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BigRedChief
02-05-2015, 10:20 AM
Yes because driving drunk is a libertarian position, GTFO!Your deflection and ignoring my point doesn't negate your "Liberterian" views endanger other citizens.

As a civilized society we have agreed on laws to not endanger others without their knowledge or permission. Yes or No?

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:22 AM
Your deflection and ignoring my point doesn't negate your "Liberterian" views endanger other citizens.

As a civilized society we have agreed on laws to not endanger others without their knowledge or permission. Yes or No?

Libertarians agree to protect you from others, so what does that have to do with the argument?

As long as you are not hurting others, then u may go freely about your business.

BigRedChief
02-05-2015, 10:24 AM
Libertarians agree to protect you from others, so what does that have to do with the argument?

As long as you are not hurting others, then u may go freely about your business.So its your argument that parents that don't vaccinate their kids are in no way endangering other kids?

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:29 AM
So its your argument that parents that don't vaccinate their kids are in no way endangering other kids?

It's best to show parents the facts and accept that the decisions they make are probably more caring for their children than a fat bloated governments care.

Fish
02-05-2015, 10:39 AM
Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed. Plus, it's not even witty, insulting or otherwise entertaining. You can do better. Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to other first world countries?

Why would you get your medical data from Jenny McCarthy?

Are you aware that 114 other countries have higher rates of infant immunization than the United States?

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries/1W-US-MX?order=wbapi_data_value_2013%20wbapi_data_value%20wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc&display=default

Were you aware that many other countries would have higher immunization rates, but actually cannot afford the vaccine? It has nothing to do with vaccine safety, they simply cannot afford the vaccine. That's why you've never heard of any actual reasoning for these other countries to have fewer vaccines. Not because any danger has been identified.

There are countless countries that still seriously struggle with diseases like measles that could be prevented if they had the economic ability to do so. Some of these countries with significantly fewer vaccinations, also suffer from the highest rates of those vaccine-preventable diseases. Like Haiti, who cannot afford it. They have much lower rates of vaccinations, but they also have incredibly higher rates of infection of those diseases. Jenny forgot to mention that..

How about looking at some of those countries with lower rates of vaccination, and comparing their rates of autism.

Let's look at Denmark, which is significant because they've been keeping track of vaccine numbers since 1971. They completely removed thimerosal in 1992. So we have long ranging vaccine records for before and after thimerosal.

But, what about Denmark? A study from 10 years ago looked at autism incidence following the removal of thimerosal in Denmark in 1992. Thimerosal and the occurrence of autism: negative ecological evidence from Danish population-based data (http://www2.aap.org/pressroom/issuekitfiles/ThimerasolandAutisminDenmark.pdf)

In that study they found 956 children born in their study period who were diagnosed with autism by 2000:

A total of 956 children with a male to female ratio of 3.5:1 had been diagnosed with autism during the period 1971–2000.

The current Denmark study included individuals diagnosed until the end of 2010. I.e. there were 10 more years of followup. In those 10 years a lot more people were diagnosed. Where there were 956 diagnosed with autism by 2000 (for birth years 1971 to 2000), 2321 were diagnosed by 2010. That’s an increase of 240%. And the new study focused on birth years 1980 to 1999. I.e. the entire 1970’s birth cohort is not included in this count, and they still found over twice as many autistics. Where were they in 2000, when the previous study was performed? Living in Denmark, not identified as autistic.

There are a few factors which are likely behind this increase, but here we have a great example of “increased awareness” affecting autism prevalence.

And, those numbers were for childhood autism. For ASD, the increase is even larger. 10,377 Danes had an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis (for birth years 1980-1999) in the new study (the previous study included none). That’s a whopping 1080% increase. Again, there are a few reasons for this (including the increased awareness above), but here’s what “expanding the definition” does to autism.

Those increases would be an “epidemic” to some if it weren’t for the fact that those autistic Danes were there all along. They just weren’t diagnosed in 2000.

For many years, groups touting the idea that vaccines cause autism have pointed to Denmark as part of their argument. Denmark uses fewer vaccines than the U.S.. Generation Rescue used to have this on their website discussion of vaccines:

Comment: Denmark is a first world country based in Western Europe. Their schedule appears far more reasonable than ours. They have also been reported to have a much lower rate of autism than the U.S. Do they know something we don’t?

What was that Danish vaccine schedule that Generation Rescue recommended?

DTaP at 3, 5 and 12 months
Hib at 3, 5 and 12 months
IPV at 3, 5 and 12 months, plus 5 years
MMR at 15 months and 12 years

No mercury (Denmark phased that out in 1992). No birth dose of Hepatitis B. Fewer vaccines overall than in the U.S.. And the same autism prevalence of about 1%.

Denmark even shows that as the MMR vaccine uptake began rising after 1997, autism instances didn't rise any, and actually decreased.

How about the MMR vaccine? MMR uptake for young children (MMR1) was basically flat from 1987-1997. Uptake rose somewhat after that. So, during the period that the estimated prevalence was increasing, MMR uptake was basically flat. During the time that the estimated prevalence was either flat (childhood autism) or decreasing (ASD’s), the MMR uptake was increasing. So if we were to play the “correlation equals causation” game, MMR prevents autism. (two notes, preventing rubella infections most likely does prevent some autism and the link above shows a nice example of rubella infections going down after MMR was introduced in 1987.

http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/08/25/autism-denmark-and-again-no-link-with-vaccines/

Try looking at the big picture instead of clinging to sloppy cherry picked correlations that fall apart under scrutiny..

Eleazar
02-05-2015, 11:21 AM
So if we were to play the “correlation equals causation” game, MMR prevents autism. (two notes, preventing rubella infections most likely does prevent some autism and the link above shows a nice example of rubella infections going down after MMR was introduced in 1987.

"What the Illuminatibergs don't want you to know!"

BigRedChief
02-05-2015, 11:31 AM
It's best to show parents the facts and accept that the decisions they make are probably more caring for their children than a fat bloated governments care.Again deflection with government is bad argument. Do parents have a right to endanger other parents kids?

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 02:12 PM
OK...

Aluminum hydroxide: Used in antacids, constipation meds, and to control phosphate levels for people with kidney issues. In vaccines it stimulates the immune system by causing the body to make uric acid. It helps the immune system kick into gear.

Aluminum phosphate: Same use as hydroxide.

Aluminum potassium sulfate: Potash. Used in medicine to reduce bleeding. Hemorrhoid medication. Used as deodorant. Also used as an additive in baking(LOL) to provide leavening.

The point is that we could do this for any of these scary chemicals....

We can do this for months but I am not going to. This was produced last year from the journal of toxicology. One ingredient indeed.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2014/491316/

You also remind me of the stock broker with his head so locked into his Bloomberg terminal that he can't see the obvious things around him before a stock crash. Most of us know people damaged by vaccines like our own Gonzo that nobody even bothers to acknowledge because it makes us uncomfortable. I know three families who experienced major problems immediately following a vaccine. Not one of you asked him to elaborate on his own life experience because you are to busy claiming science as your own.

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 02:14 PM
By the way, Thimersal is no longer used in vaccinations, despite the fact that there was no link between adverse side effects and usage.

If you are going to play the game Dane the least you could do is read the current list of additives I posted. You are wrong.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2015, 02:21 PM
If you are going to play the game Dane the least you could do is read the current list of additives I posted. You are wrong.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

The Food and Drug Administration has worked with, and continues to work with, vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines.

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine.

DenverChief
02-05-2015, 02:23 PM
We can do this for months but I am not going to. This was produced last year from the journal of toxicology. One ingredient indeed.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2014/491316/

You also remind me of the stock broker with his head so locked into his Bloomberg terminal that he can't see the obvious things around him before a stock crash. Most of us know people damaged by vaccines like our own Gonzo that nobody even bothers to acknowledge because it makes us uncomfortable. I know three families who experienced major problems immediately following a vaccine. Not one of you asked him to elaborate on his own life experience because you are to busy claiming science as your own.

Just a quick search of your "source" reveled this:

A great upheaval is occurring in scholarly publishing. Over the past 10 years, researchers, academics, and academic librarians have been promoting open-access publishing, and we are just now beginning to see the results of their advocacy, which unfortunately are way below expectations.

One result is that the open-access movement is producing an almost boomtown-like increase in the number of scholarly open-access publishers, fostered by a very low barrier to entrance into the learned publishing industry. To become a scholarly publisher, all you need now is a computer, a website, and the ability to create unique journal titles.

Bolstering this trend is the so-called “gold open-access” model, in which publishing is supported not by subscription fees but by author fees. An example of a gold open-access journal is The Scientific World Journal,currently published by Cairo-based Hindawi Publishing Corporation. This megajournal covers virtually all scientific fields and imposes an article processing charge of $1,000 for each accepted article. Similarly, the better-known Public Library of Science (PLoS)journals charge authors anywhere from $1,350 to $2,900 to publish, with a discount if the researcher is affiliated with a university that is an institutional member.

This increase in the number of open-access journals has major implications for scholarly publishing. Authors become the publishers’ customers, an arrangement that creates a conflict of interest: the more papers a publisher accepts, the more revenue it earns.

Not surprisingly, acceptance rates at gold open-access journals are skyrocketing, and article peer review is decreasing. Scholarly communication is now flooded with hundreds of thousands of new, second-rate articles each year, burdening conscientious researchers who have to sort through them all, filtering out the unworthy ones.

Exploiting the trend is an increasing number of what I define as “predatory” publishers—those that unprofessionally exploit the gold open-access model for their own profit. These publishers use deception to appear legitimate, entrapping researchers into submitting their work and then charging them to publish it. Some prey especially on junior faculty and graduate students, bombarding them with spam e-mail solicitations.

Harvesting data from legitimate publishers’ websites, they send personalized spam, enticing researchers by praising their earlier works and inviting them to submit a new manuscript. Many of these bogus publishers falsely claim to enforce stringent peer review, but it appears they routinely publish article manuscripts upon receipt of the author fee. Some have added names to their editorial boards without first getting permission from the scientists they list, among other unethical practices.



More...

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32426/title/Predatory-Publishing/


I wouldn't trust anything I read at that websitte

DaveNull
02-05-2015, 02:34 PM
http://s.mlkshk.com/r/12NUJ

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 02:34 PM
Why would you take the word of a documentary filmmaker and activist over the word of the entire medical community?

.

Entire Medical Community? Talk about blanket statements. IT is far from the entire medical community. The organizations I discussed earlier with you work outside of the watchful eye of the FDA, CDC and WHO for a reason. The character assassination of anyone who crosses or publishes anything that contradicts them has been taking place for as long as I can remember. As long as the incestuous relationship between Big Pharm and the governing bodies exists there will be no change.

What's with the FDA shutting down 23andme? Now they want to shut down an organization because they don't want people being proactive in knowing the history of their DNA as it relates to disease? They didn't even manufacture drugs. What I told you about the medical movement years ago is gaining traction now. There are networks of doctors and scientists working outside of the FDA and their success will mean a change in the way we all look at our health and end the stranglehold the governing bodies have over our life and health. Don't think those bodies don't know it either. The only thing that will keep them omnipotent is a full on major pandemic, not the little rash everyone is quivering about in here. That thought alone is scary.

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 02:38 PM
Just a quick search of your "source" reveled this:



More...

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32426/title/Predatory-Publishing/


I wouldn't trust anything I read at that websitte

You can see who did the research Denver. The amount of disinformation, propaganda and killing the messenger being put out by those who stand to lose the most should be obvious.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2015, 02:52 PM
The only thing that will keep them omnipotent is a full on major pandemic, not the little rash everyone is quivering about in here. That thought alone is scary.

Little rash. Little rash? You keep saying this, which really makes you appear to be foolish. I mean, forget the Tin Foil Hat bullshit you've been spewing, but measles is more than a "little rash".

The mere fact that you continue to state such stupidity (again, not the Tin Foil hat nonsense) either means you don't understand the gravity and damage that measles can cause, but that you have zero respect for life threatening diseases and bacteria.

Encephalitis, blindness and loss of hearing, not to mention death, are all side effects of Measles. Now why in the world would you put your child at risk by deciding not to vaccinate when billions of people worldwide have been vaccinated without issue?

Fish
02-05-2015, 02:58 PM
We can do this for months but I am not going to. This was produced last year from the journal of toxicology. One ingredient indeed.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2014/491316/


Hindawi? Seriously? That's a pay-to-publish racket. I could publish a study on Hindawi today saying pork ribs cause AIDS.

And the thing you're completely overlooking, is that Aluminum is absolutely toxic in certain doses, and there are certainly studies showing that. The problem is that saying aluminum is toxic, and then trying to link that fact to the idea of vaccines being dangerous because of it, is a chasm you will never be able to bridge.

Your own source admits that it's used in medication, baby formula(LOL), antacids, and a whole host of other known uses that nobody gives two shits about.

There are thousands of things we consume every day that are toxic in specific doses. There's radioactive toxins in bananas....

Fish
02-05-2015, 03:09 PM
The organizations I discussed earlier with you work outside of the watchful eye of the FDA, CDC and WHO for a reason.

I have absolutely no doubts that they work outside the watchful eye of any health regulatory agency. What we disagree on is why they do that.

The character assassination of anyone who crosses or publishes anything that contradicts them has been taking place for as long as I can remember. As long as the incestuous relationship between Big Pharm and the governing bodies exists there will be no change.

Because it's not this..... The FDA has its problems for sure. But what you're claiming is nonsense.

What's with the FDA shutting down 23andme? Now they want to shut down an organization because they don't want people being proactive in knowing the history of their DNA as it relates to disease? They didn't even manufacture drugs. What I told you about the medical movement years ago is gaining traction now. There are networks of doctors and scientists working outside of the FDA and their success will mean a change in the way we all look at our health and end the stranglehold the governing bodies have over our life and health. Don't think those bodies don't know it either. The only thing that will keep them omnipotent is a full on major pandemic, not the little rash everyone is quivering about in here. That thought alone is scary.

That took all of 10 seconds to find.

This product is a device within the meaning of section 201(h) of the FD&C Act, 21 U.S.C. 321(h), because it is intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, or is intended to affect the structure or function of the body. For example, your company’s website at www.23andme.com/health (most recently viewed on November 6, 2013) markets the PGS for providing “health reports on 254 diseases and conditions,” including categories such as “carrier status,” “health risks,” and “drug response,” and specifically as a “first step in prevention” that enables users to “take steps toward mitigating serious diseases” such as diabetes, coronary heart disease, and breast cancer. Most of the intended uses for PGS listed on your website, a list that has grown over time, are medical device uses under section 201(h) of the FD&C Act. Most of these uses have not been classified and thus require premarket approval or de novo classification, as FDA has explained to you on numerous occasions.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2013/ucm376296.htm

They were making health claims without going through the regulatory process. Your paranoid conspiracy theories aside, there must be regulations applied when making product claims regarding treating or curing a disease. I know you just completely dismiss that because of your unfounded personal opinions about the FDA. But that's just crazy talk.

Pablo
02-05-2015, 03:25 PM
I give my kids Robitussin. Works better than any of these silly vaccines everyone is so hung up on!

Sully
02-05-2015, 03:30 PM
I give my kids Robitussin. Works better than any of these silly vaccines everyone is so hung up on!

http://youtu.be/YsY2-yi5W74

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 04:10 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/local-mother-recounts-sons-bad-vaccine-reaction-02022015

|Zach|
02-05-2015, 04:18 PM
The filter bubble Big Daddy is in is strong.

If you try hard enough you are going to find something on the internet to back up your thought no matter how mind numbingly retarded it is.

LMAO

Silock
02-05-2015, 04:19 PM
Ban peanuts.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/DE25694.htm

SPchief
02-05-2015, 04:20 PM
Ban Organic foods

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/how-my-daughter-taught-me-that-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism/

DaveNull
02-05-2015, 04:22 PM
http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 04:22 PM
Obama Admin Grants Immunity To CDC Scientist That Fudged Vaccine Report…Whistleblower Plans To Testify Before Congress.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/03/obama-admin-grants-immunity-to-cdc-scientist-that-fudged-vaccine-report-whistleblower-plans-to-testify-before-congress/

Beef Supreme
02-05-2015, 04:27 PM
LMAO

Did you just quote yourself and laugh?

BIG_DADDY
02-05-2015, 04:28 PM
Vaccines presidential issue? Apparently only the tard garden lives on one side of the fence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chris-christie-remarks-show-vaccines-potency-in-political-debate/2015/02/02/f1c49a6e-aaff-11e4-abe8-e1ef60ca26de_story.html

The vigorous outcry in response to the remarks underscored the sensitivity surrounding the vaccination debate, particularly given a widening multistate measles outbreak linked to a California theme park. Both Christie and Paul are leading GOP candidates who are likely to exercise significant influence over the direction of the 2016 primary race.

The comments also illustrated persistent strains of skepticism within both parties over vaccination requirements, fueled in part by discredited claims of a connection between childhood shots and autism. Scientists have blamed a small but influential anti-vaccine movement for helping spark a new epidemic of measles, which was once virtually eliminated.

[Related: Everything you wanted to know about measles and the debate over vaccines]

On Monday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that more than 100 cases of the highly infectious disease were diagnosed in January. Most of the cases appear linked to victims who became ill after visiting Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif., in mid-December.

“When you see educated people or elected officials giving credence to things that have been completely debunked, an idea that’s been shown to be responsible for multiple measles and pertussis outbreaks in recent years, it’s very concerning,” said Amesh Adalja, an infectious-disease physician at the Center for Health Security at the University of Pittsburgh. He called the comments from Paul particularly troubling because Paul is a doctor.




Christie’s aides quickly tried to clarify his remarks, insisting in a statement that the Republican governor believes vaccines are “an important public health protection.”

After visiting a MedImmune vaccine laboratory in Cambridge, Christie was asked to weigh in on the debate in the United States over the measles outbreak. President Obama told NBC News anchor Savannah Guthrie on Sunday, “You should get your kids vaccinated.”






CDC: Get vaccinated for measles(0:55)

The CDC is urging people to get vaccinated for measles amid an outbreak that began at Disneyland and has now spread to other states, including Utah, Washington, Oregon and Colorado.

“The science is, you know, pretty indisputable,” Obama said. “We’ve looked at this again and again. There is every reason to get vaccinated, but there aren’t reasons to not.”

[ Related: Vox got it wrong when it said Obama “pandered to anti-vaxxers in 2008” ]

Christie, however, said Monday that “there has to be a balance, and it depends on what the vaccine is, what the disease type is, and all the rest.” He added: “Not every vaccine is created equal, and not every disease type is as great a public health threat as others.

“I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well, so that’s the balance that the government has to decide,” he said.

As for Paul, he told talk show host Laura Ingraham that he had chosen to hold off on vaccinating his children for some diseases.

“I didn’t like them getting 10 vaccines at once, so I actually delayed my kids’ vaccines and had them staggered over time,” he said.

Both men’s remarks drew immediate rebuke from experts on the issue.

[Related: The saddest story Roald Dahl ever wrote is about his daughter’s death from measles]

Seth Mnookin, a professor at MIT who has written a book on the vaccination debate called “The Panic Virus,” called the comments from Christie and Paul “incredibly, in*cred*ibly irresponsible.”

Such remarks, he said, “basically fail at the first duty of a politician, which is to calm his constituents in moments of irrational crisis.”

The criticism came too from some political strategists, who wondered whether Christie in particular might have been attempting to appeal to Republicans suspicious of government mandates.

“There’s only one of two options,” said Rick Wilson, a Republican operative from Florida. “Either he’s so tone-deaf that he doesn’t understand why saying this is bad for him, or this is a considered political strategy. And that would be even more troubling.”

Silock
02-05-2015, 04:47 PM
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6623268

Fish
02-05-2015, 04:54 PM
Obama Admin Grants Immunity To CDC Scientist That Fudged Vaccine Report…Whistleblower Plans To Testify Before Congress.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/03/obama-admin-grants-immunity-to-cdc-scientist-that-fudged-vaccine-report-whistleblower-plans-to-testify-before-congress/

Did you read this from your source?

No official study has ever linked childhood vaccinations to serious mental defects or to autism or related disorders.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 05:29 PM
The internet has given way too many dumbfucks a voice.

mr. tegu
02-05-2015, 05:39 PM
People are trying so hard to create an issue where there isn't one. It is sickening that kooks with ridiculous claims and no scientific evidence can get their fantasy views any attention. They sit there and say they won't get the disease because it's rare but are too stupid to realize its rare because of the vaccine and when enough like minded simpletons start feeding the frenzy it becomes a problem for everyone.

There is no debate. There is no controversy. It is beyond ridiculous that any politician should have to comment on this topic. These lunatics are causing society to take a step backwards. Unfortunately it will take something even more serious like Polio making a comeback to wake these idiots up. Hopefully they stay the vast minority though and it doesn't come to that.

Silock
02-05-2015, 08:18 PM
Autism Speaks urges parents to vaccinate their children

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/autism-speaks-urges-parents-vaccinate-children/story?id=28751485

Even they know the vaccine to autism link is BS.

Chiefnj2
02-05-2015, 08:53 PM
People are trying so hard to create an issue where there isn't one. It is sickening that kooks with ridiculous claims and no scientific evidence can get their fantasy views any attention. They sit there and say they won't get the disease because it's rare but are too stupid to realize its rare because of the vaccine and when enough like minded simpletons start feeding the frenzy it becomes a problem for everyone.

There is no debate. There is no controversy. It is beyond ridiculous that any politician should have to comment on this topic. These lunatics are causing society to take a step backwards. Unfortunately it will take something even more serious like Polio making a comeback to wake these idiots up. Hopefully they stay the vast minority though and it doesn't come to that.

You are a lunatic if you don't want to give your child the flu vaccine or hep a vaccine?

mr. tegu
02-05-2015, 09:46 PM
You are a lunatic if you don't want to give your child the flu vaccine or hep a vaccine?

The people that believe every unverified, debunked, and incorrect claim they read and then using that as a reason for not using vaccines and spreading ignorance? Yes.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2015, 10:43 PM
My kids get the flu vaccine (mist) every year, have had Hep A & Hep B, MMR, etc. and so on with absolutely no issues, not even a fever.

They'll have the HPV vaccine when their doctor recommends it as well.

Silock
02-05-2015, 10:46 PM
My kids get the flu vaccine (mist) every year, have had Hep A & Hep B, MMR, etc. and so on with absolutely no issues, not even a fever.

They'll have the HPV vaccine when their doctor recommends it as well.

THIS MAN IS A SAVAGE!

ThaVirus
02-05-2015, 10:46 PM
HPV is getting out of control.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2015, 10:50 PM
HPV is getting out of control.

My wife's cancer was caused by HPV. You can damn sure bet my girls will get the vaccine.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2015, 10:53 PM
THIS MAN IS A SAVAGE!

LMAO

What some people don't seem to understand is that the "Flu Shot" doesn't vaccinate against every strain of influenza, it vaccinates one very deadly strain of influenza that mutates every year, which can be deadly for young children or the elderly.

With the spray, it's a no brainer for kids. No pain, no reaction, just one spray in each nostril, like taking Nasacort or whatever.

BigRedChief
02-05-2015, 11:01 PM
My wife's cancer was caused by HPV. You can damn sure bet my girls will get the vaccine.You know when mommy got sick.........this medicine will prevent that happening to you.

If I experienced what you had to endure, that would be worth any amount of money to be able to say that to my kids. And its free and available to the public.

Science rocks!:thumb:

|Zach|
02-06-2015, 06:50 AM
Did you read this from your source?

This is fantastic.

J Diddy
02-06-2015, 07:18 AM
I'm curious as to whether or not Big Daddy has had his vaccinations.

Katipan
02-06-2015, 07:21 AM
My kids get the flu vaccine (mist) every year, have had Hep A & Hep B, MMR, etc. and so on with absolutely no issues, not even a fever.

They'll have the HPV vaccine when their doctor recommends it as well.

My little just got her flu shot yesterday.
I got a lecture.

But her pediatrician is a really really tall scary asian man.
So I took the lecture.

:D

keg in kc
02-06-2015, 07:45 AM
My wife's cancer was caused by HPV. You can damn sure bet my girls will get the vaccine.My ex-wife contracted HPV before we even met, did not tell me and managed to hide any obvious symptoms she might have had for seven years. I have never presented symptoms and there's no test for men, so I forever have no way of knowing short of an outbreak whether I'm a carrier/gift that keeps on giving for future partners. It was like a fun going away present when we separated. 'Oh, by the way...'

Katipan
02-06-2015, 07:53 AM
My ex-wife contracted HPV before we even met, did not tell me and managed to hide any obvious symptoms she might have had for seven years. I have never presented symptoms and there's no test for men, so I forever have no way of knowing short of an outbreak whether I'm a carrier/gift that keeps on giving for future partners. It was like a fun going away present when we separated. 'Oh, by the way...'

You'll just have to date 20 year olds in a few years. By then all the vaccinations should catch up.

keg in kc
02-06-2015, 08:02 AM
You'll just have to date 20 year olds in a few years. By then all the vaccinations should catch up.We're on the same page.

I don't think we'll ever be on the same Paige, though.

DenverChief
02-06-2015, 09:02 AM
A friend of mine passed this gem on to me and I couldn't have said it better myself:


Even if I humor anti-vaccine activists and for a second (and) believe that vaccines cause autisim in 0.01% of children they're adminstered to (spoiler alert: vaccines don't cause autisim), I am still deeply disturbed that these people are more afraid of people with disabilities than they are fatal, painful, and endemic diseases. If cognitive disabilites are more threatening to you than children never getting to grow up because polio makes a comeback, you have priorities to reevaluate my friend. Shame on you for brainwashing mothers and families into believeing that autisim is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a person.

Fish
02-06-2015, 09:24 AM
Republicans on vaccinations: Parents should have the right to choose.

Republicans on Abortion: LOL... Fuck you, women..

Eleazar
02-06-2015, 09:34 AM
Hindawi? Seriously? That's a pay-to-publish racket. I could publish a study on Hindawi today saying pork ribs cause AIDS.

And the thing you're completely overlooking, is that Aluminum is absolutely toxic in certain doses, and there are certainly studies showing that. The problem is that saying aluminum is toxic, and then trying to link that fact to the idea of vaccines being dangerous because of it, is a chasm you will never be able to bridge.

Your own source admits that it's used in medication, baby formula(LOL), antacids, and a whole host of other known uses that nobody gives two shits about.

There are thousands of things we consume every day that are toxic in specific doses. There's radioactive toxins in bananas....

You always see this in the vaccinations nut crowd. Inability to see that a certain thing may be beneficial in one quantity but not in another.

DaneMcCloud
02-06-2015, 10:55 AM
My ex-wife contracted HPV before we even met, did not tell me and managed to hide any obvious symptoms she might have had for seven years. I have never presented symptoms and there's no test for men, so I forever have no way of knowing short of an outbreak whether I'm a carrier/gift that keeps on giving for future partners. It was like a fun going away present when we separated. 'Oh, by the way...'

Well from my understanding, and this is from talking with multiple doctors, the virus clears in a healthy males in about 4-6 weeks but can lie dormant for decades in females before causing cervical, breast and tongue cancer.

As far as I know, there are no symptoms for HPV, which has been around since 8,000-10,000 BC when Egypt was at its height. HPV related cancer is extremely rare in men and from my understanding, has caused penile cancer in homosexual men only, and it was less than 1% of all males that have HPV.

If you were concerned, you could have a blood test. Fortunately for my wife, she's two years cancer free and the last HPV blood test was virus free.

DaneMcCloud
02-06-2015, 10:57 AM
My little just got her flu shot yesterday.
I got a lecture.

But her pediatrician is a really really tall scary asian man.
So I took the lecture.

:D

LMAO

Was the spray available? My six year old freaks out when shots are even mentioned. The last time she had shots, I had to physically restrain her while the shot was administered. Fortunately, the Flu vaccine is available as a mist and that was much easier.

Katipan
02-06-2015, 11:05 AM
LMAO

Was the spray available? My six year old freaks out when shots are even mentioned. The last time she had shots, I had to physically restrain her while the shot was administered. Fortunately, the Flu vaccine is available as a mist and that was much easier.

That was part of the lecture.

"You know we had plenty of the spray 3 months ago, but now she's going to have to have a shot because you waited. And at her age she has to have 2 so I'll see you in a month, no appointment, just walk in, and then we'll see you again in October, yes?"

"Yes sir."


My 3 year old is still young enough to be distracted until it's over. My 12 year old has to get updated and while he's tough enough to not complain about it I see the worry behind his eyes.

Cracks me up. Silently of course. :)

DaneMcCloud
02-06-2015, 11:11 AM
That was part of the lecture.

"You know we had plenty of the spray 3 months ago, but now she's going to have to have a shot because you waited. And at her age she has to have 2 so I'll see you in a month, no appointment, just walk in, and then we'll see you again in October, yes?"

"Yes sir."


My 3 year old is still young enough to be distracted until it's over. My 12 year old has to get updated and while he's tough enough to not complain about it I see the worry behind his eyes.

Cracks me up. Silently of course. :)

The 2 year old is braver than the 6 year old. It's hard not to laugh out loud, which would hurt her feelings, so I can't.

Pediatricians can be a crack up, too. Our first was pretty hardcore. My oldest knew how to use the potty but wouldn't do it consistently. The doctor said "I'll take care of it". So he brought her into his office and said "I don't want you to potty in your diapers any longer. You're only allowed to use the potty. Understand?".

She used the potty from that day forward. :D

Mr. Laz
02-06-2015, 11:30 AM
People should feel free to exercise their personal freedom to not vaccinate. They should also do the same when it comes to sending their kids to public school.

no vaccination
no public school

you shouldn't put others at risk by your personal choices


A bit similar to other issues:

Don't care if you choose to smoke, but don't smoke around others and blow that shit all over the place.

Don't care if you choose to take steroids, but you can't take steroids and then play in a competitive sport where they give an unfair advantage.

keg in kc
02-06-2015, 11:39 AM
If you were concerned, you could have a blood test. Fortunately for my wife, she's two years cancer free and the last HPV blood test was virus free.This was in 2003. I haven't given it much thought since. Was more worried about else she might have had. Fortunately I was clear of everything. REALLY freaked me out at the the time what might have caught from her.

Dude shouldn't have to worry about that kind of shit with his own wife. Lesson #1 that I make really bad decisions with women.

Took a couple more lessons for it to sink in but I finally got it. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
02-06-2015, 11:46 AM
This was in 2003. I haven't given it much thought since. Was more worried about else she might have had. Fortunately I was clear of everything. REALLY freaked me out at the the time what might have caught from her.

Dude shouldn't have to worry about that kind of shit with his own wife. Lesson #1 that I make really bad decisions with women.

Took a couple more lessons for it to sink in but I finally got it. LMAO

Well, the thing about HPV is that it's easily transmitted and a very communicable disease. It could be passed with a handshake or from someone's sweat on a bench in a gym. It's that easy.

But yeah, if she knowingly exposed you to HPV, that's pretty bad. Sorry, Man.

DaFace
02-06-2015, 12:07 PM
Saw this chart today, which seems to explain anti-vaxxers well.

http://www.thealmightyjenny.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Snapshot.png

DenverChief
02-06-2015, 01:00 PM
from my understanding, has caused penile cancer in homosexual men only.

Wait...wut?

Discuss Thrower
02-06-2015, 01:11 PM
Wait...wut?

Sucks to suck!!!!!

DenverChief
02-06-2015, 01:43 PM
Sucks to suck!!!!!

:LOL: - seriously tho it's just a rumor right?

Discuss Thrower
02-06-2015, 02:27 PM
:LOL: - seriously tho it's just a rumor right?
Can't imagine the stats bear out exactly the way Dane says, but it could make sense that there's a higher rate of penile cancer in gay men than straight men or women *because* there's a higher rate of exposure to more virulent strains of papilloma virus in mouths and an anal cavities.

MagicHef
02-06-2015, 02:41 PM
Saw this chart today, which seems to explain anti-vaxxers well.

http://www.thealmightyjenny.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Snapshot.png

Where would you place yourself on this chart?

DaFace
02-06-2015, 02:44 PM
Where would you place yourself on this chart?

Probably somewhere above the "g" in "nothing." The difference between me and anti-vaxxers is that I rely on the people to the right of me to draw conclusions rather than relying on people to the left.

ThaVirus
02-06-2015, 02:46 PM
My ex-wife contracted HPV before we even met, did not tell me and managed to hide any obvious symptoms she might have had for seven years. I have never presented symptoms and there's no test for men, so I forever have no way of knowing short of an outbreak whether I'm a carrier/gift that keeps on giving for future partners. It was like a fun going away present when we separated. 'Oh, by the way...'


You mentioned outbreaks so I'm guessing you're talking about a strand that causes genital warts? If so, you don't have anything to worry about. It's a nuisance but not painful or dangerous in any way, as far as I've read. The strands that cause warts don't cause cancer..

MagicHef
02-06-2015, 03:03 PM
The problem is that this really is a case where you are dumb and everyone else is smart. There's really no debating this.

Probably somewhere above the "g" in "nothing." The difference between me and anti-vaxxers is that I rely on the people to the right of me to draw conclusions rather than relying on people to the left.

That's good to know.

Fat Elvis
02-06-2015, 04:58 PM
Probably somewhere above the "g" in "nothing." The difference between me and anti-vaxxers is that I rely on the people to the right of me to draw conclusions rather than relying on people to the left.

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/startracks/070820/jenny_mccarthy300.jpg

Why rely on doctors and scientists for knowledge when you have a Playboy bunny with all the answers?

lewdog
02-06-2015, 09:46 PM
I was hoping to come in here and find the anti-vaccinators dead, which is what they should get.

This fucking sucks.

Fish
02-07-2015, 12:23 AM
Heh...

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ztd575.jpg

Eleazar
02-10-2015, 08:11 AM
Is the Measles Vaccine Worthwhile?
Andrew Weil, M.D.
February 10, 2015


If you view measles as merely an uncomfortable, annoying, or trivial disease of childhood, you should be aware of its history. Its complications can be devastating - about one patient in 10 will develop an ear infection (otitis media) and one in 15 will get pneumonia, which can be serious and is life-threatening in some cases. About one measles patient in 1,000 contracts encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain that causes nausea and vomiting, seizures and sometimes coma and death. Measles can also cause deafness. Cases occurring in pregnant women can lead to miscarriage and low birth-weight babies.

The virus that causes measles is so easily spread that 90 percent of those exposed will get sick. What's more, the virus can linger in the air after an infected person leaves the scene and continue to infect others for up to two hours. Children (and adults) are safe only if they've been vaccinated or have already had measles.

Approximately 30 million to 40 million cases of measles occur worldwide each year, resulting in nearly a million deaths and incalculable disability. This "trivial" disease can be deadly serious.

Measles has been kept successfully under control in the U.S. for decades by the routine administration of MMR vaccination. "MMR" stands for measles, mumps and rubella (sometimes known as German measles). Thanks to the vaccine, introduced in 1963, the incidence of measles in the U.S. has decreased by more than 99 percent and was considered eliminated here in 2000 (meaning that no cases have originated in this country since that year). Prior to the availability of the MMR vaccine an estimated three to four million people in the U.S. were infected each year, with 48,000 needing hospitalization and 4,000 developing encephalitis. An estimated 400-500 people died yearly.

Because the vaccine isn't routinely given elsewhere in the world, we get occasional outbreaks in the U.S. such as the one traced to a young foreign visitor to Disneyland in California in December 2014. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that single exposure was the primary cause (as of this writing) of 102 cases of measles in 14 states. The CDC also announced that in 2014 a record number of measles cases occurred in the U.S - 644 in 27 states - the most reported since the disease was eliminated in 2000.

Measles has not been eliminated in Europe, where some 30,000 cases have occurred since 2008. In 2013, 15,000 cases and at least six measles deaths occurred in France alone.

There's no treatment for measles other than letting it run its course. Infants with known exposure can receive the MMR within three days to limit the severity of the infection. Pregnant or immune-compromised people can receive serum immune globulin injections, which provide pre-formed antibodies to fight the infection. When given within six days of viral exposure, this treatment can prevent measles or make symptoms less severe.

I definitely believe that children should get the MMR vaccine as recommended - one shot at 12 to 15 months old and the second between ages four and six. I made sure my daughter had all her shots as scheduled.

Parents who decline to have their children vaccinated put both their families and others at risk, often believing (erroneously) that the MMR vaccine is linked to autism. That idea came from a 1998 report in the medical journal The Lancet. However, since then extensive reports from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Institute of Medicine and the CDC have shown that there is no scientifically proven link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

If you have children who have not been vaccinated against measles, please make sure they get the shots.

Andrew Weil, M.D.

SOURCE:
"Measles History", U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, accessed February 4, 2015
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

kepp
02-10-2015, 08:23 AM
California warns against intentional measles exposures (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/02/10/california-warns-against-intentional-measles-exposures/)

Yes, people are actually doing this.

Loneiguana
02-10-2015, 08:40 AM
California warns against intentional measles exposures (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/02/10/california-warns-against-intentional-measles-exposures/)

Yes, people are actually doing this.

Yup

Parents are having measles parties instead of vaccinating children

http://national.suntimes.com/national-world-news/7/72/617353/measles-parties

If only there was some way to, I don't know, inject a child with a version of the measles that won't get the child sick, but will build up the immune system. Some sort of vaccine or something.


Hey, at least they have literature to help a child deal with having criminally stupid parents.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bNGvoLVYL.jpg

/yes, that is a real book

Eleazar
02-10-2015, 08:42 AM
California warns against intentional measles exposures (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/02/10/california-warns-against-intentional-measles-exposures/)

Yes, people are actually doing this.

:facepalm:

Otter
02-10-2015, 12:22 PM
Don't you want your kids to get chicken pox while they're young?

I remember when our cousins got it our mom made us rub him so we'd get it as well.

Huh, just when I thought my uncle Charlie showing me his uncircumcised penis couldn't get any more awkward.

Mr. Laz
02-10-2015, 12:30 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Yes u should get vaccines. And so what if that makes your kid artistic. That don&#39;t always mean he&#39;s gay.</p>&mdash; Luwanda (@LuwandaJenkins) <a href="https://twitter.com/LuwandaJenkins/status/562707754679549952">February 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dave Lane
02-10-2015, 12:35 PM
Hey I'm artistic, or was that autistic?

WhawhaWhat
02-10-2015, 12:39 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Yes u should get vaccines. And so what if that makes your kid artistic. That don't always mean he's gay.</p>&mdash; Luwanda (@LuwandaJenkins) <a href="https://twitter.com/LuwandaJenkins/status/562707754679549952">February 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's true.

BigRedChief
02-10-2015, 03:03 PM
Yes u should get vaccines. And so what if that makes your kid artistic. That don't always mean he's gay.
— Luwanda (@LuwandaJenkins) February 3, 2015 (https://twitter.com/LuwandaJenkins/status/562707754679549952)
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>Vaccines make you gay?
http://www.englishbaby.com/dynamic/vocab_word/flashcard_image/0000/0000/0010/10667_1362714049_785974.png

RaiderH8r
02-10-2015, 03:10 PM
California warns against intentional measles exposures (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/02/10/california-warns-against-intentional-measles-exposures/)

Yes, people are actually doing this.

This is a special brand of stupid. It goes beyond irretrievably stupid and into a realm of heretofore unknown stupidity. They're really pioneers. Trailblazers of their age.

kepp
02-11-2015, 09:30 AM
A very compelling article/study: link (http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/nommr.html)
Autism in the absence of MMR vaccine
Clinical bottom line
Autism rates in Japan continued to rise after the withdrawal of MMR vaccine.

Reference
H Honda et al. No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 2005 doi: 10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01425.x
Background
A link has been postulated between the specific use of the triple MMR vaccine and the rise of childhood autism. Though very considerable research has shown there to be no connection, some people continue to believe in such a link and they propose use of single vaccines instead. In Japan, MMR vaccine was introduced in 1989, but the programme was terminated in 1993 and only single vaccines used thereafter.

The experience of Japan therefore constitutes a real-world experiment of replacing triple MMR vaccine with single vaccines because of problems with production. If the proponents of a link between MMR and autism are correct, the result should be that cases of autism fall after withdrawal of MMR.

Study
The study was conducted in a part of Yokohama with a population of about 300,000, and which was stable, or reflected changes typical for Japanese society as a whole, over the period of the study. The population was served by a special centre (Yokohama Rehabilitation Centre) that included a developmental psychiatry unit with early intervention services for developmental disorders. There was in place an early detection and intervention system that included specific routine checkups at four, 18 and 36 months, working to defined diagnostic criteria. At 18 months, about 90% of children participated in the programme, but those who did not, or those who were missed by the programme, could be referred by nurseries, paediatric clinics, or other services. These services began in 1987, two years before introduction of MMR.

Not only did the study have specific diagnostic criteria, therefore, but also ensured a complete coverage of a defined population, consistently over a period covering the introduction and withdrawal of the triple MMR vaccine.

Each birth cohort from 1988 to 1996 was followed up to age seven years, and results presented for all autistic spectrum disorders, for autism, and for autism associated with regression. The cumulative incidence per 10,000 children for each diagnosis was calculated for each year.

Results
Over the whole period, and with full follow up to age seven years in birth cohorts from 1988 to 1996, 278 children developed autistic spectrum disorder, 158 autism, and 120 other autistic spectrum conditions. Of those with autism, 60 had definite regression and another 12 probable regression according to defined tests.

In the 1988 birth cohort, 70% of children had the MMR triple vaccine, falling to 1.8% in the 1992 birth cohort. Thereafter no children had the MMR triple vaccine (Figure 1).

Figure 1: Autistic conditions in birth cohorts to age seven years, and MMR vaccination rate in Japan: autism, all autistic spectrum disorders (ASD), and autism with regression
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/noMMR.jpg
The incidence of all autistic spectrum disorders, and of autism, continued to rise after MMR vaccine was discontinued. The incidence of autism was higher in children born after 1992 who were not vaccinated with MMR than in children born before 1992 who were vaccinated. The incidence of autism associated with regression was the same during the use of MMR and after it was discontinued.

The increase of autistic spectrum disorders was evident in children with higher IQ.

Comment
The increase in autism and autistic spectrum disorders in this part of Yokohama displays the same increase over time seen in other parts of the world. Here, though, the increase occurred even when the MMR vaccine was withdrawn. This destroys any possible causative link between use of the vaccine and autism.

Perhaps the most important features of the study were that it comprehensively covered a population, and that the population was served by a special service testing children for developmental; disorders and using standard methods over the whole period. The quality and validity of the study is superlative, and the size good.

Whatever causes autism, it is not the MMR vaccine.

KC native
02-11-2015, 11:07 AM
I’m an Anti-Braker

Guys, I wanted to let you know about a personal decision I recently made. I don’t really feel like discussing it, but I want to put my position out there. Please be respectful. This is a really long post, but please read the whole thing.

I’m taking the brakes off my car. This isn’t a rash decision, so please listen up.

A few weeks ago I saw a car accident - two people went through an intersection at the same time. Both slammed on their brakes at the same time and collided. Fortunately no one was seriously injured.

But then it occurred to me - if they had just gone through the intersection, they wouldn’t have collided. The brakes CAUSED the accident!

So, I decided to do my own research and what I found was *staggering*: Hundreds of people every year are seriously injured by unnecessary braking. One time, I was driving in the snow and I just lightly tapped my brakes and it caused my car to COMPLETELY LOSE CONTROL. My brakes could have very easily gotten me killed. Even more astoundingly is how often brake pads will warp and distort rotors, causing bumpy rides and squeaky wheels.

And you know what? I also found that decades ago brakes weren’t even used! People would control their vehicle’s speed with downshifting and engine braking. Maybe it’s just coincidence, but back when engine braking was used there were almost no automotive fatalities. There were NEVER brake caused car accidents.

After doing some more digging, I found a nefarious plot - Mechanics: The very people who we trust to work on and care for our cars - get PAID to install and change brakes! You might THINK they care about our safety, or our cars - but they’re just in it for the $49.99 brake pad installations.

So I talked to my Mechanic about taking the brakes off my car and I was disgusted by how poorly he treated me. He accused me of being ignorant, when I was the one that looked up how much rotational torque brakes can put on your rotors. He didn’t even know how much torque a rotor can take before being warped!!! He said “rotors are designed to be compressed, that it isn’t actually a problem” just completely dismissing me.

Then he had the NERVE to say that my personal choice had consequences, that I would affect everyone around me. Well I’ve had it with him, I’m looking for a new mechanic. The problem is that so many mechanics are bought and paid by the automotive industry that ALL of them are insistent about my car having brakes. Most of them won’t even look at my car for other reasons, saying that a brakeless car could cause damage to their shop and other cars. What a bunch of bullshit, they just don’t like those who believe in alternative braking techniques.

Now of course big government is getting involved, saying that I *MUST* have brakes. That this isn’t just about me, and that I could hurt people. What happened to personal freedom? What happened to liberty?

So all I’m saying is, do your research. Don’t just listen to the NTSB and big automotive. I made a personal decision for my family, we just said no to brakes. We’ll be using natural remedies like Gravity, and putting our feet on the ground to stop. After all, if that was good enough for me when I was on my bike as a kid, it’s good enough for my children in my car.

Please keep the comments respectful!

Legal Disclaimer: I am not a mechanic and should not be considered a valid source of information for automotive inquiries.

Perfect mockery of the antivaccine idiots.

http://robertmoorejr.tumblr.com/post/110101466091/im-an-anti-braker

Mr. Laz
02-11-2015, 11:15 AM
Fluoride in the water is making you sterile!!

Eleazar
02-11-2015, 11:54 AM
Perfect mockery of the antivaccine idiots.

http://robertmoorejr.tumblr.com/post/110101466091/im-an-anti-braker

ROFL:clap:

|Zach|
02-11-2015, 05:25 PM
Perfect mockery of the antivaccine idiots.

http://robertmoorejr.tumblr.com/post/110101466091/im-an-anti-braker

ROFL

BigRedChief
02-11-2015, 08:17 PM
Perfect mockery of the antivaccine idiots.

http://robertmoorejr.tumblr.com/post/110101466091/im-an-anti-brakerThats Gold Jerry!

BigRedChief
02-16-2015, 11:25 PM
Why vaccines work?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3aNhzLUL2ys

Imon Yourside
02-16-2015, 11:53 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SIjm9w_-tNY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DaFace
04-11-2015, 10:52 PM
Sometimes when you play with fire, you get burned.

TL;DR - Anti-Vaxxer changes her mind after her 7 kids get whooping cough.

http://thescientificparent.org/learning-the-hard-way-my-journey-from-antivaxx-to-science/

Learning the Hard Way: My Journey from #AntiVaxx to Science
APRIL 8, 2015
Written by Tara Hills

I’m writing this from quarantine, the irony of which isn’t lost on me. Emotionally I’m a bit raw. Mentally a bit taxed. Physically I’m fine. All seven of my unvaccinated children have whooping cough, and the kicker is that they may have given it to my five month old niece, too young to be fully vaccinated.

We’d had a games night at our house in March, my brother-in-law had a full-blown cold, so when the kids started with a dry cough a few days later I didn’t think much of it. But a week after the symptoms started the kids weren’t improving, in fact they were getting worse. And the cough. No one had a runny nose or sneezing but they all had the same unproductive cough. Between coughing fits they were fine.

Then a few days later at midnight I snapped. My youngest three children were coughing so hard they would gag or vomit. I’d never seen anything like this before. Watching our youngest struggle with this choking cough, bringing up clear, stringy mucus – I had heard of this before somewhere. My mom said I had it when I was a kid. I snapped into ‘something is WRONG’ mode.

I jumped on Google to type in “child cough.” My kids had all but one symptom of pertussis, none of them had the characteristic “whoop.” But they had everything else.

We had vaccinated our first three children on an alternative schedule and our youngest four weren’t vaccinated at all. We stopped because we were scared and didn’t know who to trust. Was the medical community just paid off puppets of a Big Pharma-Government-Media conspiracy? Were these vaccines even necessary in this day and age? Were we unwittingly doing greater harm than help to our beloved children? So much smoke must mean a fire so we defaulted to the ‘do nothing and hope nothing bad happens’ position.

Symptoms and timeline of pertussis (whooping cough)
Learn the signs of pertussis (whooping cough). Click to enlarge.

For years relatives tried to persuade us to reconsider through emails and links, but this only irritated us and made us defensive. Secretly, I hoped I would find the proof I needed to hold the course, but deep down I was resigned to only find endless conflicting arguments that never resolved anything. No matter if we vaccinated or not, I thought, it would be nothing more than a coin toss with horrible risks either way.

When the Disneyland measles outbreak happened my husband and I agreed to take a new look and weigh the evidence on both sides. A friend suggested I write out my questions so we could tackle them one by one. Just getting it out on paper helped so much. I only ended up with a handful of questions. But more potent than my questions were my biases.

I just didn’t trust civic government, the medical community, the pharmaceutical industry, and people in general. By default, I had excluded all research available from any major, reputable organization. Could all the in-house, independent, peer-reviewed clinical trials, research papers and studies across the globe ALL be flawed, corrupt and untrustworthy?

The final shift came when I connected the dots between a small, but real measles outbreak in my personal circles this time last year. But for the grace of God, our family was one step from contracting measles in our mostly under-or-unvaccinated 7 kids. Maybe we could have weathered that storm unscathed in personal quarantine. But in the 4 highly contagious days before any symptoms show we easily could have passed on our infection to my sister’s toddlers or her 34-week-old son in the NICU.

When I connected the dates for everyone involved it chilled me to the bone. I looked again at the science and evidence for community immunity and found myself gripped with a very real sense of personal and social responsibility before God and man. The time had come to make a more fully informed decision than we did 6 years ago. I sat down with our family doctor and we put together a catch-up vaccination schedule for our children.

That schedule that was supposed to start the week after I found myself in the waiting room of the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario (CHEO) with my 10-month-old son, waiting to confirm if he had whooping cough.

I said before that the irony isn’t lost on me that I’m writing this from quarantine. For six years we were frozen in fear from vaccines, and now we are frozen because of the disease. My oldest two are getting better, the youngest four are getting worse and fast. Ottawa Public Health has been so helpful and communicative, trying to get us the help we need while keeping the community safe. We are under quarantine and starting antibiotics. Tonight, the baby started ‘whooping’. I did the right thing going to the hospital when I did. I can only hope this painfully honest sharing will help others.

I am not looking forward to any gloating or shame as this ‘defection’ from the antivaxx camp goes public, but, this isn’t a popularity contest. Right now my family is living the consequences of misinformation and fear. I understand that families in our community may be mad at us for putting their kids at risk. I want them to know that we tried our best to protect our kids when we were afraid of vaccination and we are doing our best now, for everyone’s sake, by getting them up to date. We can’t take it back … but we can learn from this and help others the same way we have been helped.

Vaccination is a serious decision about our personal and public health that can’t be made out of fear, capitulation or following any crowd. No one was more surprised than us to find solid answers that actually laid our fears to rest. I am confident that anyone with questions can find answers. I would only advise them to check your biases, sources and calendar: Time waits for no parent.

cdcox
04-11-2015, 11:18 PM
I can't imagine what it would be like to be trapped in a house with 7 kids with Queping cough.

Imon Yourside
04-12-2015, 03:10 AM
Fluoride in the water is making you sterile!!

No sir, Fluoride is actually perfectly safe to drink straight. If only all the majority of posters in this thread just had a nice huge swig..if only...

Eleazar
04-12-2015, 06:56 AM
I can't imagine what it would be like to be trapped in a house with 7 kids with Queping cough.

ROFL

Dave Lane
04-12-2015, 08:37 AM
Confirmation bias is a very strong thing. It's how competent normal adults make horrible irrational decisions by ignoring obvious evidence, logic and reason.

Fish
04-12-2015, 11:21 AM
My mom said I had it when I was a kid. I snapped into ‘something is WRONG’ mode.

I jumped on Google to type in “child cough.” My kids had all but one symptom of pertussis, none of them had the characteristic “whoop.” But they had everything else.

We had vaccinated our first three children on an alternative schedule and our youngest four weren’t vaccinated at all. We stopped because we were scared and didn’t know who to trust. Was the medical community just paid off puppets of a Big Pharma-Government-Media conspiracy? Were these vaccines even necessary in this day and age? Were we unwittingly doing greater harm than help to our beloved children? So much smoke must mean a fire so we defaulted to the ‘do nothing and hope nothing bad happens’ position.

:facepalm:JFC................

Eleazar
04-12-2015, 12:45 PM
Another crank with a Masters's of Everything from Google university :rolleyes:

unlurking
07-03-2015, 09:54 AM
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/07/us-sees-its-first-measles-death-in-a-dozen-years/

<header> US sees its first measles death in a dozen years
Today, Washington state health authorities announced (http://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/2015NewsReleases/15119WAMeaslesRelatedDeath) that an autopsy revealed that a woman who had died earlier this year had succumbed to the measles, making her the first US casualty of the disease in a dozen years. The announcement comes just days after California's decision to tighten its vaccination requirements (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/06/california-governor-signs-bill-eliminating-personal-vaccine-exemptions/).

</header> According to the announcement, the woman "had several other health conditions and was on medications that contributed to a suppressed immune system." Thus, even if she had been vaccinated (it wasn't clear if she had), her treatments put her at the mercy of herd immunity—having sufficient people immunized to prevent her from being exposed to the virus. But Washington has seen 11 cases of measles so far this year, half of them in the county where the woman was infected (Clallam, which covers the northern part of the Olympic Peninsula). The victim was apparently at a health clinic at the same time as an infectious individual.

In part because of her symptoms and other health conditions, the case was not diagnosed immediately but was only detected on autopsy.

Washington health authorities used the announcement to remind the public that "Public health officials recommend that everyone who is eligible for the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine get vaccinated so they can help protect themselves, their families, and the vulnerable people in their community."

BigRichard
08-08-2018, 06:56 AM
I like the idea behind this video regarding vaccines. It isn't really about the studies done on autism and vaccines(although it is briefly mentioned), it takes a much different approach and I think that is a better way. Although this is about vaccines I think it could apply to a lot of different topics such as politics.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Rzxr9FeZf1g?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>