Jaye Howard wants $8-9 million

[RunKC]

Default Jaye Howard Update
Per Bears beat writer @BradBiggs, #Chiefs DT Jaye Howard is seeking $8-9 million per year in free agency. https://t.co/OszUhiOk7j

[Hydrae]

Why are these being reported in Chicago papers and not KC?

[Bowser]

Welp, when you factor in Berry, DJ, possibly Sean Smith.....

[BossChief]

If these figures that are leaking are true, there is no reason we can't keep everyone.

[RunKC]

If these figures that are leaking are true, there is no reason we can't keep everyone.

Tag deadline tomorrow so looks like Berry is getting it.

Berry: 10.8
Smith: 8-10
Howard: 8-9

That's roughly 30 with those 3. I wonder if we will be forced to keep only 2.

[srvy]

Has the Chicago press reported on what Malik Jackson is wanting?

[The Franchise]

Tag deadline tomorrow so looks like Berry is getting it.

Berry: 10.8
Smith: 8-10
Howard: 8-9

That's roughly 30 with those 3. I wonder if we will be forced to keep only 2.

Smith and Howard's first year cap hits probably won't be anywhere near that.

[The Franchise]

Has the Chicago press reported on what Malik Jackson is wanting?

$14 million a year.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

I'm okay with him leaving. We drafted replacements for a reason and we have picks to use this year..

[staylor26]

Has the Chicago press reported on what Malik Jackson is wanting?

12 per last I heard.

[oldman]

I'd rather have Poe locked up long term.

[srvy]

I'd rather have Poe locked up long term.

Me to! But I dont know if I buy those numbers on Howard.

[Mr. Laz]

Why are these being reported in Chicago papers and not KC?

This ... i mean WTF?!


I wouldn't be against 8 million if it's structured right.

[Mr. Laz]

I'd rather have Poe locked up long term.
i'm tired of having to decide between good players

[mcaj22]

if he really only wants 8 how is he not signed already?

[LoneWolf]

I'm okay with him leaving. We drafted replacements for a reason and we have picks to use this year..

Of course. You haven't met a good Chiefs player you want to see the team spend money on.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Of course. You haven't met a good Chiefs player you want to see the team spend money on.

You see me complain about Bailey, Maclin, Kelce, Parker, Smith, Sherman, Hali, Abdullahs contracts? That's cause we got those on fair market value.

Are you one of those bowe apologists from last year looking to prove something??

[Saul Good]

Id let DJ walk if it was between Powe, Howard, Smith, Berry, and DJ.

[SAUTO]

You see me complain about Bailey, Maclin, Kelce, Parker, Smith, Sherman, Hali, Abdullahs contracts? That's cause we got those on fair market value.

Are you one of those bowe apologists from last year looking to prove something??

How do you know there were bowe apologists?

[MotherfuckerJones]

I don't see us retaining Howard or Smith sadly. Good thing this draft is deep in DL. We will be giving Poe a new deal and already locked up Bailey. How many resources can we put into the DL? Is like to keep him but it'd be expensive to pay Bailey, Howard and Poe.

[LoneWolf]

You see me complain about Bailey, Maclin, Kelce, Parker, Smith, Sherman, Hali, Abdullahs contracts? That's cause we got those on fair market value.

Are you one of those bowe apologists from last year looking to prove something??

No, I was glad to see Bowe leave. I'm one of those guys who think your football takes suck.

[staylor26]

I don't see us retaining Howard or Smith sadly. Good thing this draft is deep in DL. We will be giving Poe a new deal and already locked up Bailey. How many resources can we put into the DL? Is like to keep him but it'd be expensive to pay Bailey, Howard and Poe.

I think it's pretty obvious we will keep at least one. I don't know what would make you feel that way after today's news.

[Halfcan]

Id let DJ walk if it was between Powe, Howard, Smith, Berry, and DJ.

You would let our All Pro, All Time Leading tackler go to keep a guy that has had one good year with us and can be replaced much easier? :rolleyes:

My order would be DJ, Berry, Smith then Howard, Hali, Devito, while trying to extend Poe.

[O.city]

DJ is getting long in the tooth. Love the guy, but its a young mans game.

[Easy 6]

DJ is getting long in the tooth. Love the guy, but its a young mans game.

Obviously, I love all of these free agents of ours and with the numbers we're seeing its certainly seems possible to keep them all

But yeah, I really hope DJ is reasonable with his demands... everyone, including him, knows that he is nearing the end

[O.city]

I'd always prefer to keep our own free agents over outside FA's.

You know how they fit your system, what they can do, etc.

[Easy 6]

Absolutely, its how teams like pittsburgh always manage to plug someone in successfully

[RealSNR]

You see me complain about Bailey, Maclin, Kelce, Parker, Smith, Sherman, Hali, Abdullahs contracts? That's cause we got those on fair market value.



Are you one of those bowe apologists from last year looking to prove something??


Are you one of those Blackbobs who make mults that talk about things that happened before they joined the forum like they were there?

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Are you one of those Blackbobs who make mults that talk about things that happened before they joined the forum like they were there?

You ever wonder why the view counter next to each thread has a lot more people than those who are actively posting on this site?

Common sense. Use it.

[RealSNR]

LMAO

That'll teach me, I guess

[TimBone]

Id let DJ walk if it was between Powe, Howard, Smith, Berry, and DJ.
Shit, man. I don't know. DJ is huge in the run game, and even Mauga's play improved a ton with DJ lined up next to him last year.

[Saul Good]

You would let our All Pro, All Time Leading tackler go to keep a guy that has had one good year with us and can be replaced much easier? :rolleyes:

My order would be DJ, Berry, Smith then Howard, Hali, Devito, while trying to extend Poe.

Yes. I will take a 27 year old NT over a 33 year old MLB every time. And DJ hasn't been all pro for 5 seasons.

[TimBone]

DJ is getting long in the tooth. Love the guy, but its a young mans game.

Obviously, I love all of these free agents of ours and with the numbers we're seeing its certainly seems possible to keep them all

But yeah, I really hope DJ is reasonable with his demands... everyone, including him, knows that he is nearing the end
But it's not like DJ's performance on the field has fallen off. He'd still be a great leader for this team if they can get him on a reasonable 2 year deal.

[BigChiefFan]

There's too many quality DEs in the upcoming draft than to pay Howard that much. He's a really good player, but I'd rather throw money at Wilkerson or draft a rookie than pay a very good, not outstanding DE that kind of money.

[Easy 6]

But it's not like DJ's performance on the field has fallen off. He'd still be a great leader for this team if they can get him on a reasonable 2 year deal.

All true, but his performance WILL inevitably drop off soon, happens to the best of them

Pesty had the best idea in another thread, 3 year deal with the first guaranteed, second half guaranteed, year three is all about performance bonuses

[TimBone]

All true, but his performance WILL inevitably drop off soon, happens to the best of them

Pesty had the best idea in another thread, 3 year deal with the first guaranteed, second half guaranteed, year three is all about performance bonuses
I like Pest's deal. I almost said three year deal, but I worried about a dropoff in the third year.

[RunKC]

I want all of these guys to stay but with the way this draft is set up I wouldn't be heartbroken if we were to lose him.

But I really want this core to stay. Add to the defense that we had last year to make it elite.

[rico]

LMAO

That'll teach me, I guess

CommonSNsR

[BigMeatballDave]

Wish in one hand, shit in the other...

[The Franchise]

All true, but his performance WILL inevitably drop off soon, happens to the best of them

Pesty had the best idea in another thread, 3 year deal with the first guaranteed, second half guaranteed, year three is all about performance bonuses

I did?

Shit....yeah....I did. :D

[Mr. Laz]

I don't see us retaining Howard or Smith....
There is a reason why your middle name is 'fucker' :cuss:

[Saccopoo]

DJ is getting long in the tooth. Love the guy, but its a young mans game.

Dude was as good as anyone in the league at his position this past season. It's a game which is played by guys who can play it. DJ still can play it at elite level.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

DJ and Hali are both getting to that time where you need to really evaluate their future. They are both in their last year or two.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm okay with him leaving.

In a case of true irony, all of Chiefsplanet is more than "okay" with you leaving

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

In a case of true irony, all of Chiefsplanet is more than "okay" with you leaving

As long as I donate, stir the pot from time to time on my days off from the ED, and give people reasons to post angry replies then Ill be here for awhile, I think. :)

[Chiefaholic]

i'm tired of having to decide between good players


Better than the Haley / Pioli years when we had to debate if anybody on the roster was even worth the franchise designation. But, yeah it does suck knowing were going to lose good players and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. Hopefully, Dorsey drafts well and we don't lose a beat on defense.

[DaneMcCloud]

i'm tired of having to decide between good players

It's a great problem to have

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Better than the Haley / Pioli years when we had to debate if anybody on the roster was even worth the franchise designation. But, yeah it does suck knowing were going to lose good players and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. Hopefully, Dorsey drafts well and we don't lose a beat on defense.

They did a stand up job after Hudson was let go.

[Halfcan]

Yes. I will take a 27 year old NT over a 33 year old MLB every time. And DJ hasn't been all pro for 5 seasons.

:shake:
4× Pro Bowl (2011, 2012, 2013, 2015)
First-team All-Pro (2011)
Second-team All-Pro (2015)
PFWA All-AFC (2012)
Pro Bowl Defensive MVP (2013)
4× AFC Defensive Player of the Week
(Week 4 2008, Week 17, 2009, Week 15, 2010, Week 8, 2011)[1]
Mack Lee Hill Award (2005)
College
Dick Butkus Award (2004)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2004)
Jack Lambert Trophy (2004)
Consensus All-American (2003, 2004)
First-team All-Big 12 (2002, 2003, 2004)

I would take DJ all day -every day-over a guy with one good year. Chiefs have been burned by overpaying DL- but we know DJ is the most consistent player on our defense.

[MahiMike]

These guys are gonna leave no room for Peyton.

[The Franchise]

These guys are gonna leave no room for Peyton.

We're leaving plenty of room for him.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1954491.1411772765!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/casket.jpg

[saphojunkie]

Signing DJ has nothing to do with signing Howard.

[RunKC]

Update:

Howard was on Sirius radio and said he loves KC, the fans, management, etc but at this point he's looking out for his family.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/3/4/11160230/jaye-howard-chiefs-free-agency-its-kinda-up-in-the-air-i-would

Sounds like he's gone. Hello first Rd DL?

[BossChief]

I wonder how much Allen Bailey has to do with this.

I bet he'd be pissed if we give Howard 9m per and he only got 6.

Hopefully they can figure something out with Poe and the FA market for Howard isn't as lucrative as he hopes.

[Mr. Laz]

The FA market for DL could suck because of the draft.

Supposedly a shit ton of DL available, talent should be available through 3 or 4 rounds

[O.city]

I'd rather have howard than a draft pick. He's in your system, you know what he can do.

[The Franchise]

I'd rather have howard than a draft pick. He's in your system, you know what he can do.

Yep.

[RunKC]

I'd rather have howard than a draft pick. He's in your system, you know what he can do.

I want him back but let's be honest here. He's going to hit the market and I bet some team like the Jags will give him $11 million.
I don't think we can afford to give him that.

[RealSNR]

I wonder how much Allen Bailey has to do with this.

I bet he'd be pissed if we give Howard 9m per and he only got 6.

Hopefully they can figure something out with Poe and the FA market for Howard isn't as lucrative as he hopes.

Bailey basically admitted as much when he signed his extension that he was petrified of getting hurt and missing out on the money he could have had. Considering that 2014 was basically his first year in which he really made much of an impact, I probably would have done the same, considering I'm not much of a gambler.

I doubt Bailey would care at all if Howard got way more AAV were he to sign with KC

[O.city]

I want him back but let's be honest here. He's going to hit the market and I bet some team like the Jags will give him $11 million.
I don't think we can afford to give him that.

Maybe.

[saphojunkie]

Howard is gone, man.

Not sure that's the best thing. Between him and Poe, it's kind of a toss-up who you'd spend the money on. Poe is proven, but has had back issues.

Howard has one proven year, but is young and could be a perennial pro-bowler for you.

Not an easy decision to make, frankly, because Howard being a one hit wonder and Poe's back going out are probably even odds.

So, you draft a DL in the first round to hedge your bets and watch as Paxton Lynch goes to the Patriots.

[saphojunkie]

I want him back but let's be honest here. He's going to hit the market and I bet some team like the Raiders will give him $11 million.
I don't think we can afford to give him that.

Fixed, sadly.

[RunKC]

Gus Bradley was coaching Jaye Howard in Seattle a few years ago. With all the money and familiarity, I think that's a good guess to where he ends up

[O.city]

Howard is the type of free agent you pay though. You developed him in house and he's an ascending player

[O.city]

Gus Bradley was coaching Jaye Howard in Seattle a few years ago. With all the money and familiarity, I think that's a good guess to where he ends up

People here keep saying that, not sure it makes sense. He didn't excel in that system like he did in our front so I'm not sure he's what they'd be looking for.

[ModSocks]

People here keep saying that, not sure it makes sense. He didn't excel in that system like he did in our front so I'm not sure he's what they'd be looking for.

He was also a noob back then though.

[RunKC]

Howard is the type of free agent you pay though. You developed him in house and he's an ascending player

Yeah but if I had to choose it would be Sean Smith. He's good now and losing him killed us last year.
DeVito is cheap and this draft can give us a very good DL to replace him.

We have options if we lose Howard. Not so much if we lose Smith at such a difficult position.

[RealSNR]

Howard is gone, man.

Not sure that's the best thing. Between him and Poe, it's kind of a toss-up who you'd spend the money on. Poe is proven, but has had back issues.

Howard has one proven year, but is young and could be a perennial pro-bowler for you.

Not an easy decision to make, frankly, because Howard being a one hit wonder and Poe's back going out are probably even odds.

So, you draft a DL in the first round to hedge your bets and watch as Paxton Lynch goes to the Patriots.


Howard's not what I would call a one-hit wonder. Allen Bailey is the one ran the risk of being a one-hit wonder. Almost no starting experience prior to 2014. In fact, I don't think he started any games at all outside of the backup bowl 2013 game against San Diego. And the Chiefs still extended him before he was even done with his first full year of being a pretty good starting DE.

Howard was pretty decent filing in for DeVito in 2014 and only got better. He showed the Chiefs far more than a lot of rookies show their teams before they get second contracts.

[staylor26]

Just sign one of Smith/Howard and I'm good.

[SAUTO]

LMAO

That'll teach me, I guess

Actually he's said that he argued with posters over stuff the happened prior to his join date.


He's a fucking liar, and VERY weird

[O.city]

Yeah but if I had to choose it would be Sean Smith. He's good now and losing him killed us last year.
DeVito is cheap and this draft can give us a very good DL to replace him.

We have options if we lose Howard. Not so much if we lose Smith at such a difficult position.

Which guy is likely to bring the most value from the contract though? Smith will inevitably hit the wall sooner than howard, and it's probably gonna be abrupt.

Some keep saying it's as easy as "just draft and refill". No, not usually.

Howard is good against the run and pass. For all the merit it gets, this drafts dl has alot of good against the run, unknown vs the pass kind of guys. Maybe they develop, maybe not.

I'm also not a fan of the Sean smith out killed us last year. Yes, it hurt us, but dj coming back from injury, berry, Poe etc, playing good offenses early hurt.

Plus we had a negative a corner. If they go into the season with an adequate replacement for Sean smith, they're not gonna lose as much production as they will from howard, imo.

[MotherfuckerJones]

We have to keep Poe and I'm leaning towards really wanting Howard back as insurance to go along with his productivity

[staylor26]

Which guy is likely to bring the most value from the contract though? Smith will inevitably hit the wall sooner than howard, and it's probably gonna be abrupt.

Some keep saying it's as easy as "just draft and refill". No, not usually.

Howard is good against the run and pass. For all the merit it gets, this drafts dl has alot of good against the run, unknown vs the pass kind of guys. Maybe they develop, maybe not.

I'm also not a fan of the Sean smith out killed us last year. Yes, it hurt us, but dj coming back from injury, berry, Poe etc, playing good offenses early hurt.

Plus we had a negative a corner. If they go into the season with an adequate replacement for Sean smith, they're not gonna lose as much production as they will from howard, imo.

While I do agree that Howard is the guy you keep, mostly due to age, this defense wouldn't miss a beat and could possibly be even better with Smith/Peters/Gaines locking shit down.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Hopefully they can figure something out with Poe and the FA market for Howard isn't as lucrative as he hopes.
The teams that miss out on Malik Jackson will then turn their attention to Howard.

The Chiefs could still bring him back, but they'll probably be competing with multiple teams for him (possibly even Elway).

[RunKC]

Which guy is likely to bring the most value from the contract though? Smith will inevitably hit the wall sooner than howard, and it's probably gonna be abrupt.

Some keep saying it's as easy as "just draft and refill". No, not usually.

Howard is good against the run and pass. For all the merit it gets, this drafts dl has alot of good against the run, unknown vs the pass kind of guys. Maybe they develop, maybe not.

I'm also not a fan of the Sean smith out killed us last year. Yes, it hurt us, but dj coming back from injury, berry, Poe etc, playing good offenses early hurt.

Plus we had a negative a corner. If they go into the season with an adequate replacement for Sean smith, they're not gonna lose as much production as they will from howard, imo.

That's definitelt true, but what scares me is having a situation with Fleming/Cooper starting. I think Smith has more value now due to the draft and it being so difficult to find corners like him.
We got so lucky with Peters even being available and doing so well year 1, but those talents rarely occur.

I would overpay for Sean Smith due to the value he provides. And I think he could play at a high level for 2 more years, but at that token I want us to draft another CB as insurance.

My point is that if we lose Howard, we have 2 good players in Bailey and Poe along with a cheap DeVito (he wants to be here) and 2 decent developmental guys in Williams and Roches who seem to fit the system and might grow over the next year with the ability to draft another good talent from this amazing DL class.
Looking at CB, you have a great CB, a good one coming off an ACL, a decent prospect who hasn't proven much and 2 catastrophes that killed us last year. Yikes.
We really need to replace Fleming and Cooper. Cooper needs to be cut. He fell off and hasn't shown any improvement in 2 seasons since his breakout year.

That kind of uncertainty makes me nervous about the position

[O.city]

Going into the season with Fleming and or cooper starting isn't going to happen though.

[RunKC]

My ideal situation would be to keep Sean Smith and draft Juston Burris in the 3rd or 4th Rd. He's very similar to Smith and played press and off man at NC State. Sounds like he needs some help with his footwork which shouldn't be difficult.

I think Nelson is ready to take over for Fleming as the #4 CB/nickel CB. Having a guy like Burris developing to take over for Smith would be a great plan IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

My ideal situation would be to keep Sean Smith and draft Juston Burris in the 3rd or 4th Rd. He's very similar to Smith and played press and off man at NC State. Sounds like he needs some help with his footwork which shouldn't be difficult.

I think Nelson is ready to take over for Fleming as the #4 CB/nickel CB. Having a guy like Burris developing to take over for Smith would be a great plan IMO.

That's pure speculation.

If the Chiefs lose Howard, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round. If the Chiefs lose Smith, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round, although I'm leaning towards the first.

They'll have to hope that Nick Williams and Nunez-Roches continue to ascend, that Poe and Bailey continue to play at a high level, re-sign DeVito as a run stuffer and that whomever they draft can be a solid, first year, rotational player.

As for cornerback, unless they can retain Smith or sign a guy like Jenkins (who may not fit) or Jeremy Lane, their highest priority will be cornerback.

There's just no way around it and a 4th rounder isn't likely contribute in his rookie season, other than Special Teams.

[O.city]

That's pure speculation.

If the Chiefs lose Howard, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round. If the Chiefs lose Smith, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round, although I'm leaning towards the first.

They'll have to hope that Nick Williams and Nunez-Roches continue to ascend, that Poe and Bailey continue to play at a high level, re-sign DeVito as a run stuffer and that whomever they draft can be a solid, first year, rotational player.

As for cornerback, unless they can retain Smith or sign a guy like Jenkins (who may not fit) or Jeremy Lane, their highest priority will be cornerback.

There's just no way around it and a 4th rounder isn't likely contribute in his rookie season, other than Special Teams.

I just don't think drafting for immediate need fits Dorsey and company's style. They've drafted for need but not guys that immediately are asked to step in and play.

Peters did, but that was a bit unexpected that he'd fall that far in the draft.

Its still super early thougj, so who knows what happens.

[O.city]

They've been linked to talking to some of their free agents, smith isn't one I've seen.

Seems they got what they expected from him, now find the next one.

[O.city]

Also, look at it this way.

Which guy, smith or howard, could still improve?

[RunKC]

That's pure speculation.

If the Chiefs lose Howard, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round. If the Chiefs lose Smith, they'll need to draft his replacement in the first or second round, although I'm leaning towards the first.

They'll have to hope that Nick Williams and Nunez-Roches continue to ascend, that Poe and Bailey continue to play at a high level, re-sign DeVito as a run stuffer and that whomever they draft can be a solid, first year, rotational player.

As for cornerback, unless they can retain Smith or sign a guy like Jenkins (who may not fit) or Jeremy Lane, their highest priority will be cornerback.

There's just no way around it and a 4th rounder isn't likely contribute in his rookie season, other than Special Teams.

I would rather depend on Smith than Howard due to the draft and learning curve for the position. Sean Smith should still be good in 2016, however I really think we need to draft a CB somewhere whether he's back or not.

Dorsey has a tough job ahead of him. I hope be can keep one of the two at the very least.

[DaneMcCloud]

I just don't think drafting for immediate need fits Dorsey and company's style. They've drafted for need but not guys that immediately are asked to step in and play.

Peters did, but that was a bit unexpected that he'd fall that far in the draft.

Its still super early though, so who knows what happens.

I think they can take a CB or DT/DE or even a Safety (depending on how that shakes out with Abdullah & Branch) without it appearing as reaching for a need.

I'd be really shocked to see them take any other position in the first two rounds, with maybe the exception of a WR.

[O.city]

Dl has one of the toughest learning curves on the league though. I think you'd have a better chance getting early return from a corner than a dl

[O.city]

I think they can take a CB or DT/DE or even a Safety (depending on how that shakes out with Abdullah & Branch) without it appearing as reaching for a need.

I'd be really shocked to see them take any other position in the first two rounds, with maybe the exception of a WR.

I agree, save for safety. They've got 2 really good ones and have shown the ability to bring in cheaper options foe that.

I think it'll end up being dl or lb in the first with an outside shot at a wr.

[staylor26]

Dl has one of the toughest learning curves on the league though. I think you'd have a better chance getting early return from a corner than a dl

True, but you could also use a combination of guys to replace Howard, while you can't at corner.

DeVito and Williams can be your run stuffers, while Nunez-Roches and a draft pick (hopefully the pick obviously) can be your situational pass rushers.

[O.city]

True, but you could also use a combination of guys to replace Howard, while you can't at corner.

DeVito and Williams can be your run stuffers, while Nunez-Roches and a draft pick (hopefully the pick obviously) can be your situational pass rushers.

That leaves you open to getting gashed or having no pass rush and makes you guess. The reason for out success up front this year was that all those guys are versatile pass and run.

Or you can pay money to keep the one guy whose shown he can do it all.

[MotherfuckerJones]

Corner is probably my first choice in FA or draft. I'm curious how this all unfolds

[staylor26]

That leaves you open to getting gashed or having no pass rush and makes you guess. The reason for out success up front this year was that all those guys are versatile pass and run.

Or you can pay money to keep the one guy whose shown he can do it all.

You're overthinking this. Getting back all of our key players on D (except Howard) and adding Gaines and a couple draft picks, our defense will have enough talent to be dominant with a DL rotation like that. It's not like Poe and Bailey will be gone too.

Like I said, I'd prefer Howard due to age, but there are certainly benefits to keeping Smith also.

[O.city]

You're overthinking this. Getting back all of our key players on D (except Howard) and adding Gaines and a couple draft picks, our defense will have enough talent to be dominant with a DL rotation like that. It's not like Poe and Bailey will be gone too.

Like I said, I'd prefer Howard due to age, but there are certainly benefits to keeping Smith also.

Howard, Poe and Allen allow you to have a really great DL rotation, makes it easier to stay in the subset nickel and defend the pass and run.

You run the risk of losing that.

And FWIW, Howard was a key part of the defense. Take him off the DL, it's not likely to be the dominant force it was this past season.

[O.city]

You also have to weight in the offfield stuff with Smith. He had the DUI, missed 4 games, didn't appeal for some reason.

I don't think he's a problem guy at all, but when weighed against Howard, I'm taking the younger, DLman everytime.

[Saccopoo]

We do remember what this defense looked like while Smith was suspended and when he came back, right?

[staylor26]

Howard, Poe and Allen allow you to have a really great DL rotation, makes it easier to stay in the subset nickel and defend the pass and run.

You run the risk of losing that.

And FWIW, Howard was a key part of the defense. Take him off the DL, it's not likely to be the dominant force it was this past season.

I think having 3 really good corners (not to mention having Parker's speed back at safety) would offset the loss in our pass rush (along with a draft pick which you just keep assuming won't be able to contribute AT ALL). DeVito and Williams are good enough against the run. Also, we didn't use Howard at all in nickel in '14 (Bailey/Poe) and the pass rush was fine.

Again, I'm not saying I'd chose Smith, but in terms of next season it's arguable losing him would have more of an immediate effect.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Smith is likely not going to age well. I'd rather pay Howard, if I had to choose.

[O.city]

I think having 3 really good corners (not to mention having Parker's speed back at safety) would offset the loss in our pass rush (along with a draft pick which you just keep assuming won't be able to contribute AT ALL).

Again, I'm not saying I'd chose Smith, but in terms of next season it's arguable losing him would have more of an immediate effect.

A DL we pick at 28 isn't going to produce as Howard would. I don't think thats really an out there statement to make.

I'm arguing that the rhetoric here that "just let him walk and throw a draft pick at it" isn't a shoe in strategy most feel it will be.

[Saccopoo]

A DL we pick at 28 isn't going to produce as Howard would. I don't think thats really an out there statement to make.

I'm arguing that the rhetoric here that "just let him walk and throw a draft pick at it" isn't a shoe in strategy most feel it will be.

Howard's numbers are totally repeatable by either Williams or Nunez-Roches playing next to Poe and Bailey with Hali on that side.

Howard is getting far too much credit here.

DeVito was just as good and was coming off an achilles.

You resign DeVito and up Williams and Roches minutes.

Position filled and you don't even have to draft for a replacement.

Sean Smith? Again, does anyone not remember how fucking bad it was without him in the lineup?

[staylor26]

A DL we pick at 28 isn't going to produce as Howard would. I don't think thats really an out there statement to make.

I'm arguing that the rhetoric here that "just let him walk and throw a draft pick at it" isn't a shoe in strategy most feel it will be.

Isn't that exactly what you're saying about replacing Sean Smith? It's not going to be any easier to replace a top 10-15 CB.

At least we can slowly bring the DL along with DeVito and Williams.

[O.city]

I think having 3 really good corners (not to mention having Parker's speed back at safety) would offset the loss in our pass rush (along with a draft pick which you just keep assuming won't be able to contribute AT ALL). DeVito and Williams are good enough against the run. Also, we didn't use Howard at all in nickel in '14 (Bailey/Poe) and the pass rush was fine.

Again, I'm not saying I'd chose Smith, but in terms of next season it's arguable losing him would have more of an immediate effect.

So we're going to throw out 2015 season for Howard against the pass?

Versatile DL in the NFL aren't as easy to come by as that. Devito is going to be 34, he is a fine rotational guy to keep around sure, but thats not someone you're gonna depend a whole lot on. For too long we had DL that were "fine" against the run, but we'd get assaulted against the pass and vice versa.

Now we have 3 guys who are great at both. I'd keep those 3 over an aging corner who relies on his physical size and presence to win. Not that using those are a bad thing, at all.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Howard's numbers are totally repeatable by either Williams or Nunez-Roches playing next to Poe and Bailey with Hali on that side.

Howard is getting far too much credit here.

DeVito was just as good and was coming off an achilles.

You resign DeVito and up Williams and Roches minutes.

Position filled and you don't even have to draft for a replacement.

Sean Smith? Again, does anyone not remember how ****ing bad it was without him in the lineup?

Let howard go. We'll get a 3rd comp pick next year too. Hoozah!!

[O.city]

Howard's numbers are totally repeatable by either Williams or Nunez-Roches playing next to Poe and Bailey with Hali on that side.

Howard is getting far too much credit here.

DeVito was just as good and was coming off an achilles.

You resign DeVito and up Williams and Roches minutes.

Position filled and you don't even have to draft for a replacement.

Sean Smith? Again, does anyone not remember how ****ing bad it was without him in the lineup?

Devito was not just as good. Not close.

It's also not as if Sean Smith was injured. He missed those games because of himself.

And I'm pretty sure that wasn't the only reason those games went as they did.

[Saccopoo]

So we're going to throw out 2015 season for Howard against the pass?

Versatile DL in the NFL aren't as easy to come by as that. Devito is going to be 34, he is a fine rotational guy to keep around sure, but thats not someone you're gonna depend a whole lot on. For too long we had DL that were "fine" against the run, but we'd get assaulted against the pass and vice versa.

Now we have 3 guys who are great at both. I'd keep those 3 over an aging corner who relies on his physical size and presence to win. Not that using those are a bad thing, at all.

Aging?

He's 29.

You aren't going to replace his unique abilities in this system with a draft pick - at least the first season. Peters was an anomoly and plays off of Smith extremely well. I wouldn't want two Peters out there anyway.

[O.city]

Isn't that exactly what you're saying about replacing Sean Smith? It's not going to be any easier to replace a top 10-15 CB.

At least we can slowly bring the DL along with DeVito and Williams.

No.

What do you think is easier to find in todays NFL though.

[RunKC]

I'm far more confident with our ability to hide the loss of Howard compared to Smith.

[DaneMcCloud]

Howard's numbers are totally repeatable by either Williams or Nunez-Roches playing next to Poe and Bailey with Hali on that side.

Speculation

Howard is getting far too much credit here.

No, he's not.

DeVito was just as good and was coming off an achilles.

No, he's not

Sean Smith? Again, does anyone not remember how fucking bad it was without him in the lineup?

This is WAY overstated.

The Chiefs beat the Texans handily in Texas without Smith.

The Chiefs had the lead against the Broncos, 24-17, with 30 seconds left before two bizarre plays gave the Broncos the win.

The Chiefs offense completely stalled against the Packers in Green Bay on MNF and lost 38-28.

While I'd like to see Smith on a 2 year deal, the fact of the matter is that he can likely be replaced with a player 80% as good with no visible dropoff to the defense.

[O.city]

Aging?

He's 29.

You aren't going to replace his unique abilities in this system with a draft pick - at least the first season. Peters was an anomoly and plays off of Smith extremely well. I wouldn't want two Peters out there anyway.

He doesn't rely on technique to be successful, hes a measurable size guy, with long arms and just adequate speed.

Once the speeds gone, he's probably done.

Now, I doubt that happens this year, maybe not next. But I doubt you're getting him on a 2 or 3 year deal. Those last few years could get pretty rough there.

[staylor26]

So we're going to throw out 2015 season for Howard against the pass?

Versatile DL in the NFL aren't as easy to come by as that. Devito is going to be 34, he is a fine rotational guy to keep around sure, but thats not someone you're gonna depend a whole lot on. For too long we had DL that were "fine" against the run, but we'd get assaulted against the pass and vice versa.

Now we have 3 guys who are great at both. I'd keep those 3 over an aging corner who relies on his physical size and presence to win. Not that using those are a bad thing, at all.

I'm not throwing out anything, just an example that our pass defense/rush has been great without Howard before, and DeVito and Williams are good enough against the run to pick up the slack there.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm far more confident with our ability to hide the loss of Howard compared to Smith.

I disagree.

Re-sign Howard, draft an Eli Apple or William Jackson or equivalent.

Win.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not throwing out anything, just an example that our pass defense/rush has been great without Howard before, and DeVito and Williams are good enough against the run to pick up the slack there.

DeVito's in his 30's and he could hit the wall at any point in time.

That's not a guy that I want to count on.

If he plays well, it's a bonus but it's far from a certainty.

[Saccopoo]

Devito was not just as good. Not close.

It's also not as if Sean Smith was injured. He missed those games because of himself.

And I'm pretty sure that wasn't the only reason those games went as they did.

I'm pretty sure that it was the single biggest reason that those games went as they did. It was night and day as soon as he was back on the field.

And DeVito had a very good season.

To tell you the truth, I'm not a huge Howard fan. Bad lapses in judgement (personal fouls and penalities are a problem). 5.5 sacks. Playing off of Poe and Hali. DeVito had 3 last year as well.

And it's not like Howard was some first round, can't miss wunderkind. He was a fourth round pick who was discarded by the team that originally picked him.

Again, I am absolutely positive that his numbers are totally replaceable by either Williams or Roches, who are just as big and athletic. And I would hope that either wouldn't have the dumb ass penalties that plague Howard. You want to praise Dorsey for finding guys like Howard? Well, then you let him walk and let Williams and Roches do the same exact thing.

No fucking way I'd pay him 8 million per. No fucking way.

[O.city]

Speculation



No, he's not.



No, he's not



This is WAY overstated.

The Chiefs beat the Texans handily in Texas without Smith.

The Chiefs had the lead against the Broncos, 24-17, with 30 seconds left before two bizarre plays gave the Broncos the win.

The Chiefs offense completely stalled against the Packers in Green Bay on MNF and lost 38-28.

While I'd like to see Smith on a 2 year deal, the fact of the matter is that he can likely be replaced with a player 80% as good with no visible dropoff to the defense.

I'm in 100% agreement with the bolded part. Sean Smith is a perfect fit in this scheme and defense and I'd love to keep him.

But from an economical standpoint, I don't think it makes sense.

Positional side of it, I think it's easier to find a corner 80% of Sean Smith than a DL 80% of Howard and I think the DL is more important, especially in todays NFL.

I also don't think they'll have to draft a replacement for Smith, I would imagine that could be done in free agency, similarly to how Smith was.

I really wish they could have gotten deals done with Howard and Berry and tagged Smith.

[Saccopoo]

No.

What do you think is easier to find in todays NFL though.

For a 34 front that uses press man nearly exclusively?

The cornerback.

And it's not even close.

[O.city]

I'm pretty sure that it was the single biggest reason that those games went as they did. It was night and day as soon as he was back on the field.

And DeVito had a very good season.

To tell you the truth, I'm not a huge Howard fan. Bad lapses in judgement (personal fouls and penalities are a problem). 5.5 sacks. Playing off of Poe and Hali. DeVito had 3 last year as well.

And it's not like Howard was some first round, can't miss wunderkind. He was a fourth round pick who was discarded by the team that originally picked him.

Again, I am absolutely positive that his numbers are totally replaceable by either Williams or Roches, who are just as big and athletic. And I would hope that either wouldn't have the dumb ass penalties that plague Howard. You want to praise Dorsey for finding guys like Howard? Well, then you let him walk and let Williams and Roches do the same exact thing.

No ****ing way I'd pay him 8 million per. No ****ing way.

You can replace everything you said here about Howard with SMiths name and it's the same though.

At this point, it doesn't matter what or where he was drafted. We've got a growth curve of his abilites to see.

I'd argue that Peters improvement, the offensive improvement along with DJ Berry and others getting back to speed were just as big, but thats semantics.

[staylor26]

I want Howard instead of Smith also, but this defense will be dominant either way if we just keep 1.

Smith/Gaines/Peters at corner, Parker/Berry at safety, and Houston/Ford/Poe rushing the passer.

That's a Super Bowl defense.

[O.city]

For a 34 front that uses press man nearly exclusively?

The cornerback.

And it's not even close.

What does what front we run have to do with the backend?

And you're of the belief that it's easier to find a 34 DE/NT with the ability Howard has than a press corner? After watching the CHiefs try and do it for years?

[O.city]

I'm not throwing out anything, just an example that our pass defense/rush has been great without Howard before, and DeVito and Williams are good enough against the run to pick up the slack there.

But 2014 really has no relevance to now in those terms.

Yeah, our pass rush was great then, with Houston at 22 sacks and Fleming/Cooper starting at Corner.

By that line of thinking, we don't need to resign either.

[O.city]

If we're gonna praise Dorsey for finding Sean Smith at his contract, why not let him try and do that again?

[Saccopoo]

You can replace everything you said here about Howard with SMiths name and it's the same though.

At this point, it doesn't matter what or where he was drafted. We've got a growth curve of his abilites to see.

I'd argue that Peters improvement, the offensive improvement along with DJ Berry and others getting back to speed were just as big, but thats semantics.

It's not the same.

We have two guys on the roster in Williams and Roches who are the exact same guys as Howard from a size and athletic perspective. Small school guys who needed this past year to grow and learn, but both flashed this past season.

There is absolutely no one on this roster past Smith and Peters who can effectively play press man coverage at the NFL level. None. And you can't expect a rookie to do what Peters did this past season. Not against NFL receivers and QBs.

[staylor26]

But 2014 really has no relevance to now in those terms.

Yeah, our pass rush was great then, with Houston at 22 sacks and Fleming/Cooper starting at Corner.

By that line of thinking, we don't need to resign either.

So if we lose Howard somehow this D is going to regress?

With Peters and Gaines instead of Flemming/Cooper?

[O.city]

It's not the same.

We have two guys on the roster in Williams and Roches who are the exact same guys as Howard from a size and athletic perspective. Small school guys who needed this past year to grow and learn, but both flashed this past season.

There is absolutely no one on this roster past Smith and Peters who can effectively play press man coverage at the NFL level. None. And you can't expect a rookie to do what Peters did this past season. Not against NFL receivers and QBs.

Show me where/when Roches flashed at anything. Really, the same with Williams, but atleast he played a few downs.

If you're going with those 2 flashed, then the CB from oregon state flashed just as much, throw him out there.

Fuck, I don't even know his name either.

[Saccopoo]

If we're gonna praise Dorsey for finding Sean Smith at his contract, why not let him try and do that again?

Smith wanted out of Miami and he (and this coaching staff) knew that he'd be a perfect player in this specific system. They basically stole him and he's earned a bit of a payday at this point, which he played for these past three seasons.

Who is going to give you what Smith does in this system that's on the free agent market?

[Saccopoo]

Show me where/when Roches flashed at anything. Really, the same with Williams, but atleast he played a few downs.

If you're going with those 2 flashed, then the CB from oregon state flashed just as much, throw him out there.

Fuck, I don't even know his name either.

Steve Nelson.

And he's a nickle. He isn't going to play the edge in Sutton's defense.

[O.city]

So if we lose Howard somehow this D is going to regress?

With Peters and Gaines instead of Flemming/Cooper?

No, I'm saying that line of thinking isn't really useful in regards to this conversation, theres just to many moving parts to know either way.

The pass rush/defense was fine in 2014 without Howard. It was also fine with Flemming at corner.

It just doesn't hold up.

[O.city]

Steve Nelson.

And he's a nickle. He isn't going to play the edge in Sutton's defense.

No, he's not.

Philip Gaines can.

[O.city]

Smith wanted out of Miami and he (and this coaching staff) knew that he'd be a perfect player in this specific system. They basically stole him and he's earned a bit of a payday at this point, which he played for these past three seasons.

Who is going to give you what Smith does in this system that's on the free agent market?

Are you going to give Sean SMith a deal that runs utnil he's 33?

Again, I don't know. The front office found him, why can't they find another?

[RunKC]

DeVito played 1/3 of the snaps Howard did and got 3 sacks compared to Howard's 5.5. It was DeVito's best pass rushing stats of his career.

And I completely disagree about Dane's post about Smith's absence. We didn't struggle against Hoyer bc as we saw the guy is horrific. He's a Matt Cassel type QB.
We lost the Denver game at the end because of Smith's absence. Over and over and over again Manning kept completing pass after pass on Fleming including the TD.
GB completely embarrassed Fleming and Cooper. They specifically targeted them and took advantage.

Look at what lost us the playoff game? Did Jaye Howard even play? No pressure up front at all.
Our CB's were so depleted that we had multiple safeties playing man coverage in the slot. Losing Smith would only add to that huge problem.

IF we lose Smith we would need a new starter AND depth, which is something we have struggled with literally every single year of this regime.

[O.city]

DeVito played 1/3 of the snaps Howard did and got 3 sacks compared to Howard's 5.5. It was DeVito's best pass rushing stats of his career.

And I completely disagree about Dane's post about Smith's absence. We didn't struggle against Hoyer bc as we saw the guy is horrific. He's a Matt Cassel type QB.
We lost the Denver game at the end because of Smith's absence. Over and over and over again Manning kept completing pass after pass on Fleming including the TD.
GB completely embarrassed Fleming and Cooper. They specifically targeted them and took advantage.

Look at what lost us the playoff game? Did Jaye Howard even play? No pressure up front at all.
Our CB's were so depleted that we had multiple safeties playing man coverage in the slot. Losing Smith would only add to that huge problem.

IF we lose Smith we would need a new starter AND depth, which is something we have struggled with literally every single year of this regime.

Context matters.

How many of Devito's sacks were legit, how many pressures, etc.

[Saccopoo]

No, I'm saying that line of thinking isn't really useful in regards to this conversation, theres just to many moving parts to know either way.

The pass rush/defense was fine in 2014 without Howard. It was also fine with Flemming at corner.

It just doesn't hold up.

WTF?

Fleming was fucking raped on a weekly basis this past season. I've never seen such a beating as that guy took on the corner. It was fucking horrible.

[O.city]

If we're going to have Flemming level players replacing Smith, sure, sign him.

But I'd imagine everyone is going off the assumption taht they're going to upgrade the corner spot this offseason.

[O.city]

WTF?

Fleming was ****ing raped on a weekly basis this past season. I've never seen such a beating as that guy took on the corner. It was ****ing horrible.

In 2014?

And yeah, I agree, in 2015, completely different.

The NFL is such a year to year league, these arguments become very difficult to go back 2 years. Hence, my point.

[staylor26]

If we're going to have Flemming level players replacing Smith, sure, sign him.

But I'd imagine everyone is going off the assumption taht they're going to upgrade the corner spot this offseason.

Just like everyone is assuming that in arguably the greatest DL class ever, Dorsey can find a guy that'll have an impact.

[O.city]

Just like everyone is assuming that in arguably the greatest DL class ever, Dorsey can find a guy that'll have an impact.

You think a rookie DL is going to come in have what kind of an impact?

And greatest DL class ever is a big hyperbolic, no?

[Saccopoo]

Are you going to give Sean SMith a deal that runs utnil he's 33?

Again, I don't know. The front office found him, why can't they find another?

Here's your list:

Prince Amukamara, New York Giants
Johnson Bademosi, Cleveland Browns
Alan Ball, Chicago Bears
E.J. Biggers, Philadelphia Eagles
Will Blackmon, Washington Redskins
Antwon Blake, Pittsburgh Steelers
Ron Brooks, Buffalo Bills
Tarell Brown, New England Patriots
Crezdon Butler, Detroit Lions
Nolan Carroll, Philadelphia Eagles
Morris Claiborne, Dallas Cowboys
Marcus Cooper, Kansas City Chiefs
Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets
Nate Ebner, New England Patriots
Cortland Finnegan, Carolina Panthers
Jamell Fleming, Kansas City Chiefs
William Gay, Pittsburgh Steelers
Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
Brandon Harris, Tennessee Titans
Casey Hayward, Green Bay Packers
Jayron Hosley, New York Giants
Charles James, Houston Texans
Janoris Jenkins, Los Angeles Rams
Mike Jenkins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals
Jeremy Lane, Seattle Seahawks
Trumaine McBride, New York Giants
Leodis McKelvin, Buffalo Bills
Sherrick McManis, Chicago Bears
Sterling Moore, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Terence Newman, Minnesota Vikings
Chris Owens, New Orleans Saints
Tracy Porter, Chicago Bears
Jerraud Powers, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Robinson, Minnesota Vikings
Patrick Robinson, San Diego Chargers
Coty Sensabaugh, Tennessee Titans
Marcus Sherels, Minnesota Vikings
Sean Smith, Kansas City Chiefs
Josh Thomas, Dallas Cowboys
Charles Tillman, Carolina Panthers
Greg Toler, Indianapolis Colts
Cassius Vaughn, San Diego Chargers
Darrin Walls, New York Jets
Corey White, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Wilson, Detroit Lions
Kyle Wilson, New Orleans Saints
Shareece Wright, Baltimore Ravens

Who on that list is another Sean Smith, other than Sean Smith?

[O.city]

Here's your list:

Prince Amukamara, New York Giants
Johnson Bademosi, Cleveland Browns
Alan Ball, Chicago Bears
E.J. Biggers, Philadelphia Eagles
Will Blackmon, Washington Redskins
Antwon Blake, Pittsburgh Steelers
Ron Brooks, Buffalo Bills
Tarell Brown, New England Patriots
Crezdon Butler, Detroit Lions
Nolan Carroll, Philadelphia Eagles
Morris Claiborne, Dallas Cowboys
Marcus Cooper, Kansas City Chiefs
Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets
Nate Ebner, New England Patriots
Cortland Finnegan, Carolina Panthers
Jamell Fleming, Kansas City Chiefs
William Gay, Pittsburgh Steelers
Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
Brandon Harris, Tennessee Titans
Casey Hayward, Green Bay Packers
Jayron Hosley, New York Giants
Charles James, Houston Texans
Janoris Jenkins, Los Angeles Rams
Mike Jenkins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals
Jeremy Lane, Seattle Seahawks
Trumaine McBride, New York Giants
Leodis McKelvin, Buffalo Bills
Sherrick McManis, Chicago Bears
Sterling Moore, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Terence Newman, Minnesota Vikings
Chris Owens, New Orleans Saints
Tracy Porter, Chicago Bears
Jerraud Powers, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Robinson, Minnesota Vikings
Patrick Robinson, San Diego Chargers
Coty Sensabaugh, Tennessee Titans
Marcus Sherels, Minnesota Vikings
Sean Smith, Kansas City Chiefs
Josh Thomas, Dallas Cowboys
Charles Tillman, Carolina Panthers
Greg Toler, Indianapolis Colts
Cassius Vaughn, San Diego Chargers
Darrin Walls, New York Jets
Corey White, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Wilson, Detroit Lions
Kyle Wilson, New Orleans Saints
Shareece Wright, Baltimore Ravens

Who on that list is another Sean Smith, other than Sean Smith?


Are you going to go by measurables here, no one else is 6"3 I doubt.

But as everyone else seems to think, i think Lane could come in and give you atleast 80% of what Smith can right away, for cheaper.

[Saccopoo]

You think a rookie DL is going to come in have what kind of an impact?

And greatest DL class ever is a big hyperbolic, no?

Not likely, but why can't Williams or Roches have the same impact that Howard had?

They are identical in size and athletic ability. (Which is really kinda freaky athletic ability for guys that size. Dorsey really goes after the freaks.)

After a year in the system for both, I don't see why one couldn't expect the same type of advancement in their games that we saw with Howard this past season.

[staylor26]

You think a rookie DL is going to come in have what kind of an impact?

And greatest DL class ever is a big hyperbolic, no?

Mayock is just one of many trusted talent evaluators that has made this claim. I think it's safe to say it as at least one of the best, if not the best.

Just like it was pretty obvious the WR classes in '14 and '15 were among the best ever.

And I think Dorsey can draft a guy like Butler that can come in and give us a few sacks as a situational rusher. That's all we really need.

Like I said DeVito and Williams can get it done against the run.

[ModSocks]

Here's your list:

Prince Amukamara, New York Giants
Johnson Bademosi, Cleveland Browns
Alan Ball, Chicago Bears
E.J. Biggers, Philadelphia Eagles
Will Blackmon, Washington Redskins
Antwon Blake, Pittsburgh Steelers
Ron Brooks, Buffalo Bills
Tarell Brown, New England Patriots
Crezdon Butler, Detroit Lions
Nolan Carroll, Philadelphia Eagles
Morris Claiborne, Dallas Cowboys
Marcus Cooper, Kansas City Chiefs
Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets
Nate Ebner, New England Patriots
Cortland Finnegan, Carolina Panthers
Jamell Fleming, Kansas City Chiefs
William Gay, Pittsburgh Steelers
Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
Brandon Harris, Tennessee Titans
Casey Hayward, Green Bay Packers
Jayron Hosley, New York Giants
Charles James, Houston Texans
Janoris Jenkins, Los Angeles Rams
Mike Jenkins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals
Jeremy Lane, Seattle Seahawks
Trumaine McBride, New York Giants
Leodis McKelvin, Buffalo Bills
Sherrick McManis, Chicago Bears
Sterling Moore, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Terence Newman, Minnesota Vikings
Chris Owens, New Orleans Saints
Tracy Porter, Chicago Bears
Jerraud Powers, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Robinson, Minnesota Vikings
Patrick Robinson, San Diego Chargers
Coty Sensabaugh, Tennessee Titans
Marcus Sherels, Minnesota Vikings
Sean Smith, Kansas City Chiefs
Josh Thomas, Dallas Cowboys
Charles Tillman, Carolina Panthers
Greg Toler, Indianapolis Colts
Cassius Vaughn, San Diego Chargers
Darrin Walls, New York Jets
Corey White, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Wilson, Detroit Lions
Kyle Wilson, New Orleans Saints
Shareece Wright, Baltimore Ravens

Who on that list is another Sean Smith, other than Sean Smith?

Who says we need another Sean Smith? Is Marcus Peters another Sean Smith? Nelson? Gaines? Don't pigeon hole yourself into believing that the Chiefs only want 6'+ Corners.

Also, Brandon Carr is rumored to be cut as well.

[O.city]

Amukamara is another buy low type guy potentially.


Or trade Kelce to the Vikes for whats his face, would probably do.

[ModSocks]

Just like it was pretty obvious the WR classes in '14 and '15 were among the best ever.

And how many WR's did Dorsey draft during those two draft classes?

[O.city]

Not likely, but why can't Williams or Roches have the same impact that Howard had?

They are identical in size and athletic ability. (Which is really kinda freaky athletic ability for guys that size. Dorsey really goes after the freaks.)

After a year in the system for both, I don't see why one couldn't expect the same type of advancement in their games that we saw with Howard this past season.

Ok, roches played in 5 games and had 4 tackles, combined. Preseason, regular season, everything.

I understand for a DL stats aren't everything, but show me where he flashed with these abilities.

Similar for Williams. 9 tackles in 5 games.

Again, maybe they are of similar size and stature. But as we all know, especially for DLman, it's not just size and stature.

So no, I don't expect those two to progress from that, to 55 tackles and 5.5 sacks and a force fumble in a year.

[RunKC]

I do think that Dorsey drafted Gaines with the thought of him starting after some experience, but that's out the window with a torn ACL at this point as far as 2016 goes.

Our CB depth has really killed us every year of this regime. Dunta Robinson sucked, then Chris Owens sucked and then Jamel Fleming/Marcus Cooper sucked. It's to the point where I would spend money on someone like Brandon Boykin (still cheap) and have him as a reserve option.

This team is ready to win NOW, and Sean Smith is a guy who needs to be here to achieve that.

If forced to choose, I'm not throwing the bank at a one year wonder who was playing for a contract. I'm throwing it at a proven CB, signing Boykin and DeVito on the cheap while drafting Vernon ****ing Butler in round 1.

[O.city]

I've been wrong before, many times actually. Unbeleivable, yes.

But a team like the Chiefs, where they currently sit and hope to be, I don't think you can go from Howard to those guys and expect them to get you there. As we've seen, you need horses to carry you in the playoffs.

If they don't keep 1 of the two, I'd be shocked and I'm starting to expect they'll have to draft to replace 1 early and hope the guy hits hard and early.

[BossChief]

You know what scares me a little?

A rookie DE with Dee Ford behind him.

That's a easy target for opposing OCs to go after in the run game.

[staylor26]

And how many WR's did Dorsey draft during those two draft classes?

You really think there's any way Dorsey doesn't draft a defensive lineman if we lose Howard?

[O.city]

I do think that Dorsey drafted Gaines with the thought of him starting after some experience, but that's out the window with a torn ACL at this point as far as 2016 goes.

Our CB depth has really killed us every year of this regime. Dunta Robinson sucked, then Chris Owens sucked and then Jamel Fleming/Marcus Cooper sucked. It's to the point where I would spend money on someone like Brandon Boykin (still cheap) and have him as a reserve option.

This team is ready to win NOW, and Sean Smith is a guy who needs to be here to achieve that.

If forced to choose, I'm not throwing the bank at a one year wonder who was playing for a contract. I'm throwing it at a proven CB, signing Boykin and DeVito on the cheap while drafting Vernon ****ing Butler in round 1.

Given what we know about him, do we not think Sean Smith was playing for a contract as well?

He has been a great player here, but if what you guys say is true and he's that important, his DUI probably cost us HFA.

[O.city]

You really think there's any way Dorsey doesn't draft a defensive lineman if we lose Howard?

Do you think he won't if we lose Smith?

[staylor26]

Do you think he won't if we lose Smith?

I think he's taking one either way. I'm telling you this class is LOADED. There are going to be guys left in rounds 2-4 that have no business being there.

[O.city]

For me, it's all about age, position and upside.

I don't actually think they'll bring back either.

[ModSocks]

You really think there's any way Dorsey doesn't draft a defensive lineman if we lose Howard?

I think Dorsey has shown us his philosophy, and his philosophy is to take the BPA. If it's DL, then fine. But i don't think he'll actively seek out Howard's replacement via the draft.

If it happens it happens, but he's not going to to force the issue.

[ModSocks]

I think he's taking one either way. I'm telling you this class is LOADED. There are going to be guys left in rounds 2-4 that have no business being there.

So was the WR class....and the Chiefs needed a WR way more than they need a Jaye Howard replacement.

[O.city]

It would be hated here, but if they wanna push it this year, why not extend Alex Smith's deal, sign BOTH, and a RT and go from there?

[Saccopoo]

Are you going to go by measurables here, no one else is 6"3 I doubt.

But as everyone else seems to think, i think Lane could come in and give you atleast 80% of what Smith can right away, for cheaper.

Smith not only has freakish length, his feet/footwork is absolutely terrific.

I'm not sure that his on-field potential is available in free agency. You'd really have to look for it in a draft versus hope something pops up in free agency.

Pest gives me shit, but to find a guy like Smith in today's league, where a premium is placed on the CB and there are more teams running a 34 press man, you are going to have to trade for it. A guy like Xavier Rhodes would be ideal IMO. Might be able to get him for something that they got Smith for initially as he had a little bit of a down year this past season, but closed strong.

But Dorsey seems to be doing just fine finding the right guys for the system. (Struggled at ILB and WR, but otherwise has looked great.)

[O.city]

Smith not only has freakish length, his feet/footwork is absolutely terrific.

I'm not sure that his on-field potential is available in free agency. You'd really have to look for it in a draft versus hope something pops up in free agency.

Pest gives me shit, but to find a guy like Smith in today's league, where a premium is placed on the CB and there are more teams running a 34 press man, you are going to have to trade for it. A guy like Xavier Rhodes would be ideal IMO. Might be able to get him for something that they got Smith for initially as he had a little bit of a down year this past season, but closed strong.

But Dorsey seems to be doing just fine finding the right guys for the system. (Struggled at ILB and WR, but otherwise has looked great.)

3-4 doesn't really have anything to do with press though, in terms of scheme, but other wise I don't disagree.

And Smith doesn't have good feet or footwork. At all. Thats where his length comes in.

The guy gets turned around and out of position so much but that length is so much of an advantage it doesn't matter.

Thats what worries me about a long term deal, once he loses a touch of speed, he's done.

[Saccopoo]

Who says we need another Sean Smith? Is Marcus Peters another Sean Smith? Nelson? Gaines? Don't pigeon hole yourself into believing that the Chiefs only want 6'+ Corners.

Also, Brandon Carr is rumored to be cut as well.

Carr sucked when he was here originally.

One of the most overrated CP lovefests on a player I've ever seen.

[O.city]

It's just too early to tell.

Good discussion though guys.

[staylor26]

So was the WR class....and the Chiefs needed a WR way more than they need a Jaye Howard replacement.

I'll bet you anything you want that Dorsey goes DL in the first 4 rounds.

[O.city]

Yeah, Carr sucks.

Amakamura may be just a name at this point, but he'd be a buy low guy that would peak my interest.

Claiborne had off the chart measurables, went to the circus that is Dallas.

Those are the types of guys we need to bring in and try a little reclamation type project, maybe not as the starter, but depth wise too.

[O.city]

Detox, the Chiefs did draft a wr last year in round 3.

[Saccopoo]

It would be hated here, but if they wanna push it this year, why not extend Alex Smith's deal, sign BOTH, and a RT and go from there?

If they are going to spend 8 mill on a dude, I'd much rather have it be Mitchell Schwartz than Jaye Howard.

[staylor26]

Detox, the Chiefs did draft a wr last year in round 3.

Lol I completely forgot that Conley was one of those guys in last years class. I rest my case.

[Saccopoo]

Lol I completely forgot that Conley was one of those guys in last years class.

God, I hope that kid gets it.

His athletic ability is the stuff of legends. If he figures out how to run a route off of coverage, it would help this team immensely.

[O.city]

If they are going to spend 8 mill on a dude, I'd much rather have it be Mitchell Schwartz than Jaye Howard.

I don't understand the howard disdain, seems like the ideal soldier and what you want in a DL.

Yeah, the penalties are what they are, but honestly, this defense needs a little of that if they hope to get to Denver level (they can't, but they should try being more physical).

He came into a system that fits him to a T and he excelled in it. Sounds just like Sean Smith, who also was prone to penalties IIRC, last year and previously.

If they can replace Howard with a draft pick or in house, go for it. I don't think they can immediately and with the Chiefs window wide open, I don't know that it's smart to try.

I think Howard is on the upswing and will only improve more so, but opinions are like whatever I guess.

[staylor26]

God, I hope that kid gets it.

His athletic ability is the stuff of legends. If he figures out how to run a route off of coverage, it would help this team immensely.

I have no doubt he's going to be a solid #2. That's why I'm not worried about that spot, and I'm pretty sure Dorsey isn't either.

[O.city]

Lol I completely forgot that Conley was one of those guys in last years class. I rest my case.

I think Conley was a little bit of a desperation pick a year after we needed a WR badly.

[staylor26]

I think Conley was a little bit of a desperation pick a year after we needed a WR badly.

No. Dorsey doesn't work that way. Conley is the only guy Dorsey has traded up to get. No way he panicked and traded up for a guy he doesn't love.

[O.city]

Problem with letting Howard walk is that if in fact you do draft a guy, you're going to rely on a rookie, two 2nd year late round picks with no experience and a 34 year old run stopper.

Bailey or Poe goes down, you're in a world of unknowns.

[O.city]

No. Dorsey doesn't work that way. Conley is the only guy Dorsey has traded up to get. No way he panicked and traded up for a guy he doesn't love.

I think trading up shows that they were desperate to get a WR.

One that doesn't really fit the model of WR's they've looked for since they've been here.

Who knows though.

[O.city]

I haven't looked at contracts or really any of this as I've had 2 sick kids for 2 fucking weeks and have wanted to run into traffic, but if Howard wants 8 mil, is that really a bad deal considerign how it would be structured.

[RunKC]

I feel great about Conley's development bc of Jeremy Maclin. Maclin is gonna help him run better routes.

Conley is gonna be a nice #2 WR and showed flashes of it as a rookie. I can feel it.

[Saccopoo]

I think Conley was a little bit of a desperation pick a year after we needed a WR badly.

I think it's like anything else with Dorsey...he puts all his/scouts data into the Decision Lens machine and out pops the list.

Dude wants certain things in each player at each position and bases his board on that and doesn't come off it for hype or whatever.

It's why I've got high hopes about Paxton Lynch in this draft. Chiefs have scouted every game and have met with him at the Combine. He checks the Dorsey boxes. If he falls, I wouldn't be shocked if he was the pick, despite the more immediate needs at ILB/ROT/CB/S.

[O.city]

I think it's like anything else with Dorsey...he puts all his/scouts data into the Decision Lens machine and out pops the list.

Dude wants certain things in each player at each position and bases his board on that and doesn't come off it for hype or whatever.

It's why I've got high hopes about Paxton Lynch in this draft. Chiefs have scouted every game and have met with him at the Combine. He checks the Dorsey boxes. If he falls, I wouldn't be shocked if he was the pick, despite the more immediate needs at ILB/ROT/CB/S.

I could see it.

[O.city]

I feel great about Conley's development bc of Jeremy Maclin. Maclin is gonna help him run better routes.

Conley is gonna be a nice #2 WR and showed flashes of it as a rookie. I can feel it.

Is Maclin going to help Conley with his stiff hips?

[staylor26]

I think trading up shows that they were desperate to get a WR.

One that doesn't really fit the model of WR's they've looked for since they've been here.

Who knows though.

You're 100% wrong here.

Conley clearly was a guy that Dorsey and Reid fell in love with because of his measurables and intelligence.

There's a reason Farmer applauded the pick and basically said he would've taken him had we not.

I don't know why you're so down on Conley. He made plays in both games Maclin was out (2 TD's), he's big, he's fast, and he has all the intangibles.

[Saccopoo]

Is Maclin going to help Conley with his stiff hips?

No, but drafting Hunter Sharp would.

[O.city]

Conley needs to be their deep threat. Let that big son of a bitch run. Thats why I'm feeling Fuller is a little overkill.

Give me Sheppard or Braxton Miller.

I think Miller would be a badass in the DAT role.

[Mr. Laz]

Howard is a young stud at a high value position, we have replacement options
Sean Smith is a aging stud guy at a high value position, we have no replacement
Eric Berry is a stud, we have replacement options


If we only can keep 2 out of the 3, Berry is the guy who is probably the odd man out.

[O.city]

You're 100% wrong here.

Conley clearly was a guy that Dorsey and Reid fell in love with because of his measurables and intelligence.

There's a reason Farmer applauded the pick and basically said he would've taken him had we not.

I don't know why you're so down on Conley. He made plays in both games Maclin was out (2 TD's), he's big, he's fast, and he has all the intangibles.

Farmer as in Ray Farmer? Thats a positive thing?

I have no doubt they liked him. But trading up for a workout warrior with not alot of on field production and or polish is risky.

[O.city]

Howard is a young stud at a high value position, we have replacement options
Sean Smith is a aging stud guy at a high value position, we have no replacement
Eric Berry is a stud, we have replacement options


If we only can keep 2 out of the 3, Berry is the guy who is probably the odd man out.

Who's gonna replace Berry?

[O.city]

No, but drafting Hunter Sharp would.

I'd rather have Shepard.

[staylor26]

Farmer as in Ray Farmer? Thats a positive thing?

I have no doubt they liked him. But trading up for a workout warrior with not alot of on field production and or polish is risky.

He was his teams #1 WR in terms of production. So let's not pretend he wasn't productive at all.

As for Farmer, my point is we wanted Conley bad and knew we had to trade up to get him.

Dorsey didn't just say lets trade up for a WR that we don't really like and isn't a fit. Nothing in his past drafts indicates he would do this.

If we were that desperate for a WR we would've just taken one in '14 or in the first 2 rounds in '15.

[O.city]

He was his teams #1 WR in terms of production. So let's not pretend he wasn't productive at all.

As for Farmer, my point is we wanted Conley bad and knew we had to trade up to get him.

His production didn't match his ability is waht I'm saying.

Thats not necessarily on him though.

[Saccopoo]

I'd rather have Shepard.

About the same guy IMO. Sharp plays with a real attitude and fierceness. Haven't seen OU play this year but once this past season. I'll have to check out Shepard a bit more. I think Sharp is going to be a little cheaper in the draft and I'm not sure that the drop off is even there from an on-field perspective. They both give you about the same thing.

[RunKC]

Well he had 41 targets in 16 games and went 7 games without a target and still had 2 TD's and 241 yards. Compare that to Wilson who was our #2 WR and had 72 targets.

I think Coneley is capable of being a 5 TD 500 yard guy next year.

[staylor26]

Well he had 41 targets in 16 games and went 7 games without a target and still had 2 TD's and 241 yards. Compare that to Wilson who was our #2 WR and had 72 targets.

I think Coneley is capable of being a 5 TD 500 yard guy next year.

And in this offense, with Kelce and Charles as receiving weapons that's all we really need form our "#2".

[ModSocks]

Detox, the Chiefs did draft a wr last year in round 3.

Obviously. But my point being that in two WR rich draft classes, they came away with one guy...a 3rd rounder. They stayed true to their board rather than say "oooh we need this and that" even though WR was regarded as one of their biggest needs.

I don't think they'll treat DL any different. Im not saying they won't draft one, im saying they wont change their philosophy just to replace Jaye Howard.

If one is there and they believe he's the BPA they'll do it, but i wouldn't be shocked at all if they walk away with players that we dont consider positions of need.

[The Franchise]

Obviously. But my point being that in two WR rich draft classes, they came away with one guy...a 3rd rounder. They stayed true to their board rather than say "oooh we need this and that" even though WR was regarded as one of their biggest needs.

I don't think they'll treat DL any different. Im not saying they won't draft one, im saying they wont change their philosophy just to replace Jaye Howard.

If one is there and they believe he's the BPA they'll do it, but i wouldn't be shocked at all if they walk away with players that we dont consider positions of need.

Yep.

[O.city]

And in this offense, with Kelce and Charles as receiving weapons that's all we really need form our "#2".

They need that from someone.

They've gotta get more explosive on offense for sure.

[O.city]

Obviously. But my point being that in two WR rich draft classes, they came away with one guy...a 3rd rounder. They stayed true to their board rather than say "oooh we need this and that" even though WR was regarded as one of their biggest needs.

I don't think they'll treat DL any different. Im not saying they won't draft one, im saying they wont change their philosophy just to replace Jaye Howard.

If one is there and they believe he's the BPA they'll do it, but i wouldn't be shocked at all if they walk away with players that we dont consider positions of need.


Agree

[staylor26]

Obviously. But my point being that in two WR rich draft classes, they came away with one guy...a 3rd rounder. They stayed true to their board rather than say "oooh we need this and that" even though WR was regarded as one of their biggest needs.

I don't think they'll treat DL any different. Im not saying they won't draft one, im saying they wont change their philosophy just to replace Jaye Howard.

If one is there and they believe he's the BPA they'll do it, but i wouldn't be shocked at all if they walk away with players that we dont consider positions of need.

I never said he's going to go DL bc of need or anything like that. Also though, I don't think Dorsey values WR's in round 1 like he does DL.

Bottom line is, theres a good chance DL is the BPA at all 3 of our first picks.

[O.city]

I don't think Dorsey values WR's in round 1 like he does DL.

Bottom line is though, theres a good chance DL is the BPA at all 3 of our first picks.

What makes you say that?

[RunKC]

Obviously. But my point being that in two WR rich draft classes, they came away with one guy...a 3rd rounder. They stayed true to their board rather than say "oooh we need this and that" even though WR was regarded as one of their biggest needs.

I don't think they'll treat DL any different. Im not saying they won't draft one, im saying they wont change their philosophy just to replace Jaye Howard.

If one is there and they believe he's the BPA they'll do it, but i wouldn't be shocked at all if they walk away with players that we dont consider positions of need.

Good post. I was surprised when they drafted Dee Ford.
It wouldn't shock me if they stick to their board and draft someone we aren't expecting like Karl Joseph

[Saccopoo]

I don't think Dorsey values WR's in round 1 like he does DL.

Bottom line is though, theres a good chance DL is the BPA at all 3 of our first picks.

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/k5CnZnIN7v66usjYuCd-J1QPWso=/0x101:4489x3094/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48952559/usa-today-9142542.0.jpg

As long as he shaves that fucking horrible looking goatee thing.

[staylor26]

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/k5CnZnIN7v66usjYuCd-J1QPWso=/0x101:4489x3094/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48952559/usa-today-9142542.0.jpg

I'm all for it and in total agreement that he could be BPA on Dorsey's board at 28. I should've said at some point with those three picks, DL will end up being BPA.

[RunKC]

What makes you say that?

It's really hard to find large men that can move people and have good footwork, body measurables and footwork.

Not many of those guys out there. There are always good athletes at at other positions like WR

[staylor26]

What makes you say that?

Going back to the Packers, it just seems their philosophy is WR in rounds 2-4.

Cobb, Nelson, Adams, Conley for example.

[Saccopoo]

It's really hard to find large men that can move people and have good footwork, body measurables and footwork.

Not many of those guys out there. There are always good athletes at at other positions like WR

NFL Combine results:

Nick Williams:
6'4"
309 lbs.
34.5" Arms
10.25" Hands
Bench: 33 Reps
40: 4.94 seconds
Vertical: 33"
Broad: 111"
3 Cone: 7.55 seconds

Rakeem Nunez-Roches
6'2"
307 lbs.
32.5" Arms
10.2" Hands
Bench: 28 Reps
40: 5.02 seconds
Vertical: 34"
Broad: 114"
3 Cone: 7.67 seconds

[staylor26]

NFL Combine results:

Nick Williams:
6'4"
309 lbs.
34.5" Arms
10.25" Hands
Bench: 33 Reps
40: 4.94 seconds
Vertical: 33"
Broad: 111"
3 Cone: 7.55 seconds

Rakeem Nunez-Roches
6'2"
307 lbs.
32.5" Arms
10.2" Hands
Bench: 28 Reps
40: 5.02 seconds
Vertical: 34"
Broad: 114"
3 Cone: 7.67 seconds

It's amazing how all of Dorsey's guys fit a certain profile. We're so lucky to have somebody with a legitimate plan/philosophy and not just some idiot that says "the right 53" type of bullshit and takes nickels and gadget players in round 2.

[staylor26]

I completely forgot about James Jones too (round 3 selection).

There's clearly something to this. I'm convinced WR is out of the picture at 28.

[Saccopoo]

It's amazing how all of Dorsey's guys fit a certain profile. We're so lucky to have somebody with a legitimate plan/philosophy and not just some idiot that says "the right 53" type of bullshit and takes nickels and gadget players in round 2.

I agree. I don't necessarily agree with his calculations on the ILB position, but he seems to have his shit together and the scouts seem to understand what he wants and what is looking for. He's done a nice job scouring even the smaller schools to find those guys who fits his parameters. (Williams from Samford and Nunez-Roches from Southern Miss.)

Doesn't seem to leave a stone unturned versus calling a father in-law and asking what he thinks.

Dorsey definitely puts a lot of scouting into it to go along with the science of metrics for each position.

[The Franchise]

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/k5CnZnIN7v66usjYuCd-J1QPWso=/0x101:4489x3094/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48952559/usa-today-9142542.0.jpg

As long as he shaves that fucking horrible looking goatee thing.

Don't build me up, Sacc. You'll just tear me down.

[Saccopoo]

Don't build me up, Sacc. You'll just tear me down.

I really do think that they pull the trigger on Lynch if he's there. They've already scouted him pretty hard, was one of the 12 teams to meet with him at the combine and he fits the QB profile (at least the Smith profile).

Lynch will need a couple of years of learning the game from an under center perspective, and the Chiefs are in an ideal spot to have him learn from a consummate pro and a guy willing to teach in Smith.

They don't have any real pressing needs, other than ROT (if Dorsey does his work in free agency) and I can't see anyone arguing that Lynch wouldn't be on a very short list for BPA at the 28 spot.

He's all over the pundit boards right now. Some have him as high as #7 while others have him dropping out of the first round altogether.

If he's there at 28, I think that there is a real chance.

[staylor26]

I agree. I don't necessarily agree with his calculations on the ILB position, but he seems to have his shit together and the scouts seem to understand what he wants and what is looking for. He's done a nice job scouring even the smaller schools to find those guys who fits his parameters. (Williams from Samford and Nunez-Roches from Southern Miss.)

Doesn't seem to leave a stone unturned versus calling a father in-law and asking what he thinks.

Dorsey definitely puts a lot of scouting into it to go along with the science of metrics for each position.

ILB is definitely the position he's struggled most with, but we have to see what March has because he might've already found a good one.

I'm curious what you think about what I was getting at with his philosophy on WR's in the 1st. Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Adams, and Conley. There's clearly a pattern.

[RunKC]

NFL Combine results:

Nick Williams:
6'4"
309 lbs.
34.5" Arms
10.25" Hands
Bench: 33 Reps
40: 4.94 seconds
Vertical: 33"
Broad: 111"
3 Cone: 7.55 seconds

Rakeem Nunez-Roches
6'2"
307 lbs.
32.5" Arms
10.2" Hands
Bench: 28 Reps
40: 5.02 seconds
Vertical: 34"
Broad: 114"
3 Cone: 7.67 seconds

How many Dontari Poe's are in the NFL? There are very few guys like him.
Good OT's and interior lineman are hard to find.

Good OT's specifically are becoming harder to find bc of the spread offense bullshit in college, and in today it's almost a necessity to find 2 strong, athletic tackles with good measurables to have success.
Just look at New England. Most of their OL last year was built of mid round guys and it killed them.

[Saccopoo]

ILB is definitely the position he's struggled most with, but we have to see what March has because he might've already found a good one.

I'm curious what you think about what I was getting at with his philosophy on WR's in the 1st. Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Adams, and Conley. There's clearly a pattern.

Totally agree. I think he feels that he can find the guy who fits his parameters at the WR position in about the third versus spending a first on the position.

The Decision Lens system that Dorsey uses is a really interesting deal. It's used by businesses, cities, etc. to extract the most comprehensive solution to a particular question/situation/problem. I imagine that it requires a shit ton of work putting all the variables in every year for available free agents and potential draftees, but Dorsey obviously has the parameters he wants because he usually picks that same type of dude for each position. (And I'm sure that he and the DL people tweak it each year as he learns more about what works in the system, etc.)

There might even be a potential round cutoff applied. Who knows? But it seems that he's been a third round WR type of guy and then grab the best of the bunch as UDFAs. I wouldn't be surprised to see another one this year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Just look at New England. Most of their OL last year was built of mid round guys and it killed them.

They went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Championship because Belichick refused to kick FG's in the Red Zone on three different occasions.

Most of the Chiefs offensive line last season was mid-round to late round players and they went 12-6.

[RunKC]

They went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Championship because Belichick refused to kick FG's in the Red Zone on three different occasions.

Most of the Chiefs offensive line last season was mid-round to late round players and they went 12-6.

And Tom Brady got killed. The best coach, best QB and (maybe) the best TE ever barely overcame that but still lost. How many teams have Brady, Hoodie and Gronk?
Eric Fisher did a very good job last year and he was the first overall pick, but as I mentioned before, I specifically pointed out OT's. I agree 100% that interior OL can be found later.

There is a shortage of quality OT's in the NFL nowadays and last year showed that.

[staylor26]

They went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Championship because Belichick refused to kick FG's in the Red Zone on three different occasions.

Most of the Chiefs offensive line last season was mid-round to late round players and they went 12-6.

In today's NFL where your RT is going up against guys like Miller, Watt, and Mack, RT is more important than it ever was. You don't agree?

[OctoberFart]

The way KC is going to fuck around this guy will end up in Denver to replace Jackson.

[DaneMcCloud]

In today's NFL where your RT is going up against guys like Miller, Watt, and Mack, RT is more important than it ever was. You don't agree?

I agree that the right tackle position is important but I don't agree that it needs to be filled with a first round draft choice.

[staylor26]

I agree that the right tackle position is important but I don't agree that it needs to be filled with a first round draft choice.

I don't think it HAS to be, but there's nothing wrong with taking one in the 20-32 range either.

[ModSocks]

The way KC is going to **** around this guy will end up in Denver to replace Jackson.

That's a good idea tbh. There's a number of teams he could go to though. Chargers could use him as well....

[ModSocks]

I agree that the right tackle position is important but I don't agree that it needs to be filled with a first round draft choice.

I wouldn't be mad if that's the direction they want. That's the first time i've been able to say that in many, many years.

[Saccopoo]

How many Dontari Poe's are in the NFL? There are very few guys like him.
Good OT's and interior lineman are hard to find.

Good OT's specifically are becoming harder to find bc of the spread offense bullshit in college, and in today it's almost a necessity to find 2 strong, athletic tackles with good measurables to have success.
Just look at New England. Most of their OL last year was built of mid round guys and it killed them.

The two guys I think that fit what Dorsey likes are Joe Haeg of NDS and Kyle Murphy of Stanford. Both are coming out of college programs that run pro style sets and both have extensive experience on both sides of the offensive line.

[SAUTO]

Howard is a young stud at a high value position, we have replacement options
Sean Smith is a aging stud guy at a high value position, we have no replacement
Eric Berry is a stud, we have replacement options


If we only can keep 2 out of the 3, Berry is the guy who is probably the odd man out. huh?

Berry was franchise tagged, he's going no where.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think it HAS to be, but there's nothing wrong with taking one in the 20-32 range either.

When there's a need at CB, WR and DT/DE, I think you choose the most talented out of those groups as opposed to a right tackle.

Scheme can somewhat negate a less than stellar right tackle but no amount of scheming will cover the fact that you need a good corner and WR and in this defense, good D Line play.

[staylor26]

When there's a need at CB, WR and DT/DE, I think you choose the most talented out of those groups as opposed to a right tackle.

I agree unless somebody like Conklin or Decker falls to us. You have to take one of those guys if they do. That solves the RT spot and also gives us insurance in case Fisher gets hurt or doesn't sign a long term deal.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree unless somebody like Conklin or Decker falls to us. You have to take one of those guys if they do. That solves the RT spot and also gives us insurance in case Fisher gets hurt or doesn't sign a long term deal.

Disagree.

You can find developmental players in the 3rd-6th rounds. Hell, Fulton and LDT are proof, as is Jah Reid or even Donald Stephenson (who should be a bad ass but isn't motivated).

But if there's a CB, WR or DT/DE that can start Day One and contribute immediately, you take him over a right tackle.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Blah blah blahhhhhhh

[Saccopoo]

That's a good idea tbh. There's a number of teams he could go to though. Chargers could use him as well....

Jacksonville has a shit ton of cap space and they definitely need an interior defensive lineman that can push the pocket.

In addition, Gus Bradley was the defensive coordinator for the Seahawks when Howard got picked by them in the fourth round of the 2012 draft.

I'd be surprised if he didn't end up there.

[RunKC]

The two guys I think that fit what Dorsey likes are Joe Haeg of NDS and Kyle Murphy of Stanford. Both are coming out of college programs that run pro style sets and both have extensive experience on both sides of the offensive line.

Joe Haeg is Eric Fisher. We don't have time for an Eric Fisher in the first 3 rounds right now.
I like him him a lot, but I just don't think he's strong enough at at this point and his experience at a small school will force him to take time to adjust

[Squalor2]

still have a transition tag to use. dont see it on howard.

[Squalor2]

The two guys I think that fit what Dorsey likes are Joe Haeg of NDS and Kyle Murphy of Stanford. Both are coming out of college programs that run pro style sets and both have extensive experience on both sides of the offensive line.


i like murphy better. if he is available. as a rg.

[DaneMcCloud]

i like murphy better. if he is available. as a rg.

Yeah, all the Chiefs need is a right guard because Fulton, Morse, Reid and LDT aren't enough.

:rolleyes:

Fucktard.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Yeah, all the Chiefs need is a right guard because Fulton, Morse, Reid and LDT aren't enough.

:rolleyes:

Fucktard.

Those dipshits never learn