Kareem Hunt...nonexistent

[RunKC]

What the hell happened to this guy?

Last 4 games:

58 carries
191 rush yards
3.3 YPC

Hasn't scored a TD in 6 games

[KCUnited]

Uh, the league got tape.

[mnchiefsguy]

He only had nine carries I think......gotta give the rock if he is gonna do anything.

[Rasputin]

Needs more carries. His first game he got better as the game rolled on. Hunt is a second half player but you have to feed him the ball.

[Sandy Vagina]

Yep.. Can't win in the trenches.. yet still 6-3.. amazing, that is. Andy Reid gives up on the run.. and it's hard to blame him. Hunt had one nice run.. which masks the rest.. which was putrid.

Not blaming the RB. This OL is a total fail.. healthy or not.

[carcosa]

No carries, no run blocking. Andy Reid is clueless. Etc.

[Red Dawg]

I think Hunt is a stud but his OL is crap. These guys cant block for shit and have no desire to put someon on their ass. They are nice and in football that doesnt win and LOS. You need tough and bad attitude to win

[Rasputin]

Uh, the league got tape.

So we have tape on Eliot or L Bell but that doesn't seem to stop them.

[stevieray]

this is the first time in how many weeks with the starting oline back?


"I think KC will be fine, this a good football team."

[KCUnited]

So we have tape on Eliot or L Bell but that doesn't seem to stop them.

We’re the Chiefs tho.

[chiefzilla1501]

I haven't seen anything from hunt that leads me to believe he's doing anything wrong. He's doing what he can with what he's given. Still plays like a stud I dont care what the numbers say.

[Easy 6]

Combination of a heavily used rookie struggling under the full season rigors of the NFL... and a super weak sauce OL not knocking anyone out of the way

[notorious]

Stop KHunt, stop the Chiefs.


Simple

[St. Patty's Fire]

He's still a rookie and the o line has been atrocious.

[KranzDictum]

The lanes are not nearly as big as they were in the 1st couple games. I think teams took him for granted because he was a rook. Now that they are reading run 1st and making alix beat them his stats and coveted YPC has taken a dump.

[PunkinDrublic]

this is the first time in how many weeks with the starting oline back?


"I think KC will be fine, this a good football team."

This. The lines not 100% healthy. I can’t think of another time we needed a bye week so badly.

[FringeNC]

Needs more carries. His first game he got better as the game rolled on. Hunt is a second half player but you have to feed him the ball.

He needs fewer carries early in the game so that we can actually get some first downs and wear down the defense.

[Rasputin]

First down pass incomplete second down false start and another pass play third down pass fourth down punt.


That was typical Chiefs drive. A bunch of check downs but we never tried to establish the run.

Second half Dallas had three down lineman we should have been calling run plays even with 7 minutes left we had time to get points and the ball back.

[FringeNC]

First down pass incomplete second down false start and another pass play third down pass fourth down punt.


That was typical Chiefs drive. A bunch of check downs but we never tried to establish the run.

Second half Dallas had three down lineman we should have been calling run plays even with 7 minutes left we had time to get points and the ball back.

You can't establish the run if you don't get first down and run a lot of plays. It's not rocket science.

[jaa1025]

It all has to do with our shit oline play.

[Dartgod]

this is the first time in how many weeks with the starting oline back?


"I think KC will be fine, this a good football team."

Good, yes. Great? ummm, no.

Until we fix our OL and defense, we'll never be good enough.

[PunkinDrublic]

Good, yes. Great? ummm, no.

Until we fix our OL and defense, we'll never be good enough.

I don’t think any team in the AFC is great. You do have teams like the Steelers who provide bad matchups though.

[PutQuinnIn]

Rookie hit the WALL.

[lcarus]

We couldn't move the chains and we couldn't stop them from moving the chains. Our run blocking is total shit.

[KCUnited]

Spinal tumor

[Dartgod]

I don’t think any team in the AFC is great. You do have teams like the Steelers who provide bad matchups though.

I meant great in terms of being capable of winning a championship.

[Rasputin]

You can't establish the run if you don't get first down and run a lot of plays. It's not rocket science.

Ok smart guy but they aren't running on first down or second down or third down. Incomplete passes or short of the sticks don't result in first downs so at some point running the ball is the way you establish the run. Not passing on first down not passing on second down but run the damn ball and bully the defense. Yes our oline is sucking balls right now maybe we are incapable of doing much more but I've seen Hunt build on himself as the game goes by feeding him the ball. It worked the first few weeks but we have gone away from that.

You cannot establish the run if you don't run the ball.

[KCrockaholic]

The poor guy never has anywhere to run. This OL is back to 2016/2015 of run blocking. Week 1 OL was a mirage.

[Ming the Merciless]

The drive where he was running well, we were unstoppable

Problem is...penalties, long yardage situations made us seem helpless

When he wasn't a factor, we seemed pathetic

[PunkinDrublic]

I meant great in terms of being capable of winning a championship.

Defense no because the linebackers are old. I think the health of the offensive line is the problem on offense.

[jspchief]

Needs more carries. His first game he got better as the game rolled on. Hunt is a second half player but you have to feed him the ball.Reid will never figure this out.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There has never been any back nor team in league history that broke off 60-80 yard runs/receptions every game. You overrated him based on an extremely small sample size.

He's still a good player, but he's not going to be the best back in the league, ever. He'll be a perfectly reasonable starter though.

[gold_and_red]

Andy should game plan to go pass heavy (even by his standards) from the very first play. Ds are keying in on Hunt and they consistently get the O in 3rd and long. We start very slow and by the time we get any rhythm it is already the 3rd quarter. Our pass blocking OL is not bad at all, just no half a**ing it with runs into brick walls.
Also some established WRs would help, the passing game just looks too tight.

[BigRedChief]

All you X's and O's guys help me out here. Has Hunt changed? Is he not hitting the hole right? Following blockers? Is there an answer?

[PunkinDrublic]

There has never been any back nor team in league history that broke off 60-80 yard runs/receptions every game. You overrated him based on an extremely small sample size.

He's still a good player, but he's not going to be the best back in the league, ever. He'll be a perfectly reasonable starter though.

We’ve been spoiled by having so many great running backs over the years. People are going to set crazy expectations and say dumb shit.

[Hammock Parties]

Is there an answer?

Yeah...stop over-relying on RBs as the driving force on your team. That approach hasn't gotten the Chiefs anywhere with four elite running backs in the last 16 years.

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/60/66/53/12806911/3/920x920.jpg

[Rasputin]

There has never been any back nor team in league history that broke off 60-80 yard runs/receptions every game. You overrated him based on an extremely small sample size.

He's still a good player, but he's not going to be the best back in the league, ever. He'll be a perfectly reasonable starter though.

He's got a hell of a career ahead of him but one he can't do it all and two we need him to do more than what Reid gave him opportunity to do today.

There has to be a balance act and we are not getting it. Run and pass balance that would help Hill out and the run game and be able to attack defenses. Teams may fear Tyreek Hill but they don't respect Alex Smith long ball and so they key on Hunt.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

All you X's and O's guys help me out here. Has Hunt changed? Is he not hitting the hole right? Following blockers? Is there an answer?

You know the answer. If Randal Grichuk hits five bombs in three games has he turned a corner or did he just have a hot streak?

[BryanBusby]

All you X's and O's guys help me out here. Has Hunt changed? Is he not hitting the hole right? Following blockers? Is there an answer?
Line getting pushed back now

[BigRedChief]

You know the answer. If Randal Grichuk hits five bombs in three games has he turned a corner or did he just have a hot streak?I get the mean argument and makes sense to me.

Their are better RB's than others but their performance is based largely on blocking and play calls.

Are you saying the blocking and play calls are fine?

[Iconic]

It's not shocking that running at 8 defenders doesn’t work.

[Priest31kc]

He had absolutely no running room at all against Pittsburgh or Denver. Had some vs Oakland and produced...and only 9 carries today.

Im not worried about Kareem, Im worried about the run blocking returning to last year's form giving him zero room to run. And of course teams stacking the box daring Alex to beat them and he just cant consistently.

[Hoover]

Yeah, nine carries, and a swear six came in the first two drives where we basically lined up and said hey we are going to run straight at you.

The play calling sucks. A little play action early in games to lossen up the defense would be nice. No creativity in this game or the Steelers game.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I get the mean argument and makes sense to me.

Their are better RB's than others but their performance is based largely on blocking and play calls.

Are you saying the blocking and play calls are fine?

O-Line isn't giving him huge holes, but you can't control whether or not the defense blows assignments or over commits.

[dls6501]

What the hell happened to this guy?

Last 4 games:

58 carries
191 rush yards
3.3 YPC

Hasn't scored a TD in 6 games

The bolded is the problem, not anything else you typed.

[Bwana]

A RB needs a hole to run through and those have been a bit sparse with this OL.

[DaneMcCloud]

The offensive line has rarely been completely healthy this season and today, LDT and especially Schwartz, had the yips.

It hasn’t helped that the Chiefs lost Conley, either, and while I can’t believe I’m saying this, the offense isn’t as effective without Albert Wilson.

I expect Hunt to have more opportunities after the Bye, as it gives the lineman a chance to get healthy and back in sync.

[JohnnyV13]

Part of it is that once the Chiefs figured out how to run against the Cowboys, they had gotten down 21-17. The next series, KC shot itself in the foot with penalties. Dallas went up 28-17.

That took 2nd half Hunt out of the game.

[scho63]

Andy Reid is the new herpes

[RunKC]

Seth Keysor
@RealMNchiefsfan
Kareem Hunt 1st drive of the 2nd half: 3 carries for 29 yards. Didn't see another carry the rest of the game. That's less than ideal.
6:59 PM · Nov 6, 2017

Last carry was with 9:51 left in the 3rd Q. Goddamnit Andy. ****ing hell fat man.

[BryanBusby]

Well people did insist that Andy use him less. He listened LMAO

[gold_and_red]

Seth Keysor
@RealMNchiefsfan
Kareem Hunt 1st drive of the 2nd half: 3 carries for 29 yards. Didn't see another carry the rest of the game. That's less than ideal.
6:59 PM · Nov 6, 2017

Last carry was with 9:51 left in the 3rd Q. Goddamnit Andy. ****ing hell fat man.

Looks like we have to win inspite of Reid. Hasn’t he repeatedly said that Hunt gets stronger in the 4th quarter? 21-17 we panicked and abandoned the run, simple as that.

[Sandy Vagina]

Part of it is that once the Chiefs figured out how to run against the Cowboys, they had gotten down 21-17. The next series, KC shot itself in the foot with penalties. Dallas went up 28-17.

That took 2nd half Hunt out of the game.

... but... but.. how could that TD drive have occurred? Unpossible?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

We'll be 13-3 or 12-4 when it's all over, with or without Hunt.

[Chiefshrink]

It is a lack of "road grading ability" when needed regardless of who we have in there. We do not have physical o-linemen who can throw d-lines aside when needed like Dallas' o-line did us especially at the end of the game.

We haven't had a "mauling o-line" since 05. The beauty of our o-lines in the early to mid 90's and from 02-05 was that regardless of defenses stacking the box against us we still ran at will successfully while chewing up the clock to win. We can't do that now.

Once KH's talent was legitimized after the first few games, very physical talented defenses like PITT,DENVER and DALLAS keyed in on KH knowing they would not have to stack the box because our o-line cannot "smash mouth run block" at will. Thus can afford to set back in zone and throw us around like a rag doll keying on KH. However, if we had "road grading capability" in our o-line then it would force these talented defenses to stack the box and play more man to man that would play into our offense's hands.

And please spare me the argument of finesse vs brute strength because you can have both if you build it that way because we had that from 02-05, very athletic but very physical as well.

[kgrund]

Part of it is that once the Chiefs figured out how to run against the Cowboys, they had gotten down 21-17. The next series, KC shot itself in the foot with penalties. Dallas went up 28-17.

That took 2nd half Hunt out of the game.

Well said

[gold_and_red]

It is a lack of "road grading ability" when needed regardless of who we have in there. We do not have physical o-linemen who can throw d-lines aside when needed like Dallas' o-line did us especially at the end of the game.

We haven't had a "mauling o-line" since 05. The beauty of our o-lines in the early to mid 90's and from 02-05 was that regardless of defenses stacking the box against us we still ran at will successfully while chewing up the clock to win. We can't do that now.

Once KH's talent was legitimized after the first few games, very physical talented defenses like PITT,DENVER and DALLAS keyed in on KH knowing they would not have to stack the box because our o-line cannot "smash mouth run block" at will. Thus can afford to set back in zone and throw us around like a rag doll keying on KH. However, if we had "road grading capability" in our o-line then it would force these talented defenses to stack the box and play more man to man that would play into our offense's hands.

And please spare me the argument of finesse vs brute strength because you can have both if you build it that way because we had that from 02-05, very athletic but very physical as well.

Like I have been parroting in other threads just game plan to be pass heavy and spread the action out to beyond 15 yards past the LoS. What does Brady do to Pittsburgh every time? His OL is not exactly smashmouth.
But like some others have pointed out here it looks like Pitt's coverage schemes confuse Smith, he overthinks the play. In the 4th quarter when the OL was pass blocking well it looked like Robinson would score on every play. He needs to play with that mindset from snap #1 and it is upto Reid to ensure that with preparation and scheming.

[Sandy Vagina]

Historically speaking, the NYG have also been a defense that ****s Alex up..

I dunno who they have or have at DC.. just saying.. If you do have a 4 man line that gets pressure on 5 OL? (which with KC they will i mean c'mon)..

Not a good feeling... even weeks away... :(

[PAChiefsGuy]

Historically speaking, the NYG have also been a defense that ****s Alex up..

I dunno who they have or have at DC.. just saying.. If you do have a 4 man line that gets pressure on 5 OL? (which with KC they will i mean c'mon)..

Not a good feeling... even weeks away... :(

The Giants are horrible. There is nothing to worry about.

I mean it's the NFL every team is decent even the bad ones but I am not worried about the G-Men at all. Sleep well the game will be a blowout.

[Sandy Vagina]

The Giants are horrible. There is nothing to worry about.

I mean it's the NFL every team is decent even the bad ones but I am not worried about the G-Men at all. Sleep well the game will be a blowout.

Won't lose sleep when I think of this game. There ARE no easy games, when your defense and run game is terrible. Not one game will they play the rest of the year.. will I think no problem.. they got this...

[PAChiefsGuy]

Won't lose sleep when I think of this game. There ARE no easy games, when your defense and run game is terrible. Not one game will they play the rest of the year.. will I think no problem.. they got this...

Every game is tough but with the bye week we'll blow them out. Giants are really really bad and they have pretty much given up on their HC. We'll win.

[Sandy Vagina]

Every game is tough but with the bye week we'll blow them out. Giants are really really bad and they have pretty much given up on their HC. We'll win.

Nope. Will not budge, good sir. Our team is shit so far on defense.. and pretty shit on OL play.

That alone denies any comfort on wins... no matter who the opponent may be.

:harumph: ... more power to ya, if you keep the confidence in team. I choose.. nope. SHOW ME.

https://media.tenor.co/images/a00dcb9ae4c287833a946369df598e8e/raw

[nkd]

I think the team will be better after the bye week. The O-line seems tired. Alex seems under constant pressure and I haven't seen him get clean pocket. On top their last 3 out of 4 games have been against some legit front 7. That probably just makes it that much worst. Good thing they have bye week.

[nkd]

Part of it is that once the Chiefs figured out how to run against the Cowboys, they had gotten down 21-17. The next series, KC shot itself in the foot with penalties. Dallas went up 28-17.

That took 2nd half Hunt out of the game.

Well the defense doesn't help either when they cant get off the field with them time killing drives.

[Chiefshrink]

Well the defense doesn't help either when they cant get off the field with them time killing drives.

because our "trench players" on both sides of the ball get tossed around like rag dolls.

[RunKC]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/1yxky6"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/1yxky6.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

By the time Kareem gets the ball, there's 2 Cowboys 3 yards deep in the backfield.

[thegame214]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/1yxky6"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/1yxky6.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

By the time Kareem gets the ball, there's 2 Cowboys 3 yards deep in the backfield.

Our play action is also nonexistent.

[jonzie04]

The td thing has to do with Andy/Nagy feeling like they have to scene or run trickery in EVERY goal line situation. If Kareem doesn't run in a long td his goal line opportunities are limited.

His rushing yards and ypc can be chalked up to blocking and scheme. For the past several games Kareem can't even make it to the line of scrimmage before he has to force a missed tackle.

[thegame214]

The td thing has to do with Andy/Nagy feeling like they have to scene or run trickery in EVERY goal line situation. If Kareem doesn't run in a long td his goal line opportunities are limited.

His rushing yards and ypc can be chalked up to blocking and scheme. For the past several games Kareem can't even make it to the line of scrimmage before he has to force a missed tackle.

Defenses begging to throw it deep . They're not scared even remotely of getting beat.

[Chiefnj2]

Well the defense doesn't help either when they cant get off the field with them time killing drives.

The offense doesn't help when its first 3 drives result in about 18 total yards.

[The Franchise]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kareem Hunt played 54% of the Chiefs&#39; snaps yesterday, the lowest snap rate of his entire season.</p>&mdash; JJ Zachariason (@LateRoundQB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LateRoundQB/status/927533205309321216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Eleazar]

Hunt was making his bones when the Chiefs o-line was playing better, and when we were playing with leads such that Andy spent long stretches of games in ultra-conservative mode.

[Sandy Vagina]

There are some stats to back up Morse’s assertion that the line needs to be better. Since the first five games, when the Chiefs started 5-0 and averaged 156 rushing yards per game by clearing large swaths of ground for stud rookie Kareem Hunt, they have struggled to run the ball consistently, averaging only 67 yards in their last four contests and losing three of those games.

“Yesterday we didn’t run near as well as we should’ve,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid said. “They were doing some things to try to stop that, but even with that you should still be effective. You can’t go backwards running the football.”

“We’ve got to go out and we’ve got to function,” Reid said. “We’ve got to win those individual battles out there and we’re not getting that part done.”
.

“It’s on us,” Morse said, “and we’ll take care of it.”


http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article183114801.html

[ModSocks]

I think the team will be better after the bye week. The O-line seems tired. Alex seems under constant pressure and I haven't seen him get clean pocket. On top their last 3 out of 4 games have been against some legit front 7. That probably just makes it that much worst. Good thing they have bye week.

O-line was pass protecting pretty damn well against Dallas. Certainly had clean pockets on several occasions. NFL clean, at least.

[Easy 6]

Hunts running into two walls right now

1) the heavily used rookie endurance wall

2) the literal wall of defenders our line cant do shit about

[Shields68]

On the positive side our schedule to date has been pretty tough. Think all of the non conference teams were .500 or better except for Houston. Houston was very dangerous when we played them. Ne, Phil and Pitt are probably right at the top to win the whole thing.

The second half the non conference Buffalo, Miami, Jets and Giants really should not put a lot of fear into a team. Having the Chargers and Raiders at home should make a touchdown favorite in those two games and the Broncos will not be playing for anything the last game of the season. So yeah he should hopefully pick it up, if not probably should go with West and look to throw every down come playoff time.

[jspchief]

And on one of those runs he was one broken tackle away from going a long way.


Hunt isn't Charles. 13 carries per game isn't going to allow him to make an impact. Like bad clock management, not committing to the run is one of Andy's shortcomings.

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[ModSocks]

Hunt isn't Charles. 13 carries per game isn't going to allow him to make an impact. Like bad clock management, not committing to the run is one of Andy's shortcomings.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Remember the, "Are we running Hunt too much" thread from a few weeks ago?

Fans' opinions change so much from week to week. Fickle, i believe, is the word most often used.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Remember the, "Are we running Hunt too much" thread from a few weeks ago?

Fans' opinions change so much from week to week. Fickle, i believe, is the word most often used.

Yep. Fans love to use hindsight... You never heard any complaints about Sutton after that Steelers playoff loss. It was all Alex Smith's fault. The defense/Sutton was great all season and carried the team was all I heard before the season started this year. Now the defense sucks and Sutton needs to be fired halfway into the season...

Got to love it.

[jspchief]

Remember the, "Are we running Hunt too much" thread from a few weeks ago?

Fans' opinions change so much from week to week. Fickle, i believe, is the word most often used.I don't remember that thread. But "fans" aren't a single hive mind. Unless you're seeing people specifically contradicting themselves, I'm not sure it's relevant.p

My personal opinion is that Hunt's running style may expose him to more injury possibilities. I still believe a balanced offense is important and 20+ rushes should be standard

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[cooper barrett]

There has never been any back nor team in league history that broke off 60-80 yard runs/receptions every game. You overrated him based on an extremely small sample size.

I have been saying this about Alex11 first 3 days set his averages up, now their tanking back to something better than Alex 16 , 15, 14, 13. The difference is we only allowed 17PPG back then.

He's still a good player, but he's not going to be the best back in the league, ever. He'll be a perfectly reasonable starter though.

Don't underestimate him with an OL and Smith throwing 350-400Yds; Hunt would be dangerous to any team.

[jspchief]

Yep. Fans love to use hindsight... You never heard any complaints about Sutton after that Steelers playoff loss. It was all Alex Smith's fault. The defense/Sutton was great all season and carried the team was all I heard before the season started this year. Now the defense sucks and Sutton needs to be fired halfway into the season...

Got to love it.Bullshit.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[ARROW2]

Must throw to open up the running when the line is stacked. thought that was common knowledge but apparently not on CP. Also thought that a decline of 10 ppg from the offense and only an increase of 2 ppg from the defense in the last 4 games would open some eyes. I guess not. the offense is hot gahbage right now because of ALEXIS!

[cooper barrett]

we are missing a bad ass "make tunnels out of cracks of daylight" running back. You know we needed to get A. Peterson instead of AZ. Someone like him would break things open.

It is a lack of "road grading ability" when needed regardless of who we have in there. We do not have physical o-linemen who can throw d-lines aside when needed like Dallas' o-line did us especially at the end of the game.

We haven't had a "mauling o-line" since 05. The beauty of our o-lines in the early to mid 90's and from 02-05 was that regardless of defenses stacking the box against us we still ran at will successfully while chewing up the clock to win. We can't do that now.

Once KH's talent was legitimized after the first few games, very physical talented defenses like PITT,DENVER and DALLAS keyed in on KH knowing they would not have to stack the box because our o-line cannot "smash mouth run block" at will. Thus can afford to set back in zone and throw us around like a rag doll keying on KH. However, if we had "road grading capability" in our o-line then it would force these talented defenses to stack the box and play more man to man that would play into our offense's hands.

And please spare me the argument of finesse vs brute strength because you can have both if you build it that way because we had that from 02-05, very athletic but very physical as well.

[Shields68]

And on one of those runs he was one broken tackle away from going a long way.


Hunt isn't Charles. 13 carries per game isn't going to allow him to make an impact. Like bad clock management, not committing to the run is one of Andy's shortcomings.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Just not going to get the carries if you go 3 and out most of the time and the carries are getting you into long yardage.

Romo was probably right the Cowboys in the first half out schemed the Chiefs by making it look like the Chiefs needed to run it to a specific area and then slanting the line hard to that area.

[Sandy Vagina]

Hunts running into two walls right now

1) the heavily used rookie endurance wall

2) the literal wall of defenders our line cant do shit about

If you had to put a % on it.. how much do you think is the OL.. and how much is it that defenses are starting to predict and diagnose our plays pre-snap?

Anyone have thoughts on that?

[Chiefshrink]

O-line was pass protecting pretty damn well against Dallas. Certainly had clean pockets on several occasions. NFL clean, at least.

Schwartz got owned all day by Lawrence and by the end of the game Schwartz actually false started because you could see he was intimidated. Just saying.

[Easy 6]

If you had to put a % on it.. how much do you think is the OL.. and how much is it that defenses are starting to predict and diagnose our plays pre-snap?

Anyone have thoughts on that?

Trying to put a percentage on it is pointless, but the offense as a whole has clearly regressed

Musical chairs O line finally caught up to us, even with rusty LDT back

Smith starting to manager up again because of that, reverting back to his comfortable default mode

Reids propensity for becoming inexplicably predictable at the worst times, after extended fits of sheer genius is well documented

Its on every member of that staff and team

[Chiefshrink]

Trying to put a percentage on it is pointless, but the offense as a whole has clearly regressed

Musical chairs O line finally caught up to us, even with rusty LDT back

Smith starting to manager up again because of that, reverting back to his comfortable default mode

Reids propensity for becoming inexplicably predictable at the worst times, after extended fits of sheer genius is well documented

Its on every member of that staff and team

You really saw this big time in the Denver game, where as soon as the TH HB pass failed, Andy's butt puckered up i.e. to the play calling from that point on.

[srvy]

I dont take SI anymore did he make a cover or anything.

Lot of things injuries at o line and wideout teams have decided to stop the run first and play tight coverage make Alex beat you over the top.

[The Franchise]

Trying to put a percentage on it is pointless, but the offense as a whole has clearly regressed

Musical chairs O line finally caught up to us, even with rusty LDT back

Smith starting to manager up again because of that, reverting back to his comfortable default mode

Reids propensity for becoming inexplicably predictable at the worst times, after extended fits of sheer genius is well documented

Its on every member of that staff and team

Butker is the only one keeping himself out of this shitstorm.

[Easy 6]

Butker is the only one keeping himself out of this shitstorm.

Toub really had an ace up his sleeve there, kid is like the new Seabass

[Ragged Robin]

I think he does better running power but the line is full of little girls that get destroyed off the snap. Not sure how they got so bad all of a sudden even with Morse & Tardif in there. There seems to be room when they run the stretch but he's not patient enough or has the vision to find the cutback.

[Eleazar]

Yep. Fans love to use hindsight... You never heard any complaints about Sutton after that Steelers playoff loss. It was all Alex Smith's fault. The defense/Sutton was great all season and carried the team was all I heard before the season started this year. Now the defense sucks and Sutton needs to be fired halfway into the season...

Got to love it.

No, the defense sucked back then too.

[cooper barrett]

No, the defense sucked back then too.

We were not killing them PPG last year were 19PPG (Which was #6) sure beats 23PPG today in 2016 (2014-15 low 17's)

In 2012 we were 26.6PPG scored on us

We could be a lot worse and hopefully we get back some key people, a refreshed team, and some new "schemes" in place wouldn't hurt from Sutton.

[suzzer99]

That run in OT yesterday that got called back on the bogus penalty was amazing. This kid is good and he's gonna be great. Period.

[bigjosh]

Take out one horrible game against one of the best run defenses in the league (denver) and he is still averaging over 4YPC in those other 4 games.

It doesnt help that he only had 9 carries against PIT and 9 carries against DAL.

[dls6501]

Yep. Fans love to use hindsight... You never heard any complaints about Sutton after that Steelers playoff loss. It was all Alex Smith's fault. The defense/Sutton was great all season and carried the team was all I heard before the season started this year. Now the defense sucks and Sutton needs to be fired halfway into the season...

Got to love it.

Agreed with the bolded.

[bigjosh]

Agreed with the bolded.

ROFL

[RobBlake]

Running game is equally as bad as passing

[chiefzilla1501]

If you had to put a % on it.. how much do you think is the OL.. and how much is it that defenses are starting to predict and diagnose our plays pre-snap?

Anyone have thoughts on that?

Alex Smith is struggling to beat basic zone coverage. That is by a mile the biggest issue. The OL improves when Alex Smith gets rid of the ball faster and finds the hot read. The offense becomes much less predictable when we aren't constantly checking down. The run game improves dramatically when you stretch the defense a little bit.

[Chiefnj2]

Andy has never committed to the run. That's part of the problem.
30 mph winds and Hunt had like 4 carries in the first half.

His best run of the day was called back because of a penalty. I don't know why Reid isn't getting more blame for the overall lack of discipline.

And, they keep putting West in the game in critical situations. Hunt has big play ability but they send him to the bench.

[Chiefshrink]

What the hell happened to this guy?

Last 4 games:

58 carries
191 rush yards
3.3 YPC

Hasn't scored a TD in 6 games

Bad QB play.

When the defense can totally focus on KH and not worry about AS going downfield because they know AS can't throw or won't throw in tight windows then it makes it pretty easy to shut down the run game. And also our o-line does not have the ability to road grade when needed(when defenses stack the box).

[Red Dawg]

QB drives the train. Smith ignores WRs and never gets them in the flow of the game. If he was actually a capable QB he would be able to loosen up a defense but he isn't capable. He fails to look in the right place and even when he does he fails to pull the trigger to many times. He affects the offense including the running game.

[mcaj22]

This offensive line is garbage when facing big huge front 7s that get after you with just punching you in the face.

I was at the game and the Giants are terrible but one of their biggest investments is their D-Line (Snacks, JPP, Vernon, etc). They are stout up front just like the Steelers and this offensive line can't handle guys that just bullrush you all game.

I have never seen a LT in football get that much help on the blindside like Fisher did against the Giants. I couldnt believe how many times Kelce lines up on the LT's side or they BROUGHT AN EXTRA LINEMAN IN and had to declare him as an eligible receiver just to sit him next to Fisher and help Fisher stop Vernon.

The Chiefs basically admitted defeat before the game even started that the 1 on 1 matchup between Fisher and Vernon was something they needed to plan and help him with with Kelce chipping or an extra lineman.

I couldn't believe how many double teams and all the resources that went into stopping Vernon. It made me realize how important having a good premier LT is.

[Molitoth]

Yep. Fans love to use hindsight... You never heard any complaints about Sutton after that Steelers playoff loss. It was all Alex Smith's fault. The defense/Sutton was great all season and carried the team was all I heard before the season started this year. Now the defense sucks and Sutton needs to be fired halfway into the season...

Got to love it.

Any competitive results are based on adjustments (or lack there of...)
Video games, Football, LIFE, etc...

If you don't adjust to your opponents, they will adjust to you... making you a loser with excuses.

It's ****ing simple dude. Sutton doesn't adjust.
Alex Smith is just shitty at his job.

[Hydrae]

I have been wondering if some of this may be related to trying extend Hunt's stamina later into the season in an attempt to keep him from the "rookie wall".

But then again, it could just be Andy and his lack of ability to properly use a stud RB (see Charles the last few years under Andy).

[TambaBerry]

I have been wondering if some of this may be related to trying extend Hunt's stamina later into the season in an attempt to keep him from the "rookie wall".

But then again, it could just be Andy and his lack of ability to properly use a stud RB (see Charles the last few years under Andy).

nope it is purely for the fact that teams are selling out to stop the run because defenses don't respect Alex

[Molitoth]

I have been wondering if some of this may be related to trying extend Hunt's stamina later into the season in an attempt to keep him from the "rookie wall".

But then again, it could just be Andy and his lack of ability to properly use a stud RB (see Charles the last few years under Andy).


Alex is the type of low risk QB that needs to see his WR's break like 5 yards of being open before he will grab his nuts and throw the ball. (Keep in mind that Alex has been masquerading as a legitimate QB for years due to his LOW INT ratio and riding good defenses coattails). Yes, the 49ers defense was great. Yes, the Chiefs were living off extremely lucky and opportunistic take-aways the last few seasons.

With a team rushing 4 and playing cover 2, Alex will feel phantom pressure and has a bad habit of leaving the pocket. When he does this, his eyes are no longer looking downfield and this is why you see SO MANY gifs of WIDE OPEN Receivers and Alex not even looking near them.

If Alex could have more poise in the pocket, giving these WR's enough time to reach their destination, he may see more success throwing down field.

That said; even with shitty pocket presence, there are still opportunities for a QB to succeed.

Alex leaving the pocket premature still could be an advantage by using his legs to manipulate those zone coverage players into stepping up while the QB tosses it to a WR who is now left uncovered. Alex was doing this the first few games of this season, but for some reason has quit keeping his eyes down field (something Mahomes excels in).

Now, coming back to the quoted text about the run game:

Alex's limitations in the passing game severely cramp the running game because that is the main focus of the opponents defense. Any team that has watched the Chiefs struggle on film knows that you take away the run, study the trick play formations, and force Alex Smith to beat you deep (which he cannot).

I know, I know... real life is not Madden.... but what happens in Madden when you pick a running play, and no matter how awesome your RB is, he still gets creamed in the backfield because the defense knew the predictable play call and picked the perfect defense for it?
This is what is happening to Hunt.

He runs hard and sheds a lot of tackles, but he can't make 4-5 guys miss right as he gets the ball. Only Barry Sanders was good enough to do that. :)

Hunt has NOT hit a "Rookie wall" <-- one of the dumbest things people say.
It's simply that the opponents have figured out a way to stop the Chiefs offense (thanks Steelers) and the Chiefs cannot adjust due to the limitations of Alex Smith.


Ok, nobody will read that or care... but I feel better now.

[Hydrae]

Alex is the type of low risk QB that needs to see his WR's break like 5 yards of being open before he will grab his nuts and throw the ball. (Keep in mind that Alex has been masquerading as a legitimate QB for years due to his LOW INT ratio and riding good defenses coattails). Yes, the 49ers defense was great. Yes, the Chiefs were living off extremely lucky and opportunistic take-aways the last few seasons.

With a team rushing 4 and playing cover 2, Alex will feel phantom pressure and has a bad habit of leaving the pocket. When he does this, his eyes are no longer looking downfield and this is why you see SO MANY gifs of WIDE OPEN Receivers and Alex not even looking near them.

If Alex could have more poise in the pocket, giving these WR's enough time to reach their destination, he may see more success throwing down field.

That said; even with shitty pocket presence, there are still opportunities for a QB to succeed.

Alex leaving the pocket premature still could be an advantage by using his legs to manipulate those zone coverage players into stepping up while the QB tosses it to a WR who is now left uncovered. Alex was doing this the first few games of this season, but for some reason has quit keeping his eyes down field (something Mahomes excels in).

Now, coming back to the quoted text about the run game:

Alex's limitations in the passing game severely cramp the running game because that is the main focus of the opponents defense. Any team that has watched the Chiefs struggle on film knows that you take away the run, study the trick play formations, and force Alex Smith to beat you deep (which he cannot).

I know, I know... real life is not Madden.... but what happens in Madden when you pick a running play, and no matter how awesome your RB is, he still gets creamed in the backfield because the defense knew the predictable play call and picked the perfect defense for it?
This is what is happening to Hunt.

He runs hard and sheds a lot of tackles, but he can't make 4-5 guys miss right as he gets the ball. Only Barry Sanders was good enough to do that. :)

Hunt has NOT hit a "Rookie wall" <-- one of the dumbest things people say.
It's simply that the opponents have figured out a way to stop the Chiefs offense (thanks Steelers) and the Chiefs cannot adjust due to the limitations of Alex Smith.


Ok, nobody will read that or care... but I feel better now.

Thanks for the detailed response (yes, I did read it all!). My point was really more to the low number of running plays that are getting called in general. Hunt was looking pretty good Sunday and they should have fed him the ball much more. He was averaging over 4 YPC and has shown that he, like most RBs, gets stronger as the game goes on. Running him a few more times in the 4th would have provided positive results IMO.

[T-post Tom]

Grunny on 810 had an interesting take. Said the Chiefs are running out of the shotgun too much. He said that if Smith lined up under center more often, the play action fake would slow down opposing defenses and the box wouldn't be stacked as much. Said that the Chiefs aren't fooling anyone when they hand off out of the shotgun. Especially that wrap around hand off. Makes sense. Anyone know what percent of plays have been shotgun vs under center? Haven't seen that stat on any of the free websites.

(BTW, the Giants obviously scouted the shuffle pass to Kelce. Glad he wasn't injured/killed on that play. They need to put that one back on the shelf for a few games.)

[KranzDictum]

Grunny on 810 had an interesting take. Said the Chiefs are running out of the shotgun too much. He said that if Smith lined up under center more often, the play action fake would slow down opposing defenses and the box wouldn't be stacked as much. Said that the Chiefs aren't fooling anyone when they hand off out of the shotgun. Especially that wrap around hand off. Makes sense. Anyone know what percent of plays have been shotgun vs under center? Haven't seen that stat on any of the free websites.

(BTW, the Giants obviously scouted the shuffle pass to Kelce. Glad he wasn't injured/killed on that play. They need to put that one back on the shelf for a few games.)

The Shovel is a gimmick that comes out every 10 years then goes away when teams practice defending it. It didn't help that the Gin'ts were looking for him to run it at the goal line, might have worked early in a drive at the other end of the field but teams know it is coming in the redzone.

If I were Andy I would stop trying the gimmick WR/TE throws. Both times they have tried to run those they have been INT's.

Andy is going to have to go back to his LOS YAC O and try to get Fake Gronk in the seam a couple times a game for chunks.

[T-post Tom]

The Shovel is a gimmick that comes out every 10 years then goes away when teams practice defending it. It didn't help that the Gin'ts were looking for him to run it at the goal line, might have worked early in a drive at the other end of the field but teams know it is coming in the redzone.

If I were Andy I would stop trying the gimmick WR/TE throws. Both times they have tried to run those they have been INT's.

Andy is going to have to go back to his LOS YAC O and try to get Fake Gronk in the seam a couple times a game for chunks.

Agree with those thoughts. I would include throwing over the top to Hill. He's frequently open. Maybe throw some help to the LT on those plays. Fake Gronk. LOL.