For the IT guys, which job should I take?

[MahiMike]

I know there are several of us IT guys on the Planet here. I have a big decision to make and went to the place with the most insight into these things.

Basically I have to decide between 2 jobs.

Job A - my current job. Work from home as a Capacity Planning Analyst for a large bank. I'm a relative newbie to this position and after 6 mos am finally becoming productive. My boss and team lead are so busy (and disorganized) that they never have time for me. I'm getting little training and the workload is increasing each week. The main reason I looked for other opportunities was due to our company's penchant for the annual purge. I worked happily for 4 years in a development role until the last shakeup. Luckily I was 'traded' to this group.
Not sure if any of you are capacity planners but my job is to tell architects and engineers how much horse power they'll need for their new applications. We're talking up to 200 servers per app. Banks have a lot of cheese.

Job B - Level 2/3 support for another large bank. My title would be an AVP, managing a small team. They are looking for someone to groom to move up into management. I'd be responsible for moving a team of folks from China back to the U.S.! (fuck Walmart). This would be a fairly stressful, high volume position but if I can do it for a couple years, moving up in the company would be an option. 2 things that sucks about it are the hours (10 a.m. to 7 p.m.) and the fact that I can't work from home. The big plus here is that it's an 18% pay increase.

Background - I'll be 55 in a few months. These decisions are made more difficult once you get this old.

What do you guys think? Which one looks better?

Thanks

[Saul Good]

How many hours do you currently work?

[eDave]

18% is a nice increase. However, how much of that gets chewed up in commuting gas, lunch out, etc?

It would be tough for me to work in a cube again.

[The Franchise]

If you're 55.....how worried are you about moving up in the company?

[morphius]

I did the work from home thing for over a year, with bosses that paid no attention to me at all. Felt they were doing that so that if they had to let us go they wouldn't feel attached. Was glad when I volunteered for a layoff because I had something else lined up.

Being that you are on-shoring, how long would you expect to be stuck in those hours once the guys were in the US? The hours do kind of suck, but will you be working banker days?

[MahiMike]

How many hours do you currently work?

I'm working about 45-50 hours/week. One bad thing about working from home is that you are always by the computer and they like to schedule meetings during your lunch. I don't take many breaks.

[MahiMike]

18% is a nice increase. However, how much of that gets chewed up in commuting gas, lunch out, etc?

It would be tough for me to work in a cube again.

The commute is a breeze. It's located down the street against traffic. But yeah the lunch out is a thing. I'm used to running to the fridge whenever I want and I like my cooking.

[MahiMike]

If you're 55.....how worried are you about moving up in the company?

I'm not looking to go that high. Just high enough to delegate instead of doing the work myself.

[The Franchise]

The commute is a breeze. It's located down the street against traffic. But yeah the lunch out is a thing. I'm used to running to the fridge whenever I want and I like my cooking.

So bring leftovers into work or make your lunch the morning of.

[The Franchise]

What do you have against the hours of 10 to 7? Not being a smart ass. Does it conflict with your schedule? Just don't like it because it's an odd shift?

[KC native]

You should take option C.

[MahiMike]

What do you have against the hours of 10 to 7? Not being a smart ass. Does it conflict with your schedule? Just don't like it because it's an odd shift?

I'm old. I go to bed at 11. It would be a stamina thing at 1st. Pretty sure I could get used to it. Cuts down on family time too.

[TribalElder]

I know there are several of us IT guys on the Planet here. I have a big decision to make and went to the place with the most insight into these things.

Basically I have to decide between 2 jobs.

Job A - my current job. Work from home as a Capacity Planning Analyst for a large bank. I'm a relative newbie to this position and after 6 mos am finally becoming productive. My boss and team lead are so busy (and disorganized) that they never have time for me. I'm getting little training and the workload is increasing each week. The main reason I looked for other opportunities was due to our company's penchant for the annual purge. I worked happily for 4 years in a development role until the last shakeup. Luckily I was 'traded' to this group.
Not sure if any of you are capacity planners but my job is to tell architects and engineers how much horse power they'll need for their new applications. We're talking up to 200 servers per app. Banks have a lot of cheese.

Job B - Level 2/3 support for another large bank. My title would be an AVP, managing a small team. They are looking for someone to groom to move up into management. I'd be responsible for moving a team of folks from China back to the U.S.! (**** Walmart). This would be a fairly stressful, high volume position but if I can do it for a couple years, moving up in the company would be an option. 2 things that sucks about it are the hours (10 a.m. to 7 p.m.) and the fact that I can't work from home. The big plus here is that it's an 18% pay increase.

Background - I'll be 55 in a few months. These decisions are made more difficult once you get this old.

What do you guys think? Which one looks better?

Thanks

Your company should move to microservices and utilize auto scaling and eliminate that position

So job 2

[Brock]

I would not work 10 pm to 7 am. That shit kills people.

[TribalElder]

I would not work 10 pm to 7 am. That shit kills people.

I agree but it was 10am to 7 pm

[Brock]

I agree but it was 10am to 7 pm

Oh. Well hell, I don't see why that's even worth mentioning as a negative.

[eDave]

I agree but it was 10am to 7 pm

10 - 7 in an office would suck

10 - 7 from home would be sweet. More like 10 - 5 realistically.

But I work 24 hours, kinda, from home. Always available for my team across the pond.

A way of life I suppose.

[Brock]

10 - 7 in an office would suck

10 - 7 from home would be sweet. More like 10 - 5 realistically.

But I work 24 hours, kinda, from home. Always available for my team across the pond.

A way of life I suppose.

Any time in the office would suck, but dragging in at 10 after a couple hours drinking coffee and working out and reading news, and then getting off at dinner time? Fuckin awesome if you have to go in.

[lewdog]

I would have a hard time working from home. I am always wanting to finish something I start so I'd feel like I'd always have work at home with me. That would be hard. I like being able to come home and leave my work at work.

[eDave]

I would have a hard time working from home. I am always wanting to finish something I start so I'd feel like I'd always have work at home with me. That would be hard. I like being able to come home and leave my work at work.

Definitely easier as a single guy. I'd have to adjust to shutting the laptop lid if I had a family. For sure.

When I was in a relationship, I found myself wanting to get home so I could check in on my project.

But I really enjoy what I do.

[Lex Luthor]

A lot of it boils down to this: Would you rather do technical work or be a manager? When I first became a manager I fucking hated it, because I loved the technical work. But I've been a manager for over a decade now, and now I really like it. But it's definitely not for everybody.

If it were me I'd take the AVP position, but I also prefer to go to an office over working at home. To me working at home occasionally is a great benefit. If I had to work at home every day, I'd go crazy. I like the social interaction of an office environment.

[BigRedChief]

Both your jobs are not that good. I'd keep looking.

Your first job is going away. I've been expected to do my own capacity planning at all my jobs since 2005. Those jobs are going to get cut. Maybe not next week, 6 months but within 2 years? Probably.

The other you are getting paid for stress. If you are good at it, they won't you move up the chain. They will keep you right there making their life's easier. Do you really want more stress at this point in your life for money? You want to get paid for your experience and passion, not stress? Find that job.

That being said, I took an extremely stressful team lead position to make the move to Florida. But, I knew the trade off was I could get to Florida, get settled and then change jobs. Ended up staying at that job for 3 years anyway. So WTF do I know?

[Dave Lane]

Go B

[scho63]

An 18% pay increase can be HUGE as it is relevant to your current pay level.

Getting an 18% pay raise from 50K to 59K is probably not worth it.

Getting an 18% pay raise from 125K to 147.5K probably is......

[eDave]

An 18% pay increase can be HUGE as it is relevant to your current pay level.

Getting an 18% pay raise from 50K to 59K is probably not worth it.

Getting an 18% pay raise from 125K to 147.5K probably is......

I think 18% is more significant at $50K. Regardless, 18% resets your wage/salary baseline. Which is nice.

[KCUnited]

I was down on the prospect of working from home, but 18% couldn't get me back in the office now.

I didn't realize how burnt out I was on the office until I started working from home. It definitely fits me to a point it would be a huge consideration when switching jobs.

[eDave]

I was down on the prospect of working from home, but 18% couldn't get me back in the office now.

I didn't realize how burnt out I was on the office until I started working from home. It definitely fits me to a point it would be a huge consideration when switching jobs.

Absolutely. If you can adapt to it, it's the best work environment out there. Good for both sides.

[Predarat]

In the IT world nowdays its nice to have a choice like that. In the Nashville area if you want to switch jobs you basically have to be willing to go from a permanent/straight hire back to temp/contract, its rare to get a straight hire even if you are perfectly qualified. Not sure if its that way everywhere though. Even though job B is new, its higher income and sounds like a more stable situation. Those hours do suck, and not working from home much would suck too, i'd have to say job B.

[eDave]

In the IT world nowdays its nice to have a choice like that. In the Nashville area if you want to switch jobs you basically have to be willing to go from a permanent/straight hire back to temp/contract, its rare to get a straight hire even if you are perfectly qualified. Not sure if its that way everywhere though. Even though job B is new, its higher income and sounds like a more stable situation. Those hours do suck, and not working from home much would suck too, i'd have to say job B.

Contract labor is huge everywhere. And not bad work if you can adapt to it. I did it for 15 years. Good cheddar. But unstable, if there is such a thing as stable.

I'm FT now but don't feel secure. At least I'll get a severance.

[MahiMike]

Thanks for all the great feedback. You guys rock. I'm still 50/50 at this point.

[eDave]

Thanks for all the great feedback. You guys rock. I'm still 50/50 at this point.

Then we haven't helped at all! ;)

[Abba-Dabba]

If you are going to be a manager of any sort, you will probably be bringing home work as well as working in the office. Management never ends for me when I walk out the door.

[Eleazar]

No matter the job it should probably come down to which job has the most growth potential, which one would give you the better person to report to, and which one you would be the best at.

[eDave]

If you are going to be a manager of any sort, you will probably be bringing home work as well as working in the office. Management never ends for me when I walk out the door.

True dat. Supervisor/Director/Middle Management is the worst. THAT"S where you pay your management dues. Also first on the layoff list in most cases. So be good at it.

[Predarat]

Thanks for all the great feedback. You guys rock. I'm still 50/50 at this point.

Some help we were!

[KCTitus]

I do something very similar to 'B'...

The transition from technical person to a manager is not an easy thing. You have to develop entirely new set of skills, which are people skills. As an IT manager that manages over a dozen individuals, when I made the transition, it was a completely different job than my old IT job and that took a lot of getting used to. While still in IT, you dont do technical things anymore.

That said the increase might help the nest egg given that you're probably looking toward retirement in the next 10-20 years.

Lastly, Ive found that finding good talented individuals is nearly impossible. It's amazing with 93 million people out of the workforce that you cannot find anyone worth their salt to do the job at a high level. If there's one thing that really brings the stress it's that. The other various issues I deal with are just the nature of the job.

[eDave]

I do something very similar to 'B'...

The transition from technical person to a manager is not an easy thing. You have to develop entirely new set of skills, which are people skills. As an IT manager that manages over a dozen individuals, when I made the transition, it was a completely different job than my old IT job and that took a lot of getting used to. While still in IT, you dont do technical things anymore.

That said the increase might help the nest egg given that you're probably looking toward retirement in the next 10-20 years.

Lastly, Ive found that finding good talented individuals is nearly impossible. It's amazing with 93 million people out of the workforce that you cannot find anyone worth their salt to do the job at a high level. If there's one thing that really brings the stress it's that. The other various issues I deal with are just the nature of the job.

I went IT Management (Program Manager) because I just couldn't keep up as a Network Engineer. I'm good at PMing and I know enough technical stuff to be effective.

Agreed on finding quality people. My team is split about 50/50 onshore/off-shore. My off-shore team is far better than my local team. Hands down.

[Predarat]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.

[KCTitus]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.

I'm reminded of the saying, You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

When I talk about people that are not worth their salt, is all they have to do is read the material we give them an follow the directions. During our large scale projects my team develops a 'known issue' document for the helpdesk and my team to share. This document contains all of the most common errors and fixes for those errors. this document is located at the same sharepoint that contains their work schedules.

Ive had people not know of or how to find this document and ask for help when they encouter a known error. Even AFTER having been coached on where to find the document in question.

If they cannot follow that simple of an instruction, it's not worth our time.

[eDave]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.

I expect the person I hire to know what they are doing. Only training they need is internal systems. E.g. Timesheets, Project Server updates, required reporting, etc. Or an overview of the job they are taking on.

[Aspengc8]

I expect the person I hire to know what they are doing. Only training they need is internal systems. E.g. Timesheets, Project Server updates, required reporting, etc. Or an overview of the job they are taking on.

That is what the 'technical' interview is for. I sit in on the first phone interview and get to ask some technical questions to make sure the applicant knows what he put on his resume. Actually just interviewed a guy this morning for a senior level network engineering position that couldn't explain to me how traceroute works or give me its glaring weakness. Also couldnt explain how MPLS works or give any positives/negatives about it. :(

So hard to find good talent locally.

[eDave]

That is what the 'technical' interview is for. I sit in on the first phone interview and get to ask some technical questions to make sure the applicant knows what he put on his resume. Actually just interviewed a guy this morning for a senior level network engineering position that couldn't explain to me how traceroute works or give me its glaring weakness. Also couldnt explain how MPLS works or give any positives/negatives about it. :(

So hard to find good talent locally.

Another reason contract labor is so attractive.

[Predarat]

I'm reminded of the saying, You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

When I talk about people that are not worth their salt, is all they have to do is read the material we give them an follow the directions. During our large scale projects my team develops a 'known issue' document for the helpdesk and my team to share. This document contains all of the most common errors and fixes for those errors. this document is located at the same sharepoint that contains their work schedules.

Ive had people not know of or how to find this document and ask for help when they encouter a known error. Even AFTER having been coached on where to find the document in question.

If they cannot follow that simple of an instruction, it's not worth our time.

Wow holy hell. What range of pay are those people starting at?

[KCTitus]

Wow holy hell. What range of pay are those people starting at?

If I had to guess based upon what I pay the contract agency, they're probably around 50k annually.

[Predarat]

Another reason contract labor is so attractive.
But that can also weed out some of the better candidates. I guess its easier to get rid of people and less risky if they are shit like the people KCNative is describing.

[morphius]

how traceroute works or give me its glaring weakness.

Weakness - It is almost always blocked by firewalls making it nearly useless.

[MahiMike]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.

Pretty much the only training companies are paying for these days is Google. I did learn Java by watching You Tube videos though.

[Predarat]

If I had to guess based upon what I pay the contract agency, they're probably around 50k annually.

That should not be an issue then, but in a way it might be too high. In my current job we have a contractor position, at first we were only approved for around high 30s. We had three people fill that position, 1 was good, 2 were awesome, all 3 very good workers and hungry. The 'good' one got a permanent position at one of his previous contract stints, and our company could not match. The other two awesome contractors got permanent positions within our company and are still knocking it out of the park. After that we got approved for higher level pay for the contract position around high 40s. All three people we hired were absolutely shit. One was a drunk, the other was good but worked very slow and could not accomplish much, the last one was just an outright idiot. We finally found one working close to our department whose contract was about to expire and we took him on and he is doing well, but it took 4 tries. I just find that a bit curious how all the lower pay contractors did great but the higher pay just did not cut it. It may be blind luck, but there might be something to it.

[eDave]

That should not be an issue then, but in a way it might be too high. In my current job we have a contractor position, at first we were only approved for around high 30s. We had three people fill that position, 1 was good, 2 were awesome, all 3 very good workers and hungry. The 'good' one got a permanent position at one of his previous contract stints, and our company could not match. The other two awesome contractors got permanent positions within our company and are still knocking it out of the park. After that we got approved for higher level pay for the contract position around high 40s. All three people we hired were absolutely shit. One was a drunk, the other was good but worked very slow and could not accomplish much, the last one was just an outright idiot. We finally found one working close to our department whose contract was about to expire and we took him on and he is doing well, but it took 4 tries. I just find that a bit curious how all the lower pay contractors did great but the higher pay just did not cut it. It may be blind luck, but there might be something to it.

I always scour other service towers for guys coming up on the end of their K or off a project. The continuity is important.

[Aspengc8]

Weakness - It is almost always blocked by firewalls making it nearly useless.

That's one issue. If a firewall or router is blocking ICMP you wont get that specific device's info back, but the traceroute will still continue until it either gets to the destination host OR the TTL expires. The main problem is that traceroute only gives you one path; you don't get the return path unless someone initiates the trace from the other side (towards you).

[Perineum Ripper]

Stay home work naked...nobody cares

Go into a job naked...you are in HR talking about sexual harassment

[morphius]

That's one issue. If a firewall or router is blocking ICMP you wont get that specific device's info back, but the traceroute will still continue until it either gets to the destination host OR the TTL expires. The main problem is that traceroute only gives you one path; you don't get the return path unless someone initiates the trace from the other side (towards you).

I never would have considered that as a weakness, as that is expected behavior. I know it is true, I just wouldn't have never come up with that as weakness.

Back in 2000 someone asked in an interview how I would troubleshoot two machines not being able to connect over some imaginary network, I completed skipped ping and traceroute. Had to explain that was automatic, first sign of a problem I was running those without blinking, 'cause I'm not even considering at issue with the network until those fail. Somehow still got the job.

[KCTitus]

Back in 2000 someone asked in an interview how I would troubleshoot two machines not being able to connect over some imaginary network, I completed skipped ping and traceroute. Had to explain that was automatic, first sign of a problem I was running those without blinking, 'cause I'm not even considering at issue with the network until those fail. Somehow still got the job.

LOL...sounds like a true network guy! In my 20+ years, I've learned that the network infrastructure, DNS, Proxies, Firewalls, any and all logical networking NEVER have any problems. The fact that a machine fails to make a connection is clearly an OS or client software problem. Then suddenly after 2 weeks of arguing about wireshark captures the problem goes away overnight and 'no one did anything' to fix the problem.

[morphius]

LOL...sounds like a true network guy! In my 20+ years, I've learned that the network infrastructure, DNS, Proxies, Firewalls, any and all logical networking NEVER have any problems. The fact that a machine fails to make a connection is clearly an OS or client software problem. Then suddenly after 2 weeks of arguing about wireshark captures the problem goes away overnight and 'no one did anything' to fix the problem.

I was a UNIX/LINUX OS and hardware guy, I know what you are talking about. Getting all the firewall people, all the router guys, the app guys and both admins for the servers on that call together. Luckily I was a DNS guy as well, so that was second nature.

[MahiMike]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...

[Predarat]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...

Hate to say it, these things are kind of typical in this day and age with the hiring managers/employers holding all the cards with the workforce imbalance the way it is. What a bunch of shitheads. I guess their answer might make the decision easier but hate that for you.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2n2vfAnk1qzhvg4o1_500.gif

[KCTitus]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...

Tell them you dont make a move without Lee and Stan...

/obscure Mr. Mom reference

[Predarat]

Hell they will probably claim they cannot find an American Worker to take the job and hire a cheap foreign worker. Assholes.

[BigRedChief]

If I had to guess based upon what I pay the contract agency, they're probably around 50k annually.you get what you pay for. I've not worked for $50K since desktop support days.

[BigRedChief]

Weakness - It is almost always blocked by firewalls making it nearly useless.And for me a simple fucking Ping is worthless because the security people are paranoid.:)

[BigRedChief]

LOL...sounds like a true network guy! In my 20+ years, I've learned that the network infrastructure, DNS, Proxies, Firewalls, any and all logical networking NEVER have any problems. The fact that a machine fails to make a connection is clearly an OS or client software problem. Then suddenly after 2 weeks of arguing about wireshark captures the problem goes away overnight and 'no one did anything' to fix the problem.Pisses me off. Tech A says my shit works great its Tech B's lousy crap that is the issue. Tech B says his shit works great its Tech A's lousy crap that's broke. I just get people in a room and say there is an issue. It's nobody's fault. Lets put our heads together and figure it out.

[TribalElder]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.
Companies should train their people
I'm reminded of the saying, You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

When I talk about people that are not worth their salt, is all they have to do is read the material we give them an follow the directions. During our large scale projects my team develops a 'known issue' document for the helpdesk and my team to share. This document contains all of the most common errors and fixes for those errors. this document is located at the same sharepoint that contains their work schedules.

Ive had people not know of or how to find this document and ask for help when they encouter a known error. Even AFTER having been coached on where to find the document in question.

If they cannot follow that simple of an instruction, it's not worth our time.
Your system is flawed, the cattle are not heading down the chute. Make the information easier to consume somehow or hire people who are not idiots. Get some interns or fresh grads from centriq or something

I expect the person I hire to know what they are doing. Only training they need is internal systems. E.g. Timesheets, Project Server updates, required reporting, etc. Or an overview of the job they are taking on.
Computer folks always need training. If there is no training you would never get me to sign on. In the tech world your learning or your falling behind.

That is what the 'technical' interview is for. I sit in on the first phone interview and get to ask some technical questions to make sure the applicant knows what he put on his resume. Actually just interviewed a guy this morning for a senior level network engineering position that couldn't explain to me how traceroute works or give me its glaring weakness. Also couldnt explain how MPLS works or give any positives/negatives about it. :(

So hard to find good talent locally.
tracert and mpls encapsulation. Not bad questions. I would think you would ask about the osi layer but for a Sr position yeah that's pretty shitty. HR just wasted your time. Perhaps throw up a pre interview quiz to block that noise. Soon networks will be all sdn anyways right so who needs network engineers lol

That's one issue. If a firewall or router is blocking ICMP you wont get that specific device's info back, but the traceroute will still continue until it either gets to the destination host OR the TTL expires. The main problem is that traceroute only gives you one path; you don't get the return path unless someone initiates the trace from the other side (towards you).
* * * * * :)

And for me a simple ****ing Ping is worthless because the security people are paranoid.:)

ICMP type 8 is your friend bro

[Bearcat]

There are two sides to that story, at least in this area, IT departments seem unwilling to train, and want all their hires to know everything. Its pretty much damn near impossible. They need to be willing to hire someone that has a good base, and train them on the rest. Also they seem to be very impatient, if you are not working efficiently within a few days they just get rid of you and find someone else, who probably falls into the same category and it just goes on until they catch lighting in a bottle. A little investment in your employees can go a long way.

Didn't take me long to realize that I wasn't going to do well at non-IT companies... it's still just an expense to a lot of places. I'm always amused by the job requirements that list experience or some sort of expertise in approximately 40 things.

I do something very similar to 'B'...

The transition from technical person to a manager is not an easy thing. You have to develop entirely new set of skills, which are people skills. As an IT manager that manages over a dozen individuals, when I made the transition, it was a completely different job than my old IT job and that took a lot of getting used to. While still in IT, you dont do technical things anymore.

That said the increase might help the nest egg given that you're probably looking toward retirement in the next 10-20 years.

Lastly, Ive found that finding good talented individuals is nearly impossible. It's amazing with 93 million people out of the workforce that you cannot find anyone worth their salt to do the job at a high level. If there's one thing that really brings the stress it's that. The other various issues I deal with are just the nature of the job.

I'm basically at the point now where I can choose to start the path to project management and then managing people at any time... I've heard some people refer to it as "accidentally becoming a manager." Not sure I'm willing to give up the tech side yet and trade one type of stress for another.

[lewdog]

So much fucking nerd shit in here!!!!!

[eDave]

Didn't take me long to realize that I wasn't going to do well at non-IT companies... it's still just an expense to a lot of places. I'm always amused by the job requirements that list experience or some sort of expertise in approximately 40 things.



I'm basically at the point now where I can choose to start the path to project management and then managing people at any time... I've heard some people refer to it as "accidentally becoming a manager." Not sure I'm willing to give up the tech side yet and trade one type of stress for another.

I recommend Project Management to anyone. And you don't have to let go of the tech stuff if you don't want to. Just assign some things to yourself

It's what I am. I have to re-certify though. Working on that now.

[TribalElder]

I recommend Project Management to anyone. And you don't have to let go of the tech stuff if you don't want to. Just assign some things to yourself

It's what I am. I have to re-certify though. Working on that now.

PMP

[eDave]

PMP

Yup. Let my PUD's slide when I took an Operations role. Moved to Program Manager so I gotta cert up again. ITIL too.

[BigRedChief]

ICMP type 8 is your friend broYou wouldn't believe the hoops I have to jump through sometimes.

[BigRedChief]

Yup. Let my PUD's slide when I took an Operations role. Moved to Program Manager so I gotta cert up again. ITIL too.ITIL was the easiest cert I've got.

[eDave]

ITIL was the easiest cert I've got.

Both are common sense. IMO.

[TribalElder]

The process of process processing

[seamonster]

Always liked how banks have two hundred f'ing servers per app while WhatsApp's entire service for 500 million people can run on like six servers and probably doesnt need full time capacity planners. I'd quite the bank job ASAP as I doubt elixer and funcitonal programming will leave much room in the future for people to capacity plan.

[Bearcat]

I recommend Project Management to anyone. And you don't have to let go of the tech stuff if you don't want to. Just assign some things to yourself

It's what I am. I have to re-certify though. Working on that now.

Well, I'm basically in a tech lead role now, which I think is the best of both worlds... able to delegate and mentor without officially being a manager, and haven't lost too much of the tech side of things.

I agree that moving to project management doesn't mean I'd lose the tech stuff, but the only reason I'd do that would be to eventually move onto management, in which case I think I would.

[TribalElder]

Yup. Let my PUD's slide

So like... Who needs training lol :)

[Miles]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...

Obviously you want the pay increase from changing jobs to at least impact your salary. Sounds like they would like to hire you without the usual benefit of a pay bump.

[Boiled Chicken]

I'm reminded of the saying, You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

When I talk about people that are not worth their salt, is all they have to do is read the material we give them an follow the directions. During our large scale projects my team develops a 'known issue' document for the helpdesk and my team to share. This document contains all of the most common errors and fixes for those errors. this document is located at the same sharepoint that contains their work schedules.

Ive had people not know of or how to find this document and ask for help when they encouter a known error. Even AFTER having been coached on where to find the document in question.

If they cannot follow that simple of an instruction, it's not worth our time.

This is because tons of folks can't be bothered with learning and want you to do the thinking for them. I get asked to send an email to the team with information they already have, but because they didn't or wouldn't read, another email is generated, but this one will work, because it's special.

Hand holding is awful in IT.

[Boiled Chicken]

I recommend Project Management to anyone. And you don't have to let go of the tech stuff if you don't want to. Just assign some things to yourself

It's what I am. I have to re-certify though. Working on that now.

I guess it's a necessary evil, but the pedigree/re-certify stuff, just strikes me as a big racket. Won't hire you unless you've got a pedigree, won't keep you unless your pedigree is current. And if you're lucky 30% will be reimbursed and the rest is a tax write off.

[BigRedChief]

I guess it's a necessary evil, but the pedigree/re-certify stuff, just strikes me as a big racket. Won't hire you unless you've got a pedigree, won't keep you unless your pedigree is current. And if you're lucky 30% will be reimbursed and the rest is a tax write off.I've got over 25 technical certifications. I got the majority of them at Sprint when they paid for the training and tests. Also gave me 5 hours a week to study. I didn't braindump a single one. Wanted to actually learn the material. You are going to have to get by the techinal interview anyway. They are not going to let you slide. It will cause them more work if you fail,

Certifications look nice on a resume and to a dumbass HR type. Doesn't impress me or any other techs. It's what you can do in the real world.

[MahiMike]

I guess it's a necessary evil, but the pedigree/re-certify stuff, just strikes me as a big racket. Won't hire you unless you've got a pedigree, won't keep you unless your pedigree is current. And if you're lucky 30% will be reimbursed and the rest is a tax write off.

Same way I feel about college.

[Lex Luthor]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...
I think I'd walk anyway. What good does a 15% sign on bonus do you in year #2?

[The Franchise]

Update: The recruiter called me with the numbers. They want to pay 15% of my pay increase via bonus - not salary. Since it's almost August, that would be prorated.
I was pissed. Told them I want the 15% as a sign on bonus or walk.

Scheduled to speak w/the recruiter's manager in 30 mins...

So what did they say?

[MahiMike]

So what did they say?

The 15% is an annual bonus so that's pretty good. I've talked to 3 guys on the inside and they all had good things to say about the company. I'm leaning towards taking it now. I have until Monday to decide.