Receiver, Cornerback, Right Tackle... Where Do They Rank For You?

[Easy 6]

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/4/13/8387117/overrated-underrated-and-just-right-kansas-city-chiefs-edition

I find it hard to argue with any of this, what about you?

[The Franchise]

The only way I'm taking a WR in the 1st is if one of the top three are there.

At this point I'm going CB....but I wouldn't be super pissed if they went OT.

[DaneMcCloud]

1. WR
2. CB
3. RT

[AustinChief]

1. WR
2. CB
3. RT

/thread

[ThaVirus]

Are we talking in general or as far as this current Chiefs team needs dictate?

Either way, I think RT is the clear loser here as far as importance goes. I think an argument could be made for either WR or CB to be tops.

Would you rather have Dez Bryant or Richard Sherman?

Calvin Johnson in his prime or Darrelle Revis in his prime?

[Mr. Laz]

while i prefer a WR or CB over a RT, it's still about getting the best player.


If some impact stud falls at another position this i'm pretty ok with that too.


I want a guy that actually changes the other team's game plan

[DaneMcCloud]

IMO, the Chiefs should take Agholor at #18. Apparently, he's rising up many team's boards and again, IMO, he would be the perfect "Plug and Play" WCO receiver. The Chiefs starters would be set with Maclin, Agholor and Wilson. With as many picks as they'll have, I'm sure they're grab another on Day Three.

CB, IMO, isn't as pressing. If they go CB in the first round, they're clearly not expecting to re-sign Sean Smith but IMO, WR is far more pressing because they do have Sean Smith in 2015. Everything can't be about "next year".

Right tackle to me is a Day Three position. The Chiefs currently have at least three guys signed in Stephenson, Sherrod and Allen and as such, it doesn't make much sense to choose a right tackle in the first or second.

But in all honesty, I don't care what they do after choosing a WR in the first. By the second round, it'll likely be BPA anyway and with so many holes to fill, that player will have a chance to start immediately in 2015.

[Mr. Laz]

IMO, the Chiefs should take Agholor at #18. Apparently, he's rising up many team's boards and again, IMO, he would be the perfect "Plug and Play" WCO receiver. The Chiefs starters would be set with Maclin, Agholor and Wilson. With as many picks as they'll have, I'm sure they're grab another on Day Three.

CB, IMO, isn't as pressing. If they go CB in the first round, they're clearly not expecting to re-sign Sean Smith but IMO, WR is far more pressing because they do have Sean Smith in 2015. Everything can't be about "next year".

Right tackle to me is a Day Three position. The Chiefs currently have at least three guys signed in Stephenson, Sherrod and Allen and as such, it doesn't make much sense to choose a right tackle in the first or second.

But in all honesty, I don't care what they do after choosing a WR in the first. By the second round, it'll likely be BPA anyway and with so many holes to fill, that player will have a chance to start immediately in 2015.
Drafting WR high is not really in Dorsey's DNA.


Just sayin'

[TribalElder]

Tight End

Because Alex smith

[DaneMcCloud]

Drafting WR high is not really in Dorsey's DNA.


Just sayin'

I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can't think of a bigger need in a loaded draft.

[RunKC]

5 reasons why CB is the best position to take round 1.

1. This WR draft is DEEP. There are several #2 caliber WR's scattered throughout the 2nd and even 3rd round.
2. Stephenson, Allen and Sherrod. Surely one of these assholes can play RT effectively.
3. CB is solid in round 1 but falls off a cliff after early round 2.
4. Houston, Poe and Smith will demand and/or get significant money. We can't pay all 3 big money IMO and Smith is the least valuable of the three.
5. CB is one of the most important positions in today's NFL. The value for good CB play is significant.

[The Franchise]

5 reasons why CB is the best position to take round 1.

1. This WR draft is DEEP. There are several #2 caliber WR's scattered throughout the 2nd and even 3rd round.
2. Stephenson, Allen and Sherrod. Surely one of these assholes can play RT effectively.
3. CB is solid in round 1 but falls off a cliff after early round 2.
4. Houston, Poe and Smith will demand and/or get significant money. We can't pay all 3 big money IMO and Smith is the least valuable of the three.
5. CB is one of the most important positions in today's NFL. The value for good CB play is significant.

4 and 5 contradict each other.

[DaneMcCloud]

5 reasons why CB is the best position to take round 1.

1. This WR draft is DEEP. There are several #2 caliber WR's scattered throughout the 2nd and even 3rd round.
2. Stephenson, Allen and Sherrod. Surely one of these assholes can play RT effectively.
3. CB is solid in round 1 but falls off a cliff after early round 2.
4. Houston, Poe and Smith will demand and/or get significant money. We can't pay all 3 big money IMO and Smith is the least valuable of the three.
5. CB is one of the most important positions in today's NFL. The value for good CB play is significant.

The Chiefs didn't have a WR score a TD last year. It's their biggest need, IMO, and if they say "Oh, we can get a guy just as good in the 2nd or 3rd", they're fooling themselves.

Sean Smith is a Chief today. They won't lose him, if at all, until after the season. Drafting a first round CB to sit on the bench for a year is a waste of a draft choice. Get a guy in the third that will sit and prepare next year, not the first.

[staylor26]

4 and 5 contradict each other.

True, but Sean Smith is older, and isn't quite elite like Houston and Poe are. He's very close though.

[RunKC]

4 and 5 contradict each other.

Not if there is a talented player in the draft. You also have to factor in that Sean Smith turns 28 in a couple of months.

I don't think it's worth giving a big time contract to a player turning 29 in 2016. I'd rather just franchise him in 2016 and then let him try to get his big contract elsewhere at age 30.

This is a young man's game and I think that that holds true for CB above all other positions.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Think about this.... When I select breeding gilts to bring back into my genetic base I select the best out of each weekly group.

Now if I need 25 gilts per group and I have 50 to choose from I will get those 25 best.

If I have 100 to choose from then the quality of gilts I retain is much improved.

same thing goes for a draft and if the WR position is deep then and if you can accurately identify the best receivers then you are better off getting that WR with your first pick.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Not if there is a talented player in the draft. You also have to factor in that Sean Smith turns 28 in a couple of months.

I don't think it's worth giving a big time contract to a player turning 29 in 2016. I'd rather just franchise him in 2016 and then let him try to get his big contract elsewhere at age 30.

This is a young man's game and I think that that holds true for CB above all other positions.

YOU'RE GONNA FRANCHISE SEAN SMITH ! :drool:

[el borracho]

If you have a franchise QB? WR, CB, RT
If you have Alex Smith? CB, RT, WR

[TimBone]

YOU'RE GONNA FRANCHISE SEAN SMITH ! :drool:
Next year, why not? If the Chiefs are good enough to make a run next year, and they've got the Houston deal done, I'd have no problem with it. Tag him, keep him for the last year of his twenties, make a run at the playoffs, and then let him go at the end of the year with no future cap ramifications.

Tagging a player doesn't necessarily mean you view him as your franchise player. It's just a way to keep a guy that you don't want to be without for at least that year.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

If you have enough capital to move up and grab one of the better WR's, do it.

If you're going to be the predictable Chiefs, and plop your ass right on down @ 18 while everyone else maneuvers around you, then you should probably take BPA of the three.

Or go fuck yourself. Whichever makes you happy.

[temper11]

Are we talking in general or as far as this current Chiefs team needs dictate?

Either way, I think RT is the clear loser here as far as importance goes. I think an argument could be made for either WR or CB to be tops.

Would you rather have Dez Bryant or Richard Sherman?

Calvin Johnson in his prime or Darrelle Revis in his prime?

In terms of this team, I'm not so sure. The WR is obviously the most fun pick, The CB a little better.... but I think the biggest need for the team right now is still the line.

At WR we replaced Bowe with Maclin. I understand that many here think that is no improvement but an argument can be made that Maclin is just a better type of receiver for Smith. Call it Smith's unwillingness to throw it into tight coverage... whatever... but this is potentially a better fit at this position of need. Then you have Wilson who at the very least appeared to bring a spark that we weren't getting with Jenkins, Hammond, etc. And the steadiness and experience of Avant.... It's not a massive upgrade but a strong argument can be made that there is an upgrade at that position of need.

Not so much at Oline. You lost Hudson and picked up Grubbs. Kinda a wash. I don't know anything about Fianaka but kinda seems like a JAG to me. Got some guys coming off injury that we hope will turn into nice players. But we had much that same hope last year.

I think the line is the biggest question mark still regarding the team. And I'm of the opinion that if you don't have a decent line, you don't have anything.

My general draft philosophy is if you are a completely shit team you draft BPA. If you are a top tier team you draft BPA. If you are right on the cusp of transitioning from a middling team to an upper echelon team, you draft for need if the discrepancy between BPA and top position player of need isn't too great...

Having said that, if you think you can get your needed lineman in the second or third round, and so therefore go for more of a hot commodity first, then I'm fine.

Looking forward to this draft...

[Easy 6]

Next year, why not? If the Chiefs are good enough to make a run next year, and they've got the Houston deal done, I'd have no problem with it. Tag him, keep him for the last year of his twenties, make a run at the playoffs, and then let him go at the end of the year with no future cap ramifications.

Tagging a player doesn't necessarily mean you view him as your franchise player. It's just a way to keep a guy that you don't want to be without for at least that year.

*Nicholson nods knowingly.gif*

You don't find too many corners with his measurables, neither this draft nor the last provides a guy quite like Smith... a taller guy with his ability to turn his hips is rare.

Hang onto him as long as we can.

[Chief Roundup]

The Chiefs didn't have a WR score a TD last year. It's their biggest need, IMO, and if they say "Oh, we can get a guy just as good in the 2nd or 3rd", they're fooling themselves.

Sean Smith is a Chief today. They won't lose him, if at all, until after the season. Drafting a first round CB to sit on the bench for a year is a waste of a draft choice. Get a guy in the third that will sit and prepare next year, not the first.

After the first three WRs the drop off says that you shouldn't draft one until the 2cd or 3rd.

[Saccopoo]

**** that.

Wide receiver first round talent, aside from Cooper (and possibly White, who, as a one year wonder, is still open to criticism and questions), sucks. Guys in the second and beyond, such as Lockett, McBride, Greene, Agholor, etc. are better fits for this system than Devante Parker, Jaleen Strong, DGB, etc.

Offensive tackle? Are you ****ing kidding me? We just spent a first rounder, the first overall pick, on Eric Fisher. With Jeff Allen (second rounder), Don Stephenson (third rounder) and Derek Sherrod (first rounder) they better have a pretty decent option at right tackle. They really need to add one more ****ing guy at this point, at that position, that early in the draft? **** that noise.

Cornerback? Eh...okay. PJ Williams or Eric Rowe fit this system extremely well and both are being considered potential first round picks at this point, though either could possibly be there with the Chiefs second round pick. (More likely, both will be gone, but either fits exceptionally well with Sutton's press man scheme.)

However, if a legitimate freak is still on the board like Bud Dupree, Arik Armstead or even Melvin Gordon (don't think Charles is going to run forever), I'd rather see the freak than shoehorning a "need" position.

[DaneMcCloud]

**** that.

Wide receiver first round talent, aside from Cooper (and possibly White, who, as a one year wonder, is still open to criticism and questions), sucks. Guys in the second and beyond, such as Lockett, McBride, Greene, Agholor, etc. are better fits for this system than Devante Parker, Jaleen Strong, DGB, etc.


However, if a legitimate freak is still on the board like Bud Dupree, Arik Armstead or even Melvin Gordon (don't think Charles is going to run forever), I'd rather see the freak than shoehorning a "need" position.

I do not subscribe to the theory that the Chiefs should wait until the second round to fill their most obvious need.

If they hit on a first round receiver, the Chiefs are set for the next five years.

[kcchiefsus]

**** that.

Wide receiver first round talent, aside from Cooper (and possibly White, who, as a one year wonder, is still open to criticism and questions), sucks. Guys in the second and beyond, such as Lockett, McBride, Greene, Agholor, etc. are better fits for this system than Devante Parker, Jaleen Strong, DGB, etc.

Offensive tackle? Are you ****ing kidding me? We just spent a first rounder, the first overall pick, on Eric Fisher. With Jeff Allen (second rounder), Don Stephenson (third rounder) and Derek Sherrod (first rounder) they better have a pretty decent option at right tackle. They really need to add one more ****ing guy at this point, at that position, that early in the draft? **** that noise.

Cornerback? Eh...okay. PJ Williams or Eric Rowe fit this system extremely well and both are being considered potential first round picks at this point, though either could possibly be there with the Chiefs second round pick. (More likely, both will be gone, but either fits exceptionally well with Sutton's press man scheme.)

However, if a legitimate freak is still on the board like Bud Dupree, Arik Armstead or even Melvin Gordon (don't think Charles is going to run forever), I'd rather see the freak than shoehorning a "need" position.

The problem is that, whether you agree with it or not, wide receivers seem to be rising on most teams draft boards. Guys like Agholor and Perriman are possible first rounders now. The latest we should be waiting for a wide receiver is the 2nd round, and even then we're risking not getting a guy we want.

I'm of the opinion that the Chiefs intended to grab a wide receiver last year but the guys they wanted kept being picked before their turn in the draft. If the Chiefs sit on their asses and ignore wide receiver again then we're going to be left with no good options for the 2nd year in a row.

The rest of the NFL seems to value the WR position quite a bit, perhaps we should join them.

[milkman]

In terms of this team, I'm not so sure. The WR is obviously the most fun pick, The CB a little better.... but I think the biggest need for the team right now is still the line.

At WR we replaced Bowe with Maclin. I understand that many here think that is no improvement but an argument can be made that Maclin is just a better type of receiver for Smith. Call it Smith's unwillingness to throw it into tight coverage... whatever... but this is potentially a better fit at this position of need. Then you have Wilson who at the very least appeared to bring a spark that we weren't getting with Jenkins, Hammond, etc. And the steadiness and experience of Avant.... It's not a massive upgrade but a strong argument can be made that there is an upgrade at that position of need.

Not so much at Oline. You lost Hudson and picked up Grubbs. Kinda a wash. I don't know anything about Fianaka but kinda seems like a JAG to me. Got some guys coming off injury that we hope will turn into nice players. But we had much that same hope last year.

I think the line is the biggest question mark still regarding the team. And I'm of the opinion that if you don't have a decent line, you don't have anything.

My general draft philosophy is if you are a completely shit team you draft BPA. If you are a top tier team you draft BPA. If you are right on the cusp of transitioning from a middling team to an upper echelon team, you draft for need if the discrepancy between BPA and top position player of need isn't too great...

Having said that, if you think you can get your needed lineman in the second or third round, and so therefore go for more of a hot commodity first, then I'm fine.

Looking forward to this draft...

I have been outspoken in my belief that this team needs to draft O-Line talent this year.

But the fact, as I see it, is that WR is still the most glaring need on this team.

I do not subscribe to the theory that the Chiefs should wait until the second round to fill their most obvious need.

If they hit on a first round receiver, the Chiefs are set for the next five years.

Teams that reach for need are usually teams that fail to improve.

If you have a glaring need, that need can be filled by a player who is only marginally rated lower on the board, then go for it.

But if the top rated WR is like the 5th guy on your board, it would be a mistake to reach.

In short, I agree with sac.

[Psyko Tek]

Tight End

Because Alex smith

OT because Alex Smith
and
WE ARE THE CHIEFS

[DaneMcCloud]

I have been outspoken in my belief that this team needs to draft O-Line talent this year.

But the fact, as I see it, is that WR is still the most glaring need on this team.



Teams that reach for need are usually teams that fail to improve.

If you have a glaring need, that need can be filled by a player who is only marginally rated lower on the board, then go for it.

But if the top rated WR is like the 5th guy on your board, it would be a mistake to reach.

In short, I agree with sac.
Normally, I'd agree with BPA. But in this case, the BPA will likely be a WR that can make an immediate impact. If they believe a guy like Agholor is the perfect #2 for their system, it would be foolish to automatically assume he'd be there in round two.

It's difficult for me to believe that Dorsey would pass on the best available WR prospect in favor of a OLB, ILB, CB, TE, RT or Safety. IMO, that's just irresponsible drafting.

That said, if he shocked the world and chose Bryce Petty, I'd be ecstatic.

[milkman]

Normally, I'd agree with BPA. But in this case, the BPA will likely be a WR that can make an immediate impact. If they believe a guy like Agholor is the perfect #2 for their system, it would be foolish to automatically assume he'd be there in round two.

It's difficult for me to believe that Dorsey would pass on the best available WR prospect in favor of a OLB, ILB, CB, TE, RT or Safety. IMO, that's just irresponsible drafting.

That said, if he shocked the world and chose Bryce Petty, I'd be ecstatic.

That brings up something I intended to ask.

How the hell did the guy who wrote this not even mention our need at ILB?

If I listed in order our needs, ILB would be ahead of CB.

[Sorter]

C, RG, Backup RG.

[DaneMcCloud]

That brings up something I intended to ask.

How the hell did the guy who wrote this not even mention our need at ILB?

If I listed in order our needs, ILB would be ahead of CB.
I would as well. I'm secretly hoping for a draft day trade for Mychal Kendricks, who would immediately improve the defense.

The author runs a website and while I wouldn't put him in the same category of Nick Athan in terms of negative football IQ, he's never been much of a football guy.

[O.city]

Corner would start immediately across from smith and allow them to put Gaines at nickel cb.

[DaneMcCloud]

Corner would start immediately across from smith and allow them to put Gaines at nickel cb.

Gaines can start opposite of Smith with Flemming at nickel or vice versa.

There's no need to make an attempt to replace Smith a full year before his contract expires when there are plenty of CB's on the roster and more immediate needs to fill with a first rounder.

[Dunerdr]

Cb the other two are moot with what we do.

[O.city]

Gaines can start opposite of Smith with Flemming at nickel or vice versa.

There's no need to make an attempt to replace Smith a full year before his contract expires when there are plenty of CB's on the roster and more immediate needs to fill with a first rounder.

Fleming is no reason to not draft a corner if he's the best player on their board.

They've done it the past 2 drafts in the first round so I wouldn't be surprised to see them do it again.

[Dunerdr]

I'd like a quality corner just on the off chance our pass rush fizzles. Houston walk, Hali ages, ford doesn't pan out.

[KevB]

If 4 receivers have been taken and only 1 corner, and you feel that a Kevin Johnson is an immediate starter and Pro Bowl caliber in time, I can't argue with that pick. We didn't have a 2nd round pick last year, this year we do. At least one of Lockett, Algholor, Dorsett, Devin Smith, DGB, etc. should be available in the 2nd. I'll say this --- if we leave the 2nd round without having drafted a WR, I'll be upset. I agree it's our biggest hole, with ILB, OL and CB being next in line IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Fleming is no reason to not draft a corner if he's the best player on their board.

They've done it the past 2 drafts in the first round so I wouldn't be surprised to see them do it again.

And not only would it further the pattern of drafting a guy one year before he's due to start, it would be a mistake to once again pass on a WR, which is by far and away, their biggest need.

[Faddy Yomama]

1. WR
2. RT
3. CB

[Eleazar]

WR
RT
CB

[O.city]

And not only would it further the pattern of drafting a guy one year before he's due to start, it would be a mistake to once again pass on a WR, which is by far and away, their biggest need.

If the value doesn't match up there, you can't draft for need Though. It would potentially cause you to miss out on higher rated better talent.

[DaneMcCloud]

If the value doesn't match up there, you can't draft for need Though. It would potentially cause you to miss out on higher rated better talent.

Nonsense. Who would be more valuable at #18 overall for the Chiefs - a right tackle or a WR?

Come on, that's just silly.

[The Franchise]

Nonsense. Who would be more valuable at #18 overall for the Chiefs - a right tackle or a WR?

Come on, that's just silly.

Depends. Are we reaching for a WR because the top 3 are gone? Is the RT widely considered a top 15 player in the draft?

[Mr. Laz]

I do not subscribe to the theory that the Chiefs should wait until the second round to fill their most obvious need.

If they hit on a first round receiver, the Chiefs are set for the next five years.

Then they should use those comp picks and move up to get the WR they covet.

[The Franchise]

Then they should use all those comp picks and move up and get the WR they covet.

You can't trade comp picks.

[O.city]

Nonsense. Who would be more valuable at #18 overall for the Chiefs - a right tackle or a WR?

Come on, that's just silly.

like pest said, it depends. Why reach for a wr like strong when you can take Lockett in round 2 and get a better ilb prospect or rt or corner in round 1?

[DaneMcCloud]

like pest said, it depends. Why reach for a wr like strong when you can take Lockett in round 2 and get a better ilb prospect or rt or corner in round 1?

What? Where is the guarantee that Lockett will be available when the Chiefs pick in the second round?

That's just silly nonsense. Good grief.

[O.city]

What? Where is the guarantee that Lockett will be available when the Chiefs pick in the second round?

That's just silly nonsense. Good grief.

So you're advocating reaching to take a prospect?

[DaneMcCloud]

Depends. Are we reaching for a WR because the top 3 are gone? Is the RT widely considered a top 15 player in the draft?

Personally, I don't think that Agholor is "reach". I mean, people are talking about Perriman at #18 for the Chiefs and I think that's a serious reach because his production doesn't match his athletic ability but it wouldn't make me hate the pick.

The bottom line for me is that if Dorsey chooses a RT or Center over the extremely obvious need at #18, I will have lost all confidence in his drafting ability. It's just dumb to choose a guy in the first round, at #18 overall, that isn't ready to start or where an opening doesn't exist.

[Mr. Laz]

You can't trade comp picks.
Yes, i know.

You keep the comp pick and trade the other pick in the same round to get where you need to go.

[DaneMcCloud]

So you're advocating reaching to take a prospect?

It's not a "reach" if they take a WR at #18. It would be the best receiver available, which is their biggest need, by far.

Did any of you guys even watch the Chiefs last year? The whole "No TD's to a WR thing?". If so, why in the world would you want to take the 5th or 7th or 10th WR off the board when they could have maybe the third?

[O.city]

I wouldn't be opposed to agholor there actually, but perrin seems to workout warrior for me.

My thing is, I just don't see a whole lot of value difference between the 4th best wr this year and say, the 9th best. There's a big bunch of guys therr that fit what we need.

I think agholor and or Devin smith fit the best and would be interested in rolling the dice to see if one is available in round 2. With the offensive system we run a d Reid's history there, that is

[O.city]

It's not a "reach" if they take a WR at #18. It would be the best receiver available, which is their biggest need, by far.

Did any of you guys even watch the Chiefs last year? The whole "No TD's to a WR thing?". If so, why in the world would you want to take the 5th or 7th or 10th WR off the board when they could have maybe the third?

Depends on the chiefs board though. They may have your 5th or 6th or 10th guy as their 3rd. If that's the case and they have a feel that he's going to be there later, they can wait.

[DaneMcCloud]

Depends on the chiefs board though. They may have your 5th or 6th or 10th guy as their 3rd. If that's the case and they have a feel that he's going to be there later, they can wait.

They had ZERO TD's by a wide receiver. At this point, the only proven, dependable wide receiver is Jeremy Maclin, one year removed from an ACL. They could take a WR in the first and second round for all I care and I still wouldn't exactly feel comfortable going into the season.

The Chiefs will have a top 15 defense, if not top 10, without a single further addition. They have three guys in competition for the right tackle job. Other than ILB, WR is by far their greatest need and if they can't see that, then this regime is doomed to fail.

[O.city]

Wr is the biggest need. Not arguing that. But they don't have to take one in the first round because of that.

[DaneMcCloud]

Wr is the biggest need. Not arguing that. But they don't have to take one in the first round because of that.

Why not? Why not take the most talented WR available at #18?

[O.city]

Why not? Why not take the most talented WR available at #18?

Depends who they see as the most talented. If the guy they see as th most talentef can be had in the 2nd round, why not wait?

[O.city]

They could conceivably see agholor, lockett, dgb, strong, dorsett, perriman, insert wr after the top 3 as all equal. If that's the case, odds are, one of them will be there in round 2 when they pick.

[RunKC]

At 18 Agholor is not as good of a player as a lot of other players. There are several very good WR's available that got this offense in rd 2.

[DaneMcCloud]

They could conceivably see agholor, lockett, dgb, strong, dorsett, perriman, insert wr after the top 3 as all equal. If that's the case, odds are, one of them will be there in round 2 when they pick.

So, they're going to gamble that their biggest need can be filled at #49 instead of #18?

If so, that's an incredibly stupid move.

[RunKC]

Last year we had a huge need for a wide receiver in the first round and we didn't reach for one, which coincidentally was a fringe first rd WR from USC.

I think most of us can say with over 90% confident that our first round pick will be an OL. It was our weakest unit last season and we owned good teams (Pats, Hawks, etc) with terrible WR's but got completely fucked by the OL which ruined our season

Look at the value at WR. Here's your list of second round guys:

Dorsett
Lockett
Hardy
Coates
Conley
D. Smith
McBride
Greene

Basically all of these guys will be there when we pick at 49

[DaneMcCloud]

Last year we had a huge need for a wide receiver in the first round and we didn't reach for one, which coincidentally was a fringe first rd WR from USC.

And it bit them in the ass, didn't it? ZERO TD's to a wide receiving in a passing league.

I think most of us can say with over 90% confident that our first round pick will be an OL. It was our weakest unit last season and we owned good teams (Pats, Hawks, etc) with terrible WR's but got completely fucked by the OL which ruined our season

Put me in the 10% that doesn't believe an offensive lineman will be chosen in the first. Fisher, Grubbs, Kush and Fulton are set. Stephenson, Allen and Sherrod will battle for right tackle.

A first round offensive lineman would be a complete waste of a first round draft choice.

Look at the value at WR. Here's your list of second round guys:

Dorsett
Lockett
Hardy
Coates
Conley
D. Smith
McBride
Greene

Basically all of these guys will be there when we pick at 49

First off, you have absolutely no idea who will be available at #49. There could be a run on WR's, leaving the Chiefs with a much less desirable option. Secondly, passing on their biggest need would be absolutely foolish, regardless of who may or may not be available at #49.

[jonzie04]

So, they're going to gamble that their biggest need can be filled at #49 instead of #18?

If so, that's an incredibly stupid move.

unless they set an nfl record for the most wr's drafted in the second round, there will be a guy there in the second just as talented as agholor.

perriman, smith, dorsett, dgb, funchess, hardy, lockett, mcbride, diggs, coates, conley, greene. even agholor himself may be there. this class is loaded with late first round-2nd round grade WR's thats why theres a new guy gaining steam as a new first round pick every week. first it was dgb, then dorsett, then smith, then perriman, now agholor. these guys are all very similar talents.

theres a pretty big drop off in talent level at cb, tackle, and other positions. Theres a huge drop off at te after max williams.

id rather see us end up with and elite cb prospect like kevin johnson, and tre mcbride

or an elite tackle prospect like collins, and lockett

than to end up with agholor, and a project tackle like rob havenstein.

[Mr. Laz]

Last year we had a huge need for a wide receiver in the first round and we didn't reach for one, which coincidentally was a fringe first rd WR from USC.

I think most of us can say with over 90% confident that our first round pick will be an OL. It was our weakest unit last season and we owned good teams (Pats, Hawks, etc) with terrible WR's but got completely fucked by the OL which ruined our season

Look at the value at WR. Here's your list of second round guys:

Dorsett
Lockett
Hardy
Coates
Conley
D. Smith
McBride
Greene

Basically all of these guys will be there when we pick at 49after last year, i would not be surprised if we didn't draft a WR at all

[RunKC]

Teams aren't gonna make a run on WR's after already doing that last year. I mean look at this

Bengals, steelers, Cowboys, Broncos, packers, Falcons, Colts, lions, cardinals, Jaguars, Giants.

Not one of those teams will draft a WR bc they either did last year or their WR corps is very deep.
Then you have to factor 5 WR's drafted rd 1 so at least 3 teams (maybe 4) picking ahead of us in rd 2 not taking one bc they drafted one in the first rd.
There will be a plethora of very good options at WR available at 49

[DaneMcCloud]

unless they set an nfl record for the most wr's drafted in the second round, there will be a guy there in the second just as talented as agholor.

perriman, smith, dorsett, dgb, funchess, hardy, lockett, mcbride, diggs, coates, conley, greene. even agholor himself may be there. this class is loaded with late first round-2nd round grade WR's thats why theres a new guy gaining steam as a new first round pick every week. first it was dgb, then dorsett, then smith, then perriman, now agholor. these guys are all very similar talents.

theres a pretty big drop off in talent level at cb, tackle, and other positions. Theres a huge drop off at te after max williams.

id rather see us end up with and elite cb prospect like kevin johnson, and tre mcbride

or an elite tackle prospect like collins, and lockett

than to end up with agholor, and a project tackle like rob havenstein.

There is no guarantee that a guy like Perriman and many of the others you've mentioned will have the same kind of career as a Lockett or Agholor. None.

And please tell us why the Chiefs would draft an offensive tackle in the first three rounds? If they do so, Dorsey is dog shit.

[DaneMcCloud]

There will be a plethora of very good options at WR available at 49

Why not take the best option at #18? Your logic is flawed.

[The Franchise]

Why not take the best option at #18? Your logic is flawed.

So say the top CB in this draft falls to #18. You'd rather take a WR who is probably a 2nd rounder than grab the top CB who is a top 10 player?

[jonzie04]

There is no guarantee that a guy like Perriman and many of the others you've mentioned will have the same kind of career as a Lockett or Agholor. None.

And please tell us why the Chiefs would draft an offensive tackle in the first three rounds? If they do so, Dorsey is dog shit.

you seem to think that agholor and lockett are better prospects than all of the other guys i mentioned. that is not the case. if we were picking eariler, and parker was within reach, i'd run to the god damn podium to select him LMAO. i just dont think agholor is any better than any of the other 10 or so wide receivers behind him(if they are even behind him).


and why not take a tackle? dorsey drafts bpa right? a tackle will without a doubt be one of the bpa. collins, peat, flowers, clemmings should be within reach, and the are borderline elite prospects. heck agholor probably wont even be the best wr available let alone the bpa.

it's also a need as we dont have a single tackle on our roster, right or left, who is even an average nfl starter.

but it doesnt have to be a tackle, why take the 2nd round caliber receiver, when there will be much better players available at positions without depth in the draft.

the #1 ilb kendricks could be there
#1 safety collins
#1-3 cb in waynes, johnson, or peters
gregory, or dupree could be there.

agholor is the #6-#15 best wide receiver in this draft depending on what board you look at.

[DaneMcCloud]

So say the top CB in this draft falls to #18. You'd rather take a WR who is probably a 2nd rounder than grab the top CB who is a top 10 player?

Firstly, no one knows how the board will look at #18. If White, Cooper and Parker are gone, do you believe that Jalen Strong is a 2nd rounder? I don't.

Perriman has reportedly into the first round but I'd be wary of him. Agholor is reportedly rising into the first round as more teams get a good look at him. Do you really believe he'll be there at #49? I do not.

The bottom line for me is that the Chiefs need to take the best WR at #18 so that they're starting lineup is set. They don't need to reach for a center, right tackle or CB. Their biggest hole is receiver and IMO, they need to fill it at #18 with the best available wide receiver.

[DaneMcCloud]

you seem to think that agholor and lockett are better prospects than all of the other guys i mentioned. that is not the case. if we were picking eariler, and parker was within reach, i'd run to the god damn podium to select him LMAO. i just dont think agholor is any better than any of the other 10 or so wide receivers behind him(if they are even behind him).

Agree to disagree. And you have no idea when Agholor or Lockett will be drafted.

and why not take a tackle? dorsey drafts bpa right? a tackle will without a doubt be one of the bpa. collins, peat, flowers, clemmings should be within reach, and the are borderline elite prospects. heck agholor probably wont even be the best wr available let alone the bpa.

Because the Chiefs have invested a 2nd and 3rd round pick in the past few years on right tackle in addition to signing a former first rounder to play right tackle.

Taking yet another right tackle at #18 would be a waste of a valuable resource.

it's also a need as we dont have a single tackle on our roster, right or left, who is even an average nfl starter.

So Stephenson wasn't "average" in 2013? I disagree.

but it doesnt have to be a tackle, why take the 2nd round caliber receiver, when there will be much better players available at positions without depth in the draft.

the #1 ilb kendricks could be there
#1 safety collins
#1-3 cb in waynes, johnson, or peters
gregory, or dupree could be there.

agholor is the #6-#15 best wide receiver in this draft depending on what board you look at.

Pure speculation

[RunKC]

Why not take the best option at #18? Your logic is flawed.

I'd love it if we got Agholor at 18. I would be pumped, but the way this regime values the trenches, I think 18 will be a lineman of some sort.

That's just how they operate

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd love it if we got Agholor at 18. I would be pumped, but the way this regime values the trenches, I think 18 will be a lineman of some sort.

That's just how they operate

Fisher was selected to replace Albert. Ford was drafted to replace Hali.

I don't see any indication that this "regime" covets offensive lineman, especially since their 6th round selection of a guard was a starter last year and they're heading into 2015 with a 6th round center drafted in 2013.

[Saccopoo]

Depends. Are we reaching for a WR because the top 3 are gone? Is the RT widely considered a top 15 player in the draft?

The thing is, in this draft, the guys who best fit Reid's Lavell Edwards West Coast offensive system are not really what most pundits consider as "first rounders" in this draft.

You need quick guys who have very good initial burst off the line and their cuts/route breaks. You need guys who are smart, who can assimilate the extensive play book which has a huge number of route trees and options. You need guys who understand timing and routes and leverage. You need guys who have a large catch radius, guys who can extend their hands away from their body to get a ball in a certain area while continuing their route.

The guys in this draft who fit that profile are (in my personal order of preference with their 3 Cone time mentioned):

1. Amari Cooper, Alabama (6.71)
2. Nelson Agholor, USC
3. Tre McBride, William & Mary (6.96)
4. Tyler Lockett, Kansas State (6.89)
5. Rashard Greene, Florida State (6.88)
6. Vince Mayle, Washington State (6.93)
7. Kenny Bell, Nebraska (6.66)
8. Justin Hardy, East Carolina (6.63)
9. Jamison Crowder, Duke (7.17)
10. Ty Montgomery, Stanford (6.97)

Cooper they will never see. Agholor has experience in an offensive system that is based on the same one that Reid runs. McBride has an ideal frame, is very smart and possesses exceptional receiving skills. He's basically a twin of Amari Cooper that played at a small school. Lockett and Greene are twins, both game wise and physically. Gifted route runners that seem to catch everything thrown their way. Maylem and Bell are bigger guys who are very good at hitting their spots/breaks and have a second gear getting upfield. Hardy and Crowder are hard working receivers who have been exceptionally productive. Montgomery is a smart, athletic dude on a very thick frame who has very good turn and burst speed.

There are two guys, who, pending further player evaluations, based on their roles in the college game, need to be highlighted:

Phillip Dorsett, Miami (6.70)
Devin Smith, Ohio State

Both players are extremely gifted athletically and speed wise, but both ran an extremely limited route tree in college. Both have the same questions about their game (problems tracking the ball, lack of experience, maxed frame), but there is no doubting their athletic skill set.

And three dudes who everybody forgot about because of injury, but were considered some of the best receivers in all of college football.:

DeAndre Smelter, Georgia Tech
Dres Anderson, Utah
Matt Miller, Boise State

------------------

As far as potential offensive line guys go, La'el Collins fits this offense like a glove. Could immediately play and upgrade four positions on this offensive line (both tackle and guard spots). Other than him, the rest of the possible "right tackles" in this draft are projects with holes in their games as it currently stands.

However, do you spend a first rounder on a RG who could possibly be your RT when you have Jeff Allen, Don Stephenson and Derek Sherrod on the roster and you could get a guy like John Miller with one of those third picks?

I'm not sure.

Personally, I believe that La'el Collins would most likely be the best pick that this team could make with the #18 pick, but I doubt he's there as I think he'll be the first OL off the board. At that point, do you reach for a WR or go for a BPA/high ceiling guy like Bud Dupree, Arik Armstead, Melvin Gordon, Byron Jones, Eric Rowe, Randy Gregory, etc.?

It will be interesting to see what happens, what type of numbers Dorsey's Decision Lens matrix pumps out at the #18 spot when the first seventeen selections have already been made.

[Saccopoo]

unless they set an nfl record for the most wr's drafted in the second round, there will be a guy there in the second just as talented as agholor.

perriman, smith, dorsett, dgb, funchess, hardy, lockett, mcbride, diggs, coates, conley, greene. even agholor himself may be there. this class is loaded with late first round-2nd round grade WR's thats why theres a new guy gaining steam as a new first round pick every week. first it was dgb, then dorsett, then smith, then perriman, now agholor. these guys are all very similar talents.

theres a pretty big drop off in talent level at cb, tackle, and other positions. Theres a huge drop off at te after max williams.

I don't agree. Personally, I think that Williams is being severely overrated around here and guys like Heuerman (who would fit this offense flawlessly and really compliment Kelce) would be a perfectly acceptable choice later in the draft.

id rather see us end up with and elite cb prospect like kevin johnson, and tre mcbride

or an elite tackle prospect like collins, and lockett

than to end up with agholor, and a project tackle like rob havenstein.

All day long.

[BossChief]

You guys are severely under rating this WR class.

The 2 guys I listen to in the media as far as knowledge of how players transition from college to the NFL and how they should be ranked in terms of draft value (Daniel Jeremiah and Mike Mayock) have this WR draft class as having about 8 guys with a first round grade.

They also say this class is as good as last years.

If it really is that deep, it would be a little wasteful to draft one in the first if another need (at a shallower position) is available with a similar grade.

Another fact to consider is that Sean Smith will want big money and CB is a spot that players need need time to acclimate to the pro game and learn from vets how to be a pro. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a corner at 18 for those reasons, especially with our pass rush...a rookie corner with the ABILITY to become a shutdown guy would be a wise investment.

[O.city]

Devils advocate but if the wr class is that deep and good, why not take 2 of them?

[BossChief]

I don't agree. Personally, I think that Williams is being severely overrated around here and guys like Heuerman (who would fit this offense flawlessly and really compliment Kelce) would be a perfectly acceptable choice later in the draft.



All day long.

I think we missed a big opportunity to sign Scott Chandler to fill the #2 TE spot.

He signed in NE for 2 years under 5m.

That would have been a great signing for us to pair with Kelce.

[The Franchise]

I would be just fine with BPA at #18 and then trading up in the 2nd round to grab a WR.

[Saccopoo]

Put me in the 10% that doesn't believe an offensive lineman will be chosen in the first. Fisher, Grubbs, Kush and Fulton are set. Stephenson, Allen and Sherrod will battle for right tackle.

Fulton needs to be upgraded.

Slowest feet I've ever seen on a starting NFL guard. The guy was worked, a lot, last year because of it. Yeah, he was a rookie and all, but the reason he was starting was because the team basically had nothing behind him. McGlynn or Linkenbach? You saw what the results of that were throughout the whole season.

Fulton is a hard worker with power and a good base. But he's fucking slow. Like really slow.

RG does need to be addressed.

If La'el Collins is at #18, you probably take him. He's potentially better at any of the offensive line positions than whatever else we currently have.

At the very least, this team should seriously consider John Miller with one of their third round picks.

But I agree with the others that there will be a very good receiving prospect in the second or third round and they'll also be able to get another very solid receiver with one of their fifth round picks. Like I posted previously, there are a number of receivers who I think fit this system exceptionally well who aren't necessarily the "first round" dude.

[BossChief]

Devils advocate but if the wr class is that deep and good, why not take 2 of them?

Well, IMO I think we already have 3 guys that can play at WR and we need 2 more, so I wouldn't be opposed to that idea.

Maclin
Avant
Wilson

If we could draft a guy like DGB, Smith, Dorsett, Parker or Aghlor at 18 and then come back and draft another in the 2nd, I'd be game.

The defense is ready to go...time to add more explosive potential to the offense.

[BigChiefFan]

Fulton needs to be upgraded.

Slowest feet I've ever seen on a starting NFL guard. The guy was worked, a lot, last year because of it. Yeah, he was a rookie and all, but the reason he was starting was because the team basically had nothing behind him. McGlynn or Linkenbach? You saw what the results of that were throughout the whole season.

Fulton is a hard worker with power and a good base. But he's ****ing slow. Like really slow.

RG does need to be addressed.

If La'el Collins is at #18, you probably take him. He's potentially better at any of the offensive line positions than whatever else we currently have.

At the very least, this team should seriously consider John Miller with one of their third round picks.

But I agree with the others that there will be a very good receiving prospect in the second or third round and they'll also be able to get another very solid receiver with one of their fifth round picks. Like I posted previously, there are a number of receivers who I think fit this system exceptionally well who aren't necessarily the "first round" dude.

They did address RG. Fanaika ring any bells?

[The Franchise]

I'm not skipping out on a WR because of Avant.

[BossChief]

I would be just fine with BPA at #18 and then trading up in the 2nd round to grab a WR.

If we can move late rounders or a pick from next year to move up, I'm game.

I don't want them to touch our picks in RDS 1-4 unless it's to move up for a QB.

[Saccopoo]

Devils advocate but if the wr class is that deep and good, why not take 2 of them?

They should.

I would.

McBride or Lockett or Greene early, then a Kenny Bell/Vince Mayle/Ty Montgomery guy later would be awesome.

And, like I said, I'd love to see them pick up Anderson, Smelter or Miller in FA as well.

[BossChief]

I'm not skipping out on a WR because of Avant.

Did anyone say they should?

IMO Avant and Maclin are perfect guys to help a pair of talented rookies get up to speed in Andy's offense while also being able to step in game 1 and produce.

[BossChief]

They did address RG. Fanaika ring any bells?

Thanks.

I just threw up in my mouth.

[Saccopoo]

They did address RG. Fanaika ring any bells?

Nope, not a one.

Fanaika is Fulton.

Fulton is Fanaika.

Big, slow, power dudes.

I know Dorsey loves that guy for his RG (he's brought that guy in every single year he's been here), but they aren't elite. Won't be elite. 40% type of player max.

That's not going to cut it for this QB. They need, roughly, 60%'ers across the entire line to ensure Smith's success. They don't have that right now.

I think Fisher will be that guy this season. Grubbs is. The rest of the line from C and over is a huge question mark. I have faith that they'll find a starting RT between Allen, Stephenson and Sherrod. Maybe even one of those guys slides into the RG position and upgrades it.

But as of right now, C, RG and RT are unknowns.

[Easy 6]

Devils advocate but if the wr class is that deep and good, why not take 2 of them?

With 10 picks it would be a massive blunder if they didn't.

[Meatloaf]

Gentlemen, it seems to me that Dorsey is the kind of guy who, when he sees someone he wants, he grabs him. Period. Obviously, he and Reid wanted Alex, so they didn't mess around, they got him. They apparently wanted Dee Ford (who as I recall was projected as a 1/2 round pick), so they took him. I think if there's a guy there who they REALLY want at #18, they aren't going to wait around and "hope" he's there in the next round. Might mean they reach a bit in some people's eyes, but at least they get the guy they wanted.

Now, whether that's a WR, CB, ILB, OL, DL or whatever, well, that's the question.

In re-reading this, I'm not sure it added any value to the discussion, but at the time it sure seemed like a pretty cogent observation. In retrospect, probably just moar CP spew. Apologies abound.

Ps. No doubt you all can't wait for my next post. Hopefully, it'll put this one to shame. Hopefully.

[RunKC]

I think you are underestimating Chris Conley Sac. He is exactly what we need.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think you are underestimating Chris Conley Sac. He is exactly what we need.

He doesn't sound like a fit for Reid's WCO to me

WEAKNESSES: Lean-limbed and lacks ideal bulk and core strength for the position. Needs to calm himself in his breaks and tends to get out of control at his stem. Too upright in his routes and doesn't consistently sink-and-shake to fool defenders and create separation. Too easily slowed by defenders in his patterns and can be out-muscled at the top of routes.

Bad habit of unnecessarily jumping at the catch point. Usually strong hands, but will fight the ball at times and lose focus, often too concerned with what's going on around him. Tentative over the middle. Doesn't consistently flash the same explosive attributes after the catch, not overly shifty in space. Not a tackle breaker and he's usually done once defenders make initial contact. Needs to tweak his blocking technique to better sustain.

Doesn't have any experience as a return man on special teams. Minor durability concerns, missing two games as a junior (Oct. 2013) with an ankle injury and was slowed at the start of his senior season due to a subluxation of his right shoulder (Aug. 2014).

[Easy 6]

Fulton is a hard worker with power and a good base. But he's ****ing slow. Like really slow.

This is all 100% truth.

LDT has more than enough quickness, it'd be nice if his football IQ took a quantum leap this year and Fulton could be replaced in-house.

[RunKC]

for christ sakes Sac we aren't drafting a G at 18. No. Just fuck no. I don't want a C at 18 either.

The only reason you draft an OL rd 1 is to play RT and have the ability to play LT in case Fisher flops. That's why I think Andrus Peat is the best option. Flowers might work as well.

But come on man. You can get a good G in rd 3. Josue Matias and John Miller would be good picks available at that point, just like your boy Gabe Jackson was available last year.

[BigChiefFan]

Thanks.

I just threw up in my mouth.Lol. It might not be who we wanted, but it was addressed. Like it or not.

[Saccopoo]

for christ sakes Sac we aren't drafting a G at 18. No. Just **** no. I don't want a C at 18 either.

The only reason you draft an OL rd 1 is to play RT and have the ability to play LT in case Fisher flops. That's why I think Andrus Peat is the best option. Flowers might work as well.

But come on man. You can get a good G in rd 3. Josue Matias and John Miller would be good picks available at that point, just like your boy Gabe Jackson was available last year.

I was just going by what this dude told me. He seems like he knows some shit.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=291878

[Chief Roundup]

Why not take the best option at #18? Your logic is flawed.

If by best option you mean Best Player Available it will not be a WR. If you are talking about Best Player at a position of need that is different.

[RunKC]

I was just going by what this dude told me. He seems like he knows some shit.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=291878

I can't see G. IMO if it's OL I think it's a tackle.

[Chief Roundup]

I was just going by what this dude told me. He seems like he knows some shit.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=291878

:doh!:

[Saccopoo]

I can't see G. IMO if it's OL I think it's a tackle.

That's why La'el Collins makes sense. He could basically upgrade any position on the offensive line.

Whatever the outcome of the mini's and summer camp is, they would have at least one decent lineman on the team to start the 2015 season. (Though I'm thinking that Fisher and Grubbs should be solid.)

Personally, other than Collins, I wouldn't really be thrilled about them taking a tackle prospect in the entire draft. With Fisher, Allen, Stephenson and Sherrod, they should be fine at the position. Other than improving RG with the possibility of that guy (Miller/Mason) moving over to C, I think that they are fine on the offensive line. Draft John Miller in the third. Done.

[DaneMcCloud]

If by best option you mean Best Player Available it will not be a WR. If you are talking about Best Player at a position of need that is different.

When did you become a fortune teller?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

1. C

2. C

3. C/Chiefs

[Chief Roundup]

When did you become a fortune teller?

Do you think Amari Cooper, Kevin White or Devante Parker are going to fall to our pick? Are you being a fortune teller?
Most "experts" have them all gone by 15.

[Saccopoo]

Do you think Amari Cooper, Kevin White or Devante Parker are going to fall to our pick? Are you being a fortune teller?
Most "experts" have them all gone by 15.

White and Parker don't necessarily fit the system. Both are downfield, chuck it up dawg type of guys.

Neither show a lot of quick on the field. In fact, most people were talking about if White ran a 4.5 something at the Combine that it would cement him for a first round pick. Nobody thought that they guy was going to run that 4.35 based on his game tape.