ESPN Kiper's Ranking NFL's top 20 rookies (so far)

[Trivers]

Ridiculously early to be ranking....but still....

2 of the top 3.....

Anybody having access to the full list can list the rest.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13726879/the-kansas-city-chiefs-marcus-peters-tops-mel-kiper-rookie-rankings-nfl

__________________________________________________________

And we're off once again. For the past few seasons, I've been ranking the rookies, a true test of patience for me -- notice how they aren't in the same order as the final Big Board before the draft. But it's a fun exercise as we see over and over when it comes to rookies, it's not just about talent, but about fit, need and how quickly players develop according to plan.

Here are the parameters, same as always:

This is a measure for all games this season, not just last week.

Total snap count matters. Staying on the field is a measure of value.

Positional value matters, but overall performance and impact on the team matter more.

Relative value matters. I ask: Would this player be a starter on most teams or on a good team?

Here's my latest ranking of the top 20 rookies in the NFL.


1. Marcus Peters, CB, Kansas City Chiefs

Heading into the draft, I wrote "On tape alone, he has an argument as the top cornerback in the class." Peters looks like it so far. He has an interception in each of his first two games, including a pick-six against Peyton Manning in Week 2. So far, so good.


2. Marcus Mariota, QB, Tennessee Titans

The Week 2 loss in Cleveland was a step down from his Week 1 explosion against Tampa Bay, but Mariota has a 6/0 TD/INT ratio so far and has already dispelled any notion the Titans are only starting him because they need to justify the high pick. He belongs.


3. Mitch Morse, C, Kansas City Chiefs

I knew the Chiefs were interested in Morse going into the draft, but I can tell you they had him rated a lot higher than I did. This is a case of them seeing a perfect fit, and Morse has looked the part of a veteran through two games.

[ptlyon]

So we got that going for us, which is nice

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

AND we won the preseason !

[staylor26]

Wait I read on CP that Dorsey isn't a fantastic talent evaluator bc he screwed up the #1 overall pick in the worst draft class ever

[Mav]

Wait I read on CP that Dorsey isn't a fantastic talent evaluator bc he screwed up the #1 overall pick in the worst draft class ever


Well at this point I'm way more frustrated with the Dee Ford pick than I am about Eric Fisher. At least in the Fisher draft it was all shit. There were REAL options besides Dee Ford.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Wait I read on CP that Dorsey isn't a fantastic talent evaluator bc he screwed up the #1 overall pick in the worst draft class everEh, you've also read on CP that Morse is garbage. People here are pretty stupid.

[kcchiefsus]

Doesn't mean shit without a quarterback.

[Trivers]

Doesn't mean shit without a quarterback.

A quarterback, all by himself, ensures a SB quality team. :banghead:

Can we try to stay on topic, hummm??

[thabear04]

Doesn't mean shit without a quarterback.

http://youthclassic.org/banquet_images/dilfer03.jpg

[aturnis]

Eh, you've also read on CP that Morse is garbage. People here are pretty stupid.
I don't think this is true. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only slander against him was that he was taken too high.

[aturnis]

A quarterback, all by himself, ensures a SB quality team. :banghead:

Can we try to stay on topic, hummm??

http://youthclassic.org/banquet_images/dilfer03.jpg
Ooh the stupidity...

[suzzer99]

Pretty sure that Ravens D could have stopped 2015 Peyton Manning when they absolutely needed to. Our D is good but not dominant.

[Eleazar]

I read on CP that Morse was a terrible pick and that Kush was going to start at center.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I don't think this is true. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only slander against him was that he was taken too high.

Here you go.



Mitch Morse can suck a cock.

Jeremy Maclin is stealing money.



Mitch Morse was a disaster. You can't be serious.

Maclin looked like he didn't belong on the field. Simply outclassed by the competition. Regarding his draft position, if he's the highest guy on your board at a position of need, why wouldn't you draft him?

[aturnis]

Here you go.
When was this from?

[Pitt Gorilla]

When was this from?Last week.

[aturnis]

Well, I can't say I've ever thought Bambi was a smart person...

Still though, this is one person. I don't think Morse being garbage has been a true narrative around here.

[Saccopoo]

http://decisionlens.com/

[Chiefnj2]

I thought Morse was a crappy pick. In college he couldn't snap the ball. I couldn't fathom why they declared him to be a center and not a guard. He's doing great and has already proved my opinion wrong.

[BlackOp]

Pretty sure that Ravens D could have stopped 2015 Peyton Manning when they absolutely needed to. Our D is good but not dominant.

Flemming wouldn't have been on the field....S. Smith cant get back soon enough.

NFL surely looked into who KC was playing before adding another arbitrary game to his suspension...Golden boy on national TV. Smith pairing with how Peters has been playing....and moving Gaines over...will make a big difference.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

But but but CPs top secret sources said he couldn't snap a football and was botching snaps in the hotel room prior to season opener

[suzzer99]

Then that means we're one injury away from being a losing team. No secondary depth. That still isn't good. How many years do both CBs stay healthy all year? 10-20%?

[chiefzilla1501]

Well at this point I'm way more frustrated with the Dee Ford pick than I am about Eric Fisher. At least in the Fisher draft it was all shit. There were REAL options besides Dee Ford.

Meh. I never liked the Fisher pick. But you can never have enough pass rushers. And his inability to see the field doesn't seem to be a talent issue. If he pans out, I would gladly take a playmaker over just another solid guy.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Then that means we're one injury away from being a losing team. No secondary depth. That still isn't good. How many years do both CBs stay healthy all year? 10-20%?

:spock: Nobody in this league has three solid corners and four safeties like the Chiefs do. That is pretty damn good depth.

[suzzer99]

:spock: Nobody in this league has three solid corners and four safeties like the Chiefs do. That is pretty damn good depth.

Then why do other teams not let gimpy duck-ball Manning slice through their secondary like a hot knife through butter?

You can't tell me every team either a) has to start someone as godawful Fleming at CB if one goes down or b) can't come up with a better scheme to keep him from getting exposed so badly.

Manning's last drive last Thursday was pretty much the exact same thing Luck did to us in the playoffs. Sutton's had 2 years to plan for how to handle a missing CB, which he knew was going to happen coming into the DEN game. Yet I still see our secondary just laying down and dying when we absolutely need a stop. It's frustrating and painful.

Why not just send Berry over to help Fleming on every play? Manning can't throw the deep ball anyway. It's like we play the same way vs. Manning as Rodgers.

I haven't spent hours studying film - but have a feeling our secondary schemes are uncreative and 10 years old - vs. say a team like Seattle which just annihilates Manning. Given Reid's old-school take on clock-management and 4th downs, it wouldn't surprise me if our secondary scheme is also a leak.

[Kiimo]

Doesn't mean shit without a quarterback.

Shut up shut up shut up. #1 problem with this site is nobody can post something positive without this shit popping up from the naysayers. Shut up.




Shut.


Up.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Then why do other teams not let gimpy duck-ball Manning slice through their secondary like a hot knife through butter?

You can't tell me every team either a) has to start someone as godawful Fleming at CB if one goes down or b) can't come up with a better scheme to keep him from getting exposed so badly.

Manning's last drive last Thursday was pretty much the exact same thing Luck did to us in the playoffs. Sutton's had 2 years to plan for how to handle a missing CB, which he knew was going to happen coming into the DEN game. Yet I still see our secondary just laying down and dying when we absolutely need a stop. It's frustrating and painful.

Why not just send Berry over to help Fleming on every play? Manning can't throw the deep ball anyway. It's like we play the same way vs. Manning as Rodgers.

I have a feeling our secondary schemes are by the book and 10 years old - vs. say a team like Seattle which just annihilates Manning.

17 points allowed is perfectly acceptable. You forget all the offensive turnovers and horrible third downs giving Denver extra possessions??? Manning put more than that up in Seattle last year.

[suzzer99]

17 points allowed is perfectly acceptable. You forget all the offensive turnovers and horrible third downs giving Denver extra possessions??? Manning put more than that up in Seattle last year.

We can't get a stop when we need to. If we'd have scored 24 Manning would have score 30. As soon as they abandoned the running game we were fucked.

One more fucking stop in the Colts playoff game. One stop vs. Manning 2 years ago. We never get the stops when we need them.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Denver had like 15 possessions which is ridiculous. Give the old man extra chances you lose. That's on the offense. Defense did their job Thursday.

[vailpass]

Flemming wouldn't have been on the field....S. Smith cant get back soon enough.

NFL surely looked into who KC was playing before adding another arbitrary game to his suspension...Golden boy on national TV. Smith pairing with how Peters has been playing....and moving Gaines over...will make a big difference.

:LOL:

Show us on the pony doll where Elway hurt you...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I'm not sure he's wrong Vail. The suspension was a total joke for three games.

[ThaVirus]

Then why do other teams not let gimpy duck-ball Manning slice through their secondary like a hot knife through butter?

You can't tell me every team either a) has to start someone as godawful Fleming at CB if one goes down or b) can't come up with a better scheme to keep him from getting exposed so badly.

Manning's last drive last Thursday was pretty much the exact same thing Luck did to us in the playoffs. Sutton's had 2 years to plan for how to handle a missing CB, which he knew was going to happen coming into the DEN game. Yet I still see our secondary just laying down and dying when we absolutely need a stop. It's frustrating and painful.

Why not just send Berry over to help Fleming on every play? Manning can't throw the deep ball anyway. It's like we play the same way vs. Manning as Rodgers.

I haven't spent hours studying film - but have a feeling our secondary schemes are uncreative and 10 years old - vs. say a team like Seattle which just annihilates Manning. Given Reid's old-school take on clock-management and 4th downs, it wouldn't surprise me if our secondary scheme is also a leak.


We do tend to not get what we need to win games. That's a team-wide issue though. We always seem to be JUST short. We can't get that final 3rd down to ice the game, we can't punch it in the end zone to win the game, we can't get in field goal range to tie the game, we can't get an INT on the final drive to win the game, etc. I mean, obviously we do it occasionally, but more often than not, in crunch time situations, we lose.

I will say, though, that Manning isn't gimpy and they bucked Kube's offense, which is the reason Manning looked like shit in week 1, while they were driving on us. They were also so clearly targeting Fleming, who is our 4th string CB, that you have to hope it won't be a recurring theme this season. With all of the turnovers and Fleming's shitbaggedness against us, we really only allowed 24 points.

[saphojunkie]

I think Dee Ford will be starting over Tamba before the second half of the season, frankly.

[suzzer99]

We do tend to not get what we need to win games. That's a team-wide issue though. We always seem to be JUST short. We can't get that final 3rd down to ice the game, we can't punch it in the end zone to win the game, we can't get in field goal range to tie the game, we can't get an INT on the final drive to win the game, etc. I mean, obviously we do it occasionally, but more often than not, in crunch time situations, we lose.

I will say, though, that Manning isn't gimpy and they bucked Kube's offense, which is the reason Manning looked like shit in week 1, while they were driving on us. They were also so clearly targeting Fleming, who is our 4th string CB, that you have to hope it won't be a recurring theme this season. With all of the turnovers and Fleming's shitbaggedness against us, we really only allowed 24 points.

Yeah Alex also can't get one fucking drive when we absolutely need it. Certainly a lot of the blame is on him. But we know he sucks and there's like 8 good QBs in the league. We could have spent every first round pick for the last decade on QBs and still be in the same boat.

Secondary should be a lot easier to toughen up.

[suzzer99]

I think Dee Ford will be starting over Tamba before the second half of the season, frankly.

I don't think I've ever seen a player with worse football instincts than Dee Ford. Even if he gets in the backfield he spazzes out and misses by a mile most of the time.

[ThaVirus]

Yeah Alex also can't get one fucking drive when we absolutely need it. Certainly a lot of the blame is on him. But we know he sucks and there's like 8 good QBs in the league. We could have spent every first round pick for the last decade on QBs and still be in the same boat.

Secondary should be a lot easier to toughen up.


Our secondary is pretty great. Peters is phenomenal, thus far. Sean Smith, assuming he maintains his productivity from last season, is a top 8-ish (or better) CB in the league, and Gaines has held down the slot wonderfully.

I don't think I need to mention our safeties. We've got the best unit, including depth, in the league.

We were just facing a HOF QB with two A+ WRs. Seriously. Demaryius Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders are both incredible.

[suzzer99]

Other teams can shut down Manning much better than us. We needed a better scheme when Fleming was in there. Manning never even hit 4th down on that final drive. That sucks.

I'm not going to get my hopes up for this team too much until we show we can stop a great QB when we need to - at least some of the time.

[ThaVirus]

Other teams can shut down Manning much better than us. We needed a better scheme when Fleming was in there. Manning never even hit 4th down on that final drive. That sucks.


It's probably scheme.

We held him to 17 points in 2012 when we had one of the worst defenses in franchise history.

We've had MUCH better units in the last two seasons and haven't been able to keep him under 24.

It's really fucking annoying.

[aturnis]

But but but CPs top secret sources said he couldn't snap a football and was botching snaps in the hotel room prior to season opener
He couldn't snap the ball in college. That's on tape. What's your point?

[vailpass]

I'm not sure he's wrong Vail. The suspension was a total joke for three games.

Brother, don't. He got 3 games because he DUI'd and then proceeded to strike a light pole breaking it in half.

There is no conspiracy for Manning and, even if there was, do you think they'd feel the need to protect him from a team he has this kind of record against?:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap2000000280507/Mind-blowing-stats-Peyton-Manning-vs-the-Chiefs

[aturnis]

We can't get a stop when we need to. If we'd have scored 24 Manning would have score 30. As soon as they abandoned the running game we were fucked.

One more fucking stop in the Colts playoff game. One stop vs. Manning 2 years ago. We never get the stops when we need them.
Our 4th corner was on the field. Get over it.

[suzzer99]

Why was he covering Sanders 1 on 1?

[vailpass]

Why was he covering Sanders 1 on 1?

He wasn't...:evil:

[TEX]

Mitch Morse is already better at his position than Eric Fisher has ever been at his...:shake:

[TEX]

It's probably scheme.

We held him to 17 points in 2012 when we had one of the worst defenses in franchise history.

We've had MUCH better units in the last two seasons and haven't been able to keep him under 24.

It's really ****ing annoying.

He finds our weakest link and attacks. Still, the Chiefs had PLENTY of chances to end it had they just been able to hold on to at least 3 EASY would - be interceptions. In addition, Sutton didn't dial up any pressure and actually dropped Houston back in pass coverage on that last drive. There's a reason why other teams shut him down and KC cant. :shake:

[Eleazar]

Shut up shut up shut up. #1 problem with this site is nobody can post something positive without this shit popping up from the naysayers. Shut up.

Shut.

Up.

This

[FD]

Here is the full list:



1. Marcus Peters, CB, Kansas City Chiefs

Heading into the draft, I wrote: "On tape alone, he has an argument as the top cornerback in the class." Peters looks like it so far. He has an interception in each of his first two games, including a pick-six against Peyton Manning in Week 2. So far, so good.


2. Marcus Mariota, QB, Tennessee Titans

The Week 2 loss in Cleveland was a step down from his Week 1 explosion against Tampa Bay, but Mariota has a 6-to-zero TD-INT ratio,and has already dispelled any notion the Titans are starting him only because they need to justify the high pick. He belongs.


3. Mitch Morse, C, Kansas City Chiefs

I knew the Chiefs were interested in Morse going into the draft, but I can tell you they had him rated a lot higher than I did. This is a case of them seeing a perfect fit, and Morse has looked the part of a veteran through two games.



4. Jameis Winston, QB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Sure, he gets a little bump on positional value, but after a really bad start, Winston has been pretty good in six of eight NFL quarters so far. His play on Sunday in the Superdome was really impressive. He'll have his ups and downs, especially as the Bucs get their offensive line worked out, but the talent is there, and more consistent results will follow.


5. Henry Anderson, DE, Indianapolis Colts

I'll be the first to say I underrated Anderson if he keeps this up. Upside was a big part of the question -- he's already 24 -- but he doesn't need to improve at all to be one of the top rookies at this rate. He'll have the splash plays but should be steady (particularly against the run) in the meantime.


6. Kwon Alexander, MLB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

No, he's not Lavonte David, but Alexander fits the profile in some ways as the athletic linebacker who plays lighter than most but makes up for it with instincts and the ability to find the ball. Good start for the fourth-rounder.


7. Ronald Darby, CB, Buffalo Bills

The talent far surpasses the draft slot, and Darby could prove to be a steal if he takes care of business off the field. An immediate starter, Darby is clearly a player coach Rex Ryan believes can be a stud. He's being challenged early.


8. Vic Beasley Jr., DE, Atlanta Falcons

In the final Big Board before the draft, I wrote: "If you just set him loose as a pass-rusher, I think the production will be there." So far, so good. Beasley needs to be graded on more than splash plays, but he's going to bring a ton of pressure if you don't get the ball out early.


9. Leonard Williams, DE, New York Jets

Williams is still more of a run defender than he is a consistent force against the pass. But it's a credit to the guy who was No. 1 on my board that the Jets are playing without Sheldon Richardson and still look capable of dominating up front. He was a steal at No. 6 overall.


10. Danny Shelton, DT, Cleveland Browns

Shelton had a great camp and has started strong. You just don't see rookies who can consistently hold their own against double-teams, but Shelton is playing like the Browns could have hoped so far.

The next 10

11. Hau'oli Kikaha, DE/OLB, New Orleans Saints

Yep, Todd liked him better than I did, and while Kikaha is benefiting from a need to plug him in right away, he's holding his own.

12. Amari Cooper, WR, Oakland Raiders

I know the production is there -- 12 catches through two games, including a big game against Baltimore in Week 2 -- but he needs to limit the drops. As I suspected, he's going to be really dangerous after the catch, and the Raiders are going to simply swing the ball over to him when corners are playing off and giving him space.

13. Ali Marpet, OG, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The Bucs are relying on him early, and Marpet is holding his own. Amazing he was blocking at the Division III level at this time a year ago.

14. Stephone Anthony, ILB, New Orleans Saints

Another player who was drafted under the assumption he could step in right away, Anthony has hits and misses but is off to a good start.

15. Matt Jones, RB, Washington Redskins

He gets bonus points for not only having a huge game on Sunday, but for doing so against a great Rams front. Star potential is obvious.

16. Tyler Lockett, WR/KR/PR, Seattle Seahawks

If you included the preseason, Lockett is probably at or near No. 1. He's one of the steals of the draft, and I expect the Seahawks to make him a bigger focus in the passing game. Get him the ball, and big plays will follow.

17. Brandon Scherff, OG, Washington Redskins

He had some great moments on Sunday against the Rams and is likely to stay at guard, which is what we suspected when he was taken at No. 5 overall. The Washington offensive line is making strides.

18. David Andrews, C, New England Patriots

Undrafted out of Georgia, Andrews looks like a great find for the Patriots so far, already holding down the starting spot.

19. Ameer Abdullah, RB/KR, Detroit Lions

He just needs the touches. Abdullah is capable of big plays if he finds a little space, and Detroit has already seen some of the explosiveness.

20. Jeremiah Poutasi, OT, Tennessee Titans

Two weeks, one good performance and one not-so-good performance. Poutasi could be a steal as a third-rounder.

[keg in kc]

Shut up shut up shut up. #1 problem with this site is nobody can post something positive without this shit popping up from the naysayers. Shut up.




Shut.


Up.#1 problem with this site is the kind of people who joined in the last five or six years

[Dave Lane]

You #1 in our true fan poll.

[xztop123]

Peters looks extremely fast on the field. Surprisingly so.

[milkman]

You want to keep Manning from beating you with a late game winning drive?

Pressure.

Bob Sutton sent one blitz on that last drive, and Manning threw the worst lame duck pass of the night.

Bob Sutton dropped Houston into coverage on almost every play in that last drive.

You give Manning time in the pocket, even this old ass, noodle arm version Manning, he's going to rape you.

[Brock]

They were getting heat on manning all night. There really was no excuse for leaving the back half of the defense exposed like that late in the game nor for putting that kid in a position where he was going to look incompetent. If he can't do the job, fucking help him.

[TEX]

#1 problem with this site is the kind of people who joined in the last five or six years

:clap: REP! Exactly the case. Many of the good members left as a result of the influx of morons.

[CoMoChief]

It was still criminally fucking stupid to pass on Tyler Lockett in the 2nd rd.

Morse could have been had in the 3rd rd. Even though the pick may indeed work out, which I guess in the end is all that matters, but Lockett is going to be a good player and is a true slot WR unlike wasting time w/ DAT, and his ceiling is much higher than Albert Wilson's.

1. CB Marcus Peters
2. WR Tyler Lockett
3. C Mitch Morse
3. WR Chris Conley
4. OT TJ Clemmings
5. OL La'El Collins

BOOM!!! Chiefs win the draft by leaps and bounds. Kiss Eric Fisher's fuckin' ass goodbye!

Seriously though how kickass would that draft be?

[Saccopoo]

It was still criminally ****ing stupid to pass on Tyler Lockett in the 2nd rd.

Morse could have been had in the 3rd rd. Even though the pick may indeed work out, which I guess in the end is all that matters, but Lockett is going to be a good player and is a true slot WR unlike wasting time w/ DAT, and his ceiling is much higher than Albert Wilson's.

1. CB Marcus Peters
2. WR Tyler Lockett
3. C Mitch Morse
3. WR Chris Conley
4. OT TJ Clemmings
5. OL La'El Collins

BOOM!!! Chiefs win the draft by leaps and bounds. Kiss Eric Fisher's ****in' ass goodbye!

Seriously though how kickass would that draft be?

Sucks.

[suzzer99]

You want to keep Manning from beating you with a late game winning drive?

Pressure.

Bob Sutton sent one blitz on that last drive, and Manning threw the worst lame duck pass of the night.

Bob Sutton dropped Houston into coverage on almost every play in that last drive.

You give Manning time in the pocket, even this old ass, noodle arm version Manning, he's going to rape you.

He was getting most throws off in 1.5 seconds or less. Pressure might have helped but we have to be able to cover receivers for that long.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It was still criminally ****ing stupid to pass on Tyler Lockett in the 2nd rd.

Morse could have been had in the 3rd rd. Even though the pick may indeed work out, which I guess in the end is all that matters, but Lockett is going to be a good player and is a true slot WR unlike wasting time w/ DAT, and his ceiling is much higher than Albert Wilson's.

1. CB Marcus Peters
2. WR Tyler Lockett
3. C Mitch Morse
3. WR Chris Conley
4. OT TJ Clemmings
5. OL La'El Collins

BOOM!!! Chiefs win the draft by leaps and bounds. Kiss Eric Fisher's ****in' ass goodbye!

Seriously though how kickass would that draft be?Why do people say stupid **** like this?

[New World Order]

Wait I read on CP that Dorsey isn't a fantastic talent evaluator bc he screwed up the #1 overall pick in the worst draft class ever


Took him 3 drafts to get our first round pick right, but at least he did it.

[Brock]

Why do people say stupid **** like this?

Other teams tend to notice a guy like that I think.

Should have traded up to get lockett though.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Other teams tend to notice a guy like that I think.

Should have traded up to get lockett though.Yeah, he'd be a great one to have.

[Urc Burry]

Denver and Seattle both loved Morse. He wasn't lasting til round 3. I would of loved Lockett, but Dorsey made the right call on hoping he'd slide just a bit further. We got our center for the next 10 years (hopefully)

[aturnis]

#1 problem with this site is the kind of people who joined in the last five or six years
True.

[the Talking Can]

Morse is playing like a first round pick, so hard to complain


Aside from Fisher, Dorsey is proving to be one of the best eye's for talent...from udfa to fa to mid rounds......Morse replaced a $9 mill player and we haven't missed him for a sec imo

[BossChief]

It's too bad OTWP left. I'd like to hear his thoughts on Morse because a big reason he took a lot of heat in his final days was because he threw such a big fit about letting Hudson walk in FA.

Morse is a better player.