Andy needs to start Mahomes this year, not 2018

[RunKC]

I know we are all still trying to get our boners down from Pat's incredible showing tonight, but in reality, Mahomes is not that far away from starting.

Can anyone outline the benefit of Mahomes sitting all season compared to him playing a handful of games at the end of the season, or even taking over at midseason? The real answer here is there is no downside. He's not going to get ruined.

And let's be clear on something else: this shouldn't be Alex's "last chance no matter what season". The only way he should be starting is if he's scoring points and doing what he's never done before, which won't happen. Otherwise Pat should start when he's ready.

We all agree that the kid has made some rookie mistakes and needs to work on some things, but look at how far he's come in 3 months? Imagine how much better he'll be in 2-2 1/2 more months.

Pat took chicken shit and turned it into chicken salad. He took the starters and drove down the field and scored a TD on the Bengals starters for Christ sakes.
I get that teams aren't gameplanning for the kid, but when they do, Andy will show his value and help him as that's one of his best strengths.

The end game is already known with Alex. We might as well get this kid some time in November on and roll with him to the playoffs and see what happens.

[O.city]

He definitely makes some wow throws and I myself was just arguing this earlier this week but I've changed.

I do think you learn by doing, but he's still got a ways to go in the structure of the offense. The one deep throw in the run was awesome, but the other two were more impressive to me. Stayed in the pocket and delivered strikes.

He's gotta get the intermediate and the short game down more before he's ready to go,

Sit him

[Sassy Squatch]

You're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

[notorious]

https://media.giphy.com/media/145hX7QVWqyili/giphy.gif

[eDave]

OMG! SHUT UP!

[O.city]

Alex needs to go out and have a great year so they can trade him anyway.

[notorious]

I can wait.


In the past, I knew things were going nowhere. But now there is a new hope, just waiting to be turned lose on the league.

[notorious]

Alex needs to go out and have a great year so they can trade him anyway.

This.

[O.city]

Temper the excitement a bit. This was against the titans backups backups. It's awesome to watch and I'm impressed at how far he's come.

But I think sitting is the way to go

[New World Order]

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/3/c5f316550d33f3febecaf6a7996b79aa/GW339H196

[O.city]

This.

I don't know that they can or will but if they could squeeze a 2nd round pick from Smith, that'd be swell

[DaFace]

Nah. Like a fine wine, Mahomes will be better if we let him age a little more. I can wait.

[Kyle DeLexus]

I don't know that they can or will but if they could squeeze a 2nd round pick from Smith, that'd be swell

We can package Smith and a 4th for the Jets 1st....at least it worked on Madden.

[RunKC]

Temper the excitement a bit. This was against the titans backups backups. It's awesome to watch and I'm impressed at how far he's come.

But I think sitting is the way to go

I agree.

Sit him for the next 12 weeks to get better and learn the playbook and then let's roll.

I'm all for starting him in week 12 vs Buffalo. 4 of the last 6 at home and one of the road games is the Jets. Ideal situation IMO

[O.city]

I agree.

Sit him for the next 12 weeks to get better and learn the playbook and then let's roll.

I'm all for starting him in week 12 vs Buffalo. 4 of the last 6 at home and one of the road games is the Jets. Ideal situation IMO

There's just so much fluidity in the locker room. If you're gonna start him, do it now. If not, I don't think you do unless it just goes off the rails.

If Smith is playing well and the chiefs are winning he needs to sit

[DaneMcCloud]

Nah.

Mahomes will be an excellent QB when the time is right but that time is not now.

Patience.

[carcosa]

Man, it's so hard to be sensible and say yeah, you gotta sit him. Because yeah, you gotta sit him... but do you REALLY gotta sit him???

[Nickhead]

looks great!!!

but you have to sit him, provided smith is healthy. smith has earned the chance to change :D

[New World Order]

I think you start him. I don't know if you do it right when the season starts, but I think you ease him in.

It's the best thing for him now and for the future.

He has a good line with weapons around him and he's obviously proven the game isn't too big for him in the preseason.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Temper the excitement a bit. This was against the titans backups backups. It's awesome to watch and I'm impressed at how far he's come.

But I think sitting is the way to go

Yes against their backups with our backups. He wasn't throwing to hill and kelce out there.

[Hammock Parties]

He needs a full season to work on his mechanics. Maybe insert him in two or three games, max, at the end of the season, if it is lost, just so he gets a good base knowledge of NFL speed and the flow of a game.

Then let him hit the ground running as the starter in minicamp 2018.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I don't think reid is as adamant about him not playing this year as everyone here is.
He made him 2. If he didn't feel confident doing that he would have gone after someone or handed it to someone who has been here years.
2 is one hit from playing. If reid didn't think he was ready he would have stayed 3.
An injury isn't the only reason he may play. Unlike fans reid is not willing to let a season go south.

[MMXcalibur]

You're only setting yourself up for heartache and frustration.
Accept that Alex Smith will be the quarterback this year and look forward to the future.

[wazu]

Agree completely. Start Mahomes now! Reid's personal commitments to Alex are what will delay this. Mahomes is our best chance to make a run THIS year.

[RippedmyFlesh]

You're only setting yourself up for heartache and frustration.
Accept that Alex Smith will be the quarterback this year and look forward to the future.

If he gets the job done. For once since alex has been here reid actually has another option.

[RobBlake]

Alex is the leader of this team. It amazes me how quickly guys jump for the next best thing when you have a playoff caliber qb already. I get it. There's no reason to rush him. This is alex last season, let him finish.

[tk13]

I actually agree that Mahomes has played well enough, you probably could throw him out there this year. Even though sometimes his footwork is terrible.

Reid isn't under any pressure to save his job, and Smith can win games. I doubt we see Mahomes. Reid is going to make him work and work and feel like he earned it. He hasn't handed him anything based on raw talent. He started him at #3 instead of 2 on the depth chart even though he was the better QB. I think it has zip to do with loyalty to Alex. Reid knows there's literally nothing lost by giving him more time to work on his weaknesses.

[Nickhead]

do you put him in if the chiefs are up 21 with 6 minutes left? fuck yeah!!!

do you put him in if the chiefs are down 21 with six minutes left? fuck no!!!

:thumb: :D

[RippedmyFlesh]

Alex is the leader of this team. It amazes me how quickly guys jump for the next best thing when you have a playoff caliber qb already. I get it. There's no reason to rush him. This is alex last season, let him finish.

If the chiefs are losing games because they aren't scoring you wait till next year?

[wazu]

Alex is the leader of this team. It amazes me how quickly guys jump for the next best thing when you have a playoff caliber qb already. I get it. There's no reason to rush him. This is alex last season, let him finish.

1-3

[Danguardace]

I can wait, possibly get him a #1 WR next off season.

[MMXcalibur]

What's going to be insufferable is the small group of assholes who will be hoping for Alex Smith to get hurt so that Reid will be forced to trot Mahomes out there.

You know it's coming.

[Hammock Parties]

What's going to be insufferable is the small group of assholes who will be hoping for Alex Smith to get hurt so that Reid will be forced to trot Mahomes out there.

You know it's coming.

https://media.tenor.com/images/41df50824da25b9789d59537da3d3511/tenor.gif

[RobBlake]

1-3

Tom Brady

[Baby Lee]

The preseason is over, 2017 regular season has started and 2018 is a year away.

Seems prudent that posters who insist on dwelling on what they wish was instead of what is and will be for the relevant future be monitored scrupulously for trolling.

[Nickhead]

The preseason is over, 2017 regular season has started and 2018 is a year away.

Seems prudent that posters who insist on dwelling on what they wish was instead of what is and will be for the relevant future be monitored scrupulously for trolling.

do we agree that it is what it is, and that even management isn't publicly committing to alex beyond this year.

andy's eyebrow wink about patrick does not help things, but ....

if alex does not light it up like drew brees the first four weeks it may become inevitable that the start mahomes now crowd could win out?

[mcaj22]

Alex will continue to be the same Alex thats been here the last four years, he will win you most games during the season, he will leave some throws out on the field that will have you screaming at your TV when he doesnt see a wide open streaking WR, he will lose a game or two against two crap teams he should have beat by 40. This will have CP screaming for Mahomes in every gameday thread, but its really typical Alex doing Alex Smith things. 10+ wins, a playoff game where we cant score a touchdown, a more elite QB beating Alex. Its clockwork really.

[crazycoffey]

Temper the excitement a bit. This was against the titans backups backups. It's awesome to watch and I'm impressed at how far he's come.

But I think sitting is the way to go

How did cassel look against our backups? Just saying, I see why some people can't temper the excitmemt.

But he sits until it's time not to sit. Whenever that is. Later this year or two years from now. It's Alex's team to keep or lose.

It's going to be a hell of a ride

[Nickhead]

Alex will continue to be the same Alex thats been here the last four years, he will win you most games during the season, he will leave some throws out on the field that will have you screaming at your TV when he doesnt see a wide open streaking WR, he will lose a game or two against two crap teams he should have beat by 40. This will have CP screaming for Mahomes in every gameday thread, but its really typical Alex doing Alex Smith things. 10+ wins, a playoff game where we cant score a touchdown, a more elite QB beating Alex. Its clockwork really.

see, thats the thing. how can you bitch about a ten win team, or better, with alex at the helm? (i bitch, but aside from my post game meltdown, i have never said [i don't think] alex should not be the starter this year)

even though we know what is in the wings, alex has led a team to the third best win total over the last three years. for fucks sake. if last years alex team had, fully healthy, houston, charles, hali, erhinger, johnson, etc... we would have more than likely been 14-2.

does alex hurt us in the playoffs, no. does he keep us from those pivotal moments that could propel a championship title run, one could say yes'ish.

but... i digress... i am stoned and getting drunk :D

[Bearcat]

The preseason is over, 2017 regular season has started and 2018 is a year away.

Seems prudent that posters who insist on dwelling on what they wish was instead of what is and will be for the relevant future be monitored scrupulously for trolling.

Obviously, the decisions made in the offseason will be the same decisions made in week 4 or week 10 or week 13, so anyone wanting to see Mahomes should just hibernate for the next 365 days. No way unexpected things will happen, I can't think of one team in the history of the NFL that's had a, uh, let's call it "controversy over the starting quarterback position".

And this forum has always been about the facts, not about daydreaming and speculation, goddamnit.

[Red Dawg]

No start. Let Smith get beat up against our brutal schedule. Besides that what do we do with him? Cutting him is a 7 mil cap hit.

[Baby Lee]

Obviously, the decisions made in the offseason will be the same decisions made in week 4 or week 10 or week 13, so anyone wanting to see Mahomes should just hibernate for the next 365 days. No way unexpected things will happen, I can't think of one team in the history of the NFL that's had a, uh, let's call it "controversy over the starting quarterback position".

And this forum has always been about the facts, not about daydreaming and speculation, goddamnit.

This forum is like a 'Star Wars fan' who's spent the better part of four decades telling anyone and everyone enthused about the movies that 'the entire concept sucks. What we need is black stormtroopers.' And now that Finn is a character, they're bitching that 'I told you!! Now the franchise rocks. But why hasn't he killed Snoke yet!!!'

[Deberg_1990]

I'm enjoying the dilemma of having two legit starting QBs. Some teams don't even have one. Let the kid sit awhile and learn.

[Mile High Mania]

Last week, I said "how long can KC fans wait... will you have the patience?"

You... "ah hells no, start him now."

http://memeguy.com/photos/thumbs/mrw-a-gif-i-submit-gets-upvoted-125438.gif

[farmerchief]

What's going to be insufferable is the small group of assholes who will be hoping for Alex Smith to get hurt so that Reid will be forced to trot Mahomes out there.

You know it's coming.
He better not go down with an injury, that causes him to miss any time. If so, its Wally Pipp all over again.

[ARROW2]

Frankly, he deserves to start NOW!

[RealSNR]

He doesn't need to be a weekly inactive like many thought when he was first drafted. But we definitely shouldn't arbitrarily sit Smith in 2017.

Mahomes has an entire career to "figure things out." Shouldn't we at least get him learning how to protect himself better before we start him?

[HemiEd]

:rolleyes: This is really starting to remind me of the last time we drafted a QB in the first. The pressure is going to get surreal. Yeah, let's go ahead and **** it up this time too.

It's a perfectly set up situation right now, let it play out. Sit Mahomes this year like the plan.

Patience grasshopper. It's hard when we have been through the QB shit stew, but it will be worth the wait.

[notorious]

Last week, I said "how long can KC fans wait... will you have the patience?"

You... "ah hells no, start him now."

http://memeguy.com/photos/thumbs/mrw-a-gif-i-submit-gets-upvoted-125438.gif

We all saw this coming. LMAO

It got a lot worse when he started balling out in the first preseason game.

[notorious]

:rolleyes: This is really starting to remind me of the last time we drafted a QB in the first. The pressure is going to get surreal. Yeah, let's go ahead and **** it up this time too.

It's a perfectly set up situation right now, let it play out. Sit Mahomes this year like the plan.

Patience. It's hard when we have been through the QB shit stew, but it will be worth the wait.

You know you've won the lottery, you just need to wait a little while to collect the money. Don't go out and get a bunch of dumb loans because you lack patience.

[Bob Dole]

What's going to be insufferable is the small group of assholes who will be hoping for Alex Smith to get hurt so that Reid will be forced to trot Mahomes out there.

You know it's coming.

Just like we knew this thread was coming.

[Buckweath]

Mahomes needs to sit.

And people need to realize that he will throw around 15-20 INTs in his first few years in the league but he will still be very good early IMO.

Plus, there is always the chance that Smith gets injured, which would open the door early for Mahomes.

I liked this quote by Louis Reddick: “Trust me, the hype is real with this guy. They just have to keep it under control and stay on plan. When they unveil him, look out.”

[Chiefnj2]

Mahomes is going to struggle his first year whether he sits or not. The starting OL is good enough to protect him. D and special teams are good enough to keep games close and give him good field position. They should start the learning process this year.

[duncan_idaho]

see, thats the thing. how can you bitch about a ten win team, or better, with alex at the helm? (i bitch, but aside from my post game meltdown, i have never said [i don't think] alex should not be the starter this year)



even though we know what is in the wings, alex has led a team to the third best win total over the last three years. for fucks sake. if last years alex team had, fully healthy, houston, charles, hali, erhinger, johnson, etc... we would have more than likely been 14-2.



does alex hurt us in the playoffs, no. does he keep us from those pivotal moments that could propel a championship title run, one could say yes'ish.



but... i digress... i am stoned and getting drunk :D


And DeBerg, Montana, Bono, Grbqc and Gannon led the Chiefs to the second-best record in the NFL in the 90s.

You can bitch about the regular season wins over the past four years because they're meaningless unless you have postseason success to go with it.

Alex Smith absolutely hurts this team in the playoffs. His conservative approach to QBing
Just isn't effective in the playoffs. It limits the ways the Chiefs can win... unless the D and ST produce TOs, a huge field position advantage, and some points, the offensive limitations just murder you.

Alex is the leader of this team. It amazes me how quickly guys jump for the next best thing when you have a playoff caliber qb already. I get it. There's no reason to rush him. This is alex last season, let him finish.


Eric Berry is the leader of this team. Alex Smith is merely a cog.

I'm fine with starting the year with Smith as the QB, but if Mahomes makes as much progress in the next 2-3 months as he did in the last 3, he could be your best bet in December and hopefully the playoffs.

[Chiefshrink]

Yes against their backups with our backups. He wasn't throwing to hill and kelce out there.

He was Texas Tech comfortable out there last night with more discipline and fewer mistakes although there were some as to be expected. To your point, if he is "the guy" which all of us here do agree he IS "the guy" then he should of lit up their 2's and 3's regardless of being protected by our 2's and 3's.:shrug:

[RunKC]

I don't think Mahomes will throw a lot of INT's because Andy will be having him throw a lot of risk adverse passes around the LOS.

But that's what makes Mahomes so intriguing. Having a legit threat to burn you deep at any time will open up the field for Andy to do his WCO LOS plays.

[Buckweath]

Mahomes is going to struggle his first year whether he sits or not. The starting OL is good enough to protect him. D and special teams are good enough to keep games close and give him good field position. They should start the learning process this year.

I disagree. I think he can be as good as Alex Smith, or an average starting QB if you prefer, as early as next year.

[Chiefshrink]

Mahomes is going to struggle his first year whether he sits or not. The starting OL is good enough to protect him. D and special teams are good enough to keep games close and give him good field position. They should start the learning process this year.

especially if we get off to a rocky start the first 6 games at 2-4 or 1-5 because the QB production is not there. Get PMII's rookiness out of the way this year as opposed to next year. I agree with you. I have absolutely no problem not making the playoffs this year if it means getting to PM2 sooner. Like many of you in the beginning, I to thought it very wise to sit him but the more he balls out like this and continually shows the NFL stage is not to big for him and has a very short memory on mistakes and embraces them thus learning from them and then coming back to ball again and has a passion to learn the game and then shows it, I say pass the torch if AS melts down.:thumb:

[dirk digler]

I have always been in the start him now group but I have kind of changed my tune a little bit and I am ok with Alex starting the season even though it is obvious how the season will end.

BUT if we start out 1-5 or this team is sucking at mid season Mahomes should become the starter for the rest of the way. I would rather him learn at the back end of this season and be ready to roll for 2018.

[Chiefshrink]

I disagree. I think he can be as good as Alex Smith, or an average starting QB if you prefer, as early as next year.

try this year IF AS sucks more than usual. The difference being PM will be highly entertaining with always a chance to legitimately win against anyone.;)

[Simply Red]

I can wait, possibly get him a #1 WR next off season.

yes

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I don't think reid is as adamant about him not playing this year as everyone here is.
He made him 2. If he didn't feel confident doing that he would have gone after someone or handed it to someone who has been here years.
2 is one hit from playing. If reid didn't think he was ready he would have stayed 3.
An injury isn't the only reason he may play. Unlike fans reid is not willing to let a season go south.

We have a winner.

[notorious]

I can wait, possibly get him a #1 WR next off season.

yes

With the picks we get from the Alex Smith trade.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

With the picks we get from the Alex Smith trade.

He gonna' look SOOOOOOOOOOO good in green and white, or possibly orange.

(please god let it be orange)

[notorious]

He gonna' look SOOOOOOOOOOO good in anything but red and white.



fyp

[HemiEd]

You know you've won the lottery, you just need to wait a little while to collect the money. Don't go out and get a bunch of dumb loans because you lack patience.

Exactly. We need to be patient but Fan is short for FANATIC.


Did anyone else notice the strained look on Alex's face on that last Mahomes TD with no timeouts? :D

[BossChief]

Hmmm

[Easy 6]

He is making it very, very difficult for me to stay in the 'sit him' camp

So I'll just cop out and say... 'it's Reid's call'

[notorious]

If the offense is as bad as last year, I can see Reid pulling out the stops.


1. Alex won't be worth anything in a trade if the offense struggles

2. Reid wants to win. The Chiefs probably won't keep winning if the defense has to bail the offense out all year like last season

[BigRedChief]

Alex needs to go out and have a great year so they can trade him anyway.Whats the value for a lets be nice, "average" QB with a one year $18 million cap hit? Maybe something like Miami this year, Really desperate team. But, if he plays well this year we win this year and next year in the draft. We will get our 1st back.

[Mecca]

Even though it would be better for the future I think the only way Mahomes plays is if Smith gets hurt or we have the offense costing the team games several weeks in a row.

[Mecca]

Whats the value for a QB with a one year $18 million cap hit? Maybe something like Miami this year, Really desperate team.

If the Jets tanking for 1 doesn't work they could easily be in the market.

[notorious]

He is making it very, very difficult for me to stay in the 'sit him' camp

So I'll just cop out and say... 'it's Reid's call'

This is where I'm at.


Still leaning "patience", though. I trust one of the best coaches in the league to make the right decision.

[Molitoth]

Temper the excitement a bit. This was against the titans backups backups. It's awesome to watch and I'm impressed at how far he's come.

But I think sitting is the way to go


I'm pretty sure Mike Mularkey said he was playing the starters the first half.
I don't know the Titans roster well enough to know if that actually happened.

The Chiefs didn't play any starters that I know of last night.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

fyp

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CExBNruUEAAtkhh.jpg

[BigRedChief]

Mahomes is going to struggle his first year whether he sits or not. The starting OL is good enough to protect him. D and special teams are good enough to keep games close and give him good field position. They should start the learning process this year.Another point of waiting to play our trump card.......

Part of the learning curve is knowing how to avoid taking a full on direct hit from a 360lb that lands on you and drives your shoulder into the ground.

All the best QB's know how to do that. I'm sure its a learned skill.

[BigRedChief]

I'm pretty sure Mike Mularkey said he was playing the starters the first half.
I don't know the Titans roster well enough to know if that actually happened.

The Chiefs didn't play any starters that I know of last night.What NFL plays their starters in the first half of the last pre-season game?

[Black Bob]

JFC what a stupid thread. Let's move Berry to linebacker too.

[Mecca]

JFC what a stupid thread. Let's move Berry to linebacker too.

Well..is it really exciting to watch another Alex Smith season? Everyone knows how that plays. You win your 10 games, make the playoffs, promptly lose. I mean that's real thrilling.

[notorious]

Well..is it really exciting to watch another Alex Smith season? Everyone knows how that plays. You win your 10 games, make the playoffs, promptly lose. I mean that's real thrilling.

I can barely contain my enthusiasm.

[Bearcat]

This forum is like a 'Star Wars fan' who's spent the better part of four decades telling anyone and everyone enthused about the movies that 'the entire concept sucks. What we need is black stormtroopers.' And now that Finn is a character, they're bitching that 'I told you!! Now the franchise rocks. But why hasn't he killed Snoke yet!!!'

Well, that has little to do with finally drafting a QB that might have franchise potential... you'd think everyone at CP gatherings would be on crutches with how much knee-jerking goes on every season.

This is just the next thing to get overly excited about, and of course no one can blame people for being excited. I'd even watch if there was a chance of Mahomes playing. I mean, we've all been on the Chiefs train and have seen the Chiefs be the Chiefs for decades, and we've all been on the Alex train for a few years and have seen Alex be Alex.

And the OP isn't all "he needs to start against the Pats!!"..... he says "playing a handful of games at the end of the season" and "otherwise Pat should start when he's ready" and "we might as well get this kid some time in November".

Nothing overly risky or any crazy ideas about winning the Super Bowl with a rookie QB. :shrug:

[Black Bob]

Well..is it really exciting to watch another Alex Smith season? Everyone knows how that plays. You win your 10 games, make the playoffs, promptly lose. I mean that's real thrilling.

"Dear santa, I want a pony for Christmas."

That shit ain't gonna happen so it's fucking stupid to talk about. He never even played against the other teams ones in the preseason.

[JoeyChuckles]

If Mahomes were to start game 1 through 16 this year, what do you think the Chiefs record would be at the end of the season? Honest opinions.

[RunKC]

"Dear santa, I want a pony for Christmas."

That shit ain't gonna happen so it's ****ing stupid to talk about. He never even played against the other teams ones in the preseason.

Wrong.

Don't spout dumb shit without facts

[notorious]

If Mahomes were to start game 1 through 16 this year, what do you think the Chiefs record would be at the end of the season? Honest opinions.

Honestly, I bet it would be near the same as with Alex, but I want Mahomes to be great long term. Reid will do the right thing.

[notorious]

Mahomes will win games differently than Alex.

Alex games will consist of absolute perfect play by the team against good teams to barely win the game.

Mahomes has the firepower to completely cancel out mistakes the team makes.

[ARROW2]

Honestly, I bet it would be near the same as with Alex, but I want Mahomes to be great long term. Reid will do the right thing.

With more blowouts, more respect, more upside in the playoffs, Mahomes is the next BIG THING in the NFL. YEAH I SAID IT!!!!!

[bigjosh]

If Mahomes were to start game 1 through 16 this year, what do you think the Chiefs record would be at the end of the season? Honest opinions.

at least 9 wins. this defense isnt built to lose football games. if they can carry Alex for 4 years, imagine if we could actually put up more than 10 offensive points per game.

[notorious]

With more blowouts, more respect, more upside in the playoffs, Mahomes is the next BIG THING in the NFL. YEAH I SAID IT!!!!!

I agree.


He has the firepower to obliterate teams.

[Mecca]

Here's the thing, Alex Smith is going to allow you to beat bad teams that make mistakes. Mahomes will make his own mistakes but he has the ability to actually beat good teams because he makes plays.

I think the records would be similar, Smith might win 1 or 2 more regular season games but Mahomes gives you a way better chance of knocking off a playoff team.

[notorious]

Here's the thing, Alex Smith is going to allow you to beat bad teams that make mistakes. Mahomes will make his own mistakes but he has the ability to actually beat good teams because he makes plays.

I think the records would be similar, Smith might win 1 or 2 more regular season games but Mahomes gives you a way better chance of knocking off a playoff team.

And this is comparing a Rookie to a decade+ long veteran.

[sedated]

The thought of Mahomes' cannon arm and Tyreek streaking down field makes me feel funny in my pants.

[ptlyon]

Sir, please pipe down before I come over there and strangle you with my microphone cord

[Marcellus]

Start all the threads you want, argue about it all you want, Mahomes doesn't start a game this year barring injury or really sub par play from Smith.

End of story, not sure why you guys waste your time on this.

[okcchief]

Today I'm fine with Alex Smith being the starter. However, I feel like if Patrick keeps working and picking up the offense Andy is going to get an itchy trigger finger this season. I'm confident Mahomes will start next year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[okcchief]

Here's the thing, Alex Smith is going to allow you to beat bad teams that make mistakes. Mahomes will make his own mistakes but he has the ability to actually beat good teams because he makes plays.

I think the records would be similar, Smith might win 1 or 2 more regular season games but Mahomes gives you a way better chance of knocking off a playoff team.



I don't disagree with this. I just think you let Alex play now, and later on you can flip the switch if you feel the need.


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[Mecca]

My only issue with is I feel like you're wasting a year. The whole the guy needs to sit for a year to be any good has basically been disproven in modern NFL stuff. I'd understand more if this was a terrible team that had nothing.

[Easy 6]

This is where I'm at.


Still leaning "patience", though. I trust one of the best coaches in the league to make the right decision.

One things for sure, it's an awesome conundrum to be in

Another thing for sure, is we WILL celebrate a Super Bowl victory soon

[Chiefnj2]

Start all the threads you want, argue about it all you want, Mahomes doesn't start a game this year barring injury or really sub par play from Smith.

End of story, not sure why you guys waste your time on this.

Kind of like wasting your time watching another season of Smith and Reid having a good regular season record only to make some futile, heart breaking effort in the post season?

[dirk digler]

Kind of like wasting your time watching another season of Smith and Reid having a good regular season record only to make some futile, heart breaking effort in the post season?

Pretty much. Everyone knows how the story ends with AS as the QB in the playoffs.

[Mile High Mania]

We all saw this coming. LMAO

It got a lot worse when he started balling out in the first preseason game.

Just wait until the game ends @ the Patriots and Alex has very unspectacular numbers in a very uninspiring loss to kick off the season. The cameras will have a lot of cuts over to see what Patrick is doing on the bench. There will be quite a bit of conversation on that too if the game is out of hand after halftime.

And, then the talk of flying banners will ensue. It will be glorious.

http://img1.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP21lZGlhLmdpcGh5LmNvbS9tZWRpYS85dzBYdU1TZ2FKazg4L2dpcGh5LmdpZgloglog.gif

[O.city]

Bronco fans are getting nervous

[Marcellus]

Kind of like wasting your time watching another season of Smith and Reid having a good regular season record only to make some futile, heart breaking effort in the post season?

I actually enjoy watching football most of the time

My point is this thread isn't changing a damn thing Andy does and there are about 5 other threads on the same topic.

I woudl love to see Mahomes start some games this year, I would also love to fuck Jennifer Aniston.

[Halfcan]

Bronco fans are getting nervous

ROFL

Yep, what if the Donks had Mahomes-man that would suck thinking about this guy ripping our heart out on 50-yard bombs for the next ten years.

[Couch-Potato]

Just wait until the game ends @ the Patriots and Alex has very unspectacular numbers in a very uninspiring loss to kick off the season. The cameras will have a lot of cuts over to see what Patrick is doing on the bench. There will be quite a bit of conversation on that too if the game is out of hand after halftime.

And, then the talk of flying banners will ensue. It will be glorious.

http://img1.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP21lZGlhLmdpcGh5LmNvbS9tZWRpYS85dzBYdU1TZ2FKazg4L2dpcGh5LmdpZgloglog.gif

For certain. I think we're in the perfect position however. If we keep Alex for the full year, then we have the perfect mentor to Mahomes. If we trade Alex and pick up a 2nd, Mahomes get's a year of hands on experience.

[RealSNR]

Here's why I don't want Mahomes starting in 2017:

He STILL doesn't know how to properly protect himself.

Let's get him to start showing that in practice before we even think about making the switch.

[KCCHIEFS27]

I agree.

Sit him for the next 12 weeks to get better and learn the playbook and then let's roll.

I'm all for starting him in week 12 vs Buffalo. 4 of the last 6 at home and one of the road games is the Jets. Ideal situation IMO

Too soon. Let him wait until the first road playoff game. THEN....you unleash him.

[Mile High Mania]

For certain. I think we're in the perfect position however. If we keep Alex for the full year, then we have the perfect mentor to Mahomes. If we trade Alex and pick up a 2nd, Mahomes get's a year of hands on experience.

From that aspect, yeah... let him sit and learn and use 2018 as the transition or throw him to the wolves now and see if you can get something for Alex. Either is fine... I just think the paitence for letting him sit evaporates after week 4.

[ModSocks]

Meh. I personally think he will make starts this season anyway.

The Chiefs will give Alex Smith enough rope to hang himself with. Once that noose goes around his neck I doubt the Chiefs wait for Alex to hang himself. That'd ruin his trade value. They'll kick the chair and start Mahomes.

[ModSocks]

Start all the threads you want, argue about it all you want, Mahomes doesn't start a game this year barring injury or really sub par play from Smith.

End of story, not sure why you guys waste your time on this.

It won't take sub-par play from Smith. It'll take Smith-par play from Smith.

[Mile High Mania]

Meh. I personally think he will make starts this season anyway.

The Chiefs will give Alex Smith enough rope to hang himself with. Once that noose goes around his neck I doubt the Chiefs wait for Alex to hang himself. That'd ruin his trade value. They'll kick the chair and start Mahomes.

Yes, because benching him and relegating him to having no real value will maintain good trade value. Teams know you'll cut him next year, they'll pick him up on their terms if they want.

[ModSocks]

Just wait until the game ends @ the Patriots and Alex has very unspectacular numbers in a very uninspiring loss to kick off the season. The cameras will have a lot of cuts over to see what Patrick is doing on the bench. There will be quite a bit of conversation on that too if the game is out of hand after halftime.

And, then the talk of flying banners will ensue. It will be glorious.

http://img1.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP21lZGlhLmdpcGh5LmNvbS9tZWRpYS85dzBYdU1TZ2FKazg4L2dpcGh5LmdpZgloglog.gif

When we start losing games 20-17...17-14....and that offense is looking like it needs a kickstart as it does EVERY season, you can bet your ass Reid himself will be looking at Mahomes and that "it" factor.

[Hydrae]

As good and exciting as he has looked, he will be that much better sitting on the bench, running the scout team, etc. The game still needs to slow down a little more for him IMO and as others have mentioned, learn to protect himself a little better. His raw abilities are what we have seen to this point. It has been a lot of fun watching but there are also those plays that you scratch your head on. Those will diminish with experience and a fuller understanding of the offense.

[ModSocks]

Yes, because benching him and relegating him to having no real value will maintain good trade value. Teams know you'll cut him next year, they'll pick him up on their terms if they want.

And then enter a F/A bidding war in the process. A team will trade for Smith, benched or not.

The 18Mill for a season is chump change for a starting NFL QB. Then that team will have a season to determine if he's worthy of an extension.

[jaa1025]

If Mahomes were to start game 1 through 16 this year, what do you think the Chiefs record would be at the end of the season? Honest opinions.

10+ wins would be the floor barring key injuries to the team. That's not necessarily because I think Mahomes will be great his rookie season (I think he'd have better numbers than Alex Smith) but because Reid has dumbed down his offense to fit Alex Smith's arm and tendencies and most NFL QB's can be as successful in this offense as he has been.

I do thing a Mahomes led Chiefs team, if he starts the entire season, would be better in the playoffs than an Alex Smth led Chiefs team.

[ModSocks]

As good and exciting as he has looked, he will be that much better sitting on the bench, running the scout team, etc. The game still needs to slow down a little more for him IMO and as others have mentioned, learn to protect himself a little better. His raw abilities are what we have seen to this point. It has been a lot of fun watching but there are also those plays that you scratch your head on. Those will diminish with experience and a fuller understanding of the offense.

The best way to get acclimated to game speed is to....well....play the game.

I have no issue if he sits a year or not. No matter what, he'll be a better QB next season and will likely have put any pocket issues aside.

But if your concern is game speed, or acclimation to the pocket...well those things are best fixed by actually practicing them in live situations. You can't simulate game speed. You can't simulate a real, collapsing pocket.

There's a big difference between, "Ok Mahomes here's what to do. Now go out and watch Alex do it" and, "Ok Mahomes here's what to do. Now go out and actually execute it".

I can sit back and watch someone shoot a basketball a million times. I won't get better till i actually get my ass on the court and shoot for myself and take what i've watched and attempt to apply it.

It's no different for Mahomes regarding game speed and pocket presence.

[Halfcan]

10+ wins would be the floor barring key injuries to the team. That's not necessarily because I think Mahomes will be great his rookie season (I think he'd have better numbers than Alex Smith) but because Reid has dumbed down his offense to fit Alex Smith's arm and tendencies and most NFL QB's can be as successful in this offense as he has been.

I do thing a Mahomes led Chiefs team, if he starts the entire season, would be better in the playoffs than an Alex Smth led Chiefs team.

Fair assessment. Mahomes still has a steep learning curve ahead of him and is way behind Alex when it comes to experience.

One thing that is indisputable- Mahomes gives the team a shot of adrenaline. Alex always comes out flat, plays flat, no emotion and does not pump up his teammates in Any way. That is probably his biggest playoff flaw.

[Dave Lane]

I'm tired of wasting time on captain check down. First hangnail Alex gets punt him.

[Dave Lane]

Fair assessment. Mahomes still has a steep learning curve ahead of him and is way behind Alex when it comes to experience.

One thing that is indisputable- Mahomes gives the team a shot of adrenaline. Alex always comes out flat, plays flat, no emotion and does not pump up his teammates in Any way. That is probably his biggest playoff flaw.

Here's a better assessment, Alex is a pile of dog shit.

[Dave Lane]

It won't take sub-par play from Smith. It'll take Smith-par play from Smith.

Detox with the 80 yard bomb for a TD.

[Rasputin]

My only issue with is I feel like you're wasting a year. The whole the guy needs to sit for a year to be any good has basically been disproven in modern NFL stuff. I'd understand more if this was a terrible team that had nothing.

This for sure.

I think sooner Patrick Mahomes II hits the field sooner we get onto building a team of champions.

Any mistakes he makes this year he would likely make next year for lack of experience. He can't get experience if he doesn't play.

[Valiant]

While I love the emergence of mahomes. I would only have him see spot drives unless there is an injury or Alex is really ineffective. Our best win win, Alex doing well and trading him next year.

[Kiimo]

God I hate this.

Have some patience ffs. Mahomes does not need to start until 2018. I'm the biggest Mahomes supporter in the world but it's dumb to sacrifice a playoff season because you aren't patient.

The Chiefs would absolutely not make the playoffs with Mahomes starting.

[KINGPIN CHIEFS FAN]

As good and exciting as he has looked, he will be that much better sitting on the bench, running the scout team, etc. The game still needs to slow down a little more for him IMO and as others have mentioned, learn to protect himself a little better. His raw abilities are what we have seen to this point. It has been a lot of fun watching but there are also those plays that you scratch your head on. Those will diminish with experience and a fuller understanding of the offense.

Why would you drive your 12 year old minivan when you have a new Ferrari sitting in the garage? Mahomes isn't going to learn how to protect himself by running the scout team. That's a part of his game that we're just going to have to live with and hope that he can avoid the big hits. After 12 years Alex still has a lot of plays that make me scratch my head. Every quarterback has them, they don't disappear over a career. I think that after Andy fills up on his Thanksgiving dinner(s) he will seriously look at getting Patrick some playing time so he will be ready for the playoffs. Imagine having a fresh slightly used Patrick Mahomes to plug in come playoff time.

[KINGPIN CHIEFS FAN]

God I hate this.

Have some patience ffs. Mahomes does not need to start until 2018. I'm the biggest Mahomes supporter in the world but it's dumb to sacrifice a playoff season because you aren't patient.

The Chiefs would absolutely not make the playoffs with Mahomes starting.

And how far will we go in the playoffs with Alex? What good does it do to make the playoffs if you have the Marty Schottenheimer of quarterbacks running your offense? I'd rather miss the playoffs with Mahomes then make the playoffs with Alex!

[Kiimo]

You'd rather miss the playoffs?

Ok

[Rasputin]

Why would we even miss the playoffs with Mahomes if he throws touchdowns & we have a ball Hawking defense that sounds pretty darn good to me for recipe for success.

[Kiimo]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I can barely contain my enthusiasm.

This.

And Alex should probably thank the god of his choosing that preseason lasts only 4 games.

Anything beyond that, and no head coach alive is stopping the momentum.

[Rasputin]

I believe he turns twenty two this month and basically same age Dan Marino started his rookie year & Dan Marino compared him to himself but with wheels.

[Kiimo]

yeah how did that turn out for marino?

I'm not really serious but maybe at least give an example of a superbowl winner

[Rasputin]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

How do you know he will lose games? Did Prescott lose games for the Cowboys last year?

Quit being so cowardly 🦁

[Iczer]

He's a rookie and will lose games.



Yet you could say Smith won't win you games...


Take for example, the 2 minute drill at the end of the half. Smith would have probably gotten KC close enough for a long field goal without taking chances.


I'm not advocating starting Mahomes though, I say let Smith start. If his play starts to go down, then let Reid make a decision.



I feel like having a QB like Mahomes is going to change this team so dramatically that some don't even realize. Our offense is so basic that defenses don't have to cover the whole field. They know the game plan every game, and I'm sure 95% of the fans can call the plays before they're ran. Mahomes will shatter that and force defenses to be aware, opening so much more up.

[Kiimo]

Dudes I'm not a Smith supporter but saying he doesn't win games...

That's like the ONLY thing he does

[Rasputin]

yeah how did that turn out for marino?

I'm not really serious but maybe at least give an example of a superbowl winner

This is a great team to start out with. Patrick can outplay Alex on the field. He can keep drives alive like Been Rothlessburger who won a Super Bowl his second year.

[The Franchise]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

What games that Smith won last year do you think that Mahomes can't?

Now go back and look at the games that Smith lost last year and tell me if Mahomes couldn't win those?

Does anyone realistically think that Mahomes couldn't put up the same numbers that Smith did last year? Would we have more INTs....possibly. Would we have more TDs? Most definitely.

[Halfcan]

God I hate this.

Have some patience ffs. Mahomes does not need to start until 2018. I'm the biggest Mahomes supporter in the world but it's dumb to sacrifice a playoff season because you aren't patient.

The Chiefs would absolutely not make the playoffs with Mahomes starting.

Yes, Mahomes will make mistakes and maybe even cost us a game but he also brings a shot of adrenaline to the team that Alex has NEVER brought. Mahomes was the best QB during the preseason. I think he gives us at least an equal chance to make the playoffs as Alex.

It is redundant to keep guessing because Andy has made the choice- let's hope its the right one.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

Please tell me what exactly another short-lived trip to the NFL playoffs accomplishes for the Chiefs besides giving dumbasses with no patience for QB development another pointless notch in the "look at me"-belt?


Because, you DO realize that we have reached the point where bench-sitting is absolutely pointless for Patrick's development, yes?

You DO realize that, yes?

Yes.

NO ONE on all of God's earth, Reid and staff included, realistically believed that Mahomes was going to advance at the light speed he has demonstrated since rookie OTA's.
The only thing he has failed at this off season( if you can even call it that ), is not having an opportunity to run with the ones to demonstrate once and for all that he is ready to lead this franchise going forward.

Unless Smith hits the MRI followed by a goodbye speech to the league, this season is an absolute waste for Mahomes, the Chiefs, and the fans who have waited for this day far, FAR too long.

Good day, sir.

























































I SAID GOOD DAY!

[Rasputin]

What games that Smith won last year do you think that Mahomes can't?

Now go back and look at the games that Smith lost last year and tell me if Mahomes couldn't win those?

Does anyone realistically think that Mahomes couldn't put up the same numbers that Smith did last year? Would we have more INTs....possibly. Would we have more TDs? Most definitely.

I'm not buying he would throw many int. He didn't throw many in college and he average 60 attempts a game and he didn't throw many at TC and although close but has zero in preseason. What more can the kid prove?

[Bowser]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ssta0_4GkRA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[saphojunkie]

yeah how did that turn out for marino?

I'm not really serious but maybe at least give an example of a superbowl winner

Ben Roethlisberger went to the AFC championship as a rookie and then won the super bowl the next year.

[Iczer]

Dudes I'm not a Smith supporter but saying he doesn't win games...

That's like the ONLY thing he does


QB wins is such a horrible stat. What games did Alex single handily take over and win? Was it his scintillating 15 TD throws? Or was it his career low 134 rushing yards last year, that made him such so dangerous with his ability to scramble.

If all you're going to do is ask your QB to make the safe throws and try not to lose a game, rely on your defense to win the turnover battle. Then Smith is your man.

Mahomes will not be that way, I look forward to when he starts.

[jaa1025]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

Alex Smith is a vet and lost 2 games last year because of horrible interceptions. Mr. Game Manager-doesn't-make-mistakes made horrible mistakes during his career here. The difference between Smith's and Mahomes mistakes is that Mahomes will go out and win games. Alex Smith has never and will never be able to put his team on his shoulder.

[Kiimo]

He would absolutely throw interceptions. We have seen him throw several that was saved by the booth. Peyton Freaking Manning, maybe the most cerebral QB of all time threw 28 interceptions starting his rookie year.

I get that we're all excited but stop being intellectually dishonest about this. We were all excited to have him sit a year and learn. Now we've seen the arm talent we expected to see and you're all ready to sacrifice the playoffs to see it sooner. Well playoffs don't come every year and frankly I want to enjoy every postseason I can.

[saphojunkie]

Also, Kiimo you're thinking of this like, Mahomes starting this year means him starting week one. I would love to see him start week 10. We'll be coming off a bye, have a bunch of home games left, and it would give him almost an entire half season under his belt (seven more games and potential playoff game).

Sitting and learning is great, but the best way to learn is by doing. Reid started McNabb in week nine, and I would imagine that's really all the time you need to know the offense and understand what's going on.

Also, I think interceptions are wildly overrated. I'd rather have a QB who throws three TD and two INT than a QB who throws 1TD and 0 INT (on the regular). The math supports that, as well.

[saphojunkie]

He would absolutely throw interceptions. We have seen him throw several that was saved by the booth. Peyton Freaking Manning, maybe the most cerebral QB of all time threw 28 interceptions starting his rookie year.

I get that we're all excited but stop being intellectually dishonest about this. We were all excited to have him sit a year and learn. Now we've seen the arm talent we expected to see and you're all ready to sacrifice the playoffs to see it sooner. Well playoffs don't come every year and frankly I want to enjoy every postseason I can.

Dude, why are you categorically saying we miss the playoffs if he starts? Because I don't think Alex Smith has played 16 games a single time since coming to KC. The odds are... Mahomes is starting at least one game this year and likely more.

[The Franchise]

He would absolutely throw interceptions. We have seen him throw several that was saved by the booth. Peyton Freaking Manning, maybe the most cerebral QB of all time threw 28 interceptions starting his rookie year.

I get that we're all excited but stop being intellectually dishonest about this. We were all excited to have him sit a year and learn. Now we've seen the arm talent we expected to see and you're all ready to sacrifice the playoffs to see it sooner. Well playoffs don't come every year and frankly I want to enjoy every postseason I can.

Saved by the booth? You mean proven to not be an INT.....right? Fucking stupid.

[Kiimo]

I'm categorically saying we miss the playoffs if he starts. Signing my name to it.

I just think everyone is way too caught up in sucking each others' dicks about this whole thing. Reid is not starting a rookie over his QB who keeps winning games. Period.

And he shouldn't.

[RunKC]

He would absolutely throw interceptions. We have seen him throw several that was saved by the booth. Peyton Freaking Manning, maybe the most cerebral QB of all time threw 30 interceptions starting his rookie year.

I get that we're all excited but stop being intellectually dishonest about this. We were all excited to have him sit a year and learn. Now we've seen the arm talent we expected to see and you're all ready to sacrifice the playoffs to see it sooner. Well playoffs don't come every year and frankly I want to enjoy every postseason I can.

Andy would change many things to prevent INT's.

You're forgetting that Andy is one of the best coaches at scheming. Why do to think Alex doesn't throw many picks? It's because Andy purposely designs screens and quick safe passes that are risk averse.
Once Alex throws a pick, Andy goes into ultra safe conservative mode.

He'd do the same thing with Pat.

[Kiimo]

Saved by the booth? You mean proven to not be an INT.....right? ****ing stupid.

Do you not understand what I mean or something? Do you not get that those throws were bad and should be interceptions? Or do you think that the fact that they had a foot out of bounds should be the part of equation that we should bet on going forward?

[duncan_idaho]

He would absolutely throw interceptions. We have seen him throw several that was saved by the booth. Peyton Freaking Manning, maybe the most cerebral QB of all time threw 28 interceptions starting his rookie year.

I get that we're all excited but stop being intellectually dishonest about this. We were all excited to have him sit a year and learn. Now we've seen the arm talent we expected to see and you're all ready to sacrifice the playoffs to see it sooner. Well playoffs don't come every year and frankly I want to enjoy every postseason I can.


The last Chiefs postseason I enjoyed was in 1993.

What enjoyment did you get out of hosting a playoff game and getting bounced last fall?

What enjoyment did you get from watching the defense collapse in 2014? Or from watching the Patriots methodically dominate a game KC never had a chance to win?

I'm not a proponent of starting Mahomes week 1, but agree with those who think he may be the best option by Week 10, especially if he progresses at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kiimo]

Yeah I'd rather HAVE a post season game to plan around, even if we lose, than not go to one at all.

The postseason when you aren't playing is unwatchable.

[Ming the Merciless]

The Chiefs would absolutely not make the playoffs with Mahomes starting.

this is simply false

alex smith is solely responsible for us winning the 9 or 10 games necessary to make it to the wild card / div round...

besides....don't you want to win someday?

this isnt about this season...this is about building for a better future

[BryanBusby]

One and done really puts the OOMPH in January football

[The Franchise]

Do you not understand what I mean or something? Do you not get that those throws were bad and should be interceptions? Or do you think that the fact that they had a foot out of bounds should be the part of equation that we should bet on going forward?

The INT that was overturned because the defensive player was out of bounds hit his target in the fucking hands. It wasn't an errant throw or a bad decision.

[The Franchise]

Yeah I'd rather HAVE a post season game to plan around, even if we lose, than not go to one at all.

The postseason when you aren't playing is unwatchable.

https://m.popkey.co/4340ce/KMzYj.gif

[Ming the Merciless]

Yeah I'd rather HAVE a post season game to plan around, even if we lose, than not go to one at all.

The postseason when you aren't playing is unwatchable.

so you would rather watch us lose in the playoffs with smith than watch us lose with mahomes and have him learn invaluable lessons?

i respect your point of view but ...dont act like the other point of view is stupid or unreasonable

[Pitt Gorilla]

The last Chiefs postseason I enjoyed was in 1993.

What enjoyment did you get out of hosting a playoff game and getting bounced last fall?

What enjoyment did you get from watching the defense collapse in 2014? Or from watching the Patriots methodically dominate a game KC never had a chance to win?

I'm not a proponent of starting Mahomes week 1, but agree with those who think he may be the best option by Week 10, especially if he progresses at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis is where I am; alex should start the season, but Mahomes should keep his helmet close.

[Kiimo]

When this happened we all were ready to enjoy this last season of Alex Smith making the playoffs in a year where the situation is ripe to actually do some damage.

Mahomes has looked great but I'm not ready to sacrifice that in order to see him sooner. That's it. I don't think we'd make the playoffs with Mahomes and it's kind of useless to try and prove our pure speculation on that one. I think he'll throw picks galore and also look great and we'd ultimately lose.

I get that people hate Smith and hated that Steelers game, I'm right there with you. But yeah throwing away the season when we have a unique situation right now is failing to take advantage of our unique situation. I'm happy that Reid knows better than us what the best course of action is.

[Rasputin]

How can Patrick Mahomes II do as good as Alex Smith 15 touchdown season last year :rolleyes:

[Mile High Mania]

How can Patrick Mahomes II do as good as Alex Smith 15 touchdown season last year :rolleyes:

Well. "... do as well..."

[duncan_idaho]

When this happened we all were ready to enjoy this last season of Alex Smith making the playoffs in a year where the situation is ripe to actually do some damage.

Mahomes has looked great but I'm not ready to sacrifice that in order to see him sooner. That's it. I don't think we'd make the playoffs with Mahomes and it's kind of useless to try and prove our pure speculation on that one. I think he'll throw picks galore and also look great and we'd ultimately lose.

I get that people hate Smith and hated that Steelers game, I'm right there with you. But yeah throwing away the season when we have a unique situation right now is failing to take advantage of our unique situation. I'm happy that Reid knows better than us what the best course of action is.


Who is going to enjoy Smith's last season other than the retard ball washers who followed him to ChiefsPlanet?

Dude, for a good portion of us here, we've been waiting for the moment Smith is gone from the second he was acquired. Many have jumped into that category since, but it's pretty goddamn obvious the guy limits the team's ability to advance in the playoffs too much for it to be overcome without an incredible streak of luck.

It's not that we're ready to throw this season away; it's that we chalked up all season's with Alex Smith as QB1 as losses from the beginning.


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[Kiimo]

https://media.giphy.com/media/mCd10WPg4cQeI/giphy.gif

[Bowser]

The last Chiefs postseason I enjoyed was in 1993.

What enjoyment did you get out of hosting a playoff game and getting bounced last fall?

What enjoyment did you get from watching the defense collapse in 2014? Or from watching the Patriots methodically dominate a game KC never had a chance to win?

I'm not a proponent of starting Mahomes week 1, but agree with those who think he may be the best option by Week 10, especially if he progresses at the same rate.


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[Kiimo]

So when Alex starts this year, which he is doing, are you telling me you aren't going to enjoy this Chiefs season?

Really? Less than a week from opening day you've written off the season regardless of outcome because Alex Smith is the QB?

[duncan_idaho]

So when Alex starts this year, which he is doing, are you telling me you aren't going to enjoy this Chiefs season?

Really? Less than a week from opening day you've written off the season regardless of outcome because Alex Smith is the QB?


Correct.

Same as I did in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016.

I will watch games as convenient and likely do multiple chores during them.

I will have no excitement or emotion invested in the season. I will chuckle and shake my head when the season comes to a frustrating close due mostly to his shortcomings.

That all changes if Mahomes replaces him, but the script is written with Alex Smith, barring a streak of incredible luck during the playoffs.

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[saphojunkie]

What's really strange about this is that Kiimosabi is literally the most excited person I know about Mahomes. Weird morning.

Starting Mahomes does NOT mean we don't go to the playoffs, dude. Tons and tons of rookie QBs go to the playoffs.

Mark Sanchez went to the AFC championship his rookie year.

Ben Roethlisberger went to the AFC championship his rookie year. He won the Super Bowl the next year.

Russel Wilson led the Seahawks to the playoffs his rookie year. He won the Super Bowl the following year.

There is NO REASON Mahomes can't do that. We have a good defense. We have one of the best offensive minds in the league. We have one of the best head coaches in the league.

[chiefzilla1501]

I would usually agree if we're talking about a polished qb who can't learn much from the bench. But here we have a qb who can learn a ton. Footwork. Taking snaps under center. Learning a pro style offense.

The downside to starting him too soon? Alexsexuals who will put an unreasonable amount of pressure on him, and there are more than we realize outside the cp bubble. More importantly, mahomes is a tough gutsy competitor... I love that about him, but I also think without the right coaching, it'll get him killed. Keep coaching him up to make quicker decisions and to learn little things like throwing the ball away. The less he puts himself in a position to get destroyed the better chance we have to keep him healthy for the long haul.

I have no problem whatsoever keeping him on the bench this year. Next year is a different story.

[Discuss Thrower]

Think you'll find a lot of Bengals, Buccaneers, Falcons, Panthers, Raiders or Titans fans (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=fm8PB) that still think their guy needed to sit for a rookie year?

[saphojunkie]

So when Alex starts this year, which he is doing, are you telling me you aren't going to enjoy this Chiefs season?

Really? Less than a week from opening day you've written off the season regardless of outcome because Alex Smith is the QB?

SMITH DOESN'T HAVE TO START 16 GAMES.

MAHOMES DOESN'T HAVE TO START 16 GAMES.

Why are you playing this binary scenario out, where EITHER Smith starts this season OR Mahomes does? There is a world where Mahomes takes over mid-season because - really consider this - he has actually ascended to be the better player. Because Andy Reid honestly believes Mahomes gives us our best chance to win.

If that happens, you're going to say he's wrong? I don't understand your hard-line stance on this.

[Kiimo]

Nah I'm taking a hard line stance because I hate how CP likes to shout down anybody who doesn't support Alex Smith being drawn and quartered because fuck you all I will say what I want. Alex is starting. If Reid changes that down the line welp I'll have to figure out at the time if I agree. I think the likeliest of scenarios is Alex gets hurt and never starts again rather than Reid just making that decision.


Correct.

Same as I did in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016.

I will watch games as convenient and likely do multiple chores during them.

I will have no excitement or emotion invested in the season. I will chuckle and shake my head when the season comes to a frustrating close due mostly to his shortcomings.

That all changes if Mahomes replaces him, but the script is written with Alex Smith, barring a streak of incredible luck during the playoffs.

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I'm absolutely serious when I say this. I sincerely feel bad for you. This is sad.

[jettio]

Mahomes needs to be ready to win a game or games if Alex gets hurt.

Regular season is going to be 1's vs. 1's and the defenses will be more complicated.

I think the current plan to start Alex is the right plan. Alex looks betters and challenges down field more this camp and preseason. One reason seems to be the motivation that the Chiefs drafted Mahomes as QBOTF to improve the downfield passing offense.

[WhiteWhale]

I can't be the only one kinda hoping Alex Smith gets Tommy Maddox'd

[duncan_idaho]

Nah I'm taking a hard line stance because I hate how CP likes to shout down anybody who doesn't support Alex Smith being drawn and quartered because fuck you all I will say what I want. Alex is starting. If Reid changes that down the line welp I'll have to figure out at the time if I agree. I think the likeliest of scenarios is Alex gets hurt and never starts again rather than Reid just making that decision.













I'm absolutely serious when I say this. I sincerely feel bad for you. This is sad.


You know what I think is sad? Expecting any real playoff success or having a real shot to win a SB from an Alex Smith-led team.

It's like Charlie Brown running to kick the ball. Lucy is going to yank it away. There's no point in being surprised.

This team stopped being worth my emotional investment when it quintupled? Sextupled? Octupled? Down on trying to win with another team's garbage at QB, a guy whose primary skill/goal was to just not screw up.


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[Mile High Mania]

What's really strange about this is that Kiimosabi is literally the most excited person I know about Mahomes. Weird morning.

Starting Mahomes does NOT mean we don't go to the playoffs, dude. Tons and tons of rookie QBs go to the playoffs.

Mark Sanchez went to the AFC championship his rookie year.

Ben Roethlisberger went to the AFC championship his rookie year. He won the Super Bowl the next year.

Russel Wilson led the Seahawks to the playoffs his rookie year. He won the Super Bowl the following year.

There is NO REASON Mahomes can't do that. We have a good defense. We have one of the best offensive minds in the league. We have one of the best head coaches in the league.

I say do it... and not because I want to be an ass or that I think he will be a failure. I liked watching some of those recent highlights and the "QB fan" in me wants to see good QB play, so I'm all for it. Let the kid learn. What's more painful... watching a team limp through a season with 10 or wins and Alex or possibly do a little worse, maybe the same with the rookie.

Go for it...

https://media.giphy.com/media/Wq6DnHvHchrTG/giphy.gif

[Mile High Mania]

You know what I think is sad? Expecting any real playoff success or having a real shot to win a SB from an Alex Smith-led team.

It's like Charlie Brown running to kick the ball. Lucy is going to yank it away. There's no point in being surprised.

This team stopped being worth my emotional investment when it quintupled? Sextupled? Octupled? Down on trying to win with another team's garbage at QB, a guy whose primary skill/goal was to just not screw up.


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https://media.tenor.com/images/547931dce5ae02e83f58146f07509b0b/tenor.gif

[Kiimo]

You know what I think is sad? Expecting any real playoff success or having a real shot to win a SB from an Alex Smith-led team.

It's like Charlie Brown running to kick the ball. Lucy is going to yank it away. There's no point in being surprised.

This team stopped being worth my emotional investment when it quintupled? Sextupled? Octupled? Down on trying to win with another team's garbage at QB, a guy whose primary skill/goal was to just not screw up.


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There are 54 players on this roster other than Alex Smith who you don't care how their season plays out because of your hatred for one player. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it doesn't seem very fun. Sports are for fun. Hating a player so much that you can't have fun watching sports means you should take a giant pull from a bong, sit back and try to enjoy meatheads running full speed at each other for the spectacle it is.

[ChiefsCountry]

I can't be the only one kinda hoping Alex Smith gets Tommy Maddox'd

Bledsoed or Trent Greened would work as well.

[chiefzilla1501]

SMITH DOESN'T HAVE TO START 16 GAMES.

MAHOMES DOESN'T HAVE TO START 16 GAMES.

Why are you playing this binary scenario out, where EITHER Smith starts this season OR Mahomes does? There is a world where Mahomes takes over mid-season because - really consider this - he has actually ascended to be the better player. Because Andy Reid honestly believes Mahomes gives us our best chance to win.

If that happens, you're going to say he's wrong? I don't understand your hard-line stance on this.

I don't think Reid is afraid to give Alex the hook. But I see him as loyal enough that he wouldn't want to hook him mid-season. Even if he gets injured and Mahomes outshines him. I think it's Mahomes' job to lose in 2018. But I just don't see Reid doing this to Alex Smith. If Alex Smith starts the season, I find it hard to believe that, barring injury, he doesn't also close the season.

[BryanBusby]

If he felt Mahomes can move the Offense and Alex can't, he won't hesitate to make the move.

Ask Kevin Kolb LMAO

[Kiimo]

Kevin Kolb didn't have the pedigree Smith does to be honest.

[dirk digler]

I would usually agree if we're talking about a polished qb who can't learn much from the bench. But here we have a qb who can learn a ton. Footwork. Taking snaps under center. Learning a pro style offense.

The downside to starting him too soon? Alexsexuals who will put an unreasonable amount of pressure on him, and there are more than we realize outside the cp bubble. More importantly, mahomes is a tough gutsy competitor... I love that about him, but I also think without the right coaching, it'll get him killed. Keep coaching him up to make quicker decisions and to learn little things like throwing the ball away. The less he puts himself in a position to get destroyed the better chance we have to keep him healthy for the long haul.

I have no problem whatsoever keeping him on the bench this year. Next year is a different story.

You make a good point. Most of the fans that attend Chief games are the True Fan types that love Cassel, Alex and a bunch of fatties. I could see them booing Mahomes and wanting Alex to play if PM struggles.

I would still like to see him start come Week 10 if the Chiefs are sucking especially on offense.

[Kiimo]

I can agree with it where late in the season Mahomes starts because there's a reason to start him.

I just can't say f-it let's start him now just cuz me wants it!

[duncan_idaho]

There are 54 players on this roster other than Alex Smith who you don't care how their season plays out because of your hatred for one player. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it doesn't seem very fun. Sports are for fun. Hating a player so much that you can't have fun watching sports means you should take a giant pull from a bong, sit back and try to enjoy meatheads running full speed at each other for the spectacle it is.


I don't care how the season plays out because I know the 99 percent outcome, and there's no logical reason to hope for something else.

My lack of emotional investment has nothing to do with hatred of Alex Smith. I actually think he's a pretty swell human being. He's just an incredibly mediocre and limiting QB.

My emotional divestiture from the Chiefs has everything to do with dispassionate evaluation of what I'm getting back from it. I used up all my ability to be excited about regular season accomplishments from 1990-2010.

Divisional championships, playoff appearances... just glorified participation trophies in the NFL.

There's only one Chiefs player I hate, and it isn't Alex Smith.


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[Ming the Merciless]

I'm absolutely serious when I say this. I sincerely feel bad for you. This is sad.

why is this sad when you basically showed your ass saying you will feel sad if they start mahomes?

its not up to you..it was up to the chiefs

and guess what , clown?

the future cant be stopped

[Ming the Merciless]

When this happened we all were ready to enjoy this last season with alex

enjoy?

bahahahahahaha

[WhiteWhale]

Bledsoed or Trent Greened would work as well.

Yeah, but I'm not going to put Alex in the same category as those two guys. Nobody viewed Brady or Warner as 'the future' until they had gone out on Sundays and got it done.

They were like... freak accidents. "Oh, shit, our starter went down! Who are our back ups? We're doomed! Who the fuck is Tom Brady? Kurt Warner? The arena league guy?!"

*back up outperforms starting QB"

"Oh shit, well, never mind"

Alex is more like a John Kitna playing in front of Palmer. Or Maddox playing in front of Big Ben. He's a lame duck QB, and everyone knows it. Including Alex.

[Ming the Merciless]

I just can't say f-it let's start him now just cuz me wants it!

but youve been saying/crying that same thing, just about alex, in this butthurt thread for like 5 pages now

[Kiimo]

lmao seriously? Don't lump me in with some retard you argued with in the past I didn't say I'd be sad if they started Mahomes. I'm Mahomo all the freakin way. I just think it is tactically wiser not to start him now.

[Ming the Merciless]

Alex is more like a John Kitna playing in front of Palmer.

or alex smith in front of colin kapernick

[Ming the Merciless]

lmao seriously? Don't lump me in with some retard you argued with in the past I didn't say I'd be sad if they started Mahomes. I'm Mahomo all the freakin way. I just think it is tactically wiser not to start him now.

no , do not try and change what you said

I believe what you said was anyone who disagreed with you was a tool...or a video game dork or soemthing like that

now you are back-peddling faster than a fat girl headed off a cliff

[duncan_idaho]

or alex smith in front of colin kapernick


Or Alex Smith in front of whatever QB he'll be quickly dumped for in his next location.


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[Kiimo]

no , do not try and change what you said

I believe what you said was anyone who disagreed with you was a tool...or a video game dork or soemthing like that

now you are back-peddling faster than a fat girl headed off a cliff

Excellent read of the situation man. I said that anyone who disagreed with me was a tool? I brought up video games? I'm back peddling?

False man you have me confused. I disagree Mahomes should be starting. I'm not pulling off that. And I never said any of that other crap.

[Ming the Merciless]

False man you have me confused. I disagree Mahomes should be starting. I'm not pulling off that. And I never said any of that other crap.

you said something stupid

I think maybe you said there was no way we could make the playoffs if Mahomes started...

pure drivel

[Kiimo]

Well this got exhausting quick.

Not sure what you said but it was pure drivel.

[Ming the Merciless]

Well this got exhausting quick.

Not sure what you said but it was pure drivel.

If you would have just said 'I disagree with the tactical decision to start Mahomes now..' i would agree with you...or at least respect that position...

Trying to make the claim that if Mahomes starts games this year we simply have zero chance to make the playoffs is where you cross the line from respectable opinion to stupidity IMO.

We don't even really lose all that much by starting him...but thats not even the point...We could start him on the back half of the season ....theres many many scenarios where we could make the playoffs still, while starting mahomes.

Hell I bet we could make the playoffs still if we started Mahomes against the pats....

ALl that being said...I think what you said LATER ON about being more tactical to start smith now is probably correct.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

When this happened we all were ready to enjoy this last season of Alex Smith making the playoffs in a year where the situation is ripe to actually do some damage.



No we weren't.

Where in god's name did you get THIS completely false take? And also, there is no "enjoyment" in an Alex Smith-led season. I mean, that's just HILARIOUSLY false. No one was thinking that. NO ONE.
Maybe his retarded CP pep squad, but certainly no one who actually LOVES football.
Smith has had opportunity after opportunity to "make some noise" and prove his detractors false. Instead, he just gets worse and worse, becoming more timid, scared, and less likely to use his only good weapon; his legs.

Reid may start Smith, but Smith's time is over.

The first time Smith hits the bench is the last time he will see the field.

[KINGPIN CHIEFS FAN]

Well this got exhausting quick.

Not sure what you said but it was pure drivel.

I just don't understand why you're so sure we can't make the playoffs with Mahomes as the quarterback. Obviously you haven't been watching his performances when he's in the game. Anybody who says they are a big supporter of him should be able to see that he has the talent to take us to the playoffs and beyond! Especially with the teammates that he has helping him.

[Kiimo]

I kind of want to respond to that with a whole "preseason defense" take peppered with "gameplan" comments but honestly I've posted in here too much.

[Ming the Merciless]

I kind of want to respond to that with a whole "preseason defense"

so let me get this straight...he doesnt get any credit from you because he was facing a preseason DEFENSE that was 2nd/3rd string? right?

Even though he and all those playing on offense were ALSO 2nd/3rd stringers....

do you understand the logical failure of this argument?

[Kiimo]

I saw a ton of things to be excited about. I think he's going to be a top 3 quarterback in the league.

I also think NFL defenses game planning for a rook can take advantage of his youth decisions and to assume he'll continue to perform at the level he did preseason is a huge gamble.

I saw a guy who will be a star. Somebody on twitter tried to play it off like Robinson was the star and elevated Mahomes. No, it's the other way around. But you don't just go point A to point B where point B is taking us to the playoffs. It's way more complicated than that. A lot of people this morning are excited and also saying those are picks against good corners.

Did I say he doesn't get credit? He gets a ton of credit. I've got a raging hard-on for Mahomes. But we don't HAVE to start him which is good. We have a unique situation here. Now maybe you can't enjoy a season with Alex Smith at the helm. I feel bad for you, I can. I enjoyed last season. I'll see you next year I guess.

[ARROW2]

No we weren't.

Where in god's name did you get THIS completely false take? And also, there is no "enjoyment" in an Alex Smith-led season. I mean, that's just HILARIOUSLY false. No one was thinking that. NO ONE.
Maybe his retarded CP pep squad, but certainly no one who actually LOVES football.
Smith has had opportunity after opportunity to "make some noise" and prove his detractors false. Instead, he just gets worse and worse, becoming more timid, scared, and less likely to use his only good weapon; his legs.

Reid may start Smith, but Smith's time is over.

The first time Smith hits the bench is the last time he will see the field.






CAN'T FUCKING WAIT!!!!!!

[BigCatDaddy]

He's a rookie and will lose games.

I can't even begin to understand wanting to miss the playoffs just to start a QB earlier because you don't have patience. The kid is 21 and will be ours for like 15 years. Starting him this year is so stupid I don't know where to start. This team won 12 games last year and can again. Enjoy the moment for pete's sake.

So you dont think he can give us Ass11 type production?

[Ming the Merciless]

So you dont think he can give us Ass11 type production?

yah it might be difficult to get 3500 yards and 15 td...

:rolleyes:

[BigCatDaddy]

yah it might be difficult to get 3500 yards and 15 td...

:rolleyes:

Exactly....

[Ming the Merciless]

I also think NFL defenses game planning for a rook can take advantage of his youth decisions and to assume he'll continue to perform at the level he did preseason is a huge gamble.


You dont think good defenses can plan for dump off passes and screens?

Of course its a gamble, but I mean..we know the outcome if we don't gamble. In life sometimes you have to roll the dice. I get that he needs some time. I don't buy he COULDNT make the playoffs or prove that he is an NFL QB if he started though.

Your claim that we absolutely could not make the playoffs if he started is false, IMO.

[Kiimo]

I'm not trying to be hard headed about this I just disagree. I don't think he's ready to lead an NFL team.

But this time next year we'll all be on the same page. We finally got a QB.

[Chiefshrink]

Dudes I'm not a Smith supporter but saying he doesn't win games...

That's like the ONLY thing he does

Guaranteed playoff loss vs ridding of rookie mistakes now as opposed to next year while being highly entertained in the process with an actual legit chance to win every game.

I'll take the Rook!!:thumb:

[Ming the Merciless]

Guaranteed playoff loss vs ridding of rookie mistakes now as opposed to next year while being highly entertained in the process.

I'll take the Rook!!:thumb:

Its really hard for me not to agree with this argument....

The only reason I still think we start the season with smith is because if we make any change now, I think Smith is done and it would be detrimental to him. Once we start mahomes in one game, we have to go all in. so we do need to wait till the time is right.

I think if we are in the hunt, and alex smith has a typical alex smith year...I think we will see mahomes by the end of the season. I'm coming around to that possibility as serious...hopefully my homerboner isnt sucking the blood out of my brain..but I see mahomes could become the starter after the bye or a week or 2 after.

[Chiefshrink]

Its really hard for me not to agree with this argument....

The only reason I still think we start the season with smith is because if we make any change now, I think Smith is done and it would be detrimental to him. Once we start mahomes in one game, we have to go all in. so we do need to wait till the time is right.

I think if we are in the hunt, and alex smith has a typical alex smith year...I think we will see mahomes by the end of the season. I'm coming around to that possibility as serious...hopefully my homerboner isnt sucking the blood out of my brain..but I see mahomes could become the starter after the bye or a week or 2 after.

Yes it would be valuable to let Mahomes get experience on the sideline in the beginning in an actual NFL game to see how everything works(pace,chemistry and rhythm of the game) and to your point IF we get off to a rocky start because of AS then I say "cut bait" and put the Rook in after the 6th game.

And to your point about AS being typical AS in the playoffs playing against Pitt or NE if Andy feels that AS ain't getting it done, then I would love nothing more than to watch Tomlin/Bellichek 'deficate' in their pants as PM2 trots onto the field in the 2nd half or 4th qtr because they didn't game plan for him.:D

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I just don't understand why you're so sure we can't make the playoffs with Mahomes as the quarterback. Obviously you haven't been watching his performances when he's in the game. Anybody who says they are a big supporter of him should be able to see that he has the talent to take us to the playoffs and beyond! Especially with the teammates that he has helping him.

I love how there exists absolutely NO LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR KEEPING MAHOMES ON THE BENCH NOW.

None.

Zero.

In any case, the players have bought-in on Mahomes 10000000000000000000000%, the chemistry in the locker room is growing, I'm sure several players have already begun the process of riding Smith's ass when he goes "full-Smith"( jokingly, of course wink-wink ), and the table is being set for the very immediate future, so piss on the remnants of the fatty-loving True Fan; they'll soon be as dead, forgotten, and gone as JJ's 600 year-old dinosaurs.

[Rasputin]

What if we don't make the playoffs with Alex Smith? It's sure not guaranteed. We just may not score enough points to win close ball games because our offense doesn't click with Alex Smith.


I'm going be pissed if we miss playoffs and kept Patrick Mahomes II on the bench until we are out of contention.

[JakeF]

I'm going be pissed
Got it.

[Rasputin]

I'm not trying to be hard headed about this I just disagree. I don't think he's ready to lead an NFL team.

But this time next year we'll all be on the same page. We finally got a QB.

You are being hard headed and ignorant. Give the kid a chance and I guarantee he will have success and blow people's expectations out the door. That's not saying he won't struggle or make mistakes but he is able learn and overcome them. Nagy and Andy have said he learns from his mistakes and doesn't make them twice.

[Kiimo]

enjoy?

bahahahahahaha

I took a lot of heat in this thread but somehow I think you may have enjoyed the game last night.