LDT/Berry contract details released

[RunKC]

Duvernay-Tardif’s cap numbers are as follows: $2.7 million in 2017, $5.3 million in 2018, $8.2 million in 2019, $9 million in 2020 and $9.2 million in 2021. Duvernay-Tardif has a base salary of $7.9 million in 2022.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article136600898.html#storylink=cpy


LDT isn't getting paid top $$ until 2018, at that point he won't be a top 10 highest paid G.

Berry's is insane. Wow


Berry’s cap numbers are as follows: $13 million in 2018, $16.5 million in 2019, $13.5 million in 2020, $16 million in 2021 and $14 million in 2022. He has workout bonuses of $100,000 each year.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article136600898.html#storylink=cpy

[SAUTO]

What does berry get in 17?

[Mr. Laz]

LDT is backloaded but he still got a 10 million dollar signing bonus. If we cut him after one year then it's still a big hit. Doesn't look like a short term contract to me. We pretty much have to keep him through 2018.

2 yr/18 million dollar deal is still TOO FUCKING MUCH FOR A JAG RG


Berry's deal averages 14.6 per after 2017. :eek:


Dorsey got raped on both deals, no lube

[Mr. Laz]

What does berry get in 17?

The first-year cap number is $5 million. It includes a base salary of $900,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000.

[Chiefshrink]

LDT is backloaded but he still got a 10 million dollar signing bonus. If we cut him after one year then it's still a big hit. Doesn't look like a short term contract to me. We pretty much have to keep him through 2018.

2 yr/18 million dollar deal is still TOO ****ING MUCH FOR A JAG RG


Agreed. He better step his game up tremendously and hopefully the Chiefs draft that Cooper kid I saw Friday. Impressive.

[RunKC]

LDT is backloaded but he still got a 10 million dollar signing bonus. If we cut him after one year then it's still a big hit. Doesn't look like a short term contract to me. We pretty much have to keep him through 2018.

2 yr/18 million dollar deal is still TOO ****ING MUCH FOR A JAG RG


Berry's deal averages 14.6 per after 2017. :eek:


Dorsey got raped on both deals, no lube

Gauranteed $$ comes from Clark and doesn't affect our cap space at all, unless we cut him in the first few years of the contract (we won't).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Gauranteed $$ comes from Clark and doesn't affect our cap space at all, unless we cut him in the first few years of the contract (we won't).

:spock:

Guaranteed money is guaranteed to affect the cap. It's the nature of the term, "guaranteed."

[RunKC]

:spock:

Guaranteed money is guaranteed to affect the cap. It's the nature of the term, "guaranteed."

His 2017 cap hit is $2.7 million. That's what is going against our cap (less than 3%). His signing bonus has no effect on our cap space.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

His 2017 cap hit is $2.7 million. That's what is going against our cap (less than 3%). His signing bonus has no effect on our cap space.

Yes, it does. It's factored into his cap numbers, but if he is cut before the first five years of the deal, the remaining money accelerates against the cap. If signing bonuses didn't count against the cap, Paul Allen would just give his entire team signing bonuses while paying them the league minimum and assembling the greatest collection of talent in NFL history.

[Mr. Laz]

Gauranteed $$ comes from Clark and doesn't affect our cap space at all, unless we cut him in the first few years of the contract (we won't).
I said signing bonus, not guaranteed money.

He got 10 million upfront which is prorated against the cap for the length of the contract. It also hits all at once if you trade or cut him.

Both guaranteed money and signing bonus hit the cap if the players is cut or traded.

Look at the big money toward the end of that contract. We are boned if we cut him, we are boned if we don't cut him.

[ottawa_chiefs_fan]

If LDT is in $CDN it is a steal.

[Mr. Laz]

Agreed. He better step his game up tremendously and hopefully the Chiefs draft that Cooper kid I saw Friday. Impressive.
I understand keeping Berry but the contract is still crazy.

The LDT contract is inexcusable imo.

Is there a possibility that LDT becomes an HoF RG? Yes, i suppose so.

We are paying LDT stud RT money by the end of that contract.


BUT ... he hasn't earned or shown that yet and Dorsey just gave it to him. Why?

[LoneWolf]

I understand keeping Berry but the contract is still crazy.

The LDT contract is inexcusable imo.

Is there a possibility that LDT becomes an HoF RG? Yes, i suppose so.


BUT ... he hasn't earned or shown that yet and Dorsey just gave it to him. Why?

LDT isn't getting paid like a HOF guard. He's getting paid like an average starting guard until 2019.

[mcaj22]

Berry's 2019 cap hit basically screams they plan to clean house and have cap space to pay that salary holy moly

[Mr. Laz]

LDT isn't getting paid like a HOF guard. He's getting paid like an average starting guard until 2019.
1) i didn't really mean to imply that we are paying him a HOF contract. I just meant to say that LDT could become an elite player.

2) You are forgetting the 10 million signing bonus.

$2.7 million in 2017
$5.3 million in 2018
$8.2 million in 2019
$9 million in 2020
$9.2 million in 2021
$7.9 million in 2022

If we cut LDT after 2018, he basically got paid 18 million for 2 years.

9 million per puts him as the 3rd highest paid guard in the NFL, hardly average.

If we keep him longer the contract still average out to be around 9+ million per year and makes him an elite paid RG.

[TribalElder]

After seeing jamaal take a "team friendly" ish deal I can understand why Berry wanted his money.

This will make us play rookies at some other positions I'm guessing

[Rain Man]

It looks like Berry will have to tighten his belt and watch his spending in even-numbered years.

[Mr. Laz]

After seeing jamaal take a "team friendly" ish deal I can understand why Berry wanted his money.

This will make us play rookies at some other positions I'm guessing

Why? We turned around and paid Jamaal anyway a couple of years later.

[RunKC]

1) i didn't really mean to imply that we are paying him a HOF contract. I just meant to say that LDT could become an elite player.

2) You are forgetting the 10 million signing bonus.

$2.7 million in 2017
$5.3 million in 2018
$8.2 million in 2019
$9 million in 2020
$9.2 million in 2021
$7.9 million in 2022

If we cut LDT after 2018, he basically got paid 18 million for 2 years.

9 million per puts him as the 3rd highest paid guard in the NFL, hardly average.

If we keep him longer the contract still average out to be around 9+ million per year and makes him an elite paid RG.

You can be mad at management for giving him that much gauranteed $$ but if he's gone after 2018 like your example, he will have only cost our cap about $8 million total.

The cap hits aren't hurting the team like Berry's are.

[RealSNR]

I admit I'm a giant dumbass when it comes to the cap.

What happens if say, LDT were to retire after the 2018 season? Are we still paying out the ass for him?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Both deals can be terminated in 2019 at the earliest if necessary, hopefully they won't be.

I think everyone needs to chill on getting upset about the dollars. I can see why Dorsey wanted to get LDT done now because with a great FA guard market this year, their value is about to go way up anyway. Sign him now and you don't have to risk losing him to FA as next year he might have been one of the best entering FA.

We are still set up well for the future. This year, major FA splashes will not be necessary to build onto our team. We are set well in most positions and need to focus on hopefully adding future blue chippers in the draft and some depth late in FA. In 2018, our cap space stands at just over $12.5M right now and we will likely roll over another $5M next year. Add in the possible cuts of Alex Smith ($17M), Jah Reid ($3M), Tamba Hali ($7M), and Derrick Johnson ($8M)-- we could have over $50M in cap space by next offseason if they deem those cuts necessary.

[Mr. Laz]

You can be mad at management for giving him that much gauranteed $$ but if he's gone after 2018 like your example, he will have only cost our cap about $8 million total.
That's not how it works.

The $10 million signing bonus is paid at the time the player signs the contract.

$10 million signing bonus
$2.7 million in 2017
$5.3 million in 2018
---------------
$18 million paid as of the end of 2018

We also have to note that the contract is listed as having $20 million in guarantees. That means there is at least another $2 million that is going to be paid to him from somewhere if he's cut after 2018.

In this contract, LDT is making $9 million per year pretty much no matter when we cut him.

[Mr. Laz]

I admit I'm a giant dumbass when it comes to the cap.

What happens if say, LDT were to retire after the 2018 season? Are we still paying out the ass for him?
If we cut him after 2018 we still owe him another 2 million from somewhere.

His $10 million signing bonus accelerates and hits the cap for 6 million.

10 million signing bonus
5-year contract
= proration for 2 million per
after 2018, 3 yrs left on contract
6 million in cap hit

20 million guaranteed on contract, after 2018 we will have only paid him 18 million in signing bonus and base salary. That means 2 million will come from somewhere else, probably guaranteed bonuses of some kind.

[O.city]

It's a risk for sure. Theyre thinking that he's going to develop into a real top tier guard. If he does, with inflatiin, thus will be a really good deal.

If he doesnt, it wont.

[Dante84]

Meh, I still trust Dorsey.

Only huge whiff he's had is the Bowe contract. And that just bit us in the ass because Bowe decided to be a fat lazy ****. The talent was there. The head was not.

Other whiffs include the KeVarie Russell pick and Kevin Hogan. But that's acceptable, because not every mid-round pick is going to hit; still, Russell was a bad miss.

[RealSNR]

If we cut him after 2018 we still owe him another 2 million from somewhere.

His $10 million signing bonus accelerates and hits the cap for 6 million.

10 million signing bonus
5-year contract
= proration for 2 million per
after 2018, 3 yrs left on contract
6 million in cap hit

20 million guaranteed on contract, after 2018 we will have only paid him 18 million in signing bonus and base salary. That means 2 million will come from somewhere else, probably guaranteed bonuses of some kind.

But is cutting him the same thing as him retiring?

[TribalElder]

we will just have to go with a rookie qb to make up the cost on the roster LMAO

[DaFace]

But is cutting him the same thing as him retiring?

I don't THINK so. I'm pretty sure that, if a player retires early by his own choice, all of the guarantees are pulled off the table. I wouldn't think that the signing bonus would go away, though.

[Hoover]

If LDT is in $CDN it is a steal.

:clap:

[Hoover]

When we get our rookie 1st round QB and cut Alex our cap situtation will look awesome!

[Mr. Laz]

But is cutting him the same thing as him retiring?
Depends on whether the contract has some kind of retirement language in it.

The Chiefs would have to 'go after' the signing bonus money and get it paid back to them by LDT to change it.

Maybe the Chiefs put a "Doctor" clause in the contract. :shrug:

[Mr. Laz]

When we get our rookie 1st round QB and cut Alex our cap situtation will look awesome!
According to over-the-cap, cutting Smith would free up $9.7m in cap space but would also create $7,2m in dead money.

[Hoover]

Alex is our QB in 2017, rookie sits behind him.

We save 17M next offseason with only 3.6 in dead money.

[Mr. Laz]

Alex is our QB in 2017, rookie sits behind him.

We save 17M next offseason with only 3.6 in dead money.

yep, drafting a guy and letting him sit a year before making the change would be ideal in terms of contracts.

[TimBone]

It's a risk for sure. Theyre thinking that he's going to develop into a real top tier guard. If he does, with inflatiin, thus will be a really good deal.

If he doesnt, it wont.
This is basically the situation in a nutshell.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

So we can release berry in 2019 if he's not playing to expectations

[Red Dawg]

Berry hosed us. No safety is worth that contract.

[RunKC]

This pretty much says what we are all thinking: major changes will happen in the next 2 years.

Tamba
Howard
DJ
Alex
Colquitt

These guys will all be replaced in 1-2 years and tons of cap space will be created.

[Red Dawg]

When we get our rookie 1st round QB and cut Alex our cap situtation will look awesome!

When we get what? Since 83 we have been waiting for them to do this. The sole reason KC has never sniffed a title in almost 50 years is making zero effort to home grow our own stud at QB. I doubt Dorsey is really crazy about any of them this year and rightfully so as none of the media really like any of them. 2018 we may actually take a shot and get one in the first round. Alex most likely won't be retained and the draft class is better but it really feels
Like a long shot this year.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Players rarely retire under contract for the same reason that coaches almost never truly quit: to do so forfeits the remainder of your contract, and in some cases, exposes you to having some of your bonus money recouped.

If LDT retires, his contract is null. If he is cut, the entire remaining amount of his bonus money goes against the cap the next year, unless he is designated as a post-June 1 release, in which case it can be distributed against the cap for two years.

[ThaVirus]

Berry's 2019 cap hit basically screams they plan to clean house and have cap space to pay that salary holy moly

His salary plus Houston's.

Thankfully we should be clear of any big money contracts at QB. Hill and Peters will still be under their rookie deals or just at the beginning of new extensions which can be made to be manageable.

[RunKC]

That's not how it works.

The $10 million signing bonus is paid at the time the player signs the contract.

$10 million signing bonus
$2.7 million in 2017
$5.3 million in 2018
---------------
$18 million paid as of the end of 2018

We also have to note that the contract is listed as having $20 million in guarantees. That means there is at least another $2 million that is going to be paid to him from somewhere if he's cut after 2018.

In this contract, LDT is making $9 million per year pretty much no matter when we cut him.

Here's the numbers from OTC.

https://overthecap.com/player/laurent-duvernaytardif/3139

<iframe src="https://overthecap.com/contract-embed/3139/" width="600" height="428" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

We can save $$ by cutting him in 2019 if we cut him as a June 1st cut. Otherwise we can't cut him until 2020.

[Hoover]

I'm not worried about LDT. You can miss on that size of contract and live to fight another day. Berry on the other hand we need to have him be a stud, otherwise that deal will absolutely kill us.

[Mr. Laz]

Here's the numbers from OTC.

We can save $$ by cutting him in 2019 if we cut him as a June 1st cut. Otherwise we can't cut him until 2020.
base salary in 2017 looks a little lower which is good

Contract is still way fucked up for his talent level

11 million in dead money for a june 1st cut in 2018 :doh!:


Let's all hope that he suddenly becomes a stud.

I still don't see where LDT's agent could possibly have the leverage to demand such a deal though.


I was thinking that the Chiefs would actually try to improve the RG position this year, not double down with their current one. :shrug:

[Mr. Laz]

I'm not worried about LDT. You can miss on that size of contract and live to fight another day.
Yea, maybe.

But why would Dorsey even agree to that contract in the 1st place?

Since when you do pay guards big money at all?

the guard position is a "system position" you pay the guys around them and then fill the OG position with leftovers. Maybe you move a mediocre OT over to guard if the OT isn't good enough or something.

Out of nowhere, we suddenly have one of the top paid OGs IN THE LEAGUE.

WTF?

[philfree]

base salary in 2017 looks a little lower which is good

Contract is still way ****ed up for his talent level

11 million in dead money for a june 1st cut in 2018 :doh!:


Let's all hope that he suddenly becomes a stud.

I still don't see where LDT's agent could possibly have the leverage to demand such a deal though.


I was thinking that the Chiefs would actually try to improve the RG position this year, not double down with their current one. :shrug:

Obviously they're aren't planning on cutting him one year after he signs a contract.

[BossChief]

Good offensive lines are built by cohesion between the different talents and Dorsey has done a phenomenal job of identifying talents that have really high upsides and Reid has done well choosing his top 5 linemen with the most upside and making sure Dorsey keeps them together for as long as possible. It's pretty cool that the OL should be together the next few year and continue to develop together.

By the time a young QB takes over for Alex, the line is going to be pretty good.

Give the kid a good, young OL, Kelce, Hill and a couple other weapons on offense and a solid defense that keeps teams out of the endzone....gonna be fun.

[Mr. Laz]

Obviously they're aren't planning on cutting him one year after he signs a contract.
Which is not really the point.

It's more about the kind of money you have to spend to create such a situation.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

By the time a young QB takes over for Alex, the line is going to be pretty good.

Give the kid a good, young OL, Kelce, Hill and a couple other weapons on offense and a solid defense that keeps teams out of the endzone....gonna be fun.

I was just thinking this when watching the combine today. It makes sense that they are locking the whole OL down for the foreseeable future because 1) That's good for cohesion in general and 2) They likely want the QBOTF to step into a great situation with said OL. I don't know if our OL will ever be great in the run game, but it has quite a ceiling in pass pro.

Just looking around the league at young QBs, it's the ones with the best OLs that are playing the best football (Carr, Mariota, Prescott). Meanwhile Luck is just trying like hell to stay on the field.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

It looks like Berry will have to tighten his belt and watch his spending in even-numbered years.

ROFL

[HemiEd]

When we get our rookie 1st round QB and cut Alex our cap situtation will look awesome!

ROFL

[kcchiefsus]

When we get our rookie 1st round QB and cut Alex our cap situtation will look awesome!

Never going to happen with Dorsey.

[Mr. Laz]

Never going to happen with Dorsey.
stupid post is still stupid


If you have a problem with our QB situation talk to Andy Reid.

[BossChief]

Dorsey and Reid are obviously interested in upgrading QB...but that option has to be a real upgrade for them to move on it.

Just look how they are structuring contracts...they are preparing for life after Alex.

[Red Dawg]

stupid post is still stupid


If you have a problem with our QB situation talk to Andy Reid.

Is Andy the GM? No. Does Andy have final say in players? No. It's Andys fault as well but Dorsey is the head player guy so he gets most of the blame.

[Mr. Laz]

Is Andy the GM? No. Does Andy have final say in players? No. It's Andys fault as well but Dorsey is the head player guy so he gets most of the blame.
Wrong, there's no way in fucking hell that Dorsey is deciding the QB position for our offensive guru/QB whisperer head coach.

btw Dorsey and Reid both report to Hunt, Dorsey isn't the boss.

[ct]

LDT is backloaded but he still got a 10 million dollar signing bonus. If we cut him after one year then it's still a big hit. Doesn't look like a short term contract to me. We pretty much have to keep him through 2018.

2 yr/18 million dollar deal is still TOO ****ING MUCH FOR A JAG RG


Berry's deal averages 14.6 per after 2017. :eek:


Dorsey got raped on both deals, no lube

1st two years aren't bad for LDT really. Next year is a $7.3M cap charge but the actual salary isn't terrible. Year 3 it gets big, so if he is still just a developing guy, then it's time to bail or restructure. If you bail, $6M of the bonus accelerates, but looking at the $10M+ cap charge for year 3, technically, they save cap space. big time technicality, but that's how they spin it when they need to save face. and if he hasn't developed into a top OG like they obviously expect he will, they'll definitely be looking for a way to save face.

EDIT: posted before i saw the OTC numbers. i was taking the yearly numbers in the OP as base salaries, PLUS the prorated bonus$. it's actually less of a bonehead contract then i thought, and i didn't think it was terrible to begin with. however, if he doesnt develop these next 2 years, he's gone, and will cost us some dead $ even if it's a cap savings on paper.

[ct]

Dorsey and Reid are obviously interested in upgrading QB...but that option has to be a real upgrade for them to move on it.

Just look how they are structuring contracts...they are preparing for life after Alex.

this plan would certainly make sense, or at least make sense of the huge numbers we are paying several other guys not playing QB

fit a rookie contract QB in with some of these contracts, and everything aligns cap wise. otherwise, ooof, shit is gonna get tight.

[WhawhaWhat]

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