Why Would Any Team Hire a Defensive-Minded Head Coach?

[MahiMike]

I don't get it.

[BigMeatballDave]

Bill Belichick says Hi!

[MahiMike]

Bill Belichick says Hi!

He's not 'defensive' minded. He's brilliant.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The Seahawks would disagree as would Indy and New England

[Easy 6]

Bill Belichick says Hi!

He's not 'defensive' minded. He's brilliant.

The Seahawks would disagree as would Indy and New England


They have you surrounded, Mike... come out with your hands up.

Defensive minded HC + top shelf QB = winning formula.

[TribalElder]

Defense wins championships ?

[BigMeatballDave]

I do prefer an offensive HC, though.

[BigMeatballDave]

Defense wins championships ?

Old adage, but I think Seattle may be bringing it back.

[MahiMike]

I disagree. These 2 they mentioned may have come from defense, but they have proven that they know both sides of the ball. They are the exception.

But these guys have proven that they are 1 trick ponies:

Marty
Herm
Romeo
Del Rio
Gus Bradley
John Fox (without Peyton)
Rex Ryan
Ron Rivera
etc.

The problem with these guys is they rely on a running game and a good defense. Once they get down by 14, they are toast. And if they get up by 14, they pull back. It's just not in them to try and score.

You're left wondering if it's the QB, the OC or what? When in reality, it's the coach's philosophy that's holding them back.

No team should hire a defensive-minded coach. Only offensive. Hire the best DC.

THAT is the winning formula!

[O.city]

It's not necessarily offense or defense with these coaches anymore, IMO.

Go get the guy who's the best at dealing with the intricacies of the NFL head coaching position the best way possible. Best at dealing with players, managing said players etc. Theres a fine line between players coach and to lenient and hard ass and respected HC.

[petegz28]

I disagree. These 2 they mentioned may have come from defense, but they have proven that they know both sides of the ball. They are the exception.

But these guys have proven that they are 1 trick ponies:

Marty
Herm
Romeo
Del Rio
Gus Bradley
John Fox (without Peyton)
Rex Ryan
Ron Rivera
etc.

The problem with these guys is they rely on a running game and a good defense. Once they get down by 14, they are toast. And if they get up by 14, they pull back. It's just not in them to try and score.

You're left wondering if it's the QB, the OC or what? When in reality, it's the coach's philosophy that's holding them back.

No team should hire a defensive-minded coach. Only offensive. Hire the best DC.

THAT is the winning formula!

I'd take Marty off of that list. Marty lost in the playoffs because:

Cleveland fumble inside the 5, Elway mounts huge drive for win
Miami kicks the longest FG in playoff history (at that point in time)
Montana gets hurt in AFC Championship game
Bono throws 4 picks, Elliot misses 3 FG's
TG comes down with a pass 1/2 inch out of bounds, phantom holding call on FG attempt, kicker misses FG to tie game


That's just the football God's shitting on you is what that is

[Direckshun]

Because defensive coaches breed tougher teams with players who play harder.

[petegz28]

Because defensive coaches breed tougher teams with players who play harder.

Besides that, the rules already favor the offense tremendously. So having a defensive minded coach is even more important now than ever.

[petegz28]

He's not 'defensive' minded. He's brilliant.

He's a defensive minded coach with a brilliant QB.

[Just Passin' By]

The Seahawks would disagree as would Indy and New England

And the Steelers

[Buehler445]

Bill Belichick says Hi!

You mean the motherfucker who scored the most points ever at the time to go 18-0 by selling out his defense and focusing all on offense?

[Mr. Laz]

I don't get it.

because most of the people who really know football realize that more than the QB matters


unlike CP

[MahiMike]

And the Steelers

That team that just broke their own scoring record? That team?

[Just Passin' By]

That team that just broke their own scoring record? That team?

If your argument is that you shouldn't hire a coach who tells his offense never to play a down, and only uses defensive players on his team we'll all agree with that. If your argument is that teams shouldn't be hiring defensive-minded head coaches, that's just stupid. Examples have been given. claiming that they aren't defensive minded coaches because they don't have teams that suck ass on offense is idiotic.

And, just to show that it works both ways, Brian Billick was an offensive minded coach (tight ends coach, offensive coordinator) who led the Ravens to a defensively based Super Bowl win.

[MahiMike]

If your argument is that you shouldn't hire a coach who tells his offense never to play a down, and only uses defensive players on his team we'll all agree with that. If your argument is that teams shouldn't be hiring defensive-minded head coaches, that's just stupid. Examples have been given. claiming that they aren't defensive minded coaches because they don't have teams that suck ass on offense is idiotic.

And, just to show that it works both ways, Brian Billick was an offensive minded coach (tight ends coach, offensive coordinator) who led the Ravens to a defensively based Super Bowl win.

Give a guy 10 years and I guess he can break out of his ways.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There are two kinds of defensive-minded HCs.

The ones you don't want are the guys who know nothing about offense, or who actively despise it like Herm or Rex Ryan. Shit, Tony Dungy was basically that guy until he fell ass over teakettle into Peyton Manning

There are also defensive head coaches who are comfortable with being aggressive and who embrace a modern offense. Belichick, Riverboat Ron, Mike Tomlin are all good examples.

But if I ever hear a coach talking about the need to establish the running game and play good defense, I'm out, because that guy is a fucking dinosaur.

[DaneMcCloud]

Because defensive coaches breed tougher teams with players who play harder.

Yeah, those Broncos were tough this year

LMAO

[Just Passin' By]

Give a guy 10 years and I guess he can break out of his ways.

What the hell are you talking about? There's a difference between being defensive-minded and completely neglecting the offensive side of the ball.

[DaneMcCloud]

There are two kinds of defensive-minded HCs.

The ones you don't want are the guys who know nothing about offense, or who actively despise it like Herm or Rex Ryan. Shit, Tony Dungy was basically that guy until he fell ass over teakettle into Peyton Manning

There are also defensive head coaches who are comfortable with being aggressive and who embrace a modern offense. Belichick, Riverboat Ron, Mike Tomlin are all good examples.

But if I ever hear a coach talking about the need to establish the running game and play good defense, I'm out, because that guy is a fucking dinosaur.

I believe that Tony Dungy will never coach, at any level, ever again, for fear of being exposed as a fraud.

Those Tampa Bay teams had incredible drafts and incredible defensive players. But he could never get the offense off the ground. Ever.

Without Peyton, he'd have been fired inside of two years.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I believe that Tony Dungy will never coach, at any level, ever again, for fear of being exposed as a fraud.

Those Tampa Bay teams had incredible drafts and incredible defensive players. But he could never get the offense off the ground. Ever.

Without Peyton, he'd have been fired inside of two years.

He's Herm with Peyton Manning and no parenting skills.

[keg in kc]

Defensive coaches are fine but they tend to be conservative to the point of being self-defeating. The ones that win championships are the ones who don't let their defensive leanings cripple their offenses. The rest are Marty. I've seen a number of Marty hires this week.

[DaneMcCloud]

He's Herm with Peyton Manning and no parenting skills.

Truer words have never been spoken

[rtmike]

Speaking of Tomlin, I wonder if he'll try & slowly start moving towards the Tampa 2 now that LeBeau is gone?

Seeings how they hired from within, probably not?

[Rams Fan]

What defensive coach has made a SB without an elite QB recently?

Fox(With Delhomme) and Lovie(Grossman)?

[Reerun_KC]

I disagree. These 2 they mentioned may have come from defense, but they have proven that they know both sides of the ball. They are the exception.

But these guys have proven that they are 1 trick ponies:

Marty
Herm
Romeo
Del Rio
Gus Bradley
John Fox (without Peyton)
Rex Ryan
Ron Rivera
etc.

The problem with these guys is they rely on a running game and a good defense. Once they get down by 14, they are toast. And if they get up by 14, they pull back. It's just not in them to try and score.

You're left wondering if it's the QB, the OC or what? When in reality, it's the coach's philosophy that's holding them back.

No team should hire a defensive-minded coach. Only offensive. Hire the best DC.

THAT is the winning formula!
There is so much fail on that list. Bottom shit coaches of all time.

[Reerun_KC]

I'd take Marty off of that list. Marty lost in the playoffs because:

Cleveland fumble inside the 5, Elway mounts huge drive for win
Miami kicks the longest FG in playoff history (at that point in time)
Montana gets hurt in AFC Championship game
Bono throws 4 picks, Elliot misses 3 FG's
TG comes down with a pass 1/2 inch out of bounds, phantom holding call on FG attempt, kicker misses FG to tie game


That's just the football God's shitting on you is what that is
Marty is a fucking life loser because of himself. He deserves to be on all shit coaching lists.

He sucked because he was a coward.

[Rams Fan]

Marty is a ****ing life loser because of himself. He deserves to be on all shit coaching lists.

He sucked because he was a coward.
The Fumble is definitely on him. Gotcha.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Speaking of Tomlin, I wonder if he'll try & slowly start moving towards the Tampa 2 now that LeBeau is gone?

Seeings how they hired from within, probably not?

They need to replace their entire secondary, get a new NT, and find another pass rusher.

[Buehler445]

There are two kinds of defensive-minded HCs.

The ones you don't want are the guys who know nothing about offense, or who actively despise it like Herm or Rex Ryan. Shit, Tony Dungy was basically that guy until he fell ass over teakettle into Peyton Manning

There are also defensive head coaches who are comfortable with being aggressive and who embrace a modern offense. Belichick, Riverboat Ron, Mike Tomlin are all good examples.

But if I ever hear a coach talking about the need to establish the running game and play good defense, I'm out, because that guy is a fucking dinosaur.

Good post.

I believe that Tony Dungy will never coach, at any level, ever again, for fear of being exposed as a fraud.

Those Tampa Bay teams had incredible drafts and incredible defensive players. But he could never get the offense off the ground. Ever.

Without Peyton, he'd have been fired inside of two years.

I've said for years that man is a fraud of frauds. The defensive guy had some of the shittiest defenses ever fielded and fucked off Manning's career.

[Reerun_KC]

The Fumble is definitely on him. Gotcha.
Make excuses all you want. But his history proves other wise.

Dude was a complete fraud.

[Reerun_KC]

Another coach I can't stand is cowher and his fucked up face.

[Rams Fan]

Make excuses all you want. But his history proves other wise.

Dude was a complete fraud.

If his teams were frauds, they would not have consistently made the POs. It's another thing to consistently underachieve, however.

[DaneMcCloud]

If his teams were frauds, they would not have consistently made the POs. It's another thing to consistently underachieve, however.

:facepalm:

[Rams Fan]

:facepalm:

There's a difference between consistently losing in the POs and going 10-6 with a last place schedule and finishing under .500 the next season.

[Reerun_KC]

If his teams were frauds, they would not have consistently made the POs. It's another thing to consistently underachieve, however.
The guy has 5-15 playoff record. He was his own worse enemy. 12 year old kids on super tecmo bowl were more prepped and skilled at coaching that this ass loser.

Fuck his face with a rusty chain saw. He is the main reason this franchise is still fucked up today. This fan base is more stupid because of his love for mediocrity.

[DaneMcCloud]

Make excuses all you want. But his history proves other wise.

Dude was a complete fraud.
Marty was NOT a fraud.

He was what he was: A tough, hard nosed coach that believed in fundamental football. Running, tackling, sacking the quarterback and playing hard. He never sold himself as anything else.

Unfortunately for him, the rules of the game changed and he became a dinosaur.

But to call him a fraud is disingenuous.

[DaneMcCloud]

There's a difference between consistently losing in the POs and going 10-6 with a last place schedule and finishing under .500 the next season.

Before Peyton, Fox was extremely inconsistent.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Marty was an excellent teacher and communicator, but his teams lacked discipline (KC's penalties under him were always out of control) and he coached afraid.

[Rams Fan]

Before Peyton, Fox was extremely inconsistent.

I was referring to Marty.

[O.city]

If we could only cross decades and have marty as the head coach, vermeil as the oc, Cowher as the DC and Reid as the qb coach or whaetever, we'd be pretty good.

And Haley as the wrs coach of course

[Reerun_KC]

Marty was NOT a fraud.

He was what he was: A tough, hard nosed coach that believed in fundamental football. Running, tackling, sacking the quarterback and playing hard. He never sold himself as anything else.

Unfortunately for him, the rules of the game changed and he became a dinosaur.

But to call him a fraud is disingenuous.
Okay he was a joke? Coward? Spineless? Gutless? Clueless?

Take your pick. He is a loser and always will be a loser. He was Elways bitch time and time again.

[KCCHIEFS27]

I don't understand why newly hired coaches get more than a one year contract.

[Reerun_KC]

Marty was an excellent teacher and communicator, but his teams lacked discipline (KC's penalties under him were always out of control) and he coached afraid.
Monday night meltdown.

Bubby brister wrecked Marty's chiefs that night.

[Easy 6]

There are two kinds of defensive-minded HCs.

The ones you don't want are the guys who know nothing about offense, or who actively despise it like Herm or Rex Ryan. Shit, Tony Dungy was basically that guy until he fell ass over teakettle into Peyton Manning

There are also defensive head coaches who are comfortable with being aggressive and who embrace a modern offense. Belichick, Riverboat Ron, Mike Tomlin are all good examples.

But if I ever hear a coach talking about the need to establish the running game and play good defense, I'm out, because that guy is a ****ing dinosaur.

We may not hear a guy like Carroll extolling those virtues, but its what he has built the world champions around... play great defense and be able to break a teams will with your run game.

He may have tempered those principles with a guy like Wilson and some creative offense based off his mobility... but they're still built on a badass defense and a soul crushing run game.

I honestly dont think either of those things will EVER go out of style in the NFL, regardless of Goodells rule tinkering.

Yeah, those Broncos were tough this year

LMAO

They were tough enough on the Chiefs this year and last...

Stonewalled our pass rush atleast two years in a row now, its not like I'm happy to report this in any way whatsoever... but if they were soft what does that make the Chiefs?

Top pass defense, top rated redzone defense... none of that helped our team even get close to smacking fivehead upside his blindside.

[Just Passin' By]

We may not hear a guy like Carroll extolling those virtues, but its what he has built the world champions around... play great defense and be able to break a teams will with your run game...

Absolutely




From Pete himself:

“Whenever we’re running the ball a lot, then we’re fine . . . that’s really important to the make-up of our team,” Carroll said. “So when it’s not there, we all felt it.”

http://sportspressnw.com/2191193/2014/carroll-seahawks-must-get-back-to-the-run

“One game at a time. We’re doing things the way we want to do and we’re playing defense the way we want. We’re committing to the running game. We’re taking care of the football; we did not turn the ball over again, which is such a winning aspect of our play. We’re just going to try and keep going. We have another game to see what we can do.”

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/22/post-game-quotes-from-seattle-coach-pete-carroll-4/


2014 numbers
525 rushing plays
454 passing plays

2013 numbers
509 rushing plays
420 passing plays

2012 numbers
536 rushing plays
405 passing plays

Numbers are from Pro-football-reference.com

[GloucesterChief]

Its not like offensive minded coaches have a better track record.

See Norv Turner, Charlie Weis, Marty Mornhinwg, Steve Mariucci, etc.

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay he was a joke? Coward? Spineless? Gutless? Clueless?

Take your pick. He is a loser and always will be a loser. He was Elways bitch time and time again.

Marty is not a loser. That's absurd. His 1960's philosophy didn't translate to the 90's or 2000's and he was too stubborn to change his ways.

But he was not a loser.

[O.city]

Marty is not a loser. That's absurd. His 1960's philosophy didn't translate to the 90's or 2000's and he was too stubborn to change his ways.

But he was not a loser.

It didn't necessarily not translate.....sorta.

He won alot of regular season games and put together really great teams but just couldn't win the big one.

Yeah, don't see how you can call him a loser though. He won everywhere he went. Just seemed to have a playoff mental block.

[DaneMcCloud]

It didn't necessarily not translate.....sorta.

He won alot of regular season games and put together really great teams but just couldn't win the big one.

Yeah, don't see how you can call him a loser though. He won everywhere he went. Just seemed to have a playoff mental block.
Marty always did more with less in the regular season but he rarely had enough talent come playoff time.

[O.city]

Marty always did more with less in the regular season but he rarely had enough talent come playoff time.

He just never had the QB here in KC or atleast never trusted the one he had.

Trusted Kickers though...

[Easy 6]

Absolutely




From Pete himself:



http://sportspressnw.com/2191193/2014/carroll-seahawks-must-get-back-to-the-run



http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/22/post-game-quotes-from-seattle-coach-pete-carroll-4/


2014 numbers
525 rushing plays
454 passing plays

2013 numbers
509 rushing plays
420 passing plays

2012 numbers
536 rushing plays
405 passing plays

Numbers are from Pro-football-reference.com

There it is, proof that defense and running is the heart of that team, though I doubt anyone would truly doubt it even without those quotes and stats... its one of those things that keep me loving football, some things are never going to change no matter how hard Goodell tries.

If you can smack the other team in the mouth harder than they're capable of/willing to smack back in either one of those areas... you win that game 90% of the time.

[ChiefsCountry]

Marty always did more with less in the regular season but he rarely had enough talent come playoff time.

When Marty had the better QB he normally won in the playoffs sans the 2004 year. Marino, Elway and Kelly were just better than Bernie Kosar, Steve DeBerg and Dave Krieg types. Marty and Marino would have been a damn tough combo to beat.

[Hammock Parties]

Don't think it really matters what label you give a HC anymore.

Marc Trestman was seen as an OFFENSIVE GENIOUS!!!11one and the Bears are a mess.

[DaneMcCloud]

When Marty had the better QB he normally won in the playoffs sans the 2004 year. Marino, Elway and Kelly were just better than Bernie Kosar, Steve DeBerg and Dave Krieg types. Marty and Marino would have been a damn tough combo to beat.

Yep. It's really silly to say that Marty was a "loser". Frank Gansz was a loser. Tom Pratt was a loser.

Marty was a very good coach that never got over the hump. That happens in sports.

[Hammock Parties]

Marty is the only reason 75% of CP exists.

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't know why people continue to obsess over schemes and being a good or bad offensive or defensive mind, when the best thing a head coach can do is plan, lead, and motivate. And good leaders are also comfortable delegating to strong assistants and coordinators.

Same dumb shit that got people excited about Romeo. Same reason why some of the most brilliant offensive minds seem to have players who play with no passion.

[DTLB58]

It shouldn't matter their philosophy on one side of the ball or the other. What should matter, is if they are in lock step with the GM and the vision they have how to get to the ultimate goal. Also, if the owner is willing to spend to get the assistant coaches that are needed to put a great staff together.
If you find the right people, there are many different ways to build a team and win a Championship in the NFL.

[BigMeatballDave]

Marty is the only reason 75% of CP exists.

Fuck Marty

[BigMeatballDave]

Marty was a very good coach that never got over the hump. That happens in sports.

Marty's ultimate failures: 1995 A kicker and a horrible game plan vs Indy.

1997 Not sticking with Gannon.

[ILChief]

3 of the final 4 are defensive coaches