Ball Joints and Upper Control Arm 2004 Ford F150

[BigRichard]

I had my truck in the shop a few weeks ago for some unrelated stuff and they told me the lower ball joints were bad on my truck. I suspected something to that effect as I was getting the jumping around in the wheel and driving when I hit a pot hole or bump.

They didn't mention the upper ball joint on the control arm but since I have the entire thing tore apart anyway would you just go ahead and replace it? I have to replace the entire control arm if I do. It doesn't look horrible that I can tell but I ain't the best at diagnosing shit. If I watch some videos though I am great at tearing shit apart and putting back together. I just don't want to have to do this again anytime soon.

What say you?

[kccrow]

Control arms are kind of pricey and there's less stress on the upper joint than the lower. I, personally, wouldn't change the upper/control arm unless there is actually wear. They dont' tend to wear anywhere near as fast as the lowers. I'd have them check the control arm bushings as well though just to be sure. If all looks good, do just the lowers and maybe outer tie rod ends.

[SAUTO]

Control arms are kind of pricey and there's less stress on the upper joint than the lower. I, personally, wouldn't change the upper/control arm unless there is actually wear. They dont' tend to wear anywhere near as fast as the lowers. I'd have them check the control arm bushings as well though just to be sure. If all looks good, do just the lowers and maybe outer tie rod ends.

This post really makes no sense

[kccrow]

This post really makes no sense

Feel free to correct it where I'm wrong, I have no quarrels with that. I'm not an expert, I just know in my experience it's extremely rare for uppers to wear anywhere near as fast as lowers. Of course, this is a POS Ford and I don't drive POS Fords. :P

[SAUTO]

I read my wife your post and her response was the exact same as mine ROFL

I'm on the road right now but will explain when I get home.

[SAUTO]

04 could have a couple different suspensions. Does yours have struts?

[Naptown Chief]

Does the truck squeak when going over a bump or particularly rough patch of road? That'd indicate, more often than not, bad bushings. I had a slammed 88 s10 when I was younger and I currently have a lowered STI swapped 04 Forester. I'm pretty harsh on my suspensions. Each component gives you a unique feel and sometimes sound as they go..

[Bugeater]

My Grand Cherokee has been doing that twitchy thing as well when I hit a bump or dip in the road, been wondering what the hell is causing that. Sucks if it is the ball joints/control arms because that's not a repair I'm going to take on myself.

[SAUTO]

Does the truck squeak when going over a bump or particularly rough patch of road? That'd indicate, more often than not, bad bushings. I had a slammed 88 s10 when I was younger and I currently have a lowered STI swapped 04 Forester. I'm pretty harsh on my suspensions. Each component gives you a unique feel and sometimes sound as they go..

Jesus...

[Naptown Chief]

Jesus...

Dave.

[SAUTO]

My Grand Cherokee has been doing that twitchy thing as well when I hit a bump or dip in the road, been wondering what the hell is causing that. Sucks if it is the ball joints/control arms because that's not a repair I'm going to take on myself.

Isn't that thing a solid front axle?

[SAUTO]

Dave.

Your post was totally off.

Ball joints will squeal very often. Much more likely than bushings

[SAUTO]

Feel free to correct it where I'm wrong, I have no quarrels with that. I'm not an expert, I just know in my experience it's extremely rare for uppers to wear anywhere near as fast as lowers. Of course, this is a POS Ford and I don't drive POS Fords. :P

Well I see just as many uppers fail as lowers.

You recommended not changing the uppers because they weren't bad but then recommended replacement of the outer tie rod ends just out of the blue. That really mate no sense to me.

[SAUTO]

And any one with a 5.4 3 valve hit me up when it goes. I install tons of them.

[Naptown Chief]

Squeal or squeak? There's a distinct difference. I've destroyed enough bushings to know the difference. The bushings will constantly squeak as if you're bouncing on an old metal framed bed.

[SAUTO]

Squeal or squeak? There's a distinct difference. I've destroyed enough bushings to know the difference. The bushings will constantly squeak as if you're bouncing on an old metal framed bed.

So will ball joints on any Ford product. Any movement of them will sound exactly like you are describing.

[Naptown Chief]

So will ball joints on any Ford product. Any movement of them will sound exactly like you are describing.

I never had to do ball joints on either of my fox bodies so I can't speak from experience there. I've never owned a Ford truck, just my little s10 lowrider. I was actually looking for a Ranger, but I digress.

I've had 4 Subarus and the rear suspension is comprised of 2 lateral links and a trailing arm per side. Each side has 6 bushings from the factory (not including the subframe/differential bushings which is another story for another day). Once you go aftermarket, you're looking at 12 per side. There is absolutely a difference between the sound of those bushings and ball joints, at least on my car, as I just did my ball joints the other day.

[Bugeater]

Isn't that thing a solid front axle?
:shrug:

[SAUTO]

:shrug:

Check the track bar bushings first

[Flying High D]

^ Bring it in for a look.

[cooper barrett]

At 15 years old just replace all the ball joints and install bushing eccentrics so it can be fully aligned afterwards.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nOIleOEJL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[Simply Red]

just spray them down with WD40!!!

[kccrow]

Well I see just as many uppers fail as lowers.

You recommended not changing the uppers because they weren't bad but then recommended replacement of the outer tie rod ends just out of the blue. That really mate no sense to me.

Now that you and your wife have had your chuckle, I'll explain why it makes sense to me. If it still doesn't make sense to you, I'd love to hear the reasoning to put in my knowledge bank.
So here goes... When the ball joints begin to fail, there is much more vibration. That vibration and movement will be most noticeable at the outer tie rod ends, which are already adept at wearing in close proximity to the lower ball joints. The other factor here is that he's going to need an alignment anyhow, so why not replace the other part that will wear about as quickly right now and get one alignment done? If he doesn't, and they wear out in a few months, he's out another $100+ alignment fee. He did mention the symptom being the wheel jumping around, so it's very possible he has some rod damage already. He also mentioned not really wanting to do this again any time soon. It just seems for the extra $100, it'd be a wise time to do it.

Edit: Also, interesting on the uppers. I can't recall ever having an upper fail under 200,000 miles.

[TimeForWasp]

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[SAUTO]

Now that you and your wife have had your chuckle, I'll explain why it makes sense to me. If it still doesn't make sense to you, I'd love to hear the reasoning to put in my knowledge bank.
So here goes... When the ball joints begin to fail, there is much more vibration. That vibration and movement will be most noticeable at the outer tie rod ends, which are already adept at wearing in close proximity to the lower ball joints. The other factor here is that he's going to need an alignment anyhow, so why not replace the other part that will wear about as quickly right now and get one alignment done? If he doesn't, and they wear out in a few months, he's out another $100+ alignment fee. He did mention the symptom being the wheel jumping around, so it's very possible he has some rod damage already. He also mentioned not really wanting to do this again any time soon. It just seems for the extra $100, it'd be a wise time to do it.

Edit: Also, interesting on the uppers. I can't recall ever having an upper fail under 200,000 miles.
I would think the vibration and movement would be felt worse by the upper ball joint that's right in line with the lower... and why wouldn't you replace the inner tire rods then? They would be getting the same treatment travelling from the outers.

[SAUTO]

At 15 years old just replace all the ball joints and install bushing eccentrics so it can be fully aligned afterwards.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nOIleOEJL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I'm pretty sure you are talking about a different suspension. Unless it's a heritage.

[cooper barrett]

ROFLROFLROFLNow that you and your wife have had your chuckle, I'll explain why it makes sense to me. If it still doesn't make sense to you, I'd love to hear the reasoning to put in my knowledge bank.
So here goes... When the ball joints begin to fail, there is much more vibration. That vibration and movement will be most noticeable at the outer tie rod ends, which are already adept at wearing in close proximity to the lower ball joints. The other factor here is that he's going to need an alignment anyhow, so why not replace the other part that will wear about as quickly right now and get one alignment done? If he doesn't, and they wear out in a few months, he's out another $100+ alignment fee. He did mention the symptom being the wheel jumping around, so it's very possible he has some rod damage already. He also mentioned not really wanting to do this again any time soon. It just seems for the extra $100, it'd be a wise time to do it.

Edit: Also, interesting on the uppers. I can't recall ever having an upper fail under 200,000 miles.

This made even my dog laugh.

[cooper barrett]

I would think the vibration and movement would be felt worse by the upper ball joint that's right in line with the lower... and why wouldn't you replace the inner tire rods then? They would be getting the same treatment travelling from the outers.

He must have had a Goodyear alignment on a GM truck back in the day..upper lower, inner outer and idler arm and shocks.:D:D:D

[SAUTO]

You forgot the pitman arm that's always bad on those gm products

[lewdog]

I giggled when he said ball joints.

[SAUTO]

I giggled when he said ball joints.

You know you wanna smoke them...

[cooper barrett]

I'm pretty sure you are talking about a different suspension. Unless it's a heritage.

I think that they fit all 2004 - 2007 and are the fill blown kit for the upper arms with greaseable bolts.

What's a 2004 Ford heritage other than a trim package?

[cooper barrett]

You forgot the pitman arm that's always bad on those gm products

If your replacing all that and the sway bar link pins and bushings why not toss in a Pittman arm!!!! What's that about $100 more and an hour labor?

Might need a new steering shaft joint too......

[SAUTO]

I think that they fit all 2004 - 2007 and are the fill blown kit for the upper arms with greaseable bolts.

What's a 2004 Ford heritage other than a trim package?

On a truck with struts all the adjustment is at the lower control arms and there aren't eccentrics for them... those you posted are for the old style

The heritage is a totally different truck. Body style, engines, suspension, etc...

[SAUTO]

If your replacing all that and the sway bar link pins and bushings why not toss in a Pittman arm!!!! What's that about $100 more and an hour labor?

Might need a new steering shaft joint too......

The pitman atm actually is the most common on those. 1.9 I think and mostly you had to remove the gearbox... usually a dirty job.

Like the one I'm doing as we speak.

Oil pan and rear main on an 07 Denali. Greasy mess.. 46 minutes to have it all apart. Waiting on the parts store to open now..

[PunkinDrublic]

WTF! Three pages in and no Fletch reference. Gentlemen it’s all ball bearings!

[cooper barrett]

On a truck with struts all the adjustment is at the lower control arms and there aren't eccentrics for them... those you posted are for the old style

The heritage is a totally different truck. Body style, engines, suspension, etc...

I did mean lower arms(my bad) and different eccentric sets look different depending on the amount of correctional application. I just grabbed a pic that showed what a set looked like as an example.

Isn't a Heritage really just a 2003 with a 2004 title? It still had the old school linkage vs a rack like in 2005.

I have not personally worked on a 2007 up GM trucks steering, that I want to remember, as I was referring to pre 2000 trucks (w/ drag links) that had movement in the ball joints when new.

[C3HIEF3S]

Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?

[SAUTO]

I did mean lower arms(my bad) and different eccentric sets look different depending on the amount of correctional application. I just grabbed a pic that showed what a set looked like as an example.

Isn't a Heritage really just a 2003 with a 2004 title? It still had the old school linkage vs a rack like in 2005.

I have not personally worked on a 2007 up GM trucks steering, that I want to remember, as I was referring to pre 2000 trucks (w/ drag links) that had movement in the ball joints when new.
I have no idea if they are a 03 titled ad 04... 04 has a heritage that's like the older trucks. The eccentric package you posted goes on those style trucks on the upper arms

[Mr. Wizard]

I had my truck in the shop a few weeks ago for some unrelated stuff and they told me the lower ball joints were bad on my truck. I suspected something to that effect as I was getting the jumping around in the wheel and driving when I hit a pot hole or bump.

They didn't mention the upper ball joint on the control arm but since I have the entire thing tore apart anyway would you just go ahead and replace it? I have to replace the entire control arm if I do. It doesn't look horrible that I can tell but I ain't the best at diagnosing shit. If I watch some videos though I am great at tearing shit apart and putting back together. I just don't want to have to do this again anytime soon.

What say you?

1- avoid potholes
2- upper ball joints are above the lower ones
3- I would only replace it if it needs replaced it costs more to replace for some reason than if you don't replace it
4- rotate the air in all four tires, that front air has been tuned to hitting pot holes, now that your not going to hit them any more it just will not drive right.
5- Blinker fluid is optional as are muffler bearings.

See, now you don't have to watch a video !

[penguinz]

Isn't that thing a solid front axle?Last Grand Cherokee with solid front axle was 2004.

[Flying High D]

Who knew balls had joints.

[Bugeater]

Last Grand Cherokee with solid front axle was 2004.
Mine is a 2002. The only other 4WD vehicle I've ever had is my current truck so I don't know a lot about them.

[BigRichard]

Sorry I didn't respond to the questions... I was in the middle of the work and when I didn't get a response for a couple of hours I just went ahead and left it in. But to answer SAUTO's question, yes it has struts. This is not the Heritage, it is the 5.4L V8. I don't think it was bad so just left it. If I end up tearing it apart later so be it. The other side went way quicker than the first side since I knew what I was doing. First side probably took me 5 hours while the second side took me about half that. I did also have to change the 4wd actuator on the first side though. Although it was only 3 bolts to take it off since it was all tore apart anyways. The actuator had actually split around the ring from corrosion. The center part of the ring was basically dust.

Is there some trick to getting the anti lock brake sensor off? I ended up breaking part of the first one off after I took the screw out and tried prying it off. I just left it after that as I didn't want to really damage it. I just left it connected and got a bucket for the hub piece to sit on so it wasn't putting 25 pounds of weight on the cable.

[SAUTO]

Sorry I didn't respond to the questions... I was in the middle of the work and when I didn't get a response for a couple of hours I just went ahead and left it in. But to answer SAUTO's question, yes it has struts. This is not the Heritage, it is the 5.4L V8. I don't think it was bad so just left it. If I end up tearing it apart later so be it. The other side went way quicker than the first side since I knew what I was doing. First side probably took me 5 hours while the second side took me about half that. I did also have to change the 4wd actuator on the first side though. Although it was only 3 bolts to take it off since it was all tore apart anyways. The actuator had actually split around the ring from corrosion. The center part of the ring was basically dust.

Is there some trick to getting the anti lock brake sensor off? I ended up breaking part of the first one off after I took the screw out and tried prying it off. I just left it after that as I didn't want to really damage it. I just left it connected and got a bucket for the hub piece to sit on so it wasn't putting 25 pounds of weight on the cable.
the struts have to be removed to pull the upper control arm bolts.

you just unplug the other end of the sensor from inside the fender well and leave the sensor itself in the hub bearing...

i put an actuator on one of those last thursday in less than 15 minutes:D

[Flying High D]

Your talking Newtonian Physics now.

[BigRichard]

the struts have to be removed to pull the upper control arm bolts.

you just unplug the other end of the sensor from inside the fender well and leave the sensor itself in the hub bearing...

i put an actuator on one of those last thursday in less than 15 minutes:D

Yeah, I knew I would have to do that but with everything else tore apart that would have been fairly easy to do.

[SAUTO]

Yeah, I knew I would have to do that but with everything else tore apart that would have been fairly easy to do.

as long as the lower bolts arent frozen up:D

[raybec 4]

You might want to replace the Fetzer valve while you're at it.

[BigRichard]

as long as the lower bolts arent frozen up:D

I had them off before when I replaced all that and put a leveling kit on it. But that was about 3 years and 30,000 miles ago.

[kccrow]

I would think the vibration and movement would be felt worse by the upper ball joint that's right in line with the lower... and why wouldn't you replace the inner tire rods then? They would be getting the same treatment travelling from the outers.

I was thinking more along the lines of stress relative to the joint. More stress at the lower ball joint and outer tie rod end than at the upper ball joint and inner tie rod end, in addition to the vibration (more pressure + equivalent vibration = more wear?). Maybe this isn't true, but it would seem that way based on location and supports. From a physics point of view, I'm making sense in my own head. That, and there's probably ample reason engineers tend to favor upper ball joints integrated into the control arms rather than making them replaceable like the lowers. Same said about the inner tie rods being a major bitch to change compared to the outers. Either way, you see it daily and I don't (thankfully, backbreaking work you do) and I respect and appreciate your opinion on it.

[cooper barrett]

I was thinking more along the lines of stress relative to the joint. More stress at the lower ball joint and outer tie rod end than at the upper ball joint and inner tie rod end, in addition to the vibration (more pressure + equivalent vibration = more wear?). Maybe this isn't true, but it would seem that way based on location and supports. From a physics point of view, I'm making sense in my own head. That, and there's probably ample reason engineers tend to favor upper ball joints integrated into the control arms rather than making them replaceable like the lowers. Same said about the inner tie rods being a major bitch to change compared to the outers. Either way, you see it daily and I don't (thankfully, backbreaking work you do) and I respect and appreciate your opinion on it.

You have been identified and even though I may be banned, I am posting your picture.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/03/38/a5/0338a572fad2935be5b5dcf3b08d27a0--the-andy-griffith-show-actors.jpg

[kccrow]

You have been identified and even though I may be banned, I am posting your picture.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/03/38/a5/0338a572fad2935be5b5dcf3b08d27a0--the-andy-griffith-show-actors.jpg

Says one of the dumbest motherfuckers on CP.