Chiefs Taking a closer look at the run defense [Archive]

RunKC

10-02-2018, 07:20 PM

Let’s review how awful the defense played.

From the get go, here is Kendall Fuller missing an easy tackle he should have made at the LOS. 2 yard gain at the most turns into double-digits.

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Next Nnandi loses leverage to the ****ing FB who easily weighs 100 lbs less than him. Also no excuse for Ragland to not make this play. He’s in front and should come crashing through

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Allen Bailey gets destroyed. Hitchens is helpless. Please sign Jordan Phillips.

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Welp..3v2 and we lose. Just can’t help but laugh

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Same play. 3v2 AGAIN. Please don’t be a retard and blame Sutton for this shit. This is ALL on the players

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Rain Man

10-02-2018, 07:27 PM

I feel like it's the ILBs. They're moving to the wrong gaps consistently, and then not beating blocks when they make the right reads.

RunKC

10-02-2018, 07:31 PM

also to note: I didn’t see one long run that was Hitchens fault. I’m not blaming him for the TD run. There were 4 Chiefs in front of him that missed tackles. Impossible situation for him to stop the RB at that angle.

Mecca

10-02-2018, 07:37 PM

Hitchens plays like a guy who isn't use to the scheme, he spent his whole career in a cover 2 and he also played with guys he could trust, here not so much.

htismaqe

10-02-2018, 07:38 PM

I feel like it's the ILBs. They're moving to the wrong gaps consistently, and then not beating blocks when they make the right reads.

The line is terrible, I don't know how the LB's are going to be successful when the line is this bad.

Eleazar

10-02-2018, 07:40 PM

Every part of their play seems to be awful. Guys aren't where they need to be, they are consistently losing their individual battles, and when they are in position to make a play they get run over or let the ball carrier slip right through their arms.

The opening weeks' excuses about "HOF quarterbacks" continue to fall flat as the defense is playing just as poorly against lesser competition - irrespective of the ability of the Keenums of the world to hit wide open receivers.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead and blame Sutton for Fuller being in the hole and getting run over, or fullbacks easily blocking a defensive tackle, or for three red helmets being around a ball carrier while they all miss him. Sutton can't be blamed for these assclowns not doing their jobs.

TambaBerry

10-02-2018, 07:42 PM

The second gif was just good play by the blockers. Sometimes you just get beat. All the other ones are horrible though.

Mecca

10-02-2018, 07:44 PM

That first one, Kendall Fuller is half that guys size, the only chance he stands is to literally try to chop his knees, a CB in the hole with a full steam RB is just not gonna work.

CoMoChief

10-02-2018, 07:45 PM

shitgoose

10-02-2018, 07:45 PM

Last night I was praying Allen Bailey would retire during halftime

Mecca

10-02-2018, 07:47 PM

Last night I was praying Allen Bailey would retire during halftime

His backup is worse than he is...so it wouldn't help.

RunKC

10-02-2018, 08:06 PM

2nd half was much better, mostly because Denver went full retard and passed every down in the 4th quarter.

Rare edge fail by Houston. He went inside when it went outside.

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Allen Bailey FFS. You have to make that tackle for a 1 yard gain. And Terrance Smith is AIDS. We need O’Daniel on the field soon.

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That’s it.

htismaqe

10-02-2018, 08:14 PM

The Chiefs are just really fucking bad at tackling.

This has been a problem for years.

Is it coaching? Is it even something that you can really coach, at this level? To me it's you're either good at it, or you're not. I mean Bob Sutton isn't going to be able to do anything, call up any scheme, wave a magic wand etc to make it better. They're just taking bad angles and they're not wrapping up.

I don't understand why they're so bad at it.

Is it the way NFL practices are ran now, with relation to current CBA rules etc?

Are players just more afraid to hurt now more than ever so they're just practicing different?

One thing's for sure. Ever since Jim Johnson's death, Reid's defenses have taken the back seat on his teams. Look no further than the way the Chiefs have drafted. Yes the Chiefs had a lot of already established veterans, but Reid's only had a couple players drafted on D that have turned out to be solid picks. Jones, Peters (traded), and maybe Nelson although he's really JAG.

I think it's a combination of things.

1) You're right. If they can't tackle by the time they reach the NFL, there's not much coaches can do to fix it. Bad habits are bad habits.

2) I think part of it is the lack of full contact practices. The NFL rules have all but eliminated off season contact.

3) I think part of it is just big league sports in general. There's more focus on highlight reels than discipline and fundamentals.

4) Finally, the talent is a huge problem. Forget Sutton for a minute, we all want him fired at this point. When this defense was still largely a Herm/Pioli core (Berry, DJ, Hali, Houston, Poe) the defense was pretty darn good for the most part. As those guys declined or got hurt, there was simply nobody behind them to replace them.

RealSNR

10-02-2018, 08:18 PM

Is Ben Niemann the second coming of Lawrence Taylor? Probably not.

Is he probably better than Terrance Smith?

I mean, considering Smith couldn't tackle an old lady in a wheelchair if his life depended on it...

O.city

10-02-2018, 08:19 PM

Watch Denver’s d. They’re good normally against the run.

They play aggressive downhill and get off blocks to make plays. Chiefs just seem to play on their heels so much.

I don’t think it’s that much of a talent thing as it’s just not working

Pitt Gorilla

10-02-2018, 08:21 PM

The amount of missteps by the front seven is insane. We literally set up their blocks for them.

I wonder what film session is like with these clowns.

O.city

10-02-2018, 08:23 PM

That’s the thing with the best defenses now, sure they make highlight plays, but they win individual matchups and they play fundamentally sound.

The chiefs don’t. It looks to me like they’re thinking instead of reacting

RunKC

10-02-2018, 08:25 PM

Few things to note:

-They purposefully ran away from Chris Jones.
-Xavier Williams is really good. I hope Veach extends him bc he’s really cheap and our best run stuffing DL.

Biggest problem really is Ragland and T. Smith. I think Ragland’s knee has been a problem though.

ROYC75

10-02-2018, 08:35 PM

Allen Bailey gets destroyed.

Kinda harsh on that double team of Bailey son!

htismaqe

10-02-2018, 08:41 PM

Kinda harsh on that double team of Bailey son!

He chipped him and moved to the 2nd level. Bailey got housed after that, locked up with 60 one on one.

ThaVirus

10-02-2018, 09:07 PM

The second gif was just good play by the blockers. Sometimes you just get beat. All the other ones are horrible though.

It was a good call against that front. Looks like some type of trap.

Nnadi needs to keep his head on a swivel. Hopefully that play is a learning experience for him.

ROYC75

10-02-2018, 09:12 PM

He chipped him and moved to the 2nd level. Bailey got housed after that, locked up with 60 one on one.

Still was enough to push him left and left him squared up with 60 as the runner went through the hole.

Sorry man, there just are not many guys that can beat that quick double team trap.

Bailey has no chance on that play!

htismaqe

10-02-2018, 09:15 PM

Still was enough to push him left and left him squared up with 60 as the runner went through the hole.

Sorry man, there just are not many guys that can beat that quick double team trap.

Bailey has no chance on that play!

Well, he got stood up by 66 in the GIF right above that. He's just not that impressive. Especially considering how long he's been in the league.

ROYC75

10-02-2018, 09:44 PM

Well, he got stood up by 66 in the GIF right above that. He's just not that impressive. Especially considering how long he's been in the league.

Now that I wasn't questioning nor will I, it was the gif that had him up against a double team. That was a bad gif to use about his inability to tackle the runner.

ChiefAshhole1056

10-02-2018, 11:57 PM

Our DL is trash.

Chris Jones lost a bunch of weight this offseason to gain some explosion and speed but instead is getting bullied because he’s not strong enough. This is detrimental because he was our only sure thing going into the season.

Bailey is the softest giant in the league. You’d think he’d be a monster due to his size and bulk, but he has never been a consistent threat at the position and does not provide the type of anchor you’d think someone his stature would. He’s not a starting quality DE at this point.

Xavier Williams is just a guy, Derrick Nnadi hasn’t shown much to give any hope, and Jenkins and Hamilton shouldn’t be seeing the field.

This is by far the weakest link on the team and we will be bullied in the trenches until we bring others in.

New World Order

10-03-2018, 12:06 AM

Bailey has an 8 million dollar cap hit too.

Good god

They need to move Speaks inside next season and have him replace Bailey.

ChiefAshhole1056

10-03-2018, 12:13 AM

Bailey has an 8 million dollar cap hit too.

Good god

They need to move Speaks inside next season and have him replace Bailey.

Speaks looks hugeeee out there too. He doesn’t look right at OLB, he shouldn’t be dropping into coverage at that size, he just doesn’t have that type of ability. Hopefully they bump him inside at some point this year. I don’t think he’s a good candidate for an OLB-convert project.

PunkinDrublic

10-03-2018, 12:15 AM

Definitely a talent issue. I blame Dorsey and Veach for not finding adequate replacements when our aging stars were on their last legs. The broken tackles are inexcusable.

Buckweath

10-03-2018, 06:30 AM

Definitely a talent issue. I blame Dorsey and Veach for not finding adequate replacements when our aging stars were on their last legs. The broken tackles are inexcusable.
Here we are again blaming Dorsey (and Veach) despite them putting arguably a top 5 team on the field.

Some of you deserve John Elway.

Chiefs=Champions

10-03-2018, 06:57 AM

I think its a mix of all things.

The tackling has been bad, they need to learn to wrap up, obviously.

The secondary may be the worst tackling and run stopping secondary in the whole league. They are a bunch of smaller bodies and converted corners playing safety. It doesnt help the front 7 when you cant rely on them to come down and fill gaps.

I think Ragland has been bad. I really liked him last year but he seems to have regressed. He needs to play down hill as his speed is average at best, instead of waiting for the blocks to come to him, he needs to shoot gaps and allow hitchens to mop up. He looks far more tentative this year.

I also see the d line and olbs getting themselves washed out of plays too often. They have been bad at reacting and reading blocks, then they double down and use sloppy technique to get to where they should be.

notorious

10-03-2018, 06:58 AM

The last one the chiefs were in position until an obvious block in the back.

Probably would have missed the tackle anyway.

Mecca

10-03-2018, 07:08 AM

Here we are again blaming Dorsey (and Veach) despite them putting arguably a top 5 team on the field.

Some of you deserve John Elway.

Finding offensive talent and defensive talent are not the same thing.

This team hasn't been good at drafting d players in years.

Also Ron Parker was fucking brutal in that game.

TLO

10-03-2018, 07:28 AM

Ragland is not good

O.city

10-03-2018, 07:50 AM

Yeah, Ragland isn't good. He's supposed to be a 2 down thumper, but he's too passive.

Just put Nieman or whoever else out there.

O.city

10-03-2018, 08:01 AM

https://twitter.com/mattderrick/status/1047485345665896449?s=21

Looks like the rookies are getting phased in and Ragland phases out

TEX

10-03-2018, 08:03 AM

Ragland is not good

At anything...

O.city

10-03-2018, 08:06 AM

Nope.

Maybe it's the knee, i'm starting to think it's just him. He doesn't have a place in the league anymore with his skill set. 15 years ago sure.

Just get O'Daniel in there and playing next to Hitch.

O.city

10-03-2018, 08:09 AM

Some of that is tough to against a counter like that. That's maybe something they hadn't seen much of. Gotta be disciplined.

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 09:21 AM

At anything...

At all...

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 09:22 AM

Some of that is tough to against a counter like that. That's maybe something they hadn't seen much of. Gotta be disciplined.

Houston has been seeing that Denver cutback stuff for years.

Yet on the first play of the game, he crashed down inside, failed to set the edge, and gave up a huge run right off the bat.

RaidersOftheCellar

10-03-2018, 10:00 AM

I don't understand the "tackling can't be coached" thought.

A good staff should definitely be able to improve tackling.

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 10:24 AM

I don't understand the "tackling can't be coached" thought.

A good staff should definitely be able to improve tackling.

When your boss comes to you and asks you to do an Excel Spreadsheet, do you say "you're gonna have to teach me to do that"?

These guys are PROFESSIONALS. In any other job, you either are able to do the basics or you don't have a job. That still applies to football players.

PunkinDrublic

10-03-2018, 10:26 AM

Here we are again blaming Dorsey (and Veach) despite them putting arguably a top 5 team on the field.

Some of you deserve John Elway.

That doesn't put them above criticism for failing to find enough talent to field an adequate defense. We're seeing the same missed tackles, sloppy angles and failure to wrap up in the last two weeks that we saw against the Titans.

carcosa

10-03-2018, 10:34 AM

I hope they get better at it!

RaidersOftheCellar

10-03-2018, 10:42 AM

When your boss comes to you and asks you to do an Excel Spreadsheet, do you say "you're gonna have to teach me to do that"?

These guys are PROFESSIONALS. In any other job, you either are able to do the basics or you don't have a job. That still applies to football players.

Then why have tackling drills?

Sure, it'd be nice to just cut half the defense and replace them with better tacklers and superior all-around players. Since that's not an option, they'd better be devoting time to tackling form.

Tackling could be the one issue preventing the Chiefs from being a SB favorite right now. It also shouldn't be that damn hard to improve. It's not like asking a QB to grow another arm.

O.city

10-03-2018, 10:46 AM

They aren't doing tackling drills in practice during the season.

lcarus

10-03-2018, 10:46 AM

This team cannot tackle. It's one of the worst tackling defenses I've ever seen. If we could learn to do that, we'd improve quite a bit.

MahiMike

10-03-2018, 10:48 AM

If we are saying that our team hasn't tackled well for years then it's on the coaching to change that. It can't be every guy coming in here sucks.

RaidersOftheCellar

10-03-2018, 10:50 AM

They aren't doing tackling drills in practice during the season.

But in this case, they should be.

Do they want to win the SB or not?

carcosa

10-03-2018, 10:51 AM

If we are saying that our team hasn't tackled well for years then it's on the coaching to change that. It can't be every guy coming in here sucks.

This is very true!

The Franchise

10-03-2018, 10:51 AM

They aren't doing tackling drills in practice during the season.

This.

Practices are about running through schemes and gameplans. There aren't a line of 25 players tackling a dummy over and over.

RaidersOftheCellar

10-03-2018, 10:57 AM

This.

Practices are about running through schemes and gameplans. There aren't a line of 25 players tackling a dummy over and over.

I know, but they do run tackling drills during camp. And they probably need to revisit those now.

If something becomes a major issue, it shouldn't be ignored and expected to improve by itself.

O.city

10-03-2018, 11:08 AM

Eleazar

10-03-2018, 11:17 AM

If we are saying that our team hasn't tackled well for years then it's on the coaching to change that. It can't be every guy coming in here sucks.

How does one get drafted into the NFL without knowing how to tackle?

Is this a question of the players not knowing what to do, or not doing it?

Should Sutton be held responsible for every time one of our guys chest-bumps a runner instead of wrapping him up, or at some point is the player responsible for not doing his job?

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 11:18 AM

Then why have tackling drills?

Sure, it'd be nice to just cut half the defense and replace them with better tacklers and superior all-around players. Since that's not an option, they'd better be devoting time to tackling form.

Tackling could be the one issue preventing the Chiefs from being a SB favorite right now. It also shouldn't be that damn hard to improve. It's not like asking a QB to grow another arm.

They don't do tackling drills during the season. At all.

In fact, NFL rules limit tackling drills during the offseason too.

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 11:20 AM

How does one get drafted into the NFL without knowing how to tackle?

Is this a question of the players not knowing what to do, or not doing it?

Should Sutton be held responsible for every time one of our guys chest-bumps a runner instead of wrapping him up, or at some point is the player responsible for not doing his job?

How does a WR get drafted when he doesn't know how to catch with his hands? How does a QB get drafted when he's never taken a snap under center?

The NFL drafts players ALL THE TIME based on size, weight, 40-time, and any number of other attributes that, for whatever, reason carry more weight than FOOTBALL.

htismaqe

10-03-2018, 11:21 AM

I know, but they do run tackling drills during camp. And they probably need to revisit those now.

If something becomes a major issue, it shouldn't be ignored and expected to improve by itself.

The players are going to have to improve. The coaches can't teach new habits to guys that have been playing football for half of their natural-born lives...