The Franchise Tag: Ability to "steal" players?

[Dante84]

I still follow Nick Wright, former 610 Sports talking head who has now moved to the Houston market.

He just posted the following series of tweets, advocating that the Texans (or any team, really) "steal" Dez Bryant from the Cowboys, should he get the franchise tag. He indicates the cost is 2-First Round picks:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>If the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cowboys?src=hash">#Cowboys</a> end up franchising Dez Bryant, I'd seriously consider forking over the 2 1st round picks it would take to steal him away...</p>&mdash; nick wright (@getnickwright) <a href="https://twitter.com/getnickwright/status/567865803267117057">February 18, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>... Especially if I'm a team like the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Patriots?src=hash">#Patriots</a> drafting at the tail end of the 1st round anyways.</p>&mdash; nick wright (@getnickwright) <a href="https://twitter.com/getnickwright/status/567865976034701312">February 18, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>... As long as I'm drafting mid-1st round or later, and if I think I'll be good next year, I'd definitely consider stealing Dez for 2 1sts.</p>&mdash; nick wright (@getnickwright) <a href="https://twitter.com/getnickwright/status/567866174622404610">February 18, 2015</a></blockquote>
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My questions to you all:

- Is this a thing that has been done?
- What's the policy?
- Are we in danger of losing Houston should he receive the tag?
- Would you pull the trigger on Dez, or another player, for 2-firsts?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

You have to pay the guy AND surrender the 2 1st rounders, which is why it never happens.

[Bowser]

Just use the exclusive rights franchise tag.

[In58men]

Just use the exclusive rights franchise tag.

/thread

[In58men]

You have to pay the guy AND surrender the 2 1st rounders, which is why it never happens.

Also


/thread

[Discuss Thrower]

Thing I wonder is the wiki article says the Cowboys, in this situation are "entitled" to two 1sts. Not guaranteed, but entitled.

.. Doesn't that allow a team like Dallas flexibility in preventing a guy like Dez from going to a rival by tagging him but allowing a team like Houston to acquire him for less than two firsts?

Hypothetically, of course.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Thing I wonder is the wiki article says the Cowboys, in this situation are "entitled" to two 1sts. Not guaranteed, but entitled.

.. Doesn't that allow a team like Dallas flexibility in preventing a guy like Dez from going to a rival by tagging him but allowing a team like Houston to acquire him for less than two firsts?

Hypothetically, of course.

Sure. But, they're guaranteed the 2 1sts if a team swoops in and signs him.

[Hammock Parties]

If we've learned anything, it's that overpaying for a WR when you don't have a QB is not a good idea.

[Discuss Thrower]

If we've learned anything, it's that overpaying for a WR when you don't have a QB is not a good idea.

Houston does mirror KC a lot of ways..

[The Franchise]

You have to pay the guy AND surrender the 2 1st rounders, which is why it never happens.

Except you'd also be eliminating those 2 1st round fully guaranteed contracts.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Except you'd also be eliminating those 2 1st round fully guaranteed contracts.

That's a good point.

[Deberg_1990]

Wright is right. Bryant is absolutely worth giving up 2 First rounders for a team drafting in the back half. He's only 26.

[O.city]

Wouldn't trade first rounders for any position that isn't a qb ever

[Bugeater]

Watch New England snatch him...

[Deberg_1990]

Wouldn't trade first rounders for any position that isn't a qb ever

Not even a young proven commodity over two potential unknowns?

[The Franchise]

For a team like Houston? No.

For a team like New England....sure....but they'll never do it.

[Brock]

Seems like the chiefs got chester mcglockton by making him an ofer and oakland declined to match it. I don't remember what they had to give.

[Dante84]

Okay, lets say a team DID pull the trigger - they pay 2 firsts, and then pay the guy....

...for the one, franchise-year deal? And then he's a FA again?

[Bugeater]

For a team like Houston? No.

For a team like New England....sure....but they'll never do it.
Why wouldn't they when they have a HOFer in the twilight of his career and a gamebreaker like Dez is on the table? Hell Hoodie is probably going to follow Brady out the door anyway.

[The Franchise]

Okay, lets say a team DID pull the trigger - they pay 2 firsts, and then pay the guy....

...for the one, franchise-year deal? And then he's a FA again?

Because they would be ready to give him a new deal before the season.

[The Franchise]

Why wouldn't they when they have a HOFer in the twilight of his career and a gamebreaker like Dez is on the table? Hell Hoodie is probably going to follow Brady out the door anyway.

Can't see Bryant co-existing with Bryant. He did with Moss but I think Bryant is different.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Okay, lets say a team DID pull the trigger - they pay 2 firsts, and then pay the guy....

...for the one, franchise-year deal? And then he's a FA again?

No. You have to negotiate the long term deal. then you give up the picks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It makes me sick even typing this, but if I'm Indy I do it in a heartbeat.

[Bugeater]

Can't see Bryant co-existing with Bryant. He did with Moss but I think Bryant is different.
He can't get along with himself? :)

Obviously you meant Brady, and I suppose the character issues don't fit with the Patriot Way. Which is good because I'd probably swear off football if it happened.

[Bugeater]

It makes me sick even typing this, but if I'm Indy I do it in a heartbeat.
That would make me swear off football too. :#

[O.city]

It makes me sick even typing this, but if I'm Indy I do it in a heartbeat.

Would be tough considering they're gonna have to pay luck soon though.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Exclusive rights tag. They will use it.

[ChiefsCountry]

Seems like the chiefs got chester mcglockton by making him an ofer and oakland declined to match it. I don't remember what they had to give.

McGlockton was a step below the franchise tag. We had to give up a second round pick if I remember right.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Would be tough considering they're gonna have to pay luck soon though.

It's not like they'd be the first team to pay two superstars.

Christ, we had one of the worst passing offenses in the league and have the 10th highest paid QB and 4th highest paid WR.

They don't have a single player making more than $9M a season, and their four highest paid players are locked up until 2017, 2018 and 2019.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And they have nearly $40M in cap space and Cory Redding is their only quality FA this season. They have a lot of guys locked up for the long term.

[O.city]

It's not like they'd be the first team to pay two superstars.

Christ, we had one of the worst passing offenses in the league and have the 10th highest paid QB and 4th highest paid WR.

They don't have a single player making more than $9M a season, and their four highest paid players are locked up until 2017, 2018 and 2019.

Sadly thougj, their qb covers up alot as that gm hasn't been very good.

It would make sense for them though, but they just traded a first rounder for Richardson. They need talent influx one way or another

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Again why would they risk not using the exclusive tag. Jurruh isn't going to risk his stud getting away.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sadly thougj, their qb covers up alot as that gm hasn't been very good.

It would make sense for them though, but they just traded a first rounder for Richardson. They need talent influx one way or another

Grigson has made one bad mistake, and that's the Richardson deal.

Luck
Allen
Fleener
Hilton
Werner
Thornton
Moncrief

He's picked up some talent in three years. Much more in his first two years than Dorsey in his first two years.

[Mojo Jojo]

McGlockton was a step below the franchise tag. We had to give up a second round pick if I remember right.

I believe he was a franchise player and would cost the Chiefs one or two firsts to sign him, but some how Carl and McGlockton convinced the Radiers to redesignate him a restricted free agent the day before the draft so the Chiefs only had to send a second to Oakland.

And I had forgotten he died about four years ago.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Again why would they risk not using the exclusive tag. Jurruh isn't going to risk his stud getting away.

He's not. We know it. Just makes for interesting conversation.

[ChiefsCountry]

I believe he was a franchise player and would cost the Chiefs one or two firsts to sign him, but some how Carl and McGlockton convinced the Radiers to redesignate him a restricted free agent the day before the draft so the Chiefs only had to send a second to Oakland.

And I had forgotten he died about four years ago.

I went back and found a Chiefs yearbook and you were right it was a restricted free agent deal.

The Raiders got a comp pick out of the deal and that player Leon Bender ended up dying.

[TimeForWasp]

Seems like the chiefs got chester mcglockton by making him an ofer and oakland declined to match it. I don't remember what they had to give.

The Poison pill. Not sure really how that works, but it makes it hard for the team to claim the player back.

[O.city]

Grigson has made one bad mistake, and that's the Richardson deal.

Luck
Allen
Fleener
Hilton
Werner
Thornton
Moncrief

He's picked up some talent in three years. Much more in his first two years than Dorsey in his first two years.

Werner hasn't been very good yet and his free agent signings have been mediocre at best. Look at their ol.

He's hit on some good picks sure.

I also belive 4 or your players listed are what they are because of the first one listed, but that's just me.

[Valiant]

Poison clauses i think are forbidden now. But i think you can negotiate for less. Like a 1st and 2nd.

[Kman34]

Jones will never let him leave Dallas... and that's the bottom line on this..

[Chiefnj2]

Indy is a 4 win team without Luck. They need lots of help. They should be figuring out how to get more draft picks.

[Dante84]

Jones will never let him leave Dallas... and that's the bottom line on this..

Agreed. I was just curious about the process as a whole.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Werner hasn't been very good yet and his free agent signings have been mediocre at best. Look at their ol.

He's hit on some good picks sure.

I also belive 4 or your players listed are what they are because of the first one listed, but that's just me.

That's what I was thinking. Without Luck that squad is pure dog crap.

[Reerun_KC]

If we've learned anything, it's that overpaying for a WR when you don't have a QB is not a good idea.
Yet you championed and praised the waste of money for Larry Johnson.

[Sorce]

If I remember correctly the franchising team also gets the opportunity to match the agreed to contract so the team trying to sign the player has to structure the contract in a way that the franchising team can't match. So basically front load the contract so much that it would put the other team over the cap.

[RealSNR]

Werner hasn't been very good yet and his free agent signings have been mediocre at best. Look at their ol.

He's hit on some good picks sure.

I also belive 4 or your players listed are what they are because of the first one listed, but that's just me.

Absolutely.

It's just like the Manning years. Indy will keep on trucking regardless of who's around Luck. That shit show is a one-man team and always will be.

Did I mention fuck the Colts?

[Amnorix]

Poison clauses i think are forbidden now. But i think you can negotiate for less. Like a 1st and 2nd.


Yes, there have been various poison pills used over the years. The NFL then reacts by prohibiting them. Curtis Martin to the Jets, that guard that the Vikings stole from SEattle (was it Hutchinson?), and a couple others over the years.

Heck, Patriots used one to help get Welker. Miami was going to protest, and then the Pats and Dolphins negotiated to sweeten the pot and Miami went away "happy". They didn't really realize what they had though because they only used a transition tag on him.

[Amnorix]

Absolutely.

It's just like the Manning years. Indy will keep on trucking regardless of who's around Luck. That shit show is a one-man team and always will be.

Did I mention fuck the Colts?

Well, that's sort of the problem for them -- they are TOO MUCH of a one man team. Until they can get more talent around LUck, and on defense, they are going to stay "pretty darn good" but keep getting curb stomped by the elite teams.

[Amnorix]

If I remember correctly the franchising team also gets the opportunity to match the agreed to contract so the team trying to sign the player has to structure the contract in a way that the franchising team can't match. So basically front load the contract so much that it would put the other team over the cap.


Yes. And that is NOT a poison pill. That's just making it awkward for the other team to match due to salary cap implications that aren't inherently unfair (unlike Martin to Jets, and that Seattle guard to the Vikings).

[Amnorix]

Right, it was Hutchinson. Seattle also had Walter Jones at the time, so the poison pill was ridiculously targetted at Seattle not matching.

The most famous “poision pill” contracts were used by the Seattle Seahawks and Minnesota Vikings who got into a bit of a struggle over free agents. Minnesota fired the first shot when they signed Seahawks G Steve Hutchinson to a $49 million contract, which contained the stipulation that if Hutchinson was not the highest paid offensive lineman on the team the entire contract would guarantee. Seattle already had a highly compensated lineman (Walter Jones) and thus could not match the offer sheet. Seattle fired back signing Vikings WR Nate Burleson to a similar deal that would guarantee if he played at least five games in the state of Minnesota. Burleson quickly became a Viking.

http://overthecap.com/poison-pills-alex-mack/


Interesting that apparently the Curtis Martin type poison pill is not banned.

Based on some rumors it sounds as if Mack and the Jaguars are going back to an offer sheet made by the New York Jets in 1998 to Patriots’ running back Curtis Martin as a basis for Mack’s offer sheet. The Jets devised a contract where Martin would be paid $4 million guaranteed for the 1998 season, which was a pretty high number in 1998 and near impossible for the Patriots to fit in their cap, but with a twist.

About one month after signing the contract, Martin would have to decide whether or not to exercise a player option that kept in place the remaining five years of the contract. If he did not invoke the option he would become a free agent in 1999 and the team would not have the ability to name him a Franchise or Transition player. If he did exercise the option the remaining years would stay and Martin would be paid an option bonus of over $7 million.

From the Patriots perspective what the contract was trying to accomplish was clear. Because the decision period was so short, it was almost a given that Martin would void the contract and waltz to the Jets in 1999 if they matched the offer. Since he could not be declared a Franchise player the Patriots would get no compensation when that occurred. In addition if Martin did invoke the option the Patriots would have serious maneuvering to do to get their roster cap compliant. They also knew that Martin was going to exercise the option once he was a member of the Jets. In essence, Eugene Parker (Martin’s agent), Bill Parcells, and Jets cap manager Mike Tannenbaum crafted two contracts- one that would apply to New England and one to the Jets- in one offer sheet. New England protested but eventually Martin became a member of the Jets, who he would finish a Hal of Fame career with. This type of “poison pill” is not banned by the NFL, since it treats both teams equally on paper.

[ct]

Joey Galloway, DOH

[BossChief]

I wouldn't trade 1 first for Dez Bryant.

There are 2 situations that aren't being reported where Dez is involved that if either gets out, he will immediately be out of the league.

[Dante84]

I wouldn't trade 1 first for Dez Bryant.

There are 2 situations that aren't being reported where Dez is involved that if either gets out, he will immediately be out of the league.

pray tell?

[BossChief]

The police have been to his house 6 times in the last year.

He is lucky that Jerry has thrown a shitton of resources toward shutting it down and there's a reason JJ is reluctant to sign him to a big deal with big guarantees.

[Dante84]

The police have been to his house 6 times in the last year.

He is lucky that Jerry has thrown a shitton of resources toward shutting it down and there's a reason JJ is reluctant to sign him to a big deal with big guarantees.

And what are the 2 situations that would have him thrown out of the league that no one is reporting?

[BossChief]

And what are the 2 situations that would have him thrown out of the league that no one is reporting?

I don't know enough about the details to make statements, but trust me when I say he wouldn't even be an NFL player if they were being reported by espn.

Both occurances are 20x worse than Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson.

[ct]

I don't know enough about the details to make statements, but trust me when I say he wouldn't even be an NFL player if they were being reported by espn.

Both occurances are 20x worse than Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson.

:BS:

[Kman34]

I don't know enough about the details to make statements, but trust me when I say he wouldn't even be an NFL player if they were being reported by espn.

Both occurances are 20x worse than Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson.

Sex with animals??

[BossChief]

Turn on Colin Cowherd if you don't believe me

He's talking about it

[saphojunkie]

If we've learned anything, it's that overpaying for a WR when you don't have a QB is not a good idea.

Dwayne Bowe is 1/10 the receiver Dez Bryant is.

[The Franchise]

So I'm supposed to believe that after all of the shit that's gone down lately in the NFL......that Jerry Jones is covering up shit for Dez Bryant that would result in him getting booted from the NFL? Because if so......then that means Jerry Jones is risking his career....for a player.

[Ebolapox]

You have to pay the guy AND surrender the 2 1st rounders, which is why it never happens.

anymore.

didn't the cowboys 'steal' joey galloway from the seahawks in the late 90's or early 00's? didn't end well for them if memory serves. the production wasn't worth it at all.

[RealSNR]

Sex with animals??

Eh, that's not so baaaaaaaad

[Ebolapox]

Joey Galloway, DOH

I really should read the thread before responding

[BossChief]

So I'm supposed to believe that after all of the shit that's gone down lately in the NFL......that Jerry Jones is covering up shit for Dez Bryant that would result in him getting booted from the NFL? Because if so......then that means Jerry Jones is risking his career....for a player.

Yes

[Ebolapox]

Yes

uh, this is jerry jones. go google cocaine dallas cowboys. michael irvin/their offensive linemen anyway?

the cowboys have done some serious partying over the years... I believe they called it the white house.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/infamous-cowboys-white-house-still-181700797--nfl.html

[Dante84]

Im unable to listen to the radio/tv.

Did Colin enlighten us as to the details of Dez Bryant's 2(!) incidents that, if reported, would result in his banishment from the league?

Can anyone share said details?

[BossChief]

Everybody on the show corroborated what Colin said and they were present when the league official told them that if there is concrete evidence, he won't ever play football again. No way Jerry let's that happen, though.

Why do you think he has security es court Dez everywhere and is unwilling to give him a big deal?

He sure hasn't had a problem paying players over the years...

[Chiefnj2]

Everybody on the show corroborated what Colin said and they were present when the league official told them that if there is concrete evidence, he won't ever play football again. No way Jerry let's that happen, though.

Why do you think he has security es court Dez everywhere and is unwilling to give him a big deal?

He sure hasn't had a problem paying players over the years...

Who is "everybody on the show"?

I find it hard to believe some of the internet websites wouldn't have run on the story under "there are rumors ...."

He's had a security team for years, nothing new.

[BossChief]

I understand some of you being skeptical.

[Dante84]

I understand some of you being skeptical.

It just seems like a cock tease. Why bring it up if you're not willing to share details?

[Hootie]

I understand some of you being skeptical.
Well no fucking shit...You posted a bunch of bullshit and backed it up with zero actual evidence or allegations

[BossChief]

Well no ****ing shit...You posted a bunch of bullshit and backed it up with zero actual evidence or allegations

I've never posted anything on here that wasn't public knowledge (like this Dez Bryant situation) without it being true.

I don't care what anyone on here wants to believe. I really don't.

I heard the info a couple months ago...posted it here and today Colin Cowherd was running with it.

If I knew more details, I'd post em.

All I do know is that there have been 2 situations he was involved with that would cost him his football career if they got out.

[jLoy88]

A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat.

[Dante84]

Welp, Bosschief was right. He should have provided more details, but he was right:

There's a Rumor of a Dez Bryant Video (http://deadspin.com/theres-a-rumor-about-some-sort-of-dez-bryant-video-1687081592?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

[BossChief]

I don't step on toes when I'm told something. I just pass on what I'm told is ok to pass on.

A lot of the time I don't even know most of the story anyway cause it's still developing.

[BossChief]

So I'm supposed to believe that after all of the shit that's gone down lately in the NFL......that Jerry Jones is covering up shit for Dez Bryant that would result in him getting booted from the NFL? Because if so......then that means Jerry Jones is risking his career....for a player.

Yes

[The Franchise]

Yes

http://rubmint.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/78838_hCAF65331

[BossChief]

No man, it's just that every time I share something on here that isn't even close to being reported, you jump right in with your "sure.." crap and make it seem like I'm making it up.

Every single time.

I couldn't care less about what people on here say. I just like passing on things I've heard over the years and it's always you and a couple other haters that chime in with your crap.

FFS you think you'd learn over the years, but oh well.

It's people like you of why behind the scenes information NEVER gets posted on here anymore when it used to happen quite commonly

[The Franchise]

No man, it's just that every time I share something on here that isn't even close to being reported, you jump right in with your "sure.." crap and make it seem like I'm making it up.

Every single time.

I couldn't care less about what people on here say. I just like passing on things I've heard over the years and it's always you and a couple other haters that chime in with your crap.

FFS you think you'd learn over the years, but oh well.

It's people like you of why behind the scenes information NEVER gets posted on here anymore when it used to happen quite commonly

Yep....just like I give The Bad Guy crap...right? Oh wait....I don't. Because The Bad Guy comes on here and posts it and that's it. You post it....and post it....and post it. And then pat yourself on the back every fucking time it's talked about.

Oh hey guys....remember when I said that?

Yeah guys....remember when I said that first?

[The Franchise]

I wouldn't trade 1 first for Dez Bryant.

There are 2 situations that aren't being reported where Dez is involved that if either gets out, he will immediately be out of the league.

When did you post about it before this post?

[The Franchise]

And that's coming from someone who generally agrees with a good majority of your football takes. The way you divulge "information" is complete bullshit to me though.

[BossChief]

Yep....just like I give The Bad Guy crap...right? Oh wait....I don't. Because The Bad Guy comes on here and posts it and that's it. You post it....and post it....and post it. And then pat yourself on the back every ****ing time it's talked about.

Oh hey guys....remember when I said that?

Yeah guys....remember when I said that first?

Pats myself on the back?

How about reminds the couple of assholes that are always nipping at my ankles about when they tried to make me out to be a liar..that I was telling the truth.

Again.

Seriously...it's that kind of bullshit why a few posters here never post behind the scenes stuff anymore...except in personal messages or on other media between each other.

Good job, btw.

[The Franchise]

Cry me a fucking river.

You and The Bad Guy have zero in common.

[BossChief]

When did you post about it before this post?

In late October or early November.

Search is off or I'd link. I heard about it from a friend and told a few people on here in PMs and then a few days later Colin Cowherd was talking about it on his show and I posted about it.

[Discuss Thrower]

So he went all R. Kelly on a girl -sans watersports but still a sex act with a minor.

That's all I can think of. Had he gone all Ray Rice on a woman something would have transpired by now.

That's my theory. He was dumb enough to film him getting head or something from a chick and didn't check for a birth cert. Thought she was 21 but turns out that skeezer was 16.

[The Franchise]

In October and November.

Search is off or I'd link. I heard about it from a friend and told a few people on here in PMs and then a few days later Colin Cowherd was talking about it on his show and I posted about it.

I don't remember it. If I missed it....then I apologize. I was going off the post in this thread.

[BossChief]

I've wasted enough time on this. Have a good night.