LNBS: What are our realistic expectations for Brett Veach?

[BossChief]

This is a stacked roster from top to bottom. The challenge Brett has is keeping the rosters young talent in town while adding to it through the draft.

The guy has a ton of big decisions on the horizon.

Trading Alex Smith at the appropriate time
Getting Mahomes inked before camp
Getting an extension in place with Mitch Morse
Letting DJ and Hali go at the appropriate time
Extending Terrance Mitchell
Extending Steven Nelson
Extending Dee Ford at the appropriate time/price
Making sure Marcus Peters stays in KC for his whole career
Deciding what to do with Allen Bailey, if he has a big year
Giving Bennie Logan an extension, if deserved

It's gonna be interesting to see which direction he goes with all of these.

What do you guys feel are realistic expectations for the next (presumably) 4 years?

Mimes to make sure Peters, Jones, Hill, Morse and Ford stay and that doesn't mean give them a blank check.

[Reerun_KC]

Do what fat Andy says and go lite on the Mayo.... Do that and it's all Twinkies and popsicles....

[RealSNR]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

[NJChiefsFan]

Mahomes is really more of a staff responsibility at this point.

-Handle the young talent's contracts well as they come up(Dorsey is gone in part due to this, so he needs to do better)

-Continue to draft well

-Continue to find talent outside of the draft


In the end I want him to make me not care that Chris Ballard is in Indy. Part of this will come from help of his staff. Dorsey had Ballard and Veach to help him. Veach may not have that kind of depth to draw on now.

[Nickhead]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

i agree with this message. :D

[Rasputin]

My expectations are to do away with the chicken shit recipe and make real chicken salad with fresh ingredients.

[Red Dawg]

Keep drafting well and get our cap in better shape so we can have opportunities to get better in the off season. Resign Peters and Hill when the time comes.

[rico]

What are Leigh Steinberg's clients generally like when it comes to signing their rookie contracts? Do any of them have a history of holding out or any of that garbage?

[rico]

If Veach was as instrumental in finding some of the talent that he did, then I'd prefer it if he turns out to be "hands on" and continues to be very involved in the scouting process...

[Eleazar]

Everything is second to the draft and free agency. If he stocks the team with talent as well as or better than Dorsey, he'll be a success. If we go backward in those areas, it was a terrible move no matter how much money Dorsey wanted or how casually he dressed around the office.

[Direckshun]

Well if Dorsey did one thing wrong it was dramatically mismanage the cap. Veach is going to be against the wall for about 12 months, so expect a bunch of tough decisions as he cleans up that mess.

I think Dorsey's mismanagement of the cap, along with his brilliant work to bring in Mahomes, makes trading Smith a necessity this coming offseason to open up the cap.

Probably the biggest challenge for Veach is improving the offensive weaponry, particularly receivers, with no 1st round pick and no cap room. We can't throw Mahomes out there with middling receiving talent.

[staylor26]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

I disagree. Mitchell was just flat out too good down the stretch to suddenly go to shit. He did it against the best of the best too. He was phenomenal against Brown in the playoff game, and his elite 3 cone translates to the football field.

[Rasputin]

Well if Dorsey did one thing wrong it was dramatically mismanage the cap. Veach is going to be against the wall for about 12 months, so expect a bunch of tough decisions as he cleans up that mess.

I think Dorsey's mismanagement of the cap, along with his brilliant work to bring in Mahomes, makes trading Smith a necessity this coming offseason to open up the cap.

Probably the biggest challenge for Veach is improving the offensive weaponry, particularly receivers, with no 1st round pick and no cap room. We can't throw Mahomes out there with middling receiving talent.

Wouldn't it be funny if Chiefs traded Alex Smith before the week 8 deadline?

LOL I know it won't happen but would be funny.

[Best22]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

Did you really just compare Fleming to Mitchell?

When did Fleming start 6 straight games (and not allow a single touchdown during that span?)

Terrence Mitchell is a reverse David Irving--a talent that got away from other teams

[Rausch]

Wouldn't it be funny if Chiefs traded Alex Smith before the week 8 deadline?

LOL I know it won't happen but would be funny.

It would rush Mahomes and tank our season...

[Rasputin]

It would rush Mahomes and tank our season...

I knew someone would say this but if we traded for a teams better backup than Tyler Bray would be then we wouldn't have to play Patrick Mahomes II right away. May not be great season but it's not like we are going to the Super Bowl with Alex Smith.

[JakeF]

Wouldn't it be funny if Chiefs traded Alex Smith before the week 8 deadline?

LOL I know it won't happen but would be funny.
Why would you think it's funny to risk trashing the first high-level QB prospects the Chiefs have had since Todd Blackledge?

[-King-]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

This. He played well, but let's not crown him yet. I'd lean toward him extremely outplaying his talent level last year than him actually being a #2 corner in the future.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rasputin]

Why would you think it's funny to risk trashing the first high-level QB prospects the Chiefs have had since Todd Blackledge?

Relax Ajax


I know I know :rolleyes:

[RunKC]

Well he doesn't have to do much of anything on the personnel side for awhile.

His main focus this year has got to be Dee Ford and Mitch Morse extensions and maybe Terrance Mitchell and Bennie Logan if deserved.

Andy is going to try to have Veach restructure guys to save money instead of outright cut them.

[Shaid]

Can we pump the brakes a bit on Terrence Mitchell?

For all we know the dude is another Jamell Fleming/Marcus Cooper. Both of those guys made big plays and had big games early in their Chiefs careers. Mitchell may not yet have been given enough rope to hang himself.

And he might.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving a guy like him a 3 year deal now based on the fact you can get him on a relatively cheap contract compared to what it would be if he stays consistent. However, I'd work to make it so you have no cap hit, etc. if you cut him after a year. Basically lock him in relatively cheap but not risk a long term issue. If he busts, you overpaid him the first year but we'd have had him here anyways.

[Quesadilla Joe]

10. It’ll be interesting to see where the learning curve for new Chiefs GM Brett Veach is. He’s spent most of his career as a road scout, and generally there’s an adjustment to working out of, let alone leading, an office.https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/07/20/nfl-carolina-panthers-ron-rivera-dave-gettleman-firing-marty-hurney

[Eleazar]

It would rush Mahomes and tank our season...

This team is not a contending team with Alex Smith under center, even if everything else goes right.

But I bet Andy would make the switch if the team is in danger of missing out on another playoff one-and-done. The Chiefs have always seemed to prize simple playoff appearances more than other teams. They rushed Houston back two years in a row when he clearly wasn't healthy, and that's not the only example.

But if things are even worse, the chances of Mahomes taking over are probably greater. Back when he drafted McNabb the Eagles came out of the gate flat, he yanked Pederson, then McNabb started the rest of the year.

Of course McNabb was thought to be essentially ready to play and Mahomes is more of a project, but I wouldn't rule out Andy using him to try to turn around a lost season.

[PAChiefsGuy]

This team is not a contending team with Alex Smith under center, even if everything else goes right.

But I bet Andy would make the switch if the team is in danger of missing out on another playoff one-and-done. The Chiefs have always seemed to prize simple playoff appearances more than other teams. They rushed Houston back two years in a row when he clearly wasn't healthy, and that's not the only example.

But if things are even worse, the chances of Mahomes taking over are probably greater. Back when he drafted McNabb the Eagles came out of the gate flat, he yanked Pederson, then McNabb started the rest of the year.

Of course McNabb was thought to be essentially ready to play and Mahomes is more of a project, but I wouldn't rule out Andy using him to try to turn around a lost season.

Broncos won the SB with Peyton Manning throwing 9 TDs 19 INTs during the regular season not too long ago.

We can win with Alex Smith. Football is a team game and he is not that bad.

[RunKC]

Broncos won the SB with Peyton Manning throwing 9 TDs 19 INTs during the regular season not too long ago.

We can win with Alex Smith. Football is a team game and he is not that bad.

No, we can't. The odds of that happening are slim to none. Alex couldn't even beat a shit secondary with his defense holding an elite offense out of the end zone all game.

It's not gonna happen

[penbrook]

To sign Mahomes before Training Camp

[Eleazar]

Broncos won the SB with Peyton Manning throwing 9 TDs 19 INTs during the regular season not too long ago.

We can win with Alex Smith. Football is a team game and he is not that bad.

Andy Reid and Alex Smith are not going to win a Super Bowl.

No, they are "not that bad". That's the book on both of them for their entire careers. They aren't that bad. They aren't good enough. They're at their ceiling.

[Simply Red]

Well if Dorsey did one thing wrong it was dramatically mismanage the cap.

SHIT cap manager. Just awful.

[DaneMcCloud]

What do you guys feel are realistic expectations for the next (presumably) 4 years?

1. Trading Alex Smith at the appropriate time

If Alex Smith returns to his 2015 form in 2017, I believe he'll play out his contract in Kansas City. Everyone in the franchise loves him. If he regresses or plays static to his 2016 performance, I don't think he can be traded. What team is going to take on a $20.6 million dollar cap hit for a 34 year old, regressing, QB?

2. Getting Mahomes inked before camp

My gut tells me that the Leigh Steinberg and the Chiefs have an agreement in place. Hunt is close with Steinberg and was thrilled that Mahomes was selected by KC. But for appearances sake, introduce the new GM, then introduce the 1st round QB.

3. Getting an extension in place with Mitch Morse

The Chiefs have the 2017 and 2018 seasons in which to extend Morse. I believe that Ford and Peters have priority over Morse but would be surprised if he wasn't extended. If he plays so well that the Chiefs can't afford him in 2019, they'll get a 3rd round comp pick.

4. Letting DJ and Hali go at the appropriate time

They're both under contract through the end of the 2018 season. The Chiefs would receive $15 million in cap space from releasing them in 2018, so I think this plays itself out. Neither will be cut this year because the salary cap won't allow it.

5. Extending Terrance Mitchell

The Chiefs are in a tough spot. If Mitchell plays well in 2017, they have to sign two starting cornerbacks. Even though they have the 5th year option on Peters, they can't pay Mitchell more than Peters. He'd have a fit. This is worth watching. A Comp pick is likely in play here, too.

5. Extending Steven Nelson

See above, although Nelson's worth is probably in the $5-6 million per range, which makes him signable (and easier to release, if DJ White actually becomes a thing). If they let him walk, they're probably looking at a 4th-6th round Comp Pick.

6. Extending Dee Ford at the appropriate time/price

I'm not sure if the Chiefs are going to have the option of extending Ford before his 5th year has ended. If he puts up 10 sacks over the course of the next two seasons, he's easily looking at $10 million per season, if not $12 with an inflated salary cap. I think they let this one play out, unless it becomes evident that Ford is going to be a dominant player, in which they extend him soon. But we've only seem glimpses of that player, so he'll need to put it all together.

7. Making sure Marcus Peters stays in KC for his whole career

If the Chiefs make the expected moves (Hali, DJ, Smith, Jah Reid, Colquitt), they can extend Peters in 2018. He still needs to prove he can keep his emotions in check but they have to re-sign him and it can't be ugly.

8. Deciding what to do with Allen Bailey, if he has a big year

Allen Bailey's under contract for 2017 and 2018. He'll be a Free Agent at age 30 in 2019. Considering the Chiefs drafted two DE's in the past two drafts in Chris Jones and Tanoh Kpassagnon, I think the only chance that Bailey has to return in 2019 is as a rotational role player but most likely, not at all.

9. Giving Bennie Logan an extension, if deserved

The Chiefs put themselves in a real pickle at the NT position. Although Dontari's Poe has declined since his 2015 back surgery, they probably could have locked him up with a backloaded 3 year, $24 million dollar deal with $10-12 guaranteed. Instead, they let him walk and are paying Logan $8 million in his "audition" year. If Logan plays as well as expected (and some people are saying he'll be an All Pro in the Chiefs defense), they're probably looking at least $8 million per, if not more. That's going to be tough to pull off with all of the other contracts that will need to be extended and risky, too.

[DaneMcCloud]

Andy Reid and Alex Smith are not going to win a Super Bowl.

No, they are "not that bad". That's the book on both of them for their entire careers. They aren't that bad. They aren't good enough. They're at their ceiling.

Smart people always talk in absolutes

[JakeF]

Relax Ajax


I know I know :rolleyes::)

[RealSNR]

If Alex Smith returns to his 2015 form in 2017, I believe he'll play out his contract in Kansas City. Everyone in the franchise loves him. If he regresses or plays static to his 2016 performance, I don't think he can be traded. What team is going to take on a $20.6 million dollar cap hit for a 34 year old, regressing, QB?



Depends. How many teams out there are as dumb as the Bears?

[JakeF]

Andy Reid and Alex Smith are not going to win a Super Bowl.

No, they are "not that bad". That's the book on both of them for their entire careers. They aren't that bad. They aren't good enough. They're at their ceiling.Then why did we keep Reid and fire Dorsey? If that is really the book on Andy Reid then shouldn't we have someone better to pair with Mahomes?

[DTLB58]

I think what everyone is forgetting about this is that right before Dorsey got fired he hired away from Green Bay, Chris Shea as the club’s Salary Cap and Legal Executive.

So, I'm not sure how much of the salary cap we can throw at Brett's feet?

I would think as much trouble as our cap got in, Clark is going to either keep close attention himself or tell these guys their jobs depends on keeping this in tack this time around.

[Halfcan]

Win a Superbowl!

If he does not do this-he is a failure.

[RealSNR]

Broncos won the SB with Peyton Manning throwing 9 TDs 19 INTs during the regular season not too long ago.

We can win with Alex Smith. Football is a team game and he is not that bad.

The Broncos won that Super Bowl because their defense was approaching the historically good 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs. I also think that was a bizarre-o NFC Championship game... really weird. I don't think Denver wins if they're facing Arizona.

Our defense is going to have to be on-par with that team. Alex already had a defense that good in San Francisco and couldn't pull it off.

We're going to need unprecedented strokes of luck for our defense to become THAT elite. We can't just be pretty good like we've been under Sutton. We've got to be GREAT. That means:

-Bennie Logan has to be all that and a bag of potato chips
-Terrence Mitchell can't be a lemon. He has to actually be a real starting CB
-Either DJ has to recover from his injury and return to form or one of these other ILB guys needs to blossom into an absolute rapist

In addition, we're going to need improvement out of:

-Steven Nelson/Philip Gaines/DJ White. We NEED a real nickel guy
-Chris Jones, but I think we're going to see it anyway out of him
-Dee Ford. He still hasn't demonstrated he can play the Will as well as Hali did in his prime. He needs to. We NEED him.
-It'd be really nice if Eric Berry maintained his stunning level of play that he's had the past two seasons

Aaaaand we're gonna need strokes of luck when it comes to injuries. Houston has to be fully recovered. Peters can't miss time. Ford can't miss time. And if any of those guys get injured, we're going to need the guy replacing him to be approaching or even exceeding the guy who was before him.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Odds are that some of these players improve and blossom but we still get bit by injuries and end up once again playing pretty good defense that just has one too many weaknesses to drag Alex's ass deep into the playoffs.

[PAChiefsGuy]

No, we can't. The odds of that happening are slim to none. Alex couldn't even beat a shit secondary with his defense holding an elite offense out of the end zone all game.

It's not gonna happen

He dropped 44-pts on a 'shit' secondary in a playoff gm without an MVP candidate Charles and with a bunch of WRs who aren't even in the league anymore. He also lit up the Saints in a playoff gm shootout against Drew Brees a HOF QB.

Steelers for whatever reason had our offenses number last year but don't act like Alex can't put up pts in a playoff gm, he can and he has.

Regardless this is and has been a defensive team. That's where most of our talent is. If we are going to win the SB it's going to mainly be because of them. They need to step up their run D this yr, they do that and we can beat anybody.

Steelers O didn't do great in the redzone but other than that they pretty much did what they wanted. Stop acting like they scored 3-pts, the fact they scored 18-pts all off FGs and had a TO in the redzone shows how much they dominated our D other than the redzone.

That loss is NOT just on Alex Smith and our offense.

[The Franchise]

He dropped 44-pts on a 'shit' secondary in a playoff gm without an MVP candidate Charles and with a bunch of WRs who aren't even in the league anymore. He also lit up the Saints in a playoff gm shootout against Drew Brees a HOF QB.

4+ fucking years ago. Face it....Smith is regressing and he's not going to magically get better at 33.

[PAChiefsGuy]

4+ ****ing years ago. Face it....Smith is regressing and he's not going to magically get better at 33.

He needs to adjust to teams QB Spying him more often. I'll agree with that.

[The Franchise]

He needs to adjust to teams QB Spying him more often. I'll agree with that.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tom-Hanks-orly.gif

[Hammock Parties]

You read the bible, Brett?

[Reerun_KC]

He needs to adjust to teams QB Spying him more often. I'll agree with that.

No team "spies" on Smith. That's laughable... He's not a threat that needs that kind of attention...

[RunKC]

He dropped 44-pts on a 'shit' secondary in a playoff gm without an MVP candidate Charles and with a bunch of WRs who aren't even in the league anymore. He also lit up the Saints in a playoff gm shootout against Drew Brees a HOF QB.

Steelers for whatever reason had our offenses number last year but don't act like Alex can't put up pts in a playoff gm, he can and he has.

Regardless this is and has been a defensive team. That's where most of our talent is. If we are going to win the SB it's going to mainly be because of them. They need to step up their run D this yr, they do that and we can beat anybody.

Steelers O didn't do great in the redzone but other than that they pretty much did what they wanted. Stop acting like they scored 3-pts, the fact they scored 18-pts all off FGs and had a TO in the redzone shows how much they dominated our D other than the redzone.

That loss is NOT just on Alex Smith and our offense.

The Colts defense was horrible and the Steeers defense was a little above average (very good front 7/shit secondary).

It's embarrassing that we see several missed opportunities in the passing game and lose while the next week we see the same horrible coverage from the Steelers but a real QB is destroying them.

[Hammock Parties]

No team "spies" on Smith. That's laughable... He's not a threat that needs that kind of attention...

I disagree, actually. I think teams started spying him part time last year...on third downs and in obvious passing situations.

That's why his rushing numbers plummeted (that and losing a step), and he wasn't able to take advantage of the defender spying him instead of covering someone else.

The book on how to stop an Andy Reid/Alex Smith offense is written. Everyone in the NFL has read it. Time to write a new book...

[PAChiefsGuy]

No team "spies" on Smith. That's laughable... He's not a threat that needs that kind of attention...

I'm not turning this into another Alex Smith thread. This is about Brett Veach. I said what I had to say about Smith so I'm going to leave it at that.

I know you guys are obsessed with Alex Smith but I'm not going to keep talking to the same people about the same topic in different threads. It's stupid. The topic has been beaten to death anyway.

Back on topic the main job I've always felt was most important for a GM is to draft well. I think as long as Veach does that Reid will have us be a consistent playoff team and hopefully get us that long awaited SB.

Obviously not overpaying for FAs or overpaying when resigning players is another huge huge part of being a great GM and I hope Veach can succeed at that as well.

[Reerun_KC]

I disagree, actually. I think teams started spying him part time last year...on third downs and in obvious passing situations.

That's why his rushing numbers plummeted (that and losing a step), and he wasn't able to take advantage of the defender spying him instead of covering someone else.

The book on how to stop an Andy Reid/Alex Smith offense is written. Everyone in the NFL has read it. Time to write a new book...
Fair evaluation..

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not turning this into another Alex Smith thread. This is about Brett Veach. I said what I had to say about Smith so I'm going to leave it at that.

I know you guys are obsessed with Alex Smith but I'm not going to keep talking to the same people about the same topic in different threads. It's stupid. The topic has been beaten to death anyway.

Back on topic the main job I've always felt was most important for a GM is to draft well. I think as long as Veach does that Reid will have us be a consistent playoff team and hopefully get us that long awaited SB.

Obviously not overpaying for FAs or overpaying when resigning players is another huge huge part of being a great GM and I hope Veach can succeed at that as well.

Your last paragraph..... We have to break the emotional tie with players and put a Superbowl as the main goal vs keeping some broke dick like DJ. Because someone has his jersey....

We tend to hold on to sentimental players 2-3 years past their usefulness....

[Tribal Warfare]

The Colts defense was horrible and the Steeers defense was a little above average (very good front 7/shit secondary).

It's embarrassing that we see several missed opportunities in the passing game and lose while the next week we see the same horrible coverage from the Steelers but a real QB is destroying them.

Ultimately, Andy believes Alex isn't the guy to take us to the SB no matter how Alexuals spin it.

[jjchieffan]

Broncos won the SB with Peyton Manning throwing 9 TDs 19 INTs during the regular season not too long ago.

We can win with Alex Smith. Football is a team game and he is not that bad.

Broncos we're gifted the Superfarce to send Manning out with a championship. That's not happening in KC.

[Chiefshrink]

Keep Andy and Clark in the loop on what you are doing.:D

[Tombstone RJ]

Veache's first job is to clean the jon, then pick up the freaking candy wrapper that fatass left in the hall. For **** sake already...

[Pablo]

Superbowl year one. And two. And three. And four....

[Nickhead]

Superbowl year one. And two. And three. And four....

okay picasso, stop painting pretty pictures. (albeit were that to happen i would openly masturbate in the public streets) :D

[Nickhead]

Veache's first job is to clean the jon, then pick up the freaking candy wrapper that fatass left in the hall. For **** sake already...

it is an OHS mandate! :D

[Black Bob]

1. Get rid of Alex or revise that contract.

2. Create an above average WR corps for the 2018 season.