Browns' John Dorsey: 'The guys that were here before, they didn't get real players'

[Sassy Squatch]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/browns_john_dorsey_the_guys_th.html

"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''

Damn, bro. Picking up Hue Jackson's tendencies to throw his own players under the bus.

[ptlyon]

Not real QBs making real NFL salaries is the Chiefs way

[Iconic]

Evidence is starting to pile to where I'm starting to believe Dorsey was fired mainly for being a giant asshole lol.

[Dayze]

53 guys off the street.


/obligatory.

[Rausch]

Evidence is starting to pile to where I'm starting to believe Dorsey was fired mainly for being a giant asshole lol.

#He knew where the wrappers fell...

[thegame214]

He is an asshole. I'll never forget the awkward "knucks" him and Clark did on draft day when getting Mahomes.

[L.A. Chieffan]

He's not wrong. You can bring in as many role players as you want, eventually you're going to need actual talent to succeed.

[thegame214]

We need more Keivarie Russell's on this team/Dorsey

[Rausch]

He is an asshole. I'll never forget the awkward "knucks" him and Clark did on draft day when getting Mahomes.

Please explain...

[Hammock Parties]

Browns - Chiefs AFCCG in three seasons.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Please explain...

Once the Mahomes pick went in Dorsey and Hunt had a terrible bro congratulation thing where they werent sure if they should hug or high five or whatver IIRC. Both dudes are obviously socially inept. I think theres a GIF around here somewhere

[Direckshun]

Browns - Chiefs AFCCG in three seasons.

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

[RunKC]

Sam Darnold and Saquon Barkley

Dream scenario for Cleveland

[Marcellus]

Don't see where he is wrong on this.

[Rausch]

Once the Mahomes pick went in Dorsey and Hunt had a terrible bro congratulation thing where they werent sure if they should hug or high five or whatver IIRC. Both dudes are obviously socially inept. I think theres a GIF around here somewhere

Why do I care about their "bro hug" after perhaps the best 1st round pick in 38 years?....

[L.A. Chieffan]

Why do I care about their "bro hug" after perhaps the best 1st round pick in 38 years?....

You dont

[Rausch]

Don't see where he is wrong on this.

White privilidge.

Doesn't matter if we spell it wrong - all that matters is that you question yourself for 10 seconds...

[chiefzilla1501]

Bold statement. But he's right. And I'm guessing Cleveland would embrace a guy who doesn't sugar coat things. They got too cute with their draft picks. Passing on two maybe 3 franchise qbs just to stockpile picks? Drafting tweeners like jabril peppers. Etc... I'm sure more than anything this is a jab at trying to introduce moneyball to the NFL

[Rausch]

You dont


http://media.riffsy.com/images/7528819f1bcc9a212d5c23be19be5bf6/tenor.gif

[BigCatDaddy]

Don't see where he is wrong on this.

Just low class. Insulting the previous GM and players.

[JoeyChuckles]

Don't see where he is wrong on this.

His statement is not incorrect, but where he is wrong is that he will need many of these "unreal players" to produce for him while he rebuilds.

[Quesadilla Joe]

No new info but Breer mentioned something about Dorsey in his column today...

8. Worth doubling back on our story from June on where it all went wrong for new Browns GM John Dorsey in Kansas City. The overarching problem Dorsey had there was in managing a staff and the attendant office politics, which are elements of the job that can be challenging for guys who cut their teeth as on-the-road scouts.https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/14/jerry-jones-roger-goodell-nfl-league-meeting

[loochy]

Just low class. Insulting the previous GM and players.

Then don't suck and you won't be insulted.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rausch]

His statement is not incorrect, but where he is wrong is that he will need many of these "unreal players" to produce for him while he rebuilds.

I absolutely love shrooms.

Hollar back when they wear off...

[beach tribe]

Browns - Chiefs AFCCG in three seasons.

It will be a hell of a challenge, but with all the picks they have, we will see just how good he was.
His problem was mostly contract negotiations.
I'm betting Cleveland is a powerhouse within 3 years like you say.

[Rain Man]

Browns - Chiefs AFCCG in three seasons.

That's the way I see it. The key difference will be that our QB got to learn on the bench his first season, accelerating his growth.

[KChiefs1]

How is he wrong?

He will have them in the Super Bowl before the Chiefs.

[The Franchise]

Sam Darnold and Saquon Barkley

Dream scenario for Cleveland

Trade a 2nd round pick for Smith so you can redshirt Darnold.

[ChiefGator]

He got a little too cute with looking at measurables and drafting huge projects, rather than blue-chippers. Especially when he did that in the first 3 rounds.

I wonder if Veach is jealous that he didn't get to say that kind of thing coming in.

I don't honestly see a Smith-Dorsey reunion. Hunt wanted to win right away.. I don't think Haslam minds wading through a couple bad years first. Not zero-win years, but I don't think there is much fire under Dorsey to win immediately.

[OKchiefs]

It will be a hell of a challenge, but with all the picks they have, we will see just how good he was.
His problem was mostly contract negotiations.
I'm betting Cleveland is a powerhouse within 3 years like you say.

And building an OL

And drafting defense

Not too many problems

[ModSocks]

Quotes like these make me wish the Chiefs never fired him.

[BigCatDaddy]

Then don't suck and you won't be insulted.
Posted via Mobile Device

From a GM that was just fired?

[Marcellus]

Just low class. Insulting the previous GM and players.

True, but Im guessing it was said in context to a specific question.

[Marcellus]

How is he wrong?

He will have them in the Super Bowl before the Chiefs.

Negative, dude.

KC already has their franchise QB.

Cleveland is still looking.

[Rain Man]

It reminds me of Chuck Noll's early team meeting with the Steelers.

"I've been looking at film to see why this team loses so much, and the reason is that most of you aren't very good and won't be here next year."

[loochy]

From a GM that was just fired?

Maybe he should be insulted in return then.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigCatDaddy]

Maybe he should be insulted in return then.
Posted via Mobile Device

Stay tuned....

[TLO]

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

LMAO

They'll still manage to be a bottom feeder in 3 years.

Because they are the Browns.

[RunKC]

Also said Kizer was the 4th QB on our board last year.

[chiefzilla1501]

He got a little too cute with looking at measurables and drafting huge projects, rather than blue-chippers. Especially when he did that in the first 3 rounds.

I wonder if Veach is jealous that he didn't get to say that kind of thing coming in.

I don't honestly see a Smith-Dorsey reunion. Hunt wanted to win right away.. I don't think Haslam minds wading through a couple bad years first. Not zero-win years, but I don't think there is much fire under Dorsey to win immediately.

Smith would be a perfect fit for the browns. An even 8-8 season for them would do wonders for their fans and their players. The browns have had almost 30 starting qbs since 1999 and literally none of them were above terrible. And it isn't for lack of drafting a qb (let that sink in... That is almost 2 new qbs a year)

Haslam doesn't want to be a laughingstock anymore. The browns need a qb who isn't terrible. They desperately need an average season to feel good about. And they should draft a qb, but given that they've already drafted 3 qbs in 10 years (not to mention Kiser), they can't afford to risk another qb busting. They have a bajillion picks to give up. Plus Alex Smith probably only has 2 years left anyway so you can draft a qb in the first and develop him. So many reasons why this would be an outstanding move for the browns.

[Rain Man]

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

I remember the Colts having the #1 and #2 picks one year. They went with Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt.

[Reerun_KC]

Then don't suck and you won't be insulted.
Posted via Mobile Device



But it hurt my feelers.

[Reerun_KC]

He got a little too cute with looking at measurables and drafting huge projects, rather than blue-chippers. Especially when he did that in the first 3 rounds.

I wonder if Veach is jealous that he didn't get to say that kind of thing coming in.

I don't honestly see a Smith-Dorsey reunion. Hunt wanted to win right away.. I don't think Haslam minds wading through a couple bad years first. Not zero-win years, but I don't think there is much fire under Dorsey to win immediately.



What if he only had Red chips and no Blue chips?

[RealSNR]

LMAO

They'll still manage to be a bottom feeder in 3 years.

Because they are the Browns.

If the LA freakin Clippers can make a push for winning the Western Conference like they did the past few years and if the Royals, Cubs, and Astros can win a World Series, the Cleveland Browns can eventually not suck eggs.

Remember, they're not the team with the longest drought of missing the playoffs. That belongs to the Buffalo Bills.

[Bewbies]

I watched my Cubbies win the World Series. I know the Browns will be champs one day.

A Cleveland KC AFC title came is what the NFL needs. :)

[ChiefGator]

What if he only had Red chips and no Blue chips?

Don't get this thread move into DC, man! ;)

[Rain Man]

I watched my Cubbies win the World Series. I know the Browns will be champs one day.

A Cleveland KC AFC title came is what the NFL needs. :)

I also hear that the Golden State Warriors and Cleveland Cavaliers are good in basketball. The world is slowly turning upside down from my youth. The only stability is that the Chiefs don't win any big games.

[saphojunkie]

Also said Kizer was the 4th QB on our board last year.

Who are you putting ahead of him?

[St. Patty's Fire]

Also said Kizer was the 4th QB on our board last year.

If I had to guess

Mahomes
Watson
Trubisky
Kizer

[Hammock Parties]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

[RunKC]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

No.

Alex can run, he's at his career APEX now and his legs aren't shot like Bradford. Bradford is very injury prone.

[Marcellus]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

Because Bradford is good for 8-9 games a season before getting hurt.

Talk about fool's gold.

[raybec 4]

It ain't mean if it's true.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I remember the Colts having the #1 and #2 picks one year. They went with Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt.

And the Redshins. Samuel and Arrington

[Quesadilla Joe]

.

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

A healthy Bradford is a much better QB than Smith and probably wouldn't cost as much either. I'd rather Denver go after Bradford than Cousins TBH.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

I would never ever sign Bradford. Good players aren't good if they don't play.

[WhawhaWhat]

And the Redshins. Samuel and Arrington

They were 2 and 3. #1 was future HOFer Courtney Brown drafted by the Browns.

[Shields68]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

He is not going to trade for Alex. He will have 2 of the top 10, maybe 2 in the top 5 picks in the draft. If you take a QB 1, which they will, your not trading anything of value for Alex, nor waste cap space on a FA QB, who is going to want a 3 year deal.

Nope Browns are going to draft their QB and look to start him right away.

[Sassy Squatch]

A healthy Bradford is a much better QB than Smith and probably wouldn't cost as much either. I'd rather Denver go after Bradford than Cousins TBH.
Yeah, bro. That's kind of been the story of his career. He's played in all 16 games 2 times out of 8. His 1st and 3rd year.

[Bewbies]

Has Bradford ever had a year close to what Smith has done this year?

[Quesadilla Joe]

Has Bradford ever had a year close to what Smith has done this year?

Has Smith? #Fluke

[RippedmyFlesh]

I remember the Colts having the #1 and #2 picks one year. They went with Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt.

As bad as that seems I went and looked back. Nothing in the top 20that makes you go wow. The best qb by a wide margin in that class was jeff blake. Almost as bad a year to have #1 pick as the chiefs fischer year.

[Shields68]

He is an asshole. I'll never forget the awkward "knucks" him and Clark did on draft day when getting Mahomes.

Could be what the Browns liked about him. After all the celebration happened after he sent in the trade card and no deadlines were missed.

[SAUTO]

he also dogged on kenny britt.

[Bewbies]

Has Smith? #Fluke

This is definitely Smith's outlier year for sure. But Bradford doesn't have an outlier that's close.

[BlackOp]

Dorsey inherits Myles Garrett/Gordon...and has two top 5 picks? Five picks in the first two rounds and a boatload of FA cash? He also has his choice of waiver wire cuts...damn.

With Ben/Flacco wearing out....Browns are going to own that division in a few years.

[SPchief]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

Do they turn to the 3rd round qb in week 4 when Bradford goes down for the year?

[pugsnotdrugs19]

For all of this talk of the Browns and Chiefs running the AFC one day, I hope it's true... but I highly doubt it. This QB class is not very good, and the NFL personnel guys know it by now.

Josh Rosen is the real life Bo Callahan apparently, as his teammates don't like him and he has a Jay Cutler personality. Darnold has been so bad this year that rumors suggest he might not come out this year in order to rebuild his draft stock. Jackson looks great but no one is sure how he will translate into the NFL.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's not just assume the Browns are getting a star QB this year.

[ChiefGator]

For all of this talk of the Browns and Chiefs running the AFC one day, I hope it's true... but I highly doubt it. This QB class is not very good, and the NFL personnel guys know it by now.

Josh Rosen is the real life Bo Callahan apparently, as his teammates don't like him and he has a Jay Cutler personality. Darnold has been so bad this year that rumors suggest he might not come out this year in order to rebuild his draft stock. Jackson looks great but no one is sure how he will translate into the NFL.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's not just assume the Browns are getting a star QB this year.

Next year's QB draft will be great and so much better than this year.. ( repeat mantra non-stop) It does seem like that is what the talking heads ALWAYS say

[Pueblo Chieftan]

The few players who are real players already know the comments weren't directed at them. They are on the team, they know who Dorsey is talking about. Stating the obvious may not be the polite thing to do, but 0-13 is 0-13 and when asked, you have to say something.

I find his comments encouraging to the organization.

[Shields68]

The few players who are real players already know the comments weren't directed at them. They are on the team, they know who Dorsey is talking about. Stating the obvious may not be the polite thing to do, but 0-13 is 0-13 and when asked, you have to say something.

I find his comments encouraging to the organization.

Yeah your either throwing the front office under the bus and/or the coaching staff. My guess is that this was his way of protecting Hugh and attempt to stop the rumors that Hugh is out the door and he is going to hire his guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

So if you're John Dorsey...do you really want to trade picks and pay a shit-ton of cash for Alex Smith...when Sam Bradford is going to be sitting on the FA market?

He's three years younger, you're not going to be shoehorned into running one type of offense, he's far better at throwing to actual wide receivers, the Browns don't really have a TE....

If you're going to draft a QB anyway, signing Bradford seems to be far better option if you're looking for a stopgap.

For most teams, possibly. For the browns? **** no. Alex Smith is a better qb and he's perfect for bringing them stability. They do have a tight end, by the way. David njoku is pretty good. I don't think Smith helps what the chiefs want right now. But for a team that has been really bad for 20 years straight he will give him stability. And the browns don't care about money. They were so desperate to hit their cap floor this year that they traded for Brock osweiler just to soak up his cap money. They'll have even more money to spend next year.

And while most teams would develop a first round qb, the browns have the opposite history. If they pass on Alex Smith and darnold busts, then the browns will have drafted 4 qbs in 10 years that busted. Dorsey should trade for him, draft saquon, take the best qb available with their next #1 pick.

[Easy 6]

Dorsey inherits Myles Garrett/Gordon...and has two top 5 picks? Five picks in the first two rounds and a boatload of FA cash? He also has his choice of waiver wire cuts...damn.

With Ben/Flacco wearing out....Browns are going to own that division in a few years.

Yeah, he has a real opportunity to load them up in 2018

Give us a #2 for Smith, and they could conceivably turn it around quickly

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Dorsey conducts himself like he's on the spectrum.

[Ebolapox]

I remember the Colts having the #1 and #2 picks one year. They went with Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt.

Haha yep... shoulda gone trade out of one and draft klingler and let him develop

[Coach]

Sam Darnold and Saquon Barkley

Dream scenario for Cleveland

Barkley is a good choice, but Darnold? Pass. I'm not too impressed with Darnold, and I think he's going to bust, regardless of where he goes.

[SAUTO]

Mav is going to be so excited when smith is on grand pa's team.

[Pablo]

Mav is going to be so excited when smith is on grand pa's team.

The most excited person. He can't wait to pull on a crunchy nut turd jersey with Smiff queefed all over the back of it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dorsey conducts himself like he's on the spectrum.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

He left the Chiefs roster in incredible shape.

Tons of top line starters and depth at WR, RB, OLB, CB, Safety and O line.

[Buehler445]

Dorsey conducts himself like he's on the spectrum.

Autism spectrum? I had to look that up. At first I thought it was some street drug I haven’t heard of.

[Ming the Merciless]

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

LOL theyll be lucky to win 1 wildcard game in 5 years if they sign smith

[ChiefAshhole1056]

LOL theyll be lucky to win 1 wildcard game in 5 years if they sign smith

I don’t think you comprehend the amount of joy that amount of success would bring Cleveland fans. As bad as Chiefs fans have had it, it’s been better than what they’ve gone through.

[ChiefAshhole1056]

I have roommates that are Browns fans and they’re very cautiously optimistic about this, but I’ve been assuring them they’re in for a bright future with what Dorsey has to work with.

Trade a 2nd for Alex, sign Gordon to a big extension with an ass load of clauses, sign Trumaine, draft Saquon first (he’s worth it), draft best defensive player available with other 1st, and let Dorsey handle the rest.

[MahiMike]

Perfect timing for Dorsey. Can't do any worse, no where to go but up, tons of picks and cap space. And he'll have Kirk cousins. He already wrote off Alex...

[MahiMike]

Plus big Ben and flacco almost done.

[Molitoth]

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

Alex Smith can't even get the talent filled Chiefs to the AFCCG, but he can go take the rebuilding Browns? ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

[Easy 6]

Alex Smith can't even get the talent filled Chiefs to the AFCCG, but he can go take the rebuilding Browns? ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Heh, yeah Direck really overstepped there

But with a solid draft and free agency, Smith could possibly get them to 8-8, 9-7... they could rise above their current bad joke status, which would be a quantum leap for them

[CoMoChief]

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

You couldnt pay me enough to wanna play for that shithole of a franchise....and town.

Cleveland might be tbe worst major city in the US.

[The Franchise]

Heh, yeah Direck really overstepped there

But with a solid draft and free agency, Smith could possibly get them to 8-8, 9-7... they could rise above their current bad joke status, which would be a quantum leap for them

This.

This is why you trade for Smith and draft a 1st round QB at #1. Smith can help you get back to average while you redshirt your rookie.

Now watch Dorsey trade Joe Thomas and draft a LT #1.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Evan Silva isn't a big John Dorsey fan. LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is an agenda-driven LIE from a card-carrying Cocoon Keeper whose primary mission is to suppress new ways of thinking. <a href="https://t.co/wArfMP54bh">https://t.co/wArfMP54bh</a></p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941438904657465352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Maybe start with guys who didn&#39;t just get fired for being terrible at the job you&#39;re about to hire them to perform?</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941718606437650433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When this league crony who got shit canned 6 months ago for bungling KC&#39;s cap &amp; drafting poorly insults our intelligence, the LAST thing I&#39;m doing is caping for him.</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941712434812932099?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And no matter what his butt-kissing friends say, the ONLY reason he got this job is because he is a league crony. And then he insults our intelligence. �� him</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941712971109105664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That&#39;s because most people begin with the premise that these league people are actually good at what they do. They are not. Dorsey just got fired 6 months ago!</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941728148240166913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No chance he&#39;ll suck with the silver platter Sashi left him. Too many assets to fail</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941442176537583616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[RunKC]

Denver should have went after Dorsey to run their draft board.

For all of Dorsey’s warts, he is significantly better at drafting players than Elway's team.

[SAUTO]

Evan Silva isn't a big John Dorsey fan. LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is an agenda-driven LIE from a card-carrying Cocoon Keeper whose primary mission is to suppress new ways of thinking. <a href="https://t.co/wArfMP54bh">https://t.co/wArfMP54bh</a></p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941438904657465352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Maybe start with guys who didn&#39;t just get fired for being terrible at the job you&#39;re about to hire them to perform?</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941718606437650433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When this league crony who got shit canned 6 months ago for bungling KC&#39;s cap &amp; drafting poorly insults our intelligence, the LAST thing I&#39;m doing is caping for him.</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941712434812932099?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And no matter what his butt-kissing friends say, the ONLY reason he got this job is because he is a league crony. And then he insults our intelligence. �� him</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941712971109105664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That&#39;s because most people begin with the premise that these league people are actually good at what they do. They are not. Dorsey just got fired 6 months ago!</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941728148240166913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No chance he&#39;ll suck with the silver platter Sashi left him. Too many assets to fail</p>&mdash; Evan Silva (@evansilva) <a href="https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/941442176537583616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[ptlyon]

wow

So, he's not gonna suck, and he's mad?

[mcaj22]

Silva's right. The new progressive analytics did all the ground work and had to suffer through all that losing and right at the end of the tunnel yet the league brings in an old school "football" guy to use all those assets that the new meta had gathered.

Where did we see this before? Oh yea, in the NBA with the Philadelphia 76ers and Sam Hinkie, and right at the end he got replaced for... you guessed it, a league guy in Colangelo to reap all the benefits.

Just once I want to see the analytics process actually go through fully, with the analytics driven team actually allowed to pick and develop the assets, and not actually getting burnt at the end of all that losing.

[chiefzilla1501]

Silva's right. The new progressive analytics did all the ground work and had to suffer through all that losing and right at the end of the tunnel yet the league brings in an old school "football" guy to use all those assets that the new meta had gathered.

Where did we see this before? Oh yea, in the NBA with the Philadelphia 76ers and Sam Hinkie, and right at the end he got replaced for... you guessed it, a league guy in Colangelo to reap all the benefits.

Just once I want to see the analytics process actually go through fully, with the analytics driven team actually allowed to pick and develop the assets, and not actually getting burnt at the end of all that losing.

I've said this before. Take a look at what Chris Grant did to the Cavs. The Browns did the same exact thing. The strategy is brilliant to a point. All the draft picks they compiled, etc... But when you do all that maneuvering and then pick Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett, that reeks of someone trying "outclever" the competition. I love the Browns' approach... to a point. It's similar to what Jacksonville did. The big difference is that the Jaguars took swings where they needed to. They took a swing at a #1 QB because they knew they needed to, even if he wasn't a no-brainer. The Browns on the other hand had a no-brainer in Wentz and doubled down on stupid when they passed on both Watson and Mahomes.

I'm not sure what Evan Silva's complaining about. You can do all the analytics in the world. No analytics can justify why the Browns thought they could win with low round QBs when they were sitting on 3 QBs in 2 years who were sitting right in their lap. The Chiefs never got that lucky. Few teams luck into having 1 QB fall into their lap, let alone 2 or 3 in consecutive years.

[Iconic]

Dunno if this was posted yet but...

Dorsey now saying - "Anything but a division title in 2018 is unacceptable"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000893204/article/browns-gm-anything-but-18-north-title-unacceptable

[Chiefs Moon]

I don't understand the talk about Alex Smith to Cleveland. Smith wouldn't want to go there-- he wouldn't sign an extension with Cleveland. They are drafting a QB this year and they are a total rebuild. Why would Cleveland want a pissed off Alex Smith? He moves his family to Cleveland for one year so he can tutor someone? I'm thinking Tom Condon is out trying to get a deal with a team Alex would like to lead for his last contract. I'm also thinking Condon will tell the Chiefs if they even think about trading Smith to Cleveland, Alex will retire.

[Black Bob]

I can see Dorsey having tremendous success in Cleveland. IF... He hits a home run with his HC hiring.

[CoMoChief]

I can see Dorsey having tremendous success in Cleveland. IF... He hits a home run with his HC hiring.

Gruden

[PAChiefsGuy]

I don't understand the talk about Alex Smith to Cleveland. Smith wouldn't want to go there-- he wouldn't sign an extension with Cleveland. They are drafting a QB this year and they are a total rebuild. Why would Cleveland want a pissed off Alex Smith? He moves his family to Cleveland for one year so he can tutor someone? I'm thinking Tom Condon is out trying to get a deal with a team Alex would like to lead for his last contract. I'm also thinking Condon will tell the Chiefs if they even think about trading Smith to Cleveland, Alex will retire.

Absolutely... It's just the Smitty haters trying to talk trash and making themselves look like idiots in the process, as usual.

[mcaj22]

I've said this before. Take a look at what Chris Grant did to the Cavs. The Browns did the same exact thing. The strategy is brilliant to a point. All the draft picks they compiled, etc... But when you do all that maneuvering and then pick Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett, that reeks of someone trying "outclever" the competition. I love the Browns' approach... to a point. It's similar to what Jacksonville did. The big difference is that the Jaguars took swings where they needed to. They took a swing at a #1 QB because they knew they needed to, even if he wasn't a no-brainer. The Browns on the other hand had a no-brainer in Wentz and doubled down on stupid when they passed on both Watson and Mahomes.

I'm not sure what Evan Silva's complaining about. You can do all the analytics in the world. No analytics can justify why the Browns thought they could win with low round QBs when they were sitting on 3 QBs in 2 years who were sitting right in their lap. The Chiefs never got that lucky. Few teams luck into having 1 QB fall into their lap, let alone 2 or 3 in consecutive years.

Trading out to collect more assets instead of taking Wentz is a huge miss, but let's not act like old school football guys like Pioli and Dorsey didn't completely whiff and miss on their drafts either. It goes both ways. At least in the Browns case they still got something for their miss (more assets) instead of taking Wentz. Fat Scott and Dorsey would just flat out miss players because their egos want that small gadget player in the 2nd round or that raw developmental player with the high sparQ score in the 2nd.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

I don't understand the talk about Alex Smith to Cleveland. Smith wouldn't want to go there-- he wouldn't sign an extension with Cleveland. They are drafting a QB this year and they are a total rebuild. Why would Cleveland want a pissed off Alex Smith? He moves his family to Cleveland for one year so he can tutor someone? I'm thinking Tom Condon is out trying to get a deal with a team Alex would like to lead for his last contract. I'm also thinking Condon will tell the Chiefs if they even think about trading Smith to Cleveland, Alex will retire.

Absolutely... It's just the Smitty haters trying to talk trash and making themselves look like idiots in the process, as usual.

Yes, because Alex will walk away from tens of millions of dollars out of spite.

And everyone ELSE is the idiot. ROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't understand the talk about Alex Smith to Cleveland. Smith wouldn't want to go there-- he wouldn't sign an extension with Cleveland. They are drafting a QB this year and they are a total rebuild. Why would Cleveland want a pissed off Alex Smith? He moves his family to Cleveland for one year so he can tutor someone? I'm thinking Tom Condon is out trying to get a deal with a team Alex would like to lead for his last contract. I'm also thinking Condon will tell the Chiefs if they even think about trading Smith to Cleveland, Alex will retire.

Think there were stories saying his wife was worried about his concussions. I don't think she's too crazy about him sticking around too long. If so, Cleveland is a good place to go because they have tons of money to give him a front-loaded deal. Cleveland is not in total rebuild. They have plenty of talent and they have tons of cap space next year to invest in free agents to fill in any of their holes. And if Joe Thomas is healthy, that OL is better than ours (or has the cap space to make it better).

[Reerun_KC]

Alex Smith can't even get the talent filled Chiefs to the AFCCG, but he can go take the rebuilding Browns? ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL



He can’t even win but 1 playoff game in KC yet taking the browns to the AFCCG.

Jesus people.

[chiefzilla1501]

Trading out to collect more assets instead of taking Wentz is a huge miss, but let's not act like old school football guys like Pioli and Dorsey didn't completely whiff and miss on their drafts either. It goes both ways. At least in the Browns case they still got something for their miss (more assets) instead of taking Wentz. Fat Scott and Dorsey would just flat out miss players because their egos want that small gadget player in the 2nd round or that raw developmental player with the high sparQ score in the 2nd.

Am I missing the part where Dorsey completely whiffed on a bunch of 1st and 2nd rounders? Was looking at his first 3 rounds and he's hit good players on 8 out of 14 of those picks (could be 10 depending on Mahomes and Kpassagnon). What kind of % do you think most GMs are raking in? Where is the narrative coming from that we've been terrible in the draft the past few years? That's pretty damn good considering we were mostly drafting in the bottom of each round.

But to the original point... QB is the hardest position to find and it's critical. Passing up on 3 big QB prospects when they're sitting in your lap is a crime. We're not talking about passing on Blake Bortles or Andy Dalton. We're talking about Wentz, Watson, and Mahomes. I think passing on those guys for Kiser and Kessler is the mark of a man trying to be too clever and paying a huge price for it.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Yes, because Alex will walk away from tens of millions of dollars out of spite.

And everyone ELSE is the idiot. ROFL

Plenty of NFL players have walked away from a lot of money and retired Smith wouldn't be the first or the last if he decided to do so. QBs like Smitty make enough in one-season to last a lifetime if managed correctly.

Think there were stories saying his wife was worried about his concussions. I don't think she's too crazy about him sticking around too long. If so, Cleveland is a good place to go because they have tons of money to give him a front-loaded deal. Cleveland is not in total rebuild. They have plenty of talent and they have tons of cap space next year to invest in free agents to fill in any of their holes. And if Joe Thomas is healthy, that OL is better than ours (or has the cap space to make it better).

Once again money is not going to be a huge factor for Alex 'Class Act' Smith at this point in his career. He wants to win a SB... He is going to want to go to a contender and the Browns are not it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Plenty of NFL players have walked away from a lot of money and retired Smith wouldn't be the first or the last if he decided to do so. QBs like Smitty make enough in one-season to last a lifetime if managed correctly.



Once again money is not going to be a huge factor for Alex 'Class Act' Smith at this point in his career. He wants to win a SB... He is going to want to go to a contender and the Browns are not it.

Assuming Jacksonville gives up on Blake Bortles or Minnesota decides to go away from Keenum and Bridgewater, what teams are an Alex Smith away from a legit Super Bowl run? In fact, I'd scratch Jacksonville completely out because why would they get a 1-2 year QB rental for a very young team on the rise?

And that's considering that any team that trades for Alex Smith and thinks they have a Super Bowl team is delusional. Now, what Alex Smith is good for is turning around a team and making them respectable. If Alex Smith brings the Browns to 8-8 and he can do that by 2018, he'll be a legend in Cleveland. That's not a bad way to ride off into the sunset.

[Coogs]

Not sure if this is a repost, or the place to drop this, but this ESPN guy (not Teicher) thinks Buffalo.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article189953214.html

[dlphg9]

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

Not with Alex as their QB

[mcaj22]

Am I missing the part where Dorsey completely whiffed on a bunch of 1st and 2nd rounders? Was looking at his first 3 rounds and he's hit good players on 8 out of 14 of those picks (could be 10 depending on Mahomes and Kpassagnon). What kind of % do you think most GMs are raking in? Where is the narrative coming from that we've been terrible in the draft the past few years? That's pretty damn good considering we were mostly drafting in the bottom of each round.

But to the original point... QB is the hardest position to find and it's critical. Passing up on 3 big QB prospects when they're sitting in your lap is a crime. We're not talking about passing on Blake Bortles or Andy Dalton. We're talking about Wentz, Watson, and Mahomes. I think passing on those guys for Kiser and Kessler is the mark of a man trying to be too clever and paying a huge price for it.

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.

There is a scenario or a narrative this offseason that two of Dorsey's first round picks could be cut/traded (Peters, Ford) If you consider that "pretty damn good" coming from a GM that said the Browns don't have any good players from the last regime that brought them Peppers, Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib, better defensive players than Dorsey ever drafted in 5 years here then I will have to agree to disagree.

Sashi passing on Wentz was his only huge failure. Enough to get fired I guess. But they were trying to something different/new than just the old school league crony scout that picks based off the eye test

[Easy 6]

Gruden

I read that he wants the NYG

[nychief]

smacks of Haley claiming he could take 40 guys off the street and win more than the two games Herm won.

He better back up his mouth.

[chiefzilla1501]

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.

There is a scenario or a narrative this offseason that two of Dorsey's first round picks could be cut/traded (Peters, Ford) If you consider that "pretty damn good" coming from a GM that said the Browns don't have any good players from the last regime that brought them Peppers, Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib, better defensive players than Dorsey ever drafted in 5 years here then I will have to agree to disagree.

Sashi passing on Wentz was his only huge failure. Enough to get fired I guess. But they were trying to something different/new than just the old school league crony scout that picks based off the eye test

I don't think what they did was terrible. I like a lot of things about their approach, the same way I've praised Jacksonville for theirs. But they tried to get too cute and got too cocky. I think they were trying to prove to the world they could build off a low round QB. Either that or they were sitting around waiting for Sam Darnold, only to realize he's not the prospect everyone thought he'd be. Between Watson and Mahomes, the odds seem very good that they'll prove Cleveland made a mistake by passing on them.

Anyone who praises Cleveland's strategy talk about how they have so many picks. 8 or 9 of those came from passing up on Wentz. Take those picks away and there's nothing real special about what they did. They'd just have a few extra picks, that's it. That's why the Wentz trade is so important. When you pass on a few really good QBs, you better have a much, much better list than Coleman, Ogbah, etc....

As for comparing the Browns' draft haul? Other than Garrett who was a no-brainer... the others aren't exactly guys you look at Nelson, Chris Jones, and Peters and say "man, I wish we had those guys instead." Especially Peppers who feels like he's playing out of position. And that's only on defense. It's not a bad haul, but they had the top pick in each round and again you have to consider that most of that came because they purposefully passed on blue chip QB prospects.

[CoMoChief]

Man it'd be nice to have Josh Gordon...assuming he can stay on the field.

Reid has had some good fortune w/ problem childs. Vick, TO (even though that relationship ended bad, he was good while he was there).

Gordon isn't a TO headache, he just loves smoking weed and can't seem to stay eligible.

IMO the good outweighs the bad should the cost be right.

[chiefzilla1501]

Something else to consider. The browns not only passed on Wentz. They also passed on bosa, zeke, and Jalen Ramsey. These three guys are pro bowlers. That is an absolutely stacked top 5 draft class.

[Quesadilla Joe]

A Dorsey tidbit from Breer. I heard something about people in KC being unhappy with certain contracts Dorsey gave out but don't remember them specifying Eric Fisher's contract as one of them...

Dorsey’s issue in Kansas City was co-workers felt he freelanced with some calls (paying Eric Fisher; drafting Kevin Hogan) and dragged his feet on others (Eric Berry, Justin Houston contracts), which led to festering office politics.

“This job, you can’t just watch tape all day,” said another NFC GM. “You have the equipment guy reporting to you, the video guy reporting to you, you’re managing the roster, working with the cap guy, handling the owner. There’s a difference between being a personnel director and being a GM. They’re different jobs. … And I think with Gettleman and Dorsey, it was more, ‘I just wanna watch tape.’”https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/21/future-general-managers-nick-caserio-eliot-wolf-nfl-notes-mmqb

[Sassy Squatch]

A Dorsey tidbit from Breer. I heard something about people in KC being unhappy with certain contracts Dorsey gave out but don't remember them specifying Eric Fisher's contract as one of them...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/21/future-general-managers-nick-caserio-eliot-wolf-nfl-notes-mmqb
Deservedly so. Eric Fisher fucking sucks in relation to what he gets paid.

[SAUTO]

Something else to consider. The browns not only passed on Wentz. They also passed on bosa, zeke, and Jalen Ramsey. These three guys are pro bowlers. That is an absolutely stacked top 5 draft class.

We got Fisher and jackyll at the top of ours

[JakeF]

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.
You can't put Mahomes in any category yet, he hasn't played a regular-season NFL game yet.

[Prison Bitch]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/583/267/e8a.gif

[Imon Yourside]

Someone quick bury this thread!

[Prison Bitch]

Browns - Chiefs AFCCG in three seasons.

Running outta time !!!