Air Conditioning Problem

[CaliforniaChief]

Hey all.

So I noticed after dinner that the fan is running but the compressor wasn't...just blowing warm air.

I turned the system off, and back on. No change.

I checked the main fuse box, turned them off and back on. No change.

Then I went to the AC Fuse box, pulled it out, re-secured the fuses in their slots and put it back in...and bingo, it worked.

Then I noticed about 20 minutes later that it's off again and the fan is still blowing, back at square one.

Ideas?

[lewdog]

In before Baconeater.

[Reerun_KC]

Is the fan outside running? If not I would bet the run capacitor is out. Mine went out a week or so ago. Did the same thing.

[CaliforniaChief]

Our "forced air" unit (I guess that's what you call it) is in the attic. It is running when I turn it on. The compressor outside is not, although it did for awhile after I jiggled the fuses.

[TambaBerry]

I don't know a whole lot, but check to make sure your condenser??? is not frozen. Also, check your lines to make sure one of them is cold.

[cosmo20002]

I don't know a whole lot, but check to make sure your condenser??? is not frozen. Also, check your lines to make sure one of them is cold.

And if it is frozen?



ANTIFREEZE, obviously.

[srvy]

Most likely the CAP. It takes a lot of power to start up the compressor. The run capacitor gives it a boost to start when they go it wont start. If your not afraid of electricity a 5 to 10 dollar part on amazon an 5 to 10 minute labor. A cap around in town 20 to 30 dollars. A service call 220.00 dollars.

[Reerun_KC]

And if it is frozen?



ANTIFREEZE, obviously.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.jpg

[Reerun_KC]

Most likely the CAP. It takes a lot of power to start up the compressor. The run capacitor gives it a boost to start when they go it wont start. If your not afraid of electricity a 5 to 10 dollar part on amazon an 5 to 10 minute labor. A cap around in town 20 to 30 dollars. A service call 220.00 dollars.

This is corect.

[CaliforniaChief]

I just pulled the fuses and re-inserted them, and the unit ran again. So that could still mean the capacitor is out? I'd better call Doc Brown.

[Buzz]

Capacitor, buy a few extra online for about 15 bucks a piece and save a wad of cash. Mine get toasted after lighting strikes. You should be able to tell, they mushroom out, sometimes not.

[stevieray]

....a flux flummox!

[CaliforniaChief]

I'm going to open it up and look at the capacitor before it gets dark. Thanks for the feedback, guys.

[CaliforniaChief]

Nothing looks abnormal. Really old unit. I'm looking up the model number, etc to get the right capacitor.

[Reerun_KC]

Has to be it. I got dinged for $220 this spring as it happened right after my daughters wedding, like next day. I was so busy I just called dto have it fixed. I had a house full and was busy as hell.

15 min swap and it was running again.

[srvy]

Nothing looks abnormal. Really old unit. I'm looking up the model number, etc to get the right capacitor.

Did it stop running again?

You can test them with a volt ohm meter. Most have a cap tester.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_vhiCfIwFKk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Buzz]

I'm going to open it up and look at the capacitor before it gets dark. Thanks for the feedback, guys.

The end will be bubbled out, and again sometimes not.

[CaliforniaChief]

The end will be bubbled out, and again sometimes not.

It still looks perfectly cylindrical.

[CaliforniaChief]

Has to be it. I got dinged for $220 this spring as it happened right after my daughters wedding, like next day. I was so busy I just called dto have it fixed. I had a house full and was busy as hell.

15 min swap and it was running again.

The unit's so old...I did a model number search and am pretty sure it's a Bryant, but beyond that, even at repair clinic.com it's not coming up. The old one doesn't have any script on it. I'm going to try, though.

[Buzz]

It still looks perfectly cylindrical.

Then make a service call and pay a couple hundred, or pay johnstone 45 bucks for something you can get for 15 bucks online. It's a crap shot at this point, but well, free advise is free.

[Bugeater]

Where are these fuses? In the main fuse panel in the basement or at the disconnect on the outside? I'm thinking the problem is in there and not the capacitor, but then again I've been told that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

[SAUTO]

Where are these fuses? In the main fuse panel in the basement or at the disconnect on the outside? I'm thinking the problem is in there and not the capacitor, but then again I've been told that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Why would the cap start working after jiggling the fuses?

[Bugeater]

Why would the cap start working after jiggling the fuses?That's what's not making sense to me either. Sounds more like a connection issue.

[CaliforniaChief]

That's what's not making sense to me either. Sounds more like a connection issue.

I'm starting to think this is it as well. I pulled out the fuses again, sanded the copper down a bit, and tightened the fuse holders so that I really had to force them in...and it ran fine all night and still is. I'll probably still order a capacitor because they're cheap and I'll have one on hand in case it goes out again, but I'm hoping it's resolved.

Thanks again, everyone. I really do appreciate it.

[srvy]

Is it blowing cool air? Some units have a cap for the fan and one for the compressor. Last time I had mine go out it would stop. I would go downstairs kick off the circuit for compressor then kick on and its started. It did this several times till finally no more. Hope it was just the dirty contacts.

Those caps get all rusty and you cant read the data on them. Its usually stamped on side at bottom. Most people wont have this lying around the garage but a product call naval jelly can remove the rust to wear you can read it. I still see it in auto supply stores and westlake.

You can also lightly use a wire brush and i mean lightly then clean it with WD 40. It will show up the letters and numbers.

[CaliforniaChief]

Yeah, blowing nice and cold as of this morning. Seems fine, though I'm at work and the family's away today.

[kepp]

So our AC stopped working yesterday. The fan on the unit outside isn't spinning. I took the cover off and the two LED lights are blinking slowly in unison and that doesn't change when the thermostat tries to turn the system on. When the system clicks on air is blowing from the vents (because of the fan on the inside unit, I assume), but there is a pretty loud buzzing sound coming from the fan motor (best as I can tell at least). I'm attaching a pic of the motor description. How much should this cost? It seems like I should be able to swap this out myself if I can find a replacement, no?

[Bugeater]

Buzzing is probably from the contactor being energized. My money is on a bad capacitor, they get to popping this time of year.

[Bugeater]

Is the compressor kicking on at all?

[kepp]

Is the compressor kicking on at all?

I'm not sure. How can I tell?

And the motor isn't seized up or anything. I can turn the blades fine. Not sure if that matters.

[Grim]

So our AC stopped working yesterday. The fan on the unit outside isn't spinning. I took the cover off and the two LED lights are blinking slowly in unison and that doesn't change when the thermostat tries to turn the system on. When the system clicks on air is blowing from the vents (because of the fan on the inside unit, I assume), but there is a pretty loud buzzing sound coming from the fan motor (best as I can tell at least). I'm attaching a pic of the motor description. How much should this cost? It seems like I should be able to swap this out myself if I can find a replacement, no?
these guys have it for $170.
https://acpartsdistributors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=34571

Give Grainger a call. They might have it in stock.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I just pulled the fuses and re-inserted them, and the unit ran again. So that could still mean the capacitor is out? I'd better call Doc Brown.

I don't think so...the run cap gives the unit enough juice to start the condensor. If it's fried, pulling fuses shouldn't help. But they are easy enough to replace you might as well do it. Get an oversized one.

[kepp]

these guys have it for $170.
https://acpartsdistributors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=34571

Give Grainger a call. They might have it in stock.

Thanks. Yeah, Grainger has similar motors in stock. I'm going to check the capacitor first.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

So our AC stopped working yesterday. The fan on the unit outside isn't spinning. I took the cover off and the two LED lights are blinking slowly in unison and that doesn't change when the thermostat tries to turn the system on. When the system clicks on air is blowing from the vents (because of the fan on the inside unit, I assume), but there is a pretty loud buzzing sound coming from the fan motor (best as I can tell at least). I'm attaching a pic of the motor description. How much should this cost? It seems like I should be able to swap this out myself if I can find a replacement, no?

THIS is a bad cap.

[Bugeater]

I'm not sure. How can I tell?

And the motor isn't seized up or anything. I can turn the blades fine. Not sure if that matters.

You'd be able to hear it. I'd start with the cap, it's cheaper and easier to replace and very likely the problem

[Bugeater]

With the system turned on, try to stick a screwdriver through the top and give the fan a boost, if it starts up, it's a bad cap.

[kepp]

I took the CAP out...is there any way to visibly tell if it's bad? Probably not. I don't have a multi-meter. I suppose I can run it by Grainger and they can test it and sell me another one.

Can I buy a more "heavy duty" capacitor? Something that won't crap out every other year. Mine is a "Beacon" brand, 45 + 5 MFD +10/-5% 440VAC 50/60HZ CD45/5X440R

[Chief Roundup]

Buzzing is probably from the contactor being energized. My money is on a bad capacitor, they get to popping this time of year.

This right here is the easiest and cheapest place to start. Check the capacitor to see if it looks disfigured. A lot of times, but not always the capacitor will end up deformed. The top or bottom may be swollen. A new capacitor from a local supply house should be less than $10 and maybe even $5 depending on size and such.
If it is just the outdoor condensing fan that has went out you should still get cold air for a few minutes, time for the refrigerant to complete a cycle or two before the air goes warm again.

[TEX]

Buzzing is probably from the contactor being energized. My money is on a bad capacitor, they get to popping this time of year.

This. Its an easy fix.

Turn system off until repairs are made so no other damage occurs.

[kepp]

This right here is the easiest and cheapest place to start. Check the capacitor to see if it looks disfigured. A lot of times, but not always the capacitor will end up deformed. The top or bottom may be swollen. A new capacitor from a local supply house should be less than $10 and maybe even $5 depending on size and such.
If it is just the outdoor condensing fan that has went out you should still get cold air for a few minutes, time for the refrigerant to complete a cycle or two before the air goes warm again.

The capacitor looks shiny new...no swelling or other noticeable deformities. I'll go get one anyway.

[The Franchise]

Is it ok to spray down the AC unit that's outside? The AC tech said that I should spray it down to get all of the years of dirt off of it.

[Bugeater]

Is it ok to spray down the AC unit that's outside? The AC tech said that I should spray it down to get all of the years of dirt off of it.

Yes it's recommended, shut the system down at the thermostat and the breaker before you do it though.

[The Franchise]

Yes it's recommended, shut the system down at the thermostat and the breaker before you do it though.

Cool....thanks.

[Chief Roundup]

I took the CAP out...is there any way to visibly tell if it's bad? Probably not. I don't have a multi-meter. I suppose I can run it by Grainger and they can test it and sell me another one.

Can I buy a more "heavy duty" capacitor? Something that won't crap out every other year. Mine is a "Beacon" brand, 45 + 5 MFD +10/-5% 440VAC 50/60HZ CD45/5X440R

The blades being able to spin is only an indicator that the motor is not locked up, it really doesn't mean much.
Make sure the supply house gives you a 440 VAC back not a 370 VAC!!!! If you ever have a 370VAC and are replacing the cap then replace it with a 440VAC cap, they work the same but the 440 lasts longer.
Try not to get a MARS brand cap they are the cheapest junkiest stuff out there.

[Chief Roundup]

Is it ok to spray down the AC unit that's outside? The AC tech said that I should spray it down to get all of the years of dirt off of it.

Yes it's recommended, shut the system down at the thermostat and the breaker before you do it though.

Absolutely. You should clean your outdoor unit annually or more, depending on if the grass clippings get cut or blown to the unit and such.
When cleaning the outdoor pay attention to the aluminum fins. Do not go across the direction that the fins run, with any pressure or it could bend the fins causing you to lose efficiency immediately and life on the unit if enough get folded or bent over causing a restriction. They make combs to straighten the fins if this occurs.

[The Franchise]

Absolutely. You should clean your outdoor unit annually or more, depending on if the grass clippings get cut or blown to the unit and such.
When cleaning the outdoor pay attention to the aluminum fins. Do not go across the direction that the fins run, with any pressure or it could bend the fins causing you to lose efficiency immediately and life on the unit if enough get folded or bent over causing a restriction. They make combs to straighten the fins if this occurs.

Does it have to be a higher pressure wash or is it just about getting some water on there and cleaning it?

[Chief Roundup]

Does it have to be a higher pressure wash or is it just about getting some water on there and cleaning it?

You know it varies depending on how dirt the unit is, but no it doesn't have to be a lot of pressure to wash it but more than just a hose without a nozzle unless you are using some Foaminator or some other rinseless condensor cleaner.

[Grim]

Does it have to be a higher pressure wash or is it just about getting some water on there and cleaning it?

I take my condenser as far apart as I can every spring and take the shop-vac with a brush attachment to it.
The first time I did this, the back of the unit looked like a brown carpet when I started.
A high-pressure sprayer could possibly bend your fins.
A garden hose doesn't seem to have enough pressure to get it really clean.
Shop-vac with a brush attachment does it right every time.

[Chief Roundup]

I take my condenser as far apart as I can every spring and take the shop-vac with a brush attachment to it.
The first time I did this, the back of the unit looked like a brown carpet when I started.
A high-pressure sprayer could possibly bend your fins.
A garden hose doesn't seem to have enough pressure to get it really clean.
Shop-vac with a brush attachment does it right every time.

I had a service call one time that their outdoor fan motor wasn't turning and system wasn't functioning properly. I get to these folks house and sure enough the fan motor is out. I notice the unit is dirty. The folks that live there are renters and the home owner is out of state. These renters are complaining that their bills have steadily increased in the last 3 years that they have been living there. I mention that cleaning the coils would probably help their bill and all that. They weren't interested. While I had the top off the unit I took a couple of pictures of how thick the dirt was on the backside of that unit and sent them to the home owner. The home owner changed his mind when he seen that it was over a 1/4 of an inch thick. I had to take the hail guard off so that I could remove it as one piece. The thing was like a 3'x4' piece of indoor/outdoor carpet. The heat from the refrigerant had molded the backside into a solid piece of whatever hair and such would make.

[kepp]

Update...I replaced the capacitor and, while the loud buzzing has stopped, the fan still isn't turning. It's acting like it wants to. It moves a bit and then stops...moves a bit and stops...etc. I also picked up a fan motor when I got the capacitor just in case. Does it sound like the motor is bad?

I took the new motor out of the box and, of course, the wiring is different. There are four instead of three and they're different colors. I'm hoping you guys can help me map the wiring. I'm attaching four photos...three of them detail how the old motor is hooked up and the fourth is the wiring of the new motor.

old motor black = new motor black
old motor purple = new motor purple
old motor orange = new motor ?
new motor gray = ???
new motor striped gray = ???

[Grim]

Update...I replaced the capacitor and, while the loud buzzing has stopped, the fan still isn't turning. It's acting like it wants to. It moves a bit and then stops...moves a bit and stops...etc. I also picked up a fan motor when I got the capacitor just in case. Does it sound like the motor is bad?

I took the new motor out of the box and, of course, the wiring is different. There are four instead of three and they're different colors. I'm hoping you guys can help me map the wiring. I'm attaching four photos...three of them detail how the old motor is hooked up and the fourth is the wiring of the new motor.

old motor black = new motor black
old motor purple = new motor purple
old motor orange = new motor ?
new motor gray = ???
new motor striped gray = ???
On the side of each motor, there is a wiring diagram (should be).
It's in the 4th pic you posted on one of the motors (wires are in the way of the diagram in the pic you provided). If you could post a clear pic of each one, it would be helpful.

Here's a helpful video that might answer your questions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbwxzLzCw_A

[srvy]

Update...I replaced the capacitor and, while the loud buzzing has stopped, the fan still isn't turning. It's acting like it wants to. It moves a bit and then stops...moves a bit and stops...etc. I also picked up a fan motor when I got the capacitor just in case. Does it sound like the motor is bad?

I took the new motor out of the box and, of course, the wiring is different. There are four instead of three and they're different colors. I'm hoping you guys can help me map the wiring. I'm attaching four photos...three of them detail how the old motor is hooked up and the fourth is the wiring of the new motor.

old motor black = new motor black
old motor purple = new motor purple
old motor orange = new motor ?
new motor gray = ???
new motor striped gray = ???

It is possible to get a bad capacitor as most are from China now. Before I bought that fan motor I would have gone to Radio Shack or Sears and bought a cheap auto ranging multi meter for 10 bucks and tested that CAP. Just follow that youtube video I posted above its really simple just remember to discharge it per that video before testing. Did Grainger tell there return policy on the motor if it turns out not to be the problem?

[kepp]

On the side of each motor, there is a wiring diagram (should be).
It's in the 4th pic you posted on one of the motors (wires are in the way of the diagram in the pic you provided). If you could post a clear pic of each one, it would be helpful.

Here's a helpful video that might answer your questions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbwxzLzCw_A

Here is the pic...

[Grim]

Here is the pic...

Is there a diagram on the old motor that you're replacing? If so, could you post a pic of that as well?

[Dartgod]

Is there a diagram on the old motor that you're replacing? If so, could you post a pic of that as well?

We'll need a revealing picture of your wife* as well.













*If she's hot.

[11Chiefs]

We recently had a similar experience... fan running, condenser running intermittently. Ended up the drain pipe connected to the condensation drain pan was clogged/slow draining. This caused the drain pan to fill up and trigger a float safety switch. The switch only turned off the condenser and not the fan.

The fan would run constantly, the condenser would kick on and off based on how quick the excess water evaporated out.

Solution: shop vac the drain pipe and clean out the drain pan. Condensation drains with no problem now. It's working like a charm.

[kepp]

Is there a diagram on the old motor that you're replacing? If so, could you post a pic of that as well?

It's not so much a diagram, but it says what to do.

[Dartgod]

We recently had a similar experience... fan running, condenser running intermittently. Ended up the drain pipe for the condensation drain pan from the A coil was clogged/slow draining. This caused the drain pan that catches the water to fill up and trigger a float safety switch. The switch only turned off the condenser and not the fan.

The fan would run constantly, the condenser would kick on and off based on how quick the excess water evaporated out of the drain pan.

Solution: shop vac the condensation drain pipe and clean out the drain pan below the A coil. Condensation drains with no problem now. It's works like a charm.

There's nothing mechanical about a condenser that would "kick on and off". I assume you mean compressor?

[kepp]

So from the video you posted it seems like I need to go get another capacitor and the brown/brown+white wires go to it. I guess I called them gray.

And putting those two diagrams together I get:

brown/brown+white = new capacitor
new black = old black
new purple = old orange
...and there will be an empty lead on the dual run capacitor where the old purple went...

???

[Grim]

So from the video you posted it seems like I need to go get another capacitor and the brown/brown+white wires go to it. I guess I called them gray.

And putting those two diagrams together I get:

brown/brown+white = new capacitor
new black = old black
new purple = old orange
...and there will be an empty lead on the dual run capacitor where the old purple went...

???
This document confirms what you're saying
http://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/Typical-HVAC-Condenser-Fan-Motor-Wiring-Diagram.pdf

I just haven't had a chance to look at everything carefully. I'll be home from work in a couple hours and I could probably give you some more answers after some more digging if somebody else hasn't given you the answers you need.

[kepp]

This document confirms what you're saying
http://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/Typical-HVAC-Condenser-Fan-Motor-Wiring-Diagram.pdf

I just haven't had a chance to look at everything carefully. I'll be home from work in a couple hours and I could probably give you some more answers after some more digging if somebody else hasn't given you the answers you need.

Based on that (and a closer look at the new motor's diagram), this looks correct:

brown/brown+white = new capacitor
new black = old black
new purple = 'C' lead on old dual run capacitor
...and the fan lead on the old dual run capacitor where the old purple went will be empty...

[Bugeater]

Use the 3 wire diagram on the new motor. Looks like the orange and purple are flipped.

[kepp]

But the new motor does have the "Optional 3 Wire Connection" where:

* brown+white goes to "insulate"
* brown goes to capacitor (to the 'fan' lead I'm assuming)
* purple goes to capacitor 'C' lead
* black goes to same lead as old black

Is "insulate" just ground? Or does it mean just don't use it and cap it off?

[Bugeater]

But the new motor does have the "Optional 3 Wire Connection" where:

* brown+white goes to "insulate"
* brown goes to capacitor (to the 'fan' lead I'm assuming)
* purple goes to capacitor 'C' lead
* black goes to same lead as old black

Is "insulate" just ground?
No, just cap it with a wire nut

[kepp]

No, just cap it with a wire nut

Cool. So does what I wrote sound correct?

[Bugeater]

Cool. So does what I wrote sound correct?

I believe so, I ran into this same deal on a Rheem I worked on last year. Might wait for Chief Roundup to chime in, he has a lot more experience than I do.

[kepp]

I tried wiring it up like that and it seems to work now. Fan spinning, compressor compressing, cold air blowing... Many thanks to you guys.

[11Chiefs]

There's nothing mechanical about a condenser that would "kick on and off". I assume you mean compressor?

you are correct. I meant compressor.

[Chief Roundup]

Sorry I was away for a while.
Both the brown and the brown with the white strip go to the capacitor. Black is your fixed high speed the purple is the neutral in this instance. Just wire nut the rest off. If you wired it like the top diagram in the picture of the new motor you did great. Now if you used some tie wraps to make it look neat and insure that the wires cannot get to the blades of the fan you are in good shape.

[Buzz]

Good job, mine, I had to fight getting the blade off the old motor shaft, then cut the shaft down off the new motor with a sawzall. I'm guessing you figured out how to just break off the extended bolts holding the motor to the lid?

[lewdog]

The day my AC goes out is the day I fly in Baconeater, pay for his plane ticket and free accommodations at our place during his time here so he can put in a new AC system for me.

[Buzz]

The day my AC goes out is the day I fly in Baconeater, pay for his plane ticket and free accommodations at our place during his time here so he can put in a new AC system for me.


Baconeater told Chuck Norris to get off his lawn, he only told him once.

[Psyko Tek]

I just pulled the fuses and re-inserted them, and the unit ran again. So that could still mean the capacitor is out? I'd better call Doc Brown.

take some sand paper or something to all the contacts could just be corrosion, just a thought

[kepp]

Sorry I was away for a while.
Both the brown and the brown with the white strip go to the capacitor. Black is your fixed high speed the purple is the neutral in this instance. Just wire nut the rest off. If you wired it like the top diagram in the picture of the new motor you did great. Now if you used some tie wraps to make it look neat and insure that the wires cannot get to the blades of the fan you are in good shape.

I used the "ALTERNATE 3 WIRE CONNECTION" diagram

Good job, mine, I had to fight getting the blade off the old motor shaft, then cut the shaft down off the new motor with a sawzall. I'm guessing you figured out how to just break off the extended bolts holding the motor to the lid?

The set screw/bolt on my fan was a little stubborn, but I managed to get it off. I just used a hack saw to shorten the bolts.