Bob Sutton isn't the problem

[chiefzilla1501]

Hearing a lot of criticism of Sutton. Here's something interesting to consider. Sutton has been here 4 years. He's had 3 stretches where he's had to play some really bad cornerbacks:
-8 games with Marcus Cooper in 2013
-3-4 games in 2015 with Sean Smith out on injury, a rookie Marcus Peters, and Jamel Fleming getting picked on
-1 game this year with DJ White

Other than those 12-13 games, you know how many times Sutton gave up more than 20 points? 3 times. That means for 2/3 of the games, we've had a good to phenomenal defense.

For those who say he's shit the bed against great offenses. When he's had a mostly full cast, prior to this year he's done well against Pittsburgh twice, dominated NE (then did halfway decent in the playoffs against Denver), dominated San Diego almost every time, dominated Detroit, did very well against Seattle and Arizona. The only team that's had his number consistently outside of those 12-13 games is Peyton Manning.

I know he's flawed. When he has puke at the #2 CB, he can't adjust. But those who want him fired are spoiled. He's been awesome most of his time in KC.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Hearing a lot of criticism of Sutton. Here's something interesting to consider. Sutton has been here 4 years. He's had 3 stretches where he's had to play some really bad cornerbacks:
-8 games with Marcus Cooper in 2013
-3-4 games in 2015 with Sean Smith out on injury, a rookie Marcus Peters, and Jamel Fleming getting picked on
-1 game this year with DJ White

Other than those 12-13 games, you know how many times Sutton gave up more than 20 points? 3 times. That means for 2/3 of the games, we've had a good to phenomenal defense.

For those who say he's shit the bed against great offenses. When he's had a mostly full cast, prior to this year he's done well against Pittsburgh twice, dominated NE (then did halfway decent in the playoffs against Denver), dominated San Diego almost every time, dominated Detroit, did very well against Seattle and Arizona. The only team that's had his number consistently outside of those 12-13 games is Peyton Manning.

I know he's flawed. When he has puke at the #2 CB, he can't adjust. But those who want him fired are spoiled. He's been awesome most of his time in KC.

:clap: It cracks me up listening to people bitch about Sutton. We know his flaws. His results speak for themselves.

[DaneMcCloud]

Laz will put a hit on you for this thread

[dannybcaitlyn]

I wanted to fire him or demote him once Wade Phillips became available.

[kcpasco]

I'll never forget how he looked like a deer in the headlights during the Indy playoff collapse.

[CaliforniaChief]

I agree. I watched DJ White in person at the preseason game against the Rams. He was lost. I can't believe he's starting or playing significantly.

[notorious]

If the offense produces anything, Sutton looks much better.

[RealSNR]

I've been hearing in the years he's been here that "Sutton doesn't make halftime adjustments!"

The only reason people say he doesn't make adjustments is because his defenses might continue to struggle throughout a game. I'd like to see a single defensive coordinator in this league that runs certain formations/concepts in one half, then says to himself, "Hmm. You know what, I've been thinking about this all wrong! If I just change _______ then my defense will actually become all-world and awesome! Whoda thunk it!?"

Criticizing Reid for offensive playcalling is easy because most people are watching offensive plays develop from snap to snap, and very few of them when watching a game in real time will focus on how the defense is picking up on routes and filling in gaps. Now, I'm admittedly not very adept at remembering which coverages we run and how often, but there are an insane amount of people on this forum that wouldn't know Cover-3 from a goddamn grapefruit, and they tend to be the same people who say, "Bob Sutton doesn't make adjustments in the game!" I'm willing to bet Sutton could make his defensive players wear fucking clown wigs the rest of the game and not one of these assholes would notice it.

[Aspengc8]

I'll never forget how he looked like a deer in the headlights during the Indy playoff collapse.

Oh, the game with both pass rushing olb's out for injury?

[notorious]

Oh, the game with both pass rushing olb's out for injury?

That one, but a drooling idiot could have figured out a way to keep the lead.


I personally would have told my DB's to hold every play. I could live with 5 yards and time off the clock every play.

The defense did exactly what Indy needed to do happen for them to come back.

[kcpasco]

That one, but a drooling idiot could have figured out a way to keep the lead.


I personally would have told my DB's to hold every play. I could live with 5 yards and time off the clock every play.

The defense did exactly what Indy needed to do happen for them to come back.

Refs won't see every hold either.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree. I watched DJ White in person at the preseason game against the Rams. He was lost. I can't believe he's starting or playing significantly.

What? DJ White outperformed Keivarie Russell, which is part of the reason he was cut. He also had a nice play against the Jets.

But keep in mind, he's a 6th rounder that's somewhat raw. I don't understand why Acker wasn't in that package but I guess that says more about Acker than White.

[DaneMcCloud]

Oh, the game with both pass rushing olb's out for injury?

And Flowers was lost early in the 3rd quarter, too, not to mention Charles, Avery and in the 4th, Knile Davis with a broken leg.

It was a veritable MASH unit.

[HemiEd]

If the offense produces anything, Sutton looks much better.

Truth

[Rasputin]

Sutton and this defense will be better when Justin Houston returns because he is the missing piece to this defense.

[jspchief]

Yeah... I think Sutton is trash. He's had a defense full of pro bowlers since he arrived and the team rarely holds up against strong offenses. How many times have we seen him trot a young/rookie CB out there, and not be able to adjust when a team starts picking on him?

The Chiefs defense gets by because it has a ton of individual talent turning in great individual performances. It's not a strong unit collectively, in scheme or attitude.

Sutton feasts on bad teams and the individual play of star players.

[chiefzilla1501]

Yeah... I think Sutton is trash. He's had a defense full of pro bowlers since he arrived and the team rarely holds up against strong offenses. How many times have we seen him trot a young/rookie CB out there, and not be able to adjust when a team starts picking on him?

The Chiefs defense gets by because it has a ton of individual talent turning in great individual performances. It's not a strong unit collectively, in scheme or attitude.

Sutton feasts on bad teams and the individual play of star players.

Did you read my post or just post on your own?

Sutton had a bad run at the end of 2013 when Cooper was getting eaten alive with Kendrick Lewis as over the top help. He had a bad run beginning of 2015 for 4 games with rookie Marcus Peters and Sean Smith suspended.

Sutton posted an excellent 2014 defense with Berry, DJ, and Devito out for the season and in a year where they were so desperate for corners they marched out with Fleming and Parker as their two guys. He closed the year decently last year missing Justin Houston, including a dominant performance against Houston in the playoffs. He dominated New England on MNF, solid performances against Pitt 2x and Arizona, dominated San Diego the past 2 years, dominated Detroit in London, excellent performance against Seattle 2 years ago.

He's been good to dominant in 2/3 of his games. And the bad 1/3 came in stretches where he was extremely short-handed.

[thabear04]

Sean Smith out on injury. Don't recall him begging hurt for 2015.

Something the problem maybe the lack of NFL experience.

[SAUTO]

Sean Smith out on injury. Don't recall him begging hurt for 2015.

Something the problem maybe the lack of NFL experience.
Suspension

[Jimmya]

NFL network "I don't know who's idea it was to run cover 0 against one of the best offenses in the NFL, but it wasn't a smart move, Big Ben took advantage of it."

[Garcia Bronco]

Sutton is the absolute best coach on the staff. But he should be fired...time for the planet to banner up and get him gone.

[chiefzilla1501]

NFL network "I don't know who's idea it was to run cover 0 against one of the best offenses in the NFL, but it wasn't a smart move, Big Ben took advantage of it."

I think the steelers with leveon bell could be one of the most frustrating offenses to game plan for. This looked to me like a game where Suttons game plan was a little frustrating. But I don't know any adjustment would have been much help.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I personally think that Wade Phillips is by far the best DC in the league right now, and even he wouldn't look quite so bright if Von Miller was on the sidelines right now...

That's the hand Sutton was dealt. Make due without your best player AND very young defensive backs.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Overreaction Planet

[Reerun_KC]

I like buttons and his defense. It's harmless

[Mr. Laz]

Sutton is sure as hell part of the problem.

[chiefzilla1501]

Sutton is sure as hell part of the problem.

You can't blame him if his back is sore. From having to carry that offense for the past 3 years.

[Mr. Laz]

You can't blame him if his back is sore. From having to carry that offense for the past 3 years.
45 seconds to respond after my post.

You have just been waiting 5 hours since you started this thread for me to respond.

Can see you hovering over the keyboard hitting refresh every 5 minutes.

LMAO

[Reerun_KC]

I'm over, so over Reid, Smith and Sutton....

Sooner gone the better.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

IIRC, Sutton was getting destroyed by Buffalo and came out at after half time allowing practically nothing. That or Sean Smith just got his head out of his ass. Probably the latter.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

NFL network "I don't know who's idea it was to run cover 0 against one of the best offenses in the NFL, but it wasn't a smart move, Big Ben took advantage of it."

Easy to criticize when Houston isn't there to deliver pressure, Tamba isn't even able to make it into even a third of snaps, Gaines is replaced by rookie DJ white and our linebackers got their asses handed to them by Leveon bell.

[Simply Red]

the whole d's dynamic would change if Houston were healthy - but, well...

[Mr. Laz]

I'm over, so over Reid, Smith and Sutton....

Sooner gone the better.

It's not going to happen though.

Hunt fire Marty and had to wait years to be competitive.

Reid won't fire Sutton.


The most we can hope for is a real OC to reduce Andy's influence and a QB draft pick that shocks the world and wins the job.

The draft pick is going to have to shock the world too because Andy doesn't seem particular interested in developing a young QB. Murray,Hogan ... Bray would have been cut already too if he hadn't gotten hurt each year and made himself an easy keep.

I suppose there is an outside chance that Foles takes over for Smith since he seems to be an Andy favorite too. Foles will still have to dink and dunk constantly though.

[chiefzilla1501]

45 seconds to respond after my post.

You have just been waiting 5 hours since you started this thread for me to respond.

Can see you hovering over the keyboard hitting refresh every 5 minutes.

LMAO

I actually don't care too much about what you think. I know where you stand and am not going to change your mind, and I'm cool with that. My OP was mostly directed at the comment that he's had no success against good defenses.

[DaneMcCloud]

The most we can hope for is a real OC to reduce Andy's influence

LMAO

Childress isn't a capable Offensive Coordinator?

The phrase you're looking for is "Play Caller" and Andy Reid isn't giving up play calling duties, ever.

[mnchiefsguy]

Gonna call bullshit on this. Sutton kept calling the same defense over and over again, even though it was getting torched. He runs his game plan, and nothing else. Good defensive coordinators do not do that. His defenses are torched time and time again by any QB who is above average, and elite QB's like Big Ben own him.

[Mr. Laz]

LMAO

Childress isn't a capable Offensive Coordinator?

The phrase you're looking for is "Play Caller" and Andy Reid isn't giving up play calling duties, ever.
*sigh*


"real" as in real-ly has the OC job and not just an assistant to Andy.

[DaneMcCloud]

*sigh*


"real" as in real-ly has the OC job and not just an assistant to Andy.

Chilly was very good with Reid in Philly, then had the Vikings in the NFC Championship Game in the "Bounty Game" that took out Favre.

He's not a bozo, he's not Jim Bob Cooter or Brian Daboll or Mike Solari or any number of bozos that have rolled through town since Al Saunders.

Andy's play calling, for the most part this year, has sucked. It's on him, plain and simple. And when he fucks up the offense, the defense is usually fucked, too.

It doesn't help that Morse has severely regressed, Ehinger was available for only one game, LDT's played in two and Schartz has been a disappointment. You can also add Spencer Ware and Jeremy Maclin to the list.

The bottom line is that there are many, many reasons why the offense has stalled this year but the main reason is Andy Reid's play calling, which has been nothing short of abysmal.

[chiefzilla1501]

Gonna call bullshit on this. Sutton kept calling the same defense over and over again, even though it was getting torched. He runs his game plan, and nothing else. Good defensive coordinators do not do that. His defenses are torched time and time again by any QB who is above average, and elite QB's like Big Ben own him.

Big Ben threw for 220 yards when they played two years ago.

Sutton owns Phillip Rivers. He owned Brady several years ago. He did pretty well against Russell Wilson and Carson Palmer. The only QB he consistently couldn't stop was Peyton Manning, but that was a lot of people's problems. I have no idea where this is coming from. Aaron Rodgers owned Jamel Fleming. Roethlisberger owned DJ White. Sutton gets owned when he has very bad CB talent, not when he faces elite QBs.

[Titty Meat]

It's not Suttons fault guys aren't getting to the QB. It's the franchises fault for botching Houston injury then knowing and doing nothing to improve the OLB position.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's not Suttons fault guys aren't getting to the QB. It's the franchises fault for botching Houston injury then knowing and doing nothing to improve the OLB position.

Nonsense.

The Chiefs took the advice of the best sports surgeon in the world.

Doctors aren't infallible.

[Rausch]

Nonsense.

The Chiefs took the advice of the best sports surgeon in the world.

Doctors aren't infallible.

And eventually this year, he'll be back.

Consider that he made S. Smith look good at Corner. Not ok, but good.

Yeah, we'll be a different D once Houston is in game shape...

[Bowser]

Brian Daboll, lol

http://i.imgur.com/DQvPSgE.gif

[RunKC]

It's not Suttons fault guys aren't getting to the QB. It's the franchises fault for botching Houston injury then knowing and doing nothing to improve the OLB position.

Yeah. Ford had a shared sack and drew a holding call in Pitt before the game went crazy.

He's been decent as a complimentary rusher, but needs to step up.

[Tribal Warfare]

Yes Sutton is part of the problem. He overworked Dontari to the point where Poe had to have back surgery due to a herniated disc

[arrwheader]

http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/18625/chiefs-lack-of-depth-at-cornerback-was-exposed http://es.pn/2d32qvG


Chiefs' lack of depth at cornerback was exposed in Pittsburgh
8:28 AM CT
Adam Teicher
ESPN Staff Writer
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Not that he alone was going to prevent Sunday night’s debacle in Pittsburgh, but the Kansas City Chiefs missed injured starting cornerback Phillip Gaines.

Gaines, who tore his ACL last season, had a setback in practice last week. Coach Andy Reid called it a “tweak,” but it was enough of one that the Chiefs deactivated Gaines against the Steelers.

“I’m not going to say he reinjured it," Reid said. “Whatever it was, we just decided to back off there. That’s how these things sometimes work.”


The Chiefs are hoping to have Phillip Gaines back after the bye week. Erik Williams/USA TODAY Sports
Without Gaines, the Chiefs lack of depth at cornerback was exposed. Steven Nelson started and rookie D.J. White was the third cornerback. White received his first extended playing time, and saying it didn’t go well is putting it kindly.

This is where the failure with this year's third-round draft pick, KeiVarae Russell, hurts the Chiefs. Russell was buried on the depth chart at the end of training camp and the Chiefs released him.

As a third-round pick, Russell should have been advanced enough to help in a pinch in a situation such as the one the Chiefs were faced with in Pittsburgh. But the Chiefs instead whiffed on the pick.

Even without Russell, it looked like the Chiefs had some depth at corner heading into the season. They felt comfortable moving a couple of cornerbacks, Jamell Fleming and rookie Eric Murray, to safety. Fleming has since been released.

They also traded Marcus Cooper, their most experienced cornerback, to the Arizona Cardinals.

But they were left with a bunch of young cornerbacks: Gaines, Nelson, White, Marcus Peters and Kenneth Acker. Without a true veteran in the bunch, the Chiefs should have expected the occasional rotten game.

That’s what they got in Pittsburgh.

Gaines could be back in time for the Chiefs’ next game on Oct. 16 against the Raiders in Oakland. If he’s not, or if the Chiefs have another cornerback injury somewhere else along the way, they got a glimpse in Pittsburgh of what that grim reality might be like.

[chiefzilla1501]

http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/18625/chiefs-lack-of-depth-at-cornerback-was-exposed http://es.pn/2d32qvG


Chiefs' lack of depth at cornerback was exposed in Pittsburgh
8:28 AM CT
Adam Teicher
ESPN Staff Writer
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Not that he alone was going to prevent Sunday night’s debacle in Pittsburgh, but the Kansas City Chiefs missed injured starting cornerback Phillip Gaines.

Gaines, who tore his ACL last season, had a setback in practice last week. Coach Andy Reid called it a “tweak,” but it was enough of one that the Chiefs deactivated Gaines against the Steelers.

“I’m not going to say he reinjured it," Reid said. “Whatever it was, we just decided to back off there. That’s how these things sometimes work.”


The Chiefs are hoping to have Phillip Gaines back after the bye week. Erik Williams/USA TODAY Sports
Without Gaines, the Chiefs lack of depth at cornerback was exposed. Steven Nelson started and rookie D.J. White was the third cornerback. White received his first extended playing time, and saying it didn’t go well is putting it kindly.

This is where the failure with this year's third-round draft pick, KeiVarae Russell, hurts the Chiefs. Russell was buried on the depth chart at the end of training camp and the Chiefs released him.

As a third-round pick, Russell should have been advanced enough to help in a pinch in a situation such as the one the Chiefs were faced with in Pittsburgh. But the Chiefs instead whiffed on the pick.

Even without Russell, it looked like the Chiefs had some depth at corner heading into the season. They felt comfortable moving a couple of cornerbacks, Jamell Fleming and rookie Eric Murray, to safety. Fleming has since been released.

They also traded Marcus Cooper, their most experienced cornerback, to the Arizona Cardinals.

But they were left with a bunch of young cornerbacks: Gaines, Nelson, White, Marcus Peters and Kenneth Acker. Without a true veteran in the bunch, the Chiefs should have expected the occasional rotten game.

That’s what they got in Pittsburgh.

Gaines could be back in time for the Chiefs’ next game on Oct. 16 against the Raiders in Oakland. If he’s not, or if the Chiefs have another cornerback injury somewhere else along the way, they got a glimpse in Pittsburgh of what that grim reality might be like.

It's not a surprise to people who complained about not doing anything for our secondary or pass rush before the season even started.

[The Franchise]

Has Acker even played a significant number of snaps?

[arrwheader]

http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/18625/chiefs-lack-of-depth-at-cornerback-was-exposed http://es.pn/2d32qvG


Chiefs' lack of depth at cornerback was exposed in Pittsburgh
8:28 AM CT
Adam Teicher
ESPN Staff Writer
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Not that he alone was going to prevent Sunday night’s debacle in Pittsburgh, but the Kansas City Chiefs missed injured starting cornerback Phillip Gaines.

Gaines, who tore his ACL last season, had a setback in practice last week. Coach Andy Reid called it a “tweak,” but it was enough of one that the Chiefs deactivated Gaines against the Steelers.

“I’m not going to say he reinjured it," Reid said. “Whatever it was, we just decided to back off there. That’s how these things sometimes work.”


The Chiefs are hoping to have Phillip Gaines back after the bye week. Erik Williams/USA TODAY Sports
Without Gaines, the Chiefs lack of depth at cornerback was exposed. Steven Nelson started and rookie D.J. White was the third cornerback. White received his first extended playing time, and saying it didn’t go well is putting it kindly.

This is where the failure with this year's third-round draft pick, KeiVarae Russell, hurts the Chiefs. Russell was buried on the depth chart at the end of training camp and the Chiefs released him.

As a third-round pick, Russell should have been advanced enough to help in a pinch in a situation such as the one the Chiefs were faced with in Pittsburgh. But the Chiefs instead whiffed on the pick.

Even without Russell, it looked like the Chiefs had some depth at corner heading into the season. They felt comfortable moving a couple of cornerbacks, Jamell Fleming and rookie Eric Murray, to safety. Fleming has since been released.

They also traded Marcus Cooper, their most experienced cornerback, to the Arizona Cardinals.

But they were left with a bunch of young cornerbacks: Gaines, Nelson, White, Marcus Peters and Kenneth Acker. Without a true veteran in the bunch, the Chiefs should have expected the occasional rotten game.

That’s what they got in Pittsburgh.

Gaines could be back in time for the Chiefs’ next game on Oct. 16 against the Raiders in Oakland. If he’s not, or if the Chiefs have another cornerback injury somewhere else along the way, they got a glimpse in Pittsburgh of what that grim reality might be like.

Chiefs getting torched was going to happen regardless. We have a young secondary and no depth. Sean smith leaving and shipping our other veteran cooper to the cardinals, as well as whiffing on that russel pick is why we got torched from pitts high powered offense. Couple that with Alex Smiths limitations you get a blowout.

[Titty Meat]

Glad we burned two 3rd round picks

[chiefzilla1501]

Chiefs getting torched was going to happen regardless. We have a young secondary and no depth. Sean smith leaving and shipping our other veteran cooper to the cardinals, as well as whiffing on that russel pick is why we got torched from pitts high powered offense. Couple that with Alex Smiths limitations you get a blowout.

This team made a strategic decision to balance offense vs defense. The thinking was that if you give Andy and Alex more weapons, they'll rely less on the defense to carry games. Problem is, our defense got worse and our offense stayed the same if not worse.

So now I'm looking at the Schwartz, Maclin, fisher, Kelce mega contracts, not to mention the option we had to cut charles' contract, and wondering what a different place this team would be in if we used that for even just one or two defensive backs. Not to mention making some kind of attempt to eventually replace Hali.

[Aspengc8]

NFL network "I don't know who's idea it was to run cover 0 against one of the best offenses in the NFL, but it wasn't a smart move, Big Ben took advantage of it."

Interesting. I've watched every Pitt snap a second time, and KC never ran cover 0 vs any of the deep plays. Not much blitzing at all TBH.

[Discuss Thrower]

Glad we burned two 3rd round picks

3rd rounders fail at like something of a 75% clip after two seasons anyway, Bill.

[Mr. Laz]

Chiefs' lack of depth at cornerback was exposed in PittsburghSo glad we kept DaT on the roster.

[Discuss Thrower]

Sure glad we kept DaT on the roster.

Easily the most WTF roster decision Dorsey has made.

What does D'AT do that Hill can't do? If D'AT is worth keeping, is it really worth keeping Wilson considering they are somewhat similar in terms of what they present as players..?

[RunKC]

It's not just the corners though. We have 5 sacks. That's tied for 2nd to last.

[jspchief]

At least we traded out of the first and drafted a player that gets 20 snaps per game.

[srvy]

Yes Sutton is part of the problem. He overworked Dontari to the point where Poe had to have back surgery due to a herniated disc
BB never took Wilfork out in his prime either.

[Hammock Parties]

At least we traded out of the first and drafted a player that gets 20 snaps per game.

ROFL

Almost forgot about that.

Too early to judge a DL but he certainly hasn't made an immediate impact.

[jspchief]

ROFL

Almost forgot about that.

Too early to judge a DL but he certainly hasn't made an immediate impact.
Yeah I'm not judging Jones, but we're sitting here talking about the lack of depth at CB and pass rusher while the Chiefs highest draft pick this year is averaging 20 snaps per game.

And it's not like the CB issue came out of nowhere. I'm not the only one that said that the loss of Smith left nothing but unknown players at the position... now people want to say playing a rookie CB is an excuse, like the organization isn't responsible for the team having nothing but a rookie to put out there.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah I'm not judging Jones, but we're sitting here talking about the lack of depth at CB and pass rusher while the Chiefs highest draft pick this year is averaging 20 snaps per game.

And it's not like the CB issue came out of nowhere. I'm not the only one that said that the loss of Smith left nothing but unknown players at the position... now people want to say playing a rookie CB is an excuse, like the organization isn't responsible for the team having nothing but a rookie to put out there.

Yet the Chiefs had six interceptions against the Jets, including an interception by a 6th round pick this year.

The Chiefs are only 4 games into the season, while easing back their most needed players on defense in Gaines and Hali, all the while, waiting the return of Justin Houston. Eric Berry is still getting back into football shape, too.

Don't fall into the Claynus hole.

[Hammock Parties]

easing back their most needed players on defense in Gaines and Hali, all the while, waiting the return of Justin Houston. Eric Berry is still getting back into football shape, too.


And yet some of us were derided for saying these players wouldn't be at 100% to start this season, and the team would suffer for it.

Shocking that we're now in agreement so it can be used as an excuse. ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

And yet some of us were derided for saying these players wouldn't be at 100% to start this season, and the team would suffer for it.

Shocking that we're now in agreement so it can be used as an excuse. ROFL

Shut the fuck up, you gigantic, weeping cunt.

The ban hammer can't come soon enough.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Yeah I'm not judging Jones, but we're sitting here talking about the lack of depth at CB and pass rusher while the Chiefs highest draft pick this year is averaging 20 snaps per game.

And it's not like the CB issue came out of nowhere. I'm not the only one that said that the loss of Smith left nothing but unknown players at the position... now people want to say playing a rookie CB is an excuse, like the organization isn't responsible for the team having nothing but a rookie to put out there.

We are criticizing Jones' snap count when he's playing behind Poe, Bailey, and Howard? Are you kidding me?? We drafted a CB number one a year ago and Sutton had Nelson and Gaines going into the season ...

This place can get straight illogical at times

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

And yet some of us were derided for saying these players wouldn't be at 100% to start this season, and the team would suffer for it.

Shocking that we're now in agreement so it can be used as an excuse. ROFL

You really have zero clue about football. Don't understand strategy, personnel, technique, basically nothing. Just stick to making gifs and being a complete tool on this board.

[jspchief]

We are criticizing Jones' snap count when he's playing behind Poe, Bailey, and Howard? Are you kidding me?? We drafted a CB number one a year ago and Sutton had Nelson and Gaines going into the season ...

This place can get straight illogical at times
I'm not criticising Jones' snap count. I'm criticizing the front office decision to use their highest draft pick on a backup when pass rusher and CB were known needs.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

I'm not criticising Jones' snap count. I'm criticizing the front office decision to use their highest draft pick on a backup when pass rusher and CB were known needs.

They had 3 developing CB's and thought they had found someone when they drafted Russell... Jones was the right pick. Imaging going into next season with a hole in your DL or no depth. Far worse problem especially when you consider our run defense has been lacking for 3 years now

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not criticising Jones' snap count. I'm criticizing the front office decision to use their highest draft pick on a backup when pass rusher and CB were known needs.

Which 2016 CB is kicking ass?

WJIII is on IR. Vonn Bell, who I liked, hasn't done dick for NO, one of the worst defenses in the league.

Eli Apple was inactive against the Vikings in a loss Monday night. Jalen Ramsey plays for a terrible defense and a 1-3 shit team with 16 special teams tackles.

Need I go on?

[Chief Northman]

And yet some of us were derided for saying these players wouldn't be at 100% to start this season, and the team would suffer for it.

Shocking that we're now in agreement so it can be used as an excuse. ROFL

Wrong again.

Many uttered concern over an aging Hali, an absent Berry in training camp, kid gloves with the likes of Charles and Gaines and a young secondary. The majority were saying 2-2 going into the bye week was realistic if not likely.

Why you and others may have been "derided" as you say has everything to do with the delivery, and less to do with the substance.

Any supportive or positive posts regarding the team you classify under "HOMER", while anything that magnifies the teams flaws you celebrate and cherry pick with your predictable "I told you so" childish behaviour. Anybody can be a fence-sitter.
You have made this your calling card.

[Anyong Bluth]

Nonsense.

The Chiefs took the advice of the best sports surgeon in the world.

Doctors aren't infallible.
Thank you. This was discussed at length and 2 docs, my best friend and father, also a trained orthopod, explained it concisely about his injury and surgery timeline. The organization didn’t screw up.
You don't invest 50 - 60 million in something or someone and ignore that investment!

[Anyong Bluth]

It's not a surprise to people who complained about not doing anything for our secondary or pass rush before the season even started.
With what $$?

[Anyong Bluth]

Yeah I'm not judging Jones, but we're sitting here talking about the lack of depth at CB and pass rusher while the Chiefs highest draft pick this year is averaging 20 snaps per game.

And it's not like the CB issue came out of nowhere. I'm not the only one that said that the loss of Smith left nothing but unknown players at the position... now people want to say playing a rookie CB is an excuse, like the organization isn't responsible for the team having nothing but a rookie to put out there.
How'd they look @ GB last year under pretty much the same circumstances?

Too bad it never got better when the starters got back or put together a string of wins.

[Beef Supreme]

They had 3 developing CB's and thought they had found someone when they drafted Russell... Jones was the right pick. Imaging going into next season with a hole in your DL or no depth. Far worse problem especially when you consider our run defense has been lacking for 3 years now

I don't have to imagine going into next season with a hole in the D-line. I can experience it in real time right now. Every team with a pulse has gashed us right up the gut in the run game.

[Chiefnj2]

No pass rush + inexperienced secondary = big problems for any team.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Wrong again.

Many uttered concern over an aging Hali, an absent Berry in training camp, kid gloves with the likes of Charles and Gaines and a young secondary. The majority were saying 2-2 going into the bye week was realistic if not likely.

Why you and others may have been "derided" as you say has everything to do with the delivery, and less to do with the substance.

Any supportive or positive posts regarding the team you classify under "HOMER", while anything that magnifies the teams flaws you celebrate and cherry pick with your predictable "I told you so" childish behaviour. Anybody can be a fence-sitter.
You have made this your calling card.
Good punch in the crotch to that knuckle head

[WhiteWhale]

KC finishes 25th in defense in 2012.

Defense ranks top five in points allowed the following three seasons.

Fans want DC fired after four games of the fourth season.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

I don't have to imagine going into next season with a hole in the D-line. I can experience it in real time right now. Every team with a pulse has gashed us right up the gut in the run game.

Watch the film, it's our linebackers. Without Poe it would be far worse

[Rausch]

So WTF was up with Gaines and why wasn't he out there last week?

[Discuss Thrower]

It'd be nice if he had some answer to stop elite QBs that have a release time which negates even the most beastly of pass rushers.

[Bowser]

So WTF was up with Gaines and why wasn't he out there last week?

Tweaked his knee in practice, I thought?

[Rausch]

It'd be nice if he had some answer to stop elite QBs that have a release time which negates even the most beastly of pass rushers.

Other than Pitt and NE I can't think of a team that has that at QB in the AFC.

And Ben likes to throw picks when pressured so we have that going for us if we make the playoffs...

[Rausch]

Tweaked his knee in practice, I thought?

So just a sore knee (out 1 or 2 weeks) or a serious issue?...

[Discuss Thrower]

Other than Pitt and NE I can't think of a team that has that at QB in the AFC.

And Ben likes to throw picks when pressured so we have that going for us if we make the playoffs...

It was the icing on the shit cake of the Packer game from last year. Offense couldn't do dick and Houston and Hali were left holding their metaphorical dicks because Rodgers has one of the quickest releases on the planet.

[chiefzilla1501]

With what $$?

Considering in the past 2 years, we've spent a shit load on Maclin, Schwartz, Kelce and fisher extensions and those improvements have not made any major noticeable impact on offense... Maybe if your offense has no idea how to use their toys, we should consider spending that money on a defense that does.

[Anyong Bluth]

It'd be nice if he had some answer to stop elite QBs that have a release time which negates even the most beastly of pass rushers.
The buzzword is elite. If they were so easily stopped they wouldn't be elite. You're expecting an outlier when the evidence has been discussed in this very thread that Sutton has stopped / had success against elite QBs about 80% of the time.

[Valiant]

And eventually this year, he'll be back.

Consider that he made S. Smith look good at Corner. Not ok, but good.

Yeah, we'll be a different D once Houston is in game shape...

I think Houstons pressure did that. But even with that, the rest of the.front seven are playing soft. Mostly every team but ours seems to be able to get some good licks on key players. The only one I remember is throwing ben to ground this season.

[Mr. Laz]

We are criticizing Jones' snap count when he's playing behind Poe, Bailey, and Howard? Are you kidding me?? We drafted a CB number one a year ago and Sutton had Nelson and Gaines going into the season ...

This place can get straight illogical at times
You are acting like Poe,Bailey and Howard have been some dominant force.

[Easy 6]

Bob Sutton is most certainly part of the problem

But he doesnt give me a headache nearly as often as Reid

Sutton is somewhat hamstrung by our youth in the secondary and the lack of a consistently viable passrusher... those factors do not excuse mental lapses like putting White out there in his first start without any safety help, but I definitely believe he has a better well of excuses to draw from than Reid does

[Mr. Laz]

Bob Sutton is most certainly part of the problem

But he doesnt give me a headache nearly as often as Reid

Sutton is somewhat hamstrung by our youth in the secondary and the lack of a consistently viable passrusher... those factors do not excuse mental lapses like putting White out there in his first start without any safety help, but I definitely believe he has a better well of excuses to draw from than Reid does

Who decides to put Ford at LOLB instead of ROLB where he could help with Pass rush consistency?

Who decided to keep our current players?


but you're right the responsibility grows as you go up the power ladder

[Easy 6]

Who decide to put Ford at LOLB instead of ROLB where he could help with Pass rush consistency?

Who decided to keep our current players?


but you're right the responsibility grows as you go up the power ladder

Like I said, Sutton has to share in the blame, but his decisions arent as consistently vomit inducing IMO... and hell, if not for his defense we're 0-4

I scream at the tv far more when Reid and Smith are at work

[Anyong Bluth]

Like I said, Sutton has to share in the blame, but his decisions arent as consistently vomit inducing IMO... and hell, if not for his defense we're 0-4

I scream at the tv far more when Reid and Smith are at work
That's reasonable. He's certainly fair game for valid criticism, but to act like he's the 2nd coming of Robinson by some is silly.

[Easy 6]

That's reasonable. He's certainly fair game for valid criticism, but to act like he's the 2nd coming of Robinson by some is silly.

He is Dick LeBeau and Buddy Ryans even more diabolical lovechild compared to GRob

[xztop123]

defense puts an enormous pressure on corners and pass rush. the two things we dont have.

we ran a cover 3 some times last season (they broke it out in the chargers game) and we did fairly well with it. It might be worth trying if Gaines is out for some time.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

You are acting like Poe,Bailey and Howard have been some dominant force.

We're only 4 games into the season and you want to criticize coaching staff because they aren't playing Jones enough (although he's getting in on 25% of snaps) when he's playing behind 3 proven vets...?

[Mr. Laz]

We're only 4 games into the season and you want to criticize coaching staff because they aren't playing Jones enough (although he's getting in on 25% of snaps) when he's playing behind 3 proven vets...?
I didn't say anything other than our Dline isn't doing anything special.

The rest of that shit is just you whining

[Anyong Bluth]

I didn't say anything other than our Dline isn't doing anything special.

The rest of that shit is just you whining
Yes, but all 3 have a history of playing well, and pushing Jones after 4 games seems a bit reactionary. Ultimately, I would expect him to increase his reps and his play will dictate how much and how quickly he gets inserted into the lineup.

I'm not disagreeing with the lackluster play and expectations by the line. It's been improving, and in a 3-4, plus, looking at the LBs, the bigger glaring issue has been in the play of our LBs.

[rabblerouser]

Criticizing Reid for offensive playcalling is easy because most people are watching offensive plays develop from snap to snap, and very few of them when watching a game in real time will focus on how the defense is picking up on routes and filling in gaps. Now, I'm admittedly not very adept at remembering which coverages we run and how often, but there are an insane amount of people on this forum that wouldn't know Cover-3 from a goddamn grapefruit, and they tend to be the same people who say, "Bob Sutton doesn't make adjustments in the game!" I'm willing to bet Sutton could make his defensive players wear ****ing clown wigs the rest of the game and not one of these assholes would notice it.

Criticizing Reid's playcalling is easy because we have 18 years of the same stupid shit as evidence.

Sutton isn't the problem. The problem starts at the top. The problem is ownership. The problem will never change.

[Anyong Bluth]

Criticizing Reid's playcalling is easy because we have 18 years of the same stupid shit as evidence.

Sutton isn't the problem. The problem starts at the top. The problem is ownership. The problem will never change.
1983. Last QB taken in the 1st to be groomed as the starter. One constant in all those decades. Ownership.

Sadly, the Hunt's wet their beaks early in going to SB 1 & winning 4, and it seems to have satisfied ownership content with keeping a franchise good enough to remain relevant but unwilling to risk reaching for the next level if it means if their gamble doesn't pay off ending up like Jacksonville, no matter how temporary it might be.

[arrwheader]

Marcus cooper pick.....

[arrwheader]

Marcus cooper pick.....

That's what three on the year? Hope we get a good pick out of that trade.

[Anyong Bluth]

That's what three on the year? Hope we get a good pick out of that trade.

Marcus cooper pick.....
Please. Everyone around here wanted him shipped off! No way to claim seller's remorse on the guy now.

[SAUTO]

Which 2016 CB is kicking ass?

WJIII is on IR. Vonn Bell, who I liked, hasn't done dick for NO, one of the worst defenses in the league.

Eli Apple was inactive against the Vikings in a loss Monday night. Jalen Ramsey plays for a terrible defense and a 1-3 shit team with 16 special teams tackles.

Need I go on?I liked artie burns

[SAUTO]

Watch the film

ROFL

[RunKC]

Bon sure looked like a problem there..
Posted via Mobile Device

[mnchiefsguy]

Let's have our worst CB cover Cooper.......

Sutton's lack of ability to change when the defense is getting torched by one player is astounding.

[chiefzilla1501]

Houston's out, Hali's getting limited snaps, Gaines has been out, and Peters has missed some snaps. Sutton's had some miscues and the Raiders are just misfiring, but considering the deck he's been handed, I'd say Sutton has done fine today too.

[chiefzilla1501]

Another outstanding performance by Bob Sutton. Another game of outstanding second half defensive adjustments.

With all the injuries to the DL and secondary, that was an outrageously good 4th quarter for this defense.

[WhiteWhale]

Bob Sutton and the defense are the reason the team has had a winning record.

I've always found the criticism of him on this forum astounding.

[GloucesterChief]

Seems like Sutton has been learning new things and adjusting. Which bodes well.

[ThaVirus]

17 points allowed on the road to a team that's fully capable of dropping 40 any week. And that same defensive unit scored 7 points on its own.

We've got to be allowing, what, 18 PPG so far this season?

[scho63]

Defense kicked ass all day- they spent a lot of time on the field

35:12 Carolina

24:48 Chiefs

That's a big difference. Our D was out there all day.

[Bowser]

Sutton is the damned MVP of this team so far.

[-King-]

He sucks /Laz


But man, I cant wait for Houston to get back and our players to be healthy overall. Defense can be great

[Pasta Little Brioni]

17 points allowed on the road to a team that's fully capable of dropping 40 any week. And that same defensive unit scored 7 points on its own.

We've got to be allowing, what, 18 PPG so far this season?

It's incredible

[Saccopoo]

Sutton is the damned MVP of this team so far.

Just wish he'd call blitzes earlier in the game. He seems to try and save them like time outs. When he does call them, they are very effective more often than not, but...

However, he's done a very good job so far this season considering that Houston, Bailey, Howard and Gaines have been injured for a lot of the games.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Overcame a 20 play drive too ROFL

[Bowser]

Just wish he'd call blitzes earlier in the game. He seems to try and save them like time outs. When he does call them, they are very effective more often than not, but...

However, he's done a very good job so far this season considering that Houston, Bailey, Howard and Gaines have been injured for a lot of the games.

It's amazing he's got his defense playing like this considering all the injuries are forcing him to keep it together with duct tape, bubble gum, and bailing wire.

[ThaVirus]

One thing I will say that I hate is that we aren't a truly stingy defense. We just give up too many yards and Sutton appears to be OK with it.

Generally speaking, it works to perfection as most teams will shoot themselves in the foot after 7-8+ plays, but it is troublesome against some great offenses when it counts.

[NJChiefsFan]

Just wish he'd call blitzes earlier in the game. He seems to try and save them like time outs. When he does call them, they are very effective more often than not, but...

However, he's done a very good job so far this season considering that Houston, Bailey, Howard and Gaines have been injured for a lot of the games.

Agreed. Ideally in a game where you are trailing you don't want to allow a 20 play, 10 minute drive. However, as you said, the defense gets it done every week. Still no reason they shouldn't be blitzing a little more. A blitz created the turnover that turned the game around.

[chiefzilla1501]

One thing I will say that I hate is that we aren't a truly stingy defense. We just give up too many yards and Sutton appears to be OK with it.

Generally speaking, it works to perfection as most teams will shoot themselves in the foot after 7-8+ plays, but it is troublesome against some great offenses when it counts.

Well, we bend because Sutton isn't afraid to let our back 7 take chances. Including sticking with man coverage even in games like today where they struggle a bit. Because we take so many chances, we're a little less stingy. I'm definitely ok with that given the types of players we have on our team

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

In Dorsey, we trust

[Easy 6]

Sutton is the damned MVP of this team so far.

One could make an extremely strong case for that, absolutely

Thought for SURE Carolina was going to just eat our tired guys alive 5 yards at a time in the second half, yet Sutton didnt allow it

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

https://s12.postimg.org/jjkbjlaf1/Screen_Shot_2016_11_13_at_9_44_44_PM.png

Jones' sack play.

Getting pressure when it's 4 vs. 7 is a DC's dream

[chiefzilla1501]

One could make an extremely strong case for that, absolutely

Thought for SURE Carolina was going to just eat our tired guys alive 5 yards at a time in the second half, yet Sutton didnt allow it

That's an amazing part of our defense that goes way back. I still remember the Tyler palko era. Our defense was on the field for a million years. I still think that Pittsburgh almost win that year was one of the gutsiest defensive performances I've ever seen. A real credit to our d leaders like Hali and dj. Our D doesn't seem to wear out the way other defenses do

[Titty Meat]

The Sutton has has always been retarded

[BlackOp]

Offensive production is a lot easier to quantify...and arrange into some type of of systematic structure.

Defense confuses simple NFL tards...they see it as "luck".

KC's defense is seriously "ballin" in the second half of games....put Houston (if healthy) in the mix...yeah.

[Anyong Bluth]

Have the angry masses corked their pitchforks yet?

[Anyong Bluth]

Overcame a 20 play drive too ROFL
Not to mention on both TD drives by Carolina the refs bailed them out with a flag on 3rd down with a flag to keep the drive alive.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Not to mention on both TD drives by Carolina the refs bailed them out with a flag on 3rd down with a flag to keep the drive alive.

That was annoying

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

"The Chiefs defense leads the NFL with 22 takeaways this year and has also been downright dominant in the second half of games, allowing a league-low 54 second-half points all season.

They are allowing an average of just six points per game in the second half this season. That’s a crazy stat that really shows just how special they’ve been when it matters this year. "