2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/762236/carp.gif


Opening Day Roster
St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson


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[BigRedChief]

Heard on MLB tonight that they heard the Cardinals offered Hosmer 6 years/$120 Million. SD offered 7/140. They were debating which one he should take. All went with the Cardinals.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Heard on MLB tonight that they heard the Cardinals offered Hosmer 6 years/$120 Million. SD offered 7/140. They were debating which one he should take. All went with the Cardinals.

Seems like a no-brainer to me... I'd sign with STL yesterday if those are my options

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Mozeliak should kill himself for signing off on that contract.

[DJ's left nut]

Mozeliak should kill himself for signing off on that contract.

Who reported it? Because if it's Nightengale it's bullshit. And if it's Heyman (a notorious Boras mouthepiece) it's almost certainly also bullshit.

It doesn't pass the sniff test, IMO. Probably Boras trying to rebuild a flagging market and get the Royals to price enforce while trying to up the Padres offer.

[jd1020]

Who reported it? Because if it's Nightengale it's bullshit. And if it's Heyman (a notorious Boras mouthepiece) it's almost certainly also bullshit.

It doesn't pass the sniff test, IMO. Probably Boras trying to rebuild a flagging market and get the Royals to price enforce while trying to up the Padres offer.

All the numbers are being quoted from Nightengale but I havent seen anyone saying the Cardinals have made an offer.

[BigRedChief]

Mozeliak should kill himself for signing off on that contract.They were talking about it as if these rumors are true scenario. Not a one of them was saying it as fact that an offer was made.

[raybec 4]

Who reported it? Because if it's Nightengale it's bullshit. And if it's Heyman (a notorious Boras mouthepiece) it's almost certainly also bullshit.

It doesn't pass the sniff test, IMO. Probably Boras trying to rebuild a flagging market and get the Royals to price enforce while trying to up the Padres offer.

John Morosi tweeted it out, but he mentions Boras several times in his report.

[BigRedChief]

John Morosi tweeted it out, but he mentions Boras several times in his report.whats Morosi's track record? BS or true?

[jd1020]

John Morosi tweeted it out, but he mentions Boras several times in his report.

I nearly forgot Morosi still had baseball insiders any more with all his spanish mumblings and disappearing act from twitter during the winter meetings.

[DJ's left nut]

whats Morosi's track record? BS or true?

Eh - I wouldn't say he's universally inaccurate. He's pretty much a spitball artist, though. He just throws so much shit at the wall (and in such 'data dump' fashion) that you tend to gloss over most of what he says and only remember the stuff that's right.

I don't think he's particularly valuable, to be honest.

The guys to really pay attention to here aren't the national guys. If there's information on the Cardinals to be had, Goold and Bernie will have it.

[BigRedChief]

Eh - I wouldn't say he's universally inaccurate. He's pretty much a spitball artist, though. He just throws so much shit at the wall (and in such 'data dump' fashion) that you tend to gloss over most of what he says and only remember the stuff that's right.

I don't think he's particularly valuable, to be honest.

The guys to really pay attention to here aren't the national guys. If there's information on the Cardinals to be had, Goold and Bernie will have it.that seems like a pile of money to pay "just another guy".

But, we have plenty of money now.

[VAChief]

This would be dumb for multiple reasons, but would be a sign they are making a move to appease what a good portion of the fan base would see as an upgrade.

I keep hearing about the "flexibility" Carpenter gives you at multiple positions. Sure, and Jose Martinez could technically play center field. We need to limit meathead's options not add to them. He has proven he can't manage that way. For us to have any chance he needs a lineup that fills out itself.

A big fat no to Hosmer.

[raybec 4]

This would be dumb for multiple reasons, but would be a sign they are making a move to appease what a good portion of the fan base would see as an upgrade.

I keep hearing about the "flexibility" Carpenter gives you at multiple positions. Sure, and Jose Martinez could technically play center field. We need to limit meathead's options not add to them. He has proven he can't manage that way. For us to have any chance he needs a lineup that fills out itself.

A big fat no to Hosmer.

Hosmer or Donaldson would both add a good bat to the line up but if we can't fix the bullpen it won't be as effective.

[VAChief]

Hosmer or Donaldson would both add a good bat to the line up but if we can't fix the bullpen it won't be as effective.

Hosmer is maybe a slight offensive upgrade (that is debatable) to our lineup over just keeping Gyorko at 3B. It is a defensive downgrade to move Carpenter back there even with the "perceived" defensive attributes of Hosmer. The metrics on him defensively do not support the accolades he has received (and it isn't even close). All this and he is likely going to cost us 200 million? No thanks.

Donaldson would be an upgrade and I would be excited to have his bat and glove here (depending on the cost).

[Marcellus]

Royals already beat every other offer on Hosmer.

[raybec 4]

Hosmer is maybe a slight offensive upgrade (that is debatable) to our lineup over just keeping Gyorko at 3B. It is a defensive downgrade to move Carpenter back there even with the "perceived" defensive attributes of Hosmer. The metrics on him defensively do not support the accolades he has received (and it isn't even close). All this and he is likely going to cost us 200 million? No thanks.

Donaldson would be an upgrade and I would be excited to have his bat and glove here (depending on the cost).

I think the problem would be the offensive production you'd gain wouldn't come from the right position. Gyorko is more than just serviceable and so is Carp. They need another corner outfielder and some pitching help.

[VAChief]

I think the problem would be the offensive production you'd gain wouldn't come from the right position. Gyorko is more than just serviceable and so is Carp. They need another corner outfielder and some pitching help.

I agree that we can use another bat, I just don't want them to panic and lock into someone that long term that is an iffy upgrade.

Hopefully he will just stay with the Royals.

[DJ's left nut]

Hosmer is maybe a slight offensive upgrade (that is debatable) to our lineup over just keeping Gyorko at 3B. It is a defensive downgrade to move Carpenter back there even with the "perceived" defensive attributes of Hosmer. The metrics on him defensively do not support the accolades he has received (and it isn't even close). All this and he is likely going to cost us 200 million? No thanks.

Donaldson would be an upgrade and I would be excited to have his bat and glove here (depending on the cost).

Putting Hosmer in at 1b so you can bench Gyorko and slide Carpenter over to 3b makes the team $160 million or so more expensive and genuinely worse over the next 2-3 years.

You've savagely mauled your 3b defense in that transition for maybe (maybe) a slight offensive upgrade at 1b. The only major improvement you'd get is that you're replacing a RH in Gyorko with a LH in Hosmer in a lineup that could probably use another LH hitter.

If that's your plan, go get Moustakas on the shorter-term, lower AAV deal. He'd be a better fit, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

I think the problem would be the offensive production you'd gain wouldn't come from the right position. Gyorko is more than just serviceable and so is Carp. They need another corner outfielder and some pitching help.

They need a SS.

They're fine in the OF; Fowler's a genuinely good offensive player and if he's playing LF, he's fine on defense. Sadly we're likely putting his noodle arm in RF where he'll be less fine, but whatever - if he catches the ball and stops pulling up on everything like he did in CF, he'll play over there. Arm strength is the least valuable of the 5 tools and if he plays with good instincts and accuracy, he can make up for the arm deficiency.

They need a superstar and they need him to be a SS.

They need Manny !@#$ing Machado.

[BigRedChief]

They need a SS.

They need a superstar and they need him to be a SS.

They need Manny !@#$ing Machado.what team wouldn't be better with Machado at SS?

[DJ's left nut]

what team wouldn't be better with Machado at SS?

Houston? LA? Maybe Cleveland.

But what teams can claim that Machado makes them go from potentially wild-card round roadkill to genuine contenders?

Not so many. There aren't many teams that have the combination of need, prospect depth and financial wherewithal while also being in the right spot in the competition cycle to say 'this is a no-brainer'. Some teams can contend easily without him and once you're at that level, I think it's silly to take big risks because of the crapshoot nature of post-season baseball.

Other teams are simply going from varying degrees of irrelevant.

But I can't think of any other team that can move themselves up a 'competitive tier' while also having the ability to acquire and retain Machado (presuming he hasn't already made up his mind to go to NYY).

[BigRedChief]

Houston? LA? Maybe Cleveland.

But what teams can claim that Machado makes them go from potentially wild-card round roadkill to genuine contenders?

Not so many. There aren't many teams that have the combination of need, prospect depth and financial wherewithal while also being in the right spot in the competition cycle to say 'this is a no-brainer'. Some teams can contend easily without him and once you're at that level, I think it's silly to take big risks because of the crapshoot nature of post-season baseball.

Other teams are simply going from varying degrees of irrelevant.

But I can't think of any other team that can move themselves up a 'competitive tier' while also having the ability to acquire and retain Machado (presuming he hasn't already made up his mind to go to NYY).I don't think we can resign him for non-monetary reasons.

I like him ahelluva lot. Way more than Harper that's for sure.

Why give up everything of high value in our farm system for a 1 year run? We won 2 Championships in the last 11 years. We are not that desperate.

[Miles]

The feels like the slowest free agency I can recall.

[BigRedChief]

<header class="article-header"> Report: Arrieta has offers from 6 teams including Cubs, Brewers

by Simon Sharkey-Gotlieb (https://www.thescore.com/author/simon-sharkey-gotlieb) 17h ago

Jim Young / USA TODAY Sports

</header> Jake Arrieta (https://www.thescore.com/mlb/players/1376)'s market is apparently heating up.
A source close to Arrieta told Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times (https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/cubs-counting-on-jim-hickey-to-pack-a-punch-with-pitching-staff-in-transition/) that the free-agent right-hander is sitting on offers from six different teams that are said to be "overpay(s)" in terms of annual values.


The Chicago Cubs (https://www.thescore.com/mlb/teams/21) - the team with which Arrieta became a star over the past four-plus seasons - along with two other NL Central clubs, the St. Louis Cardinals (https://www.thescore.com/mlb/teams/25) and Milwaukee Brewers (https://www.thescore.com/mlb/teams/20), have all reportedly offered deals to the 31-year-old former Cy Young winner, according to Wittenmyer.
Chicago reportedly offered (https://www.thescore.com/news/1459401) Arrieta a four-year deal worth $110 million earlier this month. It's unknown what offers have been made by either Milwaukee or St. Louis, or the identities of the other three teams.

[BigRedChief]

MLB free agents may not be full-on panicking yet, but there’s probably some slight concern among them given the large number of individuals still on the market.


“They’re getting nervous. Particularly the players,” USA Today’s Bob Nightengale recently told The Bernie Miklasz Show. “The only think keeping them sane right now is that they’re in the similar boat with 135 other guys…These guys have young families, wives, everything else. They want to know what’s going on. Are you packing for Florida? Are you packing for Arizona for spring?


“It’s starting to get late…I guarantee that if someone gets just a decent offer they’re going to grab it.”


One free agent Nightengale thinks could land in Jupiter is former Royals third baseman Mike Moustakas, who’s coming off a 38-homer year to go with an .835 OPS.

“I think the Cardinals are sitting back and hoping that Moustakas falls into their lap,” He said. “I think that’d be a great move. Then, of course, grab a starter.”

[bdj23]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22058704/toronto-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-reach-23m-deal

Donaldson off the table

[Marcellus]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22058704/toronto-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-reach-23m-deal

Donaldson off the table

Why would that prevent him from being traded?

[bdj23]

Why would that prevent him from being traded?

It doesn't, but don't they blue jays believe they can still contend? I just likely think they will work out an extension for him, unless they are awful this season.

[jd1020]

It doesn't, but don't they blue jays believe they can still contend? I just likely think they will work out an extension for him, unless they are awful this season.

I would imagine they have a good idea on whether or not they can extend him. Their options were go to arbitration, sign him to a 1 year deal, or let him become a FA early.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Ship them a certain outfielder that will definitely regress to them then.

[BigRedChief]

Ozuna gets $9 million for this year to avoid arbitration.

[alpha_omega]

Ok, so i know that BRC hates it when the Cardinals haters post in these threads, but seeing it compels me to do so. Since the season hasn't started yet, i'll take the opportunity to post once and not come back for the rest of the season.

Fuck the Cardinals and fuck anything St. Louis.

That is all...carry on.

Apologies in advance to BRC.

[jd1020]

Ok, so i know that BRC hates it when the Cardinals haters post in these threads, but seeing it compels me to do so. Since the season hasn't started yet, i'll take the opportunity to post once and not come back for the rest of the season.

**** the Cardinals and **** anything St. Louis.

That is all...carry on.

Apologies in advance to BRC.

:rockon:

[BigRedChief]

Ok, so i know that BRC hates it when the Cardinals haters post in these threads, but seeing it compels me to do so. Since the season hasn't started yet, i'll take the opportunity to post once and not come back for the rest of the season.

**** the Cardinals and **** anything St. Louis.

That is all...carry on.

Apologies in advance to BRC.dude you haters come in all the time. 17 years of this thread. Haters going to hate. We are fans of the team we grew up with. You can't change teams. Seems like you guys would have got over that juvenile stuff when you won the WS?

[Rams Fan]

Ok, so i know that BRC hates it when the Cardinals haters post in these threads, but seeing it compels me to do so. Since the season hasn't started yet, i'll take the opportunity to post once and not come back for the rest of the season.

**** the Cardinals and **** anything St. Louis.

That is all...carry on.

Apologies in advance to BRC.

Fuck off for talking shit about my city.

[Rams Fan]

dude you haters come in all the time. 17 years of this thread. Haters going to hate. We are fans of the team we grew up with. You can't change teams. Seems like you guys would have got over that juvenile stuff when you won the WS?

No. I am a fan of my city.

Civic Pride>All.

[BigRedChief]

No. I am a fan of my city.

Civic Pride>All.I grew up in Springfield. The only thing in St. Louis l care about is the Cardinals. And a couple of friends that live there.

[O.city]

I grew up in Springfield. The only thing in St. Louis l care about is the Cardinals. And a couple of friends that live there.

Rogersville right?

[BigRedChief]

Rogersville right?Yep, both sides of my family settled in that small town pre-civil war. They were Baptist preachers looking to spread the gospel to this new part of the USA that was just being settled. A lot of family still live there including my brother. I lived there for 5 years. Grandpa lost his cow farm and we moved to Springfield. Lived in Springfield till 18.

Went back to Rogersville every weekend to see all the family. My grandma had a great radio. I loved listening to Jack Buck and Harry Carey broadcasting the Cardinal games on that radio. One of the best childhood memories. From that moment, I was a lifer.

[O.city]

Yep, both sides of my family settled in that small town pre-civil war. They were Baptist preachers looking to spread the gospel to this new part of the USA that was just being settled. A lot of family still live there including my brother. I lived there for 5 years. Grandpa lost his cow farm and we moved to Springfield. Lived in Springfield till 18.

Went back to Rogersville every weekend to see all the family. My grandma had a great radio. I loved listening to Jack Buck and Harry Carey broadcasting the Cardinal games on that radio. One of the best childhood memories. From that moment, I was a lifer.

Interesting

I grew up in Thayer MO so I’m not too far from home.

[VAChief]

Yep, both sides of my family settled in that small town pre-civil war. They were Baptist preachers looking to spread the gospel to this new part of the USA that was just being settled. A lot of family still live there including my brother. I lived there for 5 years. Grandpa lost his cow farm and we moved to Springfield. Lived in Springfield till 18.

Went back to Rogersville every weekend to see all the family. My grandma had a great radio. I loved listening to Jack Buck and Harry Carey broadcasting the Cardinal games on that radio. One of the best childhood memories. From that moment, I was a lifer.

What high school in Springfield?

[BigRedChief]

What high school in Springfield?l quit high school the day I turned 16 with a total of 1.5 credits. I attended Hillcrest and Glendale.

[VAChief]

l quit high school the day I turned 16 with a total of 1.5 credits. I attended Hillcrest and Glendale.

Our 2 biggest baseball rivalries! I was a Chief.

[jd1020]

Addison Reed only got 2/16.75? Wtf... Cubs? I am disappoint.

[BigRedChief]

Man I hope Oquendo can work some defensive magic this year.
------------------------------

Wong headed to Florida to work with DeJong, Oquendo

Cardinals second baseman Kolten Wong will report to Jupiter, Fla., on Monday -- weeks ahead of spring training -- in order to get some early work with shortstop Paul DeJong and third-base coach Jose Oquendo. Wong and DeJong, who has already been working out at the team's spring training facility, have been in contact and coordinating their meet to work together with Oquendo on double plays and fielding. Wong usually reports early to spring training to get some individual work in with coaches, and he suggested that Oquendo's return to the major-league staff will help him "get to the next level."

-- Derrick Goold

[BigRedChief]

First Cole, now Mccutchen

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SFGiants?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SFGiants</a> have agreed to acquire Andrew McCutchen from the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pirates?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pirates</a>, pending a review of medical records, sources tell The Athletic.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/952997921519259648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Marco Polo]

Yadi says he's hanging up his cleats after 2020. I bet our prized catching prospect starts getting more involved as soon as 2019. Is he ready now?

[raybec 4]

Our 2 biggest baseball rivalries! I was a Chief.

I went to Central

[BigRedChief]

l didn't know MLB's sale of its streaming company to Disney is going to put an additional $50 million in cash into each teams pocket this year. MLB approaching $10 Billion in revenue.

After the strike in the mid 90's some were saying baseball is now going to die a slow death. How times have changed.:eek:

[BigRedChief]

l didn't know MLB's sale of its streaming company to Disney is going to put an additional $50 million in cash into each teams pocket this year. MLB approaching $10 Billion in revenue.

After the strike in the mid 90's some were saying baseball is now going to die a slow death. How times have changed.:eek:and Dewitt......

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Owner Bill DeWitt Jr. downplayed the likelihood of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> striking again this offseason: &quot;I don&#39;t really anticipate a major move between now and Spring Training.&quot; <a href="https://t.co/9Kjab8X15C">https://t.co/9Kjab8X15C</a></p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/953278141266628608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Miles]

Shaping up like there might be some values as free agency drags on so slowly or teams like Pitt giving up stuff in payroll dump for an assortment of meh. Would be nice if the cards actually consider getting in on something.

[VAChief]

and Dewitt......

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Owner Bill DeWitt Jr. downplayed the likelihood of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> striking again this offseason: &quot;I don&#39;t really anticipate a major move between now and Spring Training.&quot; <a href="https://t.co/9Kjab8X15C">https://t.co/9Kjab8X15C</a></p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/953278141266628608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It would be pretty stupid for him to say he was anxious to make more deals. That is the kind of weakness that Boras and other agents would capitalize on. I would have liked to see them sign Reed. It seemed a reasonable risk for a guy who would probably be dependable, but he's not a huge upgrade if at all to what we already have so it's not a huge miss.

[BigRedChief]

It would be pretty stupid for him to say he was anxious to make more deals. That is the kind of weakness that Boras and other agents would capitalize on. I would have liked to see them sign Reed. It seemed a reasonable risk for a guy who would probably be dependable, but he's not a huge upgrade if at all to what we already have so it's not a huge miss.it would be best to sign anyone who can help now, give out long or longer term deals to players you want to keep right now. The price of every position and player is getting ready to skyrocket.

[raybec 4]

I'd like to see them bring Lynn back, they still need bullpen help too.

[VAChief]

it would be best to sign anyone who can help now, give out long or longer term deals to players you want to keep right now. The price of every position and player is getting ready to skyrocket.

Sure, if you get a good deal. We don't have to make a deal just to "on paper" fill a hole. It needs to be an upgrade or you wait until you do. I'm fine with trading prospects or a big FA signing for an impact player. I don't want to pay for someone on the decline. SanFran is stocking up of players with wonderful careers, it will remain to be seen if they will rise to those past years of production or continue their decline. McCutchen made sense for them because he rebounded somewhat off what looked like the beginning of the decline.

I don't mind a rebound guy as long as what you give up or pay is based on the risk involved.

[VAChief]

I went to Central

Steve Dunn was a great guy and a good player too.

[Miles]

The Blue Jays have agreed to acquire outfielder Randal Grichuk from the Cardinals, per a Toronto announcement. Righties Dominic Leone and Conner Greene will go to St. Louis in return.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/blue-jays-acquire-randal-grichuk.html

[Miles]

This Leone guy had nice stats last year.

[rico]

The Blue Jays have agreed to acquire outfielder Randal Grichuk from the Cardinals, per a Toronto announcement. Righties Dominic Leone and Conner Greene will go to St. Louis in return.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/blue-jays-acquire-randal-grichuk.html

Wow...interesting!!!

[rico]

This Leone guy had nice stats last year.

Yeah he does... and he's short...like an inch shorter than Roy Oswalt short (5'11)... I get a kick out of pitchers around this height pitching, and doing it well.

He has put up nice stats. I like this move.

[rico]

Hopefully this Conner Greene steps up and does his job better for us as a pitcher than Tyler Greene did as an infielder!!!

[BigRedChief]

Yeah he does... and he's short...like an inch shorter than Roy Oswalt short (5'11)... I get a kick out of pitchers around this height pitching, and doing it well.

He has put up nice stats. I like this move.bullpen help?

Glad to see we are resolving the outfielder log jam. Hopefully some of these guys turn into something.



Side note------Green Wikipedia:

Greene is an avid surfer, and has also worked as a model. He is friends with actor Charlie Sheen, and made several minor appearances on the television series Anger Management.

[dls6501]

My guy Tui is never going to get a shot. SMFH.

[BigRedChief]

My guy Tui is never going to get a shot. SMFH.he has never done anything close to this.......

Leone, also 26, was 3-0 with a 2.56 earned run average and 11 holds in 65 games, striking out 81 in 70 1.3 innings. Perhaps more importantly, he stranded 42 of 54 inherited runners (78 per cent), ranking fourth among American League relievers.

[raybec 4]

If they could get a solid closer they be in bidness

[dls6501]

he has never done anything close to this.......

Leone, also 26, was 3-0 with a 2.56 earned run average and 11 holds in 65 games, striking out 81 in 70 1.3 innings. Perhaps more importantly, he stranded 42 of 54 inherited runners (78 per cent), ranking fourth among American League relievers.

What you just said doesnt change what I said in the slightest bit.

[rico]

he has never done anything close to this.......

Leone, also 26, was 3-0 with a 2.56 earned run average and 11 holds in 65 games, striking out 81 in 70 1.3 innings. Perhaps more importantly, he stranded 42 of 54 inherited runners (78 per cent), ranking fourth among American League relievers.

I love it.

[Jewish Rabbi]

What you just said doesnt change what I said in the slightest bit.

Except for the fact he gets torched every time he’s brought up.

[BigRedChief]

Except for the fact he gets torched every time he’s brought up.even with the new bullpen adds it's still a thin bullpen. He will get another chance to succeed this season. But, so far your right, eventually MLB players knock him around hard.

[bdj23]

Ozuna, Pham and Fowler is a pretty decent outfield, correct?

[KC_Connection]

Anything I should know about Grichuk?

[BigRedChief]

Anything I should know about Grichuk?absolute raw natural power. Capable of hitting 500 ft. HR's without putting his best swing on the ball. Hit it out swinging one handed. Great speed in the outfield. Will make highlight reel catches. But doesn't take the best path to the ball.

His problem is that he can't lay off or recognize the cutter in the dirt or outside. At times it's better. But, he reverts back to swinging at that crap. So he will kill rallies and hit .240

He ever learns to lay off that pitch consistently he's an All-Star.

[KC_Connection]

absolute raw natural power. Capable of hitting 500 ft. HR's without putting his best swing on the ball. Hit it out swinging one handed. Great speed in the outfield. Will make highlight reel catches. But doesn't take the best path to the ball.

His problem is that he can't lay off or recognize the cutter in the dirt or outside. At times it's better. But, he reverts back to swinging at that crap. So he will kill rallies and hit .240

He ever learns to lay off that pitch consistently he's an All-Star.
He's old enough now that he will never learn to do that. I assume the Jays think they can accentuate what he actually can do (his power) and possibly replace Pillar in center in the next year or two.

[BigRedChief]

He's old enough now that he will never learn to do that. I assume the Jays think they can accentuate what he actually can do (his power) and possibly replace Pillar in center in the next year or two.probably. That's why you got a player with such great natural power for a bullpen guy.

[raybec 4]

He's old enough now that he will never learn to do that. I assume the Jays think they can accentuate what he actually can do (his power) and possibly replace Pillar in center in the next year or two.

He has ZERO understanding of the strike zone. Grichuk thinks plate discipline is a way not to get fat.

[Swanman]

He's old enough now that he will never learn to do that. I assume the Jays think they can accentuate what he actually can do (his power) and possibly replace Pillar in center in the next year or two.

He absolutely kills cripple pitches. As DJ said many times, he is a perfect No. 7 hitter in the NL (so a 7 or 8 in the AL). He will murder bad middle relievers who miss over the plate. When he does go through short stretches of not swinging at slop, his numbers become ungodly. Unfortunately, he did that for a total of like 2 weeks during his entire career with the Cards.

[dls6501]

Except for the fact he gets torched every time he’s brought up.

Yeah his 2.55 ERA and 1.08 whip last year proves what you just said to be absolutely false.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Ozuna, Pham and Fowler is a pretty decent outfield, correct?

2 out of 3...

[raybec 4]

2 out of 3...

Pham, had a career year last year but I'm not convinced it's sustainable.

[VAChief]

Pham, had a career year last year but I'm not convinced it's sustainable.

I expect some regression. If he stays healthy (and they can keep his eyesight adjustments on track) I think we will get plus production both offensively and defensively (above league averages) in a key position.

His plate discipline and plate coverage is excellent. One year wonders are usually because they have holes that can be exploited. His hole will be his sight. If he can see fine, I doubt we see a significant dip in production.

The huge plus is he costs us peanuts.

[VAChief]

This is the player I am more curious about whether he is for real.

"The best hitter you know nothing about"

https://www.mlb.com/news/jose-martinez-has-earned-playing-time-in-2018/c-264948180

[BigRedChief]

I expect some regression. If he stays healthy (and they can keep his eyesight adjustments on track) I think we will get plus production both offensively and defensively (above league averages) in a key position.

His plate discipline and plate coverage is excellent. One year wonders are usually because they have holes that can be exploited. His hole will be his sight. If he can see fine, I doubt we see a significant dip in production.

The huge plus is he costs us peanuts.and because of his injury history and eyesight, he’s not worth anything in trade what is value is to us if he can repeat 2017.

[bdj23]

Just booked my hotel for opening day weekend.

April 5th 6th and 7th @ the Hyatt Regency at the Arch.

I've never been to opening day before, there is a lot a of hoopla before the game right? Don't they have a parade? Anyone know when single game tix go on sale? I think late Feb.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Just booked my hotel for opening day weekend.

April 5th 6th and 7th @ the Hyatt Regency at the Arch.

I've never been to opening day before, there is a lot a of hoopla before the game right? Don't they have a parade? Anyone know when single game tix go on sale? I think late Feb.

Should be especially fun this year, usually the Home Opener is a day game. 6:15 start this year, which means people will be lubed up and ready to go.

I'd plan to hit Paddy O's starting around 11.

[bdj23]

Should be especially fun this year, usually the Home Opener is a day game. 6:15 start this year, which means people will be lubed up and ready to go.

I'd plan to hit Paddy O's starting around 11.

That's usually where i go pre-game!

[VAChief]

Just booked my hotel for opening day weekend.

April 5th 6th and 7th @ the Hyatt Regency at the Arch.

I've never been to opening day before, there is a lot a of hoopla before the game right? Don't they have a parade? Anyone know when single game tix go on sale? I think late Feb.

Enjoy! I have only made two opening days. One in St. Louis at Busch II in 1981 vs the Phillies, great seats behind home plate and one row behind the Phillies. wives. We were brutal to them as drunk college assholes can be.

Second one was ironically in Philly in 2006, Rolen is booed vociferously, then proceeds to hit 2 homers and send them home losers. I enjoyed their foiled rath as much as just about any regular season victory in memory.

St. Louis puts on a great show, have a blast, hopefully I’ll be able to get back there for another one some day.

[BigRedChief]

Brewers get Yelich

OF Lewis Brinson, OF Monte Harrison, INF Isan Diaz and RHP Jordan Yamamoto. #1, #5 and #9 in BA's Top-10

Good deal? What would have been a comparable deal from us?

[ChiefsCountry]

Brewers get Yelich

OF Lewis Brinson, OF Monte Harrison, INF Isan Diaz and RHP Jordan Yamamoto. #1, #5 and #9 in BA's Top-10

Good deal? What would have been a comparable deal from ya?

And they just signed Lorenzo Cain.

[BigRedChief]

And they just signed Lorenzo Cain.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Outfield by combined WAR:<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>: 13.4<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brewers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Brewers</a>: 10.1<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cubs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cubs</a>: 3.6</p>&mdash; Cardinals Rant (@CardinalsRant_) <a href="https://twitter.com/CardinalsRant_/status/956712882716082176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The sad part is how meh the Cards OF is...

[BigRedChief]

The sad part is how meh the Cards OF is...quick look at brewers fan boards is ugly. They think Binson is going to be better than Yelich and had to give up more on top of Bindon.

[BigRedChief]

And they just signed Lorenzo Cain.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lorenzo Cain has agreed on a 5-year, $80M deal with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brewers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Brewers</a>, source says. It’s the biggest free agent contract of the offseason. The deal includes no-trade protection and significant award bonuses. Milwaukee building a super outfield with addition of Yelich and Cain.</p>&mdash; Jerry Crasnick (@jcrasnick) <a href="https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/956685103878557696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Miles]

Seems like 1 year too many for a CF that's about to hit 32.

[jd1020]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Outfield by combined WAR:<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>: 13.4<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brewers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Brewers</a>: 10.1<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cubs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cubs</a>: 3.6</p>&mdash; Cardinals Rant (@CardinalsRant_) <a href="https://twitter.com/CardinalsRant_/status/956712882716082176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'd still take the Cubs OF over the Cards, assuming that the Cubs put Almora lead off and not fucking Schwarber.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Heyturd is that bad

[jd1020]

Heyturd is that bad

Defensively I'll take him in RF over Fowler.

Last year was Almora's first year actually playing a meaningful number of games and you could really see his progress at the plate as the season went on. He was probably having the best consistently good AB's of any Cubs player.

And as long as Schwarber isn't leading off I dont see why he cant match or beat Ozuna's offense. I'm eager to see what he looks like in the field this year since hes been working all offseason on his body.

I don't expect Ozuna or Pham to maintain what they did last season.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Pham is a .270 20 HR guy. In the 2 or 3 Meh.....He s a 6-7 guy

[BigRedChief]

PECOTA sees the Cardinals finishing the season 84-78. What say you?

I think it’s too low. Going with 88 wins.

[raybec 4]

PECOTA sees the Cardinals finishing the season 84-78. What say you?

I think it’s too low. Going with 88 wins.

Either way, if they stand pat with their current bull pen and rotation they won't make the post season.

[Miles]

Rotation really seems like it could use another proven arm. Hoping there might be some decent values with many of the top FA starting pitchers still on the market but haven’t read of any interest shown by the cards.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Still need a 2 or 3 hole hitter. Top is a joke.

[VAChief]

PECOTA sees the Cardinals finishing the season 84-78. What say you?

I think it’s too low. Going with 88 wins.

Rotation is driving that down now. Too many ifs...

[jd1020]

Rotation is driving that down now. Too many ifs...

Not sure why the Cardinals are so damn loyal to Wainwright and aren't being linked to either Arrieta or Darvish. Maybe they are just holding out for Kershaw next year because the Dodgers are clearly going to let him walk away after he opts out.

[VAChief]

Not sure why the Cardinals are so damn loyal to Wainwright and aren't being linked to either Arrieta or Darvish. Maybe they are just holding out for Kershaw next year because the Dodgers are clearly going to let him walk away after he opts out.

I doubt they are serious about Kershaw. I did think they might go after a middle of the rotation guy. Mikolas could easily be a bust.

[Miles]

Apparently they only spend big on shitty back of rotation guys like leake.

[VAChief]

Mega deals for starters don’t have a great track record.

[BigRedChief]

Apparently they only spend big on shitty back of rotation guys like leake.

Mega deals for starters don’t have a great track record.This!

These deals for 30-32 year old pitchers just dont fit us. They never work out. We should not be sacrificing later to win this year. This isn't our year to make a push.

the only one we ever missed out on was Scherzer's contract 7/$210 million. That off season it seemed that we were not hurting for pitching that year but having a local kid back..... missed opportunity.

Next year with Reyes at full speed our minor league pitching maturing, I think combining that with us sign/spending some money for offense, we will be competitive again.

[jd1020]

I dont think either Arrieta or Darvish is looking at a "mega deal."

I think 5 years is probably what they'll get, maybe 6 with an option, and an opt out somewhere in there. Less than a Jon Lester deal.

[Rams Fan]

Not sure why the Cardinals are so damn loyal to Wainwright and aren't being linked to either Arrieta or Darvish. Maybe they are just holding out for Kershaw next year because the Dodgers are clearly going to let him walk away after he opts out.

It's simple.

Wainwright is a franchise icon. With his production. The last 2 years, really 3, he his production hasn't been that good.

Cardinals FO is perfectly fine with letting him and Yadi right into the sunset, like they would've if the Angels weren't stupid.

[jd1020]

Wainwright is a franchise icon. With his production. The last 2 years, really 3, he his production hasn't been that good.

Understatement of the century. He's been awful. Mike Leake was a better option. Loyal to a fault.

[Rams Fan]

Understatement of the century. He's been awful. Mike Leake was a better option. Loyal to a fault.

I am not disagreeing.

This can be seen from other teams as well.

Jeter and the Yankees, David Wright and the Mets, Todd Helton and the Rockies.

[BigRedChief]

I dont think either Arrieta or Darvish is looking at a "mega deal."

I think 5 years is probably what they'll get, maybe 6 with an option, and an opt out somewhere in there. Less than a Jon Lester deal.thats the problem. That’s not a “reasonable” contract. A team guarantees an aging player in your prime money into their mid 30’s. What pitcher was in their prime in their mid-30’s? And if somehow they have a couple of good years, they can move on to a better contract.

Teams are guaranteeing everything and giving them a no trade clause. There is no cost to the player if it goes bad, only to the team.

Now, this only applies to these 30+ year old players that are wanting long term deals. <30 are still making bank.

[bdj23]

Cubs sign Yu Darvish to 6/150 million

[Miles]

So much for suspecting he may get something more reasonable due to the market. Fuck that.

[Hoover]

Cubs sign Yu Darvish to 6/150 million
Actually 6/126

[jd1020]

Actually 6/126

Cubs sign Yu Darvish to 6/150 million

For Darvish to reach $150M he would have to earn multiple Cy Young awards. I would say $21M/yr for Darvish when guys like Samardzija are getting 18 is pretty reasonable.

If he does earn that $24M incentive then you really cant argue he wasnt worth the money.

[bdj23]

Actually 6/126

Draftkings Live originally reported 6/150. My bad.

[Miles]

6/126 actually seems like a decent deal but sounds like they gave an opt out after just 2 seasons.

[jd1020]

6/126 actually seems like a decent deal but sounds like they gave an opt out after just 2 seasons.

Dont see him exercising that opt out unless the Dodgers or Yankees become players for him again, since those teams were his first choice but they didnt want to exceed the luxury cap. I can't imagine him making more money over the next 4 years with a new deal unless he goes ape shit, which I wont complain about.

[BigRedChief]

A team guarantees an aging player in your prime money into their mid 30’s. And if somehow they have a couple of good years, they can move on to a better contract.

Teams are guaranteeing everything and giving them a no trade clause. There is no cost to the player if it goes bad, only to the team.
And another example.

6/126 actually seems like a decent deal but sounds like they gave an opt out after just 2 seasons.

[BigRedChief]

Why not give him 3 years of good money? Wacha cant pitch to teams a 3rd time. Waino is a big ? and hope success in Japan translates to MLB?


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a> shouldn’t give Arrieta a lot of years, but you give him a lot of money. The Cardinals have a lot of cash. Have you looked at the starting staff? Do you not think Arrieta would help?</p>&mdash; Frank Cusumano (@Frank_Cusumano) <a href="https://twitter.com/Frank_Cusumano/status/962432472716890112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[bdj23]

Does anyone know when single game tickets go on sale?

[jd1020]

Why not give him 3 years of good money? Wacha cant pitch to teams a 3rd time. Waino is a big ? and hope success in Japan translates to MLB?


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a> shouldn’t give Arrieta a lot of years, but you give him a lot of money. The Cardinals have a lot of cash. Have you looked at the starting staff? Do you not think Arrieta would help?</p>&mdash; Frank Cusumano (@Frank_Cusumano) <a href="https://twitter.com/Frank_Cusumano/status/962432472716890112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Arrieta turned down 4/110 from the Cubs. Boras is not going to let him sign for 3 years because he'll likely lose out on several million over the remainder of his career.

[jd1020]

Arrieta turned down 4/110 from the Cubs. Boras is not going to let him sign for 3 years because he'll likely lose out on several million over the remainder of his career.

Apparently before the Cubs signed Darvish, they went to Arrieta with the same offer and he turned it down. So good luck getting him to sign a 3 year deal.

[BigRedChief]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Free-agent right-hander Bud Norris in agreement with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>, pending a physical, sources tell The Athletic. Excelled in first half with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Angels?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Angels</a> last season, but performance suffered after right knee inflammation twice forced him to DL.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/963073539074150405?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[O.city]

Key to a World Series

Yippie

[Rams Fan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Free-agent right-hander Bud Norris in agreement with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>, pending a physical, sources tell The Athletic. Excelled in first half with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Angels?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Angels</a> last season, but performance suffered after right knee inflammation twice forced him to DL.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/963073539074150405?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Since the Cardinals are absolute shit against Bud Norris, they decided to sign him.

Brilliant.

[VAChief]

Since the Cardinals are absolute shit against Bud Norris, they decided to sign him.

Brilliant.

Yes, about 8 years ago. The dude has a career ERA+ of 89. Sounds like a great signing! :banghead:

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I 70 Series is gonna be a sack of shit

[Miles]

Didn’t realize he was still in the league. Apparently switched to a relief role last year.

[Miles]

3M plus significant incentives for a guy I was expecting might have been signed to a minor league deal/invite.

[BigRedChief]

Didn’t realize he was still in the league. Apparently switched to a relief role last year.im assuming he is an additional long relief guy to backstop Wacha and Waino when they leave early.

[KChiefs1]

You guys signed Bud Norris? Why not Jason Vargas?

Wish you guys would sign Hosmer or Moose or both. Would give me a reason to follow the Cards.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Cardinals are throwing numbers at the bullpen, which isn't a bad plan given the volatility of relief pitchers. Norris was actually pretty good for the Angels last year before he got hurt. Looks like he's relying more on the cutter, and his fastball is average enough.

[BigRedChief]

The Cardinals are throwing numbers at the bullpen, which isn't a bad plan given the volatility of relief pitchers. Yep, their value has went up. Every team wants more relievers.

[VAChief]

Might as well throw Mitchell Boggs and Kyle McClellan into the mix.

[Marcellus]

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/80/4803cfff-0195-59b3-9b6d-61c127156502/5a8336f1a9294.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C914

[BigRedChief]

Coming from truly dirt poor to driving anything you desire.:clap: Still dresses old school middle class.:rolleyes:

His skills may be diminishing because of age but he is still working hard to stay in shape. He lives in Jupiter in the off season to keep working between vacations. Spends time with the minor leaguers there coaching them up.

I loved the guy ever since the NY playoff game when I had already had tickets to the WS. He made it possible for me and my son to see a WS won in person. Forever grateful.

When he is done, he's going to get "something" at the stadium. Statue, area named after him etc.

[BigRedChief]

Might as well throw Mitchell Boggs and Kyle McClellan into the mix.Why not? Sign DJ up. keep the bodies coming.

Meathead is going to run a successful reliever into the ground so we are going to need more bodies.

[bdj23]

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/80/4803cfff-0195-59b3-9b6d-61c127156502/5a8336f1a9294.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C914

Jorts and a neck tattoo. Does Yadi live in Lee's Summit in the offseason?

[raybec 4]

Jorts and a neck tattoo. Does Yadi live in Lee's Summit in the offseason?

He looks like an El Chapo errand boy

[bdj23]

He looks like an El Chapo errand boy

I still love him though.

[raybec 4]

I still love him though.

Yep, best catcher the cards have had in my lifetime.

[Miles]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/cardinals-to-sign-jason-motte.html

The Cardinals have struck a minor-league pact with veteran reliever Jason Motte, per Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (via Twitter). The agreement is still pending a physical. Chris Cotillo of SB Nation first connected the sides on Twitter.

Motte, 35, rejoins his long-time organization after a three-year hiatus. The former Cards closer has spent time with the Cubs, Rockies, and Braves since the start of 2015.

There’s little question that Motte did not regain his prior form after missing all of 2013 for Tommy John surgery. The converted catcher had posted 192 1/3 innings of 2.43 ERA pitching over the prior three seasons at that point. Since, he has allowed 4.12 earned per nine over 137 2/3 innings, with 6.7 K/9 against 3.1 BB/9.

Motte once averaged about a 12 percent swinging-strike rate and roughly 97 mph heater. Since returning from surgery, Motte has declined precipitously in both regards. He generated whiffs at a marginal 7.6% rate last year and averaged 93.8 mph with his heater.

To be fair, Motte found a way to succeed despite managing only 6.0 K/9 against 4.4 BB/9 in his 40 2/3 innings in 2017. He ended the season with a 3.54 ERA, after all. But there’s little reason to believe that Motte will be able to replicate a .200 batting average on balls in play.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Brought back Motte JFC ROFL

[Miles]

Brought back Motte JFC ROFL

Also signed Mujica to a minors deal a couple weeks back.

[BigRedChief]

Brought back Motte JFC ROFLI understand putting together a huge bucket of relievers and see who still has it, has recovered to prior form or is ascending. And I approve.

Relievers in 2018 are a violate bunch, You never know from year to year what performance you will get from these guys.

I hope that its just a friendly deal to retire a Cardinal. He was a fun guy to watch in 2011. He contributed significantly to that championship. Was more of a down to earth player than most. I liked the guy a lot. But, as a MLB pitcher, he is done.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Also signed Mujica to a minors deal a couple weeks back.

:deevee: fuck

[bdj23]

I always liked Motte, but does he have anything left? I guess a minor league deal can't hurt.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I understand putting together a huge bucket of relievers and see who still has it, has recovered to prior form or is ascending. And I approve.

Relievers in 2018 are a violate bunch, You never know from year to year what performance you will get from these guys.

I hope that its just a friendly deal to retire a Cardinal. He was a fun guy to watch in 2011. He contributed significantly to that championship. Was more of a down to earth player than most. I liked the guy a lot. But, as a MLB pitcher, he is done.

Izzy, Franklin, and Big Cheeks have as good a shot as these scrubs...

[BigRedChief]

Izzy, Franklin, and Big Cheeks have as good a shot as these scrubs...motte? Yes. Norris? He might have some value if he pitches like the first half of the season. None of these guys are making bank so it’s not a gamble that hampers us.

[VAChief]

I always liked Motte, but does he have anything left? I guess a minor league deal can't hurt.

I liked Motte, but no he has nothing left. Honestly even 2011 Motte would not be as effective now. His velocity then stood out still, it wouldn’t be enough now. Hitters see too many of those now. He would need at least an average secondary pitch that he could throw for a strike. Kimbrel has had staying power as a closer because he can drop that hammer for a strike with consistency. Something Rosie could show at times, but far from consistently.

[VAChief]

I think they know these guys are all crap, but they think they have in house options that are within a year away and they don’t want to pay a reliever or starter for a multi year deal when they think they can fill in next year from depth. I think they still could have gotten a Reed for the pen in that same thought process. They are also banking big on a Waino miracle.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

They're minor league deals. They mean nothing. It's an invite, not a spot on the club.

[raybec 4]

I hear Dave Veres and Jeff Fasero are available.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I hear Dave Veres and Jeff Fasero are available.

I would take the Hungarian over bringing that turd Motte back.

[BigRedChief]

I would take the Hungarian over bringing that turd Motte back.
Motte ain’t making this team.

[O.city]

Carp already having back issues. So that’s nice

[BigRedChief]

Carp already having back issues. So that’s nicebigger issue is him not batting leadoff. He has some mental block about not batting lead off. We lost games because they dropped him in the lineup. He goes back to leadoff and he’s back to his old self.

Maybe he’s over that mental thing now?

[O.city]

They should have traded him at the deadline last year anyway but yeah he’s a headcase

[BigRedChief]

They should have traded him at the deadline last year anyway but yeah he’s a headcaselooks like the Cards are hoping Martinez can at least be a functional MLB player for the times Carp is out.

[BigRedChief]

Flaherty looked really good today.

Hicks is going to be our closer in 2018. His fastball/slider will play well right now at the MLB level. Excellent movement on both pitches.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Flaherty looked really good today.

Hicks is going to be our closer in 2018. His fastball/slider will play well right now at the MLB level. Excellent movement on both pitches.
He's too good of a prospect to relegate to the bullpen.

[BigRedChief]

He's too good of a prospect to relegate to the bullpen.Its the first time I've ever saw his pitch. I know its spring training. But, facing Miami's low quality hitters was irrelevant to the movement on his pitches.

I was impressed with the movement on his fastball, that thing jumps on the hitter. I dont know how hitters are going to square it up. His slider looked like the fastball down the middle and it ends up off the plate.

Waino, Martinez both started out in the bullpen and then moved on to starting. Why cant he?

[bdj23]

Picked up tickets to the first 3 games of the openeing homestand yesterday.

Can't wait!

[BigRedChief]

Picked up tickets to the first 3 games of the openeing homestand yesterday.

Can't wait!Never been to an opening day game. It's on the bucket list.

[VAChief]

Mikolas looked like as in his first outing. Not impressed at all.

[bdj23]

Mikolas looked like as in his first outing. Not impressed at all.

He got shelled

[Jewish Rabbi]

Mikolas looked like as in his first outing. Not impressed at all.

Someone has to replace Mike Leakes production!

[BigRedChief]

Someone has to replace Mike Leakes production!ROFL

[O.city]

Just gonna be another meh year. Mo so scared to do anything, only way he can succeed is if his farm system just blows people away.

[BigRedChief]

Going tomorrow to see Flaherty pitch live in a spring training game. Beautiful weather expected.

[Rams Fan]

Just gonna be another meh year. Mo so scared to do anything, only way he can succeed is if his farm system just blows people away.

2018 isn't the year this team should be viewing to contend for a WS.

It should be 2019.

[Dallas Chief]

Anybody coming over to Jupiter to catch a game? Let me know. I'm about a 5 min walk from the stadium. Can grab some beers after or whatever.

[BigRedChief]

Anybody coming over to Jupiter to catch a game? Let me know. I'm about a 5 min walk from the stadium. Can grab some beers after or whatever.l was going to go over to Roger Dean this year but life got in the way of a weekend out of town free time. Best l was to do was a day game tomorrow in Sarasota.

[BigRedChief]

2018 isn't the year this team should be viewing to contend for a WS.

It should be 2019.Martinez/Reyes/Weaver/Flaherty/ 5th spot(multiple options) should be good enough to stack up as a playoff team rotation in 2019.

Still need to add some offense in the 2018-19 off season but they have tons of money to buy a top quality bat.

[O.city]

Lol buy a quality bet?

Unless a 12th round nobody magically develops into the next pujols they ain’t buying a bat

[BigRedChief]

Lol buy a quality bet?

Unless a 12th round nobody magically develops into the next pujols they ain’t buying a batSunce you have abandoned all hope, maybe you can become a Cubs or Yankees fan now?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

2018 isn't the year this team should be viewing to contend for a WS.

It should be 2019.

Lulz. Not happening

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Sunce you have abandoned all hope, maybe you can become a Cubs or Yankees fan now?

The team needs an enema.

[BigRedChief]

The team needs an enema.I disagree. It's been a couple of average years. We are not use to that so it stands out. We need a new manager and for whatever reason our owner loves the guy.

They did get Ozuna this off season. That was not the incremental move we are use to from the FO. We have always had a top 10 payroll. We were 14 last year and this year 12th so far. If we are average again this year and they dont spend the money on one of those big time FA next year, I'll join ya and Ocity in your depression.

We need more offense in 2019 but our pitching in 2019 will be playoff caliber.

I'm going to spend the afternoon in the Florida sunshine. 77 degrees with the ocean breeze blowing in watching my team. It's still enjoyable to me.

[O.city]

As some here have put it more eloquently than I can, they're scared.

They need to pay big for a bat to play 3rd base. Doubtful it happens.

[jd1020]

As some here have put it more eloquently than I can, they're scared.

They need to pay big for a bat to play 3rd base. Doubtful it happens.

Even if they pay big, StL hasnt been a preferred destination for big name free agents in a while.

Donaldson is your best hope because his age and cost will scare some teams away, but Machado will have his choice of the lot.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I disagree. It's been a couple of average years. We are not use to that so it stands out. We need a new manager and for whatever reason our owner loves the guy.

They did get Ozuna this off season. That was not the incremental move we are use to from the FO. We have always had a top 10 payroll. We were 14 last year and this year 12th so far. If we are average again this year and they dont spend the money on one of those big time FA next year, I'll join ya and Ocity in your depression.

We need more offense in 2019 but our pitching in 2019 will be playoff caliber.

I'm going to spend the afternoon in the Florida sunshine. 77 degrees with the ocean breeze blowing in watching my team. It's still enjoyable to me.

That's not enough. They don't even have a 3 hole hitter.

[O.city]

Even if they pay big, StL hasnt been a preferred destination for big name free agents in a while.

Donaldson is your best hope because his age and cost will scare some teams away, but Machado will have his choice of the lot.

Cause they haven't been willing to pay top dollar.

Just offer enough to come in 2nd.

[jd1020]

Cause they haven't been willing to pay top dollar.

Just offer enough to come in 2nd.

Not true. They've offered more for players than they have taken elsewhere.

[O.city]

Not true. They've offered more for players than they have taken elsewhere.

Who would that be? Don't remember that being the case.

[O.city]

Heyward maybe?

[jd1020]

Who would that be? Don't remember that being the case.

Heyward.

Stanton. While Stanton wasn't a money issue, the Cardinals had the best offer on the table and Stanton said no.

How quickly you forget. Or maybe you just want to stick with the narrative of the Cardinals not trying.

[O.city]

Heyward.

Stanton. While Stanton wasn't a money issue, the Cardinals had the best offer on the table and Stanton said no.

How quickly you forget. Or maybe you just want to stick with the narrative of the Cardinals not trying.

So one example where they offered the most money but the guy went elsewhere?

[jd1020]

So one example where they offered the most money but the guy went elsewhere?

I just gave you 2 examples?

[O.city]

I just gave you 2 examples?

You just said Stanton wasn't a money issue?

[jd1020]

You just said Stanton wasn't a money issue?

He's already getting paid. They had the best offer on the table for him and the Marlins preferred to send him to StL, but the guy in control, much like a free agent, said no.

Are you really this obtuse?

[O.city]

He's already getting paid. They had the best offer on the table for him and the Marlins preferred to send him to StL, but the guy in control, much like a free agent, said no.

Are you really this obtuse?

Are we really using 2, really just 1 instance to prove something?

Heyward didn't want to be the alpha so he went to Chicago to blend in and get paid. I'm not sure that's the best example but it works.

Stanton was never going to come to the Midwest. Didn't matter. Again, maybe it's the new norm. I'm skeptical.

[O.city]

Can we now list the other examples where the Cardinals chose not to go be the highest bidder? I'm gonna say that list is bigger than 2.

[jd1020]

I'm skeptical.

Be skeptical, then. Your choice to ignore the facts in front of you. They've made the best offer to 2 of the biggest named players available in 3 years and both said no to a perennial playoff team.

[jd1020]

Can we now list the other examples where the Cardinals chose not to go be the highest bidder? I'm gonna say that list is bigger than 2.

Name the ones you regret them missing out on, in hindsight.

Pujols?

Heyward?

I'm not a Cardinals fan so you can help out a little here, I'm assuming.

[O.city]

Be skeptical, then. Your choice to ignore the facts in front of you. They've made the best offer to 2 of the biggest named players available in 3 years and both said no to a perennial playoff team.

I'm gonna say we need more than 2 instances to determine if this is a trend but carry on.

Especially when we have the amount of situations that have gone the other way in the past however many years we wanna set.

[O.city]

Name the ones you regret them missing out on, in hindsight.

Pujols?

Heyward?

I'm not a Cardinals fan so you can help out a little here, I'm assuming.

Regret them missing out on?

They had David Price all wrapped up and the Sox came in at the last minute with a bigger deal and the Cards chose not to go there.

The dude that pitched at MU and was basically a home grown kid that they didn't wanna overspend on would be another.

The Pujols thing is what it is. I'd have preferred to have kept him, but once the amount of money came in there, it was done.

[O.city]

Also the organizations ability to celebrate "coming in 2nd" in terms of free agent deals is probably a pretty damning fact in my mind.

[raybec 4]

He's already getting paid. They had the best offer on the table for him and the Marlins preferred to send him to StL, but the guy in control, much like a free agent, said no.

Are you really this obtuse?

I honestly feel like Matheny is not a guy people want to play for. He's a terrible in game manager and he has the reputation of picking clubhouse favorites.

[jd1020]

Regret them missing out on?

They had David Price all wrapped up and the Sox came in at the last minute with a bigger deal and the Cards chose not to go there.

The dude that pitched at MU and was basically a home grown kid that they didn't wanna overspend on would be another.

The Pujols thing is what it is. I'd have preferred to have kept him, but once the amount of money came in there, it was done.

So you regret them coming in 2nd on the bidding for a guy who signed a $200M contract and is now in the bullpen? Ok...

Good to see you brought a real strong argument to the table.

[O.city]

So you regret them coming in 2nd on the bidding for a guy who signed a $200M contract and is now in the bullpen? Ok...

Good to see you brought a real strong argument to the table.

True, but he also would have been in the national league and possibly played out differently as the Sox rode him in the ground IIRC, and he pitched a crazy amount of innings.

But I also don't really know how strong of an argument the Heyward one is when he's clearly shown to have been over paid and not worth the contract. Looks like everyone dropped the ball there.

[jd1020]

It's a hell of a lot better than an argument from a Cardinals fan saying they don't try and can't name a single player they came in 2nd on that doesn't look like an albatross today.

[O.city]

I'm to lazy to look up the many examples we've had the last couple years where we'eve been fed "we tried, just came up short, gotta keep the powder dry" so ok.


And sure they try. The try just hard enough to appear they try hard.

[O.city]

Couple of the international signings come to mind as well where they didn't want to "overspend"

[O.city]

But I guess I shouldn't be too upset over it when the last couple big free agent spends they had were Mike Leake and Fowler.

[BigRedChief]

That's not enough. They don't even have a 3 hole hitter.today l saw our new 2019 SS and #3 hitter hit a grand slam. Just need to pay him $300 million. Overpay, get in first. We have the money to overpay.

[BigRedChief]

It's a hell of a lot better than an argument from a Cardinals fan saying they don't try and can't name a single player they came in 2nd on that doesn't look like an albatross today.glad we came in 2nd with Pujols, Hayward and Price.

[BigRedChief]

Munoz who We got in the Piscotty trade put on a big time show in batting practice. He hit at least 4 out of the ballpark. Another 6 home runs into the stands. Then he turns around in the game and hits 2 Home runs in one inning. I thought this guy was a scrub. He was impressive at least today.

Here is a pic of Oquendo working with him on his footwork in the outfield. He mostly played RF today. Maybe they want him to change to the OF?

[VAChief]

Munoz who We got in the Piscotty trade put on a big time show in batting practice. He hit at least 4 out of the ballpark. Another 6 home runs into the stands. Then he turns around in the game and hits 2 Home runs in one inning. I thought this guy was a scrub. He was impressive at least today.

Here is a pic of Oquendo working with him on his footwork in the outfield. He mostly played RF today. Maybe they want him to change to the OF?

He played SS the other day.

[BigRedChief]

He played SS the other day.I'm sure it was a great day for Munoz. Way above average. But, the power l witnessed in person, was in no way a fluke. He has natural power. That said, l have no idea if he strikes out too much, doesn’t take walks, can’t layoff the slider or whatever negative baggage he brings to his offense.

I’m sure the Cardinals have and are probably trying to figure out how to get his bat in the lineup more often. No way it was happenstance he was working with Oquendo personally and they are playing him a lot in different positions.

[bdj23]

Cy Norris is getting shelled early on

[raybec 4]

Cy Norris is getting shelled early on

Well that's a shock, Norris and Waino combined I'd be surprised if they collected 15 wins.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Not a fuck given about this season

[Marcellus]

Not a **** given about this season

LMAO

[raybec 4]

Not a **** given about this season

I'm certainly not there yet man. You are acting like they're the 90's Royals

[BigRedChief]

I'm certainly not there yet man. You are acting like they're the 90's Royalsno shit. they are still a winning ball club. They have barely missed the playoffs. If they did make the playoffs, they would have got smoked but they are not losing 100 games depression worthy.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hopefully they do drop 100. House cleaning...

[Simply Red]

Hopefully they do drop 100. House cleaning...

fark u

[Pasta Little Brioni]

fark u

Braves too :)

[BigRedChief]

Hopefully they do drop 100. House cleaning...You dont seem nice.

[bdj23]

Mikolas seems like he sucks

[bdj23]

Cards extend Dejong 6/26

[BigRedChief]

Mikolas seems like he sucksWe have lots of quality pitching on the way. Flaherty will fit right into his spot this year. Hudson can take Waino's spot net year or at the All-Star break if Waino falters big time. Our main issue is the same one we have had for the recent past, offense.
Cards extend Dejong 6/26I watched the broadcast yesterday and they were selling up how good DeJong was at SS. Not that he had fantastic range or arm but that he had good instincts. They showed a routine ground ball and talked about how good his instincts were to field that ball..... I thought that was really strange. Now, I know.

$26 million down the drain if he goes into a full on Diaz meltdown mode isn't much. Avoid arbitration and if he plays close to what he did last year, he's locked in until age 31. Get another year of control of his prime years. I like these cheap bets.

If Mikolas and Dejong both fail, its still a lot less money than we got just this year from MLB selling some tech developed on mlb.com. Baseball is awash in money.

[Marco Polo]

Dejong extension seems reasonable. At worst, he can be a young platoon player within the infield if he regresses.

[oldandslow]

Dejong extension seems reasonable. At worst, he can be a young platoon player within the infield if he regresses.

Yeah 4mil a year plus 2 option years is fine.

I have no problems with this.

If he regresses, you trade him.

[O.city]

He had a long time left before you need to make this decision.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's not financially crippling, but that's just dumb as fuck.

[raybec 4]

It's not financially crippling, but that's just dumb as ****.

Perfect description of 95% of the moves Mo has made in his tenure.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Lulz

[Miles]

Seems unnecessarily early...

[raybec 4]

We have lots of quality pitching on the way. Flaherty will fit right into his spot this year. Hudson can take Waino's spot net year or at the All-Star break if Waino falters big time. Our main issue is the same one we have had for the recent past, offense.
I watched the broadcast yesterday and they were selling up how good DeJong was at SS. Not that he had fantastic range or arm but that he had good instincts. They showed a routine ground ball and talked about how good his instincts were to field that ball..... I thought that was really strange. Now, I know.

$26 million down the drain if he goes into a full on Diaz meltdown mode isn't much. Avoid arbitration and if he plays close to what he did last year, he's locked in until age 31. Get another year of control of his prime years. I like these cheap bets.

If Mikolas and Dejong both fail, its still a lot less money than we got just this year from MLB selling some tech developed on mlb.com. Baseball is awash in money.

The bullpen blew 40 leads last year BRC. FORTY!!

[Marcellus]

The bullpen blew 40 leads last year BRC. FORTY!!

Yea it was epic bad. Seemed every other game we had a lead going into the 6th inning and boom.

[BigRedChief]

The bullpen blew 40 leads last year BRC. FORTY!!l agree on the big time suckage of the bullpen. but we have help on the way. Hicks is going to be our closer, maybe by the end of this year. We have other options a year or two away too.

Offense? Maybe O’Neill and some more OF’s. But there isn’t a #3 hitter among them.

[BigRedChief]

It's not financially crippling, but that's just dumb as fuck.$26 million over 6 years ain’t shit in baseball money. Who cares if they hedge their bets on future production? They have already proven with Diaz they will just cut a player, eat the dead money and move on if production drops.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

$26 million over 6 years ain’t shit in baseball money. Who cares if they hedge their bets on future production? They have already proven with Diaz they will just cut a player, eat the dead money and move on if production drops.

Every four million you spend on Paul DeJong is four million you don't spend on Manny Machado, or Max Scherzer, et. al.

There is nothing about DeJong's skillset that suggests his production last year was sustainable, and now, you've taken someone that can provide significant surplus value if he is even a 1.5 win player, and gutted a good portion of that, just to potentially save yourself money in his arb years, which won't happen for another 3 seasons. If he was Carlos Correa and had torn up the minors all the way through, then yeah, you make this move. But when he K's five times as often as he walks and needs a ridiculous BABIP to remain a useful offensive player in a time where HR are cheaper than ever, it's just bad business.

[BigRedChief]

Every four million you spend on Paul DeJong is four million you don't spend on Manny Machado, or Max Scherzer, et. al. if they try to sell that BS, no one is going to buy that crap. Oh we had to pay our 3B $4 million, 1% of revenue, so we can’t pay Manny $30 million a year? ROFL

The last “official” revenue year documentation we have is 2016. The Cardinals took in $310 million. They now have at least an additional $100 million from the cable contract. Not to mention increases in national TV contracts and mlb.com revenue. It’s a good assumption that in 2018 the Cards are going to have revenue in the $430-$450 million neighborhood.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

if they try to sell that BS, no one is going to buy that crap. Oh we had to pay our 3B $4 million so we can’t pay Manny $30 million a year? ROFL

The last “official” revenue year documentation we have is 2016. The Cardinals took in $310 million. They now have at least an additional $100 million from the cable contract. Not to mention increases in national TV contracts and mlb.com revenue. It’s a good assumption they are going to have revenue in the $430-$450 million neighborhood.

Whether you piss away $50 at a three-card-Monte game in one sitting, or $5 ten times playing the Lotto, you're still wasting money, and it all adds up.

[raybec 4]

if they try to sell that BS, no one is going to buy that crap. Oh we had to pay our 3B $4 million so we can’t pay Manny $30 million a year? ROFL

The last “official” revenue year documentation we have is 2016. The Cardinals took in $310 million. They now have at least an additional $100 million from the cable contract. Not to mention increases in national TV contracts and mlb.com revenue. It’s a good assumption they are going to have revenue in the $430-$450 million neighborhood.

Revenue does not equate to profit obviously. The fact that they have more money than previous years doesn't mean they should be throwing more at middling players who had one good year. They should be looking to get the highest value from every dollar spent. DeJong isn't it.

[BigRedChief]

Whether you piss away $50 at a three-card-Monte game in one sitting, or $5 ten times playing the Lotto, you're still wasting money, and it all adds up.l also think it’s sending a message to other prospects. You happily do what we tell you to do with training, play at this level etc. you don’t have to wait for 6 years in MLB to put millions in the bank. Take care of mom and dad.

[raybec 4]

l also think it’s sending a message to other prospects. You happily do what we tell you to do with training, play at this level etc. you don’t have to wait for 6 years in MLB to put millions in the bank. Take care of mom and dad.

You're mighty free and easy with the Red Birds money BRC

[BigRedChief]

You're mighty free and easy with the Red Birds money BRCthey have the money. They have went cheap the last few years. It’s time to spend it, and not on a Dejong.

l want them to go hard after Manny. Whatever you think the top of the market could possibly be, pay top $, go first, get him in the #3 hole and we will be legitimate contenders again.

[bdj23]

So Lynn signed a 1/12 with the Twins. Rejected the 17.5 million qualifying offer from us.

Weird.

We couldn't have brought him back for that?

[Miles]

Appears the team has no interest in trying to bargain hunt with any of these vets that didn’t get big contracts.

[bdj23]

Appears the team has no interest in trying to bargain hunt with any of these vets that didn’t get big contracts.

But we'll sing Mikolas off the scrap heap.

[Miles]

But we'll sing Mikolas off the scrap heap.

Or give $11m to a reliever coming off a bad year.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Well that fucking sucks. The pick attached to Lynn now comes after the second round, not the first, b/c he gets less than $50 million guaranteed.

So, they sign Mikolas for $2/15.5 and get a pick between the second and third round while Lynn goes for 1/12, and the average value of the pick that replaces him is 1.5 WAR, total.

Mozeliak fucked that deal up royally.

[bdj23]

Well that ****ing sucks. The pick attached to Lynn now comes after the second round, not the first, b/c he gets less than $50 million guaranteed.

So, they sign Mikolas for $2/15.5 and get a pick between the second and third round while Lynn goes for 1/12, and the average value of the pick that replaces him is 1.5 WAR, total.

Mozeliak ****ed that deal up royally.

Did they even talk to Lynn?