Kansas City begins talk and studies for downtown ballpark

[Titty Meat]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article177058541.html

The city of Kansas City is funding a study of at least four potential sites for a downtown baseball stadium for the Kansas City Royals, according to documents obtained by The Star.

A series of emails shows that Kansas City Manager Troy Schulte was involved in funding studies of four sites within the downtown loop that might be suitable for a baseball stadium.

Two of those sites, according to slides prepared by architecture firm HOK, are immediately adjacent to the Sprint Center, one to the north and one to the east.

Another site is East Village, several blocks of mostly undeveloped land and surface parking lots east of City Hall. A fourth site would involve several blocks of mostly surface parking lots beginning at the northwest corner of 8th and Main streets.

Others involved in the planning include Jon Copaken, principal with real estate development firm Copaken-Brooks, the Downtown Council of Kansas City, JE Dunn, The Cordish Co. and Tower Properties.

Schulte said the studies started after the Downtown Council approached City Hall about the feasibility of downtown baseball. Schulte added that he agreed to help fund a study to consider whether the four sites would work so that the city could plan ahead if the idea gained momentum.

“At this point it’s nothing more than hopes and dreams and discussions,” Schulte said.

A May 12 email from Copaken obtained by The Star suggested that conversations with the Royals and Jackson County have started.

“[T]he studies are underway, invoices are out, conversations from the County and the team are actually heading in the right way and we are sufficiently in the loop to know that real progress is being achieved,” Copaken wrote.

Kevin Uhlich, senior vice president of business operations for the Royals, said he had been contacted about downtown baseball stadium proposals earlier this year.

[ptlyon]

The fuck?

Yes, I guess Kansas city is that stupid.

[Titty Meat]

LMAO

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/ac7hzs/picture177058536/alternates/FREE_320/Downtown%20stadium%20copy

[Molitoth]

Keitzman is masturbating right now.

Personally, I think this would be stupid. Kaufman is beautiful, and it's easy to get in and out.

Downtown parking would be a freaking nightmare. If you want to see the skyline, go down and utilize P&L.

[Titty Meat]

Keitzman is masturbating right now.

Personally, I think this would be stupid. Kaufman is beautiful, and it's easy to get in and out.

Downtown parking would be a freaking nightmare. If you want to see the skyline, go down and utilize P&L.

Yeah but they'll use the street car as an argument. They are ramming that thing down people's throats because people keep voting for it. They are building huge luxury apartments downtown and beginning to do the same in Westport.

[BlackHelicopters]

Downtown is wrong for the Royals.

[LoneWolf]

Dumb idea for the Royals. They draw a significant number of fans that drive from longer distances to the games. These fans would be less apt to attend games if they had to fight the traffic downtown.

[T-post Tom]

Keitzman is masturbating right now.


So are all the other downtown property/business owners. 27,754 people per game avg in 2017. That's a lot of bodies and dollars that would not be downtown otherwise.

[carcosa]

I went to Target Field on Opening Day. Their light rail really did make it easy to get to the stadium and back without many headaches, and that was with a sellout crowd. I love the K but if they did it right, a downtown stadium would be pretty cool.

[ptlyon]

So are all the other downtown property/business owners. 27,754 people per game avg in 2017. That's a lot of bodies and dollars that would not be downtown otherwise.

And a lot of bodies that won't bother to come if they move. Tourism is one thing, but kansascitians? Doubtful.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

No

[Prison Bitch]

Dumb idea for the Royals. They draw a significant number of fans that drive from longer distances to the games. These fans would be less apt to attend games if they had to fight the traffic downtown.

Lies^

A mid 90s survey reported only about 7% of our attendance comes from outside the metro.


Aren't you glad I'm here on this board?

[carcosa]

Yeah but they'll use the street car as an argument. They are ramming that thing down people's throats because people keep voting for it. They are building huge luxury apartments downtown and beginning to do the same in Westport.

They keep ramming it down people's throats... because people keep voting for it? That's like saying Pizza Hut is ramming pizza down the throats of people who order pizza from Pizza Hut.

[ptlyon]

Lies^

A mid 90s survey reported only about 7% of our attendance comes from outside the metro.


Aren't you glad I'm here on this board?

Really glad, being you can only cite numbers from 30 years ago.

[Prison Bitch]

Really glad, being you can only cite numbers from 30 years ago.

No problem.

[GloryDayz]

I think it's a wonderful idea and should have happened instead of the last renovations. To me baseball is a downtown sport and tailgating isn't that big of a deal at a baseball game, so a huge parking lot means little. Don't get me wrong, there's NOTHING wrong with the renovated K, it's the address and surrounding amenities are the issue.

But I'm surprised that they're doing it this soon after the renovations.

EDIT: Not to offend, but I'm older now and I'm OK with a roof over Arrowhead too.

[BWillie]

This would be fantastic for the Royals! Maybe in about 8 years. They spent too much money on the renovation to do it right away. But why anyone wouldn't want a downtown ballpark boggles my mind. Que the derp derp I drive right to the place I want to go and can't figure out why there no parkingerrrsss!!!! DERP DERP

[GloryDayz]

This would be fantastic for the Royals! Maybe in about 8 years. They spent too much money on the renovation to do it right away. But why anyone wouldn't want a downtown ballpark boggles my mind. Que the derp derp I drive right to the place I want to go and can't figure out why there no parkingerrrsss!!!! DERP DERP

Meh, expand light rail to parking spots and call it good.

[displacedinMN]

I went to Target Field on Opening Day. Their light rail really did make it easy to get to the stadium and back without many headaches, and that was with a sellout crowd. I love the K but if they did it right, a downtown stadium would be pretty cool.

The caveat on that is that HHH dome was quickly becoming a dump. Its usefulness as a two sport stadium was clear. The twins wanted and needed out. It had nothing to offer compared to the stadium today. The dagger of the place (after the twins moved) was 17 inches of snow falling and the roof collapsed. There is no place around that could have handled a stadium other than downtown. Plus add the new Vikes stadium-it works. The light rail helps.

I hate going anywhere close to downtown MPLS.

I understand Kaufman is still a great place. Nothing close to HHH.

KC has the best setup in sports-why fuck that up?

[TEX]

Meh, expand light rail to parking spots and call it good.

He's right. Even with light rail it probably won't work - at least it hasn't in Houston. Of course Houston is much larger than KC so maybe that has something to do with why it doesn't work well here. The Astrodome was so EASY to get to, easy to park, leave etc. Parking at Minute Maid is a nightmare - light rail runs right to it too. I get that it's the "In thing" to have a shiny, new Downtown ball park these days. Till you get one...

[TribalElder]

The street car comes around once every 30 minutes and is usually 2/3 full LMAO

It would be easier to just build better hotels by the stadiums

[dirk digler]

Why would that want to ruin what is already considered one of the best sport complexes ever built?

If they want light rail run it out to the sports complex and the new airport and various stops in between.

[LoneWolf]

Lies^

A mid 90s survey reported only about 7% of our attendance comes from outside the metro.


Aren't you glad I'm here on this board?

Mid 90s huh? That seems relevant to 2017.

[Coach]

I refuse to even consider a downtown park, for many issues. Infrastructure issues is the big one in downtown.

[Titty Meat]

They keep ramming it down people's throats... because people keep voting for it? That's like saying Pizza Hut is ramming pizza down the throats of people who order pizza from Pizza Hut.

What I mean is they love the street car but Kansas Citians hate not having parking. That's what's slowly happening to the city.

[Titty Meat]

This would be fantastic for the Royals! Maybe in about 8 years. They spent too much money on the renovation to do it right away. But why anyone wouldn't want a downtown ballpark boggles my mind. Que the derp derp I drive right to the place I want to go and can't figure out why there no parkingerrrsss!!!! DERP DERP

Haha well if it gets built in the East Village it will be VERY entertaining to see Johnson Countians freak out. We gotta park near Troost!?!?

[Sassy Squatch]

Probably should have brought this up a couple of years ago when we all had that world series high, not when we are potentially letting 4 fan favorite players walk.

[Chiefshrink]

Yeah but they'll use the street car as an argument. They are ramming that thing down people's throats because people keep voting for it. They are building huge luxury apartments downtown and beginning to do the same in Westport.

Yep, follow the $$ and you will see who is behind this.:hmmm:

[Chiefshrink]

Personally, I think this would be stupid. Kaufman is beautiful, and it's easy to get in and out.

Downtown parking would be a freaking nightmare. If you want to see the skyline, go down and utilize P&L.

BINGO !!

[Prison Bitch]

Mid 90s huh? That seems relevant to 2017.

It is, if you know the 80/20 rule (Pareto principle). 80% of Royals attendance can be expected to come from 20% of their base - the "heavy users"


I don't have to tell you where they reside.

[BWillie]

He's right. Even with light rail it probably won't work - at least it hasn't in Houston. Of course Houston is much larger than KC so maybe that has something to do with why it doesn't work well here. The Astrodome was so EASY to get to, easy to park, leave etc. Parking at Minute Maid is a nightmare - light rail runs right to it too. I get that it's the "In thing" to have a shiny, new Downtown ball park these days. Till you get one...

You are virtually the only person I've ever talked to that didn't like their cities downtown stadium.

[BlackHelicopters]

Downtown to put it simply is a shithole. The Royals won’t change that. Sprint Center was built on the cheap. Made downtown worse.

[BlackHelicopters]

You are virtually the only person I've ever talked to that didn't like their cities downtown stadium.

?????? Heh.

[Randallflagg]

I was in Denver 2-3 years ago and a client wanted to take me to a Rockies game. OK - no big deal. Went to the stadium (which is "sort of" downtown) and watched the game. The game, if I remember, it started at 2:00 in the afternoon and was over around 5:30 or thereabouts.

I was staying at a hotel in Longmont - 35 miles away - and it took 3 hours for me to get back there off of I-25.

Keep the K where it is....much easier to get in and out of after a game.

[lewdog]

This idea is as dumb as the OP.

[Al Czervik]

This idea is as dumb as the OP.

This

[cosmo20002]

Lies^

A mid 90s survey reported only about 7% of our attendance comes from outside the metro.


Aren't you glad I'm here on this board?

LMAOmid-90s
Thanks for the info

[Fish]

Navigating and parking downtown sucks hard. This is a nonstarter without a better public transit system.

[gblowfish]

HELL NO.

[Ming the Merciless]

LOL

Get off my lawn!!!

[underEJ]

Lots of time between a study and a plan. I like the current stadium, but no hurt in planning ahead if people want it downtown in 10 years. Development downtown is ramping up and forward thinking is great. It even says in the article it is hopes and dreams at this stage, but knowing the other downtown proposals people are looking at like potentially closing the north loop, the riverfront developments, and streetcar expansion, seems like a good idea to know now where they would target a ballpark "IF" it ever had strong support. That 4th option, the 8th and main grid of surface lots, could easily be replaced with a couple of well planned garages saving or even increasing parking capacity. It also might be a reason to keep the north loop for access.

I really don't think this would be the highest priority for the city at this point though whatever the study recommends.

[Randallflagg]

Lots of time between a study and a plan. I like the current stadium, but no hurt in planning ahead if people want it downtown in 10 years. Development downtown is ramping up and forward thinking is great. It even says in the article it is hopes and dreams at this stage, but knowing the other downtown proposals people are looking at like potentially closing the north loop, the riverfront developments, and streetcar expansion, seems like a good idea to know now where they would target a ballpark "IF" it ever had strong support. That 4th option, the 8th and main grid of surface lots, could easily be replaced with a couple of well planned garages saving or even increasing parking capacity. It also might be a reason to keep the north loop for access.

I really don't think this would be the highest priority for the city at this point though whatever the study recommends.

Hell, I remember Kietzman raising hell about not having a downtown ball park back in the late 90s. Hasn't happened yet and I wouldn't expect anything to happen for the next 15-20 years.

[TLO]

Absolutely not. Terrible, terrible idea.

[ChiefsCountry]

Sprint Center is easy to park and I have been there for many sold out concerts that wouldn't be that much different from a baseball game.

[siberian khatru]

This will be like the Bat Signal to bring Saul Good back to the board

[LoneWolf]

It is, if you know the 80/20 rule (Pareto principle). 80% of Royals attendance can be expected to come from 20% of their base - the "heavy users"


I don't have to tell you where they reside.

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

[gonefishin53]

Downtown businesses must be doing really well if they're going to pay for a brand new stadium in downtown K.C. /s

[BWillie]

Downtown to put it simply is a shithole. The Royals won’t change that. Sprint Center was built on the cheap. Made downtown worse.

Really? Downtown has really came alive starting about a decade ago. I think it's a fantastic place. I'd love to live down there.

[Demonpenz]

I would love it. You could go hit some bars before the game and after it without having to drive.

[Valiant]

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

Agreed. Build the area up around the stadiums. Not vice versa.

[BWillie]

Sprint Center is easy to park and I have been there for many sold out concerts that wouldn't be that much different from a baseball game.

Yeah I don't get it. Just plan where you are going to park. Or park a bit away and ride the street car. The street car will get you to within like a block in a half. I remember I went with my parents one time and they drove up to the Sprint Center expecting there to be parking right next to it, then bitched about no parking not heeding to my advice to turn left and park at x, y and z four blocks earlier ROFL

[Deberg_1990]

"If you build it, they will come"

I've never seen an instance of any new ballpark that had attendance problems

Fans will come. They always do

[BWillie]

I attended a Twins game at their new downtown ball park with my cousin last summer. Parked & rode the train thing in. Went right by the stadium. Was very convenient. Was able to drink before, after, eat at places NOT called Denny's. Lots of hotels if you want instead of ADAMS MARK that has bed bugs. Fantastic deal and beautiful.

[BWillie]

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

Downtown is, you know, right in the middle of the city. Making it really easy for anybody from anywhere to get there. It takes me ****ing 45 minutes to get to the stadium. Sure, downtown stadium only shaves 15 minutes off. But it's virtually accessible to EVERYONE. I go downtown quite a bit to meet up with friends who live in Liberty, Blue Springs, Gladstone because it's a nice central location to meet.

[Prison Bitch]

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

Over 90% of our fans live in the metro.


If you're now arguing the metro is "spread out", well: that's a very diff argument than they live far away

[tomahawk kid]

Anyone that’s parked in one of the garages for a Sprint Center concert would tell you this would be a logistical nightmare. It MIGHT work if you had light rail in place & functioning first. That’s a big “if”.

[Deberg_1990]

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

KC area is tiny compared to a lot of metro areas with downtown ballparks.

[LoneWolf]

Agreed. Build the area up around the stadiums. Not vice versa.

Yep.

[BlackHelicopters]

Really? Downtown has really came alive starting about a decade ago. I think it's a fantastic place. I'd love to live down there.

Why don’t you live there?

[Bugeater]

You are virtually the only person I've ever talked to that didn't like their cities downtown stadium.
I fucking despise ours and the jackass that foisted it on to us as well.

[ChiefsCountry]

Sports Complex area is not going to get built up. If it had potential to get built up, it already would have happened. It's an industrial park area.

[LoneWolf]

Why don’t you live there?

Poker doesn’t pay like it used to.

[ChiefsCountry]

I'm the out of town consumer. I live pretty much identical distances to Kansas City and St. Louis. If I go to a Royals game, normally just drive up for the game and then go home. If I go to a Cardinals game, I normally get a hotel downtown and stay. If the Royals were downtown I would probably get a hotel and enjoy downtown area while coming up to a game.

[displacedinMN]

Then what do you do with the K?

[ChiefsCountry]

Then what do you do with the K?

Chiefs $60 parking lot

[BWillie]

Why don’t you live there?

It's super expensive. You know why it's super expensive? Because people want to live there, at least single people. I wouldn't want to live there if I had a family, though.

Poker doesn’t pay like it used to.

This much is true, unfortunately.

[GloryDayz]

The main reason to put it downtown is because the current complex, while nice, has nothing around it. Other than a crappy motel across the bridge and a gas station, the area around the stadium sucks hair goat balls.

[GloucesterChief]

The main reason to put it downtown is because the current complex, while nice, has nothing around it. Other than a crappy motel across the bridge and a gas station, the area around the stadium sucks hair goat balls.

There is nothing really around Minute Maid in Houston either and it is downtown. Well, nothing other than bail bond offices really. You have to walk quite a few blocks to get to restaurants and decently priced hotels. Most of the restaurants in the area close at 3 and are not open on weekends.

All the economic impact reports will be complete bullshit.

[eDave]

Phoenix downtown arena and stadium have brought downtown Phoenix to life. Great time down there now.

No parking issues, light rail runs right by them.

[alpha_omega]

Don’t care for the idea, but it’s a better one than a new single-terminal airport.

[Halfcan]

Only shady interest want to move on from the beautiful K. Greedy bastards need to go away. Time to vote these incompetent narcissists out of power.

[BWillie]

I was mad the last MLB video game I played didn't show Denny's, the shitty gas station, and the roach infested hotel in the background. I was very offended and upset at it's lack of realism.

One of my college buddies came to a game one time, his first time in Kansas City. He got here early, all ready to have some drinks, go eat somewhere, take in Kansas City. He got to the huge concrete parking lot abyss and was very confused. There was nothing around it. There was nothing else he could do before or after the game in walking distance or a inexpensive cab ride. He kept being like lets go do this or that, isn't there something over that hill or over there. I just kept laughing and was like, well we can go eat the Grand Slam at Denny's but there is virtually nothing else to do here except drink in the parking lot and stare at the ground.

[kstater]

Not a big surprise that the corrupt city council is pissing away tax dollars on something that won't ever happen.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Pablo]

This will just confuse folks that have never set foot in downtown, but there are places to park. That big building down there hosts concerts and sporting events pretty regularly and people are able to drive their cars to those events. I know it will be trying and difficult to navigate streets with buildings instead of acres of parking lot, but I'm sure it can be done.

I don't expect this will ever happen, but I'd be just fine with a downtown stadium.

[Fish]

That big building down there has a capacity almost half of what Kauffman Stadium holds. Using the Sprint Center as proof that a downtown baseball stadium would work is pointless.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Sprint Center is easy to park and I have been there for many sold out concerts that wouldn't be that much different from a baseball game.

Downtown would add exactly 10 minutes to my travel time. It's a great idea. Should have been done this way instead of the last renovation.

[Eleazar]

Just like the city can't wait to destroy a convenient airport in order to generate more revenue for itself, they would love to destroy a great baseball stadium in order to install a generic downtown tax revenue generator

[Eleazar]

There is nothing really around Minute Maid in Houston either and it is downtown. Well, nothing other than bail bond offices really. You have to walk quite a few blocks to get to restaurants and decently priced hotels. Most of the restaurants in the area close at 3 and are not open on weekends.

All the economic impact reports will be complete bullshit.

They started building the new Vikings stadium in 2013, and still today there's really nothing around it that wasn't already happening. This is the same site where the Metrodome sat for over 30 years, and no development occurred in the area during that time either.

They are still knocking down dilapidated buildings and replacing them with cookie-cutter rental properties all over the city, including that area of downtown, but I doubt a person could point to any specific development that US Bank has caused to be started by its presence.

People don't want to live on the east side of downtown because there's nothing near it but shady areas, and the stadium isn't going to change that.

I don't think people move to an undesirable area in order to be near a stadium and people don't appreciate an inconvenient game day experience like having no parking.

These things get built not because fans want them but because the teams demand them and the city bows in order to keep the team, but I'd bet any examples where a stadium brought economic vibrancy to an area just by sitting there are few and far between.

[mnchiefsguy]

This is a stupid idea and a waste of taxpayers money.

[BWillie]

This is a stupid idea and a waste of taxpayers money.

I'd rather have the stadium at the ****ing Legends. In fact, I really can't think of a worse place to put a stadium than where it is right now. The only reason you guys like the location, is because it's all you've ever known.

I would really get a kick out of the Chiefs or Royals being in KANSAS. That would freak Methzourrahs the fuck out. KANSAS City Chiefs!

[KCUnited]

If I'm going to have to get in my car and drive to a game, I'd prefer the ease of getting in and out over what's around it. If I'm able to easily uber or utilize public transportation to get to a game, then I'd prefer it be in a downtown-like setup. In KC, most people are still going to have to drive to the game. I could see it down the road though as their downtown becomes more densely populated and the public transportation options get expanded.

[Coach]

If I'm going to have to get in my car and drive to a game, I'd prefer the ease of getting in and out over what's around it. If I'm able to easily uber or utilize public transportation to get to a game, then I'd prefer it be in a downtown-like setup. In KC, most people are still going to have to drive to the game. I could see it down the road though as their downtown becomes more densely populated and the public transportation options get expanded.

And that lies the problem in downtown Kansas City. There isn't enough ease of getting in and out over what's around it. The public transportation is even packed without a downtown stadium. There isn't enough parking spots available for a downtown game.

Simply put, the infrastructure for downtown Kansas City is not up to standards to contain all that traffic for a downtown baseball stadium at this point.

[Pilsner]

Why hasn't the area around the current stadia developed beyond a fleabitten motel and a Denny's?

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I think this is a start of leverage for the next ask for renovations at the sports complex. Leverage, nothing more.

[KCUnited]

And that lies the problem in downtown Kansas City. There isn't enough ease of getting in and out over what's around it. The public transportation is even packed without a downtown stadium. There isn't enough parking spots available for a downtown game.

Simply put, the infrastructure for downtown Kansas City is not up to standards to contain all that traffic for a downtown baseball stadium at this point.

Hopefully as more people start to live and work downtown, the demand for updated public transportation will be addressed.

I remember flying in for the World Series and Mets Fan staggering around KCI like 'how the fuck do I get to the hotel?', 'how the fuck do I get to the stadium?. I was like the rental car shuttle should be coming around any minute now.

[mr. tegu]

The Legends was literally nothing except open space and not exactly a lot of people nearby. Why can't something like that be developed by the stadiums? Those stadiumd as attractions are way more than what the Legends started with.

[ChiefsCountry]

Sports complex is located an industrial park and has shitty demographics around the stadium. If it was highly desirable for commercial development it would have already happened.

[ChiefsCountry]

The best site for a downtown ballpark isn't even on the study - 19th and Oak. Downtown, Crossroads and Crown Center area all meet.

[O.city]

Walking distance from the plaza an option?

[BlackHelicopters]

Many of us remember Municipal Stadium. Parking in peoples yards . I faintly remember.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Many of us remember Municipal Stadium. Parking in peoples yards . I faintly remember.

So what? You're of the thinking that you'd have to park in a yard?

[CaliforniaChief]

Why hasn't the area around the current stadia developed beyond a fleabitten motel and a Denny's?

No kidding.

We stayed at the above-mentioned hotel for our stay and while I can happily report no flea infestations, the place just isn't kept up at all. We stayed there for one reason: location. The rooms weren't nice, the bathrooms aren't kept up, they just don't give a crap. Weird.

[Titty Meat]

It will definitely happen. The stadium will be nearly 70 years old when the lease ends and Sprint Center will be almost 25. They won't be getting all the big shows then and downtown will need an anchor to attract folks. Regarding parking: there will be more street car then and they will build more parking garages.

[saphojunkie]

I know the Pareto principle you dipshit. KC is a different type of market. The city is spread out and really the vast majority of fans would have to drive to a downtown stadium. Unless you’re going to use light rail or busses to bring people from the likes of Overland Park, Olathe, Lee’s Summit, etc... to the ballpark and back home. Most of the population of KC lives outside of the downtown area.

So, the big reason I can tell everyone on here has for straight up HATING this idea is "I assume it will make my parking harder."

That's the dumbest fucking reason I can think of. Fuck your parking. Figure it out. The simple fact that you can park easily at the K is why you have to move the stadium. No businesses around there benefit from its location. Everyone just drives in, parks, drives out.

Put it downtown, and people will spend time - and money - around the stadium. THAT is why you move away from great parking.

[Fish]

LMAO... yeah the Royals are gonna tell their 40,000 fans "Fuck your parking. Figure it out."

[Oh Snap]

Whats wrong with kaufman? Didnt they renovate it not too long ago???

[DaveNull]

That big building down there has a capacity almost half of what Kauffman Stadium holds. Using the Sprint Center as proof that a downtown baseball stadium would work is pointless.

I don't know if it's entirely pointless. It shows that people are willing to come downtown and really did improve downtown from what it was before the arena was built.

I'm fairly ambivalent though...the city will need to get much more serious about managing traffic flows and communicating street closures if they want it to work. They have this habit of closing 13th street going under Bartle without any kind of public notice and they don't post signs indicating a closure until you are already too close to choose an alternate route.

Then that alternate route that you're forced into is a nightmare because the lights are timed to anticipate a much lower flow of traffic and suddenly see 3x the cars trying to get from the core to the I-35 onramp at broadway.

You can tell I've spent a good deal considering how to improve this while waiting in a quarter mile line of cars on Truman.

[Eleazar]

Whats wrong with kaufman? Didnt they renovate it not too long ago???

City government bureaucrats see something going well and are scheming as to how they can suck some more money out of it.

[Kiimo]

Downtown "traffic"


lmao, Kansas Citians.


Just lmao.

/losangeles

[Halfcan]

It will definitely happen. The stadium will be nearly 70 years old when the lease ends and Sprint Center will be almost 25. They won't be getting all the big shows then and downtown will need an anchor to attract folks. Regarding parking: there will be more street car then and they will build more parking garages.

Nothing like tailgating in a fucking parking garage. :rolleyes:

[Halfcan]

*

[dirk digler]

I wonder if the Royals/Chiefs don’t actually care about what is around the stadiums because that means more money will be spent inside them. Plus the Royals would lose millions of dollars in parking revenue if they moved downtown

[Dayze]

I have a Navy buddy from Long Island, who now lives just outside of the city; he retired in April from NYC police dept. He borrowed a buddies small RV, and his family (him, wife and 12 year old daughter) went on a 2.5 week summer cross country, and back trip.

They stopped by in mid July for 3 days; to visit (haven't seen him since Intel School back in the day), do laundry, and take in KC as much as they could. We went to a Royals vs Tigers ( I think) game the final night they were in town. They couldn't stop raving about Kauffman. They went on and on about how wide open it felt, and how they didn't seem to think there was a bad seat in the house. They did think/feel, however, that the stadium was "WAY OUT THERE", even though I live about 20 miles from it.

He's more of a hockey fan and doesn't really watch all that much baseball, but his daughter and wife are Yankees fans. all of them loved it. When they got back, they posted a bunch of pictures of their Kauffman experience on FB - all of their friends from the NY area posted comments/questions asking what it was like. He represented us well and said "I haven't been to many ball parks, but that's gotta be one, if not the best, places to watch a game". Also went on and on about how friendly everyone was. He said "people were so nice, it actually made me a little nerovus" LMAO

[Kiimo]

Shocker. The people arguing that this is some horrible idea. It's a great idea. Sorry if you live close to the Royals stadium, most do not. It's just as easy to drive from let's say Olathe to downtown as it is to drive to the K right now. Hell you can get off 35 and be right there.

LOL at this idea that "traffic" will be bad. It takes 20 minutes to get from Olathe to the river downtown. 20 minutes!!

I drive 48 minutes to work every day and I have one of the easier commutes. Yall a bunch of lazy short-sighted tards. A downtown stadium would be magical. The idea that we shouldn't do it because you're in love with a parking lot is asinine.

[KCUnited]

I have a Navy buddy from Long Island, who now lives just outside of the city; he retired in April from NYC police dept. He borrowed a buddies small RV, and his family (him, wife and 12 year old daughter) went on a 2.5 week summer cross country, and back trip.

They stopped by in mid July for 3 days; to visit (haven't seen him since Intel School back in the day), do laundry, and take in KC as much as they could. We went to a Royals vs Tigers ( I think) game the final night they were in town. They couldn't stop raving about Kauffman. They went on and on about how wide open it felt, and how they didn't seem to think there was a bad seat in the house. They did think/feel, however, that the stadium was "WAY OUT THERE", even though I live about 20 miles from it.

He's more of a hockey fan and doesn't really watch all that much baseball, but his daughter and wife are Yankees fans. all of them loved it. When they got back, they posted a bunch of pictures of their Kauffman experience on FB - all of their friends from the NY area posted comments/questions asking what it was like. He represented us well and said "I haven't been to many ball parks, but that's gotta be one, if not the best, places to watch a game". Also went on and on about how friendly everyone was. He said "people were so nice, it actually made me a little nerovus" LMAO

After game 2 of the WS, the wife and I were in the shuttle to the terminal after dropping off the rental car at KCI. There was a Mets fan beside us, total NY baseball dork, 50's, glasses, heavy accent. He was on his phone and the conversation went something like:

You wouldn't believe it, ma. There were just rows of cars and they just sat behind them cooking their food. NO, MA! In the parking lot, cooking their food! Smoke everywhere! NO INSIDE THE PARKING LOT, MA!

[Fish]

Shocker. The people arguing that this is some horrible idea. It's a great idea. Sorry if you live close to the Royals stadium, most do not. It's just as easy to drive from let's say Olathe to downtown as it is to drive to the K right now. Hell you can get off 35 and be right there.

LOL at this idea that "traffic" will be bad. It takes 20 minutes to get from Olathe to the river downtown. 20 minutes!!

I drive 48 minutes to work every day and I have one of the easier commutes. Yall a bunch of lazy short-sighted tards. A downtown stadium would be magical. The idea that we shouldn't do it because you're in love with a parking lot is asinine.

One individual getting there is quite different than ~40,000 individuals getting there at the same time. That type of situation doesn't currently happen downtown. With Sprint Center at capacity, it's half of what Kauffman currently provides. Imagine the worst Sprint Center concert traffic you've experienced, and double it. Downtown simply doesn't have the current capacity for that at once. There's not enough multiple lane streets downtown that connect to the major highways. Not to mention the many criss-crossing one way streets. Kauffman currently benefits from multiple entrance/exit gates that takes vehicles from the stadium lots directly onto I-70/435/Hwy 40/Blue Ridge. It still takes hours to get everyone into and out of the lots. Now you expect to simply move that downtown, where parking is the opposite of the centralized lots that Kauffman enjoys?

Take a lesson from the Royals World Series parade at Union Station. Anybody present for that knows what a clusterfuck it was to navigate anywhere close to downtown for that entire day. People were abandoning their vehicles on the side of I-70 that day.

https://i.imgur.com/MkxZWKY.jpg

[ghak99]

After game 2 of the WS, the wife and I were in the shuttle to the terminal after dropping off the rental car at KCI. There was a Mets fan beside us, total NY baseball dork, 50's, glasses, heavy accent. He was on his phone and the conversation went something like:

You wouldn't believe it, ma. There were just rows of cars and they just sat behind them cooking their food. NO, MA! In the parking lot, cooking their food! Smoke everywhere! NO INSIDE THE PARKING LOT, MA!

LMAO

[sedated]

Nothing like tailgating in a ****ing parking garage. :rolleyes:

Tailgating would not exist downtown. At least not the way we think of it. A few guys here and there pounding a beer before walking in.

[scho63]

I can't speak for Kansas City but MANY places that have downtown baseball stadiums have awesome surrounding areas; San Fran, Pittsburgh, Baltimore (but not if you go in the wrong direction) Detroit, Arizona, Philly to name a few.

[GloryDayz]

Not a big surprise that the corrupt city council is pissing away tax dollars on something that won't ever happen.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I've had an office in downtown sing 2002, I've watched every "not gonna happen" story grow around me. Powers & Light, H&R Block, Sprint Center, 1 Light, you name it, all things that weren't going to happen...

[Kiimo]

San Diego too.

[GloryDayz]

I'd rather have the stadium at the ****ing Legends. In fact, I really can't think of a worse place to put a stadium than where it is right now. The only reason you guys like the location, is because it's all you've ever known.

I would really get a kick out of the Chiefs or Royals being in KANSAS. That would freak Methzourrahs the fuck out. KANSAS City Chiefs!

Well, if KCMO doesn't do something it will end up at the Legends. JACO had better understand the WYCO (and JOCO) doesn't fuck around when it comes to stealing business from across the state line.

[GloryDayz]

If I'm going to have to get in my car and drive to a game, I'd prefer the ease of getting in and out over what's around it. If I'm able to easily uber or utilize public transportation to get to a game, then I'd prefer it be in a downtown-like setup. In KC, most people are still going to have to drive to the game. I could see it down the road though as their downtown becomes more densely populated and the public transportation options get expanded.

For football I won't disagree. 10 home games, and 10 epic tailgates, that's manageable. 81+ home games and tailgates can better be replaced with trips to an adjacent sports bar. Not to mention drowning a crushing loss at a bar after the game ain't a bad choice.

[lewdog]

Phoenix downtown arena and stadium have brought downtown Phoenix to life. Great time down there now.

No parking issues, light rail runs right by them.

Hell, we always drive and use the parking garages for sports or concerts and it's a cake walk in downtown Phoenix. Might spend at most 45 minutes getting out of the garages after the event but after that it's smooth sailing.

[LoneWolf]

So, the big reason I can tell everyone on here has for straight up HATING this idea is "I assume it will make my parking harder."

That's the dumbest fucking reason I can think of. Fuck your parking. Figure it out. The simple fact that you can park easily at the K is why you have to move the stadium. No businesses around there benefit from its location. Everyone just drives in, parks, drives out.

Put it downtown, and people will spend time - and money - around the stadium. THAT is why you move away from great parking.

I hope you’re not a business owner. Telling your customers “fuck your convenience” is not usually a good move.

[Bugeater]

Nothing like tailgating in a fucking parking garage. :rolleyes:
Is tailgating really that big of thing with baseball fans? I've only been to a handful of Royals games but I don't recall it being anything like the Chiefs games.

[Bugeater]

So, the big reason I can tell everyone on here has for straight up HATING this idea is "I assume it will make my parking harder."

That's the dumbest fucking reason I can think of. Fuck your parking. Figure it out. The simple fact that you can park easily at the K is why you have to move the stadium. No businesses around there benefit from its location. Everyone just drives in, parks, drives out.

Put it downtown, and people will spend time - and money - around the stadium. THAT is why you move away from great parking.
Yes, move the stadium, and inconvenience the hell out of all the fans just to benefit a handful of businesses.

[GloryDayz]

Is tailgating really that big of thing with baseball fans? I've only been to a handful of Royals games but I don't recall it being anything like the Chiefs games.

Most people, at best, have beers and break out a portable/disposable grill. Yeah, there might be a few exceptions, the key word is "few."

For baseball a trip to P&L for lunch and a beer would be 1000000% better than a July or and August tailgate in 95-degree weather. An exit drink while letting traffic die down would be sweet too.

And let's hope the new park will provide TONS of shade for the fans in the summer.

[sedated]

Is tailgating really that big of thing with baseball fans? I've only been to a handful of Royals games but I don't recall it being anything like the Chiefs games.

Timing and number of games doesnt make it as conducive to it, starting at 7 on weeknights and having 81 home games. But there's more than you would think. If you get there at 3 or 4, there are plenty of groups (college kids and 20s) partying it up. Later the lot fills in with people just off work and heading in.

[ChiefsCountry]

One individual getting there is quite different than ~40,000 individuals getting there at the same time. That type of situation doesn't currently happen downtown. With Sprint Center at capacity, it's half of what Kauffman currently provides. Imagine the worst Sprint Center concert traffic you've experienced, and double it. Downtown simply doesn't have the current capacity for that at once. There's not enough multiple lane streets downtown that connect to the major highways. Not to mention the many criss-crossing one way streets. Kauffman currently benefits from multiple entrance/exit gates that takes vehicles from the stadium lots directly onto I-70/435/Hwy 40/Blue Ridge. It still takes hours to get everyone into and out of the lots. Now you expect to simply move that downtown, where parking is the opposite of the centralized lots that Kauffman enjoys?

Take a lesson from the Royals World Series parade at Union Station. Anybody present for that knows what a cluster**** it was to navigate anywhere close to downtown for that entire day. People were abandoning their vehicles on the side of I-70 that day.

https://i.imgur.com/MkxZWKY.jpg

800,000 > 27,000 to 30,000 on a normal Royals game really good comparison there.

[tk13]

I've been to a lot of baseball stadiums, and I do think the K is one of the best places to watch a game. I actually go to games to watch the games. Most people who push for a downtown stadium want it so they can go to a bar near the stadium. And that's fine and all, but it really has zip to do with baseball. So from that end I'm fine with the K just where it is.

The atmosphere around downtown stadiums are pretty fun. There's for sure a 100% solid argument for doing it in KC too. That said, I think a lot of the successful ones have better public transportation options than what KC does though. The Twins on here being a great example. That's a great ballpark in a great location. But...you can take a light rail train from St. Paul or the Mall of America and go to the games. There's no way in heck you're going to convince anyone to build a light rail to Independence or Olathe. For me that's the biggest obstacle.

[Bearcat]

800,000 > 27,000 to 30,000 on a normal Royals game really good comparison there.

Uh, yeah. LMAO

Hell, Sprint Center holds almost 19,000 and it's really easy to get in and out of downtown, even when it's packed. Another 10k or even 20k isn't going leave people stranded on the highway.

The DBack's stadium is great... we parked close to the stadium last night and had no issues with traffic (besides the normal 3pm traffic in the area prior to the game). They have a TGI Fridays that is open all year, and the restaurant has it's own small section with full table service. There's also a gym at ground level for people who live in the area, and probably other stuff I haven't noticed.

[SAUTO]

The best site for a downtown ballpark isn't even on the study - 19th and Oak. Downtown, Crossroads and Crown Center area all meet.

I agree

[Bearcat]

The best site for a downtown ballpark isn't even on the study - 19th and Oak. Downtown, Crossroads and Crown Center area all meet.

Hmm, seems pretty perfect from a traffic standpoint, with 19th going west for 35S, 19th going east for 71, then multiple ways to get on 670... and a light rail stop.

You should run for mayor.

[Fish]

800,000 > 27,000 to 30,000 on a normal Royals game really good comparison there.

The crowd at the parade was not anything close to 800,000.

Regardless, you're neglecting how much that would actually change parking and navigating to the hypothetical downtown stadium. Currently, the Royals enjoy a Jackson County Sports Complex contract with Jackson County that brings in untold millions of dollars in parking fees for the Royals. It provides convenient access onto I-70/435/Hwy 40/Blue Ridge for fans. Which still requires several hours for 30K-40K fans to enter/exit. They receive profit for every single car parking for the game. The public can show up at any specific gate, and be guaranteed a parking spot, and are directed to the location without having to search around for a spot.

You're asking them to switch from that to who knows WTF parking downtown all over left up to the public, which the Royals would not have anything close to complete control over, while also giving up food concession, beer sales, and product sales to nearby restaurants, while disregarding what is already a poorly accessible area with regards to highway access. WTF is in it financially for the Royals to move?

[Discuss Thrower]

The crowd at the parade was not anything close to 800,000.

Regardless, you're neglecting how much that would actually change parking and navigating to the hypothetical downtown stadium. Currently, the Royals enjoy a Jackson County Sports Complex contract with Jackson County that brings in untold millions of dollars in parking fees for the Royals. It provides convenient access onto I-70/435/Hwy 40/Blue Ridge for fans. Which still requires several hours for 30K-40K fans to enter/exit. They receive profit for every single car parking for the game. The public can show up at any specific gate, and be guaranteed a parking spot, and are directed to the location without having to search around for a spot.

You're asking them to switch from that to who knows WTF parking downtown all over left up to the public, which the Royals would not have anything close to complete control over, while also giving up food concession, beer sales, and product sales to nearby restaurants, while disregarding what is already a poorly accessible area with regards to highway access. WTF is in it financially for the Royals to move?

Smaller stadium with fewer seats that can be sold for a higher premium than currently is the case?

[Fish]

Smaller stadium with fewer seats that can be sold for a higher premium than currently is the case?

Most likely, but then I'd question whether that's in the best interest of Joe Royal's Fan.

Regardless, when you're talking about $15 for Royals general parking permit, vs. a ticket price and certain loss of parking income, is it really worth it?

[JoeyChuckles]

Smaller stadium with fewer seats that can be sold for a higher premium than currently is the case?

Also more walk-ups from people leaving work or just downtown in general.

I think people around here are really scared of change for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. It's the same discussion as the airport. The only argument I've heard for either is "convenience", which basically means "don't change it because I like it the way it is".

[Bearcat]

The crowd at the parade was not anything close to 800,000.

Regardless, you're neglecting how much that would actually change parking and navigating to the hypothetical downtown stadium. Currently, the Royals enjoy a Jackson County Sports Complex contract with Jackson County that brings in untold millions of dollars in parking fees for the Royals. It provides convenient access onto I-70/435/Hwy 40/Blue Ridge for fans. Which still requires several hours for 30K-40K fans to enter/exit. They receive profit for every single car parking for the game. The public can show up at any specific gate, and be guaranteed a parking spot, and are directed to the location without having to search around for a spot.

You're asking them to switch from that to who knows WTF parking downtown all over left up to the public, which the Royals would not have anything close to complete control over, while also giving up food concession, beer sales, and product sales to nearby restaurants, while disregarding what is already a poorly accessible area with regards to highway access. WTF is in it financially for the Royals to move?

Several hours to enter/exit a Royals game at the K? What? :spock:

Not sure they'd give up that much in food/drink sales... a lot of people currently tailgate before and some after. There are several places around Chase Field for food and beer, and their concession lines have sucked the couple times I've tried to get food and/or beer.

And downtown would be fine in terms of traffic, a lot of suburbanites would have to get over their fear of downtown.

I've heard a lot of different things about who gets parking money now... would be a little interesting to know actual dollar amounts, and I assume the Royals could also buy space for their own parking... of course not 40,000 spots though.


Also more walk-ups from people leaving work or just downtown in general.


Good point, it's more of a night out or out of convenience instead of making the night all about going out to TSC.

[Fish]

Several hours to enter/exit a Royals game at the K? What? :spock:

Not sure they'd give up that much in food/drink sales... a lot of people currently tailgate before and some after. There are several places around Chase Field for food and beer, and their concession lines have sucked the couple times I've tried to get food and/or beer.

And downtown would be fine in terms of traffic, a lot of suburbanites would have to get over their fear of downtown.

I've heard a lot of different things about who gets parking money now... would be a little interesting to know actual dollar amounts, and I assume the Royals could also buy space for their own parking... of course not 40,000 spots though.




Good point, it's more of a night out or out of convenience instead of making the night all about going out to TSC.

Again, what reasoning would the Royals organization have for dumping their current setup and moving to this? Especially considering how much the Power & Light project has financially flopped and cost taxpayers infinitely more than expected while providing way below anticipated returns?

[GloryDayz]

Again, what reasoning would the Royals organization have for dumping their current setup and moving to this? Especially considering how much the Power & Light project has financially flopped and cost taxpayers infinitely more than expected while providing way below anticipated returns?

LOL, I've lived through the downtown makeover, it's a huge success.

[ChiefsCountry]

Sprint Center is printing money.

[Fairplay]

Again, what reasoning would the Royals organization have for dumping their current setup and moving to this? Especially considering how much the Power & Light project has financially flopped and cost taxpayers infinitely more than expected while providing way below anticipated returns?

It would be a mistake and the only reason it would be moved is the Sprint center area and KC wants money to flow there, all political Fish.

[tk13]

The Royals would probably consider the loss of parking fees when considering any proposal the city makes. But I'm sure they could find a way to roll that into ticket prices. Going to a game downtown would likely be a more expensive evening, unless they do come up with some kind of serious public transportation plan.

I highly doubt they'd make a new stadium even smaller. The K already has the one of the smallest capacities in the league.

[Discuss Thrower]

Most likely, but then I'd question whether that's in the best interest of Joe Royal's Fan.

Regardless, when you're talking about $15 for Royals general parking permit, vs. a ticket price and certain loss of parking income, is it really worth it?

You'd have to be certain a very large portion of that $15 goes to the Glass family and not split somewhat evenly with Jackson County.

The interest of Joe Royals Fan is pretty irrelevant, however.

[Fairplay]

Tailgating would not exist downtown. At least not the way we think of it. A few guys here and there pounding a beer before walking in.

Yep the famous tailgating that this city is known for would be virtually none existent.

[GloryDayz]

Sprint Center is printing money.

No shit... It seems like every other fucking week they're closing streets down for an event there! It's why I pretty much Telework 90% of the time anymore. OK, 98% of the time when I'm in town!

In 2003 downtown was a ghost town! Hell my parking place was where the Flying Saucer's bar is. Words can't express how improved downtown is these days.

It's time to move the ballpark there... It's the right thing to do.

[mr. tegu]

I am glad downtown has improved but we don't have to copy every other new park and end the tailgating that people love and are proud to be known for. Get creative. Create a complex around the stadium. If businesses want the stadium moved there they are welcome to instead develop something around the stadiums if they are convinced fans means revenue. But they dont seem to want to invest in that and instead just want the teams to bring the fans to them.

What kind of planning went into the Legends? Who was the catalyst and did some companies sort of sign on to get it started?

[Bearcat]

Again, what reasoning would the Royals organization have for dumping their current setup and moving to this? Especially considering how much the Power & Light project has financially flopped and cost taxpayers infinitely more than expected while providing way below anticipated returns?

I'm sure those with the actual data from all the downtown stadiums out there and actual dollar amounts for stuff like parking should be able to figure it out. I'm sure P&L would do much better with a professional team nearby, since of course all the original projections were counting on one. I have no clue how much better/worse (if any change) they'd do at the gate or with renting out suites or whatever downtown. I think it would be great for fans and don't think it would be bad for the Royals, but yay capitalism, none of that matters.

That said, I'm personally not a fan of publicly funding millionaires to completely replace stadiums that are perfectly fine for the sole purpose of making more money...... but, until that scam ends, the K will "need" to be replaced eventually and I think downtown would be a great spot.

[Bearcat]

Yep the famous tailgating that this city is known for would be virtually none existent.

The Chiefs would still be at Arrowhead, which is the only team known for tailgating fans. :shrug:

[tk13]

Also, even with loss of parking there will probably be other revenue opportunities. For instance, if they build a new stadium it won't be Kauffman Stadium, they'll almost certainly sell naming rights and make a nice chunk of change each year. There won't be the blowback you'd get now by taking Ewing Kauffman's name off the current stadium, although maybe I'm wrong on that.

[GloryDayz]

I am glad downtown has improved but we don't have to copy every other new park and end the tailgating that people love and are proud to be known for. Get creative. Create a complex around the stadium. If businesses want the stadium moved there they are welcome to instead develop something around the stadiums if they are convinced fans means revenue. But they dont seem to want to invest in that and instead just want the teams to bring the fans to them.

What kind of planning went into the Legends? Who was the catalyst and did some companies sort of sign on to get it started?

I don't see a lot of tailgating at Royals games. Certainly nothing like Chiefs games.

And if they'd move some businesses in, perhaps, but they won't. And the Jan-Apr drought would kill most businesses. Hell, the Oct-Jan part would be though with only 10 guaranteed Chiefs games.

[mr. tegu]

I don't see a lot of tailgating at Royals games. Certainly nothing like Chiefs games.

And if they'd move some businesses in, perhaps, but they won't. And the Jan-Apr drought would kill most businesses. Hell, the Oct-Jan part would be though with only 10 guaranteed Chiefs games.

That's where the creative part comes in. Using the Legends as an example, there are places there that attract people year round and it just beefs up one when SKC plays. They don't play often at all but it works. Having an entire complex with something for everyone, not just a few random bars and restaraunts, is definitely necessary though.

[DaveNull]

Goodness, GloryDayz and I are agreeing on something for the first time since the last time we bitched about the traffic coming out of our parking garage.

I'm gonna go lie down.

In all seriousness, GD...why don't we come up with some kind of electric message board to put at the exit that just says whether 13th is open all the way or not?

[Titty Meat]

Tailgating would not exist downtown. At least not the way we think of it. A few guys here and there pounding a beer before walking in.

Its a shame none of the bars in PNL would run some sort of inexpensive happy hour but I bet some of the smaller bars will and it would be a great pregame.

[suzzer99]

My theory is PNL would stop sucking so bad with a real downtown stadium. Let's find out!

[007]

If it happens, that will be the end of me going to games. I don't go to many but I have no interest in dealing with downtown.

[GloryDayz]

That's where the creative part comes in. Using the Legends as an example, there are places there that attract people year round and it just beefs up one when SKC plays. They don't play often at all but it works. Having an entire complex with something for everyone, not just a few random bars and restaraunts, is definitely necessary though.

Sign me up, I'll vote for it. Mind you, we have morons that'll point to places like the Legends and P&L being an abject failure, and they'll pump that fake news 24x7...

That being said, I'd still love to see it moved downtown. Perhaps the Berkley Riverfront area (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1157472,-94.5709136,1567m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) is an option. It's not downtown, but downtown people could walk there. Parking could be added there too, and perhaps players could hit balls into the River..

[GloryDayz]

Goodness, GloryDayz and I are agreeing on something for the first time since the last time we bitched about the traffic coming out of our parking garage.

I'm gonna go lie down.

In all seriousness, GD...why don't we come up with some kind of electric message board to put at the exit that just says whether 13th is open all the way or not?

Partly because the fucking morons took out our east-side exit (FOR A FUCKING DOWNTOWN BANK DRIVE THRU), I pretty-much Telework all the time. And if I do go into my office, it's pretty-much:


After rush hour
I leave before 3:00 or after 6:00
Never when they have the streets closed
Never during the Big-12 tournament
Never (again) when Colin Powell is giving a speech at the Sprint Center LMAO


There are certain monthly meetings I can't get out of, and I only interview employees at the office, but short of that, it's better to work from home when in town (which happens a lot more now).

[GloryDayz]

If it happens, that will be the end of me going to games. I don't go to many but I have no interest in dealing with downtown.

You'll go and you know it! It's going to be freaking awesome...

Man, I'd ask them to make a "Businessman's" STH package! If I couldn't make it, you give the ticket to somebody in the office..

[Deberg_1990]

Have they even identified potential locations? Is there even space? Or will they have to buyout some property and relocate some people? This has happened in other cities.

[Deberg_1990]

Have they even identified potential locations? Is there even space? Or will they have to buyout some property and relocate some people? This has happened in other cities.

Oops. I failed to read the entire story. :facepalm: Looks like they have

[Dayze]

After game 2 of the WS, the wife and I were in the shuttle to the terminal after dropping off the rental car at KCI. There was a Mets fan beside us, total NY baseball dork, 50's, glasses, heavy accent. He was on his phone and the conversation went something like:

You wouldn't believe it, ma. There were just rows of cars and they just sat behind them cooking their food. NO, MA! In the parking lot, cooking their food! Smoke everywhere! NO INSIDE THE PARKING LOT, MA!

LMAO

[Spott]

Sounds like perfect timing. The Royals are starting to go back to the old Royals, so they might as well give fans another reason not to go to the games.

[Fish]

I'm sure those with the actual data from all the downtown stadiums out there and actual dollar amounts for stuff like parking should be able to figure it out. I'm sure P&L would do much better with a professional team nearby, since of course all the original projections were counting on one. I have no clue how much better/worse (if any change) they'd do at the gate or with renting out suites or whatever downtown. I think it would be great for fans and don't think it would be bad for the Royals, but yay capitalism, none of that matters.

That said, I'm personally not a fan of publicly funding millionaires to completely replace stadiums that are perfectly fine for the sole purpose of making more money...... but, until that scam ends, the K will "need" to be replaced eventually and I think downtown would be a great spot.

We were once told that P&L district was what was going to revitalize downtown. Now we're talking about maybe a new stadium will help P&L. The P&L district hit local taxpayers hard, and the businesses haven't come close to paying back the debts.

Despite large Power & Light District crowds, taxpayers are still on the hook (http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article9530081.html)

[...]

Turns out, though, that even with all that, Kansas City taxpayers are still on the hook for millions of dollars in subsidies for the district, and will be for years to come.

“I don’t think there will be a point at any time in the foreseeable future, probably the next 20 years, where it actually pays for itself,” acknowledged City Manager Troy Schulte.

[...]

Back in 2006, the city issued $295 million in bonds to help the Cordish Co. of Baltimore build the seven-block entertainment district. About two-thirds of that funding was for site acquisition, parking garages and other public infrastructure, including sewers and streets.

The city guaranteed the debt, but the consulting firm C.H. Johnson estimated the district itself would generate $18 million to $20 million in taxes to cover that annual debt service.

It didn’t come close. The district opened later than anticipated, just prior to the collapse of the nation’s economy. It took longer to lease than expected. Sales, property and earnings tax revenues to help pay the debt have ranged from $4.5 million to $5.4 million in recent years, according to the city.

But, Schulte noted, that’s only about 25 to 30 percent of what’s needed each year. Taxpayers are covering the rest.

In fiscal year 2014, which ended April 30, the total debt service was $19.6 million but the district only generated $4.7 million, so taxpayers picked up the $14.9 million tab. That’s money that wasn’t available for police, fire, code enforcement and other services.

Last year, the city refinanced the debt, which lowered the payments from 2015 through 2019 but extended the debt schedule from 2033 to 2040. The district is estimated to generate $5.4 million this fiscal year and the taxpayer obligation is projected to be $8.5 million. Next fiscal year, the district is projected to generate $5.5 million, meaning the city will have to pitch in $9.5 million.

The debt service bumps back up by 2020 and extends out for years.

The 2014 sales results show just how far off the original projections were, Schulte said. The district would need many World Series crowds to fully cover the bond payments.

“You needed Plaza-level holiday-level sales every day of the year,” said Schulte, who was not city manager when the Power & Light District city obligation was approved.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article9530081.html

I'm not seeing how doubling down with a huge new project, in an area that's already way in debt and failing to live up to its promises, is a good idea. Especially considering that we just renovated Kauffman, which we taxpayers financed as well...

[displacedinMN]

After game 2 of the WS, the wife and I were in the shuttle to the terminal after dropping off the rental car at KCI. There was a Mets fan beside us, total NY baseball dork, 50's, glasses, heavy accent. He was on his phone and the conversation went something like:

You wouldn't believe it, ma. There were just rows of cars and they just sat behind them cooking their food. NO, MA! In the parking lot, cooking their food! Smoke everywhere! NO INSIDE THE PARKING LOT, MA!

I guess he has never been to the Meadowlands for a football game.

[KCUnited]

I guess he has never been to the Meadowlands for a football game.

He looked purley like a baseball guy. The kind with headphones listening to the radio broadcast while scoring the game.

[Halfcan]

We were once told that P&L district was what was going to revitalize downtown. Now we're talking about maybe a new stadium will help P&L. The P&L district hit local taxpayers hard, and the businesses haven't come close to paying back the debts.



I'm not seeing how doubling down with a huge new project, in an area that's already way in debt and failing to live up to its promises, is a good idea. Especially considering that we just renovated Kauffman, which we taxpayers financed as well...

:clap:

Exactly!

Anyone that believes the leaders in KC can build a more beautiful and accessible stadium at P@L is delusional. I have been to many ballparks and the K is the best.

[DaneMcCloud]

I guess he has never been to the Meadowlands for a football game.

I have and it's lame.

I saw more people tailgating at a Rams game last year than at a Chiefs-Jets game at the Meadowlands.

Rams.

[BlackHelicopters]

Going into more debt to get out of debt? Which corrupt left wing idiot suggested this?

[Bearcat]

Sign me up, I'll vote for it. Mind you, we have morons that'll point to places like the Legends and P&L being an abject failure, and they'll pump that fake news 24x7...

That being said, I'd still love to see it moved downtown. Perhaps the Berkley Riverfront area (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1157472,-94.5709136,1567m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) is an option. It's not downtown, but downtown people could walk there. Parking could be added there too, and perhaps players could hit balls into the River..

Well, maybe point it the other way... not sure a view of the river and NKC is the best backdrop. They could still hit foul balls into the river though? :shrug:

[HonestChieffan]

Like all ideas generated by the Mayors office, city council, or talk radio....this is pure ignorant.

[007]

You'll go and you know it! It's going to be freaking awesome...

Man, I'd ask them to make a "Businessman's" STH package! If I couldn't make it, you give the ticket to somebody in the office..You underestimate my resolve. I went to one concert at sprint center and have never been back.

[GloryDayz]

Well, maybe point it the other way... not sure a view of the river and NKC is the best backdrop. They could still hit foul balls into the river though? :shrug:

:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm: :clap::clap::clap:

[Bearcat]

You underestimate my resolve. I went to one concert at sprint center and have never been back.

https://i.imgflip.com/nr38l.jpg

[lewdog]

You underestimate my resolve. I went to one concert at sprint center and have never been back.

That's simply because you're cheap though.

[FloridaMan88]

KC needs a new airport... focus on that.

[Bearcat]

That's simply because you're cheap though.

Parks on top of closest parking garage.


Wonders why it takes so long to leave.

[BWillie]

KC needs a new airport... focus on that.

Best airport in the country. In and out.

[GloryDayz]

KC needs a new airport... focus on that.

I'm not sure I agree. I've been flying in and out of MCI since 1999 and it's hands-down the best airport. A bit dark, but that matters little. Add trains between the three terminals and it would be complete. Add rail from Lee's Summit, Independence, OP, Olathe, and it would be even more perfect.

[BWillie]

Parks on top of closest parking garage.


Wonders why it takes so long to leave.

Haha so true

[Bearcat]

KC needs a new airport... focus on that.

I've heard the argument "it's great if you live there, but sucks if you don't"...... but, not sure why that would matter unless you have a layover between terminals, and WTF does that?

I guess people complain about the lack of food/drink options after security, but lines are so short, it's not like you have to show up more than 10-15 minutes before boarding. And if you have a long layover, you could leave the security area and get back in within 5-10 minutes.... :shrug:

[KChiefs1]

This is such a lame idea.

[GloryDayz]

I've heard the argument "it's great if you live there, but sucks if you don't"...... but, not sure why that would matter unless you have a layover between terminals, and WTF does that?

I guess people complain about the lack of food/drink options after security, but lines are so short, it's not like you have to show up more than 10-15 minutes before boarding. And if you have a long layover, you could leave the security area and get back in within 5-10 minutes.... :shrug:

This. Living in Lee's Summit means I get a 45 minute drive to the airport no matter what. I usually don't drive anymore because Execucar is just more convenient, but when I did I could leave the house at 4:30 and have no problem making a 6:00am flight to Dallas. Execucar still picks me up 4:30, but it's nice to sleep on the way to the airport and work on the way home.
(Well worth the money!!!) But if you're driving MCI's circle parking mixed with airline Apps is 100% the cat's ass. Apply for TSA Pre-check and life is SWEET! And the Pre-check is actually more useful in places like Dallas, Minneapolis, O'hare, and Dulles.

[007]

That's simply because you're cheap though.

If you truly knew me, you would know that is simply not true. I do get the most I can out of a dollar but it doesn't make me cheap. Definitely patient.

[Spott]

Best airport in the country. In and out.

No doubt. One of the better parts of traveling back home is getting in and out of KCI. I would guess the airport would be a little boring if you had a long layover, but I've never had to deal with that.

[Dayze]

Speaking of airports....


How much traffic goes in and out of Wheeler?
Put a stadium there.

[GloryDayz]

No doubt. One of the better parts of traveling back home is getting in and out of KCI. I would guess the airport would be a little boring if you had a long layover, but I've never had to deal with that.

We're not a hub, leave that bullshit to Dallas, Minneapolis, Atlanta and the likes. Back when I was traveling 3 weeks a month, MCI and Execucar were two of the best parts of travel.

As for the companies saying they're discounting moving to the KC area because of MCI, I call bullshit. I'd really like to hear what about the airport itself leads them to say that. Then I'd like to know what about the new single terminal airport is going to have them change their mind.

[GloryDayz]

Speaking of airports....


How much traffic goes in and out of Wheeler?
Put a stadium there.

:hmmm:

I'm glad you brought that up.... I was going to say that last night, let the KC skyline be the target for home runs..

And I say that because I only see a few corporate jets taking off each day. I think it's time for it to go.

[KCUnited]

Trying to get back across that bridge from Wheeler would seem like a shitshow. I had a loft that looked out onto that bridge and the morning commute was always jammed up through there. Unless they've made improvements since I've been gone.

[SAUTO]

Trying to get back across that bridge from Wheeler would seem like a shitshow. I had a loft that looked out onto that bridge and the morning commute was always jammed up through there. Unless they've made improvements since I've been gone.

And if you fucked up and went North you have to go 10 miles before you could turn around

[KCUnited]

And if you fucked up and went North you have to go 10 miles before you could turn around

Yep. I know they've used that bridge for DUI checkpoints in the past because once you're on it there's nowhere else to go.

[cooper barrett]

The Heart of America (ASB) is a long bridge but isn't that backed up on a regular basis unless I-35 is clogged. and the bridge from the old airport (Buck O'Neil) has never been a headache unless there is a wreck as I recall..

1- Why move the ball park? it's fine where it is..

2- Yes Wheeler needs to go but a ball park? Put it on the west side of I-670 on the hill but first refer to #1. You won't have to build a new bridge to get there...

[DanT]

I'm not sure I agree. I've been flying in and out of MCI since 1999 and it's hands-down the best airport. A bit dark, but that matters little. Add trains between the three terminals and it would be complete. Add rail from Lee's Summit, Independence, OP, Olathe, and it would be even more perfect.

To me, KCI is among the worst airports that I use, and I only use it when visiting my family, not for connecting flights. Given that KCI is not very popular for connecting flights, I would guess that most of the passengers who were eligible to rate it in the latest J.D. Power 2017 North American Airport Satisfaction Study used it purely for round trips. Even still, it only got rated in the "about average" tier, with a score of 742, close to the average rating 745 for its class ("Large Airports"). http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

My primary airport is Sacramento International, a "Medium Airport", which received the highest overall average rating, a 810. But it's not just Sacramento's airport that is far better than KCI in my opinion, it's damn near every U.S. airport I've been through in the past few years. In large part this is because KCI's layout is ridiculous. Each terminal is already weak on amenities, because a huge amount of terminal space is devoted to facilities of zero use for waiting/connecting passengers (e.g. doors to the sidewalks, ticket agents, baggage claims), but a passenger who is in a secure zone is further confined to a small fraction of the miserable terminal, a fraction that is even more miserable. To leave the miserable secure zone requires paying the cost of an extra trip through security. I'm a TSA-Pre member and I still don't like having to do that, because it takes a few minutes, and there's no good reason for it. KCI is the only airport that I know of that has such an outdated and useless layout, except perhaps LaGuardia, a third-world dump.

So that's just one man's opinion, but it's from someone who is a complete Kansas City homer. KCI is a disaster that even Kansas Citians don't actually seem to like all that much given the mediocre ratings it gets from surveys. If you factor in what its ratings would be if it had significant connecting passenger traffic, it's a complete and total disaster. It's amazing to me that the folks in Kansas City would concede that their airport should not be a hub. It's in the middle of the continent, and KCI was always intended to be a hub. It just happened to end up with a daring design that ended up not paying off in the modern era of heavy passenger screening. Even if a Kansas Citian did not want or think that their airport could be a hub, I can't understand why they would think that they have a good airport. It's stuck in the early 1970's by a restrictive architecture, while other airports have gone way past it. Even older airports are way the hell nicer. I was at Washington National on Wednesday, and that place is far the hell more pleasant to wait for a flight than Monday. I admit that the comparison is fair, because I just became a United Club member and National has a Club, and so of course it's a lot more comfortable to wait in a club than in a regular waiting area, but even accounting for that, at National, you have way more amenities available to you compared to what's available at KCI.

[DanT]

People who know me know that I'm way biased in favor of Kansas City. It's sad that I would have trouble recommending Kansas City as a meeting site for a professional conference, but that's the reality, because that airport fuckin' sucks, which makes there be fewer flights than there could be and which also makes it that one would be embarrassed to have colleagues or clients stuck there waiting for flights.

[Reerun_KC]

Speaking of airports....


How much traffic goes in and out of Wheeler?
Put a stadium there.



A shit ton. Almost all business jets go in and out of there. Most cities have an executive airport for business travelers.

Removing it would kill people bringing more business into KC. KCI is a fucking mess for private industry.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bearcat]

To me, KCI is among the worst airports that I use, and I only use it when visiting my family, not for connecting flights. Given that KCI is not very popular for connecting flights, I would guess that most of the passengers who were eligible to rate it in the latest J.D. Power 2017 North American Airport Satisfaction Study used it purely for round trips. Even still, it only got rated in the "about average" tier, with a score of 742, close to the average rating 745 for its class ("Large Airports"). http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

My primary airport is Sacramento International, a "Medium Airport", which received the highest overall average rating, a 810. But it's not just Sacramento's airport that is far better than KCI in my opinion, it's damn near every U.S. airport I've been through in the past few years. In large part this is because KCI's layout is ridiculous. Each terminal is already weak on amenities, because a huge amount of terminal space is devoted to facilities of zero use for waiting/connecting passengers (e.g. doors to the sidewalks, ticket agents, baggage claims), but a passenger who is in a secure zone is further confined to a small fraction of the miserable terminal, a fraction that is even more miserable. To leave the miserable secure zone requires paying the cost of an extra trip through security. I'm a TSA-Pre member and I still don't like having to do that, because it takes a few minutes, and there's no good reason for it. KCI is the only airport that I know of that has such an outdated and useless layout, except perhaps La Guardia, a third-world dump.

So that's just one man's opinion, but it's from someone who is a complete Kansas City homer. KCI is a disaster that even Kansas Citians don't actually seem to like all that much given the mediocre ratings it gets from surveys. If you factor in what its ratings would be if it had significant connecting passenger traffic, it's a complete and total disaster. It's amazing to me that the folks in Kansas City would concede that their airport should not be a hub. It's in the middle of the continent, and KCI was always intended to be a hub. It just happened to end up with a daring design that ended up not paying off in the modern era of heavy passenger screening. Even if a Kansas Citian did not want or think that their airport could be a hub, I can't understand why they would think that they have a good airport. It's stuck in the early 1970's by a restrictive architecture, while other airports have gone way past it. Even older airports are way the hell nicer. I was at Washington National on Wednesday, and that place is far the hell more pleasant to wait for a flight than Monday. I admit that the comparison is fair, because I just became a United Club member and National has a Club, and so of course it's a lot more comfortable to wait in a club than in a regular waiting area, but even accounting for that, at National, you have way more amenities available to you compared to what's available at KCI.

So, what do people do at other airports, that KCI is lacking, that makes KCI so freakin' miserable? I show up pretty close to boarding time, usually have just enough time to play on the laptop for a bit, then get in line.

Of course, large/busier airports have restaurants beyond security, but if you're at KCI long enough to eat a meal, you're doing it wrong (especially with TSA-Pre). Maybe I've just been lucky with a lack of flight delays though.... I was there once for 3 extra hours, but I just played on my laptop and listened to music. If they had a nice craft beer bar, I'd buy a $10 airport beer before my flight, but not doing that doesn't exactly take my experience from good to disaster.

Or maybe I'm missing out on awesome pre-flight parties in those club lounges? :shrug:

[cooper barrett]

I have never heard a negative thought on MCI unless it was a first timer having to change terminals.

[ROYC75]

Say wut?:spock:

Just keep talking this senseless horseshit! :)

Some people are just not satisfied with a good thing!

[DanT]

So, what do people do at other airports, that KCI is lacking, that makes KCI so freakin' miserable? I show up pretty close to boarding time, usually have just enough time to play on the laptop for a bit, then get in line.

Of course, large/busier airports have restaurants beyond security, but if you're at KCI long enough to eat a meal, you're doing it wrong (especially with TSA-Pre). Maybe I've just been lucky with a lack of flight delays though.... I was there once for 3 extra hours, but I just played on my laptop and listened to music. If they had a nice craft beer bar, I'd buy a $10 airport beer before my flight, but not doing that doesn't exactly take my experience from good to disaster.

Or maybe I'm missing out on awesome pre-flight parties in those club lounges? :shrug:

As KCI is currently configured, few if any connecting flights would go through there, because it is so horrible. But at the airports that I tend to have connecting flights at (Denver, O'Hare and Houston), it's not uncommon to need to kill at least 30 minutes, so being able to get lunch or do some shopping is convenient. (I don't shop much, but in the past year, I've bought earplugs and a replacement Kindle at airports while traveling on flights that weren't delayed. And I got stuck in Denver overnight during a blizzard, so I needed to buy boots and gloves, which I was able to do at their airport.)

Also, I tend to have bad luck with travel delays. Nowadays, the airlines are so tightly scheduled that weather or equipment problems combine with safety restrictions for crew work hours to make it that delays propagate through the system. So I've had several times in the past year where I was stuck at the airport where I'm making my original departure. If you get stuck at KCI, that place sucks. My opinion on this is not unique. You can look at the Google Reviews for KCI (https://www.google.com/search?q=kansas+city+airport+google+reviews&oq=kansas+city+airport+google+reviews&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30k1.569949.579622.0.579892.34.29.0.0.0.0.295.3888.0j12j8.20.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..14.20.3888...0j46j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i20i264k1j0i20i264i46k1j46i20i264k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i 30k1.0.RgB2tgFW1aI#lrd=0x87c05e0888e68799:0xc3cdd0195d2edaa0,1,,) and see how badly it is viewed by a large number of flyers.

[Titty Meat]

Yep. I know they've used that bridge for DUI checkpoints in the past because once you're on it there's nowhere else to go.

DUI checkpoints are now illegal in MO.

[mnchiefsguy]

DUI checkpoints are now illegal in MO.

They are not illegal, they are just no longer funded by the state, which shifted the funding to "saturation patrols".

Police Departments can still put up a DUI checkpoint, they just have to pay for it themselves. Due to their expense, it is in not expected that any local departments will pay for it on their own, when they can just switch to the saturation patrol and get state and federal money.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article155652669.html

http://fox4kc.com/2017/05/09/checkpoints-cancelled-due-to-new-mo-legislation-barring-use-of-state-money/

[DanT]

I realize there are many Kansas Citians who love KCI or don't think it needs an expensive new terminal. It really depends on how one travels. For me, the place is bad and obviously needs to be updated. I couldn't imagine an airline choosing it for a hub, as it is currently configured. I think the airport hurts the city's commercial prospects, because it gives many travelers a really uncomfortable travel experience and gives a poor overall first and last impression of the city. But there are definitely folks who just need an airport for flying to and from places with fairly reliable service and little risk for flight delays. I imagine those customers like KCI a lot.

[ChiefsCountry]

Speaking of airports....


How much traffic goes in and out of Wheeler?
Put a stadium there.

Royals and all the MLB teams use Wheeler for their charters.

[FloridaMan88]

I'm not sure I agree. I've been flying in and out of MCI since 1999 and it's hands-down the best airport. A bit dark, but that matters little. Add trains between the three terminals and it would be complete. Add rail from Lee's Summit, Independence, OP, Olathe, and it would be even more perfect.

I would disagree with that assessment of MCI as would most business travelers I would guess as well.

The short distance difference from parking/curbside to gate that MCI supposedly has compared to most other airports is exaggerated. At Miami's airport it takes me usually about 10 minutes to get from parking/curbside to the gate.

MCI's set-up with the gates as small holding tanks do not allow for a normal TSA security set-up (i.e. dedicated TSA pre-check lanes) and also the restroom/amenities situation in the small/holding tank-type gates is lacking.

Also if you have to change airlines/terminals at MCI the supposed short distance advantage is negated.

Also if Kansas City wants to attract new business development... i.e. Amazon's second headquarters... MCI is a detriment towards that ambition.

[Titty Meat]

You underestimate my resolve. I went to one concert at sprint center and have never been back.

IMO concerts at Sprint Center suck. Sounds quality blows and it's such a cookie cutter arena.

[mnchiefsguy]

I realize there are many Kansas Citians who love KCI or don't think it needs an expensive new terminal. It really depends on how one travels. For me, the place is bad and obviously needs to be updated. I couldn't imagine an airline choosing it for a hub, as it is currently configured. I think the airport hurts the city's commercial prospects, because it gives many travelers a really uncomfortable travel experience and gives a poor overall first and last impression of the city. But there are definitely folks who just need an airport for flying to and from places with fairly reliable service and little risk for flight delays. I imagine those customers like KCI a lot.

Sorry KCI sucks for you, but I am not willing to pay for a new airport.

For all of the talk about it not costing taxpayers anything...no one mentions how much air fares will go up if a new airport is built.

Say goodbye to any decent airfares....expect 50% or more increases in ticket prices because the airlines have to recoup their investment. That is a lot to pay for a few more overpriced restaurants and a bar.

[FloridaMan88]

Sorry KCI sucks for you, but I am not willing to pay for a new airport.

Then say goodbye to any chance at trying to attract new business development to the area... i.e. Amazon's second headquarters.

[alpha_omega]

KC needs a new airport... focus on that.

Wrong.

[Strongside]

Sorry KCI sucks for you, but I am not willing to pay for a new airport.

For all of the talk about it not costing taxpayers anything...no one mentions how much air fares will go up if a new airport is built.

Say goodbye to any decent airfares....expect 50% or more increases in ticket prices because the airlines have to recoup their investment. That is a lot to pay for a few more overpriced restaurants and a bar.

This post is just fucking ignorant. How often do you travel. I use the airport 50 weeks a year and it’s the worst in the country outside of maybe LaGuardia. It’s a horrid first impression to what’s becoming a fine city. The airport is an outdated, logistical nightmare of a pile of shit.

My colleagues in Denver and Dallas pay far cheaper fares flying out of Denver or Love Field. The airlines have already stated that fares will not increase. It’s damn near impossible for me to get a direct flight to anywhere from KCI currently. There are More TSA staff at KCI than at JFK or Atlanta...fare prices may actually DECREASE when you don’t have to man 30 security checkpoints. Stop vomiting bullshit.

[mnchiefsguy]

This post is just ****ing ignorant. How often do you travel. I use the airport 50 weeks a year and it’s the worst in the country outside of maybe LaGuardia. It’s a horrid first impression to what’s becoming a fine city. The airport is an outdated, logistical nightmare of a pile of shit.

My colleagues in Denver and Dallas pay far cheaper fares flying out of Denver or Love Field. The airlines have already stated that fares will not increase. It’s damn near impossible for me to get a direct flight to anywhere from KCI currently. There are More TSA staff at KCI than at JFK or Atlanta...fare prices may actually DECREASE when you don’t have to man 30 security checkpoints. Stop vomiting bullshit.

Fuck you, you ignorant asshole. I fly out of KCI 5-10 times a year, and KCI is by far the easiest airport I have been to in terms of getting in and out. I also fly to plenty of places on a direct flight. It is a no frills airports, to be sure, but too much emphasis is being placed on making the airport a hip place to be. There is no fucking way KCI is the worst airport in the United States.

I do not give a shit what the airlines say...their are not going to invest that kind of money and not expect to a return on that investment...and how do you think the airlines will do that...hmmmmm.....

The idea that this airport is going to somehow cost taxpayers and customers nothing is fucking stupid. Everything has a cost to it.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if you are a fucking asshole.

[SAUTO]

5-10 or 50?
I'm taking the guy's opinion who does it 50 times a year

[Bearcat]

5-10 or 50?
I'm taking the guy's opinion who does it 50 times a year

I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I've always heard people who live there like KCI and those who don't, don't.... and probably the better way of saying it would be vacationers vs business travel.

I've flown out of KC quite a bit for work (not close to every week though), but was lucky enough to have direct flights to large cities for the most part... or if it wasn't a direct flight, it was because the town's airport only connected with the large cities in that state.

Hell, I'm not going to pay taxes on it... go for it, KC. :D

[mnchiefsguy]

5-10 or 50?
I'm taking the guy's opinion who does it 50 times a year

I probably flew off the handle a bit...but the guy was being an asshole, so I called him out on it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, although I thins 50 times a year could be a bit of a exaggeration (only home two week out of the year?) --- of course, nobody does that on the interwebs. I can only base my opinion on my experiences...and based on those, I think KCI is just fine.

I am sure that the KC City Council will figure out a way to waste money whether they build an airport or not.

[Bearcat]

I probably flew off the handle a bit...but the guy was being an asshole, so I called him out on it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, although I thins 50 times a year could be a bit of a exaggeration (only home two week out of the year?) --- of course, nobody does that on the interwebs. I can only base my opinion on my experiences...and based on those, I think KCI is just fine.

I am sure that the KC City Council will figure out a way to waste money whether they build an airport or not.

I know people who do it (travel every week of the year, and well, exaggerate on the internets), it's pretty crazy.... my last job was "up to 100% travel," but I'd be in one place for 3-6 months at a time and would only fly back at most once per month. I know people who fly out every Sunday and fly back every Friday.... I'm sure it burns out most people on travel after only a year or two.

[Discuss Thrower]

The airport's supposed advantage of being convenient will be negated when you're down to maybe three flights a day per airline to maybe 4 to 5 different hub cities.

Good luck if your final destination isn't Atlanta, Chicago, Denver or Dallas.

[SAUTO]

I probably flew off the handle a bit...but the guy was being an asshole, so I called him out on it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, although I thins 50 times a year could be a bit of a exaggeration (only home two week out of the year?) --- of course, nobody does that on the interwebs. I can only base my opinion on my experiences...and based on those, I think KCI is just fine.

I am sure that the KC City Council will figure out a way to waste money whether they build an airport or not.

I understand

[mnchiefsguy]

The airport's supposed advantage of being convenient will be negated when you're down to maybe three flights a day per airline to maybe 4 to 5 different hub cities.

Good luck if your final destination isn't Atlanta, Chicago, Denver or Dallas.

If we build a new airport...what airline is putting a hub here?

If no airline puts a hub here, then the new airport will face the same fate as the old.

[Titty Meat]

KC has little man's syndrome. It thinks it's a big city (it's not) yet we pay more in taxes than a place like Dallas and have very little to show for.

[mnchiefsguy]

KC has little man's syndrome. It thinks it's a big city (it's not) yet we pay more in taxes than a place like Dallas and have very little to show for.

KC politicians certainly do think that.

Best thing about KC is that it is just big enough (NFL, MLB) to be a major city, but it is small enough to be affordable and easy to get around.

Best of both worlds.

[Valiant]

To me, KCI is among the worst airports that I use, and I only use it when visiting my family, not for connecting flights. Given that KCI is not very popular for connecting flights, I would guess that most of the passengers who were eligible to rate it in the latest J.D. Power 2017 North American Airport Satisfaction Study used it purely for round trips. Even still, it only got rated in the "about average" tier, with a score of 742, close to the average rating 745 for its class ("Large Airports"). http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

My primary airport is Sacramento International, a "Medium Airport", which received the highest overall average rating, a 810. But it's not just Sacramento's airport that is far better than KCI in my opinion, it's damn near every U.S. airport I've been through in the past few years. In large part this is because KCI's layout is ridiculous. Each terminal is already weak on amenities, because a huge amount of terminal space is devoted to facilities of zero use for waiting/connecting passengers (e.g. doors to the sidewalks, ticket agents, baggage claims), but a passenger who is in a secure zone is further confined to a small fraction of the miserable terminal, a fraction that is even more miserable. To leave the miserable secure zone requires paying the cost of an extra trip through security. I'm a TSA-Pre member and I still don't like having to do that, because it takes a few minutes, and there's no good reason for it. KCI is the only airport that I know of that has such an outdated and useless layout, except perhaps LaGuardia, a third-world dump.

So that's just one man's opinion, but it's from someone who is a complete Kansas City homer. KCI is a disaster that even Kansas Citians don't actually seem to like all that much given the mediocre ratings it gets from surveys. If you factor in what its ratings would be if it had significant connecting passenger traffic, it's a complete and total disaster. It's amazing to me that the folks in Kansas City would concede that their airport should not be a hub. It's in the middle of the continent, and KCI was always intended to be a hub. It just happened to end up with a daring design that ended up not paying off in the modern era of heavy passenger screening. Even if a Kansas Citian did not want or think that their airport could be a hub, I can't understand why they would think that they have a good airport. It's stuck in the early 1970's by a restrictive architecture, while other airports have gone way past it. Even older airports are way the hell nicer. I was at Washington National on Wednesday, and that place is far the hell more pleasant to wait for a flight than Monday. I admit that the comparison is fair, because I just became a United Club member and National has a Club, and so of course it's a lot more comfortable to wait in a club than in a regular waiting area, but even accounting for that, at National, you have way more amenities available to you compared to what's available at KCI.


Soo the ratings have us middle of the pack. You say it is amenities and checking back through security that makes it suck?

From what I have read, we are not far off point wise with our current layout. Getting through security still takes less time then going through any other airport overall.

We are not a hub, we never will be. Why fuck over the citizens of kc so a private company can raise rates and make a killing? All for a few more amenities for layover travelers?

There is no need for the amount of security needed, one airport I saw on the news is getting rid of it.
Maybe petition the airlines to use the other sections of the airport more effectively instead of cramming into one? Hell, you can sell that as creating jobs.
Here is another idea, how about add a level to the airport? Then put everything you want there after checking in through security?


Bottom line, the change would make a private company rich, prices would skyrocket, ease of getting in and out would increase.

But hey, we have more amenities.

[Valiant]

The airport's supposed advantage of being convenient will be negated when you're down to maybe three flights a day per airline to maybe 4 to 5 different hub cities.

Good luck if your final destination isn't Atlanta, Chicago, Denver or Dallas.

That is just downright false though. KC has enough flyers consistently that it will never happen. There is a reason all the backers are not promising anything. No airline has said if you put in a new airport we will hub for the next 20 to 30 years because they do fine in kc already.

[GloryDayz]

To me, KCI is among the worst airports that I use, and I only use it when visiting my family, not for connecting flights. Given that KCI is not very popular for connecting flights, I would guess that most of the passengers who were eligible to rate it in the latest J.D. Power 2017 North American Airport Satisfaction Study used it purely for round trips. Even still, it only got rated in the "about average" tier, with a score of 742, close to the average rating 745 for its class ("Large Airports"). http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

My primary airport is Sacramento International, a "Medium Airport", which received the highest overall average rating, a 810. But it's not just Sacramento's airport that is far better than KCI in my opinion, it's damn near every U.S. airport I've been through in the past few years. In large part this is because KCI's layout is ridiculous. Each terminal is already weak on amenities, because a huge amount of terminal space is devoted to facilities of zero use for waiting/connecting passengers (e.g. doors to the sidewalks, ticket agents, baggage claims), but a passenger who is in a secure zone is further confined to a small fraction of the miserable terminal, a fraction that is even more miserable. To leave the miserable secure zone requires paying the cost of an extra trip through security. I'm a TSA-Pre member and I still don't like having to do that, because it takes a few minutes, and there's no good reason for it. KCI is the only airport that I know of that has such an outdated and useless layout, except perhaps LaGuardia, a third-world dump.

So that's just one man's opinion, but it's from someone who is a complete Kansas City homer. KCI is a disaster that even Kansas Citians don't actually seem to like all that much given the mediocre ratings it gets from surveys. If you factor in what its ratings would be if it had significant connecting passenger traffic, it's a complete and total disaster. It's amazing to me that the folks in Kansas City would concede that their airport should not be a hub. It's in the middle of the continent, and KCI was always intended to be a hub. It just happened to end up with a daring design that ended up not paying off in the modern era of heavy passenger screening. Even if a Kansas Citian did not want or think that their airport could be a hub, I can't understand why they would think that they have a good airport. It's stuck in the early 1970's by a restrictive architecture, while other airports have gone way past it. Even older airports are way the hell nicer. I was at Washington National on Wednesday, and that place is far the hell more pleasant to wait for a flight than Monday. I admit that the comparison is fair, because I just became a United Club member and National has a Club, and so of course it's a lot more comfortable to wait in a club than in a regular waiting area, but even accounting for that, at National, you have way more amenities available to you compared to what's available at KCI.

We're not going to be a hub even if we build the single terminal airport. And since it's not a hub, and it's not going to be a hug, it's perfect. If I don't get a ride to the airport I can park 250 feet from my gate, that's AWESOME!

In Sacramento have you ever driven onto the airport grounds 45 minutes before push-back and made the flight? If you haven't, you should understand why we love our airport.

I'll agree that the airport was design for pre-9/11 movement, but fuck it, it's awesome even cramped.

Hubs are for homos! Ha!

[DanT]

We're not going to be a hub even if we build the single terminal airport. And since it's not a hub, and it's not going to be a hug, it's perfect. If I don't get a ride to the airport I can park 250 feet from my gate, that's AWESOME!

In Sacramento have you ever driven onto the airport grounds 45 minutes before push-back and made the flight? If you haven't, you should understand why we love our airport.

I'll agree that the airport was design for pre-9/11 movement, but **** it, it's awesome even cramped.

Hubs are for homos! Ha!

As a matter of fact, I have driven onto the airport grounds 45 minutes before push-back and made the flight. The garage I normally use at Sacramento's airport is across the street from both terminals, and I have a fast trip from my car to the United counter, where I typically check a bag, through TSA-Pre, and on to my gate. I used to time my arrivals pretty close to departures, but as I've grown older, I tend to give myself more time, which at the airports I use regularly is time pleasantly spent. Last time I parked at SMF was Sunday. My parking spot was in row 1E, pretty much right across the street from Terminal A, and my plane was at the far end of the terminal, which you can see from this map is not very far at all ( http://sacramento.aero/smf/about/maps ), not much further than from KCI's United counter to its United gates.

It seems to be that with a better terminal, KCI would revert to being more of a hub. In 2000, 18% of its passenger were connecting passengers. That's when Vanguard had a hub there. After 9/11, connecting traffic plummeted to about 5%. That's largely because the entire aviation industry knows that KCI's layout is not well-suited for the post 9/11 security screening process, and connecting passengers dread the latest version of KCI.

Also, I do not see any basis for thinking that air fares would skyrocket or that the citizens of KC would be screwed for taxes. Other airports--including Sacramento and Indianapolis, both of which are among the best in passenger satisfaction--have made major terminal improvements recently, without significantly increasing ticket costs per passenger. That's because the ticket prices don't track with per-passenger costs very closely and per-passenger costs are fairly modest, anyway.

You can see relevant numbers to back these claims from the following story, which includes a link to a PowerPoint slide from some aviation consultants that was presented to city officials. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article62063222.html

Even if a renovated airport did nothing to improve overall revenues for airlines and vendors, a flat-out impossibility given that folks need to eat and drink and don't mind shopping either, if the shopping is good, a billion dollar outlay for an improved terminal would have an annual debt service of, let's say, $100 million or so. (The consultants for KC are thinking it would be $86 million, given their particulars. Here in Sacramento, we have a similar debt service for our new billion dollar terminal.) With 5 million enplaning passengers at $4.50 passenger facility charge per passenger (which is already what is charged), you're looking at $22.5 million of the debt service being taken care of, from that. So the other $80 million or so would be spread out over the 5 million enplanements, which would be $16 per ticket, with the silly assumption that there would be no increased cost recovery from arriving passengers and no other way for the businesses using the airport to recover the additional costs. That's the absolute top figure that you could be screwed out of, and that's making ridiculous assumptions that aren't connected to how ticket prices are actually set and that assume that KCI with a new terminal would not be getting any more passengers on which to offload costs. $16 per ticket is not a skyrocketing increase. More likely, the increase would be much lower than $10 per ticket. The consultants are thinking that most of the debt service would be covered by more revenue elsewhere at the airport. Even if you claimed that the consultants were totally out of their minds, you'd have a hard time explaining how their numbers are off by very much.

You can tell that Kansas Citians are being a bit crazy about the whole debate, because on one hand some people are complaining that their taxes would pay for it, while on the other hand some people are crying that a private company would get all the profits. How could it be both ways? Any government idiotic enough to forego the airport business sure as heck would at least force the private interests to bear the risk, if only not to be the stupidest ****in' politicians in the history of America.

But, y'all Kansas Citians that still live there are the ones who have to decide what to do. I don't live there anymore, and I don't have any reason to pretend that the shitty airport we have as the front door to the rest of the world is anything other than a ****in' embarrassment. In fact, I'm kinda proud of the fact that my hometown has an airport almost as shitty as LaGuardia, because New Yorkers already know they live in a great city and they don't try to keep up with the rest of the country. Kansas Citians tend to have the same inferiority complexes as citizens of most other medium cities, so it's kind of refreshing that when it comes to airports, Kansas Citians are proud of their buttcrack airport.

[Valiant]

As a matter of fact, I have driven onto the airport grounds 45 minutes before push-back and made the flight. The garage I normally use at Sacramento's airport is across the street from both terminals, and I have a fast trip from my car to the United counter, where I typically check a bag, through TSA-Pre, and on to my gate. I used to time my arrivals pretty close to departures, but as I've grown older, I tend to give myself more time, which at the airports I use regularly is time pleasantly spent.

It seems to be that with a better terminal, KCI would revert to being more of a hub. In 2000, 18% of its passenger were connecting passengers. That's when Vanguard had a hub there. After 9/11, connecting traffic plummeted to about 5%. That's largely because the entire aviation industry knows that KCI's layout is not well-suited for the post 9/11 security screening process, and connecting passengers dread the latest version of KCI.

Also, I do not see any basis for thinking that air fares would skyrocket or that the citizens of KC would be screwed for taxes. Other airports--including Sacramento and Indianapolis, both of which are among the best in passenger satisfaction, have made major terminal improvements recently, without significantly increasing ticket costs per passenger. That's because the ticket prices don't track with per-passenger costs very closely and per-passenger costs are fairly modest, anyway.

You can see relevant numbers to back these claims from the following story, which includes a link to a PowerPoint slide from some aviation consultants that was presented to city officials. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article62063222.html

Even if a renovated airport did nothing to improve overall revenues for airlines and vendors, a flat-out impossibility given that folks need to eat and drink and don't mind shopping either, if the shopping is good, a billion dollar outlay for an improved terminal would have an annual debt service of, let's say, $100 million or so. (The consultants for KC are thinking it would be $86 million, given their particulars. Here in Sacramento, we have a similar debt service for our new billion dollar terminal.) With 5 million enplaning passengers at $4.50 passenger facility charge per passenger (which is already what is charged), you're looking at $22.5 million of the debt service being taken care of, from that. So the other $80 million or so would be spread out over the 5 million enplanements, which is $16 per ticket, with the silly assumption that there would be no increased cost for arriving passengers. That's the absolute top figure that you could be screwed out of, and that's making ridiculous assumptions that aren't connected to how ticket prices are actually set and that assume that KCI with a new terminal would not be getting any more passengers on which to offload costs. $16 per ticket is not a ****ing skyrocketing increase. More likely, the increase would be much lower than $10 per ticket. The consultants are thinking it would be less than $5, with the rest of the debt service covered by more revenue elsewhere at the airport. Even if you claimed that the consultants were totally out of their minds, you'd have a hard time explaining how their numbers are off by very much.

You can tell that Kansas Citians are being a bit crazy about the whole debate, because on one hand some people are complaining that their taxes would pay for it, while on the other hand some people are crying that a private company would get all the profits. How could it be both ways? Any government idiotic enough to forego the airport business sure as heck would at least force the private interests to bear the risk, if only not to be the stupidest ****in' politicians in the history of America.

But, y'all Kansas Citians that still live there are the ones who have to decide what to do. I don't live there anymore, and I don't have any reason to pretend that the shitty airport we have as the front door to the rest of the world is anything other than a ****in' embarrassment. In fact, I'm kinda proud of the fact that my hometown has an airport almost as shitty as LaGuardia, because New Yorkers already know they live in a great city and they don't try to keep up with the rest of the country. Kansas Citians tend to have the same inferiority complexes as citizens of most other medium cities, so it's kind of refreshing that when it comes to airports, Kansas Citians are proud of their buttcrack airport.

Those other places won't be owned by a private business.
Did you happen to listen to commercials for it. They loved the fact that this would be the first privately owned airport and citizens would not have to spend money.

They can have analyst give you any reports or speculations on minimal cost increase and I will call bullshit. The company will make all their money back in 3 years minimum. They will also set up a provision the city funds any shortfalls. You said yourself, 95% of the traffic is local through the airport so we will pay all the increase from here on out. Everyone is throwing pressure and money to sell this plan. If it was good as everyone is saying the city would just pay for it themselves. Trust me our politicians are dumb enough for this. They have constantly made bad deals for the city that have never paid out.

They have talked about adding a paid toll road on i70. Owned by a private company. But all maintenance done by modot.
Look at redlight cameras here. Promised money stream to pd here as the pd would get a percentage back. What happened, they had to be reviewed by an officer, when fought in court every ticket was dropped. The pd were spending more on overtime than profit coming in.
Power and light has lost the city a ton of lost money. Currently only generating a 3rd of promised tax generation per last report.

We get hit with bad deals all the time here from our leaders. This smells like a bad deal.

I am not against upgrading the airport, like I said add a level and get rid of the TSA. But I and most of the city is set to vote no against a privately owned and ran airport from what I am hearing.

[BWillie]

5-10 or 50?
I'm taking the guy's opinion who does it 50 times a year

Yeah...cuz you know, the whole process of flying changes all the time? You fly 3 times a year. You know what airports suck. You know what airports suck? Chicago O-Hare fucking sucks. LaGuardia fucking sucks. LAX fucking sucks.

KCI/MCI whatever you want to call it, it a breeze. Sure it's ugly. But I'm flying on a fucking plane. I fly direct to LA, Vegas, and Dallas all the time. You can fly to LAX and back for $80 dollars. EIGHTY.

[BWillie]

KC has little man's syndrome. It thinks it's a big city (it's not) yet we pay more in taxes than a place like Dallas and have very little to show for.

Nobody in Kansas City thinks we are a big city comparable to Atlanta, Dallas, Houston etc. And they don't want to be. But We are a Top 30 metro area, with 3 pro franchises.

We compare to St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Milwaukee. And I'd say definitely the best out of those.

[HonestChieffan]

The Airport is great. No need to change it.
Downtown is marginal. Everything they do to make it cool sucks.
Stadium downtown is total ignorant.

[GloryDayz]

As a matter of fact, I have driven onto the airport grounds 45 minutes before push-back and made the flight. The garage I normally use at Sacramento's airport is across the street from both terminals, and I have a fast trip from my car to the United counter, where I typically check a bag, through TSA-Pre, and on to my gate. I used to time my arrivals pretty close to departures, but as I've grown older, I tend to give myself more time, which at the airports I use regularly is time pleasantly spent. Last time I parked at SMF was Sunday. My parking spot was in row 1E, pretty much right across the street from Terminal A, and my plane was at the far end of the terminal, which you can see from this map is not very far at all ( http://sacramento.aero/smf/about/maps ), not much further than from KCI's United counter to its United gates.

It seems to be that with a better terminal, KCI would revert to being more of a hub. In 2000, 18% of its passenger were connecting passengers. That's when Vanguard had a hub there. After 9/11, connecting traffic plummeted to about 5%. That's largely because the entire aviation industry knows that KCI's layout is not well-suited for the post 9/11 security screening process, and connecting passengers dread the latest version of KCI.

Also, I do not see any basis for thinking that air fares would skyrocket or that the citizens of KC would be screwed for taxes. Other airports--including Sacramento and Indianapolis, both of which are among the best in passenger satisfaction--have made major terminal improvements recently, without significantly increasing ticket costs per passenger. That's because the ticket prices don't track with per-passenger costs very closely and per-passenger costs are fairly modest, anyway.

You can see relevant numbers to back these claims from the following story, which includes a link to a PowerPoint slide from some aviation consultants that was presented to city officials. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article62063222.html

Even if a renovated airport did nothing to improve overall revenues for airlines and vendors, a flat-out impossibility given that folks need to eat and drink and don't mind shopping either, if the shopping is good, a billion dollar outlay for an improved terminal would have an annual debt service of, let's say, $100 million or so. (The consultants for KC are thinking it would be $86 million, given their particulars. Here in Sacramento, we have a similar debt service for our new billion dollar terminal.) With 5 million enplaning passengers at $4.50 passenger facility charge per passenger (which is already what is charged), you're looking at $22.5 million of the debt service being taken care of, from that. So the other $80 million or so would be spread out over the 5 million enplanements, which would be $16 per ticket, with the silly assumption that there would be no increased cost recovery from arriving passengers and no other way for the businesses using the airport to recover the additional costs. That's the absolute top figure that you could be screwed out of, and that's making ridiculous assumptions that aren't connected to how ticket prices are actually set and that assume that KCI with a new terminal would not be getting any more passengers on which to offload costs. $16 per ticket is not a skyrocketing increase. More likely, the increase would be much lower than $10 per ticket. The consultants are thinking that most of the debt service would be covered by more revenue elsewhere at the airport. Even if you claimed that the consultants were totally out of their minds, you'd have a hard time explaining how their numbers are off by very much.

You can tell that Kansas Citians are being a bit crazy about the whole debate, because on one hand some people are complaining that their taxes would pay for it, while on the other hand some people are crying that a private company would get all the profits. How could it be both ways? Any government idiotic enough to forego the airport business sure as heck would at least force the private interests to bear the risk, if only not to be the stupidest ****in' politicians in the history of America.

But, y'all Kansas Citians that still live there are the ones who have to decide what to do. I don't live there anymore, and I don't have any reason to pretend that the shitty airport we have as the front door to the rest of the world is anything other than a ****in' embarrassment. In fact, I'm kinda proud of the fact that my hometown has an airport almost as shitty as LaGuardia, because New Yorkers already know they live in a great city and they don't try to keep up with the rest of the country. Kansas Citians tend to have the same inferiority complexes as citizens of most other medium cities, so it's kind of refreshing that when it comes to airports, Kansas Citians are proud of their buttcrack airport.Sounds like you have a vested interest in the airport deal, more than just the occasional KC visitor. I, for one, won't vote for a chrome and glass building unless they tell me how my ability to part 250 feet from my gate won't change. As for shopping, fuck that, we're not a hub.

I fear the plan will result in ORD'esque TSA Shrek lines of hell. It's not worth the chance.

Not, couple the vote with a guarantee the we will become a hub, maybe I'll rethink, but we know that'll never happen.

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