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BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 02:20 PM
Most of you have heard of the recent measles outbreak mostly linked to Disneyland over the holidays. As of January 27th, a total of 73 cases of measles have been confirmed in the state of California, 48 of which are linked to those who recently visited Disneyland. There are 9 confirmed cases in the Bay Area. Alameda County has 5 cases, 4 of which are probably linked to Disneyland. There are 2 cases each in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, none of which are directly linked to Disneyland.

Since news of the outbreak, I think it is important to separate fact from the fear that is circulating in the media.

What is measles?

In order to understand what the fear is about, the first thing to understand is what exactly measles is. Measles, also called rubeola, is a highly-contagious viral infection. It is airborne, meaning that it is transmitted by droplets from an infected person’s nose and throat, such as during coughing and sneezing. These droplets can survive in the air and on objects and surfaces for up to 2 hours, but are rapidly killed by heat, light (UV and visible), detergents and organic solvents. Once exposed, the measles virus begins to multiply in the nasal cavity. Two to three days later, the virus continues to replicate and spread from the nasopharynx to the lymphatic system, and eventually to the respiratory tract and other organs. It typically takes 10-12 days for a person to develop symptoms after exposure to measles (the incubation period), but this may be as short as 7 or as long as 18 days.

Takeaway: If the viral replication can be stopped at the time of exposure, this may help prevent actual infection. Consider daily nasal irrigation with Xlear saline nasal spray, neti pot, Neilmed sinus rinse or equivalent. The measles virus is easily inactivated – wash your hands frequently and before you touch your face or eat.

Initial symptoms mimic influenza symptoms, with a fever which can rise as high as 103°F-105°F. This is followed by coryza (runny nose), cough, and conjunctivitis (pinkeye) – the 3 "C’s". With our concurrent flu season in full force, it can be very challenging to differentiate initial measles symptoms with flu symptoms. However, it is during these early stages of measles that we can see what are called "Koplik spots", which are considered definitive for measles. These are discrete white spots on a red base on the inner cheek that appear 1-2 days before, and last 1-2 days after the measles rash develops, and unfortunately are usually gone by the time patients present to a clinic with a rash. The measles rash will develop 2-4 days after upper respiratory symptoms appear and last for approximately 5-6 days. The rash is red and blotchy and some spots may merge, typically starting on the face and moving down the body to the hands and feet, and disappears in that same order. The rash is generally not itchy.

An infected person is contagious for about 4 days before symptoms start, and until 4 days after the rash develops. The secondary "attack rate", or the likelihood of an unprotected person actually getting the infection if they are exposed during this period, is over 90%. The attack rate is highest the younger you are – 94% for children 1 to 4 years of age, and 91% for children 5 to 14 years of age.

The prognosis for measles is generally good. Complications are more likely to occur in children younger than 5 years of age and adults over 20 years of age, and in individuals with vitamin A deficiency, malnutrition, and immunodeficiency. The risk of death is approximately 1-2 per 1,000 cases – with the highest fatality rates seen in children less than 5 years, and in particular those infants aged 4-12 months. Common relatively minor complications include diarrhea in 8%, ear infections in 7% and pneumonia in 6%. While rare, encephalitis (brain infection) can occur in about 1 per 1,000 cases of measles, with an approximately 15% fatality rate, and 25% who will continue to have some residual neurologic damage. While very rare, with anywhere from 1-22 per 100,000 cases, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very serious complication of measles. This is a fatal, progressive degenerative neurologic disease that occurs unpredictably, 7-10 years after a seemingly full recovery from the initial measles infection, resulting eventually in behavioral and cognitive changes, seizures, coma, and death. The risk of SSPE may be higher for patients who contract measles before 2 years of age.

Treatment for measles is supportive. Several studies have shown that high-dose vitamin A may be useful in reducing complications and death from measles, especially in those patients who are deficient in vitamin A. The World Health Organization recommends high-dose vitamin A for all children with acute measles, regardless of vitamin A status. High doses of vitamin A for prolonged periods may have associated toxicity. However, this 2-day protocol is very unlikely to lead to toxicity in the short term. The protocol is as follows – Vitamin A is administered once daily for 2 days at the following doses:
• 50,000 IU for infants aged less than 6 months
• 100,000 IU for infants aged 6–11 months
• 200,000 IU for children aged 12 months and older
Takeaway: Measles is generally a self-limiting disease in most healthy children. Complications are more likely to be severe in individuals who are deficient in vitamin A and malnourished in general. Eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Avoid sugars and processed foods. Supplement with vitamin D as one of the most important ways to boost your immune system through the winter. Ensure that you and your children get at least the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A. Remember that cod liver oil is a great source of vitamin A AND vitamin D. While optimal daily supplementation levels are not entirely clear, the following are the "tolerable upper intake levels" of vitamin A in international units (IU) as set forth by the Food and Nutrition Board:
Life Stage Upper Limit
Birth to 12 months 2,000 IU
Children 1–3 years 2,000 IU
Children 4–8 years 3,000 IU
Children 9–13 years 5,667 IU
Teens 14–18 years 9,333 IU
Adults 19 years and older 10,000 IU

Antipyretics (fever reducers such as Tylenol and Motrin) have been found in many studies to prolong the course of viral illnesses, like chickenpox and measles. Studies have linked the use of antipyretics for the fever with measles to a significantly higher risk of prolonged illness, complications, and mortality. In fact, one study of children in Ghana during a measles outbreak found higher survival rates in children who had higher fevers and more severe rashes.

Takeaway: Fever is the body’s natural and useful response to infection. Do not succumb to fever phobia. In general, limit antipyretics for when your child is uncomfortable enough that it interferes with staying hydrated or getting adequate sleep. There are many homeopathic medicines that can be used to help the body naturally regulate its fever response. Please consult with your doctor for the most appropriate natural and/or conventional medicines to use should your child develop a fever.

What about the MMR vaccine?

The only vaccination against measles that is currently available is the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine, and MMRV (MMR plus chickenpox) vaccine. The measles vaccine is no longer available as a separate single-strain vaccine. The MMR vaccine is a "live-virus" vaccine, which means that you are receiving a live, but weakened version of the viruses to create a mild infection with subsequent antibody response and protection. MMR is typically first given between 12-18 months of age, with a second MMR given between 4-6 years of age. After the first dose, approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age, and approximately 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age will develop protective measles antibodies. Even one dose can be highly effective in preventing measles. But a second dose (technically not a booster) at 4-6 years of age is recommended to capture the 2-5% of children who did not respond to the first vaccine. This second dose may be administered as soon as 4 weeks after the first dose should there be a question as to efficacy. For children who have had their first MMR but are not yet at the recommended age for their second dose, options include receiving their second MMR before they are 4-6 years of age, or doing bloodwork to check for protective antibody levels (measles titers). Adults do not need a booster if they received a measles vaccine after 1968. For adults who are not sure that they’ve been vaccinated, options include checking measles titers or receiving an MMR vaccine. In outbreaks, the CDC may recommend that children as young as 6 months of age receive the MMR. Children between 6-12 months of age are less likely to respond to the vaccine and make appropriate antibodies, and are still recommended to receive the recommended 2 doses at 12-18 months and 4-6 years. There is evidence that vaccination within 72 hours of exposure to measles may prevent disease in those who are unprotected.

The vaccination status is known for 39 of the California patients who have contracted measles. Of these 39 patients, 32 were unvaccinated and 7 were fully vaccinated.

Takeaway: Even one dose of the MMR appears to be very effective in providing immunity against measles. However, no vaccine is 100% effective. A second dose may be required for some patients, especially those who received their first vaccine at less than 12 months of age. Post-exposure vaccination within 72 hours may be effective. Ensuring adequate nutrition and vitamin A as above continue to be important for all individuals regardless of vaccination status.

Because it is a live-virus vaccine, the MMR is not to be given to pregnant women or to individuals who are immunocompromised or are receiving immunosuppressant therapies. It is also contraindicated in individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to gelatin, neomycin or any other component of the vaccine. Precautions should be taken in patients with moderate or severe illness with or without fever, or a personal or family history of febrile seizures. The measles virus used in the vaccine is grown in chicken embryo culture, but anaphylactic egg allergy is not considered a contraindication to the vaccine.

Takeaway: There are individuals for whom the MMR vaccine is not an option. Unprotected individuals who cannot receive the MMR vaccine (infants, pregnant women, immunocompromised individuals) may rely on "herd immunity", or high vaccination rates in the community, for their protection.

What are the possible adverse reactions to the MMR? Just as no vaccine is 100% effective, no vaccine is 100% risk-free. The most common adverse reaction is typically due to the replication of the measles vaccine virus to induce a mild illness. This typically occurs 5-12 days after receiving the vaccine, and can include fever for 1-2 days and a rash. Joint pains are seen in 25% of susceptible adult women, due to the rubella component. The risk of febrile seizures increases 3-fold 8-14 days after the MMR vaccine, but is still relatively low. Anaphylaxis and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) are other rare complications. There may be a link between the measles vaccine and SSPE of about 1 case per million vaccine doses, which is significantly lower than the risk of SSPE from a primary measles infection.

Of biggest concern for many parents is the proposed link between vaccines and autism, and in particular between the MMR vaccine and autism. While the media and common public opinion are quick to say that the link between vaccines and autism has been absolutely disproved, they have not done their due diligence research. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP, also called “vaccine court”), established by Congress in 1986, was created to provide a “no-fault” mechanism to compensate individuals found to be injured by vaccines. By 2010, the VICP had awarded nearly $2 billion to individuals who had suffered vaccine injuries. It has awarded at least 4 families millions of dollars after finding that their children had suffered from brain damage (encephalitis) caused by the MMR and other vaccines, which then resulted in regressive autistic symptoms. Since its inception, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars, to 1,322 families whose children were found to have suffered brain damage from vaccines. In August of 2014, a top research scientist whistleblower at the CDC released information that the CDC had manipulated data in an MMR and autism study to obscure the higher incidence of autism found in African-American boys who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age.

That being said, it remains that most children will not develop significant adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Is there any way to predict which children may be more vulnerable to vaccine reactions, or any way to prevent these reactions from occurring? In taking a closer look at the cases that were won in vaccine court, one case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by aggravating an underlying mitochondrial disorder, and another case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by triggering an autoimmune reaction called Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which caused irreparable brain inflammation. One might conjecture then, that a child who has a suspected mitochondrial dysfunction, or who has a strong family history of autoimmune illness, may be more at risk for these rare, albeit devastating, reactions. What are possible signs of mitochondrial dysfunction – low muscle tone, easy fatigue/poor endurance, delayed developmental milestones, regressions with illness, and lab evidence (including high serum lactate, high serum CK, high AST, low serum carnitine).

A possible mitochondrial dysfunction and/or family history of autoimmune illness are not absolute contraindications to the MMR vaccine. They are, however, precautions. The risk of adverse vaccine reactions must be weighed against the risk of actual disease. In 2000, measles was thought to be mostly eliminated in the US. Measles is now on the rise, and hopefully will not reach the epidemic proportions it has in Europe. Now that the measles infection rate may potentially be climbing, this risk must be taken into account. Likewise, the community benefit of herd protection for infants and immunocompromised individuals must also be considered. These are all considerations that each parent must take into account for their own children. For children who may have mitochondrial dysfunction, or a family history of autoimmune illness, there are supplements that may help to reduce and prevent potential adverse reactions from the MMR vaccine while still enabling the measles protection that it can afford.

Takeaway: Most children will not experience adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Given the increasing prevalence of measles, consideration should be given to getting vaccinated, either now or within 72 hours of known exposure. However, if there is a possibility of mitochondrial dysfunction, or strong family history of autoimmune illness or neurodegenerative disease you may want to reconsider. Supplements to help reduce the risk of adverse reactions. These may include carnitine, coQ10, milk thistle, vitamin A, homeopathic Thuja, and others.



Good information on Hib and MMR.
Most of you have heard of the recent measles outbreak mostly linked to Disneyland over the holidays. As of this writing, a total of 73 cases of measles have been confirmed in the state of California, 48 of which are linked to those who recently visited Disneyland. There are 9 confirmed cases in the Bay Area. Alameda County has 5 cases, 4 of which are probably linked to Disneyland. There are 2 cases each in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, none of which are directly linked to Disneyland.

Since news of the outbreak, I have received numerous questions about measles and the MMR vaccine. My goal in writing this newsletter now is to hopefully shed some light on this measles epidemic, and to separate fact from the fear that is circulating in the media.

What is measles?

In order to understand what the fear is about, the first thing to understand is what exactly measles is. Measles, also called rubeola, is a highly-contagious viral infection. It is airborne, meaning that it is transmitted by droplets from an infected person’s nose and throat, such as during coughing and sneezing. These droplets can survive in the air and on objects and surfaces for up to 2 hours, but are rapidly killed by heat, light (UV and visible), detergents and organic solvents. Once exposed, the measles virus begins to multiply in the nasal cavity. Two to three days later, the virus continues to replicate and spread from the nasopharynx to the lymphatic system, and eventually to the respiratory tract and other organs. It typically takes 10-12 days for a person to develop symptoms after exposure to measles (the incubation period), but this may be as short as 7 or as long as 18 days.

Takeaway: If the viral replication can be stopped at the time of exposure, this may help prevent actual infection. Consider daily nasal irrigation with Xlear saline nasal spray, neti pot, Neilmed sinus rinse or equivalent. The measles virus is easily inactivated – wash your hands frequently and before you touch your face or eat.

Initial symptoms mimic influenza symptoms, with a fever which can rise as high as 103°F-105°F. This is followed by coryza (runny nose), cough, and conjunctivitis (pinkeye) – the 3 "C’s". With our concurrent flu season in full force, it can be very challenging to differentiate initial measles symptoms with flu symptoms. However, it is during these early stages of measles that we can see what are called "Koplik spots", which are considered definitive for measles. These are discrete white spots on a red base on the inner cheek that appear 1-2 days before, and last 1-2 days after the measles rash develops, and unfortunately are usually gone by the time patients present to a clinic with a rash. The measles rash will develop 2-4 days after upper respiratory symptoms appear and last for approximately 5-6 days. The rash is red and blotchy and some spots may merge, typically starting on the face and moving down the body to the hands and feet, and disappears in that same order. The rash is generally not itchy.

An infected person is contagious for about 4 days before symptoms start, and until 4 days after the rash develops. The secondary "attack rate", or the likelihood of an unprotected person actually getting the infection if they are exposed during this period, is over 90%. The attack rate is highest the younger you are – 94% for children 1 to 4 years of age, and 91% for children 5 to 14 years of age.

The prognosis for measles is generally good. Complications are more likely to occur in children younger than 5 years of age and adults over 20 years of age, and in individuals with vitamin A deficiency, malnutrition, and immunodeficiency. The risk of death is approximately 1-2 per 1,000 cases – with the highest fatality rates seen in children less than 5 years, and in particular those infants aged 4-12 months. Common relatively minor complications include diarrhea in 8%, ear infections in 7% and pneumonia in 6%. While rare, encephalitis (brain infection) can occur in about 1 per 1,000 cases of measles, with an approximately 15% fatality rate, and 25% who will continue to have some residual neurologic damage. While very rare, with anywhere from 1-22 per 100,000 cases, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very serious complication of measles. This is a fatal, progressive degenerative neurologic disease that occurs unpredictably, 7-10 years after a seemingly full recovery from the initial measles infection, resulting eventually in behavioral and cognitive changes, seizures, coma, and death. The risk of SSPE may be higher for patients who contract measles before 2 years of age.

Treatment for measles is supportive. Several studies have shown that high-dose vitamin A may be useful in reducing complications and death from measles, especially in those patients who are deficient in vitamin A. The World Health Organization recommends high-dose vitamin A for all children with acute measles, regardless of vitamin A status. High doses of vitamin A for prolonged periods may have associated toxicity. However, this 2-day protocol is very unlikely to lead to toxicity in the short term. The protocol is as follows – Vitamin A is administered once daily for 2 days at the following doses:
• 50,000 IU for infants aged less than 6 months
• 100,000 IU for infants aged 6–11 months
• 200,000 IU for children aged 12 months and older
Takeaway: Measles is generally a self-limiting disease in most healthy children. Complications are more likely to be severe in individuals who are deficient in vitamin A and malnourished in general. Eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Avoid sugars and processed foods. Supplement with vitamin D as one of the most important ways to boost your immune system through the winter. Ensure that you and your children get at least the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A. Remember that cod liver oil is a great source of vitamin A AND vitamin D. While optimal daily supplementation levels are not entirely clear, the following are the "tolerable upper intake levels" of vitamin A in international units (IU) as set forth by the Food and Nutrition Board:
Life Stage Upper Limit
Birth to 12 months 2,000 IU
Children 1–3 years 2,000 IU
Children 4–8 years 3,000 IU
Children 9–13 years 5,667 IU
Teens 14–18 years 9,333 IU
Adults 19 years and older 10,000 IU

Antipyretics (fever reducers such as Tylenol and Motrin) have been found in many studies to prolong the course of viral illnesses, like chickenpox and measles. Studies have linked the use of antipyretics for the fever with measles to a significantly higher risk of prolonged illness, complications, and mortality. In fact, one study of children in Ghana during a measles outbreak found higher survival rates in children who had higher fevers and more severe rashes.

Takeaway: Fever is the body’s natural and useful response to infection. Do not succumb to fever phobia. In general, limit antipyretics for when your child is uncomfortable enough that it interferes with staying hydrated or getting adequate sleep. There are many homeopathic medicines that can be used to help the body naturally regulate its fever response. Please consult with your doctor for the most appropriate natural and/or conventional medicines to use should your child develop a fever.

What about the MMR vaccine?

The only vaccination against measles that is currently available is the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine, and MMRV (MMR plus chickenpox) vaccine. The measles vaccine is no longer available as a separate single-strain vaccine. The MMR vaccine is a "live-virus" vaccine, which means that you are receiving a live, but weakened version of the viruses to create a mild infection with subsequent antibody response and protection. MMR is typically first given between 12-18 months of age, with a second MMR given between 4-6 years of age. After the first dose, approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age, and approximately 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age will develop protective measles antibodies. Even one dose can be highly effective in preventing measles. But a second dose (technically not a booster) at 4-6 years of age is recommended to capture the 2-5% of children who did not respond to the first vaccine. This second dose may be administered as soon as 4 weeks after the first dose should there be a question as to efficacy. For children who have had their first MMR but are not yet at the recommended age for their second dose, options include receiving their second MMR before they are 4-6 years of age, or doing bloodwork to check for protective antibody levels (measles titers). Adults do not need a booster if they received a measles vaccine after 1968. For adults who are not sure that they’ve been vaccinated, options include checking measles titers or receiving an MMR vaccine. In outbreaks, the CDC may recommend that children as young as 6 months of age receive the MMR. Children between 6-12 months of age are less likely to respond to the vaccine and make appropriate antibodies, and are still recommended to receive the recommended 2 doses at 12-18 months and 4-6 years. There is evidence that vaccination within 72 hours of exposure to measles may prevent disease in those who are unprotected.

The vaccination status is known for 39 of the California patients who have contracted measles. Of these 39 patients, 32 were unvaccinated and 7 were fully vaccinated.

Takeaway: Even one dose of the MMR appears to be very effective in providing immunity against measles. However, no vaccine is 100% effective. A second dose may be required for some patients, especially those who received their first vaccine at less than 12 months of age. Post-exposure vaccination within 72 hours may be effective. Ensuring adequate nutrition and vitamin A as above continue to be important for all individuals regardless of vaccination status.

Because it is a live-virus vaccine, the MMR is not to be given to pregnant women or to individuals who are immunocompromised or are receiving immunosuppressant therapies. It is also contraindicated in individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to gelatin, neomycin or any other component of the vaccine. Precautions should be taken in patients with moderate or severe illness with or without fever, or a personal or family history of febrile seizures. The measles virus used in the vaccine is grown in chicken embryo culture, but anaphylactic egg allergy is not considered a contraindication to the vaccine.

Takeaway: There are individuals for whom the MMR vaccine is not an option. Unprotected individuals who cannot receive the MMR vaccine (infants, pregnant women, immunocompromised individuals) may rely on "herd immunity", or high vaccination rates in the community, for their protection.

What are the possible adverse reactions to the MMR? Just as no vaccine is 100% effective, no vaccine is 100% risk-free. The most common adverse reaction is typically due to the replication of the measles vaccine virus to induce a mild illness. This typically occurs 5-12 days after receiving the vaccine, and can include fever for 1-2 days and a rash. Joint pains are seen in 25% of susceptible adult women, due to the rubella component. The risk of febrile seizures increases 3-fold 8-14 days after the MMR vaccine, but is still relatively low. Anaphylaxis and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) are other rare complications. There may be a link between the measles vaccine and SSPE of about 1 case per million vaccine doses, which is significantly lower than the risk of SSPE from a primary measles infection.

Of biggest concern for many parents is the proposed link between vaccines and autism, and in particular between the MMR vaccine and autism. While the media and common public opinion are quick to say that the link between vaccines and autism has been absolutely disproved, they have not done their due diligence research. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP, also called “vaccine court”), established by Congress in 1986, was created to provide a “no-fault” mechanism to compensate individuals found to be injured by vaccines. By 2010, the VICP had awarded nearly $2 billion to individuals who had suffered vaccine injuries. It has awarded at least 4 families millions of dollars after finding that their children had suffered from brain damage (encephalitis) caused by the MMR and other vaccines, which then resulted in regressive autistic symptoms. Since its inception, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars, to 1,322 families whose children were found to have suffered brain damage from vaccines. In August of 2014, a top research scientist whistleblower at the CDC released information that the CDC had manipulated data in an MMR and autism study to obscure the higher incidence of autism found in African-American boys who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age.

That being said, it remains that most children will not develop significant adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Is there any way to predict which children may be more vulnerable to vaccine reactions, or any way to prevent these reactions from occurring? In taking a closer look at the cases that were won in vaccine court, one case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by aggravating an underlying mitochondrial disorder, and another case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by triggering an autoimmune reaction called Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which caused irreparable brain inflammation. One might conjecture then, that a child who has a suspected mitochondrial dysfunction, or who has a strong family history of autoimmune illness, may be more at risk for these rare, albeit devastating, reactions. What are possible signs of mitochondrial dysfunction – low muscle tone, easy fatigue/poor endurance, delayed developmental milestones, regressions with illness, and lab evidence (including high serum lactate, high serum CK, high AST, low serum carnitine).

A possible mitochondrial dysfunction and/or family history of autoimmune illness are not absolute contraindications to the MMR vaccine. They are, however, precautions. The risk of adverse vaccine reactions must be weighed against the risk of actual disease. In 2000, measles was thought to be mostly eliminated in the US. Measles is now on the rise, and hopefully will not reach the epidemic proportions it has in Europe. Now that the measles infection rate may potentially be climbing, this risk must be taken into account. Likewise, the community benefit of herd protection for infants and immunocompromised individuals must also be considered. These are all considerations that each parent must take into account for their own children. For children who may have mitochondrial dysfunction, or a family history of autoimmune illness, there are supplements that may help to reduce and prevent potential adverse reactions from the MMR vaccine while still enabling the measles protection that it can afford.

Takeaway: Most children will not experience adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Given the increasing prevalence of measles, consideration should be given to getting vaccinated, either now or within 72 hours of known exposure. However, if there is a possibility of mitochondrial dysfunction, or strong family history of autoimmune illness or neurodegenerative disease, Dr. Song and Dr. Ruiz are available to consult with you on supplements to help reduce the risk of adverse reactions. These may include carnitine, coQ10, milk thistle, vitamin A, homeopathic Thuja, and others.

WhawhaWhat
01-28-2015, 02:22 PM
Anti-vaxxers should be used a trade bait with ISIS.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 02:24 PM
Since KC Stalker will never let this go unless I post something on this topic here is what I consider to be a very good take. I am not interested getting called endless names though so take it for what it is.

Bufkin
01-28-2015, 02:25 PM
Anti-vaxxers should be used a trade bait with ISIS.
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-28-2015, 02:26 PM
This will be fun.

The Franchise
01-28-2015, 02:27 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

I just don't want them to walk funny.

Eleazar
01-28-2015, 02:28 PM
A chart from last spring.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0529-measles.jpg

Bugeater
01-28-2015, 02:29 PM
Doesn't this crackpot bullshit belong in DC?

|Zach|
01-28-2015, 02:31 PM
Anti-vaxxers should be used a trade bait with ISIS.

Perfect situation.

MTG#10
01-28-2015, 02:31 PM
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Orangutan-Didnt-Read-It-Dance-In-The-Rainforest-From-a-Commercial.gif

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 02:34 PM
A chart from last spring.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/images/p0529-measles.jpg

So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

ptlyon
01-28-2015, 02:35 PM
Thanks BD. I know people are trying to make fun of this thread because it's too long. It's sad.

I'll read it when I give a shit.

Frosty
01-28-2015, 02:37 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

For now...

KC native
01-28-2015, 02:44 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

Yes, because vaccination has been extremely successful against the measles.

Dumbfucks like you and the other dumbfucks in California are allowing it to come back.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 02:45 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.
So 52 million people visited Disneyland during this outbreak?

KC native
01-28-2015, 02:45 PM
Anti-vaxxers should be used a trade bait with ISIS.

Absolutely.

They can live in their ass-backwards, stone age ignorance together.

Graystoke
01-28-2015, 02:46 PM
For now...

True.
As more and more people choose not to vaccinate, herd immunity will drop below the critical point.
For each virus, statisticians are able to calculate the minimum percentage of community immunity necessary to achieve herd immunity and prevent an outbreak. Though we only need about 85 percent of the community to have immunity to rubella, smallpox and diphtheria to prevent an outbreak, diseases such as whooping cough (pertussis) and measles require at least 94 percent immunity.

kepp
01-28-2015, 02:46 PM
I appreciate the information. Thanks.

Pablo
01-28-2015, 02:48 PM
BDP;DR

KC native
01-28-2015, 02:49 PM
What happened to H1N1/Ebolaids (the poster)?

Wasn't he an epidemiologist?

kepp
01-28-2015, 02:50 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

When my wife and I were deciding whether or not to vaccinate our first child I was fearful of this. Then I actually read some studies and learned some stuff.

I don't understand people not thinking about the herd principle of vaccination.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 02:53 PM
Disneyland is a cesspool of germs and bacteria. In April 2014, my then 6 year old had two "bites" on her leg about four days after going to the park (we have Annual Passes, so we go all time). The next day, she had them on her lower back and later, on her feet. They weren't "bites" but chicken pox. Fortunately, she had two vaccinations and had an extremely mild case, with about 20 pox in total.

Unfortunately, my 18 month old at the time only had a single shot. She had a bad case, with more than 500 on her legs, bottom, and face. The doctor prescribed acyclovir, and her case didn't worsen but they took more than a month to completely disappear.

It would be an understatement to say I was angry about it. These Anti-Vaxxers are lunatics, IMO, and if they continue this insane practice, these once controlled diseases will return.

It's beyond dumb.

KC native
01-28-2015, 02:56 PM
Disneyland is a cesspool of germs and bacteria. In April 2014, my then 6 year old had two "bites" on her leg. The next day, she had them on her lower back and later, on her feet. They weren't "bites" but chicken pox. Fortunately, she had two vaccinations and had an extremely mild case, with about 20 pox in total.

Unfortunately, my 18 month old at the time only had a single shot. She had a bad case, with more than 500 on her legs, bottom, and face. The doctor prescribed acyclovir, and her case didn't worsen but they took more than a month to completely disappear.

It would be an understatement to say I was angry about it. These Anti-Vaxxers are lunatics, IMO, and if they continue this insane practice, these once controlled diseases will return.

It's beyond dumb.

Yea, my wife contracted chicken pox while substitute teaching for Fort Worth School district (despite having had it as a kid).

We then found out that it was extremely easy to get a religious waiver so you don't have to vaccinate your kids for FWISD. We were fucking pissed.

That chicken pox outbreak made the district clamp down on those waivers considerably.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 02:56 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

LMAO

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 02:56 PM
So 52 million people visited Disneyland during this outbreak?

Are you really scared of the big bad measles, Dane?

kepp
01-28-2015, 02:56 PM
Disneyland is a cesspool of germs and bacteria. In April 2014, my then 6 year old had two "bites" on her leg about four days after going to the park (we have Annual Passes, so we go all time). The next day, she had them on her lower back and later, on her feet. They weren't "bites" but chicken pox. Fortunately, she had two vaccinations and had an extremely mild case, with about 20 pox in total.

Unfortunately, my 18 month old at the time only had a single shot. She had a bad case, with more than 500 on her legs, bottom, and face. The doctor prescribed acyclovir, and her case didn't worsen but they took more than a month to completely disappear.

It would be an understatement to say I was angry about it. These Anti-Vaxxers are lunatics, IMO, and if they continue this insane practice, these once controlled diseases will return.

It's beyond dumb.

Unchecked immigration will speed it up greatly.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2015, 02:57 PM
Doesn't this crackpot bullshit belong in DC?

If so, they need to rename that forum: D.C., Vatican & Healthcare forum, no?

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 02:57 PM
Yea, my wife contracted chicken pox while substitute teaching for Fort Worth School district (despite having had it as a kid).

We then found out that it was extremely easy to get a religious waiver so you don't have to vaccinate your kids for FWISD. We were fucking pissed.

That chicken pox outbreak made the district clamp down on those waivers considerably.

A religious waiver? Good grief.

kepp
01-28-2015, 02:58 PM
Yea, my wife contracted chicken pox while substitute teaching for Fort Worth School district (despite having had it as a kid).

We then found out that it was extremely easy to get a religious waiver so you don't have to vaccinate your kids for FWISD. We were ****ing pissed.

That chicken pox outbreak made the district clamp down on those waivers considerably.

I believe a family should be able to choose to not vaccinate. It's their lives...their family. But if you're going to go to publicly-funded schools, vaccination should be mandatory IMO.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 02:59 PM
Are you really scared of the big bad measles, Dane?

What I'm not scared of is science. I was vaccinated, as were my four siblings and their eight children, along with both of my children.

Everyone is happy and healthy.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:00 PM
A religious waiver? Good grief.

Yes, for fucking public school.

I couldn't believe they even did them.

I remember one of my friends had to leave the Raytown school district when we were growing up because they were Christian Scientists (so they didn't believe in modern medicine or some shit like that) and said they couldn't vaccinate. The school district told them to GTFO.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:00 PM
I believe a family should be able to choose to not vaccinate. It's their lives...their family. But if you're going to go to publicly-funded schools, vaccination should be mandatory IMO.

Completely agree.

Graystoke
01-28-2015, 03:01 PM
Are you really scared of the big bad measles, Dane?

Measles does indeed have a fatality rate.
Its not about being scared. Its about being smart. The risk from Vaccines are incredibly low. It not only protects you, but the community.
Why when we have diseases beat and we fail to take vaccines is beyond me.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 03:01 PM
I believe a family should be able to choose to not vaccinate. It's their lives...their family. But if you're going to go to publicly-funded schools, vaccination should be mandatory IMO.

Good luck getting into a private school wthout being vacinated. People paying $10k-$25k per aren't doing so if their children are at risk of being exposed to once eradicated childhood diseases.

Brock
01-28-2015, 03:04 PM
Herpes doesn't kill you and I don't want it either. Keep your damn bugs to yourself.

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 03:05 PM
Harsh take:

People who don't vaccinate their kids (for "belief" reasons regarding autism and etc. - free pass given to those who CANNOT be vaccinated) deserve to watch their kid blinded, deafened, disfigured or even killed by a disease that a vaccine would have been completely preventable.

They're not just putting their kids at risk by not vaccinating. They're putting countless others at risk, too.

Fuck them.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:06 PM
Harsh take:

People who don't vaccinate their kids (for "belief" reasons regarding autism and etc. - free pass given to those who CANNOT be vaccinated) deserve to watch their kid blinded, deafened, disfigured or even killed by a disease that a vaccine would have been completely preventable.

They're not just putting their kids at risk by not vaccinating. They're putting countless others at risk, too.

Fuck them.

I don't know about deserving it, but yea.

Pablo
01-28-2015, 03:06 PM
I agree. Don't want your kids to be artistic.

Liberal Arts degrees are worthless.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 03:09 PM
What I'm not scared of is science. I was vaccinated, as were my four siblings and their eight children, along with both of my children.

Everyone is happy and healthy.


I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame. This very simply should be a choice. I choose 1 in a million chance of catching something over the alternative. These are simply facts. I look at health a little differently. Monthly my entire family is checked to make sure every vitamin and mineral in our system is as close to perfect as possible and there are no allergies effecting us. We caught the flu this year but didn't even know it until we got our readout. IT was the sore throat, stuffy head day. Big wow. If people spent as much time and effort at keeping their body and immunity systems up as they do running around like chicken little trying to control what others do in their life this wouldn't even be an issue.

DaFace
01-28-2015, 03:10 PM
Harsh take:

People who don't vaccinate their kids (for "belief" reasons regarding autism and etc. - free pass given to those who CANNOT be vaccinated) deserve to watch their kid blinded, deafened, disfigured or even killed by a disease that a vaccine would have been completely preventable.

They're not just putting their kids at risk by not vaccinating. They're putting countless others at risk, too.

Fuck them.

There was an article a while back about a politician who floated the idea of charging parents with involuntary manslaughter if their unvaccinated kid resulted in the death of another child (the vaccines don't work for everyone). It'd never work, but the parents really could be directly responsible for the death of another kid in that scenario.

AustinChief
01-28-2015, 03:14 PM
There was an article a while back about a politician who floated the idea of charging parents with involuntary manslaughter if their unvaccinated kid resulted in the death of another child (the vaccines don't work for everyone). It'd never work, but the parents really could be directly responsible for the death of another kid in that scenario.

Beat me to it. I was just going to say this. I would expand it to include culpability even if a direct linkage can not be established. For example, if your kid goes to a school where an outbreak occurs and your kid was not vaccinated... even if the other party cannot prove your kid exposed the other kid to the disease you would still carry liability... even if your kid never had the disease.

Obviously exceptions being made for those with legit medical conditions that preclude vaccinations.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame. This very simply should be a choice. I choose 1 in a million chance of catching something over the alternative. These are simply facts. I look at health a little differently. Monthly my entire family is checked to make sure every vitamin and mineral in our system is as close to perfect as possible and there are no allergies effecting us. We caught the flu this year but didn't even know it until we got our readout. IT was the sore throat, stuffy head day. Big wow. If people spent as much time and effort at keeping their body and immunity systems up as they do running around like chicken little trying to control what others do in their life this wouldn't even be an issue.

1,322/316,000,000=0.000004

316,000,000 is the total US population

Clearly vaccinations are the bigger risk. :rolleyes:

Edit: That's just a crude calculation based upon you 1,322 number (which may or may not be accurate and given your history, it's probably not).

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame. This very simply should be a choice. I choose 1 in a million chance of catching something over the alternative. These are simply facts. I look at health a little differently. Monthly my entire family is checked to make sure every vitamin and mineral in our system is as close to perfect as possible and there are no allergies effecting us. We caught the flu this year but didn't even know it until we got our readout. IT was the sore throat, stuffy head day. Big wow. If people spent as much time and effort at keeping their body and immunity systems up as they do running around like chicken little trying to control what others do in their life this wouldn't even be an issue.

If you want to make it a choice, you should face consequences if your choice endangers the health and welfare of others.

You kid catches the measles and spreads it around, including a beefed up version that infects several vaccinated kids?

You pay everyone's medical bills.

If one of those kids dies, you face negligent manslaughter charges.

Choice is fine. But your ability to choose ends when it starts unnecessarily endangering others.

Frosty
01-28-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame.

So now our court system is determining what is science and what isn't? Shyster lawyers, rent-an-experts and brain dead jurists, oh my!

LMAO

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 03:17 PM
You can't choose to shout fire in a crowded public venue. You can't choose to swing your fist in an arc that make direct contact with my body or that of anyone else (though you can choose to swing it however you want, otherwise).

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 03:20 PM
Good luck getting into a private school wthout being vacinated. People paying $10k-$25k per aren't doing so if their children are at risk of being exposed to once eradicated childhood diseases.

This isn't true either Dane. Right now we are in a public school that is level 10 so there is no reason to go private. I have 3 friends with kids in private schools that are not vaccinated. One is in Menlo Park, one in San Carlos and the other in either Woodside or Atherton, I forget.

Truth be know the very most educated and affluent are the ones not vaccinating. That well documented as I am sure you know.

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 03:25 PM
This isn't true either Dane. Right now we are in a public school that is level 10 so there is no reason to go private. I have 3 friends with kids in private schools that are not vaccinated. One is in Menlo Park, one in San Carlos and the other in either Woodside or Atherton, I forget.

Truth be know the very most educated and affluent are the ones not vaccinating. That well documented as I am sure you know.

I hope your kids are better at math than you are, or they're going to struggle in that school.

LoneWolf
01-28-2015, 03:25 PM
Truth be know the very most educated and affluent are the ones not vaccinating. That well documented as I am sure you know.

These two sentences prove that you are not one of the aforementioned "very most educated" people.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:26 PM
This isn't true either Dane. Right now we are in a public school that is level 10 so there is no reason to go private. I have 3 friends with kids in private schools that are not vaccinated. One is in Menlo Park, one in San Carlos and the other in either Woodside or Atherton, I forget.

Truth be know the very most educated and affluent are the ones not vaccinating. That well documented as I am sure you know.

Educated doesn't equal scientifically literate.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 03:26 PM
Beat me to it. I was just going to say this. I would expand it to include culpability even if a direct linkage can not be established. For example, if your kid goes to a school where an outbreak occurs and your kid was not vaccinated... even if the other party cannot prove your kid exposed the other kid to the disease you would still carry liability... even if your kid never had the disease.

Obviously exceptions being made for those with legit medical conditions that preclude vaccinations.

Yea, that makes about as much sense charging a driver for manslaughter for not having insurance when a drunk and driver crosses the middle line and dies in the accident. Brilliant.

Ebolapox
01-28-2015, 03:40 PM
What happened to H1N1/Ebolaids (the poster)?

Wasn't he an epidemiologist?

genetics phd student (done in less than a year) and undergrad in microbiology/biotech

and what should you know about measles?

VACCINATE YOUR FUCKING KIDS

ThaVirus
01-28-2015, 03:42 PM
Don't you want your kids to get chicken pox while they're young?

I remember when our cousins got it our mom made us rub him so we'd get it as well.

AustinChief
01-28-2015, 03:42 PM
Yea, that makes about as much sense charging a driver for manslaughter for not having insurance when a drunk and driver crosses the middle line and dies in the accident. Brilliant.

It's either increased liability or remove them entirely from public schools.

The fact is, unvaccinated children in public schools increase risks for everyone else. That (to me) is unacceptable because that risk factor is forced upon my (fictional) children because of someone else's poor choice.

There needs to be a "cost" associated with unnecessarily increasing risk. Mandating liability even without a direct link to causality is how I would levy that cost.

The science on this is clear. It doesn't cause autism, that claim is beyond ludicrous but even if it DID, the percentages would still NEVER add up to a logical conclusion of not vaccinating.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 03:43 PM
I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame. This very simply should be a choice. I choose 1 in a million chance of catching something over the alternative. These are simply facts. I look at health a little differently. Monthly my entire family is checked to make sure every vitamin and mineral in our system is as close to perfect as possible and there are no allergies effecting us. We caught the flu this year but didn't even know it until we got our readout. IT was the sore throat, stuffy head day. Big wow. If people spent as much time and effort at keeping their body and immunity systems up as they do running around like chicken little trying to control what others do in their life this wouldn't even be an issue.

Proper immunity isn't going to stave off deadly diseases in every living person.

And while it's tragic that 1,300 children were affected, there are more than 300 million people in the United States alone that were not affected. That's 0.00000450667% of Americans.

I'll stick with science.

scho63
01-28-2015, 03:44 PM
You can thank our wonderful president and all the illegals he keeps letting in for all these greats illnesses and old time diseases that are suddenly rearing their ugly head!

There is shit coming into this country we haven't send or had in decades.

I'm sure Rickets and Polio are next!

Ebolapox
01-28-2015, 03:44 PM
I'll include an excerpt of a text I wrote regarding vaccination and the dreaded autism...

-----------------------------------------

As always, one should take anything one hears (especially on the internet) with a grain of salt. I will, on occasion, use government websites as a source—as long as I can verify the source material itself. I will not be quoting blogs. I will not be quoting personal opinion. Data. Beautiful, published data.

As such, I’ll be sourcing all of my material. The best material to quote is peer-reviewed, unbiased and hypothesis-driven research that has been published. Unfortunately, not all of you will have access to the papers I quote— they are found using pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/). I do not expect that this will assuage all of your fears, nor will it be comprehensive. As a graduate student, I don’t exactly have the time to find everyone’s pet theory and debunk/clarify the causal link.

In 1998, an English surgeon/researcher published (in the prestigious journal Lancet) a paper entitled “Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children.” In this paper, he claimed that autism and colitis were caused by the mercury component in Thermisol.

[ASIDE: For those of you without a basic knowledge in how a vaccine works, here is a link (http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/Pages/Default.aspx). Mercury is used as an adjuvant, or something that activates the immune system. Your bodies contain two ‘layers’ of immunity, innate immunity and acquired immunity (active immunity—cell-mediated immunity, by T-cells and humoral immunity, by B-cells). As an aside, those that are immunodeficient are not immunized because there is too large a risk of averse reaction to vaccines and it may make them sick.]

However, it’s worth noting that neither of his claims was substantiated. Great claims require great evidence. For over a decade, researchers from around the world attempted to replicate his results (he, himself, was unable to replicate his results). The original paper was retracted and the researcher, Andrew Wakefield, was found to have been paid by a law firm that was going to use his study to sue the manufacturers of vaccines (conflict of interest, anyone?) Most of his co-authors withdrew their names from the study in 2004, yet the damage had already been done. In England, the incidences of Measles, which had been eliminated previously by stringent vaccination, has made a rapid comeback (http://adc.bmj.com/content/98/10/752.long).

Others are concerned that throughout history, vaccines have been shown to harm children and use this logic as the determining factor for not vaccinating their children. There are several types of vaccines, vaccines that contain a killed virus and those that contain a live, attenuated virus. In the USA before 2000, the common form of polio vaccine was the attenuated version. In our bodies, this form would very rarely revert to the virulent form of polio and paralysis would occur, which obviously is not what you want to happen to your child (I certainly don’t). However, we no longer use this form in this country. This vaccine, for what it’s worth, can be taken by mouth, and has been deemed safe by a medical researchers throughout the world. This tells me that, in spite of being safe, we are doing our best in this country to ensure that your children will get the best care and will be statistically less likely to get side-effects of vaccines. Certainly, there are those that will have allergic reactions to a vaccine. That’s why you get vaccines at your doctor’s office and not from the internet. Your medical professionals are incredibly capable of handling medical emergencies from the sniffles to a toxic reaction to mercury (that is no longer in Thermisol). By the way—Re: the new version of the polio vaccine? NOBODY has gotten polio from the new vaccine.

When I was a child, we got the pertussis vaccine. Research tells me that there were a range of side-effects (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1748773/) from fever to fainting. After 1990, however, they switched to a new pertussis vaccine that has milder side-effects. It’s important (at least to me) to weigh the possible consequences of vaccines. Generally, the side-effects are 1/1000 kids will experience prolonged crying due to mild pain. 1/20,000 will get bowel blockage (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1586/14760584.2014.942223). 1/1000 children who contract measles will get encephalitis, and 3/2000 will die. 1/2000 who get whooping cough will die (this is especially deadly to children). These diseases are completely, utterly preventable.



http://www.path.org/vaccineresources/files/Gellin-Should-I-Vaccinate.pdf

Frosty
01-28-2015, 03:45 PM
Don't you want your kids to get chicken pox while they're young?

I remember when our cousins got it our mom made us rub him so we'd get it as well.

I had it and my kids had it. I used to think the vaccine for it was stupid but in reality, actually having chicken pox opens you to a bunch of nasty stuff later in life, like shingles. I watched my mom and grandpa go through shingles (my grandpa is still in bad pain from it after two years) and want no part of that.

AustinChief
01-28-2015, 03:45 PM
Don't you want your kids to get chicken pox while they're young?

I remember when our cousins got it our mom made us rub him so we'd get it as well.

I am SOOO tempted to change your username to CousinRubber right now.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:46 PM
genetics phd student (done in less than a year) and undergrad in microbiology/biotech

and what should you know about measles?

VACCINATE YOUR FUCKING KIDS

:thumb:

Ebolapox
01-28-2015, 03:46 PM
and yes, I find the middle fingers a bit apropos

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:46 PM
Don't you want your kids to get chicken pox while they're young?

I remember when our cousins got it our mom made us rub him so we'd get it as well.

No.

wazu
01-28-2015, 03:47 PM
If you want to make it a choice, you should face consequences if your choice endangers the health and welfare of others.

You kid catches the measles and spreads it around, including a beefed up version that infects several vaccinated kids?

You pay everyone's medical bills.

If one of those kids dies, you face negligent manslaughter charges.

Choice is fine. But your ability to choose ends when it starts unnecessarily endangering others.

WTF kind of Nazi bullshit is this? The only people infected would be others who didn't vaccinate. And how do you think you will prove who got it from who? Just curious - are you cutting yourself right now?

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:48 PM
You can thank our wonderful president and all the illegals he keeps letting in for all these greats illnesses and old time diseases that are suddenly rearing their ugly head!

There is shit coming into this country we haven't send or had in decades.

I'm sure Rickets and Polio are next!

No, it's from dumbfucks like BigDaddy that don't fucking vaccinate their kids.

Frosty
01-28-2015, 03:49 PM
The fact is, unvaccinated children in public schools increase risks for everyone else. That (to me) is unacceptable because that risk factor is forced upon my (fictional) children because of someone else's poor choice.


My wife works for a public grade school. Recently a child there came down with chicken pox. They barred anyone not vaccinated, including staff, from the school for 21 days. My wife had to get an expensive blood test to prove that she had the chicken pox antibodies so she could keep working. I imagine that they will do that for any vaccinated disease, like measles and whooping cough.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:49 PM
I am SOOO tempted to change your username to CousinRubber right now.

Do it.

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:50 PM
WTF kind of Nazi bullshit is this? The only people infected would be others who didn't vaccinate. And how do you think you will prove who got it from who? Just curious - are you cutting yourself right now?

No, vaccinations aren't 100% effective at preventing infection despite being vaccinated.

If someone around you has the disease, you have a chance to get it even if you are vaccinated.

Donger
01-28-2015, 03:51 PM
:shake:

KC native
01-28-2015, 03:52 PM
:shake:

Donger. Zach's lame thread is DC has some posts that you need to reply to.

ThaVirus
01-28-2015, 03:53 PM
I am SOOO tempted to change your username to CousinRubber right now.


Really? Well, Cya I guess

Donger
01-28-2015, 03:56 PM
Donger. Zach's lame thread is DC has some posts that you need to reply to.

Could you be more specific, please?

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 03:57 PM
WTF kind of Nazi bullshit is this? The only people infected would be others who didn't vaccinate. And how do you think you will prove who got it from who? Just curious - are you cutting yourself right now?

Vaccines are not perfect. Even if vaccinated, you have a chance to contract the disease if exposed to someone who has it. And when diseases start moving past vaccines like that, you run the risk of a strain of the disease developing against which vaccination is not effective.

It's not just the children of the anti-vaxxers who they are putting at risk with their foolishness. It's every child their children comes in contact with, and potentially every person on the planet.

That post was a response to BigConspiracyTheorist's comment that people should be free to choose whether they vaccinate or not.

When someone's choice puts others at risk, there have to be consequences for it. Just like there are consequences of any other choice.

AustinChief
01-28-2015, 03:59 PM
Really? Well, Cya I guess

HAHAHA. Nice work.

Stewie
01-28-2015, 04:01 PM
As a mother, I put my parenting decisions above all else. Nobody knows my son better than me, and the choices I make about how to care for him are no one’s business but my own. So, when other people tell me how they think I should be raising my child, I simply can’t tolerate it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back.

The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.

Say what you will about me, but I’ve read the information out there and weighed every option, so I am confident in my choice to revive a debilitating illness that was long ago declared dead and let it spread like wildfire from school to school, town to town, and state to state, until it reaches every corner of the country. Leaving such a momentous decision to someone you haven’t even met and who doesn’t care about your child personally—now that’s absurd! Maybe I choose to bring back the mumps. Or maybe it’s diphtheria. Or maybe it’s some other potentially fatal disease that can easily pass among those too young or too medically unfit to be vaccinated themselves. But whichever highly communicable and formerly wiped-out disease that I opt to resurrect with a vengeance, it is a highly personal decision that only I and my family have the liberty to make.

The bottom line is that I’m this child’s mother, and I know what’s best. End of story. Politicians, pharmaceutical companies—they don’t know the specific circumstances that made me decide to breathe new life into a viral infection that scientists and the nation at large celebrated stamping out roughly a century ago. It seems like all they care about is following unexamined old rules, injecting chemicals into our kids, preventing ghastly illnesses that used to ravage millions and have since been erased from storming back and wreaking mass havoc on a national scale, and making a buck. Should we really be listening to them and not our own hearts?

I am by no means telling mothers and fathers out there what to do; I’m simply standing up for every parent’s right to make his or her own decision. You may choose to follow the government-recommended immunization schedule for your child, and that’s your decision as a parent. And I might choose to unleash rubella on thousands upon thousands of helpless people, and that’s my decision as a parent.

It’s simple: You don’t tell me how to raise my kids to avoid reviving a horrific illness that hasn’t been seen on our shores since our grandparents were children, and I won’t tell you how to raise yours.

Look, I’ve done the research on these issues, I’ve read the statistics, and I’ve carefully considered the costs and benefits, and there’s simply no question in my mind that inciting a nationwide health emergency by unleashing a disease that can kill 20 percent or more of its victims is the right one for my child.

People need to respect that and move on.

mr. tegu
01-28-2015, 04:02 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

The argument that you don't need to get vaccinated because the risk of getting it is very low, is one of the dumbest arguments one can make. The sad part is you seem to have no idea why that argument is ridiculous.

KC native
01-28-2015, 04:02 PM
Could you be more specific, please?

LMAO

the HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thread.

CaliforniaChief
01-28-2015, 04:17 PM
My Christian faith is a huge part of my life, and I have no clue how that would be used as an excuse not to vaccinate my child. What religious grounds are used?

Frosty
01-28-2015, 04:21 PM
My Christian faith is a huge part of my life, and I have no clue how that would be used as an excuse not to vaccinate my child. What religious grounds are used?

It's a loophole to get around vaccinations. All you have to do is say "It's against my faith" to get out of them. It's not like you have to provide church bylaws or anything.

There are some that are against it, like Christian Scientists, iirc.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 04:35 PM
This place has the biggest bunch of scaredy cats ever assembled in one place. The fact that anyone would even consider letting one of the most corrupt industries ever dictate what they inject into you and your children like a lab rat is quite frankly unbelievable. Nobody can take turn a tiny little bump that is measles into the Great Plague mountain of fear quite like you guys can. Actually the FDA, CDC and WHO do a pretty good job of selling us this great fear every year as well. We are all going to dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Oh the humanity.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2015, 04:38 PM
It's a loophole to get around vaccinations. All you have to do is say "It's against my faith" to get out of them. It's not like you have to provide church bylaws or anything.

There are some that are against it, like Christian Scientists, iirc.

Jehovah Witnesses too. Some states, like Cali, allow a philosophical exemption and a religious one.

Otherwise, yes, you can claim your conscience as your faith. There's no rules on what makes a religion as govt has to stay out of the area.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:39 PM
Truth be know the very most educated and affluent are the ones not vaccinating. That well documented as I am sure you know.

No, I don't. Everyone that I know that has children in Lila, St. James, St. Brendan's, The Oaks and Hollywood School House all have vaccinated children.

And of all of those 15 or 20 couples, I know where they stand, which is "Vaccinate your child".

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:39 PM
You can thank our wonderful president and all the illegals he keeps letting in for all these greats illnesses and old time diseases that are suddenly rearing their ugly head!

There is shit coming into this country we haven't send or had in decades.

I'm sure Rickets and Polio are next!

Sorry, that's complete nonsense.

KC native
01-28-2015, 04:42 PM
This place has the biggest bunch of scaredy cats ever assembled in one place. The fact that anyone would even consider letting one of the most corrupt industries ever dictate what they inject into you and your children like a lab rat is quite frankly unbelievable. Nobody can take turn a tiny little bump that is measles into the Great Plague mountain of fear quite like you guys can. Actually the FDA, CDC and WHO do a pretty good job of selling us this great fear every year as well. We are all going to dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Oh the humanity.

says the idiot that's scared of vaccines.

LMAO

BucEyedPea
01-28-2015, 04:43 PM
No it isn't nonsense. At one time, even legal immigrants were not allowed into the country if they had any contagious diseases. Those children coming in from Central America had diseases such as TB even.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:46 PM
I had it and my kids had it. I used to think the vaccine for it was stupid but in reality, actually having chicken pox opens you to a bunch of nasty stuff later in life, like shingles. I watched my mom and grandpa go through shingles (my grandpa is still in bad pain from it after two years) and want no part of that.

I had such a severe case of chicken pox that I missed four weeks of second grade. My younger brother's case was worse, resulting in encephalitis, which caused him to have nightmares about his limbs missing because he couldn't feel them.

We had them in our mouths, scalps and every conceivable location on our bodies. Both of us had scars for 20 years or more (fortunately, mine are finally gone). It was awful and I didn't want my children to have the same or similar experience.

My mom had shingles, which were incredibly painful and caused her to miss my oldest daughter's first birthday. She had the vaccination a few years ago and fortunately, hasn't had them since.

Anyone that think that Chickenpox is nothing to be concerned with obviously hasn't had or seen a bad case.

Silock
01-28-2015, 04:46 PM
I'm glad you're happy. Claiming science as your own when 1,322 families have been awarded over 2 billion dollars for brain damage due to vaccines and that only represents a tiny fraction of the lawsuits filed is lame. This very simply should be a choice. I choose 1 in a million chance of catching something over the alternative. These are simply facts. I look at health a little differently. Monthly my entire family is checked to make sure every vitamin and mineral in our system is as close to perfect as possible and there are no allergies effecting us. We caught the flu this year but didn't even know it until we got our readout. IT was the sore throat, stuffy head day. Big wow. If people spent as much time and effort at keeping their body and immunity systems up as they do running around like chicken little trying to control what others do in their life this wouldn't even be an issue.

This is exactly the kind of self-focused attitude that's dangerous. If you catch it, it isn't just you or your kids that are affected. You are potentially spreading it to everyone you come in contact with, and then they are potentially spreading it to everyone THEY come in contact with, etc.

And not only that, but the statistics you use to say that you aren't concerned about catching measles are far more likely than the chances of suffering damage due to a vaccine.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 04:47 PM
No, I don't. Everyone that I know that has children in Lila, St. James, St. Brendan's, The Oaks and Hollywood School House all have vaccinated children.

And of all of those 15 or 20 couples, I know where they stand, which is "Vaccinate your child".

Well you can all hold hands and skip together then, congratulations. Don't forget your knee pads, helmet and safety goggle just in case somebody trips.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2015, 04:48 PM
This is exactly the kind of self-focused attitude that's dangerous. If you catch it, it isn't just you or your kids that are affected. You are potentially spreading it to everyone you come in contact with, and then they are potentially spreading it to everyone THEY come in contact with, etc.

And not only that, but the statistics you use to say that you aren't concerned about catching measles are far more likely than the chances of suffering damage due to a vaccine.

If someone has vaccinated their children, how do they get these illnesses spread to them by the unvaccinated? They're vaccinated right? I thought that was their protection.

Silock
01-28-2015, 04:49 PM
This place has the biggest bunch of scaredy cats ever assembled in one place. The fact that anyone would even consider letting one of the most corrupt industries ever dictate what they inject into you and your children like a lab rat is quite frankly unbelievable. Nobody can take turn a tiny little bump that is measles into the Great Plague mountain of fear quite like you guys can. Actually the FDA, CDC and WHO do a pretty good job of selling us this great fear every year as well. We are all going to dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Oh the humanity.

People aren't just scared of the measles. Whooping cough, polio, etc. Measles vaccination is just one example of a disease that's making a comeback. Thankfully, it's relatively harmless. Other diseases are not, and that's why we were happy when they were eradicated.

Silock
01-28-2015, 04:49 PM
If someone has vaccinated their children, how do they get these illnesses spread to them by the unvaccinated? They're vaccinated right? I thought that was their protection.

That's not how herd immunity works.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:51 PM
No it isn't nonsense. At one time, even legal immigrants were not allowed into the country if they had any contagious diseases. Those children coming in from Central America had diseases such as TB even.

Yes, it IS nonsense to state that illegals are at the root of this issue when it's well known that Anti-Vaxxers exist in Orange County in spades.

It's not illegal Mexicans, it's dumbass Americans.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2015, 04:51 PM
Yes, it IS nonsense to state that illegals are at the root of this issue when it's well known that Anti-Vaxxers exist in Orange County in spades.

It's not illegal Mexicans, it's dumbass Americans.

But illegals are increasing the problem. I read they are not vaccinated either.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:51 PM
Well you can all hold hands and skip together then, congratulations. Don't forget your knee pads, helmet and safety goggle just in case somebody trips.

Thanks for being civil in the discussion you've started today for like the 15th time.

Kudos.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 04:52 PM
This is exactly the kind of self-focused attitude that's dangerous. If you catch it, it isn't just you or your kids that are affected. You are potentially spreading it to everyone you come in contact with, and then they are potentially spreading it to everyone THEY come in contact with, etc.

And not only that, but the statistics you use to say that you aren't concerned about catching measles are far more likely than the chances of suffering damage due to a vaccine.

Why put all that shit in your blood? It's fucking measles dude. If your vaccine works so god damn well then you shouldn't be worried about what I do.

Silock
01-28-2015, 04:53 PM
Why put all that shit in your blood? It's fucking measles dude. If your vaccine works so god damn well then you shouldn't be worried about what I do.

Again, that's not how herd immunity works.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:53 PM
If someone has vaccinated their children, how do they get these illnesses spread to them by the unvaccinated? They're vaccinated right? I thought that was their protection.
Do you really not understand how vaccinations work?

http://www.wired.com/2015/01/vaccinated-people-get-measles-disneyland-blame-unvaccinated/

The misery of a measles outbreak at the Happiest Place on Earth is an irony even the most jaded epidemiologist could do without, but the 52 cases that originated in Disneyland in December hide within them an even scarier number—scary, that is, unless you understand how vaccines work.

Now, plainly, most of the people stricken with Mickey Mouse measles do not understand how vaccines work, because they didn’t get them. The vast majority of the infected were unvaccinated against the disease, including kids who were too young for the shots and anti-vaxxers who chose against them. That’s how you get an outbreak. But six of the cases got their measles-mumps-rubella vaccine—the MMR shot—and still managed to get infected. And all but two of them had gotten at least two doses, the standard recommendation.

So what happened?

The measles vaccine is actually one of the most effective vaccines in the world. According to Greg Wallace, lead of the measles, mumps, rubella and polio team at the CDC, two doses are 97 percent effective against infection. (Compare that to 88 percent for two doses of the mumps vaccine from the MMR shot.) It’s a live version of the virus, just weakened—or attenuated—so it doesn’t cause severe symptoms. The vaccine replicates just like the full-on measles virus, inciting your immune system to produce antibodies against it. Those antibodies then protect against actual measles as well.

But in some people, that response just doesn’t happen. No one knows why. Either your body doesn’t produce enough antibodies, or the ones it does produce aren’t specific enough to latch on to the virus and kill it.

That’s why the CDC recommends two doses of the vaccine: After the first dose, 5 to 7 percent of people won’t have a good enough antibody response to protect them. A second dose ensures that enough people get antibodies above that protective threshold to control the disease. “And even with two doses, you can get some failure,” says Wallace, “whether it’s because the initial response isn’t perfect, or because the response waned in some people.”

So how does that explain what happened in Disneyland? If you have a group of 1,000 people concentrated in a small space—like oh, say, hypothetically, an amusement park—about 90 percent of them will be vaccinated (hopefully). One person, maybe someone who contracted measles on a recent trip to the Philippines, moves around, spreading the virus. Measles is crazy contagious, so of the 100 people who aren’t vaccinated, about 90 will get infected. Then, of the 900 people who are vaccinated, 3 percent—27 people—get infected because they don’t have full immunity.

Now the Disneyland numbers—six vaccinated infections out of the 34 cases with known records—start to make more sense. (And considering the 16 million or so visitors the park gets every year, we might reasonably expect that number to go up.) Once vaccination levels dip below 90 or 95 percent, there aren’t enough protected people to keep the disease in check—the herd immunity that epidemiologists like to talk about so much. In the US, we’ve been doing pretty well keeping those numbers up. “But there are some fluctuations,” says Cristina Cassetti, program officer at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, “and if vaccination levels dip down a little, you get a situation like Disneyland.”

So, the tiered model of antibody response leaves a small percentage of vaccinated people susceptible. But note: It’s also the reason why you’re better off being vaccinated even if you end up getting infected. Your antibody levels might not be high enough to completely protect you, but they’ll still help—the CDC has seen vaccinated patients with measles who only get a rash for about an hour, says Wallace. And, importantly for octogenarians (whose immune systems are weaker) and infants, vaccinated patients are much less likely to transmit the disease to other people. Even if you’re the unlucky sucker who gets infected after vaccination, getting a shot still helps contribute to herd immunity—good job, world citizen! Taking one for the team!

Researchers are still trying to understand why people’s immune systems respond differently. When they figure it out, it might help them create a more effective version of the vaccine.

But right now, the more important thing to focus on is vaccinating people to keep the disease from spreading like it has in Disneyland. 2014 was a banner year for the measles: 635 US residents were infected, more than the past four years combined. Without a change, those numbers will keep going up.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 04:54 PM
Why put all that shit in your blood? It's fucking measles dude. If your vaccine works so god damn well then you shouldn't be worried about what I do.

Is it possible that you could know less about science?

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 04:56 PM
Thanks for being civil in the discussion you've started today for like the 15th time.

Kudos.

I would never bring it up again period if I wasn't endlessly stalked by KC Native on the subject.

We will never agree on this or music downloads but the rest is all good Dane. I wish the very best for you and your family. Still hope to meet you one day. I may open an office in LA this year so who knows. Then again you may not want to meet the BIG_CONTAGION. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2015, 05:03 PM
I would never bring it up again period if I wasn't endlessly stalked by KC Native on the subject.

We will never agree on this or music downloads but the rest is all good Dane. I wish the very best for you and your family. Still hope to meet you one day. I may open an office in LA this year so who knows. Then again you may not want to meet the BIG_CONTAGION. LMAO

Dude, it's always all good. We just have to agree to disagree.

ThaVirus
01-28-2015, 05:20 PM
Why put all that shit in your blood? It's fucking measles dude. If your vaccine works so god damn well then you shouldn't be worried about what I do.


I think it's always a good idea to be leery of anything da gubment tells you to do, but you come into contact with a lot of that stuff everyday in your diet, toiletries, random microbes, etc.

ThaVirus
01-28-2015, 05:23 PM
So if the weakened virus still replicates in your system after taking a vaccine, it sounds like you could still develop shingles at some point in your life..?

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 05:33 PM
So if the weakened virus still replicates in your system after taking a vaccine, it sounds like you could still develop shingles at some point in your life..?

There is the kicker, the MMR vaccine is a live virus and kids who get it are shedding all over the place. They bring the virus to kids with compromised immunity systems. It is quite possible that a kid who was recently vaccinated started the whole Disneyland debacle but that is going to be completely overlooked by this group. They just want to burn the witch even if that kid never had the sickness and justify it.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 05:40 PM
1985, Texas, USA: According to an article published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1987, "An outbreak of measles occurred among adolescents in Corpus Christi, Texas, in the spring of 1985, even though vaccination requirements for school attendance had been thoroughly enforced." They concluded: "We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune."1

1985, Montana, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Epidemiology titled, "A persistent outbreak of measles despite appropriate prevention and control measures," an outbreak of 137 cases of measles occurred in Montana. School records indicated that 98.7% of students were appropriately vaccinated, leading the researchers to conclude: "This outbreak suggests that measles transmission may persist in some settings despite appropriate implementation of the current measles elimination strategy."2

1988, Colorado, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Public Health in 1991, "early 1988 an outbreak of 84 measles cases occurred at a college in Colorado in which over 98 percent of students had documentation of adequate measles immunity ... due to an immunization requirement in effect since 1986. They concluded: "...measles outbreaks can occur among highly vaccinated college populations."3

1989, Quebec, Canada: According to an article published in the Canadian Journal of Public Health in 1991, a 1989 measles outbreak was "largely attributed to an incomplete vaccination coverage," but following an extensive review the researchers concluded "Incomplete vaccination coverage is not a valid explanation for the Quebec City measles outbreak.4

1991-1992, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: According to an article published in the journal Revista da Sociedade Brasileira de Medicina Tropical, in a measles outbreak from March 1991 to April 1992 in Rio de Janeiro, 76.4% of those suspected to be infected had received measles vaccine before their first birthday.5

1992, Cape Town, South Africa: According to an article published in the South African Medical Journal in 1994, "[In] August 1992 an outbreak occurred, with cases reported at many schools in children presumably immunised." Immunization coverage for measles was found to be 91%, and vaccine efficacy found to be only 79%, leading them to conclude that primary and secondary vaccine failure was a possible explanation for the outbreak.6


For what it's worth China has had a huge outbreak of Measles in 2013 and they have MANDATORY VACCINES.

kstater
01-28-2015, 06:01 PM
Yeah, I'm not gonna take measles advice from the retard too stupid to vaccinate his kids.

Silock
01-28-2015, 06:08 PM
1985, Texas, USA: According to an article published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1987, "An outbreak of measles occurred among adolescents in Corpus Christi, Texas, in the spring of 1985, even though vaccination requirements for school attendance had been thoroughly enforced." They concluded: "We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune."1

1985, Montana, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Epidemiology titled, "A persistent outbreak of measles despite appropriate prevention and control measures," an outbreak of 137 cases of measles occurred in Montana. School records indicated that 98.7% of students were appropriately vaccinated, leading the researchers to conclude: "This outbreak suggests that measles transmission may persist in some settings despite appropriate implementation of the current measles elimination strategy."2

1988, Colorado, USA: According to an article published in the American Journal of Public Health in 1991, "early 1988 an outbreak of 84 measles cases occurred at a college in Colorado in which over 98 percent of students had documentation of adequate measles immunity ... due to an immunization requirement in effect since 1986. They concluded: "...measles outbreaks can occur among highly vaccinated college populations."3

1989, Quebec, Canada: According to an article published in the Canadian Journal of Public Health in 1991, a 1989 measles outbreak was "largely attributed to an incomplete vaccination coverage," but following an extensive review the researchers concluded "Incomplete vaccination coverage is not a valid explanation for the Quebec City measles outbreak.4

1991-1992, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: According to an article published in the journal Revista da Sociedade Brasileira de Medicina Tropical, in a measles outbreak from March 1991 to April 1992 in Rio de Janeiro, 76.4% of those suspected to be infected had received measles vaccine before their first birthday.5

1992, Cape Town, South Africa: According to an article published in the South African Medical Journal in 1994, "[In] August 1992 an outbreak occurred, with cases reported at many schools in children presumably immunised." Immunization coverage for measles was found to be 91%, and vaccine efficacy found to be only 79%, leading them to conclude that primary and secondary vaccine failure was a possible explanation for the outbreak.6


For what it's worth China has had a huge outbreak of Measles in 2013 and they have MANDATORY VACCINES.

Not really sure what you're trying to prove here. If these are examples of things that happen even WITH vaccines, imagine how bad it would be if there were no vaccines.

BIG_DADDY
01-28-2015, 06:13 PM
Not really sure what you're trying to prove here. If these are examples of things that happen even WITH vaccines, imagine how bad it would be if there were no vaccines.

I'll let you know when I am scared of a stupid rash. I took my kid right into Disneyland when the outbreak happened. Right now the only sick people are all the scaredy cats that took their kids back in for a Measles booster. His class is like the walking dead sick with everything but the Measles and shedding that live virus all over the place. Yea, those damn unvaccinated kids sure are a menace.

Silock
01-28-2015, 06:16 PM
I'll let you know when I am scared of a stupid rash. I took my kid right into Disneyland when the outbreak happened. Right now the only sick people are all the scaredy cats that took their kids back in for a Measles booster. His class is like the walking dead sick with everything but the Measles and shedding that live virus all over the place. Yea, those damn unvaccinated kids sure are a menace.

This is a classic example of missing the forest for the trees.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-28-2015, 06:23 PM
You want public education? Vaccinate your kids. If not, pay for their education yourself. Reasonable expectation from someone with no kids. Disagree? Why?

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 06:23 PM
I'll let you know when I am scared of a stupid rash. I took my kid right into Disneyland when the outbreak happened. Right now the only sick people are all the scaredy cats that took their kids back in for a Measles booster. His class is like the walking dead sick with everything but the Measles and shedding that live virus all over the place. Yea, those damn unvaccinated kids sure are a menace.

That you think it is a "stupid rash" makes me sad for your kids.

150,000 people DIED from measles in 2013. Calling it a stupid rash in the face of that is just ignorant.

It can cause pneumonia and brain inflammation and even corneal scarring (which can lead to blindness).

Before the vaccine, it killed 25-30 percent of people who contracted it.

It's not a big deal right now because we fucking vaccinated everyone in the United States against it. The more people we add to the herd that are unvaccinated, the more likely it is that it comes back, and in a more virulent strain.

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 06:26 PM
If someone has vaccinated their children, how do they get these illnesses spread to them by the unvaccinated? They're vaccinated right? I thought that was their protection.

The vaccinations are not perfect. Also, when a disease starts spreading and incubating and etc., it is possible for it to mutate and become MORE virulent or more resistant to existing preventative measures... and start breaking past the vaccines that previously worked/shielded people from the old strain.

I'm not the resident biologist, so that's an extreme layman's explanation. But not vaccinating a portion of your population because something is "not that bad" is playing with fire.

duncan_idaho
01-28-2015, 06:26 PM
You want public education? Vaccinate your kids. If not, pay for their education yourself. Reasonable expectation from someone with no kids. Disagree? Why?

You NAZI!

Saccopoo
01-28-2015, 06:34 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

Autism is genetic.

To be sure that your children aren't afflicted, you should probably not breed.

KCChiefsFan88
01-28-2015, 07:04 PM
They say a picture is worth 1,000 words…

Warning, gross:

http://www.opposingviews.com/sites/default/files/featured_image/measles.jpg

saphojunkie
01-28-2015, 07:11 PM
You can thank our wonderful president and all the illegals he keeps letting in for all these greats illnesses and old time diseases that are suddenly rearing their ugly head!

There is shit coming into this country we haven't send or had in decades.

I'm sure Rickets and Polio are next!

:facepalm:

saphojunkie
01-28-2015, 07:12 PM
I'll let you know when I am scared of a stupid rash. I took my kid right into Disneyland when the outbreak happened. Right now the only sick people are all the scaredy cats that took their kids back in for a Measles booster. His class is like the walking dead sick with everything but the Measles and shedding that live virus all over the place. Yea, those damn unvaccinated kids sure are a menace.

Are you really one of the people that thinks you shouldn't vaccinate your kids? Because, if so, you are a fucking moron.

Period.

End of story.

J Diddy
01-28-2015, 07:20 PM
Are you really one of the people that thinks you shouldn't vaccinate your kids? Because, if so, you are a fucking moron.

Period.

End of story.

He is an outspoken advocate for those who don't believe in vaccinating. In fact he cited heavily the failed autism/vaccination studies as source back in the day.

Pitt Gorilla
01-28-2015, 07:25 PM
When my wife and I were deciding whether or not to vaccinate our first child I was fearful of this. Then I actually read some studies and learned some stuff.

I don't understand people not thinking about the herd principle of vaccination.Vaccinations DO NOT cause autism. I'm still trying to figure out why people believe such asinine bullshit.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-28-2015, 07:40 PM
Yea, that makes about as much sense charging a driver for manslaughter for not having insurance when a drunk and driver crosses the middle line and dies in the accident. Brilliant.

You stupid fucks and your cunt children have flouted one of the most beneficial medical practices in human history. Due to your dumbfuckery, now the rest of us are suffering due to a lowering of herd immunity, all because you are too goddamned fucking stupid to read information critically, or understand post hoc logical fallacies.

You motherfuckers should be shipped to Bikini Atoll, hopefully after we resume above surface nuclear testing. If not, maybe the background radiation will render you idiots sterile.

lewdog
01-28-2015, 07:41 PM
Vaccinations DO NOT cause autism. I'm still trying to figure out why people believe such asinine bullshit.

A study done by Andy Wakefield linked Autism and vaccines back in 1998 from the MMR vaccine. His methods were flawed and he latter admitted that he falsified data. It's is one of the most fraudulent pieces of scientific research to datE in the health field. He's been stripped of his medical license because of it. Countless studies have proven no such link.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/29/vaccine-autism-connection-debunked-again/

VACCINATE YOUR FUCKING KIDS YOU WORTHLESS SACKS!

bevischief
01-28-2015, 07:55 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

About the same as an alien butt probe...

lewdog
01-28-2015, 08:00 PM
Officials: Up to 1K possibly exposed to measles in Arizona

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/01/28/arizona-measles-outbreak-gila-county-abrk/22472171/

How exciting.

Superbowltrashcan
01-28-2015, 08:15 PM
Why put all that shit in your blood? It's ****ing measles dude. If your vaccine works so god damn well then you shouldn't be worried about what I do.

Let's try an analogy. People who don't vaccinate are like people who randomly close their eyes while driving for 5-10 seconds at a time. In isolation, problems may not even present themselves. But to other "open eyes" drivers, those vaccinated, they can cause a problem. Put large numbers of "eye closers" on the road and eventually you cause real issues. In large traffic areas the effect is more pronounced. And some people, even though their eyes are open will be so close they won't be able to protect themselves even though their eyes are open. These are the people who are vaccinated but are still not protected. Ramp up the prevailing traffic speed and introduce fog and you have the equivalent of vaccine resistant strains.

So what I guess I am saying is open your eyes. Or go somewhere that you don't drive into other people.

Just curious: Do you use leaches?

Demonpenz
01-28-2015, 08:18 PM
Most of you have heard of the recent measles outbreak mostly linked to Disneyland over the holidays. As of January 27th, a total of 73 cases of measles have been confirmed in the state of California, 48 of which are linked to those who recently visited Disneyland. There are 9 confirmed cases in the Bay Area. Alameda County has 5 cases, 4 of which are probably linked to Disneyland. There are 27 cases each in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, none of which are directly linked to Disneyland.

Since news of the outbreak, I think it is important to separate fact from the fear that is circulating in the media.

What is measles?

In order to understand what the fear is about, the first thing to understand is what exactly measles is. Measles, also called rubeola, is a highly-contagious viral infection. It is airborne, meaning that it is transmitted by droplets from an infected person’s nose and throat, such as during coughing and sneezing. These droplets can survive in the air and on objects and surfaces for up to 2 hours, but are rapidly killed by heat, light (UV and visible), detergents and organic solvents. Once exposed, the measles virus begins to multiply in the nasal cavity. Two to three days later, the virus continues to replicate and spread from the nasopharynx to the lymphatic system, and eventually to the respiratory tract and other organs. It typically takes 10-12 days for a person to develop symptoms after exposure to measles (the incubation period), but this may be as short as 7 or as long as 18 days.

Takeaway: If the viral replication can be stopped at the time of exposure, this may help prevent actual infection. Consider daily nasal irrigation with Xlear saline nasal spray, neti pot, Neilmed sinus rinse or equivalent. The measles virus is easily inactivated – wash your hands frequently and before you touch your face or eat.

Initial symptoms mimic influenza symptoms, with a fever which can rise as high as 103°F-105°F. This is followed by coryza (runny nose), cough, and conjunctivitis (pinkeye) – the 3 "C’s". With our concurrent flu season in full force, it can be very challenging to differentiate initial measles symptoms with flu symptoms. However, it is during these early stages of measles that we can see what are called "Koplik spots", which are considered definitive for measles. These are discrete white spots on a red base on the inner cheek that appear 1-2 days before, and last 1-2 days after the measles rash develops, and unfortunately are usually gone by the time patients present to a clinic with a rash. The measles rash will develop 2-4 days after upper respiratory symptoms appear and last for approximately 5-6 days. The rash is red and blotchy and some spots may merge, typically starting on the face and moving down the body to the hands and feet, and disappears in that same order. The rash is generally not itchy.

An infected person is contagious for about 4 days before symptoms start, and until 4 days after the rash develops. The secondary "attack rate", or the likelihood of an unprotected person actually getting the infection if they are exposed during this period, is over 90%. The attack rate is highest the younger you are – 94% for children 1 to 4 years of age, and 91% for children 5 to 14 years of age.

The prognosis for measles is generally good. Complications are more likely to occur in children younger than 5 years of age and adults over 20 years of age, and in individuals with vitamin A deficiency, malnutrition, and immunodeficiency. The risk of death is approximately 1-2 per 1,000 cases – with the highest fatality rates seen in children less than 5 years, and in particular those infants aged 4-12 months. Common relatively minor complications include diarrhea in 8%, ear infections in 7% and pneumonia in 6%. While rare, encephalitis (brain infection) can occur in about 1 per 1,000 cases of measles, with an approximately 15% fatality rate, and 25% who will continue to have some residual neurologic damage. While very rare, with anywhere from 1-22 per 100,000 cases, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very serious complication of measles. This is a fatal, progressive degenerative neurologic disease that occurs unpredictably, 7-10 years after a seemingly full recovery from the initial measles infection, resulting eventually in behavioral and cognitive changes, seizures, coma, and death. The risk of SSPE may be higher for patients who contract measles before 2 years of age.

Treatment for measles is supportive. Several studies have shown that high-dose vitamin A may be useful in reducing complications and death from measles, especially in those patients who are deficient in vitamin A. The World Health Organization recommends high-dose vitamin A for all children with acute measles, regardless of vitamin A status. High doses of vitamin A for prolonged periods may have associated toxicity. However, this 2-day protocol is very unlikely to lead to toxicity in the short term. The protocol is as follows – Vitamin A is administered once daily for 2 days at the following doses:
• 50,000 IU for infants aged less than 6 months
• 100,000 IU for infants aged 6–11 months
• 200,000 IU for children aged 12 months and older
Takeaway: Measles is generally a self-limiting disease in most healthy children. Complications are more likely to be severe in individuals who are deficient in vitamin A and malnourished in general. Eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Avoid sugars and processed foods. Supplement with vitamin D as one of the most important ways to boost your immune system through the winter. Ensure that you and your children get at least the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A. Remember that cod liver oil is a great source of vitamin A AND vitamin D. While optimal daily supplementation levels are not entirely clear, the following are the "tolerable upper intake levels" of vitamin A in international units (IU) as set forth by the Food and Nutrition Board:
Life Stage Upper Limit
Birth to 12 months 2,000 IU
Children 1–3 years 2,000 IU
Children 4–8 years 3,000 IU
Children 9–13 years 5,667 IU
Teens 14–18 years 9,333 IU
Adults 19 years and older 10,000 IU

Antipyretics (fever reducers such as Tylenol and Motrin) have been found in many studies to prolong the course of viral illnesses, like chickenpox and measles. Studies have linked the use of antipyretics for the fever with measles to a significantly higher risk of prolonged illness, complications, and mortality. In fact, one study of children in Ghana during a measles outbreak found higher survival rates in children who had higher fevers and more severe rashes.

Takeaway: Fever is the body’s natural and useful response to infection. Do not succumb to fever phobia. In general, limit antipyretics for when your child is uncomfortable enough that it interferes with staying hydrated or getting adequate sleep. There are many homeopathic medicines that can be used to help the body naturally regulate its fever response. Please consult with your doctor for the most appropriate natural and/or conventional medicines to use should your child develop a fever.

What about the MMR vaccine?

The only vaccination against measles that is currently available is the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine, and MMRV (MMR plus chickenpox) vaccine. The measles vaccine is no longer available as a separate single-strain vaccine. The MMR vaccine is a "live-virus" vaccine, which means that you are receiving a live, but weakened version of the viruses to create a mild infection with subsequent antibody response and protection. MMR is typically first given between 12-18 months of age, with a second MMR given between 4-6 years of age. After the first dose, approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age, and approximately 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age will develop protective measles antibodies. Even one dose can be highly effective in preventing measles. But a second dose (technically not a booster) at 4-6 years of age is recommended to capture the 2-5% of children who did not respond to the first vaccine. This second dose may be administered as soon as 4 weeks after the first dose should there be a question as to efficacy. For children who have had their first MMR but are not yet at the recommended age for their second dose, options include receiving their second MMR before they are 4-6 years of age, or doing bloodwork to check for protective antibody levels (measles titers). Adults do not need a booster if they received a measles vaccine after 1968. For adults who are not sure that they’ve been vaccinated, options include checking measles titers or receiving an MMR vaccine. In outbreaks, the CDC may recommend that children as young as 6 months of age receive the MMR. Children between 6-12 months of age are less likely to respond to the vaccine and make appropriate antibodies, and are still recommended to receive the recommended 2 doses at 12-18 months and 4-6 years. There is evidence that vaccination within 72 hours of exposure to measles may prevent disease in those who are unprotected.

The vaccination status is known for 39 of the California patients who have contracted measles. Of these 39 patients, 32 were unvaccinated and 7 were fully vaccinated.

Takeaway: Even one dose of the MMR appears to be very effective in providing immunity against measles. However, no vaccine is 100% effective. A second dose may be required for some patients, especially those who received their first vaccine at less than 12 months of age. Post-exposure vaccination within 72 hours may be effective. Ensuring adequate nutrition and vitamin A as above continue to be important for all individuals regardless of vaccination status.

Because it is a live-virus vaccine, the MMR is not to be given to pregnant women or to individuals who are immunocompromised or are receiving immunosuppressant therapies. It is also contraindicated in individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to gelatin, neomycin or any other component of the vaccine. Precautions should be taken in patients with moderate or severe illness with or without fever, or a personal or family history of febrile seizures. The measles virus used in the vaccine is grown in chicken embryo culture, but anaphylactic egg allergy is not considered a contraindication to the vaccine.

Takeaway: There are individuals for whom the MMR vaccine is not an option. Unprotected individuals who cannot receive the MMR vaccine (infants, pregnant women, immunocompromised individuals) may rely on "herd immunity", or high vaccination rates in the community, for their protection.

What are the possible adverse reactions to the MMR? Just as no vaccine is 100% effective, no vaccine is 100% risk-free. The most common adverse reaction is typically due to the replication of the measles vaccine virus to induce a mild illness. This typically occurs 5-12 days after receiving the vaccine, and can include fever for 1-2 days and a rash. Joint pains are seen in 25% of susceptible adult women, due to the rubella component. The risk of febrile seizures increases 3-fold 8-14 days after the MMR vaccine, but is still relatively low. Anaphylaxis and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) are other rare complications. There may be a link between the measles vaccine and SSPE of about 1 case per million vaccine doses, which is significantly lower than the risk of SSPE from a primary measles infection.

Of biggest concern for many parents is the proposed link between vaccines and autism, and in particular between the MMR vaccine and autism. While the media and common public opinion are quick to say that the link between vaccines and autism has been absolutely disproved, they have not done their due diligence research. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP, also called “vaccine court”), established by Congress in 1986, was created to provide a “no-fault” mechanism to compensate individuals found to be injured by vaccines. By 2010, the VICP had awarded nearly $2 billion to individuals who had suffered vaccine injuries. It has awarded at least 4 families millions of dollars after finding that their children had suffered from brain damage (encephalitis) caused by the MMR and other vaccines, which then resulted in regressive autistic symptoms. Since its inception, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars, to 1,322 families whose children were found to have suffered brain damage from vaccines. In August of 2014, a top research scientist whistleblower at the CDC released information that the CDC had manipulated data in an MMR and autism study to obscure the higher incidence of autism found in African-American boys who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age.

That being said, it remains that most children will not develop significant adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Is there any way to predict which children may be more vulnerable to vaccine reactions, or any way to prevent these reactions from occurring? In taking a closer look at the cases that were won in vaccine court, one case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by aggravating an underlying mitochondrial disorder, and another case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by triggering an autoimmune reaction called Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which caused irreparable brain inflammation. One might conjecture then, that a child who has a suspected mitochondrial dysfunction, or who has a strong family history of autoimmune illness, may be more at risk for these rare, albeit devastating, reactions. What are possible signs of mitochondrial dysfunction – low muscle tone, easy fatigue/poor endurance, delayed developmental milestones, regressions with illness, and lab evidence (including high serum lactate, high serum CK, high AST, low serum carnitine).

A possible mitochondrial dysfunction and/or family history of autoimmune illness are not absolute contraindications to the MMR vaccine. They are, however, precautions. The risk of adverse vaccine reactions must be weighed against the risk of actual disease. In 2000, measles was thought to be mostly eliminated in the US. Measles is now on the rise, and hopefully will not reach the epidemic proportions it has in Europe. Now that the measles infection rate may potentially be climbing, this risk must be taken into account. Likewise, the community benefit of herd protection for infants and immunocompromised individuals must also be considered. These are all considerations that each parent must take into account for their own children. For children who may have mitochondrial dysfunction, or a family history of autoimmune illness, there are supplements that may help to reduce and prevent potential adverse reactions from the MMR vaccine while still enabling the measles protection that it can afford.

Takeaway: Most children will not experience adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Given the increasing prevalence of measles, consideration should be given to getting vaccinated, either now or within 72 hours of known exposure. However, if there is a possibility of mitochondrial dysfunction, or strong family history of autoimmune illness or neurodegenerative disease you may want to reconsider. Supplements to help reduce the risk of adverse reactions. These may include carnitine, coQ10, milk thistle, vitamin A, homeopathic Thuja, and others.



Good information on Hib and MMR.
Most of you have heard of the recent measles outbreak mostly linked to Disneyland over the holidays. As of this writing, a total of 73 cases of measles have been confirmed in the state of California, 48 of which are linked to those who recently visited Disneyland. There are 9 confirmed cases in the Bay Area. Alameda County has 5 cases, 4 of which are probably linked to Disneyland. There are 2 cases each in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, none of which are directly linked to Disneyland.

Since news of the outbreak, I have received numerous questions about measles and the MMR vaccine. My goal in writing this newsletter now is to hopefully shed some light on this measles epidemic, and to separate fact from the fear that is circulating in the media.

What is measles?

In order to understand what the fear is about, the first thing to understand is what exactly measles is. Measles, also called rubeola, is a highly-contagious viral infection. It is airborne, meaning that it is transmitted by droplets from an infected person’s nose and throat, such as during coughing and sneezing. These droplets can survive in the air and on objects and surfaces for up to 2 hours, but are rapidly killed by heat, light (UV and visible), detergents and organic solvents. Once exposed, the measles virus begins to multiply in the nasal cavity. Two to three days later, the virus continues to replicate and spread from the nasopharynx to the lymphatic system, and eventually to the respiratory tract and other organs. It typically takes 10-12 days for a person to develop symptoms after exposure to measles (the incubation period), but this may be as short as 7 or as long as 18 days.

Takeaway: If the viral replication can be stopped at the time of exposure, this may help prevent actual infection. Consider daily nasal irrigation with Xlear saline nasal spray, neti pot, Neilmed sinus rinse or equivalent. The measles virus is easily inactivated – wash your hands frequently and before you touch your face or eat.

Initial symptoms mimic influenza symptoms, with a fever which can rise as high as 103°F-105°F. This is followed by coryza (runny nose), cough, and conjunctivitis (pinkeye) – the 3 "C’s". With our concurrent flu season in full force, it can be very challenging to differentiate initial measles symptoms with flu symptoms. However, it is during these early stages of measles that we can see what are called "Koplik spots", which are considered definitive for measles. These are discrete white spots on a red base on the inner cheek that appear 1-2 days before, and last 1-2 days after the measles rash develops, and unfortunately are usually gone by the time patients present to a clinic with a rash. The measles rash will develop 2-4 days after upper respiratory symptoms appear and last for approximately 5-6 days. The rash is red and blotchy and some spots may merge, typically starting on the face and moving down the body to the hands and feet, and disappears in that same order. The rash is generally not itchy.

An infected person is contagious for about 4 days before symptoms start, and until 4 days after the rash develops. The secondary "attack rate", or the likelihood of an unprotected person actually getting the infection if they are exposed during this period, is over 90%. The attack rate is highest the younger you are – 94% for children 1 to 4 years of age, and 91% for children 5 to 14 years of age.

The prognosis for measles is generally good. Complications are more likely to occur in children younger than 5 years of age and adults over 20 years of age, and in individuals with vitamin A deficiency, malnutrition, and immunodeficiency. The risk of death is approximately 1-2 per 1,000 cases – with the highest fatality rates seen in children less than 5 years, and in particular those infants aged 4-12 months. Common relatively minor complications include diarrhea in 8%, ear infections in 7% and pneumonia in 6%. While rare, encephalitis (brain infection) can occur in about 1 per 1,000 cases of measles, with an approximately 15% fatality rate, and 25% who will continue to have some residual neurologic damage. While very rare, with anywhere from 1-22 per 100,000 cases, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very serious complication of measles. This is a fatal, progressive degenerative neurologic disease that occurs unpredictably, 7-10 years after a seemingly full recovery from the initial measles infection, resulting eventually in behavioral and cognitive changes, seizures, coma, and death. The risk of SSPE may be higher for patients who contract measles before 2 years of age.

Treatment for measles is supportive. Several studies have shown that high-dose vitamin A may be useful in reducing complications and death from measles, especially in those patients who are deficient in vitamin A. The World Health Organization recommends high-dose vitamin A for all children with acute measles, regardless of vitamin A status. High doses of vitamin A for prolonged periods may have associated toxicity. However, this 2-day protocol is very unlikely to lead to toxicity in the short term. The protocol is as follows – Vitamin A is administered once daily for 2 days at the following doses:
• 50,000 IU for infants aged less than 6 months
• 100,000 IU for infants aged 6–11 months
• 200,000 IU for children aged 12 months and older
Takeaway: Measles is generally a self-limiting disease in most healthy children. Complications are more likely to be severe in individuals who are deficient in vitamin A and malnourished in general. Eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Avoid sugars and processed foods. Supplement with vitamin D as one of the most important ways to boost your immune system through the winter. Ensure that you and your children get at least the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A. Remember that cod liver oil is a great source of vitamin A AND vitamin D. While optimal daily supplementation levels are not entirely clear, the following are the "tolerable upper intake levels" of vitamin A in international units (IU) as set forth by the Food and Nutrition Board:
Life Stage Upper Limit
Birth to 12 months 2,000 IU
Children 1–3 years 2,000 IU
Children 4–8 years 3,000 IU
Children 9–13 years 5,667 IU
Teens 14–18 years 9,333 IU
Adults 19 years and older 10,000 IU

Antipyretics (fever reducers such as Tylenol and Motrin) have been found in many studies to prolong the course of viral illnesses, like chickenpox and measles. Studies have linked the use of antipyretics for the fever with measles to a significantly higher risk of prolonged illness, complications, and mortality. In fact, one study of children in Ghana during a measles outbreak found higher survival rates in children who had higher fevers and more severe rashes.

Takeaway: Fever is the body’s natural and useful response to infection. Do not succumb to fever phobia. In general, limit antipyretics for when your child is uncomfortable enough that it interferes with staying hydrated or getting adequate sleep. There are many homeopathic medicines that can be used to help the body naturally regulate its fever response. Please consult with your doctor for the most appropriate natural and/or conventional medicines to use should your child develop a fever.

What about the MMR vaccine?

The only vaccination against measles that is currently available is the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine, and MMRV (MMR plus chickenpox) vaccine. The measles vaccine is no longer available as a separate single-strain vaccine. The MMR vaccine is a "live-virus" vaccine, which means that you are receiving a live, but weakened version of the viruses to create a mild infection with subsequent antibody response and protection. MMR is typically first given between 12-18 months of age, with a second MMR given between 4-6 years of age. After the first dose, approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age, and approximately 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age will develop protective measles antibodies. Even one dose can be highly effective in preventing measles. But a second dose (technically not a booster) at 4-6 years of age is recommended to capture the 2-5% of children who did not respond to the first vaccine. This second dose may be administered as soon as 4 weeks after the first dose should there be a question as to efficacy. For children who have had their first MMR but are not yet at the recommended age for their second dose, options include receiving their second MMR before they are 4-6 years of age, or doing bloodwork to check for protective antibody levels (measles titers). Adults do not need a booster if they received a measles vaccine after 1968. For adults who are not sure that they’ve been vaccinated, options include checking measles titers or receiving an MMR vaccine. In outbreaks, the CDC may recommend that children as young as 6 months of age receive the MMR. Children between 6-12 months of age are less likely to respond to the vaccine and make appropriate antibodies, and are still recommended to receive the recommended 2 doses at 12-18 months and 4-6 years. There is evidence that vaccination within 72 hours of exposure to measles may prevent disease in those who are unprotected.

The vaccination status is known for 39 of the California patients who have contracted measles. Of these 39 patients, 32 were unvaccinated and 7 were fully vaccinated.

Takeaway: Even one dose of the MMR appears to be very effective in providing immunity against measles. However, no vaccine is 100% effective. A second dose may be required for some patients, especially those who received their first vaccine at less than 12 months of age. Post-exposure vaccination within 72 hours may be effective. Ensuring adequate nutrition and vitamin A as above continue to be important for all individuals regardless of vaccination status.

Because it is a live-virus vaccine, the MMR is not to be given to pregnant women or to individuals who are immunocompromised or are receiving immunosuppressant therapies. It is also contraindicated in individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to gelatin, neomycin or any other component of the vaccine. Precautions should be taken in patients with moderate or severe illness with or without fever, or a personal or family history of febrile seizures. The measles virus used in the vaccine is grown in chicken embryo culture, but anaphylactic egg allergy is not considered a contraindication to the vaccine.

Takeaway: There are individuals for whom the MMR vaccine is not an option. Unprotected individuals who cannot receive the MMR vaccine (infants, pregnant women, immunocompromised individuals) may rely on "herd immunity", or high vaccination rates in the community, for their protection.

What are the possible adverse reactions to the MMR? Just as no vaccine is 100% effective, no vaccine is 100% risk-free. The most common adverse reaction is typically due to the replication of the measles vaccine virus to induce a mild illness. This typically occurs 5-12 days after receiving the vaccine, and can include fever for 1-2 days and a rash. Joint pains are seen in 25% of susceptible adult women, due to the rubella component. The risk of febrile seizures increases 3-fold 8-14 days after the MMR vaccine, but is still relatively low. Anaphylaxis and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) are other rare complications. There may be a link between the measles vaccine and SSPE of about 1 case per million vaccine doses, which is significantly lower than the risk of SSPE from a primary measles infection.

Of biggest concern for many parents is the proposed link between vaccines and autism, and in particular between the MMR vaccine and autism. While the media and common public opinion are quick to say that the link between vaccines and autism has been absolutely disproved, they have not done their due diligence research. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP, also called “vaccine court”), established by Congress in 1986, was created to provide a “no-fault” mechanism to compensate individuals found to be injured by vaccines. By 2010, the VICP had awarded nearly $2 billion to individuals who had suffered vaccine injuries. It has awarded at least 4 families millions of dollars after finding that their children had suffered from brain damage (encephalitis) caused by the MMR and other vaccines, which then resulted in regressive autistic symptoms. Since its inception, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars, to 1,322 families whose children were found to have suffered brain damage from vaccines. In August of 2014, a top research scientist whistleblower at the CDC released information that the CDC had manipulated data in an MMR and autism study to obscure the higher incidence of autism found in African-American boys who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age.

That being said, it remains that most children will not develop significant adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Is there any way to predict which children may be more vulnerable to vaccine reactions, or any way to prevent these reactions from occurring? In taking a closer look at the cases that were won in vaccine court, one case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by aggravating an underlying mitochondrial disorder, and another case was won on the grounds that the MMR caused autism by triggering an autoimmune reaction called Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which caused irreparable brain inflammation. One might conjecture then, that a child who has a suspected mitochondrial dysfunction, or who has a strong family history of autoimmune illness, may be more at risk for these rare, albeit devastating, reactions. What are possible signs of mitochondrial dysfunction – low muscle tone, easy fatigue/poor endurance, delayed developmental milestones, regressions with illness, and lab evidence (including high serum lactate, high serum CK, high AST, low serum carnitine).

A possible mitochondrial dysfunction and/or family history of autoimmune illness are not absolute contraindications to the MMR vaccine. They are, however, precautions. The risk of adverse vaccine reactions must be weighed against the risk of actual disease. In 2000, measles was thought to be mostly eliminated in the US. Measles is now on the rise, and hopefully will not reach the epidemic proportions it has in Europe. Now that the measles infection rate may potentially be climbing, this risk must be taken into account. Likewise, the community benefit of herd protection for infants and immunocompromised individuals must also be considered. These are all considerations that each parent must take into account for their own children. For children who may have mitochondrial dysfunction, or a family history of autoimmune illness, there are supplements that may help to reduce and prevent potential adverse reactions from the MMR vaccine while still enabling the measles protection that it can afford.

Takeaway: Most children will not experience adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine. Given the increasing prevalence of measles, consideration should be given to getting vaccinated, either now or within 72 hours of known exposure. However, if there is a possibility of mitochondrial dysfunction, or strong family history of autoimmune illness or neurodegenerative disease, Dr. Song and Dr. Ruiz are available to consult with you on supplements to help reduce the risk of adverse reactions. These may include carnitine, coQ10, milk thistle, vitamin A, homeopathic Thuja, and others.

Lhh

Hoopsdoc
01-28-2015, 08:25 PM
I agree. Don't want your kids to be artistic.

Liberal Arts degrees are worthless.

This is funny.

Also, this thread is the rare instance where I find myself in complete agreement with KC Native. Vaccinate your damn kids. All four of mine have been.

mr. tegu
01-28-2015, 09:19 PM
The OP still doesn't understand why using the "you have a very little chance of getting it" defense for argument is beyond idiotic for him to say. It's sad really.

BigRedChief
01-28-2015, 10:10 PM
These Anti-Vaxxers are lunatics, IMO, and if they continue this insane practice, these once controlled diseases will return.

It's beyond dumb.THIS!

As a parent you have an opportunity to prevent crippling diseases or worse death, in your children with a few shots? WTF are you thinking anti-vaxers? The autism angle has been completely debunked. Why would you not want to prevent preventable diseases??

KC native
01-28-2015, 10:18 PM
I would never bring it up again period if I wasn't endlessly stalked by KC Native on the subject.


I <3 U, U BIG DUMB RETARD!

KC native
01-28-2015, 10:19 PM
THIS!

As a parent you have an opportunity to prevent crippling diseases or worse death, in your children with a few shots? WTF are you thinking anti-vaxers? The autism angle has been completely debunked. Why would you not want to prevent preventable diseases??

DONT U KNOW DAT DERE IS MERCURIE AND LAYTECKS AND WATER AND VEYERUSSES N DOSE?

BigRedChief
01-28-2015, 10:25 PM
I'll let you know when I am scared of a stupid rash. I took my kid right into Disneyland when the outbreak happened. Right now the only sick people are all the scaredy cats that took their kids back in for a Measles booster. His class is like the walking dead sick with everything but the Measles and shedding that live virus all over the place. Yea, those damn unvaccinated kids sure are a menace.It's not the parents choice to not allow their kids the measles vaccine that worries me, its the other vaccines like Polio etc.

I cant believe we effectively eradicated diseases that in the past has killed millions but some are choosing to not protect their kids. It's their choice but we all have to live with the consequences of their choice.

Jimmya
01-28-2015, 11:00 PM
Vaccinate your kids..... Not that difficult!

Discuss Thrower
01-28-2015, 11:10 PM
Harsh take:

People who don't vaccinate their kids (for "belief" reasons regarding autism and etc. - free pass given to those who CANNOT be vaccinated) deserve to watch their kid blinded, deafened, disfigured or even killed by a disease that a vaccine would have been completely preventable.

They're not just putting their kids at risk by not vaccinating. They're putting countless others at risk, too.

Fuck them.

My right to ignore decades of medical research in order to maybe prevent my boy from not being able to look people in the eyes and be at ease in social situations overrides the rights of everyone else's children from being killed or maimed by virulent diseases.

The idiots who made that claim in the Lancet or whatever deserve to be sued by EVERYBODY for their ignorance.

Even IF there was a link between autism and vaccines, those fucks should have sat on their hands and said nothing because the good of vaccination outweights the potential bad.

kepp
01-29-2015, 11:19 AM
Vaccinations DO NOT cause autism. I'm still trying to figure out why people believe such asinine bullshit.

Because Jenny McCarthy said so!!!

BIG_DADDY
01-29-2015, 11:55 AM
Since everyone has been so nice to me in this thread I will also add my personal opinion and experience regarding those the most outspoken about mandatory vaccinations. My experience has been that they have been some of the most ignorant lazy self-righteous assholes I have ever met. Many of them are not even on schedule themselves and in reality they don’t give a rats ass about your kid or mine, it’s just part of the dog and pony show they are putting on and I will prove it.

The next time one approaches you about your kid and vaccines ask them if they got their flu shot this year. My experience has been most do not get it and many have not had a vaccine since childhood. They are not even close to being on schedule. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-schedule-easy-read.pdf
If they really cared about your kid they wouldn’t give them a live vaccine and allow them to shed all over school making others potentially sick. So who is really to blame here for the outbreak? At my child’s school they are the walking dead right now from recently inoculated kids getting their measles boosters. The short of this is they really don’t give a **** about you or your kid.http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf

I do think these people know some basics though. I think most understand the incestuous relationship Big Pharm has with the FDA, CDC and WHO. I think they know these organizations lie to us all the time. I think they know vaccines can and do cause autism and many other health problems even though they deny it. I mean the warning is right on the box the vaccine came in and even the laziest self-righteous asshole of all time reads the box before they inject their child, right? Even for the laziest of them all there is the recent CDC cover-up where their own scientist William Thomson admitted that they falsified documents to eliminate the link between the vaccine we are talking about here( MMR) and autism.

So why, with all this being the case, are they so over the top about their conviction? I believe it is because the day they forced their kids to drink the Kool-Aid they made a huge commitment to being right because there would nothing worse than being wrong and hurting your own child so they are all in. If their child is drinking the Kool-Aid then everyone else is going to drink the Kool-Aid too dammit.
In my experience the articles about the affluent and educated vaccinating the least is spot on. The schools, people and areas I referred to have a median house price of 1.8M, 3M, and 5M for Menlo Park, Woodside and Atherton. Put it this way, these kids will never have to work unless they want to. If there is anything that pisses off a lazy self-righteous asshole more than rich people not drinking their ****ing Kool-Aid I don’t know what it is. That only aggravates the situation more.

Lastly it has also been my experience from the Buck Institute and scientists attending the SENS Foundation Rejuvenation Biotechnology conference that there is a lot of concern about vaccines safety. Many of those scientists being in the industry have no interest of ever being on schedule or promoting the present vaccine schedule at all.

That is all, you guys can go back to calling me names now.

Pablo
01-29-2015, 11:58 AM
Does vaccinating protect against walloftext infection?

KC native
01-29-2015, 12:10 PM
Since everyone has been so nice to me in this thread I will also add my personal opinion and experience regarding those the most outspoken about mandatory vaccinations. My experience has been that they have been some of the most ignorant lazy self-righteous assholes I have ever met. Many of them are not even on schedule themselves and in reality they don’t give a rats ass about your kid or mine, it’s just part of the dog and pony show they are putting on and I will prove it.

The next time one approaches you about your kid and vaccines ask them if they got their flu shot this year. My experience has been most do not get it and many have not had a vaccine since childhood. They are not even close to being on schedule. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-schedule-easy-read.pdf
If they really cared about your kid they wouldn’t give them a live vaccine and allow them to shed all over school making others potentially sick. So who is really to blame here for the outbreak? At my child’s school they are the walking dead right now from recently inoculated kids getting their measles boosters. The short of this is they really don’t give a **** about you or your kid.http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf

I do think these people know some basics though. I think most understand the incestuous relationship Big Pharm has with the FDA, CDC and WHO. I think they know these organizations lie to us all the time. I think they know vaccines can and do cause autism and many other health problems even though they deny it. I mean the warning is right on the box the vaccine came in and even the laziest self-righteous asshole of all time reads the box before they inject their child, right? Even for the laziest of them all there is the recent CDC cover-up where their own scientist William Thomson admitted that they falsified documents to eliminate the link between the vaccine we are talking about here( MMR) and autism.

So why, with all this being the case, are they so over the top about their conviction? I believe it is because the day they forced their kids to drink the Kool-Aid they made a huge commitment to being right because there would nothing worse than being wrong and hurting your own child so they are all in. If their child is drinking the Kool-Aid then everyone else is going to drink the Kool-Aid too dammit.
In my experience the articles about the affluent and educated vaccinating the least is spot on. The schools, people and areas I referred to have a median house price of 1.8M, 3M, and 5M for Menlo Park, Woodside and Atherton. Put it this way, these kids will never have to work unless they want to. If there is anything that pisses off a lazy self-righteous asshole more than rich people not drinking their ****ing Kool-Aid I don’t know what it is. That only aggravates the situation more.

Lastly it has also been my experience from the Buck Institute and scientists attending the SENS Foundation Rejuvenation Biotechnology conference that there is a lot of concern about vaccines safety. Many of those scientists being in the industry have no interest of ever being on schedule or promoting the present vaccine schedule at all.

That is all, you guys can go back to calling me names now.

That is a lot of words to say, "I'm a selfish dumbfuck who refuse to look at the objective evidence for vaccination so I won't vaccinate my kids because I'm proud of being an ignorant fuck."

tiptap
01-29-2015, 12:21 PM
Since everyone has been so nice to me in this thread I will also add my personal opinion and experience regarding those the most outspoken about mandatory vaccinations. My experience has been that they have been some of the most ignorant lazy self-righteous assholes I have ever met. Many of them are not even on schedule themselves and in reality they don’t give a rats ass about your kid or mine, it’s just part of the dog and pony show they are putting on and I will prove it.

The next time one approaches you about your kid and vaccines ask them if they got their flu shot this year. My experience has been most do not get it and many have not had a vaccine since childhood. They are not even close to being on schedule. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-schedule-easy-read.pdf
If they really cared about your kid they wouldn’t give them a live vaccine and allow them to shed all over school making others potentially sick. So who is really to blame here for the outbreak? At my child’s school they are the walking dead right now from recently inoculated kids getting their measles boosters. The short of this is they really don’t give a **** about you or your kid.http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf

I do think these people know some basics though. I think most understand the incestuous relationship Big Pharm has with the FDA, CDC and WHO. I think they know these organizations lie to us all the time. I think they know vaccines can and do cause autism and many other health problems even though they deny it. I mean the warning is right on the box the vaccine came in and even the laziest self-righteous asshole of all time reads the box before they inject their child, right? Even for the laziest of them all there is the recent CDC cover-up where their own scientist William Thomson admitted that they falsified documents to eliminate the link between the vaccine we are talking about here( MMR) and autism.

So why, with all this being the case, are they so over the top about their conviction? I believe it is because the day they forced their kids to drink the Kool-Aid they made a huge commitment to being right because there would nothing worse than being wrong and hurting your own child so they are all in. If their child is drinking the Kool-Aid then everyone else is going to drink the Kool-Aid too dammit.
In my experience the articles about the affluent and educated vaccinating the least is spot on. The schools, people and areas I referred to have a median house price of 1.8M, 3M, and 5M for Menlo Park, Woodside and Atherton. Put it this way, these kids will never have to work unless they want to. If there is anything that pisses off a lazy self-righteous asshole more than rich people not drinking their ****ing Kool-Aid I don’t know what it is. That only aggravates the situation more.

Lastly it has also been my experience from the Buck Institute and scientists attending the SENS Foundation Rejuvenation Biotechnology conference that there is a lot of concern about vaccines safety. Many of those scientists being in the industry have no interest of ever being on schedule or promoting the present vaccine schedule at all.

That is all, you guys can go back to calling me names now.

The Buck Institute offers lots of well researched questions for students to study relevant subjects including making decisions about vaccination, in particular Lyme disease but the process of decision would be the same. It also includes many such studies about the benefits of Evolution Theory. I am sure your private conversations are much more informative than what the BIE puts out for consumption on the internet. They also are researching new vaccines.

Fish
01-29-2015, 12:23 PM
Since everyone has been so nice to me in this thread I will also add my personal opinion and experience regarding those the most outspoken about mandatory vaccinations. My experience has been that they have been some of the most ignorant lazy self-righteous assholes I have ever met. Many of them are not even on schedule themselves and in reality they don’t give a rats ass about your kid or mine, it’s just part of the dog and pony show they are putting on and I will prove it.

The next time one approaches you about your kid and vaccines ask them if they got their flu shot this year. My experience has been most do not get it and many have not had a vaccine since childhood. They are not even close to being on schedule. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-schedule-easy-read.pdf
If they really cared about your kid they wouldn’t give them a live vaccine and allow them to shed all over school making others potentially sick. So who is really to blame here for the outbreak? At my child’s school they are the walking dead right now from recently inoculated kids getting their measles boosters. The short of this is they really don’t give a **** about you or your kid.http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf

I do think these people know some basics though. I think most understand the incestuous relationship Big Pharm has with the FDA, CDC and WHO. I think they know these organizations lie to us all the time. I think they know vaccines can and do cause autism and many other health problems even though they deny it. I mean the warning is right on the box the vaccine came in and even the laziest self-righteous asshole of all time reads the box before they inject their child, right? Even for the laziest of them all there is the recent CDC cover-up where their own scientist William Thomson admitted that they falsified documents to eliminate the link between the vaccine we are talking about here( MMR) and autism.

So why, with all this being the case, are they so over the top about their conviction? I believe it is because the day they forced their kids to drink the Kool-Aid they made a huge commitment to being right because there would nothing worse than being wrong and hurting your own child so they are all in. If their child is drinking the Kool-Aid then everyone else is going to drink the Kool-Aid too dammit.
In my experience the articles about the affluent and educated vaccinating the least is spot on. The schools, people and areas I referred to have a median house price of 1.8M, 3M, and 5M for Menlo Park, Woodside and Atherton. Put it this way, these kids will never have to work unless they want to. If there is anything that pisses off a lazy self-righteous asshole more than rich people not drinking their ****ing Kool-Aid I don’t know what it is. That only aggravates the situation more.

Lastly it has also been my experience from the Buck Institute and scientists attending the SENS Foundation Rejuvenation Biotechnology conference that there is a lot of concern about vaccines safety. Many of those scientists being in the industry have no interest of ever being on schedule or promoting the present vaccine schedule at all.

That is all, you guys can go back to calling me names now.

You're basing your decision on your own experience, and ignoring many decades of scientific study and the history of vaccination itself.

The truth is that there is no causal link between vaccines and autism. There is none. Nothing you've posted shows a causal link. There is not a lot of concern about vaccine safety. That's just not true. Vaccines are not 100% safe, or 100% effective. But nothing in the field of medicine is.

You keep talking about "Shedding" of people who receive the vaccine. It shows a lack of understanding of how these things work.

I see you also mention William W. Thompson as evidence of CDC coverup. But you must have missed when he himself released a statement last August retracting the claims. Here's his direct quote from August:

I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/28/a-bad-day-for-antivaccinationists-a-retraction-and-the-cdc-whistleblower-issues-a-statement/

Those are his exact words. The fellow you're holding up as proof of CDC nefarious coverups.

I know you're unlikely to change your mind here, but I do hope someday you will consider reexamining your understanding of this topic.

tiptap
01-29-2015, 12:25 PM
Since everyone has been so nice to me in this thread I will also add my personal opinion and experience regarding those the most outspoken about mandatory vaccinations. My experience has been that they have been some of the most ignorant lazy self-righteous assholes I have ever met. Many of them are not even on schedule themselves and in reality they don’t give a rats ass about your kid or mine, it’s just part of the dog and pony show they are putting on and I will prove it.

The next time one approaches you about your kid and vaccines ask them if they got their flu shot this year. My experience has been most do not get it and many have not had a vaccine since childhood. They are not even close to being on schedule. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-schedule-easy-read.pdf
If they really cared about your kid they wouldn’t give them a live vaccine and allow them to shed all over school making others potentially sick. So who is really to blame here for the outbreak? At my child’s school they are the walking dead right now from recently inoculated kids getting their measles boosters. The short of this is they really don’t give a **** about you or your kid.http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf

I do think these people know some basics though. I think most understand the incestuous relationship Big Pharm has with the FDA, CDC and WHO. I think they know these organizations lie to us all the time. I think they know vaccines can and do cause autism and many other health problems even though they deny it. I mean the warning is right on the box the vaccine came in and even the laziest self-righteous asshole of all time reads the box before they inject their child, right? Even for the laziest of them all there is the recent CDC cover-up where their own scientist William Thomson admitted that they falsified documents to eliminate the link between the vaccine we are talking about here( MMR) and autism.

So why, with all this being the case, are they so over the top about their conviction? I believe it is because the day they forced their kids to drink the Kool-Aid they made a huge commitment to being right because there would nothing worse than being wrong and hurting your own child so they are all in. If their child is drinking the Kool-Aid then everyone else is going to drink the Kool-Aid too dammit.
In my experience the articles about the affluent and educated vaccinating the least is spot on. The schools, people and areas I referred to have a median house price of 1.8M, 3M, and 5M for Menlo Park, Woodside and Atherton. Put it this way, these kids will never have to work unless they want to. If there is anything that pisses off a lazy self-righteous asshole more than rich people not drinking their ****ing Kool-Aid I don’t know what it is. That only aggravates the situation more.

Lastly it has also been my experience from the Buck Institute and scientists attending the SENS Foundation Rejuvenation Biotechnology conference that there is a lot of concern about vaccines safety. Many of those scientists being in the industry have no interest of ever being on schedule or promoting the present vaccine schedule at all.

That is all, you guys can go back to calling me names now.

The Buck Institute offers lots of well researched questions for students to study relevant subjects including making decisions about vaccination, in particular Lyme disease but the process of decision would be the same. It also includes many such studies about the benefits of Evolution Theory. I am sure your private conversation are much more informative than what the BIE puts out for consumption on the internet. They also are researching new vaccines.

|Zach|
01-29-2015, 12:47 PM
Big Daddy and Jenny McCarthy on one side and science on the other.

Really a tough call.

BIG_DADDY
01-29-2015, 12:48 PM
You're basing your decision on your own experience, and ignoring many decades of scientific study and the history of vaccination itself.

The truth is that there is no causal link between vaccines and autism. There is none. Nothing you've posted shows a causal link. There is not a lot of concern about vaccine safety. That's just not true. Vaccines are not 100% safe, or 100% effective. But nothing in the field of medicine is.

You keep talking about "Shedding" of people who receive the vaccine. It shows a lack of understanding of how these things work.

I see you also mention William W. Thompson as evidence of CDC coverup. But you must have missed when he himself released a statement last August retracting the claims. Here's his direct quote from August:



Those are his exact words. The fellow you're holding up as proof of CDC nefarious coverups.

I know you're unlikely to change your mind here, but I do hope someday you will consider reexamining your understanding of this topic.

I really appreciate your civility. To be clear I am not anti-vaccine. I am against a mandatory vaccine schedule.

As far as William Thompson is concerned they still covered up the link, period. He will pay a big price for that like everyone who crosses the FDA, CDC or WHO. His personal opinion of vaccines has nothing to do with the cover-up. It especially irrelevant being he was under the gun when he said it.

Sully
01-29-2015, 12:52 PM
So you have less than 1 chance out of million of catching the measles, good point.

If you count the vaccinated and non-vaccinated population as a whole.

probably different if you only charted the non-vaccinated.

Even more different if you counted the non-vaccinated who had been exposed (Let's not forget they are greatly shielded from infection by smart people surrounding them who were vaccinated).

duncan_idaho
01-29-2015, 01:03 PM
Big Daddy and Jenny McCarthy on one side and science on the other.

Really a tough call.

Don't forget Rob Schneider.

|Zach|
01-29-2015, 01:03 PM
Don't forget Rob Schneider.

Makin copppiiiiesssss

the Talking Can
01-29-2015, 01:07 PM
retard-level to be afraid of vaccines

WhiteWhale
01-29-2015, 01:10 PM
1. Claim that something the vast majority does or thinks is wrong and harmful.

2. Claim conspiracy

3. Use ad hoc reasoning and non sequitur arguments while insisting everyone else is 'too dumb to see the truth'.

4. Repeat

Pretty much every conspiracy theorist does this stuff. Creationists, New age hippies, 9/11 truthers... same format every time.

Pablo
01-29-2015, 01:11 PM
Don't forget Rob Schneider.Without proper vaccines, Rob turned into The Animal.

Scary stuff.

Jimmya
01-29-2015, 01:14 PM
Jenny knows all!

hometeam
01-29-2015, 01:15 PM
So on one hand people believe that if you wish real hard at night an invisible Jewish zombie will say all the bad things you have done are ok, but on the other, you cant believe tens of thousands of peer reviewed studies, and oh yea, the near eradication of diseases like smallpox, and 98% success rate of vaccines.

LOL WOW

Pablo
01-29-2015, 01:16 PM
I let G-list Hollywood types influence my life decisions regularly.

KC native
01-29-2015, 01:31 PM
I let G-list Hollywood types influence my life decisions regularly.

What is Lorenzo Lamas' opinion on vaccinations?

Hootie
01-29-2015, 01:48 PM
Not better than a DeBerg thread

Gonzo
01-29-2015, 02:06 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

As many of you know, my son is autistic. He's on the extreme high end... Very sweet, smart and shows very few symptoms of the disorder.
It took several professionals a very long time to diagnose him because of the that very reason. However, he's six and still has a lot of issues with communication. He's got great eye contact, he shows no social dysfunction and loves people. This being said, when he was 18 months old I took him in for his immunizations.
I noticed a sudden personality change less that 2 days later. He seemed to concentrate on things that he previously found trivial. He became very self-sustaining. In other words, I can't come right out and say it was due to the vaccines but if I had to do it over again, I would've had them do one or two at a time spanning a month or two instead of the large amount they gave him all at once.
Would it had made a difference? Who knows. All I know is that he was a different baby after that.

If any of you are having kids, I reccommend asking about this.

Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

KC native
01-29-2015, 02:10 PM
Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

This won't tell you anything because the autism spectrum has been broadened and doctors are more aware of the condition (leading to earlier diagnosis and diagnosis of cases that wouldn't have been considered autism in the past).

mr. tegu
01-29-2015, 02:25 PM
Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

Vaccines (varies by disease) predate the actual identification and classification of the disorder by 20 years or more. Note that the symptoms and terminology were identified decades before the measles vaccine and in some form known well before that.

BIG_DADDY
01-29-2015, 02:50 PM
As many of you know, my son is autistic. He's on the extreme high end... Very sweet, smart and shows very few symptoms of the disorder.
It took several professionals a very long time to diagnose him because of the that very reason. However, he's six and still has a lot of issues with communication. He's got great eye contact, he shows no social dysfunction and loves people. This being said, when he was 18 months old I took him in for his immunizations.
I noticed a sudden personality change less that 2 days later. He seemed to concentrate on things that he previously found trivial. He became very self-sustaining. In other words, I can't come right out and say it was due to the vaccines but if I had to do it over again, I would've had them do one or two at a time spanning a month or two instead of the large amount they gave him all at once.
Would it had made a difference? Who knows. All I know is that he was a different baby after that.

If any of you are having kids, I reccommend asking about this.

Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

There are tons of people just like you out there. the courts only pay out to the very worst of the worst and obvious. For every one person who gets paid there are tons that are damaged and get nothing. It goes way beyond autism though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsnL9yHApIA

Sorce
01-29-2015, 02:55 PM
http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839/

BigRedChief
01-29-2015, 03:10 PM
retard-level to be afraid of vaccinesendangering others has already started. Mom visits Doctor and her baby ends up In quarantine

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health/measles-antivaxxers/index.html

Fish
01-29-2015, 03:20 PM
endangering others has already started. Mom visits Doctor and her baby ends up In quarantine

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health/measles-antivaxxers/index.html

Many Docs are now refusing patients who choose not to vaccinate...

http://i.imgur.com/pb19t45.jpg

BigRedChief
01-29-2015, 03:23 PM
Many Docs are now refusing patients who choose not to vaccinate...

http://i.imgur.com/pb19t45.jpgYou bring your kid into the Doctors office with a chest cold and your baby gets exposed to measles before vaccination age? What a friggin nightmare.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2015, 03:31 PM
Many Docs are now refusing patients who choose not to vaccinate...


When I was interviewing pediatricians in 2008 before the arrival of my first child, I was told flat out by at least five doctors "I abide by the AMA immunization schedule. If you want to take your medical advice from Jenny McCarthy, you need to find another doctor because you're not welcome here."

kepp
01-29-2015, 03:48 PM
As many of you know, my son is autistic. He's on the extreme high end... Very sweet, smart and shows very few symptoms of the disorder.
It took several professionals a very long time to diagnose him because of the that very reason. However, he's six and still has a lot of issues with communication. He's got great eye contact, he shows no social dysfunction and loves people. This being said, when he was 18 months old I took him in for his immunizations.
I noticed a sudden personality change less that 2 days later. He seemed to concentrate on things that he previously found trivial. He became very self-sustaining. In other words, I can't come right out and say it was due to the vaccines but if I had to do it over again, I would've had them do one or two at a time spanning a month or two instead of the large amount they gave him all at once.
Would it had made a difference? Who knows. All I know is that he was a different baby after that.

If any of you are having kids, I reccommend asking about this.

Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

Thinking back on it, when it was time for our second child's MMR vaccinations, we opted to spread them out rather than get them all at once.

Beef Supreme
01-29-2015, 03:58 PM
You gotta get 'em dip-tet boosters yearly or else they'll develop lockjaw and night vision.

ThaVirus
01-29-2015, 03:59 PM
You gotta get 'em dip-tet boosters yearly or else they'll develop lockjaw and night vision


But first they gotta kill a few people...

Beef Supreme
01-29-2015, 04:01 PM
But first they gotta kill a few people...

I'm quoting Raising Arizona. Guess I better make that clear or someone might think I was serious.

Fish
01-29-2015, 04:09 PM
FYI..... here's what Anti-Vaccine propaganda looks like:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-mccarthyism-what-if-the-vaccine-paradigm-itself-is-deliberately-flawed/5427768

Read through that, and many people will be tempted to believe it. It looks and sounds pretty convincing. I can honestly see why a normal parent might read that and have serious questions about vaccines.

But here's the thing.... it's all complete bullshit. That's purely a propaganda piece. Nothing in it is true.

It lists the authors as Dr. Gary Null and Richard Gale. Hmm.. a doctor huh? Except he's not actually a doctor. He's a radio host who got a PhD from a phony online distance-learning school who has since been legally required to stop giving PhDs because the board of regents shut them down. The other author is the executive producer of his radio show. Their show is about (shocker!), conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, and sells health supplements that can cure anything.

But this is how so many people get caught up in pseudoscience. There are literally thousands of similar websites out there like this.

Don't fall for it.

Fish
01-29-2015, 04:22 PM
Here's some truth about vaccine studies that have actually been done. A recent meta study was performed, which is basically a collection of independent scientific studies.

The work in this case was a meta-study, combining the results of five previous studies involving 1,256,407 children with five case-controlled studies of a further 9920 children. Case controlled studies compare patients who have had a particular outcome, in this case a diagnosis of autism, with closely matched groups who have not to see if there was any difference in exposure to factors such as vaccines. The larger studies, on the other hand, looked at selections of the population to see what proportion of those who had been vaccinated developed autism, as against those who had not.

The findings were summarized as:

• There was no relationship between vaccination and autism
• There was no relationship between vaccination and Autism Spectrum Disorder
•There was no relationship between autism and the MMR vaccine
•There was no relationship between [autism/ASD] and thimerosal
•There was no relationship between [autism/ASD] and mercury
•Findings of this meta-analysis suggest that vaccinations are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367

This goes way beyond just the CDC or other US entity. This info is from studies all over the world.

Here's another done in the UK:

Background
We undertook an epidemiological study to investigate whether measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may be causally associated with autism.

Methods
Children with autism born since 1979 were identified from special needs/disability registers and special schools in eight North Thames health districts, UK. Information from clinical records was linked to immunisation data held on the child health computing system. We looked for evidence of a change in trend in incidence or age at diagnosis associated with the introduction of MMR vaccination to the UK in 1988. Clustering of onsets within defined postvaccination periods was investigated by the case-series method.

Interpretation
Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673699012398

If you're still not convinced then try and find any peer-reviewed scientific study from anywhere in the world that finds the opposite.

Mr. Laz
01-29-2015, 06:33 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RfdZTZQvuCo?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BigRedChief
01-29-2015, 07:54 PM
Now there are measles outbreaks in 14 states. All traced back to non-vaccinated Americans.

thabear04
01-30-2015, 02:00 AM
In my city Delano someone from McDonald go the measles.

Silock
01-30-2015, 02:01 AM
<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><iframe src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/embed/mgid:arc:video:comedycentral.com:26827961-3f37-41c4-bf2c-9dafcb5f2e5a" width="512" height="288" frameborder="0"></iframe><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.cc.com/shows/the-nightly-show">The Nightly Show</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href="http://www.cc.com/shows/the-nightly-show/full-episodes">The Nightly Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/thenightlyshow">The Nightly Show on Facebook</a>,<a href="http://www.cc.com/shows/the-nightly-show/video-clips">The Nightly Show Video Archive</a></p></div></div>

thabear04
01-30-2015, 02:03 AM
http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/person-with-measles-traveled-through-kern-county-according-to-kern-county-public-health-officer-012915

eDave
01-30-2015, 02:56 AM
In my city Delano someone from McDonald go the measles.

Wait. What? You live in DELANO?

thabear04
01-30-2015, 03:46 AM
Wait. What? You live in DELANO?

Yes Delano,Ca

WilliamTheIrish
01-30-2015, 08:51 AM
I like the username The "BIG_CONTAGION".

Has sort of a WWF feel to it.

KC native
01-30-2015, 08:52 AM
I like the username The "BIG_CONTAGION".

Has sort of a WWF feel to it.

I second this.

MODS! MAKE IT HAPPEN!

KC native
01-30-2015, 08:53 AM
And Big_Contagion,

Have you been shamed enough to at least re-evaluate your retarded opinion on this matter?

WhiteWhale
01-30-2015, 11:54 AM
This won't tell you anything because the autism spectrum has been broadened and doctors are more aware of the condition (leading to earlier diagnosis and diagnosis of cases that wouldn't have been considered autism in the past).

Right.

I was tested twice for autism as a child and came out clean. IQ tests and brain scans. They ended up recommending I go into the advanced classes, because my IQ was abnormally high. Back then 'autistic' kids had to have low IQ's. Now we've stretched the definition to include things I view as social constructs rather than actual disorders. People who don't like to talk or aren't very social are just slapped with a label. In many cases of adults they are people seeking out this label to excuse their behavior.

Point being in my late 20's I was diagnosed with a spectrum disorder. I don't consider myself autistic at all. I think a lot of the diagnostics on this have become overblown bullshit. I also don't appreciate how 95% of the 'spectrum disorder' cases are men/boys.

Personally I think i'd be screwed up today if my parents raised me the way many parents raise their kids with spectrum disorders.

BIG_DADDY
02-03-2015, 05:30 PM
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Should the Recently Vaccinated be Quarantined to Prevent Outbreaks? - Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease

Washington, D.C., Feb. 2, 2015 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Health officials are blaming unvaccinated children for the recent measles outbreak that started at Disneyland. However, with no blood tests proving the outbreak is from wild measles, the most likely source of the outbreak is a recently vaccinated individual, according to published science.

Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Furthermore, vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease.11,12,13

"Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk," explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist. Manookian's award winning documentary, The Greater Good, aims to open a dialog about vaccine safety.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.14,15 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.16

"Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations," says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. "This is the minimum amount of time required to prevent transmission of infectious diseases to the rest of the population, including individuals who have been previously vaccinated."

"Vaccine failure and failure to acknowledge that live virus vaccines can spread disease have resulted in an increase in outbreaks of infectious disease in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals," says Manookian, "CDC should instruct physicians who administer vaccinations to inform their patients about the risks posed to others by those who've been recently vaccinated."

According to the Weston A. Price Foundation, the best protection against infectious disease is a healthy immune system, supported by adequate vitamin A and vitamin C. Well-nourished children easily recover from infectious disease and rarely suffer complications.

The number of measles deaths declined from 7575 in 1920 (10,000 per year in many years in the 1910s) to an average of 432 each year from 1958-1962.17 The vaccine was introduced in 1963. Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S. and 108 deaths from the MMR vaccine.18

The Weston A. Price Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nutrition education foundation with the mission of disseminating accurate, science-based information on diet and health. Named after nutrition pioneer Weston A. Price, DDS, author of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, the Washington, DC-based Foundation publishes a quarterly journal for its 15,000 members, supports 600 local chapters worldwide and hosts a yearly international conference. The Foundation phone number is (202) 363-4394, www.westonaprice.org, info@westonaprice.org.

References:

1. Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011 http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/27/cid.ciu105

2. Detection of Measles Virus RNA in Urine Specimens from Vaccine Recipients http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7494055

3. Comparison of the Safety, Vaccine Virus Shedding and Immunogenicity of Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B, Live Cold-Adapted, Administered to Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)-Infected and Non-HIV Infected Adultshttp://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/181/2/725.full

4. Sibling Transmission of Vaccine-Derived Rotavirus (RotaTeq) Associated with Rotavirus Gastroenteritishttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/2/e438

5. Polio vaccination may continue after wild virus fades http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2008/10/polio-vaccination-may-continue-after-wild-virus-fades

6. Engineering attenuated virus vaccines by controlling replication fidelity http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/abs/nm1726.html

7. CASE OF VACCINE-ASSOCIATED MEASLES FIVE WEEKS POST-IMMUNISATION, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA, OCTOBER 2013http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20649

8. The Safety Profile of Varicella Vaccine: A 10-Year Review http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S165.full

9. Comparison of Shedding Characteristics of Seasonal Influenza Virus (Sub)Types and Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09; Germany, 2007-2011 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051653

10. Epigenetics of Host-Pathogen Interactions: The Road Ahead and the Road Behind http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003007

11. Animal Models for Influenza Virus Pathogenesis and Transmission http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063653/

12. Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate mode http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063653/

13. Study Finds Parents Can Pass Whooping Cough to Babies http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/health/03coug.html?_r=0

14. Immunized People Getting Whooping Cough http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/jun/12/immunized-people-getting-whooping-cough/

15. Vaccine Failure -- Over 1000 Got Mumps in NY in Last Six Months http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/06/vaccine-failure--over-1000-get-mumps-in-ny-in-last-six-months.aspx

16. Impact of Repeated Vaccination on Vaccine Effectiveness Against Influenza A(H3N2) and B During 8 Seasons http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/29/cid.ciu680.full

17. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm

18. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm
- See more at: http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html#sthash.MpxD0R5V.dpuf

|Zach|
02-03-2015, 05:32 PM
The filter bubble Big Daddy is in is strong.

If you try hard enough you are going to find something on the internet to back up your thought no matter how mind numbingly retarded it is.

Pitt Gorilla
02-03-2015, 06:27 PM
What's the source on that "article"?

WhiteWhale
02-03-2015, 06:39 PM
The filter bubble Big Daddy is in is strong.

If you try hard enough you are going to find something on the internet to back up your thought no matter how mind numbingly retarded it is.

Yup.

Examples:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Tnr3f-vaesQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah, it's boring. It's a documentary about the holocaust 'hoax' and the jewish 'problem'.

Of course, You'll find more historians denying the holocaust than physicians and biologists denying the effectiveness of vaccines.

Lex Luthor
02-03-2015, 07:18 PM
What's the source on that "article"?
I was able to find the source of Big_Daddy's ridiculous article. The claims in the article came from the Weston A. Price foundation, which is led by a couple of people who are neither scientists nor physicians. They specialize in recommending Vegan diets and they tell people that they should drink un-Pasteurized milk. They have a pretty bad reputation for quackery.

The actual article can be found here (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html).

A little info about the foundation can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation).

|Zach|
02-03-2015, 07:26 PM
I was able to find the source of Big_Daddy's ridiculous article. The claims in the article came from the Weston A. Price foundation, which is led by a couple of people who are neither scientists nor physicians. They specialize in recommending Vegan diets and they tell people that they should drink un-Pasteurized milk. They have a pretty bad reputation for quackery.

The actual article can be found here (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html).

A little info about the foundation can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation).

Hey great work Big Daddy!

You are who we thought you were.

Silock
02-03-2015, 07:29 PM
The problem is that EVEN IF vaccinated individuals can spread the disease, that DOES NOT INVALIDATE the rationale behind vaccinating everyone.

Dave Lane
02-03-2015, 07:36 PM
There were like 3-4 days I actually believed this, in 1997

BigRedChief
02-03-2015, 07:39 PM
The problem is that EVEN IF vaccinated individuals can spread the disease, that DOES NOT INVALIDATE the rationale behind vaccinating everyone.Every single one of the current 114 documented cases of measles in the USA can be traced back to an unvaccinated person.

BigRedChief
02-03-2015, 07:42 PM
I was able to find the source of Big_Daddy's ridiculous article. The claims in the article came from the Weston A. Price foundation, which is led by a couple of people who are neither scientists nor physicians. They specialize in recommending Vegan diets and they tell people that they should drink un-Pasteurized milk. They have a pretty bad reputation for quackery.

The actual article can be found here (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html).

A little info about the foundation can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation).WTF Big Daddy? Thats the lamest scientific source ever.

|Zach|
02-03-2015, 07:42 PM
The research linking autism to vaccines is even more bogus than you think

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7965885/the-research-linking-autism-to-vaccines-is-even-more-terrible-than

In 1998, an esteemed medical journal published a paper with a startling conclusion: that the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine — administered to millions of children across the globe each year — could cause autism.

This study, led by the discredited physician-researcher Andrew Wakefield, is where the current vaccine-autism debate started. It has since been thoroughly eviscerated: The Lancet retracted the paper, investigators have described the research as an "elaborate fraud," and Wakefield has lost his medical license.


But public-health experts say that Wakefield's false data and erroneous conclusions, while resoundingly rejected in the academic world, still drive some parents' current worries about the MMR shot.

Here are five reasons — and many links to further reading — that should remind you just how terrible his research was.

1) Forget the fraud and data manipulation: the MMR vaccine-autism study was bad science

To begin with, Wakefield's association between the MMR vaccine and autism was based on a case report involving only 12 children. "Case reports" are detailed stories about particular patients' medical histories. And — because they basically just stories — they are considered among weakest kinds of medical studies.

In this case, many children have autism and nearly all take the MMR vaccine. Finding, among a group of a dozen children, that most of them happen to have both is not at all surprising and in no way proves that the MMR vaccine causes autism. (Wakefield also proposed a link between the vaccine and a new inflammatory bowel syndrome, which has since been called "autistic enterocolitis" and also discredited.)

But don't stop with the retracted study. The totality of the evidence opposes this vaccine-autism theory. Large-scale studies involving thousands of participants in several countries have failed to establish a link between the MMR vaccine and the mental developmental disorder. As one of the most thorough studies to date showed, nearly half a million kids who got the vaccine were compared to some 100,000 who didn't, and there were no differences in the autism rates between the two groups. "This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism," the authors wrote in The New England Journal of Medicine.

Studies published in The Lancet, The Journal of Pediatric Infectious Diseases, PLoS One, and — among others — The Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders have also found no association between the vaccine and autism.

2) Study author Andrew Wakefield manipulated and misrepresented his data


A British investigative journalist, Brian Deer, followed up with the families of each of the 12 kids in the study. He concluded, "No case was free of misreporting or alteration." In other words, Andrew Wakefield, lead author of the original report, manipulated his data. (See the popup chart in this report for details.)

In The British Medical Journal, Deer spells out exactly what he found, and it's rather shocking that this study was ever published in the first place. You learn that the parents of many of the kids deny the conclusions in the study; some of the kids who Wakefield suggested were diagnosed with autism actually weren't; others who Wakefield suggested were "previously normal" actually had pre-existing developmental issues before getting their shots.

3) The paper is based on blood samples Wakefield drew at his kid's birthday party

Even more absurdly, when the General Medical Council (the UK's medical regulator) began to investigate Wakefield, they found that he had paid children at his son's 10th birthday party to donate their blood for his research. That isn't exactly a controlled and ethical setting.

In fact, in deciding to take his UK medical license away, the GMC said Wakefield acted with "callous disregard for the distress and pain the children might suffer."

4) Wakefield filed a patent for an MMR vaccine alternative

Wakefield also had financial conflicts of interest. Among them, while he was discrediting the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, and suggesting parents should give their children single shots over a longer period of time, he was conveniently filing patents for single-disease vaccines.

"For the vast majority of children, the MMR vaccine is fine," he said, "but I believe there are sufficient anxieties for a case to be made to administer the three vaccinations separately." He also suggested the long-term safety studies of the MMR shouldn't be trusted.

Brian Deer's investigation revealed that, in June 1997, he had filed a patent for a supposedly "safer" single measles vaccine. Deer writes, "Although Wakefield denied any such plans, his proposed shot, and a network of companies intended to raise venture capital for purported inventions — including 'a replacement for attenuated viral vaccines', commercial testing kits and what he claimed to be a possible 'complete cure' for autism — were set out in confidential documents."

5) Wakefield has refused to replicate the paper's findings

At the very bedrock of science is the concept of falsification: a scientist runs a test, gathers his findings, and tries to disprove himself by replicating his experiment in other contexts. When that's done, only then can he know that his findings were true.

Wakefield has never done this. As the editor of The BMJ points out, "Wakefield has been given ample opportunity either to replicate the paper's findings, or to say he was mistaken. He has declined to do either." In 2004, 10 of his coauthors on the original paper retracted it, but Wakefield didn't join them, and he has since continued to push his views, including doing the rounds on the anti-vaxxer speakers' circuit and publishing books.

On his own website, he portrays himself as an embattled hero: "In the pursuit of possible links between childhood vaccines, intestinal inflammation, and neurologic injury in children, Dr. Wakefield lost his job in the Department of Medicine at London’s Royal Free Hospital, his country, his career, and his medical license." He even tried to sue the BMJ and Deer, suggesting they were going after him in some sort of vendetta. So far, these lawsuits have gone nowhere.

jspchief
02-03-2015, 07:49 PM
Wakefield has been thoroughly exposed as a fraud to the point of losing his medical license, but dumbshits like big daddy and Jenny Mccarthy treat his study as gospel.

DaFace
02-03-2015, 08:21 PM
From the 1940s:

http://i.imgur.com/BZQgGq0.jpg

KC native
02-03-2015, 08:26 PM
LMAO @ Big Contagion's hootie style double down.

Rausch
02-03-2015, 08:33 PM
I could see there being more reason for worry when things like mercury were still being injected. Hell, just like antibiotics, there's a downside to too much of any medicine.

I wouldn't be putting my kid through 20 vaccinations in fear of every cold or flu.

I also wouldn't take the risk of not protecting them from things like small pox...

Fish
02-03-2015, 08:44 PM
We can look at the experiences of several developed countries after they let their immunization levels drop. Three countries – Great Britain, Sweden, and Japan – cut back the use of pertussis vaccine because of fear about the vaccine. The effect was dramatic and immediate. In Great Britain, a drop in pertussis vaccination in 1974 was followed by an epidemic of more than 100,000 cases of pertussis and 36 deaths by 1978. In Japan, around the same time, a drop in vaccination rates from 70% to 20%-40% led to a jump in pertussis from 393 cases and no deaths in 1974 to 13,000 cases and 41 deaths in 1979. In Sweden, the annual incidence rate of pertussis per 100,000 children 0-6 years of age increased from 700 cases in 1981 to 3,200 in 1985. It seems clear from these experiences that not only would diseases not be disappearing without vaccines, but if we were to stop vaccinating, they would come back.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/29/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-vacci/

wazu
02-03-2015, 08:59 PM
As many of you know, my son is autistic. He's on the extreme high end... Very sweet, smart and shows very few symptoms of the disorder.
It took several professionals a very long time to diagnose him because of the that very reason. However, he's six and still has a lot of issues with communication. He's got great eye contact, he shows no social dysfunction and loves people. This being said, when he was 18 months old I took him in for his immunizations.
I noticed a sudden personality change less that 2 days later. He seemed to concentrate on things that he previously found trivial. He became very self-sustaining. In other words, I can't come right out and say it was due to the vaccines but if I had to do it over again, I would've had them do one or two at a time spanning a month or two instead of the large amount they gave him all at once.
Would it had made a difference? Who knows. All I know is that he was a different baby after that.

If any of you are having kids, I reccommend asking about this.

Here's a question. How many documented cases of this disorder were there before we started giving so many vaccines? How many do we have now?

I have a friend who experienced exact same thing with his daughter. This was in 2003, and neither he nor I had heard of this connection when he found out she was autistic. He described that his daughter got the shot, and didn't feel good for a couple of days so they thought she was just acting different due to an illness. But she never snapped out of it. Before that she had been waving and saying "Bye Daddy" and "Hi Daddy" and such, but after the shot she went silent.

I had a newborn and his story shook me up so I started googling and of course found all these sites of people making the connection and telling their own similar stories. The belief at the time was that it was thimerosal additive they used in the MMR shot. There was no scientific study that was proving anything, but my friend's story combined with internet speculation freaked me out.

We ended up having our kids take all of the vaccinations except MMR, then when it was time for pre-school they went ahead and got the MMR. We just wanted to give them a few more years of development.

Fat Elvis
02-03-2015, 09:12 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/daily-cartoon-150202-measles-690.jpg

BigRedChief
02-03-2015, 10:58 PM
The belief at the time was that it was thimerosal additive they used in the MMR shot. There was no scientific study that was proving anything, but my friend's story combined with internet speculation freaked me out.Absolutely no evidence, ever, not even a hint of scientific evidence that the MMR caused autism.

Some of you may know Roald Dahl. He's the children's book author that wrote Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Matilda etc. His daughter died from measles in 1962. Here's what he wrote to help publicize the need for parents to vaccinate their kids.

Here, in part, is what he wrote:Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything.
“Are you feeling all right?” I asked her.
“I feel all sleepy,” she said.
In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.
The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.
On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.”
The article is here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/02/the-saddest-story-roald-dahl-ever-wrote-about-his-daughters-death-from-measles-and-is-worth-reading-today/

wazu
02-03-2015, 11:23 PM
Absolutely no evidence, ever, not even a hint of scientific evidence that the MMR caused autism.

Did you read what I wrote? I had first hand "evidence". I actually don't think that's what caused it. I believe based on other studies I've seen that the explosion in autism is more likely to be correlated to people having kids later in life. But hearing a bunch of stories about kids who go into a shell a day or two after getting a shot, and then never come out of it. That's doesn't equate to "not even a hint" of evidence.

BIG_DADDY
02-04-2015, 03:29 PM
I was able to find the source of Big_Daddy's ridiculous article. The claims in the article came from the Weston A. Price foundation, which is led by a couple of people who are neither scientists nor physicians. They specialize in recommending Vegan diets and they tell people that they should drink un-Pasteurized milk. They have a pretty bad reputation for quackery.

The actual article can be found here (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html).

A little info about the foundation can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation).

And all the well documented sources for all the information in question are provided at the bottom. Clear example of attacking the person instead of the information. There is a lot of that in here.

For the record nobody is dying of measles in this country. On the other hand there are lots of people who die from vaccines.

For the record for the umpteenth time I am not against vaccines, I am against the mandatory schedule. Is it up to 50 doses by age 6 yet? Nobody has even acknowledged once throughout this whole thread that that is my position. It must be more amusing to continue to lie about it.

What is funny is not one person has yet to say they are personally on schedule even though I asked.

Not one person other than the one pissed off that I even brought it up has commented on VAERS or their data. Kind of a big deal.

Not one person has addresses the correlation between our infant mortality rates and other countries who do not have our vaccine schedule.

Not one person has addressed all of the toxic material you are injecting in this massive schedule or how this could possibly be good for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients

No it's always the same ol I'm smart > you're dumb walk through the tard garden ChiefsPlanet has become.

ptlyon
02-04-2015, 03:32 PM
I'm not so scared about catching the measles, but am deathly afraid of catching rutabaga.

DaFace
02-04-2015, 03:39 PM
And all the well documented sources for all the information in question are provided at the bottom. Clear example of attacking the person instead of the information. There is a lot of that in here.

For the record nobody is dying of measles in this country. On the other hand there are lots of people who die from vaccines.

For the record for the umpteenth time I am not against vaccines, I am against the mandatory schedule. Is it up to 50 doses by age 6 yet? Nobody has even acknowledged once throughout this whole thread that that is my position. It must be more amusing to continue to lie about it.

What is funny is not one person has yet to say they are personally on schedule even though I asked.

Not one person other than the one pissed off that I even brought it up has commented on VAERS or their data. Kind of a big deal.

Not one person has addresses the correlation between our infant mortality rates and other countries who do not have our vaccine schedule.

Not one person has addressed all of the toxic material you are injecting in this massive schedule or how this could possibly be good for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients

No it's always the same ol I'm smart > you're dumb walk through the tard garden ChiefsPlanet has become.

The problem is that this really is a case where you are dumb and everyone else is smart. There's really no debating this.

KC native
02-04-2015, 03:41 PM
And all the well documented sources for all the information in question are provided at the bottom. Clear example of attacking the person instead of the information. There is a lot of that in here.

For the record nobody is dying of measles in this country. On the other hand there are lots of people who die from vaccines.

For the record for the umpteenth time I am not against vaccines, I am against the mandatory schedule. Is it up to 50 doses by age 6 yet? Nobody has even acknowledged once throughout this whole thread that that is my position. It must be more amusing to continue to lie about it.

What is funny is not one person has yet to say they are personally on schedule even though I asked.

Not one person other than the one pissed off that I even brought it up has commented on VAERS or their data. Kind of a big deal.

Not one person has addresses the correlation between our infant mortality rates and other countries who do not have our vaccine schedule.

Not one person has addressed all of the toxic material you are injecting in this massive schedule or how this could possibly be good for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients

No it's always the same ol I'm smart > you're dumb walk through the tard garden ChiefsPlanet has become.

My child and I are on schedule with vaccinations.

It's also fucking hilarious to watch you continue to trot out things that have been debunked repeatedly or things that don't matter (spurrious correlation FTW!).

You are the fucking moron. You are a selfish cocksucker that thinks you are smarter than everyone else (even the people who do this for a living) because you "see" the conspiracy for what it is. And yes, almost everyone here is smarter than you because they understand how vaccines and their statistics work.

Carry on with being a selfish cocksucker though. It's what you're known best for.

Silock
02-04-2015, 03:53 PM
For the record nobody is dying of measles in this country.

No one is dying of measles right now. Because it was eradicated. Continuing the present course of non-vaccination will surely see that number climb.

Not one person other than the one pissed off that I even brought it up has commented on VAERS or their data. Kind of a big deal.

VEARS isn't meant to explain causation. I could go get an MMR shot today and fall off of my roof and it would be entered into VEARS. VEARS is simply something to show trends, but it does not imply causation.

Not one person has addresses the correlation between our infant mortality rates and other countries who do not have our vaccine schedule.

There's a lot that goes into infant mortality, especially in a country with a significant number of people without health insurance. Again, this isn't a causation/indictment on vaccines.

Not one person has addressed all of the toxic material you are injecting in this massive schedule or how this could possibly be good for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients.

You have to prove that it's bad, not the other way around. Just because you think that something can't be good for you doesn't make it true. I mean, potatoes have cyanide, but you still eat them, right?

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2015, 03:57 PM
I won't vaccinate my children because I don't want them to have Autism.

It's highly unlikely they would.

Fish
02-04-2015, 04:15 PM
And all the well documented sources for all the information in question are provided at the bottom. Clear example of attacking the person instead of the information. There is a lot of that in here.

For the record nobody is dying of measles in this country. On the other hand there are lots of people who die from vaccines.

For the record for the umpteenth time I am not against vaccines, I am against the mandatory schedule. Is it up to 50 doses by age 6 yet? Nobody has even acknowledged once throughout this whole thread that that is my position. It must be more amusing to continue to lie about it.

What is funny is not one person has yet to say they are personally on schedule even though I asked.

Not one person other than the one pissed off that I even brought it up has commented on VAERS or their data. Kind of a big deal.

Not one person has addresses the correlation between our infant mortality rates and other countries who do not have our vaccine schedule.

Not one person has addressed all of the toxic material you are injecting in this massive schedule or how this could possibly be good for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients

No it's always the same ol I'm smart > you're dumb walk through the tard garden ChiefsPlanet has become.

If you look a little deeper, the sources are taken completely out of context. A glaring red flag clue should have been when they make a very broad blanket statement like this:

Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Notice the string of references? They're saying that single blanket statement sentence is a direct reference from all 10 of those referenced works. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? Seriously, does that not jump out and say "Potential horseshit"? That's not how scientific referencing of sources works at all.

And claims like this:

"Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk," explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist.

Why would you take the word of a documentary filmmaker and activist over the word of the entire medical community?

And this:

"Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations," says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation.

Good grief. This is the president of the Weston Price Foundation here saying this complete nonsense. How can you read that and think this person knows what they're talking about?

Also, nobody has been dying of measles lately because of our vaccination programs. That's why nobody has been dying. I've provided references earlier that show what happens when vaccine number plummet for some reason. Disease comes roaring back.

Saying you're for vaccines but only against a mandatory schedule is a copout too. If you're not against the vaccine then why would you be against the schedule of the vaccine? That doesn't make any sense unless you're trying to show that the vaccine has different results depending on the administration schedule. The schedule is a critical part of the entire vaccination process. You'd have to provide some kind of reasoning for why it's OK on your own schedule but not on the doctor's recommended schedule. Why is that? Seems like you're just refusing to let go of that last little bit of resistance.

Here's the thing about VAERS data that seems to be overlooked all to often. This is the warning presented to users of the VAERS database:

"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event."

Anyone can go to the VAERS database right now, and claim that vaccines gave them AIDSEbolapox. And that entry counts in the database and is never verified for authenticity. That's why it's not a big deal at all.

Regarding the infant mortality rate in the US. What exactly are you trying to show with that? Are you really trying to say that those other countries don't have vaccination programs. Because that's wrong.

Regarding the list of scary toxins in vaccines... If that list scares you then it's because you have a misunderstanding of chemistry.

BIG_DADDY
02-04-2015, 04:16 PM
No one is dying of measles right now. Because it was eradicated. Continuing the present course of non-vaccination will surely see that number climb.



VEARS isn't meant to explain causation. I could go get an MMR shot today and fall off of my roof and it would be entered into VEARS. VEARS is simply something to show trends, but it does not imply causation.



There's a lot that goes into infant mortality, especially in a country with a significant number of people without health insurance. Again, this isn't a causation/indictment on vaccines.



You have to prove that it's bad, not the other way around. Just because you think that something can't be good for you doesn't make it true. I mean, potatoes have cyanide, but you still eat them, right?

VAERS doesn't imply causation because the entire vaccination court was set to be no-fault to protect the pharmaceutical companies. Certainly you know that. It goes way beyond those numbers though. The number of people suffering from auto-immunity disorders, digestive disorders, neurological problems and chronic illness from their vaccines are the mountain compared to the mole hill that is VAERS reporting. The fact that they try to minimize those numbers and discredit what is there is preposterous.

The trends between high vaccination countries and infant mortality are as obvious as are the trends between all the above named disorders and the increase in our vaccine schedule.

BIG_DADDY
02-04-2015, 04:21 PM
Regarding the list of scary toxins in vaccines... If that list scares you then it's because you have a misunderstanding of chemistry.

Explain to me how the adjuvant toxic aluminum is good for me Mr. Chemistry.

Explain to me how injecting thimersal into me is good for me while you are at it.

There is a laundry list of substances but lets just use those two to start. I also have a meeting in 10 minutes and can't be back until tomorrow.

BIG_DADDY
02-04-2015, 04:24 PM
Why would you take the word of a documentary filmmaker and activist over the word of the entire medical community?

.

One more thing, it's not even close to the entire medical community. NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE. I can't believe you would say that.

Fish
02-04-2015, 04:24 PM
The number of people suffering from auto-immunity disorders, digestive disorders, neurological problems and chronic illness from their vaccines are the mountain compared to the mole hill that is VAERS reporting.

Doesn't it bother you that you cannot find this conclusion in any actual scientific study from anywhere in the world? Why isn't there a single peer-reviewed source supporting this?

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2015, 04:26 PM
Explain to me how the adjuvant toxic aluminum is good for me Mr. Chemistry.

Explain to me how injecting thimersal into me is good for me while you are at it.

There is a laundry list of substances but lets just use those two to start. I also have a meeting in 10 minutes and can't be back until tomorrow.

Explain to me how putting the poisonous substance fluoride on my teeth is good for me.

By the way, Thimersal is no longer used in vaccinations, despite the fact that there was no link between adverse side effects and usage.

Fish
02-04-2015, 04:35 PM
Explain to me how the adjuvant toxic aluminum is good for me Mr. Chemistry.

Explain to me how injecting thimersal into me is good for me while you are at it.

There is a laundry list of substances but lets just use those two to start. I also have a meeting in 10 minutes and can't be back until tomorrow.

OK...

Aluminum hydroxide: Used in antacids, constipation meds, and to control phosphate levels for people with kidney issues. In vaccines it stimulates the immune system by causing the body to make uric acid. It helps the immune system kick into gear.

Aluminum phosphate: Same use as hydroxide.

Aluminum potassium sulfate: Potash. Used in medicine to reduce bleeding. Hemorrhoid medication. Used as deodorant. Also used as an additive in baking(LOL) to provide leavening.

The point is that we could do this for any of these scary chemicals....

Fish
02-04-2015, 04:39 PM
One more thing, it's not even close to the entire medical community. NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE. I can't believe you would say that.

It's true. They've kicked out the kooks like Wakefield, who can no longer practice medicine any more. If there were actually any in the active medical community supporting the idea of a vaccine-autism link, you would have posted their names by now.

Silock
02-04-2015, 06:50 PM
VAERS doesn't imply causation because the entire vaccination court was set to be no-fault to protect the pharmaceutical companies.

No, it doesn't prove causation because it just doesn't. The information going in isn't screened or refined enough.


disorders, neurological problems and chronic illness from their vaccines are the mountain compared to the mole hill that is VAERS reporting. The fact that they try to minimize those numbers and discredit what is there is preposterous.

There is no proof that it's FROM VACCINES.

The trends between high vaccination countries and infant mortality are as obvious as are the trends between all the above named disorders and the increase in our vaccine schedule.

Trends do not prove causation.

|Zach|
02-04-2015, 07:37 PM
Can we put this in the hall of classics?

mr. tegu
02-04-2015, 07:46 PM
Explain to me how the adjuvant toxic aluminum is good for me Mr. Chemistry.

Explain to me how injecting thimersal into me is good for me while you are at it.

There is a laundry list of substances but lets just use those two to start. I also have a meeting in 10 minutes and can't be back until tomorrow.

He posted all that information in a respectable manner and you could only manage to respond to the very last sentence. Why is that?

Don Corlemahomes
02-04-2015, 07:57 PM
HEEEERE'S SALLY!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KE2H_HI26rE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

She has a degree in English, and she touts the [unfounded] benefits of unpasteurized milk and dairy.

This sea hag is challenging the entire medical community comprised of PhDs (in immunology, toxicology, pharmacology, epidemiology), MDs, PharmDs, nutritionists, etc.

BigRedChief
02-04-2015, 08:30 PM
Can we put this in the hall of classics?Already has its ticket punched when the thread runs its course.

BigRedChief
02-04-2015, 08:43 PM
I have a friend who experienced exact same thing with his daughter. This was in 2003, and neither he nor I had heard of this connection when he found out she was autistic. He described that his daughter got the shot, and didn't feel good for a couple of days so they thought she was just acting different due to an illness. But she never snapped out of it. Before that she had been waving and saying "Bye Daddy" and "Hi Daddy" and such, but after the shot she went silent.It's a tragedy what happened to your friends daughter. But seeing something visually doesn't mean its the cause for what follows.

You see someone smoke a cigarette, they leave and get in a car accident or have a stroke. You know the chemicals they put in cigarettes? That has to be the cause.

It's been 40+ years. Tons of scientific studies have been done proving vaccines are safe. Not a single peer reviewed vaccine study has shown that vaccines are unsafe, not a single one.

Fat Elvis
02-04-2015, 09:56 PM
Vaccinations were created by science, and science doesn't cause autism; science causes people to kill themselves. (http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1597)

Don Corlemahomes
02-04-2015, 10:09 PM
Guys, I really think we should stop educating our kids. Sure, education allows kids to read, write, reason, and problem solve, effectively molding them into free-thinking individuals.

But some kids really **** up their lives after going to school, despite being perfect little angels up to 5 years of age. Mental health issues are much more prevalent than they used to be, and I'm extremely concerned that our schools are causing these kids to lose their sanity (never mind the increased awareness and diagnostic sensitivity). I should have the right to keep my kids at home while allowing them to reason like a 5 year old despite getting older. Who's with me?

HonestChieffan
02-04-2015, 10:11 PM
Yes, for ****ing public school.

I couldn't believe they even did them.

I remember one of my friends had to leave the Raytown school district when we were growing up because they were Christian Scientists (so they didn't believe in modern medicine or some shit like that) and said they couldn't vaccinate. The school district told them to GTFO.

More of your strange recall of growing up in the streets of Raytown....The school could not have done that.

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements/missouri.aspx

Chiefnj2
02-05-2015, 08:29 AM
As of 2009 the US had 36 vaccinations on its schedule for children under 5, yet countries like Sweden, Japan and Iceland only had 11. Spain, France, UK all had under 20. Why is the US so vaccine "happy"?

Mortality rates for children under 5 - US rate almost doubled those of Sweden/Japan/Iceland and even Singapore.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 08:37 AM
As of 2009 the US had 36 vaccinations on its schedule for children under 5, yet countries like Sweden, Japan and Iceland only had 11. Spain, France, UK all had under 20. Why is the US so vaccine "happy"?

Mortality rates for children under 5 - US rate almost doubled those of Sweden/Japan/Iceland and even Singapore.

People eat more ice cream during the summer months, when the number of drownings increase significantly.

Let's get rid of the scourge of ice cream, assuming that it is the causal agent.

Chiefnj2
02-05-2015, 08:47 AM
People eat more ice cream during the summer months, when the number of drownings increase significantly.

Let's get rid of the scourge of ice cream, assuming that it is the causal agent.

Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed. Plus, it's not even witty, insulting or otherwise entertaining. You can do better. Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to other first world countries?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:11 AM
Your initial post posits it as a bad thing by using a suggestive final sentence, but you've provided no proof that A causes B.

"Why is the US so fluoridation crazy? The infant mortality of the US is twice as high as other countries without fluoridation."

If you imply a cause, you need to provide proof.

jspchief
02-05-2015, 09:13 AM
Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed. Plus, it's not even witty, insulting or otherwise entertaining. You can do better. Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to other first world countries?
To make our kids safer.

Now explain the causation between those additional vaccines and the higher mortality rate.

Eleazar
02-05-2015, 09:22 AM
Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed. Plus, it's not even witty, insulting or otherwise entertaining. You can do better. Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to other first world countries?

Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to third world countries?

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 09:22 AM
It's a good thing i had my measles vaccine, i then contracted measles. But..but..but..it prevents measles!

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:28 AM
It's a good thing i had my measles vaccine, i then contracted measles. But..but..but..it prevents measles!

I'm sure you don't put your kids in car seats either, because there's a chance that they could get in a wreck in car seats that still kills them.

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 09:32 AM
I'm sure you don't put your kids in car seats either, because there's a chance that they could get in a wreck in car seats that still kills them.

swing and a miss. I was always told how these vaccines protect us, where is your god now?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:37 AM
FWIW, kids in this country receive most of their "extra" doses via vaccination for Hep A, Hep B, and rotavirus. Only about 84% of four year olds are up-to-date on the vaccine schedule they should have had by 35 months, and the vaccine rate of most individual vaccines holds around 90%.

Of course, the other countries you mention all provide universal health care for their children, and poverty is also closely associated with infant mortality due to effects both during pregnancy and in early childhood.

Chiefnj2
02-05-2015, 09:37 AM
Your initial post posits it as a bad thing by using a suggestive final sentence, but you've provided no proof that A causes B.

"Why is the US so fluoridation crazy? The infant mortality of the US is twice as high as other countries without fluoridation."

If you imply a cause, you need to provide proof.

I didn't imply a cause, I was asking a question about vaccination rates among developed countries. If the US schedule is so great and some gold standard, why isn't the rest of the world following us? Don't they care about their children?

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 09:38 AM
Next up: someone can explain why those that get the flu shot always have the flu the worst of anyone you know. They always tell you how they had their flu shot in october and then how miserable they are upon contracting the flu.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:38 AM
swing and a miss. I was always told how these vaccines protect us, where is your god now?

Yeah, vaccines don't protect us, which is why 300 million people died of smallpox in the 20th century alone. When was the last smallpox death, bro?

Who is the youngest person you know with polio?

unlurking
02-05-2015, 09:41 AM
Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed. Plus, it's not even witty, insulting or otherwise entertaining. You can do better. Why does the US have such a high rate of recommended vaccinations compared to other first world countries?
I thought it quite wittily pointed out the flaw in your question.

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 09:44 AM
Yeah, vaccines don't protect us, which is why 300 million people died of smallpox in the 20th century alone. When was the last smallpox death, bro?

Who is the youngest person you know with polio?

Didn't protect me from measles, fact.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:49 AM
I didn't imply a cause, I was asking a question about vaccination rates among developed countries. If the US schedule is so great and some gold standard, why isn't the rest of the world following us? Don't they care about their children?

Well, Hep B is far less prevalent outside of defined high-risk groups in those countries. The biggest risk for Hep A in the United States is actually leaving the country.

A lot of countries don't follow the same schedule because it's considered more expensive to use extra syringes, dispose of them and schedule the additional medical visits.

If an aggressive vaccine schedule was a culprit, the recent change towards more aggressive DTaP and TDAP vaccination in this country would not have led to fewer incidences with no adverse effects.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 09:55 AM
Next up: someone can explain why those that get the flu shot always have the flu the worst of anyone you know. They always tell you how they had their flu shot in october and then how miserable they are upon contracting the flu.

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. The flu vaccine is the best estimate on what strain of flu will predominate based upon which subtype is prevalent in Asia a few months before. Given the rate of viral multiplication and the number of discrete carriers, this scary thing called evolution happens. As the virus evolves, its protein and RNA structure changes from the original target, thus meaning it wont stimulate the same immune response as the original strain.

Yet, in spite of all this, individuals who receive flu shots contract the flu less often and have lesser morbidity should they become infected.

Ironically, by mentioning the flu vaccine, you're actually undermining your original position, as the flu illustrates how vaccines lose efficacy without herd immunity, as the viruses are given time to evolve, rendering the initial vaccines less effective, which is why we need a universal vaccination program.

Were illnesses determined solely by karma, only you and your fellow kooks would wake up with orchitis, and responsible adults could laugh at your swollen balls, but the world is rarely fair.

Eleazar
02-05-2015, 09:57 AM
Well, Hep B is far less prevalent outside of defined high-risk groups in those countries. The biggest risk for Hep A in the United States is actually leaving the country.

A lot of countries don't follow the same schedule because it's considered more expensive to use extra syringes, dispose of them and schedule the additional medical visits.

If an aggressive vaccine schedule was a culprit, the recent change towards more aggressive DTaP and TDAP vaccination in this country would not have led to fewer incidences with no adverse effects.


In the EU, it's more common to immunize for tuberculosis, but this is not a major concern in the United States. MENC is another one that they recommend in Europe, and we don't generally do here. In the UK sometimes they do HIB 4 times instead of 3 times. Sometimes HIB is included in another vaccine. HPV is becoming nearly universal in Europe, but it's not yet widely done in childhood in the US. In the US we do rotavirus, but in the EU they don't.

There are many more differences than what someone reads in a tweet, like "why does the US have so many scheduled vaccinations when Sweden doesn't".

Thinking is a helpful skill when evaluating conspiracy theories.

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:00 AM
That's because you don't know what you're talking about. The flu vaccine is the best estimate on what strain of flu will predominate based upon which subtype is prevalent in Asia a few months before. Given the rate of viral multiplication and the number of discrete carriers, this scary thing called evolution happens. As the virus evolves, its protein and RNA structure changes from the original target, thus meaning it wont stimulate the same immune response as the original strain.

Yet, in spite of all this, individuals who receive flu shots contract the flu less often and have lesser morbidity should they become infected.

Ironically, by mentioning the flu vaccine, you're actually undermining your original position, as the flu illustrates how vaccines lose efficacy without herd immunity, as the viruses are given time to evolve, rendering the initial vaccines less effective, which is why we need a universal vaccination program.

Were illnesses determined solely by karma, only you and your fellow kooks would wake up with orchitis, and responsible adults could laugh at your swollen balls, but the world is rarely fair.

Conjecture noted, thanks for playing.

Sully
02-05-2015, 10:01 AM
Next up: someone can explain why those that get the flu shot always have the flu the worst of anyone you know. They always tell you how they had their flu shot in october and then how miserable they are upon contracting the flu.

Always.

Always.

Sully
02-05-2015, 10:02 AM
Didn't protect me from measles, fact.

I say you and I, together, go find all these people claiming vaccines are 100% effective, and out them as liars. let's do it!

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:06 AM
I say you and I, together, go find all these people claiming vaccines are 100% effective, and out them as liars. let's do it!

I don't need to, if someone doesn't want to be informed then it's their choice. I'm A Libertarian after all and believe you can make whatever choice you are comfortable with. I don't need to cram my beliefs down others throats. ;)

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2015, 10:07 AM
I don't need to, if someone doesn't want to be informed then it's their choice. I'm A Libertarian after all and believe you can make whatever choice you are comfortable with. I don't need to cram my beliefs down others throats. ;)

No, you just end up cramming your measles down people's throats because you're a fucking Luddite.

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:08 AM
No, you just end up cramming your measles down people's throats because you're a ****ing Luddite.

I think u have that bass ackwards man, i got your vaccine from your gods and still got the measles..i ask again...where is your god now?

Sully
02-05-2015, 10:09 AM
I don't need to, if someone doesn't want to be informed then it's their choice. I'm A Libertarian after all and believe you can make whatever choice you are comfortable with. I don't need to cram my beliefs down others throats. ;)

I know. but there are these charlatans that you've obviously heard going around saying vaccines are 100% effective. You're doing a great job of disproving them here, what with people getting flu shots and ALWAYS having the worst flu, and you getting measles. I say we do our part and burn these liars down. Part of being a part of the free market is having good information. let's do our part!

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:11 AM
I know. but there are these charlatans that you've obviously heard going around saying vaccines are 100% effective. You're doing a great job of disproving them here, what with people getting flu shots and ALWAYS having the worst flu, and you getting measles. I say we do our part and burn these liars down. Part of being a part of the free market is having good information. let's do our part!

Thanks for protecting me bro, i got the vaccine and the measles. What a bargain!

I never have had a flu shot and rarely ever get the flu...hmmmmm

BigRedChief
02-05-2015, 10:11 AM
I don't need to, if someone doesn't want to be informed then it's their choice. I'm A Libertarian after all and believe you can make whatever choice you are comfortable with. I don't need to cram my beliefs down others throats. ;)A bunch of BS.ROFL
Society doesn't work that way. You may feel "comfortable" getting behind the wheel of your car and driving drunk. The rest of us are not "comfortable" with your decision because it endangers us.

I could go on and on with examples that your "Libertarian" BS only works on paper, not the real world.

Individual liberty that endangers others especially others that are unaware of the danger that are being put in by your "comfortable" decisions is just not acceptable.

Sully
02-05-2015, 10:13 AM
Thanks for protecting me bro, i got the vaccine and the measles. What a bargain!

I'm not the one that told you it was 100%. I'm asking you to help me find that dastardly villain, and out him for the dishonest scoundrel he is.

This isn't just about people being uninformed. This is about some rapscallion purposely spreading false information. Let's get 'im!!!

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:13 AM
A bunch of BS.ROFL
Society doesn't work that way. You may feel "comfortable" getting behind the wheel of your car and driving drunk. The rest of us are not "comfortable" with your decision because it endangers us.

I could go on and on with examples that your "Libertarian" BS only works on paper, not the real world.

Individual liberty that endangers others especially others that are unaware of the danger that are being put in by your "comfortable" decisions is just not acceptable.

Yes because driving drunk is a libertarian position, GTFO!

Imon Yourside
02-05-2015, 10:14 AM
I'm not the one that told you it was 100%. I'm asking you to help me find that dastardly villain, and out him for the dishonest scoundrel he is.

This isn't just about people being uninformed. This is about some rapscallion purposely spreading false information. Let's get 'im!!!

Well then maybe the doctors should inform their patients of the risks rather than just pretending they are mandatory.

Sully
02-05-2015, 10:17 AM
Well then maybe the doctors should inform their patients of the risks rather than just pretending they are mandatory.

I agree. But first we have to find that miscreant that is selling vaccines as 100% effective. he's ruining lives!!!
How many babies are you going to let him turn autistic before you help me!??! You hold the key!!!