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BlackOp
10-26-2017, 03:23 PM
"Kansas City cornerbacks Terrance Mitchell (51.7 overall grade) and Phillip Gaines (33.3) rank 81st and 112th, respectively, out of 112 qualified cornerbacks this year.

Acker cant be worse...can he? He'd have a pretty low bar to meet...

BlackHelicopters
10-26-2017, 03:25 PM
Source? Link?
As if we need sources and links to know they suck.

BlackOp
10-26-2017, 03:28 PM
Source? Link?
As if we need sources and links to know they suck.

It's mentioned in the trade for Vontae Davis article...

https://247sports.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/Bolt/Pro-Football-Focus-proposes-Kansas-City-Chiefs-trade-for-Vontae--109484496/#

old_geezer
10-26-2017, 03:28 PM
I object to the use of "Phillip Gaines" and "qualified cornerback" in the same sentence.

KranzDictum
10-26-2017, 03:31 PM
Gaines has been hot trash for a long time. They seem to love his speed though.

Don't worry he will probably get hurt soon and miss the rest of the season like he has done the last couple years.

kcchiefsus
10-26-2017, 03:35 PM
Draft 3 defensive backs last year, not one of which is worth a shit, and ignore the secondary for the most part this offseason. That sounds like a winning formula from John Dorsey. It's amazing our defense was as good as it was for a few years because Dorsey fucking sucked at finding defensive talent.

BWillie
10-26-2017, 03:43 PM
I've given up on Gaines. We need to try someone else. Not only is he bad, he shits himself anytime he almost gets beat for HUGE PI penalties.

Easy 6
10-26-2017, 03:49 PM
All In will be along shortly to rip you a new one for posting this

DJ's left nut
10-26-2017, 03:55 PM
I needed to be told that Phillip Gaines is the worst CB in the NFL right now?

Oh wait...no I didn't. At all.

Look - Gaines seems likely a genuinely likeable guy and a hard worker. I hate that injuries have derailed him because he really did look like a long-term solid #2 CB in his 2nd year. But right now, he's just absolutely awful. I don't see the initial burst he used to have when he looked like a better version of Trae Waynes taken 2 rounds later. The dude had athleticism in spades and you couldn't really roast him because he'd catch up.

But now that the first step speed has seemingly vanished, he's feeling for everything and guessing (poorly). Whether he's physically capable of reading/reacting to a receiver isn't all that relevant because it's clear that he doesn't think he is. So he's trying to guess what a guy's doing instead of feeling/sensing it and more often than not he's guessing poorly and suddenly there's a whole lot of space around the guy he was covering.

His confidence is shot. And there are 2 possibilities here - it's shot because it SHOULD be and he's simply physically incapable of being the player we thought he would be. Or it's shot because he's convinced himself that he's not physically capable of being the player we thought he would be.

In either event, you can't have the guy on the field right now. He's the guess hitter that's going to swing through the slider in the dirt every time because he thinks (rightly or wrongly) that he needs to cheat ahead to catch up to the fastball.

And this is his walk year so if he needs a change of scenery and a new staff to clear his head and convince him that he still has the physical tools he once had, so be it. There's every bit as good a chance that those physical tools are gone though. It sucks, but it's football. In either event, it's really time for the Chiefs to move on from him, IMO.

alpha_omega
10-26-2017, 04:01 PM
So, where does he rank on the Bartee scale? Better or worse?

Hammock Parties
10-26-2017, 04:04 PM
Same shit, different year.

threebag
10-26-2017, 04:05 PM
Gaines to Offense?


LMAO

Hammock Parties
10-26-2017, 04:05 PM
So, where does he rank on the Bartee scale? Better or worse?

If he was starting...worse.

Titty Meat
10-26-2017, 04:06 PM
He's Marcus Cooper #2

Chiefshrink
10-26-2017, 07:03 PM
He's Marcus Cooper #2

Totally agree. Has the physical ability but absolutely "no confidence" and it shows !!:hmmm:

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
10-26-2017, 07:33 PM
So, where does he rank on the Bartee scale? Better or worse?

Definitely better than Bartee.

1) He can turn his head.
2) I've never seen a QB audible out of a play while pointing at a CB like I saw Dalton to Bartee when Cincinatti beat us when we were 9-0. Everytime Bartee was in the game, the pass went directly at him and he never saw one coming.

Black Bob
10-26-2017, 07:39 PM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

Flying High D
10-26-2017, 09:18 PM
He is star struck by the players on the opposite team.

OldSchool
10-26-2017, 09:29 PM
Gaines doesn't have his legs anymore. Dude's knees are shot.

kcchiefsus
10-26-2017, 09:34 PM
Gaines doesn't have his legs anymore. Dude's knees are shot.

a common theme around this team it seems

OldSchool
10-26-2017, 09:35 PM
a common theme around this team it seems

Or achilles.

Flying High D
10-26-2017, 09:35 PM
“If you’re going to be that big of a man, you’d better do it on the field, too,” Tim Vander Pol, 55, says about a player whom Pro Football Focus ranked as its No. 11 cornerback in 2016 and lists as its No. 40 corner through seven games this season. No other Chiefs cornerback is listed in the top 80."

Peters is 40th ranked corner this year by PFF. Rough year for Chiefs corners.

hometeam
10-26-2017, 09:37 PM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

once again you prove your worth at football takes

OldSchool
10-26-2017, 09:39 PM
“If you’re going to be that big of a man, you’d better do it on the field, too,” Tim Vander Pol, 55, says about a player whom Pro Football Focus ranked as its No. 11 cornerback in 2016 and lists as its No. 40 corner through seven games this season. No other Chiefs cornerback is listed in the top 80."

Peters is 40th ranked corner this year by PFF. Rough year for Chiefs corners.

Yup. The defense as a whole has been terrible. Shit pass defense and shit run defense = shit defense.

The only reason why we're 5-2 is because the offense happens to be one of the best in the league right now despite missing multiple starters of their own (entire interior OL and Conley).

Sandy Vagina
10-26-2017, 09:41 PM
Or achilles.

https://media.giphy.com/media/1MJ7cRuntKE3C/giphy.gif

.. but back to GAINES... I can not fathom that Emmitt Thomas and Co. could not instill any sense of ball/play awareness from him. The athleticism rightly got him drafted relatively early, but holy shit.. just never going to improve in areas much needed. Sad sad shit... and I can not believe DJ, Acker, or some mother****er can not offer more, at this point... :shake:

BigRedChief
10-26-2017, 09:53 PM
Source? Link?
As if we need sources and links to know they suck.we already knew this information. We should have had the exclusive.

KChiefs1
10-26-2017, 10:03 PM
Well duh.

Pasta Little Brioni
10-26-2017, 10:07 PM
And?

All In
10-26-2017, 10:36 PM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

Yep

All In
10-26-2017, 10:38 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/1MJ7cRuntKE3C/giphy.gif

.. but back to GAINES... I can not fathom that Emmitt Thomas and Co. could not instill any sense of ball/play awareness from him. The athleticism rightly got him drafted relatively early, but holy shit.. just never going to improve in areas much needed. Sad sad shit... and I can not believe DJ, Acker, or some mother****er can not offer more, at this point... :shake:

Obviously the chiefs dont see it.

kccrow
10-26-2017, 11:35 PM
Personally, I think the Chiefs should cut Gaines and sign De'Vante Bausby from the Eagles PS (he had a really solid camp). Start Acker and see what happens there. Gaines has just been that bad. He doesn't deserve a roster spot, at all.

DC.chief
10-27-2017, 07:35 AM
Gaines should have been cut the day after the game against the Donks when Manning fucked him in the ass all game. He's been the worst corner in the league since then.

Rausch
10-27-2017, 07:45 AM
Gaines should have been cut the day after the game against the Donks when Manning ****ed him in the ass all game. He's been the worst corner in the league since then.

It seems like he never did recover from that.

And it wasn't even Manning that torched him - it was Semen...

Chiefnj2
10-27-2017, 07:48 AM
KC's DB's are odd in their lack of development. Cooper looked good his first year then fell off a cliff. Mitchell looked good at the end of last year and he has fallen off this year. Something with the coaching?

Rausch
10-27-2017, 08:29 AM
KC's DB's are odd in their lack of development. Cooper looked good his first year then fell off a cliff. Mitchell looked good at the end of last year and he has fallen off this year. Something with the coaching?

Mitchell looked bad this year for two games, then good for two games, now bad again.

That said every secondary looks better with a pass rush and bad without one.

TomBarndtsTwin
10-27-2017, 08:35 AM
Even the best corners will be exposed with the lack of a consistent pass rush. Ours has been MIA.

Mitchell is decent, but, yeah, Gaines sucks . . . . .

cwhocares
10-27-2017, 08:44 AM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Have you even watched any games this year?

TEX
10-27-2017, 08:51 AM
Even the best corners will be exposed with the lack of a consistent pass rush. Ours has been MIA.

Mitchell is decent, but, yeah, Gaines sucks . . . . .

This.
Not even a pass rush could help Gaines. Dude is terrible.

Chiefnj2
10-27-2017, 09:05 AM
Mitchell looked bad this year for two games, then good for two games, now bad again.

That said every secondary looks better with a pass rush and bad without one.

I originally thought he looked poor in the first game because he missed all of preseason with injury. Sadly, his two games of good play look like an aberration at this point in time.

Hopefully he can get it together.

I'm hoping Nelson doesn't come out of the gate too slow.

lcarus
10-27-2017, 09:08 AM
Mitchell seemed ok last season. He seems average at times this season. Not counting the Raiders game where he was abysmal.

Rausch
10-27-2017, 09:09 AM
I originally thought he looked poor in the first game because he missed all of preseason with injury. Sadly, his two games of good play look like an aberration at this point in time.

Hopefully he can get it together.

I'm hoping Nelson doesn't come out of the gate too slow.

No secondary looks good without a pass rush...

ModSocks
10-27-2017, 11:12 AM
When Mitchell gets beat, it's generally by a great back shoulder throw, a comeback route in which he's playing off coverage due to single high, or no safety over the top. When Mitchell gets beat, he still looks like an NFL corner.

When Gaines gets beat it's a goddamn embarrassment. He gets completely turned around, he losses track of the ball. When Gaines gets beat, he gets WHOOPED, and it looks really fucking bad.

The dude drops footballs that get thrown directly at him.

Gaines is the fucking Matt Cassel of CB's.

lcarus
10-27-2017, 12:56 PM
When Mitchell gets beat, it's generally by a great back shoulder throw, a comeback route in which he's playing off coverage due to single high, or no safety over the top. When Mitchell gets beat, he still looks like an NFL corner.

When Gaines gets beat it's a goddamn embarrassment. He gets completely turned around, he losses track of the ball. When Gaines gets beat, he gets WHOOPED, and it looks really fucking bad.

The dude drops footballs that get thrown directly at him.

Gaines is the fucking Matt Cassel of CB's.

Fingers crossed Nelson is back to near 100%.....

MMXcalibur
10-27-2017, 01:29 PM
Gaines is constantly picked on by the opposing QB and looks so goddamn lost when the ball is in the air. He is a liability in coverage and while I know there’s no “quick fix” solution at this time of the year, his play has been so poor that you might as well start a complete newbie and hope for some upside. Gaines has shown us his ceiling and its the hood of a coffin.

The Franchise
10-27-2017, 01:31 PM
When Mitchell gets beat, it's generally by a great back shoulder throw, a comeback route in which he's playing off coverage due to single high, or no safety over the top. When Mitchell gets beat, he still looks like an NFL corner.

When Gaines gets beat it's a goddamn embarrassment. He gets completely turned around, he losses track of the ball. When Gaines gets beat, he gets WHOOPED, and it looks really fucking bad.

The dude drops footballs that get thrown directly at him.

Gaines is the fucking Matt Cassel of CB's.

Don’t say that. No one has paid him $60 million yet.

He’s the Brodie Croyle of CBs.

notorious
10-27-2017, 01:31 PM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

Jesus Christ.

MMXcalibur
10-27-2017, 01:33 PM
This.
Not even a pass rush could help Gaines. Dude is terrible.

And this is also important to note.

That pass rush has as much responsibility for the shitty defense as the secondary. With the offensively skewed rules these days, even the best secondaries can’t cover forever. Why Bob Sutton thinks its OK to send a 3 man rush over and over and over again makes my fucking head hurt. You can count the number of times we’ve blitzed in the past two weeks on my dick.

Fuck everything. I’m going to go punch a small child named Phillip.

ModSocks
10-27-2017, 01:37 PM
I might take heat for this but, I think Gaines is a good corner. He just sucks as the nickel back. He is a different player when he starts on the outside.

LMAO

ModSocks
10-27-2017, 01:42 PM
Gaines is constantly picked on by the opposing QB and looks so goddamn lost when the ball is in the air. He is a liability in coverage and while I know there’s no “quick fix” solution at this time of the year, his play has been so poor that you might as well start a complete newbie and hope for some upside. Gaines has shown us his ceiling and its the hood of a coffin.

It's time for DJ White to shit or get off the pot. If he can't beat out Gaines he may as well get cut too.

Last season when the DB's were struggling they were swapping everyone on the roster into that corner slot opposite Peters. That's how we found Mitchell. I'd be surprised if a change isn't made headed into this Denver game.

It's time to see what DJ White has.

Toad
10-27-2017, 02:59 PM
When Mitchell gets beat, it's generally by a great back shoulder throw, a comeback route in which he's playing off coverage due to single high, or no safety over the top. When Mitchell gets beat, he still looks like an NFL corner.

When Gaines gets beat it's a goddamn embarrassment. He gets completely turned around, he losses track of the ball. When Gaines gets beat, he gets WHOOPED, and it looks really ****ing bad.

The dude drops footballs that get thrown directly at him.

Gaines is the ****ing Matt Cassel of CB's.

Too true. A key lowlight this season so far was Gaines trying to catch that ball with his face in the Steeler game.

Hydrae
10-27-2017, 03:31 PM
Gaines should have been cut the day after the game against the Donks when Manning ****ed him in the ass all game. He's been the worst corner in the league since then.

Didn't the Packers do that to him the game before that? Could be rusty memory but that is what I seem to remember.

Edit:
Never mind, we didn't even play the Packers last year. :sulk:

Easy 6
10-27-2017, 03:37 PM
Its too bad about Phil, he always seemed to lack ball skills, but he was extremely sticky there for a while... guys rarely shook him off, the latest injury really does seem to have stolen something from him

I remember that one play where he was so far up the receivers ass, that the QB doinked a ball right off the back of his helmet... those days look to be gone

ModSocks
10-27-2017, 04:17 PM
the QB doinked a ball right off the back of his helmet... those days look to be gone

No, those days are still here. He's still letting football's doink off his helmet. Remember the Steelers game?

Easy 6
10-27-2017, 04:20 PM
No, those days are still here. He's still letting football's doink off his helmet. Remember the Steelers game?

I see your point, but on the play I referenced he was so close down the left sideline, that he didn't even need to turn his head for the ball... simply being that tight on his guy was enough to kill the play

T-post Tom
10-27-2017, 04:42 PM
memories light the corners of my mind...

http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Football/4261/4261-943288Fr.jpg

https://img.comc.com/i/Football/2005/Topps-Total---Base---Silver/130/Eric-Warfield-William-Bartee.jpg?id=4f68f0dd-3047-46c4-a308-41416bad1067&size=zoom

http://www.rcsportscards.com/uploads/6/0/8/7/6087117/s568872814488652156_p7213_i1_w573.jpeg


http://rs9.pbsrc.com/albums/a83/TAFKADixie/Jerseys/8-9-09017.jpg~c200

http://prod.static.chiefs.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/KC/photos/2011%20Player%20Bio%20Cards/2011%20Bio%20Cards%20-%20Players/arenas.jpg

http://prod.static.chiefs.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/KC/photos/2012-Player-Bio-Cards/Daniels.jpg

https://www.kcchiefsgearshop.com/1454-large_default/Marcus_Cooper_Nike_Kansas_City_Chiefs_No31_Game_Team_Color_Jersey_Red.jpg

https://www.kcchiefsgearshop.com/970/Jamell_Fleming_Nike_Kansas_City_Chiefs_No30_Game_Jersey_White.jpg

SAGA45
10-27-2017, 04:43 PM
I recall Chris Ballard being the one who scouted and pushed hard for Gaines in the draft room. Should see if the Colts have any interest

All In
10-27-2017, 08:43 PM
I recall Chris Ballard being the one who scouted and pushed hard for Gaines in the draft room. Should see if the Colts have any interest

Lets hope so :D

WhiteWhale
10-27-2017, 10:36 PM
Thank goodness Nelson is seems to be coming back.

nkd
10-27-2017, 10:47 PM
Chiefs do need some help, but you also have to take in to account the lack of pressure up front. That may be the reason the secondary is looking worse than it is. For instance take peters it seems he is rated worse than he should be. I just think the lack of pressure and QB having all day to throw in the recent games may be the reason for some of it, or half of it. Corners can only do so much when QB has all day to throw. Chiefs D line needs to find ways to create some pressure, they just aren't the same. May be they will get better as they get healthy but man I have seen QBs have a field day, both Ben and Carr had all day to throw the entire game. It was just sad to watch. When you allow that I highly doubt any corner can hold off receivers for that long.

Hammock Parties
10-27-2017, 10:52 PM
Javier Arenas LMAO

About the only guy who was overrated worse during the Pioli era was McCluster.

ping2000
10-27-2017, 11:04 PM
Gaines is very highly rated by opposing offenses.

WhiteWhale
10-27-2017, 11:47 PM
Chiefs do need some help, but you also have to take in to account the lack of pressure up front. That may be the reason the secondary is looking worse than it is. For instance take peters it seems he is rated worse than he should be. I just think the lack of pressure and QB having all day to throw in the recent games may be the reason for some of it, or half of it. Corners can only do so much when QB has all day to throw. Chiefs D line needs to find ways to create some pressure, they just aren't the same. May be they will get better as they get healthy but man I have seen QBs have a field day, both Ben and Carr had all day to throw the entire game. It was just sad to watch. When you allow that I highly doubt any corner can hold off receivers for that long.

Count when QB's drop back to pass.

The pass rush isn't the problem. It needs to get better, but the fact is that guys are wide open within 2 seconds consistently.

O.city
10-28-2017, 10:39 AM
Count when QB's drop back to pass.

The pass rush isn't the problem. It needs to get better, but the fact is that guys are wide open within 2 seconds consistently.

Yep

I also think they've been slowed by the fact that teams have ran it well vs them. It's hard to really rush the passer when you have to worry about the run

Chiefshrink
10-28-2017, 10:49 AM
I needed to be told that Phillip Gaines is the worst CB in the NFL right now?

Oh wait...no I didn't. At all.

Look - Gaines seems likely a genuinely likeable guy and a hard worker. I hate that injuries have derailed him because he really did look like a long-term solid #2 CB in his 2nd year. But right now, he's just absolutely awful. I don't see the initial burst he used to have when he looked like a better version of Trae Waynes taken 2 rounds later. The dude had athleticism in spades and you couldn't really roast him because he'd catch up.

But now that the first step speed has seemingly vanished, he's feeling for everything and guessing (poorly). Whether he's physically capable of reading/reacting to a receiver isn't all that relevant because it's clear that he doesn't think he is. So he's trying to guess what a guy's doing instead of feeling/sensing it and more often than not he's guessing poorly and suddenly there's a whole lot of space around the guy he was covering.

His confidence is shot. And there are 2 possibilities here - it's shot because it SHOULD be and he's simply physically incapable of being the player we thought he would be. Or it's shot because he's convinced himself that he's not physically capable of being the player we thought he would be.

In either event, you can't have the guy on the field right now. He's the guess hitter that's going to swing through the slider in the dirt every time because he thinks (rightly or wrongly) that he needs to cheat ahead to catch up to the fastball.

And this is his walk year so if he needs a change of scenery and a new staff to clear his head and convince him that he still has the physical tools he once had, so be it. There's every bit as good a chance that those physical tools are gone though. It sucks, but it's football. In either event, it's really time for the Chiefs to move on from him, IMO.

You nailed it !! Confidence effects "EVERYTHING" !!;)

Chiefshrink
10-28-2017, 11:07 AM
Count when QB's drop back to pass.

The pass rush isn't the problem. It needs to get better, but the fact is that guys are wide open within 2 seconds consistently.

You are correct the pass rush does need to get better, but our CBs do not have what I call "great instinctive dancing partner skills"(anticipating the route or the next steps the WR will make). It seems all of our CBs including "ungrateful kneeling boy":D are always a step or two behind allowing for much space and an easy completion.

And then in the red zone as a CB you have to revert to what I call playing good basketball defense keeping yourself between the ball and the QB without face guarding keeping your eye on the ball/QB while following the WR. What infuriates me is how many times the fade is thrown in the corner of the end zone "can be easily picked off" but is not because the DB does not have the sense enough, instinct or confidence to just turn around and pick it. The WRs eyes and hands/body language tells you when the ball is upon both of you. Read the body of the WR, turn around and PICK IT !!:#

The body language in the red zone "never lies" !!!

ChiefAshhole1056
10-28-2017, 11:35 AM
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a pretty solid cover 3 outside CB. He still has good straight line speed and length to play the boundaries and sidelines sufficiently without worrying about having to follow and mirror the receiver like he’s been struggling with in man. Would be shocked if Seattle didn’t reach out for him once he his the market.

All In
10-28-2017, 12:18 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a pretty solid cover 3 outside CB. He still has good straight line speed and length to play the boundaries and sidelines sufficiently without worrying about having to follow and mirror the receiver like he’s been struggling with in man. Would be shocked if Seattle didn’t reach out for him once he his the market.

I only want him to be happy and successful. He will do great where ever he lands.

Hammock Parties
10-28-2017, 12:20 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a pretty solid cover 3 outside CB. He still has good straight line speed and length to play the boundaries and sidelines sufficiently without worrying about having to follow and mirror the receiver like he’s been struggling with in man. Would be shocked if Seattle didn’t reach out for him once he his the market.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/689ffae7bb6ae1c87c144054f3a15f4d/tumblr_mx0ep7LLGz1sq0upuo1_400.gif

Easy 6
10-28-2017, 12:20 PM
I only want him to be happy and successful. He will do great where ever he lands.

Be honest, you're his dad or some other close relative, right?

beach tribe
10-28-2017, 12:31 PM
He's Marcus Cooper #2

Actually, it looks like Mitchell is Cooper #2.

Some people were absolutely sold on the guy, and he has been a steaming pile ever since teams have had film on him.

Easy 6
10-28-2017, 02:55 PM
Be honest, you're his dad or some other close relative, right?

Thanks for your service. I remember those inspections but only in basic training. 24 year AF retiree here.

http://www.chiefsdigest.com/military-family-lifestyle-helped-shape-chiefs-rookie-cb-phillip-gaines/

Hey Bill out there in Arizona, I hope your kid kicks some ass for us Monday, wish him good luck from ChiefsPlanet :thumb:

All In
10-28-2017, 03:32 PM
Bill doesnt live in AZ. So no....lol

Easy 6
10-28-2017, 03:36 PM
Bill doesnt live in AZ. So no....lol

Then you're his brother, William

Easy 6
10-28-2017, 03:57 PM
But unless William also went for a 24 year Air Force career, you would have to be... :hmmm:... hi Mom!

Don't let us run you off, we're often pretty brutal in our assessments of all our guys... but its only because we love this team so much