Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[TribalElder]

In

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Let's sink this ship and start over without the bozo GM and manager fellas

[BigRedChief]

Let's sink this ship and start over without the bozo GM and manager fellas Not happening without Matheny losing the locker room, a losing season and attendance dropping.

I hate Matheny in game management, use of relief pitchers and not giving our young players the same chance as the new to the team vets. He needs to go.

I'm still on board the Mo train. He has done some bone headed moves but overalll, he has done a good job.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Not happening without Matheny losing the locker room, losing season and attendance dropping.

I hate Matheny in game management, use of relief pitchers and not giving our young players the same chance as the new to the team vets. He needs to go.

I'm still on board the Mo train. He has done some bone headed moves but overalll, he has done a good job.

Well let's hope for 60 wins then

[BigRedChief]

Well let's hope for 60 wins then
When's the last time we had a losing season?

[Prison Bitch]

86 wins

[Pasta Little Brioni]

86 wins

Ceiling for KC? Ouch

[O.city]

I'm not excited to watch peralta at 3rd all year

[seclark]

wbf
sec

[BigRedChief]

I'm not excited to watch peralta at 3rd all yearyeah, me either. The trade and FA market was either overpriced or no better than we already have. Everyone wanted Martinez or Reyes just as a starting point on trades. When we can compete in the playoffs again, we must have those two on our team to compete.

I'm assuming that they are hoping that Peralta or Gryko can play 3B all season long. Or maybe Matt Adams steps it up this year and they slide Carp over to 3B.

[Easy 6]

Oh God, you insufferable Cradinal fans are back already

Ya'll are the worst, you're like the patriots or steelers fans of MLB

:bolt:

[scho63]

I'm not expecting a great season from our Pirates this year. Maybe .500 ?

[kccrow]

Screw the Cardinals. :P

[Chief Roundup]

Shitbag Royal fans are the worst fans in the league. They just wish they had an organization half as good as the Cardinals.

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Shitbag Royal fans are the worst fans in the league. They just wish they had an organization half as good as the Cardinals.

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk

They didn't even watch games for 2 and a half decades.

[kccrow]

Shitbag Royal fans are the worst fans in the league. They just wish they had an organization half as good as the Cardinals.

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk

Good thing I'm not a Royals' fan either. :) Fuck the Royals more than the Cardinals!

[Marco Polo]

I see Moss is close to joining the Royals. I would have liked to re-sign him as a flexible back up option to 1B/OF.

[BigRedChief]

I see Moss is close to joining the Royals. I would have liked to re-sign him as a flexible back up option to 1B/OF.yeah, ESPN is reporting it as a done deal pending physical. 2 years $12 million guaranteed.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Good riddance

[Stinger]

MLB strips Cardinals of draft picks, fines them $2 million for Astros hack

Major League Baseball dropped an unprecedented penalty on the St. Louis Cardinals for their former scouting director’s hacking of the Houston Astros’ computer system, ordering the Cardinals to send their top two draft picks to the Astros and pay them $2 million in damages, while placing perpetrator Chris Correa on the permanently ineligible list.

Commissioner Rob Manfred wrote in his ruling that no Cardinals employee other than Correa participated in the hacking and there will be no further discipline.

“Although Mr. Correa’s conduct was not authorized by the Cardinals, as a matter of MLB policy I am holding the Cardinals responsible for his conduct,” Manfred wrote.

Monday’s actions seemingly put an end to a saga that began when Correa, a former colleague of Astros GM Jeff Luhnow, hacked into their computer systems in 2013 and 2014 after Luhnow and other Cardinals executives joined the Astros. Correa’s role came to light in 2015, when the Cardinals terminated him while he was under federal investigation. In July 2016, Correa was sentenced to 46 months in prison and ordered to pay the Astros $279,000 in restitution.

"This unprecedented award by the Commissioner's office sends a clear message of the severity of these actions,” the Astros said in a statement.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/01/30/mlb-strips-cardinals-draft-picks-fines-them-2-million-astros-hack/97250008/

[Miles]

Some additional info from sentencing

http://deadspin.com/feds-cardinals-hacker-probably-leaked-to-deadspin-as-r-1791778599

[DJ's left nut]

{shrug}

Could've been worse. You gotta figure that the pick would've been our first rounder but/for losing it with the Fowler signing.

So that takes some of the sting out of giving up a pick for Fowler; I'd much rather give up a couple of comp-round picks than a first. 56 and 75 isn't quite Hail Mary territory but outside of the top 35-40 picks, you're really just sifting through the same pile of lotto tickets as everyone else and hoping to get lucky.

The worst part is that the Cardinals draft $$ allotment is essentially nil now. It's still amazing to me that their big money 'international splurge' this last off-season yielded about the 10th most money spent on international signings.

They keep their powder dry during the Yoan Moncada bidding and then burn it all up on a bunch of middle-tier prospects that are about as likely to hit as mid-round draft picks.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That's a fair punishment, and goddamn if it doesn't hurt.

[raybec 4]

This punishment never would have happened if the Cardinals were owned by Jesuits.

[BigRedChief]

That's a fair punishment, and goddamn if it doesn't hurt.stupid ass in house rivalry cost us two picks. :cuss:

They had better not allow that to happen again.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Good will help with the tanking

[BigRedChief]

Good will help with the tankingwe have too much talent to tank.

[BigRedChief]

{shrug}

Could've been worse. You gotta figure that the pick would've been our first rounder but/for losing it with the Fowler signing.

So that takes some of the sting out of giving up a pick for Fowler; I'd much rather give up a couple of comp-round picks than a first. 56 and 75 isn't quite Hail Mary territory but outside of the top 35-40 picks, you're really just sifting through the same pile of lotto tickets as everyone else and hoping to get lucky.

The worst part is that the Cardinals draft $$ allotment is essentially nil now. It's still amazing to me that their big money 'international splurge' this last off-season yielded about the 10th most money spent on international signings.

They keep their powder dry during the Yoan Moncada bidding and then burn it all up on a bunch of middle-tier prospects that are about as likely to hit as mid-round draft picks.I'm sure MLB realized it wasn't a hack to get an unfair advantage in the draft or on the field but a stupid ass inter-team and personal riviraly gone down a rabbit hole. But, they couldn't let it slide as a precedent.

[BigRedChief]

The press conference concluded with the star pitcher requesting that his family members in the back of the room join him at the front, up on the stage. Carlos Martinez, wearing a scarlet bow tie, grinned as the cameras flashed. General manager John Mozeliak happily observed the celebration from the side.

A congratulatory phone call was on its way.

This was a day of celebration.

"I thought it was an opportunity I couldn't let go of," Martinez said through a team translator during the announcement of a record deal for a first-time arbitration eligible pitcher.

His extension is for five years and $51 million. But it's more than that. Two team options could increase the contract to seven years and $86 million. But it's more than that, too.

The 25-year-old righthander agreed to perhaps pass up more riches down the road to immediately secure a future for himself, his family and his philanthropic efforts here and in the Dominican Republic.

Meanwhile the Cardinals are betting that Martinez's current trajectory will not plateau, but instead establish him as the cornerstone of the rotation for years to come.

"When we think about him, we already talk about him in that elite status of potential No. 1, and as a dominating-type starter," Mozeliak said. "When you think about his performance over the last few years, there's no reason not to think that's where it's headed."

"It's really about trying to make an investment in our future," Mozeliak added. "Understanding that we see him as an emerging star, someone who is going to be an elite performer for a long time."

[Miles]

Looks like a quite a nice extension with the two team option years.

[BigRedChief]

Looks like a quite a nice extension with the two team option years.in today's market, that's stealing money. He could have got a boatload of money in 3 years. Now the Cardinals can control him through 2023. And just pay a $1 million bonus at any time in the deal if he's traded. Seems to be a very friendly team deal.

Martinez, the son of a drug addicted prostitute, just got guaranteed generational changing money for his family in the DR. I'm sure that's why he signed the deal.


He's now our Ace.

“I respect (Wainwright). But I want (to start the first game),” Martinez said.

“Great answer,” said general manager John Mozeliak. “He’s a talented guy. We’re not sitting here today doing this kind of contract if he’s not.”

[jd1020]

Seems to be a very friendly team deal.

Slightly team friendly. I'm a little surprised that he and his agent decided to opt for the same salary in his first 2 free agent years that he'll make in his arb years. That seems like a failure on their part.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Slightly team friendly. I'm a little surprised that he and his agent decided to opt for the same salary in his first 2 free agent years that he'll make in his arb years. That seems like a failure on their part.

If he has two years like his last two, the Cardinals will earn back their $$. It's extremely team-friendly.

[BigRedChief]

Good will help with the tanking


If Baseball Prospectus is correct, you can expect lots of Cardinals tears this year.

BP released its annual PECOTA projections on Tuesday, predicting the 2017 Cardinals will finish with their worst record since 2007 and win fewer than 77 games this season.

Based on BP’s Player Empirical Comparison and Optimization Test Algorithm, the Cardinals are expected to finish tied for third in the National League Central with a 76-86 record. If that projection is correct, they'll finish tied for the fourth worst record in the NL.

PECOTA projects that the Cardinals will score 708 runs and give up 756 with a .253 batting average, .317 on-base percentage and .411 slugging percentage.

[DJ's left nut]

Pecota's wrong.

It says that Carlos Martinez will take a large step backwards based on...well nothing really. It also says that Matt Carpenter will be a roughly 2.5 win player and that Diaz will be worth 2.

Mostly it seems to have thrown darts at the wall. The Cards aren't a good team, but they aren't a genuinely bad one either. Probably an 83-87 win squad.

[O.city]

It seems it's going to take alot of big jumps from young guys for this team to actually be good.

Piscotty, Grichuk, Wong, etc.

Yuck.

[raybec 4]

It seems it's going to take alot of big jumps from young guys for this team to actually be good.

Piscotty, Grichuk, Wong, etc.

Yuck.

I have no faith in Wong at all, he still thinks of himself as a 30 HR guy. If he can't start hitting line drives he won't ever be more productive.

Grichuk still doesn't understand the strike zone. I doubt he ever will.

Piscotty has a real shot to be a very solid career player but he doesn't scare anybody. Diaz is the only Cardinal with a genuine shot to be a force in the middle of the lineup.

They'll play around .500 all year and probably win about 85 games

[scho63]

What's the overall age of the current Cards starting lineup?

[bdj23]

I still hate Mike Leake

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Freese is back....in Imo commercials. Seriously ROFL ROFL

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

thanks for the draft picks.

[BigRedChief]

What's the overall age of the current Cards starting lineup?1/2 are young. 1/2 are old.

[Pepe Silvia]

thanks for the draft picks.

Astros still suck.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Astros still suck.

Eh, depends on starting pitching. Batting lineup looks great.

[Marco Polo]

I FINALLY got around to watching Money Ball last night. I wonder when the Cards starting making that approach...

[bdj23]

Vegas has us tabbed at 87.5 wins and tying for the second wild card with San Francisco.

Stake your claim. Over or under.

I'm going 89 wins.

[DJ's left nut]

Vegas has us tabbed at 87.5 wins and tying for the second wild card with San Francisco.

Stake your claim. Over or under.

I'm going 89 wins.

Under.

85.

[Hootie]

Cards are in trouble ...

as a hater of everything successful sports related - I want to see how the 'best fans in baseball' handle a 5-10 year stretch (which is coming) of futility (by Cards standards) that is inevitably coming ...

will you still fill the stands? Will attendance still be right around the tops in the bigs?

...or, if the Cards actually suck for 4-5 years in a row ... will the following dwindle?

Basically, in my adult life, the Cardinals have always been good and have always competed. I want to see them be terrible for a few years and I want to see what happens. Would love to see that fan base eat some crow after all of these years.

...really, really easy to cheer for a winner. Let's see how you guys handle a loser.

[Hootie]

...if you support a loser, I'll change my mind about you guys and give you the respect you deserve.

...but if attendance falls off the cliffs as the Cubs own that division for the time being ... I will bask in the fact you were all frauds and I knew it as such the whole time

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hootie, it definitely is a front running fan base..in a year they struggled, Fans left games early in droves in one run games ALL the time if Big Mac had his last at bat of the night. They still draw, but the fan base is as fickle as anyone else. Won't be Royal suck level bad however.

[Hootie]

...well, you'd have to give me 25+ years of straight sucktitude for me to be able to compare that

ALL of my friends are Cardinals (and Packers !!!!) fans ...

I need to see the Cardinals suck for 3 straight years to see what kind of fans the BFIP really are ...

My thoughts? The same as any other baseball fan. If your team sucks, you aren't gonna waste time showing up. My mom's boss has 2 sets of seasons tickets to Cards games and the last 5 games last year you couldn't even give those things away and they are really good tickets.

Easy to be great fans when you always win. Want to see what happens when the Cubs own the division for 5 years.

[Hootie]

...well, you'd have to give me 25+ years of straight sucktitude for me to be able to compare that

ALL of my friends are Cardinals (and Packers !!!!) fans ...

I need to see the Cardinals suck for 3 straight years to see what kind of fans the BFIP really are ...

My thoughts? The same as any other baseball fan. If your team sucks, you aren't gonna waste time showing up. My mom's boss has 2 sets of seasons tickets to Cards games and the last 5 games last year you couldn't even give those things away and they are really good tickets.

Easy to be great fans when you always win. Want to see what happens when the Cubs own the division for 5 years.

[Hootie]

THAT said ... new Busch is the best stadium in baseball - will give you that

[Pasta Little Brioni]

We aren't the BFIB, those are the Cubs. I can admit that.

[Hootie]

We aren't the BFIB, those are the Cubs. I can admit that.

ok - that's a joke

again - all of my friends are Cards/Pack fans and all they've ever seen is winning .... Cards (obvi) and from Favre to Rodgers

will be nice to see the Cards get roughed up a bit and can't wait to see how these smug assholes I have on my FB feed react to 5 years of 2nd fiddle

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ok - that's a joke

again - all of my friends are Cards/Pack fans and all they've ever seen is winning .... Cards (obvi) and from Favre to Rodgers

will be nice to see the Cards get roughed up a bit and can't wait to see how these smug assholes I have on my FB feed react to 5 years of 2nd fiddle

I'm ready for it too actually. Most of the fan base are insufferable pricks that need knocked down a peg.

[bdj23]

God damn it. Hootie is back?

Thread is ruined.

[bdj23]

Under.

85.


I say that as a homer who magically thinks Waino and Leake won't be as bad this year as they were last year.

[bdj23]

Hootie, it definitely is a front running fan base..in a year they struggled, Fans left games early in droves in one run games ALL the time if Big Mac had his last at bat of the night. They still draw, but the fan base is as fickle as anyone else. Won't be Royal suck level bad however.

IIRC the Cardinals have had one season in my lifetime that they have drawn under the NL average in attendance.

1995

[Marcellus]

Cards are in trouble ...

as a hater of everything successful sports related - I want to see how the 'best fans in baseball' handle a 5-10 year stretch (which is coming) of futility (by Cards standards) that is inevitably coming ...

will you still fill the stands? Will attendance still be right around the tops in the bigs?

...or, if the Cards actually suck for 4-5 years in a row ... will the following dwindle?

Basically, in my adult life, the Cardinals have always been good and have always competed. I want to see them be terrible for a few years and I want to see what happens. Would love to see that fan base eat some crow after all of these years.

...really, really easy to cheer for a winner. Let's see how you guys handle a loser.

Who is this fucking clown?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Cards are in trouble ...

as a hater of everything successful sports related - I want to see how the 'best fans in baseball' handle a 5-10 year stretch (which is coming) of futility (by Cards standards) that is inevitably coming ...

will you still fill the stands? Will attendance still be right around the tops in the bigs?

...or, if the Cards actually suck for 4-5 years in a row ... will the following dwindle?

Basically, in my adult life, the Cardinals have always been good and have always competed. I want to see them be terrible for a few years and I want to see what happens. Would love to see that fan base eat some crow after all of these years.

...really, really easy to cheer for a winner. Let's see how you guys handle a loser.

If only there were like dozens of years of crowd histories to prove how St. Louis fans supported the team when it was bad in the 70s and 90s.

Always fun to be lectured by a guy that was a Cubs fan until they tanked then discovered the Royals right around the time they became good to lecture us about fairweather, though.

[bdj23]

Who is this ****ing clown?

It's Hootie.

Prepare for every other post in this thread to be an autistic rambling about how he hates the Cardinals.

[Jewish Rabbi]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/attend.shtml

In the last 50 years, they've been below average in NL Attendance 5 times. I don't see them suddenly dropping to the bottom of the league.

[VAChief]

If only there were like dozens of years of crowd histories to prove how St. Louis fans supported the team when it was bad in the 70s and 90s.

Always fun to be lectured by a guy that was a Cubs fan until they tanked then discovered the Royals right around the time they became good to lecture us about fairweather, though.

This...very few bright spots in the 70's...sat through an absolute double-header raping by the Big Red Machine with my family in like 95 degree weather and never even considered leaving before the last out.

Crowds back then would not be great by today's standards, but nothing like other perennial 3rd through 5th place clubs.

[Marcellus]

It's Hootie.

Prepare for every other post in this thread to be an autistic rambling about how he hates the Cardinals.

Awesome.:rolleyes:

Another banning is only a matter of time.

[KChiefs1]

Who is this fucking clown?



Hootie has returned.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hootie]

I was at BPV for New Years Eve (and Day) ... love that place

[DJ's left nut]

Reyes took his physical this morning....and isn't cleared to throw this afternoon. Skipping his session.

So that's good news.

Gonna be a fun season, gents. Looking forward to hitting 15 singles and scoring three runs. But hey, nobody backs up 3b better than Mike Leake. Go get 'em, Tiger!

[ChiefsCountry]

Cards won in arbitration with Wacha.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Classic Cardinals

[raybec 4]

Under.

85.

I said 85 earlier in the thread, I'm sticking to that. And, despite what some idiot's ramble about I'll go to every game I can. My brother and I still bought our 16 game package and we'll stay for every out.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Cards won in arbitration with Wacha.

The fact that they went to arbitration with him shows how little they think of him. The Cards avoided arbitration with Jon Jay, FFS. They buy out everyone's arb years. Wouldnt' surprise me if he's a non-tender candidate in '18.

[O.city]

Eh, I read the Reyes thing isn't supposed to be serious. "not even a yellow flag raised" was the term used, fwiw.

[O.city]

Reyes took his physical this morning....and isn't cleared to throw this afternoon. Skipping his session.

So that's good news.

Gonna be a fun season, gents. Looking forward to hitting 15 singles and scoring three runs. But hey, nobody backs up 3b better than Mike Leake. Go get 'em, Tiger!

I had forgotten that they actually led the NL in HR's last year. How the hell did I forget that?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/831560750476955648

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am told : Potentially season ending injury for Alex Reyes. Tough tough blown for Cardinals.</p>&mdash; Craig Mish (@CraigMish) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/831560750476955648">February 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[O.city]

Well, fuck me was I wrong.

[bdj23]

https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/831560750476955648

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am told : Potentially season ending injury for Alex Reyes. Tough tough blown for Cardinals.</p>&mdash; Craig Mish (@CraigMish) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/831560750476955648">February 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And it begins :deevee::cuss:

[O.city]

Right elbow discomfort, heading for MRI.

How does that happen at this juncture?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Right elbow discomfort, heading for MRI.

How does that happen at this juncture?

The human body is not designed to throw objects overhead repeatedly. Pitcher health is just blind fucking luck. Well, that and not throwing sliders.

[O.city]

The human body is not designed to throw objects overhead repeatedly. Pitcher health is just blind ****ing luck. Well, that and not throwing sliders.

I know. It's just weird this happened at this point in time. Like, before he'd began throwing in ST. I'm sure he's obviously been in an offseason program, just seems like weird timing.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I know. It's just weird this happened at this point in time. Like, before he'd began throwing in ST. I'm sure he's obviously been in an offseason program, just seems like weird timing.

Happened to Wainwright at nearly the same time in 2011. Just try to think of throwing a baseball like playing Press Your Luck blindfolded. Every pitch you're just trying to avoid the damned Whammy, but you have no idea when it's going to pop up.

The ligaments in the elbow are just not designed to do it, nor are the muscles in the shoulder, and I don't know of any training program that can actually prevent it.

[O.city]

Happened to Wainwright at nearly the same time in 2011. Just try to think of throwing a baseball like playing Press Your Luck blindfolded. Every pitch you're just trying to avoid the damned Whammy, but you have no idea when it's going to pop up.

The ligaments in the elbow are just not designed to do it, nor are the muscles in the shoulder, and I don't know of any training program that can actually prevent it.

Yeah, but i thought Waino had actually began throwing.

In any manner, looks like its time for some TJ and a years rest for our young pitcher.

[DJ's left nut]

Cards won in arbitration with Wacha.

Good.

Arbitration is stupid anyway but it's hard to say that Wacha had much of an argument to make. He was objectively terribly last season.

As irritating was Matt Adams is, he's at least a lefty with pop who is slightly better than replacement level.

Wacha, OTOH, should've been in AA last year.

[DJ's left nut]

As for the Reyes news - I'm hopeful that this gives Rosenthal an actual crack at the rotation.

You could have far worse silver linings.

[DJ's left nut]

Over/under on how long it takes to actually have the surgery done? Anyone wanna bet that we prescribe 'rest and rehab' then shut him down for good in August so that he ends up missing 2 seasons instead of one?

[O.city]

Over/under on how long it takes to actually have the surgery done? Anyone wanna bet that we prescribe 'rest and rehab' then shut him down for good in August so that he ends up missing 2 seasons instead of one?

My dad just text me the same thing.....

[raybec 4]

It's unfortunate that the Cards training staff is incredibly inept. If they feel like he may need TJ, they need to do it ASAP. This is the only club I know of that will have a guy sit 80 games with a hamstring, or hip soreness injury.

[DJ's left nut]

My dad just text me the same thing.....

Well if he's the one that insisted that it isn't even a yellow flag scenario, I feel better about our prognosis already...

[O.city]

Well if he's the one that insisted that it isn't even a yellow flag scenario, I feel better about our prognosis already...

Yeah, I've decided that I just conjured that up as I can't find it anywhere on twitter now.

[Prison Bitch]

86 wins

84 wins

[DJ's left nut]

Under.

85.

84.

The Cardinals have genuine depth in their staff and 150 innings of Reyes would've been nice, but he was going to be on an innings limit anyway. This changes their ceiling more than it changes their 'likely scenario). I'd say they had a 92 win ceiling that's more likely 88 at this point, but their 'likely' 85 wins changes by maybe a win or two.

Where this will really hurt is next season when he could've been ready to step up to 180+ innings and really take the reigns from Wainwright at the top of the rotation. Now that entire timetable is set back another year (while still costing a year of control).

It's time to get to work on the 2020 plan and build towards that. Maybe 2019 if you're a little more optimistic.

The Cardinals need to make a hard push for Luis Robert (ro-BAIR), IMO. He'd immediately be a top 5 prospect in the system and if nothing else just create another tradeable asset to fill a slew of holes that are opening throughout the organization. They can never undo the fact that they were a day late and a dollar short on the Cuban imports (Moncada still chaps my ass), but they can at least take one last stab at Robert before the international signing rules change up again.

[Prison Bitch]

Don't copy my predictions without express written consent of MLB

[DJ's left nut]

Here's some video of Robert

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sNt3YQbUflI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mlINOQjr7Nw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There's definitely a lot of that 'barely restrained violence' in his game that you saw in Puig but at the same time, I see some of the elongated swings that I saw with Soler and Tavares.

There are times when I see serious batspeed but then he also loses his mechanics in there several times and ends up casting it something awful. I wonder if that explains some of the more mediocre numbers and slightly elevated strikeouts. There's some explosion in his wrists but you don't see it quite often enough.

Interesting prospect that is probably worth about 1/5th of the money he'll command on the open market but that's the price DeWitt's gonna have to pay to deal with this Correa nonsense. Robert would probably be a 1st round or at least high 2nd round talent if in the Rule 4 draft so if you can just throw some money at acquiring him, you've done a little to make up for the loss of those picks. Moreover, as the Cards have already torched their bonus pool for '16/'17, there's no additional penalties associated with signing.

It's nothing more than another summer home for BDW - he should probably suck it up and authorize the signing. Loria's purported sale has pegged his franchise's value in the $1.5-2 billion dollar range on a franchise he acquired for virtually nothing (before turning the best operating profits in baseball for the last several years) - he can afford to splurge a bit.

[Marcellus]

As for the Reyes news - I'm hopeful that this gives Rosenthal an actual crack at the rotation.

You could have far worse silver linings.

True dat, you dont have to struggle through Rosey closing and Oh gets the job.

I swear though all pitchers should have TJ surgery as soon as they hit 20 years old.

[KChiefs1]

Over/under on how long it takes to actually have the surgery done? Anyone wanna bet that we prescribe 'rest and rehab' then shut him down for good in August so that he ends up missing 2 seasons instead of one?



Dammit!
I had him in my keeper league.






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[DJ's left nut]

Kevin Siegrist skipped his throwing session today with 'shoulder tightness'.

The only think worse than hearing 'forearm stiffnes' is hearing 'shoulder tightness' because if it's a shoulder, he's just flat done. There's very little coming back from that.

Better hope it's just first week aches because this team wasn't that good when it was healthy.

[DJ's left nut]

I was pretty sure I mentioned some concerns I had regarding Reyes dragging that back arm when he was still in A ball:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11524619&postcount=1552

Personally, I don't care for the reports that he's touching 101 on occasion because that tells me that he's overloading his shoulder to add 2-3 mph of velocity, but if it's the kind of thing he's only doing 2 or 3 times/game, I can live with it.

Too many guys go out there in the minors and start shoulder loading on every pitch. It adds velocity but it will absolutely wreck their arms. If I see Reyes cruising at 99, I'll worry quite a bit about his long-term health because he was sitting at 95-97 a year ago. Sure, sometimes maturation adds a little, but that's a rare bird for a guy that was already built like a 27 yr old (as Reyes was). If he's finding extra velocity, that tells me he's scapula loading to get it and it doesn't speak well to his long-term prognosis.

Here's the visual breakdown:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2017/2/15/14613328/the-changing-mechanics-of-alex-reyes-delivery-breakdown-carlos-martinez-injury

That's exactly what was happening. Over the last 2 years he's coiled that arm more and more in a search for added velocity. Sure as shit, it blew out the elbow.

Man I hope this isn't going to turn into another Cardinals developmental failure over the last 3-4 years. The kid was plenty dynamic in the mid-90s but they let him keep dragging that arm because they fell in love with the radar readings. That's a pretty monumental cock-up and now they'll have to try to fix it.

[raybec 4]

The good thing is he had the surgery already and they said it was "successful". At least they didn't dick around this time.

[DJ's left nut]

The good thing is he had the surgery already and they said it was "successful". At least they didn't dick around this time.

But when he comes back from it, anything less than throwing 100 mph will be considered a failure. The problem is that if he comes back throwing 100, he'll STILL be overloading his pitching arm.

The kid needs to get back down to 95 and he needs to rediscover his curveball. This arm injury doesn't just cost him a year of development, it establishes that his last 2 years of development were WRONG. And that the organization would almost certainly be well served to take two steps back with him. It may mean we lost a year of pitching and ANOTHER year of him re-learning how to throw with different stuff designed to improve his durability.

This was a huge mistake, IMO. It irritates me to no end that they allowed an immature kid (or perhaps even encouraged) to go out there lighting up radar guns when anyone with even a passing understanding of pitching mechanics knows that you're playing with fire.

'Passing understanding' is exactly what I'd consider my grasp on pitchers and yet I recognized the potential for trouble when he was still in High A; where the fuck were our pitching coaches?

[raybec 4]

But when he comes back from it, anything less than throwing 100 mph will be considered a failure. The problem is that if he comes back throwing 100, he'll STILL be overloading his pitching arm.

The kid needs to get back down to 95 and he needs to rediscover his curveball. This arm injury doesn't just cost him a year of development, it establishes that his last 2 years of development were WRONG. And that the organization would almost certainly be well served to take two steps back with him. It may mean we lost a year of pitching and ANOTHER year of him re-learning how to throw with different stuff designed to improve his durability.

This was a huge mistake, IMO. It irritates me to no end that they allowed an immature kid (or perhaps even encouraged) to go out there lighting up radar guns when anyone with even a passing understanding of pitching mechanics knows that you're playing with fire.

'Passing understanding' is exactly what I'd consider my grasp on pitchers and yet I recognized the potential for trouble when he was still in High A; where the **** were our pitching coaches?
I just don't get the love for the radar gun. 95 with good movement paired with and 86 change or curve is more than good enough.

[Hootie]

I feel like, at this point, TJ is just something every pitcher is going to have to endure, especially flamethrowers. It is what it is ... sucks for Reyes but he'll be fine and as good as ever in 2018 1/2.

[DJ's left nut]

I feel like, at this point, TJ is just something every pitcher is going to have to endure, especially flamethrowers. It is what it is ... sucks for Reyes but he'll be fine and as good as ever in 2018 1/2.

Sure, more and more pitchers are undergoing TJ but I also think that's in large part because we've figured out how to create velocity.

It's not like pure nutrition or strength programs are to credit for a league-wide explosion in velocity. We have more and more coaches that are teaching guys to scapula load and hang that arm back. We have more guys, especially fringier prospects, being taught to let it all hang out to get attention.

And for guys that may not have made it, it may be a good thing. Get that extra 3-4 MPH and a little more tilt on your slider and you'll have a 3-4 year career before your arm gives out. If you're lucky, you fix it and have another 4-5 years maybe even a FA payday along the way.

But with a guy like Alex Reyes that had the ability to maintain far safer mechanics, cruise at 94-95 and work with a breaking ball that was different than a slider but arguably as effective, there's just no need at all to have done that.

TJ surgery isn't on the increase by accident; guys are being taught much more dangerous mechanics. For many, it's the only shot they have at actually making it but for some, they're just pushing it too far into the red for no cause.

The odds suggest that Reyes can come back and throw 98-100 again but my point is that if he does, we'll find ourselves right back in this spot in a few years. And if it isn't with an elbow tear, it will be with something like his prior sprain or his his shoulder soreness last year. For his long term health, they need to get his legs back as his primary source of power and doing so may cost him a little velocity and a little command, especially as he sorts it out.

I think it's an investment worth making.

[jd1020]

As irritating was Matt Adams is, he's at least a lefty with pop who is slightly better than replacement level.

Is he starting to take baseball seriously now? Was scrolling through some videos on mlb's website and saw a clip of one of his HRs. He looks pretty slimmed down.

[allen_kcCard]

Is he starting to take baseball seriously now? Was scrolling through some videos on mlb's website and saw a clip of one of his HRs. He looks pretty slimmed down.

I saw him in spring training, and he is slimmed down a lot. He had been struggling a bit hitting because he tweaked his swing this offseason, but I think things are picking up. He nailed his 1st homerun when we were there and I think he has a few since then.

And Fowler is going to be an awesome get.

[VAChief]

It wouldn't surprise me if at some point Garcia beats out Wong.

Sure it's spring, but Heywards OPS stands at .455. Seems we really dodged a bullet with that head case. Too bad we didn't try to sign Fowler last year.

[jd1020]

Sure it's spring, but Heywards OPS stands at .455. Seems we really dodged a bullet with that head case. Too bad we didn't try to sign Fowler last year.

Heyward is also working on revamping his mechanics and battling with breaking old habits. It may or may not amount to much but then again you still have Piscotty at .466.

[O.city]

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

[jd1020]

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

We'll see but I still think their ultimate plan is to move him to CF. They haven't made any move to permanently fill CF yet. Once Jimenez is ready for the big league I think they'll finally move Heyward to CF and put Jimenez in RF and trade Happ and Almora for some future pitching. I could even see them trading Schwarber if he is really bad in LF and moving Zobrist out there full time, giving Baez 2B. But they would have to get something really special in return from some AL team to give up that bat.

[O.city]

We'll see but I still think their ultimate plan is to move him to CF. They haven't made any move to permanently fill CF yet. Once Jimenez is ready for the big league I think they'll finally move Heyward to CF and put Jimenez in RF and either trade Happ and Almora for some future pitching.

Possibly. Although I'm not sure he would really be a great CF, but he's pretty good defensively.

They need to unload some of those guys for some pitching though, which I thought would have already happened.

[DJ's left nut]

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

Tell us more about how Wong's working on backfields, Pham's new contacts, Grichuk's new hand placement and how it will help him lay off slop...blah blah blah blah.

At some point (and that point is LOOOOOOOOONG gone for Jason Heyward), these guys just are what they are and no amount of hopes and dreams will changes that.

Seriously, you know that Greg Garcia goes home after another 2/5 day where he ropes a double and sees 25 pitches on his own, looks at the mirror and just shouts "MOTHER. FUCKER!!!" because he knows that Kolten Wong, who has never for a single day in his life been a better baseball player than Garcia, will be handed that starting job and $20 million over the next 4 years.

Meanwhile Garcia can't get 300 ABs without an injury. He's better than Wong at all things baseball related. Tony LaRussa had this exact decision in front of him with the enigmatic but talented Colby Rasmus and the less talented but simply better Jon Jay. And LaRussa correctly chose Jon Jay (now he should probably not have savaged Rasmus's trade value at the same time, but that's a different story).

Matheny lacks that intelligence and fortitude. He would never give Garcia the starting job over Wong, the bonus baby with the big guaranteed contract. Nope, we'll keep sending 'Joltin' Kolten' out there to swing through cement mixers with runners in scoring position, botch routine grounders and then get sucked off by Dan when he plays one off his hip to make it look better than it would've when Garcia just got in front of it, knocked it down and then picked it up and threw across for the out.

[jd1020]

Possibly. Although I'm not sure he would really be a great CF, but he's pretty good defensively.

They need to unload some of those guys for some pitching though, which I thought would have already happened.

Wrigley has a small CF. It's the same CF that made Fowler look like an average defender. I can't imagine any situation that Heyward wouldnt thrive in CF at Wrigley.

[O.city]

Wrigley has a small CF. It's the same CF that made Fowler look like an average defender. I can't imagine any situation that Heyward wouldnt thrive in CF at Wrigley.

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

[O.city]

Tell us more about how Wong's working on backfields, Pham's new contacts, Grichuk's new hand placement and how it will help him lay off slop...blah blah blah blah.

At some point (and that point is LOOOOOOOOONG gone for Jason Heyward), these guys just are what they are and no amount of hopes and dreams will changes that.

Seriously, you know that Greg Garcia goes home after another 2/5 day where he ropes a double and sees 25 pitches on his own, looks at the mirror and just shouts "MOTHER. ****ER!!!" because he knows that Kolten Wong, who has never for a single day in his life been a better baseball player than Garcia, will be handed that starting job and $20 million over the next 4 years.

Meanwhile Garcia can't get 300 ABs without an injury. He's better than Wong at all things baseball related. Tony LaRussa had this exact decision in front of him with the enigmatic but talented Colby Rasmus and the less talented but simply better Jon Jay. And LaRussa correctly chose Jon Jay (now he should probably not have savaged Rasmus's trade value at the same time, but that's a different story).

Matheny lacks that intelligence and fortitude. He would never give Garcia the starting job over Wong, the bonus baby with the big guaranteed contract. Nope, we'll keep sending 'Joltin' Kolten' out there to swing through cement mixers with runners in scoring position, botch routine grounders and then get sucked off by Dan when he plays one off his hip to make it look better than it would've when Garcia just got in front of it, knocked it down and then picked it up and threw across for the out.

True. All of it's true. Sadly, true.

Fowler has had a good spring though, which is nice to see. Yadi was good in the WBC.

I'm just ready for baseball.

[jd1020]

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

The alleys in Busch are also 20 feet deeper. Fowler has been a horrible defender over his career and he just scraped together a +1 DRS year in CF at Wrigley. He was -12 the year before in Wrigley, -20 in Houston and a combined -21 over his last 3 years in Colorado. Heyward had a +2 DRS in 51 innings in CF for the Cardinals and he had a +4 in CF for the Cubs last year in 171 innings. He would be a much better CF than Fowler. His bat may not be as good, we'll see, but the Cubs would gain Jimenez in RF who has a 70 power rating.

[DJ's left nut]

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

Nor do most metrics.

That said, he's a plus athlete with good instincts. He'd almost certainly get better as he got more comfortable. I suspect he'd be an above average defender in center for them given some time.

But he's also a big man and that's a lot of weight on his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if right about the time he started feeling like CF was 'home', he's start to lose some of the athletic chops to excel at it.

I went from wanting him to get back to his 2012 swing to now thinking the Cubs should just try to get him back to where he was in 14-15 and lead him off. Schwarber batting leadoff in an NL lineup (as has been rumored) is a hell of a waste unless they also intend to bat the pitcher 8th. His ability to drive in runs would be almost worthless from there.

I'd put Zobrist there but if they could get Heyward back up to a .355 OBP with 20 steals, he'd be a big time help in that he would allow them to maintain that savage middle of the order with Bryant - Rizzo - Schwarber - Russell - Contreras. Man...fuck those guys and their dozen superstar hitters.

[O.city]

Nor do most metrics.

That said, he's a plus athlete with good instincts. He'd almost certainly get better as he got more comfortable. I suspect he'd be an above average defender in center for them given some time.

But he's also a big man and that's a lot of weight on his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if right about the time he started feeling like CF was 'home', he's start to lose some of the athletic chops to excel at it.

I went from wanting him to get back to his 2012 swing to now thinking the Cubs should just try to get him back to where he was in 14-15 and lead him off. Schwarber batting leadoff in an NL lineup (as has been rumored) is a hell of a waste unless they also intend to bat the pitcher 8th. His ability to drive in runs would be almost worthless from there.

I'd put Zobrist there but if they could get Heyward back up to a .355 OBP with 20 steals, he'd be a big time help in that he would allow them to maintain that savage middle of the order with Bryant - Rizzo - Schwarber - Russell - Contreras. Man...**** those guys and their dozen superstar hitters.

Not a bad idea. I think the ship on him being a power bat and the guy we thought he'd be has sailed. But the beauty of the Cubs setup is that they don't need him to be that guy. Let him leadoff, with Zobrist hitting 2nd and set the table for the middle of that lineup.

Sucks to pay that much for what Hayward likely is, but with all the young players they have, it isn't a bid deal.

[DJ's left nut]

True. All of it's true. Sadly, true.

Fowler has had a good spring though, which is nice to see. Yadi was good in the WBC.

I'm just ready for baseball.

I'm ready for baseball as well. Watching Diaz stay on top of a Strasburg fastball at his letters and drive it into RC for an RBI double a couple of weeks ago pretty much got me rock hard.

And yet, I'll see the lineup. And in that lineup we'll have Kolten Wong at 2b and the decaying corpse of Jhonny Peralta at 3b, then I'll be sad again. And in short order we'll see a game where we send $23 million worth of pitcher to the hill in Mike Leake and Brett Cecil....only to cry poor when it comes to extending Yadier Molina. Then I'll be angry again.

Meanwhile the Cubs will continue to accumulate hitters while we try to sell "Hey guys, Paul DeJong can play shortstop now even though he couldn't in the Missouri Valley Conference and Patrick Wisdom learned to hit after not being able to for 7 years!!! I promise!!!"

Ugh....

[O.city]

The alleys in Busch are also 20 feet deeper. Fowler has been a horrible defender over his career and he just scraped together a +1 DRS year in CF at Wrigley. He was -12 the year before in Wrigley, -20 in Houston and a combined -21 over his last 3 years in Colorado. Heyward had a +2 DRS in 51 innings in CF for the Cardinals and he had a +4 in CF for the Cubs last year in 171 innings. He would be a much better CF than Fowler. His bat may not be as good, we'll see, but the Cubs would gain Jimenez in RF who has a 70 power rating.

I think he'd be a good Cf'er. I don't think he'd be great. But with the friendly confines of Wrigley, he might be.

I also don't think his bat will be as good as Fowlers.

[O.city]

I'm ready for baseball as well. Watching Diaz stay on top of a Strasburg fastball at his letters and drive it into RC for an RBI double a couple of weeks ago pretty much got me rock hard.

And yet, I'll see the lineup. And in that lineup we'll have Kolten Wong at 2b and the decaying corpse of Jhonny Peralta at 3b, then I'll be sad again. And in short order we'll see a game where we send $23 million worth of pitcher to the hill in Mike Leake and Brett Cecil....only to cry poor when it comes to extending Yadier Molina. Then I'll be angry again.

Meanwhile the Cubs will continue to accumulate hitters while we try to sell "Hey guys, Paul DeJong can play shortstop now even though he couldn't in the Missouri Valley Conference and Patrick Wisdom learned to hit after not being able to for 7 years!!! I promise!!!"

Ugh....

There's no way Yadi isn't a Cardinal next year. I'll believe it when I see it.

And I'll watch Peralta lumber out there for a year if you promise me I get to see Machado wear the birds on the bat for the next 10 years at 3rd base.

[O.city]

They should just have Wong watch Tony Womack replay's over and over all offseason. Instead, I'm sure Robby Cano was the option of choice.

Yuck.

[DJ's left nut]

There's no way Yadi isn't a Cardinal next year. I'll believe it when I see it.

And I'll watch Peralta lumber out there for a year if you promise me I get to see Machado wear the birds on the bat for the next 10 years at 3rd base.

Can we give him 20% more than he's worth for 20% too long and still pay less than $20 million/season?

Because if not, Mozeliak's out.

Machado is Barneys. Mozeliak's more of a Target man.

[DJ's left nut]

They should just have Wong watch Tony Womack replay's over and over all offseason. Instead, I'm sure Robby Cano was the option of choice.

Yuck.

Wong Gone, motherfucker.

Wong. Gone.

{ugh...he actually had this put on a t-shirt. And wore it. In public. To spring training. I hate that man so much}

[O.city]

Can we give him 20% more than he's worth for 20% too long and still pay less than $20 million/season?

Because if not, Mozeliak's out.

Machado is Barneys. Mozeliak's more of a Target man.

Surely to christ they'd be in on Manny if he hit the market right? I mean, it lines up to perfect for what they need. Right?

They'll tell us they tried and they came in 2nd, but fuck.

[O.city]

Wong Gone, mother****er.

Wong. Gone.

{ugh...he actually had this put on a t-shirt. And wore it. In public. To spring training. I hate that man so much}

Yeah, I dunno how to respond to that.

Whats sad is that he actually has some quick hands, if he'd try to be a gap player instead of a 25 HR guy, I think he'd be somewhat valuable.

[DJ's left nut]

Surely to christ they'd be in on Manny if he hit the market right? I mean, it lines up to perfect for what they need. Right?

They'll tell us they tried and they came in 2nd, but fuck.

Nah, they'll give Mike Moustakas 20% more than he's worth for 20% too long and then claim they don't have a place to put Machado.

[O.city]

Nah, they'll give Mike Moustakas 20% more than he's worth for 20% too long and then claim they don't have a place to put Machado.

Fuck, probably.

I've got my shit all lined up for Machado. Jersey, underwear, tattoo etc. I fucking love that dude.

[jd1020]

Machado is gonna be wearing Dodger blue in 2019. Gonzalez's contract ends in 2018 and they can just move Turner over to 1B. Even if the Cardinals wanted to I don't see them being in the ballpark of what its going to take to sign him.

[O.city]

I figure the Dodgers will be big Eric Hosmer bidders, and potentially Bryce but I've got him in pinstripes.

[jd1020]

I figure the Dodgers will be big Eric Hosmer bidders, and potentially Bryce but I've got him in pinstripes.

The Dodgers will be in on everyone. The amount of money they have on the books for 2019 right now is nothing. Pretty sure the only position player they even have signed for the 2019 season is Turner. Obviously guys like Seager will be there too, but...

[DJ's left nut]

The Dodgers will be in on everyone. The amount of money they have on the books for 2019 right now is nothing. Pretty sure the only position player they even have signed for the 2019 season is Turner. Obviously guys like Seager will be there too, but...

But where do you put them all? If they get Hosmer, do they move Seager to 2b to make room for Machado at SS and Turner at 3b? Then when Turner's contract expires move Seager again? Or move Machado back to 3b?

I guess they could just swallow 1/2 of Turner's deal and move him outright - wouldn't be hard for them.

I just can't believe they're able to spend like this with the debt service that came on a billion dollar purchase price. They're still blowing teams out of the water in an environment where teams like the Cardinals have had their teams paid for for years. It's crazy.

And it's why Cards fans should be pretty disappointed if/when DeWitt decides to sell the team. When the folks that buy it also have to factor in the tens of millions they're spending every year for the right to own it, that's coming straight from their baseball ops budget.

[jd1020]

But where do you put them all? If they get Hosmer, do they move Seager to 2b to make room for Machado at SS and Turner at 3b? Then when Turner's contract expires move Seager again? Or move Machado back to 3b?

I guess they could just swallow 1/2 of Turner's deal and move him outright - wouldn't be hard for them.

I just can't believe they're able to spend like this with the debt service that came on a billion dollar purchase price. They're still blowing teams out of the water in an environment where teams like the Cardinals have had their teams paid for for years. It's crazy.

And it's why Cards fans should be pretty disappointed if/when DeWitt decides to sell the team. When the folks that buy it also have to factor in the tens of millions they're spending every year for the right to own it, that's coming straight from their baseball ops budget.

Move Turner to 2B. Hosmer at 1B. Machado at 3B.

Turners second most played position is 2B.

[DJ's left nut]

Move Turner to 2B. Hosmer at 1B. Machado at 3B.

Turners second most played position is 2B.

Hard to ask an older player to make a switch to the other side of the diamond, even if it's a guy that's played there in the past.

2b requires more flexibility than people realize. Not just the pivot but merely the act of catching, turning and throwing. I think it's harder on the body than playing 3b and by a fair amount. More of the game is played behind you or moving away from you at that point as well.

That would be his age 33 season without having played a significant amount of 2b since 2011. Seems like a damn tough ask to me. I think that's why the Cardinals have finally given up on the idea of trying Carpenter at 2b even if it's far enough up the defensive spectrum to make him ridiculously valuable there if he's even adequate defensively.

It might work, it's just not the way I'd go about it.

[O.city]

Overpay for him then if they have to. Enough coming in 2nd. They've struck out on so many free agents then overpaid for shit, enough.

[VAChief]

When will MLB rule on Luis Robert's free agency request?

[DJ's left nut]

When will MLB rule on Luis Robert's free agency request?

He hasn't been able to prove/establish residency yet.

By most accounts, MLB is waiting on him at this point. I think they'll get it done and I think he'll be moving heaven and earth to make it happen, but there are hurdles w/r/t proving residency and documentation, etc... required that appear to be tripping him up.

And I fully expect the Cardinals to come in 2nd. It's what they do.

[VAChief]

He hasn't been able to prove/establish residency yet.

By most accounts, MLB is waiting on him at this point. I think they'll get it done and I think he'll be moving heaven and earth to make it happen, but there are hurdles w/r/t proving residency and documentation, etc... required that appear to be tripping him up.

And I fully expect the Cardinals to come in 2nd. It's what they do.

I have 3 extra bedrooms he is welcome anytime! :)

If they come in second to the Padres l'll be pissed. If he is as good as everyone thinks it would give us some pieces to move at the deadline for pitching if needed.

[DJ's left nut]

I really can't stand Kolten Wong...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wong-would-rather-be-traded-than-platoon-at-second-base/article_9d03dd0f-b604-5be7-8a44-0287814094da.html

A Garcia/Gyorko platoon would smoke Wong's production as an everyday player. And Wong, who has NEVER established himself as a consistently productive everyday player, believes his goddamn contract makes him entitled to the starting job.

What a spectacular asshole.

[scho63]

How are you Cardinals fans feeling as Spring Training gets close to wrapping up?

Confident?
Concerned?
Like what you see?
Unsure?

My Pirates are having a good spring training but I don't know more than half of the guys playing this spring.

Jung Ho Kang looks like "he no play baseball in US" this year. He is a drunken mess

[raybec 4]

How are you Cardinals fans feeling as Spring Training gets close to wrapping up?

Confident?
Concerned?
Like what you see?
Unsure?

My Pirates are having a good spring training but I don't know more than half of the guys playing this spring.

Jung Ho Kang looks like "he no play baseball in US" this year. He is a drunken mess

I thought they were a .500 ball club before the spring. Nothing has changed my mind.

[scho63]

I thought they were a .500 ball club before the spring. Nothing has changed my mind.

Are you guys getting any younger? Your roster seems a little older than many other teams

[DJ's left nut]

How are you Cardinals fans feeling as Spring Training gets close to wrapping up?

Confident?
Concerned?
Like what you see?
Unsure?

My Pirates are having a good spring training but I don't know more than half of the guys playing this spring.

Jung Ho Kang looks like "he no play baseball in US" this year. He is a drunken mess

Resigned and oddly ambivalent.

Our ceiling is a wild-card because the Cubs have blown us off the map. So with a wild-card game, you're left with a play in and the hopes that Mike Matheny doesn't somehow mangle the shit of out it (he will). That said, if he gets lucky and the Smash Brothers (Kolten Wong and Matt Adams) drive in 9 while Mike Leake pitches a shutout, we'll advance to a 5 game where we'll again have to ask Mike Matheny to stay out of the way (ideally, just stay home).

Teams might actually be creeped out enough by the zombified flesh of Adam Wainwrights charred corpse that we can steal one of his starts and hope that Carlos Martinez can steal a couple on his own. Then we'll get fisted by the Cubs. And the manager we should've hired.

There's no ceiling on this team. There aren't any true breakout candidates and the young talent is still years off (meanwhile Allen Cordoba will probably stick with the Padres - more nice work, Moe). The Cards will neither commit to a rebuild or take the chances necessary to build an actual contender. So we'll sit in the squishy middle for 5 years and Mozeliak will hope that someone hands him another 2009 kind of draft that he can piss away with his idiot manager and generally risk-averse roster manipulations.

[raybec 4]

I really can't stand Kolten Wong...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wong-would-rather-be-traded-than-platoon-at-second-base/article_9d03dd0f-b604-5be7-8a44-0287814094da.html

A Garcia/Gyorko platoon would smoke Wong's production as an everyday player. And Wong, who has NEVER established himself as a consistently productive everyday player, believes his goddamn contract makes him entitled to the starting job.

What a spectacular asshole.

That guy is such a bitch. I can't believe Mo threw so much cash at such a below average hitter and average fielder.

[DJ's left nut]

That guy is such a bitch. I can't believe Mo threw so much cash at such a below average hitter and average fielder.

Guaranteed more than $10 million in 3 seasons.

Can't wait. We'll have $32 million invested in Wong, Leake and Cecil in 2020.

And people say that DeWitt is just pocketing that cable money. Look at all that coin. No wonder a WAR costs $8 million on the open market these days - with guys like Mozeliak giving $30 million for...well nothing really....it helps inflate the numbers a bit.

[raybec 4]

Guaranteed more than $10 million in 3 seasons.

Can't wait. We'll have $32 million invested in Wong, Leake and Cecil in 2020.

And people say that DeWitt is just pocketing that cable money. Look at all that coin. No wonder a WAR costs $8 million on the open market these days - with guys like Mozeliak giving $30 million for...well nothing really....it helps inflate the numbers a bit.

Jesus, Leake is an absolute abortion and Wong must have naked pics of Mo's German Shepard or some damn thing.

[rico]

How are you Cardinals fans feeling as Spring Training gets close to wrapping up?

Confident?
Concerned?
Like what you see?
Unsure?

My Pirates are having a good spring training but I don't know more than half of the guys playing this spring.

Jung Ho Kang looks like "he no play baseball in US" this year. He is a drunken mess

I've definitely felt better...

Pretty much in the same boat as raybec...

[DJ's left nut]

So Lance Lynn could pitch in Colorado, couldn't he?

Guy doesn't throw anything but bowling ball sinkers. It would seem that if anybody's arsenal works in Colorado, it's his.

So with Arenado, LeMahieu and Story, the Rox are loaded on the infield. And they will be for another 3+ years at least because all those guys are still quite young.

So if they're in contention at mid-season, would Oh and Lynn be enough to get them to listen on Brendan Rodgers? Adams included as a LH complement to Desmond (they've shown interest in Adams in the past and if Cargo walks, Desmond can go back to the OF next season).

The Cards need to look to the future and Lynn/Oh aren't part of that.

[ChiefsCountry]

Pretty cool deal if you lived close
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/03/22/attend-every-cardinals-home-game-for-30-per-month/

[Marcellus]

Jesus, Leake is an absolute abortion and Wong must have naked pics of Mo's German Shepard or some damn thing.

Leake has been absolutely lights out this spring. Needs to translate but Jesus, 1 year is all the guy gets?

Wong needs to go.

[jd1020]

Leake has been absolutely lights out this spring. Needs to translate but Jesus, 1 year is all the guy gets?

Leake has been around in MLB for a long time and has only managed a couple decent seasons and owns a below average career ERA+.

He's Jason Hammel, only making double his AAV with 3 extra years attached.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Mike Leake has dominated grocery baggers for a few weeks. Awesome.

[DJ's left nut]

Leake has been around in MLB for a long time and has only managed a couple decent seasons and owns a below average career ERA+.

He's Jason Hammel, only making double his AAV with 3 extra years attached.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I should pretend like it was just one bad year.

It was 1 bad year on the heels of 6 years of abject mediocrity. When 'eh' is as good as you can hope for and you've now burned your best shot at building excess value in a long-term contract, I'd say it's fair to start writing up the obituary on the Leake deal.

It may not be fair to publish it yet, but I'd go ahead and have a rough draft ready to go...

[raybec 4]

Leake has been absolutely lights out this spring. Needs to translate but Jesus, 1 year is all the guy gets?

Wong needs to go.

Lights out in spring training means fuckall, he has a history of being lit up.

[DJ's left nut]

Lights out in spring training means fuckall, he has a history of being lit up.

He's a great hitter - Dan told me so. And Dan also says he's a great fielder.

Nobody backs up 3b like Mike Leake, man. Everytime somebody rings a double into the RC gap, Leake knows exactly where to stand just in case somebody airmails a throw. He's heady like that.

Talking about Mike Leake's hitting became almost as common as "That's a ball Jason Heyward usually gets to" right after Jason Heyward failed to get to yet another ball.

Man, I'm getting really excited to hear Dan tell me stuff that I'm just clearly not smart enough to see with my own two eyes. And that has to be the case because it's pretty common that when he's talking, I have no !@#$ing clue what he's rambling on about. I learn a lot by listening to Dan.

[raybec 4]

He's a great hitter - Dan told me so. And Dan also says he's a great fielder.

Nobody backs up 3b like Mike Leake, man. Everytime somebody rings a double into the RC gap, Leake knows exactly where to stand just in case somebody airmails a throw. He's heady like that.

Talking about Mike Leake's hitting became almost as common as "That's a ball Jason Heyward usually gets to" right after Jason Heyward failed to get to yet another ball.

Man, I'm getting really excited to hear Dan tell me stuff that I'm just clearly not smart enough to see with my own two eyes. And that has to be the case because it's pretty common that when he's talking, I have no !@#$ing clue what he's rambling on about. I learn a lot by listening to Dan.
I'd take Dan over Hungo telling everyone 80 times a year how Ted Simmons oughta be in the Hall, and that goddamned 20+ inning Met game story.

[DJ's left nut]

I'd take Dan over Hungo telling everyone 80 times a year how Ted Simmons oughta be in the Hall, and that goddamned 20+ inning Met game story.

In fairness to Al, if they gave me a microphone, I'd tell everyone 80 times a year that it's a goddamn travesty that Jimmy Edmonds didn't see a second ballot.

I'd probably end every inning with it. "And there's a routine grounder to 2b....OFF WONG but it bounces to Carpenter who DIVES to beat the runner to the bag for the out. Heady play by Wong and it looks like Carpenter is down on the field. Onto the top of the 6th, Cardinals trail 7-2, and it's !@#$ing absurd that Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame and Jim Edmonds couldn't even get 2 years on the ballot...."

[raybec 4]

In fairness to Al, if they gave me a microphone, I'd tell everyone 80 times a year that it's a goddamn travesty that Jimmy Edmonds didn't see a second ballot.

I'd probably end every inning with it. "And there's a routine grounder to 2b....OFF WONG but it bounces to Carpenter who DIVES to beat the runner to the bag for the out. Heady play by Wong and it looks like Carpenter is down on the field. Onto the top of the 6th, Cardinals trail 7-2, and it's !@#$ing absurd that Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame and Jim Edmonds couldn't even get 2 years on the ballot...."

ROFL I suppose that's even more pronounced for Al since he and Simba played together. I have to say I enjoyed listening to Ankiel call a couple of spring games. He told a story about how when he had Mac and Rolen on the corners and Matheny behind the dish he didn't worry about hitting people because he knew he could dance around long enough for help to arrive.

[bdj23]

Leake sucks.

Glad baseball is back though.

[Jewish Rabbi]

He's a great hitter - Dan told me so. And Dan also says he's a great fielder.

Nobody backs up 3b like Mike Leake, man. Everytime somebody rings a double into the RC gap, Leake knows exactly where to stand just in case somebody airmails a throw. He's heady like that.

Talking about Mike Leake's hitting became almost as common as "That's a ball Jason Heyward usually gets to" right after Jason Heyward failed to get to yet another ball.

Man, I'm getting really excited to hear Dan tell me stuff that I'm just clearly not smart enough to see with my own two eyes. And that has to be the case because it's pretty common that when he's talking, I have no !@#$ing clue what he's rambling on about. I learn a lot by listening to Dan.
That raging douche blocked me on Twitter for calling him out for his shitty broadcasting.

[Marcellus]

Lights out in spring training means fuckall, he has a history of being lit up.

Hence where I said "it needs to translate".

You guys are some cranky bitches.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Fire Dan and Al. Embarrassing a team like this has those clowns calling games. They should be across the state.

[DJ's left nut]

Fire Dan and Al. Embarrassing a team like this has those clowns calling games. They should be across the state.

They're all the same. You can't find a local crew that isn't all about inane babble and ball-washing.

But at least put Edmonds up there more often. That guy was entertaining as hell.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

They're all the same. You can't find a local crew that isn't all about inane babble and ball-washing.

But at least put Edmonds up there more often. That guy was entertaining as hell.

I'd take anyone over those morons. Such amazing comeback win game ending calls like..."LOOK AT THAT BENCH!!"

[DJ's left nut]

These are hysterical...well, presuming you watched The Office.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Episode 1: &quot;The Interview&quot; <a href="https://t.co/18Esl7IJgr">pic.twitter.com/18Esl7IJgr</a></p>&mdash; Double Birds (@2xBirds) <a href="https://twitter.com/2xBirds/status/843996112155566081">March 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Episode 2: &quot;The Slump&quot; <a href="https://t.co/gAf1CuEIGM">pic.twitter.com/gAf1CuEIGM</a></p>&mdash; Double Birds (@2xBirds) <a href="https://twitter.com/2xBirds/status/844356906995105792">March 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Episode 3: &quot;The Investment&quot; <a href="https://t.co/7SJTw9sefA">pic.twitter.com/7SJTw9sefA</a></p>&mdash; Double Birds (@2xBirds) <a href="https://twitter.com/2xBirds/status/844713655480598534">March 23, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="et" dir="ltr">Episode 4: &quot;Team Chemistry&quot; <a href="https://t.co/8gMkmtX18w">pic.twitter.com/8gMkmtX18w</a></p>&mdash; Double Birds (@2xBirds) <a href="https://twitter.com/2xBirds/status/845078848098197504">March 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[raybec 4]

Holy shit, those are hilarious. especially the Bankruptcy one, I was laughing too loud at work.....way too loud

[DJ's left nut]

Holy shit, those are hilarious. especially the Bankruptcy one, I was laughing too loud at work.....way too loud

People actually stopped by my office. I was crying.

"I. Declare.....BANKRUPTCY!!!!!"

Dying. Just dying.

[VAChief]

Heyward is also working on revamping his mechanics and battling with breaking old habits. It may or may not amount to much but then again you still have Piscotty at .466.

Piscotty is also struggling this spring, but at the league minimum. If he busts he costs virtually nothing. Heyward has been trending down for years. We are lucky the baby bears wanted him.

[Marco Polo]

What would we have to give up?

According to Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports, the Cardinals "have quietly showed interest" in White Sox starter Jose Quintana.
Heyman notes that the Astros and Pirates have been the perceived frontrunners for Quintana, but he calls their pursuits of the left-handed ace "passive" up to this point. In his report Heyman then labels the Cardinals a "sleeper team," with the "combination of young players and prospects to make it work." The asking price is undoubtedly sky-high for Quintana, who boasts a 3.35 ERA over the last four seasons and a team-friendly contract that runs through 2020. He is currently projected to serve as the Opening Day starter for the rebuilding White Sox.

[Marco Polo]

p.s. Flying to STL tomorrow for my ninth Opening Day in the last 10 years! Let's hope for good weather and a Cardinals victory on Sunday night.

[DJ's left nut]

p.s. Flying to STL tomorrow for my ninth Opening Day in the last 10 years! Let's hope for good weather and a Cardinals victory on Sunday night.

They can't trump what the Astros will be able/willing to offer, IMO.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see the 'stros eventually decide to part with Bregman if needed. They'd surely do everything in their power to avoid it, but if they're sitting there in July and feel they're a legit top of the rotation starter away from putting some distance between themselves and Texas, I think they'll pull the trigger. They have the prospect depth to take the hit.

At the very least they'd eventually give up Kyle Tucker and I can't see the Cardinals dabbling in that rich a pool. Unless Bader were to elevate his prospect status to at least within shouting distance of Tucker, I don't think they can pull it off. Even if Bader were to make that leap, the Astros would likely be able to include Martes with Tucker and where's that leave STL? Weaver and Bader doesn't get near that.

[raybec 4]

They can't trump what the Astros will be able/willing to offer, IMO.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see the 'stros eventually decide to part with Bregman if needed. They'd surely do everything in their power to avoid it, but if they're sitting there in July and feel they're a legit top of the rotation starter away from putting some distance between themselves and Texas, I think they'll pull the trigger. They have the prospect depth to take the hit.

At the very least they'd eventually give up Kyle Tucker and I can't see the Cardinals dabbling in that rich a pool. Unless Bader were to elevate his prospect status to at least within shouting distance of Tucker, I don't think they can pull it off. Even if Bader were to make that leap, the Astros would likely be able to include Martes with Tucker and where's that leave STL? Weaver and Bader doesn't get near that.

Maybe the 'Stros have some information on their prospects in some type of database the Cards could get a look at. That would be really cool.

[Miles]

Looks like a Yadi extension just got done with details still coming out. I dot have much perspective on the amount but nice to see him extended.

Ken Rosenthal‏ @Ken_Rosenthal

Sources: Molina three-year extension with #STLCards will be between $55M and $65M.

[VAChief]

They can't trump what the Astros will be able/willing to offer, IMO.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see the 'stros eventually decide to part with Bregman if needed. They'd surely do everything in their power to avoid it, but if they're sitting there in July and feel they're a legit top of the rotation starter away from putting some distance between themselves and Texas, I think they'll pull the trigger. They have the prospect depth to take the hit.

At the very least they'd eventually give up Kyle Tucker and I can't see the Cardinals dabbling in that rich a pool. Unless Bader were to elevate his prospect status to at least within shouting distance of Tucker, I don't think they can pull it off. Even if Bader were to make that leap, the Astros would likely be able to include Martes with Tucker and where's that leave STL? Weaver and Bader doesn't get near that.

I think I read that the WSox have inquired before about Kelly. It most likely would have to include him. Kelly, Bader, and Weaver would be our top three rated prospects (not necessarily how I would rate them). It could be enough.

[DJ's left nut]

I think I read that the WSox have inquired before about Kelly. It most likely would have to include him. Kelly, Bader, and Weaver would be our top three rated prospects (not necessarily how I would rate them). It could be enough.

Steep price to still be worse than Chicago at every spot on the field...

[VAChief]

Steep price to still be worse than Chicago at every spot on the field...

Definitely risky, but we don't have any real upside lefties anywhere on the horizon.

[bdj23]

https://youtu.be/zWmIb5kdz9s

In honor of our last glorious day.

(Baseball is finally here)

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Cool, the perfect cure for insomnia

[ChiefsCountry]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/done-deal-cardinals-secure-molina-s-legacy-sign-him-through/article_657b74a9-867e-53e1-b80b-c546844bfff2.html

20 million per year for Yadi. That's a tough one to know which way to go on that one.

[Marcellus]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/done-deal-cardinals-secure-molina-s-legacy-sign-him-through/article_657b74a9-867e-53e1-b80b-c546844bfff2.html

20 million per year for Yadi. That's a tough one to know which way to go on that one.

Too much $ period. Seems like a reactionary deal to me. They didn't want to lose another HOF player to another team to end their career so they over paid.

[bdj23]

Our march to the World Series starts now.

Go Cards go

(I'm drunk btw)

[O.city]

Anyone else think that anthem was terrible

[Jewish Rabbi]

Chuck Berry certainly didn't pass any of his talent to his daughter.

[O.city]

Not starting Wong opening night. Starting the mind fuck early I guess

[HonestChieffan]

Hope the Cubbies do damage tonight.

[jd1020]

Anyone else think that anthem was terrible

Just everyone who heard it that's not related to the Berry family.

[Prison Bitch]

3/60 extension for a catcher with 14 years under his belt? Why?

[O.city]

Not going to be fun watching Peralta all season

[jd1020]

I hope this Schwarber in leadoff experiment doesn't last long.

Please just put Zobrist there and let everyone else drive him in. Asking the pitcher and Baez to get on base for him is like forfeiting 30 RBIs.

[Swanman]

Not starting Wong opening night. Starting the mind fuck early I guess
I would have better at bats against Lester than he would. He should never, ever, ever, ever start against lefties, especially ace lefties.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Swanman]

I hope this Schwarber in leadoff experiment doesn't last long.

Please just put Zobrist there and let everyone else drive him in. Asking the pitcher and Baez to get on base for him is like forfeiting 30 RBIs.
Maddon can't manage without getting cute and acting like he is smarter than the game. Great manager overall but does stupid shit at times

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Jewish Rabbi]

I hope this Schwarber in leadoff experiment doesn't last long.

Please just put Zobrist there and let everyone else drive him in. Asking the pitcher and Baez to get on base for him is like forfeiting 30 RBIs.

I don't understand tonight's lineup at all for the Cubs.

[jd1020]

I don't understand tonight's lineup at all for the Cubs.

I can understand it from the perspective of Schwarbers batters eye, but they have no one in the lineup to put in the 9th spot that makes consistent contact and gets on base other than Zobrist but you aren't going to bat him 9th.

Maddon was brain dead in the WS with Zobrist hitting clean up in Chicago and it took a miracle and a stupid ass All-Star rule to get RBI hitters in RBI spots to start scoring runs. Luckily he still had Fowler to save his ass in the leadoff spot but now he's gone and Zobrist is the only one that can fill that role but he's a power hitter now, apparently.

[bdj23]

C-mart dealing

[kcpasco]

Watching Heyward continue to suck ass makes me smile. That's s bad player on a good team.

[jd1020]

Wonder why the Cubs didn't challenge Fowlers slide. Slid through the bag and ended up 3 feet passed it while kicking his legs way out of the base path to make contact with Russell. Cheap way to get a double play but that's about as clear cut as it gets.

[KChiefs1]

C-mart dealing



Matheny kept him in too long though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kcpasco]

Matheny kept him in too long though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Martinez was fine starting the 8th. Oh needs to not shit the bed.

[jd1020]

God I wish Rizzo was thinking bunt on the first pitch.

That was a free run with that defense. 3rd baseman was playing at shortstop.

[bdj23]

Got away from that one.

[bdj23]

There you go, grichuk

[jd1020]

Fastballs to a guy that can't hit a slider with a guy that has a very good slider.

Whatever. Way to many walks from the pitchers today and a stupid lineup from Maddon just to get all the players from the world series on the field.

[bdj23]

Fastballs to a guy that can't hit a slider with a guy that has a very good slider.

Whatever. Way to many walks from the pitchers today and a stupid lineup from Maddon just to get all the players from the world series on the field.

Feel free to fuck off

[kcpasco]

Nice brain fart Marp

[Chiefspants]

You could almost feel that one coming.

[jd1020]

Feel free to **** off

Oh first?

[tk13]

That didn't work.

[kcpasco]

You wear the horns tonight Marp

[jd1020]

That IBB rule just seems awkward.

[raybec 4]

Carp blew it but why is Mike trying to get 6 outs from Oh in the opener? That's just stupid. Use the pen, tomorrow's an off dsy.

[raybec 4]

Way too close to take with a 9th inning tie Piscotty

[raybec 4]

Shitty defense was a real problem last year, it's opening day and it's already a problem again

[raybec 4]

Kid Randall

[bdj23]

Ayyyy

[raybec 4]

Martinez was nails tonight

[jd1020]

Another walk to set up the game winning hit.

[kcpasco]

That IBB rule just seems awkward.

I agree, I don't like it at all.

[Frazod]

Martinez was nails tonight

Glad he was. Jesus, could they have possibly stranded any more fucking runners? That was uglier than a bulldog's asshole. :banghead:

[jd1020]

I agree, I don't like it at all.

I don't see why they couldn't just implement what video games have been doing for a long time now... 1 pitch with the catcher signaling for a walk. At least then you would still get the feeling of an at bat.

[DJ's left nut]

That last AB demonstrates why Grichuk can't bat 8th. Hell, his HR did as well.

In the 8th, Oh had already been doubled switched into the cleanup spot (because Matheny is retarded). But the unintentional consequence of that was to ensure that there's someone that can actually swing a bat behind Grichuk. So what happened? He got the strike he needs to do damage.

In the 9th with the bases loaded and nowhere to put him, of course he was going to get at least one pitch to hit.

Randall Grichuk is just so damn dangerous when he gets a strike that one of the very first considerations for Mike Matheny when putting together a lineup should be "will this get Randall Grichuk at least 2 pitches to hit today?"

Because the guy has genuinely game-changing power. And if you bat him 8th, teams will pitch around him any chance they get. Why throw him a strike when the pitcher's behind him and he has a below average O-Strike rate? He's a guy that will chase pitches and if you put him in the 8 hole pitchers are all the more likely to throw slop up there to get him to get himself out. Worst case scenario is they walk him and the pitcher strands him.

It's ridiculous that Grichuk was batting 8 today. It's literally the single worst spot in the entire lineup for him, including leadoff.

[kcpasco]

I don't have any idea who should bat cleanup but I hope it's not Peralta all year.

[O.city]

I don't have any idea who should bat cleanup but I hope it's not Peralta all year.

As DJ mentioned above, the 8 hole ain't for Randal, I don't think the 4 spot is ether, but that's where I'd hit him. With the top 3 in the order currently as constructed, the cleanup guy is gonna have a fuck ton of guys on base in front of him all year.

Put grichuk there.

[Marcellus]

As DJ mentioned above, the 8 hole ain't for Randal, I don't think the 4 spot is ether, but that's where I'd hit him. With the top 3 in the order currently as constructed, the cleanup guy is gonna have a **** ton of guys on base in front of him all year.

Put grichuk there.

Why not Piscotty? I think he strikes out less.

He will end up there in the end unless he regresses.

[O.city]

I would imagine piscotty ends up there, and striking out kills, but I'd like to see grichuk hit as much as possible with guys in base

[Marcellus]

I would imagine piscotty ends up there, and striking out kills, but I'd like to see grichuk hit as much as possible with guys in base

Piscotty hit .362 With RISP last year. Its a natural spot for him.

[Marcellus]

And right on cue the Cards sign Piscotty to an extension.

[raybec 4]

Piscotty hit .362 With RISP last year. Its a natural spot for him.

Piscotty hit for shit all Spring, I don't like Matheny's managerial idiocy but my hope is if he starts hitting they move him up in the lineup. It should be Piscotty/Grichuk in either order in the 4/5 spots.

[Marcellus]

6 years $33.5MM for Piscotty. Not bad really.

[Swanman]

6 years $33.5MM for Piscotty. Not bad really.

It's a good deal if he produces and not a ton of money if he doesn't. He definitely seems to have a much better mental makeup than Wong (not a high bar to be sure) so hopefully he can work out the kinks in his hitting soon. I don't know how many years we bought out of his cheap years, but on the face the contract doesn't look awful.

[DJ's left nut]

6 years $33.5MM for Piscotty. Not bad really.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of what Polanco and Herrera signed - 5 years guaranteed with team options for 2 more, giving you 2 FA years in exchange for the guaranteed money.

That said, 6/33.5 is cheap enough that it's fine. Herrera's deal would be 7/$50 and Polanco's deal 7/$60 if both options were picked up. So Piscotty's deal has a little less team upside baked into it than Herrera's but is actually cheaper than Herrera's deal is through the first 6 (Herrera's would be 6/$41). Then again it should be as Herrera's giving up a 2nd year of FA with that 6th year.

Polanco's deal, OTOH, is quite a bit more expensive than Piscotty's. Polanco's is 6/$47.5 if the 7th year wasn't picked up. So Polanco, in exchange for that team option he gave the Pirates in year 7, is getting almost $15 million more than Piscotty in the first 6 years. And Polanco had the same service time when he signed his deal that Piscotty has now.

[O.city]

Huh, well that locks a lot of guys up thru 2020. Now they just need to find a long term 3rd baseman that can settle right into the heart of the lineup for the next 8 years.

Hum, tough find

[DJ's left nut]

Looks like they got the option for the 7th year afterall:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/sources-cardinals-complete-contract-extension-with-piscotty/article_bf0a16fd-dd79-586a-acb5-a48b8bf7ae44.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

So in essence, they pay a fair amount less than Polanco got through the first 6 years by guaranteeing the 6th (whereas Polanco's is a team option that will almost certainly be picked up). The 7th year is a bigger number than Polanco's 7th but is more than offset by the cost savings in the first 6. And since it's an option, the Cards could walk away from it.

So if you think that Polanco's likely a better player than Piscotty, that makes sense. But if you think they'll be roughly equally valuable (though in different ways), then Piscotty's deal is much more team friendly.

The question is which Piscotty is the real one - if it's the first half of 2016's Piscotty, the Cardinals just got a great deal. If it's the latter half, they have another Wong contract on their hands.

It's a solid gamble.

[raybec 4]

Looks like they got the option for the 7th year afterall:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/sources-cardinals-complete-contract-extension-with-piscotty/article_bf0a16fd-dd79-586a-acb5-a48b8bf7ae44.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

So in essence, they pay a fair amount less than Polanco got through the first 6 years by guaranteeing the 6th (whereas Polanco's is a team option that will almost certainly be picked up). The 7th year is a bigger number than Polanco's 7th but is more than offset by the cost savings in the first 6. And since it's an option, the Cards could walk away from it.

So if you think that Polanco's likely a better player than Piscotty, that makes sense. But if you think they'll be roughly equally valuable (though in different ways), then Piscotty's deal is much more team friendly.

The question is which Piscotty is the real one - if it's the first half of 2016's Piscotty, the Cardinals just got a great deal. If it's the latter half, they have another Wong contract on their hands.

It's a solid gamble.

I don't see Piscotty having a Wong like dropoff. I keep hearing he's trying to change the launch angle of his swing, which IMO is stupid and unneccisary, but who knows. I really have very little confidence in John Mabry. I don't know how a guy who was a career .263 hitter with less than 100 career dingers is a hitting coach but what do I know.

[jd1020]

I don't see Piscotty having a Wong like dropoff. I keep hearing he's trying to change the launch angle of his swing, which IMO is stupid and unneccisary, but who knows. I really have very little confidence in John Mabry. I don't know how a guy who was a career .263 hitter with less than 100 career dingers is a hitting coach but what do I know.

http://chicagocubsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/Mallee082315.jpg

Meet John Mallee, currently the hitting coach of the Chicago Cubs. You may recognize him from his days on the Phillies minor league teams where he hit .208 over his 2 year career while never making it to MLB.

[raybec 4]

http://chicagocubsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/Mallee082315.jpg

Meet John Mallee, currently the hitting coach of the Chicago Cubs. You may recognize him from his days on the Phillies minor league teams where he hit .208 over his 2 year career while never making it to MLB.

Is this the guy "retooling " Heyward? Because he looked lost last night.

[jd1020]

Is this the guy "retooling " Heyward? Because he looked lost last night.

He looked about as I expected. If anything is going to click with Heyward and get comfortable with his new stance it won't be for a couple months. I still don't like how much and how fast he bounces when the pitch is getting ready to be thrown and he still looks like he's getting loaded up way too late.

When the tweets were coming out on Heywards adjustments with his stance he looked way more fluid and rythmic. Only time will tell if he can dump the old habits.

His first AB last night was awful, but I thought his next 2 weren't horrible. The result was weak contact but at least he showed patience and a good eye.

[O.city]

Looks like the same jason heyward we've seen the last 2 or 3 years, imo.

[Marcellus]

Looks like the same jason heyward we've seen the last 2 or 3 years, imo.

He should be batting in the 9 hole.

[jd1020]

Looks like the same jason heyward we've seen the last 2 or 3 years, imo.

I don't get how you can say this.

He's holding the bat lower which is closer to the point where he starts his swing, his feet are more in line, he's not wrapping the bat around his shoulder, and he's not awkwardly twisting his hand forward around the handle.

The only thing that looks the same is the bounce.

He needs more work on his timing and I'd like to see him ditch the stupid bounce.

[Marcellus]

I don't get how you can say this.

He's holding the bat lower which is closer to the point where he starts his swing, his feet are more in line, he's not wrapping the bat around his shoulder, and he's not awkwardly twisting his hand forward around the handle.

The only thing that looks the same is the bounce.

He needs more work on his timing and I'd like to see him ditch the stupid bounce.

Just keep holding your breath, I am sure he can hit .230 this season given a few more months of working on it.

[jd1020]

Just keep holding your breath, I am sure he can hit .230 this season given a few more months of working on it.

And I'm sure if he doesn't it will matter just as much as last year.

[raybec 4]

There's a couple of videos at the link. He's trying to move his weight through the zone and not get stuck on that back foot.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/lets-take-a-look-at-cubs-jason-heywards-new-swing-after-his-struggles-in-2016/

[Marcellus]

And I'm sure if he doesn't it will matter just as much as last year.

Thats a nice luxury to have for sure.

[O.city]

I don't get how you can say this.

He's holding the bat lower which is closer to the point where he starts his swing, his feet are more in line, he's not wrapping the bat around his shoulder, and he's not awkwardly twisting his hand forward around the handle.

The only thing that looks the same is the bounce.

He needs more work on his timing and I'd like to see him ditch the stupid bounce.

He moved his hand position a few times in the year he was in STL. It didn't change much.

[jd1020]

Rough trip around the bases for Piscotty.

[O.city]

Storming here, my DirectTV is out. What am I missing.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Storming here, my DirectTV is out. What am I missing.

Piscotty HBP then scored on an infield hit and got nailed in the helmet on the throw home. Down on the field for a while and went into the tunnel when he got into the dugout, Dan and Al seem to think he is fine though.

[Jewish Rabbi]

It's Tim doing the game tonight, not Al, my bad.

[tk13]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Piscotty is living the Nordberg scene from Naked Gun.</p>&mdash; Ben Finfer (@BenFinfer) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenFinfer/status/849438240071458816">April 5, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[O.city]

Piscotty HBP then scored on an infield hit and got nailed in the helmet on the throw home. Down on the field for a while and went into the tunnel when he got into the dugout, Dan and Al seem to think he is fine though.

Thanks.

[jd1020]

Storming here, my DirectTV is out. What am I missing.

2-1 Cubs bottom 5.

Piscotty just got drilled in the head sliding into home after being HBP and hit by another throw sliding into 2nd.