PFF's 2016 Chiefs Season Preview

[OnTheWarpath15]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-2016-season-preview-kansas-city-chiefs/?utm_content=buffer7bb34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

The Kansas City Chiefs were one of the most compelling stories of the 2015 NFL season. After starting 1-5 and losing their best offensive player, the Chiefs won 10 straight regular season games, followed by their first playoff victory since January of 1994. The Chiefs began the offseason with a difficult offseason – with defensive stalwarts Eric Berry (88.0 PFF rating last year), Derrick Johnson (87.4), Tamba Hali (87.6), Sean Smith (83.8) and Jaye Howard (81.6) all set to hit free agency, along with emerging guard Jeff Allen (85.5). The Chiefs were able to retain all of said players, with the exceptions of Smith and Allen. A solid draft, the return of star running back Jamaal Charles (79.0), and uncertainty atop the AFC West make 2016 a season of opportunity in Kansas City. Below we summarize how the Chiefs’ personnel stacks up against the rest of the league, and preview each position group heading into 2016.

The solid-but-unspectacular Smith leads the way

Quarterbacks: 19th in PFF’s preseason rankings

The Alex Smith case has always been an enigmatic one – with play that is consistent enough to build a winning team around (as his teams’ records of 49-21-1 over the last five years would attest), but with a lack of high-end production that leaves you wanting more. After a slow start to the 2015 season, Smith graded positively in all but three games in the Chief’s 11-game winning streak. His elusiveness (which earned a 91.7 run grade in 2015, seventh among quarterbacks) has been a nice aspect of the Chiefs’ running game, as well as buffered against some of Kansas City’s shaky offensive line play since he took over in 2013 (although he was responsible for nine of his hurries last season). It will be interesting to see if the Chiefs can reach the upper echelon of the AFC with Smith as their quarterback, as they appear committed to him at least for the near future.

West and Ware did well, but this is Charles’ job

Running backs: Third

The amazing aspect of the Chiefs’ winning streak a year ago was the fact that it began after the season-ending ACL injury to Charles, who has been their best player offensively since 2010. While Charcandrick West and Spencer Ware graded positively as runners in his stead, our Mike Renner aptly wrote “It’s all about Charles (in 2016), though, when he’s healthy; no running back slips through tighter creases along the line of scrimmage, and Charles is a threat to take it to the house from anywhere on the field.” The big-play threat Charles represents has helped the Chiefs curb the offensive difficulties associated with lacking a big play threat on the outside (until Jeremy Maclin arrived in 2015).

Maclin and Kelce form an above-average 1-2 punch

Receiving corps: 28th

The addition of Maclin helped a wide receiver group that was historically inept in 2014 by hauling in 87 of 120 targets in the regular season, dropping just one pass and scoring eight touchdowns (good for a 115.6 passer rating on his targets). Having Maclin on the outside freed up space for tight end Travis Kelce over the middle as well. Kelce, while showing a decline in his overall grade from 2014 to 2015 – mostly due to run-blocking — was still a very dynamic tight end. His 16 forced missed tackles tied for the most among tight ends last season, while his 541 yards after the catch were second. Vying for snaps alongside Maclin are incumbents Albert Wilson, Chris Conley and De’Anthony Thomas, along with newcomers Rod Streater, Demarcus Robinson and Tyreek Hill. Streater is an especially interesting case – with the Raiders in 2013 he had the 26th-best receiving grade in 773 snaps, with a respectable 1.80 yards per route run despite significant limitations at the quarterback position that season.

Plenty of faces to replace two big names

Offensive line: 17th

The Chiefs lost guards Ben Grubbs and Jeff Allen this offseason, while acquiring tackle Mitchell Schwartz to pair with 2013 first overall pick Eric Fisher. Fisher has struggled playing both right and left tackle since arriving in Kansas City, although his grades have increased each year. If he can continue to improve, he and Schwartz (the sixth-highest-graded tackle in the league last season) can be a formidable tackle duo. Mitch Morse held his own last season at center, committing just one penalty, finishing 16th in overall run-blocking grades and 14th in pass-blocking efficiency (97.2) among centers. Guard remains an issue, with unproven players Zach Fulton, Larry Duvernay-Tardif, Jordan Devey, Jah Reid, Jarrod Pughsley and rookie Parker Ehinger looking to replace the production lost by the departures of Grubbs and Allen.

A strength continues to be a strength

Front-seven: Seventh

The Chiefs’ front seven has been a strength of the team for the entire Andy Reid era, and with the return of Johnson, Hali and Howard, as well as the selection of rookie Chris Jones in the second round of the draft, the group appears set to carry the defense again in 2016. Superstar edge defender Justin Houston had knee surgery in the offseason, which is a concern, since 2014 first-round pick Dee Ford has yet to fully emerge as a third competent edge rusher. As PFF’s Ben Stockwell wrote, the Chiefs’ “defensive line is a force against the run, but is perhaps the most ‘old school’ 3-4 D-Line, offering very little in terms of a pass-rushing force.” This makes the healthy return of Houston, the league’s second-most productive 3-4 outside linebacker last season (with a pass-rushing productivity of 15.3), or the development of Ford (with a pass-rushing productivity of 10.0 last season), an issue of ultimate importance for the Chiefs as the 2016 approaches.

Berry’s big return continues

Secondary: 13th

The return of Eric Berry from Hodgkin’s lymphoma last season was one of the best stories in NFL history. His play on the field earned him PFF’s Comeback Player of the Year award, as well as the team’s franchise tag this offseason. He and Ron Parker, who doubles as a slot cornerback in sub packages, provide the Chiefs with a solid duo at the back end of their defense. Cornerback is another issue, where the narrative surrounding Marcus Peters’ production (nine interceptions) last season overshadowed some of his warts (1,057 yards and eight touchdowns allowed in coverage), as well as the lack of proven talent to replace the loss of Sean Smith. Phillip Gaines (67.9) appears ready to return from an ACL injury, and the 2016 draft brought the Chiefs Keivarae Russell, Eric Murray and D. J. White. However, Smith (the second-highest-graded coverage corner in 2014) was an established corner, whose steadiness in 2015 allowed for some growing pains on the part of Peters. The Chiefs were not the same team defensively when he missed the first three games last season, meaning they will not only need steady improvement from Peters, but also some of the aforementioned newcomers to emerge, in order to ensure a level of play commiserate to that of 2015, where they used six defensive backs more than any other team in the entire NFL.

[milkman]

Pretty good evaluation overall, though I question their assessment of the value of Grubbs and Allen, and the line play overall, along with their claim that Smith was responsible for only 9 pressures.

[milkman]

They do, however mention the fact that Charles can get through smaller creases than any RB in the league, which is something we as a fan group have been saying for a number of years when discussing our belief that he is the best in the game.

[Simply Red]

They do, however mention the fact that Charles can get through smaller creases than any RB in the league, which is something we as a fan group have been saying for a number of years when discussing our belief that he is the best in the game.

did anything ever happen to Knile? Are they keeping him, or? I don't recall hearing anything.

[milkman]

did anything ever happen to Knile? Are they keeping him, or? I don't recall hearing anything.

He's still on the roster at this point, but I can't see him making it to the season opener.

He might have some trade value as the preseason unfolds, but in IMO, he and Albert Wilson are among the final cuts.

[Simply Red]

He's still on the roster at this point, but I can't see him making it to the season opener.

He might have some trade value as the preseason unfolds, but in IMO, he and Albert Wilson are among the final cuts.

I see, maybe he could work out still, somewhere, I wish him the best, he wasn't entirely worthless here, just mostly.

[jjchieffan]

I agree with you about Grubbs value to the team. I'm pretty sure that he got hurt pretty early on and spent most of the season on IR. What I remember of his play before the injury, he looked washed up. No loss there. Just a trade that didn't pan out. You can't say you lost the production of someone who never produced for the team.

[Simply Red]

I really like Ware - I hope he gets some decent PT this yr.

[jjchieffan]

I see, maybe he could work out still, somewhere, I wish him the best, he wasn't entirely worthless here, just mostly.


Trade him to Dallas. Jerry Jones loves Arkansas running backs.

[Easy 6]

Maclin and Kelce form an elite 1-2 punch, not merely above average

[Chiefshrink]

I really like Ware - I hope he gets some decent PT this yr.

This will be the early 70's Dolphin running game reincarnated if Reid is wise with Charles to protect and extend his career which would be a very fun entertaining thing to see. If it does let's just hope Charles won't be like Morris bitching for more touches.

[Bowser]

He's still on the roster at this point, but I can't see him making it to the season opener.

He might have some trade value as the preseason unfolds, but in IMO, he and Albert Wilson are among the final cuts.

Agreed. We actually have depth at receiver now (depth for us, anyway), and I don't think Wilson survives.

I think we can all agree that there is no role for DAT on this team now that Tyreek Hill is here, yes?

[Bowser]

And I'm worried about out defense. Pass rush is going to be a concern with Houston hobbled, and I'm afraid that will expose our young corners.

[Chiefshrink]

I think we can all agree that there is no role for DAT on this team now that Tyreek Hill is here, yes?

Most definitely. DAT is soft and Hill is a muscular water bug that will break tackles and impossible to corral most of the time.;)

[milkman]

Trade him to Dallas. Jerry Jones loves Arkansas running backs.

Unless Zeke Elliot faces some league suspension for these domestic abuse accusations, I doubt the Boys would have anyh interest.

Agreed. We actually have depth at receiver now (depth for us, anyway), and I don't think Wilson survives.

I think we can all agree that there is no role for DAT on this team now that Tyreek Hill is here, yes?

Agreed.

[Chiefshrink]

And I'm worried about out defense. Pass rush is going to be a concern with Houston hobbled, and I'm afraid that will expose our young corners.

Young guys have to step up some time(Ford and Gaines). We have no other choices at this point.

[milkman]

This will be the early 70's Dolphin running game reincarnated if Reid is wise with Charles to protect and extend his career which would be a very fun entertaining thing to see. If it does let's just hope Charles won't be like Morris bitching for more touches.

Charles is approaching the downside of his career, and I don't think trying to save RBs actually works.

You take advantage of his physical ability now, because whether he gets 150 touches or 225, he will still hit that wall in the next season or 2.

[SAUTO]

Charles is approaching the downside of his career, and I don't think trying to save RBs actually works.

You take advantage of his physical ability now, because whether he gets 150 touches or 225, he will still hit that wall in the next season or 2.

Yep, ride him till he's done.

[Meatloaf]

Agreed. We actually have depth at receiver now (depth for us, anyway), and I don't think Wilson survives.

I think we can all agree that there is no role for DAT on this team now that Tyreek Hill is here, yes?

Wow, you fellas really seem down on Wilson. In my mind, he was EASILY the second best receiver on our team last year. IMO he runs good routes, gets open and doesn't drop too many balls. Yeah, he didn't "lay out" for a couple of balls (again, I claim he was protecting his hammy as I think he was nursing that thing all year).

Sure, Conley MIGHT have a higher upside, but based on performance to date, Wilson is a MUCH better WR. Heck, his avg yds/catch was better than Maclin's and his YAC was very impressive. You all mean to tell me that we've acquired 4 guys BETTER than Wilson? That'd be remarkable.

[jjchieffan]

You're probably right about saving Charles Milkman. I like to think back to how long Marcus Allen played due to the faiders under using him. But in truth, he was the exception, not the rule.

[staylor26]

He's still on the roster at this point, but I can't see him making it to the season opener.

He might have some trade value as the preseason unfolds, but in IMO, he and Albert Wilson are among the final cuts.

Albert Wilson is not going to get cut, nor should he be. I guarantee you that doesn't happen.

[Easy 6]

Yep, ride him till he's done.

Agreed, just like an Apache and his horse... ride it til it dies, then eat it

[milkman]

Wow, you fellas really seem down on Wilson. In my mind, he was EASILY the second best receiver on our team last year. IMO he runs good routes, gets open and doesn't drop too many balls. Yeah, he didn't "lay out" for a couple of balls (again, I claim he was protecting his hammy as I think he was nursing that thing all year).

Sure, Conley MIGHT have a higher upside, but based on performance to date, Wilson is a MUCH better WR. Heck, his avg yds/catch was better than Maclin's and his YAC was very impressive. You all mean to tell me that we've acquired 4 guys BETTER than Wilson? That'd be remarkable.

Conley, Tyreek Hill and DaMarcus Robinson all have far higher upside, and Rod Streater can also be a far more explosive weapon if he can return to his preinjury 2013 form.

Albert Wilson looks like a JAG ceiling guy.

[milkman]

Albert Wilson is not going to get cut, nor should he be. I guarantee you that doesn't happen.

He is a jag, and will likely never be more than a jag.

[Chiefshrink]

Charles is approaching the downside of his career, and I don't think trying to save RBs actually works.

You take advantage of his physical ability now, because whether he gets 150 touches or 225, he will still hit that wall in the next season or 2.

I get your point and agree BUT what Reid was forced to do last year when Charles went down was open up more of the playbook and Reid was surprised by joy when he found out how talented West and Ware can be when he did this. Our record was 1-5 when Charles went down. Our offense was too predictable for defenses with Charles being keyed on with teams stacking the box.

I say keep the same play book open that West and Ware used after Charles went down with Charles in the mix making it very difficult for D's to figure out who is getting the ball especially when you have to factor in Maclin,Kelce Streater/Williams if they produce and especially with Hill being a potentially faster and tougher slot version of Wes Welker. How fun would that be to watch !!:thumb:

[Chiefshrink]

He is a jag, and will likely never be more than a jag.

Agreed. I have said this all along and especially when he didn't lay out for long pass last year in the playoffs. Still miffs me:#

[staylor26]

He is a jag, and will likely never be more than a jag.

He might be, but there's no reason to cut him just yet. He can still turn out to be a solid slot WR, where he's a much better fit. Maclin, Conley, and Wilson have been working out all offseason together and developing chemistry.

[Buehler445]

I agree with MM. Grubbs and Allen are no big losses.

The playbook was definitely the difference in the first 6 vs the last 10 games. Hopefully Reid keeps the book open.

[Meatloaf]

Conley, Tyreek Hill and DaMarcus Robinson all have far higher upside, and Rod Streater can also be a far more explosive weapon if he can return to his preinjury 2013 form.

Albert Wilson looks like a JAG ceiling guy.

Well, we know Streater can play in the league as he has some history. Who knows about Conley, Hill and Robinson -- they're pretty much unknowns. Wilson won't ever be All-Pro, but he has demonstrated that he can play in the league. Hey, if those guys all turn out better than Wilson, then I'll be one happy camper.

[Bowser]

Wow, you fellas really seem down on Wilson. In my mind, he was EASILY the second best receiver on our team last year. IMO he runs good routes, gets open and doesn't drop too many balls. Yeah, he didn't "lay out" for a couple of balls (again, I claim he was protecting his hammy as I think he was nursing that thing all year).

Sure, Conley MIGHT have a higher upside, but based on performance to date, Wilson is a MUCH better WR. Heck, his avg yds/catch was better than Maclin's and his YAC was very impressive. You all mean to tell me that we've acquired 4 guys BETTER than Wilson? That'd be remarkable.

Albert Wilson is not going to get cut, nor should he be. I guarantee you that doesn't happen.

I don't "hate" Wilson, I just don't think he's anything special. Here are his stats from last year -

35 rec, 451 yds, 2 TDs, 34 yds/GM

That's pretty pedestrian. Those numbers could have been literally anybody on any roster. I don't think Wilson brings any type of niche to the team, and if Streater and Robinson produce like they seem to be able to, they will more then make up for Wilson not being here.

If Wilson makes the team, he hopefully will have a hell of a camp and preseason. Probably means he's one of Andy's guys, as well.

And just because I have the page up, here are his two year career stats -

51 rec, 711 yds, 2TDs, 27 yds/GM,

He's JAG.

http://www.nfl.com/player/albertwilson/2550272/careerstats

[kcchiefsus]

The DL offers very little in pass rushing? These guys don't know shit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't "hate" Wilson, I just don't think he's anything special. Here are his stats from last year -

35 rec, 451 yds, 2 TDs, 34 yds/GM

That's pretty pedestrian. Those numbers could have been literally anybody on any roster. I don't think Wilson brings any type of niche to the team, and if Streater and Robinson produce like they seem to be able to, they will more then make up for Wilson not being here.

If Wilson makes the team, he hopefully will have a hell of a camp and preseason. Probably means he's one of Andy's guys, as well.

And just because I have the page up, here are his two year career stats -

51 rec, 711 yds, 2TDs, 27 yds/GM,

He's JAG.

http://www.nfl.com/player/albertwilson/2550272/careerstats

Persepctive:

BOTH Donnie Avery and Dexter McCluster bettered those marks in 2013.

[O.city]

Wilson is also a 2nd year udfa. Showed improvement from year to year.

That paired with the supposed complication of Reid's offense, I don't see a rookie overtaking him

[Bowser]

Persepctive:

BOTH Donnie Avery and Dexter McCluster bettered those marks in 2013.

Lol, wow.

Welp, there you have it.

[Chiefshrink]

The DL offers very little in pass rushing? These guys don't know shit.

Well, they do IF Houston doesn't come back 100% and Ford and Gaines play like JAGs. I think Chris Jones will be our saving grace regardless regardless of whatever scenario occurs. We know he has a big enough jock to handle the job:D

[O.city]

Persepctive:

BOTH Donnie Avery and Dexter McCluster bettered those marks in 2013.

I also think you've gotta look at the situation.

The #2wr here is always going to be option 4 or 5. Behind maclin, kelce, Charles (rbs). Unless they start throwing it more, the second wr isn't gonna put up big numbers.

[Chiefshrink]

Persepctive:

BOTH Donnie Avery and Dexter McCluster bettered those marks in 2013.

Wilson is also a 2nd year udfa. Showed improvement from year to year.

That paired with the supposed complication of Reid's offense, I don't see a rookie overtaking him

And how effective were McCluster and Avery last year for their teams? Heck, how effective and significant was Wilson to our offense last year that actually needed that extra punch when Maclin got hurt at the end of the year. Yeah Wilson was effective and significant when needed last year.Not !! :rolleyes:

[O.city]

If the hope is that wilson, as a 2nd year udfa wr, is going to be a replacement for maclin going into new england, well, I'm not sure what to say to that

[Chiefshrink]

I also think you've gotta look at the situation.

The #2wr here is always going to be option 4 or 5. Behind maclin, kelce, Charles (rbs). Unless they start throwing it more, the second wr isn't gonna put up big numbers.

Oh trust me, if Wilson was all that Reid would have made sure he got the ball much more often when Mac went down.

Bottom line: Wilson got exposed for his lack of talent and especially gamership when needed last year. Dorsey has decided to move on. Just watch.

[Bowser]

If you're really pushing hard for Wilson, the one stat you can lean on is his percentage of first downs per catch. He's pretty decent in that area.

But again, he's not a guy that brings something special and unique to the team.

[O.city]

Oh trust me, if Wilson was all that Reid would have made sure he got the ball much more often when Mac went down.

Bottom line: Wilson got exposed for his lack of talent and especially gamership when needed last year. Dorsey has decided to move on. Just watch.

Yes, his 5 catches for 60 yards and a td against new england really showed he doesn't belong

[Chiefshrink]

If the hope is that wilson, as a 2nd year udfa wr, is going to be a replacement for maclin going into new england, well, I'm not sure what to say to that

There are no excuses and why GMs/coaches want their No.2(if they can get that and what Reid/Dorsey are trying to do with Streater/Williams if possible) to have potential 1b talent if needed. Wilson barely has No.3 ability if that. And why Wilson exposed his lack of talent and gamership last year. He did not step up when he had the chance.

[DaneMcCloud]

The Chiefs will keep six receivers. Barring injury, Maclin, Conley, Robertson and Hill are locks, IMO.

That leaves 9 WR's fighting for the final two spots.

Da’Ron Brown, Seantavius Jones, Rod Streater, Albert Wilson, De’Anthony Thomas, Mike Williams, Mitch Mathews, Frankie Hammond and Kashif Moore.

Camp and preseason will be especially important for those players.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I also think you've gotta look at the situation.

The #2wr here is always going to be option 4 or 5. Behind maclin, kelce, Charles (rbs). Unless they start throwing it more, the second wr isn't gonna put up big numbers.

That's exactly the point.

As Bowser said, those numbers could have been literally anybody on any roster.

There's nothing special about Wilson.

[O.city]

There's no doubt wilson isn't a number 1 guy. I don't think he's an outside guy to be honest either. But having him in the slot is something his abilities have shown he should be able to do well.

[Meatloaf]

And how effective were McCluster and Avery last year for their teams? Heck, how effective and significant was Wilson to our offense last year that actually needed that extra punch when Maclin got hurt at the end of the year. Yeah Wilson was effective and significant when needed last year.Not !! :rolleyes:

Seems like Conley's getting a pass here. What'd he do that impressed (other than having a great combine)? Hey, I'm not down on Conley, but to be fair, he didn't show much last year, did he? Goodness, by pretty much any measure, Wilson was the second best WR last year on an 11-5 team. Surely he's more than a JAG. C'mon guys, he's at least a JAG+. :toast:

[O.city]

That's exactly the point.

As Bowser said, those numbers could have been literally anybody on any roster.

There's nothing special about Wilson.

Special? No, he's not gonna be maclin.

But you aren't going to have very many of those.

But having 500 yards receiving in his 2nd year in the league as an udfa obviously shows th guy belongs.

I'm all about upgrading spots on the roster constantly so if someone is better, sure.

But as we know with reliability being an issue, especially with out qb, I doubt we see a rookie or 1st year chief overtake wilson this year

[DaneMcCloud]

I also think you've gotta look at the situation.

The #2wr here is always going to be option 4 or 5. Behind maclin, kelce, Charles (rbs). Unless they start throwing it more, the second wr isn't gonna put up big numbers.


Regardless of whether or not the #2 WR approaches a 1,000 yards per season, the Chiefs need a better option at the #2 spot than Wilson.

[Chiefshrink]

Yes, his 5 catches for 60 yards and a td against new england really showed he doesn't belong

Again, mop up stats that didn't matter. When we lost our pass rush(Hali and Houston playing hurt) and especially Maclin going down. Bellichek knew he was safe because he knew Wilson sure wasn't going to hurt him. :shrug:

[O.city]

The Chiefs will keep six receivers. Barring injury, Maclin, Conley, Robertson and Hill are locks, IMO.

That leaves 9 WR's fighting for the final two spots.

Da’Ron Brown, Seantavius Jones, Rod Streater, Albert Wilson, De’Anthony Thomas, Mike Williams, Mitch Mathews, Frankie Hammond and Kashif Moore.

Camp and preseason will be especially important for those players.

I don't see any way they keep Thomas on the active roster after last year. Hammond is probably out, with Matthews, brown and moore to the ps.

[O.city]

Regardless of whether or not the #2 WR approaches a 1,000 yards per season, the Chiefs need a better option at the #2 spot than Wilson.

Probably.

I'd imagine they're hoping that's conley. I'm skeptical, but that seems to be the direction

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't see any way they keep Thomas on the active roster after last year. Hammond is probably out, with Matthews, brown and moore to the ps.

The final two spots, at least at this point in time, probably come down to Wilson, Streater, Williams and Brown.

I can see Matthews on the PS and maybe Brown, if he doesn't make the 53 this year.

[Simply Red]

Lol, wow.

Welp, there you have it.


I really pulled for Avery too, he had a great attitude, never complained, just wasn't great, only decent. Oh well - onward and upward.

[Meatloaf]

Regardless of whether or not the #2 WR approaches a 1,000 yards per season, the Chiefs need a better option at the #2 spot than Wilson.

I don't think anyone would argue with that. Heck, I'll go you one better. Is our #2 WR the weakest position on the team? If not, what is?

[Chiefshrink]

Seems like Conley's getting a pass here. What'd he do that impressed (other than having a great combine)? Hey, I'm not down on Conley, but to be fair, he didn't show much last year, did he? Goodness, by pretty much any measure, Wilson was the second best WR last year on an 11-5 team. Surely he's more than a JAG. C'mon guys, he's at least a JAG+. :toast:

Respectfully disagree here. Conley is a pure rookie(who doesn't know the playbook near what Wilson did) that has far more athletic potential. Which tells you that after your rookie year when given the chance to start you better know your manure and produce. Wilson was a JAG last year that didn't stand out as a No.2 all season and especially when needed at the most crucial time.

[DaneMcCloud]

Probably.

I'd imagine they're hoping that's conley. I'm skeptical, but that seems to be the direction

I think the Chiefs are probably skeptical at this point as well or they wouldn't have taken two WR's in the draft and signed UDFA's to compete.

I doubt they give up on him in Year 2 but if he doesn't show marked improvement in 2016, 2017 will be critical for him as a Chief.

[Chiefshrink]

I don't think anyone would argue with that. Heck, I'll go you one better. Is our #2 WR the weakest position on the team? If not, what is?

QB, if Smith goes down. Murray and Hogan are unproven. Don't get me wrong I like both guys but game snaps are much different than practice snaps. Bray gets cut IMHO.

[O.city]

The final two spots, at least at this point in time, probably come down to Wilson, Streater, Williams and Brown.

I can see Matthews on the PS and maybe Brown, if he doesn't make the 53 this year.

With williams missing as much time as he has, he's got an uphill battle.

[Meatloaf]

I think the Chiefs are probably skeptical at this point as well or they wouldn't have taken two WR's in the draft and signed UDFA's to compete.

I doubt they give up on him in Year 2 but if he doesn't show marked improvement in 2016, 2017 will be critical for him as a Chief.

I'm thinking that they drafted Hill as more of a KR/PR guy than a WR. But, the fact that we were at least rumored to select Treadwell, and then drafted Robinson and went after Streater and Williams, well, to me that indicates that our own GM felt we need to upgrade our WR corps.

[Chiefshrink]

With williams missing as much time as he has, he's got an uphill battle.

You are most definitely correct but with as much uphill as he has his talent is that elite to overcome it IF his head is in the right place.

[Chiefshrink]

I'm thinking that they drafted Hill as more of a KR/PR guy than a WR.

He will be more than KR/PR if I'm the coach. Like I said, he is a faster,quicker,stronger Wes Welker type with hands. Just watch.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm thinking that they drafted Hill as more of a KR/PR guy than a WR. But, the fact that we were at least rumored to select Treadwell, and then drafted Robinson and went after Streater and Williams, well, to me that indicates that our own GM felt we need to upgrade our WR corps.

According to Terez Paylor, Hill was the most explosive offensive player in the offseason workouts.

If that continues once they're in pads, he may push himself into the starting lineup early, which IMO, would be phenomenal (from a football standpoint, only).

[Easy 6]

According to Terez Paylor, Hill was the most explosive offensive player in the offseason workouts.

If that continues once they're in pads, he may push himself into the starting lineup early, which IMO, would be phenomenal (from a football standpoint, only).

The guy ****ed up really bad no doubt, but he has committed to being a changed man and iirc they're actually still together... so I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt

Now I just want him to go out there and strangle the other team

[Meatloaf]

According to Terez Paylor, Hill was the most explosive offensive player in the offseason workouts.

If that continues once they're in pads, he may push himself into the starting lineup early, which IMO, would be phenomenal (from a football standpoint, only).

Yup, would love to see the kid use this opportunity to turn his life around. Can't imagine that he'd be a starter (other than as a returner), as apparently Andy's system is pretty complicated....but I could see him in a specialty DAT-type role.

[Buehler445]

Persepctive:

BOTH Donnie Avery and Dexter McCluster bettered those marks in 2013.

Ugh. Could have done without knowing that little factoid. Thanks, Dick. :D

[DaneMcCloud]

Can't imagine that he'd be a starter (other than as a returner), as apparently Andy's system is pretty complicated

I believe this to be grossly overstated.

McCluster had 53 catches for 500+ yards, Bowe had 750+, Avery had nearly 600, Charles had nearly 700, all in Reid's inaugural season.

Maclin had nearly 800 yards and DeSean Jackson nearly 900 in their rookie seasons.

It's all about talent and readiness for the pro game.

[Meatloaf]

I believe this to be grossly overstated.

McCluster had 53 catches for 500+ yards, Bowe had 750+, Avery had nearly 600, Charles had nearly 700, all in Reid's inaugural season.

Maclin had nearly 800 yards and DeSean Jackson nearly 900 in their rookie seasons.

It's all about talent and readiness for the pro game.

Appreciate you providing some stats to back your claim; always nice to see something substantive. And, you may be correct, but those stats were, for the most part, for NFL veterans who had been around for awhile. That's gotta be worth something when learning a new system. Hill is a wet-behind-the-ears rookie. In my view, IF he makes it, he'll be a returner and maybe a DAT type guy who only needs to learn a limited playset.

Honestly, I have no idea if Reid's system is more complicated than most. I've heard it said by many that it is, but that's certainly not definitive.

[Chiefshrink]

Appreciate you providing some stats to back your claim; always nice to see something substantive. And, you may be correct, but those stats were, for the most part, for NFL veterans who had been around for awhile. That's gotta be worth something when learning a new system. Hill is a wet-behind-the-ears rookie. In my view, IF he makes it, he'll be a returner and maybe a DAT type guy who only needs to learn a limited playset.

Honestly, I have no idea if Reid's system is more complicated than most. I've heard it said by many that it is, but that's certainly not definitive.

That will be a very small "if" if not invisible. :D

[Mr. Laz]

Most definitely. DAT is soft and Hill is a muscular water bug that will break tackles and impossible to corral most of the time.;)
people keep saying this

First it was McCluster that was going to do it, then DaT ... now Hill.


Still waiting for the gadget guy that Reid's offense really needs.


We probably should put Ware in the backfield and make Charles the gadget guy some this year. It would be pretty dam hard for defenses to tackle Charles if he get the ball already on the edge.

[Bowser]

I've said this before -

Alex in shotgun with Ware and Charles next to him. Streater and Kelce split wide with Maclin in the slot.

https://media.giphy.com/media/IUjaKjjPPbGaQ/giphy.gif

[Meatloaf]

That will be a very small "if" if not invisible. :D

Nice. Hey, the kid impressed in OTAs, but that was in shorts. He wouldn't be the first guy that CP fell in love with who never did a thing. But, I'll give you one thing, the kid has SPEED like no one we've ever had. That's worth something right there!

[Easy 6]

That does sound pretty sweet, Bowser

Thunder and Lightning backfield

Kelce mismatching on a corner

Streeter on the other side

And a consummate route runner in the slot

[Chiefshrink]

people keep saying this

First it was McCluster that was going to do it, then DaT ... now Hill.


Still waiting for the gadget guy that Reid's offense really needs.



Here you go.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/blSxKdR3o5E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Bowser]

That does sound pretty sweet, Bowser

Thunder and Lightning backfield

Kelce mismatching on a corner

Streeter on the other side

And a consummate route runner in the slot

I'd run that combo and formation out on second and three or shorter. The defense would have literally no idea what they are about to do, and everyone I listed could be a threat to get the ball. If someone gets double teamed (Maclin or Kelce), one of the others are more than capable of gashing open a defense (giving Streater the benefit of the doubt here, of course). Play the run, get burned in the passing game. Drop back and play Cover2, get gashed by Ware or Charles. Hell, you can wheel route or screen it to Charles there, too.

So. Many. Options.

[Chiefshrink]

people keep saying this

First it was McCluster that was going to do it, then DaT ... now Hill.


Still waiting for the gadget guy that Reid's offense really needs.


We probably should put Ware in the backfield and make Charles the gadget guy some this year. It would be pretty dam hard for defenses to tackle Charles if he get the ball already on the edge.

McCluster couldn't cut if you gave him a pair of scissors and DAT is softer than a baby's butt.

[RunKC]

Albert Wilson is not going to get cut, nor should he be. I guarantee you that doesn't happen.

Agree with staylor here.

No way is he cut with us having no idea what Streater or Robinson can do. I think this is his last year though.

[DaneMcCloud]

He wouldn't be the first guy that CP fell in love with who never did a thing.

I don't think there's anyone here that "loves" Hill.

As fans, we're stuck with him so hopefully, he's worth the trouble.

[Meatloaf]

I don't think there's anyone here that "loves" Hill.

As fans, we're stuck with him so hopefully, he's worth the trouble.

Yeah, as I recall, you didn't care for the pick. But, I think you know what I'm saying about sometimes CP expectations being maybe a bit high sometimes? And I'm certainly not criticizing that, as that's part of the fun of being a fan.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if this guy didn't make the club as his return skills look elite.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, as I recall, you didn't care for the pick. But, I think you know what I'm saying about sometimes CP expectations being maybe a bit high sometimes? And I'm certainly not criticizing that, as that's part of the fun of being a fan.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if this guy didn't make the club as his return skills look elite.

He'll make the 53 without a doubt. Dorsey doesn't cut his draft picks, especially a pick like this in they've invested so much.

My point was more to Paylor's (and others) observations during the offseason workouts. If his explosiveness remains (as well as his ball tracking and skills) once the pads are on, I seriously doubt they'll be able to keep him out of the starting lineup.

4.24 speed is insane.

[Meatloaf]

He'll make the 53 without a doubt. Dorsey doesn't cut his draft picks, especially a pick like this in they've invested so much.

My point was more to Paylor's (and others) observations during the offseason workouts. If his explosiveness remains (as well as his ball tracking and skills) once the pads are on, I seriously doubt they'll be able to keep him out of the starting lineup.

4.24 speed is insane.

Got it. And yeah, that speed is unreal. I can't think of who we've ever had that's anywhere near that fast. I think Joe Delaney had a real good 40 time, Charles is 4.38....but that's not even close to 4.24!

[RunKC]

I've said this before -

Alex in shotgun with Ware and Charles next to him. Streater and Kelce split wide with Maclin in the slot.

https://media.giphy.com/media/IUjaKjjPPbGaQ/giphy.gif

Oh I like that.

Also like Charles and Hill in the backfield split out the flat on each side, Maclin and Conley out wide and Kelce in the slot.

That's a money play for Kelce. Charles and Hill pulling the ILB's to the side=open in the middle

[Chiefshrink]

I don't think there's anyone here that "loves" Hill.

As fans, we're stuck with him so hopefully, he's worth the trouble.

Depends on how you define love. I love his athletic potential.:D

[Hammock Parties]

I've said this before -

Alex in shotgun with Ware and Charles next to him. Streater and Kelce split wide with Maclin in the slot.


Meh. There is not a defense in the league that is scared with Streater and Kelce split wide.

You're basically begging the D to defend nothing but short routes.

Maclin needs to be outside in this offense more often than not so there is at least the threat of a deep pass.

[Bowser]

Meh. There is not a defense in the league that is scared with Streater and Kelce split wide.

You're basically begging the D to defend nothing but short routes.

Maclin needs to be outside in this offense more often than not so there is at least the threat of a deep pass.

Maclin is a terror in the slot, and he would kill in that setup. You're right, they would look to defend the short zones. That's when you would have Maclin run a streak down the seam and have Charles wheel out down the numbers to Maclin's side with Kelce out in front blocking the corner.

Or just say piss on all of that and have Ware or Charles run the draw, especially on short to-go situations.

[Bowser]

The thing Clay is getting at is that none of this is going to matter if we don't stretch the field, and he's right. Andy HAS to open it up even more than he did the last ten games last year. It's essential that we get the defense playing honest across the board and not waiting on Alex's patented dump off or screen.

[DaneMcCloud]

The thing Clay is getting at is that none of this is going to matter if we don't stretch the field, and he's right. Andy HAS to open it up even more than he did the last ten games last year. It's essential that we get the defense playing honest across the board and not waiting on Alex's patented dump off or screen.

Hence Hill's 4.24 speed.

[Bowser]

Hence Hill's 4.24 speed.

Here's hoping Hill can be what they were hoping Dex and DAT were going to be...

And RUNKC was right...switch out Hill with anyone in that lineup minus Maclin and Charles., and you've got a big play waiting to happen (either way, really).

[OnTheWarpath15]

Here's hoping Hill can be what they were hoping Dex and DAT were going to be...

Well, they were never gonna be shit - so I hope Hill is way more than that.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Here's hoping Hill can be what they were hoping Dex and DAT were going to be...

And RUNKC was right...switch out Hill with anyone in that lineup minus Maclin and Charles., and you've got a big play waiting to happen (either way, really).

I hope Hill is DeSean Jackson II

[Bowser]

Well, they were never gonna be shit - so I hope Hill is way more than that.

LMAO

Well you and I knew that. :D

And are you just begging TEX to come in here and get all fired up over McCluster again???

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well you and I knew that. :D

And are you just begging TEX to come in here and get all fired up over McCluster again???

Sure, why not. Not like I spend a ton of time here anymore.

I don't take the shits, I just disturb them. /Deadpool

[Bowser]

I hope Hill is DeSean Jackson II

Just looked it up....Hill is 5'9. I was thinking he was that 5'6-5'7 guy they love. And Desean is only 5'10. :hmmm:

[Bowser]

Sure, why not. Not like I spend a ton of time here anymore.

I don't take the shits, I just disturb them. /Deadpool

LMAO

*edit - post more, fucker!

[SAUTO]

Well you and I knew that. :D

And are you just begging TEX to come in here and get all fired up over McCluster again???

Guarantee TEX has kissed mccluster's cock, at the very least. But hey tex nttatwwt, you do you boy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Guarantee TEX has kissed mccluster's cock, at the very least. But hey tex nttatwwt, you do you boy.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Just looked it up....Hill is 5'9. I was thinking he was that 5'6-5'7 guy they love. And Desean is only 5'10. :hmmm:

He's also 185 and thickly built, so he's not going to hit the turf after being hit with a pinky finger.

[ThaVirus]

Hill ran a 4.24 hand-timed?

[Meatloaf]

Hill ran a 4.24 hand-timed?

Yup. Ran it at his pro-day and apparently it was hand and electronically timed.

[ThaVirus]

Yup. Ran it at his pro-day and apparently it was hand and electronically timed.


4.24 electronically timed?

[staylor26]

4.24 electronically timed?

When you see the guy on tape, he's clearly one of the fastest guys you'll ever see step foot on a football field.

[Meatloaf]

4.24 electronically timed?

http://www.pistolsfiringblog.com/tyreek-hill-runs-blazing-40-yard-dash-at-pro-day/

[planetdoc]

Just looked it up....Hill is 5'9. I was thinking he was that 5'6-5'7 guy they love. And Desean is only 5'10. :hmmm:

nfldraftscout has his pro day measurement as 5'8.1'' (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=132274&draftyear=2016&genpos=WR)

desean jackson has about 1.5'' on him.

[DaneMcCloud]

nfldraftscout has his pro day measurement as 5'8.1'' (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=132274&draftyear=2016&genpos=WR)

desean jackson has about 1.5'' on him.

And NFL.con has him at 5'10.

Which one do you think is correct?

The internet know it all or the NFL?

[planetdoc]

And NFL.con has him at 5'10.

Which one do you think is correct?

The internet know it all or the NFL?

nfl.com does not keep accurate weights and measurements.

example: Dontarie Poe is listed at 346lbs (his combine weight), when he really weighs ~ 330lbs. (link1 (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article34697007.html), 2 (https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dontari-poe-american-hero-gives-barbecue-lose-weight-134441216.html))

Jaye Howard is listed as 301lbs, when he really weighs ~ 330lbs (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article29875651.html).

[DaneMcCloud]

nfl.com does not keep accurate weights and measurements.

example: Dontarie Poe is listed at 346lbs (his combine weight), when he really weighs ~ 330lbs. (link1 (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article34697007.html), 2 (https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dontari-poe-american-hero-gives-barbecue-lose-weight-134441216.html))

Jaye Howard is listed as 301lbs, when he really weighs ~ 330lbs (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article29875651.html)
:facepalm:

[Chiefshrink]

I hope Hill is DeSean Jackson II

without the Diva effect let's hope:grovel:

[planetdoc]

:facepalm:

Hill was also listed as 5'8'' when he was arrested on 12/11/2014. Interestingly enough he weighed 195lbs at that time.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1378706/pages/tyreek-hill-arrest-report-p2-normal.gif

"Hill did say that he was being arrested for being black and she was white."

Hill chokes a cherokee indian, and then becomes a KC chief.

well, at least UWA used Hill's mugshot pic for his student id card. lol.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

I'd run that combo and formation out on second and three or shorter. The defense would have literally no idea what they are about to do, and everyone I listed could be a threat to get the ball. If someone gets double teamed (Maclin or Kelce), one of the others are more than capable of gashing open a defense (giving Streater the benefit of the doubt here, of course). Play the run, get burned in the passing game. Drop back and play Cover2, get gashed by Ware or Charles. Hell, you can wheel route or screen it to Charles there, too.

So. Many. Options.

Sub Streeter, move Maclin back out, sub West in for JC and put JC back in the Pistol-back formation. Have our 5 best offensive players on the field.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Llllloaded loaded