Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense.

[oaklandhater]

http://www.kctv5.com/story/30240072/chiefs-starting-to-face-questions-about-older-players

Chiefs starting to face questions about older players

Posted: Oct 12, 2015 8:31 AM PDT
Updated: Oct 12, 2015 10:47 AM PDT
Posted by Chris Oberholtz, Multimedia ProducerCONNECT

Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -
Andy Reid and John Fox have been around the NFL long enough to see hundreds of players come and go, some of them only after age has rendered their once-potent ability ineffective.

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Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense.

The Chiefs are actually among the youngest teams in the NFL, the product of several seasons spent picking early in the draft.

But they also have a pair of starting linebackers in Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali that are among the oldest in the NFL, raising the question: Has the game started to catch up to two of the best to ever wear a Chiefs uniform?

"I don't see that decline from our older players right now. I don't think that's the issue," Reid said. "I think they're playing hard and doing the things they've done before."

Reid also acknowledged that the tape — and numbers — rarely lie.

In the case of Hali, the formerly feared pass rusher has just six tackles and one sack through four games. That puts Hali on pace for the fewest stops of his 10-year career, and the fewest sacks since he had three in 2008, his third season in the league.

More importantly, the fact that the four-time Pro Bowl selection has been less effective has had a spillover effect on the rest of the defense.

Teams are more easily able to double-team Justin Houston on the other side, or help with nose tackle Dontari Poe. And if a quarterback has more time to throw, it puts additional strain on the defensive backfield.

The result is the league's 29th-ranked defense, allowing nearly 400 yards per game, and one that is tied with this week's opponent, the Chicago Bears, for most points allowed.

"We've got a good group," Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "You have to be very careful not to let your emotion, the highs of winning and the lows of losing, affect you."

Yet emotion is exactly what often forces coaches to leave unproductive players on the field too long. They remember what a player has done in the past rather than take stock of what he is capable of doing in the present, their image of him clouded by sentimentality and time.

Hali, who has not been available to reporters this week, has certainly made it difficult to view him as anything other than a star. He has 80 1/2 sacks in his career, trailing only Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith for most in franchise history. He had 14 1/2 during the 2010 season, which still stands as the fifth-best mark in the Chiefs record book.

He also has proven invaluable in tutoring Houston, now one of the NFL's top pass rushers, and Dee Ford, a first-round pick who is being groomed as Hali's successor.

"One of the foundations of being successful is the loyalty you have to people," said Fox, who is in his first season leading the Bears but got plenty of questions about whether Peyton Manning was washed up during his time coaching the Denver Broncos.

"It can be a tough call," Fox said. "I've had some very tough ones along the way. We're a performance-based business and as a coach or general manager or decision-maker, those are tough calls — how they fit in your system, how capable and reliable they are through time."

Hali, who took a significant pay cut to stay in Kansas City this season, has clearly been reliable. He has rarely been hurt, often playing through the pain of nicks and bruises.

Perhaps all of those are finally catching up to him.

"You know, a lot of them have accomplished a lot for you, so it makes it difficult," Fox said of the challenges that coaches face when it comes to aging players. "It's a tough thing to do."

Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[wazu]

Chiefs offense scores 10 points. Fans blame defense for loss.

[oaklandhater]

Chiefs offense scores 10 points. Fans blame defense for loss.

Some lady called in to the Radio and pretty much sounded like the leave britney alone guy was pretty much saying next year will be better because we will have a high enough draft pick to get a real LT in there.

[Discuss Thrower]

Chiefs offense scores 10 points. Fans blame defense for loss.

Defense contributes six points to final score of a game decided by one point.

Fans blame everything but the offense.

[oaklandhater]

Defense contributes six points to final score of a game decided by one point.

Fans blame everything but the offense.

Where is tigeruppercut with is typical defense wins championships Soapbox

[Baby Lee]

Chiefs offense scores 10 points. Fans blame defense for loss.

Chiefs defense is 29th in the league and has given up two leads in final minute out of 5 games, fans think a QB will fix everything.

[BossChief]

Chiefs offense scores 10 points. Fans blame defense for loss.

And the defense scored 7

[oaklandhater]

Chiefs defense is 29th in the league and has given up two leads in final minute out of 5 games, fans think a QB will fix everything.

I think most of us know the defense sucks but with out a QB what's the point of fixing it.

[Baby Lee]

I think most of us know the defense sucks but with out a QB what's the point of fixing it.

Well then just fold up the franchise.

[Hammock Parties]

Hali was done last year.

Ford was drafted to replace him but he's playing 15 snaps a game and is invisible.

Anyone got the PFF pressure numbers for Ford?

[Hammock Parties]

Chiefs defense is 29th in the league and has given up two leads in final minute out of 5 games, fans think a QB will fix everything.

It's already been explained to you that this team would be 3-2 with average QB play.

[Baby Lee]

It's already been explained to you that this team would be 3-2 with average QB play.

You don't 'explain' a hypothetical. You pose one.

[oaklandhater]

Hali was done last year.

Ford was drafted to replace him but he's playing 15 snaps a game and is invisible.

Anyone got the PFF pressure numbers for Ford?

https://i.gyazo.com/84d47cf426cda7ed59035d2b970dbae6.png

[Dayze]

I got blasted last year for saying Hali was on his way to being toast.

I can't believe how much of a turd Ford is. WTF is his deal.

[oaklandhater]

Well then just fold up the franchise.

I think most of us are pretty much folding up our hope for this franchise until we draft a QB

[notorious]

The title.......

[oaklandhater]

I got blasted last year for saying Hali was on his way to being toast.

I can't believe how much of a turd Ford is. WTF is his deal.

-1.1 Waste of a draft pick

[Baby Lee]

I think most of us are pretty much folding up our hope for this franchise until we draft a QB

Then what? Hope he plays well for a shitty franchise?

Say we get the next Peyton Manning, perhaps greatest QB possible. Now we have a team for him to be Peyton Manning, the Schottenheimer years. Which in case you forgot was nearly a decade of utter playoff failure.

[The Franchise]

Ford needs way more snaps. I know he sucks....but get him the hell out there so everyone can see it with a larger sample size.

[notorious]

Ford needs way more snaps. I know he sucks....but get him the hell out there so everyone can see it with a larger sample size.

It's not like he could do much worse than what's out there.

[Strongside]

Title of this thread makes no sense.

[Reerun_KC]

This is going to implode so nicely.

[Baby Lee]

Title of this thread makes no sense.

I think it's supposed to read 'AGE is not the problem'

[oaklandhater]

Title of this thread makes no sense.

Take it up with Reid I'm just quoting the man

[Reerun_KC]

How about Reid insist his play calling and game management is killing this team... More than Smith and the defense combined.

[oaklandhater]

Then what? Hope he plays well for a shitty franchise?

Say we get the next Peyton Manning, perhaps greatest QB possible. Now we have a team for him to be Peyton Manning, the Schottenheimer years. Which in case you forgot was nearly a decade of utter playoff failure.

I would settle for being the Colts with Luck right now I can not and will not be content with this offense anymore chiefs fans deserve a vertical offense.


opposing team's defense have been stacking the box since Green retired.

[Baby Lee]

I would settle for being the Colts with Luck right now I can not and will not be content with this offense anymore chiefs fans deserve a vertical offense.


opposing team's defense have been stacking the box since Green retired.

So, that whole thing about playoff success was just a talking point.

You don't better, you just want different.

Great, then I'll settle for being the Chiefs with Marty. Good news is, Marty is actually available unlike Luck.

[New World Order]

I got blasted last year for saying Hali was on his way to being toast.

I can't believe how much of a turd Ford is. WTF is his deal.


I hear Ford has an amazing first step.

[oaklandhater]

one good thing about our defense is that Berry had an amazing Rating form PFF

+5.1 overall

[Dayze]

I hear Ford has an amazing first step.

he does.
though it's the subsequent steps where he runs directly into the waiting arms of a LT/RT, or somehow otherwise takes himself out of a play completely, that he needs to work on.

[scho63]

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

[oaklandhater]

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

one is on its way to being historically bad the other just suck's with a historically bad QB.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/bb/showthread.php?t=295100

[Dayze]

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

LMAO

would you rather get punched in the nose or kicked in the nuts?


that's always been the one I've used.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

[Baby Lee]

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

Retarded. The Ravens' defense was better in 98 and 99 when they were 4-12 and had ABSOLUTELY no offense, than they were even when they carried their team to the SB.

[Rain Man]

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.


I dunno. I would think that the best players want to be on the field.

Maybe I'm abnormal, and admittedly my playing days stopped at ... umm ... pickup games in high school. But if the offense turned the ball over, I'd be all wagging my tail like a labrador saying, "I get to go on the field again!"

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Retarded. The Ravens' defense was better in 98 and 99 when they were 4-12 and had ABSOLUTELY no offense, than they were even when they carried their team to the SB.

I dunno. I would think that the best players want to be on the field.

Maybe I'm abnormal, and admittedly my playing days stopped at ... umm ... pickup games in high school. But if the offense turned the ball over, I'd be all wagging my tail like a labrador saying, "I get to go on the field again!"

The Chiefs deplete all things good and competitive over time. This is a proven fact.

[Reerun_KC]

Reids gonna spin this as the defense is the problem to 'protect him and smith...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Reids gonna spin this as the defense is the problem to 'protect him and smith...


I will shove a cold slab up his ass, and pull it out his throat.

[saphojunkie]

Chiefs defense is 29th in the league and has given up two leads in final minute out of 5 games, fans think a QB will fix everything.

Your leg is bleeding out.

The house is on fire.

Baby Lee is standing there, defiantly. "Your leg is bleeding profusely, but you think getting out of this house solves everything!"

No.

But if you don't get the fuck out of the house, it doesn't matter what other problems you solve.

[saphojunkie]

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

Said as much monday morning to a friend. Next around the corner is the defense completely giving up and this team going 3-13.

[Hammock Parties]

Next around the corner is the defense completely giving up and this team going 3-13.

RED TEAM GOIN' DOWN! DOWN DOWN DOWN!

http://i.imgur.com/zG6SZzh.gif

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

That's not an argument . Dog shit is horrible . Horse shit smells good.

[rtmike]

he does.
though it's the subsequent steps where he runs directly into the waiting arms of a LT/RT, or somehow otherwise takes himself out of a play completely, that he needs to work on.

He's damn good at pacing and running parallel with the opposing team's QB.

Next up, Hali's gonna teach Ford how to position himself so all the TV cameras show how the other team is holding. :hmmm:

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

nlm

[Red Beans]

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

Well, we all know dog shit is worse, so let's not even go there.

[ILChief]

Start Dee Ford

[Psyko Tek]

How about Reid insist his play calling and game management is killing this team... More than Smith and the defense combined.

THIS

as long as andy is being andy we are fucked

[007]

Some lady called in to the Radio and pretty much sounded like the leave britney alone guy was pretty much saying next year will be better because we will have a high enough draft pick to get a real LT in there.

This is one of several reasons why I don't listen to sports talk anymore. They only let morons on now.

[Dave Lane]

I dunno. I would think that the best players want to be on the field.

Maybe I'm abnormal, and admittedly my playing days stopped at ... umm ... pickup games in high school. But if the offense turned the ball over, I'd be all wagging my tail like a labrador saying, "I get to go on the field again!"

Thats not how it works in reality. You go JFC this game is toast.

[New World Order]

Someone should call in to 810 and talk about how we should bring Matt Cassel back.

Unsurprisingly, they might agree.

[Baby Lee]

Your leg is bleeding out.

The house is on fire.

Baby Lee is standing there, defiantly. "Your leg is bleeding profusely, but you think getting out of this house solves everything!"

No.

But if you don't get the fuck out of the house, it doesn't matter what other problems you solve.

sapho sits around bitching about his leg until his house burns down around him. Turns to his smoldering family and says 'see, I told you my leg was hurt!!'

[rabblerouser]

It's already been explained to you that this team would be 3-2 with average QB play.

This team would be 3-2 with better play calling and game management.

[Simply Red]

I have no idea who we even play this weekend. LOL

[Baby Lee]

I have no idea why we even play this weekend. LOL

Me either.

[Three7s]

I have no idea who we even play this weekend. LOL
Vikings.

[rabblerouser]

I have no idea who we even play this weekend. LOL

It actually doesn't matter.

[Grim]

How about Reid insist his play calling and game management is killing this team... More than Smith and the defense combined.

this.

[bevischief]

That's not BBQ they are cooking

[Discuss Thrower]

Someone should call in to 810 and talk about how we should bring Matt Cassel back.

Unsurprisingly, they might agree.

Cassel would be at worst 2-3 if he had the type of players that Smith has assuming they play the same schedule. The wild card is whether or not he didn't go fetal against the Denver game and was able to convert at least one third down.

[Saccopoo]

Cassel would be at worst 2-3 if he had the type of players that Smith has assuming they play the same schedule. The wild card is whether or not he didn't go fetal against the Denver game and was able to convert at least one third down.

http://thisevilempire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fonzie3.gif

[Easy 6]

I don't often agree with Discuss, to put it lightly... but I'm not so sure he's wrong.

For all of his many faults, Cassel did make some plays here and there when trying to push the ball downfield... hell, he was a steely eyed gunslinger compared to Smiff.

[Saccopoo]

I don't often agree with Discuss, to put it lightly... but I'm not so sure he's wrong.

For all of his many faults, Cassel did make some plays here and there when trying to push the ball downfield... hell, he was a steely eyed gunslinger compared to Smiff.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-MZ753_fonz1_DV_20110312103327.jpg

[FloridaMan88]

Alex Smith's play has sunk to new depths... he now has people clamoring for Matt Casshole.

[Hammock Parties]

Good god.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRM99jtUYAQnYhs.png

[Saccopoo]

Good god.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRM99jtUYAQnYhs.png

http://www.kcchiefs.com/assets/images/imported/KC/photos/091415-BobSutton-ia.jpg

[Easy 6]

No one is "clamoring" for Cassel, but he wasn't nearly as scared to take a chance once in a while... that's for damn sure.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Good god.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRM99jtUYAQnYhs.png

Not making excuses for this at all, it's clearly an issue, but we have gone against some pretty damn good WR's in 5 weeks.

[bevischief]

Give the whole team Viagra. Can't hurt at this point...

[scho63]

Alex Smith's play has sunk to new depths... he now has people clamoring for Matt Casshole.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/59/591188f48b5555f2568fdcb8f04f09d73632e7f180f6fd5f8fdf558c306f66c1.jpg

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/5286656+_945ce6fc8e1e3493d6b9a358a32162b8.jpg

[saphojunkie]

No one is "clamoring" for Cassel, but he wasn't nearly as scared to take a chance once in a while... that's for damn sure.

Matt Cassel was the worst quarterback I have ever seen and I would sign Alex Smith to a 60 year contract before allowing Cassel to take one more snap.

[Baby Lee]

Matt Cassel was the worst quarterback I have ever seen and I would sign Alex Smith to a 60 year contract before allowing Cassel to take one more snap.

I'm not averse to parting ways with Alex, but not if it was for the return of ANYONE we've had since 2005.

[mcaj22]

Not making excuses for this at all, it's clearly an issue, but we have gone against some pretty damn good WR's in 5 weeks.

Marquess Wilson and Cameron Meredith are NOT good WRS. And when they beat your secondary, your defensive scheme sucks.

[bishop_74]

You guys are like the Whole Food Anti Vax moms. Too far removed from the pain that was Cassell. You have lost your mind if you think he is better than Smith. Smith is bad... Cassell was a vaginal wart.

[ThaVirus]

Cassel is AIDS, Smith is Hep C.

Still gonna kill you slowly.

[HemiEd]

I am starting to think Andy Reid has dementia.

[Discuss Thrower]

Marquess Wilson and Cameron Meredith are NOT good WRS. And when they beat your secondary, your defensive scheme sucks.

Also Josh Bellamy. You know. The former chief.

[Jimmya]

Fire Sutton!