Chiefs Chiefs sign Bennie Logan [Archive]

Dante84

03-13-2017, 01:24 PM

Logan spent the past four years with the Eagles, becoming a starter midway through his first season and formed a strong front alongside Fletcher Cox. But Logan is not considered a strong pass-rusher with 5.5 career sacks, one reason Philadelphia allowed him to hit the market. The Eagles, and other teams, do not want to overpay for who they consider a two-down player. And that's one reason some reports suggest Logan might be seeking a one-year deal, not being able to find what he wants on the open market.
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30510/redskins-could-boost-run-defense-by-adding-bennie-logan

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 01:24 PM

Like him coming out in the draft.

Hasn't really done much, though. Ideally he's little more than a depth signing. He could be a solid rotational player but he's not 'the answer' to any question worth asking.

The Franchise

03-13-2017, 01:25 PM

There's your NT.

Dante84

03-13-2017, 01:25 PM

Logan is the Eagles' best run-stopper and his play has a significant impact on the performance of two-time Pro Bowler Fletcher Cox. Last season, Logan finished with 24 tackles and 2.5 sacks in 12 games.http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/03/eagles_howie_roseman_hopeful_to_keep_bennie_logan.html

Chris Jones / Jaye Howard / Allen Bailey rape fest

BlackHelicopters

03-13-2017, 01:25 PM

Print 'em.

nychief

03-13-2017, 01:26 PM

Very Dorsey signing.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 01:27 PM

He will definitely help our run D though. Good move.

Urc Burry

03-13-2017, 01:29 PM

Now get Hodges signed and call FA a win

The Franchise

03-13-2017, 01:30 PM

Dante84

03-13-2017, 01:31 PM

He's a run stuffer. We got gashed on the ground this year.

This makes a ton of sense.

Dante84

03-13-2017, 01:32 PM

Also, his back isn't always fucked up. So while a slight downgrade in terms of upside compared to Poe, the risk for injury is significantly reduced.

Oh, and we aren't breaking the bank.

BradBigglestein

03-13-2017, 01:33 PM

Tremendous signing by the Chiefs. He isn't a big name, but he is a very good player. He is stout vs the run and gets the occasion push in the passing game. He is technically sound and was a cornerstone of our defensive line. Many players on the line said he was the "glue guy" who made it all work.

He will be a very solid addition to the Chiefs. He's a really really good guy to boot. Class act.

We'll miss him in Philly!

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 01:35 PM

Chiefs signed DT Bennie Logan, formerly of the Eagles, to a one-year contract.

Logan's addition means free agent Dontari Poe is likely to walk. Logan can slide right in at nose tackle. He's a downgrade, but not a particularly steep one. The move could end up being a wash for Kansas City, one that saves money.

It's funny - the more you read, the more you realize that Poe's reputation in league circles has CRATERED the last two years. I read something a couple of weeks ago regarding his film and there was a scout that said he was among the worst interior defensive lineman he saw on tape last year.

I think as fans we have a bit of a blind spot to him because we remember when he was great and the shit he does on offense is fun. But the more I read, the more you have to conclude that he was a fairly substantial part of the problem last year. Dude's back injury really wrecked him.

His multi-city tour seems to suggest same. He's clearly not getting the offers he wants and he's going to keep bouncing around and trying to drum up interest. It wouldn't surprise me to see him end up somewhere on a 1-year deal, have that back flare up on him and slowly fade away.

If he could get something like 4/$32 with at least half of that guaranteed, he may be wise to jump on it. It's looking like his decline was pretty fierce.

RunKC

03-13-2017, 01:35 PM

He's a solid run stuffer which we badly need and this draft is weak in that regard.

We play nickel like 60% of the time so I don't imagine we'll need him to play too many snaps.

ChiliConCarnage

03-13-2017, 01:35 PM

Sounds like he'll be a good fit for our needs

Mr. Laz

03-13-2017, 01:37 PM

Bennie Thompson?

The Franchise

03-13-2017, 01:37 PM

It's funny - the more you read, the more you realize that Poe's reputation in league circles has CRATERED the last two years. I read something a couple of weeks ago regarding his film and there was a scout that said he was among the worst interior defensive lineman he saw on tape last year.

I think as fans we have a bit of a blind spot to him because we remember when he was great and the shit he does on offense is fun. But the more I read, the more you have to conclude that he was a fairly substantial part of the problem last year. Dude's back injury really wrecked him.

His multi-city tour seems to suggest same. He's clearly not getting the offers he wants and he's going to keep bouncing around and trying to drum up interest. It wouldn't surprise me to see him end up somewhere on a 1-year deal, have that back flare up on him and slowly fade away.

If he could get something like 4/$32 with at least half of that guaranteed, he may be wise to jump on it. It's looking like his decline was pretty fierce.

He'll end up signing with Atlanta. Pioli will talk Dmitrioff into it.

thabear04

03-13-2017, 01:37 PM

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/03/eagles_howie_roseman_hopeful_to_keep_bennie_logan.html

Chris Jones / Jaye Howard / Allen Bailey rape fest

Could Jones play NT?

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 01:43 PM

Camp fodder

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 01:43 PM

O.city

03-13-2017, 01:44 PM

A young devito type player?

And yeah, I think we all collectively overrated the fuck out of Poe.

The Franchise

03-13-2017, 01:45 PM

Same age as Poe, no back issues and less pass rush.

In58men

03-13-2017, 01:46 PM

Good fit.....way to go Dorsey.....great contract low risk high reward....Dorsey is a genius...

/TypicalCPbullshitaftermedicoresignings

nychief

03-13-2017, 01:46 PM

A young devito type player?

And yeah, I think we all collectively overrated the **** out of Poe.

I think we are overating 2013-14 poe... He was a monster. But as soon as his back gave out, he was a time bomb. Got 5 good years out of a 1st rnder.... I'll take it. Via con dios, Piggy.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 01:47 PM

I am expecting this to be an upgrade to Poe. The truth is, as DJLN eluded to, Poe is coasting on name value right now. This isn't like Sean Smith last year where the guy was good as he left. Poe hasn't been very good the past two years at all, a lot of it probably due to the back.

I hope to see Sutton use a steady rotation up front with Jones, Bailey, Logan, Howard and RNR. Don't overload those big guys. Keep them fresh all season and healthy.

Seems like Poe only had 1 good game that was the SNF @Denver then he hurt his back that game and didn't do shit the rest of the year. The excuse for him was he was always getting double teamed and none of us wanted to admit the truth,

Mr. Laz

03-13-2017, 01:47 PM

I am expecting this to be an upgrade to Poe. The truth is, as DJLN eluded to, Poe is coasting on name value right now. This isn't like Sean Smith last year where the guy was good as he left. Poe hasn't been very good the past two years at all, a lot of it probably due to the back.

I hope to see Sutton use a steady rotation up front with Jones, Bailey, Logan, Howard and RNR. Don't overload those big guys. Keep them fresh all season and healthy.
still waiting on Sutton to rotate

Sutton played the guy with a bad back about 75% of the plays iirc I think there were only 3 or 4 Dline that played more than Poe and they were all DE and ROLB type guys.

If Poe wasn't playing well then why did Sutton leave him out there constantly?

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 01:49 PM

Logan has 1 more sack than Poe the last 2 years

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 01:51 PM

still waiting on Sutton to rotate

Sutton played the guy with a bad back about 75% of the plays iirc I think there were only 3 or 4 Dline that played more than Poe and they were all DE and ROLB type guys.

If Poe wasn't playing well then why did Sutton leave him out there constantly?

There at the end last year we were playing guys like Reyes and Jenkins quite a bit. So, he was rotating, but will he keep it up when the starters are back?

We need to preserve Jones. He can be good for a long time if they don't play him a 1000 snaps a season.

TEX

03-13-2017, 01:51 PM

BUT, can he throw and catch???

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 01:51 PM

84th overall DL, 53rd against the run, 110th pass rush

Only played 181 run snaps.

JAG, but cheap hopefully.

I am expecting this to be an upgrade to Poe.

He is, but only because Poe was absolutely terrible last year.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 01:51 PM

I love this signing. Run defense is already improved.

From PFF:

9. Bennie Logan, NT
Logan is a true nose tackle, effectively limiting him to being a two-down player, which in today’s NFL has never been less valuable in terms of contract dollars. He has the ability though to make a major impact on those two downs if a team is willing to embrace the type of player he is. This past season he was a poor fit for Philadelphia’s new, aggressive, one-gap defensive front, but the year before he notched 45 defensive stops, fourth in the league among all interior defenders despite playing just 597 snaps in total. Only Damon Harrison had a better run-stop percentage than Logan’s 14.8 percent, a figure that would also have been second to Harrison this season. Embrace the two-gapping, run-stuffing ability and you could transform your run defense for pennies on the dollar.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-sleeper-free-agents-who-could-bring-surprise-upside/

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 01:52 PM

84th overall DL, 53rd against the run, 110th pass rush

Only played 181 run snaps.

JAG, but cheap hopefully.

Remember when this board blew it's load over signing Vance Walker?

kccrow

03-13-2017, 01:53 PM

There's your NT.

Yup. He played really well in 14/15 too. Last year he kind of fell off in that 4-3.

Sandy Vagina

03-13-2017, 01:53 PM

nice read, staylor. Yes, a fan of this signing. Very good rotational depth, and could be a decent inside starter, if something goes wrong with Howard.

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 01:54 PM

There at the end last year we were playing guys like Reyes and Jenkins quite a bit. So, he was rotating, but will he keep it up when the starters are back?

That's because everyone Sutton rode into the ground dropped like flies due to injuries and we got crushed in the run game because we were playing turds on the line off the street.

Sutton is going to get mileage out of Chris Jones, 1000 snaps easy this year lol.

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 01:54 PM

Seems like Poe only had 1 good game that was the SNF @Denver then he hurt his back that game and didn't do shit the rest of the year. The excuse for him was he was always getting double teamed and none of us wanted to admit the truth,

It was the occasional flash that did it to us.

The play he made in the Houston playoff game where he just instantaneously changed direction, blew through the middle and caused a pick. There was the clip in the Bronco's game (IIRC) where he and Bailey literally held the entire 5-man line of the Broncos to a standstill when Sutton tried some crazy 9-velcro kind of package.

On rare occasions you'd see a flash of the animal he was in 2013 but ultimately, you saw a pretty ineffective player more often than that.

It sucks, but as has been alluded to, Sutton (and Pioli) deserve a little blame here as well. That guy got ridden so hard and even when Dorsey came in and found some depth here and there, Sutton continued to flog Poe. We were screaming for help for Poe for several years and in the end, the cavalry appeared to just arrive too late.

But hey, take Poe away from Sutton and perhaps he'll consider responsible line rotations going forward. That would be a welcome respite.

big nasty kcnut

03-13-2017, 01:56 PM

To the canoe!

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 01:56 PM

Remember when this board blew it's load over signing Vance Walker?

I sure fucked that right up.

I thought Walker would be a damn nice rotational player for us and we just never found a use for him at all.

I seem to remember him finding success after he left here, though. Walker's one of those guys that just never broke through; metrics darling but never seemed to make a name for himself beyond that.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 01:56 PM

D lineman fall off a cliff all the time

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 01:57 PM

Maybe that's the lesson, though.

Just ride interior DL like RBs and then discard them.

MTG#10

03-13-2017, 01:57 PM

Not the defensive piece I wanted from the Eagles, but he will do.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 01:58 PM

Here come the idiots like Clay and Billay to tell us this isn't a good signing when it clearly is to anybody with a fucking clue about the rest of the NFL.

:facepalm:

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:00 PM

STaylor has gems like Houston would be ready week 1 last year and Justin March Lillard is a good player. Go back to hiding faggot.

kccrow

03-13-2017, 02:00 PM

Here come the idiots like Clay and Billay to tell us this isn't a good signing when it clearly is to anybody with a fucking clue about the rest of the NFL.

:facepalm:

This is an outstanding signing for sure. He was a great NT when the Eagles were running a 3-4. Anyone with half a brain knows that this was a great value pickup. Don't sweat the idgits.

I was thinking about this kid the other day and expecting him to demand a bit more than the Chiefs could conjure up. Glad they could snag him.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 02:00 PM

I didn't see Clay say it was a bad signing

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 02:00 PM

Maybe that's the lesson, though.

Just ride interior DL like RBs and then discard them.

Has to be, the market has really bottomed out on lineman, 3-4 interior and run stuffers in this new era. They are almost like the fullback on offense at this point.

There was a time when big fat Tony Siragusa or a Pat Williams had tons of value. Today not so much.

We got Poes best years and replaced him with basically a comparable nobody for pennies on the dollar. You could probably argue that Logan and a Chris Jones offseason/improvement into a starters role is an UPGRADE for the Chiefs rather than a net loss.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 02:01 PM

STaylor has gems like Houston would be ready week 1 last year and Justin March Lillard is a good player. Go back to hiding pillowbitergot.

March is awful. Weird how many propped him up.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:01 PM

I sure ****ed that right up.

I thought Walker would be a damn nice rotational player for us and we just never found a use for him at all.

I seem to remember him finding success after he left here, though. Walker's one of those guys that just never broke through; metrics darling but never seemed to make a name for himself beyond that.

Oh well we win some we lose some. Atleast they aren't giving Poe a huge contract like Carl would have done.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:02 PM

Nobody is saying this is a bad signing it's a 1 year deal for a guy who's a rotatonal player.

Reerun_KC

03-13-2017, 02:02 PM

Eagles becoming the new 49ers for the Chiefs...

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:03 PM

STaylor has gems like Houston would be ready week 1 last year and Justin March Lillard is a good player. Go back to hiding pillowbitergot.

We're all wrong sometimes, but I'm nowhere near wrong as often as you are dipshit.

You just called this guy camp fodder. You're a fucking moron.

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 02:03 PM

March is awful. Weird how many propped him up.

Pretty hard to avoid that conclusion at this point.

"Poor man's Mauga" is really the best compliment I can give him at this point and that's definitely not a good thing. Hell, he's not even a healthier version of Mauga.

He doesn't cost much...so he's got that going for him. Beyond that, I can't see anything to get excited about with him. Can't stay on the field, isn't worth a shit when he's on it. Not a great combination.

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:03 PM

Here come the idiots like Clay and Billay to tell us this isn't a good signing when it clearly is to anybody with a fucking clue about the rest of the NFL.

:facepalm:

It's a decent signing. Nothing groundbreaking. Doubt he's a starter.

Reerun_KC

03-13-2017, 02:04 PM

I wonder if they have any backup scrub QB's we could possible bring in for a look to see if they have any gas in the tank that we might be sold on?

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:05 PM

It's a decent signing. Nothing groundbreaking. Doubt he's a starter.

He's been a starter his entire career. And if he plays like he did in 2015, he will be a damn good starting NT.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 02:06 PM

Seems to be a better fit in the 3 4...good for us

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:07 PM

We're all wrong sometimes, but I'm nowhere near wrong as often as you are dipshit.

You just called this guy camp fodder. You're a ****ing moron.

Trying trying too hard to be Dane. Thankfully this go around will be short lived for you with the new moderation. You aren't just wrong you are a petulant child when someone disagrees with you. You were obnoxious whenever someone called out March and he ended up being so bad you literally went into hiding from this board.

RunKC

03-13-2017, 02:08 PM

STaylor has gems like Houston would be ready week 1 last year and Justin March Lillard is a good player. Go back to hiding pillowbitergot.

I remember CP claiming Dee Ford, Travis Kelce and Eric Fisher as failures early in their careers too.

kccrow

03-13-2017, 02:08 PM

Nobody is saying this is a bad signing it's a 1 year deal for a guy who's a rotatonal player.

He was more productive than Poe as the Eagles' starting NT the 2 years prior to 2016 in their 3-4. He was still the starter, but the Eagles rotated Beau Allen in much more frequently last year when they switched back to a 4-3. I dunno whatever you are going on about.

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 02:09 PM

I'm not sure he will start but 1000 d-line snaps just walked out the door with Poe and the way Sutton rode him, so there will be plenty of snaps to go around for a 4..hell hopefully 5 man rotation.

ptlyon

03-13-2017, 02:09 PM

Shots fired

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:10 PM

He's been a starter his entire career. And if he plays like he did in 2015, he will be a damn good starting NT.

The 84th best interior DL in football.

Certainly sounds like he will take Jaye Howard's job any day now.

I would be shocked if the Chiefs 2017 opening day lineup is not Bailey-Howard-Jones.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:11 PM

I remember CP claiming Dee Ford, Travis Kelce and Eric Fisher as failures early in their careers too.

Eric Fisher is OK and there's a lot of questions about Ford. I recall people hating the Kelce pick at the time of the draft but don't recall anyone claiming he was a bust?

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:11 PM

I remember CP claiming Dee Ford, Travis Kelce and Eric Fisher as failures early in their careers too.

Funny how people like billay only remember the times I was wrong though.

So, I went into hiding about March, but yet I was right about Chris Jones (big time), Tyreek Hill, Dee Ford, and others. That makes a lot of sense Billay.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:13 PM

The 84th best interior DL in football.

Certainly sounds like he will take Jaye Howard's job any day now.

I would be shocked if the Chiefs 2017 opening day lineup is not Bailey-Howard-Jones.

Only Harrison was a better run stuffer in 2015 according to your bible PFF. The change to a 4-3 in 2016 really fucked him in a contract year.

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:17 PM

Bennie Logan was such a great NT the Eagles were 32nd in run defense.

Slow your roll, homer.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:17 PM

Funny how people like billay only remember the times I was wrong though.

So, I went into hiding about March, but yet I was right about Chris Jones (big time), Tyreek Hill, Dee Ford, and others. That makes a lot of sense Billay.

You did go into hiding.

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 02:20 PM

The scheme change in Philly hurt like half their front 7. Barwin, Kendricks, Logan, Curry, etc.

Guys that benefited and were beasts were Cox (clearly can play any scheme), Hicks and Bradham.

Doesn't mean those dudes who couldn't play in the 4-3 are bad players, they are just scheme dependent, they still have value and thankfully there are 32 teams in the NFL and no scheme is truly the same. Just have to find a new fit. Logan probably signed here because our scheme and fits his skills, and opportunity to rebuild his value in it.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:21 PM

You did go into hiding.

From fucking who? And for what? Because I was wrong about Justin fucking March?

LMAO

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:28 PM

You peaced out after Alex showed his true colors against the Steelers, and you realized this team was a cuck-in-waiting.

Bold strategy, cotton, let's see if it pays off.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:30 PM

You peaced out after Alex showed his true colors against the Steelers, and you realized this team was a cuck-in-waiting.

Bold strategy, cotton, let's see if it pays off.

If that were the case, why would I be back knowing Alex is still our fucking QB?

You guys have some really flawed logic here.

Titty Meat

03-13-2017, 02:31 PM

You peaced out after Alex showed his true colors against the Steelers, and you realized this team was a cuck-in-waiting.

Bold strategy, cotton, let's see if it pays off.

ROFL your mauling of Dane and his son in '16 was impressive.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 02:33 PM

ROFL your mauling of Dane and his son in '16 was impressive.

Speaking of fucking cucks...

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:35 PM

If that were the case, why would I be back knowing Alex is still our fucking QB?

You guys have some really flawed logic here.

You're back to pimp rotational JAGs like Bennie Logan.

The siren call of another Chiefs season is too much for you to resist.

TomBarndtsTwin

03-13-2017, 02:36 PM

I see were attempting to de-rail another thread here and turn it into more anti-Alex bullshit.

Yea.

This board definitely needs more of this . . . .

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 02:36 PM

Sorry, I'm trolling. Hard.

I'll stop now.

ModSocks

03-13-2017, 02:43 PM

Im not surprised by the Poe developments.

I had a very strong feeling that this would be Aubrayo Franklin part II.

Poe is a $5-6 million a year player.

Coochie liquor

03-13-2017, 02:43 PM

Can he throw a td in the end zone?

Hoover

03-13-2017, 02:48 PM

http://prod.static.eagles.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/PHI/photos/features/Logan-sweater.jpg

Bennie will be the best Defensive Lineman we have ever had from LSU.

Hoover

03-13-2017, 02:51 PM

Jeff Kerr @JeffKerr247
Eagles allowed just 90.7 rush yards in 12 full games Bennie Logan played in 2016. 141.0 in games he failed to finish/sat out with injury.
11:06 AM - 30 Jan 2017

staylor26

03-13-2017, 03:00 PM

Jeff Kerr @JeffKerr247
Eagles allowed just 90.7 rush yards in 12 full games Bennie Logan played in 2016. 141.0 in games he failed to finish/sat out with injury.
11:06 AM - 30 Jan 2017

See what happens when you cherry pick stats Clay?

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 03:03 PM

See what happens when you cherry pick stats Clay?

So now we're back to looking at him as a 4-3 DT?

He played 14 run snaps per game last year.

Rotational player if this is the angle you're taking.

Otherwise, you have to admit signing the starting NT from 2015's worst run defense isn't a positive.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 03:04 PM

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 03:05 PM

Anything to get those turds Reyes and Roaches Nachos off the field

Hammock Parties

03-13-2017, 03:06 PM

Anything to get those turds Reyes and Roaches Nachos off the field

This is where the upgrade lies in my mind. Especially Roches, who got pushed around in the run game.

O.city

03-13-2017, 03:09 PM

Not much difference in 34 and 43 these days anyway. Teams are in different front about 75 percent of the time.

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 03:14 PM

This is where the upgrade lies in my mind. Especially Roches, who got pushed around in the run game.

He's actually a pretty nice complementary player for Nacho.

Because yeah, Nunez-Roches struggled like hell to anchor in the run game. Honestly, I just don't know that he has the 'want to' to be a plus run player. I can't say that I blame him, it's thankless as fuck and he gets quite a bit of love for his splash plays in the passing game.

rtmike

03-13-2017, 03:14 PM

As long as he's taking up double teams for most of any given play, great signing.

RunKC

03-13-2017, 03:14 PM

9. Bennie Logan, NT
Logan is a true nose tackle, effectively limiting him to being a two-down player, which in today’s NFL has never been less valuable in terms of contract dollars. He has the ability though to make a major impact on those two downs if a team is willing to embrace the type of player he is. This past season he was a poor fit for Philadelphia’s new, aggressive, one-gap defensive front, but the year before he notched 45 defensive stops, fourth in the league among all interior defenders despite playing just 597 snaps in total. Only Damon Harrison had a better run-stop percentage than Logan’s 14.8 percent, a figure that would also have been second to Harrison this season. Embrace the two-gapping, run-stuffing ability and you could transform your run defense for pennies on the dollar.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-sleeper-free-agents-who-could-bring-surprise-upside/

Better run stuffer than anyone on the roster. He's got a lot of value here.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 03:16 PM

Not much difference in 34 and 43 these days anyway. Teams are in different front about 75 percent of the time.

There is in the context of the conversation we're having. We're talking about scheme fit for a 2 down NT that clearly had more success in the 3-4.

Easy 6

03-13-2017, 03:18 PM

Its apparent that as a run stuffer, he certainly rises above the "jag" word being thrown around by some

Theres no good reason to poo-poo this signing, he very much fills a desperate need

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 03:21 PM

There has been numerous players who had really poor PFF grades that came and played in this defensive regime and played really good football.

They've earned my trust on these types of deals, plain and simple. I think Logan, starter or not, is a nice addition in that DL room and presumably helps our biggest defensive weakness last year.

ModSocks

03-13-2017, 03:27 PM

He's going to be a rotational depth guy with the potential for more. If he pans out and returns to form, great. If he doesn't, then we know the scheme wasn't the issue and he'll be released/not-resigned.

Low risk, high upside signing.

Lets not read into it anymore than what it really is. His contract pretty much dictates what he is.

scho63

03-13-2017, 03:40 PM

Bennie and the Chiefs.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y-lOIKP5l3w/hqdefault.jpg

SAUTO

03-13-2017, 04:18 PM

Sorry, I'm trolling. Hard.

I'll stop now.

At least you realize it now and stop before we have to tell you, thanks. Next time try to not start

JohnnyHammersticks

03-13-2017, 04:44 PM

Cheaper than Poe was. Better than Poe is (now). Sign me up.

Did you see our run defense last year?

I didn't either.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 04:53 PM

Some 2015 highlights:

https://youtu.be/4UpKJUS1asg

TigeRRUppeRRcut

03-13-2017, 04:55 PM

You peaced out after Alex showed his true colors against the Steelers, and you realized this team was a cuck-in-waiting.

Bold strategy, cotton, let's see if it pays off.

If that were the case, why would I be back knowing Alex is still our ****ing QB?

You guys have some really flawed logic here.

Somebody throw that damn troll a free taco bell coupon so he shuts the hell up

RunKC

03-13-2017, 06:02 PM

Cox with Logan 6.5 sacks. Cox 3 games without Logan 0 sacks.

Run defense W/Logan: 92 ypg
Run defense w/o Logan: 141 ypg

woah

staylor26

03-13-2017, 06:04 PM

Cox with Logan 6.5 sacks. Cox 3 games without Logan 0 sacks.

Run defense W/Logan: 92 ypg
Run defense w/o Logan: 141 ypg

woah

JAG

Chief Northman

03-13-2017, 06:05 PM

JAG

Heh.

O.city

03-13-2017, 06:10 PM

There is in the context of the conversation we're having. We're talking about scheme fit for a 2 down NT that clearly had more success in the 3-4.

Not necessarily. I mean, the chiefs were in a traditional 34 set with a 0 tech this year, what, like 5 percent of the time?

Maybe it was because of personel and Logan helps that though

Chief Northman

03-13-2017, 06:34 PM

1 year, $8 million for Logan per ESPN

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18900178/bennie-logan-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-one-year-deal

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 06:38 PM

1 year, $8 million for Logan per ESPN

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18900178/bennie-logan-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-one-year-deal

Uhhh? That has to be an up to $8M. Wouldn't it be an $8M cap hit then?

We can't afford that right now.

Chief Northman

03-13-2017, 06:41 PM

Uhhh? That has to be an up to $8M. Wouldn't it be an $8M cap hit then?

We can't afford that right now.

Don't shoot the messenger. Details unclear at this point. ESPN report is all I've seen thus far.

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 06:44 PM

Don't shoot the messenger. Details unclear at this point. ESPN report is all I've seen thus far.

Oh no nothing personal. Just very confused.

This means more moves have to be made. Restructures and/or cuts soon.

Chief Northman

03-13-2017, 06:47 PM

Oh no nothing personal. Just very confused.

This means more moves have to be made. Restructures and/or cuts soon.

Oh I took nothing personal - that number is puzzling. I am sure the answers will manifest shortly.

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 06:49 PM

Oh I took nothing personal - that number is puzzling. I am sure the answers will manifest shortly.

I would guess it's half incentives but :shrug:

MotherfuckerJones

03-13-2017, 06:58 PM

Under the radar signing. We'll see how it works out. Still wishing for Hightower although we won't.

RunKC

03-13-2017, 07:04 PM

Watching Seth Keysor's breakdown and Logan is doing a far better job against the Steelers once than Poe did either time we played them.

I think being a good NT comes from pad level and lower power. Logan is 6'2" and just gets under OL and bull rushes them into the QB like Justin Houston.

Man it's gonna be fun seeing this front 7.

Hog's Gone Fishin

03-13-2017, 07:14 PM

I would guess it's half incentives but :shrug:

what kind of incentives do you give a friggin NT.

You draw 67 double teams and you get 1 mil ?

Red Dawg

03-13-2017, 07:17 PM

Gates approves of this signing.

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 07:26 PM

what kind of incentives do you give a friggin NT.

You draw 67 double teams and you get 1 mil ?

You can give incentives for starts, accolades, stats, all kinds of sh*t.

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 07:32 PM

Holy fuck.

$8 million? That better be BS.

Because if not, this team is showing a startling tendency towards paying market prices for the easiest positions on the field to fill in the draft.

Guard, box safety and 0 tech. Those are not high-skilled, high degree of difficulty positions. Those are positions you fill in the draft and surround with premier talent at higher priority positions to ensure they don't cripple you.

The positional value of where they've chosen to spend money this off-season is incredibly puzzling.

Tribal Warfare

03-13-2017, 07:35 PM

Gates approves of this signing.

Arthur Bryant is busting a move out of jubilation

pugsnotdrugs19

03-13-2017, 07:38 PM

Holy ****.

$8 million? That better be BS.

Because if not, this team is showing a startling tendency towards paying market prices for the easiest positions on the field to fill in the draft.

Guard, box safety and 0 tech. Those are not high-skilled, high degree of difficulty positions. Those are positions you fill in the draft and surround with premier talent at higher priority positions to ensure they don't cripple you.

The positional value of where they've chosen to spend money this off-season is incredibly puzzling.

Unfortunately...

What all do you consider to be the premiere positions? I think it's scheme dependent, but in KC's case.

I would say obviously QB, edge rusher, and CB seem to be the positions that every team needs to be good at in terms of talent.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 07:41 PM

Ever body is getting big money. It's all relative.

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 07:43 PM

8 million is more than Bailey, Jones or Howard will make this season lol

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 07:44 PM

Bet it's incentive loaded

TimBone

03-13-2017, 08:10 PM

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 08:11 PM

Good ones are. We just play soool much of that lameass 2-3-6 that teams exploit it and gash us with the run.

staylor26

03-13-2017, 08:13 PM

Bennie Logan is a better run stuffer than Poe. We would all probably be okay with brining Poe back on this deal. It's a one year deal. Who gives a shit?

Red Dawg

03-13-2017, 08:18 PM

Direckshun

03-13-2017, 08:19 PM

I thought auality zero techs in the 3-4 were super important and tough to find? I thought that's why Poe was so important when he was playing well?

All three positions in the 3-4 are important and critical. Especially with all the dime we play.

TimBone

03-13-2017, 08:20 PM

Players take pay cuts to play for teams that may actually get them a ring. We don't have a QB that media and players believe can do that. Why do you think the Donkeys are now having FA trouble and the Pats aren't. One of them lost their HOF QB.
Tuck, my man. Do you have to find a way to bitch about Smith in every thread?

TimBone

03-13-2017, 08:22 PM

All three positions in the 3-4 are important and critical. Especially with all the dime we play.
Makes sense. It was just odd to hear DJ down play the position.

Bootlegged

03-13-2017, 08:29 PM

Realities of new salary cap.

Low end paid like mid-tier.

Mid-tier paid like superstar.

Superstar paid like HOF.

Pasta Little Brioni

03-13-2017, 08:29 PM

Tuck, my man. Do you have to find a way to bitch about Smith in every thread?

He did take a nice shot at Horsey though too...

DJ's left nut

03-13-2017, 08:46 PM

I thought quality zero techs in the 3-4 were super important and tough to find? I thought that's why Poe was so important when he was playing well?

Impact, 3-down zeros are exceptionally valuable and hard to find.

Big bodied run-stuffers that will play maybe 50% of our defensive snaps? Not so much.

We aren't looking at using Logan as a gap-splitting presence. He's going to be told to just stand there and occupy space. No, that's not tough to find.

It's like peak DJ vs. Joe Mays. DJ makes is position valuable because how well he's able to play it. But if you don't have an elite guy there, it doesn't make sense to spend a bunch of money on a limited player at a less critical position.

O.city

03-13-2017, 08:48 PM

IIRC, we didn't use a 0 tech very often this year. They were in that goofy 2 DL, 15 DB stuff a lot.

Direckshun

03-13-2017, 09:20 PM

NJChiefsFan

03-13-2017, 10:02 PM

Bennie Logan is a better run stuffer than Poe. We would all probably be okay with brining Poe back on this deal. It's a one year deal. Who gives a shit?

Which poe are we talking about? 8 million is a lot for a guy when we are in a tight position. I like the signing but that price is a bit steep. The "cap is a myth" comments are in themselves becoming a myth.

This isn't directed at you but for a team wanting to stay flexible and not pay for positions we kind of are. I'm a big Dorsey guy but not over the moon about these contacts. I understand why he made them but not sure they will hold value. Berry was a tough one though. Intangibles can be overblown but his are legit. Especially with she maybe not being around.

Of course we aren't even sure about the actual numbers yet on this one. I guess Dorsey believes it won't constrain us against the cap this year.

BossChief

03-13-2017, 10:10 PM

I'm gonna puke if they give Alex Smith an extension.

There's gotta be something to this...KC doesn't have the $ to make this deal.

The kid is a perfect fit for us and will definetly help the defense in its weakest part...but 8m for 1 year?

Where's that money coming from?

Sassy Squatch

03-13-2017, 10:12 PM

I'm gonna puke if they give Alex Smith an extension.
I'm getting to the point where I hope they give him a 5+ year extension just to see the shit lords of this forum squeal in anger. It would be amazing.

mcaj22

03-13-2017, 10:13 PM

I'm gonna puke if they give Alex Smith an extension.

I am going to be so mad if they add on another 2 years just to move some money around for the present

TigeRRUppeRRcut

03-13-2017, 10:23 PM

I am going to be so mad if they add on another 2 years just to move some money around for the present

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6f/93/f7/6f93f7fd46e0202951497bc9cbced75f.jpg
32 years young!

Black Bob

03-13-2017, 10:25 PM

Good signing. Still hope we sign Poe.

T-post Tom

03-13-2017, 10:29 PM

Good signing. Add some speed/youth to the LB corp and secondary via the draft and the defense is looking pretty good.

TimBone

03-13-2017, 10:38 PM

Good signing. Still hope we sign Poe.
Chiefs gotta be flat broke now. Can't afford nothing else.

RealSNR

03-13-2017, 10:39 PM

Dorsey used to make a killing on deals. His Jamaal Charles extension, Sean Smith deal, Hussain Abdullah 2-year contract + extension, Tyvon Branch's piddle shit deal, Mike DeVito had a pretty decent contract for us... we're probably not paying Travis Kelce as much as we could for being a top 3 TE in the NFL. Those are all awesome deals. But not we've put out some extensions and offers that really aren't what we should be getting.

It's kind of jaw-dropping how Dorsey has gotten kinda fleeced recently.

TimBone

03-13-2017, 10:39 PM

32 years young!

Gross, man.

Also, not surprised that you have topless photos of Alex Smith on your computer.

RealSNR

03-13-2017, 10:43 PM

Alex Smith is a fat fucking pig. He needs to lose some weight.

He probably downs a tube of cookie dough to make himself feel better every time he comes up short of expectations.

Miles

03-13-2017, 10:43 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if the 8M number has some decent portion as incentives.

BossChief

03-13-2017, 11:16 PM

http://overthecap.com/2017-contract-estimates-bennie-logan/

Interesting read.

Prior to last season, OTC predicted that Bennie Logan would get a 4 year, 27m deal this offseason.

The article shows a bunch of data showing what Bennie brings to the table.

This could be a pretty underrated signing

RippedmyFlesh

03-13-2017, 11:26 PM

Gross, man.

Also, not surprised that you have topless photos of Alex Smith on your computer.

:Lin: tell him to keep his gay porn in the pictures thread

staylor26

03-13-2017, 11:28 PM

The Bad Guy

03-13-2017, 11:37 PM

I don't think Dorsey has gotten fleeced at all. The Hali deal was terrible, but he signed Schwartz last year to an incredible deal. Many thought Jaye Howard was a great value signing. Locked up West/Ware for peanuts. Even Sorensen's deal is a good one.

TigeRRUppeRRcut

03-14-2017, 12:50 AM

Gross, man.

Also, not surprised that you have topless photos of Alex Smith on your computer.

Incognito mode on my Chrome, bro.

New World Order

03-14-2017, 02:09 AM

Does Alex have a restraining order against Tiger?

Nickhead

03-14-2017, 03:52 AM

Players take pay cuts to play for teams that may actually get them a ring. We don't have a QB that media and players believe can do that. Why do you think the Donkeys are now having FA trouble and the Pats aren't. One of them lost their HOF QB.

didn't brady refuse a certain raise to ensure he had good weapons around him? not talking about incentives if they win the super bowl, but flat out gave money back to spread elsewhere? :D

mcaj22

03-14-2017, 06:43 AM

didn't brady refuse a certain raise to ensure he had good weapons around him? not talking about incentives if they win the super bowl, but flat out gave money back to spread elsewhere? :D

they got Ealy, Dwayne Allen, Cooks and Gilmore for what the Jets are paying 1 Mo Wilkerson in salary this year

LoneWolf

03-14-2017, 06:49 AM

they got Ealy, Dwayne Allen, Cooks and Gilmore for what the Jets are paying 1 Mo Wilkerson in salary this year

Gilmore is the only one of those four that New England signed to a new contract so I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion about players taking less money to play with Brady.

mcaj22

03-14-2017, 06:54 AM

Gilmore is the only one of those four that New England signed to a new contract so I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion about players taking less money to play with Brady.

Vets take less money to chase a ring there but Brady gives them flexibility to go out and snag all these young players on rookie deals or decent market deals from a few years ago and fit them under the cap. If Brady was making the 25-30 million he should be, they arent getting all those guys.

TigeRRUppeRRcut

03-14-2017, 07:08 AM

In Dorsey we trust

Titty Meat

03-14-2017, 07:15 AM

Vets take less money to chase a ring there but Brady gives them flexibility to go out and snag all these young players on rookie deals or decent market deals from a few years ago and fit them under the cap. If Brady was making the 25-30 million he should be, they arent getting all those guys.

LOL is that Brian Daboll in your avy?

Quesadilla Joe

03-14-2017, 07:56 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs got tired of waiting for Poe to make a decision and made their team better with the signing of Logan for one year. Like it.</p>— Michael Lombardi (@mlombardiNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/status/841647903546400770">March 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

TimBone

03-14-2017, 08:37 AM

:Lin: tell him to keep his gay porn in the pictures thread
Good point.

Tiger, please keep your gay porn in the pictures forum. If need be, you can create your own Alex homo-erotica thread.

Please link thread to Sandy via pm, as well. Thank you.

Sandy Vagina

03-14-2017, 08:40 AM

Good point.

Tiger, please keep your gay porn in the pictures forum. If need be, you can create your own Alex homo-erotica thread.

Please link thread to Sandy via pm, as well. Thank you.

Quality moderation at work here, CP. Great job. :thumb:

TimBone

03-14-2017, 08:40 AM

Impact, 3-down zeros are exceptionally valuable and hard to find.

Big bodied run-stuffers that will play maybe 50% of our defensive snaps? Not so much.

We aren't looking at using Logan as a gap-splitting presence. He's going to be told to just stand there and occupy space. No, that's not tough to find.

It's like peak DJ vs. Joe Mays. DJ makes is position valuable because how well he's able to play it. But if you don't have an elite guy there, it doesn't make sense to spend a bunch of money on a limited player at a less critical position.
I guess that all makes sense. I just remember talk about how Baltimore (and particularly Ray Lewis) was so successful in the 3-4 because they were able to find those elite 0 techs that bring the whole picture together.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 08:42 AM

Bennie Logan is a better run stuffer than Poe. We would all probably be okay with brining Poe back on this deal. It's a one year deal. Who gives a shit?

With the rollover rules, even overpaying for a single year is a big deal.

Moreover, football is essentially the exact opposite of baseball with its hard cap and non-guaranteed money. In baseball, there's literally no such thing as a bad 1-year contract. It can't hurt you long-term (no cap) and with no spending floors, there's nothing that's going to drive leaguewide spending inexorably forward. So a long-term deal that's 100% guaranteed isn't going to necessarily be a bargain in a year or two and if it isn't, you're still stuck with it.

Whereas in football, a long-term deal serves so many purposes. It allows you to shift cap. It gives you the opportunity to keep a guy below market if he performs. If he doesn't, it's non-guaranteed money so you cut him loose. In baseball, you pay a larger AAV to get a guy on a shorter term deal. In football, the exact opposite should be the case. If all you're getting is a single year out of it, you damn sure shouldn't be paying the market AAV for that year. It's why guys that are on the tag and sign a deal inevitably sign for less in AAV than that tag year would've been (and why their first year cap figure always drops).

Giving Logan an $8 million AAV without any sort of ability to capitalize on it if he DOES rebound to 2015's level is all risk with little upside.

That's why I don't think there's a chance in hell that this deal is truly an $8 million contract. If they were going to throw $8 million of this year's cap at somebody, they could've secured a $12 million AAV caliber player on a 3-4 year deal with the ability to shift money down the line and get out of a lot of it (or keep him if he performs).

1/$8 million just doesn't make any sense. Not when Chris Baker's getting 3/$18. I don't buy it.

temper11

03-14-2017, 09:02 AM

Players take pay cuts to play for teams that may actually get them a ring. We don't have a QB that media and players believe can do that. Why do you think the Donkeys are now having FA trouble and the Pats aren't. One of them lost their HOF QB.

I won't derail thread, so this will be my only post, but "Media and fans" don't believe Smith can do that. Not the players or the coaches.

SAUTO

03-14-2017, 09:21 AM

Quality moderation at work here, CP. Great job. :thumb:

Agreed, good to see you are starting to get it.

03-14-2017, 09:31 AM

With the rollover rules, even overpaying for a single year is a big deal.

Moreover, football is essentially the exact opposite of baseball with its hard cap and non-guaranteed money. In baseball, there's literally no such thing as a bad 1-year contract. It can't hurt you long-term (no cap) and with no spending floors, there's nothing that's going to drive leaguewide spending inexorably forward. So a long-term deal that's 100% guaranteed isn't going to necessarily be a bargain in a year or two and if it isn't, you're still stuck with it.

Whereas in football, a long-term deal serves so many purposes. It allows you to shift cap. It gives you the opportunity to keep a guy below market if he performs. If he doesn't, it's non-guaranteed money so you cut him loose. In baseball, you pay a larger AAV to get a guy on a shorter term deal. In football, the exact opposite should be the case. If all you're getting is a single year out of it, you damn sure shouldn't be paying the market AAV for that year. It's why guys that are on the tag and sign a deal inevitably sign for less in AAV than that tag year would've been (and why their first year cap figure always drops).

Giving Logan an $8 million AAV without any sort of ability to capitalize on it if he DOES rebound to 2015's level is all risk with little upside.

That's why I don't think there's a chance in hell that this deal is truly an $8 million contract. If they were going to throw $8 million of this year's cap at somebody, they could've secured a $12 million AAV caliber player on a 3-4 year deal with the ability to shift money down the line and get out of a lot of it (or keep him if he performs).

1/$8 million just doesn't make any sense. Not when Chris Baker's getting 3/$18. I don't buy it.

one point to consider, not that it should be a primary driver for 1 yr $8M head scratcher of a contract, is if he DOES in fact make the most of his prove it 1 yr deal here and sign a good contract elsewhere, we are setup for a potential comp pick.

so if the going rate is $16M for a future 2nd (via the Brownstains), maybe $8M is a bargain for a future 3rd? (i kid of course) just sayin tho...

O.city

03-14-2017, 09:34 AM

I'd imagine it's a "up to 8 million" kind of deal, where he only hits that if he throws 8 tds in the superbowl and records 5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles.

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 09:39 AM

My guess would be $5 million with incentives.

TimBone

03-14-2017, 09:40 AM

How do deals with incentives work, regarding the cap?

SAUTO

03-14-2017, 09:41 AM

As long as we don't extend Alex I couldn't care any less how much we pay

03-14-2017, 09:46 AM

How do deals with incentives work, regarding the cap?

Incentives are either "likely to be earned" or "unlikely ...". The Unlikely don't count on the cap this year, but do next year if earned. the Likely incentives do count this year.

So with a "down year" last year, they can set incentive levels above what he accomplished last year and theoretically they wouldnt fall into the Likely category.

that's my laymans understanding, please correct if somebody has a better description.

mcaj22

03-14-2017, 09:48 AM

LOL is that Brian Daboll in your avy?

Alabama is gonna love him

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 09:49 AM

Before cuts next year we currently have $12 million in cap room for next year.

If we cut Smith, Hali and DJ next year....our cap room jumps to $44 million.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 09:52 AM

Incentives are either "likely to be earned" or "unlikely ...". The Unlikely don't count on the cap this year, but do next year if earned. the Likely incentives do count this year.

So with a "down year" last year, they can set incentive levels above what he accomplished last year and theoretically they wouldnt fall into the Likely category.

that's my laymans understanding, please correct if somebody has a better description.

The problem is that most of the 'likely to be earned' designations are are based on prior years, in fact I think all of them are.

He played a lot of games last year so if they Chiefs offered him 16 games worth of incentives, he played in 12, right? So 12 games worth of them would be considered LTBE and count in advance. I'd imagine they wouldn't have a hard time getting sack and/or 'accolade' incentives designated as 'unlikely' as he's never shown a propensity for pass rushing or pro bowls in the past.

If there's a shot at $8 million, I'd imagine most of that has to be based on unlikely to be earned incentives, perhaps not too different from the deal that Streater signed last year.

raybec 4

03-14-2017, 10:01 AM

Quality moderation at work here, CP. Great job. :thumb:

Take it easy Sandy Vagina, mods can joke too

Gary

03-14-2017, 10:02 AM

1 year, $8 million for Logan per ESPN

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18900178/bennie-logan-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-one-year-deal

Like how he works down the line.

SAUTO

03-14-2017, 10:07 AM

Take it easy Sandy Vagina, mods can joke too

We are posters first and foremost, we are here for enjoyment also.

RunKC

03-14-2017, 10:35 AM

Terez Paylor

Bennie Logan’s 1-year deal includes a $6.68M base salary - which is fully guaranteed - a $1M signing bonus & a $15,625k 46-man roster bonus.

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 10:36 AM

Where are we getting the space for that?

O.city

03-14-2017, 10:37 AM

Jesus

TimBone

03-14-2017, 10:37 AM

Where are we getting the space for that?

Alex extension (and CP meltdown) impending!

SAUTO

03-14-2017, 10:38 AM

Alex extension (and CP meltdown) impending!

Deservedly so.

RunKC

03-14-2017, 10:40 AM

I hope it's a Maclin restructure, Howard extension, or mix of those 2+ a Colquitt extension

mcaj22

03-14-2017, 10:40 AM

Deservedly so.

the meltdown or the extension

or both

SAUTO

03-14-2017, 10:42 AM

the meltdown or the extension

or both

ROFL the meltdown obviously.

I would definitely be melting down.

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 10:49 AM

Fuck that if that happens.

Sassy Squatch

03-14-2017, 10:57 AM

Holy shit. This is a bit unnerving.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 10:57 AM

Terez Paylor

Bennie Logan’s 1-year deal includes a $6.68M base salary - which is fully guaranteed - a $1M signing bonus & a $15,625k 46-man roster bonus.

So this deal went from a 'meh' in my book to officially goddamn retarded.

Congrats, Dorsey - you've offered a contract with absolutely ZERO upside baked into it. The absolute best case scenario is that you pay $8 million for 60% of your defensive snaps to be covered by a solid run-stopper...in an era where teams are passing more than ever and your offense can't win in a shootout.

So next season we'll be paying our 3rd safety, backup T, 2-down nose (and potential backup Nose if Howard and Bailey are healthy) and Punter about $19 million.

We're also giving Alex Smith $9 million more than we'd have had to give Nick Foles for virtually identical production.

Dorsey's had a shit offseason. The LDT signing is fine (seriously, look at what the OL market did this off-season, that contract is reasonable), the Berry extension is okay given the contracts given out to far lesser players like Reshad Jones.

But that's $18 million in cap space set ablaze for rotational players, backups and !@#$ing punters all because Dorsey and Reid are risk-averse. That money is fucking gone and in 2 years when we're trying to figure out how to retain Peters, Jones or Hill - remember the $18 million we don't have in rollover because we just had to spend it on guys that will play 50% of the time or on special teams.

That's all this is - they're spending scared right now; they don't want to draft someone to replace these part-time players and have them not work out then try to cover the hole on the fly (y'know - actually coach). For fuck's sake, they couldn't even 'risk' a change from Smith to Foles even though Smith showed nothing to suggest that there's a next step for him to take and the offense showed no decline under Foles.

Dorsey's tendency towards drafting a year ahead is coming into sharp focus. We've seen it at pro-active but you can just as easily see it as being defensive. He has to have his replacement in-house for a season before he's going to take that risk.

So you know what that means? That there is a ZERO percent chance that Smith is gone before 2018 if we don't take a QB in this draft. Absolutely zero. He and Reid will not start a rookie QB. They're too risk averse.

This is a stupid motherfucking use of resources. Absolutely insane.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:07 AM

Hell, theyve gotta make moves to make this work with the rookie pool.

Someone is grtting released

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:11 AM

Hell, theyve gotta make moves to make this work with the rookie pool.

Someone is grtting released

Embrace the terror.

They'll just fucking re-structure Smith.

You know it's the obvious route. This off-season has exposed some serious chickenshit tendencies from Dorsey.

RunKC

03-14-2017, 11:13 AM

So this deal went from a 'meh' in my book to officially goddamn retarded.

Congrats, Dorsey - you've offered a contract with absolutely ZERO upside baked into it. The absolute best case scenario is that you pay $8 million for 60% of your defensive snaps to be covered by a solid run-stopper...in an era where teams are passing more than ever and your offense can't win in a shootout.

So next season we'll be paying our 3rd safety, backup T, 2-down nose (and potential backup Nose if Howard and Bailey are healthy) and Punter about $19 million.

We're also giving Alex Smith $9 million more than we'd have had to give Nick Foles for virtually identical production.

Dorsey's had a shit offseason. The LDT signing is fine (seriously, look at what the OL market did this off-season, that contract is reasonable), the Berry extension is okay given the contracts given out to far lesser players like Reshad Jones.

But that's $18 million in cap space set ablaze for rotational players, backups and !@#$ing punters all because Dorsey and Reid are risk-averse. That money is ****ing gone and in 2 years when we're trying to figure out how to retain Peters, Jones or Hill - remember the $18 million we don't have in rollover because we just had to spend it on guys that will play 50% of the time or on special teams.

That's all this is - they're spending scared right now; they don't want to draft someone to replace these part-time players and have them not work out then try to cover the hole on the fly (y'know - actually coach). For ****'s sake, they couldn't even 'risk' a change from Smith to Foles even though Smith showed nothing to suggest that there's a next step for him to take and the offense showed no decline under Foles.

Dorsey's tendency towards drafting a year ahead is coming into sharp focus. We've seen it at pro-active but you can just as easily see it as being defensive. He has to have his replacement in-house for a season before he's going to take that risk.

So you know what that means? That there is a ZERO percent chance that Smith is gone before 2018 if we don't take a QB in this draft. Absolutely zero. He and Reid will not start a rookie QB. They're too risk averse.

This is a stupid mother****ing use of resources. Absolutely insane.

I don't agree with this signing either bc it screams need and overpaying. They know they can't find a NT in the draft so they blew a shit load on this guy.
They know it's now or never. They are going to ride this Alex Smith train into the fucking ground if they have to. Andy really believes he can get to the SB with Alex. He really does.

There are only 2 good things about this:

1. It's only one year.
2. We didn't pay Poe $10+ million.

Next month will tell us all we need to know. If they don't draft a QB in the first 2 rds and get the same mid rd crap developmental player, I'll be golfing on Sunday's this fall instead of watching this team.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:14 AM

Embrace the terror.

They'll just ****ing re-structure Smith.

You know it's the obvious route. This off-season has exposed some serious chickenshit tendencies from Dorsey.

I don't think so. I'm gonna go full benefit of the doubt here.

I think they'll take a qb early in this draft. It may not be who we want, but they're gonna take one and said guy will be the starter next year. Freeing up money from Smith's deal, and colquitt will be gone.

Surely.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:15 AM

A 1 year prove it deal with that much $ doesn't really make sense to me. He's gotta play really well to get any surplus there.

RunKC

03-14-2017, 11:16 AM

A 1 year prove it deal with that much $ doesn't really make sense to me. He's gotta play really well to get any surplus there.

They are going all in and are extremely desperate.

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 11:17 AM

If they extend or restructure Smith.....then Reid needs to go. There is no way that he can watch last year and think that he can win with that piece of shit.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:18 AM

I dunno, Benny Logan doesn't scream all in. If they were doing that, give Brandon williams a big deal.

pugsnotdrugs19

03-14-2017, 11:18 AM

Let's see the corresponding moves first. It's questionable on the surface, but until we see what the big plan here is, I'll wait on freaking out.

Sandy Vagina

03-14-2017, 11:19 AM

I like Logan, but this amount is rather insane. I would expect more of a 3-4 mil per yr max deal.. not 1 yr for 8. Not for Logan.. and not with Howard back from injury.

Not a fan right now of a Smith extension. CP would be hilarious to read, but no. At age 32... with the concussions.. and the unwillingness to play with more aggression... no.

raybec 4

03-14-2017, 11:19 AM

Maybe they try and reach an injury settlement with DJ

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 11:19 AM

This signing screams all in? Enlighten me. Signing Williams from BAL and Hightower from NE would scream all in.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:19 AM

I don't think so. I'm gonna go full benefit of the doubt here.

I think they'll take a qb early in this draft. It may not be who we want, but they're gonna take one and said guy will be the starter next year. Freeing up money from Smith's deal, and colquitt will be gone.

Surely.

They'll fucking extend Colquitt.

The guy should've been gone TWO seasons ago. He's just a goddamn punter. Daniel should've been gone last year but Reid was terrified of having to use a backup. I mean just look at all the money that's been torched, not just on injured guys but on surperflous luxury players like Chase Daniel and Dustin Colquitt.

People grouse about the Chiefs waiting too long to sign Houston or Berry but that's not even the biggest problem, the problem is that they're going to be lugging around tens of millions in cap space that could've been offset by rollovers created through moving on from guys who simply aren't worth their production and were kept on the roster out of pure fear.

It's a good way to end up with a .500 ballclub in short order.

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 11:20 AM

I like Logan, but this amount is rather insane. I would expect more of a 3-4 mil max per yr max deal.. not 1 yr for 8. Not for Logan.. and not with Howard back from injury.

Not a fan right now of a Smith extension. CP would be hilarious to read, but no. At age 32... with the concussions.. and the unwillingness to play with more aggression... no.

I'll disown this fucking team is they extend him.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:21 AM

They'll ****ing extend Colquitt.

The guy should've been gone TWO seasons ago. He's just a goddamn punter. Daniel should've been gone last year but Reid was terrified of having to use a backup. I mean just look at all the money that's been torched, not just on injured guys but on surperflous luxury players like Chase Daniel and Dustin Colquitt.

People grouse about the Chiefs waiting too long to sign Houston or Berry but that's not even the biggest problem, the problem is that they're going to be lugging around tens of millions in cap space that could've been offset by rollovers created through moving on from guys who simply aren't worth their production and were kept on the roster out of pure fear.

It's a good way to end up with a .500 ballclub in short order.

They've been afraid to walk away from some guys for sure. Hali, dj, etc.

Seems they have a few blindspots.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:21 AM

Let's see the corresponding moves first. It's questionable on the surface, but until we see what the big plan here is, I'll wait on freaking out.

Why?

What brilliant goddamn move can be made to justify setting $8 million on fire for a 2-down, potential backup NT?

Because even if they convince Houston, Smith, DJ and Hali to all take voluntary paycuts and just donate money back to the cap, that money is STILL not being wisely spent on Logan. And in a rollover era when every dollar you spend literally has impacts on the cap in perpetuity because it costs you future cap credits, that's short-sighted and stupid.

Just a dumb, dumb decision.

ptlyon

03-14-2017, 11:21 AM

Embrace the terror.

ROFL. I love this line.

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 11:22 AM

I like the signing and it sounds like he is the run stuffer we need. Don't get the money but whatever.

Sandy Vagina

03-14-2017, 11:22 AM

I'll disown this ****ing team is they extend him.

ah, don't be like that. Good fans blindly stick with their team no matter how badly they get pissed on.

/CPrules101

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 11:22 AM

Why?

What brilliant goddamn move can be made to justify setting $8 million on fire for a 2-down, potential backup NT?

Because even if they convince Houston, Smith, DJ and Hali to all take voluntary paycuts and just donate money back to the cap, that money is STILL not being wisely spent on Logan. And in a rollover era when every dollar you spend literally has impacts on the cap in perpetuity because it costs you future cap credits, that's short-sighted and stupid.

Just a dumb, dumb decision.

I'm not freaking out because it's only a 1 year deal.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:23 AM

They've gotta view Logan as more than a 2 down player for that $, but if that's the case, why only a 1 year deal?

Not a fan

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 11:25 AM

This team isn't good at getting ahead of the market on deals with players. (Houston, Berry, Sorenson, Parker, etc.), but I'm willing to back Dorsey on this one.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:25 AM

I'm not freaking out because it's only a 1 year deal.

Every deal in the NFL is a 1 year deal.

It's a 1 year deal that still impacts our cap next year and the year after because we're going to have to make moves with the roster to fit it in. And why? Precisely because its a 1-year deal so all that money has to be slammed into this year's cap.

And when we go into next season with zero cap rollover, people will wonder why we're tight against the cap again. And when we can't cut Smith or when we've extended Colquitt or when we've hamstrung ourselves by whatever stupid damn move we're going to have to make to find the money to cover this wild overpay, what then?

This idea that 1-year deal makes a stupid decision okay is just a complete misunderstanding of the long-term impacts on the cap.

Everything about this contract is bad. Absolutely everything.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:28 AM

RunKC

03-14-2017, 11:31 AM

Every deal in the NFL is a 1 year deal.

It's a 1 year deal that still impacts our cap next year and the year after because we're going to have to make moves with the roster to fit it in. And why? Precisely because its a 1-year deal so all that money has to be slammed into this year's cap.

And when we go into next season with zero cap rollover, people will wonder why we're tight against the cap again. And when we can't cut Smith or when we've extended Colquitt or when we've hamstrung ourselves by whatever stupid damn move we're going to have to make to find the money to cover this wild overpay, what then?

This idea that 1-year deal makes a stupid decision okay is just a complete misunderstanding of the long-term impacts on the cap.

Everything about this contract is bad. Absolutely everything.

Dorsey has 10 picks next month and his sole purpose should be selecting talented players to provide depth this year and give us cap relief next year.

Alex
Tamba
D. Harris
DJ
Parker
Colquitt

Draft your 2018 players now, get them experience and replace the vets to open up the damn check book in 2018.

raybec 4

03-14-2017, 11:32 AM

With the lack of interest he seems to be getting we probably could have brought Poe back for that money. Not that he's any better but he knows the system.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:34 AM

Only way it works out is if he plays up to the deal.

Also, after some looking around, I think i've stumbled on another myth we've created here. We think these 2 down NT run stuffers are easy to find. Shitty ones are. I don't know the last time we actually had a good one or really, had a good run defense.

Poe had the 13 and 14 seasons, but in terms of just going ham on the C/G and shutting down the middle, I dunno?

Maybe we undervalue that here?

How's Chris Baker get 3/$16.4 million and we give Logan $8 million for 1?

Baker's a better, more versatile player than Logan and his deal is worth a fraction of Logans. If the Redskins cut Baker next season, they'll have paid him $6 million for 1 season. If he shows to be worth it, they'll get him next year for another $4.8 million and if he's still productive, a season after that at $4.8 million.

That's the benefit of long-term contracts; there's actual upside built in. At the absolute worst, the Redskins are out less than the Chiefs are on Logan for a guy that was more productive than Logan last year. And at best they get 3 years of a guy that was good against the run and the pass last year for an AAV about 2/3 as much as we got for a pure run-stuffer.

Why the hell are we giving a guy $8 million to 'restore his value'? Jesus Christ, if his value isn't $8 million, exactly what the hell is it?

RunKC

03-14-2017, 11:35 AM

$7.68 cap hit. That's more than anybody on the DL. For a 2 down run stuffer.

What the fuck

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 11:36 AM

Dorsey has 10 picks next month and his sole purpose should be selecting talented players to provide depth this year and give us cap relief next year.

Alex
Tamba
D. Harris
DJ
Parker
Colquitt

Draft your 2018 players now, get them experience and replace the vets to open up the damn check book in 2018.

So Dorsey's effectively created a mandatory 'needs' draft for next season. Because as you've noted - he doesn't have a choice. He'll have no rollover and some of these backloaded deals (I believe you forgot Bailey), are going to get damn expensive next season.

So he has to draft for next years needs this year. It's not even like he has flexibility now - he doesn't. He can't take BPA, he HAS to take a QB, OLB, ILB and S. That or we're going to be in perpetual cap hell.

mcaj22

03-14-2017, 11:54 AM

Only way this makes sense is if they see Bailey-Logan-Howard as the starters and Chris Jones as the sub nickel pass rusher

Marcellus

03-14-2017, 11:55 AM

Embrace the terror.

They'll just ****ing re-structure Smith.

You know it's the obvious route. This off-season has exposed some serious chickenshit tendencies from Dorsey.

What?

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 11:57 AM

Only way this makes sense is if they see Bailey-Logan-Howard as the starters and Chris Jones as the sub nickel pass rusher

Or they're planning on getting rid of Bailey or Howard.

O.city

03-14-2017, 11:59 AM

How's Chris Baker get 3/$16.4 million and we give Logan $8 million for 1?

Baker's a better, more versatile player than Logan and his deal is worth a fraction of Logans. If the Redskins cut Baker next season, they'll have paid him $6 million for 1 season. If he shows to be worth it, they'll get him next year for another $4.8 million and if he's still productive, a season after that at $4.8 million.

That's the benefit of long-term contracts; there's actual upside built in. At the absolute worst, the Redskins are out less than the Chiefs are on Logan for a guy that was more productive than Logan last year. And at best they get 3 years of a guy that was good against the run and the pass last year for an AAV about 2/3 as much as we got for a pure run-stuffer.

Why the hell are we giving a guy $8 million to 'restore his value'? Jesus Christ, if his value isn't $8 million, exactly what the hell is it?

I don't know. Im trying to wrap my head around it.

Looking at the Giants for example and how big of a different snack made there. Maybe the chiefs see Logan as doing that here. But if that's the case, a 1 year deal is weird.

I don't know. Looks bad.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 12:01 PM

Or they're planning on getting rid of Bailey or Howard.

Then you don't sign him to a 1 year deal.

Discuss Thrower

03-14-2017, 12:06 PM

They'll fucking extend Colquitt.

The guy should've been gone TWO seasons ago. He's just a goddamn punter. Daniel should've been gone last year but Reid was terrified of having to use a backup. I mean just look at all the money that's been torched, not just on injured guys but on surperflous luxury players like Chase Daniel and Dustin Colquitt.

People grouse about the Chiefs waiting too long to sign Houston or Berry but that's not even the biggest problem, the problem is that they're going to be lugging around tens of millions in cap space that could've been offset by rollovers created through moving on from guys who simply aren't worth their production and were kept on the roster out of pure fear.

It's a good way to end up with a .500 ballclub in short order.

Pretty clear the priority is to all but insure KC doesn't crash below 8-8 from season to season.

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 12:13 PM

Pretty clear the priority is to all but insure KC doesn't crash below 8-8 from season to season.

"HOW DOES BILL BELICHICK DO IT YEAR AFTER YEAR!?!?!?!"

{looks for $10 million in punters and backup QBs on roster....sees none}

Oh.

O.city

03-14-2017, 12:24 PM

I've never understood the need for an expensive backup. If your qb goes down, you're fucked anywah

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 12:26 PM

I've never understood the need for an expensive backup. If your qb goes down, you're fucked anywah

Unless you're the Pats. Then you trade them for picks the next offseason.

Discuss Thrower

03-14-2017, 12:29 PM

I've never understood the need for an expensive backup. If your qb goes down, you're fucked anywah

Unless you're the Colts.

And then your backups sucking shit get you Andrew Luck.

raybec 4

03-14-2017, 12:30 PM

I was pretty glad we got him. I just hope the numbers are wrong. That would be the correct money if it was a two year deal instead of one.

Quesadilla Joe

03-14-2017, 12:47 PM

I've never understood the need for an expensive backup. If your qb goes down, you're ****ed anywah

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gruden once asked Tom Moore why Peyton's backups didn't get more reps 'Fellas, if 18 goes down we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked.'</p>— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/197235934272552960">May 1, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tribal Warfare

03-14-2017, 12:49 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gruden once asked Tom Moore why Peyton's backups didn't get more reps 'Fellas, if 18 goes down we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked.'</p>— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/197235934272552960">May 1, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Then they won the Andrew Luck sweepstakes

kccrow

03-14-2017, 12:53 PM

I was pretty glad we got him. I just hope the numbers are wrong. That would be the correct money if it was a two year deal instead of one.

They have to be wrong... KC couldn't even afford that contract. I think Rap's fax machine is broken and it's supposed to be 3 million with 1.68 guaranteed, but that'd make sense.

NJChiefsFan

03-14-2017, 12:56 PM

Quality moderation at work here, CP. Great job. :thumb:

Dude relax. They aren't politicians and this is still CP I hope. A sense of humor and thick skin is still ideal.

ah, don't be like that. Good fans blindly stick with their team no matter how badly they get pissed on.

/CPrules101

Are you seriously saying that staying loyal to 1 team no matter what is a CP thing? I would venture to say that almost all of the adult sports fans in the world believe in this.

LoneWolf

03-14-2017, 01:11 PM

Only way this makes sense is if they see Bailey-Logan-Howard as the starters and Chris Jones as the sub nickel pass rusher

Huh? Chris Jones is their best DL. Why would the Chiefs seeing him as the sub nickel pass rusher make this deal make any more or less sense than it does now?

They made this deal because they obviously had a hole in their defense with Poe's departure and they needed a way to shore up the run defense from last season. We may think that the financials don't make sense, but I'm willing to trust that Dorsey knows more about what's going on than a bunch of keyboard GMs on ChiefsPlanet.

O.city

03-14-2017, 01:13 PM

Jones tends to get pushed around vs the run. Hopefully a full offseason in the system gets that figured out.

Mav

03-14-2017, 01:25 PM

Exactly what the Chiefs needed. A run stuffing interior lineman.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

staylor26

03-14-2017, 01:28 PM

Jones tends to get pushed around vs the run. Hopefully a full offseason in the system gets that figured out.

I follow him on his instagram and the guys been working out like crazy since the season ended. He wants to be great.

RunKC

03-14-2017, 01:40 PM

I love what this guy brings to the front 7, but 2 down run stuffers usually have a market of roughly $4 million a year for their services.

We are in the nickel roughly 65% of the time or more. If we're up against a good passing team, then that's like 80% of the time. It really doesn't make sense to pay Howard, Bailey and Logan big $$ and have one or even 2 of those guys off the field a lot. You have Chris Jones, who is has to be a starter in both normal formation and nickel, then you have all 3 of these paid vets for 1 spot.

So we're overpaying for depth? Maybe bc of what happened last year? Why not just cut Bailey or Howard and bring back Reyes back on a small deal?

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 01:41 PM

"HOW DOES BILL BELICHICK DO IT YEAR AFTER YEAR!?!?!?!"

{looks for $10 million in punters and backup QBs on roster....sees none}

Oh.

Has the HOF QB. Doesn't need those. KC on the other hand...

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 01:42 PM

DJ's left nut

03-14-2017, 01:45 PM

Chris Jones needs to be on the field as much as possible. Also, this DL needs to ****ing perform. They were so bad last season when they were all healthy and playing. Run defense needs to get a lot better. They were good in short yardage though.

Worse than bad, they were disinterested.

It showed from the first snap of the first pre-season game. Howard looked like he was mailing it in because he didn't get paid like he thought he should, Poe looked like he was saving himself for something (damn sure wasn't the playoffs) and Bailey just looked like the same Bailey that plateaued 3 years ago.

Their no-show against the Patriots carried right over into the next season and it wasn't until Jones and guys like RNR got a little run that the unit showed any energy at all.

The down linemen were massive disappointments last year. That said, I still don't think the answer is overpaying another DL.

MotherfuckerJones

03-14-2017, 01:48 PM

Worse than bad, they were disinterested.

It showed from the first snap of the first pre-season game. Howard looked like he was mailing it in because he didn't get paid like he thought he should, Poe looked like he was saving himself for something (damn sure wasn't the playoffs) and Bailey just looked like the same Bailey that plateaued 3 years ago.

Their no-show against the Patriots carried right over into the next season and it wasn't until Jones and guys like RNR got a little run that the unit showed any energy at all.

The down linemen were massive disappointments last year. That said, I still don't think the answer is overpaying another DL.

May not be the answer. Just hope they find replacements for these bums. I'm over this DL with the exception of Jones and RNR. Like you said, they were the fire on the DL. The others were purely a disaster.

The Franchise

03-14-2017, 01:48 PM

We're going to do something stupid like draft a defensive linemen in the 1st, let him ride the bench for most of the year and then let Howard/Logan walk next offseason. Can't fucking wait.

staylor26

03-14-2017, 01:49 PM

We're going to do something stupid like draft a defensive linemen in the 1st, let him ride the bench for most of the year and then let Howard/Logan walk next offseason. Can't ****ing wait.

No way. That's not where the value will be at 27. It will be QB, RB, ILB, or OLB. I do expect us to go DL on day 2 though.

Sandy Vagina

03-14-2017, 01:54 PM

Not that anything can excuse the 1 yr 8 mil deal.. if it's accurate... but this was a good article on Logan vs Poe..

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/3/14/14919674/bennie-logan-film-review-a-fit-for-the-kansas-city-chiefs

Logan handily beats Poe when it comes to win percentage (by almost seven percent), and absolutely CRUSHES Poe in loss percentage (Poe losing twice as often as Logan on a snap-by-snap basis). That is a massive difference

To put it bluntly, Logan was (based on the stats compiled) significantly better than Poe last season, not only as a run defender, but as a pass rusher as well. He lost at a lower rate in both categories, and the difference in run defense is absolutely striking. Poe had more run defense losses in three separate games than Bennie Logan did in all four games I reviewed COMBINED.