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View Full Version : Food and Drink Nomex BBQ Smoker Gaskets?


gblowfish
06-04-2015, 10:03 AM
I've got a Weber GSM smoker. It does a pretty good job, but it leaks smoke around the lid and from the fire door. Thinking about buying this kit:

http://www.amazon.com/Gasket-Weber-Smokey-Mountain-gasket/dp/B00CI6WFCU

Anybody had any experience with Nomex gaskets on a smoker?

morphius
06-04-2015, 10:13 AM
I'm sure someone more experienced than myself will jump in, but I can't imagine that it is really needed. If it wasn't holding temp that would be one thing, but some smoke getting out because it is being filled with more smoke...

KCTitus
06-04-2015, 10:24 AM
I have a WSM, myself, that's going on about 8yrs old and havent really considered the gaskets. I would agree with Morph, if it's not holding heat, you might try them, but smoke leak should be a major concern. I havent had any temperature related issues to date.

gblowfish
06-04-2015, 10:34 AM
The idea is, if you can seal it up better, it'll burn the wood and charcoal fuel slower and more efficiently. Some smoke will always get out I think. Besides, after a couple two or three hours, the meat is going to hold all the smoke it's going to hold anyway. After that point, it's all about temperature control.

morphius
06-04-2015, 10:44 AM
I will add that I also have the WSM. I don't really notice any smoke loss through my door, but do see it around the top of the lid. But I've read that you are supposed to use it with the top damper 100% open, so I figure that if the smoke is leaking out the sides it is already full of smoke.

srvy
06-04-2015, 10:54 AM
Thinking about getting one of these.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53d8d803e4b056bffaa38d20/54abfe58e4b04f59570910bf/54abfe59e4b09c6fe418511b/1420557916409/TTT-01_web_2.jpg?format=500w

http://tiptoptemp.com/

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 10:58 AM
Interesting idea but like Morphius just said - you always keep the top damper open anyway, in large part to avoid getting too much smoke in the chamber and giving your food a bit of a bitter taste. Adding more smoke is really never necessary.

I'll just echo the opinions of others - it doesn't seem necessary unless yours is giving you temp control issues. With the big water pan in the WSM and especially if you burn briquettes instead of lump, I can't imagine any real temperature control issues on the WSM. Hell, if you're anywhere from 225-250 you're going to be fine 90% of the time. If you can't hold it any steadier than that, I'm not sure what good this gasket would do ya.

The only real advantage I can think of would be that if you'd be getting a little less oxygen to it so you'd theoretically burn off less charcoal, but you're intentionally starving it using the bottom dampers anyway so all this would seem to do is allow you to open those bottom dampers up a little bit more - at that point, where's the gain?

Meh, it's an interesting initial thought, but I just don't see the advantage. More smoke /= better.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 11:00 AM
Thinking about getting one of these.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53d8d803e4b056bffaa38d20/54abfe58e4b04f59570910bf/54abfe59e4b09c6fe418511b/1420557916409/TTT-01_web_2.jpg?format=500w

http://tiptoptemp.com/

Closing your top damper is almost always a bad idea. If nothing else, it will ensure that your fire cools off to the point that the fire is no longer burning off all materials, you'll have more particulates in your smoke and now they can't go anywhere so they'll settle on the meat.

Maybe others have figured out some benefits of closing that top damper, but ultimately I've never seen a time where it was a good idea.

tooge
06-04-2015, 11:08 AM
I wouldn't mess with them George. I have a WSM, and 1. you are going to see smoke come out the edges of the lid, but you aren't "losing smoke". In fact, if you can see it, it's almost too much to begin with. You want very little smoke. 2. If you are having a hard time keeping up temps in cooler weather, buy a cheap $9 silver "space blanket" and wrap it up in that when you cook in cooler temps. Just my two cents.

srvy
06-04-2015, 11:27 AM
Closing your top damper is almost always a bad idea. If nothing else, it will ensure that your fire cools off to the point that the fire is no longer burning off all materials, you'll have more particulates in your smoke and now they can't go anywhere so they'll settle on the meat.

Maybe others have figured out some benefits of closing that top damper, but ultimately I've never seen a time where it was a good idea.

That is not closing the damper
It is regulating the heat like a thermostat. opening and closing the damper. The lid is the heat damper. I believe the bottom damper controls smoke. You dont want a white smoke you want a barely noticeable almost a blue smoke. If you like billowing white smoke coming out just roll up newspapers and throw it in because that is the flavor the meat will take on.

http://amazingribs.com/index.html
Nice site with some facts to back it up.

srvy
06-04-2015, 11:36 AM
Top damper since warm air is rising is to open or close to make hotter or reduce temp. Bottom damper controls oxygen to coals. I always thought it anyway.

KCTitus
06-04-2015, 11:49 AM
Any WSM users do overnight winter time smokes? I dont own a DigiQ or similar product, and I'm very nervous to try that without said tool or having to get up every couple of hours to check temps/fire.

srvy
06-04-2015, 11:58 AM
Any WSM users do overnight winter time smokes? I dont own a DigiQ or similar product, and I'm very nervous to try that without said tool or having to get up every couple of hours to check temps/fire.

Get a maverick wireless temperature monitor. I have the standard basic one and I can monitor temps from easy chair. Upgrade monitor allows you to set a alarm if temp falls below your desired temp.

http://www.maverickhousewares.com/outdoor-cooking

gblowfish
06-04-2015, 11:59 AM
Good advice all. I've been wondering how much wood is just right or too much once the fire gets started. I usually start with a charcoal chimney full of Kinsgford, then use chunks of hickory or apple wood to build smoke. Try not to over - do it. Also, try not to go too crazy with the dry rub on the ribs, to make them too salty or too gritty. Each time I do a batch, I get a little better. I've been pre soaking ribs overnight in a mixture of apple cider vinegar and apple juice with kosher salt, then dry them off, let them come to room temp, apply dry rub, let them sit till the dry rub turns a mahogany red, then get em in the smoker at about 225 to 240 for about two to three hours, then pull them out put them in tin foil, rubbed with some squeeze soft butter, put them in the oven for another two hours at 225, don't sauce them until about 15 mins before serving.

Been pretty lucky with that formula. Works best with baby back ribs. The country style ribs are a little too fatty and chewy. I like a clean pull when you bite on them.

srvy
06-04-2015, 12:01 PM
Any WSM users do overnight winter time smokes? I dont own a DigiQ or similar product, and I'm very nervous to try that without said tool or having to get up every couple of hours to check temps/fire.

I have a WSM Ive done plenty of overnight smokes. But depends on what suck as a brisket I want to have a close watch on it. Pork Butt, Sausage etc I have let go the night.

gblowfish
06-04-2015, 12:03 PM
My pal Mr. Doggity said if you do use Adhesive backed Nomex tape as gasket seals, you have to make sure your smoker is spotless clean before you stick the tape onto it, or it'll leak. Would probably be best to install this on a brand new smoker than a used one. Of course, it's the older used smokers that leak the most....so....

I guess I can live with a little smoke sneaking out here and there. It is an imperfect world after all.

srvy
06-04-2015, 12:07 PM
When I bought my first WSM I remember reading in manual that smoke leaking out door is normal and part of the design. Granted this was maybe 30 years ago when I bought my first but they haven't changed much.

srvy
06-04-2015, 12:11 PM
Also friend uses a WSM to cook pizza all the time and can reach temps of 500* plus standard smoker. So leaking smoke shouldn't be a huge issue. Those temps are approaching a ceramic egg at 700* at 2/3rds the cost.

KCTitus
06-04-2015, 12:28 PM
Also friend uses a WSM to cook pizza all the time and can reach temps of 500* plus standard smoker. So leaking smoke shouldn't be a huge issue. Those temps are approaching a ceramic egg at 700* at 2/3rds the cost.

only way to do that is with the door literally off...using nothing but dampers, I cannot get mine over 300.

srvy
06-04-2015, 12:34 PM
only way to do that is with the door literally off...using nothing but dampers, I cannot get mine over 300.

No but I think he uses wood not Briquets.

srvy
06-04-2015, 12:37 PM
When he is in town I will ask him. I also remember members doing same in a thread here. Actually reaching 600 on a Weber. I only smoke with mine but do a search people are doing same thing with WSM they do with eggs its out there. But I am very certain its not briquets.

KCTitus
06-04-2015, 12:39 PM
No but I think he uses wood not Briquets.

Yeah, you'd need an open flame plus no water in the pan.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 01:22 PM
That is not closing the damper
It is regulating the heat like a thermostat. opening and closing the damper. The lid is the heat damper. I believe the bottom damper controls smoke. You dont want a white smoke you want a barely noticeable almost a blue smoke. If you like billowing white smoke coming out just roll up newspapers and throw it in because that is the flavor the meat will take on.

http://amazingribs.com/index.html
Nice site with some facts to back it up.

I'll check the site.

But the temperature controller will close the damper at times. Ultimately I'd rather just have a remote probe thermometer that gives me an alert when needed and I'll adjust the bottom to control air flow to the coals. I don't like the idea of ever shutting down what amounts to an exhaust vent.

Any WSM users do overnight winter time smokes? I dont own a DigiQ or similar product, and I'm very nervous to try that without said tool or having to get up every couple of hours to check temps/fire.

I have an iGrill and I love the thing. I have a meat probe and an ambient air probe so if I'm doing an all-nighter with pork butt or something, I'll set the ambient air probe to range from 225-240 and the meat probe to 195. If the grill falls out of the range, my phone starts yelling at me until I wake up to change it. The unit itself can run 4 probes simultaneously if you felt the need and the settings are all done via your phone. You can set temperature ranges so if it falls above or below a designated level you get an alert. You can program custom ranges as well - extremely user-friendly interface. It also has a graphing feature that allows you to go back through a line graph and see exactly what your temperature did at what times. It's really handy for seeing when the stall period started on pork butt and getting a feel for when its starting to pull back out of it.

They're a little pricier than the maverick but just as accurate and far more versatile, IMO. I use my thermopen to calibrate it and it's never more than a degree or so off (and the thermopen is a legit thermocouple so you know it's balls on). I have a maverick as well and it's gone to the tailgate box just so I always have something in there. I never use it anymore.

If you use the minion method on the coals, you should have plenty of juice to make it through the night. If you're really worried about the external temp messing with the rig, you could always go buy a water heater sleeve and wrap the smoker for added insulation and steadier heat control.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 01:28 PM
Good advice all. I've been wondering how much wood is just right or too much once the fire gets started. I usually start with a charcoal chimney full of Kinsgford, then use chunks of hickory or apple wood to build smoke. Try not to over - do it. Also, try not to go too crazy with the dry rub on the ribs, to make them too salty or too gritty. Each time I do a batch, I get a little better. I've been pre soaking ribs overnight in a mixture of apple cider vinegar and apple juice with kosher salt, then dry them off, let them come to room temp, apply dry rub, let them sit till the dry rub turns a mahogany red, then get em in the smoker at about 225 to 240 for about two to three hours, then pull them out put them in tin foil, rubbed with some squeeze soft butter, put them in the oven for another two hours at 225, don't sauce them until about 15 mins before serving.

Been pretty lucky with that formula. Works best with baby back ribs. The country style ribs are a little too fatty and chewy. I like a clean pull when you bite on them.

Boy, with the right rub I've found you can almost never over-rub one. In fact, most people tend to put too little on there. Just don't use a commercial rub and you should be fine - commercial rubs almost always use too much salt, IMO.

I use the 3-2-1 method as well - the dreaded 'Texas Crutch'. Eh, fuck the purists, it's easier and a hell of a lot faster. I don't pre-soak mine but do put some apple juice and some 'Tryme Tiger Sauce' on them right before I wrap. I think the Tiger Sauce really helps with the Maillard reaction and helps thicken the bark up. When I put them on for the last hour I just prop the door open to about 4 inches of opening to let the heat get up to the 350 range and it really crisps up that outside. I presume you remember to rip off the fell/silverskin before you put them on? It makes a huge difference with ribs, IMO. Maybe it's not as big a deal with baby backs - I'm a spare rib man myself.

Stewie
06-04-2015, 01:30 PM
That company is trying to sell you a bill of goods.

I've had that exact smoker for over 10 years... and yes, you get some smoke through the door and lid at first. After about 30 minutes into the cook there should be no visible smoke for the rest of the time.

We aren't trying to cook in a vacuum. As has been said, if it holds temp why is anyone worried about some leakage? There a huge holes top and bottom to maintain temperature.

I use a version of the Minion method for brisket. It's a mix of Kingsford, lump, oak and hickory. It works quite well.

Predarat
06-04-2015, 01:30 PM
A lot of times by the time you get through 4-5 smokes those things are worthless due to the heat, smoke, ect.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 01:31 PM
Also friend uses a WSM to cook pizza all the time and can reach temps of 500* plus standard smoker. So leaking smoke shouldn't be a huge issue. Those temps are approaching a ceramic egg at 700* at 2/3rds the cost.

Do you know anyone that's ever used a kettle pizza? I've talked myself out of buying the cadillac rig several times; with the brick tombstone underneath and the cooking steel top.

You could get some outstanding heat/convection on one of those and I would think you could get the neopolitan style pizza with that good crust 'pop' to form the lighter/bubblier crust from the expensive wood ovens for 1/10th the cost.

tooge
06-04-2015, 01:35 PM
Boy, with the right rub I've found you can almost never over-rub one. In fact, most people tend to put too little on there. Just don't use a commercial rub and you should be fine - commercial rubs almost always use too much salt, IMO.

I use the 3-2-1 method as well - the dreaded 'Texas Crutch'. Eh, **** the purists, it's easier and a hell of a lot faster. I don't pre-soak mine but do put some apple juice and some 'Tryme Tiger Sauce' on them right before I wrap. I think the Tiger Sauce really helps with the Maillard reaction and helps thicken the bark up. When I put them on for the last hour I just prop the door open to about 4 inches of opening to let the heat get up to the 350 range and it really crisps up that outside. I presume you remember to rip off the fell/silverskin before you put them on? It makes a huge difference with ribs, IMO. Maybe it's not as big a deal with baby backs - I'm a spare rib man myself.

I used to rip off the membrane. Now I just score it with a sharp knife. It actually holds a bit of fat in and helps with moisture. Score about every inch diagonally and then crosswise to the first cuts. You won't know the membrane is even on there, and there will be more moisture.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 01:51 PM
I used to rip off the membrane. Now I just score it with a sharp knife. It actually holds a bit of fat in and helps with moisture. Score about every inch diagonally and then crosswise to the first cuts. You won't know the membrane is even on there, and there will be more moisture.

So you probably don't wrap, then?

Because if you use the crutch, there's never a moisture issue that I've seen and ultimately I think removing the membrane gets you just a little more smoke penetration.

I'll tell you what the best purchase I've made for ribs is, though - a very heavy duty rib rack.

http://www.amazon.com/Steven-Raichlen-Best-Barbecue-Nonstick/dp/B000AXQAIS/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1433447425&sr=8-6&keywords=rib+rack

I friggen love this thing. Most of them are too short for spare ribs so your ribs fold at the top and make contact so you don't get an even cook. They're cheaper materials so they don't hold up worth a damn and they aren't coated so they're a pain to clean.

This thing is massive but fits perfectly in a 22.5 kettle. It's very tall so it holds the ribs perfectly upright and you get a great even smoke all across the rack.

It's made the process virtually bulletproof.

tooge
06-04-2015, 02:59 PM
The only time I wrap is if I'm pressed for space. Then I will stack them all up to cook the last hour or so. I think wrapping them gives a "steamed" quality that I'm not real fond of. Sort of like a really tender brisket that's done in the oven, covered with onions and wrapped in foil. Super moist, but the natural fats in between the muscle fibers tends to steam out, and leave the meat more "wet" than juicy. That probably doesn't make sense.

I guess the best way I can describe it is this: So, imagine you have an overdone steak. You want it to be more juicy. So, you dip it in warm water. Yummmm, NOT! That is how wrapped ribs compare, IMO, to unwrapped ribs. Those natural fats just don't seem to escape as well without the steam.

DJ's left nut
06-04-2015, 03:07 PM
The only time I wrap is if I'm pressed for space. Then I will stack them all up to cook the last hour or so. I think wrapping them gives a "steamed" quality that I'm not real fond of. Sort of like a really tender brisket that's done in the oven, covered with onions and wrapped in foil. Super moist, but the natural fats in between the muscle fibers tends to steam out, and leave the meat more "wet" than juicy. That probably doesn't make sense.

I guess the best way I can describe it is this: So, imagine you have an overdone steak. You want it to be more juicy. So, you dip it in warm water. Yummmm, NOT! That is how wrapped ribs compare, IMO, to unwrapped ribs. Those natural fats just don't seem to escape as well without the steam.

I agree; it's a bit different. I think the natural cheweyness of spare ribs tends to offset it a little and if you get that good hour over high heat it undoes some of the issues you're talking about, but I agree there is a difference there.

I've just never found the unwrapped versions so demonstrably better that I'm willing to deal with the time/effort involved in doing it that way.

tooge
06-04-2015, 03:28 PM
It takes a bit more time but actually less effort. In fact, if you are using a WSM, you use mustard or oil on the meat, then rub it liberally. Let it sit out an hour or so. Place on top rack in the WSM (four slabs or less), do the minion method of coal burn down. Let them cook for about 5 1/2 hours at 225. They should be perfect. Talk about easy. If you want them more "fall off the bone", than just a clean pull where you bite, then maybe go a full 6 hours. No need to open up the smoker, wrap, then unwrap to finish. Just cook, then sauce/mop the last 45 minutes or so with the door slightly open. It's actually easier.

gblowfish
06-04-2015, 08:26 PM
I have a rib rack buried out on my back porch in a big plastic storage tub that I've never used. Guess I should fish that sucker out and give it a try.

I sold my starter Red Stone Smoker to a buddy for $40. Got it out of my shed and cleaned it up a bit. It's OK for a starter but not as good as the Weber GSM. The Weber is just the tits for smoking ribs.

Just Passin' By
06-04-2015, 10:41 PM
Do you know anyone that's ever used a kettle pizza? I've talked myself out of buying the cadillac rig several times; with the brick tombstone underneath and the cooking steel top.

You could get some outstanding heat/convection on one of those and I would think you could get the neopolitan style pizza with that good crust 'pop' to form the lighter/bubblier crust from the expensive wood ovens for 1/10th the cost.

Most ovens can’t reach the 700 plus–degree temperatures of commercial ovens. Enter KettlePizza kits, which are designed to turn 18.5- and 22.5-inch kettle-style charcoal grills into wood-fired ovens. All kits include a metal collar that elevates the grill’s lid and has a cutout that lets you insert pizzas without losing heat. We tried the brand’s most popular model, the Deluxe USA Kit ($239.95), which also comes with a round baking stone and aluminum peel. The results were underwhelming: The maximum temperature reached in the dome was about 650 degrees, and pizzas cooked unevenly. When the flames died down, we had to remove the hot equipment to refuel. The higher-end kit, the Pro 22 Kit ($299.95), performed better. A grate replacement holds the tombstone-shaped baking stone and features openings in the sides, which made refueling easy. A metal fire basket that holds wood chips alongside the stone helped boost temperatures in the dome to more than 900 degrees. Pizzas had evenly cooked toppings, perfectly charred crusts, and great wood-fired flavor. If you are serious about outdoor pizza, it’s still far cheaper than a backyard wood-fired oven.

http://www.cooksillustrated.com/equipment_reviews/1512-pizza-grilling-kits

ILChief
06-05-2015, 05:24 AM
I know a lot of people use Rutland gaskets on their big green eggs. Don't know if it would be good for you or not but worth looking into

DJ's left nut
06-05-2015, 08:53 AM
http://www.cooksillustrated.com/equipment_reviews/1512-pizza-grilling-kits

I'd like to see more first person reviews of this version:

http://www.kettlepizza.com/Serious-Eats-KettlePizza-Special-Edition-Kit-p/kpse-22.htm

They built this after the serious eats folks modified one to increase airflow, etc... Kettlepizza contacted them and used the tombstone pizza stone to increase flow on the side, used the baking steel top top minimize heat loss and then vented the back to increase draw/convection within the oven itself. The design changes seem to be really focused and sensible.

I definitely don't need it, but my father in law just spent 30 grand installing a full boat stone-fired pizza oven in his backyard and I'd like to see what I can manage for $400.