Chiefs, Pitt and NE loving some Braxton Miller

[Red Dawg]

Can't say we couldn't use him.


http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/1/28/10859940/the-nfl-draft-rumors-have-begun-chiefs-like-braxton-miller

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Doubt he'd make it to our 2nd pick though..

[loochy]

:hmmm:

[The Franchise]

Going to have to trade up in the 2nd to get him. Unless they trade out of the 1st and take him at the top of round 2.

[O.city]

Yes please

[The Franchise]

28 is a decent spot for a team in the high 2nd round to trade up and try and get that 5th year option on a player.

[O.city]

28 is a decent spot for a team in the high 2nd round to trade up and try and get that 5th year option on a player.

I'd hate to hive that up

[Quesadilla Joe]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Braxton Miller came up limping. They&#39;re looking at his right leg. Day 3 of Senior Bowl practice.</p>&mdash; Andrew Siciliano (@AndrewSiciliano) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewSiciliano/status/692749369729089536">January 28, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[RunKC]

Would love, but I wouldn't be surprised when folks here bitch that he's not doing anything year 1

[Mr. Laz]

Maybe they are finally going to get serious about receivers for this team.

Hopefully they add some corners too.

Passing league and we've been skimping on WRs for years.

WRs and CBs are a must in this league.

[ModSocks]

Doubt he'd make it to our 2nd pick though..

28 is a decent spot for a team in the high 2nd round to trade up and try and get that 5th year option on a player.

We're a long ways away from the draft. I wouldn't worry about needing to trade down, instead just watch to see which players shoot UP from their early projections.

Braxton Miller may be viewed as a 1st rnd pick when it's all said and done.

[The Franchise]

We're a long ways away from the draft. I wouldn't worry about needing to trade down, instead just watch to see which players shoot UP from their early projections.

Braxton Miller may be viewed as a 1st rnd pick when it's all said and done.

I'm just saying it as a general statement. That 28-31 (since New England lost their 1st) picks are going to be where teams at the top of the 2nd are trying to trade back into the 1st to get that 5th year option. I wouldn't put it past Dorsey to trade out of the 1st and get an extra pick.

[RunKC]

Why would we move out of the first round? I'd rather just draft the best player. That 5th year option is valuable

[mcaj22]

if he has good combine numbers, which by all accounts he should because hes suppose to be a freak athlete, he will eventually climb into the late first round anyway so just grab him if hes there.

[Urc Burry]

I would prefer not to touch him in the first with his injury history

[O.city]

He's basically what Percy Harvin was, without the baggage

[MahiMike]

Was excited until I remembered he's no longer a QB.

[DJ's left nut]

28 is a decent spot for a team in the high 2nd round to trade up and try and get that 5th year option on a player.

And that's why I won't trade out of the 1st for less than two 2nds.

If I give up 1 year of control on a player that's about 75% likely to hit (by losing the 5th year option) for 4 years of control on a player that's about 60% likely to hit, I'm going to usually be better for it.

And ultimately I just don't know how eager I'd be either way. Miller's going to rocket up draft boards and there's simply no way he'd be a year 1 contributor. He's not just new to this system, he's new to the position altogether. This team can win a championship in 2016 and I don't think Miller will do much to help in that regard.

With the first rounder we'd have to give up to get him, I want someone that will contribute to next season's run at the division, conference and SB.

[The Franchise]

And that's why I won't trade out of the 1st for less than two 2nds.

If I give up 1 year of control on a player that's about 75% likely to hit (by losing the 5th year option) for 4 years of control on a player that's about 60% likely to hit, I'm going to usually be better for it.

And ultimately I just don't know how eager I'd be either way. Miller's going to rocket up draft boards and there's simply no way he'd be a year 1 contributor. He's not just new to this system, he's new to the position altogether. This team can win a championship in 2016 and I don't think Miller will do much to help in that regard.

With the first rounder we'd have to give up to get him, I want someone that will contribute to next season's run at the division, conference and SB.

A 2nd this year and a 2nd next year?

[DJ's left nut]

A 2nd this year and a 2nd next year?

Nope, unless I was confident it was a shit team (i.e. the Browns).

For most teams I'd want a 2nd this year and next year's 1st.

[The Franchise]

Nope, unless I was confident it was a shit team (i.e. the Browns).

For most teams I'd want a 2nd this year and next year's 1st.

Yeah....I don't see that happening. Going back to 2014.....the Seahawks traded from 32 to 40 (the Bridgewater deal) for a 4th round pick.

[nbarone007]

Did anyone else like this guy at QB? I personally loved him at QB and went far enough to have him as my #1 pre-season QB and Heisman favorite prior to the season he got hurt...

If we draft a WR type of player though, i'd prefer to get Will Fuller. Seems like the perfect complement to Maclin.

[loochy]

Did anyone else like this guy at QB? I personally loved him at QB and went far enough to have him as my #1 pre-season QB and Heisman favorite prior to the season he got hurt...

If we draft a WR type of player though, i'd prefer to get Will Fuller. Seems like the perfect complement to Maclin.

boom! jet sweep pass!

[wazu]

Do you guys think he will ever be as good as Tyler Lockett?

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah....I don't see that happening. Going back to 2014.....the Seahawks traded from 32 to 40 (the Bridgewater deal) for a 4th round pick.

Oh I didn't say it was terribly likely.

That's why I probably wouldn't do it.

Giving up a 5th year of control on a 1st round pick for a 4th rounder is a poor use of resources, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

After a bit of rooting around, it looks like the Seahawks made several moves with what they got and it yielded them

Paul Richardson
Cassius Marsh
Kevin Norwood
Garrett Scott
Kiero Small

They turned a 1st round pick into 5 JAGs, 3 of whom weren't even on the team by 2015. Every bit of value they got was from Paul Richardson and if they really think that was a successful pick, they should've just taken him in the 1st and gotten the 5th year option on him. The additional 'equity' they picked up through the trades netted them 4 players, 3 of whom are gone (2 are out of the league) and the fourth simply isn't any good.

EDIT: Additionally - the Seahawks used up $2.15 million in cap and 4 roster spots for those 5 guys (small didn't even make the team out of camp). Bridgewater was 1 spot and $1.245 million in cap. So apart from moving down in the draft, losing a year of team control, burning 3 extra roster spots and nearly an extra million in cap space, I'd say that trade worked out great for them....

And look at the Patriots history of trying to do the same thing - they almost invariably get a bunch of chaff for their efforts.

If you can't get premier value for a trade down - don't trade out of the first.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm a fan.

[ChiefsCountry]

Patriots and Steelers have a history of turning QBs into WRs so I could see a nice fit for Miller there.

[BigMeatballDave]

Was excited until I remembered he's no longer a QB.

You don't want him as QB anyway.

[O.city]

And that's why I won't trade out of the 1st for less than two 2nds.

If I give up 1 year of control on a player that's about 75% likely to hit (by losing the 5th year option) for 4 years of control on a player that's about 60% likely to hit, I'm going to usually be better for it.

And ultimately I just don't know how eager I'd be either way. Miller's going to rocket up draft boards and there's simply no way he'd be a year 1 contributor. He's not just new to this system, he's new to the position altogether. This team can win a championship in 2016 and I don't think Miller will do much to help in that regard.

With the first rounder we'd have to give up to get him, I want someone that will contribute to next season's run at the division, conference and SB.

You don't like Miller?

[DJ's left nut]

You don't like Miller?

I like Miller...I think.

I'd need to see him more for sure.

But the championship window in the AFC will never be more open than it is right now. People keep saying we missed a golden opportunity this year as though next year is going to see a re-birth in the AFC.

I don't see it - this conference is open for the next few years. Even if Luck comes back healthy, the team around him is in shambles. The Steelers will likely get their defense fixed up a bit and come back as dangerous as ever, but it's not as though the Chiefs were ever their full unit either.

This team can win and win now. If you're asking me if I want Miller - who's not going to be a meaningful contributor in this system in 2016 - or someone that can help us win a game or two or get another round in the playoffs next season, gimme the guy that helps us win now.

It's not always my approach. Hell it's rarely my approach. But the present is the most undervalued asset in sports, IMO. When you're looking at a possible championship window, you have to strike while it's there.

There are going to be some DEs that can help us a lot there. There will be OLs that will help and possibly even some ILBs and CBs. If Fuller's there he'll be a WR that could help us immediately. And if you take a guy that can help immediately, it will also keep you from having to use cap space to fill holes and so you can make a more aggressive push for someone like Travis Benjamin in FA.

I don't have anything against Miller and in a lot of years I'd be okay taking a chance on that kind of player (though if I think he's worth a mid-2nd, I'd just take him in the first to get the extra year on a player that raw). I just don't think he's the right fit right now.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Patriots and Steelers have a history of turning QBs into WRs so I could see a nice fit for Miller there.

If I were Miller Pitt is the place to be. Even though I like him for kc for his sake I hope he ends up in Pitt.

[DJ's left nut]

If I were Miller Pitt is the place to be. Even though I like him for kc for his sake I hope he ends up in Pitt.

They'd be a nice spot for him, but can a team that already has 3 dynamite WRs and is also in a position to win a championship really be using a 1st round pick on a #4 WR when they have as many holes in their defense as they do?

Really, the Patriots should go after him. The Pats have holes as well, but they will live or die with Brady. If Brady's still Brady next year, they'll be over to patch over the holes and contend. If he's not, no pick they make in the 1st will make a difference.

Meanwhile Miller could be a very dangerous weapon for a very long time for Brady's successor.

[RunKC]

Sterling Shepard>Braxton Miller

[DJ's left nut]

Sterling Shepard>Braxton Miller

Lower ceiling, higher floor.

Likely to come 2 rounds later in the draft and may well be a better fit in this offense.

A far more sensible pick, IMO.

Braxton Miller is the kind of shiny object pick that led Mike Martz's rams into ruin. Sometimes you can't just chase the sexiest option on the table. A level head and an eye on the entire roster is going to win you a lot more in the long run.

[philfree]

They'd be a nice spot for him, but can a team that already has 3 dynamite WRs and is also in a position to win a championship really be using a 1st round pick on a #4 WR when they have as many holes in their defense as they do?

Really, the Patriots should go after him. The Pats have holes as well, but they will live or die with Brady. If Brady's still Brady next year, they'll be over to patch over the holes and contend. If he's not, no pick they make in the 1st will make a difference.

Meanwhile Miller could be a very dangerous weapon for a very long time for Brady's successor.

Do the Pats have a pick in the 1st round?

[royr17]

Do the Pats have a pick in the 1st round?

No pick in 1st round due to deflategate

[DJ's left nut]

And for the record, the WR I'd target out of Ohio state would probably be Jalin Marshall. Like Miller, I'd want to see more of him, but I liked what I saw from him in limited exposure this year.

He played that goofy hybrid position that Meyer likes as a Soph as well as returned kicks. He's shown great ability in space and some nice vertical speed. If we're looking for a guy exclusively as a slot player (and it appears that's likely the case), Marshall would be an ideal fit.

I have no idea where he's likely to get drafted, though.

[DJ's left nut]

Do the Pats have a pick in the 1st round?

Good point.

[philfree]

No pick in 1st round due to deflategate

That's what I thought.

[RippedmyFlesh]

They'd be a nice spot for him, but can a team that already has 3 dynamite WRs and is also in a position to win a championship really be using a 1st round pick on a #4 WR when they have as many holes in their defense as they do?

Really, the Patriots should go after him. The Pats have holes as well, but they will live or die with Brady. If Brady's still Brady next year, they'll be over to patch over the holes and contend. If he's not, no pick they make in the 1st will make a difference.

Meanwhile Miller could be a very dangerous weapon for a very long time for Brady's successor.

To me it's kind of like the giants drafting pass rushers. I don't know contract status of pitt wr but as good as they are they will have to get paid.
Seems like they let wr's walk.

[Stryker]

My favorite part of the article:


Matt Miller ✔ @nfldraftscout
.@BraxtonMiller5 is putting on a free clinic in Mobile. Embarrassing DBs
10:29 AM - 28 Jan 2016

[DaneMcCloud]

This team can win and win now. If you're asking me if I want Miller - who's not going to be a meaningful contributor in this system in 2016 - or someone that can help us win a game or two or get another round in the playoffs next season, gimme the guy that helps us win now.

Miller's a former QB so he's fairly smart. which may lend to learning the system much more quickly than a non-QB. He's a dynamic playmaker with great size. It's a long season and while he may not contribute much more than Chris Conley did during the season, his dynamic playmaking could absolutely be the difference come the playoffs.

I'd have rather seen a WR corp of Miller, Conley, Wilson and Avant against the Patriots than Conley, Wilson, Avant and Frankie Hammond, jr.

That said, I think his selection may hinge on Jaye Howard: If he's re-signed, the Chiefs have more options. If he's not, it'll be hard for them to pass on a DT/DE after losing Howard along with Poe's impending free agency.

[DJ's left nut]

Miller's a former QB so he's fairly smart. which may lend to learning the system much more quickly than a non-QB. He's a dynamic playmaker with great size. It's a long season and while he may not contribute much more than Chris Conley did during the season, his dynamic playmaking could absolutely be the difference come the playoffs.

I'd have rather seen a WR corp of Miller, Conley, Wilson and Avant against the Patriots than Conley, Wilson, Avant and Frankie Hammond, jr.

That said, I think his selection may hinge on Jaye Howard: If he's re-signed, the Chiefs have more options. If he's not, it'll be hard for them to pass on a DT/DE after losing Howard along with Poe's impending free agency.

But there are some very high quality DEs available in this draft, many of whom would be immediate contributors.

Is Miller and Howard better than Benjamin and Rookie DE? Because the money saved on Howard can go to a lot of different places. I don't think that's a better team in the near term and I think the added financial flexibility in the long term makes that a preferable approach.

I guess if you're Laz and you think that Howard's among the premier interior lineman in all of football, then you keep Howard. I just don't think Howard's that guy.

[The Franchise]

Dorsey has shown an affinity for drafting players that don't have a large year 1 impact.

[DaneMcCloud]

But there are some very high quality DEs available in this draft, many of whom would be immediate contributors.

Is Miller and Howard better than Benjamin and Rookie DE? Because the money saved on Howard can go to a lot of different places. I don't think that's a better team in the near term and I think the added financial flexibility in the long term makes that a preferable approach.

I guess if you're Laz and you think that Howard's among the premier interior lineman in all of football, then you keep Howard. I just don't think Howard's that guy.

It's also possible that even if they keep Howard at a reasonable number (and to me, that doesn't exceed $7 million per), they go DT/DE because teams can never have enough defensive lineman.

Although IMO, it's too early to make any guesses or assumptions. The first week of free agency should provide more insight.

[O.city]

But there are some very high quality DEs available in this draft, many of whom would be immediate contributors.

Is Miller and Howard better than Benjamin and Rookie DE? Because the money saved on Howard can go to a lot of different places. I don't think that's a better team in the near term and I think the added financial flexibility in the long term makes that a preferable approach.

I guess if you're Laz and you think that Howard's among the premier interior lineman in all of football, then you keep Howard. I just don't think Howard's that guy.

I'm in the minority but why can't Miller produce right away? He doesn't have to be the technical guy, that's maclin. He can play the slot and alot outside. I know he's not polished, but I dunno that a wr drafted will be.

And I don't know about a de being an immediate contributor. As a chief fan, I know better.

I don't think I'd take miller in round one soli mole because of limited action at wr and I like fuller better, but I think Miller 3nds up being Sammy Watkins lite.

[staylor26]

Dorsey has shown an affinity for drafting players that don't have a large year 1 impact.

But he drafted two guys that did last year, when he obviously felt the team was ready to start drafting for an immediate impact.

[O.city]

I'd probably go with Shepard later as he seems like an ideal x accross from maclin and I could have a rt, de etc of choice plus sheppard

[RunKC]

No WR is going to make a big impact year 1. Chris Conley was being raved for his intelligence and he didn't do much.

It's becoming more and more clear that Jaye Howard wants big money and I think that he was successful in part bc of Poe.

I think the best option (as of now) is to find Sean Smith's replacement as well as an OT or WR in free agency and then fill the rest in the draft.

It is looking like DL and CB is a huge strength in this draft

[staylor26]

No WR is going to make a big impact year 1. Chris Conley was being raved for his intelligence and he didn't do much.

It's becoming more and more clear that Jaye Howard wants big money and I think that he was successful in part bc of Poe.

I think the best option (as of now) is to find Sean Smith's replacement as well as an OT or WR in free agency and then fill the rest in the draft.

It is looking like DL and CB is a huge strength in this draft

You're right about DL and CB being the strengths of this draft. That's great timing for us.

I took a look at the CB's in this draft and there are a shit ton of 6'0"+ guys. No doubt we will be taking one and letting Smith walk.

[O.city]

Again, minority here, but conley was behind the 8 ball to begin with. He's never going to be a precise route runner and his strengths are going to take time. It doesn't matter how smart he is, his body just won't let him do some of those things

[DaneMcCloud]

No WR is going to make a big impact year 1. Chris Conley was being raved for his intelligence and he didn't do much.


Conley was injured throughout training camp and wasn't completely healthy until the end of September.

Even with that, he put up nearly identical numbers to Nelson Agholor, a first rounder that went to Philly.

Conley has all the tools and smarts to have a 600+ yard season next year.

[staylor26]

Again, minority here, but conley was behind the 8 ball to begin with. He's never going to be a precise route runner and his strengths are going to take time. It doesn't matter how smart he is, his body just won't let him do some of those things

Dude. Dorsey hasn't traded up for anybody but Conley since he's been here. He has a place in this offense and is a fit.

[O.city]

If Alex smith continues to press the issue, yeah, he can fit here.

Nothing against conley, I've just never been a big fan of the pick

[staylor26]

If Alex smith continues to press the issue, yeah, he can fit here.

Nothing against conley, I've just never been a big fan of the pick

And it's just as irrational as your "cut Allen" bs before the season. I agree with you more often than not, but just like with the Allen situation you're off on this one.

[RunKC]

Conley was injured throughout training camp and wasn't completely healthy until the end of September.

Even with that, he put up nearly identical numbers to Nelson Agholor, a first rounder that went to Philly.

Conley has all the tools and smarts to have a 600+ yard season next year.

I agree and I loved the Conley pick from the moment it was made. I think he can be a real #2 WR next year and be a big upgrade over Wilson.

I think that one of these DL would make as big of an impact as Howard did this year.
There is a surplus of damn good DL and CB's. With Dorsey's affinity to gain insurance for high profile FA's, I can really see DL being the pick.

Hell. I can see him going DL and CB in the first 2 rounds with how much damn talent is there in this draft.

[O.city]

And it's just as irrational as your "cut Allen" bs before the season. I agree with you more often than not, but just like with the Allen situation you're off on this one.

Explain to me the use of the word irrational here?

I've laid out why I don't feel conley is a fit in the offense here (his size and stiff hips won't allow him to be a great technician and route runner as is) so how is that irrational?

[DJ's left nut]

I agree and I loved the Conley pick from the moment it was made. I think he can be a real #2 WR next year and be a big upgrade over Wilson.

I think that one of these DL would make as big of an impact as Howard did this year.
There is a surplus of damn good DL and CB's. With Dorsey's affinity to gain insurance for high profile FA's, I can really see DL being the pick.

Hell. I can see him going DL and CB in the first 2 rounds with how much damn talent is there in this draft.

If Jonathan Bullard fell to the Chiefs, I think it'd be damn hard to pass him up. He fits Howard's role on this team to a T.

Look at how quickly he can get off the line and into the backfield:

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/1/5/10703036/2016-nfl-draft-jonathan-bullard-profile-scouting-report-florida-gators

With Sutton favoring the 1-gap system and since he'll play a lot of 3-technique, his lack of length shouldn't be as big a problem and that first step will just blow him past the guards assigned to deal with him.

I love Bullard in this system.

[staylor26]

Explain to me the use of the word irrational here?

I've laid out why I don't feel conley is a fit in the offense here (his size and stiff hips won't allow him to be a great technician and route runner as is) so how is that irrational?

Because it is irrational to believe you know what is a fit better than Dorsey/Reid. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Not to mention there's a place in every offense in the NFL for guys that are 6'3" with 4.35 speed.

[O.city]

Because it is irrational to believe you know what is a fit better than Dorsey/Reid. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Not to mention there's a place in every offense in the NFL for guys that are 6'3" with 4.35 speed.

I'm sorry, but if that's the case, there's no reason to be here talking about any of this.

[jonzie04]

No WR is going to make a big impact year 1. Chris Conley was being raved for his intelligence and he didn't do much.

It's becoming more and more clear that Jaye Howard wants big money and I think that he was successful in part bc of Poe.

I think the best option (as of now) is to find Sean Smith's replacement as well as an OT or WR in free agency and then fill the rest in the draft.

It is looking like DL and CB is a huge strength in this draft

Why not?

[The Franchise]

Because it is irrational to believe you know what is a fit better than Dorsey/Reid. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Not to mention there's a place in every offense in the NFL for guys that are 6'3" with 4.35 speed.

So you've never disagreed with anything this team has ever done?

[staylor26]

I'm sorry, but if that's the case, there's no reason to be here talking about any of this.

Ok ignore the first part then, you really believe that there's an offense a guy with those measurables isn't a "fit" in?

[O.city]

Ok ignore the first part then, you really believe that there's an offense a guy with those measurables isn't a "fit" in?

In an offense that relies on timing and route running ability, yeah, those measurable aren't really the end all be all

[DJ's left nut]

Ok ignore the first part then, you really believe that there's an offense a guy with those measurables isn't a "fit" in?

When he cuts/turns like a cartoon character?

Absolutely.

This one.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Why not?

Andy's scheme is notorious for taking at least a season to get the hang of because of the route complexities, and the fact that he wants each receiver to know what each position is doing on each play.

Just tough for a rookie to come in and produce day 1. Big reason why Avant's spot has been safe. He knows the system and runs it correctly even though he may be the least skilled of the bunch.

[O.city]

I think they can use those skills and make him useful by letting him do what he excels at, but I also don't think the things he's great at or could be great at matchup with our qb, so I tend to feel it's a but of a waste.

Unless smith stays aggressive then, yeah, awesome

[staylor26]

When he cuts/turns like a cartoon character?

Absolutely.

This one.

I know your side of this. In fact that's why I'm picking on O.city bc I already know he's basing his opinion from what he's seen from you. 100%.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Seems like he's a hell of an athlete who thrives on getting yards once the ball is in his hands. How is that not a perfect fit for this offense? Seems ideal for the screens and end arounds Andy likes to run.

[DJ's left nut]

I know your side of this. In fact that's why I'm picking on O.city bc I already know he's basing his opinion from what he's seen from you. 100%.

In his defense, I liked the pick more than he did.

Though he does appear to have come to my side a bit w/r/t role within the offense.

[staylor26]

So you've never disagreed with anything this team has ever done?

Yes I have, but has Dorsey not shown enough to give the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't trade up for a WR that doesn't even fit this offense. He's shown the ability to identify scheme fits over and over again.

[jonzie04]

Andy's scheme is notorious for taking at least a season to get the hang of because of the route complexities, and the fact that he wants each receiver to know what each position is doing on each play.

Just tough for a rookie to come in and produce day 1. Big reason why Avant's spot has been safe. He knows the system and runs it correctly even though he may be the least skilled of the bunch.

I don't buy into that... Maclin had 750+ his rookie year, Jackson had over 900, Kelce had 850+ in essentially his rookie year. Terell Owens had arguably the best season of his NFL career in his first year under Reid. It may be a little harder than some other schemes but he said "no wr will make a big impact in year 1" There are a whole heap of guys who have made a big impact under Reid in year 1.

[The Franchise]

Yes I have

Then shut the fuck up when someone else does it.

[staylor26]

Seems like he's a hell of an athlete who thrives on getting yards once the ball is in his hands. How is that not a perfect fit for this offense? Seems ideal for the screens and end arounds Andy likes to run.

Exactly. Even if this guy can't ever run a full route tree he can make a living in this offense surrounded by Maclin/Kelce/Charles running slants/screens/posts/go routes.

[O.city]

I know your side of this. In fact that's why I'm picking on O.city bc I already know he's basing his opinion from what he's seen from you. 100%.

I never liked the pick to begin with.

Added with the stuff I've seen dj say, a guy who's opinion I value, I've become more bullish on the guy

[staylor26]

Then shut the **** up when someone else does it.

Go fuck yourself.

[DJ's left nut]

Seems like he's a hell of an athlete who thrives on getting yards once the ball is in his hands. How is that not a perfect fit for this offense? Seems ideal for the screens and end arounds Andy likes to run.

Nobody's saying that he doesn't possess skills that would look good here - it's an opportunity cost question.

Shepard is also a quick-twitch athlete with plus hands who runs great routes and can make a lot of noise in space. He'll likely be there in the 2nd and very possibly even the third.

Meanwhile someone like Bullard could come in here and help us keep the interior push that we're likely to lose when Howard hits the market. Hell, I really think Bullard can give us even more disruption than Howard in time.

I'm simply saying that there are a lot of guys that can do what we're asking for from the X receiver in this offense but are you willing to shell out a 1st round pick for one simply because he's taller? Because that's Miller's big difference right now, IMO. I don't think he's faster than Shepard and definitely don't think he's quicker in and out of his cuts. But because he's a taller guy with a little more room on his frame, he has genuine #1 potential where a guy like Shepard probably doesn't.

[The Franchise]

Go fuck yourself.

Eat a bullet, douchebag.

Get off that fucking pedestal that you've placed yourself on. OMG guyz....my opinions are super important....but fuck yours. Yours are stupid and worthless.

[DaneMcCloud]

Terell Owens had arguably the best season of his NFL career in his first year under Reid.

But Owens had been in the league for 8 years, with six of those years coming under Steve Mariucci, who ran the same version of the WCO as Reid, so he's not a good comparison.

His best year came under Jason Garrett in Dallas.

[O.city]

Nobody's saying that he doesn't possess skills that would look good here - it's an opportunity cost question.

Shepard is also a quick-twitch athlete with plus hands who runs great routes and can make a lot of noise in space. He'll likely be there in the 2nd and very possibly even the third.

Meanwhile someone like Bullard could come in here and help us keep the interior push that we're likely to lose when Howard hits the market. Hell, I really think Bullard can give us even more disruption than Howard in time.

I'm simply saying that there are a lot of guys that can do what we're asking for from the X receiver in this offense but are you willing to shell out a 1st round pick for one simply because he's taller? Because that's Miller's big difference right now, IMO. I don't think he's faster than Shepard and definitely don't think he's quicker in and out of his cuts. But because he's a taller guy with a little more room on his frame, he has genuine #1 potential where a guy like Shepard probably doesn't.

I had honestly forgotten about sheppard in this draft.

Hes got production at a big program to with that skillset.

Yeah, if I can have Jaylon smith and sheppard, I'll be fine

[O.city]

The thing with Conley is that he can be valuable if he can be a big bodied guy running Flys, posts, the occasional comeback.

But he's going to have to rely on straight line speed to get open. Against dbs in the nfl, that's tough. DeSean can do it, but that dude can fly.

[DaneMcCloud]

Meanwhile someone like Bullard could come in here and help us keep the interior push that we're likely to lose when Howard hits the market. Hell, I really think Bullard can give us even more disruption than Howard in time.

My only true "fear" about taking a DT/DE in the first round is that it's pretty rare that, due to conditioning, the 20 game season grind (and hopefully, 23-24) doesn't get to the young guys, especially the 300+ guys.

[staylor26]

Eat a bullet, douchebag.

Get off that ****ing pedestal that you've placed yourself on. OMG guyz....my opinions are super important....but **** yours. Yours are stupid and worthless.

Last time I argued with this guy it was about cutting Jeff Allen right before the season, so obviously there's a reason why I do this. I'm usually right when I do :D

[O.city]

My only true "fear" about taking a DT/DE in the first round is that it's pretty rare that, due to conditioning, the 20 game season grind (and hopefully, 23-24) doesn't get to the young guys, especially the 300+ guys.

Have to stay in rotation like they did this year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Have to stay in rotation like they did this year.

Oh yeah, for sure.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't buy into that... Maclin had 750+ his rookie year, Jackson had over 900, Kelce had 850+ in essentially his rookie year. Terell Owens had arguably the best season of his NFL career in his first year under Reid. It may be a little harder than some other schemes but he said "no wr will make a big impact in year 1" There are a whole heap of guys who have made a big impact under Reid in year 1.

Kelce was a TE; completely different responsibilities.

DeSean Jackson is interesting but also realize that he got 120 targets to get that 900 yards. That's not exactly efficient utilization. No rookie will be getting 120 targets as the X in this scheme - the Eagles clearly used him differently and since it took 120 targets to get 62 catches and less than 1,000 receiving yards, I'll say they weren't using him terribly effectively.

Maclin I'll give you. At 56 catches for 750 yards on 91 targets, that's pretty efficient usage. He was also running as the X in the system given Jackson's presence.

I figure 75-80 targets would be a pretty likely usage rate for the X in this system if he's playing well. Maclin seems to prove that the X can be a 50 catch, 700 yard player even as a rookie if it's the right player.

But then there's the Smith factor. Smith ain't throwing to you if he doesn't trust you. Can a rookie earn that trust quickly?

A leggy guy with route-running issues like Conley couldn't do it. Wilson the UDFA from a small college who wasn't used to advance passing concepts couldn't do it. Could you get a polished route-runner from an advanced system to get in sync with Smith quickly and thrive in this offense? Doesn't seem impossible.

I just don't know if I believe Braxton will be that guy given his inexperience as a WR.

I'd still prefer Bullard and Shepard (and dare not dream about Jaylon).

[DJ's left nut]

My only true "fear" about taking a DT/DE in the first round is that it's pretty rare that, due to conditioning, the 20 game season grind (and hopefully, 23-24) doesn't get to the young guys, especially the 300+ guys.

I'd be stunned if DeVito isn't back. He likes it here and he'll be affordable.

If you have Devito, Poe, Bailey, Williams, Nunez-Roches and Bullard, that's plenty of depth to have a legit rotation and keep Bullard fresh.

[staylor26]

Nobody's saying that he doesn't possess skills that would look good here - it's an opportunity cost question.

Shepard is also a quick-twitch athlete with plus hands who runs great routes and can make a lot of noise in space. He'll likely be there in the 2nd and very possibly even the third.

Meanwhile someone like Bullard could come in here and help us keep the interior push that we're likely to lose when Howard hits the market. Hell, I really think Bullard can give us even more disruption than Howard in time.

I'm simply saying that there are a lot of guys that can do what we're asking for from the X receiver in this offense but are you willing to shell out a 1st round pick for one simply because he's taller? Because that's Miller's big difference right now, IMO. I don't think he's faster than Shepard and definitely don't think he's quicker in and out of his cuts. But because he's a taller guy with a little more room on his frame, he has genuine #1 potential where a guy like Shepard probably doesn't.

DJ I've been hyping up Bullard all week. I agree 100% that he could be better than Howard in the long run.

[O.city]

Kelce was a TE; completely different responsibilities.

DeSean Jackson is interesting but also realize that he got 120 targets to get that 900 yards. That's not exactly efficient utilization. No rookie will be getting 120 targets as the X in this scheme - the Eagles clearly used him differently and since it took 120 targets to get 62 catches and less than 1,000 receiving yards, I'll say they weren't using him terribly effectively.

Maclin I'll give you. At 56 catches for 750 yards on 91 targets, that's pretty efficient usage. He was also running as the X in the system given Jackson's presence.

I figure 75-80 targets would be a pretty likely usage rate for the X in this system if he's playing well. Maclin seems to prove that the X can be a 50 catch, 700 yard player even as a rookie if it's the right player.

But then there's the Smith factor. Smith ain't throwing to you if he doesn't trust you. Can a rookie earn that trust quickly?

A leggy guy with route-running issues like Conley couldn't do it. Wilson the UDFA from a small college who wasn't used to advance passing concepts couldn't do it. Could you get a polished route-runner from an advanced system to get in sync with Smith quickly and thrive in this offense? Doesn't seem impossible.

I just don't know if I believe Braxton will be that guy given his inexperience as a WR.

I'd still prefer Bullard and Shepard (and dare not dream about Jaylon).

Yeah, Braxton seems like the ideal 2nd rounder,

[The Franchise]

I'd still prefer Bullard and Shepard (and dare not dream about Jaylon).

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/8/005/087/261/352b980.jpg

[staylor26]

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/8/005/087/261/352b980.jpg

Make yourself useful and find a way to make Jaylon fall. Fuck man.

[DJ's left nut]

Make yourself useful and find a way to make Jaylon fall. Fuck man.

I have my supplier sending weekly bundles of Hawaiian kush his way.

Fingers crossed...

[ChiefAshhole1056]

Don't know how to extract video but felt like this deserved to be here.

https://www.facebook.com/TheBuckeyeNut/videos/433289350197852/

[The Franchise]

Make yourself useful and find a way to make Jaylon fall. Fuck man.

Done.

https://fansrule.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/jaylon-smith.jpg

[staylor26]

Done.

https://fansrule.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/jaylon-smith.jpg

Would've been enough 3-5 years ago :(

[chiefzilla1501]

And for the record, the WR I'd target out of Ohio state would probably be Jalin Marshall. Like Miller, I'd want to see more of him, but I liked what I saw from him in limited exposure this year.

He played that goofy hybrid position that Meyer likes as a Soph as well as returned kicks. He's shown great ability in space and some nice vertical speed. If we're looking for a guy exclusively as a slot player (and it appears that's likely the case), Marshall would be an ideal fit.

I have no idea where he's likely to get drafted, though.

Jalin's a big risk. Big time playmaker, but also a big time idiot on the field. Drops way too much shit and makes the dumbest decisions imaginable as a punt returner. He seems like a boom/bust guy to me.

Braxton isn't as good of a pure receiver as Jalin. But he'd fit great in the Albert Wilson role. He's raw as a receiver but his ability to make plays after getting the ball is outstanding.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Too early to really say on all of this. Mock drafts are very blurry until the combine/FA/pro days are done with.

[chiefzilla1501]

Too early to really say on all of this. Mock drafts are very blurry until the combine/FA/pro days are done with.

I think the scouting report is pretty set on him. Good character guy, very athletic fast and shifty, raw receiving skills only because he hasn't trained much in it. I don't think the combine will reveal anything different unless he revolutionizes his route running in the next few months.

[Mr. Laz]

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/iiVrXZKhzlX/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

[Mr. Laz]

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/i57AlMqnYQz/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

[Mr. Laz]

Sterling Shepard>Braxton Miller


Shepard

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/ii3jpp9WPLx/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

[Red Dawg]

Something tells me Miller is a bone head and wants to play for a team he thinks is cool. I doubt by that is KC. I feel he will be unprofessional.

[brucey_72]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6D46ycATc

Miller is the perfect WR for the Chiefs offense. He will be at his best in the sweep, killer in the open field, and has good hands. The scary thing is he has only played one year of WR. Imagine what he will be when he develops. He is Harvin and Desean Jackson without the drama.

[brucey_72]

Something tells me Miller is a bone head and wants to play for a team he thinks is cool. I doubt by that is KC. I feel he will be unprofessional.


Not a chance in hell. I am an OSU fan, he is extremely humble. He could have left OSU to be a starting QB at several colleges, had a lot of offers. He also decided to move to WR because it was what was best for team and his career. He was already graduated and decided to come back and play another year. Very bright guy

[ChiefGator]

Was excited until I remembered he's no longer a QB.

This.. Laz's post is the first mentioning "WR", and I almost thought he was kidding. Then I remembered.

I hate all things Ohio State, so tend to ignore them as much as possible.

[Mav]

Not a chance in hell. I am an OSU fan, he is extremely humble. He could have left OSU to be a starting QB at several colleges, had a lot of offers. He also decided to move to WR because it was what was best for team and his career. He was already graduated and decided to come back and play another year. Very bright guy


It's amazing that anyone could see him as anything but humble.

[RunKC]

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/8/005/087/261/352b980.jpg

He'll go top 10 now. Maybe top 15 at worst. Sorry bud


@MattMiller-Insider Buzz: LB Jaylon Smith Expected to Be Ready for Start of 2016 Season bleacherreport.com/articles/26119… via @bleacherreport

[GloucesterChief]

He'll go top 10 now. Maybe top 15 at worst. Sorry bud


@MattMiller-Insider Buzz: LB Jaylon Smith Expected to Be Ready for Start of 2016 Season bleacherreport.com/articles/26119… via @bleacherreport

Have to think about maybe moving up in the 2nd for Scooby Wright then, if Wright's combine numbers are good.

[jonzie04]

Kelce was a TE; completely different responsibilities.

DeSean Jackson is interesting but also realize that he got 120 targets to get that 900 yards. That's not exactly efficient utilization. No rookie will be getting 120 targets as the X in this scheme - the Eagles clearly used him differently and since it took 120 targets to get 62 catches and less than 1,000 receiving yards, I'll say they weren't using him terribly effectively.

Maclin I'll give you. At 56 catches for 750 yards on 91 targets, that's pretty efficient usage. He was also running as the X in the system given Jackson's presence.

I figure 75-80 targets would be a pretty likely usage rate for the X in this system if he's playing well. Maclin seems to prove that the X can be a 50 catch, 700 yard player even as a rookie if it's the right player.

But then there's the Smith factor. Smith ain't throwing to you if he doesn't trust you. Can a rookie earn that trust quickly?

A leggy guy with route-running issues like Conley couldn't do it. Wilson the UDFA from a small college who wasn't used to advance passing concepts couldn't do it. Could you get a polished route-runner from an advanced system to get in sync with Smith quickly and thrive in this offense? Doesn't seem impossible.

I just don't know if I believe Braxton will be that guy given his inexperience as a WR.

I'd still prefer Bullard and Shepard (and dare not dream about Jaylon).

I agree with what you're saying...I also agree that we have a real shot next year, and i'd rather draft a guy that could help immediately, and Miller probably isn't that guy.

[O.city]

Fellas, I dunno that miller couldn't come in and play the x right away. I know he's inexperienced, but his videos at the senior bowl look pretty polished as a wr and he's an elite athlete.

[DaneMcCloud]

Fellas, I dunno that miller couldn't come in and play the x right away. I know he's inexperienced, but his videos at the senior bowl look pretty polished as a wr and he's an elite athlete.

With the buzz he's getting at Senior Bowl practices, it's unlikely he'd even make it to 28.

[RunKC]

We have a Braxton Miller. His name is Chris Conley

[the Talking Can]

24 yr old gadget player still learning his position?

in the first/second? meh...rather have an actual WR

[chiefzilla1501]

We have a Braxton Miller. His name is Chris Conley

Two very different receivers

[chiefzilla1501]

Andy's scheme is notorious for taking at least a season to get the hang of because of the route complexities, and the fact that he wants each receiver to know what each position is doing on each play.

Just tough for a rookie to come in and produce day 1. Big reason why Avant's spot has been safe. He knows the system and runs it correctly even though he may be the least skilled of the bunch.

In the beginning he could play the same role DAT did early on. And DAT isn't a guy who you'd consider receiver ready even in year 2. He would be a weapon right away. I don't think it would take him long to play Albert Wilson's role but do it better.

[Mr. Laz]

We have a Braxton Miller. His name is Chris Conley

Conley is not that quick

[DJ's left nut]

Conley is not that quick

Night and day.

When Conley's biggest problem is his quickness whereas that's probably Miller's greatest strength, it's pretty silly to try to say that Conley and Miller are similar players.

[O.city]

Everybody wants their own Edelman clone.

Theres your guy who would be a NIGHTMARE in those little option routes with that quickness and hip turn.

In the WCO, he's gotta be polished to run routes for sure, but with that ability, you guys are gonna tell me he can't play some X, play some slot, the DAT role and get 600 yards next year?

[DJ's left nut]

Everybody wants their own Edelman clone.

Theres your guy who would be a NIGHTMARE in those little option routes with that quickness and hip turn.

In the WCO, he's gotta be polished to run routes for sure, but with that ability, you guys are gonna tell me he can't play some X, play some slot, the DAT role and get 600 yards next year?

Shepard. 1000 times Shepard.

I'm more and more convinced that he would be absolute murder in this system. And being a little shorter, his functional quickness will actually be even better given his shorter stride length.

If the two guys run similar 3-cone drills, Shepard would have the better functional quickness. He's just a perfect fit and if he looks like a possible 3rd round guy, he's a no-brainer. He might be too nice a fit to pass up in the 2nd, truth be told.

[staylor26]

Shepard. 1000 times Shepard.

I'm more and more convinced that he would be absolute murder in this system. And being a little shorter, his functional quickness will actually be even better given his shorter stride length.

If the two guys run similar 3-cone drills, Shepard would have the better functional quickness. He's just a perfect fit and if he looks like a possible 3rd round guy, he's a no-brainer. He might be too nice a fit to pass up in the 2nd, truth be told.

Agreed. Best value at WR for us as it looks right now.

[O.city]

Shepard. 1000 times Shepard.

I'm more and more convinced that he would be absolute murder in this system. And being a little shorter, his functional quickness will actually be even better given his shorter stride length.

If the two guys run similar 3-cone drills, Shepard would have the better functional quickness. He's just a perfect fit and if he looks like a possible 3rd round guy, he's a no-brainer. He might be too nice a fit to pass up in the 2nd, truth be told.

I'm really on the either at this point, and I may be falling into the higher celining lower floor guy trap, but Miller may end up being what Harvin was supposed to be.

Of course Sheppard profiles as Antonio Brown for me, so fuck, yeah either is fine.

[RunKC]

Imagine if Albert Wilson could sell routes, put his body out for a catch and consistently force double teams due to very good footwork.

That's Shepard

[DJ's left nut]

Imagine if Albert Wilson could sell routes, put his body out for a catch and consistently force double teams due to very good footwork.

That's Shepard

And be faster.

Wilson's not slow, but he's not Shepard in terms of quickness.

Imagine if Donnie Avery could catch and stay on the field.

[O.city]

Sheppard at the X, with Conley out there some and Charles in the slot and I could run this offense next year.

[Amnorix]

And look at the Patriots history of trying to do the same thing - they almost invariably get a bunch of chaff for their efforts.


So incredibly wrong. Sure, sometimes they slid back and didn't get anything great, but many times it worked out awesome.

Example 1. Pats trade 2003 1st round pick to Ravens (so they could draft QB Kyle Boller). Pats get a 2003 2nd and a 2004 1st. The 2nd was was packed with another pick and got them Eugene Wilson (a decent starting safety for several years) and the 2004 1st was Vince Wilfork.


Hell, there's an article on Belichick's excellent draft maneuverings. The bottom line is that the draft is a crap shoot, and the Patriots make sure they get MORE than the average number of picks, especially those in good "value" spots (not top 10, prior to the NFL rookie salary restructuring), to maximize value relative to cap hit.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/




Here's another good one.


http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-minnesota-vikings-trade-cordarrelle-patterson-jamie-collins-110415

Back in 2013, the New England Patriots had the opportunity to draft Cordarrelle Patterson, the electrifying wide receiver out of Tennessee. They elected to pass on him at No. 29 overall, and instead made a trade with the Minnesota Vikings, who came up to get him.

The trade netted the Patriots second-, third-, fourth- and seventh-round picks, turning one player into four for New England. At first glance, the trade looked lopsided. At second glance two years later, it looks even more one-sided . . . for the Patriots.


Bottom line -- you don't go to 5 straight AFCCGs without a strong roster, and you don't get there despite many injuries such as this year, without a DEEP roster. The Patriots build that strong, deep roster by acquiring many, many picks.

[DJ's left nut]

Fucking Patriots radar engaged.

If nothing else, your Wilfork example proves my point. He demanded a 1st round pick in exchange for moving out of the 2nd. That's different than those death by 1000 papercut trades that they also make often; snagging a bunch of mid-round picks to move down.

Moreover, the question isn't whether or not they 'won' the deal, it's whether or not they'd have been better standing pat. Let's look at the Vikings deal - who cares that Patterson sucked? That's not who they would've drafted so it's irrelevant. They essentially traded their 1st for Collins and Logan Ryan. Boyce is the Chaff I'm talking about and the Pats traded a 7th for Blunt....they'd have simply traded their other 7th for him (Michael Buchanan) so no, I'm not buying that either.

Credit where it's due - Ryan stepped up big this year and became a nice contributor for them. But maybe the Pats should've just taken Collins in the first instead - that extra year of control may be a big deal when their best interior LBer is approaching FA. Moreover, maybe they should've stayed put and as a team that desperately needed a RB, taken LeVeon Bell.

And this isn't talking about all the little trades made through the middle rounds - I agree that those are usually solid trades to try to make. I'm definitely not talking about trading a pick this year for 2 higher picks next year (I'd love to make those). I'm talking about 1 specific sub-set: trading out of the first round. Specifically, trading out of the first round for anything less than at least two 2nds or a 2nd and a 1st the following season.

If BB simply didn't do that very often and demanded the kind of return that I am expecting to move out of the 1st, then so be it. I can live with that because it further emphasizes my point.

The Grantland piece also calls Belichick a draft guru and then holds him to the standards of the team that he traded with to see if he 'beat' the deal. That hardly makes sense because as I said, the question isn't if you did better than they did, it's if you did better than YOU would've done by staying put.

[Amnorix]

Fucking Patriots radar engaged.

LOL

Moreover, the question isn't whether or not they 'won' the deal, it's whether or not they'd have been better standing pat. Let's look at the Vikings deal - who cares that Patterson sucked? That's not who they would've drafted so it's irrelevant. They essentially traded their 1st for Collins and Logan Ryan. Boyce is the Chaff I'm talking about and the Pats traded a 7th for Blunt....they'd have simply traded their other 7th for him (Michael Buchanan) so no, I'm not buying that either.

Credit where it's due - Ryan stepped up big this year and became a nice contributor for them. But maybe the Pats should've just taken Collins in the first instead - that extra year of control may be a big deal when their best interior LBer is approaching FA. Moreover, maybe they should've stayed put and as a team that desperately needed a RB, taken LeVeon Bell.

This makes NO sense, because part of the reason they are willing to move down is to acquire MORE draft picks. Because you dont' freaking KNOW if Collins is going to turn into the stud that he did. Maybe he's the next FAILED draft pick, because such a high percentage of them are, even 1st rounders. People act like every 1st round pick SHOULD make a pro bowl or two, and every 2nd rounder SHOULD be a long-term, above average starter, etc., except that is NOT what happens.

What happens in the real world is that many, many draft picks are simply busts. Marginal NFL players or complete busts. Because of that you need to take more picks.

Sure, having Collins for an extra year would be great, but would I give up a very solid starting CB for that? Hell no.

And if they knew Leveon Bell was going to be so good, they WOULD have taken him. But they didn't. Neither did anyone else, becuase they didn't. Just like Tom Brady lasted until the 6th round, Joe Montana lasted until the 3rd, Antonio Brown the 6th, Terrell Davis the 6th, Julian Edelman the 7th, Aaron Rodgers 1st round, but 24 or whatever, etc. etc. etc. etc.

You move down and around to get MORE picks, because the draft is a crapshoot.

The Grantland piece also calls Belichick a draft guru and then holds him to the standards of the team that he traded with to see if he 'beat' the deal. That hardly makes sense because as I said, the question isn't if you did better than they did, it's if you did better than YOU would've done by staying put.

Agreed, that you're nto trying to beat the team you traded with, but you're trying to improve your own overall position.

And amassing more picks gives you more ammo to suffer the INEVITABLE misses that all teams do. It also gives you more flexibility to trade up if you want without blowing your draft up.

I can point to a first round quality draft pick in nearly every year the Patriots have operated under BB. The key is that many times they were NOT taken in the 1st round. How did he get them? Partly because he had MORE than the average number of picks to take players with.

Note alsot hat the compensatory draft picks system is another key for this. The Ravens (especially) and the Patriots are the masters of using that system to their advantage, and getting 4 extra picks every year.