were talking about a coach who won a lot of regular season games but couldn't seal the deal in the playoffs. A guy who blew 2 playoff games in historic fashion. Coaching for a franchise that had been losing in epic fashion for decades. That's silly to suggest at that time it was spoiled to pick at a coach just because he won some games. I love the guy but have been critical of one aspect of his game I felt needed improvement. One. I stand by that. At least I'm being honest where a lot of people are silent after calling for his head after Tennessee and New England, or as if people having been picking at every game management decision.

[DaneMcCloud]

I am one of those people that believe Montana would have won at Buffalo if not for the concussion. He was a winner. He was a gamer. Nothing got him down. He never felt that he couldn't overcome whatever the game situation. He never panicked

I've always kinda hand-waived the folks that said we could've come back in that Buffalo game but/for the concussion, but I think my memory of him had just failed me. He had more life in his arm than I'd remembered. With his understanding of defenses, yeah - he really could've brought 'em back.

I hate to disagree with you guys but Montana was awful during the 1993 AFC Championship. He was sacked twice, threw an INT and had a stat line of 9 for 23 for a 125 yards, good for a 39.2 Passer Rating. The Chiefs scored only 6 points before Montana went out with a concussion.

That Buffalo defense was just awesome, with Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, my old buddy Jeff Wright and couple of well above average linebackers in Marvcus Patton and Daryl Talley.

I just don't think Montana would have been able to turn the team around and score enough points to win but we'll never know...

[RunKC]

UPDATED:

Andy Reid's record without Jim Johnson as his defensive coordinator: 111-66 (.627) in the regular season, 5-7 in the playoffs (.416). Since Discuss made this post in 2014, Reid is 5-4 (.555) in the playoffs.

He has also won a Super Bowl, which he did while coaching the Kansas City Chiefs. They are my favorite football team.

Spags is Andy’s new Jimmy Johnson. He’s been searching for years and he’s finally got a very good DC.

The best part is I don’t see Spags leaving. He’s gonna be here for as long as Andy is.

[DJ's left nut]

I hate to disagree with you guys but Montana was awful during the 1993 AFC Championship. He was sacked twice, threw an INT and had a stat line of 9 for 23 for a 125 yards, good for a 39.2 Passer Rating. The Chiefs scored only 6 points before Montana went out with a concussion.

That Buffalo defense was just awesome, with Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, my old buddy Jeff Wright and couple of well above average linebackers in Marvcus Patton and Daryl Talley.

I just don't think Montana would have been able to turn the team around and score enough points to win but we'll never know...

I'd have to re-watch that game specifically. The stats do not paint a pretty picture, that's for sure.

But sometimes that's what makes the legends. Like I said in some thread 'round here yesterday, shooters shoot and greatness eventually finds its level.

You're probably right. And like I said - I've typically dismissed the idea out of hand (partially because I remember sitting in my room at 12 yrs old thinking "jesus - why does Montana suck so bad?"), but was open to reconsidering it seeing some of those plays where the offense was a little more open than I recall and Montana was showing more life outside the hashes than I could remember.

It's funny - as stolid and unimaginative as I think of offenses throughout the 90s, especially with Marty, when Montana was at the wheel there were a lot more 3 and 4 receiver sets than I recalled. Lots of 22 personnel as well. It wasn't quite the halfback, fullback, 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense I remembered.

I kinda wonder if I haven't lumped all my early years of Chiefs fandom into a single iteration of the squad.

[DJ's left nut]

At the time we were talking about a coach who won a lot of regular season games but couldn't seal the deal in the playoffs. A guy who blew 2 playoff games in historic fashion. Coaching for a franchise that had been losing in epic fashion for decades. That's silly to suggest at that time it was spoiled to pick at a coach just because he won some games. I love the guy but have been critical of one aspect of his game I felt needed improvement. One. I stand by that. At least I'm being honest where a lot of people are silent after calling for his head after Tennessee and New England, or as if people having been picking at every game management decision.

And I've done detailed breakdowns of why those people were stupid to complain about the TN and NE losses as well, especially for the REASONS they complain about them. I ain't one of those people so I have no compunction in pointing out how inane their complaints were.

And I've pointed out that the other of those 2 'historic' losses you're citing came precisely because Andy Reid DIDN'T do the thing you're saying he shouldn't be doing. He followed your blueprint and lost. So of course you complain about THAT as well.

You've been critical - and you've been wrong.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd have to re-watch that game specifically. The stats do not paint a pretty picture, that's for sure.

By January 1994, I'd been living in Los Angeles for nearly a full year but took a quick trip to KC over MLK weekend. A few of my closest friends got together at a buddy's condo to watch the Chiefs-Oilers game, which was a complete and utter shock because Montana just dominated the second half of the game by scoring 4 TD's - we're talking Pat Mahomes II kind of domination.

The next day, the Northridge earthquake hit and I didn't get back to Hollywood until the following Thursday. I just didn't have a good feeling about the Chiefs against the Bills, especially in Buffalo, because their defense was just tits and matched up really well against the Chiefs.

I just remember shaking my head at Dave Krieg's performance. I still don't understand why that guy was on the Chiefs roster but I guess it had to do with the lack of QB's back then, which was truly an abysmal time for all but a few QB, but the defense was deflated as well and gave up 10 more points in the 4th.

It just wasn't the Chiefs day.

[Hammock Parties]

The Chiefs COULD have come back in that game if Kimble Anders had not dropped a sure touchdown, which turned into an INT, right before halftime.

It was 20-6 at halftime, instead of 20-13, because of fucking Kimble Anders.

Watch at 1:10 mark.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OlHUNTV13UY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Then Joe got his noggin wrecked and it was over. They were as close as 7 points in the second half despite that awful drop and Joe's braining.

[Megatron96]

Thx for posting the video.

Thing is, Montana was having a pretty good drive before the half before Anders inexplicably muffed that catch in the EZ.

And Joe was moving the offense down the field before he got hurt. It's not like the Bills D had him completely stymied. Joe was figuring things out and making some plays.

Of course we'll never know, but as I remembered it, we had a chance, though a small one, to come back in that game, and that was because of Joe Cool.

[mlyonsd]

Reid sucks. If you can't see that from looking at the play calling yesterday there is no hope for you.:LOL: What a fucking moron.

[Megatron96]

But that Bills defense was incredible. All-time level, IMO.

[CasselGotPeedOn]

Reetard got butt hurt and bumped a 10 year old thread. LMAO

[Pablo]

:LOL: What a fucking moron.

You should have called that guy a dumbass.

[ChiefsCountry]

I just remember shaking my head at Dave Krieg's performance. I still don't understand why that guy was on the Chiefs roster but I guess it had to do with the lack of QB's back then, which was truly an abysmal time for all but a few QB, but the defense was deflated as well and gave up 10 more points in the 4th.

As a backup QB, you could get worse than Kreig. Shit after he left the Chiefs he ended up starting for Detroit and Arizona. Of course Kreig was the reason the Chiefs didn't get the #2 seed that year as well.

[crayzkirk]

I'm pretty sure I was on the anti-Reid side. I wanted to see new blood at coach, just as the Chiefs never drafted a QB in the first round, they were also repeating the same mistake (IMO) of hiring a coach that was failed.

Andy is a great offensive mind. The Chiefs were also repeating the same pattern of success in the regular season followed by playoff heartbreak which was an unfortunate pattern in KC.

So, now they break the pattern, trade draft picks to finally get a QB in the first round.

As I have said before, behind every great player is a coach ready to be given the credit.

[Chiefspants]

As I have said before, behind every great player is a coach ready to be given the credit.

The chicken or the egg argument.

[Pitt Gorilla]

The Chiefs COULD have come back in that game if Kimble Anders had not dropped a sure touchdown, which turned into an INT, right before halftime.

It was 20-6 at halftime, instead of 20-13, because of ****ing Kimble Anders.

Watch at 1:10 mark.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OlHUNTV13UY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Then Joe got his noggin wrecked and it was over. They were as close as 7 points in the second half despite that awful drop and Joe's braining.The play I remember more than any other. Completely changed the game.

[chiefzilla1501]

And I've done detailed breakdowns of why those people were stupid to complain about the TN and NE losses as well, especially for the REASONS they complain about them. I ain't one of those people so I have no compunction in pointing out how inane their complaints were.

And I've pointed out that the other of those 2 'historic' losses you're citing came precisely because Andy Reid DIDN'T do the thing you're saying he shouldn't be doing. He followed your blueprint and lost. So of course you complain about THAT as well.

You've been critical - and you've been wrong.

I don't think I've ever argued with you about those games. I have no idea where all these accusations are coming from.