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View Full Version : Chiefs Dorsey-"there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft"


RunKC
04-24-2015, 11:16 AM
@TerezPaylor: #Chiefs GM John Dorsey says there are 10-12 impact players in this draft.

Looks like a trade down is coming. Can you guess the 12 players?

cmh6476
04-24-2015, 11:18 AM
Hopefully 10 of those are OL

ptlyon
04-24-2015, 11:19 AM
"reach"

Prison Bitch
04-24-2015, 11:19 AM
Convenient for a guy picking 18 to say


If we were picking 7, he'd have culled his list to five

Discuss Thrower
04-24-2015, 11:20 AM
Probably going to be one of the shittier drafts to have 7+ picks.

mcaj22
04-24-2015, 11:20 AM
doubt a trade down. But its his way of justifying using a first rounder on another Eric Fisher/Dee Ford type who takes 2-3 years to develop rather than a guy that can come in day 1 and make an instant impact... but I expected nothing less from our first rounder cause thats ususlly the Chiefs Way

Bowser
04-24-2015, 11:21 AM
Convenient for a guy picking 18 to say


If we were picking 7, he'd have culled his list to five

This. He's trying to entice a team to move up so he can get his wish and move down.

Bowser
04-24-2015, 11:24 AM
doubt a trade down. But its his way of justifying using a first rounder on another Eric Fisher/Dee Ford type who takes 2-3 years to develop rather than a guy that can come in day 1 and make an instant impact... but I expected nothing less from our first rounder cause thats ususlly the Chiefs Way

Look at Dorsey's two first round picks -

- Eric Fisher for Brandon Albert who was in his final year here
- Dee Ford for Tamba Hali that most everyone expected not to be here this season

Sean Smith is in his final year of his contract, and he's looking at a two game suspension to start the year. We're going corner in the first this draft, and Dorsey probably feels like he can nab one further down than where we are right now.

Rain Man
04-24-2015, 11:26 AM
There are 12 impact players and we have 11 picks. I don't see the problem.

Mr. Laz
04-24-2015, 11:28 AM
daniel jeremiah says there are 14-17 wow players in this draft if you include the 2 top runningbacks.

of course the Chiefs have the #18th pick with 17 max wow players in the draft :banghead:

mcaj22
04-24-2015, 11:29 AM
Look at Dorsey's two first round picks -

- Eric Fisher for Brandon Albert who was in his final year here
- Dee Ford for Tamba Hali that most everyone expected not to be here this season

Sean Smith is in his final year of his contract, and he's looking at a two game suspension to start the year. We're going corner in the first this draft, and Dorsey probably feels like he can nab one further down than where we are right now.

yea his two first round picks who made zero impact as rookies for this team compared to players who were picked after that could have. Hes going to do it again.

and I like both players. Ive just accepted the fact that the Chiefs arent getting a year 1 impact talent

Just Passin' By
04-24-2015, 11:29 AM
There are 12 impact players
The Chiefs pick at 18

I look forward to hearing something along the lines of

"He's one of the guys we felt would be an impact player, and we're thrilled that he was still there at 18".

Ebolapox
04-24-2015, 11:30 AM
daniel jeremiah says there are 14-17 wow players in this draft if you include the 2 top runningbacks.

of course the Chiefs have the #18th pick with 17 max wow players in the draft :banghead:

some team will be stupid and draft offensive linemen before us. sorry, unless it's joe thomas, orlando pace, jon ogden or walter jones, an offensive lineman isn't 'wow' in any way, shape, or form.

alpha_omega
04-24-2015, 11:38 AM
Well, let's go up and get one of them then!

Titty Meat
04-24-2015, 11:39 AM
So then we're trading up

RunKC
04-24-2015, 11:40 AM
There are 12 impact players
The Chiefs pick at 18

I look forward to hearing something along the lines of

"He's one of the guys we felt would be an impact player, and we're thrilled that he was still there at 18".

That doesn't mean they are all favored players that everyone else has.

It could easily be composed of players like Marcus Peters, Phillip Dorsett, Nelson Agholor, etc who could be there at our pick.

The Franchise
04-24-2015, 11:40 AM
That doesn't mean they are all favored players that everyone else has.

It could easily be composed of players like Marcus Peters, Phillip Dorsett, Nelson Agholor, etc who could be there at our pick.

Yep.

Scorp
04-24-2015, 11:43 AM
LOl good ol chiefs. We cant draft for shit so lets put out the we need to trade down card. Who cares right Clark? As long as tickets keep being sold.

RustShack
04-24-2015, 11:46 AM
So we are taking DGB, since he will likely be the only impact player to fall to 18.

The Franchise
04-24-2015, 11:48 AM
I would almost bet on a trade down. There are teams in the 20's that are going to want to either trade up for an OT (Carolina) or a RB (Arizona, Dallas).

Just Passin' By
04-24-2015, 11:51 AM
That doesn't mean they are all favored players that everyone else has.

It could easily be composed of players like Marcus Peters, Phillip Dorsett, Nelson Agholor, etc who could be there at our pick.

I wasn't picking on Dorsey. That's a standard type of PR line for almost all GMs. It's like them saying "He was the #1 guy on our board". Pretty much every GM not named Belichick takes this approach. And I'm not saying that to excuse Belichick, it's just that he goes in a different direction because of his penchant for trading down.

Belichick takes the route of trying to sell people on "We had a group of about 5 players that we weighted the same, so we were able to trade down and still get one of them".

In both cases, the truth of the matter is irrelevant.

RunKC
04-24-2015, 11:53 AM
I would almost bet on a trade down. There are teams in the 20's that are going to want to either trade up for an OT (Carolina) or a RB (Arizona, Dallas).

Speaking of. Yeah I think a trade down is coming..

@TerezPaylor: #Chiefs GM John Dorsey says they have called around and told teams they are open to having trade discussions. Obvious but keep it in mind.

Hog's Gone Fishin
04-24-2015, 11:56 AM
daniel jeremiah says there are 14-17 wow players in this draft if you include the 2 top runningbacks.

of course the Chiefs have the #18th pick with 17 max wow players in the draft :banghead:

Yea but he's including Winston and Mariota both of which will be busts.

Mr. Laz
04-24-2015, 11:59 AM
Yea but he's including Winston and Mariota both of which will be busts.

Well that pretty much seals both to be pro bowlers.


jonny foosball!!!!!!!!!

Red Dawg
04-24-2015, 12:05 PM
The whole statement is stupid. As if anyone knows how many in the draft will be any good.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2015, 12:06 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

ptlyon
04-24-2015, 12:13 PM
John Dorsey wouldn't know an impact player even if they came up and ****ed him in the face

alpha_omega
04-24-2015, 12:14 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

Shazaam!

The Franchise
04-24-2015, 12:15 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

Dorsey's impact players are probably not the same as another GM's impact players.

CaliforniaChief
04-24-2015, 12:16 PM
You guys realize that everyone is lying right now, right?

Sofa King
04-24-2015, 12:20 PM
You guys realize that everyone is lying right now, right?

That's not true.

Mr. Laz
04-24-2015, 12:20 PM
You guys realize that everyone is lying right now, right?
I don't think Jeremiah is lying.

He might be wrong but he's not lying.


I've heard several professional draftniks say a similar thing ... 12-ish impact players on paper.

Now every year there are at least a dozen impact players that aren't even listed in the 1st round. :shrug:

Bewbies
04-24-2015, 12:21 PM
There are 12 impact players and we have 11 picks. I don't see the problem.

The thread ender. Well done.

Pitt Gorilla
04-24-2015, 12:33 PM
I don't think Jeremiah is lying.

He might be wrong but he's not lying.


I've heard several professional draftniks say a similar thing ... 12-ish impact players on paper.

Now every year there are at least a dozen impact players that aren't even listed in the 1st round. :shrug:I don't get the point of evening saying something like that (Jeremiah). There are gong to be later round guys that make an impact. There will be first round guys that bust.

TribalElder
04-24-2015, 12:42 PM
Players who can come in and have an immediate impact on the game

That number is probably right, good thing for us some teams drafting ahead of us probably don't count the impact players correctly

DC.chief
04-24-2015, 12:42 PM
People lie? holy shit

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 12:45 PM
I think this is true of every draft.

There are 10-12 guys that can start from game one and have an immediate impact. Sometimes, it's players taken high and some times it's guys in the second, third, fourth or even undrafted.

The issue is and has always been the same: Identify, scout, draft and develop talent for your system, only.

Fairplay
04-24-2015, 12:54 PM
So then we're trading up

Or trading down.

Bambi
04-24-2015, 01:04 PM
Just being safe and making sure he keeps his job.

Same Chiefs franchise for 30 years now.

Bewbies
04-24-2015, 01:05 PM
Bitchplanet

jonzie04
04-24-2015, 01:08 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

My Exact thoughts

Warpaint69
04-24-2015, 01:14 PM
LOl good ol chiefs. We cant draft for shit so lets put out the we need to trade down card. Who cares right Clark? As long as tickets keep being sold.

Thats funny. Every player in your sig was drafted by the Chiefs over the years.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 01:16 PM
Or trading down.

Or staying put.

:D

Throwout Winston and Mariota. Will both might start immediately, neither will be a big time immediate impact player. I seriously doubt that Leonard Williams or Danny Shelton will be immediate impact players. Defensive line is generally the most difficult position for a rookie.

Dante Fowler? Bud Dupree? Shane Ray? Vic Beasley? Hard to say but doubtful. If any of those guys got six sacks, I'd consider that a big year for a rookie on bad teams without an opposing pass rusher. Randy Gregory? If he falls far enough, maybe. If he goes to the Ravens, Steelers or Patriots, he could have a very good rookie season.

Running back? Blech. Melvin Gordon and Todd Gurley might have 1,000 yard seasons but who cares? It's a devalued position. Offensive line? Is there such a thing as an "impact" offensive lineman? Scherf, Ereck Flowers, La'el Collins, Cameron Erving and D.J. Humphries will likely all start immediately but does that mean that they'll be immediate shutdown players? Highly unlikely.

So that leaves the cornerbacks and wide receivers. Cooper, White, Parker, Agholor, Dorsett, Smith, maybe Waynes, Johnson, Peters or Maxx Williams?

I think there's good reason for the Chiefs to stay at #18.

Fish
04-24-2015, 01:18 PM
That's not true.

http://i60.tinypic.com/j0ab1e.jpg

jonzie04
04-24-2015, 01:19 PM
There aren't too many players I'd want to trade up for in the second. Marcus peters, then clemmings or Gregory if they fell that far. What I would really love to see is the raiders pass on cooper and then for us to trade up to 8-9 to take him.

BigMeatballDave
04-24-2015, 01:30 PM
doubt a trade down. But its his way of justifying using a first rounder on another Eric Fisher/Dee Ford type who takes 2-3 years to develop rather than a guy that can come in day 1 and make an instant impact... but I expected nothing less from our first rounder cause thats ususlly the Chiefs Way

Cool. More crying.

We just don't see enough of it around here...

RealSNR
04-24-2015, 01:46 PM
There aren't too many players I'd want to trade up for in the second. Marcus peters, then clemmings or Gregory if they fell that far. What I would really love to see is the raiders pass on cooper and then for us to trade up to 8-9 to take him.

You'd be giving up a 1st and probably a 2nd and a late rounder to move up that much for Cooper.

He's not THAT good.

BigMeatballDave
04-24-2015, 01:52 PM
Bitchplanet

Heh, exactly.

Seems a lot around here aren't happy unless they get to do it.

We're all aware of what the Chiefs do most years. It's like living in Alaska during the winter and bitching about the lack of daylight.

Bewbies
04-24-2015, 01:53 PM
The teams who, historically speaking, draft best, don't draft for year 1. The Steelers never get shit from rookies.

Why people complain about drafting guys who will develop into our system makes no sense to me. You draft guys for 5-10 years, not 1.

RealSNR
04-24-2015, 01:56 PM
The teams who, historically speaking, draft best, don't draft for year 1. The Steelers never get shit from rookies.

Why people complain about drafting guys who will develop into our system makes no sense to me. You draft guys for 5-10 years, not 1.

That's because those teams usually have few holes and a lot of depth at multiple positions. That's why you usually never see those rookies do shit.

SeeingRed
04-24-2015, 02:10 PM
well hopefully one of those "impact" players fall to #18

kccrow
04-24-2015, 02:42 PM
I'm trying to whittle a list down to 10-12 from this:

QB Winston
RB Gurley
RB Gordon
WR Cooper
WR White
WR Parker
WR Strong
WR Agholor
WR Dorsett
OL Scherff
OL Peat
OL Collins
OL Humphries
OL Fisher
OL Grasu
OL Cann
OL Tomlinson
OL Marpet
ED Ray*
ED Gregory
ED Dupree
ED Fowler
ED Beasley
DT Williams
DT Shelton
DT Brown
LB Kendricks
CB Waynes
CB Johnson
CB Peters

Who you crossing off as "impact" player rookie year? I'm thinking Ray is one with the injury thing..

The Franchise
04-24-2015, 02:43 PM
I'm trying to whittle a list down to 10-12 from this:

QB Winston
RB Gurley
RB Gordon
WR Cooper
WR White
WR Parker
WR Strong
WR Agholor
WR Dorsett
OL Scherff
OL Peat
OL Collins
OL Humphries
OL Fisher
OL Grasu
OL Cann
OL Tomlinson
OL Marpet
ED Ray*
ED Gregory
ED Dupree
ED Fowler
ED Beasley
DT Williams
DT Shelton
DT Brown
LB Kendricks
CB Waynes
CB Johnson
CB Peters

My best guess.

Discuss Thrower
04-24-2015, 02:45 PM
Knock off one of those WRs and add a DE/OLB and I think you're there, Pest.

The Franchise
04-24-2015, 02:47 PM
Although that list isn't necessarily for our team. For our team you would have to probably remove both of the RBs, add a WR and probably another offensive lineman.

RobBlake
04-24-2015, 02:51 PM
all this is bs talk. Not all players attain and match their hype going into the NFL, we all know this.

Pasta Little Brioni
04-24-2015, 02:53 PM
You guys actually believe this shit?

Bewbies
04-24-2015, 03:07 PM
That's because those teams usually have few holes and a lot of depth at multiple positions. That's why you usually never see those rookies do shit.

I would hate to draft in a manner that produces a team with few holes And a lot of depth at multiple positions.

kccrow
04-24-2015, 03:33 PM
You guys actually believe this shit?

My list has 30 players I think could at least have day 1 impacts on this team and I left off a few. That's the point. No way do I think there are only 10-12 guys that could come in and be "impact" players.

Now, if Dorsey were to think there will only be 10-12 impact players on the board at #18, then yeah I can agree with that.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 04:40 PM
I'm trying to whittle a list down to 10-12 from this:

QB Winston
RB Gurley
RB Gordon
WR Cooper
WR White
WR Parker
WR Strong
WR Agholor
WR Dorsett
OL Scherff
OL Peat
OL Collins
OL Humphries
OL Fisher
OL Grasu
OL Cann
OL Tomlinson
OL Marpet
ED Ray*
ED Gregory
ED Dupree
ED Fowler
ED Beasley
DT Williams
DT Shelton
DT Brown
LB Kendricks
CB Waynes
CB Johnson
CB Peters

Who you crossing off as "impact" player rookie year? I'm thinking Ray is one with the injury thing..

You can't be serious. Either that or your definition of "impact" is far different than John Dorsey's or the normal person.

"Impact" doesn't mean "start" from game one nor does it mean contribute. Impact means that the player is special and elevates the rest of the team to a level unattainable without him on the field.

OnTheWarpath15
04-24-2015, 04:51 PM
I'd like to know his definition of "impact player".

Mr. Laz
04-24-2015, 05:06 PM
he must be thinking that 'impact' equals getting in some games their 1st year

xztop123
04-24-2015, 05:41 PM
i dont buy the trade down idea at THIS point

look at our roster, we're fairly deep in all positions. (meaning that a 4th, or 5th round player is going to have a hard time making the roster at nearly any position)

we need some playmakers at the top of the draft, though

notorious
04-24-2015, 05:45 PM
I bet one of the players is from a nearby state........

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 05:50 PM
i dont buy the trade down idea at THIS point

look at our roster, we're fairly deep in all positions. (meaning that a 4th, or 5th round player is going to have a hard time making the roster at nearly any position)

Wide Receiver and Inside Linebacker are hardly deep positions. A case could easily be made for OLB, safety, swing tackle, center and even running back. After Charles & Davis, the cupboard's bare, IMO.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 05:55 PM
I bet one of the players is from a nearby state........

Nebraska?

SeeingRed
04-24-2015, 05:57 PM
he must be thinking that 'impact' equals getting in some games their 1st year

Someone who has a big impact......i guess :roll eyes:

How many impact players has Dorsey drafted so far? I'd say 1....Kelce. I would consider Kelce an impact player. Everybody else verdict is still out. :hmmm: If Fisher becomes a great left tackle then he is an impact player, even if it took some time....i guess, no?

Deberg_1990
04-24-2015, 05:57 PM
I don't really see the controversy?

History has shown he's right. That's pretty typical for most drafts

10-12 impact
A whole lot of solid to mediocre players
A whole lot of busts

Just depends on how u want to define "impact player"

Coochie liquor
04-24-2015, 05:58 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

Not when you have tes like the Jets, Faiders, Browns, etc picking before you. Chances of those teams NOT getting an impact player are pretty high.

Saccopoo
04-24-2015, 06:16 PM
If your GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft, shouldn't he be trying to move up and grab one rather than move back and get a guy he doesn't believe is an impact player?

If my GM feels that there are only 10-12 impact players in a draft, they haven't done their fucking work, unless Dorsey is envisioning that there will be 10-12 impact players available when they pick each round with each pick.

Fucking Dorsey.

Saccopoo
04-24-2015, 06:19 PM
You'd be giving up a 1st and probably a 2nd and a late rounder to move up that much for Cooper.

He's not THAT good.

Not when Tre McBride is still on the board and they are damn near identical in every single facet of the game.

notorious
04-24-2015, 06:21 PM
Nebraska?

Possibly, if he wasn't a walking injury.

RealSNR
04-24-2015, 06:23 PM
I think people in general are just like, "Fuck it, we really need a WR, so draft one in the 1st round!"

There are far better players to be had than Phillip Dorsett or DGB at 18. Sorry folks, but it's true.

Dunerdr
04-24-2015, 06:39 PM
His whole speech seemed like he was just talking about round one. He said there will be 32 players drafted. Maybe 10-12 first round impact guys.

ThaVirus
04-24-2015, 07:37 PM
"Smoke screen"

Sweet Daddy Hate
04-24-2015, 08:12 PM
John Dorsey wouldn't know an impact player even if they came up and ****ed him in the face

ROFL

I'd like to know his definition of "impact player".

I think he mean "impacted" player.

DaneMcCloud
04-24-2015, 08:46 PM
John Dorsey wouldn't know an impact player even if they came up and ****ed him in the face

Funny, I thought Knile Davis was an impact player his rookie season, as was DAT last season.

That Travis Kelce guy can play some footballs, too.

redshirt32
04-24-2015, 09:05 PM
"Smoke screen"

This

There is a shit load of talent to be had Mid 3 through the fourth rd you need to be armed to the teeth, the problem is we will be chasing ILB/TE/FS/CB/S just a all the other teams.

I could see a trade down or a trade up in any rd, or we might just catch a break for once.... if FA is any indication of how crazy the draft might be this year..... Im past ready lets get this shit going

We are way past due for a draft to fall our way

kccrow
04-24-2015, 11:21 PM
You can't be serious. Either that or your definition of "impact" is far different than John Dorsey's or the normal person.

"Impact" doesn't mean "start" from game one nor does it mean contribute. Impact means that the player is special and elevates the rest of the team to a level unattainable without him on the field.


You'll be lucky to get 10-12 of these types in a single draft, and it is almost certain less than half will come from the 1st round.

When I think of "impact" player in the context in which Dorsey said something, I think a player that will come in and make an immediate positive contribution to the team in year one. I think of guys that can make the football team better right away. Yes, I do think there are more than 10 guys that can come in and make this team better right away. Will they make it exceptional or will that be an exceptional player throughout his career? That is unlikely.

ping2000
04-25-2015, 12:11 AM
Two events that will never happen in the same year: Chiefs have lots of picks AND deep draft. Chiefs.

007
04-25-2015, 03:23 AM
Just don't make me late for work Thursday night damnit.

007
04-25-2015, 03:24 AM
Two events that will never happen in the same year: Chiefs have lots of picks AND deep draft. Chiefs.

The Chiefs rarely get a draft that benefits them. We have had what, one in the past 10 years?

Get the first pick of the draft, nobody worth drafting and nobody to trade with. Get 11 picks in a draft and no real impact players to fall to you.

Because Chiefs.

milkman
04-25-2015, 07:42 AM
I'd like to know his definition of "impact player".

This, absolutely.

Just reading through this thread, you can see 3 or 4 different definitions.

milkman
04-25-2015, 07:44 AM
You can't be serious. Either that or your definition of "impact" is far different than John Dorsey's or the normal person.

"Impact" doesn't mean "start" from game one nor does it mean contribute. Impact means that the player is special and elevates the rest of the team to a level unattainable without him on the field.

I agree with your definition, while I disagree with your earlier opinion that DAT falls into that category.

BossChief
04-25-2015, 10:10 AM
Question...

When Dorsey says there are only 12 impact players in this draft, why does that make some think he's referencing trading down from 18?

I'd think that would indicate he's willing to move up if certain scenarios play out.

Also, I wonder if he views Dorial as one of his "possibles" as why he didn't give a definitive number and instead a range.

srvy
04-25-2015, 10:18 AM
I don't get the point of evening saying something like that (Jeremiah). There are gong to be later round guys that make an impact. There will be first round guys that bust.

We will trade up for that guy!

notorious
04-25-2015, 10:22 AM
There are gong to be later round guys that make an impact. There will be first round guys that bust.

That's why you draft O-Line. Safe pick.

staylor26
04-25-2015, 10:23 AM
I agree with your definition, while I disagree with your earlier opinion that DAT falls into that category.

I don't know man. DAT is already significantly better than Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson and others with similar skill sets that went in the 1st. He's growing into an impact player IMO.

J Diddy
04-25-2015, 10:37 AM
Question...

When Dorsey says there are only 12 impact players in this draft, why does that make some think he's referencing trading down from 18?

I'd think that would indicate he's willing to move up if certain scenarios play out.

Also, I wonder if he views Dorial as one of his "possibles" as why he didn't give a definitive number and instead a range.

Personally, I think it's predraft chatter that too many people are taking as the word and final testament.

milkman
04-25-2015, 10:46 AM
I don't know man. DAT is already significantly better than Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson and others with similar skill sets that went in the 1st. He's growing into an impact player IMO.

Oh, I agree, he has shown flashes that he can grow into that, but I can not agree that he was that player in his rookie season.

staylor26
04-25-2015, 11:10 AM
Oh, I agree, he has shown flashes that he can grow into that, but I can not agree that he was that player in his rookie season.

Gotcha I agree with that. It's actually pretty amazing we were able to get a guy like him in the 4th after lesser players like those guys I mentioned go in the 1st/2nd rounds. Great job by Dorsey there.

Also, makes me question Chip Kelly even more after this offseason that he passed on DAT for Josh Huff in the 3rd last year. He can't even draft the right Oregon guys.

DaneMcCloud
04-25-2015, 11:10 AM
Oh, I agree, he has shown flashes that he can grow into that, but I can not agree that he was that player in his rookie season.

Unfortunately, like Albert Wilson, he was injured early and wasn't healthy enough to flash his abilities consistently throughout the 16 game season.

Hopefully, DAT (and Wilson) will be completely healthy in 2015 and much like Kelce in 2014, be consistent playmakers after a disappointing and injury filled rookie seasons.

Chiefshrink
04-25-2015, 11:34 AM
It's all poker play at this point fellas. 10-12 impact players is the 'standard answer' by GMs every year. GMs aren't going to show their cards, c'mon !!! We don't know what Dorsey/Reid 'really think' and the only valuable indicator is history and even that can be misleading at times as well.

Quite frankly I think we are sitting in a good spot with our many picks:thumb:

Chiefshrink
04-25-2015, 11:38 AM
Unfortunately, like Albert Wilson, he was injured early and wasn't healthy enough to flash his abilities consistently throughout the 16 game season.

This.

Cmd'r&Chief
04-25-2015, 11:44 AM
I'm surprised with how many fucktards are buying into this statement. It was press day for the GM's before the draft. Literally everything that comes out of these guys' mouths should be taken with a fine grain of salt, as they are all most likely blowing smoke screens up everyone's ass.

TEX
04-25-2015, 02:45 PM
I'm surprised with how many ****tards are buying into this statement. It was press day for the GM's before the draft. Literally everything that comes out of these guys' mouths should be taken with a fine grain of salt, as they are all most likely blowing smoke screens up everyone's ass.

This X Infinity.

TEX
04-25-2015, 02:47 PM
Oh, I agree, he has shown flashes that he can grow into that, but I can not agree that he was that player in his rookie season.

Exactly the case. Not enough to conclude otherwise - yet...

Marcellus
04-25-2015, 02:58 PM
He was talking specifically about the 1st round not the whole draft. He said there will be 32 players picked and 10-12 will be impact players.

That sort of points to him referring to immediate impact type players in the form of starters which makes sense. I imagine statistically there are only 10-12 immediate starters in each 1st round.

King_Chief_Fan
04-25-2015, 03:15 PM
He was talking specifically about the 1st round not the whole draft. He said there will be 32 players picked and 10-12 will be impact players.

That sort of points to him referring to immediate impact type players in the form of starters which makes sense. I imagine statistically there are only 10-12 immediate starters in each 1st round.

and heres to hope he gets one.

Marcellus
04-25-2015, 03:19 PM
and heres to hope he gets one.

That would mean it would have to be OL, ILB, or WR.

saphojunkie
04-25-2015, 04:00 PM
At some point you all are going to have to realize that Dorsey doesn't draft for rookies to come in and immediately impact the team. If you're wanting an impact player this season, that hope should be on Dee Ford and last year's draft class.

Whoever we take in the first (my $ is on DL or CB) is there to learn and replace a veteran next year. It's smart, and the only difference is you gave up that first year. Once you get past year one, there should always be guys that come in and make the team better. They're just sophomores.

Mav
04-25-2015, 07:14 PM
Yea but he's including Winston and Mariota both of which will be busts.


Stop. Just stop. No one who touted jff as hard as you did is allowed to forecast other qb's being busts.

Iowanian
04-27-2015, 09:46 AM
With a little luck, out of the 17 teams selecting before the Chiefs, their drone strikes will be off target leaving one of those "impact players" available.

Amnorix
04-27-2015, 09:48 AM
some team will be stupid and draft offensive linemen before us. sorry, unless it's joe thomas, orlando pace, jon ogden or walter jones, an offensive lineman isn't 'wow' in any way, shape, or form.


"Wow" excites fans, but doesn't necessarily win championships. Good bookend tackles are pretty important in the modern NFL.

Amnorix
04-27-2015, 09:49 AM
10-12 might be a little light, but I read weeks ago that a number of teams/scouts were saying that only about 15-20 guys had first round grades, really. This draft has few 1st rounders, but alot of 2nd rounders, so alot of quality is to be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, potentially.

This is all based on what I read. I'm no draftnik.

ct
04-27-2015, 10:16 AM
I'm trying to whittle a list down to 10-12 from this:

QB Winston
QB Mariota
RB Gurley
RB Gordon
WR Cooper
WR White
WR Parker
WR Strong
WR Agholor
WR Dorsett
OL Scherff
OL Peat
OL Flowers
OL Collins
OL Humphries
OL Fisher
OL Grasu
OL Cann
OL Tomlinson
OL Marpet
ED Ray*
ED Gregory
ED Dupree
ED Fowler
ED Beasley
DT Williams
DT Shelton
DT Brown
LB Kendricks
CB Waynes
CB Johnson
CB Peters

Who you crossing off as "impact" player rookie year? I'm thinking Ray is one with the injury thing..

My guess of his 12 impact players

And my next 6, considering need and fit (in order)...

CB Johnson
CB Jones
OL Peat
DT Brown
OL Flowers
WR Agholor

ARROW2
04-27-2015, 10:18 AM
yep, nobody else in this draft will become a star. Let's just see how everything plays out. I guarantee some of the bolded will be busts.

ARROW2
04-27-2015, 10:18 AM
Those who do not want DGB.......now picture him on NE, Den or Indy and hear about KC still doesn't have enough on the outside to beat those teams. Picture DGB on those teams with those QBs.....while we pick our safe CB or OL......

RealSNR
04-27-2015, 10:30 AM
Those who do not want DGB.......now picture him on NE, Den or Indy and hear about KC still doesn't have enough on the outside to beat those teams. Picture DGB on those teams with those QBs.....while we pick our safe CB or OL......

Don't be an idiot. We're going to draft WRs, and more than likely we'll have one and possibly even two in the first three rounds.

Just because we don't take DGB doesn't mean shit.

And who's the last good WR that New England has drafted that had any kind of substantial expectations placed on him when he was taken? Julian Edelman was drafted to play special teams, so he doesn't count. Wes Welker was a trade. So was Randy Moss.

Deion Branch? Troy Brown?

dlawilliams
04-27-2015, 12:13 PM
Don't be an idiot. We're going to draft WRs, and more than likely we'll have one and possibly even two in the first three rounds.

Just because we don't take DGB doesn't mean shit.

And who's the last good WR that New England has drafted that had any kind of substantial expectations placed on him when he was taken? Julian Edelman was drafted to play special teams, so he doesn't count. Wes Welker was a trade. So was Randy Moss.

Deion Branch? Troy Brown?

Terry Glenn... because Parcells had to cook the dinner but didn't get to shop for groceries

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2015, 12:57 PM
I've been an advocate for Agholor since early February, when he was considered a 2nd rounder but at this point, I'll be shocked if he gets past #18.

Some scouts have now said he's the second best receiver in the draft, just behind Cooper.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2015, 01:27 PM
Don't be an idiot. We're going to draft WRs, and more than likely we'll have one and possibly even two in the first three rounds.

Just because we don't take DGB doesn't mean shit.

And who's the last good WR that New England has drafted that had any kind of substantial expectations placed on him when he was taken? Julian Edelman was drafted to play special teams, so he doesn't count. Wes Welker was a trade. So was Randy Moss.

Deion Branch? Troy Brown?
I wouldn't count on it.

Last year i considered drafting a WR a must after we missed on WRs in FA.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2015, 02:02 PM
I wouldn't count on it.

Last year i considered drafting a WR a must after we missed on WRs in FA.

The Chiefs have ten draft picks. It would be unconscionable for Dorsey to avoid choosing a single WR at a position of such need.

Even a 4th rounder like Justin Hardy would likely push Frankie Hammond or even Junior Hemingway down the depth chart or off the team entirely.

O.city
04-27-2015, 02:26 PM
I've been an advocate for Agholor since early February, when he was considered a 2nd rounder but at this point, I'll be shocked if he gets past #18.

Some scouts have now said he's the second best receiver in the draft, just behind Cooper.

I haven't seen that from scouts, curious where you saw that, damn though, I bet he goes alot sooner than people think.

I have seen some talk that Perriman goes before parker.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2015, 02:53 PM
I haven't seen that from scouts, curious where you saw that, damn though, I bet he goes alot sooner than people think.

I have seen some talk that Perriman goes before parker.

There are tons of articles on the internet talking about him in the first. I can't recall the article I read yesterday about him slipping ahead of Parker but if I find it, I'll link it.

There are a ton on Twitter, including Albert Breer, who say that Agholor will go after Cooper and White and won't fall past Philly at #20.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/04/2015_nfl_draft_why_i_think_the_eagles_will_draft_u.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487673/article/rapoport-usc-wr-nelson-agholor-works-out-for-patriots

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/14742/my-best-bets-for-saints-at-no-31-jaelen-strong-phillip-dorsett-eric-kendricks

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/30050/nelson-agholor-building-first-round-buzz.php

Pitt Gorilla
04-27-2015, 02:56 PM
The Chiefs have ten draft picks. It would be unconscionable for Dorsey to avoid choosing a single WR at a position of such need.

Even a 4th rounder like Justin Hardy would likely push Frankie Hammond or even Junior Hemingway down the depth chart or off the team entirely.This draft, like the last one, appears to have many good WR prospects. We'd better take at least one.

BigChiefFan
04-27-2015, 03:00 PM
Trade up for White and be done with it. Give me quality over quantity any day.

The Franchise
04-27-2015, 03:01 PM
I've been an advocate for Agholor since early February, when he was considered a 2nd rounder but at this point, I'll be shocked if he gets past #18.

Some scouts have now said he's the second best receiver in the draft, just behind Cooper.

I'm on board with him at 18.

O.city
04-27-2015, 03:11 PM
There are tons of articles on the internet talking about him in the first. I can't recall the article I read yesterday about him slipping ahead of Parker but if I find it, I'll link it.

There are a ton on Twitter, including Albert Breer, who say that Agholor will go after Cooper and White and won't fall past Philly at #20.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/04/2015_nfl_draft_why_i_think_the_eagles_will_draft_u.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487673/article/rapoport-usc-wr-nelson-agholor-works-out-for-patriots

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/14742/my-best-bets-for-saints-at-no-31-jaelen-strong-phillip-dorsett-eric-kendricks

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/30050/nelson-agholor-building-first-round-buzz.php

I've seen all the first round stuff, just that he's the 2nd best wr in the draft I hadn't

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2015, 03:16 PM
I've seen all the first round stuff, just that he's the 2nd best wr in the draft I hadn't

I can't remember who made that comment but he wasn't high on White and felt he could bust.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2015, 03:25 PM
Doesn't seem like to me that White just blows defenders away.

He seems to be good at hand-fighting and pushing off though.

O.city
04-27-2015, 04:15 PM
I can't remember who made that comment but he wasn't high on White and felt he could bust.

Hmm, interesting.

I have a boner crush on white. Would love him to fall to us.

I think he's Steve Smith's in Julio Jones body

Hootie
04-27-2015, 04:19 PM
Stop. Just stop. No one who touted jff as hard as you did is allowed to forecast other qb's being busts.
It's hilarious that people still don't understand Hog Farmer is trolling ... He trolled Manziel all of last year and he's doing it again this year. Props to him for keeping character, though

prhom
04-27-2015, 04:21 PM
Just curious, does anyone think Dorsey wants to use all of our picks where they are currently? Or will he use some of the later round picks to improve our second or third round picks? It seems like 10 new players would be a lot to integrate to the team.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2015, 04:22 PM
Hmm, interesting.

I have a boner crush on white. Would love him to fall to us.

I think he's Steve Smith's in Julio Jones body

Maybe ... but i don't see the quickness of Smith or the acceleration of Jones in White.

who knows though

Mr. Laz
04-27-2015, 04:30 PM
Just curious, does anyone think Dorsey wants to use all of our picks where they are currently? Or will he use some of the later round picks to improve our second or third round picks? It seems like 10 new players would be a lot to integrate to the team.
Don't know enough about him yet.

I would think he would trade up but who knows.

ARROW2
04-27-2015, 04:54 PM
Don't be an idiot. We're going to draft WRs, and more than likely we'll have one and possibly even two in the first three rounds.

Just because we don't take DGB doesn't mean shit.

And who's the last good WR that New England has drafted that had any kind of substantial expectations placed on him when he was taken? Julian Edelman was drafted to play special teams, so he doesn't count. Wes Welker was a trade. So was Randy Moss.

Deion Branch? Troy Brown?



Let em get DGB and then get back to me....

ARROW2
04-27-2015, 04:58 PM
I get the everybody is jaded because of Baldwin but this dude would have been a top 10 pick had he played this year. He was doing work in the SEC. We have a bunch of small receivers. We need a bigger one.

Sweet Daddy Hate
04-27-2015, 05:00 PM
I want some DGB.

I want the sexy.

Dave Lane
04-28-2015, 07:28 AM
So we are taking DGB, since he will likely be the only impact player to fall to 18.

If by impact you mean cratering, then yes indeed you are accurate.

MotherfuckerJones
04-28-2015, 07:41 AM
Making excuses so you can take an olineman in round 1 are we Dorsey?

the Talking Can
04-28-2015, 07:46 AM
sounds to me like the thing you say if you really want to trade down...like, "hey, we aren't going to be in love with anyone at 18, so call us"


which is fine by me

Rausch
04-28-2015, 07:57 AM
sounds to me like the thing you say if you really want to trade down...like, "hey, we aren't going to be in love with anyone at 18, so call us"


which is fine by me

I'd prefer a trade down (perhaps adding picks for next year) over trading up.

Unless someone with insane talent falls (top 10 type talent.)

the Talking Can
04-28-2015, 08:14 AM
I'd prefer a trade down (perhaps adding picks for next year) over trading up.

Unless someone with insane talent falls (top 10 type talent.)

absolutely

Reerun_KC
04-28-2015, 08:21 AM
I'd prefer a trade down (perhaps adding picks for next year) over trading up.

Unless someone with insane talent falls (top 10 type talent.)

Same thing every year... Someone always wants to trade down vs taking an impact player in round 1....

:shake:

Rausch
04-28-2015, 08:26 AM
Same thing every year... Someone always wants to trade down vs taking an impact player in round 1....

:shake:

Because there isn't a ton of talent in this draft.

If we had traded down when we picked Fisher and added picks for the following (last) year it would have been a genius move. We would have sacrificed in a year of little talent and added in a year of the most talent in a decade.

This year there is no home run CB, ILB, or QB.

Our bigger needs don't fit the draft or position we're in this year...

Reerun_KC
04-28-2015, 09:05 AM
Because there isn't a ton of talent in this draft.

If we had traded down when we picked Fisher and added picks for the following (last) year it would have been a genius move. We would have sacrificed in a year of little talent and added in a year of the most talent in a decade.

This year there is no home run CB, ILB, or QB.

Our bigger needs don't fit the draft or position we're in this year...

Again, there isn't a ton of talent in any draft according to Chiefs fans...

Our bigger needs?

We are depleted dog shit at WR. We need a WR desperately.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 09:10 AM
Again, there isn't a ton of talent in any draft according to Chiefs fans...

Whatever. The most ignorant of fans knew how full of talent the draft was last year.

Our bigger needs?

We are depleted dog shit at WR. We need a WR desperately.

Which is why I didn't mention it. It's one of the few positions we could upgrade significantly as low as the third or fourth round...

The Franchise
04-28-2015, 09:12 AM
I'd prefer a trade down (perhaps adding picks for next year) over trading up.

Unless someone with insane talent falls (top 10 type talent.)

The only players that I'd be ok with trading up for would be Mariota, White or Cooper. And that's only if they fell out of the top 10.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 09:14 AM
The only players that I'd be ok with trading up for would be Mariota, White or Cooper. And that's only if they fell out of the top 10.

I'm not a fan of Mariota at all.

I'd prefer waiting for a guy like Petty to fall or just wait.

I'd be fine with moving up for White or Cooper (a short jump.)

Saccopoo
04-28-2015, 09:23 AM
Because there isn't a ton of talent in this draft.

If we had traded down when we picked Fisher and added picks for the following (last) year it would have been a genius move. We would have sacrificed in a year of little talent and added in a year of the most talent in a decade.

This year there is no home run CB, ILB, or QB.

Our bigger needs don't fit the draft or position we're in this year...

For Sutton's defense, there is some really solid CB prospects. Eric Rowe, PJ Williams, Jalen Collins, Josh Shaw, Byron Jones, Marcus Peters, Kevin Johnson and Trae Waynes are all first or second round talent that would fit extremely well into the system. That basically ensures that this team, if spending a first or second rounder on the CB position would get a pretty high level prospect.

ILB is solid as well and I think that the players deeper into the draft are a better fit than guys who had the hype earlier like Kendricks and Dawson, who really aren't good matches for our 34. McKinney, Vigil, Jones, Plummer, Perryman, Anthony, Wilson, Mayo, Luc, Wilson, Hager, etc. are solid players. A lot of those guys have had incredible college careers and have solid measurables.

QB? Really?

And you fail to mention WR and OL, both of which are deep with talent, especially the WR position.

prhom
04-28-2015, 09:39 AM
Same thing every year... Someone always wants to trade down vs taking an impact player in round 1....

:shake:

It's a little early to say this for sure, but Dorsey seems to have a different view of who the BPA is at a given spot than everyone else. If you can trade down and still get the guy you really wanted then what's the harm? I'd rather do that than pick a guy that everyone else thought was a reach there. The flip side is to that is whether that is the guy we should be picking or not, but if we aren't going to take the "impact" player then may as well get some value for it.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 09:40 AM
For Sutton's defense, there is some really solid CB prospects. Eric Rowe, PJ Williams, Jalen Collins, Josh Shaw, Byron Jones, Marcus Peters, Kevin Johnson and Trae Waynes are all first or second round talent that would fit extremely well into the system. That basically ensures that this team, if spending a first or second rounder on the CB position would get a pretty high level prospect.

ILB is solid as well and I think that the players deeper into the draft are a better fit than guys who had the hype earlier like Kendricks and Dawson, who really aren't good matches for our 34. McKinney, Vigil, Jones, Plummer, Perryman, Anthony, Wilson, Mayo, Luc, Wilson, Hager, etc. are solid players. A lot of those guys have had incredible college careers and have solid measurables.

I didn't say there was no talent. I said there wasn't home run talent at our bigger areas of need that justify a trade up.

I'm one of the few hoping we go CB in the first. I'd prefer one of the better WR's fall to us but I doubt that happens.

Most of the ILB talent is one dimensional. I just don't see them being worth a 1st round pick. I could be wrong but for our needs a 3rd or later for a run stuffer/gap filler is a solid fix and that position isn't as deep/respectable as you make it sound.

QB? Really?

And you fail to mention WR and OL, both of which are deep with talent, especially the WR position.

At QB I'm not in love with either guy. Winston has the talent but could go either way. If we were talking about him at 18 I'd pull the trigger in a second. If we were at no 1? I don't know.

I'd love White but not enough to trade up for what it'd cost.

If we had the no 1 pick in this draft there are 2 or 3 players I'd be ok taking...

saphojunkie
04-28-2015, 10:09 AM
What reerun fails to grasp is that the player you get at 18 is by and large going to be the same player you get at 40. Trading back and picking up a second or third round pick allows you to draft a guy like Cam Erving or Phillip Dorsett or Kevin Johnson without reaching for him. You can also hedge your bets by drafting a second (free) player.

It's the one smart thing Pioli ever did, and I (gasp) applaud him for it. He traded back, knowing he could still land Baldwin, and it got us Justin Houston. Imagine if you actually drafted a GOOD player instead of Baldwin.

Ebolapox
04-28-2015, 10:18 AM
"Wow" excites fans, but doesn't necessarily win championships. Good bookend tackles are pretty important in the modern NFL.

and you can get a good bookend for your tackle set in the rounds after round one. aka, 'wow' me by getting an impact player in the first round. it's so hard to understand sometimes as a chiefs fan, though, because we don't do that shit generally.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 10:21 AM
and you can get a good bookend for your tackle set in the rounds after round one. aka, 'wow' me by getting an impact player in the first round. it's so hard to understand sometimes as a chiefs fan, though, because we don't do that shit generally.

This. Offensive explosion wins games. Franchise QB's win games.

You can stop them for an individual game but you can't contain them for a whole season. There's a reason the Packers/Pats/Denver keep making the playoffs...

Mr. Laz
04-28-2015, 10:21 AM
wow and impact aren't necessarily the same thing


it would be nice to get both in the 1st this year

Hootie
04-28-2015, 10:56 AM
we have enough picks this year I'd prefer we actually move up if we see someone we really want in the 1st round.

RunKC
04-28-2015, 11:07 AM
we have enough picks this year I'd prefer we actually move up if we see someone we really want in the 1st round.

Peter King had us trading a 4th and 6th to move up to 15 to draft DaVante Parker.

That would be fucking awesome.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 11:26 AM
and you can get a good bookend for your tackle set in the rounds after round one. aka, 'wow' me by getting an impact player in the first round. it's so hard to understand sometimes as a chiefs fan, though, because we don't do that shit generally.

That's really untrue.

Larry Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Eric Berry, Dontarie Poe and even Dee Ford and Jonathan Baldwin were "wow" players.

Baldwin was a bust, so there's that but the Chiefs have a pretty good history, outside of the Pioli era, of getting good value and impact players in the first round.

The only "unwow" players of recent vintage were Fisher and Jackson. Glenn Dorsey was a "wow" player, too, even though he was a bust. Some thought he would be the best player in the draft, which just goes to show that nobody knows nuttin'.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 11:29 AM
Franchise QB's win games.



I'm not singling you out but I am just so tired of this bullshit.

There are maybe four "Franchise QB's" in the NFL: Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Luck. That's it. And Manning & Brady have been in the league for 12+ years.

To win a Super Bowl, a team has to be comprised of good players that play well within their system.

Effective, structured, disciplined, minimal-mistake football. "Franchise QB" is a myth created by the NFL Front Office to lure fans into thinking their team needs one to succeed, thus hyping the draft, thus more ad revenues, thus more money in the NFL coffers.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 11:33 AM
That's really untrue.

Larry Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Eric Berry, Dontarie Poe and even Dee Ford and Jonathan Baldwin were "wow" players.

Baldwin was a bust, so there's that but the Chiefs have a pretty good history, outside of the Pioli era, of getting good value and impact players in the first round.

Poe was considered a reach by many and a boom or bust player. NT's aren't "wow" players.

Berry was definitely that guy.

Dee Ford, Baldwin, and Hali were considered reaches by many. Baldwin by most.

The prospect that Berry was is in a whole different tier of player than any of the rest. Many thought Berry had HOF potential.

I think our 1st rounds the last 10 years or so have been a mixed bag but not horrible or worse that most. Definitely not as bad as our run of DL busts...

Saccopoo
04-28-2015, 11:35 AM
At QB I'm not in love with either guy. Winston has the talent but could go either way. If we were talking about him at 18 I'd pull the trigger in a second. If we were at no 1? I don't know.

I'd love White but not enough to trade up for what it'd cost.

If we had the no 1 pick in this draft there are 2 or 3 players I'd be ok taking...

I'm talking about our current situation at QB.

It would be silly for the Chiefs to take a QB in this draft.

BossChief
04-28-2015, 11:37 AM
Poe absolutely was a wow player.

At 350 he ran a 4.6 and was unreal in the weight room.

If Poe wasn't wow, nobody has ever been wow.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 11:39 AM
I'm not singling you out but I am just so tired of this bullshit.

There are maybe four "Franchise QB's" in the NFL: Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Luck. That's it. And Manning & Brady have been in the league for 12+ years.

There are probably 10 franchise QB's out there.

There are franchise guys (solid performers for 6-10 years) and then there are the elite guys.

You don't have to have an elite guy but you do need stability at the position. Rivers would be a lower end Elite or high end franchise guy. Brees, Eli, Big Ben, Ryan, Stafford, etc. All franchise guys who provide stability and competency at the position for years.

You don't need Brady. You also can't shuffle in and out back ups and cast offs every 2 to 3 years like the Chiefs/Raiders/Bengals/Cards have done for 20 years or more...

Hootie
04-28-2015, 11:40 AM
Poe didn't run a 4.6, did he?

I thought it was like a 4.9

Rausch
04-28-2015, 11:41 AM
I'm talking about our current situation at QB.

It would be silly for the Chiefs to take a QB in this draft.

I wouldn't mind Petty if he falls. I'm really not at all impressed with anyone else after the top 2 (and I'm not super impressed with either of them.)

I don't like our options behind Smith but I don't think there are any answers in this years draft either...

Hootie
04-28-2015, 11:41 AM
yeah, 4.98 seconds

where did you pull that 4.6 out of LMAO

4.6 would have been like ... even more OMG than 4.98 ... he may have been banned from the league due to sheer scariness

Rausch
04-28-2015, 11:42 AM
Poe didn't run a 4.6, did he?

I thought it was like a 4.9

Either way he was a combine commando. He did little to nothing in college. He was very raw and boom or bust...

Hootie
04-28-2015, 11:43 AM
Either way he was a combine commando. He did little to nothing in college. He was very raw and boom or bust...

I totally agree with that. I didn't like the pick based off of what happened with Vernon Gholston. But the 4.6 thing just jumped out at me ...

Rausch
04-28-2015, 11:46 AM
I totally agree with that. I didn't like the pick based off of what happened with Vernon Gholston. But the 4.6 thing just jumped out at me ...

Oh, I was completely wrong about the guy. He's been a beast.

But every arrow other than the combine pointed to possible bust.

No production in college.
HC/Coordinator that constantly moved him around.
He never had a comfort level at any position or an ability to hone technique.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 12:00 PM
Poe was considered a reach by many and a boom or bust player. NT's aren't "wow" players.

Berry was definitely that guy.

Dee Ford, Baldwin, and Hali were considered reaches by many. Baldwin by most.

The prospect that Berry was is in a whole different tier of player than any of the rest. Many thought Berry had HOF potential.

I think our 1st rounds the last 10 years or so have been a mixed bag but not horrible or worse that most. Definitely not as bad as our run of DL busts...

Reaches by morons.

They were all good to great choices.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 12:01 PM
There are probably 10 franchise QB's out there.



I wholeheartedly disagree.

There are only a couple of teams that would completely and utterly collapse without their Franchise QB and Cassel's already proven that even without Brady, Belichick can win 11 games in a season.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 12:04 PM
Either way he was a combine commando. He did little to nothing in college. He was very raw and boom or bust...

He played every snap in multiple positions along the defensive line. He went 11th overall. Anyone that thought he was a "boom or bust" guy hadn't done their homework.

Pioli clearly performed his due diligence and hit on the guy. If he hadn't, another team would now have his services and the Chiefs defense would be worse because of it.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 01:22 PM
Hmm, interesting.

I have a boner crush on white. Would love him to fall to us.

I think he's Steve Smith's in Julio Jones body

Nelson Agholor (USC): "I really think he's pretty similar to Cooper, just a little smaller. Good route runner. Good speed."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25166271/the-top-32-in-the-nfl-draft-beasley-dupree-barely-make-the-cut

Rausch
04-28-2015, 01:32 PM
He played every snap in multiple positions along the defensive line. He went 11th overall. Anyone that thought he was a "boom or bust" guy hadn't done their homework.

That would be almost everyone then.

He wasn't productive at any spot on the D line.
Moving around was a detriment to him: Pioli stated it, our DC stated it, Poe stated it.
He didn't receive good coaching at the college level. Again, stated by a number of scouts and our own team.
He was a freak talent but had little production vs. lower level competition.
Accused of taking plays off.

His combine is what boosted him from High 2nd/Lower 1st to top 15 talent.

Pioli clearly performed his due diligence and hit on the guy. If he hadn't, another team would now have his services and the Chiefs defense would be worse because of it.

Absolutely. He ended up being a great pick and I've already admitted to being wrong about the pick.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 01:37 PM
That would be almost everyone then.

He wasn't productive at any spot on the D line.
Moving around was a detriment to him: Pioli stated it, our DC stated it, Poe stated it.
He didn't receive good coaching at the college level. Again, stated by a number of scouts and our own team.
He was a freak talent but had little production vs. lower level competition.
Accused of taking plays off.

His combine is what boosted him from High 2nd/Lower 1st to top 15 talent.



You're basing this on internet "scouts" like Walter, who still compared him to Haloti Ngata. Poe was on everyone's radar and his Combine pushed him into the Top 15.

Anyone that said he was "boom or bust", didn't do their homework.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 01:40 PM
I wholeheartedly disagree.

There are only a couple of teams that would completely and utterly collapse without their Franchise QB and Cassel's already proven that even without Brady, Belichick can win 11 games in a season.

We can argue about who is or isn't a franchise QB but the point is I don't think you need a top 5 guy to win it all.

You clearly don't.

I do think your best chance to win it all is to have multiple swings at it. Having 4 or 5 straight years in the playoffs helps, and having the same QB for that period of time helps even more...

Marcellus
04-28-2015, 02:07 PM
Every draft discussion I have heard the last 2 days has said that after the top 15 -16 players none of the rest have 1st round talent.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 02:21 PM
You're basing this on internet "scouts" like Walter, who still compared him to Haloti Ngata. Poe was on everyone's radar and his Combine pushed him into the Top 15.

Anyone that said he was "boom or bust", didn't do their homework.

Poe was originally perceived as "the ideal two-gap 3–4 nose tackle" due to his massive frame,[23] but former NFL defensive lineman John Thornton described Poe as "more of a move guy than a big space eater," able to play in a 4–3 defense, too.[24] However, Thornton also uttered concerns over Poe's mediocre college career. According to Jonathan Bales of the New York Times, Poe was "the ultimate boom-or-bust prospect—loaded with potential, but failing to capitalize on it in college."[25] The Sporting News compared Poe to Ryan Sims and Jimmy Kennedy, two highly selected lineman who "were immensely talented yet struggled because of inconsistent effort and competitiveness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontari_Poe

I can't sit here and tell you what went through the minds of NFL GM's and scouts. I don't know.

It depends on if the Mayock, Kiper, or McShay's of the world are valid commentators on draft talent. There are sources they say they talked to but we either trust them or not.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this. He worked out - it was a solid pick. I guess the point is it was a very brave pick because there was risk there...

Rausch
04-28-2015, 02:23 PM
We can argue about who is or isn't a franchise QB but the point is I don't think you need a top 5 guy to win it all.

You clearly don't.

I do think your best chance to win it all is to have multiple swings at it. Having 4 or 5 straight years in the playoffs helps, and having the same QB for that period of time helps even more...

I don't know if I'd agree with that.

I do think the top end talent isn't as high. I guess there's just not that guy I'd be willing to make a "trade the future" pick for. Not even a guy I'd be tempted to do it for...

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 02:37 PM
Every draft discussion I have heard the last 2 days has said that after the top 15 -16 players none of the rest have 1st round talent.

And out of those 15-16 players, maybe five will make an immediate impact.

Go back and look at 2013 & 2014's first rounders. QB's not withstanding, it's pretty putrid, especially 2013.

The best first rounder in the past two drafts, IMO, is Odell Beckham, jr.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 02:39 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontari_Poe

I can't sit here and tell you what went through the minds of NFL GM's and scouts. I don't know.

It depends on if the Mayock, Kiper, or McShay's of the world are valid commentators on draft talent. There are sources they say they talked to but we either trust them or not.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this. He worked out - it was a solid pick. I guess the point is it was a very brave pick because there was risk there...

Keep in mind, they're not experts, nor are they scouts. They're journalists that just follow up leads.

More and more scouts are beginning to anonymously give their opinions. Take a look at this scout's opinion of the available 2015 draftees. He doesn't even believe that Vic Beasley is worthy of a first rounder, yet he's Top Five on everyone's mock draft.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25166271/the-top-32-in-the-nfl-draft-beasley-dupree-barely-make-the-cut

xztop123
04-28-2015, 02:50 PM
Who cares what Dorsey says

Ballard is callign the shots in this draft. Dorsey is just talking to the media and setting up meetings

xztop123
04-28-2015, 02:54 PM
Chiefs first is either Perriman or Devante Parker with a very outside shot of DGB

milkman
04-28-2015, 03:12 PM
Keep in mind, they're not experts, nor are they scouts. They're journalists that just follow up leads.

More and more scouts are beginning to anonymously give their opinions. Take a look at this scout's opinion of the available 2015 draftees. He doesn't even believe that Vic Beasley is worthy of a first rounder, yet he's Top Five on everyone's mock draft.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25166271/the-top-32-in-the-nfl-draft-beasley-dupree-barely-make-the-cut

If he had talked to another scout, he would most likely have gotten a different board.

milkman
04-28-2015, 03:14 PM
I'm not singling you out but I am just so tired of this bullshit.

There are maybe four "Franchise QB's" in the NFL: Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Luck. That's it. And Manning & Brady have been in the league for 12+ years.

To win a Super Bowl, a team has to be comprised of good players that play well within their system.

Effective, structured, disciplined, minimal-mistake football. "Franchise QB" is a myth created by the NFL Front Office to lure fans into thinking their team needs one to succeed, thus hyping the draft, thus more ad revenues, thus more money in the NFL coffers.

To consistently compete, year in and year out for a decade or more, you need a QB.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 03:19 PM
If he had talked to another scout, he would most likely have gotten a different board.

Yep, most likely. But I do think it's interesting how a scout, who's armed with all of a team's information, not just what's available on film and public record, can differ so much from the mockers.

I'm not trying to denigrate or vilify those that aren't privy to that info, just pointing out how different it can and may be from those who don't have all of the info about players at hand.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2015, 03:22 PM
To consistently compete, year in and year out for a decade or more, you need a QB.

A good QB? Sure. But a "once in a generation talent"?

I'm of the opinion that once Brady and Manning retire (in 2020 or whenever), the league will look very, very different because all of the true arm talent is heading to baseball, not football.

Outside of Luck and Rodgers, I can't think of one guy that will mean as much to his franchise as Manning did to Indy or Brady to New England.

Rausch
04-28-2015, 03:26 PM
Yep, most likely. But I do think it's interesting how a scout, who's armed with all of a team's information, not just what's available on film and public record, can differ so much from the mockers.

I'm not trying to denigrate or vilify those that aren't privy to that info, just pointing out how different it can and may be from those who don't have all of the info about players at hand.

Even with anonymous scouts telling their rankings we'll never know how much is true and how much is them wanting to skew the view...

BossChief
04-28-2015, 03:37 PM
Also, I'd be willing to bet that most of the Kipers, McShays and whatnots take money from agents of prospects to help the players stock.

It's the season to not believe a single thing you read about the draft.

Marcellus
04-28-2015, 08:32 PM
And out of those 15-16 players, maybe five will make an immediate impact.

Go back and look at 2013 & 2014's first rounders. QB's not withstanding, it's pretty putrid, especially 2013.

The best first rounder in the past two drafts, IMO, is Odell Beckham, jr.

Yea its not been a great draft for a few years. Fact is not many impact players have been drafted lately.

Beckam is a fucking beast for sure and may be the best player drafted since Luck.

Marcellus
04-28-2015, 08:33 PM
Also, I'd be willing to bet that most of the Kipers, McShays and whatnots take money from agents of prospects to help the players stock.

It's the season to not believe a single thing you read about the draft.

So what motivation would they have to say after the first 15-16 players this year there isn't any 1st round talent? Seems counter to what you are implying.