A CASE FOR THE DEFENSE

[UChieffyBugger]

During this offseason and the preseason games, folks have been going mad about the defense and I think it's time to lay the facts on the table and have a serious discussion about it.

Last season our defense consisted of.

Revis
Peters
Gaines
Mitchell
Revis
Nelson
Acker


Sorensen
Parker
Murray
Berry (for one game)

Ford (for a few games)
Houston
Zombo
Kpass
Hali

Ragland
Johnson
KPL
Wilson
Smith

Jones
Bailey
Logan
Jenkins
RNR

And these were the points we conceded

Pats= 27

Philly= 20

Chargers= 10

Skins= 20

Texans= 34

Pitt= 19

Raiders= 31

Denver= 19

Cowboys= 28

Giants= 12

Bills= 16

Jets= 38

Raiders= 15

Chargers= 13

Miami= 13

Denver= 24

Titans= 22

So let's do the maths. Out of seventeen games, we only allowed more than 25 points five times. We also kept teams under twenty points eight times, which is nearly half the total amount of games we played. There were some horror shows, no doubt, but I think when you look at that roster and see how many guys were either not good enough (Gaines, Sorensen, Mitchell, RNR, Acker etc), or simply too old and fading (Johnson, Revis, Zombo, Hali and so forth), then I think the defense probably done themselves justice in the end.

And let's be honest guys, would anyone swap our current list of players for the ones we had last year? I certainly wouldn't. It's not perfect by any means, but it's younger, fresher, faster and I have a great belief that fans will be pleasantly surprised by what they produce this season.

[Best22]

All bad NFL defenses allow 40ppg. If we don't score 41 points every game, we'll go 0-16!

In reality, only the very worst and least talented allow 30ppg (2008 Lions, 2001 Colts, etc).

A defense with Berry, Houston, Fuller, Jones, and Hitchens won't be that bad.

But how bad (or good, or average, or below average) will they be? How many points per game will we allow?

Can't wait to find out

[OKchiefs]

My biggest issue is that so many of our projected starters have a history of not staying healthy and because of that are paid way too much for their production (or lack thereof).

[Skyy God]

My biggest issue is that so many of our projected starters have a history of not staying healthy and because of that are paid way too much for their production (or lack thereof).

Ssssssshhhh.

Don’t wake the Berry slurpera.

[staylor26]

Here’s my case:

We’ve been missing almost half the starters.

[FlaChief58]

I'M MAKING MY CASE!

[Hoover]

My fear is that we were able to keep teams off the scoreboard because we took the ball away. Which is why trading Peters away scares me.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

This is a 20 PPG defense, but of course Chiefs Planet is bat Shit crazy and claims teams will score 30 and throw for 500 a game with ease...dumbasses

[Best22]

My fear is that we were able to keep teams off the scoreboard because we took the ball away. Which is why trading Peters away scares me.

Lost Peters, added Berry

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Rivers will throw for 500 is the new "RMEHGAWD RYAN MATHEWS TEH RUN FOR 200"

[Best22]

Rivers will throw for 500 is the new "RMEHGAWD RYAN MATHEWS TEH RUN FOR 200"

When my kids don't go to bed, I always tell them that the Chargers will come and get them if they don't go to sleep

[New World Order]

We should have everything in the middle of the field.

It's outside the hashes I'm worried about.

[TLO]

ARE YOU GAY?

[Red Dawg]

This is a 20 PPG defense, but of course Chiefs Planet is bat Shit crazy and claims teams will score 30 and throw for 500 a game with ease...dumbasses

Brother, I like the way you think. I simply can't agree but I hope like a mad man you're right. To me the biggest jump we need is the pass rush to come back. We don't have the back end for it not to and win any longer. Plant the the QB on his ass and the back end will look better.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

When my kids don't go to bed, I always tell them that the Chargers will come and get them if they don't go to sleep

ROFL we have " grown men" posters that piss themselves at the thought of facing them

[TEX]

Lost Peters, added Berry

Berry has not played yet and we dont know how well he can when he does play.

[O.city]

If Andy was ok trading Peters (and he obviously was or they wouldn’t have) it had to have been pretty toxic. It is what it is

[TEX]

Here’s my case:

We’ve been missing almost half the starters.

I hear ya, but that is a concern b/c they are not healthy and many have a history of that. So the case can be made that we have a bunch of injury prone players who cant be counted on. We also have plenty of JAGS. Not a good combo for success.

[Best22]

Berry has not played yet and we dont know how well he can when he does play.

When it comes down to it, turnovers are important, but not as much as stops

The 2003 Chiefs intercepted more passes than any of Reid's KC teams.

You have to force punts. Turnovers are secondary

[UChieffyBugger]

ARE YOU GAY?

ARE YOU A DUMBSEXUAL?

[cwhocares]

If Andy was ok trading Peters (and he obviously was or they wouldn’t have) it had to have been pretty toxic. It is what it is
I'm pretty sure Reid was told to trade Peters. (We'll never know) With a talent like that, you put up with a lot of crap from them and try to make it work. Short of Berry, we don't have anyone in Peters skill range.

[UChieffyBugger]

When it comes down to it, turnovers are important, but not as much as stops

The 2003 Chiefs intercepted more passes than any of Reid's KC teams.

You have to force punts. Turnovers are secondary

As far as turnovers are concerned I actually think Fuller and Watts have the potential to do exactly what Marcus did for us. Watts was a turner machine in college and Fuller had four turnovers last season.

[TrebMaxx]

I will wait until all of the pieces are in place. We haven't seen yet what will be out on the field on opening day.

[MahiMike]

I saw some guys really hustling out there. Too much sometimes...48 especially. Dude kept flying past the runner. Also, not very disciplined. On the one TD, they were running toward the ball except staying in their positions.

[mlyonsd]

To date our pass rush sucks. If that happens an average or sub-par secondary is exposed pretty easily. It's only pre-season but sutton's history of really sucking at his job worries me.

[NJChiefsFan]

Case dismissed.

[NJChiefsFan]

Joking aside though the talent is better overall. Just not sure it's enough. Wouldn't be shocked if we got to mid pack but that's with a ton of players reaching their potential.

[UChieffyBugger]

Joking aside though the talent is better overall. Just not sure it's enough. Wouldn't be shocked if we got to mid pack but that's with a ton of players reaching their potential.

Wouldn't mid-pack and a good offense bode well for the season? I think it would :D .

[JoeyChuckles]

We will be a bottom 5 defense by the time this season is over.

It's all on Sutton for me. But our Superbowl window doesn't open for 1-2 more years, so whatever it takes to get Sutton out of here.

[T-post Tom]

...It's only pre-season but sutton's history of really sucking at his job worries me.

Can't post this enough as it exemplifies the shortcomings of Sutton's defensive play calling:

Houston rushed the quarterback on 77 percent of his pass plays last season, when he had 9.5 sacks. His career percentage is 72 percent. As comparisons, Denver's Von Miller rushed the passer 93.3 percent of the time last season and 82.5 percent in his career. Oakland's Khalil Mack went after the QB 95.1 percent of the snaps last season and 89.3 percent of the time in his career.


http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277932/chiefs-plan-for-justin-houston-to-rekindle-his-22-sack-season

[NJChiefsFan]

Wouldn't mid-pack and a good offense bode well for the season? I think it would :D .

It certainly would. I just don't see it as likely.

[htismaqe]

Can't post this enough as it exemplifies the shortcomings of Sutton's defensive play calling:

Houston rushed the quarterback on 77 percent of his pass plays last season, when he had 9.5 sacks. His career percentage is 72 percent. As comparisons, Denver's Von Miller rushed the passer 93.3 percent of the time last season and 82.5 percent in his career. Oakland's Khalil Mack went after the QB 95.1 percent of the snaps last season and 89.3 percent of the time in his career.


http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277932/chiefs-plan-for-justin-houston-to-rekindle-his-22-sack-season

Way to completely omit the context in order to satisfy a false narrative. Justin Houston was in coverage out of necessity and the defense was actually better as a result.

But what’s interesting is that while their pass rush is better when Houston rushes the quarterback, their pass defense isn’t as good overall. That suggests that perhaps defensive coordinator Bob Sutton is doing the right things with Houston on the whole. Houston leads the Chiefs in sacks with 5.5, but he’s good in coverage as well.

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/79904/by-some-important-measures-chiefs-are-better-with-justin-houston-in-pass-coverage

[UChieffyBugger]

It certainly would. I just don't see it as likely.

Why? Last season our points allowed totals was about 15th right? And imo we have better talent In the defense than last season so why not? I think Fuller is a stud tbh and will fill Peters role well. Berry coming back should also be a godsend. Whilst Ragland and Hitchens should certainly shore up the middle of the D. Our defense doesn't have to be like the Jaggs for us to have a successful season.

[JimNasium]

This was always a two year rebuild. If this defense can over achieve and be middle of the pack, then it’s a victory.

[ChiefGator]

Way to completely omit the context in order to satisfy a false narrative. Justin Houston was in coverage out of necessity and the defense was actually better as a result.



http://www.espn.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/79904/by-some-important-measures-chiefs-are-better-with-justin-houston-in-pass-coverage

This.

Those numbers are actually a case for Sutton analyzing how good the defense is in different situations and going with a bit of an unorthodox defense, since that was statistically the best defense we put on the field.

As long as Berry, Ragland, and Hitchens can all play, we will be a much better defense.

[Danguardace]

The Pre-season brings about false hope and false hate.

I'll reserve my judgement for week 1 and beyond.

I expect the defense to be better, which isn't hard.

[Buckweath]

The defense will be at worst average. And I would feel very strongly about this if not for the fact that Amerson has looked underwhelming.

[TEX]

The defense will be at worst average. And I would feel very strongly about this if not for the fact that Amerson has looked underwhelming.

I'll bet you anything its bottom 10 overall. In fact IMO, that's its ceiling. This _efense is going to be terrible. No pass rush, bad Secondary and cant stop the run. What mskes it worse is they're counting on improvement coming from several key players who have a history of injuries. They need everything to go right for them just to be average. Way too many issues for all that to happen IMO.

[chiefzilla1501]

Can't post this enough as it exemplifies the shortcomings of Sutton's defensive play calling:

Houston rushed the quarterback on 77 percent of his pass plays last season, when he had 9.5 sacks. His career percentage is 72 percent. As comparisons, Denver's Von Miller rushed the passer 93.3 percent of the time last season and 82.5 percent in his career. Oakland's Khalil Mack went after the QB 95.1 percent of the snaps last season and 89.3 percent of the time in his career.


http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277932/chiefs-plan-for-justin-houston-to-rekindle-his-22-sack-season

I still think this is overblown. Houston goes into coverage a lot because he's damn good at it. Especially with lousy ilbs. Hopefully Hitchens helps. Not rushing Houston wasnt the biggest problem. The problem is that Sutton hasn't shown yet that he can adapt beyond his nickel scheme. Andy insisted the defense will be more aggressive and they obviously prioritized the interior of this defense. In Suttons defense, he was pretty aggressive his first 1 or 2 seasons with the chiefs. We'll see if that works.

[Priest31kc]

The Pre-season brings about false hope and false hate.

I'll reserve my judgement for week 1 and beyond.

I expect the defense to be better, which isn't hard.

This.

Not judging the D until the regular season. We haven't had Hitchens, Ragland or Berry. Houston's played like 2 series. Bailey's barely played. We're trying out everyone at the other S spot with Sorenson down. We got a shit ton of rookies and new parts too.

And like the offense, were not game planning or scheming for shit yet.

I hate preseason

[Eleazar]

Whether people want to admit it or not, the team is rebuilding. The defense has been bad for a number of years and there is no reason to believe that will change this year. The offense has some key pieces but the line is not good and is going to limit what they can do. It's going to take another offseason of making solid moves to see the team turn the corner. They'll probably take a step back this year which is fine.

[Chiefnj2]

I somewhat like the fact that the backups have been playing at ILB and S so far during the past two games. There is probably a good chance they have to take the field during the season, so you might as well get them some playing time in a basic defense to see what they can do. Way too early to panic.

[NJChiefsFan]

Why? Last season our points allowed totals was about 15th right? And imo we have better talent In the defense than last season so why not? I think Fuller is a stud tbh and will fill Peters role well. Berry coming back should also be a godsend. Whilst Ragland and Hitchens should certainly shore up the middle of the D. Our defense doesn't have to be like the Jaggs for us to have a successful season.

Hopefully you are right.

[TEX]

Whether people want to admit it or not, the team is rebuilding. The defense has been bad for a number of years and there is no reason to believe that will change this year. The offense has some key pieces but the line is not good and is going to limit what they can do. It's going to take another offseason of making solid moves to see the team turn the corner. They'll probably take a step back this year which is fine.

I agree. The Offense is not going to be good enough to overcome the _efense. But we finally have a Franchise QB, so we need to give him the time he needs to develop and the Chiefs time to build a solid team around him.

[JimNasium]

Whether people want to admit it or not, the team is rebuilding. The defense has been bad for a number of years and there is no reason to believe that will change this year. The offense has some key pieces but the line is not good and is going to limit what they can do. It's going to take another offseason of making solid moves to see the team turn the corner. They'll probably take a step back this year which is fine.

This. Another off-season and a solid draft and we are in business. If we get to and make some noise in the playoffs this year it will be gravy.

[TEX]

Why? Last season our points allowed totals was about 15th right? And imo we have better talent In the defense than last season so why not? I think Fuller is a stud tbh and will fill Peters role well. Berry coming back should also be a godsend. Whilst Ragland and Hitchens should certainly shore up the middle of the D. Our defense doesn't have to be like the Jaggs for us to have a successful season.



Because they're counting on improvement coming from several key players who have a history of injuries. They need everything to go right for them just to be average. Way too many issues for all that to happen IMO.
__________________

[Rausch]

I think the run D and pass rush will be better than last year.

I think turnovers, pass coverage, and pts allowed will be worse than last year...

[Rasputin]

We'll be fine/Simply Red





He's right you know/Morgan Freeman

[WhiteWhale]

As far as turnovers are concerned I actually think Fuller and Watts have the potential to do exactly what Marcus did for us. Watts was a turner machine in college and Fuller had four turnovers last season.

I think KC can survive without Peters, but c'mon.

Nobody in the NFL did what Peters did. 19 picks in 3 years, and 21 if you count playoffs. 480 interception returns yards. 5 FF and 5 recoveries. Two defensive TD's.

Peters could be a liability at other times. The best we can hope for is more consistency, but it's a tall order to expect anyone to bring what Peters did in regards to turnovers and defensive playmaking.

I mean you talk about fuller's 4 turnovers. Peters is responsible for for 24 in 3 years (not counting playoffs). That's 8 per season. On average.

[jspchief]

Sutton has yet to field a D that's tough against both the run and pass. They can only ever stop one part of an offense. We've been making excuses for his shortcomings for 4 years and the overall talent on the current probably doesn't measure up to his most talented teams.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[ct]

During this offseason and the preseason games, folks have been going mad about the defense and I think it's time to lay the facts on the table and have a serious discussion about it.

Last season our defense consisted of.

Revis
Peters
Gaines
Mitchell
Revis
Nelson
Acker


Sorensen
Parker
Murray
Berry (for one game)

Ford (for a few games)
Houston
Zombo
Kpass
Hali

Ragland
Johnson
KPL
Wilson
Smith

Jones
Bailey
Logan
Jenkins
RNR

And these were the points we conceded

Pats= 27

Philly= 20

Chargers= 10

Skins= 20

Texans= 34

Pitt= 19

Raiders= 31

Denver= 19

Cowboys= 28

Giants= 12

Bills= 16

Jets= 38

Raiders= 15

Chargers= 13

Miami= 13

Denver= 24

Titans= 22

So let's do the maths. Out of seventeen games, we only allowed more than 25 points five times. We also kept teams under twenty points eight times, which is nearly half the total amount of games we played. There were some horror shows, no doubt, but I think when you look at that roster and see how many guys were either not good enough (Gaines, Sorensen, Mitchell, RNR, Acker etc), or simply too old and fading (Johnson, Revis, Zombo, Hali and so forth), then I think the defense probably done themselves justice in the end.

And let's be honest guys, would anyone swap our current list of players for the ones we had last year? I certainly wouldn't. It's not perfect by any means, but it's younger, fresher, faster and I have a great belief that fans will be pleasantly surprised by what they produce this season.

:koolaidman:

cheers!

it may be as up and down as our young qb, but we need to roll with what we got and let these guys grow up to get out next year.

i happen to think mcquay/watts/sterns are a decent group of prospects to roll with at FS, and Berry/Murray are fine at SS. obviously i'm assuming Berry is healthy, cause i do NOT like Murray/joeschmo as SS depth.

i dont like scandrick, but if we keep him as slot cb, keep fuller outside more, and waive the worthless amerson, i'm good with smith, redmond, springs as depth. I'm also assuming nelson is ok to go week1.

Tanoh and Speaks i like, and show trends they will continue to develop and get even better. that pushes ford to perhaps even situational rushbacker only, which is where he belongs in his walk year. (Heres hoping our depth develops so we dont need big name FAs in 2019 and ford nets us a comp pick on his way out the door).

i'm of the opinion Ragland and Hitchens are fine for week1, just no need to risk them in preseason. Depth is not good, however. I like what i see from Neimann, but really, he's super raw and we dont really want to rely on him with many reps on D. smith and eligwe can go away.

I'm kinda psyched about the dline honestly. Jonesy looks great (when he wants to, let's keep him fired up). Nnadi and Xavier will be awesome at nose! Bailey and Jenkins may be fairly meh but should be good enough.

I'm excited to see this group come together, even if it may take half the year to get there. Get ready for a roller coaster season chiefs fans, but it will be worth the growing pains.

[Coochie liquor]

ARE YOU GAY?

Sex with Ryan Reynolds gay, or sex with Andy Dick gay?

[Easy 6]

Berry, Hitchens, Ragland... if we can get those three healthy and up to speed, its gonna make a huge difference

In no way am I ready to throw in the towel on this defense, lets play 3 games... then make our bold proclamations

[UChieffyBugger]

Because they're counting on improvement coming from several key players who have a history of injuries. They need everything to go right for them just to be average. Way too many issues for all that to happen IMO.
__________________

"Several"? Berry and who else? Ragland has had one bad injury, the rest may be banged up, but they aren't missing tons of games.

[notorious]

I’m going to have to drink a case while watching them if they continue to suck.

[TEX]

"Several"? Berry and who else? Ragland has had one bad injury, the rest may be banged up, but they aren't missing tons of games.

Um.....How about the one and only Dee Ford?! I dont blame you for forgetting about him since he hasn't done much of anything...That's 3 right there and all play key positions. All have a history of missing games. So yes, I'd say my use of the word "several" is accurate.

Oh - Did I mention Allen Bailey?
That's more than 1/3 of the defense with ???. And I really didn't go into great detail.

Do you wish to change your opinion now?