Chiefs' winning streak masks sputtering offense

[oaklandhater]

http://www.wfmz.com/sports/chiefs-winning-streak-masks-sputtering-offense/165501605


By: The Sports Xchange
Posted: Nov 16, 2016 07:17 PM EST
Updated: Nov 16, 2016 07:17 PM EST

Given the circumstances of the past year, it seems there's only the slightest chance the Kansas City Chiefs will lose during the regular season.

Ten consecutive victories at the end of the 2015 season were followed by a 7-2 record over the current schedule; no team in the NFL can match that type of winning ... during the regular season. Those 17 wins are three more than Seattle (14-4-1) and four ahead of New England (13-6) and Denver (13-7) in that time span.

Andy Reid and his staff have produced a balanced team on both offense and defense, that's been the textbook definition of complementary football. They are the NFL's under-the-radar contender, with few superstars on the roster.

But a five-game winning streak has provided a bit of cover for a large and nasty looking pimple growing on the Chiefs' 2016 season. Reid's offense is struggling to score points, with just one touchdown over the last two games. Kansas City has not reached the end zone in its last seven quarters of play.

"Three weeks ago we were kind of right there doing our thing, doing well in the third down and doing well in the red zone," Reid said. "Our third-down percentage the last two weeks has just been terrible. We have to take care of that first."

They are now ranked No. 26 in offensive yards at 332.8 yards per game. The Chiefs have 16 offensive touchdowns, ranking them No. 27 in the league.

And, there are those pesky third down and red zone problems that were very visible in the 20-17 victory over Carolina last Sunday.

On third downs, they converted just twice in 12 chances, an ugly 17 percent conversion rate. The Chiefs made three trips inside the Carolina 20-yard line. In six plays there, they gained just three yards. Quarterback Alex Smith did not complete any of his four passes. They settled for three field goals.

For the 2016 season, they are in the No. 29 spot among the league's 32 teams on third downs, with an overall conversion rate of 34.7 percent. They are tied for No. 30 in touchdown success in the red zone, with 12 scores on 30 opportunities or 40 percent of the time. Only Washington carries a lower touchdown percentage at 38.9 percent.

"I felt like we've been out of character the last two of weeks," said Smith, who missed the Jacksonville game after taking two blows to the head in the previous game. "I think everyone on offense would agree. I think we all want to get back to our form and play the way we're capable of.

"It's a lot of things, being better on first and second down. It's also critical situations like third down and red zone. Those are difference-makers in games. If you play well on those downs, your chances of winning greatly increase."

The Chiefs seldom turn the ball over - just one turnover in the five-game streak and only eight on the season - and pass protection has improved as they've allowed nine sacks in the five victories.

It's penalties that have hurt the offense, putting the Chiefs in bad third down situations and keeping them out of the end zone. Over the last two games, Kansas City picked up a first down only three times in 26 third down chances.

"We have these third and gazillion yards," Reid said. "There have been too many penalties that are working into that and putting us into long yardage situations. We have to take care of that first.

"We have to stay aggressive in the red zone. But there is a time and place to check it down or run it; I have to make sure I'm giving the guys the opportunity to do that."

[oaklandhater]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l482T0yNkeo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chiefs 2016 season.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

All offset by ball security. You can cry all you want though.

Sure they need to improve though it shows again that importance.

[Coochie liquor]

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[Red Dawg]

Offense has struggled for two seasons now. It's pretty clear what the problem is.

[In58men]

Offense has struggled for two seasons now. It's pretty clear what the problem is.

Our fullback situation is horrible

[farmerchief]

http://www.wfmz.com/sports/chiefs-winning-streak-masks-sputtering-offense/165501605


By: The Sports Xchange
Posted: Nov 16, 2016 07:17 PM EST
Updated: Nov 16, 2016 07:17 PM EST



"We have to stay aggressive in the red zone. But there is a time and place to check it down or run it; I have to make sure I'm giving the guys the opportunity to do that."

The coaches philosophy right there is part of the problem. God forbid, giving Captain Checkdown, any more encouragement to dump the ball off!:cuss:

[dannybcaitlyn]

Three things need to happen next year. Reid fire himself from calling plays. Dump Alex Smith and hire Norv turner a true OC.

[Eleazar]

The only time this offense has ever roared along was when Reid was not calling as many plays, last year. That brought last year's turnaround. As soon as pederson left, it's back to the Reid sideways offense doldrums.

Reid is terrible at calling plays and needs to give it up. Maybe his offense worked in PHI back when he had elite talent, but the game has passed Reid by. He refuses to adapt to rule changes and the way the game is played today, which rewards throwing the ball downfield and stretching the field. His pop warner offense is antiquated.

I know that ownership will never do it, but Reid should have to give up play calling.

[stevieray]

Awwwwww. You poor thing!

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Yeah Smith missing TWO wide open receivers for TDs is Reids fault. Dumbasses.

[notorious]

The word "sputtering" is a little too gracious.

[Dartgod]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l482T0yNkeo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chiefs 2016 season.

So sorry that you can't simply enjoy a winning season.

Dumbass...

[Red Dawg]

The only time this offense has ever roared along was when Reid was not calling as many plays, last year. That brought last year's turnaround. As soon as pederson left, it's back to the Reid sideways offense doldrums.

Reid is terrible at calling plays and needs to give it up. Maybe his offense worked in PHI back when he had elite talent, but the game has passed Reid by. He refuses to adapt to rule changes and the way the game is played today, which rewards throwing the ball downfield and stretching the field. His pop warner offense is antiquated.

I know that ownership will never do it, but Reid should have to give up play calling.

Before we dog out Andy too much. Alex has missed tons of wide open td's or big gainers with blindness.

[oaklandhater]

So sorry that you can't simply enjoy a winning season.

Dumbass...

Two horrible years of offense the writing is on the wall for playoff's SUCK IT you freaking homers need to STFU and admit the offense is shit you can enjoy a winning season and still smell the shit from the offense a mile away.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Flush this turd

[oaklandhater]

Three things need to happen next year. Reid fire himself from calling plays. Dump Alex Smith and hire Norv turner a true OC.

I don't know who the chiefs can replace smith with next year draft is suppose to be pretty terrible for QB's.

But regardless of how the season goes andy needs to Hire a real OC and give up play calling.

[Dartgod]

Two horrible years of offense the writing is on the wall for playoff's SUCK IT you freaking homers need to STFU and admit the offense is shit you can enjoy a winning season and still smell the shit from the offense a mile away.

The difference between you and I (other than the fact that you are a colossal dipshit) is that I don't care. It's entertainment to me. They win, great. They lose, oh well. There are more important things in my life than basing my happiness on the fortunes of an NFL team.

[HemiEd]

Offense has struggled for two seasons now. It's pretty clear what the problem is.
Yep, damaged goods that have been paid

[oaklandhater]

The difference between you and I (other than the fact that you are a colossal dipshit) is that I don't care. It's entertainment to me. They win, great. They lose, oh well. There are more important things in my life than basing my happiness on the fortunes of an NFL team.

Well unlike you a (BITCH) I want a championship some day or better yet some balance either we have a balling offense or a balling defense we can have a balance team.

I'm not gonna be no blind homer and pop a beer and enjoy the win's with out pointing out the flaws.

[rico]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/you-gotta-have-fe9nhw.jpg

[threebag]

I don't know who the chiefs can replace smith with next year draft is suppose to be pretty terrible for QB's.

Then shut the fuck up. You would think Alex was as horrible a QB as you are a fucking fan.

Your like a bitch, team is doing all they can and you're flapping your cock holster and eating Bon Bons

[threebag]

I'm not gonna pop a beer and enjoy the win's with out pointing out the flaws.

Are you a woman?

[oaklandhater]

Then shut the **** up. You would think Alex was as horrible a QB as you are a ****ing fan.

Your like a bitch, team is doing all they can and you're flapping your cock holster and eating Bon Bons

There not doing Shit they could have drafted Carr or traded up for Paxton Don't ever say there doing shit on offense cause they haven't done jackshit every year I come on here banging the draft the WR drum and I have to fight with you tards about how there is good depth in the 3rd-4th rounds.

[oaklandhater]

Are you a woman?

I'm a sports fan that see's a glaring flaw with the chiefs and refuse to put on the blinders you can blow me....

[threebag]

All Hail the third and fourth rounds

[oaklandhater]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/you-gotta-have-fe9nhw.jpg

its more then this Foles look terrible vs jags I would say the system is 30% of why our offense blows

[oaklandhater]

All Hail the third and fourth rounds

Yea... cause conley is lighting up the scoreboards huh... Freaking moron.

[Mr. Plow]

So sorry that you can't simply enjoy a winning season.

Dumbass...

Love the mentality around here. You are either a full on homer or full on hater. It's not an either/or situation.

Nobody can be happy that we are winning and concerned that the offense is a liability at this point.

[oaklandhater]

Love the mentality around here. You are either a full on homer or full on hater. It's not an either/or situation.

Nobody can be happy that we are winning and concerned that the offense is a liability at this point.

Only the homers are tossing this shit

You can't talk chiefs football on here unless there losing

Screw Dane and all his ilk.

[Dartgod]

Love the mentality around here. You are either a full on homer or full on hater. It's not an either/or situation.

Nobody can be happy that we are winning and concerned that the offense is a liability at this point.

I'm neither. I recognize our limitations, but I can pound my keyboard until my fingers bleed and it isn't going to change a thing.

[oaklandhater]

I'm neither. I recognize our limitations, but I can pound my keyboard until my fingers bleed and it isn't going to change a thing.

What the hell is the point of watching sports if you can't talk about the strengths and weakness of your team just STFU

[Dartgod]

What the hell is the point of watching sports if you can't talk about the strengths and weakness of your team just STFU

You'll understand someday when you reach puberty.

[oaklandhater]

You'll understand someday when you reach puberty.

Personal insult instead of defending the issue

School of Dane

You're a bastion of maturity today....

[Dartgod]

Personal insult instead of defending the issue

School of Dane

You're a bastion of maturity today....

I already defended my position. What good does it do to get so fucking angry about the situation?

All you and your ilk do is go on and on and on and on and on about how much Alex sucks. Good God, give it a rest.

[PAChiefsGuy]

oaklandhater is clearly a crybaby. 7-2 and all he wants to do is get mad that we don't have the #1 offense in the league. Who cares as long as we keep winning?

Is it a concern? Yes but it's not the end of the world with pretty much half the season left to play. Broncos offense sucked last year too and they won the SB.

[oaklandhater]

oaklandhater is clearly a crybaby. 7-2 and all he wants to do is get mad that we don't have the #1 offense in the league. Who cares as long as we keep winning?

Is it a concern? Yes but it's not the end of the world with pretty much half the season left to play. Broncos offense sucked last year too and they won the SB.

and Ravens won the super bowl with an amazing Defense it Doesn't mean shit to me

1 our defense is amazing but its not Denver/Ravens elite good its mostly turnovers which will not LAST AND YOU SHOULD NEVER COUNT ON IT'S A GAMBLE STAT

2 our offense is ranked 28 out of 32 we were 27 last year DEN WAS 16 THEY WERE MILES AHEAD OF US LAST YEAR AND ARE STILL MILES AHEAD OF US ITS NOT THE SAME THING OUR OFFENSE somehow looks worse this year then last year.

[oaklandhater]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total

look at the chiefs neighbors from 25 up you think any of those teams are gonna do well in the playoffs ?

[oaklandhater]

we are ranked 22 on total defense this year F-turnovers they won't last and should never be counted on It's full on homer to think this team is not flawed just cause there Winning.

[oaklandhater]

I already defended my position. What good does it do to get so ****ing angry about the situation?

All you and your ilk do is go on and on and on and on and on about how much Alex sucks. Good God, give it a rest.

Why come in there then if its just gonna get your Panties all twisted up Alex has sucked all season it's fact and Reid is sucking at Play calling for most of the season it's fact this thread title would seem like we are gonna cover this issue no ?

[KCTitus]

"We have to stay aggressive in the red zone. But there is a time and place to check it down or run it; I have to make sure I'm giving the guys the opportunity to do that."

LOL...there's a time and place to run a bubble screen and the 3yd line AINT IT!

[Mile High Mania]

Anything can happen...

If the defense can play lights out consistently, then you're in the hunt as long as the offense doesn't screw it up. It's frustrating, but patience is a virtue. As they always say - Defense wins Championships. Nobody said it would be pretty.

[alpha_omega]

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

[Sandy Vagina]

oaklandhater is clearly a crybaby.

Is it a concern? Yes but it's not the end of the world with pretty much half the season left to play.

this is pretty well what it comes down to, sadly...

I already defended my position. What good does it do to get so ****ing angry about the situation?

All you and your ilk do is go on and on and on and on and on about how much Alex sucks. Good God, give it a rest.

it's as if "your opinion is duly noted" does not exist here.

Over and over and over.. the same crying from the same dipshits. Yes, we all get it. The offense is not performing to expectations. Yes, the QB is not performing to expectations.. and it could might maybe possibly keep KC from venturing all the way to a SB.

We HEAR YOU.... so stop beating this same dead horse. The O will either improve.. or it won't.. and they will either move on from the QB... or they won't.

.. but the repetitive crybaby shit is so played out.

(obviously not directed AT you, Dart)

[rico]

Love the mentality around here. You are either a full on homer or full on hater. It's not an either/or situation.

Nobody can be happy that we are winning and concerned that the offense is a liability at this point.

I am happy we are winning, but am concerned with Reid's play calling and straight up can't stand Alex Smith...I am happy that we have been finding ways to win, though.

[rico]

this is pretty well what it comes down to, sadly...



it's as if "your opinion is duly noted" does not exist here.

Over and over and over.. the same crying from the same dipshits. Yes, we all get it. The offense is not performing to expectations. Yes, the QB is not performing to expectations.. and it could might maybe possibly keep KC from venturing all the way to a SB.

We HEAR YOU.... so stop beating this same dead horse. The O will either improve.. or it won't.. and they will either move on from the QB... or they won't.

.. but the repetitive crybaby shit is so played out.

(obviously not directed AT you, Dart)

Boy this is ironic. Over and over and over the same dipshit Alexuals making Alexcuses.

[ptlyon]

That article was pretty long, all it really had to say was "Alex Smith sucks".

[Sandy Vagina]

Boy this is ironic. Over and over and over the same dipshit Alexuals making Alexcuses.

Not one excuse had been made from me here in that post.. so the word you are looking for is not ironic.. but indicative.. indicative post from you that you really are mentally limited.

Any reasonable person would admit that the same crying about the offense has gotten old. Everyone agrees they need to play better or make changes.

So all of this repetitive drama is boring and lame.

[Mr. Plow]

it's as if "your opinion is duly noted" does not exist here.

Over and over and over.. the same crying from the same dipshits. Yes, we all get it. The offense is not performing to expectations. Yes, the QB is not performing to expectations.. and it could might maybe possibly keep KC from venturing all the way to a SB.

We HEAR YOU.... so stop beating this same dead horse. The O will either improve.. or it won't.. and they will either move on from the QB... or they won't.

.. but the repetitive crybaby shit is so played out.

(obviously not directed AT you, Dart)

It's almost like you are completely ignoring reading the same stuff..... over and over and over and over..... from the same "dipshits" on the other side of the argument as well. Almost.

Since the offensive struggles and Smith are off the table, can you tell us what we can talk about? It would be a lot easier if you just provided a list to everyone of the acceptable topics of discussion.

[O.city]

If the offense doesn't get better they won't win in January's big games. They sure as shit ain't going into NE and winning with a pop gun offense.

It's time to stop playing like scared pussies and get their shit together

[jjchieffan]

I already defended my position. What good does it do to get so ****ing angry about the situation?

All you and your ilk do is go on and on and on and on and on about how much Alex sucks. Good God, give it a rest.

This is the whole issue. It's not that all of us are blind homers that don't see the [roblems on this team. I think that every one of us would like to see more production from the offense and to have an elite franchise quarterback. However, we just don't see the point in belaboring the issue to the ends of the earth. You guys do it in every single thread. Berry won player of the wee thread...Good thing Berry stepped up to make up for our shortcomings at quarterback....Is the Chiefs defense best in the league? It has to be for Smith to win....I haven't been in the Let's talk about guns thread, but I bet that someone has compared Smith to a shotgun because he is only good in short range. Come on guys. We get it and we agree. We just get sick of hearing about it.

[Sandy Vagina]

It's almost like you are completely ignoring reading the same stuff..... over and over and over and over..... from the same "dipshits" on the other side of the argument as well. Almost.

Since the offensive struggles and Smith are off the table, can you tell us what we can talk about? It would be a lot easier if you just provided a list to everyone of the acceptable topics of discussion.

I'm not sure you or others understand what discussion really is.

Simply pointing to the QB or offense and claiming they iz teh suxxorz is not really discussion. It's just a daily repeated comment that we all have heard a million times.

Discuss ways to make the offense better with what we have. Or maybe, just shut your ****ing little minds off till Sunday, since they are not conducive of real discussion? Sometimes less.. really is more.

[O.city]

Stop talking bad about the qb is basically what I got out of that

[KCTitus]

I'm reminded of the 2003 season...after a 9-0 start the defense was exposed in Cincinnati and the 'warning signs' started to show up that this team might not be the contender that everyone thought they might be.

I remember seeing all the accolades on ESPN about how 95% of teams that go 9-0 make the superbowl and 80% of the time they win it, etc.

By week 17, it was clear that team wasnt going anywhere...and then the no punt game.

Same situation, other side of the ball...fortunately, I believe this offense has more talent and can succeed, but something seems to stifle it. It's like Andy has Marty disease "That play worked, so dont run it ever again".

[rico]

Not one excuse had been made from me here in that post.. so the word you are looking for is not ironic.. but indicative.. indicative post from you that you really are mentally limited.

Any reasonable person would admit that the same crying about the offense has gotten old. Everyone agrees they need to play better or make changes.

So all of this repetitive drama is boring and lame.

You are such a twat-waffle.

You are dense as hell if you haven't noticed that IN GENERAL (not specifically in this thread YET), there tend to be just as many or more Alexuals making the same Alexcuses as the Alex-haters throwing Alex jabs. At least it seems that way to me...

Dingleberry.

[Mr. Plow]

I'm not sure you or others understand what discussion really is.

Simply pointing to the QB or offense and claiming they iz teh suxxorz is not really discussion. It's just a daily repeated comment that we all have heard a million times.

Discuss ways to make the offense better with what we have. Or maybe, just shut your ****ing little minds off till Sunday, since they are not conducive of real discussion? Sometimes less.. really is more.

Nonsense. There are plenty of us that go beyond the "Smith sucks" narrative. Don't want to talk about the offense - stay out of the threads. Don't want to talk about QB's - stay out of those threads. Just find your safe space.

[Discuss Thrower]

I'm reminded of the 2003 season...after a 9-0 start the defense was exposed in Cincinnati and the 'warning signs' started to show up that this team might not be the contender that everyone thought they might be.

I remember seeing all the accolades on ESPN about how 95% of teams that go 9-0 make the superbowl and 80% of the time they win it, etc.

By week 17, it was clear that team wasnt going anywhere...and then the no punt game.

Same situation, other side of the ball...fortunately, I believe this offense has more talent and can succeed, but something seems to stifle it. It's like Andy has Marty disease "That play worked, so dont run it ever again".

Sums up my thoughts exactly.

[Beef Supreme]

"We have to stay aggressive in the red zone. But there is a time and place to check it down or run it; I have to make sure I'm giving the guys the opportunity to do that."

Holy shit, Reid thinks he needs to give the guys more opportunities to check it down. I don't even know how to respond to that.

[prhom]

I'm not sure where one would find stats like this, but it would be interesting to compare last year's offense third down conversion rate if you removed the conversions that Alex made by scrambling to this year's third down conversion rate. My hunch is that a big reason our offense looked better last year was due to the fact that Alex scrambled a lot on third down and was successful in doing it, whereas this year it doesn't seem like he has done that nearly as much.

[ThaVirus]

I'm not sure where one would find stats like this, but it would be interesting to compare last year's offense third down conversion rate if you removed the conversions that Alex made by scrambling to this year's third down conversion rate. My hunch is that a big reason our offense looked better last year was due to the fact that Alex scrambled a lot on third down and was successful in doing it, whereas this year it doesn't seem like he has done that nearly as much.

I don't have the stats but this absolutely has a shit ton to do with it.

Alex had 500 yards rushing in 16 games last season. This year, in 8 games, he's got 44.

It's seriously like night and day and I'm not sure what's going on. He seems slower for sure but does anyone lose that much speed in one offseason? I think he may be a bit scared to take a hit this year as well.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah Smith missing TWO wide open receivers for TDs is Reids fault. Dumbasses.

Foles missed 2 TDs last week, Smith missed 2 more this week.

That's 4 offensive scores that came off the board because the quarterbacks didn't hit relatively routine throws.

Andy Reid hasn't been the problem. They need better play from the quarterback in a big, big way.

[The Franchise]

I'm not sure you or others understand what discussion really is.

Simply pointing to the QB or offense and claiming they iz teh suxxorz is not really discussion. It's just a daily repeated comment that we all have heard a million times.

Discuss ways to make the offense better with what we have. Or maybe, just shut your ****ing little minds off till Sunday, since they are not conducive of real discussion? Sometimes less.. really is more.

You bring absolutely nothing to this board.

[Mr. Plow]

I'm not sure where one would find stats like this, but it would be interesting to compare last year's offense third down conversion rate if you removed the conversions that Alex made by scrambling to this year's third down conversion rate. My hunch is that a big reason our offense looked better last year was due to the fact that Alex scrambled a lot on third down and was successful in doing it, whereas this year it doesn't seem like he has done that nearly as much.

That's a good point. Just looking at the overall rushes from Smith from 2015 & 2016......

In 2015, he had 84 rushes (most in his career) for 498 yards in 16 games. He averaged a little over 5 rushes per game.

In 2016, he has 23 rushes for 44 yards in 8 games. That averages to just under 3 rushes per game.

[NJChiefsFan]

Love the mentality around here. You are either a full on homer or full on hater. It's not an either/or situation.

Nobody can be happy that we are winning and concerned that the offense is a liability at this point.

Middle ground? Crazy talk. If you acknowledge a middle ground, then you can't stand on a soap box and feel smarter than everyone else. I am enjoying the hell out of this season. I am also concerned about us going deep in the playoffs.

I am not ragging on the team because I enjoy it, but because I believe it has the talent to go far if they play to their capabilities. Milkman said this the other day. I rag on players when they aren't playing up to their own capability. If they are playing at their capability, then it's on the coaches and GM to find someone better. Sandy touhed on that the other day as well.

It is not only possible to enjoy the wins, yet point out the flaws and want to discuss fixing it, it's easy. The narritive that people want the offense to score more because "fantasy football" is a joke. So is the other extreme that Smith and this offense are the worst ever and can't get better.

[Mr. Plow]

It is not only possible to enjoy the wins, yet point out the flaws and want to discuss fixing it, it's easy. The narritive that people want the offense to score more because "fantasy football" is a joke. So is the other extreme that Smith and this offense are the worst ever and can't get better.

Exactly. :clap:


The fantasy football thing is hilarious every time someone says it. "Ooooh, you want yards and points because fantasy football!!1!11!" Ummm, no....I want yards and points to help win the games.

[DJ's left nut]

Same situation, other side of the ball...fortunately, I believe this offense has more talent and can succeed, but something seems to stifle it. It's like Andy has Marty disease "That play worked, so dont run it ever again".

I was listening to Tim Grunhard a couple of weeks ago regarding offensive philosophy.

He was talking about how some OC's have plays they want to get to. They'll spend a quarter or even just a few plays in a drive setting up a particular look they want to get or play they want to run. Essentially they'd throw waste pitches trying to get DCs to look for something else then they'd bust out their super duper play to try to burn 'em.

Then he talked about his first OC, Joe Pendry. He said (paraphrasing): "Nobody will ever say Joe Pendry was an offensive genius or the worlds smartest guy. But when he found something that worked, he'd keep going back to that well until the opponent found a way to beat it..."

Now he was making a straight up value judgment - Pendry's way was better. I'm not sure that I agree with him there. Pendry's way is probably a little antiquated these days as opposing DCs are playing the same kind of game of chess that the OC's are. The brilliant defensive minds are as likely to be setting you up. Moreover, with the wealth of film and available data now, those DCs already know what you're trying to do; by week 5, they know what works for you and are going to try to beat it.

The obvious answer is to have a little bit of both but I'm not convinced that Andy doesn't do exactly that when his guys are executing. I think he just tries to anticipate a little more. He'll run something that works twice or even three times, but he's not going to just let you jump the 4th; he's going to try to change up before you figure it out and stay ahead of your DC.

The problem right now isn't Andy Reid, it's execution. When Smith has made good throws, his guys aren't doing a great job bringing them in. When his blocking holds and the scheme works, Smith's not doing a great job consistently making on-target throws.

There's just not a shitload Reid can do right now with his offensive personnel playing some really erratic football. I think Reid ultimately trends towards that 'too clever by half' school, but he's not some mad tinkerer back there like Mike Martz was. He's a good offensive football coach that can either dumb things down in the hopes that it's good enough (as he did a bit last year) or he can keep his whole playbook in there and hope his guys push through it (which is going to be necessary to win the January).

It's a struggle that I think he's trying to work through for the long-term benefit of the squad.

[prhom]

I don't have the stats but this absolutely has a shit ton to do with it.

Alex had 500 yards rushing in 16 games last season. This year, in 8 games, he's got 44.

It's seriously like night and day and I'm not sure what's going on. He seems slower for sure but does anyone lose that much speed in one offseason? I think he may be a bit scared to take a hit this year as well.

I think it has to be a major part of our apparent regression this year. We are in the bottom of the league this year in third down conversion rate and that really hurts our ability to play our style of football. We have to be able to be able to convert third downs and keep opposing offenses off the field.

Our conversion rate has been abysmal over the last two weeks but I think that's mostly due to not having a fully healthy Ware or West, committing tons of penalties on offense and what feels like an unusually high number of dropped passes. I'm not making excuses for Smith or Foles, but I think if we can eliminate those things and get Ware/West back to normal we should be okay. Okay for us is not a high flying, high scoring offense, but one that takes care of the defense, capitalizes on short fields from turnovers, and wins the TOP and field position battles.

I feel like if we can get 20 points on the board, control the clock, and be even to plus on turnovers we can and probably will win every game left except for Atlanta. Probably need more than one turnover to beat them.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't have the stats but this absolutely has a shit ton to do with it.

Alex had 500 yards rushing in 16 games last season. This year, in 8 games, he's got 44.

It's seriously like night and day and I'm not sure what's going on. He seems slower for sure but does anyone lose that much speed in one offseason? I think he may be a bit scared to take a hit this year as well.

He had a scramble last week where he just trotted towards the sideline for 4 yards that clearly looked like he was trying to avoid a hit.

But in prior weeks, he's simply not had the speed/quickness to get clear.

You don't have to lose that much speed to become ineffective. Think of how often one step makes the difference in getting a corner. That step is gone. I really do think it's a declining athleticism thing.

So he needs to get his arm figured out in a hurry because I don't think he's capable of playing like he did last year.

[vailpass]

I'm not sure you or others understand what discussion really is.

Simply pointing to the QB or offense and claiming they iz teh suxxorz is not really discussion. It's just a daily repeated comment that we all have heard a million times.

Discuss ways to make the offense better with what we have. Or maybe, just shut your ****ing little minds off till Sunday, since they are not conducive of real discussion? Sometimes less.. really is more.

Will you still be by Alex's side when the CTE sets in a few years from now?

[prhom]

That's a good point. Just looking at the overall rushes from Smith from 2015 & 2016......

In 2015, he had 84 rushes (most in his career) for 498 yards in 16 games. He averaged a little over 5 rushes per game.

In 2016, he has 23 rushes for 44 yards in 8 games. That averages to just under 3 rushes per game.

A lot fewer rushes and wayyy less yards. We haven't found a replacement for that production either.

[KCTitus]

...The problem right now isn't Andy Reid, it's execution. When Smith has made good throws, his guys aren't doing a great job bringing them in. When his blocking holds and the scheme works, Smith's not doing a great job consistently making on-target throws.

There's just not a shitload Reid can do right now with his offensive personnel playing some really erratic football. I think Reid ultimately trends towards that 'too clever by half' school, but he's not some mad tinkerer back there like Mike Martz was. He's a good offensive football coach that can either dumb things down in the hopes that it's good enough (as he did a bit last year) or he can keep his whole playbook in there and hope his guys push through it (which is going to be necessary to win the January).

It's a struggle that I think he's trying to work through for the long-term benefit of the squad.

I dont disagree with this, but I will say that it seems at time Andy tries to be too smart and winds up putting this offense into situations where they're behind the chains, 3rd and 8, 10, 10+ and this offense isnt set up to overcome that.

Also, if you find something that's working, you force the defense to stop it...if you want to 'waste pitches' setting up a play, you can certainly waste a pitch or two going back to a play that got you 5/6 yards a clip.

[RunKC]

Foles missed 2 TDs last week, Smith missed 2 more this week.

That's 4 offensive scores that came off the board because the quarterbacks didn't hit relatively routine throws.

Andy Reid hasn't been the problem. They need better play from the quarterback in a big, big way.

Andy needs to admit fault and move on. If anything, he needs to release Alex next year if he continues to play like this.

Is Foles really $7 million worse than Alex? I don't think so.

The worst part is that this draft apparently sucks ass for QB's this year.

[Reerun_KC]

Andy needs to admit fault and move on. If anything, he needs to release Alex next year if he continues to play like this.

Is Foles really $7 million worse than Alex? I don't think so.

The worst part is that this draft apparently sucks ass for QB's this year.

Thats every year for the conservative parking lot bbq fans....

[DJ's left nut]

I dont disagree with this, but I will say that it seems at time Andy tries to be too smart and winds up putting this offense into situations where they're behind the chains, 3rd and 8, 10, 10+ and this offense isnt set up to overcome that.

Also, if you find something that's working, you force the defense to stop it...if you want to 'waste pitches' setting up a play, you can certainly waste a pitch or two going back to a play that got you 5/6 yards a clip.

I think you're underestimating modern defenses abilities to put a stop to that 5/6 yards/play in a hurry.

I think Reid does exactly what you're saying but tries to keep that successful play in reserve for as long as possible until it's really needed.

The game that best demonstrated that was the Charles game against the Raiders where Reid just unleashed Charles on those poor bastards and at no point throughout the game did they show even a slight ability to stop it. He did it with Kelce against the Texans last year as well.

In the end, I think simply recognizes when the defense has adjusted to try to stop it a little better than you or I. That or he's just a little more sensitive to the possibility that they have already.

[DJ's left nut]

Andy needs to admit fault and move on. If anything, he needs to release Alex next year if he continues to play like this.

Is Foles really $7 million worse than Alex? I don't think so.

The worst part is that this draft apparently sucks ass for QB's this year.

I don't think there's 'fault' to admit. The Alex Smith that ran this offense last year was absolutely capable of winning a Super Bowl. And with an offensive line that added both talent and time together, there was every reason to believe that the offense could take another step forward.

But Smith's simply not playing well this year. If he doesn't find his groove again, alternative should be considered. Do you have any reason to believe they won't be? Reid's pulled the trigger on more successful quarterbacks than Alex Smith; if Smith is the reason they don't reach their highest potential this year, I see no reason to believe Reid won't look to do so again.

[Halfcan]

How is the offense supposed to gel with a qb like Alex. He is having a horrible year.

[RunKC]

I don't think there's 'fault' to admit. The Alex Smith that ran this offense last year was absolutely capable of winning a Super Bowl. And with an offensive line that added both talent and time together, there was every reason to believe that the offense could take another step forward.

But Smith's simply not playing well this year. If he doesn't find his groove again, alternative should be considered. Do you have any reason to believe they won't be? Reid's pulled the trigger on more successful quarterbacks than Alex Smith; if Smith is the reason they don't reach their highest potential this year, I see no reason to believe Reid won't look to do so again.

I agree that he will at some point, but I am nervous he will stick with Alex for the next year or 2 while he's playing like this.

FWIW I really like the UNC QB Trubisky. He seems like a good fit for us

[Simply Red]

we'll be fine.

[CupidStunt]

No it doesn't. Anyone paying any attention and who knows dick about football knows this fluky fool's gold team isn't going anywhere. For anyone else, anyone who ACTUALLY thinks the Chiefs are going places, well, they're just blind to begin with.

And it is SUCH a shame. Put a real QB back there, get Houston back to toughen up the soft D, and we could make actual noise. The Pats will wipe their ass with us, just like the Steelers did.

[DJ's left nut]

How is the offense supposed to gel with a qb like Alex. He is having a horrible year.

You're sort of begging the question here.

If he continues to play like this, it can't. By asking how they can gel around Smith if Smith continue to be terrible, you're answering your question as you ask it.

Smith can't continue to be terrible. His history here is strange in that he's always had a tendency to flip the switch a bit in the 2nd half and play better football even if the team around him starts to play worse. Well he absolutely has to do that again because if he doesn't, this team's probably dead in the water.

They won't have the NFL bailing them out to send him riding off into the sunset like the Broncos had last year. Smith needs to get back to his 2015 level of performance and if he does this team can absolutely gel around him and kick some serious ass in the post-season.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

They didn't score TDs but they did drive the ball down the field several times in the second half that gave our defense adequate rest and still resulted in points.
The kelce jump ball overthrow was just that because of Kuechly leaping thru the A Gap and nearly swatting the ball. The conley miss was pitiful but nowhere near as bad as Foles' wide open 5 yard miss . Our receivers also dropped five passes.

[KCTitus]

...In the end, I think [Reid] simply recognizes when the defense has adjusted to try to stop it a little better than you or I. That or he's just a little more sensitive to the possibility that they have already.

Heh...I'm no genious (Chiefsplanet Spelling), never claimed to be. Seems to me many of the rather conservative play calls tend to bring the defense up to the LOS and as such, they stop working and I see no consistent attempt to push those safeties or db's back from the LOS. Ive heard the various commentators talk about this and I tend to agree.

Maybe they're all wrong and Reid is right and he's saving all his special plays for the playoffs. I guess we'll see...

[threebag]

https://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Thank+you+for+seeing+things+my+way+_661dad6c88c7ce5ca50e572083948644.gif

[DaneMcCloud]

The problem right now isn't Andy Reid, it's execution. When Smith has made good throws, his guys aren't doing a great job bringing them in. When his blocking holds and the scheme works, Smith's not doing a great job consistently making on-target throws.

It's a struggle that I think he's trying to work through for the long-term benefit of the squad.

This is the meat of the matter: As Reid has said several times this season, the offense was "just a tick off".

The timing and execution has, for the most part, been off all season. The second half of the San Diego game was amazing, which was followed up by a complete lack of execution in Houston. Maclin was way off, Smith and Ware were off, mainly because his guards, Ehinger and LDT, were replaced by Fulton and Reid, and they could never get on track.

The offense has performed much better with Ehinger at LG but that's out the window now. Alex came out smokin' hot against Indy, then suffered the two "non-concussions". Foles was in sync that day but out of sync against the Jags. There was a combination of failures in Carolina by both Smith and his receivers. There's just been no consistency to the offense this season, whatsoever.

As I had mentioned earlier, the Chiefs signed Mike Person, another player who began his career in Seattle and started 14 games for the Falcons last year. Is he better than Fulton at LG? I have no idea. But the holes have been smaller for Ware and the pass protection not as good since Ehinger's injury so if Fulton doesn't improve, the Chiefs will need to find out.

But in order for the Chiefs to make a deep playoff run, the offense will need to be in sync and so far, that hasn't happened from week to week.

[Red Dawg]

You're sort of begging the question here.

If he continues to play like this, it can't. By asking how they can gel around Smith if Smith continue to be terrible, you're answering your question as you ask it.

Smith can't continue to be terrible. His history here is strange in that he's always had a tendency to flip the switch a bit in the 2nd half and play better football even if the team around him starts to play worse. Well he absolutely has to do that again because if he doesn't, this team's probably dead in the water.

They won't have the NFL bailing them out to send him riding off into the sunset like the Broncos had last year. Smith needs to get back to his 2015 level of performance and if he does this team can absolutely gel around him and kick some serious ass in the post-season.

The 2015 level wasn't good either. I remember the defense bailing the offense out numerous times. In Balt, Browns, SD at home, at Denver, at Oakland.

He was better but it certainly wasn't good.

[DJ's left nut]

The 2015 level wasn't good either. I remember the defense bailing the offense out numerous times. In Balt, Browns, SD at home, at Denver, at Oakland.

He was better but it certainly wasn't good.

If you think he has to be Tom Brady or we're fucked, you should probably just turn out the lights and head home.

The 2015 version of Alex Smith was an above average quarterback who helped his team win in several different ways. That version was good enough to win a championship.

His ceiling is maybe 5% higher than what he was last year. And last year he was responsible for 4,000 yards of total offense, completed 2/3 of his pass attempts and averaged roughly 7.5 yards per pass attempt. That's some pretty good quarterback play.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Foles missed 2 TDs last week, Smith missed 2 more this week.

That's 4 offensive scores that came off the board because the quarterbacks didn't hit relatively routine throws.

Andy Reid hasn't been the problem. They need better play from the quarterback in a big, big way.

The Conley miss in the left end zone was a big mess. The overthrow on kelce was a pass that had to be adjusted with Kuechly contesting the pass unblocked.

Some others were upset about missing kelce wide open in the left end zone but Conley was the primary read with one on one coverage. Before the play even developed the was a corner and safety over the top covering Kelce's route so you can't blame the QB for putting his focus on Conley

[DaneMcCloud]

I remember the defense bailing the offense out numerous times. In Balt, Browns, SD at home, at Denver, at Oakland.

LMAO

The Chiefs were up 29-0 at Denver before they pulled Manning. They whipped the Chargers 33-3 in San Diego, beat the Ravens 34-14, beat the Raiders 34-20.

Your memory sucks.

Also, it's TEAM SPORT. When the TEAM chooses to lopsidedly spend a decade's worth of FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICES on ONE SIDE OF THE BALL, that side generally performs better.

2005: Derrick Johnson
2006: Tamba Hali
2008: Glenn Dorsey
2009: Tyson Jackson
2010: Eric Berry
2012: Dontarie Poe
2014: Dee Ford
2015: Marcus Peters
2016: Chris Jones (technically a 2nd but the Chiefs first selection)

Look familiar?

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

The missed pass in the end zone to Conley was BAD.

https://s16.postimg.org/y8h5j6vdh/Screen_Shot_2016_11_13_at_11_53_47_PM.png


But the overthrow on Kelce probably would've been batted down if he hadn't thrown it the way he did with Luke Kuechly coming in hot ...


https://s16.postimg.org/z3tu06ihh/Kelcemiss.png
Here

[Sandy Vagina]

The Conley miss in the left end zone was a big mess. The overthrow on kelce was a pass that had to be adjusted with Kuechly contesting the pass unblocked.

Some others were upset about missing kelce wide open in the left end zone but Conley was the primary read with one on one coverage. Before the play even developed the was a corner and safety over the top covering Kelce's route so you can't blame the QB for putting his focus on Conley

Last part is certainly true. It would be nice if the lesson learned for Andy is, make Kelce the ****ing primary read on 80% of the plays. That hasn't been happening, and Kelce is often open but never looked at before the ball is out.

No excuse for Smith missing that other Kelce TD pass. No excuse on the Conley miss either. Alex Smith... veteran and all.. should be showing better footwork and composure. He needs to fix this, or get the **** retired already.

[DJ's left nut]

The Conley miss in the left end zone was a big mess. The overthrow on kelce was a pass that had to be adjusted with Kuechly contesting the pass unblocked.

Some others were upset about missing kelce wide open in the left end zone but Conley was the primary read with one on one coverage. Before the play even developed the was a corner and safety over the top covering Kelce's route so you can't blame the QB for putting his focus on Conley

The problem with the throw to Conley is that the throw wasn't there.

I'm usually the first person to make this argument; if the read isn't initially at the busted coverage, there's just no way to expect him to just assume that somebody fucked up.

But on that play, Conley was covered. He should've looked at Conley, saw that his first read wasn't there and then moved away. If he had, Kelce was likely his second read. If he moved through his progression, he actually sees the busted coverage. Instead he hurried the play and threw to a covered receiver. It was a bad play by Smith.

And Smith should've still hit the throw to Kelce on the overthrow. Stand in, take the hit and finish the drive. It wasn't the easiest play, but it was still no worse than an average pitch and catch that a championship team has to be able to hit.

He left 2 scores on the board through those 3 failed plays and he needed to have hit at least 2 of them.

[Sandy Vagina]

hey Tiger... just saw that pic. Shit dude, you appear to be right about that Kelce EZ pass.

anyone have an honest, adjusted opinion on that one now?

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not sure how you believe that set of photos supports your argument.

I see plenty of pocket to stand in and about 9 square feet of clear catch radius that the ball simply isn't in.

Smith fucked that throw up - full stop.

[DJ's left nut]

hey Tiger... just saw that pic. Shit dude, you appear to be right about that Kelce EZ pass.

anyone have an honest, adjusted opinion on that one now?

You realize that two or three inches lower or to the left out of his hand will make a foot or more's difference by the time it gets to Kelce, right? Or that if he doesn't overheat the pass, it ends up floating down into Kelce's catch radius, yes?

Dude just missed.

[OctoberFart]

KC is fools gold. You guys know it too.

[KCTitus]

Also, it's TEAM SPORT. When the TEAM chooses to lopsidedly spend a decade's worth of FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICES on ONE SIDE OF THE BALL, that side generally performs better.

2005: Derrick Johnson
2006: Tamba Hali
2007: Dwayne Bowe
2008: Glenn Dorsey and Branden Albert
2009: Tyson Jackson
2010: Eric Berry
2011: Jon Baldwin
2012: Dontarie Poe
2013: Eric Fisher
2014: Dee Ford
2015: Marcus Peters
2016: Chris Jones (technically a 2nd but the Chiefs first selection)

Look familiar?

Given the state of the defense in 2003, it's not all that surprising that KC did go more defensive initially. I'm not sure if you did it on purpose, but I noticed a few holes in the above...so I added them in bold. It certainly looks more balanced.

[Easy 6]

Count me among those who wont have their fandom questioned just because they're dissatisfied with various aspects of team performance... the offense is sucking out loud lately and theres nothing wrong with pointing it out

1 touchdown in 7 quarters, that's just plain awful... without this defense playing like its hair is on fire, we're .500 at best

[Sandy Vagina]

You realize that two or three inches lower or to the left out of his hand will make a foot or more's difference by the time it gets to Kelce, right? Or that if he doesn't overheat the pass, it ends up floating down into Kelce's catch radius, yes?

Dude just missed.


If he missed, he missed. I didn't remember a great LB jumping into his pass lane like that, so it opens up any? possibility that this is why the pass was too high. Would need to see the coverage to determine whether a lofted pass would alow a defender to get underneath it in time.

Heck whatever. I'm fine calling it a miss and moving on.

Alex needs to play better or he will have no one left that wants him starting for the Chiefs.

[Eleazar]

Play calling is about 2/3 of the offense's problems. Reid is terrible at it.

Lack of playmakers in the lineup on Sundays is most of the rest. With so many people ailing, injured, inactive, or missing time during the games, from snap to snap we don't have a lot of weapons out there for long stretches.

Rationalize it however you want, but our best weapon in the passing game has less than 500 yards this season, only 3 TDs, and a talent for drops and concentration lapses.

The guy who set franchise records for WRs last year has only 30 receptions this year, only 2 TDs, and can't be depended on to be healthy week to week.

Ware was great last year but has issues with concussions and ball security this year.

Conley is encouraging but it's Week 11 and he has 300 yards and zero touchdowns.

We have only an average level of talent on offense, and it's being hampered by poor play calling and basically everyone underachieving.

That's ALL on the head coach.

[KINGPIN CHIEFS FAN]

If the offense doesn't get better they won't win in January's big games. They sure as shit ain't going into NE and winning with a pop gun offense.

It's time to stop playing like scared pussies and get their shit together

Relax, Alex is to January what Reggie Jackson is to October.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

If he missed, he missed. I didn't remember a great LB jumping into his pass lane like that, so it opens up any? possibility that this is why the pass was too high. Would need to see the coverage to determine whether a lofted pass would alow a defender to get underneath it in time.

Heck whatever. I'm fine calling it a miss and moving on.

Alex needs to play better or he will have no one left that wants him starting for the Chiefs.
The announcers failed to mention this during the game. Kuechly was untouched coming thru the gap so Smith wanted to at least give it a chance.

DJ- that kelce wide open miss is a typical Smith read for first down, try to create a 2nd and short yardage scenario.. threw the ball in a spot only Conley could get it. It's the risk averse side of him that we just have to accept.

[Beef Supreme]

If he missed, he missed. I didn't remember a great LB jumping into his pass lane like that, so it opens up any? possibility that this is why the pass was too high. Would need to see the coverage to determine whether a lofted pass would alow a defender to get underneath it in time.

Heck whatever. I'm fine calling it a miss and moving on.

Alex needs to play better or he will have no one left that wants him starting for the Chiefs.

Only an idiot sees that LB as "in his passing lane." This is the NFL, QBs have to make throws with way less pocket than this.

[DJ's left nut]

The announcers failed to mention this during the game. Kuechly was untouched coming thru the gap so Smith wanted to at least give it a chance.

DJ- that kelce wide open miss is a typical Smith read for first down, try to create a 2nd and short yardage scenario.. threw the ball in a spot only Conley could get it. It's the risk averse side of him that we just have to accept.

That wasn't an open throw for a second and short. It was a high risk, low reward pass into coverage because his internal clock just wasn't fast enough on Sunday.

If 'typical Smith' on first down is "Fuck my progression, I'm throwing it to the first guy I see, open or not", then Smith needs to be replaced.

I don't believe that's how he tends to operate but on that day he did. If that's a throw he doesn't start seeing and hitting when his first read is covered, he has no business being a starting NFL quarterback.

[ModSocks]

The quote that always pops in my head when discussing Alex Smith:

"No QB in the NFL is asked to do less than Alex Smith".

Don't remember the name of the talking head that said it, but it was a few seasons ago.

[Sandy Vagina]

The quote that always pops in my head when discussing Alex Smith:

"No QB in the NFL is asked to do less than Alex Smith".

Don't remember the name of the talking head that said it, but it was a few seasons ago.

Does seem to be the case. So if indeed true.. why is he the 2nd? 3rd? highest paid Chief?

Why did they bother? couldn't any QB be the 3rd highest win % QB over these 5 years with great D and STs?

[Beef Supreme]

Does seem to be the case. So if indeed true.. why is he the 2nd? 3rd? highest paid Chief?

Why did they bother? couldn't any QB be the 3rd highest win % QB over these 5 years with great D and STs?

We were asking that question when they traded for him. Asked again when they extended him. Still asking.

[DJ's left nut]

We were asking that question when they traded for him. Asked again when they extended him. Still asking.

Eli Manning - the patron saint of bomb throwing lunatics - answered your question for you.

Manning was getting waxed a few years back and the Giants were losing routinely. He was asked what they need to do to improve and his answer was (paraphrasing) "My bad cannot continue to be this bad".

You act like all quarterbacks have the ability to go out there on shit days and not detonate their squad. They don't - at all. A great deal many quarterbacks are capable and somehow all to willing of single-handedly destroying their team's ability to win a football game.

Eli Manning will do that. Jay Cutler will do that. Ryan Fitzpatrick and even Phillip Rivers will do that (and I love me some Phillip Rivers).

Alex Smith, as milquetoast as he is, doesn't really do that. Now there's certainly some damning with faint praise here but you asked the question and that's the answer.

The reason the Chiefs acquired Smith and extended him is because his bad isn't as bad as most. On days that Alex Smith is shit, he still gives his team a chance to win. On days that Jay Cutler or Eli Manning are shit - those teams are toast. The Chiefs chose floor over ceiling and when you look at just how low the floor is for a half or more of the quarterbacks in this league, you can start to understand the argument.

[DaneMcCloud]

Given the state of the defense in 2003, it's not all that surprising that KC did go more defensive initially. I'm not sure if you did it on purpose, but I noticed a few holes in the above...so I added them in bold. It certainly looks more balanced.

I did it "on purpose" to show the disparity in picks.

So great, the Chiefs took two left tackles and two WR's in the first round since 2005. Albert and Fisher are about a wash, Baldwin was a pure bust and Bowe a good 2nd receiver.

Only ONE of those players is currently on the roster.

On the other hand, we have multiple Pro Bowlers that are still on the roster from 2005. Hell, this year alone, 3 out of the first 4 picks were defensive and they didn't choose a skill position player until the late 4th.

For whatever reason, this franchise concentrates their efforts on the defensive side of the football so it should be no surprise that the offense continually struggles.

[Beef Supreme]

Eli Manning - the patron saint of bomb throwing lunatics - answered your question for you.

Manning was getting waxed a few years back and the Giants were losing routinely. He was asked what they need to do to improve and his answer was (paraphrasing) "My bad cannot continue to be this bad".

You act like all quarterbacks have the ability to go out there on shit days and not detonate their squad. They don't - at all. A great deal many quarterbacks are capable and somehow all to willing of single-handedly destroying their team's ability to win a football game.

Eli Manning will do that. Jay Cutler will do that. Ryan Fitzpatrick and even Phillip Rivers will do that (and I love me some Phillip Rivers).

Alex Smith, as milquetoast as he is, doesn't really do that. Now there's certainly some damning with faint praise here but you asked the question and that's the answer.

The reason the Chiefs acquired Smith and extended him is because his bad isn't as bad as most. On days that Alex Smith is shit, he still gives his team a chance to win. On days that Jay Cutler or Eli Manning are shit - those teams are toast. The Chiefs chose floor over ceiling and when you look at just how low the floor is for a half or more of the quarterbacks in this league, you can start to understand the argument.

I don't disagree with this, but it's funny that you name two QBs who won Superbowls in the recent past. And I'm not asking for a bomb throwing lunatic, just somebody that will throw a forward pass. A high floor is great and all, but when his average play is just one small step above the floor, I'm not sure what that gets you. We've all seen Alex play pretty well. He just doesn't do it very often.

[DaneMcCloud]

Count me among those who wont have their fandom questioned just because they're dissatisfied with various aspects of team performance... the offense is sucking out loud lately and theres nothing wrong with pointing it out

1 touchdown in 7 quarters, that's just plain awful... without this defense playing like its hair is on fire, we're .500 at best

Russell Wilson has 10 TD's this year having played one more game than Alex Smith due to injury.

Smith has 8 TD's.

Seattle's considered one of the best teams in the NFL and a possible Super Bowl contender yet their offense is struggling, too.

It's the NFL. Shit happens.

[KCTitus]

...For whatever reason, this franchise concentrates their efforts on the defensive side of the football so it should be no surprise that the offense continually struggles.

I disagree...the fact that the picks on defense have succeeded more so than the offensive picks be it first round or later round does not equate to 'concentrating on the defense' to the expense of the offense.

I want the club to take the best athlete on the board when their pick arrives, dont give one damn which side of the ball it is. Some pan out, some dont...the draft is a crap shoot.

[DaneMcCloud]

I disagree...the fact that the picks on defense have succeeded more so than the offensive picks be it first round or later round does not equate to 'concentrating on the defense' to the expense of the offense.

I want the club to take the best athlete on the board when their pick arrives, dont give one damn which side of the ball it is. Some pan out, some dont...the draft is a crap shoot.

Agree to disagree.

And no, the draft is not a "crapshoot", as John Dorsey's draft have proven year after year.

[Easy 6]

The reason the Chiefs acquired Smith and extended him is because his bad isn't as bad as most. On days that Alex Smith is shit, he still gives his team a chance to win. On days that Jay Cutler or Eli Manning are shit - those teams are toast. The Chiefs chose floor over ceiling and when you look at just how low the floor is for a half or more of the quarterbacks in this league, you can start to understand the argument.

That is a perfectly worded and perfectly fair assessment

Russell Wilson has 10 TD's this year having played one more game than Alex Smith due to injury.

Smith has 8 TD's.

Seattle's considered one of the best teams in the NFL and a possible Super Bowl contender yet their offense is struggling, too.

It's the NFL. Shit happens.

This is true as well, every team and its QB has their struggles, even the great ones... but in general, it does seem that Smith has these struggles far more often than other QBs, we have these kinds of offensive droughts every year

I'm not trying to jump on the "rag on Smith 24/7" train, I've always leaned toward the optimistic... it just seems like some of the guys here take a little more heat than necessary when they voice their frustration

[ThaVirus]

LMAO

The Chiefs were up 29-0 at Denver before they pulled Manning. They whipped the Chargers 33-3 in San Diego, beat the Ravens 34-14, beat the Raiders 34-20.

Your memory sucks.

Also, it's TEAM SPORT. When the TEAM chooses to lopsidedly spend a decade's worth of FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICES on ONE SIDE OF THE BALL, that side generally performs better.

2005: Derrick Johnson
2006: Tamba Hali
2008: Glenn Dorsey
2009: Tyson Jackson
2010: Eric Berry
2012: Dontarie Poe
2014: Dee Ford
2015: Marcus Peters
2016: Chris Jones (technically a 2nd but the Chiefs first selection)

Look familiar?


He's not entirely wrong.

We only beat the Chargers 10-3 in KC last season. Was that the game Houston scored the pick 6? I can't remember.

@ BAL we scored two defensive TDs.

@ DEN we interecepted Manning 5 times before he was pulled and the offense could only generate 29 points. Not a good day.

@ OAK we were down until we INT'd Carr 3 times in the 4th quarter. IIRC, Branch took one to the house, Mauga took one inside their 5 yard line, and Peters took one inside their 20.

I'm going off memory here but those were not what I would consider good offensive showings.

[MahiMike]

The difference between you and I (other than the fact that you are a colossal dipshit) is that I don't care. It's entertainment to me. They win, great. They lose, oh well. There are more important things in my life than basing my happiness on the fortunes of an NFL team.

This is what we've become.

[ThaVirus]

And someone already had that argument with you, Dane.

We may invest more picks in the defense, but we haven't been standing pat on the offensive side. Schwartz and Maclin were big FA signings. We traded two 2nds for Alex. Ware, Kelce and Morse have been producing like 1st rounders. Fish Daddy and LDT are playing well.

The offense should not be this bad.

[DaneMcCloud]

voice their frustration

Maybe because it's never ending bitching and trolling?

There isn't a single person that's watched the Chiefs this year that hasn't realized that the offense has had more than its fair of struggles. Some of that is personnel, some of that is play calling and some of it is just plain ol' bad luck.

There's absolutely no doubt that the offense needs to be more productive in the Red Zone and in terms of scoring points. But to continually lie the blame at the feet of the QB, when receivers dropped perfectly placed balls like Harris and Wilson and Maclin and even Kelce, it's time to realize that the poor performances by the offense aren't the fault of one player.

All of the skill position players are complicit.

[DaneMcCloud]

He's not entirely wrong.

We only beat the Chargers 10-3 in KC last season. Was that the game Houston scored the pick 6? I can't remember.

@ BAL we scored two defensive TDs.

@ DEN we interecepted Manning 5 times before he was pulled and the offense could only generate 29 points. Not a good day.

@ OAK we were down until we INT'd Carr 3 times in the 4th quarter. IIRC, Branch took one to the house, Mauga took one inside their 5 yard line, and Peters took one inside their 20.

I'm going off memory here but those were not what I would consider good offensive showings.

I swear to god, most of you guys expect this team to score 50 points when the defense does their job.

It's utterly unrealistic.

[Discuss Thrower]

And someone already had that argument with you, Dane.

We may invest more picks in the defense, but we haven't been standing pat on the offensive side. Schwartz and Maclin were big FA signings. We traded two 2nds for Alex. Ware, Kelce and Morse have been producing like 1st rounders. Fish Daddy and LDT are playing well.

The offense should not be this bad.

2011-2016 drafts: 26 offensive players to 23 defensive players selected in that span.

[KCTitus]

I swear to god, most of you guys expect this team to score 50 points when the defense does their job.

It's utterly unrealistic.

Wouldnt it be awesome, tho? :D

[DaneMcCloud]

And someone already had that argument with you, Dane.

Who?

We may invest more picks in the defense, but we haven't been standing pat on the offensive side. Schwartz and Maclin were big FA signings. We traded two 2nds for Alex. Ware, Kelce and Morse have been producing like 1st rounders. Fish Daddy and LDT are playing well.

The offense should not be this bad.

Schwartz has been nothing more than average. He's had some really, really bad games this year and the False Start penalties are utterly ridiculous.

Maclin's been invisible this year. He looks heavy and his hands suck. He was targeted 15 times against the Texans and had 6 catches for like 69 yards. Kelce just cost the Chiefs 30 yards in the Red Zone two weeks ago.

Again, the entire offense has been complicit in their failures.

[ThaVirus]

I swear to god, most of you guys expect this team to score 50 points when the defense does their job.

It's utterly unrealistic.


Not at all, but I do expect an offense to be able to drive the length of the field and score TDs.

For the most part, our offense has shown itself to be incapable of doing that on a consistent basis.

[KCTitus]

...Again, the entire offense has been complicit in their failures.

Yep...isnt that the point of the OP?

[Red Dawg]

LMAO

The Chiefs were up 29-0 at Denver before they pulled Manning. They whipped the Chargers 33-3 in San Diego, beat the Ravens 34-14, beat the Raiders 34-20.

Your memory sucks.

Also, it's TEAM SPORT. When the TEAM chooses to lopsidedly spend a decade's worth of FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICES on ONE SIDE OF THE BALL, that side generally performs better.

2005: Derrick Johnson
2006: Tamba Hali
2008: Glenn Dorsey
2009: Tyson Jackson
2010: Eric Berry
2012: Dontarie Poe
2014: Dee Ford
2015: Marcus Peters
2016: Chris Jones (technically a 2nd but the Chiefs first selection)

Look familiar?

Are you insane. Home game against SD defense saved us. In Balt defensive td's saved us. In Oakland a defensive TD and one that went to the one yard line saved us. Five int's in Denver did more than Smith.

[ThaVirus]

Who?



Schwartz has been nothing more than average. He's had some really, really bad games this year and the False Start penalties are utterly ridiculous.

Maclin's been invisible this year. He looks heavy and his hands suck. He was targeted 15 times against the Texans and had 6 catches for like 69 yards. Kelce just cost the Chiefs 30 yards in the Red Zone two weeks ago.

Again, the entire offense has been complicit in their failures.


Well you were talking about investment as if we were just leaving the offense to fend for itself and that's been so far from the truth.

At the same time that we're investing in the offense, we've had a rag tag group of defenders establish themselves as one of the best in the league.

One part of this team is not carrying its weight. That much is obvious.

[Mr. Plow]

I swear to god, most of you guys expect this team to score 50 points when the defense does their job.

It's utterly unrealistic.

I disagree that is what most of us want. During the Vermeil years everyone always said "Give us a middle of the road defense, and we can get to the Superbowl." To me, a lot of people are just saying the opposite - "Give us a middle of the road offense, and we can get to the Superbowl." I don't see anyone saying we need to score 50 points or have 700 yards of offense a game - or maybe I'm just missing those posts.

The defense gives up a lot of yards - but right now they are doing a great job at forcing turnovers. Ultimately, the defense is doing well in the one category that actually matters - points. They are like top 10 in points allowed which is great.

But right now we have a mid 20's offense and a low 20's defense. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more about of both.

[Valiant]

I was listening to Tim Grunhard a couple of weeks ago regarding offensive philosophy.

He was talking about how some OC's have plays they want to get to. They'll spend a quarter or even just a few plays in a drive setting up a particular look they want to get or play they want to run. Essentially they'd throw waste pitches trying to get DCs to look for something else then they'd bust out their super duper play to try to burn 'em.

Then he talked about his first OC, Joe Pendry. He said (paraphrasing): "Nobody will ever say Joe Pendry was an offensive genius or the worlds smartest guy. But when he found something that worked, he'd keep going back to that well until the opponent found a way to beat it..."

Now he was making a straight up value judgment - Pendry's way was better. I'm not sure that I agree with him there. Pendry's way is probably a little antiquated these days as opposing DCs are playing the same kind of game of chess that the OC's are. The brilliant defensive minds are as likely to be setting you up. Moreover, with the wealth of film and available data now, those DCs already know what you're trying to do; by week 5, they know what works for you and are going to try to beat it.

The obvious answer is to have a little bit of both but I'm not convinced that Andy doesn't do exactly that when his guys are executing. I think he just tries to anticipate a little more. He'll run something that works twice or even three times, but he's not going to just let you jump the 4th; he's going to try to change up before you figure it out and stay ahead of your DC.

The problem right now isn't Andy Reid, it's execution. When Smith has made good throws, his guys aren't doing a great job bringing them in. When his blocking holds and the scheme works, Smith's not doing a great job consistently making on-target throws.

There's just not a shitload Reid can do right now with his offensive personnel playing some really erratic football. I think Reid ultimately trends towards that 'too clever by half' school, but he's not some mad tinkerer back there like Mike Martz was. He's a good offensive football coach that can either dumb things down in the hopes that it's good enough (as he did a bit last year) or he can keep his whole playbook in there and hope his guys push through it (which is going to be necessary to win the January).

It's a struggle that I think he's trying to work through for the long-term benefit of the squad.

I am not sure I fully agree. Maybe bad to horrible teams need to worry about it. But the teams with elite players just go out and keep running the same play. They know their players will win the battles. The chiefs had that style with trent. Pats do the same.

Your offense gameplan should be based around your players and ways to get the ball to them. Our offense does not do that most of the time. I think that is 60%reid 40%alex on why that is.

When I watch other teams I am amazed that the top teir teams will make sure their stars get the attempts to them.

Here? They are decoys. This offense should be scary good if you spread them out.
Maclin, kelce, wr2 with ware or another rb in the backfield.
If they send extra to alex trust your wrs to win the 1on1.
If they drop back you have rbs coming out of the backfield.

I keep hearing how smart our qb is. This should be doable.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't disagree with this, but it's funny that you name two QBs who won Superbowls in the recent past. And I'm not asking for a bomb throwing lunatic, just somebody that will throw a forward pass. A high floor is great and all, but when his average play is just one small step above the floor, I'm not sure what that gets you. We've all seen Alex play pretty well. He just doesn't do it very often.

I named one - Eli. And Eli's sunk as many teams as he's carried. Eli's averaged 17 picks per 16 game season. He's had a below average QB rating for his career and a worse adjusted yards per attempt than Smith has had while in KC.

Eli is exactly the kind of guy that Reid wouldn't want; he's equally likely to lose you a game as he is to win you one. And if you're going to point to the Super Bowls, aren't you making the 'he just wins games!' argument that I think is pretty thoroughly debunked at this point?

Eli Manning is a different type of quarterback than Alex Smith but I still don't believe he's an obviously preferable one. Some kinds of coaches would prefer Eli's approach but many would prefer Smith's. In the end I think it's obvious that Reid would prefer a QB like Smith. Again, it just kinda is what it is.

[DJ's left nut]

I am not sure I fully agree. Maybe bad to horrible teams need to worry about it. But the teams with elite players just go out and keep running the same play. They know their players will win the battles. The chiefs had that style with trent. Pats do the same.

Your offense gameplan should be based around your players and ways to get the ball to them. Our offense does not do that most of the time. I think that is 60%reid 40%alex on why that is.

When I watch other teams I am amazed that the top teir teams will make sure their stars get the attempts to them.

Here? They are decoys. This offense should be scary good if you spread them out.
Maclin, kelce, wr2 with ware or another rb in the backfield.
If they send extra to alex trust your wrs to win the 1on1.
If they drop back you have rbs coming out of the backfield.

I keep hearing how smart our qb is. This should be doable.

Sorry, but that's just not accurate and if it's the premise of your discussion, there's not much debate to be had.

Nobody is so much better than their opponent in this league that they can just line up and physically abuse them. The line between success and failure is so razor thin that tactics truly do play a huge role and no, none of them just line up like it's Madden and run the ol' Post Corners play over and over again.

Nobody's so imposing that they can beat a guy that knows what's coming - absolutely no one.

[Beef Supreme]

I named one - Eli. And Eli's sunk as many teams as he's carried. Eli's averaged 17 picks per 16 game season. He's had a below average QB rating for his career and a worse adjusted yards per attempt than Smith has had while in KC.

Eli is exactly the kind of guy that Reid wouldn't want; he's equally likely to lose you a game as he is to win you one. And if you're going to point to the Super Bowls, aren't you making the 'he just wins games!' argument that I think is pretty thoroughly debunked at this point?

Eli Manning is a different type of quarterback than Alex Smith but I still don't believe he's an obviously preferable one. Some kinds of coaches would prefer Eli's approach but many would prefer Smith's. In the end I think it's obvious that Reid would prefer a QB like Smith. Again, it just kinda is what it is.

You named two. Joe Flacco. ** edit, my bad I could have sworn I read Flacco in that paragraph. ** And I also said I pretty much agreed with you and I didn't say I wanted Eli Manning or a QB like him or Flacco. None of that excuses the shit show that has been Alex Smith this season.

[Reerun_KC]

This offense reminds me of the Marty years...

Defense on the field, everyone glued to the TV...

Offense on the field, time to get a cold beer, pee break, grab some nachos, you got a few minutes of downtime before anything happens.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well you were talking about investment as if we were just leaving the offense to fend for itself and that's been so far from the truth.

Oh, but it IS the truth. Look at the offense that played the Panthers:

QB: Castoff 1st round pick 12 seasons ago
RB: 6th rounder in 2014. Picked up off of waivers
RB: UDFA
WR: UDFA (Wilson)
WR: 3rd round pick
WR: 5th round pick
TE: 3rd round pick
TE: UDFA
TE: 5th round pick
LT: 1st round pick
LG: 6th round pick
C: 2nd round pick
RG: 6th round pick
RT: 2nd round pick, FA signing

Now, contrast that with the Defense:

DE: 2nd round pick
DT: 1st round pick
DE: 2nd round pick (Reyes)
OLB: 1st round pick
ILB: 1st round pick
ILB: 4th round pick
OLB: 1st round pick
CB: 1st round pick
CB: 3rd round pick
SS: 1st round pick
FS: UDFA
S: UDFA

At the same time that we're investing in the offense, we've had a rag tag group of defenders establish themselves as one of the best in the league.

Rag tag defenders? Do you mean the defense with SIX 1st round picks and two 2nd rounders as starters?

Or the offense, which boasts a total of three 1st rounders, two of which were brought in from other teams and haven't performed well at all this year?

[DJ's left nut]

Um....calling Reyes a 2nd round pick is more than a little disingenuous. For the Chiefs purposes, he's a street free agent. They didn't 'invest' a damn thing in him.

Your point is a good one, but you make it less credible when you stretch it like that. Then again, you could also call Parker more than a UDFA given the financial commitment they made to him at FS. Or realize that a pretty big chunk of additional resources were allocated to Houston and Bailey who couldn't answer the bell.

It's hard to argue that the team hasn't put more capital, both draft and cap, into the defensive side of the ball.

[KCTitus]

...Or the offense, which boasts a total of three 1st rounders, two of which were brought in from other teams and haven't performed well at all this year?

but yet, the draft isnt a 'crapshoot'...

[KCTitus]

Let's look at the 2003 KC team, some might argue the opposite...

QB: 8th round pick (not KC)
RB: UDFA
FB: UDFA
WR: 1st round (not KC)
WR: 1st round (not KC)
TE: 1st round
LT: 1st round (not KC)
LG: UDFA
C: UDFA
RG: 3rd round
RT: 1st round

DE: UDFA
DE: 1st Round (not KC)
LDT: 3rd Round
NT: 1st Round
LOLB: 5th round
MLB: UDFA
ROLB: 4th Round (not KC)
LCB: 7th Round
RCB: 2nd Round (not KC)
FS: 1st Round
S: 3rd Round

So if we discount all picks not made by KC as castoffs or other teams junk, I'm not sure we can extrapolate that the offense was demonstrably better than the defense considering most of the picks were on the defensive side of the ball as well.

[DaneMcCloud]

Um....calling Reyes a 2nd round pick is more than a little disingenuous. For the Chiefs purposes, he's a street free agent. They didn't 'invest' a damn thing in him.

Sure, this is absolutely true, although I was just simply pointing out that the defense is populated with many more high round draft choices than the offense.

Had Bailey stayed healthy, that position could be replaced with a 3rd rounder.

Your point is a good one, but you make it less credible when you stretch it like that. Then again, you could also call Parker more than a UDFA given the financial commitment they made to him at FS. Or realize that a pretty big chunk of additional resources were allocated to Houston and Bailey who couldn't answer the bell.

It's hard to argue that the team hasn't put more capital, both draft and cap, into the defensive side of the ball.

The point that I was attempting to make was that the Chiefs have invested heavily in defense since 2005 and have very little invested in the offense, so it should be no surprise to see the offense is struggling.

I actually expect that trend to continue in 2017 but have hope it flips in 2018.

[ThaVirus]

Oh, but it IS the truth. Look at the offense that played the Panthers:

QB: Castoff 1st round pick 12 seasons ago
RB: 6th rounder in 2014. Picked up off of waivers
RB: UDFA
WR: UDFA (Wilson)
WR: 3rd round pick
WR: 5th round pick
TE: 3rd round pick
TE: UDFA
TE: 5th round pick
LT: 1st round pick
LG: 6th round pick
C: 2nd round pick
RG: 6th round pick
RT: 2nd round pick, FA signing

Now, contrast that with the Defense:

DE: 2nd round pick
DT: 1st round pick
DE: 2nd round pick (Reyes)
OLB: 1st round pick
ILB: 1st round pick
ILB: 4th round pick
OLB: 1st round pick
CB: 1st round pick
CB: 3rd round pick
SS: 1st round pick
FS: UDFA
S: UDFA



Rag tag defenders? Do you mean the defense with SIX 1st round picks and two 2nd rounders as starters?

Or the offense, which boasts a total of three 1st rounders, two of which were brought in from other teams and haven't performed well at all this year?


You're being more than a little disingenuous here describing Alex as a castoff and including our 3rd string TE but not a guy like RNR on the defensive side. You're not wrong; we have invested a bit more on the defensive side in the early rounds but we haven't just left the offense to fend for itself.

A 1st on the LT, two 2nds on the QB, a 3rd on the TE, big FA money on WR1 and RT, a 3rd on WR2, a 2nd on a gadget RB/WR hybrid, and various 2-5 rounders on the OL. Plus Knile was a 3rd rounder.

DJ and Tamba were 1st round picks like 10 years ago from 3-4 regimes prior. I'd hardly even count them as a recent investment.

This defense has definitely been rag tag at points. We've had plenty of seasons starting/playing FA street trash and UDFAs in Jamell Fleming, Jaye Howard, RNR, Ron Parker, Dan Sorensen, Tyvon Branch, Husain Abdullah, Ramik Wilson, Justin March, etc.

[DaneMcCloud]

You're being more than a little disingenuous here describing Alex as a castoff and including our 3rd string TE but not a guy like RNR on the defensive side. You're not wrong; we have invested a bit more on the defensive side in the early rounds but we haven't just left the offense to fend for itself.

I fully disagree. Plus, RNR is a rotation guy that was cut earlier this year and placed on the PS. Had Bailey not been injured, he'd still be on the PS. That said, the Chiefs did spend a 6th rounder on him so they have something invested.

A 1st on the LT, two 2nds on the QB, a 3rd on the TE, big FA money on WR1 and RT, a 3rd on WR2, a 2nd on a gadget RB/WR hybrid, and various 2-5 rounders on the OL. Plus Knile was a 3rd rounder.

The Chiefs spent zero first rounders on all of those players, other than Fisher. McCluster hasn't been with the Chiefs since 2013.

DJ and Tamba were 1st round picks like 10 years ago from 3-4 regimes prior.

I went back to 2005 for a reason but the philosophy has remained the same.

This defense has definitely been rag tag at points.

Not this year. Not much last year, either.

We've had plenty of seasons starting/playing FA street trash and UDFAs in Jamell Fleming, Jaye Howard, RNR, Ron Parker, Dan Sorensen, Tyvon Branch, Husain Abdullah, Ramik Wilson, Justin March, etc.

This is utter nonsense. Fleming was a 3rd rounder, Howard a 4th rounder, Tyvon Branch a 2nd rounder. They were waived by the teams that drafted them but that doesn't make them "trash". Last I checked, Howard signed a $10 million dollar deal, as did Branch. That's not "trash".

Also, Ramik Wilson was the Chiefs 2015 4th round selection. He's not trash. RNR was the Chiefs 2015 6th round selection. If they're both "trash", then Fulton, LDT, West and Ware are, too.

No argument on Wilson.

[threebag]

I realize most of you will have to check out Madden NFL 18 to get a true assessment of the club.

Warm up the 19" LCD virus

[ptlyon]

So are we winning the SB or not God dammit?

[Reerun_KC]

So are we winning the SB or not God dammit?

Yes!

[rtmike]

If the offense doesn't get better they won't win in January's big games. They sure as shit ain't going into NE and winning with a pop gun offense.

It's time to stop playing like scared pussies and get their shit together

And here I thought it was all Knile Davis' fault.

[Dartgod]

To be clear, I'm not satisfied with the offense. Just because I don't constantly bitch about it doesn't make me a homer.

It's not the message, but the messenger in this case.

[WolfmanJoe]

It's not just Alex Smith, although he has been reduced to bottom 5 production once again and is effectively sabotaging the careers of Travis Kelce and Chris Conley at this point. But it's not just our terrible QB.

The running game is also really kind of terrible this year.

25th by DVOA standards. Last year it was #1.

The offense hasn't had running backs go for over 100 yards combined in a MONTH.

Spencer Ware has scored TWO RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS this year. He's way better than that.

The offense probably isn't getting better. They've faced a bunch of crappy defenses and this is what they gave us.

The question is if Houston can elevate the defense to championship levels. That is the only chance this team has.

[Chiefs4TheWin]

if it isn't bad enough that our QB is in my opinion suspect, it "seems" like our drops this year have gone up even though I have no actual proof. I just notice it more this year.

Edit: I also think West has gone 60% larry johnson. he's riding right up the o line ass for 2 yards.

[Red Dawg]

It's not just Alex Smith, although he has been reduced to bottom 5 production once again and is effectively sabotaging the careers of Travis Kelce and Chris Conley at this point. But it's not just our terrible QB.

The running game is also really kind of terrible this year.

25th by DVOA standards. Last year it was #1.

The offense hasn't had running backs go for over 100 yards combined in a MONTH.

Spencer Ware has scored TWO RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS this year. He's way better than that.

The offense probably isn't getting better. They've faced a bunch of crappy defenses and this is what they gave us.

The question is if Houston can elevate the defense to championship levels. That is the only chance this team has.

Sadly, I have to agree but I still blame Alex a lot. He doesn't get the respect from defenses for reasons that have been discussed extensively. This affects the running game big time. There is no fear he will get the ball further than 15 yards so why not place everyone closer to the LOS.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They are now ranked No. 26 in offensive yards at 332.8 yards per game. The Chiefs have 16 offensive touchdowns, ranking them No. 27 in the league.

That is completely unacceptable on it's own, but when you factor in the terrible defenses we've faced? (especially versus the pass)

I was going to list all the shitty pass defenses we've faced, but it's easier to list the one good one we have.

Houston.

You could make an argument for Jacksonville, simply because of their ranking - but it's skewed because teams don't need to throw on them, they can run at will.

NYJ
CAR
SD
OAK
PITT
IND
NO

All 20th or worse in pass defense.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's not just Alex Smith, although he has been reduced to bottom 5 production once again and is effectively sabotaging the careers of Travis Kelce and Chris Conley at this point. But it's not just our terrible QB.

The running game is also really kind of terrible this year.

25th by DVOA standards. Last year it was #1.

The offense hasn't had running backs go for over 100 yards combined in a MONTH.

Spencer Ware has scored TWO RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS this year. He's way better than that.

The offense probably isn't getting better. They've faced a bunch of crappy defenses and this is what they gave us.

The question is if Houston can elevate the defense to championship levels. That is the only chance this team has.

Most of this stems from Andy Reid being a fucking dumbass.

Should we put the game in the hands of the checkdown QB, or give the ball to the beast who wears defenses down?

Ware has had ONE game with more than 20 carries this season.

ONE.

That's unacceptable.

He's had four games with 13 or fewer carries.

That's CRIMINAL.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

blah blah blah THROW IT DEEEEEEP.


FYP

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This thread delivers!

[Easy 6]

Most of this stems from Andy Reid being a ****ing dumbass.

Should we put the game in the hands of the checkdown QB, or give the ball to the beast who wears defenses down?

Ware has had ONE game with more than 20 carries this season.

ONE.

That's unacceptable.

He's had four games with 13 or fewer carries.

That's CRIMINAL.

Andy seems to feel that rolling with the obvious running identity of this offense, somehow lessens his stature as a passing game guru... its hard for me to find a different explanation

I love him, he has been an overall blessing for this team... but he is one proud and stubborn SOB

[jimidollar]

I still have faith the offense will improve this season starting with the TB game. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think the coaches know the defense can't save them every week. They'll make some tweeks and get it sorted out.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I still have faith the offense will improve this season starting with the TB game. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think the coaches know the defense can't save them every week. They'll make some tweeks and get it sorted out.

If the coaches knew the defense couldn't bail them out every week, this shit would have been addressed years ago.

[NWTF]

They have time to improve. Its true the O has been sputtering, and its kind of flown under the radar as the team just keeps winning. I wouldnt worry about it yet. Still half a season to fix some things, but it will need to be better come playoff time if they plan on going far.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

That wasn't an open throw for a second and short. It was a high risk, low reward pass into coverage because his internal clock just wasn't fast enough on Sunday.

If 'typical Smith' on first down is "**** my progression, I'm throwing it to the first guy I see, open or not", then Smith needs to be replaced.

I don't believe that's how he tends to operate but on that day he did. If that's a throw he doesn't start seeing and hitting when his first read is covered, he has no business being a starting NFL quarterback.

https://s14.postimg.org/xi5sikuip/KCCARMiss.png

The initial read at the line had Kelce running a route into 2-3 defenders so it's hard to blame him for not picking up a complete blown coverage with what the defense was showing him. It looks like he signals at the line that he is going to Conley as the defender is playing off of him

https://s14.postimg.org/62bprlt3l/AS11signal.png

He aligns his body giving the impression the throw is to Albert which lures the safety middle, although the intention is going to his primary which is Conley at the bottom on a 1 on 1 look. One could argue the defender draped Conley before the ball got there.

https://s22.postimg.org/hd5dax1w1/Earlycontact_Conley.png

Missed opportunity, yes, and maybe Smith was operating a little bit slower than usual but reviewing the film I can't really fault him for going for a possession throw that would have set us up for 2nd and 5.

[DJ's left nut]

That defender is crashing on Conley before Conley even starts his cut.

He's gotta come off that throw, especially when a better DB could've broken harder and housed it. That play had danger all over it. If you're inside the 20 and throwing outside the numbers (from the far hash, no less), you'd better have more than a 5 yard gain as your upshot.

It was a bad play, man. I think I've been damn evenhanded with my treatment of Smith for the last 3 years here but that was a bad play.

[Sandy Vagina]

I think we all know that Ware isn't the problem.

Let's face it, the OL is not the top 10 force we all hoped it to be.

Big problems via playcalling are when Andy gets too out of balance on run/pass... and when targets are being wasted on guys like Albert Wilson or Harris... and not designing plays where is Kelce the primary target on most pass plays.

The QB has always been doing this dink and dunk pass game.. so it's not as if only now do defenses crowd the line and shut down the run. Prior, Smith team's run game has been really good with guys like Gore, JC, and the others. Doesn't seem possible that only now has this dink and dunk made a negative impact on the run game.. when it never really had before.

The one thing I keep coming back to.. is the GM/HC/QB relationship.

If they want Alex to open the pass game up and take more shots down field... if they always wanted this.. (and how could they not, right?).. then WTF are they continuing to trot Alex Smith out there if he isn't giving them what they want????

The only logical answer I can see is.. that he is giving them what they want. (minus those infrequent and puzzling misses to wide open targets that the ball actually goes toward)

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

That defender is crashing on Conley before Conley even starts his cut.

He's gotta come off that throw, especially when a better DB could've broken harder and housed it. That play had danger all over it. If you're inside the 20 and throwing outside the numbers (from the far hash, no less), you'd better have more than a 5 yard gain as your upshot.

It was a bad play, man. I think I've been damn evenhanded with my treatment of Smith for the last 3 years here but that was a bad play.

It's also Reid's philosophy and something we saw Mcnabb go to frequently with Avant on short possession throws. The strategy makes sense, 2nd and 5 opens up the playbook and has defenses guessing whether to play nickle or to stop the run.

Wilson would have been a worse target and Shag the snail wasn't going to get any consideration in that play. I can understand that in Smith's head, the likelihood that Kelce wasn't going to be double teamed as the play developed was very slim

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think we all know that Ware isn't the problem.

Let's face it, the OL is not the top 10 force we all hoped it to be.

Big problems via playcalling are when Andy gets too out of balance on run/pass... and when targets are being wasted on guys like Albert Wilson or Harris... and not designing plays where is Kelce the primary target on most pass plays.

The QB has always been doing this dink and dunk pass game.. so it's not as if only now do defenses crowd the line and shut down the run. Prior, Smith team's run game has been really good with guys like Gore, JC, and the others. Doesn't seem possible that only now has this dink and dunk made a negative impact on the run game.. when it never really had before.

The one thing I keep coming back to.. is the GM/HC/QB relationship.

If they want Alex to open the pass game up and take more shots down field... if they always wanted this.. (and how could they not, right?).. then WTF are they continuing to trot Alex Smith out there if he isn't giving them what they want????

The only logical answer I can see is.. that he is giving them what they want. (minus those infrequent and puzzling misses to wide open targets that the ball actually goes toward)

No offense, no sarcasm - but this may be the best point you've made in your time here. Kelce especially is being criminally underused at the expense of getting slapdicks like Harris and Wilson involved.

Well done.

[O.city]

Ware has been banged up recently. Before, the raider game, saints and preinjury indy, he was running pretty well.

I'm all about finding the open guy, but they need the ball in maclin and Kelce and hill and wares hands.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

But Conley is turning into a solid possession receiver. A year ago he was pulling in 55% of targets, this year he's at 66% with 12 yards the average gain.

Harris, Shag and Wilson are most definitely decoys. This is where having Maclin on the field is so important in having 3-4 reliable targets (Maclin, Kelce, Conley, Hill) on the field and Ware as a hot route in case the blitz comes in.

We have some good pass defenses ahead of us on the schedule but also some softer games to build better chemistry before the playoffs, assuming we get in.

[Easy 6]

No offense, no sarcasm - but this may be the best point you've made in your time here. Kelce especially is being criminally underused at the expense of getting slapdicks like Harris and Wilson involved.

Well done.

You and Sandy are 100% correct IMO

Spreading it around against certain situations/teams is great, but Reid and Smith need to remember their stars... if they keep being ignored, it threatens to mentally take them out of the game to an extent

We've all seen it over and over... Smith flat out doesn't even look at them wide open, and their body language literally wilts, throwing up their hands, shaking their heads etc

We can talk about playcalling and situational football all day long... but at the end of the day it doesn't absolve Smith from blame

[NJChiefsFan]

Most of this stems from Andy Reid being a ****ing dumbass.

Should we put the game in the hands of the checkdown QB, or give the ball to the beast who wears defenses down?

Ware has had ONE game with more than 20 carries this season.

ONE.

That's unacceptable.

He's had four games with 13 or fewer carries.

That's CRIMINAL.

And if I remember correctly the 20 carry game was in Oakland, our most impressive game of the season.

[oaklandhater]

I still have faith the offense will improve this season starting with the TB game. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think the coaches know the defense can't save them every week. They'll make some tweeks and get it sorted out.

We will look just like trash vs TB I I'm willing to bet on it.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Why put Ware in harm's way more than we need to? He's already shown susceptibility to injury and we already have Charles out for probably the season. Carolina's run defense is elite, there was no point in running him into a wall over and over again with Kuechly waiting on the other side

[oaklandhater]

Why put Ware in harm's way more than we need to? He's already shown susceptibility to injury and we already have Charles out for probably the season. Carolina's run defense is elite, there was no point in running him into a wall over and over again with Kuechly waiting on the other side

Charles is out forever for the chiefs if he ever plays again it will be with a different team.

[DaneMcCloud]

No offense, no sarcasm - but this may be the best point you've made in your time here. Kelce especially is being criminally underused at the expense of getting slapdicks like Harris and Wilson involved.

Well done.

I can somewhat understand Wilson being involved with Maclin out, even though I think he fucking sucks. I have no idea why Reid doesn't have DAT in that role but whatever.

Harris? The guy's chump. For a former basketballer, he has hands of stone. Ross Travis has issues with blocking and receiving, so I have no idea why isn't on the PS instead of the active roster.

And while I fully agree that Kelce has been underused, why isn't O'Shaughnessy getting more reps? He's never had an issue, at least that I can recall, with his hands and he's been an adequate blocker.

I'm not an "Anti-Reid" guy but his personnel groupings are often confounding.

[RunKC]

Charcandrick West has been below average this year as well. We really need to get another TE and RB in the draft

[oaklandhater]

Charcandrick West has been below average this year as well. We really need to get another TE and RB in the draft

Yeah if we could get Cook in the 2nd or 3rd I would be ecstatic


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_ne7dWC_eEk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Red Dawg]

Cook? He will be long gone when we pick.

[oaklandhater]

Cook? He will be long gone when we pick.

How many running backs go high in the 1st he might make it to mid 2nd round

[Sandy Vagina]

West is a fine RB2 behind Ware, and they're both locked up for a while. West just has to stop being a sideline-magnet lil bitch. Rubbed off on Ware a little too, as I remember Ware going out of bounds after a 3rd down catch, instead of plunging forward for the first.

I'd be disappointed if the Chiefs burn a day 1 or 2 pick on RB.

[threebag]

Why we kept Albert Wilson over Rod Streater fuck i would rather have Bowe back over Wilson.

[Sandy Vagina]

Why we kept Albert Wilson over Rod Streater **** i would rather have Bowe back over Wilson.

I'd rather Hammond over Wilson. ROFL ... yeah.. I said it.

[oaklandhater]

West is a fine RB2 behind Ware, and they're both locked up for a while. West just has to stop being a sideline-magnet lil bitch. Rubbed off on Ware a little too, as I remember Ware going out of bounds after a 3rd down catch, instead of plunging forward for the first.

I'd be disappointed if the Chiefs burn a day 1 or 2 pick on RB.

West is chicken we need a real back to take reps from Ware.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Wilson was more than decent for us last season. Plus he's cheap

[Chiefshrink]

Chiefs offense will rock in December. All the offensive weapons will be hitting on all cyclinders by then. Right now they are getting calibrated which makes sense. Freak and Conley only get better as time goes on. Reid and Smith trust them more and more which only gets better. Maclin will be 100% by then. Ware is healthy again. Kelce,Travis,Harris, and the Irishman, the most dynamic athletic TE group in the NFL. Oh yeah and the Defense finally healthy. Don't worry we are fine !!:thumb:

Calibration fellas takes time and it is coming together. December will be YUUUUUGE!:D

[DaneMcCloud]

Wilson was more than decent for us last season. Plus he's cheap

You're fucking stupid

[Sandy Vagina]

Wilson was more than decent for us last season. Plus he's cheap

he's shit. No more than a WR 4 on any respectable team.

I wouldn't mind him being on the team as bottom depth, but with Jmac, Conley, Hill, and even DAT... no.. Wilson should not be on the field. And NO pass should ever be attempted to him unless he is running a curl or crosser type of route. He sucks more the further he gets from the LOS and tracking a ball over his shoulder/head.

... and even then!!!! the ****ing gator arms will **** us. No, **** him. CUT HIM! MOTHER****!!!!!

[pugsnotdrugs19]

What the Saints offense is doing tonight makes me feel a little better about our offensive performance Sunday...

Carolina's defense is back to playing at a championship level and has been for 4 weeks now

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

You're ****ing stupid

Clear #3 receiver a year ago during that win streak... And that's if we are counting Kelce as a receiver

[DaneMcCloud]

Clear #3 receiver a year ago during that win streak...

He fucking sucked ass and I was all over his alligator armed ass all season long.

He's a fucking twat.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Wilson is decent for a screen pass and that's honestly it. DeMarcus Robinson and DAT should both be taking his reps from him if he doesn't seriously pick it up in the next week or 2.

[oaklandhater]

Chiefs offense will rock in December. All the offensive weapons will be hitting on all cyclinders by then. Right now they are getting calibrated which makes sense. Freak and Conley only get better as time goes on. Reid and Smith trust them more and more which only gets better. Maclin will be 100% by then. Ware is healthy again. Kelce,Travis,Harris, and the Irishman, the most dynamic athletic TE group in the NFL. Oh yeah and the Defense finally healthy. Don't worry we are fine !!:thumb:

Calibration fellas takes time and it is coming together. December will be YUUUUUGE!:D

One good game this entire season and it's only getting worse.....

[DaneMcCloud]

Wilson is decent for a screen pass and that's honestly it. DeMarcus Robinson and DAT should both be taking his reps from him if he doesn't seriously pick it up in the next week or 2.

Robinson? Based on what? He was garbage in preseason.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Robinson? Based on what? He was garbage in preseason.

You never know til you try. Preseason is a poor gauge. Ramik Wilson sucked then too.

[Easy 6]

Wilson is decent for a screen pass and that's honestly it. DeMarcus Robinson and DAT should both be taking his reps from him if he doesn't seriously pick it up in the next week or 2.

Screw the next week or two, dude... DAT or even Robinson can surely do more with those little screens and short throws than Wilson

I've watched quite a bit of football over the last 40 years, and I honestly cant recall a receiver so scared to take a lick... his hero Steve Smith laughs in his face

[DaneMcCloud]

You never know til you try. Preseason is a poor gauge. Ramik Wilson sucked then too.

And Ramik Wilson sucked and was cut.

He would have been on the PS all year had it not been for injury to March.

Fortunately, a switch was flipped with Wilson and he nutted up.

That doesn't mean that Robinson will suddenly become the #3 option.

Mutually exclusive.

[Easy 6]

Wilson was more than decent for us last season. Plus he's cheap

Wilson is a ****ing DOG, quit feeling the need to defend every damn thing this team does

[oaklandhater]

Wilson is a ****ing DOG, quit feeling the need to defend every damn thing this team does

This Wilson is ass.

Tiger you cult lackey.

[threebag]

http://i.imgur.com/03s9UA7.jpg?1

I would rather John Henry drive a mammoth railroad spike up SNR's ass than have Albert Wilson on this roster.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Wilson is a #4 receiver and better than what we suffered with in the recent past... Hemingway, Hammond, Williams

Quit the bitching

[DaneMcCloud]

Wilson is a #4 receiver and better than what we suffered with in the recent past... Hemingway, Hammond, Williams

Quit the bitching

STFU

The Chiefs WR corp sucks overall and Wilson is the worst by a wide margin

[Sandy Vagina]

I would rather John Henry drive a mammoth railroad spike up SNR's ass than have Albert Wilson on this roster.

Bad ass song, imho... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaCjPdtDBxo

[pugsnotdrugs19]

And Ramik Wilson sucked and was cut.

He would have been on the PS all year had it not been for injury to March.

Fortunately, a switch was flipped with Wilson and he nutted up.

That doesn't mean that Robinson will suddenly become the #3 option.

Mutually exclusive.

We aren't talking about the #3, we're talking the #4, or 5 if you include Kelce.

By now he's gotta have the playbook down. Far more talented than Wilson. Wouldn't doubt a bit if he isn't the 4th best WR on the team, though DAT could be too.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

STFU

The Chiefs WR corp sucks overall and Wilson is the worst by a wide margin

But for the money we are paying for our top 4 receivers, you could argue when healthy it's one of the best value

[DaneMcCloud]

But for the money we are paying for our top 4 receivers, you could argue when healthy it's one of the best value

:facepalm:

[DaneMcCloud]

We aren't talking about the #3, we're talking the #4, or 5 if you include Kelce

What in the mother of fuck?

[Reerun_KC]

But for the money we are paying for our top 4 receivers, you could argue when healthy it's one of the best value

This is where we need Clay... Youre getting way to cocky and annoying.

You need your cunt slapped.

[Reerun_KC]

What in the mother of ****?

I love when you talk dirty.

[threebag]

This is where we need Clay... Youre getting way to cocky and annoying.

You need your cunt slapped.

No. Not only No, but FUCK NO

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

:facepalm:

13 million for Tyreek, Conley, Wilson, and Maclin... That's just 12 percent of the cap. Dorsey done good.

[DaneMcCloud]

13 million for Tyreek, Conley, Wilson, and Maclin... That's just 12 percent of the cap. Dorsey done good.

Nope

[Reerun_KC]

No. Not only No, but **** NO

Hey! You slow your roll....

[pugsnotdrugs19]

What in the mother of ****?

What are you possibly confused about? Wilson right now is our #4 WR.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Nope

Stubborn.

[DaneMcCloud]

What are you possibly confused about? Wilson right now is our #4 WR.

Kelce isn't a WR

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Kelce isn't a WR

I was obviously referring to receiving threats. He's one of our top 2 receiving threats.

New England doesn't leave Gronkowski out of the conversation when they talk about their passing offense, I can promise you.

[threebag]

Albert Wilson is like going to a B-List Hollywood Key Party and Rosie O'Donnell picked your lock.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Hahaha

[DaneMcCloud]

I was obviously referring to receiving threats. He's one of our top 2 receiving threats.

New England doesn't leave Gronkowski out of the conversation when they talk about their passing offense, I can promise you.

What the fuck?

The subject was the Chiefs lack of WIDE RECEIVERS, NOT RECEIVING THREATS.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

What the ****?

The subject was the Chiefs lack of WIDE RECEIVERS, NOT RECEIVING THREATS.

No, the subject was you said Robinson couldn't step in and be our '#3 receiver', to which I say that by this point in the year he could definitely be our #4, which is what Wilson is. And when you consider our offense, that's really a #5 cause we never have 4 WRs on the field at once. Kelce takes that spot.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

And before you throw a bitch fit about how Kelce is a TE, don't forget that he lines up as a WR/slot just as much if not more.

[threebag]

our #4, which is what Wilson is.

A #4 is that 2 shits?

[O.city]

DAT should be getting more snaps imo, but who o ows what's going on there

[DaneMcCloud]

No, the subject was you said Robinson couldn't step in and be our '#3 receiver', to which I say that by this point in the year he could definitely be our #4, which is what Wilson is. And when you consider our offense, that's really a #5 cause we never have 4 WRs on the field at once. Kelce takes that spot.

Good lord, you taken on a lot of stupid lately

[threebag]

Albert Wilson short arming a pass only to go off his fingertips has to be _______________.

[DadLeft4Cigarettes]

abert wilson need to b cut as son as probable. soonr the better
been hurtin d they get tired out ther becuz he cunt catch it

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Good lord, you taken on a lot of stupid lately

Would love to hear your explanation there. Not sure one exists considering everything I said was true.

If you can't see that Kelce lines up as a WR or slot most of the time, you don't watch the games. No, he's not technically a 'WR', but his role in the offense is very much like one.

[DaneMcCloud]

Would love to hear your explanation there. Not sure one exists considering everything I said was true.

If you can't see that Kelce lines up as a WR or slot most of the time, you don't watch the games. No, he's not technically a 'WR', but his role in the offense is very much like one.

:facepalm:

[pugsnotdrugs19]

:facepalm:

That's literally all you've got. A face palm.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

:facepalm:

Watch Greg Olsen and how he lines up and what he does. It's fairly similar to Kelce.

They might be called TEs, but they are top 2 receivers in their respective offenses. Not hard to figure out.

[Easy 6]

DadLeft4Cigarettes has to be the best handle I've seen since maybe, ever

[DaneMcCloud]

That's literally all you've got. A face palm.

It's because you're "literally" fucking stupid.

Travis Kelce isn't the Chiefs 4th WR. He's their #1 Tight End.

NO combination of Kelce, Wilson and Conley will EVER equal the combo of Maclin, Kelce and Conley.

The fuck is wrong with you?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

It's because you're "literally" ****ing stupid.

Travis Kelce isn't the Chiefs 4th WR. He's their #1 Tight End.

NO combination of Kelce, Wilson and Conley will EVER equal the combo of Maclin, Kelce and Conley.

The **** is wrong with you?

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying whatsoever.

When have you ever saw a personnel package with Maclin, Conley, Hill and Wilson on the field without Kelce? You never have, because Kelce, as our TE, replaces the 4th WR as a receiving option. He lines up all over the place. He IS essentially a big WR.

This isn't 1995.

[DaneMcCloud]

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying whatsoever.

When have you ever saw a personnel package with Maclin, Conley, Hill and Wilson on the field without Kelce? You never have, because Kelce, as our TE, replaces the 4th WR as a receiving option. He lines up all over the place. He IS essentially a big WR.

This isn't 1995.

Just fucking stop

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Just ****ing stop

Is it my fault that you don't realize that the elite TEs in today's NFL often line up where receivers would? That's not a coincidence. They are better receiving threats.

Do you think New England gives two shits how thin they are at WR? Evidently not, and why should they when they use Gronk and Bennett over their low end WRs anyway.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

There not doing Shit they could have drafted Carr or traded up for Paxton Don't ever say there doing shit on offense cause they haven't done jackshit every year I come on here banging the draft the WR drum and I have to fight with you tards about how there is good depth in the 3rd-4th rounds.

You realize Lynch is awful right???

[pugsnotdrugs19]

This is like the Jimmy Graham debate back in NO.

EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG knows that Graham was a WR in NO. But his position label is TE, like Kelce.

It's no different dude.

[threebag]

At least you aren't riding the Albert Wilson horse still :thumb:

[DaneMcCloud]

Is it my fault that you don't realize that the elite TEs in today's NFL often line up where receivers would? That's not a coincidence. They are better receiving threats.

Do you think New England gives two shits how thin they are at WR? Evidently not, and why should they when they use Gronk and Bennett over their low end WRs anyway.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Do you NOT understand that Jeremy Maclin presents much different matchup issues than Albert Wilson when Travis Kelce is on the field?

I understand that you're a 20 year old but I don't give a shit.

Stop acting as if you understand this game better than anyone else because clearly, that's false.

[oaklandhater]

You realize Lynch is awful right???

He is still a rookie but at least it would have shown the fans that the chiefs are at least admitting there are issues on offense.

[threebag]

He is still a rookie but at least it would have shown the fans that the chiefs are at least admitting there are issues on offense.

Wtf??? Lose with a bust or win with a "game manager"? Don't know what kind of fans you plan on selling to.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

What the **** is wrong with you?

Do you NOT understand that Jeremy Maclin presents much different matchup issues than Albert Wilson when Travis Kelce is on the field?

I understand that you're a 20 year old but I don't give a shit.

Stop acting as if you understand this game better than anyone else because clearly, that's false.

What do you not get here? No one is saying Maclin isn't better than Wilson.

I'm saying that Robinson or DAT would be better than Wilson, but the reality is none of them should be on the field when Maclin, Hill, Conley and Kelce are primarily the ones playing, because they are the top receiving options.

You nitpick at people's statements to try to feed your huge f**king ego.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

He is still a rookie but at least it would have shown the fans that the chiefs are at least admitting there are issues on offense.

I want elite in the 1st, not dogshit

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

At least you aren't riding the Albert Wilson horse still :thumb:

Dick!

[DaneMcCloud]

What do you not get here? No one is saying Maclin isn't better than Wilson.

I'm saying that Robinson or DAT would be better than Wilson, but the reality is none of them should be on the field when Maclin, Hill, Conley and Kelce are primarily the ones playing, because they are the top receiving options.

You nitpick at people's statements to try to feed your huge f**king ego.

No, you're just dumb as fuck

What are you possibly confused about? Wilson right now is our #4 WR.

I was obviously referring to receiving threats. He's one of our top 2 receiving threats.

New England doesn't leave Gronkowski out of the conversation when they talk about their passing offense, I can promise you.


Robinson? LMAO

We aren't talking about the #3, we're talking the #4, or 5 if you include Kelce.

By now he's gotta have the playbook down. Far more talented than Wilson. Wouldn't doubt a bit if he isn't the 4th best WR on the team, though DAT could be too.

maybe if you move the goalposts a little further, they'll equal the size of your vagina

[ThaVirus]

I fully disagree. Plus, RNR is a rotation guy that was cut earlier this year and placed on the PS. Had Bailey not been injured, he'd still be on the PS. That said, the Chiefs did spend a 6th rounder on him so they have something invested.



The Chiefs spent zero first rounders on all of those players, other than Fisher. McCluster hasn't been with the Chiefs since 2013.



I went back to 2005 for a reason but the philosophy has remained the same.



Not this year. Not much last year, either.



This is utter nonsense. Fleming was a 3rd rounder, Howard a 4th rounder, Tyvon Branch a 2nd rounder. They were waived by the teams that drafted them but that doesn't make them "trash". Last I checked, Howard signed a $10 million dollar deal, as did Branch. That's not "trash".

Also, Ramik Wilson was the Chiefs 2015 4th round selection. He's not trash. RNR was the Chiefs 2015 6th round selection. If they're both "trash", then Fulton, LDT, West and Ware are, too.

No argument on Wilson.

You're legitimately ignoring logic to try and hammer home your point.

This offense has loads of talent. We've spent a number of day-one picks across the board in addition to big money on FAs. The only places we haven't spent any resources have been at G and RB, which is a sound strategy, and we've gotten near elite production out of our UFA RBs anyway so who gives a shit? No one's clamoring for us to spend a 1st rounder on a RB because aware is already producing like one.

Are you serious? Howard, Branch, Abdullah, Vance Walker, Parker, etc. Those guys were the epitome of waiver wire dumpster diving. Citing their draft status is weak. They were cut from their respective teams! Draft status goes out the window at that point.

The difference between the offense and defense is that the defense continues to play at a high level despite the numerous moving parts we plug in.

This season alone we're getting tons of contribution from Hali's mangled corpse, Frank fucking Zombo, Justin March, Ramik Wilson, Dan Sorensen, Kenneth Acker, Nunez-Roches and a few rookies in Jones and White. That's rag tag if I've ever seen it.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

No, you're just dumb as ****






Robinson? LMAO



maybe if you move the goalposts a little further, they'll equal the size of your vagina

Same old Dane. Just spatting bullshit and insults instead of engaging in a real debate of the topic.

Nothing I said was stupid. Kelce is a TE playing WR for us half the time if not more. Robinson is fully capable of outplaying Wilson if given the chance.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Dane straight trolling

[DaneMcCloud]

You're legitimately ignoring logic to try and hammer home your point.

This offense has loads of talent. We've spent a number of day-one picks across the board in addition to big money on FAs. The only places we haven't spent any resources have been at G and RB, which is a sound strategy, and we've gotten near elite production out of our UFA RBs anyway so who gives a shit? No one's clamoring for us to spend a 1st rounder on a RB because aware is already producing like one.

Are you serious? Howard, Branch, Abdullah, Vance Walker, Parker, etc. Those guys were the epitome of waiver wire dumpster diving. Citing their draft status is weak. They were cut from their respective teams! Draft status goes out the window at that point.

The difference between the offense and defense is that the defense continues to play at a high level despite the numerous moving parts we plug in.

This season alone we're getting tons of contribution from Hali's mangled corpse, Frank fucking Zombo, Justin March, Ramik Wilson, Dan Sorensen, Kenneth Acker, Nunez-Roches and a few rookies in Jones and White. That's rag tag if I've ever seen it.

You're smokin' crack

[pugsnotdrugs19]

You're legitimately ignoring logic to try and hammer home your point.


It's what Dane does...

[DadLeft4Cigarettes]

this place is vishus how many poster are desent is the best question, not how many aint why don u to play nice wth one other,? I don think I will share any football discuss with thees persons. actin like brats and mean cuss a lot

[DaneMcCloud]

It's what Dane does...

Fuck off, twat.

Kelce is not a WR, douchefuck.

[threebag]

You're legitimately ignoring logic to try and hammer home your point.

:popcorn:

[pugsnotdrugs19]

**** off, twat.

Kelce is not a WR, douche****.

Watch the game this week and chart how many times he lines up as a split end or flanker.

Bet it outweighs his snaps as a 'tight end'.

Again, this isn't 1995. He's leading the team in receiving yards.

[Reerun_KC]

Jfc. Where the holy fuck is clay.

The shit we are subjected to is fucking painful. We need some one to counter the blow job fucking homers.

[DaneMcCloud]

:popcorn:

Tha Virus hasn't watched a Chiefs game on a TV in years.

He watches streams on his 17" CRT and makes ridiculous statements during the season bit even more, in the offseason.

I have no problem with him personally bit it's like arguing with a blind man about the price of tea in China.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Jfc. Where the holy fuck is clay.

The shit we are subjected to is fucking painful. We need some one to counter the blow job fucking homers.

I told you guys....Wolfman Joe. I have fished several times and caught the large mouth ASS

[DaneMcCloud]

Watch the game this week and chart how many times he lines up as a split end or flanker.

Bet it outweighs his snaps as a 'tight end'.

Again, this isn't 1995. He's leading the team in receiving yards.

Hey, Dumbfuck, where he "lines up" is fucking irrelevant.

If there's not a legit #1 Wide Receiver on the field, Kelce is being double teamed.

What the FUCK is wrong with you?