Did the Chiefs Want Trubisky?

[Chiefnj2]

I know the immediate reaction will be "No, it was Mahomes all they way", but a few post draft interviews leave me wondering if Trubisky was the #1 QB on their board. First, in the MMQB 49ers draft article Shanahan was quoted as saying KC was offering a lot to the Titans to move up to #5. The 49ers couldn't fathom who KC was trading up for.

The Titans GM was on Sirius radio doing a post draft interview and he talked about how a couple of teams had reached out to them to trade up to #5, but that all the calls went dead after the Bears chose Trubisky at #2 and came off the board.

So, is there a chance KC wanted to move to #5 for Mitch?

[Sandy Vagina]

Doubt we will ever really know.

It makes the most sense for KC to now claim Mahomes was their guy all along. They obviously still liked him enough to select him at #10, so.. guess it doesn't really matter if he was first choice.

[The Franchise]

Thank God they didn't. A 1st, 2nd, 4th and another 1st would have been too much to give up for Trubisky.

[DRM08]

I think that's BS from the Bears trying to make their pick look better.

[Chiefnj2]

I think that's BS from the Bears trying to make their pick look better.

It wasn't Bears. Info came from Titans and 49ers.

[DRM08]

It wasn't Bears. Info came from Titans and 49ers.

In the 49ers report, I assumed the Chiefs wanted Pat at #5 because of the Jets and Chargers. They got lucky neither of them went for a QB.

As far as the Titans GM goes, who knows what to think of that. They reached on Corey Davis and maybe he doesn't want to admit they turned down trade offers that were still on the table. Or maybe he's telling the truth and Reid/Dorsey are lying about Mahomes' performance relative to the other QB's in the interview process.

Trubisky is an interesting prospect. Some say he's a safer pick than Mahomes, but I think his bust potential is just as bad and possibly worse than Mahomes. Trubisky seems like a nice kid who is in over his head based on interviews I've seen, the Gruden show where he tried to bullshit his way through a hard count and Gruden nailed him for it, etc. I think his ceiling is game manager. I could also see him turning into a mega bust. Obviously Mahomes has mega bust potential too given the flaws in his game, but he also has superstar potential on the high end.

[staylor26]

No fucking way. It's pretty obvious Mahomes was their guy. Dorsey said he was working on mutlotple trade spots.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Mahomes was the best prospect in the draft (last year's too). Don't see where the hard on for Trubisky came from. Dude looks like a future JAG

[RealSNR]

I liked Trubisky a lot, but I'd rather have Mahomes at 10 than Trubisky at 5.

Then again, Dorsey seemed to be fine with pissing away picks on shit like trading up for Chesson, so maybe the extra draft stock didn't matter in the end.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The Chesson move was terrible

[ModSocks]

No ****ing way. It's pretty obvious Mahomes was their guy. Dorsey said he was working on mutlotple trade spots.

This. Dorsey had stated that he had been working on multiple trade deals into the top 10. He decided that #10 was the right spot, gambled and won.

[Sassy Squatch]

Pretty sure there was some sort of deal worked out with the Bills a couple of days before the draft that if Mahomes was there at 10 the trade was happening. Doubt they still wanted to move after that.

[Titty Meat]

I wondered the same when I read that too. Alot of times were high on him. I dont get the hate the Bears got.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Never read anything predraft about the Chiefs even sniffing Trubisky. But there was an awful lot of reports about Mahommes being coveted.

[NJChiefsFan27]

I actually really like Trubisky but I doubt there was any real effort underway to trade up, and I don't think he was worth mortgaging the future for. That said, it pains me to see another year wasted with Smith ..

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Dorsey said the other day he attended two of Mahomes games. Now who knows if he attended Trubiskys

[DaneMcCloud]

The Chesson move was terrible

Chesson will be very good, if healthy

[DaneMcCloud]

And no, the Chiefs didn't want Trubisky.

Mahomes was their guy since last Fall.

[Sfeihc]

Chesson will be very good, if healthy

Truth. Jehu will impress soon enough.

[Willie Lanier]

Chesson will be very good, if healthy

Meh, I'm not seeing it...

To be honest that pick pissed me off, because I think Conley is an underappreciated wide out...

[DJ's left nut]

Meh, I'm not seeing it...

To be honest that pick pissed me off, because I think Conley is an underappreciated wide out...

Chesson would be a complementary player for Conley if he pans out but it would happen at the expense of the 2 TE set.

If you have two big, strong WRs on the outside, they draw a lot of safety attention because if they're matched up 1 on 1, you can just attack the corner and let the bigger WR muscle his way to the ball. Guys like Conley (and guys with Chesson's skills set) are 'point of catch' players; guys that will win in tight spaces to get most of their production.

What that does is create space over the middle and underneath for quick twitch players like Hill or just straight up matchup nightmares like Kelce.

If Conley takes another step in his development (he needs to; still hasn't shown the quick twitch ability or route-running skills to win early in his routes, a vital component to this offense if he ever becomes the Z receiver), you'll simply see Chesson play the X alongside him and you'll see fewer 2 TE sets because they'll convert to a more single-back, 1 TE, 1 Y look.

And if Conley's never anything more than he is now, you probably don't want to give him that 2nd contract for $4-5 million/yr because he can't be a #1 and 2s are easier to find for cheap. Chesson could be that guy.

It's not the pick I'd have made, but you can see the philosophy behind it.

[raybec 4]

Chesson would be a complementary player for Conley if he pans out but it would happen at the expense of the 2 TE set.

If you have two big, strong WRs on the outside, they draw a lot of safety attention because if they're matched up 1 on 1, you can just attack the corner and let the bigger WR muscle his way to the ball. Guys like Conley (and guys with Chesson's skills set) are 'point of catch' players; guys that will win in tight spaces to get most of their production.

What that does is create space over the middle and underneath for quick twitch players like Hill or just straight up matchup nightmares like Kelce.

If Conley takes another step in his development (he needs to; still hasn't shown the quick twitch ability or route-running skills to win early in his routes, a vital component to this offense if he ever becomes the Z receiver), you'll simply see Chesson play the X alongside him and you'll see fewer 2 TE sets because they'll convert to a more single-back, 1 TE, 1 Y look.

And if Conley's never anything more than he is now, you probably don't want to give him that 2nd contract for $4-5 million/yr because he can't be a #1 and 2s are easier to find for cheap. Chesson could be that guy.

It's not the pick I'd have made, but you can see the philosophy behind it.
Great post. Couple that with the fact that Chesson is a 2nd round pick if he doesn't get hurt in the 2015 Bowl Game. He came in a few games into the season last year with a brand new QB and still produced reasonably well.

[DaneMcCloud]

Meh, I'm not seeing it...

To be honest that pick pissed me off, because I think Conley is an underappreciated wide out...

I'm a fan of Conley's and I like the progress he made last year.

But Chesson is a "stronger" player. He really muscles himself into position and gets after balls. Conley's more finesse. Chesson's also a better downfield blocker. He's a "tough guy", especially after playing under Harbaugh. IMO, Chesson comes into the league more prepared and mature to fit Reid's vision of a wideout than Conley, whose development can be seen, but has been very slow.

Best case scenario? Conley makes another jump and Chesson puts up similar, if not better, numbers than Conley in 2016. That puts the Chiefs in position to dump Maclin's bloated contract in 2018.

The Chiefs can save $17.4 million against the 2018 cap by releasing Maclin, DJ, Hali and Jah Reid, so if Mahomes isn't up to speed and ready to start in 2018 (which I think is unlikely), keeping Alex Smith for that season won't hinder their ability to rollover cap dollars into 2019 or bring in a mid-tier free agent or two.

[RunKC]

Chesson would be a complementary player for Conley if he pans out but it would happen at the expense of the 2 TE set.

If you have two big, strong WRs on the outside, they draw a lot of safety attention because if they're matched up 1 on 1, you can just attack the corner and let the bigger WR muscle his way to the ball. Guys like Conley (and guys with Chesson's skills set) are 'point of catch' players; guys that will win in tight spaces to get most of their production.

What that does is create space over the middle and underneath for quick twitch players like Hill or just straight up matchup nightmares like Kelce.

If Conley takes another step in his development (he needs to; still hasn't shown the quick twitch ability or route-running skills to win early in his routes, a vital component to this offense if he ever becomes the Z receiver), you'll simply see Chesson play the X alongside him and you'll see fewer 2 TE sets because they'll convert to a more single-back, 1 TE, 1 Y look.

And if Conley's never anything more than he is now, you probably don't want to give him that 2nd contract for $4-5 million/yr because he can't be a #1 and 2s are easier to find for cheap. Chesson could be that guy.

It's not the pick I'd have made, but you can see the philosophy behind it.

The thing about Chesson that intrigues me is his 6.70 3 cone. That is significantly better lateral agility than Conley's 7.06 time.

A tall high point WR with long arms and good hands makes perfect sense with Mahomes, however I think that just having this kid on the roster helps a lot.

They said he's mature, smart, has experience in a pro style system and a great blocker. I'all take Chesson over DAT and Wilson all day. He's great depth over what we had.

[Willie Lanier]

I'm a fan of Conley's and I like the progress he made last year.

But Chesson is a "stronger" player. He really muscles himself into position and gets after balls. Conley's more finesse. Chesson's also a better downfield blocker. He's a "tough guy", especially after playing under Harbaugh. IMO, Chesson comes into the league more prepared and mature to fit Reid's vision of a wideout than Conley, whose development can be seen, but has been very slow.

Best case scenario? Conley makes another jump and Chesson puts up similar, if not better, numbers than Conley in 2016. That puts the Chiefs in position to dump Maclin's bloated contract in 2018.

The Chiefs can save $17.4 million against the 2018 cap by releasing Maclin, DJ, Hali and Jah Reid, so if Mahomes isn't up to speed and ready to start in 2018 (which I think is unlikely), keeping Alex Smith for that season won't hinder their ability to rollover cap dollars into 2019 or bring in a mid-tier free agent or two.

Well stated...

I hope you're right...

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Now I'm worried Dat won't make the roster. Any chance Chesson has the ability to high five Hill going in.

[CoMoChief]

Now I'm worried Dat won't make the roster. Any chance Chesson has the ability to high five Hill going in.

Why are you "worried"?

What has DAT done that makes you feel as if he's worthy of a roster spot?

even Albert Wilson is better than DAT.

If I had to guess now, before training camp etc, I'd say the WR depth chart would be:

Maclin X (He needs to take a pay cut or be released in 2018, because he's turning into a overpaid unproductive pos)
Conley Y
Hill Z
Chesson
Wilson
Robinson

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Why are you "worried"?

What has DAT done that makes you feel as if he's worthy of a roster spot?

even Albert Wilson is better than DAT.

If I had to guess now, before training camp etc, I'd say the WR depth chart would be:

Maclin X (He needs to take a pay cut or be released in 2018, because he's turning into a overpaid unproductive pos)
Conley Y
Hill Z
Chesson
Wilson
Robinson

Um... He high fived Hill scoring a touchdown giving us a memorable moment. What more do you want from a guy making only $800k a year? I mean... to actually catch 1 pass a game? pffttt.

[O.city]

I'm a fan of Conley's and I like the progress he made last year.

But Chesson is a "stronger" player. He really muscles himself into position and gets after balls. Conley's more finesse. Chesson's also a better downfield blocker. He's a "tough guy", especially after playing under Harbaugh. IMO, Chesson comes into the league more prepared and mature to fit Reid's vision of a wideout than Conley, whose development can be seen, but has been very slow.

Best case scenario? Conley makes another jump and Chesson puts up similar, if not better, numbers than Conley in 2016. That puts the Chiefs in position to dump Maclin's bloated contract in 2018.

The Chiefs can save $17.4 million against the 2018 cap by releasing Maclin, DJ, Hali and Jah Reid, so if Mahomes isn't up to speed and ready to start in 2018 (which I think is unlikely), keeping Alex Smith for that season won't hinder their ability to rollover cap dollars into 2019 or bring in a mid-tier free agent or two.

Or they can cut Smith and gain 17 million from that one player. If Maclin has another down year, they'll move on, but I'd imagine they'll want as many weapons around Mahomes as they can get. Cutting Smith would allow them the $ to add a good backup and a few other decent free agent options.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Or they can cut Smith and gain 17 million from that one player. If Maclin has another down year, they'll move on, but I'd imagine they'll want as many weapons around Mahomes as they can get. Cutting Smith would allow them the $ to add a good backup and a few other decent free agent options.

The great thing being there are a number of options to clear space, when the time comes.

[Al Bundy]

In the 49ers report, I assumed the Chiefs wanted Pat at #5 because of the Jets and Chargers. They got lucky neither of them went for a QB.

As far as the Titans GM goes, who knows what to think of that. They reached on Corey Davis and maybe he doesn't want to admit they turned down trade offers that were still on the table. Or maybe he's telling the truth and Reid/Dorsey are lying about Mahomes' performance relative to the other QB's in the interview process.

Trubisky is an interesting prospect. Some say he's a safer pick than Mahomes, but I think his bust potential is just as bad and possibly worse than Mahomes. Trubisky seems like a nice kid who is in over his head based on interviews I've seen, the Gruden show where he tried to bullshit his way through a hard count and Gruden nailed him for it, etc. I think his ceiling is game manager. I could also see him turning into a mega bust. Obviously Mahomes has mega bust potential too given the flaws in his game, but he also has superstar potential on the high end.

They didn't "reach" for him... they got him right where he needed to be taken.

[Halfcan]

Glad the Chiefs did not draft Tribustky, I think he will have a short career. Fans there are already booing him and he hasn't even stepped onto the field.

[DaneMcCloud]

Or they can cut Smith and gain 17 million from that one player. If Maclin has another down year, they'll move on, but I'd imagine they'll want as many weapons around Mahomes as they can get. Cutting Smith would allow them the $ to add a good backup and a few other decent free agent options.

What's more important to the Chiefs 2018 success?

1. Releasing aging and under performing players in Maclin, DJ, Hali, Reid, Bailey and Harris to gain $17 million in cap space?

2. Releasing Alex Smith, which nets $13.4 million in cap space and starting what is essentially a rookie QB with no viable 2nd or 3rd string QB on the roster?

No offense to you personally but there is a lot of short-sightedness on CP in regards to the QB situation.

[The Franchise]

What's more important to the Chiefs 2018 success?

1. Releasing aging and under performing players in Maclin, DJ, Hali, Reid, Bailey and Harris to gain $17 million in cap space?

2. Releasing Alex Smith, which nets $13.4 million in cap space and starting what is essentially a rookie QB with no viable 2nd or 3rd string QB on the roster?

No offense to you personally but there is a lot of short-sightedness on CP in regards to the QB situation.

You want to pay your backup QB $20 million?

[DaneMcCloud]

You want to pay your backup QB $20 million?

It hasn't been established that Smith won't start the 2018 season.

I actually expect Smith the start the 2018 season at this point in time, with Mahomes taking over late in the season, especially if Smith falters.

It should also be noted that the Chiefs save approximately $11 million towards the cap in 2018 due to the trade of their first round pick, which opens up other opportunities as well.

[The Franchise]

It hasn't been established that Smith won't start the 2018 season.

I actually expect Smith the start the 2018 season at this point in time, with Mahomes taking over late in the season, especially if Smith falters.

It should also be noted that the Chiefs save approximately $11 million towards the cap in 2018 due to the trade of their first round pick, which opens up other opportunities as well.

And what happens if Mahomes beats out Smith to start 2018? Are you paying him $20 million to hold a clipboard?

[Kiimo]

Restructure.

[The Franchise]

Restructure.

No. Pay cut.

[DaneMcCloud]

And what happens if Mahomes beats out Smith to start 2018? Are you paying him $20 million to hold a clipboard?

If that happens, the Chiefs can choose to hold on to him, restructure or cut him to roll over the cap savings into 2019.

The bottom line is that there is no rush to make a decision for September 2018 in May 2017.

[DJ's left nut]

What's more important to the Chiefs 2018 success?

1. Releasing aging and under performing players in Maclin, DJ, Hali, Reid, Bailey and Harris to gain $17 million in cap space?

2. Releasing Alex Smith, which nets $13.4 million in cap space and starting what is essentially a rookie QB with no viable 2nd or 3rd string QB on the roster?

No offense to you personally but there is a lot of short-sightedness on CP in regards to the QB situation.

Ideally you do both.

Rolling $30 million into 2019 is better than rolling $17 million. It all matters.

For this pick to really be a homerun, Mahomes has to either 1) Be a genuine superstar; a top 5 caliber QB (top 10 at worst) or 2) Mahomes has to be average to slightly above average starting in 2018 so that the financial advantage of having him can accrue immediately, especially given the fact that his 5th year option won't be nearly as advantageous as someone taking at pick 11 or later would have been.

1 is a long-shot. I love Mahomes but you can't just say "X player WILL be an All-Pro"; the odds overwhelmingly suggest he won't. He may have better odds than many would, but they're still less than 50/50. So with that thin margin for error, you'd be better served betting on option 2 - Smith needs to be replaced by 2018 or this move (using two 1st rounders) will start to look pretty bad.

[Halfcan]

Ideally you do both.

Rolling $30 million into 2019 is better than rolling $17 million. It all matters.

For this pick to really be a homerun, Mahomes has to either 1) Be a genuine superstar; a top 5 caliber QB (top 10 at worst) or 2) Mahomes has to be average to slightly above average starting in 2018 so that the financial advantage of having him can accrue immediately, especially given the fact that his 5th year option won't be nearly as advantageous as someone taking at pick 11 or later would have been.

1 is a long-shot. I love Mahomes but you can't just say "X player WILL be an All-Pro"; the odds overwhelmingly suggest he won't. He may have better odds than many would, but they're still less than 50/50. So with that thin margin for error, you'd be better served betting on option 2 - Smith needs to be replaced by 2018 or this move (using two 1st rounders) will start to look pretty bad.

So you think the Chiefs moved up and drafted the first QB (1st round) in 34 years but believe he is a long shot to be a star?

Seems from their interviews- they DO think he is going to be a STAR.

[DJ's left nut]

So you think the Chiefs moved up and drafted the first QB (1st round) in 34 years but believe he is a long shot to be a star?

Seems from their interviews- they DO think he is going to be a STAR.

I suspect if you got Andy or Dorsey drunk and asked them to give you a number, they'd put it at less than 50% likely that he's an All-Pro caliber QB.

But they think there's a chance that he becomes that kind of player. And a better chance than many of the guys they've looked at in the past. To their eyes, that chance was good enough to take the risk.

I think NFL guys are far more 'eyes wide open' than we tend to give them credit for. Oh sure, they're confident, but every now and then you get an interview from them with complete candor and they'll let you know that sometimes their best laid plans just don't work and they know that's a possibility.

Andy and Dorsey spent this capital on Mahomes because in him they see a CHANCE that he's a star. And let's look at Dorsey's history - he's HUGE on ceiling. Ford and Fisher were both extremely raw, high risk players that they gambled on. Dorsey finally ended up in a position where that kind of guy, one that fit nicely into his 'decision lens' was attainable so he got him. But yeah, he knows there's a chance that it doesn't work.

[DaneMcCloud]

Ideally you do both.

Rolling $30 million into 2019 is better than rolling $17 million. It all matters.

Agreed

For this pick to really be a homerun, Mahomes has to either 1) Be a genuine superstar; a top 5 caliber QB (top 10 at worst) or 2) Mahomes has to be average to slightly above average starting in 2018 so that the financial advantage of having him can accrue immediately, especially given the fact that his 5th year option won't be nearly as advantageous as someone taking at pick 11 or later would have been.

1 is a long-shot. I love Mahomes but you can't just say "X player WILL be an All-Pro"; the odds overwhelmingly suggest he won't. He may have better odds than many would, but they're still less than 50/50. So with that thin margin for error, you'd be better served betting on option 2 - Smith needs to be replaced by 2018 or this move (using two 1st rounders) will start to look pretty bad.

And this is the whole thing: No one knows.

Sure, Reid, Dorsey and Hunt did all the research on the guy, feel he has the potential to be a very good to great player and Mahomes has an excellent bloodline of professional sports in his lineage.

But no one can absolutely state that he's a "Franchise QB", future HOFer (which is pretty much what you need to be a consistent Super Bowl winner and threat) and that he'll unequivocally be ready to lead the Chiefs franchise to 10+ wins in 2018.

It's an educated guess.

But the thing that really stands out to me, at least with 90% of CP members, is that they're forgetting about the journey that several of the highest drafted players currently on the Chiefs roster took before realizing their potential.

It took Derrick Johnson six years before he lived up to his draft expectations and took Tamba Hali five full years before registering 10+ sacks. Eric Berry is still growing as a player! It took Jamaal Charles a few seasons until he was able to be a consistent threat. Dee Ford was considered a "bust" by most of CP (not me, of course) before breaking out in 2016 (his third season) with double digit sacks. Eric Fisher is still ascending and his best years are ahead of him (the same was with Chris Jones and Mitch Morse and LDT, etc.).

The bottom line is that you're absolutely correct, especially in regards to John Dorsey, in that he drafts players as projections for their ceiling, and not finished products.

[RunKC]

Agreed



And this is the whole thing: No one knows.

Sure, Reid, Dorsey and Hunt did all the research on the guy, feel he has the potential to be a very good to great player and Mahomes has an excellent bloodline of professional sports in his lineage.

But no one can absolutely state that he's a "Franchise QB", future HOFer (which is pretty much what you need to be a consistent Super Bowl winner and threat) and that he'll unequivocally be ready to lead the Chiefs franchise to 10+ wins in 2018.

It's an educated guess.

But the thing that really stands out to me, at least with 90% of CP members, is that they're forgetting about the journey that several of the highest drafted players currently on the Chiefs roster took before realizing their potential.

It took Derrick Johnson six years before he lived up to his draft expectations and took Tamba Hali five full years before registering 10+ sacks. Eric Berry is still growing as a player! It took Jamaal Charles a few seasons until he was able to be a consistent threat. Dee Ford was considered a "bust" by most of CP (not me, of course) before breaking out in 2016 (his third season) with double digit sacks. Eric Fisher is still ascending and his best years are ahead of him (the same was with Chris Jones and Mitch Morse and LDT, etc.).

The bottom line is that you're absolutely correct, especially in regards to John Dorsey, in that he drafts players as projections for their ceiling, and not finished products.

I think it really depends. If the kid is looking good in preseason and through the season on the scout team and shows the ability to understand enough of the playbook to satisfy Andy, why not roll with him in 2018?

[O.city]

What's more important to the Chiefs 2018 success?

1. Releasing aging and under performing players in Maclin, DJ, Hali, Reid, Bailey and Harris to gain $17 million in cap space?

2. Releasing Alex Smith, which nets $13.4 million in cap space and starting what is essentially a rookie QB with no viable 2nd or 3rd string QB on the roster?

No offense to you personally but there is a lot of short-sightedness on CP in regards to the QB situation.

DJ pretty much laid it out here about the rookie qb contract so I'll leave that there.

If Mahomes isn't ready to go by the start of next season, somethings gone wrong imo, in that it's essentially signaling that he's not where they expect him to be based on the alignment of Smith's contract.

If they want to keep smith in that situation, they'd need to restructure imo.

From over the cap it looks like cutting smith nets them 17 mil, where are you getting the 13.4?

[DaneMcCloud]

If Mahomes isn't ready to go by the start of next season, somethings gone wrong imo, in that it's essentially signaling that he's not where they expect him to be based on the alignment of Smith's contract.

There could be many reasons why the Chiefs head into 2018 with Smith as the starter. Hell, the same thing happened with Kaepernick. Smith led the 49ers to a 6-2 record, had a concussion and Kaepernick led them to the Super Bowl.

I could envision the same thing happening in KC (minus the Super Bowl, because Chiefs) if Mahomes isn't ready Week 1.

Keep in mind, while Mahomes will run the scout team in 2017, he'll spend very little time, if any, with the #1 offense. Andy Reid has already said that he won't be splitting time with Smith & Mahomes with the 1's.

If they want to keep smith in that situation, they'd need to restructure imo.

I just don't see it that way. The salary cap will be even higher in 2018 and there's no reason to just outright cut Alex Smith, especially before the season starts.

What if a similar situation that happened in Minnesota last year arises in 2018 and the Chiefs can turn Smith into a Day One pick?

I think vitriolic hatred of Smith in this forum is blinding people to that fact that Mahomes may not be ready and that Smith isn't as worthless as the majority believes.

From over the cap it looks like cutting smith nets them 17 mil, where are you getting the 13.4?

Eh, I looked at it wrong.

[O.city]

There could be many reasons why the Chiefs head into 2018 with Smith as the starter. Hell, the same thing happened with Kaepernick. Smith led the 49ers to a 6-2 record, had a concussion and Kaepernick led them to the Super Bowl.

I could envision the same thing happening in KC (minus the Super Bowl, because Chiefs) if Mahomes isn't ready Week 1.

Keep in mind, while Mahomes will run the scout team in 2017, he'll spend very little time, if any, with the #1 offense. Andy Reid has already said that he won't be splitting time with Smith & Mahomes with the 1's.



I just don't see it that way. The salary cap will be even higher in 2018 and there's no reason to just outright cut Alex Smith, especially before the season starts.

What if a similar situation that happened in Minnesota last year arises in 2018 and the Chiefs can turn Smith into a Day One pick?

I think vitriolic hatred of Smith in this forum is blinding people to that fact that Mahomes may not be ready and that Smith isn't as worthless as the majority believes.



Eh, I looked at it wrong.


He's not worthless at all, I'm not for sure but what they won't try and trade him and get a pick.

But 17 mill is a shit ton of cap gain, especially for a team up against it and with alot of young players coming due soon. Seems like a waste to hold on to him just in the off chance something like that hapoens.

[O.city]

If they're gonna go with Mahomes though, he needs to be put in the best situation he can be early, and that money would go along way in acquiring talent

[DJ's left nut]

I just don't see it that way. The salary cap will be even higher in 2018 and there's no reason to just outright cut Alex Smith, especially before the season starts.

What if a similar situation that happened in Minnesota last year arises in 2018 and the Chiefs can turn Smith into a Day One pick?

I think vitriolic hatred of Smith in this forum is blinding people to that fact that Mahomes may not be ready and that Smith isn't as worthless as the majority believes.


"No reason to just outright cut..."

Sure there is - if you believe Mahomes can give you average play at the position, you cut Smith. That's it. You don't pay for a $17 million backup quarterback. The opportunity cost is far too great.

And while I don't know how guaranteed salaries work, I know veterans get a kicker on the guarantees if they're on the roster as of a certain date. I think it's something like 6 weeks guaranteed if they're on the Roster on in mid-summer. I don't remember it exactly but if you don't cut Smith pre-season, you're paying a $2 million roster bonus and I'm betting a fairly substantial portion of his contract. Moreover, that's a monsterously dick move as he'd be unable to get a contract elsewhere if you cut him in July. You don't do that to a loyal veteran QB that's been nothing but a good soldier here.

If Mahomes shows any indications that he's ready, you do the right thing for both sides and you move on from Smith before the start of the 2018 league year in March. If that means trade him for a nominal asset - great. If it means cut him, that's fine, too.

[DaneMcCloud]

If they're gonna go with Mahomes though, he needs to be put in the best situation he can be early, and that money would go along way in acquiring talent

The thing is though, that's not how Dorsey works (and when he's done that, it's worked against him).

The Dwayne Bowe extension was awful. Dorsey didn't need to give Maclin $13 million a year, IMO, and that bit them in the ass last year and will likely do so again this year. He's on the downside, for sure.

Joe Mays, Donnie Avery, Anthony Fasano, Vance Walker, Jeff Linkenbach, Dunta Robinson - that's just a partial list. While they've certainly done well developing waiver wire acquisitions, the record in free agency has been poor.

I hold out hope that Bennie Logan returns to his 2015 form because $8 million is quite a bit for one year.

[DJ's left nut]

He's not worthless at all, I'm not for sure but what they won't try and trade him and get a pick.

But 17 mill is a shit ton of cap gain, especially for a team up against it and with alot of young players coming due soon. Seems like a waste to hold on to him just in the off chance something like that hapoens.

Look at it this way - keeping Smith costs you $3 million in AAV on Peters inevitable 5-6 year deal. That $17.5 million in rollover means you've effectively turned the $16 million/yr deal you'd have to give Peters and turned it into a $13 million/yr deal.

Unless Mahomes just keeps stepping on his dick, you can't keep Smith. I'm serious - if Mahomes shows ANYTHING, you have to move on. It hurts the roster too much elsewhere to do otherwise.

[DaneMcCloud]

"No reason to just outright cut..."

Sure there is - if you believe Mahomes can give you average play at the position, you cut Smith. That's it. You don't pay for a $17 million backup quarterback. The opportunity cost is far too great.

Even IF there's that possibility, they'd be better off keeping Smith until just before Week 1 at his current salary, just in case there's a possible trade.

As for my understanding, Smith's $14.6 million dollar salary won't guaranteed until Week 1 of the season, so while they might take a gamble on his roster bonus and workout bonus ($2.5), they'd still eat his prorated $3.6, regardless of when he's cut.

Peter King mentioned this morning that in 2011, QB's when 8-10-12 (Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder). Only Gabbert's still in the league and that's as a Vet Min backup with the Cards.

It's a long ways into the future and no one knows what the future holds. Expecting Mahomes to be ready Week 1 to take over and lead this team to double digit wins and the playoffs is setting up very high expectations, IMO, especially when the kid hasn't taken an NFL snap.

[O.city]

Even IF there's that possibility, they'd be better off keeping Smith until just before Week 1 at his current salary, just in case there's a possible trade.

As for my understanding, Smith's $14.6 million dollar salary won't guaranteed until Week 1 of the season, so while they might take a gamble on his roster bonus and workout bonus ($2.5), they'd still eat his prorated $3.6, regardless of when he's cut.

Peter King mentioned this morning that in 2011, QB's when 8-10-12 (Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder). Only Gabbert's still in the league and that's as a Vet Min backup with the Cards.

It's a long ways into the future and no one knows what the future holds. Expecting Mahomes to be ready Week 1 to take over and lead this team to double digit wins and the playoffs is setting up very high expectations, IMO, especially when the kid hasn't taken an NFL snap.

After a season on the bench? I don't think that's too high of expectations.

[DaneMcCloud]

After a season on the bench? I don't think that's too high of expectations.

And yet before the Chiefs drafted him, you thought this:

After watching more of Mahomes, I don't think I'd take him before the 3rd. He's a long ways off.

I would really like to get a young stud at ilb to grow with the rest of the young d.

:D

[O.city]

And yet before the Chiefs drafted him, you thought this:



:D

I was distancing myself from the eventual letdown that is chiefs football. ROFL

Even with that, the front office traded quite a bit and took a big risk to go up and get him. If he's 2 years away from being ready to play, I question whether he was worth trading up that high for.

[DaneMcCloud]

I was distancing myself from the eventual letdown that is chiefs football. ROFL

Even with that, the front office traded quite a bit and took a big risk to go up and get him. If he's 2 years away from being ready to play, I question whether he was worth trading up that high for.

As long as he becomes what they think he'll become, I don't care if he sits 24 or 32 games.

In terms of the compensation, I thought it was an absolute bargain. A third and a one? That's a pittance if he becomes a perennial Pro Bowl/All Pro QB.

[RippedmyFlesh]

As long as he becomes what they think he'll become, I don't care if he sits 24 or 32 games.

In terms of the compensation, I thought it was an absolute bargain. A third and a one? That's a pittance if he becomes a perennial Pro Bowl/All Pro QB.

If he is above average for what they payed its worth it.
People don't understand that draft capitol is more valuable than actual
cash. Some of these owners would spend 3x as much if they could.
It was a brilliant move to shoot for an all pro without mortgaging the
future.

[jaa1025]

They thought Mahomes was going earlier than he did, which I believe they did comment on that. I don't think there was any interest, but it's based purely on speculation.

[Halfcan]

In the 49ers report, I assumed the Chiefs wanted Pat at #5 because of the Jets and Chargers. They got lucky neither of them went for a QB.

As far as the Titans GM goes, who knows what to think of that. They reached on Corey Davis and maybe he doesn't want to admit they turned down trade offers that were still on the table. Or maybe he's telling the truth and Reid/Dorsey are lying about Mahomes' performance relative to the other QB's in the interview process.

Trubisky is an interesting prospect. Some say he's a safer pick than Mahomes, but I think his bust potential is just as bad and possibly worse than Mahomes. Trubisky seems like a nice kid who is in over his head based on interviews I've seen, the Gruden show where he tried to bullshit his way through a hard count and Gruden nailed him for it, etc. I think his ceiling is game manager. I could also see him turning into a mega bust. Obviously Mahomes has mega bust potential too given the flaws in his game, but he also has superstar potential on the high end.


I think Tribisky going to Chicago will increase his odds of a short career. DaBear fans have already booed him in public and are still comatose from watching Cutler all those years. If you have ever been to a game at Soldier field- the fans are obnoxious, impatient and will start calling for his benching after the first interception.

[Urc Burry]

If you saw how fired up Dorsey was in the war room then it would be obvious that Mahomes was their guy

[Bewbies]

I'd like to know the info Dorsey got to know he didn't need to go to 5...

[The Franchise]

I'd like to know the info Dorsey got to know he didn't need to go to 5...

They had Dorsey on SiriusXM a couple of weeks ago and he talked about how they had only talked to the Bills about trading up to #10. They knew that was how high they had wanted to go to get him. They had a deal in place and they called the Bills at every pick to make sure that the deal was still good.

Made it to #5? Called the Bills.
Made it to #6? Called the Bills.
Made it to #10? Called the Bills and agreed on the deal.

[ModSocks]

They had Dorsey on SiriusXM a couple of weeks ago and he talked about how they had only talked to the Bills about trading up to #10. They knew that was how high they had wanted to go to get him. They had a deal in place and they called the Bills at every pick to make sure that the deal was still good.

Made it to #5? Called the Bills.
Made it to #6? Called the Bills.
Made it to #10? Called the Bills and agreed on the deal.

I thought i had heard/read that they also had a deal in place with another team picking top 10, but Dorsey bet that he'd be there at 10 and wouldn't last longer than 10. He gambled and won.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought i had heard/read that they also had a deal in place with another team picking top 10, but Dorsey bet that he'd be there at 10 and wouldn't last longer than 10. He gambled and won.

The 49ers piece said that the Chiefs had a deal in place to move up to the Jets pick, IIRC.

But Dorsey himself has said that he had a gentlemen's agreement struck with the Bills over a week before the draft and when the 10 spot made it up, they pulled the trigger per their prior conversations.

it was some stealth ninja shit from Dorsey. If it don't work, it don't work, but it was a masterful job getting the guy he wanted.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I love the Dorsey philosophy. I can't believe how utterly sad the GM position for the Chiefs has been when you contrast what Dorsey has done and continues to do with the other GM's that came before him; it's practically criminal in its neglect.

I initially liked Trubiski the best out of the class as he seemed to be the closest candidate to a traditional, pocket QB. But there's no way he is worth what KC would have had to give up to get him at #5. That's Darnold-level shit right there.
If you had asked me who the least likely candidate for Chiefs QB in this draft would be, I would have said Mahomes as he is 180 degrees in his game from what one normally associates with a conservative coach like Andy.
I also said that Mahomes is exactly the kind of QB Reid needs; a QB with the ability to offset Reid's weaknesses and vice-versa. It's a perfect fit, and I see no reason that Pat and Andy can not in due time deliver a championship to KC.
This is easily set up to be the best era in Chiefs football since the late 60's.

Did the Chiefs want Trubiski?
No.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

They got the best QB in this draft....better than last year's draft too.

[RunKC]

They got the best QB in this draft....better than last year's draft too.

Slow your roll. Carson Wentz is gonna be a great QB for a long time.

[DaneMcCloud]

Slow your roll. Carson Wentz is gonna be a great QB for a long time.

Dak Prescott's pretty good, too

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Dorsey got interviewed on some show, can't recall which one, and said that there were other people in the war room who were wanting him to go up to #5 to make sure they got Pat. That is how bad the people in the room wanted him.

Dorsey said that he felt 10 was for sure the spot to get him, so he waited and struck then.

[DJ's left nut]

Fucking. Ninja.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Dorsey got interviewed on some show, can't recall which one, and said that there were other people in the war room who were wanting him to go up to #5 to make sure they got Pat. That is how bad the people in the room wanted him.

Dorsey said that he felt 10 was for sure the spot to get him, so he waited and struck then.

Gat DAMN that gives me a hard-on.

[Dave Lane]

It's time to unleash the beast cut Alex now I'm so excited I'm standing here beside myself

[DaneMcCloud]

It's time to unleash the beast cut Alex now I'm so excited I'm standing here beside myself

LMAO

The fucking guy was picked off by a scrub today.

He has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before he's an NFL starting QB

Chill, peeps.

[Dave Lane]

LMAO

The ****ing guy was picked off by a scrub today.

He has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before he's an NFL starting QB

Chill, peeps.

Don't harsh my buzz brother :D

[DaneMcCloud]

Don't harsh my buzz brother :D

:D

[ct]

Agreed



And this is the whole thing: No one knows.

Sure, Reid, Dorsey and Hunt did all the research on the guy, feel he has the potential to be a very good to great player and Mahomes has an excellent bloodline of professional sports in his lineage.

But no one can absolutely state that he's a "Franchise QB", future HOFer (which is pretty much what you need to be a consistent Super Bowl winner and threat) and that he'll unequivocally be ready to lead the Chiefs franchise to 10+ wins in 2018.

It's an educated guess.

But the thing that really stands out to me, at least with 90% of CP members, is that they're forgetting about the journey that several of the highest drafted players currently on the Chiefs roster took before realizing their potential.

It took Derrick Johnson six years before he lived up to his draft expectations and took Tamba Hali five full years before registering 10+ sacks. Eric Berry is still growing as a player! It took Jamaal Charles a few seasons until he was able to be a consistent threat. Dee Ford was considered a "bust" by most of CP (not me, of course) before breaking out in 2016 (his third season) with double digit sacks. Eric Fisher is still ascending and his best years are ahead of him (the same was with Chris Jones and Mitch Morse and LDT, etc.).

The bottom line is that you're absolutely correct, especially in regards to John Dorsey, in that he drafts players as projections for their ceiling, and not finished products.

This last part of your post is what gets me so psyched about this years draft class. More than any other draft of dorsey's, this is a pure draft with the projection in mind, and also captures his eye for the sliding prospects not in the mainstream hype machine (mahomes excluded from that last point).

Mahomes - cross hairs in the hype machine but everybody knows it's the ceiling projection for our qbotf
K-pass - huge athletic potential (ala chris jones) but limited experience and fundamentals
Hunt - might be the exception of the projection pick, maybe not the ginormous ceiling with him but most do expect this pick to be solid lunch pail RB
Chesson - showed big potential before injury and didn't get back to that level his last year
Eligwe - another problem case bumped from D1 to small school, big time athletic profile
Mcquay - well this one seems to be a decent late round flyer, but he comes into a very crowded defensive backfield with a lot of other young guys