Our (not so good) cap situation for 2017

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Alright, so it's another long Sunday without football, and while I don't want to look past this year too much, have any of you noticed our current amount of cap space for next offseason?

According to Over The Cap, we are sitting with a shade under 6 million in available space for 2017. I'm not sure it's 100% accurate, but it's gotta be close.

This is without Eric Berry or Dontari Poe under contract, too. Now, we know it's an issue Dorsey has to address and he has shown in the past that he will, but how? What would you do? Here's the link to tinker with all of the different options of moves that can be made. http://overthecap.com/calculator/kansas-city-chiefs/

Personally, I think move number one is to get that Fisher cap number down with an extension. A lot of the other moves are going to depend on how certain guys fare this season, but one that stands out is Mauga's cap number. It'd be really nice to see March or Wilson take his job and make him expendable next offseason. Also, you have the Jamaal dilemma, who would instantly free up 7 million, or Colquitt who frees up over 4 million... hell, Tyler Bray even approaches 2 million.

What do you think Dorsey does to save the world this time? Discuss

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Cut Smith , Kelce , Charles, Maclin and Houston. Problem solved.

[keg in kc]

It most likely won't be an issue.

[kccrow]

Can likely shave 3 million off of Fisher with an extension. Charles counts 7 million, so I have my doubts he'll be here at that number. Colquitt at 4.9 million when he could save 4.1 million, we'll see about that. Tamba as a June 1 cut would save 1.2 million. Restructuring Smith is still out there.

There are spots the Chiefs can do some things.

Only real deal to get done is Poe. After that it would be players who show something this season, which could be Pughsley, Streater, Brown, and Massaquoi.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Only real deal to get done is Poe. After that it would be players who show something this season, which could be Pughsley, Streater, Brown, and Massaquoi.

Berry?

[O.city]

Jamal probably gone unless he takes a haircut or just has a crazy year and they renegotiate a deal

[kccrow]

Berry?

Oh yeah, forgot about him. Damnit. Don't go bringing more variables into the equation. :D

[kccrow]

Mauga saves 3 million. DJ saves 4.2 million. I'd have to imagine one of them is gone after this season, either DJ by retirement or Mauga gets cut for Wilson to step in.

[KCUnited]

I dread that we are approaching CAPHELL.

[kccrow]

I dread that we are approaching CAPHELL.

Dorsey will just keep churning the draft and letting guys walk.

[chiefzilla1501]

Can likely shave 3 million off of Fisher with an extension. Charles counts 7 million, so I have my doubts he'll be here at that number. Colquitt at 4.9 million when he could save 4.1 million, we'll see about that. Tamba as a June 1 cut would save 1.2 million. Restructuring Smith is still out there.

There are spots the Chiefs can do some things.

Only real deal to get done is Poe. After that it would be players who show something this season, which could be Pughsley, Streater, Brown, and Massaquoi.

Well, also doesn't count Berry, who I imagine will get extended.

Mauga is replaceable. Parker if you're desperate. Jaye Howard if you're really desperate. As some have mentioned before... if Chris Jones pans out, I really wonder how much you're willing to pay Poe. Howard did an excellent job in Poe's absence and could be kept long-term for much cheaper.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Jamal probably gone unless he takes a haircut or just has a crazy year and they renegotiate a deal

A haircut? Lmao

[O.city]

Mauga saves 3 million. DJ saves 4.2 million. I'd have to imagine one of them is gone after this season, either DJ by retirement or Mauga gets cut for Wilson to step in.

I figure dj has 2 or 3 years left.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dorsey will just push contracts into 2018, in which the Chiefs have a projected $44 million in cap space.

Not to worry.

[Chief Roundup]

Hali is most likely gone. I know myself and others were kind of expecting that until the Houston injury threatened part of his season.

[DaneMcCloud]

Hali is most likely gone.

Almost gone?

The Chiefs just gave him a 3 year, $22 million dollar deal with $12 million in guarantees.

WTF?

[Chief Roundup]

Almost gone?

The Chiefs just gave him a 3 year, $22 million dollar deal with $12 million in guarantees.

WTF?

We can cut him after June 1 and get a $1.25M cap savings.

http://overthecap.com/player/tamba-hali/531/

[Deberg_1990]

Not concerned

[Titty Meat]

Let's focus on this season first

[pugsnotdrugs19]

We can cut him after June 1 and get a $1.25M cap savings.

http://overthecap.com/player/tamba-hali/531/

Why cut him though after one year? You wouldn't give him 3 years if that was the plan in mind.

[Chief Roundup]

Why cut him though after one year? You wouldn't give him 3 years if that was the plan in mind.

I don't think anybody wants to cut him but it might have to be a business move in the end.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

There are always ways around this. Watch the nfl much?

[RunKC]

Let's recap what has been said all offseason regarding this:

-The cap will again inflate in 2017 like it did this year. That's why teams went full retard in FA. I'd expect a $10m cap rise putting us at $16m (projected).
-Bray, Zombo and Mauga won't be back in 2017. That's about $4m alone.
-Colquitt and JC can be cut with zero damage and save about $11m in 2017. They will most likely be restructured to save $4-5m.
-As Dane said, contracts will be pushed into the 2018 cap pool. Poe and any FA we sign in 2017 will have small cap hits in 2017 just as Maclin, Schwartz and every other Dorsey contract.
-Tamba and DJ's contracts are basically 2 year deals with a 3rd year option. In year 3 we get at least $6m in cap savings for each of them.

Dorsey has a ton of picks in next years draft. He'll draft for replacements for guys like Reid, Howard, Zombo, etc like he always does.

We're fine.

[Chiefshrink]

It most likely won't be an issue.

This !

[Chiefshrink]

Let's recap what has been said all offseason regarding this:

-The cap will again inflate in 2017 like it did this year. That's why teams went full retard in FA. I'd expect a $10m cap rise putting us at $16m (projected).
-Bray, Zombo and Mauga won't be back in 2017. That's about $4m alone.
-Colquitt and JC can be cut with zero damage and save about $11m in 2017. They will most likely be restructured to save $4-5m.
-As Dane said, contracts will be pushed into the 2018 cap pool. Poe and any FA we sign in 2017 will have small cap hits in 2017 just as Maclin, Schwartz and every other Dorsey contract.
-Tamba and DJ's contracts are basically 2 year deals with a 3rd year option. In year 3 we get at least $6m in cap savings for each of them.

Dorsey has a ton of picks in next years draft. He'll draft for replacements for guys like Reid, Howard, Zombo, etc like he always does.

We're fine.

BINGO !!

[DaneMcCloud]

We can cut him after June 1 and get a $1.25M cap savings.

http://overthecap.com/player/tamba-hali/531/

With more than $7 million in dead money, which would be ridiculous.

And that's June 1, 2017.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think anybody wants to cut him but it might have to be a business move in the end.

It would be a terrible "business" move, with $7.3 million in dead money in 2017 alone.

The only way Hali doesn't come back is if he has a career ending injury.

[BleedingRed]

How much more do you think the CAP will increase?

[The Franchise]

A Josh Mauga cut saves us $3 million alone.

[BryanBusby]

They can keep the players they want to keep, but FA will be quiet on the incoming player front.

[jspchief]

The window is probably closing. Between age and contracts, the defense is likely to be on the decline. You can't reasonably expect to replace guys like DJ and Hali with late round draft picks, and it's hard to imagine a team being able to afford these large defense contracts year after year. Houston, Berry, and Poe could be big enough contracts on their own to hamstring the team.

The team had a really nice run on draft picks but unfortunately made very little hay when the sun was shining.

[DaneMcCloud]

They can keep the players they want to keep, but FA will be quiet on the incoming player front.

As it should be.

Draft, develop and re-sign your own.

[DaneMcCloud]

The window is probably closing. Between age and contracts, the defense is likely to be on the decline. You can't reasonably expect to replace guys like DJ and Hali with late round draft picks, and it's hard to imagine a team being able to afford these large defense contracts year after year. Houston, Berry, and Poe could be big enough contracts on their own to hamstring the team.

The team had a really nice run on draft picks but unfortunately made very little hay when the sun was shining.
Yeah, I fully disagree with this statement.

The Chiefs will have a shit ton of draft picks next year due to the Comp Picks, which can be traded in 2017. There's no reason why the Chiefs can't draft DJ or Hali's replacement in the first and second round of next year's draft, while addressing safety and other concerns in the third or by bundling up picks for another 2nd round choice.

Jones was drafted as a possible replacement for Poe and Dorsey said this past week that he wants Jones to push his way into the starting lineup this season.

[RunKC]

Jones was drafted as a possible replacement for Poe and Dorsey said this past week that he wants Jones to push his way into the starting lineup this season.

Woah I missed this. If Jones beats out one of the starters than he's having an outstanding rookie year.

Bailey, Howard and Poe are all studs. Would be crazy if this kid could beat one of them out.

[DaneMcCloud]

Woah I missed this. If Jones beats out one of the starters than he's having an outstanding rookie year.

Bailey, Howard and Poe are all studs. Would be crazy if this kid could beat one of them out.

It's in the PFT interview with Dorsey

[jspchief]

Yeah, I fully disagree with this statement.

The Chiefs will have a shit ton of draft picks next year due to the Comp Picks, which can be traded in 2017. There's no reason why the Chiefs can't draft DJ or Hali's replacement in the first and second round of next year's draft, while addressing safety and other concerns in the third or by bundling up picks for another 2nd round choice.

Jones was drafted as a possible replacement for Poe and Dorsey said this past week that he wants Jones to push his way into the starting lineup this season.
This defense was built on first round picks. The odds of maintaining this level of talent even continuing to use first round picks aren't good. The odds of doing it with late rounders are even worse.

The Chiefs had a nice run on first rounders that would be hard to duplicate. The fact that they're unlikely to be picking top half of the draft makes it that much tougher.

It's great that you think every draft pick is a homerun, but it's not very realistic.

[The Franchise]

This defense was built on first round picks. The odds of maintaining this level of talent even continuing to use first round picks aren't good. The odds of doing it with late rounders are even worse.

The Chiefs had a nice run on first rounders that would be hard to duplicate. The fact that they're unlikely to be picking top half of the draft makes it that much tougher.

It's great that you think every draft pick is a homerun, but it's not very realistic.

1st round picks of the old regime. Dorsey has shown that he can draft starters beyond the 1st round.

[RunKC]

This defense was built on first round picks. The odds of maintaining this level of talent even continuing to use first round picks aren't good. The odds of doing it with late rounders are even worse.

The Chiefs had a nice run on first rounders that would be hard to duplicate. The fact that they're unlikely to be picking top half of the draft makes it that much tougher.

It's great that you think every draft pick is a homerun, but it's not very realistic.

Ron Parker, Husain Abdullah, Sean Smith and Jaye Howard are/were all above average defenders. They were all cheap as hell and weren't draft picks.

[BryanBusby]

As it should be.

Draft, develop and re-sign your own.
Yep. If you're making big splashes in FA, you're making a lot of shit moves.

See: Miami Dolphins

[jspchief]

1st round picks of the old regime. Dorsey has shown that he can draft starters beyond the 1st round.
Starters? Sure. Berry level? DJ level? Hali level?

Yeah, occasionally they could find a Houston. But regularly? It's hard enough to hit on a 5th overall, let alone a 25th or 45th.

[staylor26]

Starters? Sure. Berry level? DJ level? Hali level?

Yeah, occasionally they could find a Houston. But regularly? It's hard enough to hit on a 5th overall, let alone a 25th or 45th.

Umm Marcus Peters? Travis Kelce? Mitch Morse?

All 3 of those guys are among the best at their positions. Chris Jones could potentially be also. Shit, Eric Fisher could be too. He could easily develop into a top 10 LT this year. Dee Ford could possibly develop into a quality 8-10 sacks a year pass rusher.

What about his ability to get guys like that in FA? (Maclin, Smith, Schwartz)

This team was a playoff caliber squad without Houston, Charles, or Hali healthy.

Good grief, you're a ****ing moron.

[RunKC]

Nick Williams had a solid year last season as a rotational player. He was stout against the run and pushed the pocket on quite a few plays.

If he keeps up the run defense and notches a few sacks as a rotational player, (also assuming Jones has a good rookie year), I'd strongly consider letting Poe go and use that money to pay a much smaller contract to Williams and use he rest to snag a FA.

[jspchief]

Umm Marcus Peters? Travis Kelce? Mitch Morse?

All 3 of those guys are among the best at their positions. Chris Jones could potentially be also. Shit, Eric Fisher could be too. He could easily develop into a top 10 LT this year. Dee Ford could possibly develop into a quality 8-10 sacks a year pass rusher.

This team was a playoff caliber squad without Houston, Charles, or Hali healthy.

Good grief, you're a ****ing moron.

Mitch Morse is among the best at his position? Peters has played 1 year. Kelce could be the greatest TE to ever play and have little impact on the teams ability to win in the post season (Gonzalez anyone?). "Chris Jones could potentially be the best at his position"... he could "potentially" be the next Caitlin Jenner too... you're just throwing shit on the wall at this point.

And tell me more about Fisher, THE FIRST FUCKING OVERALL PICK, and how that contradicts what I said in this thread. Dee Ford. First round. Marcus Peters. First round. English, motherfucker. Do you speak it?

You toss around things like "football knowledge" and "moron" but 95% of what you say on this forum is full on deep-throating homerism with no basis in fact or common sense. The reality is you're a fucking joke that probably didn't play football beyond high school and the only people that agree with you are the other fucking Chiefs cheerleaders like Dane, and Pugs.

You're a fucking clown that cant back up a single opinion with anything other than the rainbows and unicorns you shove up your ass while sucking the dick of every move the Chiefs make. Fuck off cheerleader.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Let's recap what has been said all offseason regarding this:

-The cap will again inflate in 2017 like it did this year. That's why teams went full retard in FA. I'd expect a $10m cap rise putting us at $16m (projected).


That cap raise is already figured in on OverTheCap. It's still 6 million with that. But on the flip side, the combo of Bray, Mauga and Zombo actually would save around 6 million so there's great savings in there.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Jones could certainly grab a starting spot, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter who is 'starting', Sutton needs to use all 4 of them often and effectively.

[DaneMcCloud]

You toss around things like "football knowledge" and "moron" but 95% of what you say on this forum is full on deep-throating homerism with no basis in fact or common sense. The reality is you're a fucking joke that probably didn't play football beyond high school and the only people that agree with you are the other fucking Chiefs cheerleaders like Dane, and Pugs.



I'm a cheerleader? Huh, I don't remember auditioning.

[staylor26]

Mitch Morse is among the best at his position? Peters has played 1 year. Kelce could be the greatest TE to ever play and have little impact on the teams ability to win in the post season (Gonzalez anyone?). "Chris Jones could potentially be the best at his position"... he could "potentially" be the next Caitlin Jenner too... you're just throwing shit on the wall at this point.

And tell me more about Fisher, THE FIRST ****ING OVERALL PICK, and how that contradicts what I said in this thread. Dee Ford. First round. Marcus Peters. First round. English, mother****er. Do you speak it?

You toss around things like "football knowledge" and "moron" but 95% of what you say on this forum is full on deep-throating homerism with no basis in fact or common sense. The reality is you're a ****ing joke that probably didn't play football beyond high school and the only people that agree with you are the other ****ing Chiefs cheerleaders like Dane, and Pugs.

You're a ****ing clown that cant back up a single opinion with anything other than the rainbows and unicorns you shove up your ass while sucking the dick of every move the Chiefs make. **** off cheerleader.

Mitch Morse was a top 10 center in the NFL last year as a ****ing rookie still learning the position.

Chris Jones has ridiculous upside and could've been a top 10 pick if he stayed in school. You can pretend I'm being a homer, but I was pimping him way before we drafted him. Just because you don't know shit about him doesn't mean he should be written off as that caliber of prospect when he clearly is.

I got the outside of the first round part, but are we not going to have several 1st round picks before all of those guys are gone? I don't understand why the 1st rounders should be irrelevant in this conversation. I guess because it fits your weak ****ing argument. Just like ignoring the part about the FA's that Dorsey has added.

It's not my ****ing fault you're a clueless troll that can't objectively evaluate the players on this football team.

[jspchief]

I'm a cheerleader? Huh, I don't remember auditioning.
You're a man-child that cant disagree with someone without throwing a tantrum. Go get some help.

And yes you're joke cheerleader.

[Chief Roundup]

Nick Williams had a solid year last season as a rotational player. He was stout against the run and pushed the pocket on quite a few plays.

If he keeps up the run defense and notches a few sacks as a rotational player, (also assuming Jones has a good rookie year), I'd strongly consider letting Poe go and use that money to pay a much smaller contract to Williams and use he rest to snag a FA.

He sure seems like jag type. He didn't even dress for two regular season games nor did was he dress for our playoff game against the Patriots. In his 14 games he played in 182 snaps and counted for 5 solo tackles and 4 assists.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Dorsey will just keep churning the draft and letting guys walk.

Dorsey will just push contracts into 2018, in which the Chiefs have a projected $44 million in cap space.

Not to worry.

Combination of these two.

[DaneMcCloud]

You're a man-child that cant disagree with someone without throwing a tantrum. Go get some help.

And yes you're joke cheerleader.

What's a joke cheerleader?

And LOL to the first part of your statement.

I'm not the guy lashing out at people in this thread.

[jspchief]

What's a joke cheerleader?

And LOL to the first part of your statement.

I'm not the guy lashing out at people in this thread.

Yes, I finally responded to all of the stupidity that Staylor pollutes this forum with. Now go look at my last 100 posts and your last 100 posts and tell me about "lashing out".

[staylor26]

Yes, I finally responded to all of the stupidity that Staylor pollutes this forum with. Now go look at my last 100 posts and your last 100 posts and tell me about "lashing out".

You pessimistic losers are so delusional. You act like anybody that is optimistic about this football teams future is a homer, when we clearly have every reason to fell that way. This isn't the same football team anymore. WAKE THE **** UP!!!

Dorsey added Smith, Maclin, Kelce, Morse, Peters, and Fisher, in his first 3 years, so what reason do you have to say he can't add more of those caliber of players over the next several years? We should have much more oppurtunies to do so in terms of # of draft picks also.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

@jsp

Sorry, I just don't get how being positive minded regarding this team is off base, at all.

The regime is a proven winner. I also don't see why the window is 'closing' as you say.

Consider this: in our past regimes, we had a knack for finding the occasional elite player every couple of years. I'll give you that. But we also were complete dog shit at filling out the rest of the 53 man roster in the ultimate team game.

None of us want to see DJ or Hali go, but it will eventually happen and we're going to be just fine because for once our FO hasn't been sitting on their asses and have actually been adding competitive depth for the last few years to all positions. There are already numerous cornerstones on the defense for future years that will keep us competitive (Houston, Berry, Peters) and that doesn't even account for the other talented players that don't get as much recognition.

You can doubt all that you want but the fact remains that Kansas City now has a winning culture, and there's no reason to see that changing.

[jspchief]

@jsp

Sorry, I just don't get how being positive minded regarding this team is off base, at all.

The regime is a proven winner. I also don't see why the window is 'closing' as you say.

Consider this: in our past regimes, we had a knack for finding the occasional elite player every couple of years. I'll give you that. But we also were complete dog shit at filling out the rest of the 53 man roster in the ultimate team game.

None of us want to see DJ or Hali go, but it will eventually happen and we're going to be just fine because for once our FO hasn't been sitting on their asses and have actually been adding competitive depth for the last few years to all positions. There are already numerous cornerstones on the defense for future years that will keep us competitive (Houston, Berry, Peters) and that doesn't even account for the other talented players that don't get as much recognition.

You can doubt all that you want but the fact remains that Kansas City now has a winning culture, and there's no reason to see that changing.
Dorsey has done an exceptional job of filling out the roster. I love his approach of throwing a lot of bodies at problem areas.

But there's a difference between rounding out a team that already has 8 (?) Pro Bowl level players and sustaining that talent level.

Dorsey's drafts haven't produced many impact players. You can't talk about filling holes with big contract guys like Maclin because it's not a sustainable approach with regards to cap space.

For example if Dee Ford had panned out, Hali's contract wouldn't be an issue. Sean Smith might still be here, or Poe or Berry might already be inked. Adding guards and backup safeties is great, but they aren't going to make up for elite LBers, pass rushers, DBs. Getting high caliber impact players through the draft not only makes the team better it helps with cap space.

Is it realistic to expect 2nd round Chris Jones to be on the same level as 11th overall Poe? Possible, but not realistic.

If you look at the success the Chiefs have had drafting defensive players in the first 2 rounds, it's been a really good run. The type that poises a team for a stretch of success. Unfortunately it was wasted on bad coaches, GMs, and QBs. I'm sorry that Dorsey's ability to draft Mitch Morse doesn't convince me that this team is going to continue to have Derrick Johnson level talent.

I have no doubt that Dorsey is going to field more competitive teams. But I don't necessarily believe that his ability to build 9-11 win teams translates into an ability to build superbowl teams. He may prove me wrong but currently I see a closing window of opportunity due to attrition of impact talent from age and salary cap.

[RunKC]

Dorsey has done an exceptional job of filling out the roster. I love his approach of throwing a lot of bodies at problem areas.

But there's a difference between rounding out a team that already has 8 (?) Pro Bowl level players and sustaining that talent level.

Dorsey's drafts haven't produced many impact players. You can't talk about filling holes with big contract guys like Maclin because it's not a sustainable approach with regards to cap space.

For example if Dee Ford had panned out, Hali's contract wouldn't be an issue. Sean Smith might still be here, or Poe or Berry might already be inked. Adding guards and backup safeties is great, but they aren't going to make up for elite LBers, pass rushers, DBs. Getting high caliber impact players through the draft not only makes the team better it helps with cap space.

Is it realistic to expect 2nd round Chris Jones to be on the same level as 11th overall Poe? Possible, but not realistic.

If you look at the success the Chiefs have had drafting defensive players in the first 2 rounds, it's been a really good run. The type that poises a team for a stretch of success. Unfortunately it was wasted on bad coaches, GMs, and QBs. I'm sorry that Dorsey's ability to draft Mitch Morse doesn't convince me that this team is going to continue to have Derrick Johnson level talent.

I have no doubt that Dorsey is going to field more competitive teams. But I don't necessarily believe that his ability to build 9-11 win teams translates into an ability to build superbowl teams. He may prove me wrong but currently I see a closing window of opportunity due to attrition of impact talent from age and salary cap.

What Dorsey is doing is absolutely a role in sustaining cap space. Dorsey has hit a few home runs in the draft (Peters, Morse, Kelce) but he has also signed cheap FA's that are essentially draft picks bc they are paid so damn cheap.

Abdullah, Parker, Howard, West, Ware. All these guys are a form of FA that made less than $1 million for multiple years and were above average players.

Add in a yearly bargain Safety in Branch and Coleman along with a cheap value on Sean Smith and you have a great deal.
That's not even counting Maclin or Schwartz, which were great gets.

As of today, Dorsey's drafting has cumulatively been slightly above average with a solid '13, below average '14 and amazing '15 drafts, but this guy has crushed it in FA, and that's what is putting this team over the top.

[jspchief]

What Dorsey is doing is absolutely a role in sustaining cap space. Dorsey has hit a few home runs in the draft (Peters, Morse, Kelce) but he has also signed cheap FA's that are essentially draft picks bc they are paid so damn cheap.

Abdullah, Parker, Howard, West, Ware. All these guys are a form of FA that made less than $1 million for multiple years and were above average players.

Add in a yearly bargain Safety in Branch and Coleman along with a cheap value on Sean Smith and you have a great deal.
That's not even counting Maclin or Schwartz, which were great gets.

As of today, Dorsey's drafting has cumulatively been slightly above average with a solid '13, below average '14 and amazing '15 drafts, but this guy has crushed it in FA, and that's what is putting this team over the top.

And my point is Ron Parkers and Hussain Abdullahs aren't Eric Berry. You can have all Parkers and Howards in the world and it won't matter without elite players. The difference between a FA guard and a 3rd round 2nd year guard isn't that big either in savings or impact. What does it cost to fill Berry's level of talent through free agency?

I just don't see this mindset of "Dorsey will keep plugging holes" when Dorsey has yet show he can consistently draft impact players. Plugging the hole left by Kendrick Lewis is not the same task as plugging the hole left by Tamba Hali.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

And my point is Ron Parkers and Hussain Abdullahs aren't Eric Berry. You can have all Parkers and Howards in the world and it won't matter without elite players. The difference between a FA guard and a 3rd round 2nd year guard isn't that big either in savings or impact. What does it cost to fill Berry's level of talent through free agency?

I just don't see this mindset of "Dorsey will keep plugging holes" when Dorsey has yet show he can consistently draft impact players. Plugging the hole left by Kendrick Lewis is not the same task as plugging the hole left by Tamba Hali.

He definitely needs more Coopers across the board. Still, the key component is not present.

[staylor26]

And my point is Ron Parkers and Hussain Abdullahs aren't Eric Berry. You can have all Parkers and Howards in the world and it won't matter without elite players. The difference between a FA guard and a 3rd round 2nd year guard isn't that big either in savings or impact. What does it cost to fill Berry's level of talent through free agency?

I just don't see this mindset of "Dorsey will keep plugging holes" when Dorsey has yet show he can consistently draft impact players. Plugging the hole left by Kendrick Lewis is not the same task as plugging the hole left by Tamba Hali.

We won quite a bit of football games, including a playoff game, without Charles, Houston, and a hobbled Hali. We were almost a playoff team, and the #1 pass defense in the NFL without DJ, and Berry out half the year in 2014.

All of these guys you say we can't replace have been out for significant periods of time and we've continued to win football games while adding to our overall talent level and depth.

You deem them irreplaceable when they were drafted by shitter regimes and developed by less competent coaching staffs. Why is that so impossible to duplicate with a much better front office and coaching staff? That entire group also took some time to become those caliber of players. Time you refuse to give guys like Fisher and Ford to develop before you rush to judgement.

[RunKC]

And my point is Ron Parkers and Hussain Abdullahs aren't Eric Berry. You can have all Parkers and Howards in the world and it won't matter without elite players. The difference between a FA guard and a 3rd round 2nd year guard isn't that big either in savings or impact. What does it cost to fill Berry's level of talent through free agency?

I just don't see this mindset of "Dorsey will keep plugging holes" when Dorsey has yet show he can consistently draft impact players. Plugging the hole left by Kendrick Lewis is not the same task as plugging the hole left by Tamba Hali.

That's not the point.

an entire roster can't be filled with Eric Berry type talents. You can only hope that you can find a top 10 caliber football player at their position for every level of the team.
Dorsey was handed 5 players that were legit top 10 talents at their position: Berry, JC, DJ, Tamba, Houston and Poe (I guess 6 if you count Colquitt but he's a fucking punter so for sake of the argument he won't be included).

In 3 years, Dorsey has added 5 premium talents that could be argued as top 10 players as of today: Peters, Maclin, Schwartz, Kelce, Morse.

The best you can offer is a premium player at a position surrounded by above average contributors.

Well, 10 players that are legit "top 10" talents at their position are on this team surrounded by a lot of good role players. Yes you can throw out the fact that Tamba and DJ are old, but they don't look like they are off the tracks yet (Tamba has knee issues tho so we'll see).

Other than that, Idk what else you want.

[jspchief]

We won quite a bit of football games, including a playoff game, without Charles, Houston, and a hobbled Hali. We were almost a playoff team, and the #1 pass defense in the NFL without DJ, and Berry out half the year in 2014.

All of these guys you say we can't replace have been out for significant periods of time and we've continued to win football games while adding to our overall talent level and depth. All these guys you deem irreplaceable were drafted by shitter regimes, yet you think that is so impossible to duplicate. They also took some time to become those players. Time you refuse to give guys like Fisher and Ford to develop before you rush to judgement.

Drafted by shittier regimes, yes. Regimes that had the luxury of drafting in the top half of the order more often than not. And it will be difficult to duplicate it. There are few if any other NFL teams that can boast the level of first round success KC has had since drafting DJ. It's not easy to replicate. If you think it is, show me how many teams have done it since 2005.

And tell me more about how much time it took them to succeed. Rookie starters like Hali, DJ, Poe, Berry. Dee Ford is on pace to catch Hali's rookie season sack total in 10 years... if he gets to line up against the worst tackle in the league more often. Who needs time anyways? You've already crowned Jones one of the best in the nfl at his position and he hasnt taken a snap.

[RINGLEADER]

Dorsey will just push contracts into 2018, in which the Chiefs have a projected $44 million in cap space.

Not to worry.

Combination of this and franchising the one big name he doesn't think we can live without. He usually is pretty good about getting the B-players extended during the season and franchising the star (who I would guess would be Dontari Poe). He'll make the room for that extra year for Poe and, as Dane suggests, free up some space with musical chairs.

[O.city]

I'd say 3 potential all pro type players drafted thru 3 drafts is replacing talent.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'd say 3 potential all pro type players drafted thru 3 drafts is replacing talent.

Who are the other 2?

[staylor26]

Drafted by shittier regimes, yes. Regimes that had the luxury of drafting in the top half of the order more often than not. And it will be difficult to duplicate it. There are few if any other NFL teams that can boast the level of first round success KC has had since drafting DJ. It's not easy to replicate. If you think it is, show me how many teams have done it since 2005.

And tell me more about how much time it took them to succeed. Rookie starters like Hali, DJ, Poe, Berry. Dee Ford is on pace to catch Hali's rookie season sack total in 10 years... if he gets to line up against the worst tackle in the league more often. Who needs time anyways? You've already crowned Jones one of the best in the nfl at his position and he hasnt taken a snap.

Only one of those guys was a top 10 pick, so it's not like we loaded up Jaguars style.

The two best players on this team were 3rd rounders. Dorsey has shown the ability to find pro bowl caliber players in the 2nd/3rd rounds.

Also, DJ was benched at one point and Hali was considered a guy that couldn't finish or play OLB in a 3/4. Berry was also somewhat of a disappointment that appeared to possibly be ending tragically.

Dee Ford's actually been a fairly productive pass rusher snap for snap (in terms of pressures). He's just barely seen the field and needs to learn to finish and develop as a pass rusher like Hali did. You just want to write him off now so you have something to bitch about since you're running out.

I'm not ****ing crowning Jones either, I just know what the **** his upside is and have all the confidence in our coaching staff to get him to reach it. It's not my problem that you're a ****ing clueless idiot that can't see that or at least accept it as a possibility.

We're only going to year 4 of this thing and you want to write off any pick that hasn't developed into an All-Pro already. Including the ones we've drafted in the last two years. That's ignorant as ****. Guys like Ford, Conley, Gaines, Jones, and Russell all have the upside to be quality starters. Give it some ****ing time.

[O.city]

Who are the other 2?

Kelce, Peters, morse

[jspchief]

Kelce, Peters, morse
Morse is potential all pro now? Is this a mizzou thing?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Morse is potential all pro now? Is this a mizzou thing?

Yeah, he really is....

He was probably a top 5 center in his rookie year so, to be top 2 at any point seems very possible

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I'll just be honest, I think you're placing too much emphasis on 'elite' talent, jsp.

Yes, Tamba, DJ, Berry and Poe were all great first round picks, but they also amounted to a grand 3 winning seasons out of 8 dating back to DJ's rookie year up until the new regime.

Now, we've had 3 winning seasons in 3 years.

It's all about who is running the show and sculpting the culture, teaching the players.

After all, DJ, Hali, Poe and Berry didn't keep us from going 2-14 a few years ago.

[staylor26]

Morse is potential all pro now? Is this a mizzou thing?

He was a top 10 center in the NFL last year as a rookie. Are you ****ing retarded?

[jspchief]

He was a top 10 center in the NFL last year as a rookie. Are you ****ing retarded?
Top 10 is pretty much the same as all pro. Huh.

Is it hard to type with his dick down your esophagus?

[jspchief]

Nothing says superbowl more than centers and TEs.

[staylor26]

Top 10 is pretty much the same as all pro. Huh.

Is it hard to type with his dick down your esophagus?

Top 10 was being conservative, but let's completely ignore the key part ("as a rookie"). Why is it so hard for you to project how good a player can be after further development. Are you really that ****ing clueless? He was fantastic in his first year playing a relatively new position. Of course he's only going to get better. Not to mention the talent next to him could be improved to help him also.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nothing says superbowl more than centers and TEs.

Or inside linebackers and safeties, right?

You act as if you have some sort of insight that guys like Staylor or Pugs or even I don't have, yet all you do is bitch and moan about the Chiefs.

And bringing up high school football?

LMAO

Glory days?

[staylor26]

Nothing says superbowl more than centers and TEs.

First it was Dorsey can't find those caliber players. Now you're moving on to positional value.

I mean with all that talent he had handed to him by those great fucking regimes of the past, what other positions did you expect him to go after?

[staylor26]

Or inside linebackers and safeties, right?

Boom. Great fucking point.

[jspchief]

Top 10 was being conservative, but let's completely ignore the key part ("as a rookie"). Why is it so hard for you to project how good a player can be after further development. Are you really that ****ing clueless? He was fantastic in his first year playing a relatively new position. Of course he's only going to get better. Not to mention the talent next to him could be improved to help him also.
The problem I have with you is there isn't a guy on the roster that isn't a potential all pro. As long as he's not a paraplegic, you think he's going to set the nfl on fire. Have you ever had a negative opinion about any Chiefs player?

I mean, you do realize that statistically speaking, he's not likely to be an all pro player? Do you understand that? Is this where you claim your superior football knowledge makes you capable of predicting him beating the odds?

We all understand what's possible but you seem to have no comprehension of what's probable.

[staylor26]

The problem I have with you is there isn't a guy on the roster that isn't a potential all pro. As long as he's not a paraplegic, you think he's going to set the nfl on fire. Have you ever had a negative opinion about any Chiefs player?

I mean, you do realize that statistically speaking, he's not likely to be an all pro player? Do you understand that? Is this where you claim your superior football knowledge makes you capable of predicting him beating the odds?

We all understand what's possible but you seem to have no comprehension of what's probable.

First off, I haven't pimped one ****ing guy that isn't at least a 3rd rounder in this conversation. It's not like I'm saying Wilson, Ware, LDT, March, Wilson, White, etc. are potentially All-Pro's. I guess because I really like CAT you assume I have a homer take on all these other guys? It's certainly not based on anything concrete.

Also, I'm completely aware of the fact that that isn't probable, but when you draft guys every year that have that potential and continue to develop them within this winning culture you will continue to win. Some will pan out, and some won't. At the rate they're panning out for us right now we will be fine.

It's what all the other consistent playoff contenders do and there's not reason to think we can't do it. We've been one of the best in the NFL at drafting/signing and developing talent in the NFL the past 3 years. Why is that going to all of a sudden stop?

[DaneMcCloud]

Saying that a solid or even championship football team can't be built through the draft is asinine.

Look at Seattle: They, for the most part, failed to hit on first round guys but had incredible success from rounds 2-7 and quickly went to a Super Bowl, won one and lost on a fluke play in another.

Baltimore's most recent Super Bowl team was built through the draft as were runner up teams like the 49ers.

Teams aren't going to hit on every single pick but if they hit on 60%+ each and every year, they're going to have a contender year in and year out.

[staylor26]

Saying that a solid or even championship football team can't be built through the draft is asinine.

Look at Seattle: They, for the most part, failed to hit on first round guys but had incredible success from rounds 2-7 and quickly went to a Super Bowl, won one and lost on a fluke play in another.

Baltimore's most recent Super Bowl team was built through the draft as were runner up teams like the 49ers.

Teams aren't going to hit on every single pick but if they hit on 60%+ each and every year, they're going to have a contender year in and year out.

His argument is that we can't do that drafting late (even though those teams did too).

Yet that is exactly what we've done, except for the one year we had a top 5 pick in one of the worst ****ing drafts ever.

We also did it missing a day 2 pick in just about every draft so far.

[DaneMcCloud]

His argument is essentially that we can't do that drafting late.

Yet that is exactly what we've done, except for the one year we had a top 5 pick in one of the worst fucking drafts ever.

We also did it missing a day 2 pick in just about every draft so far.

Look at Seattle: Chancellor, Sherman, Malcolm Smith and others were Day Theee picks. Wagner was a 2, Max Unger was a 2, Lynch was traded for a 4, Baldwin was undrafted, Golden Tate was a 2 and so on.

It's not even worth mentioning that their QB was a 3.

The notion that great teams can't be and aren't built on Day 2 & 3 is wrong.

[staylor26]

Look at Seattle: Chancellor, Sherman, Malcolm Smith and others were Day Theee picks. Wagner was a 2, Max Unger was a 2, Lynch was traded for a 4, Baldwin was undrafted, Golden Tate was a 2 and so on.

It's not even worth mentioning that their QB was a 3.

The notion that great teams can't be and aren't built on Day 2 & 3 is wrong.

And completely ignoring how good of a job Dorsey has done finding talent in those rounds with the lack of opportunities is really ignorant.

[staylor26]

By the way, since I mentioned the Jags, it's worth noting that their two best offensive players were drafted in round 2 and signed as an UDFA. Those picks were the ones that got that thing going in the right direction.

[jspchief]

Saying that a solid or even championship football team can't be built through the draft is asinine.

I agree. Who said that?

[jspchief]

His argument is that we can't do that drafting late (even though those teams did too).

Yet that is exactly what we've done, except for the one year we had a top 5 pick in one of the worst ****ing drafts ever.

We also did it missing a day 2 pick in just about every draft so far.

My argument is that it's not easy so to sit back and say "Dorsey will just plug holes with comp picks" is ridiculously simplifying the issue.

You're basically saying "the Patriots found a QB in round 6 so we can too". Or Richard Sherman was a late round pick so who cares if we lose Sean Smith.

All I'm saying is its easy to look at the Seahawks and say "see what works" but it's a hell of a lot harder to execute it. It's not like they knew what Sherman was when they picked him. They got lucky. Hell, it takes a degree of luck to get it right in the first round.

The Chiefs are going to lose some great players to age. They are also likely to lose some great players to salary cap. That is a window of opportunity that is closing.

The idea that it's no big deal because they have a bunch of comp picks is fucking ridiculous. It will take a level of success at talent evaluation that Dorsey has not proven he has yet and even if he does have it, it will take a fuck ton of luck too.

Is the team better with DJ on the field? Berry? Are these guys easily replaced? They won some games with Berry out with cancer... would they have been a better team with a healthy Berry on the field?

The suspension of reality in an effort to not say anything negative has become ridiculous. Do you guys even think about the shit you are typing? You clearly don't read what I'm typing.

[DaneMcCloud]

My argument is that it's not easy so to sit back and say "Dorsey will just plug holes with comp picks" is ridiculously simplifying the issue.

You're basically saying "the Patriots found a QB in round 6 so we can too". Or Richard Sherman was a late round pick so who cares if we lose Sean Smith.

All I'm saying is its easy to look at the Seahawks and say "see what works" but it's a hell of a lot harder to execute it. It's not like they knew what Sherman was when they picked him. They got lucky. Hell, it takes a degree of luck to get it right in the first round.

The Chiefs are going to lose some great players to age. They are also likely to lose some great players to salary cap. That is a window of opportunity that is closing.

The idea that it's no big deal because they have a bunch of comp picks is fucking ridiculous. It will take a level of success at talent evaluation that Dorsey has not proven he has yet and even if he does have it, it will take a fuck ton of luck too.

Is the team better with DJ on the field? Berry? Are these guys easily replaced? They won some games with Berry out with cancer... would they have been a better team with a healthy Berry on the field?

The suspension of reality in an effort to not say anything negative has become ridiculous. Do you guys even think about the shit you are typing? You clearly don't read what I'm typing.

The Chiefs went 9-7 without DJ and DeVito. Berry wasn't available for several games in 2014, yet the secondary was one of the best in the NFL.

The main reason they only won 9 games was lack of depth at running back, OL and little to no talent at WR.

And still won 9 games.

You're not thinking about this clearly. Dorsey has stacked the talent on this roster and will continue to do so. He's not a n00b, nor is he a Peter Principled jackass nor has he overstayed his welcome by 11 years.

He's a former NFL player and a scout at heart. He's found starters and contributors in weak drafts, the waiver wire and as undrafted free agents. He drafts guys that fit the systems and have all the tangibles and intangibles that the coaching staff needs. He doesn't just draft a guy because he plays a position (Eric Downing, Ryan Sims, Eddie Freeman, Junior Siavii, etc.).

To say it's "luck" is naive.

[BlackOp]

To me...the fact they didn't draft Myles Jack says more about Poe's upcoming contract. It was the ideal scenario...top 3 prospect falling at a position that is getting old...with a year to groom behind one of the best.

Dorsey is hedging on the expensive positions...and Poe is going to get paid. I think this is his last season as a Chief....might be Berry's too. He did this with Peters last year. Dorsey/Reid know the importance of "emotional leaders"...*see Ray Lewis*. They might opt to keep Berry for this reason... once Hali/DJ hang it up.

Dropping JC and DJ gets complicated politically...they are both ring of honor, career Chief players.

[DaneMcCloud]

To me...the fact they didn't draft Myles Jack says more about Poe's upcoming contract. It was the ideal scenario...top 3 prospect falling at a position that is getting old...with a year to groom behind one of the best.

Dorsey is hedging on the expensive positions...and Poe is going to get paid. I think this is his last season as a Chief....might be Berry's too.

Dropping JC and DJ gets complicated politically...they are both ring of honor, career Chief, players.

Dorsey has stated in several interviews that his guy was Jones.

Dallas and Jax can waste draft picks on boom or bust players because both teams suck.

The Chiefs need an immediate contributor.

[staylor26]

My argument is that it's not easy so to sit back and say "Dorsey will just plug holes with comp picks" is ridiculously simplifying the issue.

You're basically saying "the Patriots found a QB in round 6 so we can too". Or Richard Sherman was a late round pick so who cares if we lose Sean Smith.

All I'm saying is its easy to look at the Seahawks and say "see what works" but it's a hell of a lot harder to execute it. It's not like they knew what Sherman was when they picked him. They got lucky. Hell, it takes a degree of luck to get it right in the first round.

The Chiefs are going to lose some great players to age. They are also likely to lose some great players to salary cap. That is a window of opportunity that is closing.

The idea that it's no big deal because they have a bunch of comp picks is ****ing ridiculous. It will take a level of success at talent evaluation that Dorsey has not proven he has yet and even if he does have it, it will take a **** ton of luck too.

Is the team better with DJ on the field? Berry? Are these guys easily replaced? They won some games with Berry out with cancer... would they have been a better team with a healthy Berry on the field?

The suspension of reality in an effort to not say anything negative has become ridiculous. Do you guys even think about the shit you are typing? You clearly don't read what I'm typing.

I'm reading everything you're typing and it's fucking stupid.

Did we trade away all of our day one and two picks for the next few years? Will we not be able to sign anybody? Who is banking it all on the comp picks? They're just more lottery tickets, but that doesn't mean we won't hit on some too.

We can get talent many different ways, as we have every year since Dorsey's been here. Again, why the fuck do you think that's going to change when we'll have even more picks?

Also, do you really think every guy like Conley, Ford, Gaines, Jones and Russell is going to bust? Why can't at least a couple of those guys develop into quality starters?

[jspchief]

The Chiefs went 9-7 without DJ and DeVito. Berry wasn't available for several games in 2014, yet the secondary was one of the best in the NFL.

The main reason they only won 9 games was lack of depth at running back, OL and little to no talent at WR.

And still won 9 games.
I'm genuinely curious what point you're trying to argue here. That's it's possible to win games without star players? I never claimed otherwise.

Are they better with or without them? We're the Chiefs better at the start of 2015 with Sean Smith suspended? Do you think think they would have been a better team with Smith on the field? Do you think Dorsey thinks they would have been better with Smith out there?

Would the 2014 Chiefs have been a better team with a healthy Devito, DJ, and Berry? Or is the goal 9-7?

What point are you trying to make?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm genuinely curious what point you're trying to argue here. That's it's possible to win games without star players? I never claimed otherwise.

Are they better with or without them? We're the Chiefs better at the start of 2015 with Sean Smith suspended? Do you think think they would have been a better team with Smith on the field? Do you think Dorsey thinks they would have been better with Smith out there?

Would the 2014 Chiefs have been a better team with a healthy Devito, DJ, and Berry? Or is the goal 9-7?

What point are you trying to make?
The Sean Smith argument is completely flawed.

Stating that "draft picks" don't work out is flawed, as the last 15 draft picks are on the current roster.

The point I'm making is that you're talking out of your ass by insulting Pugs and Staylor, and of course me, with your position.

[BlackOp]

Dorsey has stated in several interviews that his guy was Jones.


Yeah, he said Jones was...but KC isn't exactly shallow at that position. I would say DJ's replacement is more pressing ...

I think the writing is on the wall..if Jones looks good.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, he said Jones was...but KC isn't exactly shallow at that position. I would say DJ's replacement is more pressing ...

I think the writing is on the wall..if Jones looks good.

Above average ILBers can be found each year in the first and second round.

[kccrow]

John Dorsey came from the best team in the NFL at drafting and developing its own talent. In fact, Green Bay is among the top few in the NFL at getting contributors from late round picks. I have more faith in Dorsey than to just get guys from round 1.

And having the comps helps, at least he has that many more chances to hit on talent despite letting good talent go.

[kccrow]

Above average ILBers can be found each year in the first and second every year.

Hell, 3rd and 4th lately.

[BlackOp]

Above average ILBers can be found each year in the first and second round.

Possibly...but Jack has the ability to replace DJ....who was I think was the #15 pick. I dont think anyone views one of the top overall prospects as simply "above average".

That's what I mean by "hedging"...or financial hedging.

He obviously thinks DL is more valuable.

[DaneMcCloud]

Possibly...but Jack has the ability to replace DJ....who was I think was the #15 pick. I dont think anyone views one of the top overall prospects as simply "above average".

That's what I mean by "hedging"...or financial hedging.

He obviously thinks DL is more pressing.

DJ didn't produce to his draft position until his fifth season.

In today's NFL, he'd have been cut by Year 3.

[BlackOp]

DJ didn't produce to his draft position until his fifth season.

In today's NFL, he'd have been cut by Year 3.

But that's really not what I'm talking about...it's about the direction Dorsey was looking...which was DL. Which..to me..says Poe is potentially gone. It's how they handled Smith once they knew Peters could produce..

DJ was a late bloomer for sure...really rare career trajectory.

[jspchief]

The Sean Smith argument is completely flawed.

Stating that "draft picks" don't work out is flawed, as the last 15 draft picks are on the current roster.

The point I'm making is that you're talking out of your ass by insulting Pugs and Staylor, and of course me, with your position.

So you're saying that the team can be above mediocre without its best players. That puts my mind at ease. I never claimed draft picks don't work out. You're literally inventing things to argue against.

As for insults, I only responded in kind to Staylor when he came at with his typical "moron" response to an opinion he doesn't like. As for you, it's so laughably hypocritical that you're crying about this, it barely deserves a response.

[DaneMcCloud]

So you're saying that the team can be above mediocre without its best players. That puts my mind at ease. I never claimed draft picks don't work out. You're literally inventing things to argue against.

As for insults, I only responded in kind to Staylor when he came at with his typical "moron" response to an opinion he doesn't like. As for you, it's so laughably hypocritical that you're crying about this, it barely deserves a response.

Crying? You know what? Fuck you. You've been a gigantic dickhead all year.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: When the Chiefs sucked, your constant bitching and whining was somewhat relevant.

But from 2013-2015? No, not at all.

If you want to bitch, go ahead and bitch. But don't pretend that I just go off on anyone and everyone, because it's complete fallacy. But hey, whatever makes you happy, which currently is living in denial about your rampant dumbassery.

But hey, kudos for proving you're a dumbfuck that lives in the past.

Glory Days!

[O.city]

Morse is potential all pro now? Is this a mizzou thing?

No, not really.

Being as good as he was as a rookie, I'd think that's the pathway he's on. Same with Peters

[Mr. Laz]

Poe and Berry walk, cap issue solved.

Howard to NT, Jones drafted to step into RDE spot
Drafted tons of secondary guys this year so Parker could move back to FS

Dorsey SOP


Sorry fellas

[RunKC]

Poe and Berry walk, cap issue solved.

Howard to NT, Jones drafted to step into RDE spot
Drafted tons of secondary guys this year so Parker could move back to FS

Dorsey SOP


Sorry fellas

Dorsey has already been working on extensions for Berry and Poe. Berry isn't going anywhere. Doesn't sound like Poe is either.

[Chief Roundup]

In looking at the link in pugs OP there are a couple of things that caught my eye this morning.
Cutting Tyler Bray would save $1.225M. Since we drafted Hogan it seems that unless Bray has some coming out party that he is likely gone.
Jamaal Charles' contract expires after the 2017 season. We could do some kind of extension to drop his $7M cap number in 2017. Depending on how this season plays out Charles may be expendable as well.

[RunKC]

2018 FA's:

Fisher-will most likely extend
JC-will probably retire or take small extension
Colquitt
Ford-5th year option?
Ware
Gaines-will most likey extend at small rate
Fulton
LDT
Howard-29 in 2018.

Dorsey's history says DE to replace Howard will be our first Rd pick in 2017 draft unless Ford bombs (OLB in next year's draft is as loaded as DL in this year's) with another OL in the mid rounds.

[Halfcan]

Hali is most likely gone. I know myself and others were kind of expecting that until the Houston injury threatened part of his season.

People on here have been predicting Hali being cut for years now. I think the Chiefs see things different.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/tamba-hali/

Why would they sign him to a 3 year deal if they plan on cutting him? That would be a lot of dead money.

Same with DJ. They will retire as Chiefs and go in the Ring of Honor together.

[Halfcan]

Crying? You know what? **** you. You've been a gigantic dickhead all year.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: When the Chiefs sucked, your constant bitching and whining was somewhat relevant.

But from 2013-2015? No, not at all.

If you want to bitch, go ahead and bitch. But don't pretend that I just go off on anyone and everyone, because it's complete fallacy. But hey, whatever makes you happy, which currently is living in denial about your rampant dumbassery.

But hey, kudos for proving you're a dumb**** that lives in the past.

Glory Days!

:clap: Great post!

[Chief Roundup]

People on here have been predicting Hali being cut for years now. I think the Chiefs see things different.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/tamba-hali/

Why would they sign him to a 3 year deal if they plan on cutting him? That would be a lot of dead money.

Same with DJ. They will retire as Chiefs and go in the Ring of Honor together.

Hali has been slowing down the last couple of years he will turn 33 during the season. It all depends on how much more he slows down this season.
It might be hard to justify $8.5M for his production when he will be 34 years old. Hali has a huge heart and has always played as hard as he could but father time doesn't stop. He may retire instead of being cut who knows.

[RunKC]

Hali has been slowing down the last couple of years he will turn 33 during the season. It all depends on how much more he slows down this season.
It might be hard to justify $8.5M for his production when he will be 34 years old. Hali has a huge heart and has always played as hard as he could but father time doesn't stop. He may retire instead of being cut who knows.

2017 draft has a lot of good OLB prospects. Draft one early as the #3 OLB.

Best case scenario: you have Ford, Houston, healthy Tamba and an early draft pick as great depth.

Worst case scenario: Ford busts, Tamba has to retire and you have an early round OLB to step in.

Not bad

[DaneMcCloud]

Hali has been slowing down the last couple of years he will turn 33 during the season. It all depends on how much more he slows down this season.
It might be hard to justify $8.5M for his production when he will be 34 years old. Hali has a huge heart and has always played as hard as he could but father time doesn't stop. He may retire instead of being cut who knows.

Do you realize that if the Chiefs cut Hali, they take a $7.3 million dollar cap charge?

And while Hali may be slowing a bit, he was a Pro Bowler last year and had more sacks, in two less games, than 2014.

Besides that, he's a mentor and a great lockerroom leader.

The Chiefs would be foolish to cut him and take that cap charge when he's able to help the team.

[Chief Roundup]

Do you realize that if the Chiefs cut Hali, they take a $7.3 million dollar cap charge?

And while Hali may be slowing a bit, he was a Pro Bowler last year and had more sacks, in two less games, than 2014.

Besides that, he's a mentor and a great lockerroom leader.

The Chiefs would be foolish to cut him and take that cap charge when he's able to help the team.

Yes I realize cutting him would leave us with that dead money. Cutting him is not something I want, but I do see as a possibility. He had a half a sack more last season. He also had 10 less tackles. According to http://www.nfl.com/player/tambahali/2506883/careerstats he only missed one game. He played in the oakland game week 16. He just didn't start. He also didn't start our playoff game against Houston.
He is a great locker room guy and a leader on the team.
Whether he retires or gets cut probably mostly depends on his ability to play at a high enough level this season combined with the play of others at OLB.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I just want camp to get here so we can see who is going to win some jobs.

2 guard positions
2 WR positions
DL rotation
ILB next to DJ
2 corner positions

But the thing is they aren't 'holes'. Just jobs on a good football team that have competition. I can't wait for preseason, yeah, I said it.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Yes I realize cutting him would leave us with that dead money. Cutting him is not something I want, but I do see as a possibility. He had a half a sack more last season. He also had 10 less tackles. According to http://www.nfl.com/player/tambahali/2506883/careerstats he only missed one game. He played in the oakland game week 16. He just didn't start. He also didn't start our playoff game against Houston.
He is a great locker room guy and a leader on the team.
Whether he retires or gets cut probably mostly depends on his ability to play at a high enough level this season combined with the play of others at OLB.

The point being made is that the savings of just over a million in cap space is not worth what Hali still brings to the team. Even if he ends up just as a rotational player by year's end, which would actually be ideal if it means Ford is playing well, he still brings more than a million dollars worth of leadership and ability.

[DJ's left nut]

Do you realize that if the Chiefs cut Hali, they take a $7.3 million dollar cap charge?

And while Hali may be slowing a bit, he was a Pro Bowler last year and had more sacks, in two less games, than 2014.

Besides that, he's a mentor and a great lockerroom leader.

The Chiefs would be foolish to cut him and take that cap charge when he's able to help the team.

It was foolish to sign Hali.

But the ink's dry so you just live with it. Yeah, you don't cut the guy to save $1.5 million in cap space; there are far more sensible ways to make things fit than that.

Hali's probably not a $7 million player the next 2 years, but he's damn sure worth more than the $1+ million you'd save by cutting him. Hali and DJ are here for 2 more years, likewise with Smith.

And after that it's fair to say that all bets are off. The window on THIS version of this team probably does close fairly soon. The response isn't to argue otherwise, it's to ask who gives a fuck? Time remains undefeated and untied; all teams will eventually turn over and the next 2 seasons will see the departure of some very long-term Chiefs....and?

The NFL is hard. Winning at this level is hard. Dorsey will have to do a good job EVERY year to keep this team succeeding, just as pretty much all GMs do.

I'll worry about 2018 in 2018. This version of this team has a 2 year window to worry about and after that who the hell knows what we'll have. But our GM is a pretty smart guy with nothing in his history to suggest that he's just gonna get dumb. There may be a mis-step here and there; a stumble for a season or two - again, the NFL is hard. But this is a good regime; they'll deal with the realities of age and a cap league and they'll come out the other side better than most.

[Chief Roundup]

The point being made is that the savings of just over a million in cap space is not worth what Hali still brings to the team. Even if he ends up just as a rotational player by year's end, which would actually be ideal if it means Ford is playing well, he still brings more than a million dollars worth of leadership and ability.

So you want to pay a rotational level player $8.5M?

[RunKC]

I just want camp to get here so we can see who is going to win some jobs.

2 guard positions
2 WR positions
DL rotation
ILB next to DJ
2 corner positions

But the thing is they aren't 'holes'. Just jobs on a good football team that have competition. I can't wait for preseason, yeah, I said it.

QB-Alex
RB-JC---West/Ware
FB-Sherman
LT-Fisher
LG-Ehinger
C-Morse
RG-LDT
RT-Schwartz
TE-Kelce
WR-Maclin
WR-Conley/slot---Streater

DE-Bailey
NT-Poe/--Jones rotates at all positions
DE-Howard
OLB-Ford
ILB-DJ
ILB-March
OLB-Tamba/don't think Houston will start week 1. Will rotate on few snaps
CB-Peters
CB-Russell/slot---Gaines
SS-Berry/#3 S--Murray
FS-Parker

PR-Hill

[DaneMcCloud]

The NFL is hard. Winning at this level is hard. Dorsey will have to do a good job EVERY year to keep this team succeeding, just as pretty much all GMs do.

Next year is already being heralded as a great year for edge pass rushers. The Chiefs will have plenty of ammo to move up or to just grab a couple of guys. IF a player like March, Alexander and Wilson can become legitimate a starter, Dorsey's job just became much easier.

Dwight Freeney had 8 sacks in 317 snaps last year at age 35. Hali had 6.5 in 857 snaps while dealing with a hobbled knee.

If the Chiefs can reduce his snap count, he'll probably become more effective over the next two seasons. His deal is really a two year, $12 million contract and if he can provide a minimum of 6 sacks a year, the deal will look okay in 2018.

[DaneMcCloud]

So you want to pay a rotational level player $8.5M?

He's already signed. They're not going to cut him and eat $7.3 million, regardless of whether or not he's a rotational player or a starter.

[O.city]

IIRC, Hali had a bunch of pressures last year.

Can interpret that two ways.
A. He still can put pressure on the QB and pressure breaks pipes.

B. He has slowed down enough that he just can't get home anymore.

Hopefully the healthy knee will help, but age doesn't stop for any player.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

So you want to pay a rotational level player $8.5M?

It doesn't matter what he's paid, he's much more valuable at that price than the mere 1.5 million you'll get to make him a June 1st cut.

Who knows man, for all we know Tamba does what Dumervil did a couple seasons ago and his production goes way up because he's playing less snaps. That's what Tamba talked about doing himself in his interview after signing.

This could turn out to be a really good, or bad contract. But we won't know until after two years.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

To respond to RunKC's projected depth chart, seems very close to what I would expect.

Only differences I see is probably at LG where I am not sure Ehinger will be ready to play or not, so I would guess Jah Reid right now. But, if they want Reid to be the swing tackle that will probably not happen.

I also expect us to use Gaines outside in our base defense and kick him inside in the nickel package, where the best man between Russell, Murray, White and Nelson will win the outside job.

[DJ's left nut]

Nothing says superbowl more than centers and TEs.

It's all about the shell game.

If you can keep drafting average to above average interior lineman it keeps you from having to burn $10-$15 million in cap space on them.

That's cap space that can then be used to pay for higher impact players.

Look at this way - the Raiders had a cap hit of $13 million for Hudson last year and $13 million for Osemele this year; that's $26 million for a couple of very good interior lineman. Those guys will likely be better than what we'll get out of Morse and LDT, but they won't be $24 million better. So are Morse and LDT championship makers? Well no, but they free up the salary that allows you to re-sign Houston. Or go after Maclin AND Schwartz in FA.

Dorsey's ability to backfill areas on the roster with existing, cheaper talent allows him to supplement that talent outside of the organization. It allows him to keep the window open.

So even if he's not hitting homeruns in the first rounds, if he continues hitting singles and doubles in the later rounds, he'll manufacture the runs he needs. Honestly, it's a hell of a lot more sustainable approach than moving forward on the assumption that you'll keep getting pro bowler's in the first round.

I think in the end it circles back to this idea that way too many people have on this board that all first rounders are studs and that all second rounders should be immediate starters, 3rd rounders eventual starters, 4th rounders key contributors, etc, etc...; the large numbers are obvious - the draft doesn't work that way. There's not a team in the league constantly nailing its first rounders or filling its roster with premier talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Dorsey's draft returns have been well above average and I don't see any reason to believe that would change.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Hali will retire a Chief.

It is written.

[Dave Lane]

Do you realize that if the Chiefs cut Hali, they take a $7.3 million dollar cap charge?

And while Hali may be slowing a bit, he was a Pro Bowler last year and had more sacks, in two less games, than 2014.

Besides that, he's a mentor and a great lockerroom leader.

The Chiefs would be foolish to cut him and take that cap charge when he's able to help the team.

This. Forget the cut Hali nonsense already.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Probably DJ too.

[jspchief]

This. Forget the cut Hali nonsense already.
Yeah he's likely here for at least the first 2 years of the contract. It's structured in a way that it's tough to cut him before that. I believe his 2017 salary is fully guaranteed. If they considered him to be a source to create cap space in 2017, they wouldn't have done that.

[jspchief]

Would love to see Wilson or one of the other LBers beat out Mauga this year. Mauga is a jag in this defense and I'm not sure he's worth his contract.

[staylor26]

I think March takes Mauga's job.

Dorsey rarely talks up guys like he does March. Especially considering he hasn't even played a down in he regular season. Reminds me of how he talked about Kelce going into year two.

[mcaj22]

happy trails Charles, Colquitt and Mauga.

problem solved. that was easy.

[Valiant]

If we are 6mil under right now we are fine.

[Mr. Laz]

I just want camp to get here so we can see who is going to win some jobs.

2 guard positions
2 WR positions
DL rotation
ILB next to DJ
2 corner positions

But the thing is they aren't 'holes'. Just jobs on a good football team that have competition. I can't wait for preseason, yeah, I said it.
semantics ... if the players aren't good enough at any of those positions you listed then they become holes. If the players aren't good enough YET at any of those positions it becomes a hole.

You can blow sunshine out your ass all you want, until we see the players listed on paper actually DO the job, it means nothing.

fyi Camp doesn't mean shit either, until we see the players succeed against other teams we won't know what we have.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

happy trails Charles, Colquitt and Mauga.

problem solved. that was easy.

I don't think so. You keep that fucker until his leg literally falls off.