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Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 09:35 AM
ESPN has a column today listing their best NFL trades by team. Do you agree with the Chiefs selection?


Kansas City Chiefs

Chiefs trade for offensive tackle Willie Roaf.

The 2002 trade with the Saints, for a third-round pick, was the move that allowed the Chiefs to build a premier offensive line and the high-scoring offense they had when they were coached by Dick Vermeil. Roaf played for the Chiefs for the final four seasons of his Hall of Fame career, and he was consistently great. It's no coincidence the Chiefs declined sharply on offense the year after his retirement. -- Adam Teicher

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32for32x161102/best-trade-every-nfl-team-ever-made


Here's my pick:
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111062/0426_large_medium.jpg

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 09:40 AM
Charles and Albert for Allen after Allen made it clear he wasn't going to be re-signing here has to be up there as well.

You obviously hate losing a HoFer but you got another guy who gave you several HoF caliber years and a credible LT at well under market price. In a cap environment, the cost savings was key as was the ability to get genuinely good players back in the deal.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 09:41 AM
Ah, forgot that one. Good selection.


I'd also go with trading up in the 1997 draft to get Tony G as being better than the Roaf deal. We went from 18 to 13, and gave up an extra 3rd. Those players became Kenny Holmes and Vrabel. Not a bad deal given the star player we got.

wazu
11-02-2016, 09:42 AM
No love for Tony Gonzalez for Javier Arenas?

loochy
11-02-2016, 09:44 AM
The Jared Allen one is the first one that comes to mind.

ChiefsCountry
11-02-2016, 09:44 AM
Cotton Davidson to the Raiders for a 1st round pick. Pick turned into Buck Buchanan.

LiL stumppy
11-02-2016, 09:45 AM
The Jared Allen trade that netted us JC and company is my pick.

O.city
11-02-2016, 09:45 AM
2 2nd for Alex smith. I mean, come on. Easy

Rain Man
11-02-2016, 09:46 AM
Cotton Davidson to the Raiders for a 1st round pick. Pick turned into Buck Buchanan.

Okay, that's a winner. I didn't know about this.

Reerun_KC
11-02-2016, 09:47 AM
What about the 3rd we sent over for Herman Edwards?

Discuss Thrower
11-02-2016, 09:47 AM
Cotton Davidson to the Raiders for a 1st round pick. Pick turned into Buck Buchanan.

That. As much as you don't want to say it, helping a rival kept the credibility of the AFL up with the NFL as well.

Bowser
11-02-2016, 09:50 AM
No love for Tony Gonzalez for Javier Arenas?

Goddammit. Fucking Pioli.

At least we got Anthony Sherman back for Javier Arenas.

Ming the Merciless
11-02-2016, 09:52 AM
In my lifetime,

18th overall pick for:

Montana, a safety, and a 3rd round pick.


It's the last time we've been to AFC championship game and we almost won it all.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 09:52 AM
Goddammit. ****ing Pioli.

At least we got Anthony Sherman back for Javier Arenas.

Tony G didn't do squat for the Falcons, other than going to the Pro Bowl 4 of his 5 years there.

RunKC
11-02-2016, 09:56 AM
Not the greatest trade but it's up there.

2011 trade down for a 3rd rd pick. Gave us some guy named Justin Houston.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 10:03 AM
Tony G didn't do squat for the Falcons, other than going to the Pro Bowl 4 of his 5 years there.

I love that Gonzalez played longer for the Falcons than Arenas played for us.

That's...uh...not how you 'rebuild', Scooter.

I think that one has to be on the opposite side of the spectrum; very possibly the worst trade in Chiefs history.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 10:14 AM
I love that Gonzalez played longer for the Falcons than Arenas played for us.

That's...uh...not how you 'rebuild', Scooter.

I think that one has to be on the opposite side of the spectrum; very possibly the worst trade in Chiefs history.


I've got a worse one: trading up 2 spots in 2002 to draft Ryan Sims #6. We gave up #8 to the Cowboys who selected perennial pro bowl SS Roy Williams, and also gave up a 3rd that year and a 6th in 2003.

The three players drafted immediately after our fat bust were pro bowlers: Bryant McKinnie, Williams, and John Henderson.

Bowser
11-02-2016, 10:19 AM
Tony G didn't do squat for the Falcons, other than going to the Pro Bowl 4 of his 5 years there.

I'd have taken his 409 rec. for 4,187 yards and 34 touchdowns here in that same span. Not to mention his 267 first downs he had by reception, as well. Yeah, those shitass Pioli teams couldn't have used a receiving threat like that here or anything.

Bowser
11-02-2016, 10:22 AM
I've got a worse one: trading up 2 spots in 2002 to draft Ryan Sims #6. We gave up #8 to the Cowboys who selected perennial pro bowl SS Roy Williams, and also gave up a 3rd that year and a 6th in 2003.

The three players drafted immediately after our fat bust were pro bowlers: Bryant McKinnie, Williams, and John Henderson.

Bottom line - Pioli had literally no clue what he was doing. None.

"Executive of the Decade", my ass. I would love to one day sit down and tally up all the money Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have made players and executives that left the Patriots to go on to other teams that produced neither jack nor shit. I bet the list is long and the amount of money paid out staggering.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 10:23 AM
Bottom line - Pioli had literally no clue what he was doing. None.

"Executive of the Decade", my ass. I would love to one day sit down and tally up all the money Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have made players and executives that left the Patriots to go on to other teams that produced neither jack nor shit. I bet the list is long and the amount of money paid out staggering.

That wasn't Pioli, it was Vermiel (based on the recommendation of some crony coaching buddy of his that coached Sims at NC, IIRC).

Dartgod
11-02-2016, 10:25 AM
Charles and Albert for Allen after Allen made it clear he wasn't going to be re-signing here has to be up there as well.

You obviously hate losing a HoFer but you got another guy who gave you several HoF caliber years and a credible LT at well under market price. In a cap environment, the cost savings was key as was the ability to get genuinely good players back in the deal.

That one is listed as the Vikings best trade.

The Sam Bradford trade wasn't the first time Rick Spielman made a bold move with a first-round pick. In the case of Allen, for whom the Vikings gave up four picks to the Chiefs in 2008, the move worked out fabulously. Allen posted 85.5 sacks in his six seasons with the Vikings, exiting as one of the most popular players in team history and providing the missing piece to one of the best defensive lines in the NFL. And while the price was steep -- one of the picks became running back Jamaal Charles...

Bowser
11-02-2016, 10:26 AM
That wasn't Pioli, it was Vermiel (based on the recommendation of some crony coaching buddy of his that coached Sims at NC, IIRC).

Dammit, you're right. Apologies, I knew better than that. I let my Pioli hate drive me off the tracks there.

scho63
11-02-2016, 10:27 AM
Charles and Albert for Allen after Allen made it clear he wasn't going to be re-signing here has to be up there as well.

You obviously hate losing a HoFer but you got another guy who gave you several HoF caliber years and a credible LT at well under market price. In a cap environment, the cost savings was key as was the ability to get genuinely good players back in the deal.

That's pretty good even though when it was done 90% of us didn't like it and were sad, including myself.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 10:29 AM
That one is listed as the Vikings best trade.

That was definitely a trade that worked out well for both parties.

The Vikings gambled that Allen would stay out of trouble and he did. The Chiefs got a very nice return on the player.

It was proof that not all trades are zero sum; both teams did very well in that deal.

Bowser
11-02-2016, 10:30 AM
That wasn't Pioli, it was Vermiel (based on the recommendation of some crony coaching buddy of his that coached Sims at NC, IIRC).

And yeah, I remember that one as well. Wasn't the coach John Bunting, a long time assistant with Vermeil? Sims was playing next to Julius Peppers there, and looking good while Peppers pulled down all the double teams.

Ryan Sims finished his Chiefs career with more interceptions than William Bartee, so he has that going for him.

Buehler445
11-02-2016, 10:32 AM
Montana or Roaf.

The trade up for TG is incredible.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 10:33 AM
That's pretty good even though when it was done 90% of us didn't like it and were sad, including myself.

I had resigned myself to losing Allen for nothing if we couldn't get him traded. I was pretty pleased with the 1st and 3rd as a return (I think it was actually a first and 2 thirds; Cottam was the other player in that exchange and I believe he was also a 3rd rounder).

What really sold me on it were the rumors that the Chiefs were going with Albert at #5 overall because they desperately needed a T. The rumors were that it was down to Albert or Clady at #5 and they preferred Albert's upside. I was furious.

Getting the Allen deal done allowed them to grab the guy that I was sure had the highest ceiling in the draft in Dorsey. Turns out that the leg injuries had added up and he was just never going to be the impact player he appeared to be at LSU but when the deal was made, I saw it as actually being Dorsey, Charles and Cottam because I felt like Albert was a foregone conclusion at 5.

EDIT: Huh...looks like Cottam came over with a pick we got from Detroit. It was actually the picks we used on Albert, Charles, DaJuan Morgan and Kevin Robinson. Not sure how that worked itself into Cottam in my memory. Not really relevant either way; Morgan and Cottam were pretty much equally underwhelming.

Rain Man
11-02-2016, 10:41 AM
I had resigned myself to losing Allen for nothing if we couldn't get him traded. I was pretty pleased with the 1st and 3rd as a return (I think it was actually a first and 2 thirds; Cottam was the other player in that exchange and I believe he was also a 3rd rounder).

What really sold me on it were the rumors that the Chiefs were going with Albert at #5 overall because they desperately needed a T. The rumors were that it was down to Albert or Clady at #5 and they preferred Albert's upside. I was furious.

Getting the Allen deal done allowed them to grab the guy that I was sure had the highest ceiling in the draft in Dorsey. Turns out that the leg injuries had added up and he was just never going to be the impact player he appeared to be at LSU but when the deal was made, I saw it as actually being Dorsey, Charles and Cottam because I felt like Albert was a foregone conclusion at 5.

EDIT: Huh...looks like Cottam came over with a pick we got from Detroit. It was actually the picks we used on Albert, Charles, DaJuan Morgan and Kevin Robinson. Not sure how that worked itself into Cottam in my memory. Not really relevant either way; Morgan and Cottam were pretty much equally underwhelming.

If I remember right, the third player ended up being Dajuan Morgan, because there were some draftniks who swore he was going to be great.

The Charles trade definitely falls out as one of the best Chiefs trades ever, but I still contend that it was simultaneously a terrible trade from a value perspective. The only reason that the Chiefs won is that they spun triple 7's on the third-round pick for Charles. Charles gave us 10 times the value that you would expect out of a third-round pick, and that's sheer luck. It was a bad trade that just happened to beat the odds.

Rain Man
11-02-2016, 10:43 AM
Not the greatest trade but it's up there.

2011 trade down for a 3rd rd pick. Gave us some guy named Justin Houston.

That's a pretty good candidate. If Houston comes back strong, it's a very good candidate.

scho63
11-02-2016, 10:53 AM
These three are trade and draft as opposed to straight trade but all resulted in a big postive for KC.

In 2011, Kansas City sent its original first-round pick (21st overall) to Cleveland in exchange for Cleveland’s first-round pick (27th overall and became 26th overall), eventually used on WR Jon Baldwin, and the Browns’ third-round pick (70th overall), used to select LB Justin Houston.

In 2001, Kansas City obtained QB Trent Green and St. Louis’ fifth-round pick in exchange for the Chiefs first-round draft pick (12th overall).

In 1988, the Chiefs obtained Detroit’s first-round pick (second overall), which was used to select DE Neil Smith, in exchange for Kansas City’s original first-round pick (third overall) and second-round pick (29th overall).

jjchieffan
11-02-2016, 11:08 AM
I love that Gonzalez played longer for the Falcons than Arenas played for us.

That's...uh...not how you 'rebuild', Scooter.

I think that one has to be on the opposite side of the spectrum; very possibly the worst trade in Chiefs history.

The 50th pick in the draft wasn't so bad for compensation. It's what Pioli did with that pick that sucks. I remember wanting Golden Tate or Terrence Cody with that pick. Carlos Dunlap was available too. Pioli was probably the most overrated GM prospect ever. We thought we had the best available, but boy did we get fooled. I guess the bright side of the trade is that we traded Arenas for Sherman, who has been among the best FB's in the league for us and is still on the team, whereas, Gonzalez is now retired.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 11:18 AM
Dammit, you're right. Apologies, I knew better than that. I let my Pioli hate drive me off the tracks there.

And to add insult, we almost didn't get our pick off in time after we traded with Dallas. Our 15 min were up, and the Vikings were headed to the podium to replace us. Yeah: we traded up and almost lost 1 of the 2 spots we traded to get.


Insult #2: they were planning to take Ryan Sims off our hands.

Frosty
11-02-2016, 11:21 AM
I think that one has to be on the opposite side of the spectrum; very possibly the worst trade in Chiefs history.

I think the one that counts for worst in history was in 1995. Trading a 2nd and sixth to the Eagles for Victor Bailey and a 4th. Then Bailey never plays and is out of football in '96.

KChiefs1
11-02-2016, 11:22 AM
Cotton Davidson to the Raiders for a 1st round pick. Pick turned into Buck Buchanan.



That's mine.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 11:22 AM
And to add insult, we almost didn't get our pick off in time after we traded with Dallas. Our 15 min were up, and the Vikings were headed to the podium to replace us. Yeah: we traded up and almost lost 1 of the 2 spots we traded to get.


Insult #2: they were planning to take Ryan Sims off our hands.

You've got that backwards.

The Vikings didn't get their pick in timely and so we jumped them in the order. My memory is they took Henderson.

EDIT: Nope, you were right. The Vikings fucked that whole thing up the NEXT season. Both times they got incredibly lucky though and ended up with a better player for not getting the guy they actually wanted.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 11:43 AM
How nice would Roy Williams have looked in that 2003 Chiefs secondary? (Puts head in hands, weeps)

Garcia Bronco
11-02-2016, 11:50 AM
Is there even one a great trade in chief's recent history (the past 30 years)? None of the trades listed resulted in a higher honor than Division winner. A feat only accomplished by the chiefs 4 times since 1997. The Roaf trade resulted in no playoff wins. The Tony Gonzalaz trade resulted in no playoff wins. The Montana trade actually resulted in playoff wins. Len Dawson was a free agent id I recall. Otherwise, he would have to be the greatest trade, but it wasn't a trade.

Titty Meat
11-02-2016, 11:52 AM
Conditional pick for Kenneth Acker

O.city
11-02-2016, 11:54 AM
How nice would Roy Williams have looked in that 2003 Chiefs secondary? (Puts head in hands, weeps)

Meh, with that defense, I don't know that he'd have made much difference.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 12:01 PM
Meh, with that defense, I don't know that he'd have made much difference.

Sorry, but Roy was 1st team all-pro that year. That isn't some decent player, that's an elite one. He had an Approximate Value of 13 vs Greg Wesley at only 7.

O.city
11-02-2016, 12:04 PM
Sorry, but Roy was 1st team all-pro that year. That isn't some decent player, that's an elite one. He had an Approximate Value of 13 vs Greg Wesley at only 7.

But you've got him in a different system, with different guys around him, etc. Not like baseball plug and play.

He'd have been good, but that defense was dysfunctional all the way around.

Pitt Gorilla
11-02-2016, 12:05 PM
Charles and Albert for Allen after Allen made it clear he wasn't going to be re-signing here has to be up there as well.

You obviously hate losing a HoFer but you got another guy who gave you several HoF caliber years and a credible LT at well under market price. In a cap environment, the cost savings was key as was the ability to get genuinely good players back in the deal.First one that came to mind. Good choice!

Pitt Gorilla
11-02-2016, 12:55 PM
Ah, forgot that one. Good selection.


I'd also go with trading up in the 1997 draft to get Tony G as being better than the Roaf deal. We went from 18 to 13, and gave up an extra 3rd. Those players became Kenny Holmes and Vrabel. Not a bad deal given the star player we got.I was going to suggest this one as well. Leading up to that draft (and during the draft), there was talk that the Cowboys were going to take Gonzalez. During the draft (IIRC), Kiper et al. were suggesting that the Cowboys were trying to trade up (in front of the Chiefs) so that they could select Tony G. Not long after that, the Chiefs traded up even higher to secure him.

That was a fun draft to watch.

big nasty kcnut
11-02-2016, 01:04 PM
The trade that for Joe Montana!

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 01:12 PM
Sorry, but Roy was 1st team all-pro that year. That isn't some decent player, that's an elite one. He had an Approximate Value of 13 vs Greg Wesley at only 7.

He was still the wrong kind of player. Hell, he was essentially a rich man's Wesley.

He was something of a guided missile at safety who would freelance a bit too much to go after interceptions and/or big hits.

The Chiefs needed someone that was more assignment sound so that they could actually get some stops here and there. Williams might have helped a little, but not enough to make that defense anything more than simply bad. I guess it would have been just a little less bad, but bad nonetheless.

Williams is like Berry in that he's not going to do much to make a bad defense good but he could be important in making a good defense better. He'd be like throwing an All Pro RG on one of those Pioli teams. Sure, the team would be improved in that area, but the offense would've still sucked balls. But if you were to have put an All Pro RG on the Chiefs of 3 years ago when we were rolling Mike McGlynn's sorry ass out there, that could've actually made a big difference.

That defense was just too far gone for a risk-taking safety to make an impact.

Titty Meat
11-02-2016, 01:22 PM
Roy Williams wasn't a good NFL player

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 01:25 PM
Roy Williams wasn't a good NFL player

Not for most of his career but out of the chute he was so athletic that he was able to catch teams flat-footed.

3 years later he wasn't much use to anyone, but for a brief spell he was dynamic enough to be a pretty good asset for a team that could afford to deal with his freelancing on occasion.

Titty Meat
11-02-2016, 01:35 PM
Not for most of his career but out of the chute he was so athletic that he was able to catch teams flat-footed.

3 years later he wasn't much use to anyone, but for a brief spell he was dynamic enough to be a pretty good asset for a team that could afford to deal with his freelancing on occasion.

He could have broke Donnie Edwards franchise record for most tackles 15 yards down the field :D

Hog's Gone Fishin
11-02-2016, 01:40 PM
The Jared Allen trade that netted us JC and company is my pick.

I'd rather have Willie Roaf than Jamaal

DJ's left nut
11-02-2016, 01:50 PM
I'd rather have Willie Roaf than Jamaal

Roaf's abrupt retirement after the draft/FA period and the subsequent scrambling of Trent Green's brains pretty harshly colored my view of his time here.

He really hung his teammates out to dry there and I'm going to have a hard time forgiving him for that.

I'll take 6 years from Albert (plus Steven Nelson; our comp pick for him) and 6 healthy seasons from Charles over 4 seasons from Roaf and his unceremonious exit from the organization.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 02:23 PM
He was still the wrong kind of player. Hell, he was essentially a rich man's Wesley.

He was something of a guided missile at safety who would freelance a bit too much to go after interceptions and/or big hits.

The Chiefs needed someone that was more assignment sound so that they could actually get some stops here and there. Williams might have helped a little, but not enough to make that defense anything more than simply bad. I guess it would have been just a little less bad, but bad nonetheless.

Williams is like Berry in that he's not going to do much to make a bad defense good but he could be important in making a good defense better. He'd be like throwing an All Pro RG on one of those Pioli teams. Sure, the team would be improved in that area, but the offense would've still sucked balls. But if you were to have put an All Pro RG on the Chiefs of 3 years ago when we were rolling Mike McGlynn's sorry ass out there, that could've actually made a big difference.

That defense was just too far gone for a risk-taking safety to make an impact.


He was exactly like Berry.


You and others say our defense sucked balls anyway and I'm Obv not disputing that. (Also Greg Robinson should've been given a police escort out of the stadium and his possessions boxed up and mailed to him). But in a 38-31 game where 1 stop could've made the diff - 1 stop! - wouldn't you take a shot on a superior talent possibly forcing the action rather than running around clueless like Wesley always did?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-02-2016, 02:58 PM
I've got a worse one: trading up 2 spots in 2002 to draft Ryan Sims #6. We gave up #8 to the Cowboys who selected perennial pro bowl SS Roy Williams, and also gave up a 3rd that year and a 6th in 2003.

The three players drafted immediately after our fat bust were pro bowlers: Bryant McKinnie, Williams, and John Henderson.

Roy Williams was one of the worst safeties in football for his entire career. He is the greatest single example of how the Pro Bowl is irrelevant.

Prison Bitch
11-02-2016, 03:58 PM
Sorta like Eric Berry?