Buyer Beware ... Cornerbacks

[Mr. Laz]

CFF Overview: CB – Buyer Beware
Gordon McGuinness | April 17, 2015
CFF-overview-CB-beware

As we continue to look through the mass of CFF data we have collected, we’re turning our attention to cornerbacks. After bringing you the top of the crop and sleepers earlier in the week we now turn our attention to the Buyer Beware section.

The top of this cornerback class is filled with question marks and you can still find players 10-15 spots deep that aren’t too far away from the guys at the top. That means the guys at the top come with the added question mark of how much of a gamble you are taking by spending a high draft pick on them. So here are five players who we think teams should be wary of in the NFL draft.

Trae Waynes, Michigan St.

Waynes is regarded by many as the top cornerback in this class and at times it’s easy to see why. He has speed to burn and shows confidence, never looking worried about being beaten deep. He also holds the point well against a block and performs well against the run. Despite all that, though, there are some question marks that make him a risk to be selected as high as many are predicting.

His awareness at times is questionable, and there are times when he lost the ball in the air by focusing too much on the wide receiver in front of him. Those lapses leave him flapping after noticing the ball in the air, leading to contact which could lead to more flags in the NFL. His tackling can also be a bit suspect as he has a tendency to throw himself at tackles in space, a little bit like Asante Samuel, rather than wrapping up. That’s something that will cost him a few big plays when he misses, and something he must clean up in the NFL.

Signature stat: Missed a tackle once every 8.3 attempts.

Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest

CFF-inset-kevin-johnsonJohnson is also regarded as a first-round draft pick by many, but in a similar way to Justin Hardy at wide receiver he’s someone that neither myself nor Sam see the hype with. He does have great balance which stops him from being beaten immediately off the line where so much damage can be done, but there are too many question marks in the rest of his game.

He doesn’t possess great top-level speed on the field. This will lead to him losing plenty of one-on-one battles with NFL receivers and at times it looked like he was deliberately playing off to protect his speed. The need to jump up from there and attack under routes led to him being beaten on double moves on more than one occasion. Like Waynes, he too can be a bit of a sloppy tackler at times, tilting his head down and trying to tackle blind far too often which led to 10 misses last season.

Signature Stat: Missed a tackle once every 5.1 attempted, tied for the ninth-worst of all draft-eligible cornerbacks in this class.

P.J. Williams, Florida St.

CFF-inset-pj-williamsWilliams is arguably the most frustrating cornerback in this draft class and is the perfect example of how subset scouting can lead to a guy being overhyped. In his best games, he looked very good when getting his hands on a wide receiver early and attacked the run and screen passes aggressively, launching himself through blockers.

The problem with Williams is inconsistency. As good as he looked against Louisville and DeVante Parker, he played very poorly against Syracuse, North Carolina State, and Georgia Tech. Very good when he gets his hands on a receiver, but as soon as he loses direct contact he struggles, something that will be a big issue in the NFL. Like the previous two we mentioned, he missed too many tackles in 2014. It’s not something he doesn’t look capable of, but poor technique such as arm tackles and trying to swat at the ball when he’s in a bad position give him big problems.

Signature Stat: Williams allowed a quarterback rating of 100.0 on all passes thrown into his coverage.

Eric Rowe, Utah

CFF-inset-roweRowe is a cornerback who divides opinion, with some seeing him as a better prospect at safety than cornerback, while others think he’s a better fit at the position he played during his final season in college. One thing you can say for Rowe is he’s very strong. In the Washington State game he was too physical for the receivers he went up against and made life miserable for them. He’s physical enough that he makes contested catches tough on wide receivers, and works best in press-man when he’s able to get his hands on the wide receiver.

The problem with Rowe is he looks very uncomfortable in off-coverage at times, looking lost and struggling to get a feel for everything around him. He also struggles with recovery speed so when he loses at the line of scrimmage he’s in trouble. Any success he has in the NFL will come from being able to get a good jam on wide receivers at the line of scrimmage unless he can improve his work in off-coverage.

Signature Stat: Was targeted once every 6.6 snaps in coverage.



College Football Focus Home Page

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/17/cff-overview-cb-buyer-beware/

[cdcox]

These are all huge warning signs.

[thabear04]

Already posted. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=291950

[Urc Burry]

Marcus Peters is going to be lockdown and is who I want

[Mr. Laz]

Already posted. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=291950

many people don't hang out in the draft section

a lot of the people in the draft section don't want more people in there

no Q's for the fucking draft section

[Meatloaf]

many people don't hang out in the draft section

a lot of the people in the draft section don't want more people in there

no Q's for the ****ing draft section

Laz, I too have the impression that some folks in the draft section don't really want more people in there. BUT, I go there anyway! Unless I'm mistaken, we can all play in all of the CP sandboxes, so please don't let a few bullies sway where you/we go play.

Anyway, thanks for the posting as it supports my position on this year's CBs....and of course, I endorse anything that supports my position.

See you in the Draft Section! :thumb:

[Mr. Laz]

Laz, I too have the impression that some folks in the draft section don't really want more people in there. BUT, I go there anyway! Unless I'm mistaken, we can all play in all of the CP sandboxes, so please don't let a few bullies sway where you/we go play.

Anyway, thanks for the posting as it supports my position on this year's CBs....and of course, I endorse anything that supports my position.

See you in the Draft Section! :thumb:
not an impression at all

They have come out and said they only want certain people in their draft threads. Also why they don't want the draft in the main lounge during draft time either.

draft snobs only want to talk to other draft snobs

:shrug:

i don't care, fuck'em

just don't be let me hear in Q bullshit about the fucking draft forum.

[thabear04]

Not trying to give you a hard time Laz I respect a lot of you guys in here.

[Saulbadguy]

READER BEWARE

LAZ POST

[TribalElder]

There's a draft section?

LMAO j/k

[RealSNR]

Didn't see Marcus Peters on the list.

That's because I love him more than any player since Geno Smith.

I want him inside me













...team's locker room. Which is what I would say if I were an Irishman.

[TambaBerry]

not an impression at all

They have come out and said they only want certain people in their draft threads. Also why they don't want the draft in the main lounge during draft time either.

draft snobs only want to talk to other draft snobs

:shrug:

i don't care, fuck'em

just don't be let me hear in Q bullshit about the fucking draft forum.

Is this true? I've been posting in the draft section since I was new and never had a problem

[ChiefsCountry]

Is this true? I've been posting in the draft section since I was new and never had a problem

Laz is a whiny cunt, nothing new to see here.

[O.city]

Laz volcanic period?

[xztop123]

I like Waynes, not as interested in Rowe. The rest are not top round guys to me.

We might as well draft Rowe if that analysis is correct. Since we literally play press 90 + % of the time, more than any team i've seen

[DaneMcCloud]

Personally, I don't like any of the mocked first or second rounders. I'd rather see the Chiefs develop a Day 3 player than take one early.

[Bowser]

Personally, I don't like any of the mocked first or second rounders. I'd rather see the Chiefs develop a Day 3 player than take one early.

It's going to happen. Look at Dorsey's first two years with us and his first rounders. Fisher for Albert and Ford for Hali. We're getting someone for Sean Smith in the first.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's going to happen. Look at Dorsey's first two years with us and his first rounders. Fisher for Albert and Ford for Hali. We're getting someone for Sean Smith in the first.

I have to disagree. I don't think that the available CB's meet Dorsey's criteria. Each of them have holes in their game and won't be ready to start immediately. None of them are over 6'1, let alone, 6'3 nor do they have the length he desires.

He can worry about a starting CB in 2016. I think there are far too many pressing needs than to take a guy that doesn't "fit" in the first. I also believe it'll be tough for him to pass up a game changing WR or ILBer, both of whom should be available at #18.

[Bowser]

I have to disagree. I don't think that the available CB's meet Dorsey's criteria. Each of them have holes in their game and won't be ready to start immediately. None of them are over 6'1, let alone, 6'3 nor do they have the length he desires.

He can worry about a starting CB in 2016. I think there are far too many pressing needs than to take a guy that doesn't "fit" in the first. I also believe it'll be tough for him to pass up a game changing WR or ILBer, both of whom should be available at #18.

Trust me, I'm with you, but I have my fears. NOBODY saw us taking Dee Ford last year, and I'm thinking nobody is going to see us taking some corner this year.

Frankly I don't understand how they could pass on one of the many receivers bound to still be there at #18, or like you said a 'backer. We'll see.

[DaneMcCloud]

Trust me, I'm with you, but I have my fears. NOBODY saw us taking Dee Ford last year, and I'm thinking nobody is going to see us taking some corner this year.

I wasn't around here this time last year but Ford was one of the guys I thought Dorsey might take and I was happy when he was chosen. Productive edge pass rushers are a hot commodity and with Ford sitting there at #23, it was a no brainer. It's unlikely there will be a guy at #18 with Ford's pedigree.

It'll be interesting to see what happens Thursday but it's difficult for me to envision Dorsey taking a player that won't be an immediate starter, whether it's right tackle, WR or ILB. I'd be dumbfounded if he took a guy that will sit on the bench for a year, waiting, when an immediate need can be filled well.

I'm still on the fence as to whether he'll take a WR in the first. I think it depends on how much he likes Wilson outside and if he does, he might wait until the second to take a slot receiver that will eventually, if not immediately, take time from Avant.

[Rausch]

It'll be interesting to see what happens Thursday but it's difficult for me to envision Dorsey taking a player that won't be an immediate starter, whether it's right tackle, WR or ILB. I'd be dumbfounded if he took a guy that will sit on the bench for a year, waiting, when an immediate need can be filled well.


Really?

Hell, I expect it. He did it last year and he's repeatedly stated he'll take the best talent he thinks is there regardless of position or need...

[Rausch]

It's going to happen. Look at Dorsey's first two years with us and his first rounders. Fisher for Albert and Ford for Hali. We're getting someone for Sean Smith in the first.

We need someone to compliment him - not replace him. We have nothing opposite him...

[Chiefnj2]

not an impression at all

They have come out and said they only want certain people in their draft threads. Also why they don't want the draft in the main lounge during draft time either.

draft snobs only want to talk to other draft snobs

:shrug:

i don't care, ****'em

just don't be let me hear in Q bullshit about the ****ing draft forum.

Yearning for the return of the drafturbators?

[the Talking Can]

Didn't see Marcus Peters on the list.

That's because I love him more than any player since Geno Smith.

I want him inside me












...team's locker room. Which is what I would say if I were an Irishman.

i'd like to make that a threesome...

[the Talking Can]

not an impression at all

They have come out and said they only want certain people in their draft threads. Also why they don't want the draft in the main lounge during draft time either.

draft snobs only want to talk to other draft snobs

:shrug:

i don't care, ****'em

just don't be let me hear in Q bullshit about the ****ing draft forum.


i always thought you were posting from a middle school cafeteria...

[Saccopoo]

I have to disagree. I don't think that the available CB's meet Dorsey's criteria.

Actually, Eric Rowe hits every single mark that Dorsey looks for in a prospect.

I wouldn't be overly shocked if he's selected in the first and it's a no-brainer in the second.

[Chiefnj2]

i'd like to make that a threesome...

Not concerned with his character?

It's hard to get kicked out of a major conference and program. It's nearly impossible to do it when you are a star player. He must have some serious issues to draw the ire of two different staffs.

[Rausch]

Actually, Eric Rowe hits every single mark that Dorsey looks for in a prospect.

I wouldn't be overly shocked if he's selected in the first and it's a no-brainer in the second.

I'm fine with that...

[the Talking Can]

Not concerned with his character?

It's hard to get kicked out of a major conference and program. It's nearly impossible to do it when you are a star player. He must have some serious issues to draw the ire of two different staffs.

nope...this team can handle one or two knuckleheads, imo

if he's the Dez Bryant of CBs, that's fine by me

[Al Bundy]

Rowe is a Safety at the next level.

[Saccopoo]

Rowe is a Safety at the next level.

Not for this team.

And, IMO, he's a better CB at the same level in the same system as Sean Smith was.

His initial jam is near perfect and he's got better turn and flip than Smith at the same stage.

[Rausch]

Not for this team.

And, IMO, he's a better CB at the same level in the same system as Sean Smith was.

His initial jam is near perfect and he's got better turn and flip than Smith at the same stage.

Their negatives are pretty similar if you ask me...

[Saccopoo]

Their negatives are pretty similar if you ask me...

I've watched them both in college and Rowe has better potential at CB than Smith - for this system. He's terrific in press man and keeps a better/closer distance than Smith, who tends to overly rely on his length for recovery.

[Rausch]

I've watched them both in college and Rowe has better potential at CB than Smith - for this system. He's terrific in press man and keeps a better/closer distance than Smith, who tends to overly rely on his length for recovery.

Rowe probably has more raw talent (from what I've read.) Both have questions playing off (which I'm not a fan of anyway.)

[Mr. Laz]

I've watched them both in college and Rowe has better potential at CB than Smith - for this system. He's terrific in press man and keeps a better/closer distance than Smith, who tends to overly rely on his length for recovery.

do we want 2 sean smiths or do we need a guy that can handle more speed?

[DaneMcCloud]

Actually, Eric Rowe hits every single mark that Dorsey looks for in a prospect.

I wouldn't be overly shocked if he's selected in the first and it's a no-brainer in the second.

Well' IMO, #18 ON Rowe is a waste of a resource. I'd certainly rather have Parker or Agholor or Kendricks and (gulp) I'd be better with a long term investment at right tackle with Flowers or Collins than Rowe.

I'm not so sure about a trade down, either, unless there was a 2nd involved next year and most definitely a third this year. Even then, the Chiefs would need to be able to jump into the upper half of the second round in order to get a player better than what they could in the third this year.

If the Chiefs could position themselves with a trade down to get three guys in the top 60 this year, I'd be all for it although history says it's rare that all of those players become productive.

Look at Minnesota 2013 for proof, or just about any BB draft.

Quantity doesn't equal quality.

[O.city]

I'd like to have more darts to throw at the board, but they can't trade out of the 1st and lose the 5th year option.

[DJ's left nut]

I've watched them both in college and Rowe has better potential at CB than Smith - for this system. He's terrific in press man and keeps a better/closer distance than Smith, who tends to overly rely on his length for recovery.

Pretty spot-on analysis.

Smith knows he isn't terribly fast but he also knows he's a goddamn giant in relation to his peers. He'll often look beat only to reach up and flick a ball away because of his length. I noticed it the very first time I saw him in training camp - it's a technique for him. It's not something I'd recommend.

I don't love Rowe because I do think he's athletically a little limited. I worry that smaller/quicker WRs will give him fits because I just don't see how he hangs with them. That said, he does appear to be a very nice fit for our system. If he gets his hands on those waterbug types, he'll just swallow them right up because of his physicality.

His quickness measurables all timed extremely well so perhaps I'm just seeing some stiffness that isn't there. If that's the case, he has every tool you could want for this system. My eyes have lied to me before.

Corners are about the riskiest position in the draft anymore, IMO. That said, I like the idea of aggressively targeting one here. Sure, he could bust but that is just the nature of the beast with CBs. If Gaines/Fleming are demonstrations of Dorsey's eye for CBs, then I'm pretty comfortable deferring to him on his CB decision.

[DJ's left nut]

do we want 2 sean smiths or do we need a guy that can handle more speed?

My eyes agree with you here but the stopwatch doesn't.

It's dangerous to put too much faith in the underwear olympics, but Rowe timed in the top 1/3 for his 40 time and in the top 15% for his 3 cone and 20 yrd shuttle times. His broad jump was in the top 1/4 and his vertical jump in the top 20% as well. His Bench was top 20%.

So his quickness numbers are very good (SS and 3-cone) and his long speed is above average (40). His explosion appears to be pretty good based on his broad and vertical jumps and his bench was very good. At 6'1 with 31 inch arms he's going to have a wider coverage radius than most corners and at 200+ lbs he's going to be solid in run-support.

Physically the guy really does nail it, or at least he did at the combine. But he's one of those guys that I just don't quite see it on the tape. Again, it's possible I'm just not being fair to him because he's a converted safety so I expect to see a guy with less athletic ability. I will concede that I have no answer for the disconnect between what I see and what the stopwatch seems to show.

[Rausch]

I don't love Rowe because I do think he's athletically a little limited. I worry that smaller/quicker WRs will give him fits because I just don't see how he hangs with them. That said, he does appear to be a very nice fit for our system. If he gets his hands on those waterbug types, he'll just swallow them right up because of his physicality.

Isn't Gaines our slot/nickel CB?

And with Gaines back there I like having a more physical duo on the outside...

[The Franchise]

Isn't Gaines our slot/nickel CB?

And with Gaines back there I like having a more physical duo on the outside...

If we drafted a CB early? I would assume that Gaines would be our nickle CB. If we don't....then I'm assuming that they think Gaines could be the starter opposite of Smith.

[Rausch]

My eyes agree with you here but the stopwatch doesn't.

It's dangerous to put too much faith in the underwear olympics, but Rowe timed in the top 1/3 for his 40 time and in the top 15% for his 3 cone and 20 yrd shuttle times. His broad jump was in the top 1/4 and his vertical jump in the top 20% as well. His Bench was top 20%.

So his quickness numbers are very good (SS and 3-cone) and his long speed is above average (40). His explosion appears to be pretty good based on his broad and vertical jumps and his bench was very good. At 6'1 with 31 inch arms he's going to have a wider coverage radius than most corners and at 200+ lbs he's going to be solid in run-support.

Physically the guy really does nail it, or at least he did at the combine. But he's one of those guys that I just don't quite see it on the tape. Again, it's possible I'm just not being fair to him because he's a converted safety so I expect to see a guy with less athletic ability. I will concede that I have no answer for the disconnect between what I see and what the stopwatch seems to show.

Much of it depends on how he responds to coaching and continuing to learn the position.

A short, slower guy like Flowers still played well in a press scheme after Herm's Cover 2 left town. He was a solid tackler and surprising press player.

We'd all love a blazing fast CB who could house it but it's not a must. In fact, it's less of a must with our pass rush...

[DJ's left nut]

Isn't Gaines our slot/nickel CB?

And with Gaines back there I like having a more physical duo on the outside...

More and more I expect that teams are going to be creative with their WRs and try to force matchup problems by putting conventional slot WRs all throughout the formation.

I don't think you can just expect that your outside corners won't have to deal with the DATs of the world. Even a guy like Donnie Avery would strike me as someone that Rowe might struggle with. Someone that can give him a quick deke to get inside him and then run away from him as he struggles with his hip-turn and acceleration.

The NFL is a harsh world - if you have a clear weakness, teams will do everything they can to exploit it. If a guy like Rowe is struggling with quick WRs, teams will try to create a matchup that puts their waterbug matched up with him.

[Mr. Laz]

My eyes agree with you here but the stopwatch doesn't.

It's dangerous to put too much faith in the underwear olympics, but Rowe timed in the top 1/3 for his 40 time and in the top 15% for his 3 cone and 20 yrd shuttle times. His broad jump was in the top 1/4 and his vertical jump in the top 20% as well. His Bench was top 20%.

So his quickness numbers are very good (SS and 3-cone) and his long speed is above average (40). His explosion appears to be pretty good based on his broad and vertical jumps and his bench was very good. At 6'1 with 31 inch arms he's going to have a wider coverage radius than most corners and at 200+ lbs he's going to be solid in run-support.

Physically the guy really does nail it, or at least he did at the combine. But he's one of those guys that I just don't quite see it on the tape. Again, it's possible I'm just not being fair to him because he's a converted safety so I expect to see a guy with less athletic ability. I will concede that I have no answer for the disconnect between what I see and what the stopwatch seems to show.
I worry about the TY Hilton's of the world.

They just start running crossing routes/stop and go's and we just don't have the speed to keep up with them.

[O.city]

I still like peters at corner

[DaneMcCloud]

I worry about the TY Hilton's of the world.

They just start running crossing routes/stop and go's and we just don't have the speed to keep up with them.

That's only because the Chiefs linebackers can't cover. You put a guy like Eric Kendricks in there and it all stops.

Look at Denver in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks. Their ILBers can cover and disrupt crossing and wheel routes, which resulted in shutting down Denver's offense.

It's all about the ILBers, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

I worry about the TY Hilton's of the world.

They just start running crossing routes/stop and go's and we just don't have the speed to keep up with them.

I guess the answer is Ron Parker.

Sure, we're a little slower at CB than most but Parker's much faster than what most teams have at S. Most teams only have one true burner on the field so Parker could shade towards a guy like Hilton and if he's running a stop and go, Parker needs to be there over the top.

As for the crossing routes, well those are a pain in the ass for anyone. Ultimately I think your LBs are going to have a fair amount of responsibility to contain the short crosses and long-crossing routes should be dealt with by the pass-rush; they just take awhile to develop.

And again - timing. The Chiefs utilize the press-man with the idea that they don't really have to run with these guys on the crossing routes, they just have to get their hands on them and knock them off their routes.

[O.city]

DJ, I think the problem with drafting corners isn't so much due to measurable s but more so with technique.

Stopping a cross or post or shutting down a good route runner is more so about technique paired with said measurables. These guys have relied on athleticism in college and there generally aren't great route runners in college or dumbed down route trees make it easier.

So while I do love measurables, I'd me Leary to draft based on them without any or much technique and/or instincts.

Apparently, based on last seasons success, we have great secondary coaching so maybe take the high athlete and train him. I dunno

[Rausch]

And again - timing. The Chiefs utilize the press-man with the idea that they don't really have to run with these guys on the crossing routes, they just have to get their hands on them and knock them off their routes.

And rarely is that very long due to Hali/Poe/Houston. Our pass rush murders most O lines.

Only rare QB's like Manning or a sloppy $3itty field @ Oakland really had any answer for it...

[O.city]

Option routes are so damn hard to cover. A lot of that has to be recognition due to tendencies.

It's why I'm coming around to the Dorset at 18 hype

[Mr. Laz]

And rarely is that very long due to Hali/Poe/Houston. Our pass rush murders most O lines.

Only rare QB's like Manning or a sloppy $3itty field @ Oakland really had any answer for it...
but that's just it, we need to figure out how to beat those QB's if we are going to win a playoff game

You get a QB that throws quick or can move around a little be to avoid our rush for a few seconds and we are shredded if our corners can't keep up on crossing routes.

[Rausch]

but that's just it, we need to figure out how to beat those QB's if we are going to win a playoff game

You get a QB that throws quick or can move around a little be to avoid our rush for a few seconds and we are shredded if our corners can't keep up on crossing routes.

Manning was the only QB that had any answer for our rush.

Brady didn't. Wilson didn't. Kap didn't. The second Raider game showed just how much the field condition slowed our rush and not the talent/scheme.

Manning is really the only guy who's proven he can consistently best this pass rush. I'd argue Rodgers can as well, but that's it.

[Mr. Laz]

Manning was the only QB that had any answer for our rush.

Brady didn't. Wilson didn't. Kap didn't. The second Raider game showed just how much the field condition slowed our rush and not the talent/scheme.

Manning is really the only guy who's proven he can consistently best this pass rush. I'd argue Rodgers can as well, but that's it.

manning = 2 losses this year and a kick from the playoffs if we reach them

seems like Colts figured it out too in the 2nd half

[Rausch]

manning = 2 losses this year and a kick from the playoffs if we reach them

seems like Colts figured it out too in the 2nd half

The first game we held them to 7 pts in the 2nd half.
The second game we held them to 9 pts in the 2nd half.

Our offense wasted opportunities in both games and didn't score. We also started slowly and allowed them to score in the first half.

We need to start fast. I don't know how many games last year we just didn't do much of anything for the first half on offense. Our offense didn't move the chains and didn't sustain drives. We had ZERO big play ability at the WR position and couldn't hang in a shoot out...

[Chiefnj2]

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

[Rausch]

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

There are only two ILBer's worthy of top 49 picks for the Chiefs system, IMO: Kendricks and Anthony. It's likely that a plug & play receiver will be available at #49, so an ILBer at #18 wouldn't be shocking in the least.

Reid drafted his brother, who's been an outstanding pro, and Kendricks has all of the measurable and qualities to be a very good ILB in the NFL.

[The Franchise]

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

Trade for Mychal Kendricks. Problem solved.

[DaneMcCloud]

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

I think Kendrick and Anthony will both be better, immediately, than any version of DJ from 2005-2009.

The Chiefs don't need a "Thumper". They need two athletic, smart ILBer's like the Seahawks have in Smith and Wagner.

[Rausch]

The Chiefs don't need a "Thumper". They need two athletic, smart ILBer's like the Seahawks have in Smith and Wagner.

For our 3-4 we definitely do need a thumper...

[O.city]

No. They don't.

It's not 1995.

They need athletes who can run and not have to come off he field on 3rd down.

[DaKCMan AP]

2016 CB class is better.

Vernon Hargreaves
Kendall Fuller
Cam Sutton
Eric Murray

[DaneMcCloud]

For our 3-4 we definitely do need a thumper...

I think that's only because they haven't been able to acquire the right pieces.

They had high hopes for JMJ but he hasn't been the Malcolm Smith type guy they had hoped for initially. They're looking for guys like Smith and Wagner and once they acquire them, look out. This defense will be Top 5, at least.

[Warpaint69]

I think Kendrick and Anthony will both be better, immediately, than any version of DJ from 2005-2009.

The Chiefs don't need a "Thumper". They need two athletic, smart ILBer's like the Seahawks have in Smith and Wagner.

My thoughts as well. Would love to have 2 ILB's that can play all 3 downs.

[Bowser]

For our 3-4 we definitely do need a thumper...

Eh, I don't necessarily disagree, but in today's practical run-n-shoot NFL, ILB'ers that are mobile and can cover are every bit as important as the Levon Kirkland types that are there essentially to stop the run.

[Rausch]

No. They don't.

It's not 1995.

They need athletes who can run and not have to come off he field on 3rd down.

I doubt we keep 4 LB's on the field on 3rd down.

[Al Bundy]

Not for this team.

And, IMO, he's a better CB at the same level in the same system as Sean Smith was.

His initial jam is near perfect and he's got better turn and flip than Smith at the same stage.

He is a safety in the NFL.....

[DaneMcCloud]

I doubt we keep 4 LB's on the field on 3rd down.

If the Chiefs had the "right" ILBers, then absolutely, they'd be on the field for all three downs.

It's been their Achilles Heel (pardon the pun, DJ) for the past decade or more: ILBer's that can't cover TE's or slants and wheel routes.

[Rausch]

If the Chiefs had the "right" ILBers, then absolutely, they'd be on the field for all three downs.

It's been their Achilles Heel (pardon the pun, DJ) for the past decade or more: ILBer's that can't cover TE's or slants and wheel routes.

It depends on what DJ comes back like. If he's almost his old self we'll be fine there. With our pass rush and the addition of another corner at some point in the draft that should hopefully keep our pass D in the tops of the NFL.

I think it's much more important to keep teams from being able to run it down our throats. That running game tires and slows the pass rush...

[RunKC]

That's only because the Chiefs linebackers can't cover. You put a guy like Eric Kendricks in there and it all stops.

Look at Denver in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks. Their ILBers can cover and disrupt crossing and wheel routes, which resulted in shutting down Denver's offense.

It's all about the ILBers, IMO.

I agree. I can also see Paul Dawson being an option. He ran a 4.75 at his pro day and he plays fast.

The guy understands how to play In coverage and he can shed OL.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Waynes' shuttle is slower than his 40. Has that EVER happened with a CB previously? Do not want.

[Saccopoo]

I agree. I can also see Paul Dawson being an option. He ran a 4.75 at his pro day and he plays fast.

The guy understands how to play In coverage and he can shed OL.

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/Patsilentbob/Patsilentbob001/ExpandingFacepalm_zps26ddfb10.gif

[DaneMcCloud]

It depends on what DJ comes back like. If he's almost his old self we'll be fine there. With our pass rush and the addition of another corner at some point in the draft that should hopefully keep our pass D in the tops of the NFL.

I think it's much more important to keep teams from being able to run it down our throats. That running game tires and slows the pass rush...

He's still 32 years old. The Chiefs need to find his successor, whether it's this draft or next year.

[Easy 6]

I'm seeing Dane and some others make a pretty good case for a guy like Kendricks, its kinda starting to sway me.

Pro - my draft guides are a mix of "an instinctive, aggressive, sure tackler with the speed and fluid athleticism to turn and run with with most tight ends", sounds great for handling the aforementioned crossing routes.

Hey, sounds pretty ****ing good to me, but...

Con - 6'0 230, does he have the kind of frame to handle another ten pounds? I dont wanna see Donnie Edwards being dragged all over the field again.

Perryman intrigues me too, he's short at 5'11 but love descriptors like "very active sideline to sideline, sheds blockers, good instincts, a very violent tackler... like that part in particular, this defense still needs a dude that plays with very bad intentions.