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View Full Version : Chiefs Can Reid go down as just a good coach that never won it all?


bricks
01-18-2016, 08:40 AM
I just can't see how he can win it all? I think his flaws will prevent him from doing so. Mind you, it's okay to have flaws. No coach is perfect and they all have flaws but lack of game clock management skills is a MAJOR flaw imo.

A flaw that costs your team games. And as we see in the playoffs, having that skill is a great quality to have as a coach. It could make the difference between winning and losing. Or, at least giving your team a chance to tie the game and go for the win in overtime.

I think having this flaw in the regular season isn't so bad but in the playoffs it's exponentially worse. In the playoffs, the games are tighter/closer, the margin for error is a lot smaller and the great teams demand you to be efficient and on point every time. That's impossible to accomplish when you as a head coach don't have game clock management skills down.

I also don't like that the Chiefs don't use their timeouts wisely. It seems to me that there are quite a handful of games where they have to burn timeouts early because they either didn't get the right play in, set up properly, or just need time to think things over so that they get the right play and personnel in. I don't know what to think of that? Is that a lack of preparation? Possibly. I don't know but it's frustrating as hell. That sure doesn't help if the games are close and we need that timeout later in the game to savour the clock so our team is in a better position to get those game tying or game winning points.

See Reid isn't only poor at managing the game clock but sets himself up to be at a disadvantage to manage the clock later in games by burning timeouts early and often. I feel that were not only struck by the sword but this may be a double edged sword here that we're dealing with.

Mile High Mania
01-18-2016, 08:42 AM
There's a laundry list of them... right now, he's right up there with Marty - hoping to reach the Reeves/Levy level.

Chiefnj2
01-18-2016, 08:58 AM
An underdog, inexperienced team needs to play a flawless game against a team like NE who was rested, had two weeks to prepare and has a first ballot HOF QB and HC.

They weren't flawless. The D dropped INTs, couldn't push the pocket, let the Pats convert 3rd and long. Smith was jittery and throwing high, Davis fumbled and Andy Reid, well, was Andy Reid. You have come away with points when you start on your oppositions 36. And his entire game plan at the end of the game was either incompetent or just plain dumb.

The better team won.

Sandy Vagina
01-18-2016, 09:05 AM
Can Reid go down as just a good coach that never won it all?


The Chiefs will have 2 or 3 more years to find out. I expect them to be even better in each of these years.. and that being in the playoffs will be routine for a while.

Clean up the playcalling.. upgrade at RT as the rest continue to improve. Keep together as many key players as possible. Add another skilled WR, so that they don't have to rely on Wilson or Conley as instant starters due to injuries.

Last, but certainly not least.. stay healthy, FFS!!!! ( as if that's an easy option ) .. Seems too many critical players are missing in action when they are needed most. Call it bad luck.. call it "because Chiefs".. whatever.

TEX
01-18-2016, 09:08 AM
The Chiefs will have 2 or 3 more years to find out. I expect them to be even better in each of these years.. and that being in the playoffs will be routine for a while.

Clean up the playcalling.. upgrade at RT as the rest continue to improve. Keep together as many key players as possible. Add another skilled WR, so that they don't have to rely on Wilson or Conley as instant starters due to injuries.

Last, but certainly not least.. stay healthy, FFS!!!! ( as if that's an easy option ) .. Seems too many critical players are missing in action when they are needed most. Call it bad luck.. call it "because Chiefs".. whatever.

You're spot on here with all of it.

Sandy Vagina
01-18-2016, 09:15 AM
You're spot on here with all of it.

can't be true! I'm an asshole 49ers' bandwagonner... therefore, am brainless.. and my words must be dismissed or interpreted as trash!

Now do this shit right! :p

TEX
01-18-2016, 09:20 AM
can't be true! I'm an asshole 49ers' bandwagonner... therefore, am brainless.. and my words must be dismissed or interpreted as trash!

Now do this shit right! :p

LOL! Naw, not this time. ;)

MahiMike
01-18-2016, 09:51 AM
Yeah what an idiot. He shoulda drafted Brady. Dummy.

BigRedChief
01-18-2016, 09:57 AM
An underdog, inexperienced team needs to play a flawless game against a team like NE who was rested, had two weeks to prepare and has a first ballot HOF QB and HC.

They weren't flawless. The D dropped INTs, couldn't push the pocket, let the Pats convert 3rd and long. Smith was jittery and throwing high, Davis fumbled and Andy Reid, well, was Andy Reid. You have come away with points when you start on your oppositions 36. And his entire game plan at the end of the game was either incompetent or just plain dumb.

The better team won.+ Hali, Houston and Maclin were useless due to injuries and we lost Charles our best player, for the whole year.

That was just too much to overcome to have a realistically chance to beat HOF'rs with two weeks to prepare. I think we over performed.

Eleazar
01-18-2016, 10:10 AM
He's decent, but overrated.

rico
01-18-2016, 10:19 AM
He will be known as a HC who won a lot of games, but always tripped over his dick when it counted due to being inept at clock management.

chiefzilla1501
01-18-2016, 10:24 AM
What's interesting about Reid is, he's not Marty like. He does get his team prepared and while his gameplanning isn't perfect, it's usually decent. You just have to hope either the team is good enough to overcome his several mistakes or hope for a perfect run of mistakeless game management from him to win a Super Bowl. Unlike Marty, Reid has won a lot of playoff games.

gold_and_red
01-18-2016, 11:34 AM
Reid is a good coach, but with a non-elite QB he needs to have a top seed in the playoffs to maximize chances of getting over the hump. With next years schedule and this years experience Reid must focus on HFA.
If Kubiak can knock on a SB doorstep Reid can do better.

listopencil
01-18-2016, 01:51 PM
I saw an article on Deadspin about Reid just a bit ago:

<header><svg class="svg-icon svg-chevron chevron--bottom"></svg> (http://deadspin.com/tag/andy-reid)Andy Reid Is Still Andy Reid (http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/l9lg5fsmhqdit25bvrdl.jpg<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>
</header>


When Andy Reid was fired by the Philadelphia Eagles in 2012, our own Tom Scocca called him a “powerful but slow football thinker,” (http://deadspin.com/5972253/andy-reid-good-enough-to-make-you-hate-him-for-how-bad-he-was) and described what it was like to watch Reid’s offense slowly, painfully deny itself a shot at a Super Bowl victory:The Eagles needed two scores, and they got one of them—on that still-baffling three-minute-45-second slow march down the field, their relentless downfield progress matched by the even-more-relentless draining of the clock. It was the Andy Reid-iest sequence of Andy Reid’s career; I watched it with a friend who hates the Eagles, and he abandoned his rooting interest and started yelling at the TV set in sheer objective disbelief and frustration. How could any team be so stupid with so much on the line?
Reid’s Kansas City Chiefs found themselves in almost the exact same situation against the New England Patriots on Saturday. Down 27-13, the Chiefs got the ball on their own 22 with just over six minutes remaining. Reid still had all of his timeouts. The box score will tell you that the Chiefs ran a no-huddle offense throughout the drive, but their march down the field was about as slow and deliberate as a hurry-up attack can get. Eventually, 19-yard pass to Albert Wilson put the Chiefs on the one-yard line with just under three minutes to play. Alex Smith hurried his team up to the line as the clock ran. The next snap came with 2:33 left to play, and running back Charcandrick West was stoned at the line. The clock kept running.

After the two-minute warning and a false start, Smith completed a short pass to Jason Avant to get them back to the three-yard line. The clock was ticking, and Smith made some frustrated motions at the sideline:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/g9n9pkbev8t0imsiib76.gif<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>


Smith was eventually forced to huddle up his offense. Yes, a team down by 14 points with less than two minutes to play actually huddled up to call a play while the game clock continued to run. If there is one surreal image to define Andy Reid’s contribution to the game, it’s this one:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/objwol5j9d2aw9nryj7i.png<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>


From there, the game ended as it was always going to, with the Chiefs getting the touchdown and the Patriots kneeling out the game after a failed onside kick. There was Andy Reid, in his natural state, one score short and with a pocket full of useless timeouts. Worse still, he claimed after the game that everything had gone according to plan: (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14589790/andy-reid-says-kansas-city-chiefs-were-intentionally-deliberate-comeback-attempt)“We potentially would have had three timeouts and an opportunity to drive the field, which I thought was huge,” Reid said. “It would have put us in a perfect situation to do that. We work on that every week. So I thought that part was handled right."

“When it was all said and done, we had plenty of clock to take care of business.”
This is what’s so frustrating about Andy Reid. His inability to effectively manage late-game situations doesn’t seem to be the result of anxiety or flare-ups of boneheadedness, but of a hardwired deficiency. It sucks, because he’s spent a career proving that he’s one of the best coaching minds in the game—he turned a 2-14 Chiefs team into a playoff contender and made Alex Smith a useful quarterback—but this is just who Andy Reid is, and it’s who he’ll always be.
Photo via Getty (http://gettyimages.com)

rabblerouser
01-18-2016, 02:12 PM
I saw an article on Deadspin about Reid just a bit ago:

<header><svg class="svg-icon svg-chevron chevron--bottom"></svg> (http://deadspin.com/tag/andy-reid)Andy Reid Is Still Andy Reid (http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/l9lg5fsmhqdit25bvrdl.jpg<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>
</header>


When Andy Reid was fired by the Philadelphia Eagles in 2012, our own Tom Scocca called him a “powerful but slow football thinker,” (http://deadspin.com/5972253/andy-reid-good-enough-to-make-you-hate-him-for-how-bad-he-was) and described what it was like to watch Reid’s offense slowly, painfully deny itself a shot at a Super Bowl victory:The Eagles needed two scores, and they got one of them—on that still-baffling three-minute-45-second slow march down the field, their relentless downfield progress matched by the even-more-relentless draining of the clock. It was the Andy Reid-iest sequence of Andy Reid’s career; I watched it with a friend who hates the Eagles, and he abandoned his rooting interest and started yelling at the TV set in sheer objective disbelief and frustration. How could any team be so stupid with so much on the line?
Reid’s Kansas City Chiefs found themselves in almost the exact same situation against the New England Patriots on Saturday. Down 27-13, the Chiefs got the ball on their own 22 with just over six minutes remaining. Reid still had all of his timeouts. The box score will tell you that the Chiefs ran a no-huddle offense throughout the drive, but their march down the field was about as slow and deliberate as a hurry-up attack can get. Eventually, 19-yard pass to Albert Wilson put the Chiefs on the one-yard line with just under three minutes to play. Alex Smith hurried his team up to the line as the clock ran. The next snap came with 2:33 left to play, and running back Charcandrick West was stoned at the line. The clock kept running.

After the two-minute warning and a false start, Smith completed a short pass to Jason Avant to get them back to the three-yard line. The clock was ticking, and Smith made some frustrated motions at the sideline:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/g9n9pkbev8t0imsiib76.gif<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>


Smith was eventually forced to huddle up his offense. Yes, a team down by 14 points with less than two minutes to play actually huddled up to call a play while the game clock continued to run. If there is one surreal image to define Andy Reid’s contribution to the game, it’s this one:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/objwol5j9d2aw9nryj7i.png<svg class="svg-icon svg-zoom-in"><use xlink:href="http://deadspin.com/andy-reid-is-still-andy-reid-1753600911#iconset-zoom-in"></use></svg>


From there, the game ended as it was always going to, with the Chiefs getting the touchdown and the Patriots kneeling out the game after a failed onside kick. There was Andy Reid, in his natural state, one score short and with a pocket full of useless timeouts. Worse still, he claimed after the game that everything had gone according to plan: (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14589790/andy-reid-says-kansas-city-chiefs-were-intentionally-deliberate-comeback-attempt)“We potentially would have had three timeouts and an opportunity to drive the field, which I thought was huge,” Reid said. “It would have put us in a perfect situation to do that. We work on that every week. So I thought that part was handled right."

“When it was all said and done, we had plenty of clock to take care of business.”
This is what’s so frustrating about Andy Reid. His inability to effectively manage late-game situations doesn’t seem to be the result of anxiety or flare-ups of boneheadedness, but of a hardwired deficiency. It sucks, because he’s spent a career proving that he’s one of the best coaching minds in the game—he turned a 2-14 Chiefs team into a playoff contender and made Alex Smith a useful quarterback—but this is just who Andy Reid is, and it’s who he’ll always be.
Photo via Getty (http://gettyimages.com)


It's who he's always been...and it's who he'll always be.

Mr. Laz
01-18-2016, 02:12 PM
Reid = Marty

just a different style


good coaches and great people, but flaws too serious to let them every be really great


The only way guys like Shottenheimer and Reid ever win a super bowl is if everything just falls lucky during the playoffs for them.

rabblerouser
01-18-2016, 02:53 PM
Reid = Marty

just a different style


good coaches and great people, but flaws too serious to let them every be really great


The only way guys like Shottenheimer and Reid ever win a super bowl is if everything just falls lucky during the playoffs for them.
Has anyone considered the fact that, not only were we outcoached, but the team with the future HOF QB simply outplayed us, too??

Total team failure.

listopencil
01-18-2016, 03:25 PM
Reid = Marty

just a different style


good coaches and great people, but flaws too serious to let them every be really great


The only way guys like Shottenheimer and Reid ever win a super bowl is if everything just falls lucky during the playoffs for them.

Meh. Swap Alex and Brady, KC wins the Super Bowl.

rabblerouser
01-18-2016, 03:32 PM
Meh. Swap Belichick and Reid, KC wins the Super Bowl.

Fyp

chiefzilla1501
01-18-2016, 03:54 PM
Reid = Marty

just a different style


good coaches and great people, but flaws too serious to let them every be really great


The only way guys like Shottenheimer and Reid ever win a super bowl is if everything just falls lucky during the playoffs for them.

I don't like the Marty comparison. Marty's team looked almost afraid to win big games in the playoffs. It was unexplainable. Andy Reid has been a very successful playoff coach. He just can't win the big one. I see him more as a Dungy or a Cowher. Not ideal, but those guys did eventually win a Super Bowl after frustrating losses every year.

milkman
01-18-2016, 06:11 PM
Just a couple of notes, and I have no link for this, but I heard that during that crucial 4th qtr, the Chiefs used an average of 23 seconds between plays, while the Patriots used and average of 17 seconds.

During the Chiefs 16 play drive to score that TD at the end of the game, the Chiefs ran 25 seconds or more off the clock after 8 plays.

At the end of the day, clock management was one of the reasons I wasn't on board with hiring Reid to begin, but for me, the thing that was far more hair pulling was the total craptastic play calling on so many possessions.

keg in kc
01-18-2016, 06:59 PM
He's a better, pass-happy version of Marty. Always has been. Why I was so opposed to the hire three years ago. Along with the knowledge that he'd bring Alex Smith with him.

We keep doing the same thing with coaches and quarterbacks both, with the notable exception of Haley. Retreads. Guys who've already proven they can't get it done, but they'll be better here, promise!

Personally, I'd rather crash and burn with a hundred Haleys than go through another Marty/Vermeil/Herm/Romeo. Ditto for the quarterbacks. Draft and develop someone. Anyone. Please.

Ming the Merciless
01-18-2016, 07:08 PM
Has anyone considered the fact that, not only were we outcoached, but the team with the future HOF QB simply outplayed us, too??


No

we never even thought of Tom Brady

is he good?

Baby Lee
01-18-2016, 07:08 PM
Just a couple of notes, and I have no link for this, but I heard that during that crucial 4th qtr, the Chiefs used an average of 23 seconds between plays, while the Patriots used and average of 17 seconds.

During the Chiefs 16 play drive to score that TD at the end of the game, the Chiefs ran 25 seconds or more off the clock after 8 plays.

At the end of the day, clock management was one of the reasons I wasn't on board with hiring Reid to begin, but for me, the thing that was far more hair pulling was the total craptastic play calling on so many possessions.

It's being dissected in depth already

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=297709

Mr. Laz
01-18-2016, 07:13 PM
Has anyone considered the fact that, not only were we outcoached, but the team with the future HOF QB simply outplayed us, too??

Total team failure.

Andy Reid and his shitbag offense isn't developing a HOF QB anytime that i can see.


If Reid drafts Tom Brady, nobody would be consider him to be one of the best ever.

JoeyChuckles
01-18-2016, 07:17 PM
Personally, I'd rather crash and burn with a hundred Haleys than go through another Marty/Vermeil/Herm/Romeo. .

You and me bot........ wait, no. You and nobody ever.

I don't understand how anyone would prefer that to what we have now. Currently I have hope that the Chiefs could make a Super Bowl run next year, something I've never had since Vermeil left. It most likely won't happen, but at least they've instilled that hope.

Mr. Laz
01-18-2016, 07:23 PM
Just a couple of notes, and I have no link for this, but I heard that during that crucial 4th qtr, the Chiefs used an average of 23 seconds between plays, while the Patriots used and average of 17 seconds.

During the Chiefs 16 play drive to score that TD at the end of the game, the Chiefs ran 25 seconds or more off the clock after 8 plays.

At the end of the day, clock management was one of the reasons I wasn't on board with hiring Reid to begin, but for me, the thing that was far more hair pulling was the total craptastic play calling on so many possessions.

More on Reid, we don't practice a hurry-up offense so when it comes to the game we can't do it.

I willing to bet the same goes for deeper passing routes too. If we would practice them more Smith and the WRs would be better at it.

milkman
01-18-2016, 07:23 PM
You and me bot........ wait, no. You and nobody ever.

I don't understand how anyone would prefer that to what we have now. Currently I have hope that the Chiefs could make a Super Bowl run next year, something I've never had since Vermeil left. It most likely won't happen, but at least they've instilled that hope.

Wait......

What?

You had hope that the Chiefs could win a SB with Vermeil?

Can I have some of whatever you were smoking?

mdchiefsfan
01-19-2016, 04:28 AM
Why have such a "cerebral QB," and what is the point of continuity, if you can't trust him to engineer a two minute drive on his own? If Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were in that situation, you would've seen a middle finger given to the sideline while they marched their team down the field.

I also agree that the whole choice to go for the onside kick is a sham. If someone truly planned to go for such a low percentage opportunity, then that person needs his bell rung.

keg in kc
01-19-2016, 11:36 AM
You and me bot........ wait, no. You and nobody ever.

I don't understand how anyone would prefer that to what we have now. Currently I have hope that the Chiefs could make a Super Bowl run next year, something I've never had since Vermeil left. It most likely won't happen, but at least they've instilled that hope.You're welcome to your optimism. I just don't happen to share it. I don't think Andy Reid is a championship calibre coach and I believe that the only way the Chiefs go to the Superbowl with Alex Smith is with a top-5 defense, a top-5 running game, a season without significant injuries and a postseason where every single bounce in every single game goes their way. Basically the kind of situation where any quarterback could win, be it Mark Rypien or Trent Dilfer or Alex Smith. In other words, it absolutely can happen, it's just not what I consider the best or easiest possible route for a franchise.

Basically I want a team that's capable of being there every year, rather than a team that might make it on a fluke. And I just don't believe we have either the coach or the signal caller for sustained postseason success.

Time will tell. Hopefully my read on Reid is wrong.

Mr. Laz
01-19-2016, 01:31 PM
Andy Reid's biggest flaw isn't even clock management.

His lack of efficiency and lack of attention to detail makes for a sloppy team

His offensive scheme is severely flawed for the current NFL.

rabblerouser
01-19-2016, 03:34 PM
Andy Reid's biggest flaw isn't even clock management.

His lack of efficiency and lack of attention to detail makes for a sloppy team

His offensive scheme is severely flawed for the current NFL.
This.

This team is too talented to lose in the fashion that they constantly find themselves.

Terrible coaching.

InChiefsHeaven
01-19-2016, 05:25 PM
This.

This team is too talented to lose in the fashion that they constantly find themselves.

Terrible coaching.

11 straight wins and a playoff victory among them does not equal "terrible coaching".

I'm not making excuses for Reid's tendencies. I just wouldn't call him a terrible coach. He's shown himself to be a damn good coach...but we needed him to be great Saturday...and well...

Spott
01-19-2016, 05:27 PM
He's basically Marty with out the crazy amount of bad luck in the playoffs. No one will ever have the amount of bad luck that Marty had.

OctoberFart
01-19-2016, 05:33 PM
He's basically Marty with out the crazy amount of bad luck in the playoffs. No one will ever have the amount of bad luck that Marty had.

Marty is a better coach than Reid. He did have some crazy bad luck. I'm absolutely shocked he was never a GM. People can hate Marty's coaching, but his talent evaluation is top notch.