The quarterback problem in the NFL. Solutions?

[Buehler445]

We’ve all seen the list of QBs that have won the Super Bowl. We all know we aren’t winning fuckall without a QB. We all know QBs are tough to find. We all know if you bomb a QB it’s going to cost everyone their job.

So this, IMO, has created a problem for the NFL. The ratings are down. There has been a lot of discussion as to why. I’m feeling it. I feel the monotony of winning big games but never really having a real shot at anything good – because the chiefs don’t have one of 5 or 6 players. In reality, it is probably the confluence of a bunch of other shit in addition to the ongoing QB thing. I made this post awhile back. I'll throw it in a spoiler, in case you want to peruse it.


Really though, I don't give a fuck. I'll stay in purgatory after climbing out the depths of hell thanks to Squirmin Herman Motherfucking Sack of Cunt Edwards and Scott Franchise Killer Pioli. Fuck man.

We aren't winning shit for awhile anyway. We don't consistently beat good teams so until we can do that, what's the fucking point of worrying about who is taking the snaps?

Between the Tire Fire days of Squirmin Herman Motherfucking Sack of Cunt Edwards and Scott Franchise Killer Pioli, and then right the fuck after that the CTE bullshit starts and they pull half our starters out because of "concussions" when we are raping some fools in the playoffs, to Donks becoming cheap shot artists and Von Douche not getting fined for obviously teeing off on Smith. Late. With the Crown. Launching. While a week later Tampa gets one for a fat OL sitting on him. Then through the whole London home game crap. All the way through to the tampering shit, Sean Smiths ridiculous suspension. Then these motherfuckers like Richard Sherman says his knees hurt while I climb on the tractor with arthritis in my knees ankles and hands but don't happen to have any $20M checks laying around. I'm just fucking tired man. What the fuck am I rooting for? It used to be football. Now it's fucking asenine PR driven nonsense that has only an ancillary correlation to football.

Maybe I'm grumpy after working a billion hours to get $3 corn harvested and $2.80 wheat planted, but I'm fucking tired of fucking nonsense.

Either way, I think the QB disparity fatigue is playing part of the NFL’s trouble. So the question becomes, what can the NFL do to rectify this? I’ll post my thoughts below.

[Buehler445]

My thoughts.

The way to offset the importance of the QB is to either increase the effectiveness of the defense or to increase the importance of other positions. That’s a tough ask because the QB handles the ball every play. But I think they can do some things to give the “other guys” a shot.

1. Find a way to curb injuries. The hitting and football shape arguments are going to have to go alone with the NFLPA, which probably won’t go along with fuck, but that is a pretty big deal when OTHER playmakers, particularly on the defensive side of the ball that can stop an offensive player. OLB, CB, etc. I’d like to see the rule that’s been talked about where if there is a targeting call and the injured player has to sit, the targeting player has to sit out the same amount of time. Obviously you’d have to cap it somewhere, but that could help keep guys on the field.

2. Roll back some of the downfield contact rules. If the defense can disrupt some timing routes it can offset the effectiveness of the Tom Brady’s of the world that are ridiculously efficient. It won’t help with the subjectivity, but if they want to improve the importance of defense, this will help.

3. Dump the fucking spot of the foul shit. Do 10 or 15 or whatever, but fuck the whole chuck and pray for flag bullshit. That isn’t good for anybody.

4. There is at least an optics problem with the application of subjective calls. And not just on CP. Virtually everyone I know has talked about the refs. Maybe it is just a function of the QB disparity fatigue, and maybe it has been a long time coming (Cam’s “you haven’t earned that call” bullshit.) but it needs to be addressed. Maybe it is a committee that reviews each play and the officiating provides feedback. Maybe it is published. I don’t know what the answer is, but the optics of it is a problem.

Just my $.02. What do you think?

[ChiefsCountry]

Ratings were down because they had record ratings the year before. After the election they shot back up. NFL is the same as it always has been.

[Amnorix]

Agreed as to 15 yards for a pass interference penalty, generally. One concern is what about the final play of the game -- guys in the end zone could destroy any WRs and essentially eliminate the hail mary from football. Not sure how to fix that.

I have no idea how to fix the subjective calls. Ultimately, all calls are subjective, and subject to human perception and human error. Did he hold? Did he hold for too long? Was there contact downfield? Who initiated it? Was he playing the ball or the receiver? Was it a catch? Did he hold the ball long enough?

Certain less obvious rule changes have eliminated the importance of other areas of the game. Belichick spoke about how there used to be six contested plays in special teams. Now, if you eliminate kickoffs, there are two -- punt and punt return. You can basically do nothing to block a field goal except leap the center. Can't overload, can't push, can't stack, can't be on the center, etc. etc. etc. The more OTHER plays you eliminate, the more you elevate the significance of the quarterback.

The main thing that might work is to elevate running backs somehow. Rule changes that weaken the efficiency of the passing game (more contact downfield) and strengthen the efficiency of the running game (not sure what can be done there).

But I agree -- this whole "if you have a good QB, you're good, if not you're DOOMED" is bad for football.

[Rasputin]

We do let Poe take over QB duties so more fatsos need to get opportunities to play quarterback.

[gold_and_red]

I think it is more of an issue with the AFC dominated by Brady and Peyton. The NFC is much more winnable by probability. Look at the number of different teams coming out.
Brady just kills the competitive balance, once he retires the likes of the Chiefs will have a genuine shot. I don't fear Luck, Mariota, Carr or a fading Ben, Rivers.

[KChiefs1]

15 yard penalty for DPI makes too much sense...I'm not sure why that hasn't changed yet?

Refs should try not to be the focus of the game. It's gotten so bad that we all expect flags on every play now. Pathetic.

QB's are more important now than ever because of the rules of the game. Everything favors the offenses nowadays. Until that changes then QB's will have an unhealthy importance in the game.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[loochy]

We don't consistently beat good teams so until we can do that, what's the ****ing point of worrying about who is taking the snaps?

Eh...because the person [potentially] taking the snaps can [potentially] drive us to consistently beat good teams....:shrug:

[ChiefsCountry]

From 1986 to 1998, 9 of the 13 Super Bowls were Elway and Jim Kelly from the AFC. It's nothing new folks.

[notorious]

Allow the secondary to play like they were allowed pre 2003 (when Indy and Peyton cried about holding).

[Fish]

We’ve all seen the list of QBs that have won the Super Bowl. We all know we aren’t winning fuckall without a QB. We all know QBs are tough to find. We all know if you bomb a QB it’s going to cost everyone their job.


I think this needs addressed first and foremost. QB is clearly the most important position on the field. But great franchise QBs are really hard to identify. Knowing that and having an environment where a mistake at the QB position can cost everyone their job and essentially ruin a team for a year or more doesn't allow for much parity. It leaves a handful of teams at the top, while the rest take turns risking their jobs rolling the dice. We need some method of reducing financial risk at that position. Because we're stuck supporting a team who's clearly taken a stand to avoid that risk for 3 decades now.

[O.city]

All these great qbs tend to be on great teams and good franchises.

Coincidence?

[Rain Man]

They kept changing the rules to promote passing, and that was purely a marketing strategy. Big offensive plays are exciting to casual fans and increase TV ratings. Then they kept making rules to keep quarterbacks from getting hit to be sure that the passing continued.

So what happened? Quarterbacks became huge stars making enormous money and their physical risk is minimal. A quarterback these days can easily play 15 years and we may already have 20+ year quarterbacks on rosters. By putting so much of a team's success on the passing game, these quarterbacks will play until their arms fall off, and it destroys competitive balance.

The answer is obvious, even if the NFL doesn't like it. You have to rebalance the game so that it's not a one-man show any more. You have to bring running backs back into the mix, and/or you have to re-adjust the rules to allow teams to play defense again.

It's easy to understand why the league pendulum shifted toward the pass, but it went too far and now it has to shift back. The way to do that is to have lower TV ratings and fan interest because everyone's bored with seeing Tom Brady getting his 15th ring or whatever.

[Buehler445]

Agreed as to 15 yards for a pass interference penalty, generally. One concern is what about the final play of the game -- guys in the end zone could destroy any WRs and essentially eliminate the hail mary from football. Not sure how to fix that.

I have no idea how to fix the subjective calls. Ultimately, all calls are subjective, and subject to human perception and human error. Did he hold? Did he hold for too long? Was there contact downfield? Who initiated it? Was he playing the ball or the receiver? Was it a catch? Did he hold the ball long enough?

Certain less obvious rule changes have eliminated the importance of other areas of the game. Belichick spoke about how there used to be six contested plays in special teams. Now, if you eliminate kickoffs, there are two -- punt and punt return. You can basically do nothing to block a field goal except leap the center. Can't overload, can't push, can't stack, can't be on the center, etc. etc. etc. The more OTHER plays you eliminate, the more you elevate the significance of the quarterback.

The main thing that might work is to elevate running backs somehow. Rule changes that weaken the efficiency of the passing game (more contact downfield) and strengthen the efficiency of the running game (not sure what can be done there).

But I agree -- this whole "if you have a good QB, you're good, if not you're DOOMED" is bad for football.

RE: Subjectivity.

Not all plays have to be subjective. The NFL is missing the boat on remote sensing IMO. Hell, a pressure sensor in the facemask can detect someone pulling. Have a dedicated douchebag in the booth reviewing the film when a sensor is tripped to make sure asshats aren't pulling their own facemasks, and call it safety. Win-Win. Same with a horsecollar sensor. If they tagged everybody that facemasked or horsecollared, that would help the running game. Position sensors in the crown of the helmet can show with absolution whether a hit was with the crown of the helmet or not.

FFS man, I have a decade old wore out piece of shit combine. Even though it is a decade old and wore the fuck out, virtually every shaft, chain, wheel and pulley has a sensor attached measuring speed. It can count how many SEEDS are coming out of the machine outside the cleaning shoe and sieve. It tells me how much mass flow (mass flow/productivity (speed*header width per unit time)=yield) to give me a real time yield number as well as moisture readings every 15 seconds. Everything that is variable has a sensor determining clearance, height, position, whatever. On the return elevator it has sensors determining capacity.

All this shit was available to a hayseed plow boy a decade ago. For not much money (the combine is hella expensive but if you strip off all the sensors - still hella expensive). Remote sensing has gone through the roof in the last decade. And with the resources available to the NFL - if they wanted to they could take some of it out.

RE: Simplifying the game

As far as taking rules out of the game, kickoffs or whatever, I'm not really in favor of that. Simplifying the game only takes plays out of the playbook, thus relying more on the QB. But there has to be a way to officiate this shit better.

RE: Running game

I think you can do some things, simply with clock to help improve the running game. One is take away the clock stoppage for incompletion. Maybe you have to stop it for :15 to get the ball or whatever, but whatever you do, you should make it the same for a running play. Maybe :15 to unpile everybody. If you take away the advantage of an incompletion on the clock, you're left with going out of bounds to stop the clock. Then a coach with a good running game could use that running game on a final drive and not think he has to pass every play to manage the clock.

Moreover, if you address the holding thing effectively, then that shifts some of the importance to passrush and off of the QB. Best way to offset speed rush? Run the ball where they were. Especially if it doesn't kill the clock.

There are some things that are doable, but it's probably a pipe dream because it will be "too much change" even though the dramatic rules changes that made it easier to pass the ball were dramatic paradigm shifting changes also (Unless you are Squirmin Herman Motherfucking Sack of Cunt Edwards... Fuck that fucking guy.)

[Discuss Thrower]

If they're not going to change defensive holding / illegal contact rules, then offensive holding should be five yards (or five yards added to yard-to-gain if backed up within five yards of the goal line) and loss of down.

[Buehler445]

Eh...because the person [potentially] taking the snaps can [potentially] drive us to consistently beat good teams....:shrug:

To be fair, that was the Alex Smith football pergatory thread. I was feeling particularly "fuck everybody-ish" that day. I probably should have took that sentence out.

[Amnorix]

Just read that the NFL had eight different champions the last eight years, until teh Pats won against last night. If Atlanta had won, it would've been nine for nine.

The 8 for 8 is the longest such record during the Super Bowl era. What is disguised in that is that two of those eight were Peyton Manning teams (Colts then Donx).

But still, this sort of suggests that maybe this isn't as big a league-wide problem as it seems. Or, at least, that this isn't a particularly BIG problem. Alot of teams are competitive, and there has been a fair bit of turnover, particularly in the NFC. The real scrwe job has been in the AFC, where Manning/ Brady/ Rivers/ Flacco/ Roethlisberger completely locked up the AFCCG for the past 15 or whatever years.

[Discuss Thrower]

http://i.imgur.com/cvimAan.png

Nnnnnnnnnnnope.


No QB problem in this sport. No sir.

[Rooster]

That is a crazy graphic. I knew the Pats owned the east but damn. LOL

[DaneMcCloud]

213 quarterbacks have been chosen since the NFL 2000 Draft.

10 QB's have won those 17 Super Bowls. 4.69% of all drafted QB's:

5 - Brady (6th round)
2 - Rothlisberger (1st round)
2 - P. Manning (1st round, two different teams)
2 - E. Manning (1st round)
1 - Brees (2nd round, 2nd NFL team)
1 - Dilfer (1st round, 2nd NFL team)
1 - Flacco (1st round)
1 - Johnson (9th round, 3rd NFL team)
1 - Rodgers (1st round)
1 - Wilson (3rd round)

If that's narrowed down to quarterbacks selected in the first round that have won a Super Bowl since 2000, it becomes 4.23%.

[Rain Man]

Just read that the NFL had eight different champions the last eight years, until teh Pats won against last night. If Atlanta had won, it would've been nine for nine.

The 8 for 8 is the longest such record during the Super Bowl era. What is disguised in that is that two of those eight were Peyton Manning teams (Colts then Donx).

But still, this sort of suggests that maybe this isn't as big a league-wide problem as it seems. Or, at least, that this isn't a particularly BIG problem. Alot of teams are competitive, and there has been a fair bit of turnover, particularly in the NFC. The real scrwe job has been in the AFC, where Manning/ Brady/ Rivers/ Flacco/ Roethlisberger completely locked up the AFCCG for the past 15 or whatever years.

Interesting stat on the Super Bowl.

Yeah, it seems like the discord may be on the AFC side. If you look at Super Bowl participants over the past 16 years (chosen because there are 16 teams in each conference), we see a huge disparity between the conferences:

12 of the 16 NFC teams have appeared in a Super Bowl, which is pretty amazing parity. That's almost unbelievable, actually, but the only four teams that haven't appeared are the Cowboys, Redskins, Lions, and Vikings.

On the AFC side, only 6 of the 16 teams have appeared in a Super Bowl. Four teams account for 14 of the Super Bowls.

So the Super Bowl champions are pretty diverse because the NFC side is incredibly diverse. If you're a fan of most AFC teams, you've been shut out for so long that it's no fun any more.

[The Franchise]

How about they maybe pay Brady what he's actually fucking worth instead of the bullshit contract that he's signed too.

[loochy]

How about they maybe pay Brady what he's actually ****ing worth instead of the bullshit contract that he's signed too.

poor guy

[Chief Pagan]

At least in the NFL if you draft a future HOF QB, you have a shot. When Indy got Peyton, they became a player and Peyton got the benefit of the doubt on calls like any other star.

In the NBA, you draft somebody like that in a small market and they tend to leave for the big market teams as soon as they become FAs.

Sure there are the occasional exceptions.

And Cleveland doesn't count because he left for Miami to win his first title.

[Amnorix]

That is a crazy graphic. I knew the Pats owned the east but damn. LOL


Can't speak to the other divisions durign that time period, certainly, but the 49ers had that same 14 out of 16 division crowns period of domination during the Montana/Young years.

But yeah, seeing that chart it is stunning.

[Rasputin]

http://i.imgur.com/cvimAan.png

Nnnnnnnnnnnope.


No QB problem in this sport. No sir.

The Lions and Bills oh my


Am I missing any other team that hasn't won a division off that chart?

[KC_Lee]

The Lions and Bills oh my


Am I missing any other team that hasn't won a division off that chart?

The eternal cellar dwellers the Cleveland Browns.

[PHOG]

The Lions and Bills oh my


Am I missing any other team that hasn't won a division off that chart?

Also, Jags.

[Buehler445]

http://i.imgur.com/cvimAan.png

Nnnnnnnnnnnope.


No QB problem in this sport. No sir.

Yikes. Was 2008 the Casshole year?

[Amnorix]

Yikes. Was 2008 the Casshole year?


Yes.

What you're not seeing is that the two years the Pats DIDN'T win the division, they were TIED for best record in the division, losing only on tie-breakers. 907 in 2002 and 11-5 in 2008.

[Rain Man]

Yikes. Was 2008 the Casshole year?

Okay, now it all makes sense.

[Buehler445]

Jesus fuck. Right? You can say all but 2 from 02-16, but when you lay it out like that, it's just fucking insane.

Does Brady and/or Belichick face criminal charges for that raping of the division?

[gold_and_red]

Jesus ****. Right? You can say all but 2 from 02-16, but when you lay it out like that, it's just ****ing insane.

Does Brady and/or Belichick face criminal charges for that raping of the division?

To be fair they have been raping the entire AFC.

[Amnorix]

To be fair they have been raping the entire AFC.


A Broncos player apparently tweeted today that it just occurred to him that if the Broncos didn't beat the Pats last year, they probably would have three-peated.

And he may well be right. Pats gave the Donx much more of a game, in Denver, than Carolina ended up giving.

[gold_and_red]

A Broncos player apparently tweeted today that it just occurred to him that if the Broncos didn't beat the Pats last year, they probably would have three-peated.

And he may well be right. Pats gave the Donx much more of a game, in Denver, than Carolina ended up giving.

Best part about this Pats dynasty if how they always, always kick Steeler butt. Brady sends all those black and gold machos crying back to their moms. Bradshaw of all people calling Brady and Bill GOATs on the podium must have hurt Steeler nation.

I have already penciled in NE in the AFCCG game next year. Hope its the Chiefs taking them down.

[Hammock Parties]

If you roll back the passing rules you're just going to make it harder on every QB, including your own below-average shitbird.

It won't have the desired effect. In fact it might make your team even worse because the better QBs are still going to be better at adapting.

[CapsLockKey]

The problem isn't necessarily not having a top 5 QB, it's mediocre QBs tying up as much cap space for their respective teams as the elite guys do. It puts teams without an elite QB but with an elite sized contact at a huge disadvantage not being able to make up for it elsewhere on the roster. Then when you have someone like Brady who takes a contract below his market value it amplifies the disparity even more.

[carlos3652]

If P Manning was in the NFC I bet we would have had at least 8 Super Bowls of Manning vs Brady... in the last 15 years

[Tombstone RJ]

This thread is b/c Alex Smith is your QB. You are in limbo land...

[threebag]

The best part is all the bitching about the position when the success to failure percentages are just fucking way off.

[Reerun_KC]

The best part is all the bitching about the position when the success to failure percentages are just ****ing way off.

Especially in KC where we haven't had any post season success to speak of for 47 years.

[threebag]

Most of those teams needed more than just a QB but good pulling out of your ass

[Buehler445]

The problem isn't necessarily not having a top 5 QB, it's mediocre QBs tying up as much cap space for their respective teams as the elite guys do. It puts teams without an elite QB but with an elite sized contact at a huge disadvantage not being able to make up for it elsewhere on the roster. Then when you have someone like Brady who takes a contract below his market value it amplifies the disparity even more.

This man has a good point.

[DaneMcCloud]

This man has a good point.

Nah, that's silly. The cap has nothing to do with talent.

The problem is that all but very few college QB's play against NFL style defenses and even fewer play in a Pro Style offense.

The transition time can really vary and in most cases, transitioning from an Air Raid to a Pro Style takes years for most QB's, if they ever get it.

As I mentioned earlier, 213 QB's have been drafted since 2000 and only 10 QB's have won the Super Bowl since (a list that also includes players drafted in the 90's like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer).

I hope the Chiefs take a QB early this year but there is absolutely no reason to expect that player to lead the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, as he's far more likely to bust.

[kccrow]

I think giving the defense something would go a long way...


Change DPI to be exactly like NCAA, 15 yard from LOS or spot of the foul, whichever is closer to the LOS.
Eliminate the automatic first down on defensive holding.
If a player with possession of the football lands on another player that is in contact with the ground, then he is down by contact.
Make all runners retain possession of the football in a scoring act. If you cross the line but lose control of the football in the act of finishing the play, it's a fumble. If the ball goes out of bounds, then it is a touchback to the defense. Basically same shit as the new receiver possession rule that you must "complete the act of a catch." This would eliminate so many receivers stretching for the goal line and would probably add to player safety.


As for the QB position itself, I think all you can really do is make it harder for them. You're still going to have the better QB's in the league perform better than the shit. BUT, if you can take away some of that passing efficiency across the board and make running the football relevant again, then you're helping teams find balance. A team with a great running game and average QB can be just as good as a team with a great QB and an average running game if you force balance.

[notorious]

I think giving the defense something would go a long way...


Change DPI to be exactly like NCAA, 15 yard from LOS or spot of the foul, whichever is closer to the LOS.
Eliminate the automatic first down on defensive holding.
If a player with possession of the football lands on another player that is in contact with the ground, then he is down by contact.
Make all runners retain possession of the football in a scoring act. If you cross the line but lose control of the football in the act of finishing the play, it's a fumble. If the ball goes out of bounds, then it is a touchback to the defense. Basically same shit as the new receiver possession rule that you must "complete the act of a catch." This would eliminate so many receivers stretching for the goal line and would probably add to player safety.


As for the QB position itself, I think all you can really do is make it harder for them. You're still going to have the better QB's in the league perform better than the shit. BUT, if you can take away some of that passing efficiency across the board and make running the football relevant again, then you're helping teams find balance. A team with a great running game and average QB can be just as good as a team with a great QB and an average running game if you force balance.

This is key.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is key.

It's not, especially considering that UDFA's and late round picks perform every year.

The NFL has a become a "basketball league".

These guys are too athletic, too lean and too fast. Even acquiring a unique talent like Peterson or Zeke isn't a guarantee of anything.

Sure, running the ball is important but it's more about matchups than just saying "Run the ball!".

[Buehler445]

It's not, especially considering that UDFA's and late round picks perform every year.

The NFL has a become a "basketball league".

These guys are too athletic, too lean and too fast. Even acquiring a unique talent like Peterson or Zeke isn't a guarantee of anything.

Sure, running the ball is important but it's more about matchups than just saying "Run the ball!".

I think it can be if you let a little defense in and it can disrupt the timing routes. Look at Edleman through a large part of the game, the Falcons were able to disrupt his timing by a smidge and Brady was overthrowing him.

The other big thing, like I mentioned above, if you even up the timing issues on run vs pass, it can give a team with a non-elite QB a chance to make a 2 minute drive if they can run the ball. Still at a disadvantage to a good QB that can run AND pass in the 2 minute drill, but it won't put as much pressure on the QB if running the ball is an option.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think it can be if you let a little defense in and it can disrupt the timing routes. Look at Edleman through a large part of the game, the Falcons were able to disrupt his timing by a smidge and Brady was overthrowing him.

The other big thing, like I mentioned above, if you even up the timing issues on run vs pass, it can give a team with a non-elite QB a chance to make a 2 minute drive if they can run the ball. Still at a disadvantage to a good QB that can run AND pass in the 2 minute drill, but it won't put as much pressure on the QB if running the ball is an option.

The best arm talent is going MLB because of guarantees and concussions.

Meanwhile, 99.9% of college QB's haven't read defenses or played behind center or learned complicated offenses.

It's only going to get worse and changing PI and catch rules won't change much of anything.

[Buehler445]

The best arm talent is going MLB because of guarantees and concussions.

Meanwhile, 99.9% of college QB's haven't read defenses or played behind center or learned complicated offenses.

It's only going to get worse and changing PI and catch rules won't change much of anything.

I don't disagree there, but I think the timing thing actually would. It would allow teams that couldn't light shit up on a no huddle passing could still be in the mix with rushing.

[cdcox]

Require every team that hasn't won a home playoff game in 10 years to draft a QB in the first round At least one every three years.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't disagree there, but I think the timing thing actually would. It would allow teams that couldn't light shit up on a no huddle passing could still be in the mix with rushing.

The best QB's (i.e., HOFer's) will always figure away around the system.

The thing is, after Brady, Brees, Eli, Rodgers and (arguably) Rothliberger retire, who's left?

Ryan has a few years, Rivers maybe two.

Who carries the torch? Which teams have unbeatable QB's?

That issue will challenge the NFL and its corporate partners more than anything, ever before.

[DaneMcCloud]

Require every team that hasn't won a home playoff game in 10 years to draft a QB in the first round At least one every three years.

LMAO

Absurd

[cdcox]

LMAO

Absurd

I know. But this might be the only way the Chiefs draft a decent QB during my lifetime.

[Buehler445]

I know. But this might be the only way the Chiefs draft a decent QB during my lifetime.

I wouldn't count on it.

[DaneMcCloud]

I know. But this might be the only way the Chiefs draft a decent QB during my lifetime.

It's just happenstance.

Knowing that, I sleep well at night during the season.

[ChiefsCountry]

Since 1986, AFC Quarterbacks in the Super Bowl

7 - Brady
5 - Elway
4 - Kelly
4 - Manning
3 - Roethlisberger
1 - Esiason, Humphries, O'Donnell, Bledsoe, McNair, Dilfer, Gannon, Flacco

[TEX]

I think giving the defense something would go a long way...


Change DPI to be exactly like NCAA, 15 yard from LOS or spot of the foul, whichever is closer to the LOS.
Eliminate the automatic first down on defensive holding.
If a player with possession of the football lands on another player that is in contact with the ground, then he is down by contact.
Make all runners retain possession of the football in a scoring act. If you cross the line but lose control of the football in the act of finishing the play, it's a fumble. If the ball goes out of bounds, then it is a touchback to the defense. Basically same shit as the new receiver possession rule that you must "complete the act of a catch." This would eliminate so many receivers stretching for the goal line and would probably add to player safety.


As for the QB position itself, I think all you can really do is make it harder for them. You're still going to have the better QB's in the league perform better than the shit. BUT, if you can take away some of that passing efficiency across the board and make running the football relevant again, then you're helping teams find balance. A team with a great running game and average QB can be just as good as a team with a great QB and an average running game if you force balance.


Im all in!

[tx4chiefs]

Most of the NFL's troubles are Goddell's Politics over Football. I also agree that professional sports stars are WAY overpaid. There is no reason any player needs more than $5 million / year. I understand the elite athlete's that make it to the professional level and that they average only about 3 or 4 years, but I don't know anybody that couldn't live their whole life on $20 million.

[notorious]

Oh my.

[Chiefnj2]

I don't see a problem. There are a bunch of promising young QB's - Prescott, Mariotta, Winston, Carr and Wentz. If Indy ever decides it wants to protect Luck, his numbers and productivity will jump as well.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't see a problem. There are a bunch of promising young QB's - Prescott, Mariotta, Winston, Carr and Wentz. If Indy ever decides it wants to protect Luck, his numbers and productivity will jump as well.

Luck, Carr and Mariota are going to replace Manning, Brady and Roethlisberger in the AFC.

Winston, Prescott and Cousins will replace Rodgers, Brees and Manning in the NFC.

Chiefs left holding their dicks.

[BossChief]

The best arm talent is going MLB because of guarantees and concussions.

Meanwhile, 99.9% of college QB's haven't read defenses or played behind center or learned complicated offenses.

It's only going to get worse and changing PI and catch rules won't change much of anything.

Beat me to it.

With the way NFL contracts are structured and the significant risk of serious injury in the NFL, the best arm talents aren't even playing college football anymore, they are putting their efforts into baseball because of the limited risk of injury and fully guaranteed contracts.

It's gonna be interesting to see how the league deals with that problem, as I don't really see a "Winn all" solution.

You can't move the whole league towards guaranteed deals, because then you would have a lot of guys choosing to sit out with smaller injuries and that leads to a larger problem. You can't just guarantee QB contracts for obvious reasons.

The league needs to do something to get those talents to choose football over baseball (and in some cases basketball) otherwise they are going to have another huge dropoff once the old guard hangs em up.

Brady
Brees
Rivers
Manning
Rodgers
Rothlisberger
Romo

Those guys are all going to be retired before the next CBA is negotiated.

Here's my concern with the NFLs longevity:

The old guard QBs all retire.

The owners continue to push their selfishness to new levels by "spreading the league too thin" by trying to progressively open new divisions in other countries while a great deal of the leagues marquee players disappear.

The rules limiting padded practices continue to hurt NFL OLs across the board while increasing numbers of freak athletes that become elite pass rushers are attracted to the NFL due to increasing contract values for that group of players.

That will continue to create a divide and will widen as those marquee quarterbacks retire and new blood is brought in to replace them with very little grooming from the college game.

The quality of the on field product continues to erode.

The more that happens, the greater the likely hood of the value of the tv contracts increasing at record levels becomes an issue.

Here's my concern there...

At one point, the TV contracts won't go up and might even go down due to demand lowering because of the level of play on the field/tv screens.

The salary cap is based on profit and profit is largely based on those TV contracts.

If those TV contracts take a hit, so does the salary cap.

What happens when the cap plateaus at 220m and then goes down to 210 the following year? What if that becomes a trend.

Some of you are going to think this is silly, but I assure you this can be an issue that ends up shutting the doors on the NFL (as we know it) in the next 20 years if the league doesn't do something to attract those elite arm talents to their sport over baseball and basketball.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm very interested to see how the league deals with this issue.

[BossChief]

Most of the NFL's troubles are Goddell's Politics over Football. I also agree that professional sports stars are WAY overpaid. There is no reason any player needs more than $5 million / year. I understand the elite athlete's that make it to the professional level and that they average only about 3 or 4 years, but I don't know anybody that couldn't live their whole life on $20 million.

That's just dumb.

There are businessmen that make 100m per year.

If someone is the best in the world at something that has a demand, the market should dictate their cost.

If anything, NFL players are vastly underpaid, relative to other sports.

[PAChiefsGuy]

That's just dumb.

There are businessmen that make 100m per year.

If someone is the best in the world at something that has a demand, the market should dictate their cost.

If anything, NFL players are vastly underpaid, relative to other sports.

Agreed.

They are the best in the world at what they do in a highly competitive field (how many people would love to play football for a living?) so they are paid as such. I have no problem with the money they make. They earned it.

[BlackHelicopters]

Here is a radical idea. At the end of each season, all starting QBs or QBs that played the most downs for their team during the season are put in a redistribution draft. The league will pay all 32 QBs a flat fee of 12M. Lots will be drawn, and the teams will draft their QB from the pool of 32. Light me up.....

[Buehler445]

I don't necessarily think it needs to be elite ARM talent. It needs to be elite decision making talent with an adequate arm and good mechanics. But that is neither here nor there.

The offensive coordinators need to be able to work the talent that they get into production.

That's why I'd like to see some rules become more favorable to the running game so as to not put as much burden on the QB talent so as to allow it to hopefully have more options and be more effective.

[crazycoffey]

The only real problem with the NFL right now; opinionated professional experts and opinionated amateur experts outnumbering simply opinionated fans. Too many people, paid for it or not, have all the answers. And prejudge the new minority of fans who want to just enjoy the product.

Oh and how easy is it to become an unpaid opinionated expert here. On Chiefsplanet, the last few years it's been over run by "experts"

It's a fucking team game with too many questions to be answered by one or 5 players. Ever. And that's the truth of it. Put Brady on this years Browns team. If he's the GOAT, like so many Tom dick sucking opinionated asshats suggest, the browns would have at least won 6-10 games, right? Maybe a playoff win? I mean if you only need 1-5 QBs out of the 60ish pinnacle QBs in professional football.

Surely the "best" would make markedly different results for even the worst football team, right?

[KChiefs1]

Since 1986, AFC Quarterbacks in the Super Bowl

7 - Brady
5 - Elway
4 - Kelly
4 - Manning
3 - Roethlisberger



Alex Smith has a lot in common with this group...
1 - Esiason, Humphries, O'Donnell, Bledsoe, McNair, Dilfer, Gannon, Flacco






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Buehler445]

The only real problem with the NFL right now; opinionated professional experts and opinionated amateur experts outnumbering simply opinionated fans. Too many people, paid for it or not, have all the answers. And prejudge the new minority of fans who want to just enjoy the product.

Oh and how easy is it to become an unpaid opinionated expert here. On Chiefsplanet, the last few years it's been over run by "experts"

It's a fucking team game with too many questions to be answered by one or 5 players. Ever. And that's the truth of it. Put Brady on this years Browns team. If he's the GOAT, like so many Tom dick sucking opinionated asshats suggest, the browns would have at least won 6-10 games, right? Maybe a playoff win? I mean if you only need 1-5 QBs out of the 60ish pinnacle QBs in professional football.

Surely the "best" would make markedly different results for even the worst football team, right?

Sooooo....You don't think there is too much of a reliance on a QB? Or if there is, you don't think it is unhealthy for the league?

[Eleazar]

It's tough, because you have to fix football without increasing the risk of injury to the QB.

IMO, they need to make it legal to defend the WR again. Something to make defensive backs more effective that doesn't involve increasing the risk of injury to WR.

Allow contact up to 10 yards instead of immediately at the line of scrimmage? Do something to reduce the prevalence of defensive holding and PI calls?

I think the targeting penalties are a problem too. Throwing over the middle always carries the random chance of a 15 yard penalty for a normal hit. Maybe they need to do more around video review of whether the contact was really to the head or whether it was unintentional.

I'm not sure how you could safely incentive the run game more. Maybe they should allow running backs to be moving forward at the snap, or... something.

The game was a lot more entertaining 20 years ago when you could still defend WRs and running the ball could still win games.

[Valiant]

Multi tiered issue.

Qbs after their rookie contract make an insane amount money. Once you invest in a FA QB, you are basically stuck with him unless he goes down with injury. Most teams will not create a rift between backup and starter and let the winner decide.

Only team I can think of was Seattle that did it after trading for flynn. Most of the other successes were drafted or another one off like Brees.

You have to draft a qb, then find out if he has the skills to cope with nfl defenses and reading them and make throws. It has to be drafted as FA cost too much to play this strategy on.

Also do away with current helmets and pads, go similar to rugby. Injuries will go down after the first few weeks.

[Valiant]

That's just dumb.

There are businessmen that make 100m per year.

If someone is the best in the world at something that has a demand, the market should dictate their cost.

If anything, NFL players are vastly underpaid, relative to other sports.

This I also agree with. Nfl players need a bigger part of the pot. Owners make billions.

The players union should fight to lower the years it takes to get lifetime insurance paid for. I would say four years or if you are seriously injured in a game.

Also, they need to force the players to set up a deferment like a 401k for a part of thier salary and bonus. Shit imagine what it would be worth based off the nfl revenue increases they see.

The rest is on the player if they want to ignore responsible financial advice.

[kccrow]

It's tough, because you have to fix football without increasing the risk of injury to the QB.

IMO, they need to make it legal to defend the WR again. Something to make defensive backs more effective that doesn't involve increasing the risk of injury to WR.

Allow contact up to 10 yards instead of immediately at the line of scrimmage? Do something to reduce the prevalence of defensive holding and PI calls?

I think the targeting penalties are a problem too. Throwing over the middle always carries the random chance of a 15 yard penalty for a normal hit. Maybe they need to do more around video review of whether the contact was really to the head or whether it was unintentional.

I'm not sure how you could safely incentive the run game more. Maybe they should allow running backs to be moving forward at the snap, or... something.

The game was a lot more entertaining 20 years ago when you could still defend WRs and running the ball could still win games.

I disagree on targeting, and it isn't only defined by a hit to the head. Plus, targeting is a NCAA penalty. However, two penalties do exist in the NFL that effectively do the same thing as targeting in the NCAA: Spearing and Hit to a Defenseless Player. They are legitimate in actually protecting against concussions and spine injuries, so I have zero problem with it. If you can deliver a bone jarring hit to someones head or neck to break up a pass, you are close enough to use your arms to reach in a break up a pass. In today's game, with all we know about concussions and spinal injuries and long-term effects, this rule is more than justified.

If anything, the NFL needs to be more open to allowing the defensive player's right to make a play on the football in as much as the offensive player has that right. I have seen too many DPI called when a defender makes contact with a receiver in making a play on the football but there isn't an equal OPI when the receiver all but rapes the defender to keep him from making a play on the ball. This needs to be addressed with NFL officials.