Pats Cheating Comfirmed

[PizzaDoughz]

According to the report, the league sources say the NFL determined 11 of the 12 footballs used by the Patriots were under-inflated by two pounds per square inch each. Per NFL rules, footballs are required to be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/20/7864117/patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-new-england-bill-belichick

Discuss.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Don't care to be honest.

[thabear04]

Who give a shit. I bet the grass was an inch to tall.

[TribalElder]

The New England Patriots had 11 of their 12 allotted game footballs under-inflated by 2 pounds of air (PSI) as required by NFL regulations, according to league sources either involved or familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC championship game when the Patriots beat the Colts 45-7 to advance to their sixth Super Bowl.

[+] EnlargeTom Brady
AP Photo/Matt Slocum
The Patriots had 11 of their 12 game footballs under-inflated by 2 pounds of air as required by NFL regulations during the AFC championship game against the Colts, according to league sources.
"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

Troy Vincent, the league's senior executive vice president of football operations, said earlier Tuesday that the NFL expected to wrap up its investigation in "two or three days."

Yet to be determined is what, if any, penalties may be imposed upon Patriots. One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught," after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday.

Part of the investigation that still needs further vetting is how the 11 footballs became under-inflated. The game balls provided to each team for preparation were required to be inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson two hours and 15 minutes before kickoff before they were returned to each team. No alteration of footballs is allowed once they are approved, under league rules and regulations.

The balls are required be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.

[Jimmya]

I'm shocked that the Pats were found guilty as usual.

[Bugeater]

What was wrong with the thread we already had on this topic?

[Dante84]

yawn.

Who gives a flying fuck.

[TribalElder]

Kick the pats out of the super bowl


for the lulz

[Reerun_KC]

And were still the Chuefs.

[Katipan]

I guess I care if teams are altering footballs.

[alpha_omega]

meh. Wouldn't both teams have had the advantage?

[Ming the Merciless]

i just dont get if all the balls were under inflated

1) why does this help JUST the pats

2) why did the refs not spot it before the game

3) why did the refs not spot it the hundred times they touched the balls

4) how does this help the pats and hurt the colts simultaneously




It just seems like they prepared the balls and the refs checked them and game on....

What am i missing

[RealSNR]

I don't see how they were cheating. Tom Brady had to throw the same deflated football that Andrew Luck did, right?

[TribalElder]

No, as I understand it each team uses the balls they bring

Colts inflated
Pats deflated

Pats advantage

[Katipan]

If it's intentional deflation it's because they think the Patriots are better prepared to play with deflated balls.

Liiiike how some guys run better on turf.

Not that I buy any of that, but I can't throw a properly inflated ball.

I hope it was some towel boy or pot head playing a huge practical joke.

Edit: I didn't realize they keep their own balls. Then, um, yah. No bueno.

[Jimmya]

ESPN said each team use their own balls.

[TribalElder]

The reason it was caught was after an interception the colts defender told the coach or equip guy who told gm who told officiating who checked the pats balls

It would have went unnoticed otherwise

[Bowser]

Banish them to the CFL for three years.

[Ming the Merciless]

Banish them to the CFL for three years.

LAWL

[Ming the Merciless]

ESPN said each team use their own balls.

wtf

i heard the home team provided all 12 balls

fuck it


fuck the pats

[Captain Obvious]

No, as I understand it each team uses the balls they bring

Colts inflated
Pats deflated

Pats advantage

It's hard to believe there are so many people who don't/didn't know this.

[TribalElder]

It's hard to believe there are so many people who don't/didn't know this.

I'm shocked the officials don't control the game balls

[Bugeater]

It's hard to believe there are so many people who don't/didn't know this.
There's not really any reason the average football fan needs to know who supplies the fucking footballs.

[alpha_omega]

ESPN said each team use their own balls.

That's interesting. I can't confirm but I am almost sure that ISNT what they said a couple of days ago.

[Ming the Merciless]

It's hard to believe there are so many people who don't/didn't know this.

TOTALLY

BUNCH OF MORONS

[Ming the Merciless]

That's interesting. I can't confirm but I am almost sure that ISNT what they said a couple of days ago.

exactly

I still dont see what fucking difference it makes

if the refs checked their balls and handled the balls every snap

ffs

[Katipan]

I bet most of us think it's stupid that the NFL doesn't just provide the balls.

[TribalElder]

exactly

I still dont see what fucking difference it makes

if the refs checked their balls and handled the balls every snap

ffs

The refs inspected the balls 2+ hours before the game, in that time the patriots let the air out of 11 of their game balls. That is the problem.

The patriots probably listen to the other teams locker rooms and headsets

[Hootie]

i just dont get if all the balls were under inflated

1) why does this help JUST the pats

2) why did the refs not spot it before the game

3) why did the refs not spot it the hundred times they touched the balls

4) how does this help the pats and hurt the colts simultaneously




It just seems like they prepared the balls and the refs checked them and game on....

What am i missing
How have you not understood that the Pats and Colts were using different balls? You've not caught onto that part yet?

[Bugeater]

That's interesting. I can't confirm but I am almost sure that ISNT what they said a couple of days ago.
Yeah, if you go look at the first couple pages of the other thread, there's some links to the rule book that state that the home team provides the balls.

[keg in kc]

Wonder if there's even an established punishment.

Wonder if this will spark a rules change.

[Ming the Merciless]

How have you not understood that the Pats and Colts were using different balls? You've not caught onto that part yet?

i now have

but that isnt what they were saying yesterday or even this morning


I still think the refs are to blame for letting the balls in play....according to the rules

[Ming the Merciless]

Yeah, if you go look at the first couple pages of the other thread, there's some links to the rule book that state that the home team provides the balls.

this

[Captain Obvious]

There's not really any reason the average football fan needs to know who supplies the ****ing footballs.

Same as in college and high school and junior high and...

[TribalElder]

i now have

but that isnt what they were saying yesterday or even this morning


I still think the refs are to blame for letting the balls in play....

Refs verified equipment prior to the game, after which time the patriots altered it

[Bugeater]

Same as in college and high school and junior high and...
And I'm sure that the fans of those levels of the sport don't know or care where the fucking footballs come from.

[srvy]

Damn 2 lbs psi under minimum specs is quiet a bit. There isnt much volume in a football so I would think compared to a car tire it would be like 5 to 8 lbs under inflated. Why the ref that spots the ball before each snap wouldn't notice this? I know 2 lbs doesn't seem much but I thing it is. When I get home tomorrow sounds like a good experiment. Inflate my football to 14 lbs then deflate to 12 see if its noticeable.

[Bowser]

Were the deflated balls easier for LeGarrette Blount to handle? (nttiawwt)

[stevieray]

I call bs....ball boys on the field...experienced line judges who handle balls on a continuous basis didn't notice, yet a LB catches an INT and figures it out?

Face it NFL...the Patriots are Just that WElLL COACHED,....

You can't help but be all jealous of a team who keeps plugging in guys year in and year out and continue to win when it matters most. When it's Denver cheating its ok because you aren't trying unless you do...but now we care?

[Ming the Merciless]

Were the deflated balls easier for LeGarrette Blount to handle? (nttiawwt)

yes and the deflated balls made it easier for the Pats to tackle but the colts defenders fell over like bowling pins

what a fucking joke, seriously

so many cry babies...

its unreal

[Ming the Merciless]

Damn 2 lbs psi under minimum specs is quiet a bit. There isnt much volume in a football so I would think compared to a car tire it would be like 5 to 8 lbs under inflated. Why the ref that spots the ball before each snap wouldn't notice this? I know 2 lbs doesn't seem much but I thing it is. When I get home tomorrow sounds like a good experiment. Inflate my football to 14 lbs then deflate to 12 see if its noticeable.

its like what...15% or so?

[Hootie]

I call bs....ball boys on the field...experienced line judges who handle balls on a continuous basis didn't notice, yet a LB catches an INT and figures it out?

Face it NFL...the Patriots are Just that WElLL COACHED,....

You can't help be all jealous of a team who keeps plugging in guys year in and year out and continue to win when it matters most.
You call bullshit? Sounds like it was confirmed. I'm not sure how something that is confirmed cheating is bullshit ... ?

Of course the Pats are a great team ... that's why it's so ridiculous they keep cheating.

[TribalElder]

Chicken or the egg

Are they great because they cheated?

[Bugeater]

yes and the deflated balls made it easier for the Pats to tackle but the colts defenders fell over like bowling pins

what a fucking joke, seriously

so many cry babies...

its unreal
Well the thing is, the Pats didn't know they were going to end up rolling right over Indy when they screwed with the balls. Saying that it doesn't matter since they blew them out is like saying it doesn't matter that I drove home shitfaced drunk since I didn't kill anybody along the way.

[RobBlake]

just stupid.

First. NFL should be the ones that supplies the footballs.

Secondly, even if the NFL doesn't, then the balls checked should be checked during the anthem or like 10mins before kickoff.

Just dumb.

[TimBone]

exactly

I still dont see what fucking difference it makes

if the refs checked their balls and handled the balls every snap

ffs
Thats the main thing I wanna know. Did the refs check the balls like they were supposed to do? Did the Pats alter them after that?

[Ming the Merciless]

Well the thing is, the Pats didn't know they were going to end up rolling right over Indy when they screwed with the balls. Saying that it doesn't matter since they blew them out is like saying it doesn't matter that I drove home shitfaced drunk since I didn't kill anybody along the way.

you have a point...

and if walt anderson comes out and says he DID check the balls and they were legit 2 hours before the game...

I will agree the pats ought to be punished

but if the refs let the balls pass as-is....

then its on them

[Ming the Merciless]

Thats the main thing I wanna know. Did the refs check the balls like they were supposed to do? Did the Pats alter them after that?

this x 11tybizillion

[stevieray]

You call bullshit? Sounds like it was confirmed. I'm not sure how something that is confirmed cheating is bullshit ... ?

Of course the Pats are a great team ... that's why it's so ridiculous they keep cheating.

Yes. Referees place the ball....you trying to tell me a LB
has a better feel for the ball than a line judge who handles the football a thousand times a season can't?

[Bugeater]

just stupid.

First. NFL should be the ones that supplies the footballs.

Secondly, even if the NFL doesn't, then the balls checked should be checked during the anthem or like 10mins before kickoff.

Just dumb.
That's not going to stop them from messing with them once the game starts.

[RobBlake]

Well the thing is, the Pats didn't know they were going to end up rolling right over Indy when they screwed with the balls. Saying that it doesn't matter since they blew them out is like saying it doesn't matter that I drove home shitfaced drunk since I didn't kill anybody along the way.

Thing is. The balls air pressure only makes it easier to catch. The ball can still be defended. Still be intercepted. Ball can still be stripped. Ball carrier still be tackled.

It gave the pats a slight advantage.. shouldn't be punished to harshly

[Ming the Merciless]

Yes. Referees place the ball....you trying to tell me. Alb has a better feel for the ball than a line judge who handles the football a thousand times a game can't?

this is what doesnt make sense....

the refs handle it every snap......

so weird

[Hootie]

No idea, man...other than officials aren't really catching many balls from Tom Terrific

[chiefzilla1501]

exactly

I still dont see what ****ing difference it makes

if the refs checked their balls and handled the balls every snap

ffs

It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game. Even knowing this, the Pats should still go to the Super Bowl.

But I have no respect whatsoever for a team that would do that and surprised some people are okay with the Pats doing this.

[RobBlake]

That's not going to stop them from messing with them once the game starts.

Yeah, but it would be as easy. I mean.. how hard is it to mess with them 2 hrs pregame? NFL should just be the main ball handlers at all times

[Hootie]

Thing is. The balls air pressure only makes it easier to catch. The ball can still be defended. Still be intercepted. Ball can still be stripped. Ball carrier still be tackled.

It gave the pats a slight advantage.. shouldn't be punished to harshly
So if I just drink a little bit past .08 and drive anyways, I'm just breaking the law a little bit so if I kill someone just a tad it's ok cuz I barely broke the law

[ThaVirus]

I can't believe people don't think this is a big deal..

Anyway, for anyone that isn't a complete idiot, what should the punishment be? After Spygate it's gotta be pretty steep, yes?

[TimBone]

Well the thing is, the Pats didn't know they were going to end up rolling right over Indy when they screwed with the balls. Saying that it doesn't matter since they blew them out is like saying it doesn't matter that I drove home shitfaced drunk since I didn't kill anybody along the way.
Did you drive home shitfaced?

[chiefzilla1501]

I can't believe people don't think this is a big deal..

Anyway, for anyone that isn't a complete idiot, what should the punishment be? After Spygate it's gotta be pretty steep, yes?

Every QB on the roster has to be replaced with Matt Cassel

[RobBlake]

So if I just drink a little bit past .08 and drive anyways, I'm just breaking the law a little bit so if I kill someone just a tad it's ok cuz I barely broke the law

you think deflating balls is the same extremity as driving influenced, but not getting caught?

I would understand if the pats were somehow spiking the other teams drinks or giving themselves ped in their drink that it would compare in terms of "extremes" but deflated balls? c'mon son.

[Ming the Merciless]

But I have no respect whatsoever for a team that would do that and surprised some people are okay with the Pats doing this.

I'm not Ok with them tampering balls AFTER a check.

I am perfectly OK with them preparing 36 balls (as per the NFL rules I read for outdoor games) and letting the refs inspect them...and if they clear the balls, game on...if not, adjust inflation etc...


It all depends on WHEN the tampering was done IMO.


If they prepared balls like EVERY team does, and the refs OK'd the balls...then its on the refs...not the PATS i.m.o.

If they tampered with them after the check.....thats different story....

[Ming the Merciless]

I swear there is a mistake in this reporting....because they shouldve prepared 36 balls and set aside 12 for just kicking

according to the rule blurb earlier in thread...

nothing makes sense

[RobBlake]

I swear there is a mistake in this reporting....because they shouldve prepared 36 balls and set aside 12 for just kicking

according to the rule blurb earlier in thread...

nothing makes sense

it really doesn't make sense.

[Bugeater]

Did you drive home shitfaced?
HEY I SAID I DIDN'T KILL ANYONE GODDAMNIT

[TimBone]

I can't believe people don't think this is a big deal..

Anyway, for anyone that isn't a complete idiot, what should the punishment be? After Spygate it's gotta be pretty steep, yes?
Yeah...I dont agree that it should be a slap on the wrist. It doesnt matter if it was just a slight advantage. Cheating is cheating.

Since we cant follow Clay's wonderful suggestion and ban them to the CFL for three years, I say fine the hell out of them and take away some major top end draft picks. They have a history, ya know.

Also, officially put the asterisk to their SB wins.

[chiefzilla1501]

you think deflating balls is the same extremity as driving influenced, but not getting caught?

I would understand if the pats were somehow spiking the other teams drinks or giving themselves ped in their drink that it would compare in terms of "extremes" but deflated balls? c'mon son.

I think the point is... it's one thing to get pulled over and you accidentally had a tail light out. It's another to get pulled over knowing you did something wrong.

It doesn't sound like the Pats can play the innocent card here. It seems like they knew they were breaking the rules and did it anyway. And this would be a much smaller deal if they weren't repeat offenders.

[TimBone]

I'm not Ok with them tampering balls AFTER a check.

I am perfectly OK with them preparing 36 balls (as per the NFL rules I read for outdoor games) and letting the refs inspect them...and if they clear the balls, game on...if not, adjust inflation etc...


It all depends on WHEN the tampering was done IMO.


If they prepared balls like EVERY team does, and the refs OK'd the balls...then its on the refs...not the PATS i.m.o.

If they tampered with them after the check.....thats different story....
Yep on all dat

[chiefzilla1501]

Yeah...I dont agree that it should be a slap on the wrist. It doesnt matter if it was just a slight advantage. Cheating is cheating.

Since we cant follow Clay's wonderful suggestion and ban them to the CFL for three years, I say fine the hell out of them and take away some major top end draft picks. They have a history, ya know.

Also, officially put the asterisk to their SB wins.

In Roger Goodell's wonderful world of "eeny meeny miney penalize" that will never happen. If I'm the Saints, I demand that any coaches with knowledge of this be suspended for several games next season.

[TimBone]

HEY I SAID I DIDN'T KILL ANYONE GODDAMNIT
Consider the matter settled.

[wazu]

3 First Rounders, Belichick banished from NFL for life, $10 million fine.

[Ming the Merciless]

wait they discovered this at half-time

The game officials discovered at halftime that footballs used in the first half were under-inflated, testing each ball twice with different gauges, according (https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/557759466108911616) to Ben Volin of The Boston Globe.http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/20/new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-investigation

[Ming the Merciless]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/20/new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-investigation

and footballs must remain under supervision of the referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant shortly before the start of the game.

[RobBlake]

I think the point is... it's one thing to get pulled over and you accidentally had a tail light out. It's another to get pulled over knowing you did something wrong.

It doesn't sound like the Pats can play the innocent card here. It seems like they knew they were breaking the rules and did it anyway. And this would be a much smaller deal if they weren't repeat offenders.

yeah i understand.. but i've watched seahags purposely go for niner oline/dline guys knees.. and nothing is done about it.. not a big deal but pats are the worst cheaters haha always gettin caught

[Ming the Merciless]

Here is another angle...

sudden cold can cause deflation of 20% PSI (warm inside air, inflated...then taken outside)

13-14 PSI

minus 20% (2.6-2.8)

=

11ish PSI

[RobBlake]

3 First Rounders, Belichick banished from NFL for life, $10 million fine.

:drool:

[TribalElder]

Here is another angle...

sudden cold can cause deflation of 20% PSI (warm inside air, inflated...then taken outside)

13-14 PSI

minus 20% (2.6-2.8)

=

11ish PSI

Didn't happen to the colts, they must use cheap balls in New England

[Rain Man]

wait they discovered this at half-time

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/20/new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-investigation

It was 17-7 at halftime, and then the Patriots scored 21 points in the third to go up 38-7. Maybe it was the Colts who deflated the balls in the first half.

[tk13]

Here is another angle...

sudden cold can cause deflation of 20% PSI (warm inside air, inflated...then taken outside)

13-14 PSI

minus 20% (2.6-2.8)

=

11ish PSI

It was 50 degrees outside though.

[Ming the Merciless]

Didn't happen to the colts, they must use cheap balls in New England

wjat was the psi of the colts balls at the time of the check and then at half time?

[RobBlake]

Here is another angle...

sudden cold can cause deflation of 20% PSI (warm inside air, inflated...then taken outside)

13-14 PSI

minus 20% (2.6-2.8)

=

11ish PSI

now the question is.. did the colts suffer loss of PSI? i imagine most balls under go deflation throughout a game

[Ming the Merciless]

It was 50 degrees outside though.

hmm

welp there goes that theory LOL

[Ming the Merciless]

if they discovered this at halftime, and removed some balls from the game....

did they inflate some balls at half time??

this shit is nuts

[GoChargers]

3 First Rounders, Belichick banished from NFL for life, $10 million fine.

And the Colts should be on a flight to Glendale. Either that or have the Colts and Ravens play to determine who gets to take the Cheatriots' place.

[unlurking]

this is what doesnt make sense....

the refs handle it every snap......

so weird
Ever have the wind knocked out of you falling on a football? Or a basketball? Or a soccer ball? You'd notice the pressure difference.

Low pressure is more noticeable when external high pressure is applied. A big dude like a linebacker falling on the ball is going to notice pressure differences that a referee will not from normal handling. Just picking it up, holding it, and setting it down again likely doesn't put enough pressure on it to be noticeable. Think about it. The minimum regulation PSI is 12.5, and it was under inflated by 2. Do you normally exert 10+ PSI when handling objects?

It's not like the refs give it a squeeze test every time they touch the ball. On the other hand, players do. When the fall on it. When it hits the hands from pass/kick. When it's kicked. These are the times when low pressure would be noticed. Not just holding it.

[unlurking]

3 First Rounders, Belichick banished from NFL for life, $10 million fine.
Screw that. Hit 'em where it really hurts. Force them to hire back Pioli and Cassel.

[DaneMcCloud]

And the Colts should be on a flight to Glendale. Either that or have the Colts and Ravens play to determine who gets to take the Cheatriots' place.

:facepalm:

The Patriots ran over the Colts. Destroyed them. The NFL could wipe the passing stats from the game and the Patriots still beat them handily.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think it matters one bit. The Patriots destroyed the Colts at the line of scrimmage and couldn't stop Blount. Whether or not the ball was deflated to make it easier to catch and throw is irrelevant.

[Pepe Silvia]

If the Pats win the SB they should have to get a trophy of a deflated football instead of the Lombardi, that's a fair punishment.

[DaneMcCloud]

If there were 11 deflated footballs used each and every time the Patriots had the ball offensively, and the Colts footballs weren't deflated, why didn't the referees take notice each time they touched the ball?

[TimBone]

I don't think it matters one bit. The Patriots destroyed the Colts at the line of scrimmage and couldn't stop Blount. Whether or not the ball was deflated to make it easier to catch and throw is irrelevant.
I dont think that matters though. The message to send is not that cheating is okay as long as you didnt need it in the end.

[unlurking]

If there were 11 deflated footballs used each and every time the Patriots had the ball offensively, and the Colts footballs weren't deflated, why didn't the referees take notice each time they touched the ball?
Because picking up a ball and setting it down again doesn't come close exerting enough pressure? Think about it. 10+ psi on the inside. How much pressure do you think you are applying from the outside when you pick it up?

[GoChargers]

:facepalm:

The Patriots ran over the Colts. Destroyed them. The NFL could wipe the passing stats from the game and the Patriots still beat them handily.

Doesn't matter. That franchise needs to be hammered to the point where they'll never even think about cheating again. They need the NFL equivalent of the NCAA death penalty. It's the only way they'll ever stop doing it.

[RobBlake]

Doesn't matter. That franchise needs to be hammered to the point where they'll never even think about cheating again. They need the NFL equivalent of the NCAA death penalty. It's the only way they'll ever stop doing it.

exaggerating

[RobBlake]

also, if they found that halftime.. then erase the first half offensive production.

[chiefzilla1501]

So here's the question...
If the Pats barely beat the Colts, how would people feel about this?

[DaneMcCloud]

So here's the question...
If the Pats barely beat the Colts, how would people feel about this?

But they didn't. They've dominated the Colts the past three times they've played them.

This is a non-issue to me.

[Dave Lane]

I call bs....ball boys on the field...experienced line judges who handle balls on a continuous basis didn't notice, yet a LB catches an INT and figures it out?

Face it NFL...the Patriots are Just that WElLL COACHED,....

You can't help but be all jealous of a team who keeps plugging in guys year in and year out and continue to win when it matters most. When it's Denver cheating its ok because you aren't trying unless you do...but now we care?

I can't believe I'm going to say this but... This.

[DaneMcCloud]

Stevie is right: This is on the officials and the NFL.

[TimBone]

But they didn't. They've dominated the Colts the past three times they've played them.

This is a non-issue to me.
I dont understand this logic. Prior to the game, they didnt know they were going to stomp them they way the did. If its true that they cheated, the score doesnt matter. Cheating is cheating.

I have absolutely nothing against the Pats, and was rooting for them on Sunday, but punishment is in order if the cheating is true.

[chiefzilla1501]

But they didn't. They've dominated the Colts the past three times they've played them.

This is a non-issue to me.

Fair point that it may be as much on the refs... maybe entirely. But if NE is found to have intentionally cheated, then it shouldn't matter if it affected the outcome or not. Cheating is cheating regardless of the score.

[unlurking]

I can't believe I'm going to say this but... This.
Come on people. It's not that hard. A football weighs less than one pound. Do you really think your grip is applying enough pressure to notice a difference between 10.5 PSI and 12.5 PSI? This is not something you would notice unless you were looking for it.

Another example. How many times have you gotten a basketball out and not noticed a low pressure issue until dribbling and notice it doesn't bounce right? It's because you don't apply that much pressure when you grip things just to pick them up or hold them.

[L.A. Chieffan]

How does a deflated ball create an advantage? Are Brady's hands small?

[DaneMcCloud]

I dont understand this logic. Prior to the game, they didnt know they were going to stomp them they way the did. If its true that they cheated, the score doesnt matter. Cheating is cheating.

I have absolutely nothing against the Pats, and was rooting for them on Sunday, but punishment is in order if the cheating is true.

I'll use a analogy that may make sense and may not.

I have 19 guitars and basses that I record on a regular basis. I've had them set up by a Master Luthier to be exactly as I specify: The E string can be no more than .75mm off the first fret. That's mandatory.

Now, even in a temperature controlled environment, I can pick up an instrument and immediately feel if it's different. It makes it so that I focus on the feel of the instrument instead of the piece of music I'm recording. It's distracting and before I know it, I've broken out the tools and wasted 30 minutes of my day getting it right.

Now, if I can feel a .01 mm difference in a guitar or bass, how is it that an NFL Referee or Umpire, both of whom come in contact with an NFL Football countless times before and during the game, can't tell if there's a 32 oz difference in the ball?

Personally, that tells me that it's not a significant difference and therefore, isn't a big deal.

[unlurking]

Stevie is right: This is on the officials and the NFL.
What the fuck?!

So I guess Taco was right and the US government is at fault for 9/11 since they didn't stop it.

Wow.

[unlurking]

How does a deflated ball create an advantage? Are Brady's hands small?
Easier to grip under higher pressure. Less drops and fumbles.

[Hootie]

It didn't end up effecting the integrity of that specific game. Totally agree. However, if it was blatant cheating by the Patriots to try and gain an edge, even if it didn't end up mattering, punishment (and heavy punishment) is in store.

[DaneMcCloud]

What the fuck?!

So I guess Taco was right and the US government is at fault for 9/11 since they didn't stop it.

Wow.

Whose responsibility is it to check for abnormalities: The NFL and its referees or the NE Patriots?

[DaneMcCloud]

It didn't end up effecting the integrity of that specific game. Totally agree. However, if it was blatant cheating by the Patriots to try and gain an edge, even if it didn't end up mattering, punishment (and heavy punishment) is in store.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

I don't excuse the Patriots but I also don't excuse the refs.

[Hootie]

there was a monsoon for the game ... deflating the balls made them easier to grip and easier to catch in the rain

this has been discussed ad nauseam ... I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend

[unlurking]

It's funny the Pats defenders latest excuse is essentially that the NFL and it's officials are to blame for not catching the cheaters in time. LMAO
No shit. I don't know what the fuck is going on with people?

[DaneMcCloud]

So I guess Taco was right and the US government is at fault for 9/11 since they didn't stop it.

Wow.

:spock:

[Hootie]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

I don't excuse the Patriots but I also don't excuse the refs.

I'm kind of tired of that, though ...

I kind of agree, as well.

But then why did we just spend an entire decade on a witch hunt ruining guys like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens etc etc etc because they were cheating?

people were throwing syringes at Bonds while he was playing

it was basically life ruining ... and half of the players were doing it

yet, some got their lives ruined, and others didn't

I don't buy that mantra anymore. If you cheat, get caught ... you pay the price.

If New England is to found to have blatantly cheated, they need to pay the price. If the officials didn't check the balls before the game, they need to pay the price. I mean, that's the bottom line if you ask me.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's funny the Pats defenders latest excuse is essentially that the NFL and it's officials are to blame for not catching the cheaters in time. LMAO

It's the OFFICIAL'S and the NFL's job to maintain the "integrity" of the game.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm kind of tired of that, though ...

I kind of agree, as well.

But then why did we just spend an entire decade on a witch hunt ruining guys like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens etc etc etc because they were cheating?

people were throwing syringes at Bonds while he was playing

it was basically life ruining ... and half of the players were doing it

yet, some got their lives ruined, and others didn't

I don't buy that mantra anymore. If you cheat, get caught ... you pay the price.

If New England is to found to have blatantly cheated, they need to pay the price. If the officials didn't check the balls before the game, they need to pay the price. I mean, that's the bottom line if you ask me.

I agree. MLB looked the other way and allowed it to happen, then later said "No you d'n't!". It was nonsense.

But if the NFL really cared about the "Integrity of the Game", how difficult would it be to have a ref check the balls before game time?

[Hootie]

11 of the 12 balls were all exactly under-inflated by the same amount...

so either the Patriots cheated after the balls were inspected ... or the Patriots cheated, knowing the balls weren't going to be properly inspected

if it's the latter? Well, I guess I'd be more ok with it.

[unlurking]

Whose responsibility is it to check for abnormalities: The NFL and its referees or the NE Patriots?
JFC this is stupid. They checked pre-game. Would you prefer an extra 2 minute timeout before each drive while they check all the balls again? This is absolute bullshit and you know it.

For someone who has had massive hissie fits about people pirating media you should just shut the fuck up since you didn't catch them.

[Hootie]

I agree. MLB looked the other way and allowed it to happen, then later said "No you d'n't!". It was nonsense.

But if the NFL really cared about the "Integrity of the Game", how difficult would it be to have a ref check the balls before game time?

well that's what I need to find out before I jump to any conclusions

if the refs didn't check the balls, it's more on them, for sure

I still think it's a pretty seedy move, but I'd be more apt to just laugh at how much of a genius Belichick is for knowing the balls he submitted before a monsoon game weren't going to be properly checked by a lazy official

if he really pays that much attention to detail ... I mean ... is it any wonder the Pats win every fucking year?

[TimBone]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

I don't excuse the Patriots but I also don't excuse the refs.
You absolutely are excusing the Patriots though.

[WakkaWakka]

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/Nx6BSBi' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/Nx6BSBi.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

[unlurking]

:spock:
Your logic is to blame enforcement, and not the perpetrators. That is absolutely fucked up.

[eDave]

Don't fuck with the ball. The game is named after it FFS.

[TimBone]

11 of the 12 balls were all exactly under-inflated by the same amount...

so either the Patriots cheated after the balls were inspected ... or the Patriots cheated, knowing the balls weren't going to be properly inspected

if it's the latter? Well, I guess I'd be more ok with it.
Yeah....I would like the NFL to come out and say whether the refs failed to do their pregame inspection. Thats a huge part of the equation, IMO. If thats the case, then I'll go along with Dane and put it off on the refs.

[unlurking]

You absolutely are excusing the Patriots though.
Unless he believes it was an accident, then yes. He most definitely is promoting cheating. Apparently the only thing the Pats did wrong was get caught.

[GoChargers]

Yeah....I would like the NFL to come out and say whether the refs failed to do their pregame inspection. Thats a huge part of the equation, IMO. If thats the case, then I'll go along with Dane and put it off on the refs.

Let's be real, given how the NFL bungled the Ray Rice thing, Bountygate, etc., if the final verdict is that the refs are somehow responsible, there's a good chance that they're just being thrown under the bus by the league to "protect the shield."

[Hootie]

since the Chiefs beat the Pats and the Seahawks ... the only reasonable thing to do is have the Chiefs replace the Pats in the Super Bowl as punishment

[DaneMcCloud]

LMAO

[DementedLogic]

It really comes down to when the balls were deflated. Aaron Rodgers has admitted that he prefers an over inflated ball for throwing, and that he will bump up the pressure in their balls and hope the ref doesn't notice during inspection. If the Refs failed to do their job, its on them.

[TimBone]

since the Chiefs beat the Pats and the Seahawks ... the only reasonable thing to do is have the Chiefs replace the Pats in the Super Bowl as punishment
Why should we Chiefs fans be punished?

[eDave]

It really comes down to when the balls were deflated. Aaron Rodgers has admitted that he prefers an over inflated ball for throwing, and that he will bump up the pressure in their balls and hope the ref doesn't notice during inspection. If the Refs failed to do their job, its on them.

Demented logic indeed.

[DaneMcCloud]

You absolutely are excusing the Patriots though.

The NFL tests for PED's, steroids and illegal substances along with the height, weight, length and speed of its players. They have Instant Replay of scoring plays and challenge plays, which are checked onsite and overseen in New York.

Yet, their rules for the football itself goes unchecked in a Conference Championship, and I am supposed to feel anger or that justice hasn't been served or that an injustice has occurred?

[SPchief]

The NFL tests for PED's, steroids and illegal substances along with the height, weight, length and speed of its players. They have Instant Replay of scoring plays and challenge plays, which are checked onsite and overseen in New York.

Yet, their rules for the football itself goes unchecked in a Conference Championship, and I am supposed to feel anger or that justice hasn't been served or that an injustice has occurred?

So the logic is to blame the NFL for not following their procedure for checking balls and not the Pats for doing the cheating knowing the NFL wouldn't be checking the balls?

[Jerm]

At this rate, I'm gonna be let down that if they don't announce in the next few days that Belichick has been spiking the Gatorade at Gillette.

[DaneMcCloud]

So the logic is to blame the NFL for not following their procedure for checking balls and not the Pats for doing the cheating knowing the NFL wouldn't be checking the balls?

The NFL is checking for cheating at every turn.

But they don't check the actual ball itself? Something so easy? Something that doesn't cost millions of dollars?

How is that not their fault?

[DaneMcCloud]

JFC this is stupid. They checked pre-game. Would you prefer an extra 2 minute timeout before each drive while they check all the balls again? This is absolute bullshit and you know it.

For someone who has had massive hissie fits about people pirating media you should just shut the fuck up since you didn't catch them.

:shake:

[SPchief]

The NFL is checking for cheating at every turn.

But they don't check the actual ball itself? Something so easy? Something that doesn't cost millions of dollars?

How is that not their fault?

So we're gonna exonerate the Pats for actually doing the cheating?

[DaneMcCloud]

So we're gonna exonerate the Pats for actually doing the cheating?

I'm not exonerating anyone but I think it's the NFL's responsibility to make sure these things don't happen.

The subject isn't illegal taping or steroids or HGH. It's the actual BALL itself.

Doesn't the Plate Umpire check the ball in MLB?

[SPchief]

I'm not exonerating anyone but I think it's the NFL's responsibility to make these things don't happen.

The subject isn't illegal taping or steroids or HGH. It's the actual BALL itself.

Doesn't the Plate Umpire check the ball in MLB?

Yes, supposedly they checked the balls 2 hours before the games. THEN the Pats allegedly tampered with them. I'm sure we'll get a rule change. But that doesn't erase the fact that the Pats themselves were the ones who cheated.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yes, supposedly they checked the balls 2 hours before the games. THEN the Pats allegedly tampered with them. I'm sure we'll get a rule change. But that doesn't erase the fact that the Pats themselves were the ones who cheated.
Two hours? Is that the rule? If so, the NFL isn't concerned with their actual football.

I'm in no way, shape or form siding with the Patriots.

But, it must be pointed out that the NFL goes to great lengths to procure the largest TV contracts in TV history, move their game overseas, televise their Rookie Combine, Three Day Draft, games in preseason along with Sunday, Monday and Thursay night. They have a show every single morning on the NFL Network.

They bust and suspend players for marijuana (which is now legal in many states), alcohol, PED's, DUI's and wearing the "wrong" socks. They don't give a crap if a star player knocks out his wife, until it's caught on film, but they still don't care until TMZ pushes the right buttons. Ray MacDonald and Greg Hardy aren't suspended until AFTER Ray Rice's video emerges, even after Hardy threw his girlfriend on a CACHE of guns and threatend to murder her.

The NFL doesn't care about anything unless it affects their bottom line.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Now, if I can feel a .01 mm difference in a guitar or bass, how is it that an NFL Referee or Umpire, both of whom come in contact with an NFL Football countless times before and during the game, can't tell if there's a 32 oz difference in the ball?

Personally, that tells me that it's not a significant difference and therefore, isn't a big deal.


Uh... Two pounds of air PRESSURE does not equal two pounds of weight on the ball.

Cheating is cheating and should be punished.

[mdchiefsfan]

Losing to the Chiefs made them decide to start cheating

Enough was enough LMAO

[Sassy Squatch]

Did under inflation make it easier for Blount to stick the ball up their asses? I get that it's the principle of the matter, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome too much.

[Lex Luthor]

I'll use a analogy that may make sense and may not.

I have 19 guitars and basses that I record on a regular basis. I've had them set up by a Master Luthier to be exactly as I specify: The E string can be no more than .75mm off the first fret. That's mandatory.

Now, even in a temperature controlled environment, I can pick up an instrument and immediately feel if it's different. It makes it so that I focus on the feel of the instrument instead of the piece of music I'm recording. It's distracting and before I know it, I've broken out the tools and wasted 30 minutes of my day getting it right.

Now, if I can feel a .01 mm difference in a guitar or bass, how is it that an NFL Referee or Umpire, both of whom come in contact with an NFL Football countless times before and during the game, can't tell if there's a 32 oz difference in the ball?

Personally, that tells me that it's not a significant difference and therefore, isn't a big deal.
:facepalm:

That is just about the worst analogy I've ever seen. You can pick up an instrument and immediately feel that it's different because you're an expert on playing the instrument and you know exactly how it's supposed to feel.

Would you expect your maid to be able to pick it up and immediately feel that it's different?

If you wound up wasting 30 minutes of your day getting it right because the instrument was wrong, and the maid had picked up the instrument and handed it to you, WOULD YOU BLAME THE MAID?

[SPchief]

Did under inflation make it easier for Blount to stick the ball up their asses? I get that it's the principle of the matter, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome too much.

For the 5 billionth time, that's not the point.

[Fire Me Boy!]

For the 5 billionth time, that's not the point.


You don't get it. Cheating is OK as long as you smash your opponent.

;)

[Mr. Flopnuts]

What a clusterfuck end to a clusterfuck season. Your move, Goodell.

[Lex Luthor]

Did under inflation make it easier for Blount to stick the ball up their asses? I get that it's the principle of the matter, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome too much.
When I originally heard about this, my reaction was that people should just shut the **** up about it, because it obviously was not the reason why the Patriots blew out the Colts.

But the fact that 11 out of 12 balls were apparently tampered with has caused me to change my mind. Given the Patriots' history, it's clear that (to use an NCAA term) there is a complete lack of institutionalized control. They look for every edge they can get, and they knowingly and deliberately break the rules. They need to be given a strong incentive to stop doing this. The best way to do that is to strip some draft choices from them. Make it hurt.

College teams lose scholarships when they break the rules. If they break too many rules, they are banned from postseason competition. Hell, do the same thing here. Take away some draft choices and put them on probation. Tell them that if they break other rules, they will be banned from the playoffs for a year or two. THAT would get their attention.

[Mr. Derek]

The fact that the Patriots steam-rolled doesn't matter at all. I'm surprised so many of you bring that up.
What would have happen if the Colts won? I guess in that case it doesn't matter as well since "they lost anyway"...?
By that logic, if you get caught for cheating you should only be punished if you won by 1-6 points.

In most, if not all, sports organizations around the world if you get caught cheating you forefeet the game.

[Katipan]

In most, if not all, sports organizations around the world if you get caught cheating you forefeet the game.

If there's video evidence of someone in the Pats locker room deflating the balls, I'm good with a forfeit.

Anything short of a smoking gun, just take the draft picks.

[Fire Me Boy!]

forefeet


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/17879172c332565a7893d5e920b30646.jpg

[Kman34]

I have a question for Ramjackson...If the NFL is rigged why would the Pats feel the need to under inflate the footballs... You can't tell me its to create controversy. I wouldn't think the Pats would want the negative press..

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I said it in the other thread, I'll say it in this one. Belichick should be Pete Rosed. I understand our society in large part has diminished the value of honor and integrity, but that shouldn't make it less important to an organization that has placed an emphasis on those qualities for decades. Belichick has proven repeatedly he has no value on those 2 qualities and he has now tarnished them for the entire league. Justice should be swift, and lethal. Let one of the assistants coach them in the Super Bowl.

[Katipan]

I think we should let Pete Rose coach the Super Bowl.

[notorious]

Have any of you thrown and caught a full ball vs. an underinflated ball?


There is a pretty big difference.

[mr. tegu]

The Mythbusters have the potential for a great show from this.

[KCUnited]

Have any of you thrown and caught a full ball vs. an underinflated ball?


There is a pretty big difference.

I can top 80 yards in the air when I pull out 2 lbs of air pressure.

[BucEyedPea]

Damn 2 lbs psi under minimum specs is quiet a bit. There isnt much volume in a football so I would think compared to a car tire it would be like 5 to 8 lbs under inflated. Why the ref that spots the ball before each snap wouldn't notice this? I know 2 lbs doesn't seem much but I thing it is. When I get home tomorrow sounds like a good experiment. Inflate my football to 14 lbs then deflate to 12 see if its noticeable.

The refs hands are on the ball during the game, so I am wondering the same thing. Investigation, isn't really done. They don't know who did it, why or if there''s any other factor that contributed.

[BucEyedPea]

The fact that the Patriots steam-rolled doesn't matter at all. I'm surprised so many of you bring that up.
What would have happen if the Colts won? I guess in that case it doesn't matter as well since "they lost anyway"...?
By that logic, if you get caught for cheating you should only be punished if you won by 1-6 points.

In most, if not all, sports organizations around the world if you get caught cheating you forefeet the game.

It was Brady's lowest passing game. He was intercepted too. They mainly ran the ball. Plus, who held the Colt's to 7 points? That had nothing to do with the ball.

[Katipan]

I don't think whether they won or lost really matters. Or by how much.

[Iconic]

What will the punishment be? We can't be certain this is the first time the Pats have done this so you have to wonder if they even deserve going to the SB at all.

I don't like the Colts. Quite frankly I ****ing despise them... but letting the Pats play in the SB over the Colts this year will be nothing short of the NFL perpetuating cheating.

Draft picks won't be enough this time. There must be blood.

[BucEyedPea]

According to the report, the league sources say the NFL determined 11 of the 12 footballs used by the Patriots were under-inflated by two pounds per square inch each. Per NFL rules, footballs are required to be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/20/7864117/patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-new-england-bill-belichick

Discuss.

I don't see "cheating" in that headline or report. It says they found deflated balls true. But it's still on-going. Now, what needs to be known is who did it, intent or if any other factor.

[WhawhaWhat]

I don't see "cheating" in that headline or report. It says they found deflated balls true. But it's still on-going. Now, what needs to be known is who did it, intent or if any other factor.

They're still trying to figure out who the fall guy will be.

[BucEyedPea]

They're still trying to figure out who the fall guy will be.

Conjecture.

[Red Dawg]

Kick the pats out of the super bowl


for the lulz

I wish they would. That would be extremely appropriate and justified for cheating once again. How many chances do theg get before something drastic happens.

[Amnorix]

It seems that NFL ball manipulation is sort of like baseball manipulation, which nobody cared about until they did.

Aaron Rodgers admitted that he attempted to overinflate the ball. Nobody cared.

The Vikings and Jaguars were caught warming the ball (also illegal). Nobody cared, adn the NFL said "hey, stop that".

Buccaneers winning quarterback Brad Johnson admitted that he paid $7,500 for ball boys to manipulate the ball.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/1/21/7865605/brad-johnson-tampa-bay-buccaneers-super-bowl-deflategate

Patriots MAY have deflated the balls (the balls were underinflated, but the how/why is not yet resolved), and everyone is demanding that heads roll.

The problem, of course, is that reality doesn't matter -- perception is all that matters now. The Patriots are no benefit of the doubt from anyone (Cheatriots! Spygate!) and are widely hated for having so much success for so long. Belichick having the personality and loveability of a turnip doesn't help of course.

The rulebook provides for the punishment here -- $25,000 or whatever else the Commish says. It's the same as for wearing the wrong color cleats. But hey, Cheatriots! And it's affecting the NFL's image right before the Super Bowl, and talking heads need to fill two weeks of time, so I do expect heads will roll -- either Patriots heads or ref heads.

And they may lose at least one fan for life, since this all seems quite absurd to me.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-somebodys-going-down-deflategate

[Katipan]

And they may lose at least one fan for life, since this all seems quite absurd to me.

You can be a Chiefs fan then, since that's our tagline.

[Amnorix]

I wish they would. That would be extremely appropriate and justified for cheating once again. How many chances do theg get before something drastic happens.

Should Aaron Rodgers have been kicked out of the playoffs? He admitted he cheated by overinflating balls. Should the Super Bowl he won be stripped from him?

[BucEyedPea]

Should Aaron Rodgers have been kicked out of the playoffs? He admitted he cheated by overinflating balls. Should the Super Bowl he won be stripped from him?

No, only the Patriots should be vilified and punished and to a greater degree.

[BucEyedPea]

NFL executive VP of football operations Troy Vincent, speaking on Pro Football Talk Live on NBC Sports radio Tuesday, said the investigation should be coming to a close soon.

"We’re hoping to wrap that up in the next two or three days," Vincent said. "The team is in place in New England now interviewing staff members."

They're looking for a "who." They had better find intent.

[Katipan]

Would it make you feel better if Aaron Rodgers cheated a bunch of times with different balls?

[Amnorix]

And if not messing with grip/handling is so important, why are sticky gloves allowed?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8266a9c1/article/who-needs-stickum-when-youve-got-sticky-gloves

Or do you think it's just a coincidence Beckham was wearing gloves for that ridiculous catch?

The answer, of course, is simple. It all comes down to $$$, and highlight reel catches are good for the NFL.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/ap_aptopix_cowboys_giants_football_68976850.jpg

[BucEyedPea]

Would it make you feel better if Aaron Rodgers cheated a bunch of times with different balls?

To be honest, nothing makes it feel better.

[MagicHef]

Should Aaron Rodgers have been kicked out of the playoffs? He admitted he cheated by overinflating balls. Should the Super Bowl he won be stripped from him?

He admitted to having balls over inflated before the refs checked them. The main theory in this case is that the balls were changed after the refs checked them. There's a lot of difference in those two scenarios for me.

[Amnorix]

Would it make you feel better if Aaron Rodgers cheated a bunch of times with different balls?


No. What I want to know, honestly, is (1) did the refs check the pressure, (2) if they did, did the Patriots do anything to manipulate the ball pressure AFTER the refs checked, and (3) did the Patriots do anything that isn't done widely around the NFL.

In sports, there are plenty of "wink, nod" rules that aren't really strictly enforced. Nobody knew about ball pressure until now, but everyone is ready to hang the Patriots from the tallest tree. So far, though, I've seen alot of stories by different quarterbacks about manipulating the ball in various ways, including a Super Bowl winning quarterback admitting he paid $7,500 for ball boys to manipulate balls prior to going out and winning the Super Bowl.

To me, one serious possibility is that the Patriots didn't do anythign that ALOT of teams do, in which case the correct result isn't punishment, but rather the NFL announcing they are going to start strictly enforcing the rule, and/or change their procedures to avoid manipulation (check pressure at halftime of each game, or the NFL controls the balls the whole way through, which I understand quarterback would disapprove of).

[AndChiefs]

It seems that NFL ball manipulation is sort of like baseball manipulation, which nobody cared about until they did.

Aaron Rodgers admitted that he attempted to overinflate the ball. Nobody cared.

The Vikings and Jaguars were caught warming the ball (also illegal). Nobody cared, adn the NFL said "hey, stop that".

Buccaneers winning quarterback Brad Johnson admitted that he paid $7,500 for ball boys to manipulate the ball.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/1/21/7865605/brad-johnson-tampa-bay-buccaneers-super-bowl-deflategate

Patriots MAY have deflated the balls (the balls were underinflated, but the how/why is not yet resolved), and everyone is demanding that heads roll.

The problem, of course, is that reality doesn't matter -- perception is all that matters now. The Patriots are no benefit of the doubt from anyone (Cheatriots! Spygate!) and are widely hated for having so much success for so long. Belichick having the personality and loveability of a turnip doesn't help of course.

The rulebook provides for the punishment here -- $25,000 or whatever else the Commish says. It's the same as for wearing the wrong color cleats. But hey, Cheatriots! And it's affecting the NFL's image right before the Super Bowl, and talking heads need to fill two weeks of time, so I do expect heads will roll -- either Patriots heads or ref heads.

And they may lose at least one fan for life, since this all seems quite absurd to me.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-somebodys-going-down-deflategate

This is equivalent to the grade school, "But Johnny did it too!" defense.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I don't see "cheating" in that headline or report. It says they found deflated balls true. But it's still on-going. Now, what needs to be known is who did it, intent or if any other factor.

I absolutely agree with this. They need to find proof before acting on any of it.

[BucEyedPea]

I was looking for that picture last night of Gronk spiking the ball into the ground with water splattering up. I was wondering if it affected the ball. But I couldn't find it.

However, while googling, I found this.


"When Gronk scores... he spikes the ball and he deflates the ball," Brady said on WEEI after beating the Jets in November 2011.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2015/01/report_patriots_may_have_deflated_footballs_for_af.html


Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers told a Milwaukee radio station Tuesday he likes an over-inflated ball instead because his hands are large.

[Amnorix]

He admitted to having balls over inflated before the refs checked them. The main theory in this case is that the balls were changed after the refs checked them. There's a lot of difference in those two scenarios for me.

errr...IF there is any difference.

It sounds like Rodgers overinflates and then sees if the refs check, and deflate. So he is cheating, and then seeing if he gets caught and the situation fixed.

Did the Patriots deflate and then see if the refs check, and inflate? Same thing except in the other direction, so to speak?

And do other teams/QBs do this also, or are the Patriots the only one. So far I have THREE other teams THIS YEAR admitting or being caught manipulating the ball in a way that is not technically legal. And yet the Patriots alone are the ones who must pay? How does that make sense?

We don't even know if the PSI was tested in an 80 degree room, and then the balls deflated on their own when they went out into the 50 degree gametime temperature.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

The reason it was caught was after an interception the colts defender told the coach or equip guy who told gm who told officiating who checked the pats balls

It would have went unnoticed otherwise

But how does the ref marking the ball not notice? Inside job.

[BucEyedPea]

Oh the picture I was looking for. It was just the pic with no copy when I first saw it.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7xDxzGCIAIwhzk.jpg

[notorious]

Mythbusters already did a show on punting balls filled with helium.

[Amnorix]

This is equivalent to the grade school, "But Johnny did it too!" defense.


No, the point is nobody paid any attention to it until NOW. When others do X, then nothign happens. When the Patriots do X, then HEADS MUST ROLL.

It honestly seems to me that this is probably something people have looked the other way on for years. Quarterbacks are allowed to EXTENSIVELY manipulate balls prior to games. If the NFL wants to have firm rules in place, and enforce them, then they should probably say so rather than backtracking and selectively punishing one team for doing what many teams do (at least three others, so far, apparently).

This all assumes, of course, that the Patriots actually DID anything, which has not yet been established.

[BucEyedPea]

So now we know, the Patriots offensive plan is to deflate footballs. Now everyone's gonna try it!

[petegz28]

I don't see how they were cheating. Tom Brady had to throw the same deflated football that Andrew Luck did, right?

No

[Mr. Flopnuts]

No. What I want to know, honestly, is (1) did the refs check the pressure, (2) if they did, did the Patriots do anything to manipulate the ball pressure AFTER the refs checked, and (3) did the Patriots do anything that isn't done widely around the NFL.

In sports, there are plenty of "wink, nod" rules that aren't really strictly enforced. Nobody knew about ball pressure until now, but everyone is ready to hang the Patriots from the tallest tree. So far, though, I've seen alot of stories by different quarterbacks about manipulating the ball in various ways, including a Super Bowl winning quarterback admitting he paid $7,500 for ball boys to manipulate balls prior to going out and winning the Super Bowl.

To me, one serious possibility is that the Patriots didn't do anythign that ALOT of teams do, in which case the correct result isn't punishment, but rather the NFL announcing they are going to start strictly enforcing the rule, and/or change their procedures to avoid manipulation (check pressure at halftime of each game, or the NFL controls the balls the whole way through, which I understand quarterback would disapprove of).

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonnew-england-patriots&id=4776756&city=boston&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%22%7D

Patriots should be held accountable

By Mike Reiss | January 21, 2015 12:20:34 AM PST
ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen is reporting new information that adds important context to the New England Patriots' usage of deflated footballs.


Citing sources, Mortensen reports that of the 12 footballs weighed by officials before Sunday’s AFC Championship game, 11 of them came in under-inflated by two pounds of air (PSI) when weighed either after or during the Patriots’ 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts.

This information alters my outlook on the overall story.

Prior to this point, the feeling was that if one or two footballs came in under weight, it was going to be hard for the NFL to make a decisive ruling against the Patriots. But 11 of 12 footballs is pretty strong evidence that something was happening from the time officials inspected the footballs 2 hours, 15 minutes before the game and the actual game itself.

The Patriots, assuming the initial inspection of footballs by referee Walt Anderson and his crew was done correctly and that weather wasn't a factor, should be held accountable.

As I wrote in Tuesday’s Patriots mailbag, “There are specific rules that prohibit altering the ball after they have been checked by the officials 2 hours, 15 minutes before game time. If the Patriots (or any team, for that matter) are knowingly breaking those rules outside of the normal scope of what is accepted (e.g. New York Times story on Eli Manning; Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers acknowledging how he likes his footballs to feel), there is a price to pay.”

To be clear, more information is needed before any final judgment can be made on accountability. At this point, the fact 11 of 12 footballs came in underweight moves the story forward, and raises more questions as to how it happened.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

No, the point is nobody paid any attention to it until NOW. When others do X, then nothign happens. When the Patriots do X, then HEADS MUST ROLL.

It honestly seems to me that this is probably something people have looked the other way on for years. Quarterbacks are allowed to EXTENSIVELY manipulate balls prior to games. If the NFL wants to have firm rules in place, and enforce them, then they should probably say so rather than backtracking and selectively punishing one team for doing what many teams do (at least three others, so far, apparently).

This all assumes, of course, that the Patriots actually DID anything, which has not yet been established.

Those poor Patriots

[Katipan]

11 is a lot

Whatever happened... Happened a lot.

[BucEyedPea]

11 is a lot. Originally, it was reported as just being a few.

[blaise]

Doesn't matter. That franchise needs to be hammered to the point where they'll never even think about cheating again. They need the NFL equivalent of the NCAA death penalty. It's the only way they'll ever stop doing it.

Oh geez.

[Donger]

I read that Brady is on record as preferring to play with under-inflated balls. Has that been mentioned here yet?

[stonedstooge]

So if Cheatriot fans would have gotten steamrolled by the Colts and it was found that the Colts sideline had deflated the balls, their fans would say, oh, it's ok, they beat us fair and square. It wasn't even close. Yup, I believe that

[Skyy God]

I'd like to see Bellicheat suspended for the SB.

[MagicHef]

errr...IF there is any difference.

It sounds like Rodgers overinflates and then sees if the refs check, and deflate. So he is cheating, and then seeing if he gets caught and the situation fixed.

Did the Patriots deflate and then see if the refs check, and inflate? Same thing except in the other direction, so to speak?

And do other teams/QBs do this also, or are the Patriots the only one. So far I have THREE other teams THIS YEAR admitting or being caught manipulating the ball in a way that is not technically legal. And yet the Patriots alone are the ones who must pay? How does that make sense?

We don't even know if the PSI was tested in an 80 degree room, and then the balls deflated on their own when they went out into the 50 degree gametime temperature.

Yes, it is true that we don't know every detail of what happened yet, which is why my post contained the word "theory". If it comes out that the Patriots manipulated the balls after they were checked by the refs (which would make it different than every story you've tried to compare this to), how will you respond?

[BucEyedPea]

What I don't get is if a player who intercepted a ball could notice the ball feeling weird, pass it onto their equipment person, who passes it onto their coach who notifies the NFL in the booth, then how come no refs noticed it when they have their hands on the ball so often during a game?

If a team knows other players can tell, that the league has referees that hold the ball so often, then why bother? Seems too risky to be any advantage.

[Donger]

What I don't get is if a player who intercepted a ball could notice the ball feeling weird, pass it onto their equipment person, who passes it onto their coach who notifies the NFL in the booth, then how come no refs noticed it when they have their hands on the ball so often during a game?

If a team knows other players can tell, that the league has referees that hold the ball so often, then why bother? Seems too risky to be any advantage.

The difference would be that the player who intercepted it handled it with much more force during the interception than a ref just picking it up and carrying it.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I'd like to see Bellicheat suspended for the SB.

IF he's found culpable, anything less than a 1 year suspension effective immediately is a complete travesty.

Signed,

Sean Peyton and the New Orleans Saints

[blaise]

Why did the Pats need to do this anyway? I thought all the games were already rigged.

[Skyy God]

IF he's found culpable, anything less than a 1 year suspension effective immediately is a complete travesty.

Signed,

Sean Peyton and the New Orleans Saints

No f'ing way this happens, though. Goodell will let the investigative process play out.

[blaise]

The most they'll do is take draft picks and a fine.

[Red Dawg]

Bunch of dirty cheaters. How many times do they have to get caught breaking rules before Goodell gets serious. Take their draft away and suspend Bill for year like they did Peyton. Maybe then they will learn to try and play fair.

I hope Chancellor end Bradys career.

[Simply Red]

Can you imagine had this happened vs. The Chiefs?

this place...

[GoChargers]

It's amazing how Cheatriots fans are STILL spinning and making excuses. You got busted, own up to it already and stop trying to deny it.

[blaise]

The NFL didn't suspend Peyton because they wanted to look like they care about player safety and concussions. They're not going to be motivated to give Belichick a penalty like that because no one's suing the NFL over deflated balls.
Besides, they'll never prove Belichick even knew.

[The Franchise]

It's amazing how Cheatriots fans are STILL spinning and making excuses. You got busted, own up to it already and stop trying to deny it.

It'll never happen.

They're worse than the people who keep coming up with excuses for Alex Smith.

[blaise]

It's amazing how Cheatriots fans are STILL spinning and making excuses. You got busted, own up to it already and stop trying to deny it.

Why would they do that when there's over-reacting people like you saying they should get the Death Penalty?

[Skyy God]

The NFL didn't suspend Peyton because they wanted to look like they care about player safety and concussions. They're not going to be motivated to give Belichick a penalty like that because no one's suing the NFL over deflated balls.
Besides, they'll never prove Belichick even knew.

As I recall, they never proved Payton knew either. But you're right as to the motivation for the severity.

I'd like to see the same "institutional control" rule applied, with a 1 game suspension.

[blaise]

Just to clarify, I meant that to say the NFL suspended Peyton because they wanted to look like they care.

[Donger]

Didn't the NFL give Belichick a fine for the camera thing? If so, did they show that he knew it was happening?

[GoChargers]

It'll never happen.

They're worse than the people who keep coming up with excuses for Alex Smith.

You're right. Instead of Alexcuses and Alexsexuals, it's Belixcuses and Bradysexuals, and the Cheatriots fans are ten times more annoying than the Whiner fans.

[The Franchise]

Didn't the NFL give Belichick a fine for the camera thing? If so, did they show that he knew it was happening?

Fine and loss of a draft pick.

[blaise]

You're right. Instead of Alexcuses and Alexsexuals, it's Belixcuses and Bradysexuals, and the Cheatriots fans are ten times more annoying than the Whiner fans.

You really like these nick-namey things.

[Iowanian]

An under inflated ball weighs a little less. It would be "softer" and may be easier for the Tom to throw and easier for a receiver to grip/catch.

At this level, the do different things on kicking balls versus offense.

Any cheating by the Pats, besides being par for the course is a big deal.

NE should lose a significant draft pick in my opinion.


exactly

I still dont see what ****ing difference it makes

if the refs checked their balls and handled the balls every snap

ffs

[Donger]

Huh:

The next day, Belichick issued a statement in which he apologized for what he called a "mistake" in his interpretation of the rules. However, he denied ever using videotape to gain an advantage while a game was underway, which Goodell also acknowledged

[blaise]

The Patriot Weigh.

[Donger]

The Patriot Weigh.


LMAO

[The Franchise]

1 or 2 balls? No big deal.
11 out of 12 in the AFC Championship game? Blatant fucking cheating. Fuck that entire organization.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

1 or 2 balls? No big deal.
11 out of 12 in the AFC Championship game? Blatant fucking cheating. Fuck that entire organization.

Exactly. It's why I hadn't said a word about this until today.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I can't embed from my tablet but this is hilarious. And probably a Q.

New England Patriots Cialis Commercial Parody (Fo…: http://youtu.be/vd3D2gsPUR0

[petegz28]

Exactly. It's why I hadn't said a word about this until today.

BB should be suspended for the SB

[Donger]

BB should be suspended for the SB

If they can show that he knew about it, like SpyGate, I agree. And a fine and loss of draft picks.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

BB should be suspended for the SB

Should be a year. They set that precedent with the Saints. Personally, I'd go harder than that. Because of their history I'd ban Belichick for life. 3 years of no draft picks and a 50 million dollar fine. They're tarnishing the league's reputation quite a bit at this point. That would also ensure this shit will never happen again.

And to be clear, I'm no Pats hater. Far from it. I openly admired the ineligible receiver plays against the Ravens.

[petegz28]

If they can show that he knew about it, like SpyGate, I agree. And a fine and loss of draft picks.

Whatever the punishment, it has to go beyond losing a 7th round pick. Otherwise there is no incentive to quit cheating.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Should be a year. They set that precedent with the Saints. Personally, I'd go harder than that. Because of their history I'd ban Belichick for life. 3 years of no draft picks and a 50 million dollar fine. They're tarnishing the league's reputation quite a bit at this point. That would also ensure this shit will never happen again.

And to be clear, I'm no Pats hater. Far from it. I openly admired the ineligible receiver plays against the Ravens.

All of that being based on them finding proof which is fairly unlikely.

[DMAC]

The "punishment" is going to be that final push a lot of fans needed to stop caring about the NFL altogether.

[Hootie]

I suppose it doesn't bother anyone how smug and condescending Brady was when he "laughed off" the accusations and said "now I've heard everything."

You know, because he was the one throwing these balls so CLEARLY he knew.

So, he's a world class liar who condones cheating. What a guy.

[The Franchise]

I suppose it doesn't bother anyone how smug and condescending Brady was when he "laughed off" the accusations and said "now I've heard everything."

You know, because he was the one throwing these balls so CLEARLY he knew.

So, he's a world class liar who condones cheating. What a guy.

Always hated him. He'll end with an asterisk on all of his accomplishments.

[BigMeatballDave]

He'll end with an asterisk on all of his accomplishments.

Riiiiight! LOL

[BigMeatballDave]

Who knew that doctoring footballs would ever be viewed as more aggregious than PEDs or other drug use?

This is hilarious to me.

[Donger]

Who knew that doctoring footballs would ever be viewed as more aggregious than PEDs or other drug use?

This is hilarious to me.

I'm not sure why you think they are. Don't those violations carry similar punishments?

Also, this would be the second cheating offense.

[Simply Red]

If it were the Chiefs deflating balls the whole team would be buried under the Abandoned Independence Jail house, ALIVE!

[Wildcat2005]

I think people harping about the impact of the deflated footballs in the AFC Championship game are missing the point
There is a much bigger picture to look at

This is the second time the same organization has been busted for cheating
It is beyond naïve to think this is the only game something like the deflated footballs have been used
They won by 35 points so it is not a big deal, but who is to say they did not use the same tactics against the Ravens?
A game which they barely won

This just signifies that an organization that already has been punished for cheating, continues to do so
They have a pattern of blatant disrespect towards the integrity of the game

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm not sure why you think they are. Don't those violations carry similar punishments?
.

Seriously. How often do we have this much discussion over PEDs?

[Donger]

Seriously. How often do we have this much discussion over PEDs?

I don't know, but I think there have been plenty of threads about PEDs.

[ptlyon]

They have a pattern of blatant disrespect towards the integrity of the game

Sounds like every game the Chiefs play

[BigMeatballDave]

Also, this would be the second cheating offense.You'd have to prove intent. You can't and there is nothing that suggests using an underinflated ball gives you an advantage.

If so, wouldn't all QBs do it all the time?

[SPchief]

You'd have to prove intent. You can't and there is nothing that suggests using an underinflated ball gives you an advantage.

If so, wouldn't all QBs do it all the time?

So this happened just for the hell of it?

[Donger]

You'd have to prove intent. You can't and there is nothing that suggests using an underinflated ball gives you an advantage.

If so, wouldn't all QBs do it all the time?

People keep saying that proof can't be had, but the NFL apparently had proof that the Patriots intentionally taped during SpyGate, but "misinterpreted the rules." Brady is also on record as preferring a deflated ball. I doubt that he stated that because it puts him at a disadvantage, right?

As for specific intent, as I understand it, the refs check the balls 2 hours before the game, and then the balls go back into the hands of the team. So, those 11 balls were adjusted while in the hands of the Patriots. Are you suggesting that they didn't intend to deflate them? All 11 just magically deflated?

[Hootie]

Seriously. How often do we have this much discussion over PEDs?
Bonds was vilified and had syringes thrown at him while he was playing a game ...

Now, if they get caught it's a 50 game suspension. Twice? 100. Third time? Gone.

Deflate-gate didn't win them the AFCCG, we all know that. It's the fact New England has decided they won't comply by the rules if they think they'll get away with it, got caught again, and now they'll have to pay a steep price.

If Payton sat out a year for bountygate ... well, see ya BB

and Tom should be ashamed of himself for his radio reaction where he blatantly lied and said "now he's heard it all!"

They're all scumbags.

[petegz28]

Per the NFL rulebook, each team provides game officials with 12 footballs before the game, and the balls are required to be inflated between 12½ and 13½ pounds per square inch. The referee inspects the game balls 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, places a special marking on each ball that passes inspection, and hands the approved balls to attendants on each team, who are supposed to maintain custody of the balls on each sideline.

If this happened then I think it's rather easy to say this was intentionally done by NE. Or the Refs are in on the gig, one of the two.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I think people harping about the impact of the deflated footballs in the AFC Championship game are missing the point
There is a much bigger picture to look at

This is the second time the same organization has been busted for cheating
It is beyond naïve to think this is the only game something like the deflated footballs have been used
They won by 35 points so it is not a big deal, but who is to say they did not use the same tactics against the Ravens?
A game which they barely won

This just signifies that an organization that already has been punished for cheating, continues to do so
They have a pattern of blatant disrespect towards the integrity of the game

Exactly.

[Simply Red]

Tom should be ashamed of himself for his radio reaction where he blatantly lied and said "now he's heard it all!"

They're all scumbags.


http://i.imgur.com/l6ZJb2s.png

[Beef Supreme]

Cold weather can alter air pressure. My tire pressure light will sometimes come on when it gets cold out. Enough to account for two pounds per square inch in a football? I doubt it, especially considering the Colts didn't have that problem. But I expect to hear this as a possible explanation.

[Hootie]

Cold weather can alter air pressure. My tire pressure light will sometimes come on when it gets cold out. Enough to account for two pounds per square inch in a football? I doubt it, especially considering the Colts didn't have that problem. But I expect to hear this as a possible explanation.

51 degrees man

[The Franchise]

I don't give a fuck if the Pats beat the Colts 100-0. They blatantly cheated and bypassed rules. If this was the Chiefs instead of the Colts....100% of this board would be fucking outraged.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I don't give a fuck if the Pats beat the Colts 100-0. They blatantly cheated and bypassed rules. If this was the Chiefs instead of the Colts....100% of this board would be fucking outraged.

Yep.

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't give a fuck if the Pats beat the Colts 100-0. They blatantly cheated and bypassed rules. If this was the Chiefs instead of the Colts....100% of this board would be fucking outraged.

Blatantly cheated? Huh?

[The Franchise]

Blatantly cheated? Huh?

Deflating 11 out of the 12 footballs when it is A CLEAR RULE is blatantly cheating. Yeah....

PEDs? Cheating.

Spygate? Cheating.

They're all fucking cheating.

[Hootie]

the NFL Compliance Plan is Goodell's baby ...

if they tampered with the balls after the officials checked them

they're fucked

[BigMeatballDave]

Deflating 11 out of the 12 footballs when it is A CLEAR RULE is blatantly cheating. Yeah....

PEDs? Cheating.

Spygate? Cheating.

They're all fucking cheating.
LMAO Okay, find a new hobby. This one may be endangering your health. Control the rage.

[petegz28]

I don't give a **** if the Pats beat the Colts 100-0. They blatantly cheated and bypassed rules. If this was the Chiefs instead of the Colts....100% of this board would be ****ing outraged.

yep

[Hootie]

Blatantly cheated? Huh?

what are you arguing, man?

11 of the 12 footballs were under-deflated by the exact amount each. It was blatant cheating.

Like. There is no longer an argument. If you're on the side of the fence you're presenting, you are going to look foolish.

No one is saying deflate-gate was the reason the Pats won. No one.