Holland and Hoch

[gblowfish]

I was wondering what these guys were doing now. Looks like Greg Holland is doing pretty well as closer for the Colorado Rockies. He's got a save, lot more K's than walks, and his ERA is around 2.25. Colorado sports page said his fastball is back up to his pre-injury speed of around 93mph. He's on a one year deal with the Rockies. It sure would be great to have him instead of Soria.

Has Hoch retired? I didn't see where anybody signed him this season. Was his arm basically toast after last year?

[siberian khatru]

Hoch is unsigned and behind in his rehab. Story this week said 2017 is likely a washout for him.

[Prison Bitch]

Holland is at 94 and was at 96 pre-injuries

[siberian khatru]

Re: Holland, it's more than a one-year deal.

He's got a base salary of $6 million, but with incentives he can earn $14 million. But if he either pitches in 50 games or finishes 30 games this season, the contract vests into a $15 million player option for 2018.

Keep in mind Soria is making $8 million this year and $9 million next year, with a $1 million buyout in 2019. Now, that's not a good contract, but it's an $18 million commitment to what could be a $29 million commitment to Holland. And when Holland signed, it was after a terrible throwing exhibition for teams in which his velocity was way down, and the Rockies were widely questioned when they signed him for so much. Lots of teams who needed closers passed on him.

So I'm comfortable not looking at Holland with hindsight. I wish him well, but I don't blame the Royals for passing at the time (plus, there's no guarantee he'd be the closer here, and thus no guarantee he would've signed with KC).

[JohnnyHammersticks]

I'm a HUGE Rockies fan and watch every game. Holland has been great, in fact, the Rockies bullpen has been lights-out, which is amazing because it was the worst in baseball last year.

Last night was the first night Holland gave up a run. Rockies had a 3-run lead going into the 9th, Holland walked the first guy, gave up 3 hits, and the Dodgers scored a couple, but Holland got out with the save. Good news is, one of the hits was a flare and the other 2 were seeing-eye ground balls which could've just as easily been ground outs.

He's been topping out at 95mph, last night was the first game he touched 96, which he did twice. So his velocity is almost all the way back. His slider is still virtually un-hittable, and he's got a phenomenal defense behind him. Adam Ottovino pitching the 7th, Mike Dunn pitching the 8th, and Holland closing remind me-slightly-of the Royals of a couple years ago. Sure is nice when all you have to do is get to the 7th inning with a lead!

[gblowfish]

Royals play the Rockies in August at Kauffman. Should be interesting.

[Chiefspants]

Boras was absolutely filthy to get Holland a 2 year deal worth up to 35 million with Holly coming off TJS. I totally understand why the Royals didn't want to match it.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Royals play the Rockies in August at Kauffman. Should be interesting.

With another ex-Royal, Bud Black, as the Rockies manager.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Boras was absolutely filthy to get Holland a 2 year deal worth up to 35 million with him coming off TJ. I totally understand why the Royals didn't want to match it.

Right. If Holland keeps up his current pace, he's going to bank some serious coin. The Nationals wanted him too, and were willing to pay. He came to Colorado because he's comfortable with pitching coach Steve Foster. His old bullpen coach in KC, I think.

[Ecto-I]

I was wondering what these guys were doing now. Looks like Greg Holland is doing pretty well as closer for the Colorado Rockies. He's got a save, lot more K's than walks, and his ERA is around 2.25. Colorado sports page said his fastball is back up to his pre-injury speed of around 93mph. He's on a one year deal with the Rockies. It sure would be great to have him instead of Soria.

Has Hoch retired? I didn't see where anybody signed him this season. Was his arm basically toast after last year?

Instead of Soria? I know it's still early, but so far through 7 innings pitched, Soria has given up 0 runs. Holland has given up 2 through 8. Of course that could all change with one bad inning, but thus far Soria has shown encouraging signs.

[sedated]

Holland is at 94 and was at 96 pre-injuries

That's what I thought too, 96 with some at 97. I actually think he was 93-95 in 2015 and people were concerned about his drop in velocity.

[Deberg_1990]

I think our bullpen has been really good as of late. Especially after Strahm got dropped.

Its helping that the starters are going 7-8 innings nearly every night.

[lewdog]

Happy for Holland. Surprised at how he's doing. Not sure it will last though. I definitely see why the Royals did not resign him. Even with how the bullpen is doing this year, I don't think they could have risked that much cash on a guy coming off TJS.

[tmax63]

I watch the Rockies a lot living out here, hell I even asked for and received permission to root for the Rockies on this board a long time ago when both teams sucked mightily. Holland has been better than expected to date. His 1st rough inning was last night at the Dodgers and he still managed to get the save and keep the win. If our #1 starter wasn't down for at least a month with a stress fracture in his foot and our #2 battling a reoccurrence of testicular cancer that has spread to his lymph nodes I would start to feel pretty good about the Rockies.

[PHOG]

I watch the Rockies a lot living out here, hell I even asked for and received permission to root for the Rockies on this board a long time ago when both teams sucked mightily. If our #1 starter wasn't down for at least a month with a stress fracture in his foot and our #2 battling a reoccurrence of testicular cancer that has spread to his lymph nodes I would start to feel pretty good about the Rockies.

:eek: That's some bad stuff, hope he does ok

[lewdog]

I watch the Rockies a lot living out here, hell I even asked for and received permission to root for the Rockies on this board a long time ago when both teams sucked mightily. Holland has been better than expected to date. His 1st rough inning was last night at the Dodgers and he still managed to get the save and keep the win. If our #1 starter wasn't down for at least a month with a stress fracture in his foot and our #2 battling a reoccurrence of testicular cancer that has spread to his lymph nodes I would start to feel pretty good about the Rockies.

I really like quite a few Rockies players. I think their lineup could be a top 5 hitting team in the NL. And if their pitching can even be average, they will likely stick around all year. Would be fun to see for a franchise that has never really done much on a consistent basis.

[tmax63]

Arenado is a f@#$ing monster, both with the glove and bat. Too bad like the Royals, the Rockies don't get any attention anywhere outside their home range.

[lewdog]

Arenado is a f@#$ing monster, both with the glove and bat. Too bad like the Royals, the Rockies don't get any attention anywhere outside their home range.

He's an absolute stud. Love watching him play.

[BWillie]

Boras was absolutely filthy to get Holland a 2 year deal worth up to 35 million with Holly coming off TJS. I totally understand why the Royals didn't want to match it.

Bla bla bla Boras. You are what you are worth. If a team lets an agent trick you into believing a player is worth much more than they are, that team is ran by a bunch of idiots.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Arenado is a f@#$ing monster, both with the glove and bat. Too bad like the Royals, the Rockies don't get any attention anywhere outside their home range.

I like watching Nolan Arenado play the way I used to like watching George Brett play.

The Rockies could be interesting. They're off to a good start with very little starting pitching and zero production from a couple of their big bats (Cargo & Story). Once they get Jon Gray, Ian Desmond, and David Dahl (starting LF) back, and if Story and Cargo start hitting, they could really make some noise. Their bullpen and Arenado are carrying them right now.

Bud Black makes a huge difference too.

[Prison Bitch]

Boras was absolutely filthy to get Holland a 2 year deal worth up to 35 million with Holly coming off TJS. I totally understand why the Royals didn't want to match it.

I'm seeing 2/21 max



Where's the math on 35?

[Chiefspants]

I'm seeing 2/21 max



Where's the math on 35?

USAToday had a pretty good breakdown of the deal.

DENVER (AP) — Reliever Greg Holland can earn up to $35 million over two years, including performance bonuses, under his new deal with the Colorado Rockies.

Holland is guaranteed $7 million under the agreement announced Saturday.

He has a $6 million salary this year, and the agreement includes a $15 million conditional player option for 2018 that Holland could exercise if he has at least 50 pitching appearances or 30 games finished this year. If he fails to reach either of those, there would be a $10 million mutual option with a $1 million buyout if Holland declines to exercise it.

There is an $8 million maximum for performance bonus this year. He would get $500,000 each for 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 and 55 pitching appearances. For games finished, he would get $1 million apiece for 20 and 30, and $2 million each for 40, 50 and 60.

In 2018, he could earn $2 million each for 30, 40 and 50 games finished.

Holland has additional award bonuses, including $100,000 for Comeback Player of the Year.

He missed all of last season because of reconstructive elbow surgery that kept him sidelined for all of last season. He said Saturday he expects to be ready for the spring training next month.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/01/29/holland-can-make-35m-over-2-years-under-rockies-contract/97218456/

[Prison Bitch]

It's Obv wrong. Unless there's any document I could see, I wouldn't take the AP take on anything. I see 2/21


Be logical: no MLB team would ever pay Greg Holland 17M to close games. Under no circumstance. Aroldis Chapman is the highest paid closer, by the biggest revenue team, at 17/per. A perfectly healthy, dominant Chapman in NYC = a hurt Holland? Not a chance.


Jansen got 16/per in the 2nd biggest revenue market. Another dominant, healthy closer. Melancon 15/per in the 3rd revenue market.... Other comps of Britton 11, Wade 10, Andy Miller 9


You get the idea.

[Chiefspants]

It's Obv wrong. Unless there's any document I could see, I wouldn't take the AP take on anything. I see 2/21


Be logical: no MLB team would ever pay Greg Holland 17M to close games. Under no circumstance. Aroldis Chapman is the highest paid closer, by the biggest revenue team, at 17/per. A perfectly healthy, dominant Chapman in NYC = a hurt Holland? Not a chance.


Jansen got 16/per in the 2nd biggest revenue market. Another dominant, healthy closer. Melancon 15/per in the 3rd revenue market.... Other comps of Britton 11, Wade 10, Andy Miller 9


You get the idea.

Odd, as the higher totals are being backed up by Denver's own media:

Alan: Whatever that “something” is, that “something” is right. If Holland continues to pitch with this kind of success as the closer, he’s going to be endorsing some major paychecks.

Here is a breakdown of Holland’s contract:

— He’ll earn a base salary of $6 million this season and there is $1 million toward an option for 2018, so he’s guaranteed $7 million.

— Holland also has $3 million worth of non-closing incentives this season and can earn up to $14 million if he pitches primarily as Colorado’s closer. Right now, he’s 7-for-7 in save opportunities and has a 0.00 ERA. He’s well on his way to that $14 million.

— If Holland either pitches in 50 games or finishes 30 games this season, the contract vests into a $15 million player option for 2018, one that Holland can either accept or reject if he wants to hit the open market next offseason.

That's 2/29, and does not include the incentives he could rake in during 2018, as broken down by the AP.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/18/rockies-mailbag-april-18-2017/

[JohnnyHammersticks]

It's Obv wrong. Unless there's any document I could see, I wouldn't take the AP take on anything. I see 2/21


Be logical: no MLB team would ever pay Greg Holland 17M to close games. Under no circumstance. Aroldis Chapman is the highest paid closer, by the biggest revenue team, at 17/per. A perfectly healthy, dominant Chapman in NYC = a hurt Holland? Not a chance.


Jansen got 16/per in the 2nd biggest revenue market. Another dominant, healthy closer. Melancon 15/per in the 3rd revenue market.... Other comps of Britton 11, Wade 10, Andy Miller 9


You get the idea.

While I don't know his exact numbers, the Rockies always have to overpay free agent pitchers because of Coors Field. When the money is equal, pitchers will always chose to go somewhere else.

[Prison Bitch]

While I don't know his exact numbers, the Rockies always have to overpay free agent pitchers because of Coors Field. When the money is equal, pitchers will always chose to go somewhere else.

Do you have evidence of this?

I'm giving zero chance Colorado (200M revenue) is going to pay the same money for an injured closer coming off TJ the same dollars NYY (500M revenue) or LA (400M revenue) just paid for elite, healthy closers.

[Chiefspants]

Do you have evidence of this?
.

Here it is on Baseball Prospectus

[Prison Bitch]

Here it is on Baseball Prospectus

You're just rehashing the AP claim, now twice.


"A person familiar with the deal" doesn't cut it with me. Maybe it does for you.

[Chiefspants]

You're just rehashing the AP claim, now twice.

Can you provide any evidence on your end? You're just shouting "Fake News!" at the three sources I provided. Since AP, the Rockies own beat writer, and Prospectus don't meet your standards, I'm gonna need more from your end, PB.