Top 10 Players in AFC West Today

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Matt Miller recently made a video ranking the top 10 players in our division heading into this season... the Chiefs were well represented with 3 of 10, and his list went as follows:

10. Jeremy Maclin
9. Eric Weddle
8. Khalil Mack
7. Peyton Manning
6. Demaryius Thomas
5. Chris Harris Jr.
4. Jamaal Charles
3. Philip Rivers
2. Von Miller
1. Justin Houston

I decided I would give this one a shot myself, and would like to see how everyone else would rank their own. Here is what I personally came up with (remember, this is heading into to 2015, not 2010)

10. Travis Kelce
9. Khalil Mack
8. Jeremy Maclin
7. Philip Rivers
6. Peyton Manning
5. Demaryius Thomas
4. Chris Harris Jr.
3. Von Miller
2. Jamaal Charles
1. Justin Houston

Biased perhaps, sure, but an argument can be made for every player being in their respective place. Until Manning proves to be his old self again, I still think Jamaal, Houston and Miller are the biggest game breakers heading into 2015. Eric Weddle and Antonio Gates just missed my list, but I elected to buy into Kelce's stock.

What does yours look like?!?

[notorious]

10. Not Alex Smith
9. Not Alex Smith
8. Not Alex Smith
7. Not Alex Smith
6. Not Alex Smith
5. Not Alex Smith
4. Not Alex Smith
3. Not Alex Smith
2. Not Alex Smith
1. Not Alex Smith

[Dunerdr]

Antonio gates just missed your list? I've never got the love. I'd have Emanuel sanders over gates fer sho.

[rico]

Von Miller is overrated as hell, IMO.

[Rasputin]

Derrick Johnson is going return with a purpose & be a force for our division to recon with.

[Dunerdr]

Derrick Johnson is going return with a purpose & be a force for our division to recon with.

Still not sure that makes him top 10

[aturnis]

Von Miller is overrated as hell, IMO.

Absolutely. Eric Fisher shut him down for crying out loud.

[Gadzooks]

Holy fuck the off season is so annoying. Coming up with a list of "best players" is as subjective as the Oscars or bands getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
If I were the head guy at Rolling Stone magazine and said the Fat Boys should be in the Hall of Fame for their influence on the Hip-hop community they'd be in. Every other opinion doesn't matter, Cheap Trick? Moody Blues? fuck em, (I'd be right though).
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KXJzYFxXgbY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RealSNR]

Von Miller is overrated as hell, IMO.

Pretty much

[Gadzooks]

The best players on each team, as far as I see it:
Broncos - Manning
Chargers - Rivers
Turds - Carr
Cheufs - Houston

I like the fact that a QB is the best player on my favorite team.

[RealSNR]

The best players on each team, as far as I see it:
Broncos - Manning
Chargers - Rivers
Turds - Hudson
Cheufs - Houston


FYP

[pugsnotdrugs19]

The best players on each team, as far as I see it:
Broncos - Manning
Chargers - Rivers
Turds - Carr
Cheufs - Houston

I like the fact that a QB is the best player on my favorite team.

Carr better than Mack?..... Eh.

[Gadzooks]

Fair enough. I thought Carr did well last year considering his lack of weapons. He actually threw TDs to WRs.:eek:

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.

[RealSNR]

Fair enough. I thought Carr did well last year considering his lack of weapons. He actually threw TDs to WRs.:eek:

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.

Not if your QB is David/Derek/Daniel/Dick/Doodoo/Whatever the fuck his name is Carr

[ThaVirus]

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.


Your rookie QB?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Fair enough. I thought Carr did well last year considering his lack of weapons. He actually threw TDs to WRs.:eek:

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.

Yeah but one of those teams you named with the QB as their best player lost to us twice, once with our backup QB... so IDK it's cool I guess.

[Gadzooks]

Meh, Carr's off to a decent start in my books. I'd put him over Mack in terms of being a "better player".

[TimBone]

Y'all gettin' trolled by the Chargers fan.

[ThaVirus]

Meh, Carr's off to a decent start in my books. I'd put him over Mack in terms of being a "better player".


You're legitimately one of the only people on the planet that would say that at this point.

[DaneMcCloud]

Meh, Carr's off to a decent start in my books. I'd put him over Mack in terms of being a "better player".

Wut

[Gadzooks]

As a rookie OLB, Mack had 4 sacks which is good. He's not on the level where you'd say he's the best player on his team like a Lawrence Taylor or a Justin Houston.
Carr had way more of an impact and kept them in games where a scrub QB would have been demolished.
Sure, it's a sorry state of affairs when you're best player is a rookie QB with the last name Carr but that's my subjective opinion on the Raiders. Too bad for them. Good for us.

[DaneMcCloud]

As a rookie OLB, Mack had 4 sacks which is good. He's not on the level where you'd say he's the best player on his team like a Lawrence Taylor or a Justin Houston.
Carr had way more of an impact and kept them in games where a scrub QB would have been demolished.
Sure, it's a sorry state of affairs when you're best player is a rookie QB with the last name Carr but that's my subjective opinion on the Raiders. Too bad for them. Good for us.
His upside is greater than anyone on their 2014 squad.

2015 is a different the story.

[MagicHef]

Von Miller is overrated as hell, IMO.

The most consistent pass rusher in NFL history is overrated?

[Gadzooks]

The most consistent pass rusher in NFL history is overrated?

A Broncos fan is saying Von Miller is the most consistent pass rusher in NFL history?LMAO

[BigMeatballDave]

The most consistent pass rusher in NFL history is overrated?

LOL You may be the one person in the world who gives a shit about such a useless stat.

[Psyko Tek]

Derrick Johnson is going return with a purpose & be a force for our division to recon with.

Gawd, I hope so

[beach tribe]

The most consistent pass rusher in NFL history is overrated?

OK. tried to google this . WTF are you talking about?

[MagicHef]

A Broncos fan is saying Von Miller is the most consistent pass rusher in NFL history?LMAO

The numbers say it. I'm just relaying the message.

[MagicHef]

OK. tried to google this . WTF are you talking about?

Von has gotten to the QB in 63.3% of his games. Houston, by comparison, has done it in 48.3%.

[MagicHef]

LOL You may be the one person in the world who gives a shit about such a useless stat.

I'm sure you'll love watching Houston sack some terrible QB 4 times and then go on to not even touch Manning, again.

[jonzie04]

Von Miller is overrated as hell, IMO.

You're higher than a Kite.

Guy has MORE career sacks than Houston in LESS games and he has nearly twice as many forced fumbles. I hate the broncos but I have to give credit where it's due. The guy is an animal and he is absolutely Justin Houstons equal.

[jonzie04]

I'm sure you'll love watching Houston sack some terrible QB 4 times and then go on to not even touch Manning, again.

Right because rivers, manning, Ben and Brady all suck right?

9 of houstons 22 sacks came from those 4 guys last year.

Von only managed 2 sacks on elite qbs last year. By sacking rivers once and Wilson once.

Like I said earlier I view Von and Houston as equals. But if anyone is feasting on mid tier qbs its Von.

[Rasputin]

Still not sure that makes him top 10


If you are keeping DJ out of the top ten for concerns about his health and durability for the season then fine, but I'm putting him in there for his knowledge, hunger for the game, and his knack of getting interceptions and taking them to the house. He is more than capable for doing that changing games around in any quarter. So don't underestimate the return of Derrick Johnson. He is a SS in a LB body.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm sure you'll love watching Houston sack some terrible QB 4 times and then go on to not even touch Manning, again.

NFL players think Houston is better than Miller now.

Bitch. I hope you get a flesh-eating virus in your vagina.

[BigMeatballDave]

The numbers say it. I'm just relaying the message.

You're trolling. Per usual.

Run along now, your BF wants his salad tossed.

[Gadzooks]

Right because rivers, manning, Ben and Brady all suck right?

9 of houstons 22 sacks came from those 4 guys last year.

Von only managed 2 sacks on elite qbs last year. By sacking rivers once and Wilson once.

Like I said earlier I view Von and Houston as equals. But if anyone is feasting on mid tier qbs its Von.

The Chargers had a shit O-Line last year and got into deep injuriy problems, to the point where they even ended up using a 6th string center.

Houston got a lot of stats by dry raping that depleted line in Week 17, so, I get MagicHef's point.

It's still weak sauce though. There are so many variables to consider when trying to evaluate "efficiency" or "consistency"

That's why these lists are stupid to begin with.

[beach tribe]

Von has gotten to the QB in 63.3% of his games. Houston, by comparison, has done it in 48.3%.

How do the games after he was busted for amphetamines look?

I'll check in periodically. I'm guessing that figure never comes, though.

[Aspengc8]

Still not sure that makes him top 10

He was a top 10 LB in the entire league before his injury. He will be back to that level.

[MagicHef]

How do the games after he was busted for amphetamines look?

I'll check in periodically. I'm guessing that figure never comes, though.

2013 was not good for Von, it was a Houstonesque 44.4%.

2014 was right back to normal though, at 62.5%.

[beach tribe]

2013 was not good for Von, it was a Houstonesque 44.4%.

2014 was right back to normal though, at 62.5%.

2014 Sacks FF Tkls PD

Houston: 22.0 4 59 5
Miller: 14.5 1 46 2

Houston had a sack in 13 of 16 games in 2014 for a WHOPPING 81% of games he got to the QB.
:LOL:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HousJu00/gamelog//

[beach tribe]

The last TWO seasons

Houston gets to the QB in 73% of games

Von Miller: 53%

PWND

Not even close. Nice try.

[MagicHef]

The last TWO seasons

Houston gets to the QB in 73% of games

Von Miller: 53%

PWND

Not even close. Nice try.

Weird, I was using entire careers for both, but it seems like if you cherry pick the data, you can get the result you want.

[RunKC]

If you're going to throw out the excuse that Houston took care of weak opposition, then the same applies to JJ Watt.

He got 10 sacks alone on the Jags and Titans line playing both twice a year.

So half of his sack total came against offensive lines that gave up 71 and 50 sacks.

[RunKC]

Weird, I was using entire careers for both, but it seems like if you cherry pick the data, you can get the result you want.

Houston wasn't the same player his first year that he is now. He obviously had a rookie learning curve in 2011 and didn't get any sacks until the Bears game when he started coming together for him.

Since that game he's had 49.5 sacks. So that's 49.5 sacks in his last 50 games (counting the playoff game in 2013).

49.5 sacks in 50 games and 22 in his last 16=elite. Bottom line Von hasn't had as good of a season as Houston rushing the passer.

I'm taking Houston right now.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

10 De Anthony Thomas
9 Ron Parker
8 Sean Smith
7 Peyton Manning
6 Derrick Johnson
5 Dontarie Poe
4 Travis Kelce
3 Jeremy Maclin
2 Jamaal Charles
1 Justin Houston

[Tombstone RJ]

I decided I would give this one a shot myself, and would like to see how everyone else would rank their own. Here is what I personally came up with (remember, this is heading into to 2015, not 2010)

10. Travis Kelce
9. Khalil Mack
8. Jeremy Maclin
7. Philip Rivers
6. Peyton Manning
5. Demaryius Thomas
4. Chris Harris Jr.
3. Von Miller
2. Jamaal Charles
1. Justin Houston

Biased perhaps, sure, but an argument can be made for every player being in their respective place. Until Manning proves to be his old self again, I still think Jamaal, Houston and Miller are the biggest game breakers heading into 2015. Eric Weddle and Antonio Gates just missed my list, but I elected to buy into Kelce's stock.

What does yours look like?!?

KC wins offseason again!

"It's good to be a kc fan, winning every June and July. Best players, best coaches, best ownership, you know darn well da bestest fans too!"
---little chiefy

[beach tribe]

Weird, I was using entire careers for both, but it seems like if you cherry pick the data, you can get the result you want.

Yeah, I know.

And if this were three years ago, Von would still be putting up better numbers at a faster pace!

Unfortunately, what happened 3 years ago doesn't mean shit.

Houston has FN Owned Von for 2 straight seasons.

Party like it's 2012 if you want. When Houston was dropping into coverage under Crennel, and Von was blasting like a locomotive on amphetamines.

[Coochie liquor]

10 De Anthony Thomas
9 Ron Parker
8 Sean Smith
7 Peyton Manning
6 Derrick Johnson
5 Dontarie Poe
4 Travis Kelce
3 Jeremy Maclin
2 Jamaal Charles
1 Justin Houston

My man.... I like your style!!

[Chiefnj2]

1. Manning.
2. Charles.
3. Houston
4 -10 up for debate.

[Titty Meat]

Fair enough. I thought Carr did well last year considering his lack of weapons. He actually threw TDs to WRs.:eek:

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.

He threw most his tds in garbage time

[thabear04]

10 De Anthony Thomas
9 Ron Parker
8 Sean Smith
7 Peyton Manning
6 Derrick Johnson
5 Dontarie Poe
4 Travis Kelce
3 Jeremy Maclin
2 Jamaal Charles
1 Justin Houston

http://www.canadianis.com/funny/joker-clap.gif

[BossChief]

1. Houston
2. Manning
3. Charles
4. Thomas
5. Rivers
6. Miller
7. Harris
8. Maclin
9. Kelce
10. Sanders or Poe

[Titty Meat]

Manning
Thomas
Charles
Houston
Rivers
Mack
Sanders
Gates
Miller
Poe

[Rain Man]

Jamaal Charles
Justin Houston
Dontari Poe
Sean Smith
Tamba Hali
Anthony Sherman
Dustin Colquitt
Derrick Johnson
Allen Bailey
Ben Grubbs

You people are disloyal.

[Molitoth]

I like Houston... but Charles is more important to the Chiefs than he at this time.
Considering Alex Smith and Andy Reid.

[Titty Meat]

I like Houston... but Charles is more important to the Chiefs than he at this time.
Considering Alex Smith and Andy Reid.

They scored 44 points without Charles and gave up a bunch without Houston

[beach tribe]

I like Houston... but Charles is more important to the Chiefs than he at this time.
Considering Alex Smith and Andy Reid.

Maybe more important but not more valuable.

[DC.chief]

1. Fisher
2. Fulton
3. Allen
4. Kush
5. Duvernay-Tardif
6. Morse
7. Fanaika
8. Frye
9. Sherrod
10. Bray

[beach tribe]

Charles (Good n' Healthy)
Houston (16 sacks)
Rivers (Big year from hissy fit)
Mack (Scary dude gets scarier)
Miller (More of the same)
Manning (Career over but still playing by week 7)
Thomas (Achievement unlocked: Legend status. Pick plays now legal for Manning WRs
Sanders (Good player)
Poe (What we've seen is what we'll get. Double team magnet.
DJ (Have a gut feeling, he's about to beast)

[beach tribe]

They scored 44 points without Charles and gave up a bunch without Houston

Don't bet on Alex putting up 390 yards and 4tds anytime soon, sport.

Good thing he won't have to.

[ViperVisor]

I have a feeling Demaryius Thomas limited skill at the WR position compared to his physical talent is being hidden by his QB with ultimate timing and accuracy.

[vailpass]

I have a feeling Demaryius Thomas limited skill at the WR position compared to his physical talent is being hidden by his QB with ultimate timing and accuracy.

Oh me too. Good call.

[notorious]

They are all good players boosted by the talent around them (except Manning, Rivers, and Charles).


Houston gets a ton of help by being surround by badasses that take a lot of heat off of him, and Von Miller gets a sack stat boost by getting the benefit of rushing the passer more due to a Peyton-led lead most of the time.

Hell, even Bill Polian said that he drafted pure speed pass rushers because he expected the other team to pass more due to Peyton Manning scoring a shitload.

[Titty Meat]

Don't bet on Alex putting up 390 yards and 4tds anytime soon, sport.

Good thing he won't have to.

I won't but if you look at the Chiefs record without Charles it's actually a winning record vs without Houston which is a losing one.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

10. Not Alex Smith
9. Not Alex Smith
8. Not Alex Smith
7. Not Alex Smith
6. Not Alex Smith
5. Not Alex Smith
4. Not Alex Smith
3. Not Alex Smith
2. Not Alex Smith
1. Not Alex Smith

LMAO

Oh fuck I laughed.

[beach tribe]

I won't but if you look at the Chiefs record without Charles it's actually a winning record vs without Houston which is a losing one.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/bbeal29/94290-I-did-not-know-that-gif-Waynes-Eu3m_zpskghirgnb.gif (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/bbeal29/media/94290-I-did-not-know-that-gif-Waynes-Eu3m_zpskghirgnb.gif.html)

[aturnis]

You're higher than a Kite.

Guy has MORE career sacks than Houston in LESS games and he has nearly twice as many forced fumbles. I hate the broncos but I have to give credit where it's due. The guy is an animal and he is absolutely Justin Houstons equal.

Von Miller has started more games, played more snaps and I haven't Ford the stat, but pretty sure he's had more pass riding stats

[aturnis]

2013 was not good for Von, it was a Houstonesque 44.4%.

2014 was right back to normal though, at 62.5%.

On what percentage of snaps is Von rushing the passer, what percent dropping into coverage?

[aturnis]

The last TWO seasons

Houston gets to the QB in 73% of games

Von Miller: 53%

PWND

Not even close. Nice try.

Houston played sparingly his rookie season b/c of the coaching staffs philosophy. That career stat is incredibly deflated.

[aturnis]

Weird, I was using entire careers for both, but it seems like if you cherry pick the data, you can get the result you want.

How many career snaps for each? Career pass pass riding snaps?

[aturnis]

Houston wasn't the same player his first year that he is now. He obviously had a rookie learning curve in 2011 and didn't get any sacks until the Bears game when he started coming together for him.

Since that game he's had 49.5 sacks. So that's 49.5 sacks in his last 50 games (counting the playoff game in 2013).

49.5 sacks in 50 games and 22 in his last 16=elite. Bottom line Von hasn't had as good of a season as Houston rushing the passer.

I'm taking Houston right now.

Had nothing to do with "him not being the player". Crenell left him on the bench to learn. When he did see the field in his first 7-9 games, he as dropped into coverage.

They knew he could rush the passer, but wanted him to become a complete player. They forced him to prove he could cover and defend the run.

The result, the leagues best OLB by a wide margin.

[aturnis]

Manning
Thomas
Charles
Houston
Rivers
Mack
Sanders
Gates
Miller
Poe

Mack and Gates? :spock:

[O.city]

Mack will end up being better than houston and miller. No slight to them, but he's gonna be really freaking good.

And is it just me or is D. Thomas just not as advertised? I know his stats are what they are, but how is he that much different than decker?

[ThaVirus]

Mack will end up being better than houston and miller. No slight to them, but he's gonna be really freaking good.

And is it just me or is D. Thomas just not as advertised? I know his stats are what they are, but how is he that much different than decker?


Better than both? Holy hell. I just can't see that. Those two are fucking phenomenal. Hands down the two best OLBs in the game and it isn't very close.

[O.city]

Better than both? Holy hell. I just can't see that. Those two are ****ing phenomenal. Hands down the two best OLBs in the game and it isn't very close.

Mack has to polish as a rusher no doubt, but he's already so good

[ThaVirus]

Mack has to polish as a rusher no doubt, but he's already so good


He's really good; I just can't see him being better than Houston and Miller.

Miller came out of the gate with like 15 or 18 sacks in his rookie season didn't he? And Houston damn near set the single season sack record.

[ThaVirus]

Miller and Houston are just so great and complete on top of it all.

[Tombstone RJ]

Von Miller has started more games, played more snaps and I haven't Ford the stat, but pretty sure he's had more pass riding stats

I'd love to see a link showing Miller has more snaps than Houston.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Von Miller smokes more weed than Justin Houston.

FACT !

[Mile High Mania]

I'd love to see a link showing Miller has more snaps than Houston.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Last 3 seasons (total snaps per season):
VM (2,419) - 910 / 544 / 965
JH (2,862) - 1,033 / 733 / 1096

In the last 4 seasons... (miller was hurt last year)
Von Miller has played in and started 56 games.
Houston has played in 59 and started 53 games.

3 fewer games, but 400+ more snaps played...

[Tombstone RJ]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Last 3 seasons (total snaps per season):
VM (2,419) - 910 / 544 / 965
JH (2,862) - 1,033 / 733 / 1096

In the last 4 seasons... (miller was hurt last year)
Von Miller has played in and started 56 games.
Houston has played in 59 and started 53 games.

3 fewer games, but 400+ more snaps played...

To sum up, Miller has 2,416 snaps the last 3 seasons and Houston has 2,862 snaps the last 3 seasons. Even with their rookie seasons (2011) I don't think Miller's total snap count would exceed or be even with Houston's snap count (Houston has 446 more snaps than Miller over the last 3 years).

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I don't know why ANYBODY would argue Houston vrs Miller. Just look at their physique.

Miller is a douche and will be bagging groceries soon.

[aturnis]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Last 3 seasons (total snaps per season):
VM (2,419) - 910 / 544 / 965
JH (2,862) - 1,033 / 733 / 1096

In the last 4 seasons... (miller was hurt last year)
Von Miller has played in and started 56 games.
Houston has played in 59 and started 53 games.

3 fewer games, but 400+ more snaps played...

Right. The relevant data though is their rookie seasons.

[aturnis]

To sum up, Miller has 2,416 snaps the last 3 seasons and Houston has 2,862 snaps the last 3 seasons. Even with their rookie seasons (2011) I don't think Miller's total snap count would exceed or be even with Houston's snap count (Houston has 446 more snaps than Miller over the last 3 years).

You realize Houston played very little his rookie season right?

[Tombstone RJ]

You realize Houston played very little his rookie season right?

but he played his rookie season, right? Go find the numbers of total snaps for both Houston and Miller and then add them up with the last 3 years and lets see if Miller has more snaps or if Houston has more snaps. I'm thinking Houston has more snaps and at best, Miller and Houston snap count totals are even.

[vailpass]

FFS. Is this really a thing?

[IowaChiefs83]

Fair enough. I thought Carr did well last year considering his lack of weapons. He actually threw TDs to WRs.:eek:

My point is that your best player should ideally be your QB.

When you really think about it less than half of the leagues starting QBs are unquestionably their respective teams best player.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm sorry; is someone actually caring about tired-ass Von Miller up in here?

Okay...

[BigMeatballDave]

Isn't Von one failed test from getting a yr off? Fuck that guy.

Houston fucks him all day without the courtesy of a reach-around.

[BigMeatballDave]

Here's a stat: Von Miller once got his ass handed to him by Eric Fisher.

[MagicHef]

Here's a stat: Von Miller once got his ass handed to him by Eris Fisher.

In the 2 years that Fisher has been in the NFL (which also happen to be Von's worst years, and Houston's best years), these are the pass rushing stats in KC vs. DEN games for Von and Houston:

3 sacks, 1 hit, 19 hurries

1 sack, 0 hits, 5 hurries

Which is which?

[ThaVirus]

In the 2 years that Fisher has been in the NFL (which also happen to be Von's worst years, and Houston's best years), these are the pass rushing stats in KC vs. DEN games for Von and Houston:



3 sacks, 1 hit, 19 hurries



1 sack, 0 hits, 5 hurries



Which is which?


Not a fair comparison and you know that. Peyton is the least sacked QB in league history.

[MagicHef]

Right. The relevant data though is their rookie seasons.

Miller played 1,016 snaps in 2011, Houston played 773.

Which means Houston has played more snaps overall.

[MagicHef]

Not a fair comparison and you know that. Peyton is the least sacked QB in league history.

He's literally had an impact on 6 passing plays vs DEN over 2 years.

[ThaVirus]

He's literally had an impact on 6 passing plays vs DEN over 2 years.

To be fair, let's hear Houston's percentage of pass rush snaps and the average percentage of Peyton's dropbacks that are disrupted.

[ThaVirus]

He's literally had an impact on 6 passing plays vs DEN over 2 years.

This isn't entirely correct anyway. I know he's had at least one pass batted down against Peytie Pie in addition to the recorded sacks and hurries.

[MagicHef]

To be fair, let's hear Houston's percentage of pass rush snaps and the average percentage of Peyton's dropbacks that are disrupted.

This isn't entirely correct anyway. I know he's had at least one pass batted down against Peytie Pie in addition to the recorded sacks and hurries.

Houston has rushed on 60% of snaps vs DEN.

He's disrupted 9.1% of Peyton's dropbacks (including his 4 batted passes).

Von has disrupted 10.8% of Alex's dropbacks.

[RunKC]

He's literally had an impact on 6 passing plays vs DEN over 2 years.

Justin Houston has an impact on every single passing play vs everybody. If you really think Manning isn't scheming to get the ball out in less than 2 seconds or making an audible to change the play based on where Houston is lined up than you simply don't know football.

Guarantee that when Peyton Manning breaks the huddle his first thought is "where is #50 lined up?".

[ThaVirus]

Houston has rushed on 60% of snaps vs DEN.

He's disrupted 9.1% of Peyton's dropbacks (including his 4 batted passes).

Von has disrupted 10.8% of Alex's dropbacks.

Perfect, thank you.

We can probably agree that the luxury of going against Eric Fisher and Ryan Harris while rushing a QB that's notorious for eating sacks like Alex Smith to the grind of going against a capable Orlando Franklin and trying to get a hand on the least sacked QB in NFL history more than makes up for that 1.7%? Especially considering you guys have held the lead in probably 85% of those gametime minutes.

Do you honestly believe, assuming all things remain the same but with the roles reversed, that Von Miller would enjoy more success rushing Peyton than Houston has?

[MagicHef]

Perfect, thank you.

We can probably agree that the luxury of going against Eric Fisher and Ryan Harris while rushing a QB that's notorious for eating sacks like Alex Smith to the grind of going against a capable Orlando Franklin and trying to get a hand on the least sacked QB in NFL history more than makes up for that 1.7%? Especially considering you guys have held the lead in probably 85% of those gametime minutes.

Do you honestly believe, assuming all things remain the same but with the roles reversed, that Von Miller would enjoy more success rushing Peyton than Houston has?

Hard to say, obviously.

Overall, Houston has disrupted 11.6% of pass plays throughout his career, and Von has disrupted 12.6% of pass plays. Houston doesn't play against Peyton every week.

[RunKC]

Hard to say, obviously.

Overall, Houston has disrupted 11.6% of pass plays throughout his career, and Von has disrupted 12.6% of pass plays. Houston doesn't play against Peyton every week.

This information isn't indicating success today.

I wonder what the average is between the 2 the last 2 seasons withholding the 2 games played against the each division rival.

[O.city]

Looks to me like Miller and Houston are pretty similar players over the long haul?

[ThaVirus]

Hard to say, obviously.

Overall, Houston has disrupted 11.6% of pass plays throughout his career, and Von has disrupted 12.6% of pass plays. Houston doesn't play against Peyton every week.

That's fair enough, I suppose.

You've admitted recently that Houston is currently the better player while I've conceded that Miller's had the better career thus far so we're really just splitting hairs. They have nearly identical amounts of time played and sack totals. Both have 3 Pro Bowl and 1 first-team All-Pro accolades. Houston has more tackles, passes defended, fumble recoveries and safeties. Miller has more forced fumbles and a TD.

[RunKC]

It's not fair to look at career numbers at this point bc Houston obviously wasnt the player he was at the beginning of his career.

And Bronco fans are using that to prove a point.

[ThaVirus]

It's not fair to look at career numbers at this point bc Houston obviously wasnt the player he was at the beginning of his career.

And Bronco fans are using that to prove a point.

Of course it's fair as long as it's taken into account. Houston suited up and played those games. They were recorded and now they'll be used in his judgment.

With that said, in retrospect, I'd certainly prefer Houston's career arc to Miller's. Houston's legitimately gotten better every year and that makes you wonder if he's yet to even peak. I get the feeling that we've already seen the best that Miller has to offer. Not that that's a bad thing; he's an A player for sure.

[MGM]

Charles is the best player in the AFC West. Don't over think it.

[Tombstone RJ]

Charles is the best player in the AFC West. Don't over think it.

This is true in that no other offensive player (outside of QB) has more of an impact on their team than JC...