Justin Houston’s last year in KC?

[kcbubb]

I’m not an expert on these contracts, but could it be Houston’s last year here? His production has been awful and with two games this year with big leads and lots of down the field pass attempts by opposing QBs, Houston has no sacks. I think he has less sacks in the last 50 or so games than he did in the year before his contract, the big year with 22 sacks. His cap hit will decline dramatically next year. He might be gone. As a general rule, I think the chiefs should limit these large 2nd contracts. The motivation just isn’t there. The raiders were right to trade Khalil Mack. Here’s the info on Houston’s contract. Let’s hope Houston turns it around. We need him for a playoff run but if he doesn’t increase production, I think he’s gone.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/justin-houston-7789/

[TambaBerry]

another stupid opinion on Houston lol

[Fish]

LOL, no.

[TEX]

another stupid opinion on Houston lol

Stupid? He's made some points. Maybe he's still here next year, but its not foolish to be looking down the road sooner rather than later with Houston. The production isnt there to justify the contract. Unless that changes, he's not gonna stick around for its duration... :shrug:

[kcbubb]

http://www.nfl.com/player/justinhouston/2495493/careerstats

2018 0
2017 9.5
2016 4
2015 7.5

I wouldn’t pay $15,000,000 for that kind of production with a $21,000,000 cap hit. And he’s not getting any younger. Father Time is working against him as well. Our defense needs his pass rush desperately. I hope he delivers but he’s sucked thus far this year.

[chiefzilla1501]

They will undoubtedly restructure. This offseason is the perfect time to do it. It's a win for both the Chiefs and Houston. Houston would rather get paid less for a protected contract.

[OKchiefs]

Houston absolutely should be gone unless he agrees to a significant pay cut.

But I also wouldn't avoid these contracts. Mack and Confirm Miller have actually performed well relative to their contracts. We just happen to have two examples of players who signed big contracts and broke down soon after, but it doesn't always happen that way.

[OKchiefs]

They will undoubtedly restructure. This offseason is the perfect time to do it. It's a win for both the Chiefs and Houston. Houston would rather get paid less for a protected contract.

Restructure just means moving around money to future years to save money in the current year. I assume you mean renegotiate a reduced contract?

[kccrow]

There's more to football than sacks and Justin Houston does everything well. Trading him is lunacy.

[DaFace]

Given the state of our pass rushers, you pretty much have to pick your poison between re-signing Dee Ford and paying Justin Houston. We can't let them both go in one year.

[kcbubb]

Houston doesn’t have the same explosiveness. His quickness, strength and power are all dramatically less than he was and he isn’t getting any younger. He’s a very smart player and that helped him. Why continue to invest in a player who’s skills are likely going to continue to decline? He needs to produce this year or take a huge pay cut or be gone.

[kccrow]

Given the state of our pass rushers, you pretty much have to pick your poison between re-signing Dee Ford and paying Justin Houston. We can't let them both go in one year.

And honestly, I'm preparing thy anus for the Chiefs to re-sign Ford at 10-12 per.

[OKchiefs]

There's more to football than sacks and Justin Houston does everything well. Trading him is lunacy.

Sacks is why he gets $20 million a year. Nobody in the NFL gets paid $20 million a year if they're not a pass rusher.

[kccrow]

Houston doesn’t have the same explosiveness. His quickness, strength and power are all dramatically less than he was and he isn’t getting any younger. He’s a very smart player and that helped him. Why continue to invest in a player who’s skills are likely going to continue to decline? He needs to produce this year or take a huge pay cut or be gone.

That's what people said about Terrell Suggs too, but the Ravens re-signed him and he kept getting 10 sacks a year and playing great run defense.

[kcbubb]

There's more to football than sacks and Justin Houston does everything well. Trading him is lunacy.

You don’t pay Houston for doing everything well. You pay elite pass rushers $15m.

[OKchiefs]

Given the state of our pass rushers, you pretty much have to pick your poison between re-signing Dee Ford and paying Justin Houston. We can't let them both go in one year.

I'd be in favor of franchising Ford for a year and making him prove it for one more season before we invest in him long term. I'd also use one of our top 3 picks next year on a pass rusher, and more specifically not a project in the mold of Kpass or Speaks (both of whom I pray are not wasted picks).

[kcbubb]

Suggs has made about $4 m per year for the last 4 years. I’d agree to that for Houston.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/terrell-suggs-1125/

[OKchiefs]

That's what people said about Terrell Suggs too, but the Ravens re-signed him and he kept getting 10 sacks a year and playing great run defense.

Houston hasn't had double digit sacks since 2014, so not a great comparison. His performance is reasonable at roughly half his current salary. It's inexcusable for what he is making. We can't build a team with what we are paying to Houston and Berry considering the complete lack of return we are receiving on the investment.

[ModSocks]

Given the state of our pass rushers, you pretty much have to pick your poison between re-signing Dee Ford and paying Justin Houston. We can't let them both go in one year.

Yup

[mcaj22]

man Chiefs fans love hanging onto to their fan favorites of yesteryear a year or two late.

[Prison Bitch]

The same people who rip Smiff for 5 years are the fist to sniff Houstons jock.


Houston has sucked since his deal. Just admit it. Quit blanking Sutton or his knee or whatever, fact remains: had we known he'd turn into this, no WAY does he get that mega deal

[kccrow]

Sacks is why he gets $20 million a year. Nobody in the NFL gets paid $20 million a year if they're not a pass rusher.

People are idiotic when it comes to sacks though. In his comeback year last year he had 9.5 which still put him in the top 20.

Last year:

Von Miller - 57 tackles 10.0 sacks
Justin Houston - 59 tackles 9.5 sacks

Would you all scream the Broncos should cut Miller and he isn't worth 20 million?

No, no you wouldn't.

It's been 2 games and because he doesn't have a sack everyone is up in arms? Sorry if I'm not worried about the best player on this defense.

[Shaid]

I agree with the op here. He's not the same guy. Yes he is smart and can set the edge well still but he's not elite like he used to be. Pay cut or move on.

[kccrow]

Suggs has made about $4 m per year for the last 4 years. I’d agree to that for Houston.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/terrell-suggs-1125/

I'm not talking about the last 4 years. I'm talking about the contract before that when he came back from injury.

[Sofa King]

He’ll be gone I’m guessing, and we’ll be stuck with Ford

[Mecca]

He would have to take a paycut to stay, and Ford is the complete opposite type of player that Veach has basically said he likes.

[TEX]

They will undoubtedly restructure. This offseason is the perfect time to do it. It's a win for both the Chiefs and Houston. Houston would rather get paid less for a protected contract.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[OKchiefs]

People are idiotic when it comes to sacks though. In his comeback year last year he had 9.5 which still put him in the top 20.

Last year:

Von Miller - 57 tackles 10.0 sacks
Justin Houston - 59 tackles 9.5 sacks

Would you all scream the Broncos should cut Miller and he isn't worth 20 million?

No, no you wouldn't.

It's been 2 games and because he doesn't have a sack everyone is up in arms? Sorry if I'm not worried about the best player on this defense.

Yes it is early and he may turn it around. But so far the best players on defense have been Ford, Jones, and Hitchens. Without looking at their contracts I can say they probably make a similar amount or less combined than what Houston is making.

Houston just doesn't pass the eye test anymore. He gets stood up by average tackles and doesn't make plays. He should be singlehandedly wrecking offenses at his current pay, but he doesn't.

His money needs to be used on keeping Hill, Jones, Fuller, etc. If we're going to take advantage of Mahomes' contract before he breaks the bank we can't afford to be paying so much for such little production.

[ModSocks]

There's still a lot of football left, but Houston needs to show that he can be at least a 10 sack guy. He needs to be a 13-17 sack guy to be worth his contract.

He's still strong at the point of attack.

He still commands double teams at times.

He's still a heady player that's stout in run defense.

But some of that power and explosion is gone, and he was never a speed guy to begin with. That contract he received was for sacking Qb's and affecting outcomes of games, not just being a stout run defender.

So sacking QB's is what he needs to do to be worth that money. So unless something changes soon with his production, the Chiefs will be forced to seriously consider eating some dead money.

They will have to decide whether to let Ford walk and keep paying Houston that big contract, or give Ford a 15M (ish) contract and letting Houston go.

Speaks and Kpass exist on the this roster because it's time for one, or both of those guys to go.

[Shaid]

People are idiotic when it comes to sacks though. In his comeback year last year he had 9.5 which still put him in the top 20.

Last year:

Von Miller - 57 tackles 10.0 sacks
Justin Houston - 59 tackles 9.5 sacks

Would you all scream the Broncos should cut Miller and he isn't worth 20 million?

No, no you wouldn't.

It's been 2 games and because he doesn't have a sack everyone is up in arms? Sorry if I'm not worried about the best player on this defense.

You rush the passer much more effectively when you are playing with a lead. The Chiefs did that a lot more than the Broncos last year. I don't think it's a great comparison just like I didn't think it was a good comparison early on when Von was getting all his opportunities. Truth is, I think Houston used to be better than Von. That is no longer the case and hasn't been for a while. The money is better used elsewhere.

[ModSocks]

People are idiotic when it comes to sacks though. In his comeback year last year he had 9.5 which still put him in the top 20.

Last year:

Von Miller - 57 tackles 10.0 sacks
Justin Houston - 59 tackles 9.5 sacks

Would you all scream the Broncos should cut Miller and he isn't worth 20 million?

No, no you wouldn't.

It's been 2 games and because he doesn't have a sack everyone is up in arms? Sorry if I'm not worried about the best player on this defense.

That was also a down year for Von Miller.

I expect a 10 sack season out of Houston. That's completely reasonable for a starting OLB. Especially one with getting paid that kind of coin.

But a 10 sack season is nothing special. A 15 sack season? Now we're talking.

[kccrow]

Houston hasn't had double digit sacks since 2014, so not a great comparison. His performance is reasonable at roughly half his current salary. It's inexcusable for what he is making. We can't build a team with what we are paying to Houston and Berry considering the complete lack of return we are receiving on the investment.

What's inexcusable is judging Houston for an uncontrollable injury, surgery, and recovery. He was out 1 full year, as should be expected when the surgery got botched.

So, in 2015 (the year Houston was injured) he played 11 games with 7.5 sacks. In 2016 he played 5 games and had 4.0 sacks. Of course he didn't put up "double-digit" sacks because he missed a significant amount of time across 2015-16 because of the injury. You know what he did do? Put up 11.5 sacks in the 16 games he did play.

He had 9.5 last year, which is still really good. Even the best defenders in history didn't put up 10+ every year. Derrick Thomas had less than 10 sacks 4 times in his career. Lawrence Taylor 5 times. Et cetera.

Give the guy this season and let's see what happens. If he doesn't produce sacks again then I'd be willing to have the discussion, but as of right now I'm giving Houston the benefit of the doubt.

[OKchiefs]

What's inexcusable is judging Houston for an uncontrollable injury, surgery, and recovery. He was out 1 full year, as should be expected when the surgery got botched.

So, in 2015 (the year Houston was injured) he played 11 games with 7.5 sacks. In 2016 he played 5 games and had 4.0 sacks. Of course he didn't put up "double-digit" sacks because he missed a significant amount of time across 2015-16 because of the injury. You know what he did do? Put up 11.5 sacks in the 16 games he did play.

He had 9.5 last year, which is still really good. Even the best defenders in history didn't put up 10+ every year. Derrick Thomas had less than 10 sacks 4 times in his career. Lawrence Taylor 5 times. Et cetera.

Give the guy this season and let's see what happens. If he doesn't produce sacks again then I'd be willing to have the discussion, but as of right now I'm giving Houston the benefit of the doubt.
I'm fine with that. I'm also predicting he doesn't get double digit sacks this year. I hope I'm wrong.

[patteeu]

I agree with the op here. He's not the same guy. Yes he is smart and can set the edge well still but he's not elite like he used to be. Pay cut or move on.

Plus 1

[ModSocks]

What's inexcusable is judging Houston for an uncontrollable injury, surgery, and recovery. He was out 1 full year, as should be expected when the surgery got botched.

So, in 2015 (the year Houston was injured) he played 11 games with 7.5 sacks. In 2016 he played 5 games and had 4.0 sacks. Of course he didn't put up "double-digit" sacks because he missed a significant amount of time across 2015-16 because of the injury. You know what he did do? Put up 11.5 sacks in the 16 games he did play.

He had 9.5 last year, which is still really good. Even the best defenders in history didn't put up 10+ every year. Derrick Thomas had less than 10 sacks 4 times in his career. Lawrence Taylor 5 times. Et cetera.

Give the guy this season and let's see what happens. If he doesn't produce sacks again then I'd be willing to have the discussion, but as of right now I'm giving Houston the benefit of the doubt.

9.5 Is what a competent starting OLB should get in a 34.

It would've been good enough for 20th in the league last season. The 30th ranked OLB got 8 sacks. 8-10 is competent. Nothing special at all.

I expect that he'll probably get that this season too. Which is ok. It's not bad. But it sure as fuck isn't $20+Mill good.

[chiefzilla1501]

Restructure just means moving around money to future years to save money in the current year. I assume you mean renegotiate a reduced contract?

To a large extent yes. But I doubt Houston would allow that. You'd have to extend the contract with the current contract in mind. I would guess we'd want to extend the years. Basically take his current contract and convert into bonus. For example... You could basically buy out his current contract for a $30m signing bonus over 5 years then pay significantly less base salary. The goal is to take his current expensive contract and spread it out over a longer time. Win win.

[Mecca]

He's basically the whipping boy for the defense, the talk radio dudes are railing him for basically being a scrub so this will go on and on.

[ModSocks]

I see guys all the time try to compare Houston's season to Von Miller's last season, even though that was a down year for Von.

Pssst.....guess who's on top of the sack leader board in 2018?

I'll give you a hint, he has a REALLY big contract but his name isn't Justin Houston.

[ModSocks]

He's basically the whipping boy for the defense, the talk radio dudes are railing him for basically being a scrub so this will go on and on.

Oh is that what's happening on KC radio these days? I see.

[chiefzilla1501]

Chiefs have a lot of leverage. Houstons hitting the point in the contract where the Chiefs can basically tell Houston to accept the new terms, or be cut. I think Houston wants to stay and he's definitely looking for long term contract security, not making a quick buck.

[kccrow]

I'm fine with that. I'm also predicting he doesn't get double digit sacks this year. I hope I'm wrong.

He may not. I haven't seen the "unleash the hounds" defense that we heard about all offseason. Still a lot of playing it safe type of stuff. Houston was at his best when we had Hali also applying pressure and setting the edge opposite him and a defensive line that didn't get their shit pushed in. Jaye Howard and Dontari Poe were infinitely better than what's been there the past couple seasons.

[MahiMike]

There's no one on this defense that is indispensable. Not one.

[ModSocks]

I think Houston needs to have a 10 sack season to stay on the team and i think that's exactly what he'll have.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

They can’t even begin to consider releasing Houston until Speaks or KPass show that they’re actually good players.

[Mecca]

Oh is that what's happening on KC radio these days? I see.

Yea phrases like

"I take the time to just watch him on plays and he doesn't do anything, he runs into the OT and just stands there, he's a bum"

The narrative that he blows is being pushed really hard. Like yesterday Bob Sutton said he played a fine game and when they went back to the guys the first line was "a lot of disinformation out there at 1 arrowhead drive apparently"

[OKchiefs]

He may not. I haven't seen the "unleash the hounds" defense that we heard about all offseason. Still a lot of playing it safe type of stuff. Houston was at his best when we had Hali also applying pressure and setting the edge opposite him and a defensive line that didn't get their shit pushed in. Jaye Howard and Dontari Poe were infinitely better than what's been there the past couple seasons.

Ford and Jones are actually getting pressure though, so it's not like Houston has been going at it alone.

I honestly hope Houston blows up this weekend for 3 sacks and makes me eat crow.

[WhawhaWhat]

Yea phrases like

"I take the time to just watch him on plays and he doesn't do anything, he runs into the OT and just stands there, he's a bum"

The narrative that he blows is being pushed really hard. Like yesterday Bob Sutton said he played a fine game and when they went back to the guys the first line was "a lot of disinformation out there at 1 arrowhead drive apparently"

Which host is this? Bob Fescoe or KK are my guesses.

[Mecca]

If you do cut Houston and let Ford go, or really just let Ford go this team is probably going to be in the market for a pass rusher who may come on the cheap..

Dante Fowler and Shane Ray are probably going to be options for this team in FA...

[kccrow]

I see guys all the time try to compare Houston's season to Von Miller's last season, even though that was a down year for Von.

Pssst.....guess who's on top of the sack leader board in 2018?

I'll give you a hint, he has a REALLY big contract but his name isn't Justin Houston.

Sucks that Houston doesn't get to face the shittiest line in football until December. :D

[WhawhaWhat]

Here’s the info on Houston’s contract./[/url]


<iframe src="http://www.spotrac.com/widget/player/7789/" width="610px" height="610px" frameborder="0" ></iframe>

[PAChiefsGuy]

Lol @ the people still defending Houston. It's obvious he's either lost motivation or offensive lineman have figured out how to block him. And stop with the Von Miller comparisons. Miller currently leads the NFL in sacks with 4 and last year he was doubled more than anyone.

J Houston is nothing but a good run defender and okay pass rusher now. Unless his play dramatically improves the rest of the season (which it more than likely won't) he needs to go.

[Mecca]

Which host is this? Bob Fescoe or KK are my guesses.

Fescoes show was the first line...the disinformation from Bob Sutton was Carringtons show, 610 is very heavily pushing that Houston is a turd.

[Chiefnj2]

It's a long season. Wait and see. First two games have been extremely underwhelming. With Ford and Jones generating pressure Houston should find his way to the QB more often than he has. The few times I tried to focus on him, he didn't look like he had much of a dip and speed anymore.

[kccrow]

If you do cut Houston and let Ford go, or really just let Ford go this team is probably going to be in the market for a pass rusher who may come on the cheap..

Dante Fowler and Shane Ray are probably going to be options for this team in FA...

I'm all for signing Fowler no matter what. He's a solid situational pass rusher and he's still only 24.

[Mecca]

Lol @ the people still defending Houston. It's obvious he's either lost motivation or offensive lineman have figured out how to block him. And stop with the Von Miller comparisons. Miller currently leads the NFL in sacks with 4 and last year he was doubled more than anyone.

J Houston is nothing but a good run defender and okay pass rusher now. Unless his play dramatically improves the rest of the season (which it more than likely won't) he needs to go.

If this team roles with Speaks and Kpass you'll pine to have him back because those guys are way worse...

[OKchiefs]

They can’t even begin to consider releasing Houston until Speaks or KPass show that they’re actually good players.

Sure they can. If Ford has a good season they can franchise him. Cutting Houston saves $14 million against the cap that can be used on a pass rusher or elsewhere. They should look at drafting one as well in the 1st or 2nd round. It's not like Houston is providing this huge performance on a weekly basis that can't be replaced. We're the worst defense in the league.

[kccrow]

Lol @ the people still defending Houston. It's obvious he's either lost motivation or offensive lineman have figured out how to block him. And stop with the Von Miller comparisons. Miller currently leads the NFL in sacks with 4 and last year he was doubled more than anyone.

J Houston is nothing but a good run defender and okay pass rusher now. Unless his play dramatically improves the rest of the season (which it more than likely won't) he needs to go.

The sack totals were similar. Houston gets doubled and chipped a shit ton too. Justin Houston got hog-tied by the Steelers while Miller played the Seahags. Let's see how it all plays out. We're 2 games into the season for fucks sake.

[OKchiefs]

I think we can convince Shane Ray to come here on a reasonable contract, seeing as he's from here and has a Chiefs tattoo.

[Mecca]

Sure they can. If Ford has a good season they can franchise him. Cutting Houston saves $14 million against the cap that can be used on a pass rusher or elsewhere. They should look at drafting one as well in the 1st or 2nd round. It's not like Houston is providing this huge performance on a weekly basis that can't be replaced. We're the worst defense in the league.

Dude..

Dee Ford is a 1 dimensional player that gets hurt all the time, why the fuck would you want to tag him?

[Mecca]

I think we can convince Shane Ray to come here on a reasonable contract, seeing as he's from here and has a Chiefs tattoo.

That is a possible option but lets be real, that is a reclamation project that you are hoping to turn into production for cheap it's not like he's been good so far.

He's basically Dee Ford, he's a broke dick without a ton of production but you probably get him cheaper.

[TEX]

That is a possible option but lets be real, that is a reclamation project that you are hoping to turn into production for cheap it's not like he's been good so far.

He's basically Dee Ford, he's a broke dick without a ton of production but you probably get him cheaper.

In other words a "Veach-Type of Player."

[OKchiefs]

Dude..

Dee Ford is a 1 dimensional player that gets hurt all the time, why the fuck would you want to tag him?

To see if he can stay healthy. He's still our best pass rusher so far. If he can approach double digit sacks in 2018 and 2019 I'd offer him a long term contract.

[TEX]

Dude..

Dee Ford is a 1 dimensional player that gets hurt all the time, why the **** would you want to tag him?

Exactly. NO WAY I'd want THAT guy to be tying up significant cap $$$ that could be used elsewhere for improvements.

[Prison Bitch]

More local yokels demanding anothe Mizzou trash signing. As if we have learned the lesson 80 times already

Ray by analytics ratings is virtually worthless. He wouldn't even be a poor mans Ford

[Mecca]

Like it or not, this team is going to have to spend FA money and at least 1 draft pick on OLB yet again.

[Mecca]

More local yokels demanding anothe Mizzou trash signing. As if we have learned the lesson 80 times already

Ray by analytics ratings is virtually worthless. He wouldn't even be a poor mans Ford

He'll get signed for virtually nothing, teams take former first round picks and see if they can make something of them all the time...matter of fact we have 2 of those guys starting on this fucking team...that's right up Veach's alley.

[TEX]

To see if he can stay healthy. He's still our best pass rusher so far. If he can approach double digit sacks in 2018 and 2019 I'd offer him a long term contract.

I get that, but then you're open to him being a virtual "no-show" for the duration of the contract. Long term deals are a risk with any player, but he more than most, because that's his history. I sure would not be willing to take that chance, but that's just my opinion.

[Mecca]

I doubt I'd ever be ok with paying Dee Ford, he just doesn't do enough to warrant taking up a bunch of money, we'll end up in another spot where a guy who is paid never plays.

[kccrow]

He'll get signed for virtually nothing, teams take former first round picks and see if they can make something of them all the time...matter of fact we have 2 of those guys starting on this fucking team...that's right up Veach's alley.

I'd rather that "alley" be Fowler than Ray.

[chiefzilla1501]

Lol @ the people still defending Houston. It's obvious he's either lost motivation or offensive lineman have figured out how to block him. And stop with the Von Miller comparisons. Miller currently leads the NFL in sacks with 4 and last year he was doubled more than anyone.

J Houston is nothing but a good run defender and okay pass rusher now. Unless his play dramatically improves the rest of the season (which it more than likely won't) he needs to go.

He's an exceptional run and pass defender. I don't for a second question his heart. He's not the elite pass rusher he once was. But he's still good at it. I think his lower production has a lot more to do with Sutton not finding creative ways enough to create pressure. Seems like we have fewer rushers asked to do more.

[Mecca]

I'd rather that "alley" be Fowler than Ray.

I understand that, Fowler will likely get more money though.

I only threw them out there because really great pass rushers don't get to FA and they'll make it because they've been disappointing. Not sure who else will make it out there...

Team also needs to make a play for a competent CB and probably a DE so this will be a fun year of trying to find some productive dudes who aren't asking for shit tons of money.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

If Ford played like he has so far for a full 16 games, I’d probably franchise him. Depending on KPass and Speaks’ development.

No long term deal, but I’d keep him on a deal that will continue to motivate him, then let him go.

[RunKC]

Houston has not been as bad as people are claiming. Same with Chris Jones.

Ideally I would like it if we could restructure Houston’s deal without pushing money back (convert money to guaranteed in 2019 to lower cap hit), use that money saved tofranchise Dee Ford and draft a pass rusher in the first rd. 2019 draft is stacked with excellent pass rushers.

I want to keep as many good rushers as possible

[OKchiefs]

Kpass needs to start getting more playing time.

[Mecca]

Well I highly doubt KPass or Speaks is gonna show much seeing as Kpass gets less snaps than Speaks and Speaks looks like a fat guy who has no burst.

[BigBeauford]

LMAO defense is 4 of our top 6 cap hits. What a joke.

Justin Houston OLB $20,600,000 11.46
Eric Fisher LT $13,950,000 7.76
Eric Berry SS $13,000,000 7.23
Travis Kelce TE $9,955,900 5.54
Dee Ford OLB $8,718,000 4.85
Allen Bailey DE $7,968,750 4.43

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Houston has not been as bad as people are claiming. Same with Chris Jones.

Ideally I would like it if we could restructure Houston’s deal without pushing money back (convert money to guaranteed in 2019 to lower cap hit), use that money saved tofranchise Dee Ford and draft a pass rusher in the first rd. 2019 draft is stacked with excellent pass rushers.

I want to keep as many good rushers as possible

This is my thought as well. If we could stash 6-8 guys who can do a good job, we can rotate them with big leads.

[TEX]

He'll get signed for virtually nothing, teams take former first round picks and see if they can make something of them all the time...matter of fact we have 2 of those guys starting on this ****ing team...that's right up Veach's alley.

Yep. And I too labeled him a "Veach Guy" earlier in this thread... Man, I so get the whole "Low Risk - High Reward" signing, ALL GM's like those deals. The issue I have though is if you count on too many to fill positions of great need, then they become HIGH RISKS to fill all of the said needs.

[O.city]

This is my thought as well. If we could stash 6-8 guys who can do a good job, we can rotate them with big leads.

Spooky ghoul

[O.city]

Wonder if the cardinals would trade nkemdiche?

[Eleazar]

If he gets hurt again, no question he needs to go. Club/tub

Otherwise he needs to restructure into something extremely team friendly, because he's a role player at this point, and his contract was a titanic mistake.

If he won't do that, we can let him go with confidence knowing that we're probably better off drafting a replacement and giving his snaps to younger players who might ascend anyway, since the defense is rebuilding. And we won't lose much production really.

[Mecca]

Yep. And I too labeled him a "Veach Guy" earlier in this thread... Man, I so get the whole "Low Risk - High Reward" signing, ALL GM's like those deals. The issue I have though is if you count on too many to fill positions of great need, then they become HIGH RISKS to fill the collection of said needs.

Sometimes throwing numbers at it works, you sign a guy that basically knows this is his last shot, you draft a dude relatively early to compete and then all of the sudden you might have something.

[Mecca]

If he gets hurt again, no question he needs to go. Club/tub

Otherwise he needs to restructure into something extremely team friendly, because he's a role player at this point, and his contract was a titanic mistake.

If he won't do that, we can let him go with confidence knowing that we're probably better off drafting a replacement and giving his snaps to younger players who might ascend anyway, since the defense is rebuilding. And we won't lose much production really.

Yea..if you don't sign that contract though people look at you right now the way the Raiders are looked at. "That joke of a franchise won't even pay it's best player"

Not a rep you want.

[Mecca]

Wonder if the cardinals would trade nkemdiche?

They should trade like half their defense and anyone that has value. They are years away from competing and need pieces for Rosen...they're dumb with a defensive HC though so they won't do it.

[TEX]

Sometimes throwing numbers at it works, you sign a guy that basically knows this is his last shot, you draft a dude relatively early to compete and then all of the sudden you might have something.

Yep. The draft pick is a MUST in the situation.

[Mecca]

Hey Clowney is a FA after this year want him?

Think Ezekial Ansah can stand up because Detroit probably won't keep him either.

[Eleazar]

Yea..if you don't sign that contract though people look at you right now the way the Raiders are looked at. "That joke of a franchise won't even pay it's best player"

Not a rep you want.

He'd just be a broken down member of some other team today, and we'd all be saying that the Chiefs cut bait at the right time.

Which is something we don't often find ourselves saying.

[Mecca]

He'd just be a broken down member of some other team today, and we'd all be saying that the Chiefs cut bait at the right time.

Which is something we don't often find ourselves saying.

Had he left he'd probably still be a monster cause well yea.

Seriously though had they not paid him it would have looked horrible. The Raiders are going to be made fun of forever for that move.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

LMAO defense is 4 of our top 6 cap hits. What a joke.

Justin Houston OLB $20,600,000 11.46
Eric Fisher LT $13,950,000 7.76
Eric Berry SS $13,000,000 7.23
Travis Kelce TE $9,955,900 5.54
Dee Ford OLB $8,718,000 4.85
Allen Bailey DE $7,968,750 4.43

That list is kind of encouraging for the future actually.

They can clear a lot of cap space to sign important pieces like Hill without getting substantially worse. Draft reasonably well/sign affordable FAs and you can replace the production you're getting now from anyone on that list minus Kelce and Berry (and Berry may not be reliable enough to keep longterm).

[Eleazar]

Had he left he'd probably still be a monster cause well yea.

Seriously though had they not paid him it would have looked horrible. The Raiders are going to be made fun of forever for that move.

Was some other team going to give him two new knees...?

[kccrow]

Hey Clowney is a FA after this year want him?

Think Ezekial Ansah can stand up because Detroit probably won't keep him either.

Lots of decent edge rushers slated to be FA... Clay Matthews, Brian Orakpo, Jadeveon Clowney, Derrick Morgan, Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham, Ezekiel Ansah...

[Mecca]

For the record the CB FA market for next year is horrible. Safety is solid though lots of good players there.

[Mecca]

Lots of decent edge rushers slated to be FA... Clay Matthews, Brian Orakpo, Jadeveon Clowney, Derrick Morgan, Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham, Ezekiel Ansah...

I don't like Lawrence or Graham as stand up guys honestly..Morgan ehh

Matthews is still productive but GB will probably keep him.

[Gravedigger]

This year is a prove it or cut year for Houston and next year is a prove it or cut year for Berry. We need to start preparing to extend Tyreek and Mahomes.

[RunKC]

Lots of decent edge rushers slated to be FA... Clay Matthews, Brian Orakpo, Jadeveon Clowney, Derrick Morgan, Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham, Ezekiel Ansah...

Dante Fowler’s option was turned down.

That’s my pick

[kccrow]

For the record the CB FA market for next year is horrible. Safety is solid though lots of good players there.

Would love to steal Landon Collins from the G-Men and move Berry to FS, but I think they'll franchise him.

[kccrow]

I don't like Lawrence or Graham as stand up guys honestly..Morgan ehh

Matthews is still productive but GB will probably keep him.

More or less noting it could be a saturated market, which may be good for signing the next tier guys for decent money.

Dante Fowler’s option was turned down.

That’s my pick

Mine too.

[O.city]

Fowler is a headcase

[RealSNR]

I trust Houston with mega millions way more than I do Dee Ford, and we have Houston for another two seasons beyond this one.

What we should really be concerned with is, "Dee Ford's last year in KC?" not Justin Houston.

And no, I'm not making excuses for Houston. I'm just saying that he is a far more reliable player. Other than his weird knee thing that happened, he's been a healthy player. Dee Ford is always knicked with some bullshit, "Oh, I was playing on a bad hamstring all year..." excuse.

And on the field... even post-injury, I'd STILL rather have Houston than Ford.

Yes, we should absolutely restructure his deal, and I'm not necessarily against cutting him, but knowing Veach, I have yet to see him sign players to decent deals. If we tried to extend Ford, it'd be a REALLY shitty deal for us. I just know it.

Let Ford walk. Pray that one of Kpass/Speaks isn't a moldy bag of dicks. Restructure Houston's deal. And probably draft another guy.

That's how I'd handle it.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

SF has given up 9 sacks this year so it might be a good week to see guys like Houston have a big game...

[pugsnotdrugs19]

KC is going to have some real cap space to work with next offseason AND they will have a good stockpile of picks to work with.

If done right, it could be the kind of offseason that primes them for a Super Bowl run.

[Halfcan]

Houston had the biggest defensive play in the game and it was stolen by the Refs.

He had another sure sack that was negated by a blatant hold and Ben throwing past the line of scrimmage.

2 sacks taken away. But the Narrative is he didn't do anything because there are no sacks on record. Do people even watch the games?

Oh yeah, he was held like crazy every play to protect Ben.

Jimmy Grapes will feel the full force of Houston this week and these kinds of threads will disappear.

[Halfcan]

KC is going to have some real cap space to work with next offseason AND they will have a good stockpile of picks to work with.

If done right, it could be the kind of offseason that primes them for a Super Bowl run.

:clap:

This is how you build a Dynasty.

[philfree]

Houston had the biggest defensive play in the game and it was stolen by the Refs.

He had another sure sack that was negated by a blatant hold and Ben throwing past the line of scrimmage.

2 sacks taken away. But the Narrative is he didn't do anything because there are no sacks on record. Do people even watch the games?

Oh yeah, he was held like crazy every play to protect Ben.

Jimmy Grapes will feel the full force of Houston this week and these kinds of threads will disappear.

I believe this is so.

[WhiteWhale]

Well, if the refs hadn't decided (for whatever reason) that offensive holding was going to be completely legal for the game Houston probably has 2 or 3.

[RunKC]

KC is going to have some real cap space to work with next offseason AND they will have a good stockpile of picks to work with.

If done right, it could be the kind of offseason that primes them for a Super Bowl run.

We need to pay Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill and maybe Kendall Fuller this spring, so a lot of money is going to be spent.

It all comes down to draft picks. Next years draft is going to be very important.

[WhiteWhale]

Houston had the biggest defensive play in the game and it was stolen by the Refs.

He had another sure sack that was negated by a blatant hold and Ben throwing past the line of scrimmage.

2 sacks taken away. But the Narrative is he didn't do anything because there are no sacks on record. Do people even watch the games?

Oh yeah, he was held like crazy every play to protect Ben.

Jimmy Grapes will feel the full force of Houston this week and these kinds of threads will disappear.

Exactly. Houston balled, and was a big reason KC held the Steelers to 3/11 on 3rd down.

[WhiteWhale]

We need to pay Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill and maybe Kendall Fuller this spring, so a lot of money is going to be spent.

It all comes down to draft picks. Next years draft is going to be very important.

Every draft is important. With the way NFL rosters turnover, you basically NEED to acquire at least 1 new young starter. Preferably 2 a year. I just mean guys out of college, not free agents. Otherwise your roster falls behind.

KC has way too many DB's that have not panned out. Who's scouting these guys?

[chiefzilla1501]

We need to pay Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill and maybe Kendall Fuller this spring, so a lot of money is going to be spent.

It all comes down to draft picks. Next years draft is going to be very important.

I'm glad we didn't pay too much this offseason for defensive pieces. Who we get should depend on the scheme we see ourselves running 4-5 years from now. Not only do I question Sutton there, age wise... How much longer can the guy go? It's like grocery shopping for Italian food when your future chef cooks Greek.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

We need to pay Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill and maybe Kendall Fuller this spring, so a lot of money is going to be spent.

It all comes down to draft picks. Next years draft is going to be very important.

I’d lock up Tyreek and figure the rest out based on what happens the rest of this year

[htismaqe]

Houston had the biggest defensive play in the game and it was stolen by the Refs.

He had another sure sack that was negated by a blatant hold and Ben throwing past the line of scrimmage.

2 sacks taken away. But the Narrative is he didn't do anything because there are no sacks on record. Do people even watch the games?

Oh yeah, he was held like crazy every play to protect Ben.

Jimmy Grapes will feel the full force of Houston this week and these kinds of threads will disappear.

Everybody was held. Yet Chris Jones got penetration and even Allen Bailey got a sack. Jones even had to face doubles and still managed to play better than Houston.

The guy is eating up a HUGE chunk of cap. The excuses need to stop and the performance needs to start.

Or he needs to go away.

[Mecca]

Justin Houston is basically now the complimentary guy, the guy who can grab some sacks defend the run well drop into coverage. He has value the problem is he is paid like he is the stud...

Will he take a paycut to stick around, honestly probably not.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Justin Houston is basically now the complimentary guy, the guy who can grab some sacks defend the run well drop into coverage. He has value the problem is he is paid like he is the stud...

Will he take a paycut to stick around, honestly probably not.

If he wants a Super Bowl he will.

[Mecca]

If he wants a Super Bowl he will.

Yea but most guys won't do it with the team that paid them. They'll take the paycut to go somewhere else or they'll try to get as much as they can no matter what it is.

[ModSocks]

The holding excuses are weak.

You think Von Miller and Chandler Jones don't get held or something?

[Reerun_KC]

Paycut then yes. No paycut he can kick rocks.

[bricks]

How about they let go of both of them? And draft some passrushers instead? Could it get any worse ?

[Mecca]

How about they let go of both of them? And draft some passrushers instead? Could it get any worse ?

Good luck this team needs corners also. You aren't getting 2 OLBs and 2 CB's out of the same draft that can all play.

[saphojunkie]

Yes it is early and he may turn it around. But so far the best players on defense have been Ford, Jones, and Hitchens. Without looking at their contracts I can say they probably make a similar amount or less combined than what Houston is making.

Houston just doesn't pass the eye test anymore. He gets stood up by average tackles and doesn't make plays. He should be singlehandedly wrecking offenses at his current pay, but he doesn't.

His money needs to be used on keeping Hill, Jones, Fuller, etc. If we're going to take advantage of Mahomes' contract before he breaks the bank we can't afford to be paying so much for such little production.

Man, do some research before your hot takes.

[saphojunkie]

Houston had the biggest defensive play in the game and it was stolen by the Refs.

He had another sure sack that was negated by a blatant hold and Ben throwing past the line of scrimmage.

2 sacks taken away. But the Narrative is he didn't do anything because there are no sacks on record. Do people even watch the games?

Oh yeah, he was held like crazy every play to protect Ben.

Jimmy Grapes will feel the full force of Houston this week and these kinds of threads will disappear.


Okchiefs would rather rely on his eye test, not actually looking at contracts, and assume everyone who says “restructure” means “pay cut,” even though “restructure” is different and is wildly more likely.

[CoMoChief]

Drafting Speaks was just fucking stupid. Dorian O'Daniel too.

The 2018 draft still pisses me off to this day.

This team has a giant need at CB and S...but lets a draft a fat slow out of position project and a ST warrior with 2 of the first 3 picks in a draft w/ no 1st rd pick available to the Chiefs at the time. IMO you have to hit on an immediate starter considering the holes you have on D.

Speaks looked like he belonged on a HS field vs PIT.

[saphojunkie]

Let’s be more specific here.

In 2019, Houston is $21.1M to kept and $7.1M to cut.

But Dee ford and Allen Bailey are off the books at a total of over $17M.

Additionally, Maclin, Smith, DJ, and Tamba all count as dead money this year but not next.

Extending a 30 year old Houston two years, converting a large portion of his 2019 and 2020 salary to signing bonus gives him more money up front and guaranteed, but reduces his overall cap hit every year to a much more manageable amount.

This is why the best way to save money on Houston is paying him more. It’s just math.

[RunKC]

Drafting Speaks was just ****ing stupid. Dorian O'Daniel too.

The 2018 draft still pisses me off to this day.

This team has a giant need at CB and S...but lets a draft a fat slow out of position project and a ST warrior with 2 of the first 3 picks in a draft w/ no 1st rd pick available to the Chiefs at the time. IMO you have to hit on an immediate starter considering the holes you have on D.

Speaks looked like he belonged on a HS field vs PIT.

Who were we supposed to draft?

This entire board (me included) wanted Isaiah Oliver and he hasn’t even been active for a game yet.

He also got as his asshole ripped to shreds multiple times by Gehrig fucking Deiter.

[OKchiefs]

Okchiefs would rather rely on his eye test, not actually looking at contracts, and assume everyone who says “restructure” means “pay cut,” even though “restructure” is different and is wildly more likely.

Umm, I made a post in this very thread describing the difference between restructure and renegotiate. I'm not in favor of restructuring, as it just pushes the money back to future years. Either renegotiate a lower contract or terminate the contract.

[htismaqe]

Let’s be more specific here.

In 2019, Houston is $21.1M to kept and $7.1M to cut.

But Dee ford and Allen Bailey are off the books at a total of over $17M.

Additionally, Maclin, Smith, DJ, and Tamba all count as dead money this year but not next.

Extending a 30 year old Houston two years, converting a large portion of his 2019 and 2020 salary to signing bonus gives him more money up front and guaranteed, but reduces his overall cap hit every year to a much more manageable amount.

This is why the best way to save money on Houston is paying him more. It’s just math.

And if he won't take a deal like that? He could get a much better contract on the open market, based on his name alone.

It's time to cut bait.

[OKchiefs]

Man, do some research before your hot takes.

I have done plenty of research. I don't have to read PFF advanced stats to have an informed opinion. I'm not sure why you have such a hard on for me. Just read Mellinger's article in the Star from today. Ford and Jones have both been more productive rushing the passer so far this season.

[The Franchise]

Who were we supposed to draft?

This entire board (me included) wanted Isaiah Oliver and he hasn’t even been active for a game yet.

He also got as his asshole ripped to shreds multiple times by Gehrig fucking Deiter.

Bates would look good in this defense about right now.

[htismaqe]

Bates would look good in this defense about right now.

Norman Bates?

Kathy Bates?

Heck, GRANVILLE Bates would look good in this defense!

[Mecca]

You'll also get the Harold Landry and Josh Jackson talk because they went right before Speaks did.

[DRM08]

So what kind of pay cut? 50%?

[htismaqe]

You'll also get the Harold Landry and Josh Jackson talk because they went right before Speaks did.

Josh Jackson would look really good in red and gold right now as much zone as we are playing.

[Mecca]

I questioned Jackson when I thought this was a mostly man team, now he'd be fine here.

[htismaqe]

I questioned Jackson when I thought this was a mostly man team, now he'd be fine here.

Same here - he's a prototypical zone corner. Of course, if we had better DB's, would we be playing so much zone?

[JakeF]

They will undoubtedly restructure. This offseason is the perfect time to do it. It's a win for both the Chiefs and Houston. Houston would rather get paid less for a protected contract.
No.

A restructure means that we tie Houston up even longer with his salary cap hit. He can take a pay cut since he isn't worth even close to what he is getting paid but no restructure.

[saphojunkie]

No.

A restructure means that we tie Houston up even longer with his salary cap hit. He can take a pay cut since he isn't worth even close to what he is getting paid but no restructure.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that a restructure LOWERS the cap hit.

[OKchiefs]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that a restructure LOWERS the cap hit.

Lowers the cap hit in the current season. It still pushes that money into later seasons. Restructuring just makes the cap hit higher later.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Hey Clowney is a FA after this year want him?

Think Ezekial Ansah can stand up because Detroit probably won't keep him either.

Clowney is only 25 and has started 30 of their last 32 games.
He has some incredible physical traits. I thought coming out he could be a future DPOY.
We Chiefs love us some physical freaks too so he fits the bill there.

And according to profootballreference his nickname is
Doo Doo
Get it done Veach.

[JakeF]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that a restructure LOWERS the cap hit.
Why do people have such a hard time understanding that a restructure LOWERS the cap hit but doesn't lower the amount of money the player is paid or how much he counts against the cap? All a restructure does is push the salary cap hit a few years later and almost always makes the hit worse.

[saphojunkie]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that a restructure LOWERS the cap hit but doesn't lower the amount of money the player is paid or how much he counts against the cap? All a restructure does is push the salary cap hit a few years later and almost always makes the hit worse.

It can lower the cap hit next year, and while it would raise the cap hit in later years, the high water mark comes down. You can go from a 20 million dollar cap hit for the next year to like 10-13 a year for the next three, which frankly I think he’s worth.

[OKchiefs]

It can lower the cap hit this year, and while it would raise he cap hit in later years, the high water mark comes down. You can go from a 20 million dollar cap hit for the next two years to like 13 a year for the next four, which frankly I think he’s worth.

Often times a restructure doesn't add additional years. It usually just means taking a portion of the base salary and converting it to a bonus so that it can be spread out over multiple years.

[htismaqe]

It can lower the cap hit next year, and while it would raise the cap hit in later years, the high water mark comes down. You can go from a 20 million dollar cap hit for the next year to like 10-13 a year for the next three, which frankly I think he’s worth.

This defense needs a complete rebuild. That's still too much.

Not only is he not himself and on the backside of a severe injury, he's almost 30 years old. Good teams don't keep players like him.

[Eleazar]

Clowney is only 25 and has started 30 of their last 32 games.
He has some incredible physical traits. I thought coming out he could be a future DPOY.
We Chiefs love us some physical freaks too so he fits the bill there.

And according to profootballreference his nickname is
Doo Doo
Get it done Veach.

We should probably be pursuing any pass rusher we think we can land. It's not like you can have too many.

[saphojunkie]

Often times a restructure doesn't add additional years. It usually just means taking a portion of the base salary and converting it to a bonus so that it can be spread out over multiple years.

That must be the disconnect. I am talking about an extension and conversion of salary to bonus, with lower annual salary to bring the cap hit down.

[htismaqe]

That must be the disconnect. I am talking about an extension and conversion of salary to bonus, with lower annual salary to bring the cap hit down.

Signing bonuses still count against the cap. And if you extend the number of years, you spread out the cap hit of the bonus, paying for it after the guy is gone.

[Couch-Potato]

I'd like to see a combination of a new Defensive Coordinator + Scheme, and Justin Houston & Eric Berry restructure. I'd also add another all defensive draft in 2019.

[OKchiefs]

I'd like to see a combination of a new Defensive Coordinator + Scheme, and Justin Houston & Eric Berry restructure. I'd also add another all defensive draft in 2019.

I'd be fine with that, except for a center should be taken somewhere in rounds 2-3. I don't want to sink money into Morse.

[Couch-Potato]

I'd be fine with that, except for a center should be taken somewhere in rounds 2-3. I don't want to sink money into Morse.

I'm with you, defense and lineman should be about it next draft.

[Coach]

This defense needs a complete rebuild. That's still too much.

Not only is he not himself and on the backside of a severe injury, he's almost 30 years old. Good teams don't keep players like him.

I think at this point, in my opinion, keep Houston for 2019, let Ford go, and draft a OLB or find one on the FA. Then in 2020, that will depends how Houston performs in 2019. If he performs well in 2019, then keep him on until 2020 (to buy you some more time to find his replacement(s))

While Houston isn't the premier pass rusher like he used to be, he's not worthless by any means of the imagination. Also, he's better rounded OLB than Ford is, and Ford is only a one trick pony.

And this is just an assumption. But if Houston, for all intents and purposes, does look done, then I could see the Chiefs extending Ford, and designate Houston as a post 6/1.

The only scenario I could see that Houston and Ford being gone is if there is a new DC and new defensive scheme.

[WhiteWhale]

The holding excuses are weak.

You think Von Miller and Chandler Jones don't get held or something?

Yeah well, let me know when we get to play Oakland.

Not to mention that unmitigated disaster they call an offensive line in Seattle.

Houston passed my eye test last week after a disappointing week 1.

[Chargem]

Cutting Houston and tagging Ford would be madness, tag would be north of $15m and then $7.5m of dead cap from Houston means 1 OLB slot on the roster is costing you probably $25m and you're getting Ford for that? Insanity.

There's $50m in cap space as it stands right now for 2019 with Berry and Houston on no kind of re-structure, even after re-signing role players and looking at an extension or two you're still probably looking at $25-30m to spend on free agents on the defense next year, seems like a decent amount of cash to me?

I'd probably look at big name safety and D line free agents, then look at lower cost serviceable options for OLB and CB with all top 3 draft picks going on the defense again.

[notorious]

I hate that he hasn’t been on the field, and he is grossly overpaid because of it.


If he plays championship level football this year it will erase my negative thoughts towards his recent past “production”.

Tagging Ford is insanity.

[COchief]

He generally seems to play slow and looks ten years older on the field, something about that injury or maybe his motivation has fallen off. He looks like DJ 2 years ago, just doesn't have the speed or fire anymore. I will say he is fantastic at setting the edge on his side and containing and occasionally blowing up sweeps/screens/off tackle runs which is an underrated skill that doesn't always hit the stat sheets. Buttons use of him is also in question, but that is a whole other can of worms.

My general feeling on mega second contracts the last few years is just trade them or let them walk and take the 3rd. I'll take two young, healthy, hungry and relatively cheap Dee Fords/Hitchens/Raglands/Kpasses over a $20 million LB gamble any day. Same for any future Berry types, give me the Abdullah/Parker (2015ish)/3-5th round draft pick over our other $20mm gamble who took the team for every single red cent his agent could get. If one is that valuable just franchise them year to year. Essentially the modern NFL RB approach, get that cheap first contract and then make the smart business decision.

I wasn't screaming from the podium when the numbers came out on both deals, but I can say my gut feeling was they were both too much with no options for the team regarding cut/trade. ROI between 50/29 has been crap the last 3-4 years, two salaries combined are probably north of $100 million+ and in return we got one good season out of 29 and the rest are hurt/gimpy/average years between the two. Locker room/team/rah-rah stuff aside, both of those deals are a huge fail at this point.

[Reerun_KC]

man Chiefs fans love hanging onto to their fan favorites of yesteryear a year or two late.

Happens when grown men wear jerseys of other grown men.

[bigjosh]

It seems a lot more people are coming around finally. Justin Houston has been ineffective for years now.

[Reerun_KC]

It seems a lot more people are coming around finally. Justin Houston has been ineffective for years now.

You do realize that someone bought his jersey right?

[saphojunkie]

God all you morons can suck my fucking dick. That’s Houston’s second strip sack of the season and maybe his fourth sack total without penalties away from the play.

[Rausch]

God all you morons can suck my ****ing dick. That’s Houston’s second strip sack of the season and maybe his fourth sack total without penalties away from the play.

He is by far the best player on this defense but it doesn't show up on PFF or the stat sheet so it doesn't matter.

As soon as the reigns are loosed he's a fucking monster IMMEDIATELY.

HE'S PLAING IN THE DEFENSE.

[rabblerouser]

Send Houston and 3rd to Seattle for Earl Thomas...

[Rausch]

Send Houston and 3rd to Seattle for Earl Thomas...

Kindly go fuck yourself...

[rabblerouser]

Kindly go **** yourself...

Is there any other way to do it?

[Fish]

God all you morons can suck my fucking dick. That’s Houston’s second strip sack of the season and maybe his fourth sack total without penalties away from the play.

This.

[ThaVirus]

He played well today. He should have had three sacks, if not for letting Jimmy G out of his grasp a couple times.

At any rate, the one he notched was in a huge, huge moment. If we'd have recovered the fumble you guys would be sucking his dick.

[Rausch]

Is there any other way to do it?

If you aren't a fan of Houston I'd suggest violently, but, I guess we should all get a vote in that...











...:)

[TambaBerry]

another stupid opinion on Houston lol

this again

[Eleazar]

Well he’s made one big play on the season now. That’s a step in the right direction...

[rabblerouser]

Well he’s made one big play on the season now. That’s a step in the right direction...

Let's see if he can do it two weeks in a row!

[pugsnotdrugs19]

91.2 PFF grade for yesterday. Big game.

[kgrund]

I personally think his energy level right now stinks. He needs to get some film out and watch how Miller and Mack approach this thing. They are running around like their hair is on fire flying around the football. Heck when Aaron Rogers' threw the go ahead TD for the Packers in Week 1, Mack ran the whole field trying to make the tackle. Houston whiffs on getting Jimmy G on a sack yesterday and loops around after missing him jogging. He acts like he has played 80 snaps no matter what time in the game. IMO he just seems like he is dogging it.

[Molitoth]

I'd be curious to see how many times Houston was dropped into coverage during his prime years under Sutton in comparison to how much he is on coverage now.

Anyone curious/bored enough to research this stat?

[htismaqe]

I'd be curious to see how many times Houston was dropped into coverage during his prime years under Sutton in comparison to how much he is on coverage now.

Anyone curious/bored enough to research this stat?

I don't have time to do the research now but I can say this:

Sutton's zone blitz scheme was similarly criticized when he was with the Jets.

[Mecca]

Justin Houston was our Lawrence Taylor, now he's Carl Banks a fine player in his own right just not a cornerstone pass rusher.

[New World Order]

For what Houston brings isn't his contract comparable to the better players in the league right now?

[Mecca]

For what Houston brings isn't his contract comparable to the better players in the league right now?

Not really, if you aren't a league leading pass rusher his contract is kind of ridiculous.

He's a good do it all player right now he's not elite anymore so he probably should make about half of what he does.

[FloridaMan88]

For what Houston brings isn't his contract comparable to the better players in the league right now?

In terms of 2018 cap hits, Justin Houston has a higher cap hit than Khalil Mack and Von Miller.

Link: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/outside-linebacker/

[htismaqe]

In terms of 2018 cap hits, Justin Houston has a higher cap hit than Khalil Mack and Von Miller.

Link: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/outside-linebacker/

Ouch.

[O.city]

Well, yeah. He's further along in his deal than Khalil.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hes still Elite. Fucking morons and abomination of a thread.

[Mecca]

Ouch.

Yea his contract is older, that's just how it is.

[BlackOp]

Hes still Elite. ****ing morons and abomination of a thread.

What do you think he would get paid if he hit the open market? It certainly wouldn't be $20+ million a year.

[Buehler445]

Cutting Houston and tagging Ford would be madness, tag would be north of $15m and then $7.5m of dead cap from Houston means 1 OLB slot on the roster is costing you probably $25m and you're getting Ford for that? Insanity.

There's $50m in cap space as it stands right now for 2019 with Berry and Houston on no kind of re-structure, even after re-signing role players and looking at an extension or two you're still probably looking at $25-30m to spend on free agents on the defense next year, seems like a decent amount of cash to me?

I'd probably look at big name safety and D line free agents, then look at lower cost serviceable options for OLB and CB with all top 3 draft picks going on the defense again.

I took heat for saying the same thing about Hill. I’m not sure I want to be at the top of the market for anyone except Mahomes (provided he deserves it). There just isn’t the return.

It is and always has been a function of productivity (in this case plays that win games) per unit salary. There just aren’t enough plays available at any position to afford to go out and be at the top of the market except QB.

I think in practice it would never work - you probably can’t be cheap everywhere. And I’m totally not against Free Agents. Just not ones at the top of the market.

Before I get put on blast again, I am open to being wrong about Hill. But if he wants OBJ money we are probably better off letting him get it elsewhere.

Justin Houston was our Lawrence Taylor, now he's Carl Banks a fine player in his own right just not a cornerstone pass rusher.

That’s a really good comparison.

[BlackOp]

I took heat for saying the same thing about Hill. I’m not sure I want to be at the top of the market for anyone except Mahomes (provided he deserves it). There just isn’t the return.

It is and always has been a function of productivity (in this case plays that win games) per unit salary. There just aren’t enough plays available at any position to afford to go out and be at the top of the market except QB.

I think in practice it would never work - you probably can’t be cheap everywhere. And I’m totally not against Free Agents. Just not ones at the top of the market.

Before I get put on blast again, I am open to being wrong about Hill. But if he wants OBJ money we are probably better off letting him get it elsewhere.



That’s a really good comparison.

Depends on how well Hill does this year...he looks to still be getting better and with Mahomes arm, it might be worth tying him up for the better part of his career. He's a one of a kind player...you cant just go draft his replacement. When you have a player that is so much better than than everyone on the field...you pay them. He's what you hope and pray a draft pick becomes.

When Hill ages..he's still going to be faster than 80% of the WRs. If he keeps working his craft...he could have a S.Smith type of extended career.

[Molitoth]

What do you think he would get paid if he hit the open market? It certainly wouldn't be $20+ million a year.

I think it depends on what other DC's see in Houston and think of the way Sutton uses him.

If a team thinks Suttons scheme is retarded, they are going to pay money for a proven pass rusher.