Should teams sit starters after being eliminated from playoff contention

[Buehler445]

It came up in BossChiefs next 4 games thread. If we end up 2-6, we should run Murray out there. LeBetard brought up the point that Detroits dudes are going to go through the impact and injuries for nothing at 0-4 (he was pointing out that the NFL fucked up the call).

But that got me to thinking why don't teams that are done treat it like preseason. If I were Detroit I would sit Johnson and Stafford. If you have a guy you want to get some experience like Murray, run him out there. Or trade bait, like Davis maybe. But it might give a guy a shot to earn a spot. Or get tape out there for another team.

Interesting concept. Won't happen, but what do you guys think?

[The Franchise]

Because if you're a coach on the hot seat.....it will get you shit canned in a hurry.

That and I'm sure the starters won't like it because they have bonuses tied to snaps played as well as stats.

[Bowser]

I'm no opposed to it. If a team is sitting at 4-8, why wouldn't that team do it? See what is in store for your future, then plan your draft accordingly. Owners might not like it so much, considering all the millions of dollars of their money sitting on the bench...

[KCUnited]

Job security, fans, ticket sales...

[Bowser]

Because if you're a coach on the hot seat.....it will get you shit canned in a hurry.

That and I'm sure the starters won't like it because they have bonuses tied to snaps played as well as stats.

This as well

[The Franchise]

Job security, fans, ticket sales...

Forgot about ticket sales.

Think of how empty the stadiums would be if a majority of the starters aren't playing. People aren't going to show up to watch the Aaron Murrays on a team get some meaningful snaps.

[Reerun_KC]

I don't think Reids pride would allow that to happen... Also you have a franchise that has proven over and over that its love of .500 to sub .500 records are most important goal each year. If we hit 2-6/3-5 the quest will be on for 7-9 and the fan base will have hope going into next year because of the so called strong finish. That equals season ticket sales and BBQ parking lot for 2016...

[Buehler445]

Because if you're a coach on the hot seat.....it will get you shit canned in a hurry.

That and I'm sure the starters won't like it because they have bonuses tied to snaps played as well as stats.

If I were a coach I'd swing for the fences. The margin is so thin that of you can have a guy like Charles fresher next year because he took half the snaps he might be able to make a run. Or find a guy that shines when the lights Omar's on.

I would do it voluntarily. It would help player relations with the vets by recognizing the I'll on their bodies. It would also help lower tier guys fighting for a spot. If a guy wants his incentives let him play.

So the question is if you are 0-4 you're faced with likely going 4-12 with playing everybody or 2-14 sitting dudes. What's the probability increase with losing 2 more games? What about 2-6 at the halfway point? Maybe you can get to 6-10 or 8-8 vs 4-10. Obviously ownership would have to be on board but I'd try it.

[The Franchise]

If I were a coach I'd swing for the fences. The margin is so thin that of you can have a guy like Charles fresher next year because he took half the snaps he might be able to make a run. Or find a guy that shines when the lights Omar's on.

I would do it voluntarily. It would help player relations with the vets by recognizing the I'll on their bodies. It would also help lower tier guys fighting for a spot. If a guy wants his incentives let him play.

So the question is if you are 0-4 you're faced with likely going 4-12 with playing everybody or 2-14 sitting dudes. What's the probability increase with losing 2 more games? What about 2-6 at the halfway point? Maybe you can get to 6-10 or 8-8 vs 4-10. Obviously ownership would have to be on board but I'd try it.

But still....you're talking about sitting grown men who live and die by the stats they accumulate over the course of their career.

[Buehler445]

I don't think Reids pride would allow that to happen... Also you have a franchise that has proven over and over that its love of .500 to sub .500 records are most important goal each year. If we hit 2-6/3-5 the quest will be on for 7-9 and the fan base will have hope going into next year because of the so called strong finish. That equals season ticket sales and BBQ parking lot for 2016...

I'm talking in general. KC isn't doing it ever. Because lord knows that fighting for an edge doesn't happen in KC.

[wazu]

I would do this, but not exactly like preseason. Starters would still play but with a steady rotation. More rest, more development. QB would be case by case. In Alex's case he would go right to the bench.

[BWillie]

Forgot about ticket sales.

Think of how empty the stadiums would be if a majority of the starters aren't playing. People aren't going to show up to watch the Aaron Murrays on a team get some meaningful snaps.

Sure they would. Losing team fanbases would LOVE to watch back up QBs get their shot. Hope.

[Buehler445]

But still....you're talking about sitting grown men who live and die by the stats they accumulate over the course of their career.

I agree. It'd be a tough sell but if I am a guy like Jamaal Charles I'd do it. I know I'm not getting cut, and if I can extend my career it might lead to another contract. That's huge. Plus the pain. Dude takes a lot of hits. Same with lineman. Maybe we don't have anybody on the roster that's guranteed but if Roaf were on this roster I would want him to sit. Fuck taking all those hits. Save them for when it matters.

[wazu]

Sure they would. Losing team fanbases would LOVE to watch back up QBs get their shot. Hope.

I would go to games in December to see Aaron Murray play.

[The Franchise]

Sure they would. Losing team fanbases would LOVE to watch back up QBs get their shot. Hope.

I would go to games in December to see Aaron Murray play.

You're judging other team's fanbases off of posters here on CP.

[Valiant]

You're judging other team's fanbases off of posters here on CP.

I am judging teams with other bad to average qbs. Their fanbases would relish a change.

and if these starters at other positions needs snaps for their stats and bonuses they should of thought of that before sucking.

sadly injuries are generally the only way some players get a shot at excelling. Well or a high salary cut.

If we are out of it at the midway mark i would hope to see a qb change and more rotation of linebackers and the line. Find out who needs to be kept and sent on their way.

[KCUnited]

But still....you're talking about sitting grown men who live and die by the stats they accumulate over the course of their career.

Yep, you'd be affecting All Pros, Pro Bowls, and potentially hall of fame careers. Free agents want to go somewhere they'll play.

[mr. tegu]

I agree. It'd be a tough sell but if I am a guy like Jamaal Charles I'd do it. I know I'm not getting cut, and if I can extend my career it might lead to another contract. That's huge. Plus the pain. Dude takes a lot of hits. Same with lineman. Maybe we don't have anybody on the roster that's guranteed but if Roaf were on this roster I would want him to sit. Fuck taking all those hits. Save them for when it matters.

The problem is that it may not ever matter. So three seasons down the line you have players who have only played a half season three years in a row. They would never go for that and no player would ever want to come here.

[Chiefnj2]

You mean to tell me I'm going to have to drop Jason Avant from my fantasy team to pick some late season waiver wire player?

[Mr. Laz]

Reid isn't doing that unless Hunt makes him and the Hunt family doesn't get that involved in the daily operations.

[Buehler445]

Yep, you'd be affecting All Pros, Pro Bowls, and potentially hall of fame careers. Free agents want to go somewhere they'll play.

Yeah. It will affect all that stuff except the free agents. They follow the money. Or else every FA would go to NE and play for free.

[Buehler445]

Reid isn't doing that unless Hunt makes him and the Hunt family doesn't get that involved in the daily operations.

Yeah. I know.

I'm talking in general. KC isn't doing it ever. Because lord knows that fighting for an edge doesn't happen in KC.

[Brock]

Sure! Just give back half the price of the tickets of those games where you don't get to see jamaal charles and justin houston.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah. I know.
I think a team should do it strategically.

Theoretically for the Chiefs:

West should get more carries
Nelson should get time as nickleback instead of Fleming
Conley should start every game
Ramik Wilson should start at MLB
Dee Ford should split time with Hali
If the Chiefs plan on keeping Fisher ... then he should be move back to left tackle and be left there forever. If they don't think he can play LT tackle then they should discuss a contract 'change' now before the season is over so they know what they will have to do.


Chiefs can do these things without throwing up a white flag

[FlaChief58]

I get your argument, but there are a ton of reasons why it's not done. (at least not publicly) The main reason however is $$$$. It would not only hurt that team, but the NFL in general. If everyone knew that say 10 teams are going to shut it down after week 8, the fan backlash would be more than the league could take. Attendance, ratings, merch sales and interest in the sport would plummit. There's just too much revenue they would stand to lose.

[BossChief]

The only time I'd do it is in certain circumstances.

Let's say we start the year 1-7.

At that point we know Alex Smith is done. Chase Daniel is in the last year of his contract and turns 29 tomorrow...I'm not really interested in keeping him long term and doing so wouldn't be much different than this teams history at the position.

For once, let our own kid go out there and lead us to victory or loss. FOR ONCE LET THE KID PLAY.

That leaves us with Murray who was pretty exciting in PS and has been in the system over a year. He is also super cheap through 2017. Even if they only view him as a backup for the future, that experience would be valuable and give the coaches stuff to work on in the offseason.

[The Franchise]

You're talking about 2 different scenarios here.

1. Starting a young QB because your season is loss.
2. Sitting all of your talented players so they don't get hurt.

Fans would be behind #1 but would throw a fit if #2 happened.

[BossChief]

You're talking about 2 different scenarios here.

1. Starting a young QB because your season is loss.
2. Sitting all of your talented players so they don't get hurt.

Fans would be behind #1 but would throw a fit if #2 happened.

Exactly.

I was trying to differentiate what I was talking about in the other thread and what is going on in here.

I mean, what if Murray can be a similar player to Nick Foles at this level....they were very comparable college players.

For once, I'd like for them to find out.

[Hammock Parties]

The only time I'd do it is in certain circumstances.

Let's say we start the year 1-7.

At that point we know Alex Smith is done.

We aren't starting 1-7.

We'll be within a game or two of .500 the whole year.

The only way Alex does not start every game is injury...which...is possible. :evil:

[Buehler445]

You're talking about 2 different scenarios here.

1. Starting a young QB because your season is loss.
2. Sitting all of your talented players so they don't get hurt.

Fans would be behind #1 but would throw a fit if #2 happened.

Probably so. But there is also evaluating dudes.

I wouldn't pull everybody if I were throwing out a new qb though. At least not on offense.

[Nickel D]

This is how the quote potential unquote scandal at DraftKings got started.

[Red Dawg]

The NFL would blow a gasket if teams did this so early because they suck. Stadiums would empty and teams would get fined because really what your doing is trying to get a better draft pick.

I personally I hope they lose out forcing us to take a QB maybe in the draft or making Alex take a pay cut so they can get rid of him as well. Of course none of this will happen.

[The Franchise]

Probably so. But there is also evaluating dudes.

I wouldn't pull everybody if I were throwing out a new qb though. At least not on offense.

If we go into the bye week with 2 wins (Houston and Chicago), then I would do the following.

1. Start Aaron Murray at QB.
2. Nelson starts at NB.
3. Poe moves to DE and Howard starts at NT. I would also sign Howard to a new deal.
4. Wilson starts opposite DJ at ILB for the rest of the season.
5. Fisher starts at LT. Stephenson is inconsistent as fuck and not deserving of a 2nd contract. Allen can start at RT until he gets hurt again.

[BossChief]

If we go into the bye week with 2 wins (Houston and Chicago), then I would do the following.

1. Start Aaron Murray at QB.
2. Nelson starts at NB.
3. Poe moves to DE and Howard starts at NT. I would also sign Howard to a new deal.
4. Wilson starts opposite DJ at ILB for the rest of the season.
5. Fisher starts at LT. Stephenson is inconsistent as **** and not deserving of a 2nd contract. Allen can start at RT until he gets hurt again.

This.

Every word.

Throwing Murray out there against Denver could be tough, though.

[The Franchise]

This.

Every word.

Throwing Murray out there against Denver could be tough, though.

Kid has to learn sometime.

[jspchief]

I think a team should do it strategically.

Theoretically for the Chiefs:

West should get more carries
Nelson should get time as nickleback instead of Fleming
Conley should start every game
Ramik Wilson should start at MLB
Dee Ford should split time with Hali
If the Chiefs plan on keeping Fisher ... then he should be move back to left tackle and be left there forever. If they don't think he can play LT tackle then they should discuss a contract 'change' now before the season is over so they know what they will have to do.


Chiefs can do these things without throwing up a white flag
Yep. It looks like KC might be doing a bit of this already. West certainly see more touches and Conley may have played more snaps last week.

All the moves you listed are perfectly reasonable and become more so if the season continues in its current direction.

[Rausch]

If we go into the bye week with 2 wins (Houston and Chicago), then I would do the following.

1. Start Aaron Murray at QB.
2. Nelson starts at NB.
3. Poe moves to DE and Howard starts at NT. I would also sign Howard to a new deal.
4. Wilson starts opposite DJ at ILB for the rest of the season.

Sounds good to me.

5. Fisher starts at LT. Stephenson is inconsistent as **** and not deserving of a 2nd contract. Allen can start at RT until he gets hurt again.

Heeeeeeeell no...

[BossChief]

Fisher
Grubbs
Morse
Fulton
Allen

I'd be just fine with that.

[Buehler445]

If we go into the bye week with 2 wins (Houston and Chicago), then I would do the following.

1. Start Aaron Murray at QB.
2. Nelson starts at NB.
3. Poe moves to DE and Howard starts at NT. I would also sign Howard to a new deal.
4. Wilson starts opposite DJ at ILB for the rest of the season.
5. Fisher starts at LT. Stephenson is inconsistent as fuck and not deserving of a 2nd contract. Allen can start at RT until he gets hurt again.

I'd be getting Davis and west carries also.

If they're going to start Murray I believe they should put out the best OL. Whatever that ends up being. I find a way to IR Poe. Let that guy heal.

[Easy 6]

No way, these guys are paid a kings ransom to play a game that, the good ones atleast, would play for free.

Nope, make them all go entertain the fans for the hard earned money they spend on a bunch of losers.

[jspchief]

Even if Smith gets benched, Murray isn't going to get the start. Daniel(s) will start and Smith will come back in if Daniel(s) gets injured.

And Daniel(s) will spark the team because hes notAlex, and the team will have some success because teams don't have enough film on Daniel(s) yet.

Then the front office will sign Daniel(s) to a $50m contract because he rallied the team to a 9 win season. Meanwhile Bray and Murray will retire and go work on Croyle's cripple ranch. The Chiefs will draft a mildly intriguing QB in the rnd 3-6 range, to play out his nfl career behind Daniel(s) and Tannehill.

[Mr. Laz]

Fisher
Grubbs
Morse
Fulton
Allen

I'd be just fine with that.

I still don't trust Allen.


Hasn't proven he can start anywhere, let alone RT

[Mr. Laz]

Kid has to learn sometime.

Yea, if you want him to get shell-shocked have have to regain confidence during his rookie season.

That asshat Dorsey needs to stop fucking up the Oline so we can develop a young QB. Although i'm still not sure the Reid isn't part of the problem.

[Marcellus]

Participation ribbons for everyone.

[eDave]

If teams started doing this, shit would hit the fan and the practice will be shut down post haste.

No tickie sales.

[Rain Man]

This makes me realize how growth has negatively impacted the game.

Imagine that it's 1925 or 1935 or 1945. Would this question come up? Not at all. You needed ticket sales back then. You needed people to watch the game, and they wouldn't come back a second time if all the starters were benched to "build for the future". Plus, the players themselves would have demanded that the best players play. In other words, the game was being played for the benefit of the players and the fans.

Fast forward to today. Why is this sort of thing being considered? In whose best interest is it to see a less competitive game than would otherwise be possible? I guess you could say that it's in the team owner's best interest. It's unclear if it's in the fans' best interest - some wouldn't mind seeing young talent, but I suspect that most would like to have a good experience if they go to the game. And perhaps that's the problem - there's no cost to most fans to see a game. You turn on the TV or you don't. So the value of any individual game is quite low to the typical fan, and they're less invested in wanting to see an exciting product.

And players? Who knows? Some just want a paycheck, and I can't blame them. The money is so big that elite athletes are kind of forced into the sport. They can't make a Jay Berwanger decision and say that they're really rather do something else for a living.

So now we have some players who don't want to play and some fans who don't want to watch the best players play. Why? It's because the business has taken over the sport. Each game has a hugely inflated value to players whether they play or not, and each game has little value to fans.