Best draft picks by Round - Round 1

[Rain Man]

I'll switch this up a little. Before posting my top 10 list, I'll start from the bottom, revealing in reverse order all 56 of the Chiefs' 1st round picks over the years. Then I'll put the top ten in this OP and put up the poll.

Feel free to share your memories, happiness, or disgust at each pick. I'll post one whenever I'm slightly bored.

#1 Buck Buchanan, DT
#2 Tony Gonzalez, TE
#3 Derrick Thomas, ROLB
#4 Ed Budde, LG
#5 Eric Berry, SS
#6 Gary Green, CB
#7 Derrick Johnson, ILB, OLB
#8 Art Still, DE
#9 E.J. Holub, OLB/C
#10 Tamba Hali, OLB/DE

[Rain Man]

#56. Ronnie Bull, 1962, RB. #3 pick (AFL).

He was also drafted by the Bears in the NFL and he went there instead. He actually lasted quite a while in the NFL, 9 seasons with the Bears and 1 with the Eagles. Over 3,200 yards rushing at a 3.7 pace and almost 1,500 yards receiving. Never made the pro bowl, though, and never put on a Chiefs uniform, so he was a total bust. He was replaced as the Bears' halfback by Gale Sayers, and moved to fullback.

Here's a little info about Ronnie Bull if you can briefly tolerate the Chicago Tribune's annoying popups.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-bears-ronnie-bull-spt-0210-20150207-story.html

[Rain Man]

#55, Gale Sayers, 1965. #5 pick (AFL).

Our two worst-ever first-round picks were stolen by the Bears. Injury-prone running back who only played four years with less than 5,000 career rushing yards and about 1,300 receiving yards. Had a good rookie season and second season that he rode for the rest of his career and into the Hall of Fame. But he never put on a Chiefs uniform, for the simple reason that he said he would prefer to live in Chicago over Kansas City.

[Rain Man]

#54. Ethan Horton, 1985. #15 pick.

Wow. Just wow. I remembered he was a bust, but ... wow.

Drafted by the Chiefs. Runs for 146 yards his rookie year at a 3.0 ypc, and catches 28 passes. Slow start for a rookie.

He then got cut in training camp his second year.

Cut.

In.

Training.

Camp.

What on earth happened to cut a 1st round pick in training camp his second year?

The guy's out of football for year, then the Raiders pick him up in 1987 as a strike scab running back and cut him 8 games later. They bring him back for training camp the next year and cut him, and he's out of football again for another full year.

Then in 1989 the Raiders bring him in, bulk him up, and put him at tight end where he plays for six years and even makes a pro bowl. He ended up having an 8-year NFL career that's not terrible with about 2,400 yards receiving, but what happened those first few years? He clearly wasn't a running back with less than 300 yards rushing at a 3.1 ypc,

Here's an NY Times article about him from 1991: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/15/sports/pro-football-horton-finds-a-home-as-a-raider.html.

Seems like a decent enough guy. He felt like KC didn't give him a fair chance, bringing him into a passing-oriented offense and not giving him many carries. But he busted as a running back with the Raiders, too.

I remember being very skeptical when he was drafted that a 6-4 running back could thrive in the NFL. He was a pick that I wasn't a big fan of.

[ndws]

#54. Ethan Horton, 1985. #15 pick.



The Sam Bowie of the NFL

[Bowser]

Ethan Horton was a thorn in the side of the Chiefs for a couple of years. As was Harvey Williams.

[Rain Man]

The Sam Bowie of the NFL

Heh. I meant to mention that. He went #15, and the #16 pick was Jerry Rice. Dammit, Carl!

[rico]

#54. Ethan Horton, 1985. #15 pick.

Wow. Just wow. I remembered he was a bust, but ... wow.

Drafted by the Chiefs. Runs for 146 yards his rookie year at a 3.0 ypc, and catches 28 passes. Slow start for a rookie.

He then got cut in training camp his second year.

Cut.

In.

Training.

Camp.

What on earth happened to cut a 1st round pick in training camp his second year?

The guy's out of football for year, then the Raiders pick him up in 1987 as a strike scab running back and cut him 8 games later. They bring him back for training camp the next year and cut him, and he's out of football again for another full year.

Then in 1989 the Raiders bring him in, bulk him up, and put him at tight end where he plays for six years and even makes a pro bowl. He ended up having an 8-year NFL career that's not terrible with about 2,400 yards receiving, but what happened those first few years? He clearly wasn't a running back with less than 300 yards rushing at a 3.1 ypc,

Here's an NY Times article about him from 1991: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/15/sports/pro-football-horton-finds-a-home-as-a-raider.html.

Seems like a decent enough guy. He felt like KC didn't give him a fair chance, bringing him into a passing-oriented offense and not giving him many carries. But he busted as a running back with the Raiders, too.

I remember being very skeptical when he was drafted that a 6-4 running back could thrive in the NFL. He was a pick that I wasn't a big fan of.

That's interesting as hell! Didn't know that!!!

[Rain Man]

#53 - Gene Trosch, 1967, DE. #24 pick.

Gene is a huge mystery. He was drafted in the first round of the draft where Willie Lanier and Jim Lynch were the second round picks. He's listed on the roster in 1967, but not 1968, and then he's back in 1969. Was he injured? On the taxi squad? Had he been cut? I have no idea. He was apparently in 27 games during the two years he was on the active roster, though I can't find any stats.

I saw some newspaper archive that says the Dolphins picked him up, but he doesn't show up on their roster. And then his obituary says that he had a 12-year NFL career that included the Bengals and the Saints, though I don't see any documentation anywhere of him playing for anyone but the Chiefs: http://valhallafuneralhome.com/book-of-memories/1425269/Eugene-Trosch/obituary.php. I also don't see him listed on the roster of the WFL team listed in his obituary: http://www.justsportsstats.com/footballroster.php?team=WFLBIA&year=1974. I don't know what's going on there and won't speculate.

One thing for sure is that he won a Super Bowl. At the 0:58 second mark, you see him whapping Jim Tyrer's shoulder pads in the pre-game: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d8111b5b7/Top-Ten-Biggest-Upsets-Super-Bowl-IV

There's a Facebook page for him that I think was set up by a daughter or something: https://www.facebook.com/Eugene-Big-Gene-Trosch-151785174867024/. She was proud of his Chiefs years, obviously, and maybe he was, too. It seems that he must've had fond memories.

So where was he in 1968? I'm really curious.

Also, here's a very mysterious youtube video that shows you how to pronounce his name:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W5au5x0iq0Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rain Man]

#52. Trezelle (not Leroy) Jenkins, 1995. 31st pick.

It seemed like Marty and Carl could find linemen, so I have no idea where this pick came from. Trezelle was with the team for 3 seasons, but appeared in only 9 games and had 1 start in his career. I can't find any information about what happened to him, other than a comment in a book that the Chiefs "realized that he wasn't a very good player and soured on him quickly".

Here's a photo of a game-worn Trezelle Jenkins jersey. These are really, really rare for obvious reasons. It can be yours for $300. http://www.gamewornuniforms.com/catalog/trezellejenkins-p-2663.php

http://www.gamewornuniforms.com/catalog/images/199674trezellejenkinsredchiefswilsongold48.JPG

[jjchieffan]

Trezelle Jenkins. Yep, that was a bad one. We should be seeing Ryan Sims and Tyson Jackson soon. Not to mention Todd Blackledge.

[rico]

A lot of times, when I say, "Barry Richardson is the worst Chiefs player I've ever watched," I will get the response, "you obviously don't remember much about Trezelle Jenkins." And truth is, I don't remember much about him. I think I was like a Freshman in HS when we drafted him... I was real "checked out" for a few years around that age in terms of following the NFL. He was that bad, eh?

[mcaj22]

Jon Baldwin has to be in the on deck circle

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

#55, Gale Sayers, 1965. #5 pick (AFL).

Our two worst-ever first-round picks were stolen by the Bears. Injury-prone running back who only played four years with less than 5,000 career rushing yards and about 1,300 receiving yards. Had a good rookie season and second season that he rode for the rest of his career and into the Hall of Fame. But he never put on a Chiefs uniform, for the simple reason that he said he would prefer to live in Chicago over Kansas City.

WoW ! Never realized we drafted Gale sayers.

[rico]

Jon Baldwin has to be in the on deck circle

Man, that behind the back catch he made vs. the Donks was really cool. I was definitely on that hype train.

[Rain Man]

Jon Baldwin has to be in the on deck circle

He's battling for his life right now.

[Rain Man]

#51. Sid Smith, 1970, C. 26th pick.

Maybe those glory-era Chiefs were so good that even 1st rounders couldn't crack the lineup. Sid is one of those. Drafted as a center, presumably due to the retirement of E.J. Holub and an injury to a previously drafted young center named Jack Rudnay, Smith may have been victimized by Rudnay's recovery and emergence as a pro bowler.

But regardless, he didn't stick. They tried to move him around on the line, but with no luck. He was with the team for three seasons, got one start, had great seats on the bench to watch the Christmas 1971 game, and then was gone after the 1972 season. In a short-lived players strike in 1974 he returned to the NFL with the Oilers, but didn't last the season.

It seems like he wasn't a high-risk pick as an All-American, and he was notably larger than Rudnay, so who knows?

https://img.comc.com/i/Football/1988/Winners-USC-Trojans---Base/SSMM/Sid-Smith-Marv-Montgomery.jpg?id=37d2674d-1f8f-45f1-899b-fdd35428cd61&size=zoom

Here's an interesting fact about Sid, though. He actually caught a pass in an NFL game, on Monday Night Football and from Lenny Dawson. It wasn't exactly a Joe Valerio touchdown grab, though, and it sounds like it almost cost the Chiefs a field goal, but hey, he caught it. Here's the paraphrased story, from this site: https://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2014_12_06_archive.html

It was the Chiefs versus the 49ers on Monday Night at Candlestick Park. As the first half came to a close, the Chiefs were up 13 to 10. With a minute left in the half, they punted to the 49ers, but on the next play Emmitt Thomas intercepted a pass and ran it back to the San Francisco 17. The clock was down to 12 seconds as the Chiefs lined up for a field goal, but Dawson instead passed to OT Sid Smith, an eligible receiver, and on the last play of the half Stenerud kicked a field goal for real from 12 yards out to make the halftime score 16-10. The Chiefs eventually won 26-17.

And that, my friends, is the story that Sid Smith probably still talks about today.

[Rain Man]

#50. Brian Jozwiak, 1986. G. 7th pick.

In 1986 I was getting ready to graduate from college. The internet was still several years off and I didn't follow college football, so I could only read reviews of drafts.

All of the reviews - ALL of them - said that Jozwiak was a no-brainer pick. They said he should walk into the starting lineup and stay there for a decade.

Instead, he had three years in the league, and he made three starts during the time. Then he was gone, like a ghost in the night. The no-brainer pick was a whiff.

Looking back, it appears that he had a long-term hip problem that had gone undiagnosed. According to this book by a former West Virginia coach, https://books.google.com/books?id=b8PWARIzUiQC&pg=PA111&dq=%22brian+jozwiak%22,+hip&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-852o0-nUAhUH6oMKHYFfAVEQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=%22brian%20jozwiak%22%2C%20hip&f=false, Jozwiak's senior year was hampered by what they thought was a groin injury, but the coach said that it was the hip problem starting to manifest itself.

So Jozwiak wasn't really a bad draft choice. He was a good draft choice who had an undiagnosed medical issue that showed up at the worst time for the Chiefs.

I can't even find a picture of Brian as a Chief, so here's a great advertisement that spells his name two different ways in the same ad:

http://www.biggerfasterstronger.com/uploads2/86_Nov_14.jpg

[Rasputin]

#50. Brian Jozwiak, 1986. G.

In 1986 I was getting ready to graduate from college. The internet was still several years off and I didn't follow college football, so I could only read reviews of drafts.

All of the reviews - ALL of them - said that Jozwiak was a no-brainer pick. They said he should walk into the starting lineup and stay there for a decade.

Instead, he had three years in the league, and he made three starts during the time. Then he was gone, like a ghost in the night. The no-brainer pick was a whiff.

Looking back, it appears that he had a long-term hip problem that had gone undiagnosed. According to this book by a former West Virginia coach, https://books.google.com/books?id=b8PWARIzUiQC&pg=PA111&dq=%22brian+jozwiak%22,+hip&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-852o0-nUAhUH6oMKHYFfAVEQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=%22brian%20jozwiak%22%2C%20hip&f=false, Jozwiak's senior year was hampered by what they thought was a groin injury, but the coach said that it was the hip problem starting to manifest itself.

So Jozwiak wasn't really a bad draft choice. He was a good draft choice who had an undiagnosed medical issue that showed up at the worst time for the Chiefs.

I can't even find a picture of Brian as a Chief, so here's a great advertisement that spells his name two different ways in the same ad:

http://www.biggerfasterstronger.com/uploads2/86_Nov_14.jpg

Damn looks like a brute. Its a shame he had hip problems and didn't work out I bet he beast in college though.

[Pitt Gorilla]

#52. Trezelle (not Leroy) Jenkins, 1995. 31st pick.

It seemed like Marty and Carl could find linemen, so I have no idea where this pick came from. Trezelle was with the team for 3 seasons, but appeared in only 9 games and had 1 start in his career. I can't find any information about what happened to him, other than a comment in a book that the Chiefs "realized that he wasn't a very good player and soured on him quickly".

Here's a photo of a game-worn Trezelle Jenkins jersey. These are really, really rare for obvious reasons. It can be yours for $300. http://www.gamewornuniforms.com/catalog/trezellejenkins-p-2663.php

http://www.gamewornuniforms.com/catalog/images/199674trezellejenkinsredchiefswilsongold48.JPGJenkins was the result of a trade down. Dammit, Carl. :cuss:

[DaneMcCloud]

#52. Trezelle (not Leroy) Jenkins, 1995. 31st pick.

It seemed like Marty and Carl could find linemen, so I have no idea where this pick came from. Trezelle was with the team for 3 seasons, but appeared in only 9 games and had 1 start in his career. I can't find any information about what happened to him, other than a comment in a book that the Chiefs "realized that he wasn't a very good player and soured on him quickly".

Here's a photo of a game-worn Trezelle Jenkins jersey. These are really, really rare for obvious reasons. It can be yours for $300.

Art Shell, who was the Chiefs offensive line coach at the time, convinced Carl he could turn Jenkins into an All Pro.

Shell was fired after the 1996 season.

[Rain Man]

Damn looks like a brute. Its a shame he had hip problems and didn't work out I bet he beast in college though.

Honestly, he may be my most disappointing 1st round pick, because he seemed to have a really high ceiling and a really high floor. If he was a beast, it would've helped Blackledge as well, so it was a double treat to draft him.

I wonder if his hip condition would've been caught in today's draft process.

[Rasputin]

Honestly, he may be my most disappointing 1st round pick, because he seemed to have a really high ceiling and a really high floor. If he was a beast, it would've helped Blackledge as well, so it was a double treat to draft him.

I wonder if his hip condition would've been caught in today's draft process.

He must of been our Tony Mandarich that's who I was thinking of when I read all that.

[milkman]

WoW ! Never realized we drafted Gale sayers.

The Dallas Texans also drafted Don Meredith.

[Rain Man]

#49. Rod Walters, Guard, 1976. 14th pick.

You'll see Walters listed sometimes as one of the worst first-round guard picks ever. I remember nothing about him.

He was drafted in 1976, then missed the entire 1977 season with an injury. He was back in 1978 and 1979, then got cut mid-season in 1980. Overall, he was active for 52 games and got 7 starts. He had very short stints with the Lions and Dolphins in 1980, and then drifted away from the NFL.

He lost his job because as a first-round pick he couldn't replace Tom Condon and Bob Simmons at the guard spots. If you couldn't make the team in the late 1970s, you're a bona fide bust. Sorry, Rod.

I can't find any pictures of Rod in a game, but I think he's #76 in this 1976 team photo. These were the years that the team wasn't even organized enough to take a team photo lined up in numerical order.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/football/nfl/img22314372.jpg

Apparently he participated in the 1970s afro trend when he was playing at Iowa.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/images/2016/6/1//p-rodwalters.jpg

[rico]

Honestly, he may be my most disappointing 1st round pick, because he seemed to have a really high ceiling and a really high floor. If he was a beast, it would've helped Blackledge as well, so it was a double treat to draft him.

I wonder if his hip condition would've been caught in today's draft process.

I wonder if he had what I have.

I dinged up my hip in wrestling practice my Junior year of college and when I went to the doctor, I was expecting to be told that I had a labral tear...well, I did get this news, but there was more. It was a labral tear brought on by hip dysplasia... I had hip dysplasia my entire life, and at that point had wrestled for 15 years and played baseball, football, track, etc. growing up and I never found out that I had that until my freaking Junior year of college. I should have had leg braces as a kid.

I have a scar the size and shape of a boomerang across my right hip from surgery. They performed a Ganz osteotomy to fix it... They cut my right pelvis into 3 pieces, reformed and restructured it, cut the ball off my femur, relocated it via screws and then reformed my entire hip. My hip has felt wonderful since, but I never wrestled competitively again.

[Rain Man]

I wonder if he had what I have.

I dinged up my hip in wrestling practice my Junior year of college and when I went to the doctor, I was expecting to be told that I had a labral tear...well, I did get this news, but there was more. It was a labral tear brought on by hip dysplasia... I had hip dysplasia my entire life, and at that point had wrestled for 15 years and played baseball, football, track, etc. growing up and I never found out that I had that until my freaking Junior year of college. I should have had leg braces as a kid.

I have a scar the size and shape of a boomerang across my right hip from surgery. They performed a Ganz osteotomy to fix it... They cut my right pelvis into 3 pieces, reformed and restructured it, cut the ball off my femur, relocated it via screws and then reformed my entire hip. My hip has felt wonderful since, but I never wrestled competitively again.

I'm curious about it, but can't find any information other than 'hip problems'. Interestingly, his son was a behemoth offensive lineman as well, but the son had health issues including a heart problem. This article references Brian saying that he had the same thing, including an incident when he was in college that was apparently never diagnosed: http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/20150613/GZ02/150619663. It seems like the Jozwiak family pays a health price for their size.

[ndws]

WoW ! Never realized we drafted Gale sayers.

and Bob Lily

[Titty Meat]

How bout the tight end we drafted got cut in camp and then went to prison for murder?

[Rain Man]

How bout the tight end we drafted got cut in camp and then went to prison for murder?

Elmore was a second-rounder, though I'll nod that he would be the lowest-ranked second-rounder on that whole list.

[Rain Man]

#48. Jon Baldwin, WR, 2011. 26th pick.

How do we explain Jon Baldwin? He made the over the back catch, which is a pretty amazing highlight. And he ran at night, which is apparently cool. But he didn't do much else other than fight in the locker room.

To his credit, he managed to make the team for two years, and then had enough value to warrant a very low-level trade. But you want a 1st round pick to produce more than 10 starts and 607 receiving yards.

Does anyone remember the story with him? Why did he bust so hard? He was battling for the #2 WR spot with Steve Breaston and Keary Colbert and Dexter McCluster, and he eventually got the boot because Donnie Avery was signed. It's not like he was walking into a crowded wide receiver group.

In KC, one could possibly argue that the #2 WR got no looks because Matt Cassel was dropping to the ground if the first read was covered, but the fact that he did nothing in SF and no one else would sign him points toward an inability to be an effective WR. In fact, in 2012, he was the second leading wide receiver after Bowe unless you count McCluster as a wide receiver, and yet he only had 20 receptions. He got traded to San Francisco for a loaf of day-old bread, and recorded 3 receptions before being cut.

If your memory is fading, here's a picture of him possibly catching a ball or possibly dropping it. He tarnished the cherished #89 jersey by wearing it.

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/220/files/2013/08/5664264.jpg

[Rain Man]

Here's a pre-draft report from 2011 that said that Baldwin was a potential locker room problem. I'll award Mayock full points for this.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2011/3/26/2073674/mayock-on-baldwin-reputation-as-a-diva

[Rasputin]

Jon couldn't even have an h in his name John. That should have said something.

[Rain Man]

Jon couldn't even have an h in his name John. That should have said something.

Too lazy to write out that extra letter, I guess.

He's an annoying bust because there wasn't any reason for him to bust. He never got hurt, and he had a clear runway to take a starting position. He had good combine numbers http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jonathan-baldwin?id=2495445 and great size. He just didn't translate it to productivity.

If someone remembers technical flaws, let me know. But I'm going to chalk this one up to a guy who just didn't want it very much.

[rico]

Man, I remember the 2012 TC reports were GLOWING about him. Apparently he did some crazy good things at TC. Didn't translate to the regular season though and I have always wondered why.

Anyone remember why Baldwin and Jones fought with each other?

[Rain Man]

Man, I remember the 2012 TC reports were GLOWING about him. Apparently he did some crazy good things at TC. Didn't translate to the regular season though and I have always wondered why.

Anyone remember why Baldwin and Jones fought with each other?

I don't think I ever knew why they fought. Given their reputations, though, I suspect it's not flattering to Baldwin. Did anyone ever hear the full story?

[Deberg_1990]

Junior Siavii?

Oh wait, he was 2nd round. Never mind

[Rain Man]

Junior Siavii?

Oh wait, he was 2nd round. Never mind

They fought over Junior Siavii? That's not what I would have expected.

[dmahurin]

Too lazy to write out that extra letter, I guess.

He's an annoying bust because there wasn't any reason for him to bust. He never got hurt, and he had a clear runway to take a starting position. He had good combine numbers http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jonathan-baldwin?id=2495445 and great size. He just didn't translate it to productivity.

If someone remembers technical flaws, let me know. But I'm going to chalk this one up to a guy who just didn't want it very much.

I vaguely remember an issue with his stride and it causing issues getting off the line and making cuts.

[Rain Man]

I vaguely remember an issue with his stride and it causing issues getting off the line and making cuts.

It seems like a reasonable person would relearn their stride if it meant their career.

[Rain Man]

#47. Anthony Hancock, 1982. WR. #11 pick.

The Chiefs traded a third round pick and the #16 pick in the draft to move up and take speedster Anthony Hancock with the #11 pick. When the #9 pick went off the board, they saw two playmakers on the board that they liked, so they traded up, knowing that they were guaranteed to get one of them. The Raiders had the #10 pick and they took one of those two guys, a running back named Marcus Allen, so the Chiefs took Anthony Hancock.

They tried to use him, they really did. They kept him on the roster for four years. His rookie season was cut short by the player's strike, but he looked good on returns. He moved forward to get 7 starts in 1983, though his return game dropped off, never to return. He battled injuries in 1984, couldn't regain ground in 1985, and missed most of 1986 with a knee injury. He was cut in training camp in 1987.

In his Chiefs career, he gained a little more than 1,200 yards receiving and added about 1,500 more on returns.

Overall, he made some big plays over the years, but couldn't seem to get on the field, despite the pass-happy Chiefs offense that was in place at that time. Most agreed that he wasn't terrible, but ... he couldn't gain a starting spot. On his release, he mentioned that he couldn't get enough playing time to build consistency, citing competition from Carlos Carson, Stephone Paige, and Henry Marshall. It seems that Anthony wasn't terrible, but he just wasn't good enough to move up the depth chart.

He ran for state rep in 2012, but lost. Here's his Facebook page if you're interested.

https://www.facebook.com/HancockForState/

[rico]

Interesting.

[Rain Man]

I worry that I may have ranked Hancock a little low. There's a whole mess of guys who are all pretty close, and I didn't account for the fact that he was competing for playing time against Carson, Paige, and Marshall.

However, as I look at it, Paige was an undrafted rookie who arrived a year after Hancock, and Paige played himself into a starting job. So maybe Hancock's in the right spot.

[Rain Man]

#46. Jeff Kinney, RB, 1972. 23rd pick.

It's early 1972. You're a Nebraska power back who just won the national championship, and you scored four touchdowns in the "Game of the Century" that pitted undefeated #1 Nebraska against undefeated #2 Oklahoma. Here are the scores of the 13 games Nebraska played that year.

W*34–7** Oregon*
W*35–7** Minnesota*
W*34–7** Texas A&M*
W*42–6** Utah State*
W*36–0** at*Missouri
W*55–0** Kansas
W*41–13** at*Oklahoma State
W*31–7** No. 9*Colorado
W*37–0** Iowa State
W*44–17** at*Kansas State
W*35–31** at*No. 2*Oklahoma
W*45–3** at*Hawaii*
W*38–6** vs.*No. 2*Alabama*

You've just been drafted by a powerhouse AFC team that lost the longest game in NFL history a couple of months ago, and is two years from a Super Bowl victory. The team has seven future Hall of Famers coming back for the 1972 season, and a strong, seasoned core of veterans. Your LT has ten straight pro bowls, your left guard has six straight pro bowls, and your center is about to start a string of four straight pro bowls.

What could possibly go wrong?

Man, you tell me. The Chiefs were in decline, first and foremost. They were above .500 for Kinney's first two seasons, then sank below sea level for a decade. Kinney couldn't wrest the starting job from Ed Podolak, and then a couple of years later after Podolak retired he couldn't beat out Woody Green. He was a Chief for slightly more than four seasons, amassing a little more than 800 yards at a 3.4 ypc, and adding a little more than 400 receiving.

This local newspaper article http://www.mccookgazette.com/story/1053703.html says that he was a Hank Stram guy, and when Stram left after his second year the new coach didn't feel that he was a fit.

Kinney had one season in Buffalo blocking for O.J. Simpson after he left KC, but that was it.

I'm not sure what to think about Kinney. He was on perhaps the strongest college team ever, so maybe that was an easy job for a running back. But I'm not sure that any of his linemen even made the NFL, so it's not like he was on one of the Miami teams that was full of 1st round picks. One could argue that his performance in the Game of the Century inflated his draft stock, and it was a very good performance, but he also carried the ball a lot of times to get those 171 yards.

My theory is that Kinney looked better at Nebraska than he really was, and it showed up in the pros.

Here's a picture of the back of his football card since I can't find a photo that those sleazeballs at Getty Images haven't stolen. It says that he was traded, but everything else I've seen says that the Bills claimed him off of waivers.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517QnCu1QdL._SY445_.jpg

[BossChief]

All those years of drafting bust DL and WRs and then in one draft KC hits home runs with picks for both positions (Jones and Hill) and then breaks the QB streak by moving up for Mahomes the next year.

Pretty fun little turn of events there.

[Rasputin]

Junior Siavii?

Oh wait, he was 2nd round. Never mind

They fought over Junior Siavii? That's not what I would have expected.

Isn't that the year we gave up a first for Coach Dick Vermiel? So technically Junior Siavii was our first pick of that draft ? Correct if I'm wrong somebody.

[Rasputin]

I can't bag on Junior Siavii too much. He was beast for me playing first person in ESPN 2k5. Still better than any Madden game put out. That first person was awesome playing inside the helmet.

[rico]

They fought over Junior Siavii? That's not what I would have expected.

I dunno man, the guy is pretty cute... and I bet he was pretty "suave" when he spit game with both of them.

The weird world of the NFL.

(Jkjkjk)

[rico]

#46. Jeff Kinney, RB, 1972. 23rd pick.

It's early 1972. You're a Nebraska power back who just won the national championship, and you scored four touchdowns in the "Game of the Century" that pitted undefeated #1 Nebraska against undefeated #2 Oklahoma. Here are the scores of the 13 games Nebraska played that year.

W*34–7** Oregon*
W*35–7** Minnesota*
W*34–7** Texas A&M*
W*42–6** Utah State*
W*36–0** at*Missouri
W*55–0** Kansas
W*41–13** at*Oklahoma State
W*31–7** No. 9*Colorado
W*37–0** Iowa State
W*44–17** at*Kansas State
W*35–31** at*No. 2*Oklahoma
W*45–3** at*Hawaii*
W*38–6** vs.*No. 2*Alabama*

You've just been drafted by a powerhouse AFC team that lost the longest game in NFL history a couple of months ago, and is two years from a Super Bowl victory. The team has seven future Hall of Famers coming back for the 1972 season, and a strong, seasoned core of veterans. Your LT has ten straight pro bowls, your left guard has six straight pro bowls, and your center is about to start a string of four straight pro bowls.

What could possibly go wrong?

Man, you tell me. The Chiefs were in decline, first and foremost. They were above .500 for Kinney's first two seasons, then sank below sea level for a decade. Kinney couldn't wrest the starting job from Ed Podolak, and then a couple of years later after Podolak retired he couldn't beat out Woody Green. He was a Chief for slightly more than four seasons, amassing a little more than 800 yards at a 3.4 ypc, and adding a little more than 400 receiving.

This local newspaper article http://www.mccookgazette.com/story/1053703.html says that he was a Hank Stram guy, and when Stram left after his second year the new coach didn't feel that he was a fit.

Kinney had one season in Buffalo blocking for O.J. Simpson after he left KC, but that was it.

I'm not sure what to think about Kinney. He was on perhaps the strongest college team ever, so maybe that was an easy job for a running back. But I'm not sure that any of his linemen even made the NFL, so it's not like he was on one of the Miami teams that was full of 1st round picks. One could argue that his performance in the Game of the Century inflated his draft stock, and it was a very good performance, but he also carried the ball a lot of times to get those 171 yards.

My theory is that Kinney looked better at Nebraska than he really was, and it showed up in the pros.

Here's a picture of the back of his football card since I can't find a photo that those sleazeballs at Getty Images haven't stolen. It says that he was traded, but everything else I've seen says that the Bills claimed him off of waivers.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517QnCu1QdL._SY445_.jpg

Man... so what was it that made that Nebraska team so good? Did anyone from that team pan out in the NFL? Were they somewhat similar to the Alabama teams we've been seeing the past few years?

[Dartgod]

Man... so what was it that made that Nebraska team so good? Did anyone from that team pan out in the NFL? Were they somewhat similar to the Alabama teams we've been seeing the past few years?

Nebraska routinely had kick ass offensive lines back in the day.

[threebag]

Yeah corn fed linemen were a staple

[Rain Man]

Man... so what was it that made that Nebraska team so good? Did anyone from that team pan out in the NFL? Were they somewhat similar to the Alabama teams we've been seeing the past few years?

Nebraska routinely had kick ass offensive lines back in the day.

I was curious about that too, and I went back and looked at their roster. I hardly recognize any of the names in the NFL (bolded below), and I tend to have some feel for the NFL history from that era. John Dutton is the only guy that I would say became an NFL success. They must've had great coaching or a great system or something, because this was not an NFL-stacked roster at all.

8 Fuller, Bruce S 6-00 181 2So. Kansas City, Mo.
9 Coleman, Ron QB 6-03 195 2So. Ulysses, Neb.
10 Humm, Dave QB 6-02 186 2So. Las Vegas, Neb.
11 Manstedt, Steve DE 6-02 210 2So. Wahoo, Neb.
12 Brownson, Van QB 6-03 185 4Sr. Shenandoah, Iowa
13 Runty, Steve QB 5-11 186 2So. Ogallala, Neb.
14 Tagge, Jerry QB 6-02 215 4Sr. Green Bay, Wis.
15 Starkebaum, John MON 6-02 198 2So. Haxton, Colo.
16 McClelland, Tom S 6-01 193 4Sr. Turtle Creek, Pa.
17 Thornton, Bob RCB 6-00 187 3Jr. Lonita, Calif.
18 Anderson, Jim RCB 6-00 180 4Sr. Green Bay, Wis.
19 Borg, Randy RCB 6-00 189 2So. Alliance, Neb.
20 Rodgers, Johnny HB 5-10 171 3Jr. Omaha, Neb.
21 Westbrook, Don HB 5-11 185 2So. Cheyenne, Wyo.
22 Dixon, Gary HB 5-10 201 3Jr. Oxnard, Calif.
23 Schmit, Bob HB 6-01 192 2So. Boys Town, Neb.
24 Kosch, Bill S 6-00 176 4Sr. Columbus, Neb.
25 Mason, Dave MON 6-00 199 3Jr. Green Bay, Wis.
26 Hughes, Jeff HB 5-11 196 4Sr. Burlington, Vt.
27 Blahak, Joe LCB 5-10 184 3Jr. Columbus, Neb.
28 Goeller, Dave HB 5-11 188 2So. Pilger, Neb.
29 Hollstein, Gary LCB 6-00 175 4Sr. Rushville, Neb.
30 Moran, Jeff HB 6-01 191 2So. Huron, S.D.
31 Bell, John MG 6-00 203 3Jr. Anaheim, Calif.
32 Cox, Woody SE 5-09 167 4Sr. Grosse Point, Mich.
33 Peetz, Mike MON 6-01 200 2So. Sidney, Neb.
34 O'Connell, John S 6-02 192 2So. Sidney, Neb.
35 Kinney, Jeff HB 6-02 210 4Sr. McCook, Neb.
36 Butts, Randy HB 6-02 197 2So. Grand Island, Neb.
37 Johnson, Monte MG 6-06 232 3Jr. Bloomington, Minn.
38 O'Holleran, Mike HB 6-01 197 2So. Sidney, Neb.
39 Garson, Glen HB 6-00 184 2So. Fullerton, Calif.
40 Morell, Pat LB 6-02 215 4Sr. Kansas City, Kan.
41 Powell, Ralph FB 6-02 218 2So. Detroit, Mich.
42 Sloey, Bill LB 6-01 224 3Jr. Hawthorne, Calif.
43 Sanger, Rich LB 6-00 214 2So. Ovid, Colo.
44 Olds, Bill FB 6-01 215 3Jr. Kansas City, Kan.
45 Terrio, Bob LB 6-02 209 4Sr. Fullerton, Calif.
46 Damkroger, Maury FB 6-02 215 2So. Lincoln, Neb.
47 Carstens, Jim FB 6-00 218 3Jr. Glen Ellyn, Ill.
48 Hauge, Bruce LB 6-02 216 3Jr. Bloomington, Minn.
49 Strong, Jon LB 6-03 211 2So. Fremont, Neb.
50 Jamail, Doug C 5-11 205 3Jr. Bellaire, Texas
51 Branch, Jim LB 5-09 203 3Jr. Chicago, Ill.
52 Duffy, Joe LG 6-02 217 2So. Pittsburgh, Pa.
53 Kinsel, John C 6-02 222 3Jr. Council Bluffs, Iowa
54 Dumler, Doug C 6-03 237 3Jr. Melrose Park, Ill.
55 Janssen, Bill DT 6-03 228 3Jr. Grand Forks, N.D.
56 Pitts, John MON 6-01 196 3Jr. Flint, Mich.
57 Adkins, John DE 6-03 221 4Sr. Lynchburg, Va.
58 Hyland, John DE 6-02 202 3Jr. Lincoln, Neb.
59 Zanrosso, Dennis C 6-02 223 2So. Arleta, Calif.
61 Weber, Bruce LG 6-00 223 4Sr. Arlington Heights, Ill.
62 Beran, Mike RG 6-00 232 3Jr. Ord, Neb.
63 Henderson, Joe RG 6-02 225 2So. Red Cloud, Neb.
64 Johnson, Doug DE 6-05 218 3Jr. Omaha, Neb.
65 Wortman, Keith RG 6-03 238 4Sr. Whittier, Calif.
66 Pabis, Bob MG 5-10 205 4Sr. Monessen, Pa.
67 Anderson, Dan RG 6-01 225 2So. Fremont, Neb.
68 Robison, Tom DT 6-03 236 2So. Detroit, Mich.
69 McKinley, Kim DT 6-03 233 2So. Greeley, Colo.
70 Crenshaw, Marvin RT 6-05 223 2So. Toledo, Ohio (Woodward)
71 Johnson, Carl RT 6-04 252 4Sr. Phoenix, Ariz.
72 White, Daryl LT 6-04 238 2So. East Orange, N.J.
73 Lynch, Dan DT 6-05 250 2So. Yankton, S.D.
74 Righetti, Phil LT 6-02 235 3Jr. Phoenix, Ariz.
75 Jacobson, Larry DT 6-06 250 4Sr. Sioux Falls, S.D.
76 Wolfe, Bob LT 6-05 242 2So. Omaha, Neb.
77 Rupert, Dick LG 6-02 221 4Sr. Los Angeles, Calif.
78 Austin, Al RT 6-05 222 2So. Lincoln, Neb.
79 Glover, Rich MG 6-01 234 3Jr. Jersey City, N.J.
80 Lackovic, Tim SE 6-01 186 2So. Omaha, Neb.
81 Harper, Willie DE 6-03 207 3Jr. Toledo, Ohio (Scott)
82 Harvey, Phil TE 6-01 208 4Sr. Kansas City, Kan.
83 Wieser, Steve DE 6-00 196 2So. Columbus, Neb.
84 Didur, Dale SE 6-00 184 4Sr. Long Beach, Calif.
85 List, Jerry TE 6-01 218 3Jr. Bay City, Mich.
86 Longwell, Brent TE 6-04 222 2So. Homer, Neb.
87 Guibord, Greg DE 6-04 197 2So. Dearborn Heights, Mich.
88 Linder, Max SE 6-03 200 2So. Plattsmouth, Neb.
89 Anderson, Frosty SE 6-01 176 2So. Scottsbluff, Neb.
90 Dutton, John DT 6-07 241 2So. Rapid City, S.D.
92 Hegener, Stan LT 6-04 231 2So. Lincoln, Neb.
93 Doak, Mark NT 6-04 236 2So. Whittier, Calif.
94 Deyke, Tom DT 6-03 218 2So. Columbus, Neb.
96 Henrichs, Dennis LG 6-02 210 2So. Beatrice, Neb.
98 Hill, Jeff SE 6-02 190 2So. LaGrange, Ill.
99 Nelson, Chris TE 6-04 210 2So. Albion, Neb.
999 Peterson, John MG 4Sr. Alma, Neb.

[Rain Man]

#45. Harvey Williams, RB, 1991. 21st pick.

Harvey made only 7 starts during a 3-year career in Kansas City, gaining less than 900 yards and adding about 200 more receiving.

He went to Oakland and had a couple of productive seasons during a five-year span, but with an asterisk. One of those seasons was productive only because they kept handing him the danged ball since he was averaging less per carry than even Jerome Bettis. So in essence, he had one good season. So you can make an argument that he was an NFL-caliber player, but just not a high-end one.

The only defense for Harvey with the Chiefs is that he faced some stiff competition. When they drafted Harvey, the Chiefs had Christian Okoye on the roster, who was highly effective, and they'd gone down to the local jail and bailed out Barry Word the year before. As we all know, the way you prove yourself as a running back is to find the highest-round draft pick in your cell block and take him down, and that's what Barry did to Harvey.

So Harvey banged around low on the depth chart for a couple of years, and then suddenly Christian and Barry were both gone. It looked like Harvey's time had come, but Marty really likes veterans. He signed Marcus Allen and gave Kimble Anders more opportunities, and Harvey's time had come and gone.

My bottom line is that Harvey just wasn't that good. He couldn't beat out Okoye and Word, and then no young player had a chance against Marcus Allen on a Marty team.

Anyone else remember why Harvey busted?

[dj56dt58]

#48. Jon Baldwin, WR, 2011. 26th pick.

How do we explain Jon Baldwin? He made the over the back catch, which is a pretty amazing highlight. And he ran at night, which is apparently cool. But he didn't do much else other than fight in the locker room.

To his credit, he managed to make the team for two years, and then had enough value to warrant a very low-level trade. But you want a 1st round pick to produce more than 10 starts and 607 receiving yards.

Does anyone remember the story with him? Why did he bust so hard? He was battling for the #2 WR spot with Steve Breaston and Keary Colbert and Dexter McCluster, and he eventually got the boot because Donnie Avery was signed. It's not like he was walking into a crowded wide receiver group.

In KC, one could possibly argue that the #2 WR got no looks because Matt Cassel was dropping to the ground if the first read was covered, but the fact that he did nothing in SF and no one else would sign him points toward an inability to be an effective WR. In fact, in 2012, he was the second leading wide receiver after Bowe unless you count McCluster as a wide receiver, and yet he only had 20 receptions. He got traded to San Francisco for a loaf of day-old bread, and recorded 3 receptions before being cut.

If your memory is fading, here's a picture of him possibly catching a ball or possibly dropping it. He tarnished the cherished #89 jersey by wearing it.

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/220/files/2013/08/5664264.jpg

The behind the back catch didn't even count. There was a flag on the play

[Rain Man]

The behind the back catch didn't even count. There was a flag on the play

In a way, that's kind of nice because it really stands as emblematic of his career.

[Rain Man]

#44. Sylvester Morris, WR, 2000. #21 pick.

Poor Sylvester. He tried to capture the Tweety Bird of NFL success, but he just got bonked in the knee by an old lady with a rolling pin.

He played only one season in the NFL, but there's a reason he's not lower on this list. In that one season, he had 14 starts. He'd won the job, and he was doing pretty well for a rookie wide receiver. He had 48 receptions for almost 700 yards, and he'd had the breakout 3 touchdown game against the Chargers for over 100 yards, and he had another 100 yard game against the Raiders.

He was a starting caliber NFL wide receiver who had a great upside. But his legs. His poor, poor legs. He was like Eddie Murphy at the beginning of Trading Places. I feel bad ranking him this low because I think he had a lot of potential, but he had the legs of a flamingo and the NFL is all about survival of the fittest.

Here are the news updates on Sylvester Morris after that promising rookie season of 2000. Take careful notes of the dates. This guy should have been a holdout in every training camp.

Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:07:15 -0700

The Kansas City Star reports Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris injured his right knee during drills. Morris was scheduled to have a MRI yesterday. The extent of the injury is not known at the time.

Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:19:02 -0700

SportsLine.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the initial indication is that Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris suffered major damage to his right knee yesterday. There's a chance he could miss the entire 2001 season. It is believed that he tore his ACL and possibly also damaged his PCL. A torn ACL alone would be enough to keep him out for the upcoming year. Dr. James Andrews is expected to examine Morris. Chiefs officials inquired about WR Derrick Mayes, who was cut earlier this year by the Seahawks, earlier this week but have yet to schedule a meeting with him.

Fri, 09 Nov 2001 20:37:04 -0800

The Kansas City Star reports Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris (knee) will probably miss all of the 2001 season. The Chiefs have until Tuesday to let Morris, their injured wide receiver, practice and still be eligible to play this season. "My thought right now would be to shut him down," coach Dick Vermeil said. "He has too far to go."

Fri, 03 May 2002 09:43:11 -0700

According to the Kansas City Star, Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris (knee) isn't expected to participate in this weekend's minicamp.

Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:03:44 -0700

KcChiefs.com reports WR Sylvester Morris saw his first live action since pre-season 2001 during Friday night's practice with the Vikings. He made a spectacular catch in heavy traffic. He did have to sit out Saturday's morning practice with soreness in his knee.

Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:32:13 -0700

Kansas City Chiefs head coach Dick Vermeil said WR Sylvester Morris (knee) did some work during Tuesday morning's practice but the team limited his reps. Morris has had some swelling in his knee.

Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:20:19 -0700

Kansas City Chiefs head coach Dick Vermeil said WR Sylvester Morris (knee) looked better during Tuesday morning's practice. However, he also added that Morris, at times, still does not look 100 percent.

Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:39:18 -0700

Kansas City Chiefs head coach Dick Vermeil said WR Sylvester Morris (knee) is still bothered by his previously injured leg. He was given the day off of practice.

Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:03:56 -0700

KcChiefs.com reports the Kansas City Chiefs have placed WR Sylvester Morris (knee) on IR.

Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:17:23 -0700

Adam Teicher, of the Kansas City Star, reports Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris (hip) missed practice Monday, July 21, due to a hip injury. He was expected to undergo an MRI during the afternoon to determine the status of his injury. "He's due for some good luck and hopefully the MRI will show that it's a strain and he will be back with us real soon," head coach Dick Vermeil said.

Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:53:44 -0700

Updating previous reports, the Associated Press says that Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris (hip) will miss the rest of training camp with torn tissue in the back of his hip. According to head coach Dick Vermeil, Morris will miss at least six weeks. 'It's the type of injury that's going to take quite a while to heal,'' Vermeil said. ''They don't think it's an injury that will need an operation or anything like that, but he's going to miss a lot of football. Basically, he misses training camp and maybe a little more."

Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:11:31 -0700

The Kansas City Star reports Kansas City Chiefs WR Sylvester Morris (hip) remained out of action during practice Saturday, July 26.

Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:33:43 -0700

Kansas City Chiefs president Carl Peterson announced the team has placed WR Sylvester Morris on injured reserve. Morris will miss the entire 2003 season.

Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:58:39 -0700

Adam Teicher, of the Kansas City Star, reports the Kansas City Chiefs waived WR Sylvester Morris (hip) off injured reserve.

Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:59:43 -0800

Updating a previous report, PewterReport.com reports the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have signed free agent WR Sylvester Morris (Chiefs) to a contract. Terms of the deal were undisclosed.

Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:46:55 -0700

Roy Cummings, of the Tampa Tribune, reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Sylvester Morris (leg) suffered a leg injury during practice Tuesday, June 22. Morris was carted off the field and appeared to be favoring his right knee at the time.

Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:45:37 -0700

Updating a previous report, Buccaneers.com reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Sylvester Morris (knee) could be lost for the season after suffering a right knee injury during workouts Tuesday, June 22. The injury happened on what head coach Jon Gruden called "a freak play" in which the wide receiver was untouched while running a pass route across the middle of the field. Morris sat out two years (2001-2002) while playing for the Kansas City Chiefs after suffering injuries on the same knee. "He wasn't hit and he really wasn't in an congested area," Gruden said. "He just planted and buckled his leg somehow, someway. It appears to be serious, but I don't have the final report yet. Gruden also added "It could threaten his season, when you talk about a serious knee injury. It could derail his comeback efforts," he said. Morris sat out all of 2003 with a hip injury.

Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:51:35 -0700

Updating previous reports, PewterReport.com reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Sylvester Morris (knee) will miss the 2004 season with a torn ACL.

If you don't remember Sylvester, here are pictures of him in 2000 and then in 2004.

http://www.turbodaddy.net/badschotz/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/649430.jpg.29394.0_display_image.jpghttp://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/25/53/1738124763-tp4.png

[Rasputin]

I remember Harvey Williams as tall and lanky and had a really long neck like those girls that put rings around their neck to make them longer. I don't think his body was built to be a steadfast running back in the NFL. I remember a Deberg​ playaction that faked out the cameras and thought he had the ball but it went for a Stephone Paige Touchdown. That play was common with our runningbacks.

[Rain Man]

#43. Percy Snow, ILB, 1990. #13 pick.

If we divide our first-round picks into quadrants, Percy rounds out the bottom quartile of Chiefs first-rounders. He's basically the linebacker version of Sylvester Morris, but a little further down the leg.

We all know the story. Good first season, then rides his motor scooter on campus, wipes out, and the ankle is gone. Gone. Campus cleaning crews vacuumed it up. He missed his entire second season, then came back as a shell of himself in his third year. Tracy Simien took his job and never looked back. Percy got cut, stopped for a cup of coffee with the Bears, and then rode off into the night.

He was a very linebacker-looking guy when you put a uniform on him. It's too bad that he didn't follow Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas as the third great defender. Those triplets could have accomplished great things.

In 2015, the New York Times did a "where are they now" of the first round of 1990 25 years later. It's a really interesting article, so check it out: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/28/sports/football/nfl-draft-class-1990.html

It sounds like Percy wasn't very happy with Marty when he left, and his life hasn't gone as planned. He had total career earnings of $2 million, but declared bankruptcy in 1999 and got kicked out of a house in 2010. However, he was elected to the College Football Hall of Fame in 2013, so he's got that going for him. He was selected over Derrick Thomas, who had to wait until 2014 to get in: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article318825/Percy-Snow-not-Derrick-Thomas-elected-to-College-Football-Hall-of-Fame.html

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/04/28/sports/football/DRAFT-slide-3DO6/DRAFT-slide-3DO6-jumbo-v2.jpg

[Rain Man]

#42. Paul Palmer, RB, 1987.

With the #42 pick, we move from the bottom quartile of busts to the third quartile of mild to moderate disappointments. Paul Palmer certainly falls into that group.

To a minor extent, Paul is a victim of circumstance. He was taken with the 19th pick, and then on the 35th pick the Chiefs selected the Nigerian Nightmare, who was way more scary. I'm not sure what Paul's 40 time was, but it couldn't have been that much faster than Okoye's.

Even so, a first-round pick should beat out a second-round pick, and that didn't happen. Palmer wasn't a complete bust when he was playing. He only got about 600 yards rushing in two seasons, but he added another 600 in receptions and he brought two kickoffs back for touchdowns his rookie year. If not for an unfortunate bus incident described below, he probably would have lasted another year or two.

The story of his departure from the team is rather interesting, as reported here. Whether he was joking or not, coaches tend to not like a player tanking to get the coach fired. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/25243/CHIEFS-SUSPENDED-PALMER-FOR-THREATENING-TO-FUMBLE.html

Kansas City Chiefs running back Paul Palmer was suspended by Coach Frank Gansz because he threatened to purposely fumble a few balls during a game in order to embarrass his coaching staff, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

Palmer was suspended after making a comment Saturday about "dropping a few balls on the carpet" Sunday in Kansas City's game against Pittsburgh, the Globe said, quoting unnamed sources.The comment was made by Palmer on a Chiefs team bus in Pittsburgh after other players were informed by C.T. Hewgley, the Chiefs' strength and weight coach, that they were being fined for being late to a team meeting earlier in the morning, the Globe said.

Although Palmer was not among those fined for being late, he made the comment after other players began criticizing both the fines and the coaching staff in general, the Globe said. Palmer's comment about fumbling, which he described as a way of ensuring that the team's coaching staff would be fired next season, was relayed by Hewgley to Gansz, the newspaper said.

Gansz, in suspending Palmer for the maximum of four games as allowed by NFL rules, did not state his reason publicly other than to describe it as being for conduct detrimental to the team. Kansas City lost the game to Pittsburgh, 16-10.

Palmer reportedly said afterward he was only joking when making the comment about fumbling, the Globe said.

He was cut in the offseason, then signed with Dallas, where he started 8 games behind a rookie Troy Aikman during the Cowboys' 1-15 year. Later that season, he was cut and briefly appeared in uniform for the Lions before moving on to his next career.

Here's a photo of Paul. He was less intimidating to tackle than Okoye, seen at right.

http://www.stickerpoints.com/uploadImages/stickers/1989-NFL-Football-Panini-Sticker-Album-Paul-PalmerKansas-City-Chiefs--309.jpghttp://assets.sbnation.com/assets/129088/okoye_medium.jpg

[Rain Man]

#41. Todd Blackledge, QB, 1983. #7 pick.

There's probably no need to bring up that Dolphins player. We all know that story. But did you know that he's the last quarterback drafted by the Chiefs who started a winning game for them? Let's hope that streak gets broken soon.

But back to Blackledge. From what I remember, it wasn't a shocker that he got picked. He was widely viewed as a first-round talent. No one batted an eye in 1983 when he was taken. I remember that Marino was also highly viewed, and the only difference really was that Marino had had an injury (shoulder?) that raised a question mark.

The Chiefs kept trying to work Blackledge into the lineup, but he simply couldn't beat out Bill Kenney. Blackledge was with the team for five years and in three of those years he had between 6 and 8 starts. Every year, Kenney outplayed him if you look at the stats. So he had his chance, but he couldn't get a firm grip on the starting job. When you're a top ten pick, that's not good.

He wound up starting 24 games for the Chiefs amassing about 4,500 yards passing with 26 TDs and 32 interceptions. He got minor action for a couple of years in Pittsburgh, but then had to go see the Turk. Opportunity lost.

[Rasputin]

Dammit Carl :cuss:


The Todd Blackledge curse was born but now it is broken with Patrick Mahomes II

[Rain Man]

#40. Willie Scott, TE, 1981. 14th pick.

I remember the 1981 draft as being odd, because they drafted two tight ends with the first three picks. Willie was the first rounder, and I kind of hate to rank him this low, but I need to.

He was with the team for five seasons, and was the starter for two. He got spot starts every season, so in total he started 40 games. I don't remember much about Willie, but presume he was more about blocking than receiving, because he totaled 75 catches for KC for slightly less than 700 yards.

He was replaced in the lineup by Walt Arnold, so I guess that tells us that he didn't exactly have a stranglehold on the position. He then went to New England as a backup for a couple of years.

The picture below may or may not be of Willie Scott during his college days. I'm not sure. I can't find a picture of him as a Chief, because of a much more famous Willie Scott.

http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/3a8ebd12-109e-4d41-8e74-ccea652e29fc/67878cab-e17a-4591-8def-9b6bdafac0e4.jpg

The more famous Willie Scott is, of course, the woman ("Wilhelmina Scott") in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Kate Capshaw's character is from Missouri, so it's possibly that her character is loosely based on the life our former tight end.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/WillieandShortRound.jpg/300px-WillieandShortRound.jpg

[Rain Man]

Dammit Carl :cuss:


The Todd Blackledge curse was born but now it is broken with Patrick Mahomes II

I'd never thought about it before, but Bill Kenney, a 12th round draft choice of the Dolphins before coming to KC, killed two Chiefs first-round quarterbacks. He chased Steve Fuller to the bench, knocking him out of a starting spot, and then he fought Todd Blackledge off from that starting spot a couple of years later.

Maybe it's the curse of Bill Kenney more than the curse of Carl.

[Rasputin]

I'd never thought about it before, but Bill Kenney, a 12th round draft choice of the Dolphins before coming to KC, killed two Chiefs first-round quarterbacks. He chased Steve Fuller to the bench, knocking him out of a starting spot, and then he fought Todd Blackledge off from that starting spot a couple of years later.

Maybe it's the curse of Bill Kenney more than the curse of Carl.

I'm kinda fond of Dammit Carl :cuss:


Any other way of thinking is going take extra therapy sessions and lots more booze and drug paraphernalia to comprehend and cope.

[Rain Man]

#39, Elmo Wright, WR, 1971. 16th pick.

He gets some bonus points for inventing the modern touchdown celebration, but that doesn't buy much given the terrible things it spawned. And did you know that he only scored 7 touchdowns in the NFL? That high-step wasn't seen very often, but you can see it at the 4:00 minute mark here, as well as the 5:30 mark and the 10:00 mark. (The 10:00 one is the prettiest.) At 26:40, you can see an ultra-rare Elmo dance on a non-touchdown, which I didn't think existed. (Awesome video of the 1971 season, by the way. Definitely worth watching.)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s90c_qt66qU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Anyway, I think that Elmo was a starter for four seasons, but he was the #2 receiver, and I think he was hurt and missed most of his second year. I think perhaps injuries ended his career after his fourth year, but I'm not sure. In the end, he produced a little more than 1,000 yards receiving and almost 100 rushing. It was a career that ended too soon.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/11/13/sports/13redskins450.jpg

[Chieficus]

#40. Willie Scott, TE, 1981. 14th pick.

The picture below may or may not be of Willie Scott during his college days. I'm not sure. I can't find a picture of him as a Chief, because of a much more famous Willie Scott.

Here ya go...

[Rain Man]

Here ya go...

That could be him. Let me take a closer look.

[Rain Man]

#38, Pete Beathard, QB, 1964. #2 pick.

With the #2 pick in the draft, the Chiefs selected a quarterback. A quarterback!

If you know your history, you might question this, because Len Dawson had been a starter for two years when this pick was made. But - get this - Hank Stram said that he "liked to stockpile quarterbacks".

I'll stop for a moment and let you savor a time when Chiefs management liked to stockpile quarterbacks.

Anyway, it was a calculated risk. Dawson had started for two years, with a fantastic year in 1962 and a good year (for the era) in 1963. However, he'd done nothing for five years before that with Cleveland and Pittsburgh, and in an era where players didn't play forever, he was going to be 29 years old headed into the season. Beathard was highly rated, so the Chiefs pulled the trigger.

As it turns out, it was a bad bet. Dawson continued his growth trajectory into a Hall of Fame career, and actually played another 11 seasons. For 3+ seasons Beathard languished on the bench, getting only 2 starts before being traded to Houston in 1967. He played for Houston (3 seasons as a mediocre starter), the Cardinals, and the Rams before actually returning to KC as a backup for the 1969 season.

Beathard ended his Chiefs career with about 1,600 yards passing and his 10-year NFL career with a little over 8,000. He threw 43 TDs and 84 Ints, so no one ever confused him with an all-pro.

So his Chiefs career was a bust and he wasn't an effective quarterback elsewhere in the league. Why isn't he rated at the bottom of the list?

Well, my friends, this is a lesson in drafting. The Chiefs took a highly rated quarterback, sat him on the bench for three years, and were then able to trade him. In return, they got 1st round draft pick in 1968 (#22 pick), a defensive end (Ernie Ladd), and a backup quarterback (Jacky Lee). Quarterbacks have trade value based on reputation.

Overall, he wasn't a big gain, and perhaps we lost value dropping from the #2 pick to the #22 pick. But overall, we got a backup QB for several years, a defensive end, and another pick who turned out to be a 7-year backup for the Chiefs. Not ideal, but not bad.

Here's a rare view of Beathard in action for the Chiefs:

http://www.nasljerseys.com/images/2013Images/2013WFL/NFL/Chiefs%2065%20Road%20Pete%20Beathard,%20Oilers.jpg

[Rain Man]

#37. George Daney, G, 1968. 22nd pick.

Since we traded Pete Beathard for a first-round pick you may be wondering who we took with that pick. It was this fellow, Mr. George Daney.

George is another classic story of a guy getting screwed over in the draft. The Chiefs already had Ed Budde, of course, and were looking to upgrade the RG spot. With the 22nd pick, they selected RG George Daney, but they had two first-round picks and with the #19 pick they selected RG Mo Moorman. They must have really wanted a guard.

Moorman won the starting job and held it for six years before retiring, while Daney was the backup. Daney finally got to start in his seventh year, and then retired after that. The records don't show exactly how many starts he had, but I suspect it was in the 25 to 30 range. He was apparently quite active on special teams, though.

He was also one of the team clowns. You should read this great article about Jim Tyrer's murder-suicide https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1980/09/21/tyrer-tragedy-no-coping-with-mortality/7113d609-12c7-4532-ad03-1eafb4e85e8d/?utm_term=.a5f1fba52009, but it mentions the following about Daney:

On the excellent Chief teams of the late '60s and early '70s, no two players seemed more dissimilar than celebrated offensive tackle Jim Tyrer and backup guard George Daney. Tyrer seemed a tower of strength, always forward-thinking and sensible; Daney was seen as a flake, if not quite a goof-off, a man who joined center Jack Rudnay in countless pranks and seemingly gave no thought to life after football. In tandem, Daney and Rudney were known as Heckle and Jeckle, after the cartoon birds.

Once, to relieve the boredom of yet another film, Rudnay and Daney unscrewed all the outlets within 100 yards of the projector, snipped all the wiring and then replaced the outlets. Coach Hank Stram must have considered hiring an electrician as an assistant coach. There was a method to this seeming madness, Daney insists. Acting looney often was a way to avoid becoming looney.

Although none of his teammates sensed it while he was playing, Daney fully realized the limits of pro football, that it was an interlude in his life, to be used as a springboard toward financial freedom rather than as a way to avoid growing up.

Like most players, Daney was frustrated at the uncertainty, callousness and lack of imagination in the NFL during his seven years with the Chiefs. Unlike most players, he mustered the courage to quit long before being ordered. In early July of 1975, Daney charged into the Chief offices to announce his retirement. Nobody was there to acknowledge it.

"The office was about a mile from the house," he said. "I'd gone that far, I had to tell someone. So I told the only person there -- the trainer. I told him to tell the front office. Then I went on vacation. When I got back, I found out they traded me to Houston, that they were trying to salvage something.

"I could have gone two more years, maybe five. But where would it have gotten me? Where's the breaking-off point? Jim was at a much higher level (of income) than me. But he still had to start from the bottom some time. That's not a pessimistic view. It's realistic. You get caught in an ego and financial trap. And the longer you play the more you get trapped.

"I told Jim I was twice as smart as he was (both retired in '75), because it took me seven years to learn what it took him 14 to learn. We were both unemployed -- only I was 28 and he was 36."

"I used to wish George had a bigger ego," said Linda, "that he was more like Jim, that he'd play a few more years. Thank God he never listened to me."

So in summary, he's a different type of player than we've seen so far on the list. He didn't get a lot of starts, but he was with the team for a long time. Unfortunately, he also had an odd young death, dying at age 43 in his garage in what was believed to be an accident.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-16/sports/sp-961_1_past-chiefs-guard-found-dead

He looks like someone I recognize, but I can't place who:

http://www.wash-greenesportshall.org/images/2007/GEORGE%20DANEY.jpg

[Rasputin]

Gosh dang that's tragic I didn't know this story of Jim Tyrer's. These are things NFL should be warning players about and possible prevent what happened with Belcher.

[rico]

I'm loving these. Thanks Rain Man!

[Halfcan]

Awesome thread!

[patteeu]

In b4 poll.

[Rain Man]

Gosh dang that's tragic I didn't know this story of Jim Tyrer's. These are things NFL should be warning players about and possible prevent what happened with Belcher.

That was a pretty amazing article, wasn't it? I knew what had happened, but didn't know much about the back story.

What was particularly interesting to me was the realization that a lot of these older players didn't make a ton of money, so they had to go out and find jobs in their 20s or 30s or 40s, and it wasn't just to keep busy. They really needed the income.

[Rasputin]

That was a pretty amazing article, wasn't it? I knew what had happened, but didn't know much about the back story.

What was particularly interesting to me was the realization that a lot of these older players didn't make a ton of money, so they had to go out and find jobs in their 20s or 30s or 40s, and it wasn't just to keep busy. They really needed the income.

Yes great article much insight to what goes through players mind it's not as glamorous at it may seem. I'll probably read it a few times over for better understanding of what it was like.

[Rasputin]

I know the power outlet prank happened under Hank Stram but id like to think if it happened during Gunther Cunningham lmfao he would come unglued and cus them up and down.

[Rain Man]

#36, Greg Hill, RB, 1994. 25th pick.

You can't tell the story of Greg Hill without telling the story of Marcus Allen, because Marcus career-blocked Greg for his whole career. Marty liked veterans, we all know that, and Allen arrived a year before Hill, in 1993.

So during Hill's four years in KC, let's compare statistics.

Starts:

Hill 19
Allen 43

Rushing Attempts:

Hill 588
Allen 726

Rushing Yards:

Hill 2436
Allen 2934

YPC:

Hill 4.1
Allen 4.0

Rushing TDs:

Hill 6
Allen 32

Receptions:

Hill 38
Allen 107

Receiving Yards

Hill 323
Allen 915

Yards per Reception

Hill 8.5
Allen 8.6

Receiving TDs:

Hill 1
Allen 0

Total Yards From Scrimmage:

Hill 2,759
Allen 3,849

Fumbles:

Hill 5 (1 per 125 touches)
Allen 11 (1 per 75 touches)

So let's review. Marcus Allen got the starts, and Marcus Allen got the touchdowns. Hill was slightly more productive (probably equivalent overall if you take Allen's short-yardage TDs into account), did a lot of heavy lifting between the 20s, and was notably more reliable on ball protection.

Was Hill really a disappointment, or would he have been a good pick if he'd been handed the ball? Objectively, he played Marcus Allen to a draw, and Allen is highly regarded. I guess we'll never know what Hill could have been, but the bottom line is that he was with the team for four years, got 19 starts, and he produced about 2,800 yards in offense.

He left KC and went to the Rams. He started to set the place on fire with 240 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first two games, and then he broke his leg and was lost for the year. He came back again in Detroit with 8 pedestrian starts, and presumably then retired to try to get his girlfriend back from Marty.

Here's Greg cheering an opportunity to carry the ball.

http://kckingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2016/02/72563349-packers-v-chiefs-hill.jpg

[Rain Man]

I know the power outlet prank happened under Hank Stram but id like to think if it happened during Gunther Cunningham lmfao he would come unglued and cus them up and down.

If it happened under Herm, he wouldn't have noticed.

[rico]

"Here's Hill cheering for an opportunity to carry the ball!"

ROFL

Holy cow that's funny.

I remember Hill fairly well (I was around 10 years old when we drafted him). I didn't realize that Hill had some better stats on some categories and wouldn't have guessed it. I remember always feeling pessimistic about Hill when he'd touch the ball while being super pumped every time Allen racked up a carry...those TD's can really distort a young kid's perceptions of these types of things.

[KC_Lee]

If I am remembering correctly Marty would "start" Hill in Hill's second year by putting him in for the first offensive play and then put Allen into the line up. One of the bigger dick moves ever.

[Quesadilla Joe]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-11it34dANA?start=761" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[rico]

Rain Man: If you were to write a Chiefs history book of some sort and self publish it or publish it however books are published these days... I would totally buy it.

There are a ton of different approaches you could take... Hell, this thread is a perfect example/idea. If you were to lump the stories you've written for the idea you came up with for this thread, I'd LOVE to own a hard copy of it... only catch is, it'd have to include your brand of jokes that every one of these excerpts have :D...funny as hell, man.

I'm serious when I say that I may print out this list of players with their stories and organize them and put them in a binder...would love to have a hard copy to read at work.

Good stuff. I can't believe this isn't the most burst-happy thread on CP right now...I love reading about the history of the NFL and considering this is Chiefs history (which is rare to find), it makes it so much better.

Hell, I have a book called "War Room." Which is about the Patriots mafia...and while I don't care for that team, I love that book... Would love it if there were a book like that about the Chiefs.

[Rasputin]

I agree with Rico this thread rocks. Rain Man usually outdoes himself again and again. The only thing I'm ready for the top 10 first round picks because a lot of these seem like wasted opportunities to build championships with even though we've had almost 50 years of wasted opportunity.

[stumppy]

More more more....more football talk, more more more.

[patteeu]

I agree with Rico this thread rocks. Rain Man usually outdoes himself again and again. The only thing I'm ready for the top 10 first round picks because a lot of these seem like wasted opportunities to build championships with even though we've had almost 50 years of wasted opportunity.

All 10 of them are currently flying over the south pacific in one of these, so manage your expectations! :)

http://www.aviation-history.com/boeing/b17-101b.jpg

[rico]

Man...I'm looking forward to the non-top ten moresso than I am the top 10. Educational. I likely know a lot about the top 10...the outsiders and Rain Man's quirky sense of humor is what is making this unbelievably awesome for me.

[patteeu]

Man...I'm looking forward to the non-top ten moresso than I am the top 10. Educational. I likely know a lot about the top 10...the outsiders and Rain Man's quirky sense of humor is what is making this unbelievably awesome for me.

Let's both guess who #11 will be. I'll put my guess in a spoiler so it gives RainMan a chance to avoid being influenced one way or the other.

Art Still

[Rain Man]

#35 - Woody Green, RB, 1974. #16 pick.

One might argue that Woody could be rated lower, but he's a case study in bad luck, at least in his football career. It appears there were some judgment errors off the field that didn't help.

Podolak was winding down, and as we saw earlier Jeff Kinney wasn't panning out as an earlier first-round pick. So the Chiefs took a surefire pick with Woody Green, a two-time all-American who had come in 8th for the Heisman his senior year.

Woody took over the starting job in Week 4 for a declining Chiefs team, with mixed but promising results. He had two 100 yard game, including 146 yards in San Diego, but he also had a 30-carry game against the Giants that produced 66 yards. He got hit a lot, and finished his season in Week 12 with a collarbone injury. His first year produced 509 yards rushing.

He then spent his offseason in court facing charges (along with a Buffalo Bills player) of raping a 16 year-old girl. Lamar pulled out all the stops to help him, going to court in Oregon with him and convincing several Chiefs players (Lanier, Stenerud, Podolak) to provide character references for him even though Lanier acknowledged that he didn't really know Woody very well. Woody was found innocent roughly three weeks before the season started.

He came back as the Week 1 starter in 1975, but had a disappointing year. He posted two 100-yard games, but averaged 4+ ypc in only five of the 14 games and was part of a big platoon of running backs. He then came back in Year 3, and was looking good even though he was still splitting carries. In Week 6, though, he left a knee on the field and never played again.

The final tally was three years as the starter, mostly amidst a running back committee, and two of those years ended early in injury. There are references to him having "multiple knee injuries" in his NFL career, so maybe he was playing hurt a bit. He ended up producing just over 2,000 total yards from scrimmage.

Interesting trivia - Woody's three years in the NFL ended with 5-9 records every year.

After the NFL, he got himself in some trouble, doing time for burglary, but is apparently out and living amongst us again. Makes you wonder a little bit about that rape charge.

Here he is on the cover of Sports Illustrated before the whole collarbone/ rape/ knee/ burglary thing.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/216886/1118_large.jpg

[Rain Man]

Let's both guess who #11 will be. I'll put my guess in a spoiler so it gives RainMan a chance to avoid being influenced one way or the other.

Art Still

Actually, I don't even know who #11 is yet. I've sorted them in a moderately precise order based on a variety of stats, and then for each pick I look at the bottom 5 or 6 in detail to identify the odd man out. It's interesting how they tend to fall into a natural continuum, though, as I work through them.

[patteeu]

Actually, I don't even know who #11 is yet. I've sorted them in a moderately precise order based on a variety of stats, and then for each pick I look at the bottom 5 or 6 in detail to identify the odd man out. It's interesting how they tend to fall into a natural continuum, though, as I work through them.

That's what will make it even more impressive when my prediction comes true. I like your approach. I did the same thing when I identified #11.

[Rain Man]

#34. Ryan Sims, DT, 2002. 6th pick.

Where to start?

First off, we've gone through 22 picks on our way up the list, and the odds say that we should have listed seven draft picks from 2000 or later. However, we've only listed two. Why is that?

My theory is that in simpler times a first-round bust never played. They didn't cost that much money so you'd put the best people on the field regardless of when they were drafted. In the post Y2K era, first round picks are so expensive that they're likely given every chance to succeed, which means more playing opportunities even if they haven't earned it. A 2000-era bust will likely be given a couple of years to prove himself, which make me think that Jonathan Baldwin must have stunk far more than we even thought possible.

Anyway, Ryan Sims is one of those guys who was given a chance to succeed, albeit under Greg Robinson's infamous "spinner" defense. (Shudder.) Who can forget the sight of Eric Hicks being the lone pass rusher against five linemen while Ryan Sims dropped back into coverage?

Anyway, we may remember this story. Dick Vermeil had an old linebacker from the Eagles named John Bunting. Bunting was then coaching at North Carolina and talked up Sims like he was the second coming of Bob Lilly. Sims played next to Julius Peppers, and questions arose about whether Peppers was all that and a bag of chips, or whether Sims' work inside made Peppers look good. (Spoiler: Peppers was all that and a bag of chips.)

Closer to home, debates on Chiefsplanet raged about whether we should take Ryan Sims, John Henderson, Albert Haynesworth, or Wendell Bryant, and as I recall it was mostly a Sims/Henderson debate. (Spoiler alert: the correct answer was Haynesworth.) I was in the Bryant camp, which was a small minority and rightfully so.

When the time came, the Chiefs thought the Vikings wanted Sims, so they traded up from #8 to #6 with the Cowboys, giving up a second-round pick and a 2003 third-round pick to do so. However, the Cowboys forgot to call the league office to let them know about the trade, and the draft clock ran out. The Vikings tried to run up to the stage with their Ryan Sims card, and the Chiefs ran up with their Ryan Sims card, and the NFL ruled that the Chiefs won the race.

And that was the last time that Ryan Sims was ever double-teamed.

Seriously, screw Greg Robinson and that spinner defense. We all talked about how it didn't make use of Sims' strengths, but we also began wondering just what Sims' strengths were. He had a big holdout his rookie year, signing after training camp had ended, and he only started two games his rookie year. His season ended with a dislocated elbow, which sounds like an injury that would really hurt.

He came back and was a regular starter in 2003 and 2004, playing mostly free safety or some such thing in Greg Robinson's stupid defense. He showed promise in 2003, regressed in 2004, and then hurt his foot in 2005 and missed a majority of the season.

In a telling anecdote, he was then traded to the Buccaneers for a conditional seventh-round draft choice, but apparently he didn't meet the conditions, so the Chiefs got nothing in the trade. Sims ended his Chiefs career with 36 starts and 64 tackles. He actually stayed with the Buccaneers for four more years in which absolutely nothing of interest happened.

He must have the least flattering football card photo ever made:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJWijyrgLGk4laR9cW7_SHPj2pD1ZFaLEphtMzFjxdI7TVdGky

Here's a better picture of him dancing with Boomer Grigsby in one of the rare moments where Robinson's defense didn't yield points.

http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2006/10/09/CHIEFS_colo4k_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc

[rico]

#35 - Woody Green, RB, 1974. #16 pick.

One might argue that Woody could be rated lower, but he's a case study in bad luck, at least in his football career. It appears there were some judgment errors off the field that didn't help.

Podolak was winding down, and as we saw earlier Jeff Kinney wasn't panning out as an earlier first-round pick. So the Chiefs took a surefire pick with Woody Green, a two-time all-American who had come in 8th for the Heisman his senior year.

Woody took over the starting job in Week 4 for a declining Chiefs team, with mixed but promising results. He had two 100 yard game, including 146 yards in San Diego, but he also had a 30-carry game against the Giants that produced 66 yards. He got hit a lot, and finished his season in Week 12 with a collarbone injury. His first year produced 509 yards rushing.

He then spent his offseason in court facing charges (along with a Buffalo Bills player) of raping a 16 year-old girl. Lamar pulled out all the stops to help him, going to court in Oregon with him and convincing several Chiefs players (Lanier, Stenerud, Podolak) to provide character references for him even though Lanier acknowledged that he didn't really know Woody very well. Woody was found innocent roughly three weeks before the season started.

He came back as the Week 1 starter in 1975, but had a disappointing year. He posted two 100-yard games, but averaged 4+ ypc in only five of the 14 games and was part of a big platoon of running backs. He then came back in Year 3, and was looking good even though he was still splitting carries. In Week 6, though, he left a knee on the field and never played again.

The final tally was three years as the starter, mostly amidst a running back committee, and two of those years ended early in injury. There are references to him having "multiple knee injuries" in his NFL career, so maybe he was playing hurt a bit. He ended up producing just over 2,000 total yards from scrimmage.

Interesting trivia - Woody's three years in the NFL ended with 5-9 records every year.

After the NFL, he got himself in some trouble, doing time for burglary, but is apparently out and living amongst us again. Makes you wonder a little bit about that rape charge.

Here he is on the cover of Sports Illustrated before the whole collarbone/ rape/ knee/ burglary thing.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/216886/1118_large.jpg

Was he kind of Trent Richardson-ish?

[Rain Man]

Was he kind of Trent Richardson-ish?

Yeah, maybe so. However, I did find a "season preview" newspaper article from 1975 that said that the Chiefs' weak link going into the year was the offensive line, so it's possible that he just didn't have running room. The OL that year was LT Charlie Getty, LG Ed Budde, C Jack Rudnay, RG Tom Condon, and RT Jim Nicholson. Getty, Nicholson, and Condon were all second year players, Budde apparently got hurt in Week 1 and missed the rest of the season, while Condon missed half the season. Rudnay was a pro bowler, but it seems like they weren't very established as a line.

Here's the excerpt from the article. It's scanned, so there are lots of typos: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/31284113/ Wiggin doesn't sound very motivational in this interview at all.

The Kansas City Chiefs are definitely a question mark starting the new National Football League season. I;Only one thing is really certain: Hank Stram, the dapper coach who guided the Chiefs through all of their previous years, won't be pacing the sidelines with a program rolled up in his hand. The Stram era is over. Stram was fired last winter after a dismal 5-9 season, the worst in the Chiefs' history.

Paul Wiggin, plucked from the coaching Staff of the San Francisco 49ers, is the new boss. The Chiefs hired the energetic, personable, 40-year-old Wiggin to try to return the team to respectability on the field and to restore the club's public image which sagged to rock-bottom in the waning years of Stram's regime.

Wiggin says the new coaching staff and the players are "trying to adapt to one another. There's still a lot of Apprehension. We need some success now. Our big area of concern is our offensive line."

Wiggin figures the Chiefs n'ave no place to go but up. How fast they can accomplish this, He won't predict. "I won't say we'll finish8-6," Wiggin said. "I won't say we'll Have it in three years. We've going to struggle and fight to be a winner."

Wiggin doesn't relish the thought of building his team around 40 - year-old Len Dawson, who quarterbacked the Chiefs to a Super Bowl victory as the climax to the 1969 season and since has watched the team gradually decline.

"I hope somebody beats Dawson out of the quarterback spot," says Wiggin.

If anybody beats Dawson out, and that isn't likely, it wilt have to be Mike Livingston, his understudy; Greg Cook, a rookie star with Cincinnati in 1969 but since plagued by shoulder problems, and Tony Adams, who led the World Football League in passing last season with the Southern California Sun.

No m a t t e r who plays quarterback, he's certain to have problems. The offensive line of the Chiefs simply isn't adequate despite the presence of veterans Jack Rudnay at center and guard Ed Budde and the likes of tackles Charlie Getty and Jim Nicholson and guard Tom Condon. The Chiefs' fullback outlook has been bolstered by the acquisition of MacArthur Lane from the Green Bay Packers.

Wiggin has a trio of fine running backs in Woody Green. Ed Podolak and Cleophus Miller. Green's status isn't certain, he is facing a rape charge in Portland, Ore. Wiggin is at least slightly optimistic about his offensive line. "I look for us to show a more dramatic improvement there than anywhere else on our team," says Wiggin. "We've got some good, young guys like Nicholson and Getty." About the running backs, Wiggin says, "I think we are the haves . . . not; the have- nots." And our fullback situation has turned around completely with the addition of Lane . . . and there's Jeff Kinney and Morris LaGrand."

The Chiefs figure they are pretty well set defensively. Wiggin lured premier linebacker Willie Lanier out of retirement. Lanier is joined by two old standbys, Jim Lynch and Bobby Bell. The rest of the defense is loaded with veterans Wilbur Young and John Matuszak at end, Buck Buchanan and Marvin Upshaw at the tackles, Emmitt Thomas and Jim Marsalis at the cornerbacks and Mike Sensibaugh and Jim Kearney at safety.

"It would be a mistake to come into a team like this and decide to clean house," Wiggin says. "There are some excellent older players on this team capable of helping us. "I think we'll be better than last year." predicts Wiggin.

As a side note, Woody was the last first-round pick of Hank Stram. Paul Wiggin took over from there, and man oh man, he and Tom Bettis were bitter about being fired as the subsequent head coaches. If you want to read the most whiny article ever, check this out: https://www.si.com/vault/1978/03/13/264312/coach-youre-fired-in-the-year-of-the-pink-slip-paul-wiggin-of-the-kansas-city-chiefs-was-the-first-of-10-nfl-head-coaches-to-be-out-on-the-street-in-time-six-of-his-assistants-were-released-too-three-have-found-work-but-wiggin-a#

[Halfcan]

Sims was such a lazy fatass, what a horrible pick.

[jjchieffan]

RainMan, I just wanted to tell you, this is the best thread on CP in a long time. I make it a point to get on CP and look for the latest additions to thread by you. Well done.

[Rain Man]

Sims was such a lazy fatass, what a horrible pick.

This football card just slays me. He must have insulted the photographer or something. Can you imagine becoming a pro football player and getting your own football card, and it looks like this?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJWijyrgLGk4laR9cW7_SHPj2pD1ZFaLEphtMzFjxdI7TVdGky

[Rasputin]

#34. Ryan Sims, DT, 2002. 6th pick.

Where to start?

First off, we've gone through 22 picks on our way up the list, and the odds say that we should have listed seven draft picks from 2000 or later. However, we've only listed two. Why is that?

My theory is that in simpler times a first-round bust never played. They didn't cost that much money so you'd put the best people on the field regardless of when they were drafted. In the post Y2K era, first round picks are so expensive that they're likely given every chance to succeed, which means more playing opportunities even if they haven't earned it. A 2000-era bust will likely be given a couple of years to prove himself, which make me think that Jonathan Baldwin must have stunk far more than we even thought possible.

Anyway, Ryan Sims is one of those guys who was given a chance to succeed, albeit under Greg Robinson's infamous "spinner" defense. (Shudder.) Who can forget the sight of Eric Hicks being the lone pass rusher against five linemen while Ryan Sims dropped back into coverage?

Anyway, we may remember this story. Dick Vermeil had an old linebacker from the Eagles named John Bunting. Bunting was then coaching at North Carolina and talked up Sims like he was the second coming of Bob Lilly. Sims played next to Julius Peppers, and questions arose about whether Peppers was all that and a bag of chips, or whether Sims' work inside made Peppers look good. (Spoiler: Peppers was all that and a bag of chips.)

Closer to home, debates on Chiefsplanet raged about whether we should take Ryan Sims, John Henderson, Albert Haynesworth, or Wendell Bryant, and as I recall it was mostly a Sims/Henderson debate. (Spoiler alert: the correct answer was Haynesworth.) I was in the Bryant camp, which was a small minority and rightfully so.

When the time came, the Chiefs thought the Vikings wanted Sims, so they traded up from #8 to #6 with the Cowboys, giving up a second-round pick and a 2003 third-round pick to do so. However, the Cowboys forgot to call the league office to let them know about the trade, and the draft clock ran out. The Vikings tried to run up to the stage with their Ryan Sims card, and the Chiefs ran up with their Ryan Sims card, and the NFL ruled that the Chiefs won the race.

And that was the last time that Ryan Sims was ever double-teamed.

Seriously, screw Greg Robinson and that spinner defense. We all talked about how it didn't make use of Sims' strengths, but we also began wondering just what Sims' strengths were. He had a big holdout his rookie year, signing after training camp had ended, and he only started two games his rookie year. His season ended with a dislocated elbow, which sounds like an injury that would really hurt.

He came back and was a regular starter in 2003 and 2004, playing mostly free safety or some such thing in Greg Robinson's stupid defense. He showed promise in 2003, regressed in 2004, and then hurt his foot in 2005 and missed a majority of the season.

In a telling anecdote, he was then traded to the Buccaneers for a conditional seventh-round draft choice, but apparently he didn't meet the conditions, so the Chiefs got nothing in the trade. Sims ended his Chiefs career with 36 starts and 64 tackles. He actually stayed with the Buccaneers for four more years in which absolutely nothing of interest happened.

He must have the least flattering football card photo ever made:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJWijyrgLGk4laR9cW7_SHPj2pD1ZFaLEphtMzFjxdI7TVdGky

Here's a better picture of him dancing with Boomer Grigsby in one of the rare moments where Robinson's defense didn't yield points.

http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2006/10/09/CHIEFS_colo4k_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc

It's a bootleg :cuss:

[stumppy]

More football.....more more more.

[patteeu]

I don't even know how the photographer could be comfortable with Ryan Sims' rookie card. What a terrible picture.

[Halfcan]

This football card just slays me. He must have insulted the photographer or something. Can you imagine becoming a pro football player and getting your own football card, and it looks like this?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJWijyrgLGk4laR9cW7_SHPj2pD1ZFaLEphtMzFjxdI7TVdGky

Yep, this picture sums up his whole career. Worthless fat slug. I can't even think of one big play he ever made. Worst Chief's pick ever considering the compensation he got. :shake:

[KC_Lee]

Sims and Kendrell Bell....Madden All Stars....real life Chief turds...

[sedated]

YepI can't even think of one big play he ever made.

I believe he blew up a Broncos play on 4th and 1 to win a game (?)

[Halfcan]

I believe he blew up a Broncos play on 4th and 1 to win a game (?)

The only thing I remember seeing him blow up- was a plate of Zarda ribs.

[rico]

This football card just slays me. He must have insulted the photographer or something. Can you imagine becoming a pro football player and getting your own football card, and it looks like this?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJWijyrgLGk4laR9cW7_SHPj2pD1ZFaLEphtMzFjxdI7TVdGky

LMAO He looks like a sack of shit slowly tumbling out of a truck.

[rico]

"And that's the last time Sims was ever double-teamed."

ROFL

[Rain Man]

#33. Steve Fuller, QB, 1979. 23rd pick.

Believe it or not, this is the third quarterback on this list. Once upon a time, the Chiefs drafted first-round quarterbacks. They've just never been very good at it (until Patrick Mahomes II, of course, who is a first-ballot Hall of Famer).

Putting this in context, Len Dawson played until he was 40 years old. I didn't remember that at all. In the end, as we saw in the Woody Green discussion, Coach Paul Wiggin was actively rooting for someone to beat Dawson out of his starting spot. When Dawson finally headed off to the Hall of Fame, Mike Livingston was the heir, but he'd grown old waiting in the wings, so it was time for fresh blood.

There are the stories now of whether the 49ers were really interested in Steve Fuller. Bill Walsh denied it, but the Chiefs were wary enough of it that they put two high second-round picks into a trade up to draft Fuller. (They'd already used their first-round pick on Mike Bell, an effective but cocaine-snorting defensive end.) Marv Levy said that he was coerced into the tradeup by Jack Steadman, and that he would've been fine using one of his second-rounder on a guy named Joe Montana that he had a hunch about. But who knows? Everyone says now that they were interested in Montana.

Regardless of that story, the Chiefs traded up to get Fuller, and the 49ers waited until the third round to draft their own quarterback, and it worked out in their favor.

Fuller was handed the starting job quickly in 1979, starting 12 games as a rookie for a team that had gone 11-33 over the past three years. He did ... well, he was a rookie on a weak team. It wasn't pretty. But even so, the Chiefs finished 7-9, and they were 6-6 in the games that Fuller started. That's progress.

He came back in 1980 as the unquestioned starter, and actually played decently through 13 games. The Chiefs were 6-7 in that period, but Steve was holding his own. Unfortunately, he had a Wally Pipp moment in Week 13, hurting his knee. This forced Marv to start a low-round free agent the final three games, a guy named Bill Kenney. Bill went 2-1 in those games, with the offense producing an impressive 28 points per game with five touchdown passes, whereas Steve had been producing 18 points per game.

Suddenly it was competition going into training camp, and then bam - Fuller injured his knee again during preseason and required a second surgery. The job belonged to Kenney by default.

While Fuller rehabbed, it was Kenney's turn to be mediocre. But he had a lot of help from a rookie pro bowl running back named Joe Delaney, and he won 8 of his 13 starts. Fuller came back in Week 8, became the starter again in Week 14, and the Chiefs' offensive production once again dropped. The Chiefs averaged 25 points per game in Kenney's starts, and 10 points per game in Fuller's starts.

So now Levy was in a bind. Do you start the 1st round draft pick or the productive low-round guy? We had a full-blown quarterback controversy.

Levy waffled and the NFL went on strike in 1982, blowing up the process. Of the nine NFL games that year, Kenney started 6 and Fuller started 3. Kenney went 3-3 and Fuller went 0-3. Both played reasonably well, but Kenney produced double the passing yards per game. Kenney was initially the starter, then it was Fuller, then it was Kenney again. It was a mess.

But you have to put the best guy on the field, right?

It was now 1983. The Chiefs had a new coach, John Mackovic, and he had a pass-heavy philosophy. The upcoming NFL draft had quarterbacks oozing from every pore, so the Chiefs drafted a can't-miss prospect named Todd Blackledge for Mackovic's system. Kenney could hold the fort down cheaply until Blackledge took over, so Fuller was suddenly the third man down the depth chart. Mackovic jettisoned Fuller in a trade to the Rams for a one-year cornerback named Lucious Smith and a 5th-round draft pick. (Fuller may have been injured, too, because he doesn't show up on the Rams roster in 1983.) He ended his Kansas City era with 31 starts, a little more than 5,000 yards passing, and almost 900 yards rushing. Not a star, but not as horrible as he's remembered.

But never fear for Steve Fuller. In 1984, the Rams traded him to the Bears for a couple of low-round draft picks. Jim McMahon got hurt in Week 10 and Fuller ... caught ... fire. He was fantastic, despite the Bears only going 3-2 in that stretch, and then he also played well in the Bears' first playoff game, leading them to a win. It all blew up in the NFC championship game, though, when he was taken down by his draft twin Joe Montana.

Fuller suited up a couple more years for the Bears, getting spot duty whenever McMahon got hurt. He didn't play well when called upon, but even so, he got a Super Bowl ring and more importantly, he was one of the lead singers of the Super Bowl shuffle. One might objectively note that his performance in the Super Bowl shuffle was also subpar. I highly recommend watching the video. Steve is the non-rhythmic guy wearing jersey number 4.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pDlmgBK61cc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rasputin]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach that we passed on Joe Montana for Steve Fuller that should go down as worse than passing on Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge.

[patteeu]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach that we passed on Joe Montana for Steve Fuller that should go down as worse than passing on Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge.

We passed on Tom Brady for Darnell Alford, a guard from Boston College.

[Rain Man]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach that we passed on Joe Montana for Steve Fuller that should go down as worse than passing on Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge.

We'll never know how the Montana draft really went down. Everyone in San Francisco (other than maybe Steve Young) claims that they were the one who advocated for Montana. Levy claimed that he wanted Montana. Probably everyone on every other NFL team says they were wanting Montana.

But the only thing we know for sure is that every team in the league except the Redskins passed him over at least once, including the 49ers. Nine teams passed him over 4 or more times.

If it makes us feel better, the Chiefs only passed him over twice. Of course, that was because they gave up two second rounders to move up for Fuller, so maybe that's actually worse.

Here's how many opportunities each team had to draft Joe Montana, instead choosing another player.

Los Angeles Rams 5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5
Buffalo Bills 5
Miami Dolphins 5
St. Louis Cardinals 4
Atlanta Falcons 4
Chicago Bears 4
Cincinnati Bengals 4
Cleveland Browns 4
Seattle Seahawks 3
Detroit Lions 3
Green Bay Packers 3
Dallas Cowboys 3
Philadelphia Eagles 3
Houston Oilers 3
New York Jets 3
New Orleans Saints 2
Minnesota Vikings 2
New York Giants 2
Denver Broncos 2
Kansas City Chiefs 2
San Diego Chargers 2
Baltimore Colts 2
Pittsburgh Steelers 2
New England Patriots 2
San Francisco 49ers 1
Oakland Raiders 1
Washington Redskins 0

[Rain Man]

We passed on Tom Brady for Darnell Alford, a guard from Boston College.

Alford may have had a faster 40 time.

[Amnorix]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach that we passed on Joe Montana for Steve Fuller that should go down as worse than passing on Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge.

We passed on Tom Brady for Darnell Alford, a guard from Boston College.


Meh, the whole NFL passed on Montana at least twice, and Brady at least five times. NOBODY knew what those guys would turn out to be, including the teams that actually drafted them, so hard to fault any particular team for not taking him. Every team in the NFL "missed" on those guys repeatedly.

[stumppy]

I need more football info.

[Rain Man]

#32. Tyson Jackson, 2009. 3rd pick.

You may not remember Tyson Jackson, because we sure didn't know who he was in 2009 when was drafted. In fairness, though, much of the Chiefsplanet debate was Aaron Curry versus Mark Sanchez, so we can't really throw stones. But let's go ahead and throw stones.

2009 was a time of great change, coming at the end of a disastrous 2008 season where the Chiefs had their worst record in franchise history. Their only two wins of the year came against Denver and Oakland, which makes it kind of a successful year, but it was still a bad, bad year.

Clark Hunt was gaining his footing as an owner, and he cleaned house. GM Carl Peterson was ousted, and Herm Edwards and his defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham were also asked to leave. They had embraced a 4-3 defense, and the starting linemen in 2008 were Tamba Hali and Turk McBride at the ends and Glenn Dorsey and Tank Tyler at the tackles.

Clark strived for innovation, so he went out into the market aggressively. He hired two-time NFL Executive of the Year Scott Pioli to recreate the Patriot Way in Kansas City and brought in Todd Haley, the hot offensive coordinator of last year's NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals, to be the coach.

The new defensive coordinator was Clancy Pendergast, who was on a very different trajectory. He'd been the defensive coordinator for those same Cardinals, but he was fired after the Super Bowl. Haley swooped in and picked him up.

One of management's first tasks was to retool the defensive line from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Hali was moved back from defensive end to linebacker. Dorsey was moved out to a 3-4 end position. Turk was eventually cut in training camp (following Gunther to Detroit), and Tank was traded to Carolina mid-season in 2009 for a 5th round pick.

Backup Ron Edwards was elevated to a starting nose tackle position, but they needed another 3-4 end. And that was when Pioli got the bright idea to draft Tyson Jackson.

Jackson's consensus value was around the 20th pick when Scott Pioli went rogue, abandoning all reason and taking him while all of the draftniks were still popping open their first morning beer. Suddenly he was the third pick in the draft, and chaos broke loose. Or if not chaos, there were some perplexed looks.

He was given the starting job in 2009 and didn't impress.

In 2010 he hurt his knee on opening day and then couldn't dislodge testicle-grabbing Shaun Smith from the lineup when he returned.

In 2011 he was the starter and didn't impress.

In 2012 he was the starter and didn't impress.

In 2013 he took one of the largest pay cuts in the history of the world to stay on the team, lopping more than $10 million off of his 2013 salary: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/chiefs/2013/03/07/tyson-jackson-pay-cut/1970755/

At that point, the Pioli experiment was over and John Dorsey and Andy Reid came to town. They took one look at Jackson and sent him packing, letting Pioli sign him as a free agent in Atlanta.

All in all, Jackson was a Chief for five uneventful years, starting 55 games and amassing 137 tackles and 9 sacks. Those numbers sound a bit more impressive than what we saw on the field, following my theory that modern 1st round picks get a lot more time to prove themselves than did their forebears in the 1960s through 1980s. He's clearly capable of playing in the NFL, if not exactly excelling. I guess I'd describe him as dependably mediocre. Tyson continues to ride that train as he enters the 9th year of his NFL career.

Oh, and I forgot the picture. Here's Tyson Jackson knocking down a cardboard cutout of Phillip Rivers.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/San+Diego+Chargers+v+Kansas+City+Chiefs+MCJhk1uW5Xnl.jpg

[Amnorix]

The 2009 draft is famously weird. More pro bowlers in the 2nd half of the first round than the top half. Shady McCoy a late 2nd, long after the Broncos take Knowshown Moreno, the Colts take the immortal Donald Brown, and the Cardinals take the even more immortal Beanie Wells.

Not that any of that serves as an excuse but, yeah, weird draft.

[Rain Man]

The 2009 draft is famously weird. More pro bowlers in the 2nd half of the first round than the top half. Shady McCoy a late 2nd, long after the Broncos take Knowshown Moreno, the Colts take the immortal Donald Brown, and the Cardinals take the even more immortal Beanie Wells.

Not that any of that serves as an excuse but, yeah, weird draft.

Yeah, we call Tyson Jackson a bust around here, but he might be one of the top ten first-rounders taken that year. (Yeah, he was the third pick, so it's still a failure, but not like most of the other teams that year.)

Kenny Britt was the 30th pick of the first round that year, and he recently made me laugh. NFL Network is showing the Hard Knocks of the Rams, and this happened. Watch it, it's funny.

Brian Quick is mortified to be called out, but Kenny Britt is so dumb that he doesn't get it. He thinks it's hilarious, even though he was the one driving. That guy has neither a clue nor a way to keep it in the house if he did happen to find one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tiABsGuN1zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Amnorix]

Yeah, we call Tyson Jackson a bust around here, but he might be one of the top ten first-rounders taken that year. (Yeah, he was the third pick, so it's still a failure, but not like most of the other teams that year.)

Kenny Britt was the 30th pick of the first round that year, and he recently made me laugh. NFL Network is showing the Hard Knocks of the Rams, and this happened. Watch it, it's funny.

Brian Quick is mortified to be called out, but Kenny Britt is so dumb that he doesn't get it. He thinks it's hilarious, even though he was the one driving. That guy has neither a clue nor a way to keep it in the house if he did happen to find one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tiABsGuN1zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Yeah, he's your Ken Sims. The Patriots drafted Sims #1 overall in 1982 and he was widely considered a bust. But he played for 7 years and was a starter and solid contributor most of those years.

Ryan Leaf is a bust. Ken Sims and Tyson Jackson are overdrafted, but they're not really "busts" in my mind. If they're busts, what the hell is Leaf?

(Sorry, can't watch video currently but will circle back later to watch it).

[Rain Man]

#31. Victor Riley, RT, 1998. 27th pick.

Right tackle is historically an unsettled position for the Chiefs. Here are the primary starters at right tackle over the past 20 years:

2016 Mitchell Schwartz
2015 Jah Reid
2014 Ryan Harris
2013 Eric Fisher
2012 Eric Winston
2011 Barry Richardson
2010 Barry Richardson
2009 Ryan O'Callaghan
2008 Damion McIntosh
2007 Chris Terry
2006 Kyle Turley
2005 John Welbourn
2004 John Welbourn
2003 John Tait
2002 John Tait
2001 Marcus Spears
2000 Victor Riley
1999 Victor Riley
1998 Victor Riley
1997 Glenn Parker

Victor Riley's not looking so bad now, is he?

Victor was Marty's swan song, his final 1st round draft pick. It's poetic that he used it to draft a 6-5, 328 pound right tackle who carried significant portions of that weight in his belly. Bravo, Marty. Bravo!

Riley wasn't an all-pro by any means, but he came in, started as a rookie, and held down the starting job for 3.5 years, until an injury forced him out of the lineup at long last. He started 52 games, and while he wasn't a team strength, he wasn't a weakness. He was just plain ol' Victor Riley.

He left as a free agent, went to N'awlins, started for a couple of years, and also was a backup for a couple of seasons in N'awlins and Houston.

If he had played his whole career in KC, he'd be considered a solid but unspectacular pick. However, leaving in free agency drops him down into the 'disappointing' quadrant of picks. I don't understand why he's so frequently mentioned as one of the worst Chiefs picks; he was just plain ol' Victor Riley, who I suspect ate a lot of cheese curls and cheap beer during the offseason. You don't get a gut like that eating baked chicken.

http://www.setcelebs.com/images/victor-riley-01.jpg

[Rain Man]

Yeah, he's your Ken Sims. The Patriots drafted Sims #1 overall in 1982 and he was widely considered a bust. But he played for 7 years and was a starter and solid contributor most of those years.

Ryan Leaf is a bust. Ken Sims and Tyson Jackson are overdrafted, but they're not really "busts" in my mind. If they're busts, what the hell is Leaf?

(Sorry, can't watch video currently but will circle back later to watch it).

I'd label these guys as 'disappointing'. When I think about the 56 picks in Chiefs history, I'd have four quadrants

Top - Stars
Second - Solid
Third - Disappointing
Fourth - Busts

Guys like Tyson Jackson and Ken Sims fall solidly into the third quadrant in my mind, and kind of at the top end of that, which is exactly where Tyson ended up on my list.

[Rain Man]

#30. Dee Ford, OLB, 2014. 23rd pick.

I feel bad putting Ford at #30, because that falls into the "disappointing" quadrant, even if just barely. But you have to do what you have to do.

The truth is that Ford has been with the team for three years and he's made 19 starts. It's not fully his fault since Houston and Hali have been in front of him in the past, and he got 10.0 sacks last season in 14 starts. I feel like he'll produce if given the playing time.

If you look at the history of linebackers drafted between the 13th and 33rd pick in the draft over the time period from 1977 through 2007, those who were in their third year typically had an eight-year career. If you scale Dee up to eight years based on past performance, that'll be 51 starts and 41 sacks. That's not a disrespectable career by any means, but it's a little disappointing. The challenge, of course, is that he may not play a full eight years with Kansas City given free agency. He sees solid enough that I suspect he'll at least meet the average career length of eight years, though, and he could go further.

So the bottom line is that there are a lot of questions here. How long will his career be, how long will he be a Chief, and will he eventually get a full-time role? We don't really know. I think the risk is probably greater that he'll underperform these expectations than overperform, so I'm ranking him a bit lower than I'd like.

What do y'all think? If I gave an over/under of 51 starts and 41 sacks for a Chiefs career, do you think he'll outperform those or underperform?

He's got a good lean, apparently, as shown below. I really think that his challenge is not having an inside move. If he gets an inside move to match his speed move, he could really thrive in the NFL.

So in summary, I'm sorry, Dee. I want to rank you higher. Prove me wrong.

http://sportsnaut.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/USATSI_9643643_168380823_lowres-810x589.jpg

[rico]

#30. Dee Ford, OLB, 2014. 23rd pick.

I feel bad putting Ford at #30, because that falls into the "disappointing" quadrant, even if just barely. But you have to do what you have to do.

The truth is that Ford has been with the team for three years and he's made 19 starts. It's not fully his fault since Houston and Hali have been in front of him in the past, and he got 10.0 sacks last season in 14 starts. I feel like he'll produce if given the playing time.

If you look at the history of linebackers drafted between the 13th and 33rd pick in the draft over the time period from 1977 through 2007, those who were in their third year typically had an eight-year career. If you scale Dee up to eight years based on past performance, that'll be 51 starts and 41 sacks. That's not a disrespectable career by any means, but it's a little disappointing. The challenge, of course, is that he may not play a full eight years with Kansas City given free agency. He sees solid enough that I suspect he'll at least meet the average career length of eight years, though, and he could go further.

So the bottom line is that there are a lot of questions here. How long will his career be, how long will he be a Chief, and will he eventually get a full-time role? We don't really know. I think the risk is probably greater that he'll underperform these expectations than overperform, so I'm ranking him a bit lower than I'd like.

What do y'all think? If I gave an over/under of 51 starts and 41 sacks for a Chiefs career, do you think he'll outperform those or underperform?

He's got a good lean, apparently, as shown below. I really think that his challenge is not having an inside move. If he gets an inside move to match his speed move, he could really thrive in the NFL.

So in summary, I'm sorry, Dee. I want to rank you higher. Prove me wrong.

http://sportsnaut.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/USATSI_9643643_168380823_lowres-810x589.jpg

I think his ranking is fair. It's one of those deals where yeah, this is where he belongs now, but it could change.

Maybe a #30 with a "TBD" asterisk.

[rico]

Keep it up, Rain Man...I'm very thankful that you are taking the time to do this for the guys who are reading and enjoying this thread. Good stuff, man.

[stumppy]

Keep it up, Rain Man...I'm very thankful that you are taking the time to do this for the guys who are reading and enjoying this thread. Good stuff, man.

I'll second that. I really appreciate it ! Especially here at the end of the football drought.

[DaneMcCloud]

2014 is too soon to rank.

How would you rank Tamba Hali after 2008?

Derrick Johnson after 2007?

[Rain Man]

2014 is too soon to rank.

How would you rank Tamba Hali after 2008?

Derrick Johnson after 2007?

But I have no choice. He's a 1st round pick. I must complete my mission.

[Rain Man]

#29. Glenn Dorsey, DT, 2008. 5th pick.

See Tyson Jackson's entry at #32.

Dorsey is Jackson, Jackson is Dorsey. Probably the only difference is that everyone was thrilled to draft Dorsey at #5 and everyone was shocked to draft Jackson at #3.

He certainly didn't meet our high hopes for him, but viewed in context we could have done a lot worse. The next three picks off the board that year were Vernon Gholston, Sedrick Ellis, and Derrick Harvey. Next to that, Dorsey's 65 starts, 159 tackles, and 4 sacks isn't that bad.

He came in, started from Day One, and if nothing else he was reliable. He only missed three games during his first four years, and got moved from a 4-3 DT spot to a 3-4 DE spot during that time. But in 2012 he hurt his calf, missed a ton of games, and got put in IR, never to return. His career was summed up by this media note from The Sporting News: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/4285785-kansas-city-chiefs-injuries-both-lines-take-hit-with-injuries-to-glenn-dorsey-je


The Chiefs lost defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey and left guard Jeff Allen to injuries in Thursday night’s 31-13 loss to San Diego. It was unclear how long either player would be out but the Chiefs can probably plan on playing their next game on Nov. 12 against the Steelers without either player.

The loss of Dorsey, who reinjured a calf muscle, will be felt mostly on the depth chart. His replacement, Ropati Pitoitua, was more productive than Dorsey in the four games the Chiefs played without him.

Dorsey is an average run player who comes out of the lineup in obvious passing situations.

Yep, that's about it. An average run player who comes out on passing downs and isn't as productive as Ropati Pitoitua. You don't really want that written on your tombstone.

He moved on to San Francisco, and he typically plays about half the season every year due to injuries, averaging 9 starts per year for the 49ers. So we got his best years.

I mentioned earlier that we have 56 picks, and I would classify the third quarter (#29 through #42) as 'disappointing but not busts'. Dorsey almost makes it out of the 'disappointing' quadrant, because he gave the Chiefs a little more than four years of play. That's better than a lot of first-round picks, so mathematically he falls right at the average, but I'd think we'd all have a hard time not labeling him as disappointing.

And did anyone else think he was smaller than advertised? He had Kendrell Bell disease, where his stats list a certain height and weight and then you see him on the field and say 'no way.'

Here are pictures of his cars, just so you can leave this post feeling like he spent your ticket money wisely.

http://www.inetlocate.com/inetlocate_upload/927/gd1.JPG

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/sweetsugarbabie/IMG_4772.jpg

[jjchieffan]

Sorry RainMan. But I have to disagree with you putting Ford below Dorsey. Last season for Ford was better than any season that Dorsey ever had.

[Rain Man]

Sorry RainMan. But I have to disagree with you putting Ford below Dorsey. Last season for Ford was better than any season that Dorsey ever had.

Yeah, I was really torn about that. I really wanted to put Ford above Dorsey, but couldn't move beyond Dorsey's much larger number of starts. I'm also discounting for Ford potentially becoming a free agent at some point.

But yeah, Ford's best season is higher than Dorsey's best season, I agree. I could go either way.

[DaneMcCloud]

But I have no choice. He's a 1st round pick. I must complete my mission.

Personally, I feel that you should end at 2012.

Fisher, Ford and Peters are far from the end of their careers.

[Rain Man]

Personally, I feel that you should end at 2012.

Fisher, Ford and Peters are far from the end of their careers.

One can certainly make an argument for this. However, my die is cast.

According to my initial ranking metric, Marcus Peters is already in the top half of the list after only two years. That's what I call a successful draft pick.

[Halfcan]

One can certainly make an argument for this. However, my die is cast.

According to my initial ranking metric, Marcus Peters is already in the top half of the list after only two years. That's what I call a successful draft pick.

It is your thread, so do it how you want. I think you are doing a fine job ranking these picks. Very informative analysis. :clap:

[BlackOp]

Nice thread...and you're a good writer.

Ford was a better pick than Dorsey...considering Glenn was a #5 overall selection. Dee had 10 sacks last year. I cant recall Dorsey making a single impact play..he was like a phantom pick.

In fairness he was a 4-3 DT playing in the wrong scheme...but was pegged as the next Warren Sapp.

It gets overlooked... but Hali's transition to a 3-4 OLB was impressive. A lot of guys cant pull it off...

[Quesadilla Joe]

On Dee Ford...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2015: Beats nobody
2016: Beats bad players
2017: Beats good players too? <a href="https://t.co/0PVVc7tZEK">https://t.co/0PVVc7tZEK</a></p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/885156024935731200">July 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[BlackOp]

On Dee Ford...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2015: Beats nobody
2016: Beats bad players
2017: Beats good players too? <a href="https://t.co/0PVVc7tZEK">https://t.co/0PVVc7tZEK</a></p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/885156024935731200">July 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
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10 sacks is 10 sacks...if it were easy, everybody would be getting them.

[Rain Man]

I'll concede Dorsey for Ford. It's good for morale, too.

[Quesadilla Joe]

10 sacks is 10 sacks...if it were easy, everybody would be getting them.

Lorenzo Alexander and Erik Walden had 10+ sacks last year too...

[Rain Man]

#28. Brad Budde, LG, 1980. 11th pick.

I was in high school when this pick occurred, and I smelled a rat. Was it a legitimate football pick or was it a public relations move to draft the son of Chiefs legend Ed Budde? The #11 pick in the first round seemed like an expensive p.r. move.

The Chiefs swore that Budde's family lines had nothing to do with the selection, and Brad did have a good resume. He was an All-American and an academic All-American at USC, and he won the Lombardi trophy as the nation's top college lineman. He played alongside guys like Ronnie Lott and Marcus Allen, and appears to have lined up next to Anthony Munoz, which makes anybody better.

Regardless of the reason, the Chiefs drafted him. He was unable to dislodge Bob Simmons from the LG spot his rookie year. (Interestingly, Simmons had held off 1st rounder Rod Walters a few years earlier. He was the left guard version of Bill Kenney in that regard.) Budde later said that he didn't like the offensive line coach's blocking philosophy of "get close, grab, and hold on for dear life".

The Chiefs got a new punch-blocking line coach the next year, and Budde was happy. He won the starting job in 1981 and was a consistent starter through 1986, other than missing half the 1985 season with a "bruised shoulder". I think maybe that term downplayed the injury since he missed nine games with that bruise.

He actually played in the famous droughtbreaking 1986 playoff game as well, which would turn out to be his final Chiefs game.

As a really unusual factoid, center Jack Rudnay lined up next to Brad Budde as a starter for two years, and also lined up next to Brad's father Ed for five seasons.

Apparently he didn't get along well with the Raiders. Here's a news article from 1986: http://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/09/sports/sports-people-townsend-suspended.html

SPORTS PEOPLE; Townsend Suspended
Published: October 9, 1986

Commisoner Pete Rozelle announced yesterday that Greg Townsend, a defensive end for the Los Angeles Raiders, had been suspended without pay for this Sunday's game because of three ''flagrant'' fouls committed against three members of the Kansas City Chiefs last Sunday.

Townsend can appeal the suspension.

In a review of the game films, Townsend was cited by the commissioner for pursuing Brad Budde, a Kansas City guard, while the Chiefs had the ball in the second period and, at a point at least 15 yards from the ball carrier, striking Budde in the back and sparking a general melee. Townsend was also accused of stomping on the head of David Lutz, a Kansas City tackle, who had lost his helmet during the melee and was in a prone position on the field, and of grabbing the facemask of Mark Adickes, a Kansas City guard, and ultimately ripping the helmet from his head.

''All three of the above mentioned actions - particularly the last two, which involved the highly vulnerable head and neck areas - could have inflicted serious injury,'' Rozelle said. Adickes was later found to have a sprained neck that may keep him out of this week's game at Cleveland.

I remember that fight, and remember Howie Long cheap-shotting Brad during the fight. That may have been the dirtiest Raiders team to ever take the field, and is one of the main reasons I can't stand Howie Long, who is a dirty-playing, cheap-shotting son of a bus station whore.

Here's another story about it: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-12-13/sports/sp-2541_1_greg-townsend

A LOOK AT TWO OF SUNDAY'S RAM, RAIDER OPPONENTS : KANSAS CITY'S BRAD BUDDE : Ex-USC Star Has Learned to Lose Where Father Won
December 13, 1986|SAM McMANIS | Times Staff Writer

This, a skeptical Brad Budde was quickly assured, was not going to be another of those stories about how he has followed in his famous father's cleat marks to become an offensive lineman for the Kansas City Chiefs.

Honest, Brad, there will hardly be a mention of this being the only time in pro football history that a father and son were drafted in the first round by the same team--decades apart, of course. There might not even be space to reminisce about how Brad used to be a team water boy when his dad, Ed, played in the 1960s and '70s, the Chiefs' glory days.

"The father-and-son thing still is all I ever read about me, and I've learned to go along with it," said Budde, somewhat exasperated. "But there's a point in time when you get tired of those articles. I mean, I'm in my seventh year now. Talk about something else."

This time around, Budde has a lot to talk about, and it doesn't require cracking open the family album.

Budde, former All-American guard at USC, was one of the chief Chiefs involved in the fight when his team played the Raiders Oct. 5 at Kansas City. That fracas resulted in a one-game suspension for Raider defensive end Greg Townsend.

With the rematch looming Sunday at the Coliseum, Budde was asked for his thoughts on the rumble.

"This is the way I look at it," he said. "It's a violent game. And any player in the NFL gets off on making hits and being tough, and no one ever wants to be embarrassed. So, the fisticuffs, the shoving, the extra stuff that goes on, that's all part of the game.

"But when you cross the line of trying to, intentionally or not, inflict severe bodily harm, like when somebody's lying down and you strike them in the back, or pick them up and throw them down after a whistle, you've gone too far. You're talking about someone's livelihood out there. That's where you draw the line. Enough's enough."

What exactly happened in the melee late in the first half of the Raiders' 24-17 win at Kansas City differs, depending on which side is doing the explaining.

It began when the Chiefs executed a swing pass and Townsend pursued the play. Budde, the pulling guard, was on the ground, and Townsend either accidentally tripped over Budde (as Townsend says) or kicked him (as Budde says). Budde got to his feet and started swinging at Townsend, and then other players in the vicinity joined the scrap in hockey-brawl fashion.

Townsend claims that Mark Adickes, the Chiefs' center, then hit him from behind while Budde hit him from the front. Townsend then tore Adickes' helmet off as the brawl reached its peak.

The casualty report included Adickes, who had a twisted neck; Budde, who suffered a broken nose courtesy of Howie Long, and Townsend, who later suffered a severe dent in his wallet. Townsend's suspension cost him about $7,800, and Long was fined $2,000 for breaking Budde's nose. All told, nine Raiders were fined a total of $13,200.

Budde said the National Football League was justified in collecting fines.

"This is a game of passion, and you have 22 egomaniacs out there not wanting to show their weakness, but what they did crossed the line and went too far," Budde said.

The 6-foot 4-inch, 271-pound Budde says he wouldn't be surprised if there were skirmishes when the Raiders and Chiefs, both 8-6, meet again. "That's the way the Chiefs and Raiders always have played," he said.

Because his father was a Chief, Budde probably has followed the rivalry closer than most. He has seen the Kansas City franchise at its best, such as when the Chiefs beat Minnesota in the 1970 Super Bowl with Ed Budde at starting guard, and at its worst, such as last season, which ended with a 6-10 record.

But Budde, 27, does little to defuse speculation that he wants out of Kansas City after this season. Although he won't say that he will definitely seek a trade, Budde admits that he probably would be happier elsewhere. And the way the Chiefs have been filtering in younger linemen, Budde thinks the feeling may be mutual.

"I really don't know what the future holds for me as a Chief," he said. "I might not even be here next season. They are starting to shuffle people around on the line. I think everybody who plays wants to be appreciated. Maybe it's time for me to move on."

Perhaps one reason Budde doesn't like to talk about "the father-son thing" is that his career hasn't turned out quite as well as his dad's. In his first six years in Kansas City, the Chiefs had a 40-49 record.

If the Chiefs win their two remaining games, they will finish at 10-6, the club's best record during Budde's tenure. Kansas City hasn't made the playoffs since 1971.

In Budde's view, Kansas City fans have partly blamed him for the Chiefs' inability to win. After all, he is Ed's kid. And Ed played on only three losing teams in 13 seasons.

It seems that Budde was getting tired of life in KC, and then got on the outs with Frank Gansz when he did his offseason training in southern California instead of Kansas City. He then tore an abdominal muscle in 1987 training camp, missed the season, got cut prior to 1988, and then tried out and got cut by ... the Raiders.

(Sigh.) Brad, you are a lesser man than your father.

Overall, Brad started 79 games for the Chiefs, so you can't write him off. I just retain my main memory of him in that brawl getting chicken-punched by that piece of human feces named Howie Long, and that's not a great memory. He was an (pause) okay (pause) player, but in retrospect, I don't think it was good for anybody that the Chiefs drafted him instead of another team.

Here's a picture of Brad. Or maybe it's Ed. But Brad signed it, so it's probably Brad.

http://www.mainlineautographs.com/images/product_pics/BUDDE0001_20110505974.gif

[patteeu]

#29. Glenn Dorsey, DT, 2008. 5th pick.

See Tyson Jackson's entry at #32.

Dorsey is Jackson, Jackson is Dorsey. Probably the only difference is that everyone was thrilled to draft Dorsey at #5 and everyone was shocked to draft Jackson at #3.

He certainly didn't meet our high hopes for him, but viewed in context we could have done a lot worse. The next three picks off the board that year were Vernon Gholston, Sedrick Ellis, and Derrick Harvey. Next to that, Dorsey's 65 starts, 159 tackles, and 4 sacks isn't that bad.

I read somewhere that Vernon Gholston is going to be a stud.

[patteeu]

It is your thread, so do it how you want. I think you are doing a fine job ranking these picks. Very informative analysis. :clap:

I think he should have had 5 quadrants: Successful, mediocre, and bust. But like you say, it's his thread.

[Rain Man]

I think he should have had 5 quadrants: Successful, mediocre, and bust. But like you say, it's his thread.

I need exactly equal segments. With 56 first-rounders, I either need 4 quadrants or 7 septants.

Is septants a word?

[KC_Lee]

Is septants a word?

It's some sort of song...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HD3dFR50jiQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jjchieffan]

I need exactly equal segments. With 56 first-rounders, I either need 4 quadrants or 7 septants.



I disagree. To divide them into quadrants would say that there have been exactly the same number of bust as stars and disappointing and solid players drafted. Can you really name the 14th player a star, while naming the 15th solid? is the 28th really a solid player, while the 29th is truly disappointing? Was number 43 really a bust, or was he just disappointing? I mean, like others have said, it's your research. Do it how you like. I am really enjoying it. I'm just saying that you could have had varying group sizes if you wanted to.

[patteeu]

I need exactly equal segments. With 56 first-rounders, I either need 4 quadrants or 7 septants.

Is septants a word?

I don't know, but I was just making an innumerate* joke. :)

_____
* Not sure innumerate is the right word

[Rain Man]

#27. John Tait, OT, 1999. 14th pick.

If you don't like John Tait listed here, you can sit the f**k down and shut the f**k up.

Let's get the agent thing out of the way first. There are contentious negotiations, and Tait's agent is a n00b and Carl's Hubris was at its peak. Here's what the news articles said: http://cjonline.com/stories/090199/chi_tait01.shtml#.WWmEnITyvIV

When the two sides could not resolve the issue, Lock said an angry Peterson told Tait, "This is an embarrassment, you've haven't even put on the (bleep) pads. If you don't like it, you can go back in the (bleep) draft."

Lock said he angrily advised Peterson not to talk that way around his 24-year-old client, and that Peterson responded by telling Lock to "sit the (bleep) down." At that point, Lock said he broke off the meeting with an expletive of his own.

If you don't remember, Tait was a devout Mormon and apparently had never heard curse words or something.

Afterward, we got this story, which affected Tait's entire career with the Chiefs: http://cjonline.com/stories/090299/spo_tait.shtml#.WWmCVoTyvIU

Carl Peterson wants to sit down with rookie holdout John Tait and his family. The Taits apparently are willing to entertain the Kansas City Chiefs president in their Phoenix home.

Ethan Lock, the agent for Tait who harshly criticized Peterson both as a person and a professional after their negotiating session Tuesday ended in a shower of profanities, said Wednesday that no meeting had been set between Peterson and the Tait family.

Alan Tait, John Tait's father, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he would be willing to meet with Peterson, who called him that night and apologized for profane language he used in that afternoon's meeting. Peterson said he wanted to visit the Taits personally this weekend either before or after the Chiefs play in San Diego on Friday.

"I told Carl, first of all, that we accept his apology. I believe he's being sincere," Alan Tait said. "The main thing is for him to come back here and talk with Ethan Lock. My wife and I will look forward to getting the chance to meet him.

Five years later, when Tait left KC and went to the Bears, check out this statement in the Chicago Tribune: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-03-14/sports/0403140376_1_lavell-edwards-john-tait-bears

Peterson apologized but never followed through with an offer to visit Tait's parents in Arizona, a point members of Tait's camp drove home last week when media reports recounted that ugly episode.

On Chiefsplanet, we were pondering if Tait would leave, and I remember rumors of Miami. We pondered that he wouldn't go to Miami because a pure Mormon would never want to be around bikini-clad women who weren't his wives. But it turned out that Carl's broken promise was a big factor.

Enough of the off-field stuff. Tait's holdout cost him much of his rookie season and he only started three games. He finally got the starting left tackle role in 2000 and was ... okay... for a couple of years. He definitely made his share of mistakes. So when Joe Horn got caught creeping inside a house and a woman that was not his own down in New Orleans, the Chiefs invested a mere fourth-round pick to sign the largest ship in the fleet, the USS Willie Roaf.

Roaf lumbered into camp, picked Tait up by the back of the neck, and gently set him down in the right tackle spot. Tait never made a pro bowl, but for a couple of years he was the right tackle on perhaps the greatest offensive line in NFL history, and he held his own.

But then the Bears came calling, and he remembered that King Carl never visited his parents. He went to the Bears, moved back to the left side, and played five more years. He even got to play in a Super Bowl, albeit with Rex Grossman so it doesn't really count.

Overall, Tait had a workmanlike 10-year career. His five years with the Chiefs produced 66 starts and the highest career yards per carry in Chiefs history. Because you know I'm not going talk about John Tait without sharing this clip (and by the way, it was a mistake on his part to run out of bounds even though it was a good play otherwise):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AOfUBG0pKjk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[patteeu]

Have we had a better right tackle since John Tait left? It's a shame he didn't stick around a couple more years.

[Rain Man]

Have we had a better right tackle since John Tait left? It's a shame he didn't stick around a couple more years.

I'd posted this earlier in the Victor Riley post, but ... no, we haven't. Let's see if Mitchell Schwartz can break the pattern.

As an aside, I was always impressed by the size of John Welbourn. The stats say he wasn't bigger than a normal right tackle, but I swear he always looked bigger than everyone else on the field.

http://fitfemaleforty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/JRW1.jpg

2016 Mitchell Schwartz
2015 Jah Reid
2014 Ryan Harris
2013 Eric Fisher
2012 Eric Winston
2011 Barry Richardson
2010 Barry Richardson
2009 Ryan O'Callaghan
2008 Damion McIntosh
2007 Chris Terry
2006 Kyle Turley
2005 John Welbourn
2004 John Welbourn
2003 John Tait
2002 John Tait
2001 Marcus Spears
2000 Victor Riley
1999 Victor Riley
1998 Victor Riley
1997 Glenn Parker

[Rain Man]

I'm watching that clip again, and it's fun to see how Roaf and Waters immediately went into power sweep mode once Tait got the ball. Those guys were made for the power sweep.

Priest is out front there, too, but he seems to have no idea what to do when he's not carrying the ball.

[Rain Man]

I hesitate to mention it, but Wiegman was holding really blatantly on that play. He got lucky that it wasn't called.

[patteeu]

I hesitate to mention it, but Wiegman was holding really blatantly on that play. He got lucky that it wasn't called.

I've had enough. Welcome to my ignore list!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How bout the tight end we drafted got cut in camp and then went to prison for murder?

How many fucking murderers have the goddamned Chiefs employed?

[DaneMcCloud]

How many fucking murderers have the goddamned Chiefs employed?

Well, Jim Tyrer lost it and killed his wife and himself 1980.

If not, he'd probably be a HOFer.

[DaneMcCloud]

Elmore was a second-rounder, though I'll nod that he would be the lowest-ranked second-rounder on that whole list.

Chiefs lose to the Patriots again.

Hernandez was a 4th rounder.

[BlackOp]

I hesitate to mention it, but Wiegman was holding really blatantly on that play. He got lucky that it wasn't called.

Damn..went back and re-watched it. It reminded me of the Tampa game last year...the Bucs were holding with impunity.

[milkman]

Well, Jim Tyrer lost it and killed his wife and himself 1980.

If not, he'd probably be a HOFer.

Probably?

When he retired he was widely considered to be the best to ever have played the game.

[oldman]

I really don't care how you break it down, Rainman, this has been an enjoyable thread. And Milkman is correct, Tyrer should be in the HOF.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Probably?

When he retired he was widely considered to be the best to ever have played the game.

People just don't realize how rare a 6'6 athletic lineman was such a freak of his time. The chiefs of back then seemed to have a lot of players like that just off the charts athleticism for their size. That is one of the reasons the chiefs were one of the most fun teams to watch back then. I like that they seem headed in that direction again.

[Rain Man]

I've had enough. Welcome to my ignore list!

Now you'll never know who #11 is.

[stumppy]

Now you'll never know who #11 is.

I'm going to hold my breath until you post it.

[patteeu]

Did someone say something? LMAO

[Rasputin]

Now you'll never know who #11 is.

He can't ignore people who quote ignored people.

[patteeu]

He can't ignore people who quote ignored people.

You'll quote the #11 post for me, won't you?

[Rasputin]

You'll quote the #11 post for me, won't you?


Maybe

[Rain Man]

I really don't care how you break it down, George, this has been an enjoyable thread. And Milkman is correct, Tyrer should be in the HOF.

Here's an interesting bit of Jim Tyrer trivia I never knew. He was drafted by the Chiefs (technically, the Texans) in 1961, and played for the Chiefs until 1974, making at one point 180 straight starts. After 10 straight seasons as a pro bowler or all-pro, he wasn't named in the 1972 and 1973 seasons, but was still playing. The Chiefs thought he was wearing down, so they traded him for three picks before the 1974 season.

Interestingly, though, the picks carried forward. He was traded for a 1975 draft pick (8th round), 1976 draft pick (6th round), and 1977 draft pick (4th round).

He went to the Redskins for one year and apparently was miserable there, so he retired.

The Chiefs' 1975 and 1976 picks didn't make the roster. Their 1977 pick was a cornerback named Eric Harris. Harris immediately signed with the Canadian Football League, but three years later he returned to the United States and the Chiefs had his rights. He was a three-year starter for the Chiefs from 1980 through 1982.

In 1983, the Chiefs were desperate for a running back (remember Joe Delaney), so they traded Eric Harris to the Rams for a running back named Jewerl Thomas. Thomas played sparingly for the Chiefs in 1983.

At the beginning of the 1984 preseason, Jewerl was no longer needed, so the Chiefs traded him to the Chargers for a 7th round pick in 1985. Unfortunately, the chain ends here because they drafted Vince Thomson, who didn't make the team.

But in the end, isn't that cool? The Chiefs' 3rd round pick in 1961 was still producing trade value in 1985.

[jjchieffan]

Here's an interesting bit of Jim Tyrer trivia I never knew. He was drafted by the Chiefs (technically, the Texans) in 1961, and played for the Chiefs until 1974, making at one point 180 straight starts. After 10 straight seasons as a pro bowler or all-pro, he wasn't named in the 1972 and 1973 seasons, but was still playing. The Chiefs thought he was wearing down, so they traded him for three picks before the 1974 season.

Interestingly, though, the picks carried forward. He was traded for a 1975 draft pick (8th round), 1976 draft pick (6th round), and 1977 draft pick (4th round).

He went to the Redskins for one year and apparently was miserable there, so he retired.

The Chiefs' 1975 and 1976 picks didn't make the roster. Their 1977 pick was a cornerback named Eric Harris. Harris immediately signed with the Canadian Football League, but three years later he returned to the United States and the Chiefs had his rights. He was a three-year starter for the Chiefs from 1980 through 1982.

In 1983, the Chiefs were desperate for a running back (remember Joe Delaney), so they traded Eric Harris to the Rams for a running back named Jewerl Thomas. Thomas played sparingly for the Chiefs in 1983.

At the beginning of the 1984 preseason, Jewerl was no longer needed, so the Chiefs traded him to the Chargers for a 7th round pick. Unfortunately, the chain ends here because they drafted Vince Thomson, who didn't make the team.

But in the end, isn't that cool? The Chiefs' 1st round pick in 1961 was still producing trade value in 1985.

That is pretty cool RainMan. Rep!

[Rain Man]

That is pretty cool RainMan. Rep!

Oh, and the other interesting, if tragic, snippet is that Tyrer had been dead for almost five years when the last trade was made.

[Rain Man]

#26. Mo Moorman, G, 1968. 19th pick.

65 Toss Power Trap put Mike Garrett in the end zone in Super Bowl IV, a play that made Hank Stram chortle with glee.

It wasn't just 65 Toss Power. The 'trap' was essential, and the 'trap' was RG Mo Moorman. He was a second-year right guard, coming around to quite successfully make the trap block.

In keeping with right guards, Mo must have been low key, because it's hard to find much information about his Chiefs career. We can tell that college was a challenge, though. He was drafted from Texas A&M, but actually started his college career at Kentucky. He didn't like their conditioning program, and transferred to A&M. He had to sit out for a year, then became an All-America tackle before being moved to guard. He was the lead blocker for A&M's bread and butter play and went in on defense in goal-line situations, so all seemed great.

However, Moorman was kind of an idiot and screwed it up. Here's the newspaper article from 1967: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/29994395/

The saga of Mighty Mo was at an end today so far as Texas AM was concerned--Maurice Moorman's college career in football was over. The huge tackle, once called by Coach Gene Stalling: "the greatest lineman in the country," was dismissed from the squad Thursday for failing to attend classes. Moorman came a hero from Louisville after playing as a freshman at Kentucky. He had to lay out a year under the transfer rule and became eligible for the varsity in (illegible).

Stories of what he could do and would do preceded him. He lived up lo expectations when he made the All-Soulh-wcsl Conference team and landed on several All-Americas. He also became a prime target of the pros. This season, however, he has played only average football. But it was cutting classes that got him in trouble. Stallings announced Thursday that he and Max Clark, a reserve fullback, were both dismissed. Clark also was taken off the squad tor failing lo attend classes. They're dropped for only one year but that meant the end of college football for Moorman, who is a senior. Clark, a sophomore, has two more years.

"Texas A&M University is an educational institution that is represented in intercollegiale football by student-athletes," said Stallings. "These two young men were not attending classes regularly and they have been dismissed from the squad." Stallings would make no further comment.

Moorman refused to discuss the situation with newsmen by telephone, but the Houston Post sent a writer here and Moorman talked. "There's nothing else Coach Stallings could do," Moorman said, admitting that he had cut classes. "I didn't have any reason. I just didn't particularly like to attend class. I never thought they'd kick me off the team--not for missing classes. Coach Stallings asked me personally not to miss them. I just took too much tor granted."

Moorman said he would stay in school and try to get bs degree. He also said, "If I get a chance to play pro football, I'm going to take advantage of it."

So the guy missed his senior year, but the Chiefs still drafted him. Weirdly, they had two first-round picks that year and drafted two right guards, so Moorman had to compete with George Daney for the job. But he won it and never gave it up, starting consistently from his rookie year.

He never actually played a full season due to injuries, but he generally only missed one game a year, so he piled up a total of 57 starts over 6 years, plus one key Super Bowl block.

However, his drama about picking teams didn't completely end at college, though it wasn't his fault. In 1971, he had a serious enough injury that he missed almost half the season. From what I can figure out, there wasn't an injured reserve, so players were put in "injured waivers". They were technically eligible to be claimed by another team within the first 24 hours, but it never happened because the other team would then have to give an injured player an active roster spot, and there were fewer roster spots than we have now.

Well, the Boston Patriots apparently liked Mo. They immediately made a waiver claim on him and suddenly he was a Patriot.

But the Chiefs didn't want him to be a Patriot, so they sent an emissary to the Patriots to get him back. Because the Patriots had formally acquired his rights, the Chiefs were forced to pay blackmail, and ended up giving the Patriots a second-round pick to get their own player back. I envision that the Chiefs and Patriots met at a bridge on the East German border, the Chiefs threw a suitcase with the draft pick in it toward the Patriots, and then a bound and blindfolded Mo Moorman stumbled across the bridge into friendly territory. Stupid Belichick - always gaming the system to rip off other teams.

He played a couple more years for the Chiefs, but in the end he got dinged too often and just didn't want to deal with it any more. He retired after spending six years with the Chiefs and one day handcuffed to a basement radiator with the Patriots.

Here's Mo (#76) making an awkward but effective block in Super Bowl IV.

http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20160126_041751_SB_IV_01.jpg?w=444

[stumppy]

Whew.....never holding my breath that long again.

[Rain Man]

If you're older, you may remember Danny Abramowicz, a notoriously slow but productive wide receiver for the Saints. In his book, https://books.google.com/books?id=b7jlDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22mo+moorman%22,+retirement&source=bl&ots=WEEaVilbSI&sig=0npfxmc1lrJ9dRKFV5B9etQ6Z44&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDtf6vuIzVAhXpzIMKHVkJBCc4ChDoAQgjMAA#v=onepage&q=%22mo%20moorman%22%2C%20retirement&f=false he told of being on his college freshman team and being told to punt in a game against Kentucky's freshman team.

Disobeying the coach, he told a teammate to go out in a pattern and he'd throw it to him instead. He tried it, but Mo Moorman burst through the line, deflected the pass, and then intercepted it. After finally gang-tackling Moorman, Abramowicz returned to the sidelines to face his coach, who was a former Marine.

The coach ordered a number of players to stand around Abramowicz to block the specators' view, and then, in Abramowicz' words, "he punched me in the guts a few times. I deserved it!"

Football sensibilities have changed a bit since the 1960s.

[MatriculatingHank]

If you're older, you may remember Danny Abramowicz, a notoriously slow but productive wide receiver for the Saints.

He was the ONLY help offered Archie Manning as the Saint's QB.

[patteeu]

Wow. Times have changed.

[Rain Man]

#25. Aaron Brown, DE, 1966. 6th pick.

I'll start off with a little personal story regarding Aaron Brown.

I was nine or ten years old, living in southern Missouri. One day, my dad said, "Come with me. I've got a surprise for you."

A surprise? Sure thing. First, I would have gotten into a stranger's Econoline van with a line like that. Who doesn't like a surprise? And second, I knew my dad must have had something great in store, because this was not his usual modus operendi.

So we got in the car and drove across town. I inquired about the surprise, but he remained mum. Eventually, the blinker went on and we pulled into a car dealership.

A car dealership? To my childlike mind, this could mean only one thing. He was giving me a dune buggy! A dune buggy! Just like the ones I saw on TV. I would take it out into the country and leap over dunes and ...

It wasn't a dune buggy.

We walked into the lobby and there was a slightly larger than average guy in there with a receding hairline. He was wearing classic hip 1970s clothes and was just standing there. My dad took me up to him and the two shook hands. I began to wonder if perhaps the dune buggy thing could still happen.

The guy then looked at me and held out his hand. "Hi there," he said. "I'm Mike Livingston, quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs."

I stood there stunned. This was southern Missouri. The most famous person I'd met up to that time was a kid at my school who had once kicked a kickball over the fence. And here I was, shaking hands with a Kansas City Chief?

It was such a momentous event that I decided not to call him out on his false claim. We all knew - me, him, and my dad - that he was not the quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs, but rather the backup quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs. Backup was amazing, no doubt about it, but it's like claiming you're Batman when you're really Robin.

Anyway, I was a very shy child. I whispered a hello and then just stood there staring at him. Even at that time I was honing my technique of making social interactions as awkward and uncomfortable as possible. So my dad, a personable and outgoing fellow, stepped in.

"So Mike," he said, "what do you think about that Aaron Brown trade?"

We all knew about the Aaron Brown trade. He'd been a Chief for as long as I'd been a fan, and suddenly he was a Packer, departing in return for an offensive tackle that I scarcely knew.

"Well," Mike Livingston responded, "you hate to see a good player go, but sometimes it just has to happen."

"Yup."

"Yup."

I stood there looking at my dad. What are you doing, I thought to myself. This is a Chief. Sure, he's a backup, but he's a Chief. You don't just make casual conversation with a Chief. They had to be on the constant lookout for Raiders, and they had to practice and stuff.

My dad chatted with him for a few minutes and then I got a Polaroid picture taken with Mike Livingston, and then we left, with me never saying a word other than a whispered 'hello'. Because that's how I rolled.

Anyway, back to Aaron Brown. Odd story about Aaron. He was an all-America defensive end at Minnesota, but he broke his jaw early in his senior year. The Gophers moved him to tight end because they thought he was less likely to get hit in the face, and he played offense most of the year.

Hank Stram drafted him as a defensive end, but was satisfied with his starters, Jerry Mays and Chuck Hurston. Aaron was big and fast, so Hank made him a fullback. You can read a little about it here in an old Ames newspaper article: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/54595664/

Stram, of course, does not expect Brown to knock starting fullback Curtis McClinton out of his job. But if Brown does develop into a reliable fullback, it would give the Chiefs added depth and would allow Stram to use Gene Thomas, another promising running back, at halfback or possibly flanker. There aren't many teams in professional football with as much backfield depth as the Chiefs. Brown would give them even more.

"Besides," says the inventive Stram, "where can you find a fullback his size who can run as fast as he can?"

Nowhere. spent the season on the bench. [Rain man note: something didn't scan right.] To Hank Stram, a 6 - 5, 275 - pound benchwarmer is a waste. Thus, the decision to make Brown a fullback. "I knew Aaron was a good offensive player," Stram says, "because he was a tight end in college. That meant he had to have good hands and he had to be a good blocker. He also played fullback in high school so why not take a chance and play him there now?"

He was apparently in uniform in Super Bowl I, though I can't tell if he played offense or defense or anything at all. And as would be expected converting a large defensive end to running back, Brown eventually got injured. Wikipedia described it as "callouses on his thighs", and I have no idea how that would happen or what its impacts are, but Aaron was on the injury list his entire second year.

He returned in 1968 and was a defensive end again. He battled Chuck Hurston for a starting spot, though I can't tell who eventually won, and he became a pass rushing beast. If you like the Chiefs' Super Bowl win, thank Aaron Brown. He recorded 2.5 sacks in the AFL championship game against the Raiders, recorded another sack in Super Bowl IV, and knocked Vikings quarterback Joe Kapp out of the game for good with another hit. Despite this performance, he wasn't the starter in the Super Bowl, but he came through.

All in all, Aaron played seven seasons with the Chiefs if you count the one injury year. I can't get a full count on his starts, but he played consistently and he was at his best in the biggest games.

As his career wound down, the Chiefs needed an offensive tackle to replace the retiring Dave Hill, and an up and coming Wilbur Young was playing well at defensive end. They traded Aaron to the Packers for tackle Francis Peay, giving my dad some conversation fodder with Mike Livingston at that car dealership.

Peay gave the Chiefs two years with ten starts, while Brown gave the Packers two years with only one start.

So the summary of Aaron Brown is that he was misused early on and never made a pro bowl, but he played big when he needed to. He has a valued spot in Chiefs lore.

Sadly, he died young. In 1997, at age 54, he was on his way to a party with his wife when his car broke down. He started to walk for help, but was hit by a car. RIP to a Super Bowl Chief: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-11-18/sports/9711180357_1_aaron-brown-houston-super-bowl

Aaron was #87 at RDE. If you're good enough to take the field with the rest of the guys in this picture, you're good enough. There's an entire wing of Canton in there.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2e/dd/d5/2eddd5e484191aedcf2d8bd2a25e1791--kansas-city-chiefs-jerry-oconnell.jpg

[Rain Man]

#24. Branden Albert, LT, 2008. 15th pick.

The year was 2008. Jared Allen was gone, and he had scattered draft seeds all over the place before his departure. Chiefsplanet was excited because we had two draft picks and had managed to nab Glenn Dorsey with the first one. Glenn Dorsey! Our next pick, the #17 was rapidly approaching.

Honestly, I don't remember if there was any consensus about the #17 pick. Albert was on the board and highly rated, though there were questions about whether he was a guard or tackle. I vaguely recall some enthusiasm for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, and maybe there was a voice or two wanting Flacco. Anyone remember?

But Albert was a can't miss prospect. He was the #1 guard on the board by a mile, and perhaps the #2 lineman on the board. Ryan Clady had gone to the Broncos with the #12 pick, but we all knew that he was terrible.

The Chiefs at the time had Damion McIntosh at left tackle and Chris Terry at right tackle. Kyle Turley had been lined up at right tackle but didn't last the season. So the Chiefs needed help.

Interestingly, the Chiefs must have liked Albert a lot more than Gosder Cherilus. The Lions held the #15 pick, and apparently liked both of them. The Chiefs gave up the #17 pick, along with a 3rd round and 5th round pick, to trade up to #15, also getting a third rounder in the deal. They wanted Albert and they went and got him. Two picks later, the Lions picked Cherilus and both teams got a tackle.

The Chiefs birthed Branden Albert from the tragedy of Jared Allen, and he walked into opening day as the starter at left tackle. For the next seven years we got to see generally strong play, punctuated by frequent flailing on the ground with injuries that appeared life-threatening based on Albert's reaction, only to see him take the field again two plays later. He was a very good player with the pain threshold of an anorexic hemophiliac.

But that was just drama. The bottom line is that he very adequately manned the left tackle position for six seasons, and even made a pro bowl in his final year as a Chief. This is the first Chief on our list who was named to a pro bowl.

In the end, Branden Albert started 83 games at left tackle for the Chiefs before bolting for the sun and sand of the Miami Dolphins. He averaged about 14 games per year, so some of his injury flailing was real, I guess, and while he wasn't a superstar he definitely held down his position. The acquisition of Eric Fisher spelled an end to his days as a Chief, along with some apparent whining about not wanting to play right tackle.

The Dolphins eventually traded him to the Jaguars, and he's apparently mad about that since he didn't show up at OTAs and won't talk to the team. Branden is kind of high-maintenance.

Here's a picture of Branden Albert for you. I'm sure he was back on the field two plays later:

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/130/files/2013/12/79498683.jpg

[Rasputin]

He would have been better off going to RT for his career even if it was a little pay cut.

[patteeu]

He would have been better off going to RT for his career even if it was a little pay cut.

Left guard! And then we could have drafted LT Eugene Monroe the next year (instead of Tyson Jackson) to get the UVA band back together. /TIC

[Rain Man]

#23. Larry Johnson, RB, 2003. 27th pick.

You know him, you love him, he runs angry. I always wondered if part of that is due to the fact that he was a small child in the locker room at Penn State. But let's not go there.

The year was 2003. The Chiefs had the 16th pick in the draft, and the best player on the board was a shaggy safety prospect named Troy Polamalu. In 2002, the Chiefs had the #1 offense in the league and the #28 defense, so it seemed like a marriage made in heaven.

However, Greg Robinson was the defensive coordinator, so the #28 rank was about as good as it could get. And Al Saunders was the offensive coordinator, so we were confident that he could do better than #1.

So Dick and Carl traded down. The Steelers got Polamalu, and the Chiefs got the #27 pick, along with a third round and sixth round pick. They waited patiently as a bunch of mediocre players were drafted, and then #27 came up.

The Chiefs had Priest Holmes at running back, who had just gained 2,200 total yards at a 5.2 ypc clip rushing, and he had scored 24 touchdowns. Their cornerbacks were Eric Warfield and William Bartee. Available players included Larry Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha, and Charles Tillman.

The Chiefs selected Larry.

What the - ?

The pick may not have been quite as inexplicable as drafting two right guards with first round picks in 1968, but it was close. If we're being honest with ourselves, Larry got screwed. A gorilla-sized Barry Sanders couldn't take any carries away from 2003 Priest Holmes. It was impossible.

Larry sat on the bench and stewed for the better part of two years, until Priest finally got cheapshotted by a Bronco. Then he came in and unleashed the hounds of hell. Over the next two seasons, he carried the ball 752 times for 3,539 yards, and just for fun he added another 753 yards receiving. He crossed the goal line 40 times in those two years, including epic touchdowns to beat the Raiders and to plant a flag in the end zone. Let me tell you, patna, he was cakin'.

But we all know how the rules work. He went over 400 carries in 2006, which required him to get injured in 2007. He went down, Priest was still hurt, and the Chiefs turned to Kolby Smith. In 2008, Larry was healthy again, but a star appeared in the eastern sky and Running Back Wise Men brought gold, franks 'n' cense, and beer to the parents of Jamaal Charles. Larry lasted another season and half, called somebody a homophobic slur, and found himself traveling through Cincinnati, Washington, and Miami over the next two years.

All in all, he was a Chief for a surprisingly long time. 7.5 years from start to finish, and the majority of it was spent in limbo. Some might say that's mediocre. But for two seasons, he was a white-hot red-clad star flashing across the night sky. He was a two-time pro bowler, one-time all pro, and added over 6,000 rushing yards to Chiefs history at a strong 4.4 clip. He's the Chiefs' all-time leader in rushing attempts, ranks 3rd in rushing yards, and ranks 2nd in rushing touchdowns.

Looking at it that way, it seems like maybe he should be higher. It was only two years, but what a fine two years those were. Here's a picture of Larry for you as he scores the dramatic game-winning touchdown against the Raiders:

http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/11/07/RAIDERS_CHIEFS1___bw_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc

[Rasputin]

I wish we had 4 better than Larry Johnson so he could have been #27 on the list in spite.

[Rasputin]

It would have been a record or tied with a record but I remember in preseason against the St. Louy Rams he rushed up the middle and darted 99 yards for a touchdown. Unfortunately they don't hold preseason achievements. It was freaking cool.

[BlackOp]

As vacant as KC has been on the QB front...they have had an embarrassment of riches when it comes to RB.

Jockeying from Holmes to Johnson to Charles....shit, Ware is the worst RB KC has had in almost 2 decades.

[rockymtnchief]

Didn't Priest get cheap-shotted by Merriman (SD)?

Good stuff, Rain Man. Keep'em coming!

[Rain Man]

Didn't Priest get cheap-shotted by Merriman (SD)?

Good stuff, Rain Man. Keep'em coming!

He did, but that was the second one. He got dragged down by a Bronco after a long run, which hurt his hip. I don't specifically remember whether the injury was a dirty hit or not, but since it was a Bronco I'm playing the odds.

[KC_Lee]

He did, but that was the second one. He got dragged down by a Bronco after a long run, which hurt his hip. I don't specifically remember whether the injury was a dirty hit or not, but since it was a Bronco I'm playing the odds.

The was a collective gasp by the entire Chiefs' fan base as the hit looked exactly like the one the ended Bo Jackson's career. I remember it clearly.

[stumppy]

He did, but that was the second one. He got dragged down by a Bronco after a long run, which hurt his hip. I don't specifically remember whether the injury was a dirty hit or not, but since it was a Bronco I'm playing the odds.

I think that Donco cheap shot is one that led to the 'Horse collar tackle ' rule.
If not the one, one a a few.

[Rain Man]

#22. Patrick Mahomes II, QB, 2017. 10th pick.

Based on his resume, I'd have to rate him just above Gale Sayers in the #54 spot. But based on expectations, I'd have to put him at #1. So I went to statistics.

Quarterbacks drafted between 1977 and 2007 in the #5 to #15 spots in the draft averaged about 9 years in the league, 5 years of starting, 1.xx pro bowls, and a smidgeon of all pros. The variation is pretty high, and of course he'll do better than that, but I went with those averages for his ranking, which would land him about here on the list. I discounted the fact that every other first-round quarterback of the Chiefs was a nightmare of lost hope.

Mahomes will enter the league with a bang, setting an NFL record with 6,000 passing yards as a rookie. He will be named MVP, rookie of the year, and Super Bowl MVP in 2017, and that year will serve as a springboard for improvement every year after that. He'll make the Chiefs an NFL dynasty, marry a cheerleader (Chargers, not Chiefs), save a choking fan in the stands with a Heimlich maneuver mid-play while avoiding a pass rush, and do the national anthem flyover without a plane. He will lead a renaissance of art and culture in Kansas City, design a driverless car, and perfect non-calorie pie. And then in his second year...

Here's a picture of Patrick Mahomes II in case you haven't learned to recognize him yet.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qB85GCUJZ_Y/TYvCIiVOUMI/AAAAAAAAAcI/t2nX77tAU9k/s1600/boris_vallejo_78frontcover.jpg

[Rain Man]

#21. Dontari Poe, NT, 2012. 11th pick.

In 2012, the Chiefs drafted a nose tackle, a guard, a tackle, two wide receivers, a cornerback, a running back, and a defensive tackle.

The nose tackle currently leads that group in tackles, sacks, touchdown passes, touchdown runs, and ranks second in touchdown receptions among that class. He's the largest player in NFL history to throw a touchdown pass, catch a touchdown pass, and score a running touchdown.

Of course, we should have expected it. At the NFL Combine, he measured in at 6-4 and 346 pounds, he recorded 44 reps in the bench press, ran a 4.98 40, broad jumped 105 inches, and had a 29.5 inch vertical. There's a good chance that you couldn't beat any of these numbers. There's a reasonable chance that a Ryder rental truck couldn't beat any of these numbers.

Dontari's photo on nfl.com's draft site. You want a guy like this at nose tackle.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/static/img/combine/headshots/2533435.jpg

So the Chiefs drafted this irresistible force and immovable object, and they stuck him in the lineup. Then they never took him out. They just left him on the field forever, and that was fine. He cut out barbecue and made himself invincible.

In 2012 he played 148 more snaps than any other Chiefs d-lineman.

In 2013 he played - I kid you not - 477 more snaps than any other Chiefs d-lineman.

In 2014 he won by 196 snaps.

He was still #1 in 2015, though with an injury he only won by 6 snaps, despite missing 3 starts.

And in 2016 he was the #1 lineman in snap counts by 247, despite recovery from some back troubles.

It's going to take a couple of linemen to replace this guy, both by snap count and by weight.

Dontari is gone now. He's moved to the deep South to defend Atlanta against General Sherman. But he had a good Chiefs career. 5 years, 76 starts, and 2 pro bowls. Five years is less time than we want, but still productive.

And of course, we'll always have this as a fond memory:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/yuifmk/picture123090289/alternates/FREE_640/POE

[Rasputin]

Good pic of Mahomes II. I do think he will end up being ranked #1 draft pick in the history of history. Like when King Arthur picked Sir Lancelot as his number one Knight.


I've often wondered if Poe would have had more production in the lineup if he got spared to play and could make a bigger impact in the fourth quarter?

If he continues to have back pain his career is going be limited and tenative shortened thanks to Chiufs.

[Rain Man]

Good pic of Mahomes II. I do think he will end up being ranked #1 draft pick in the history of history. Like when King Arthur picked Sir Lancelot as his number one Knight.


I've often wondered if Poe would have had more production in the lineup if he got spared to play and could make a bigger impact in the fourth quarter?

If he continues to have back pain his career is going be limited and tenative shortened thanks to Chiufs.

I agree about Mahomes. It's destined.

Poe intrigues me. I've always disliked the platooning that's done on modern defensive lines, because I've always felt that you should have the best defensive linemen on the field. I understand, though, that if a d-lineman is gassed, then the second-stringer may be better, but it's not lost on me that the best defenses in NFL history didn't platoon - the '75 Steelers, the doomsday Cowboys, the '69 Chiefs, etc.

It seems like the defensive coordinator (was it always Sutton?) made the decision that even a tired Poe was better than the second string guy, and that may be right. But that says a whole lot about Poe if he's an exception to the modern rule.

[Rain Man]

#20. Jim Marsalis, CB, 1969. 23rd pick.

We all know about Emmitt Thomas. Emmitt Thomas is in the hall of fame. He locked down one cornerback spot, but who was in the other spot?

Prior to 1969, the starter was a fellow named Willie Mitchell. Willie had been a starter for four years, recording 14 interceptions in that time. But the Chiefs needed to upgrade. They had five Hall of Famers on defense, and wanted to really lock it down.

So they drafted Jim Marsalis, a top-notch athlete from Tennessee State, a historically black university located in Nashville. The Chiefs were really good at finding those guys from historically black universities.

Marsalis came into camp and wowed everyone. Not only did he take the starting job at LCB, but he excelled. He was a pro bowler and AFL all-pro as a rookie, and the AFL's defensive rookie of the year. Experts of the time viewed him as the last piece in the Chiefs' construction of a world-class defense.

And like Aaron Brown's playoff run that we described earlier, Marsalis saved his best performances for the playoffs.

The Chiefs' first 1969 playoff game was against the defending Super Bowl champion Jets. Marsalis recorded two interceptions to stop scoring threats, and in fact, he made an interception in the end zone late in the fourth quarter against the Jets to seal the win. The score was 13-6 Chiefs, but the Jets had driven to the Chiefs' 13 yard line. Marsalis made the interception in the end zone to shut down the Jets' last gasp. Good job, rookie!

The Chiefs then played the Raiders in the AFL championship game. Despite suffering a bruised kidney that was undoubtedly caused by a cheap shot, Marsalis excelled in a 17-7 victory. Check out this sequence of events with the Chiefs up 14-7 in the fourth quarter:

Oakland drives into KC territory.
Jim Kearney intercepts an Oakland pass at the 18.
Two plays later, the Chiefs lose a fumble at the 24.
On the very next play, Oakland puts up a pass and the rookie Marsalis intercepts it, preventing a likely score.

So if you're happy about the Chiefs' Super Bowl, thank Jim Marsalis. His defensive play helped hold the Jets, Raiders, and Vikings to a combined 20 points in three playoff games.

Marsalis made the pro bowl again the next season, but he peaked early. He played seven seasons for the Chiefs, but declined every year. 1969 and 1970 were pro bowl years, 1971 and 1972 were steady starting years, and then 1973 through 1975 were injury-plagued.

He was active in only about half of the games during that 1973-1975 period, and in 1974 hit a low point with a back injury. And then it got worse. He wasn't playing at all, and so the Chiefs decided to pull a fast one on the league's slowest-witted member, the Denver Broncos.

They traded Marsalis to Denver in exchange for a linebacker (Tom Graham) and an offensive tackle (Tom Drougas). The players switched teams, but - shocker - Marsalis didn't pass his physical. The Broncos filed a complaint to Commissioner Pete Rozelle, and the trade was in limbo while he decided what to do. In fact, the Broncos kept a roster spot open in the event that Rozelle awarded them a different Chiefs player, which would have been weird.

In the end, Rozelle let the Chiefs keep the two players they had received, and they also kept Jim Marsalis. In return, the Broncos were awarded a 4th and 10th round draft choice for 1975. So after leaving for a week or so, Marsalis returned to Kansas City in what was likely an awkward situation. He played for the Chiefs another year.

He was waived during the preseason in 1976, sat out a year, and then came back for one year with New Orleans under Hank Stram.

So in the end, Hank Stram drafted Jim Marsalis, traded Jim Marsalis, cut Jim Marsalis, signed Jim Marsalis as a free agent, and the cut him again. Their lives were intertwined.

All in all, Marsalis was a Chief for seven seasons. I can't pin down how many starts he made, but I think he was a starter for four years and a backup for three years, so probably around 60 to 70 starts. He got two pro bowls and one AFL all-pro selection. His end was ignominious, but when you win the Super Bowl as an all-pro defensive rookie of the year, there's really no way to go anywhere but down.

Here's Jim breaking up a pass in Super Bowl IV.

http://www.sunherald.com/latest-news/1ubtb9/picture71921192/alternates/FREE_768/0415_bisp_Marsalis.jpg

[listopencil]

Rain Man:

I know that this isn't the correct thread but I wanted to let you know that you've been busted on film. Come on. I saw that movie The Doberman Gang too. Call off your goats, stop training them to attack John Elway. You're going to get caught and you're going to get in trouble.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MxCVbISr21U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rain Man]

Do goats get CTE? Are brain scientists testing for it in goats?

[listopencil]

Do goats get CTE? Are brain scientists testing for it in goats?

I don't know but I have to tell you this odd dream I had last night. I was in the living room of a house that I didn't recognize but in the dream it was mine. Tina Fey, Kate McKinnon, and Kelly Ripa were hanging out with me. They were hanging out at my house while waiting for a flight. The conversation turned to politics and world events. I began to make fun of the French but Fey and MCKinnon were getting annoyed we with me for doing it. Ripa had my back though and said that the French are annoying. I remember turning to Tina Fey and saying something like, "They don't even have a real language. It's all like la la la and wah vee la loo la la, and bullshit like that." She rolled her eyes, sputtered, and just looked away from me. Ripa laughed. Then McKinnon pulls out this picture of a young lady (oddly it was an actual photograph) who appeared to be somewhere between 15 and 25 years old. She says, "What do you think of this actress?" I say, "I don't know. I don't recognize her." And she goes, "That's Scarlett Ripa! Her daughter!" And points to Kelly. What a bitch. Trying to get me an Kelly Rip to fight or something. Anyway, that's when the dream ended. Weird huh?

[listopencil]

I just looked it up and Wikipedia says that Ripa has a 17 year old daughter named Lola Grace. Odd.

[listopencil]

Oh shit, the picture in my dream actually looks like her daughter but a few years older and with curly hair instead of straight. This is really weird. I may have accidentally traveled forward in time while sleeping.

[Nickhead]

Yeah, we call Tyson Jackson a bust around here, but he might be one of the top ten first-rounders taken that year. (Yeah, he was the third pick, so it's still a failure, but not like most of the other teams that year.)

Kenny Britt was the 30th pick of the first round that year, and he recently made me laugh. NFL Network is showing the Hard Knocks of the Rams, and this happened. Watch it, it's funny.

Brian Quick is mortified to be called out, but Kenny Britt is so dumb that he doesn't get it. He thinks it's hilarious, even though he was the one driving. That guy has neither a clue nor a way to keep it in the house if he did happen to find one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tiABsGuN1zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


fuck the nfl has gone soft. didn't percy snow crash a vespa and get cut? :D

[Nickhead]

2014 is too soon to rank.

How would you rank Tamba Hali after 2008?

Derrick Johnson after 2007?

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1477046657/3295447-1-dont-be-a-dick-bro.jpg

[BlackOp]

Oh shit, the picture in my dream actually looks like her daughter but a few years older and with curly hair instead of straight. This is really weird. I may have accidentally traveled forward in time while sleeping.

It just says you hate women that are smarter/better educated than yourself...and require a spineless Ripa muppet to hang on every half-ass observation about about the world and french culture...just a younger, hotter version.

Donko fans...

[Rain Man]

Have we checked listopencil for CTE lately?

[Rain Man]

#19. Eric Fisher, LT, 2013. 1st pick.

Mock me, curse me, say whatever you want. Fisher is on track to be a top-20 first round pick in Chiefs history. Hear me out.

He's played for four full seasons now, and he's been a reliable starter. He's getting better every year. In Year 1 he moved to RT because Branden Albert cried and stomped his feet, screaming shrilly that "Left tackle is mine! I own left tackle! Herm gave it to me!" In Year 2 Eric moved to left tackle and he's been pretty darn good ever since. Other than being framed for a crime he didn't commit in the Pittsburgh playoff game, you never hear anything about Eric, and that means he's doing a good job.

So anyway, he's played for four years and he's recorded 59 starts. When you look at OT's drafted in the first five picks between 1977 and 2007, those who make it past their first four years have an average career length of nine years. Given that he's under contract, we can expect him to stay with KC, so we're going to get pretty much a full decade of perfectly serviceable left tackle out of that pick. In the NFL, that's a success.

Yeah, I know, I know. #1 pick. It's not Eric's fault that he was the most talented player in the remedial draft class of 2013. You can only compete against the people who are in your class, so it is what it is. Put on some welder's goggles to protect your eyes, and then gaze upon the top ten picks of 2013.

1 Eric Fisher
2 Luke Joeckel
3 Dion Jordan
4 Lane Johnson
5 Ezekiel Ansah
6 Barkevious Mingo
7 Jonathan Cooper
8 Tavon Austin
9 Dee Milliner
10 Chance Warmack

In retrospect, isn't it thrilling that we got Eric Fisher?

Hopefully he'll start getting pro bowl nods, but that's tough at OT when Joe Thomas is around. We know how pro bowls work on the offensive line, and Joe Thomas will suck up a LT spot until he retires. And it's not like Joeckel is going to compete for a spot.

So suck it up, buttercups. Fisher will likely end his career as the 19th best first-round pick in Chiefs history, and here's a picture to remember him by. If you want to disapprove of someone in that picture, disapprove of Goodell.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/04/26/sports/football/26draft-nfl-1-img/26draft-nfl-1-img-jumbo.jpg

[listopencil]

Have we checked listopencil for CTE lately?

I'm not busy next week.

[Rain Man]

#18 - Mike Bell, DE, 1979. 2nd pick.

Oh, gosh. I've been waiting for this one. This may be the most interesting review of the whole series.

So we start in the early 1970s. Mike Bell lives in Wichita, and he has a twin brother Mark. I'm not sure how twins can have different talents, but both boys play football and are good, but Mike is a heckuva lot better.

So their senior year comes and all sorts of colleges want Mike. Mark, not so much. He's good, but not that good. The Bell parents, not realizing that twins can be actual separate human beings, order the boys to go to the same college.

This puts a constraint on Mike. He's getting all sorts of scholarship offers, but Mark isn't. It turns out that only Wichita State and Colorado State would offer Mark a scholarship (and you know those were pity scholarships to get Mike). So the Bell boys go to Colorado State.

Mike had a stellar career there, being named an All-American as a sophomore and a junior before a knee injury cut him down his senior year. Mark did well after being moved to tight end, but not as well as Mike in the story of his shadow-stunted life. And in addition to Mike and Mark, Mark also played well, and this is where it gets a little confusing.

The NFL draft came in 1979, and Colorado State had three players drafted in the first five rounds: Mike Bell, Mark Bell, and Mark Bell. That threw me for a second. Mike went with the second overall pick, and his twin brother Mark went in the fourth round (as a defensive end, oddly), which is pretty good but not as good as Mike. And in the fifth round, another Colorado State guy named Mark Bell was drafted at wide receiver.

Here's a picture of the three Bell boys. The one in the middle is not one of the twins.

http://source.colostate.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Sark_Bells-e1481566267368.jpeg

At this point, we can forget about Mark and Mark. They both had short NFL careers and probably now spend their lives secretly swapping wives without the women's knowledge. But Mike came to Kansas City.

He arrived in an odd environment. A year earlier, the Chiefs had also held the #2 pick, and they used it to draft Kentucky DE Art Still. With the 29th pick that year (the #2 pick in the second round), they had drafted yet another DE named Sylvester Hicks. So Bell arrived as the #2 pick (another twin thing, I guess), and he had a #2 pick and a #2 pick in the 2nd round ahead of him.

So he sat on the bench and got injured a lot. He got injured and Hicks got injured and Art Still dominated and by Bell's second year both he and Hicks were hurt so a guy named Dave Lindstrom started almost every game. After two seasons, Bell had only made five starts and he'd missed games with knee, bicep, hamstring, and groin injuries.

The Chiefs sent him to some specialist who likely dealt with the frail elderly, and that guy told him to lift fewer weights and start stretching more. Bell lost 15 pounds, became more limber, and seldom missed a game after that if you don't count going to prison. (More on that later.) He took over the starting job in 1981 and held it through 1985. Interestingly, he weighed about 245 pounds, which is microscopic for a DE today and was small even back then. But wait until I tell you about Art Still.

1985, though, produced a very unusual event. It was late in a disappointing season, like most of them were back then, and on a Wednesday Mike was coming out of a team meeting at Arrowhead. He was intercepted by Mulder and Scully.

"We're with the FBI," they said. "Up against the wall and put your hands behind your back." During the season, a Chiefs starter was led out of Arrowhead in handcuffs facing federal charges.

Apparently Mike had kept his friends back in Wichita, and they liked the ol' nose candy. Mike enjoyed it as well, and he made a call to a wiretapped phone in Wichita to buy some of it. He was one of 31 people arrested, including his twin brother Mark (though Mark's arrest probably wasn't as good). It must have been going on for a while, because a former Chief, James Walker, was arrested in that group and he'd only been with the team for one year in 1983.

And this wasn't some Aqib Talib thing where they just let him go. He got sentenced to prison. Prison! He got a one-year sentence for cocaine trafficking (actually two one-year sentences served concurrently) and a two-year suspended sentence for cocaine possession. His twin brother Mark got an identical sentence, though not as good since he only got one of the one-year sentences.

The Bell boys reported to prison and served four months before getting out on good behavior or something. Mark was out of the league (working at a hair salon), while Mike sat out the full 1986 season. In the days before Von Miller, the league didn't really like having cocaine traffickers suiting up on game day.

But in 1987 Mike was reinstated, and all of a sudden he was back in a Chiefs uniform. That must have been an awkward welcome back. He came back as a starter and then crippled on as a backup for three more years after that before retiring.

So if you summarize his career, it went like this:

2 years as an oft-injured backup
5 years as a starter
1 year in prison
2 years as a starter again
3 years as a backup again

Prison or not, that's a long Chiefs career. He was active for 12 seasons, and while he never made a pro bowl, he racked up 99 starts and 40 sacks. That's pretty productive for a 1st round pick, I guess.

Here are a couple of pictures of Mike for you. I always remember him as a pretty lean player like this.

http://prod.static.chiefs.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/KC/photos/Ambassadors/2015/PlayerCards/Bell-Mike.jpg

http://img.cinemablend.com/cb/a/6/e/6/1/e/a6e61e536b878fe97d6cdccf9beb62b2996b76cc552a0aec6a35d9de7e3beefa.jpg

[Rain Man]

#17 - Jerome Woods, FS, 1996. 28th pick.

When Marty took the reins in 1989, he had a great free safety in his prime. Deron Cherry was 30 years old. At the strong safety spot, Kevin Porter was a third round pick in his second year.

Marty didn't seem to care that much about safeties, so he let the position stand. Deron retired after 1991 and Porter was a kind of a bust, unfortunately. From 1989 through 1995, the primary starters at the two safety spots were Cherry (2 years), Porter (3 years), Jeff Donaldson (1 year), Martin Bayless (2 years), Charles Mincy (1 year), Kevin Ross (1 year), David Whitmore (1 year), William White (1 year), Brian Washington (1 year), and Mark Collins (1 year). Other than Porter, Mincy was drafted in the 5th round and the other guys all came with no investment of draft picks.

By 1996 Marty must've decided that the position warranted more attention, because he drafted Jerome in the first round and then followed up with Reggie Tongue in the second round. Neither guy started their rookie year, though Jerome kept himself busy as a pretty decent kickoff returner. However, in 1997 they took over and started for the next three years as a pair, Jerome at FS and Reggie at SS.

At some point a choice had to be made, and the Chiefs picked Jerome over Reggie. Reggie played another six years, mostly for Seattle, and Jerome continued on with Kansas City. Chiefsplanet was somewhat split on the decision. (I was in the Reggie camp since I thought he was more of a ball hawk but I had nothing against Jerome.)

The main story for Jerome after that was a broken leg in the preseason of 2002 that destroyed his whole season. That must have been a bad broken leg because he was out all year. He came back in 2003, having a banner year in which he scored the only two touchdowns of his career. A 46 yard interception against Pittsburgh in Week 2 and a 79 yard interception against Green Bay in Week 6 helped him secure his only pro bowl spot in his career, coming in his 8th pro season.

But it was a short revival. Injuries in 2004 and 2005 bit hard into both seasons, and the Chiefs released him prior to preseason in 2006. He tried to catch on with another team, but got no bites. In 2007 he signed a short one-day contract with the Chiefs so he could honorably retire after
a commendable 105 starts with the Chiefs.

All in all, he was a solid player for a long time. A star? No. But he was a productive draft pick and we salute him.

http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/10/17/REDSKINS_CHIEFS2__5xcolo_t640.jpg?a6ea3ebd4438a44b86d2e9c39ecf7613005fe067

[Pitt Gorilla]

#17 - Jerome Woods, FS, 1996. 28th pick.

When Marty took the reins in 1999, he had a great free safety in his prime. Deron Cherry was 30 years old. At the strong safety spot, Kevin Porter was a third round pick in his second year.

Marty didn't seem to care that much about safeties, so he let the position stand. Deron retired after 1991 and Porter was a kind of a bust, unfortunately. From 1989 through 1995, the primary starters at the two safety spots were Cherry (2 years), Porter (3 years), Jeff Donaldson (1 year), Martin Bayless (2 years), Charles Mincy (1 year), Kevin Ross (1 year), David Whitmore (1 year), William White (1 year), Brian Washington (1 year), and Mark Collins (1 year). Other than Porter, Mincy was drafted in the 5th round and the other guys all came with no investment of draft picks.

By 1996 Marty must've decided that the position warranted more attention, because he drafted Jerome in the first round and then followed up with Reggie Tongue in the second round. Neither guy started their rookie year, though Jerome kept himself busy as a pretty decent kickoff returner. However, in 1997 they took over and started for the next three years as a pair, Jerome at FS and Reggie at SS.

At some point a choice had to be made, and the Chiefs picked Jerome over Reggie. Reggie played another six years, mostly for Seattle, and Jerome continued on with Kansas City. Chiefsplanet was somewhat split on the decision. (I was in the Reggie camp since I thought he was more of a ball hawk but I had nothing against Jerome.)

The main story for Jerome after that was a broken leg in the preseason of 2002 that destroyed his whole season. That must have been a bad broken leg because he was out all year. He came back in 2003, having a banner year in which he scored the only two touchdowns of his career. A 46 yard interception against Pittsburgh in Week 2 and a 79 yard interceptions against Green Bay in Week 6 helped him secure his only pro bowl spot in his career, coming in his 8th pro season.

But it was a short revival. Injuries in 2004 and 2005 bit hard into both seasons, and the Chiefs released him prior to preseason in 2006. He tried to catch on with another team, but got no bites. In 2007 he signed a short one-day contract with the Chiefs so he could honorably retire.

All in all, he was a solid player for a long time. A star? No. But he was a productive draft pick and we salute him.

http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2004/09/20/sportschiefs1_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dcSort of glad to see Tongue go, if only because the "laid a licking" puns got really tired really quickly.

[Rain Man]

Sort of glad to see Tongue go, if only because the "laid a licking" puns got really tired really quickly.

Well yeah, there was that. But remember that Jerome really brought the Wood.

[Rain Man]

I had to switch the picture because I don't think that first one was really Jerome even though it was labeled as him. The jersey number is wrong.

And I hope Getty Images goes bankrupt. They steal old pictures and claim them as theirs and then try to charge for using them. Getty Images is perhaps America's most terrible company.

[Willie Lanier]

Love the analysis, and both players, but tongue was the better player IMO, one of the best safeties at the time.

And he didn't take no shit, he ****ed people up

[Rain Man]

Love the analysis, and both players, but tongue was the better player IMO, one of the best safeties at the time.

And he didn't take no shit, he ****ed people up

I remember at the time thinking that Tongue had a better tendency to be around the ball and make plays, but in the end they were kind of similar. Tongue has the advantage, but not by a lot.

Of course, Tongue was a SS, so I generally expect fewer interceptions out of them than a FS, and fewer FR. I expect more FF, though.

Woods - 9 seasons (not counting the one IR season)

15 Int
11 FF
5 FR
5.0 sacks
2 defensive touchdowns

Tongue - 10 seasons

15 Int
12 FF
10 FR
9.5 sacks
4 defensive touchdowns

[patteeu]

Great write-ups, Rainman.

[Rain Man]

Great write-ups, Rainman.

I was hoping people appreciated my Mike Bell writeup. I find Mike Bell's story interesting.

I'm starting to get close to #11. It's going to be quite dramatic.

[patteeu]

I was hoping people appreciated my Mike Bell writeup. I find Mike Bell's story interesting.

I'm starting to get close to #11. It's going to be quite dramatic.

I'm already starting to hyperventilate.

[Rasputin]

#19. Eric Fisher, LT, 2013. 1st pick.

Mock me, curse me, say whatever you want. Fisher is on track to be a top-20 first round pick in Chiefs history. Hear me out.

He's played for four full seasons now, and he's been a reliable starter. He's getting better every year. In Year 1 he moved to RT because Branden Albert cried and stomped his feet, screaming shrilly that "Left tackle is mine! I own left tackle! Herm gave it to me!" In Year 2 Eric moved to left tackle and he's been pretty darn good ever since. Other than being framed for a crime he didn't commit in the Pittsburgh playoff game, you never hear anything about Eric, and that means he's doing a good job.

So anyway, he's played for four years and he's recorded 59 starts. When you look at OT's drafted in the first five picks between 1977 and 2007, those who make it past their first four years have an average career length of nine years. Given that he's under contract, we can expect him to stay with KC, so we're going to get pretty much a full decade of perfectly serviceable left tackle out of that pick. In the NFL, that's a success.

Yeah, I know, I know. #1 pick. It's not Eric's fault that he was the most talented player in the remedial draft class of 2013. You can only compete against the people who are in your class, so it is what it is. Put on some welder's goggles to protect your eyes, and then gaze upon the top ten picks of 2013.

1 Eric Fisher
2 Luke Joeckel
3 Dion Jordan
4 Lane Johnson
5 Ezekiel Ansah
6 Barkevious Mingo
7 Jonathan Cooper
8 Tavon Austin
9 Dee Milliner
10 Chance Warmack

In retrospect, isn't it thrilling that we got Eric Fisher?

Hopefully he'll start getting pro bowl nods, but that's tough at OT when Joe Thomas is around. We know how pro bowls work on the offensive line, and Joe Thomas will suck up a LT spot until he retires. And it's not like Joeckel is going to compete for a spot.

So suck it up, buttercups. Fisher will likely end his career as the 19th best first-round pick in Chiefs history, and here's a picture to remember him by. If you want to disapprove of someone in that picture, disapprove of Goodell.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/04/26/sports/football/26draft-nfl-1-img/26draft-nfl-1-img-jumbo.jpg

Not safe for work Rape
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HGiQnOMdubE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Scooter LaCanforno]

#37. George Daney, G, 1968. 22nd pick.

Since we traded Pete Beathard for a first-round pick you may be wondering who we took with that pick. It was this fellow, Mr. George Daney.

George is another classic story of a guy getting screwed over in the draft. The Chiefs already had Ed Budde, of course, and were looking to upgrade the RG spot. With the 22nd pick, they selected RG George Daney, but they had two first-round picks and with the #19 pick they selected RG Mo Moorman. They must have really wanted a guard.

Moorman won the starting job and held it for six years before retiring, while Daney was the backup. Daney finally got to start in his seventh year, and then retired after that. The records don't show exactly how many starts he had, but I suspect it was in the 25 to 30 range. He was apparently quite active on special teams, though.

He was also one of the team clowns. You should read this great article about Jim Tyrer's murder-suicide https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1980/09/21/tyrer-tragedy-no-coping-with-mortality/7113d609-12c7-4532-ad03-1eafb4e85e8d/?utm_term=.a5f1fba52009, but it mentions the following about Daney:

On the excellent Chief teams of the late '60s and early '70s, no two players seemed more dissimilar than celebrated offensive tackle Jim Tyrer and backup guard George Daney. Tyrer seemed a tower of strength, always forward-thinking and sensible; Daney was seen as a flake, if not quite a goof-off, a man who joined center Jack Rudnay in countless pranks and seemingly gave no thought to life after football. In tandem, Daney and Rudney were known as Heckle and Jeckle, after the cartoon birds.

Once, to relieve the boredom of yet another film, Rudnay and Daney unscrewed all the outlets within 100 yards of the projector, snipped all the wiring and then replaced the outlets. Coach Hank Stram must have considered hiring an electrician as an assistant coach. There was a method to this seeming madness, Daney insists. Acting looney often was a way to avoid becoming looney.

Although none of his teammates sensed it while he was playing, Daney fully realized the limits of pro football, that it was an interlude in his life, to be used as a springboard toward financial freedom rather than as a way to avoid growing up.

Like most players, Daney was frustrated at the uncertainty, callousness and lack of imagination in the NFL during his seven years with the Chiefs. Unlike most players, he mustered the courage to quit long before being ordered. In early July of 1975, Daney charged into the Chief offices to announce his retirement. Nobody was there to acknowledge it.

"The office was about a mile from the house," he said. "I'd gone that far, I had to tell someone. So I told the only person there -- the trainer. I told him to tell the front office. Then I went on vacation. When I got back, I found out they traded me to Houston, that they were trying to salvage something.

"I could have gone two more years, maybe five. But where would it have gotten me? Where's the breaking-off point? Jim was at a much higher level (of income) than me. But he still had to start from the bottom some time. That's not a pessimistic view. It's realistic. You get caught in an ego and financial trap. And the longer you play the more you get trapped.

"I told Jim I was twice as smart as he was (both retired in '75), because it took me seven years to learn what it took him 14 to learn. We were both unemployed -- only I was 28 and he was 36."

"I used to wish George had a bigger ego," said Linda, "that he was more like Jim, that he'd play a few more years. Thank God he never listened to me."

So in summary, he's a different type of player than we've seen so far on the list. He didn't get a lot of starts, but he was with the team for a long time. Unfortunately, he also had an odd young death, dying at age 43 in his garage in what was believed to be an accident.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-16/sports/sp-961_1_past-chiefs-guard-found-dead

He looks like someone I recognize, but I can't place who:

http://www.wash-greenesportshall.org/images/2007/GEORGE%20DANEY.jpg




I remember George Daney getting ejected in a pre-season game. He went to the bench and switched his jersey with a another player, he then went back into the game and got thrown out again. I think the NFL changed the rules on ejected players after that.

[Rain Man]

I remember George Daney getting ejected in a pre-season game. He went to the bench and switched his jersey with a another player, he then went back into the game and got thrown out again. I think the NFL changed the rules on ejected players after that.

I'd never heard that. You have to like those early AFL days.

I saw a film clip on one NFL Network show where a fan ran onto the field as the ball was snapped and rushed the passer. The play stood.

Here it is. Of course it was the Patriots cheating to beat the Chiefs.

<iframe width="634" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEjh2EVLD-s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rain Man]

Not to distract us to the Patriots, but this is a cool article about how ramshackle the Patriots were in their early AFL days: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/sports/football/early-patriots-were-a-comical-traveling-sideshow.html

I enjoyed this story:

Nothing so historic happened on the day of the Patriots’ 1970 season opener at Harvard, but it has a permanent place in the team’s colorful lore. The former Notre Dame running back Bob Gladieux had been cut from the Patriots a few days earlier but decided to attend the season opener anyway with a friend.

Seated in the old concrete Harvard horseshoe before the start of the game, the two had already had a couple of beers when Gladieux’s friend agreed to get another round. Just after he left, the public address cackled: “Bob Gladieux, please report to the Patriots’ dressing room.”

Gladieux went downstairs and was told to suit up. Last-minute contract disputes had left the Patriots short. Gladieux, nicknamed Harpo for his flock of frizzy blond hair, hurriedly donned his pads and was soon running down the field on the opening kickoff against the Miami Dolphins.

Back in the stands, his friend wondered why he was alone. He looked up to see the Dolphins’ kick returner go down in the arms of No. 24 for the Patriots.

“Tackle by Bob Gladieux,” the public address announcer said.

Said St. Jean: “When we saw Harpo’s buddy later, he said: ‘I knew I was drinking, but not enough to be hearing things.’ ” The Patriots won the game, one of just two victories in another last-place season.

[Rain Man]

#16. Dwayne Bowe, WR, 2007. 23rd pick.

George: What do you do?

http://media.thelisttv.com/photo/2016/01/05/16x9/3_Things_You_Didn_t_Know_About_George_Co_0_29407360_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Dwayne: I'm in the import/export business.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Wild+Card+Playoffs+Baltimore+Ravens+v+Kansas+LI8sRBG4GYDl.jpg

George: Do you import or do you export?

http://media.thelisttv.com/photo/2016/01/05/16x9/3_Things_You_Didn_t_Know_About_George_Co_0_29407360_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Dwayne: I import. I definitely import.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Wild+Card+Playoffs+Baltimore+Ravens+v+Kansas+LI8sRBG4GYDl.jpg

Okay, Dwayne seemed like a little bit of a knucklehead sometimes, but he was our knucklehead, and he's a great American success story. He's Horatio Alger with a better vertical.

Dwayne wasn't one of those privileged kids whose dad was an NFL quarterback or a coach at Stanford. Dwayne earned every single penny he made other than that year in Cleveland. You can read his early story here, courtesy of BigRedChief. (Oh, and BigRedChief, that's a Q.) http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=171138

The bottom line is that his early story centers around poverty and neglect. His parents were drug addicts who paid him no attention, and his grandparents had to take him in. In high school he was a big kid with a 0.9 GPA and a tendency to bully people and get into fights. His coach saw him about to whale on a smaller kid and told him to come and play football instead. Having never played sports before, that encounter changed the entire path of his life. So in a way, Dwayne owes his life path to bullying and his impulsive desire one day to beat up a smaller person for no reason. It's inspiring and it makes me want to beat up a smaller person for no reason.

But anyway, he went out on the football field and it was probably like watching Monet pick up a paintbrush for the first time and hit a smaller painter with it. He discovered his immense natural talent, scoring on a 99 yard kickoff return the first time he ever touched the ball in a game. He starred in high school, then used it as a ticket to college, where he played at LSU with the best quarterback he would ever encounter:
Jamarcus Russell.

That should give you an idea of the obstacles Dwayne has overcome.

Jamarcus was drafted with the #1 pick of the 2007 draft, so Chiefsplanet did not get its franchise quarterback. Instead, we debated Brady Quinn versus Dwayne Bowe versus Robert Meachem. But the Browns jumped ahead of us at the last second and took Brady Quinn, destroying our second chance to get a franchise quarterback. So Bowe was the pick. He was one of the last draft classes where long and hostile contract negotiations occurred, so he did that and got taped to the goalpost.

But the real story of Dwayne Bowe's pro football career circles back around to poverty and neglect. As a baby, he was left alone in squalid conditions. As a pro football player, he was lined up with squalid quarterbacks other than the excellent Alex Smith. Here are the main starters for every year of Dwayne's career:

2007 - Damon Huard
2008 - Tyler Thigpen
2009 - Matt Cassel
2010 - Matt Cassel
2011 - Matt Cassel
2012 - Matt Cassel
2013 - Alex Smith
2014 - Alex Smith
2015 (Browns) - Josh McCown

Somehow, amidst all of that despair and poverty, despite being abandoned out wide, he managed 532 receptions for 7,155 yards and 44 touchdowns. He had three 1,000 yard seasons (and was five yards from a fourth as a rookie), scored 15 touchdowns in a season, and took home one pro bowl jersey. As a Chief, he averaged 67 receptions per year for 894 yards and 6 touchdowns. He may have dropped some easy ones, but he also made some great catches. He missed a few games here and there for marijuana and performance enhancing drugs, but overall he made 112 starts as a Chief, and that's a good career.

So look at those quarterbacks and judge him on that. And I defy you to identify his #2 receiver. On a more established team, he might've been dominant in his generation.

And football aside, I liked Bowe. I liked him a lot. Given his upbringing, he could have been a thug. He could have been Von Miller or Aqib Talib. But instead, he was a genuinely nice guy, always smiling and enjoying the ride. He wasn't a spoiled Manning baby; he was one of us, an everyman who found himself in the NFL and marveled at the experience. It was delightful to hear him tell the ESPN interviewer about the "entire floor of girls" in the team hotel, and how "veterans import girls from other cities on road trips", which sent every married veteran player into full-blown crisis management mode.

Ah, Dwayne, I miss you.

But while we think of Bowe as being perhaps more Shemp than Moe on the intellectual scale, who got the last laugh? After Kansas City, he signed a $9 million guaranteed deal with the Browns, and earned $1.8 million per pass reception before retiring. He seems to be good with his money, because current gossip sites estimate his net worth at around $25 million. https://www.celebritynetworth123.com/richest-athletes/dwayne-bowe-net-worth/. Dwayne's got his machinery humming and he's riding life like it's a surfboard.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kansas+City+Chiefs+v+Seattle+Seahawks+OWSmg8VJ4qWl.jpg
http://sportscourtmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chiefs-dwayne-bowe2.jpg

And I have to show this picture of Dwayne next to some other player. I honestly thought this was some sort of Make A Wish Foundation photo. Who is #30? I can't figure it out, but he's either 5-2 or there's a weird camera angle thing going on. I think it may be Jalil Brown.

http://www.chiefs.com/assets/images/imported/KC/photos/article-images/bowe_brown_ind_250_10_10_11.jpg

[Willie Lanier]

Thank you Rainman for continuing your thankless job of educating youngins....

Happy to see D Bowe towards the top of the list.

[rico]

ROFL The Bowe write-up is PERFECT. Thank you for the laughs and education!!!

It may be my favorite post I've ever read on here.

[rico]

What was funny about Bowe was that he seemingly became accustomed to bad QB play to the point where he was better at receiving the poorly thrown passes than he was the rare ball that hit him right on the money. It was like, he would encounter the rare perfect pass thrown by Cassel and think, "what the fuck is this?" and would drop it. Meanwhile, you'd see the ever-common poor pass intended for him and you'd be watching what appeared to be the Cirque Du Soleil, but it was actually Bowe going after a Cassel-wobbler...and the guy would CATCH THE FREAKING BALL. In retrospect, it was funny as hell. Freaking Bowe. :D

He had moments where it'd seriously look like he was playing hacky-sack with the football, trying to make what seemed to be an impossible catch due to the ball being thrown so poorly...and he'd end up with it!!! Next possession, a ball would hit him square in the 82 and it was like he was a deer in the headlights.

[rico]

Think of how badly Bowe would be kicking Jalil Brown's ass if they encountered each other, had he not found football. LMAO

[Rasputin]

I loved Dwayne Bowe and I agree with ya Rico everything you said :D


Also I thought Rain Man would bring up the Todd Haley interactions with him & how hard he was toward the young man. I think it was Dwayne Bowe very first touchdown and of course he had to show boat but Todd Haley had him doing none of that. I often wonder what Dwayne would have been like if Todd Haley let him have fun out there but I do think Todd Haley also brought out the best in Dwayne Bowe out for his discipline. I'm a fan who enjoys a little showboating after a touchdown. NFL players are entertainers, entertain me. Yet I never cared much for TO to do it so I could be hypocritical. If he did it as a Chief it probably would have been cool :)

[rico]

I loved Dwayne Bowe and I agree with ya Rico everything you said :D


Also I thought Rain Man would bring up the Todd Haley interactions with him & how hard he was toward the young man. I think it was Dwayne Bowe very first touchdown and of course he had to show boat but Todd Haley had him doing none of that. I often wonder what Dwayne would have been like if Todd Haley let him have fun out there but I do think Todd Haley also brought out the best in Dwayne Bowe out for his discipline. I'm a fan who enjoys a little showboating after a touchdown. NFL players are entertainers, entertain me. Yet I never cared much for TO to do it so I could be hypocritical. If he did it as a Chief it probably would have been cool :)

It would have been funny if he literally would have played hacky sack with the football after scoring touchdowns. :D

[rico]

This has been so fun reminiscing about Bowe...I've been laughing my buns off thinking about some of it!

[Rasputin]

It would have been funny if he literally would have played hacky sack with the football after scoring touchdowns. :D

That would have been too funny ROFL Oh and I miss me some Dwayne Bowe :(


Oh yeah that was Hard Knockers during the Herm years he was tied up on the goal post wasn't it? Kelly Croyle had some Hard Knockers.


Good lord I really feel for Dwayne Bowe and his career as a Chief having Herm the worm as a coach and never had a quarterback worth a damn.

[rico]

That would have been too funny ROFL Oh and I miss me some Dwayne Bowe :(


Oh yeah that was Hard Knockers during the Herm years he was tied up on the goal post wasn't it? Kelly Croyle had some Hard Knockers.


Good lord I really feel for Dwayne Bowe and his career as a Chief having Herm the worm as a coach and never had a quarterback worth a damn.

He could have put up some incredible numbers with a halfway competent QB.

I don't remember the Chiefs' Hard Knocks season...don't know what in the world I was doing at that time...would love to see it.

[Scooter LaCanforno]

I'd never heard that. You have to like those early AFL days.

I saw a film clip on one NFL Network show where a fan ran onto the field as the ball was snapped and rushed the passer. The play stood.

Here it is. Of course it was the Patriots cheating to beat the Chiefs.

<iframe width="634" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEjh2EVLD-s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



From NYTimes 9/12/1970

The office of Commissioner Pete Rozelle yesterday con firmed a report that the Kan sas City Chiefs had been fined because one of their players returned in disguise to a preseason game from which he had been ejected by an official for fighting.

The player was George Daney, a reserve guard, and the game was against the Cardinals in St. Louis last Sept. 12. Accord ing to a St. Louis fan, Daney, on the sidelines after being ejected, took off his jersey and put on one belonging to Bobby Hughes, a member of the Chiefs’ taxi squad.

About Pro Football

Daney, a member of the specialty teams, then went back on the field for several kicking plays and no one paid heed except the fan, who refuses to be identified.

The fan wrote a letter to Rozelle and received a reply plus a copy of a letter from the commissioner to Jack Steadman, the Chiefs’ general manager. The fan reported all this to Ed McCauley, a St. Louis television broadcaster, who told the world.

As is its custom, the com missioner's office said only that disciplinary action had been taken against the Kan sas City club and no further details would be released. One further detail was the alleged amount of the fine, $5,000.

[Rasputin]

He could have put up some incredible numbers with a halfway competent QB.

I don't remember the Chiefs' Hard Knocks season...don't know what in the world I was doing at that time...would love to see it.

Yeah well you need to find a way to watch it somehow it was great :)

Loved the Ray Farmer cutting players and the Casey Printers can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit :)

[Rain Man]

I loved Dwayne Bowe and I agree with ya Rico everything you said :D


Also I thought Rain Man would bring up the Todd Haley interactions with him & how hard he was toward the young man. I think it was Dwayne Bowe very first touchdown and of course he had to show boat but Todd Haley had him doing none of that. I often wonder what Dwayne would have been like if Todd Haley let him have fun out there but I do think Todd Haley also brought out the best in Dwayne Bowe out for his discipline. I'm a fan who enjoys a little showboating after a touchdown. NFL players are entertainers, entertain me. Yet I never cared much for TO to do it so I could be hypocritical. If he did it as a Chief it probably would have been cool :)


I was reading about that. Todd was a strict parent. He demoted Bowe to third string in 2009 during training camp, but I think Bowe earned his way out of the doghouse. He only started 9 games that year, but four of his non-starts were because Von Miller spiked his drinks with performance-enhancing drugs. Does anyone remember why he didn't start the other three games that year? Injury or tough love?

[Rain Man]

#15 - Bill Maas, NT, 1984. 5th pick.

You can't say that the Chiefs ignored the defensive line in late 70s and early 80s. They drafted Art Still with the 2nd overall pick in 1978, Mike Bell with the 2nd overall pick in 1979, and Bill Maas with the 5th overall pick in 1984.

It wasn't a sure thing, though. There was all sorts of drama around Bill in the draft. First of all, this was the inaugural year of the USFL. Bill was a Pennsylvania kid in high school and played in college at Pitt. The USFL, in a savvy move, held a territorial draft and Bill was selected by the Pittsburgh Maulers. (However, it seems that he must've not seriously considered the USFL.)

The second bit of drama surrounded Carl Banks. There were rumors that he was the #1 guy on the Chiefs' board, and that they were trying to trade up with the Giants into the 3rd pick to get him. For some reason, though, such a trade never happened, but the rumor was everywhere. The Giants ended up taking Banks themselves and the Chiefs stayed at five.

As for Maas, he was surprised to be drafted by KC. Again with the Pennsylvania connections, the Eagles told him that they would draft him in the #4 spot, and San Diego told him that they'd take him at #6 if he was available. Kansas City never contacted him. But the Eagles ended up drafting Kenny Jackson (insert Simpsons bully saying "Ha Ha" here), and the Chiefs took him.

Bill was a five-tool nose tackle from Day One. He could hit people for power, hit people for average, throw blockers, run over blockers, and run the field. The league recognized it, and Bill is one of four Chiefs who have been named the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year. Those four are Bill Maas, Dale Carter, Derrick Thomas, and Marcus Peters. (Jim Marsalis was named the AFL defensive rookie of the Year by Pro Football Weekly, but the NFL winner was Joe Greene. so ... yeah ... I'll yield the overall nod to Greene.)

Perhaps the most impressive thing about Bill was that he averaged 5.0 sacks per year during his six years as a nose tackle. That's really pretty darn good for a classic 3-4 nose tackle.

He was pretty dominant until 1988, and then the injury bug hit. He missed half of 1988 with a knee and almost half of 1989 with a broken arm. But Marty Schottenheimer, the new coach, was smart. 1989 was the first year of NFL free agency, and Marty picked up an unknown nose tackle to back up Bill. With Bill's injury the new kid, Dan Saleaumua, got a lot of playing time, and he never gave up the starting job. When Bill came back, he moved to the right defensive end slot for the remainder of his Chiefs career.

In 1993, Bill presumably believed that the Chiefs couldn't go anywhere with Joe Montana at quarterback, or the Packers threw a lot of money at him, so he signed with Green Bay. Okay, truth be told, it was actually the second reason - the Packers threw him a lot of money. But he couldn't beat out John Jurkovic for the starting job and retired the next year.

After that, it gets a little ugly. If you're old enough, you probably remember that he exercised very poor judgment during the player's strike when he was riding around with a shotgun and encouraging that idiot Jack Del Rio to attack Otis Taylor. That was a portent of things to come. Cocaine arrests, gun arrests, stories of some pretty crass and criminal things toward women ... he kind of spiraled out of control and wasn't a very likable person. He eventually lost his sportcasting job because those were the days before Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis and Shannon Sharpe paved the way for absolute dregs of humanity to be on television.

In good news, Billy Bob seems to have calmed down now, though, and blames his troubles on ... wait for it ... wait for it ... concussions. Overall, he spent nine years with the Chiefs, logging 111 starts, 40 sacks, and two all-pro selections, so he gets a pass by society for the post-NFL transgressions, kind of like that good linebacker in your high school got a pass for beating you up and stuffing you in your locker.

I liked Bill better before researching his post-NFL life, but hey, he fought Raiders so I'll still give him a thumbs up. If you would like to book Bill for a speaking engagement, or perhaps to beat up someone you don't like, you can book him here: http://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/bill-maas/

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVFA7XBI_sTNhoL71N5bkB8OgEa8Y79qfG9vGTVaHVaazJM7g

By the way, his wife or girlfriend or whoever really takes care of herself.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/624021190386954240/mTGWtCMA.jpg

[Rain Man]

With the Bill Maas selection, we are now entering the top quartile of picks. We had the 4th quartile of busts, the 3rd quartile of disappointments, and the 2nd quartile of strong players, and now we have some fun with the top quartile of stars.

[Scooter LaCanforno]

#15 - Bill Maas, NT, 1984. 5th pick.

You can't say that the Chiefs ignored the defensive line in late 70s and early 80s. They drafted Art Still with the 2nd overall pick in 1978, Mike Bell with the 2nd overall pick in 1979, and Bill Maas with the 5th overall pick in 1984.

It wasn't a sure thing, though. There was all sorts of drama around Bill in the draft. First of all, this was the inaugural year of the USFL. Bill was a Pennsylvania kid in high school and played in college at Pitt. The USFL, in a savvy move, held a territorial draft and Bill was selected by the Pittsburgh Maulers. (However, it seems that he must've not seriously considered the USFL.)

The second bit of drama surrounded Carl Banks. There were rumors that he was the #1 guy on the Chiefs' board, and that they were trying to trade up with the Giants into the 3rd pick to get him. For some reason, though, such a trade never happened, but the rumor was everywhere. The Giants ended up taking Banks themselves and the Chiefs stayed at five.

As for Maas, he was surprised to be drafted by KC. Again with the Pennsylvania connections, the Eagles told him that they would draft him in the #4 spot, and San Diego told him that they'd take him at #6 if he was available. Kansas City never contacted him. But the Eagles ended up drafting Kenny Jackson (insert Simpsons bully saying "Ha Ha" here), and the Chiefs took him.

Bill was a five-tool nose tackle from Day One. He could hit people for power, hit people for average, throw blockers, run over blockers, and run the field. The league recognized it, and Bill is one of four Chiefs who have been named the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year. Those four are Bill Maas, Dale Carter, Derrick Thomas, and Marcus Peters. (Jim Marsalis was named the AFL defensive rookie of the Year by Pro Football Weekly, but the NFL winner was Joe Greene. so ... yeah ... I'll yield the overall nod to Greene.)

Perhaps the most impressive thing about Bill was that he averaged 5.0 sacks per year during his six years as a nose tackle. That's really pretty darn good for a classic 3-4 nose tackle.

He was pretty dominant until 1988, and then the injury bug hit. He missed half of 1988 with a knee and almost half of 1989 with a broken arm. But Marty Schottenheimer, the new coach, was smart. 1989 was the first year of NFL free agency, and Marty picked up an unknown nose tackle to back up Bill. With Bill's injury the new kid, Dan Saleaumua, got a lot of playing time, and he never gave up the starting job. When Bill came back, he moved to the right defensive end slot for the remainder of his Chiefs career.

In 1993, Bill presumably believed that the Chiefs couldn't go anywhere with Joe Montana at quarterback, or the Packers threw a lot of money at him, so he signed with Green Bay. Okay, truth be told, it was actually the second reason - the Packers threw him a lot of money. But he couldn't beat out John Jurkovic for the starting job and retired the next year.

After that, it gets a little ugly. If you're old enough, you probably remember that he exercised very poor judgment during the player's strike when he was riding around with a shotgun and encouraging that idiot Jack Del Rio to attack Otis Taylor. That was a portent of things to come. Cocaine arrests, gun arrests, stories of some pretty crass and criminal things toward women ... he kind of spiraled out of control and wasn't a very likable person. He eventually lost his sportcasting job because those were the days before Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis and Shannon Sharpe paved the way for absolute dregs of humanity to be on television.

In good news, Billy Bob seems to have calmed down now, though, and blames his troubles on ... wait for it ... wait for it ... concussions. Overall, he spent nine years with the Chiefs, logging 111 starts, 40 sacks, and two all-pro selections, so he gets a pass by society for the post-NFL transgressions, kind of like that good linebacker in your high school got a pass for beating you up and stuffing you in your locker.

I liked Bill better before researching his post-NFL life, but hey, he fought Raiders so I'll still give him a thumbs up. If you would like to book Bill for a speaking engagement, or perhaps to beat up someone you don't like, you can book him here: http://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/bill-maas/

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVFA7XBI_sTNhoL71N5bkB8OgEa8Y79qfG9vGTVaHVaazJM7g

By the way, his wife for girlfriend or whoever really takes care of herself.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/624021190386954240/mTGWtCMA.jpg


I thought Bill Maas married Dan Marino's sister. Don't know if they're still married.

[Rain Man]

I thought Bill Maas married Dan Marino's sister. Don't know if they're still married.

Oh, good memory. Now that you mention it, I remember some connection to Dan.

My guess is this isn't the same woman, but if so, the Marino family has good genes.

[UK_Chief]

Love love love this thread. However... Fisher above Larry Johnson?? He was a bone head but you can't argue with his numbers. And this year's pick shouldn't be in. But anyway, continue!

[Rain Man]

Love love love this thread. However... Fisher above Larry Johnson?? He was a bone head but you can't argue with his numbers. And this year's pick shouldn't be in. But anyway, continue!

It was a tough call. Larry's star burned bright, but very short. He really only had 2.5 years of greatness, but it really was greatness. I think Fisher could give us a decade of solid work. Not sure which I prefer.

[UK_Chief]

It was a tough call. Larry's star burned bright, but very short. He really only had 2.5 years of greatness, but it really was greatness. I think Fisher could give us a decade of solid work. Not sure which I prefer.

Your thread, your rules. I'm happy to defer to your opinion but Larry was a bright spot in a pretty terrible era for the chiefs so maybe I rate him higher than I should. If only he had a brain in his head...

[Rain Man]

#14. Dale Carter, CB, 1992. 20th pick.

The 1992 draft was a colossal bust in the first round. If you go back and look at it here - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/draft.htm - it was littered with nonproductive players.

But buried down in Pick 20 was an ultra-athletic cornerback/safety from Tennessee who had returned kicks and made plays with the best of them. Dale Carter was a Georgia native who had gone to Ellsworth Community College in Iowa before transferring to the University of Tennessee. (Today he is a member of the Ellsworth Community College Hall of Fame, in case you were wondering.) He excelled at Tennessee, being named an All-American his senior year, so Marty and Carl nabbed him at Pick 20.

Dale immediately made an impact. In his first appearance in Week 1 against San Diego, he returned a punt 46 yards for an impressive touchdown and recorded an interception. By the time November rolled around, people were nodding their heads. Here's what the New York Times had to say:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/24/sports/on-pro-football-no-second-guessing-on-chiefs-no-1-pick.html

When the Kansas City Chiefs made free safety Dale Carter of Tennessee their first-round pick and the 20th overall selection in the National Football League draft eight months ago, skeptics wondered if the Chiefs had squandered a high pick by using it in an area that was one of the team's strengths.

The Chiefs had long featured one the league's swiftest and most effective secondaries. Saftey Deron Cherry was retiring, but returning was the group's nucleus, cornerbacks Kevin Ross and Albert Lewis. There appeared more pressing needs elsewhere, possibly a quarterback to groom or more size and speed at receiver.

Since Lewis broke his left forearm Nov. 8 against San Diego, however, Carter has been a starter at left cornerback and has become a dual threat for the Chiefs: an aggressive, flashy cornerback, who has five interceptions, and a daring punt returner, who has returned two for scores. In Kansas City's 24-14 victory at Seattle on Sunday night, Carter once again exhibited his versatility. He intercepted a pass and returned a punt 86 yards for a touchdown.

The 6-foot-2-inch, 185-pound Carter will be 23 years old Saturday. He is one of those rare N.F.L. finds, a rookie who quickly grasps tricky pro concepts and immediately becomes an impact player.

Yes, the New York Times thought the Chiefs should have drafted a quarterback.

Dale was named the NFL defensive rookie of the year despite starting only nine games in a stacked cornerback position. He returned punts full time that season, scoring two touchdowns, and also returned several kickoffs.

When Dale arrived in 1992, Lewis and Ross were still the cornerbacks, but Burruss and Cherry had retired in 1991. Dale's performance enabled the Chiefs to move an aging Kevin Ross to free safety, teaming up Carter and Lewis in what had to be the most athletic cornerback tandem in NFL history. Jeepers.

But that depth only lasted a year. The following year, Lewis went to the Raiders and Ross became a Falcon, and suddenly Carter had none of the Fab Four DBs with him any more. That was when he stepped up his game and went to four straight pro bowls, even stepping in to play wide receiver on occasion. He's one of a very tiny handful of modern players who have scored in all three phases of the game: receiving touchdown, interception touchdown, and punt return touchdown.

Of course, when you think about Chiefs cornerbacks, you think about pairs: Lewis and Ross, Emmitt Thomas and Jim Marsalis, and so on. In 1995, as Carter entered his fourth season, Marty completed the set, bringing in a physical James Hasty to pair up with the graceful Dale Carter. The two cornerbacks shut down offenses together for the next four seasons, including 1997 when both cornerbacks went to the pro bowl.

The other thing Hasty did was mentor Carter, who was not always the best citizen, and I'll say no more about that until I talk about how he became a Bronco. But here's a poignant story about how Joe Valerio had to step in when Dale was being a jerk: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2008/2/7/93754/99374. But again, go ahead and assume that this happened after he became a Bronco.

Alas, nothing lasts forever. In 1998, Dale played hurt with a forearm injury, and at one critical junction in a game, he actually entered the game in an emergency with his arm in a sling due to other injuries on the field. The Chiefs were pondering what to do as free agency hit, but with his good arm Dale pulled the slot machine and it came up triple 7's.

For some inexplicable reason, the Broncos threw a veritable Brinks truck at Dale. While we all hated to see him prostitute himself like that, it was a great personal decision in retrospect and it actually helped the Chiefs. The Broncos gave him ... well, read this news article. It's ridiculous. Remember that this was 1999, so it's the equivalent of roughly double that amount today. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/broncos-sign-dale-carter/

The Broncos have agreed with four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Dale Carter on a six-year contract worth $34.8 million, making him the second highest paid defensive back in the NFL. According to Carter's agent, Mitch Frankel, Carter will receive a signing bonus of $7.8 million.

The signing will likely not be announced by the Broncos until next week, giving the team more time to clear room under the salary cap.*

The Broncos took the first step Wednesday when they released eight-time Pro Bowl safety Steve Atwater, who was scheduled to make $3.3 million in 1999.**

"Due to the club's salary cap constraints and in fairness to Steve, the club has released him from his contract," Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said. "Suggesting that Steve's contract be reduced was not a consideration."

Carter's average annual salary of $5.8 million ranks Carter behind only Dallas' Deion Sanders, who will enter the final year of a five-year, $35 million deal in 1999. Carter earned $3.867 million last season.

* - Note that this was fictional since the Broncos were cheating on the salary cap.

** - Ha ha, they released Atwater to sign him.

Dale busted so hard with the Broncos that it sounded like those turkeys hitting the cement in that WKRP Thanksgiving special. He played one season for them, then got suspended for an entire season for substance abuse, and the Broncos cut him.*** He's widely viewed as one of their worst free agent signings ever: http://milehighsports.com/the-worst-free-agents-in-broncos-history/ and http://bleacherreport.com/articles/776555-denver-broncos-the-10-worst-free-agent-signings-in-broncos-history He drove off with a ton of money and a lot of drugs, and the Broncos took an enormous salary cap hit.****

*** - Just so you know, he was the third Bronco that season who was suspended for substance abuse.

**** - They were still cheating on the salary cap, though.


He bounced around the league for four more seasons after that, going to the Vikings, Saints, and even the Ravens. He kept getting into trouble - drugs, guns, DUIs, and general knuckleheadedry, and it looked like he was headed for major trouble.

He also declared bankruptcy in 2002, which is a pretty impressive feat considering these opening paragraphs from a New York Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/26/sports/pro-football-big-contracts-didn-t-stop-bankruptcy.html

Dale Carter signed a four-year, $22.8 million contract with the Denver Broncos in 1999. He signed a five-year, $28 million contract with the New Orleans Saints two weeks ago.

But Carter, a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback in the National Football League, has apparently not been able to keep his spending in line with his income. He once spent $30,000 on jewelry in Atlanta. He has bought many cars and houses, giving some to relatives.

Carter, adept at chasing down wide receivers, is now being pursued by nearly 20 creditors, including the Broncos and the Internal Revenue Service. They say he has stopped making payments on many purchases he made on credit.

Carter declared bankruptcy in Florida last month. A court-appointed trustee is preparing to liquidate his assets and distribute them to creditors on a pro-rated basis; a hearing for creditors is scheduled to take place today in Miami.


I don't even know how you can do that. He must have literally been throwing money off the tops of buildings. How is bankruptcy even possible? And why did he not give me any of that money?

Regardless, though, he somehow survived all of that and seems happy. He's involved in a small foundation to help young men and women, and his son, the interestingly named Nigel Warrior, is now following in his tradition as a safety at the University of Tennessee. We'll see if the Chiefs draft him in a couple of years.

All in all, Dale had a good Chiefs career. He spent seven years with the team, made 88 starts, went to four pro bowls, and was generally an exciting player to watch.

Here's some Chiefs coach trying to keep Dale from making an interception during a game. What the hell are you doing, dude?

https://scottweaverphotos.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/chiefs.jpg

And here's a Dale Carter action figure waving at you.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/85/7d/c2/857dc24755a283c3c9d46c1b6a8d51ad.jpg

[Rasputin]

I loved Dale Carter. It still pisses me off that the Denver Broncos tied up Dale and put a gun to his head and made him do coke lines.

[Rain Man]

I loved Dale Carter. It still pisses me off that the Denver Broncos tied up Dale and put a gun to his head and made him do coke lines.

No kidding. He was a good guy and solid citizen, and then when he goes to the Broncos, bam. He gets suspended for a year. They corrupted the poor guy.

[rico]

Freaking jewelry. That is something I am incapable of understanding. Why on Earth do these guys think they need to spend millions of dollars on bling? What use does it get? Seriously...do these guys literally believe that if they don't have bling, they won't get laid? Because if so, they are dead wrong. It makes me sick hearing about these guys spending millions of dollars on useless jewelry (that I think looks ridiculous to begin with) when I am struggling like a motor scooter to pay my student loans and likely will struggle with that for a very long time. These guys are blowing money...ON ****ING JEWELRY!!!!! WHY?!?!?

I remember watching that ESPN 30 for 30, "Broke." These football players who made millions were talking about how they spent millions of dollars on jewelry. They said that there was something that football players had...I think it was called "the helmet effect." Something along the lines of when they are playing football, people don't recognize them as easily because their heads/faces are covered by a helmet. Therefore when they buy a bunch of expensive bling and wear it out to da clubs, people know that they are someone of importance in case they didn't recognize them to begin with...because they are wearing stupid looking jewelry. Freaking jewelry. These assholes would be much happier if they didn't spend their millions on jewelry and were able to impress people with their personalities...they'd probably end up meeting people who aren't as predatory by nature in the process.

Jewelry...I hate it. Such a stupid fad for these athletes and rappers or whoever...they'd be much happier without even considering investing in jewelry with their money. I don't feel sorry for any athlete who goes broke if it turns out that the person spent any large sum of cash on jewelry.

[Dartgod]

I thought Bill Maas married Dan Marino's sister. Don't know if they're still married.

Oh, good memory. Now that you mention it, I remember some connection to Dan.

My guess is this isn't the same woman, but if so, the Marino family has good genes.

His first marriage was to Cindi Marino, Dan's sister. Then he married a DJ from KY-102, Frankie.

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/c0.91.1080.1080/12545276_557846194366233_1939750239_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTE3MTA4NzI0MDE1NzEzODk0MA%3D%3D.2.c

Wikipedia says his current wife is named Sarah. I assume she's the one in the picture.

[Rain Man]

Freaking jewelry. That is something I am incapable of understanding. Why on Earth do these guys think they need to spend millions of dollars on bling? What use does it get? Seriously...do these guys literally believe that if they don't have bling, they won't get laid? Because if so, they are dead wrong. It makes me sick hearing about these guys spending millions of dollars on useless jewelry (that I think looks ridiculous to begin with) when I am struggling like a motor scooter to pay my student loans and likely will struggle with that for a very long time. These guys are blowing money...ON ****ING JEWELRY!!!!! WHY?!?!?

I remember watching that ESPN 30 for 30, "Broke." These football players who made millions were talking about how they spent millions of dollars on jewelry. They said that there was something that football players had...I think it was called "the helmet effect." Something along the lines of when they are playing football, people don't recognize them as easily because their heads/faces are covered by a helmet. Therefore when they buy a bunch of expensive bling and wear it out to da clubs, people know that they are someone of importance in case they didn't recognize them to begin with...because they are wearing stupid looking jewelry. Freaking jewelry. These assholes would be much happier if they didn't spend their millions on jewelry and were able to impress people with their personalities...they'd probably end up meeting people who aren't as predatory by nature in the process.

Jewelry...I hate it. Such a stupid fad for these athletes and rappers or whoever...they'd be much happier without even considering investing in jewelry with their money. I don't feel sorry for any athlete who goes broke if it turns out that the person spent any large sum of cash on jewelry.

Hmm, the helmet theory is interesting and I suspect it's valid. And I guess I can see how the jewelry offsets that. But it sure seems like an expensive and impractical way to do it. Just wear your jersey or something.

It's funny that you would want attention, too. I think the recognizable celebrities don't want attention and try to remain low key. Maybe it goes back to that helmet thing.

When I was researching Dwayne Bowe and he was telling ESPN about the entire floor of girls at the hotel, he mentioned that they knew everything about him. So you've got a subset of people (who are likely trouble with a capital T) who'll recognize you regardless of the helmet. So I guess they're trying to impress the ones who won't recognize them.

It's an interesting phenomenon, and I guess to some extent it's a validation of the jewelry as a concept. But I agree with you that the whole thing seems stupid and it impresses the wrong type of person. You can buy a Lamborghini for half the price of some of the jewelry and I guarantee that it'll get you attention.

[Hydrae]

Dale busted so hard with the Broncos that it sounded like those turkeys hitting the cement in that WKRP Thanksgiving special.

ROFL

OMG, I almost busted out loud at work when I read that. I, like many, have always loved your posting style and the humor that you include but this may be the funniest line of yours I have ever read!

[rico]

Hmm, the helmet theory is interesting and I suspect it's valid. And I guess I can see how the jewelry offsets that. But it sure seems like an expensive and impractical way to do it. Just wear your jersey or something.

It's funny that you would want attention, too. I think the recognizable celebrities don't want attention and try to remain low key. Maybe it goes back to that helmet thing.

When I was researching Dwayne Bowe and he was telling ESPN about the entire floor of girls at the hotel, he mentioned that they knew everything about him. So you've got a subset of people (who are likely trouble with a capital T) who'll recognize you regardless of the helmet. So I guess they're trying to impress the ones who won't recognize them.

It's an interesting phenomenon, and I guess to some extent it's a validation of the jewelry as a concept. But I agree with you that the whole thing seems stupid and it impresses the wrong type of person. You can buy a Lamborghini for half the price of some of the jewelry and I guarantee that it'll get you attention.

Funny you mention Bowe. I just watched a clip of him from TMZ. I think it's on YouTube somewhere. He had the TMZ crew on him and a couple girls were like who is that? And they were like, "this is Dwayne." They were like, "Dwayne who?" And they said, "Dwayne Johnson?!" And the big joke of the skit is that a lot of these people thought he was Dwayne Johnson aka The Rock. Bowe handled it with grace...he seemed to think it was funny. And there was one girl on him who knew he was Dwayne Bowe.

[Rain Man]

Funny you mention Bowe. I just watched a clip of him from TMZ. I think it's on YouTube somewhere. He had the TMZ crew on him and a couple girls were like who is that? And they were like, "this is Dwayne." They were like, "Dwayne who?" And they said, "Dwayne Johnson?!" And the big joke of the skit is that a lot of these people thought he was Dwayne Johnson aka The Rock. Bowe handled it with grace...he seemed to think it was funny. And there was one girl on him who knew he was Dwayne Bowe.

Heh. I saw that when I was researching Dwayne. Pretty funny.

[Rain Man]

#13. Marcus Peters, CB, 2015. 18th pick.

Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, only two Chiefs have made the pro bowl in their first two seasons and made an all-pro list in that time. The first was Derrick Thomas and the second was Marcus Peters. That's good company. (In full disclosure, E.J. Holub and Jim Marsalis did it in the AFL, though an AFL all-pro involved less competition.)

Now let's go to the rest of the league. Here's a list of every cornerback since the AFL-NFL merger who made the pro bowl in both of his first two seasons:

Mike Haynes (Hall of Fame)
Ronnie Lott (Hall of Fame)
Lemar Parrish (8-time pro bowler)
Marcus Peters (current player)
Patrick Peterson (current player, 6 pro bowls to date)
Everson Walls (4-time pro bowler and absolutely should be in the Hall of Fame)
Charles Woodson (9-time pro bowler)

Now I want you to go outside. Step out into your yard and look up. See that blue thing up there? That's the limit for Marcus Peters. Not bad for a guy with this draft profile summary on NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/marcus-peters?id=2552488


BOTTOM LINE Talented cover cornerback with size, ball skills and the confidence NFL teams are looking for, but lacks the necessary discipline and maturity on the field and in practice. Peters has raw talent, but is far from a polished cornerback, and that is without taking the character concerns into consideration.

And we got an informative comment from an NFL scout in his draft profile. I'm guessing this guy scouts for the Rams or Lions or some such team:

SOURCES TELL US "I wouldn't take him inside the first two rounds. He's good, but he's not that good that I would be willing to deal with his emotional issues." -- NFC personnel director


Going into the draft, Marcus was seen as a first-round talent, but there were a few concerns about his personality. A few. The New York Post summarized it thusly: http://nypost.com/2015/04/18/checkered-past-follows-huskies-cb-into-draft/

As well as failing a drug test in 2011, Peters was suspended in 2013 for academic problems, banned from working out by Washington coaches in the 2014 offseason, suspended for a game last year for head-butting an opponent and throwing a sideline tantrum, suspended again for being late to team meetings and finally kicked off the team by coach Chris Petersen after missing a practice.

That statement is missing the bigger issue that was covered elsewhere in the article:


Despite first-round talent, Peters is thought to have been removed entirely from some draft boards already because of reports that, among his many transgressions, Peters choked a Huskies assistant coach last season before being kicked off the team in November.

Peters denied the choking allegation at the scouting combine in February, telling reporters it was “false.” But power-conference programs don’t usually expel one of the top players in the country for minor offenses.

On top of that, he went to the Combine and ran a 4.53, which placed him in the bottom half of defensive backs. So he began dropping faster than a William Bartee interception attempt.

The Chiefs took him at #18, and the slow character risk won the starting job at LCB in training camp. Then he came out in Week 1 and made an interception on his first play in the NFL. His very first play.

And.

Kept.

Going.

He's finished two seasons now, and has 14 interceptions. Here's a list of every NFL player since the pass rule changes in 1977 who has recorded 14 or more interceptions during his first two NFL season:

Eric Harris, 1980 - 14 interceptions for the Chiefs
Everson Walls, 1981 - 18 interceptions, and he should be in the Hall of Fame
Eugene Daniel, 1984 - 14 interceptions
Marcus Peters, 2015 - 14 interceptions for the Chiefs

Take note that his feat had not been accomplished in more than 30 years, and that he is the first player whose name doesn't start with E to accomplish the feat.

So now let's look forward. I'll consider only cornerbacks who were drafted between 1977 and 2007, and who made at least two pro bowls in their career. That list is also short:

Raymond Clayborn
Darrelle Revis
Ty Law
Dale Carter
Antonio Cromartie
Jerry Gray
Antoine Winfield
Hanford Dixon
Gill Byrd
Deltha O'Neal (This is really more about Matt Cassel than anything.)

They average 11 years in the league, 10 years starting, 4 pro bowls, and 1 all-pro selection. With two pro bowls and an all-pro already in his quiver, Marcus is running way faster than that pace, but even if you assume that he slows down to average, he would move up into the top ten all time for the Chiefs' first-round choices. By placing him 13th, I'm being conservative.

In the end, we know that he's only two years into his career and a lot can happen going forward, but it's safe to say that he's on a path for greatness if he keeps up his current pace. And he will. Oh, yes. He will.

Here's a picture of him winning the game against the Panthers last year, in case you forgot how great he is.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5828ebbd46e27a28008b6593/chiefs-cornerback-marcus-peters-comes-up-with-amazing-strip-to-set-up-game-winning-field-goal-and-hand-the-panthers-a-brutal-loss.jpg

[Rasputin]

Swag, that is one thing Marcus Peters brings to the Kansas City Chiefs defense.

[rico]

Man...I hope we lock Peters up as a Chief. Sometimes I wonder if he likes it in KC.

[Rain Man]

#12. John Alt, LT, 1984. 21st pick.

Here's the main thing you need to know about John Alt: he had the highest strength score of any lineman in Tecmo Bowl: https://tecmobowlers.com/2017/07/11/john-alt-tecmos-strongest-man/#_ftnref1

https://tecmobowlers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Alt_TSBs_Strongest_Man.png

A group of Tecmo hackers at the above site programmed an offensive line of 5 John Alts against an all-Derrick Thomas defensive line, and the quarterback had ten seconds in the pocket. John Alt was a top-notch left tackle.

https://tecmobowlers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/TSB_Alt_vs_DT_01.gif

It wasn't all roses with John, though. The Chiefs drafted him in 1984, and he had the initial back problems that would plague him for his entire career. He couldn't stay on the field, starting only 7 games in his first two years. In 1986, he finally underwent back surgery and didn't start a single game. I remember being a college kid at this time and thinking, "Man, that guy was a bust."

He started coming back in 1987, starting nine games, and then he finally got healthy. Boom. He became a top-notch starter for the next nine seasons. Over his 13 years, he started 149 games and made two pro bowls, in 1992 and 1993.

In 1994, he had a neck injury that cost him some playing time, and it was believed to be a factor in Joe Montana's retirement. Without Alt at LT, Montana took a beating and called it quits. Alt came back the for two more seasons, but two bulging disks in his back finally made him ride off into the sunset as training camp was about to start in 1997.

But it was a good ride. Here's what Derrick Thomas said upon hearing about John's retirement:

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/206671325/

. "In eight seasons I've faced almost every tackle in the National Football League, and I've beaten them all," eight-time Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Thomas said. "But in eight years of practice and scrimmage, I can only remember beating John Alt once


Lest you think that John was just a big, strong guy...well, he was. He was a giant. And he wore enormous shoulder pads that made him look even more intimidating. But he had the feet of a ballerina. You may ask why he only made two pro bowls in 13 years if he was so good, and there's a simple explanation. Remember how we discussed earlier that Bill Maas screwed Dan Marino's sister? Well, Dan Marino screwed John Alt, though that was in a professional way rather than personal. During most of John's career, Marino was in Miami, and you couldn't sack Marino. He had such a quick release that a 55-gallon drum of oil could protect him, and that's what happened. Miami LT Richmond Webb got credit for Marino's quick release, screwing John Alt out of many well-deserved pro bowl spots. Without Marino in Miami, John Alt is probably way higher on this list.

But hey, #12 is still a really good spot. Let's depart this post with a look at just how intimidating John Alt was on the field. Dang, that guy was big.

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/john_alt_1988_12_11.jpghttp://www.kcchiefs.com/assets/images/longreads/2015/willshields/fullwidth-3.jpg

[RippedmyFlesh]

Listed at 6'8 298 profootballreference.com

[patteeu]

I'm starting to think I undervalued my #11 guess.

[Rasputin]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KnnHprUGKF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[penbrook]

#13. Marcus Peters, CB, 2015. 18th pick.

Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, only two Chiefs have made the pro bowl in their first two seasons and made an all-pro list in that time. The first was Derrick Thomas and the second was Marcus Peters. That's good company. (In full disclosure, E.J. Holub and Jim Marsalis did it in the AFL, though an AFL all-pro involved less competition.)

Now let's go to the rest of the league. Here's a list of every cornerback since the AFL-NFL merger who made the pro bowl in both of his first two seasons:

Mike Haynes (Hall of Fame)
Ronnie Lott (Hall of Fame)
Lemar Parrish (8-time pro bowler)
Marcus Peters (current player)
Patrick Peterson (current player, 6 pro bowls to date)
Everson Walls (4-time pro bowler and absolutely should be in the Hall of Fame)
Charles Woodson (9-time pro bowler)

Now I want you to go outside. Step out into your yard and look up. See that blue thing up there? That's the limit for Marcus Peters. Not bad for a guy with this draft profile summary on NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/marcus-peters?id=2552488


BOTTOM LINE Talented cover cornerback with size, ball skills and the confidence NFL teams are looking for, but lacks the necessary discipline and maturity on the field and in practice. Peters has raw talent, but is far from a polished cornerback, and that is without taking the character concerns into consideration.

And we got an informative comment from an NFL scout in his draft profile. I'm guessing this guy scouts for the Rams or Lions or some such team:

SOURCES TELL US "I wouldn't take him inside the first two rounds. He's good, but he's not that good that I would be willing to deal with his emotional issues." -- NFC personnel director


Going into the draft, Marcus was seen as a first-round talent, but there were a few concerns about his personality. A few. The New York Post summarized it thusly: http://nypost.com/2015/04/18/checkered-past-follows-huskies-cb-into-draft/

As well as failing a drug test in 2011, Peters was suspended in 2013 for academic problems, banned from working out by Washington coaches in the 2014 offseason, suspended for a game last year for head-butting an opponent and throwing a sideline tantrum, suspended again for being late to team meetings and finally kicked off the team by coach Chris Petersen after missing a practice.

That statement is missing the bigger issue that was covered elsewhere in the article:


Despite first-round talent, Peters is thought to have been removed entirely from some draft boards already because of reports that, among his many transgressions, Peters choked a Huskies assistant coach last season before being kicked off the team in November.

Peters denied the choking allegation at the scouting combine in February, telling reporters it was “false.” But power-conference programs don’t usually expel one of the top players in the country for minor offenses.

On top of that, he went to the Combine and ran a 4.53, which placed him in the bottom half of defensive backs. So he began dropping faster than a William Bartee interception attempt.

The Chiefs took him at #18, and the slow character risk won the starting job at LCB in training camp. Then he came out in Week 1 and made an interception on his first play in the NFL. His very first play.

And.

Kept.

Going.

He's finished two seasons now, and has 14 interceptions. Here's a list of every NFL player since the pass rule changes in 1977 who has recorded 14 or more interceptions during his first two NFL season:

Eric Harris, 1980 - 14 interceptions for the Chiefs
Everson Walls, 1981 - 18 interceptions, and he should be in the Hall of Fame
Eugene Daniel, 1984 - 14 interceptions
Marcus Peters, 2015 - 14 interceptions for the Chiefs

Take note that his feat had not been accomplished in more than 30 years, and that he is the first player whose name doesn't start with E to accomplish the feat.

So now let's look forward. I'll consider only cornerbacks who were drafted between 1977 and 2007, and who made at least two pro bowls in their career. That list is also short:

Raymond Clayborn
Darrelle Revis
Ty Law
Dale Carter
Antonio Cromartie
Jerry Gray
Antoine Winfield
Hanford Dixon
Gill Byrd
Deltha O'Neal (This is really more about Matt Cassel than anything.)

They average 11 years in the league, 10 years starting, 4 pro bowls, and 1 all-pro selection. With two pro bowls and an all-pro already in his quiver, Marcus is running way faster than that pace, but even if you assume that he slows down to average, he would move up into the top ten all time for the Chiefs' first-round choices. By placing him 13th, I'm being conservative.

In the end, we know that he's only two years into his career and a lot can happen going forward, but it's safe to say that he's on a path for greatness if he keeps up his current pace. And he will. Oh, yes. He will.

Here's a picture of him winning the game against the Panthers last year, in case you forgot how great he is.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5828ebbd46e27a28008b6593/chiefs-cornerback-marcus-peters-comes-up-with-amazing-strip-to-set-up-game-winning-field-goal-and-hand-the-panthers-a-brutal-loss.jpg

Tyreek Hill made the pro bowl and won all pro his first year

[Rain Man]

I'm starting to think I undervalued my #11 guess.

I'll be curious about the opinions on #8 through #11. I've got four guys that could defensibly be placed in any order, and maybe a fifth as well. I'm really torn.

[Rain Man]

Tyreek Hill made the pro bowl and won all pro his first year

That's an impressive feat. Let's hope we can add him to the club next year with Derrick and Marcus. Or maybe even start an all-new club of two pro bowls and two all-pros in the first two years.