*** Official 2018-2019 Royals Offseason Repository ***

[Coach]

As the season comes to a close after an awful season, there is a possibility of some hope since the team played better in late August to the end of the season.

Here are all the important dates you need to know for the 2018-19 MLB offseason. Some of them do involve the Royals, such as:

Oct. 29: As of 9 a.m. ET on Monday, all eligible players are free agents (Escobar - good riddance).

Oct. 31: Most contract option decisions are due on this date (Hammel should be declined, resulting $2 million buyout and Peralta should be accepted, resulting $3 million increase to the payroll, and could be future flip for additional minor leaguers if he performs well).

10/30/2018 - Hammel's option has been declined. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057357361126559744)

10/31/2018 - Peralta apparently received new 1 year contract with 2020 option. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057726885902385153) Contract Details. (https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/10/31/18048980/royals-re-work-deal-retain-wily-peralta)

10/31/2018 - Nate Karns is a Free Agent. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057729462329073665)

Nov. 2: Deadline for teams to tender their eligible FA the qualifying offer.

11/02/2018 - Brandon Maurer elects to FA & Orlando & Torres outrighted to Omaha, will be minor league FA's. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1058415383542226949)

11/02/2018 - Corresponding moves is Cuthburt, Hahn, & Soler reinstated. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1058415528342155265)
Nov. 3: Free agency begins.

Nov. 4: Gold Glove winners announced (Gordon & Perez).

11/04/2018 - Salvy wins his fifth Gold Glove. (https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1059277048756293633)

11/04/2018 - Gordon wins his sixth Gold Glove.
(https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1059271388509466624)
Nov. 6-8: General manager meetings in Carlsbad, California.

Nov. 12: Deadline for free agents to accept or reject the qualifying offer.

Nov. 14-15: Owners meetings in Atlanta (possible future CBA discussions).

Nov. 20: Deadline for teams to add eligible minor leaguers to the 40-man roster to protect them from the Rule 5 Draft.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Royals announced they&#39;ve added RHPs Arnaldo Hernandez, Josh Staumont and Scott Blewett to the 40-man roster, protecting them from next month&#39;s Rule 5 draft. Blewett appeared to take a big step in the Arizona Fall League. The 40-man roster is full right now.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1064972544397127681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Nov. 26-29: MLB Players Association executive board meeting in Dallas (possible future CBA discussions).

Nov. 30: Non-tender deadline.

Dec. 9-13: Winter Meetings in Las Vegas. This is typically when all offseason hell breaks loose.

Dec. 13: Rule 5 Draft (could see the Royals taking a stab here).

Jan. 11: Deadline for teams and arbitration-eligible players to submit 2019 salary figures (I believe KC has some arb-eligible players).

Feb. 1-20: Arbitration hearings. You win some, you lose some.

Mid-Feb. : SPRING TRAINING!

As usual, let's have a good off-season discussion on ways that the Royals can/should/would do to improve. I will try to update the OP as the off-season goes along. And Duncan, you're more than welcome to provide us some information that I can add onto the OP. Just let me know.

To see the 2018 Royals thread, go here (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=314771).

[cabletech94]

FIRST!!!!

[suzzer99]

Fiord!

[ChiefsCountry]

I wonder what relievers the Royals are going after this year.

[Jerok]

In for year 2 of the rebuild.

[BigCatDaddy]

I doubt we see much action.

[Chiefspants]

Woot woot! Fully behind you, Coach!

[dallaschiefsfan]

Rule 5 - reliever candidates
FA - if we're active at all...reliever candidates
25 man roster additions...reliever candidates

Ride with what we have for everything else unless we get the kind of value that can be flipped at the deadline for additional re-stocking.

[Al Bundy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have declined our mutual option with RHP Jason Hammel for 2019 making him a free agent.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057357361126559744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[DeepSouth]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have declined our mutual option with RHP Jason Hammel for 2019 making him a free agent.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057357361126559744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Yeah !!!

[Titty Meat]

Royals will have a 2003 run this year

[Shogun]

Just marking my territory on the 1st page

[ChiTown]

IN!

[big nasty kcnut]

In it to win it!

[PHOG]

In....!

[AndChiefs]

And in.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

In for 2019 and in for a playoff run . . . . . . . .
















In 2022.

[Kidd Lex]

Where’s Duncan?! Go Royals!!!

[Chiefspants]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have declined our mutual option with RHP Jason Hammel for 2019 making him a free agent.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057357361126559744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Thank you for 2014!!!

[TLO]

Here I am!

[SAUTO]

Helluuuuuuurrrrrrr

[Deberg_1990]

Bold prediction:

67-95

[lewdog]

I'll try to watch more this coming year.

I am sorry everyone.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Alex Gordon wins Fielding Bible award.

http://www.fieldingbible.com/


Gold Glove soon to follow . . . . .

[Canofbier]

Just marking my territory on the 1st page

2nd page, shit!

[big nasty kcnut]

Royals 90 wins bank on it.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

In it to win it!



Sometime this next decade.

[gblowfish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have declined our mutual option with RHP Jason Hammel for 2019 making him a free agent.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057357361126559744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
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THANK YOU JESUS!

God I hate this guy. He looks like a six foot tall garden gnome. Good Riddance.

[Al Bundy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In corresponding roster moves, Jerry Vasto has been claimed by the Cubs and Nate Karns has been sent outright to Omaha. Karns will elect free agency in lieu of accepting the assignment.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057729462329073665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[RealSNR]

Karns sure was a great trade.

Fuck that guy.

[Coach]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In corresponding roster moves, Jerry Vasto has been claimed by the Cubs and Nate Karns has been sent outright to Omaha. Karns will elect free agency in lieu of accepting the assignment.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1057729462329073665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
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So I assume that option was either torn up or picked up/adjusted due to this new contract.....?

Edited: Found what I'm looking for. https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/10/31/18048980/royals-re-work-deal-retain-wily-peralta

[ROYC75]

I'll wait until ST is done before making any win/lost projections.

Go front office and Go Royals!

[WhawhaWhat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brandon Maurer, Ramon Torres, Paulo Orlando taken off the roster. <a href="https://t.co/RpVovCeuTk">https://t.co/RpVovCeuTk</a></p>&mdash; Royals Review (@royalsreview) <a href="https://twitter.com/royalsreview/status/1058415433362083840?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="tl" dir="ltr">Worst ERA, franchise history (min. 50 innings)<br>Brandon Maurer 7.89<br>Jonathan Sanchez 7.76<br>Miguel Batista 7.74<br>Sidney Ponson 7.36<br>Yasuhiko Yabuta 7.14</p>&mdash; Royals Review (@royalsreview) <a href="https://twitter.com/royalsreview/status/1058416437084217344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Final results of Royals/Padres trade<br><br>Royals got<br><br>Cahill: 8.22 ERA, 10.24 FIP in 23 IP<br><br>Maurer: 7.89 ERA, 6.08 FIP in 51 IP<br><br>Buchter: 2.67 ERA, 4.49 FIP in 27 IP<br><br>Padres got<br><br>Strahm: 2.05 ERA, 3.36 FIP in 61 IP, five more years control <br><br>Ruiz: 49 SB, 12 HR in Low-A, still only 19</p>&mdash; Patrick Brennan (@paintingcorner) <a href="https://twitter.com/paintingcorner/status/1058418815745380352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[big nasty kcnut]

damn it paulo was good!

[cabletech94]

Losing Buchter is worth at least 6 maybe 7 wins right there. That’s the guy you wanna say “fuck that guy”. Fuck him all the way to hell!!

[cabletech94]

damn it paulo was good!

Rest In Peace sweet prince. You will always be Paulo homo in my book. Thanks Rex hudler.

[kstater]

I'm kind of surprised the Indians aren't putting QO for Brantley

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[duncan_idaho]

Indians don’t have a lot of payroll flexibility and didn’t issue any qualifying offers. Brantley, Allen, and Miller are probably all gone.

Their window is probably closed.

I’m glad the Maurer insanity is finally over.

That trade made sense at the time it was made and was universally reviewed well. Hindsight 20/20 on it, obviously.

But trading Buchter to facilitate dumping some salary made it worse.

At the time of the deal, you could at least look at the deal and say you’re getting similar control over Buchter, who you could expect to be a good reliever, too.

The salary dump-related deals of Soria, Buchter, and Alexander are just awful, like most deals where you move valuable assets just to save money.

The White Sox got a former first round pick for Soria (who pitched well in AA Biloxi after the deal).

Buchter and Alexander could have been moved, too.

Probably the worst misfires of Moore’s career, other than the Kennedy contract. And obviously we’re at the time of the deals, too.

[Chiefspants]

Indians don’t have a lot of payroll flexibility and didn’t issue any qualifying offers. Brantley, Allen, and Miller are probably all gone.

Their window is probably closed.

I’m glad the Maurer insanity is finally over.

That trade made sense at the time it was made and was universally reviewed well. Hindsight 20/20 on it, obviously.

But trading Buchter to facilitate dumping some salary made it worse.

At the time of the deal, you could at least look at the deal and say you’re getting similar control over Buchter, who you could expect to be a good reliever, too.

The salary dump-related deals of Soria, Buchter, and Alexander are just awful, like most deals where you move valuable assets just to save money.

The White Sox got a former first round pick for Soria (who pitched well in AA Biloxi after the deal).

Buchter and Alexander could have been moved, too.

Probably the worst misfires of Moore’s career, other than the Kennedy contract. And obviously we’re at the time of the deals, too.

The salary dumping deals really illustrated how expensive the "all-in" pushes in 2016 and 2017 were for the Royals.

No regrets.

[tk13]

#6

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rawlings?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Rawlings</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoldGlove?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoldGlove</a> Award WINNER – AL LF – <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Royals</a> Alex Gordon <a href="https://t.co/8Eni9Y3iWD">pic.twitter.com/8Eni9Y3iWD</a></p>&mdash; Rawlings Sports (@RawlingsSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/RawlingsSports/status/1059271165104001024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[tk13]

And literally just as I posted that they announced that Salvy won #5. Beat Martin Maldonado, who beat him last year.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Catchers with 5 Gold Glove Awards – Ivan Rodriguez 13, Johnny Bench 10, Yadier Molina 9, Bob Boone 7, Jim Sundberg 6, Bill Freehan 5, Salvador Pérez 5</p>&mdash; Mark Simon (@MarkASimonSays) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkASimonSays/status/1059276789137244160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[WhawhaWhat]

Thought Cain might get one now in the NL but I guess I was wrong.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Happy for Salvy and Gordo.

It’s a freaking crime that Cain has still not won one . . . . .

[Chiefspants]

I'm unreasonably PISSED about Cain not getting the gold.

[Prison Bitch]

Steamer proj just released. Says we are the identical team as last year: 12 wins for position players, 5 for pitchers (0 coming from the pen), and 65.7 wins. (You cannot simply add war to get win totals, but this is close)

[WhawhaWhat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mike Matheny is a candidate for advisory role with the royals. <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dgoold</a> 1st mentioned</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1059561636082536448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[Sure-Oz]

Mike Matheny is a candidate for advisory role with the royals. @dgoold 1st mentioned— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 5, 2018
Advise them on what exactly?

[Discuss Thrower]

Advise them on what exactly?

Bible Study.

[Sure-Oz]

Bible Study.lol. This guy will take over for Yost...:/

[Sure-Oz]

@JonHeyman: Royals goals: 1. Improve bullpen 2. Rebuild 3. Cut payroll #GMmeetings

[Discuss Thrower]

lol. This guy will take over for Yost...:/

Start collecting for the banner now.

SaveOurRoyals.COM

[Chiefspants]

Sources are connecting the Padres to the Machado sweepstakes.

You have to wonder how Hos would handle that in the clubhouse.

[Prison Bitch]

Sources are connecting the Padres to the Machado sweepstakes.

You have to wonder how Hos would handle that in the clubhouse.

Oh man they'll have two monster contracts underperforming

[Great Expectations]

If Mike Matheny is hired I and many other Royals fans will turn on Dayton. I give him a big leash with the back to back WS appearances and one championship, but this would shorten it drastically.

[Coach]

Owners meetings is occurring at the moment. Some news.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25285813/baseball-owners-extend-rob-manfred-contract

The owners put off any decision Thursday on changes that might speed games. Manfred said they prefer to reach a consensus with the players' union.

Manfred took over as commissioner from Bud Selig in 2015. His new deal runs through the 2024 regular season.

[OKchiefs]

I'm finding it hard to be very excited for this year. I hope Lopez shows enough to force Moore's hand and make Merrifield expendable. Beyond that I'm looking for Mondesi to walk more and the low minors players to show another year of progress, and hopefully better plate discipline. The 2019 draft and #2 pick should be interesting. Should we be expecting another competitive balance pick?

[nychief]

If Mike Matheny is hired I and many other Royals fans will turn on Dayton. I give him a big leash with the back to back WS appearances and one championship, but this would shorten it drastically.

Why the Matheny hate? Just curious, other than the obvious Cards hate... I’m a little at a loss. Can you fill me in? It reminds me of when we brought Ned in with Hillman as manager.

[Chiefspants]

Why the Matheny hate? Just curious, other than the obvious Cards hate... I’m a little at a loss. Can you fill me in? It reminds me of when we brought Ned in with Hillman as manager.

If you're looking for someone who makes Ned look like a genius for bullpen management, Matheny is your guy.

If you want someone to play favorites in the clubhouse based off of their devotion to the club bible study, Matheny is also your man.

Yes, people were skeptical when Ned came aboard. But the word was that Ned's players genuinely loved him.

Matheny was not on speaking terms with multiple players in his clubhouse last year, and the team was immediately boosted by his firing (and Pham soared the moment he was traded away). Unlike Ned being too stubborn with his bullpen, Matheny is also known to run his pitchers into the ground (aka, pitch bullpen guys 3-4 days in a row, which Ned always tries to avoid).

I want nothing to do with Matheny - he makes Jason Kendall seem like a slam dunk addition.

[duncan_idaho]

Why the Matheny hate? Just curious, other than the obvious Cards hate... I’m a little at a loss. Can you fill me in? It reminds me of when we brought Ned in with Hillman as manager.


Because he’s a terrible tactician. Measurably one of the worst.

Because he’s horrible with young players.

Because he plays favorites with veteran players who happen to attend his bible study group.

He’s pretty much the worst kind of guy to bring in to manage a young team.

[nychief]

Because he’s a terrible tactician. Measurably one of the worst.

Because he’s horrible with young players.

Because he plays favorites with veteran players who happen to attend his bible study group.

He’s pretty much the worst kind of guy to bring in to manage a young team.

good to know. I never paid any attention to his managing with the cards, he was just a guy.

[Prison Bitch]

People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


That exact line was used against DM for years. Then he won the WS. And suddenly it disappeared.

[Mecca]

People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


That exact line was used against DM for years. Then he won the WS. And suddenly it disappeared.

You know a ton of people still think Moore is a dipshit for some of his views right, like the porn thing is fucking stupid.

But hey Moore and Matheny are probably 2 peas in a pod on a personal level, Jesus Freaks unite.

[Chiefspants]

People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


That exact line was used against DM for years. Then he won the WS. And suddenly it disappeared.

How bout dem other charges?

[Mecca]

It's pretty obvious Matheny is a terrible manager.

[BWillie]

Because he’s a terrible tactician. Measurably one of the worst.

Because he’s horrible with young players.

Because he plays favorites with veteran players who happen to attend his bible study group.

He’s pretty much the worst kind of guy to bring in to manage a young team.

Oh. My. God. There may be someone out there worst than Ned Yost. Yost sucks as a tactician, but at least Ned is good at team building.

[BWillie]

People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


That exact line was used against DM for years. Then he won the WS. And suddenly it disappeared.

Are you tryin' ta say that Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

[Prison Bitch]

How bout dem other charges?

I don't know a thing about Matheny so I'll stipulate everything you and Duncan said.


But not the "bible study" thing. Not without evidence.

[jimidollar]

Are you tryin' ta say that Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Jobu definitely can!

[Chiefspants]

I don't know a thing about Matheny so I'll stipulate everything you and Duncan said.


But not the "bible study" thing. Not without evidence.

Totally fair. To my knowledge the Cardinals posters were on a consensus about that so I believed them - maybe one of them (DJ?) can comment more.

[duncan_idaho]

People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


That exact line was used against DM for years. Then he won the WS. And suddenly it disappeared.


What evidence do you want? It’s a rumor I’ve heard a few different places on the internet.

Do you want a Cardinals beat writer expounding on it? That doesn’t exist. No reporter is going to write about it.

It’s pretty clear he played favorites for veteran players, continuing to run them out through extreme struggles at the expense of PT for bright young talent (see Oscar Taveras and Allen Craig for one example). Wong and Grichuk also have lost PT to uninspiring veterans and were given little rope.

I didn’t connect that to his bible study group until reading rumors about that on forums I visit. Don’t remember if DJ and this crew have talked about it, but I’ve seen it in other places. Maybe he just likes shitty veterans... but its awfully convenient that guys known to attend his study group get huge amounts of leeway from him on performance.

It’s a rumor and I’ll fully admit that.

Whatever the reason, his track record with veterans and young players is atrocious and not the type of leadership KC will need moving forward.

[Prison Bitch]

Then it's settled. It's an unsubstantiated, and almost assuredly false, innuendo.


It's pretty un-American to go after a man's character. I'm guessing his job tactics have a lot of room to criticize, but there isn't one among us who'd like our character being attacked. Esp without proof.

[RealSNR]

Then it's settled. It's an unsubstantiated, and almost assuredly false, innuendo.


It's pretty un-American to go after a man's character. I'm guessing his job tactics have a lot of room to criticize, but there isn't one among us who'd like our character being attacked. Esp without proof.

I agree. The next time Matheny signs onto Chiefs Planet and sees these attacks against him, he's going to be pretty pissed!

[Prison Bitch]

I agree. The next time Matheny signs onto Chiefs Planet and sees these attacks against him, he's going to be pretty pissed!

Good comeback. Except I'm not talking to Matheny. I'm talking to Duncan and Pants. Now scram.

[WhawhaWhat]

It's pretty un-American to go after a man's character.

It's presidential these days.

[duncan_idaho]

Then it's settled. It's an unsubstantiated, and almost assuredly false, innuendo.


It's pretty un-American to go after a man's character. I'm guessing his job tactics have a lot of room to criticize, but there isn't one among us who'd like our character being attacked. Esp without proof.


It’s not attacking his character to point out fact A:

Matheny hosted a bible study group with his players

Fact b:
Matheny was overly loyal to many of his veterans, playing them despite horrible performance levels, usually at the expense of talented young players

Fact c:
Those vets were know to be members of the Bible study group.

Now, maybe it’s just a coincidence. Draw what conclusions you want from that cluster.

[Prison Bitch]

It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"

[Al Bundy]

It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"

So the record after he was rightly fired is meaningless?

[duncan_idaho]

It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"


Every manager who makes bad strategic decisions is not trying to throw games. That’s a big leap from just making dumb choices out of misplaced loyalty.

Go check the Cards thread. General consensus there is that Matheny was definitely overly loyal to underperforming players who were part of his bible study club.

I can’t PROVE it. I’m not Mike Matheny. I’m not one of the players in the clubhouse. I don’t cover the team.

But I don’t need to prove it. Just sharing conjecture.

The reason he was too loyal to underperforming players doesn’t matter, anyway. Just that he was.

[Prison Bitch]

So the record after he was rightly fired is meaningless?

Derp.

No, the 12-15 record in Sept isn't meaningless. The Cards weren't a playoff contender with or without Matheny. But here's the good news: now they have to win the division to justify his firing. No more Bible Study = playoffs.


If not, then we will find out Bible Study wasn't the problem.

[Prison Bitch]

Go check the Cards thread. General consensus there is that Matheny was definitely overly loyal to underperforming players who were part of his bible study club.

But I didn't ask you what retards on a chat board once heard. Simply what evidence there was for it. And "Everyone knows that...." or "It is common knowledge" do not qualify.

I can’t PROVE it. I’m not Mike Matheny. I’m not one of the players in the clubhouse.

That's really all there is to this nonstory: the alleged perp hasn't even been accused, nor has he even been asked about it.


I don’t cover the team.

There's no evidence on that front either. Deez mentioned some writer named "Strauss". I googled Strauss-Matheny and the first story that pops up? "Matheny Should Win Manager of the Year" (2015). Conclusion: his Bible Studies were working awesome back then.



But I don’t need to prove it. Just sharing conjecture.

You're right. I have higher standards for you and Pants than the BFIBs.


The reason he was too loyal to underperforming players doesn’t matter, anyway. Just that he was.

You don't believe that. Discriminating in race or religion is something we have Fed laws against. People don't like it. And we should be judicious accusing people of it too.

[Chiefspants]

I haven't seen PB take a contrarian position like this in a long time.

It makes me long for 2013-2014. Good times.

[tk13]

I don't know about bible studies but is there any question Matheny lost the clubhouse? I think that's pretty widely accepted. How many times have the Cardinals sacked a manager midseason? Dude had multiple playoff appearances and a winning record this year and they still fired him. That's the most un-Cardinals like move you could think of. And the only thing he said in response to the buzz around the clubhouse was that the game had gotten too soft.

[Coach]

In other news...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals will have the first pick in Round B of the competitive balance lottery in the 2019 draft (had Round A last year). Right now that pick is set for 71st overall but will move higher/lower based on free agent signings up until possibly draft day.</p>&mdash; Shaun Newkirk (@Shauncore) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shauncore/status/1064770720813801472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Coach]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Royals announced they&#39;ve added RHPs Arnaldo Hernandez, Josh Staumont and Scott Blewett to the 40-man roster, protecting them from next month&#39;s Rule 5 draft. Blewett appeared to take a big step in the Arizona Fall League. The 40-man roster is full right now.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1064972544397127681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Al Bundy]

Looks like PB should have a look in the Cardinals thread.

[Chiefspants]

Looks like PB should have a look in the Cardinals thread.

Saw that.

[dlphg9]

Looks like PB should have a look in the Cardinals thread.

Wonder if he has looked yet? He is just going to argue that there aren't any quotes from anyone. He's going to have to hear it come straight from Mathenys mouth, otherwise it's just false accusations.

[DJ's left nut]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[breath]

.........HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHANAHANAHA!

[BigRedChief]

Don’t blame us. We warned ya. Yelled it from the rooftops. Prepare for some bible study favorites, and shitty vets playing over young players. And burning out your young arms and bullpen mismanagement.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have hired Mike Matheny as a Special Advisor for Player Development.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1066044085989974018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Pitt Gorilla]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[breath]

.........HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHANAHANAHA!
****

[BigRedChief]

I don't know about bible studies but is there any question Matheny lost the clubhouse? I think that's pretty widely accepted. How many times have the Cardinals sacked a manager midseason? Dude had multiple playoff appearances and a winning record this year and they still fired him. That's the most un-Cardinals like move you could think of. And the only thing he said in response to the buzz around the clubhouse was that the game had gotten too soft.

Why are you guys questioning the Bible study stories? It wasn’t a secret. Players talked about it openly to the press. They held meetings in the clubhouse. There is no debate. It happened and was still happening when he was fired. Just google it for crissakes.

[ROYC75]

:doh!:

Don’t blame us. We warned ya. Yelled it from the rooftops. Prepare for some bible study favorites, and shitty vets playing over young players. And burning out your young arms and bullpen mismanagement.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have hired Mike Matheny as a Special Advisor for Player Development.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1066044085989974018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Chiefspants]

Why are you guys questioning the Bible study stories? It wasn’t a secret. Players talked about it openly to the press. They held meetings in the clubhouse. There is no debate. It happened and was still happening when he was fired. Just google it for crissakes.

To be fair, only one person has been questioning the bible study stories.

[dlphg9]

To be fair, only one person has been questioning the bible study stories.

And that person hasn't been seen around here in awhile.

[duncan_idaho]

I’ve been one of the strongest Moore defenders here and elsewhere.

That’s over the second that ignoramus Matheny is named manager, which I fully expect.

Teams in the middle of a rebuild, with a model that will depend on young players being grown and established at the major leagues, have no business hiring a guy with Matheny’s track record.

[BigRedChief]

Teams in the middle of a rebuild, with a model that will depend on young players being grown and established at the major leagues, have no business hiring a guy with Matheny’s track record.He is the exact opposite of developing young players. He doesn’t just not develop players, he retards their development by playing vets and not even talking regurally with the young players on their plYing status. You couldn’t possibly hire someone worse.

[jd1020]

Dont listen to these naysayers. Matheny did a great job with the Cardinals.

[Coach]

Yeesh....

I'm not a big fan of this move, at all.

[C3HIEF3S]

Dont listen to these naysayers. Matheny did a great job with the Cardinals.

No he fucking did not.

[ChiTown]

This is fucking awful. Fuck you, Moore!

[jd1020]

No he ****ing did not.

I beg to differ.

[Coach]

I beg to differ.

Cite/explain your evidence then.

[jd1020]

Cite/explain your evidence then.

Seasons 2015 and beyond.

[Chris Meck]

jesus christ. Oh, wait...

[WhawhaWhat]

Next up is Faith and Family Night every weekend and Bible readings after the third inning.

[Coach]

Seasons 2015 and beyond.

Not enough sufficient evidence.

Let me rephrase. Cite/source your evidence by using more than a paragraph.

[BigRedChief]

Not enough sufficient evidence.

Let me rephrase. Cite/source your evidence by using more than a paragraph.He’s a Cubs fan, he’s trolling you guys. :facepalm:

[jd1020]

Not enough sufficient evidence.

I guess that all depends on how you look at it.

Let me rephrase. Cite/source your evidence by using more than a paragraph.

The results speak for themselves and it's all great.

If you need further explanation ask DJ or BRC.

[jd1020]

He’s a Cubs fan, he’s trolling you guys. :facepalm:

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/sT62ObVC4Q2m4" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-sT62ObVC4Q2m4">via GIPHY</a></p>

[Frazod]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Royals announced they&#39;ve added RHPs Arnaldo Hernandez, Josh Staumont and Scott Blewett to the 40-man roster, protecting them from next month&#39;s Rule 5 draft. Blewett appeared to take a big step in the Arizona Fall League. The 40-man roster is full right now.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1064972544397127681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The fuck? How.... why.... :shake:

How much do you have to suck at your job before you don't get hired again?

[lewdog]

Great. Moore hires a guy seemingly because of his devote faith in God and nothing more.

:facepalm:

[Mecca]

Matheny is going to be Moore's watch dog to see if anyone is watching porn.

[tk13]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> have Mike Moustakas on radar. The difference this year: no draft choice attachment. Rival Brewers, Moose’s most recent team, among others with possible interest.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1067240800017371136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ChiefsCountry]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> have Mike Moustakas on radar. The difference this year: no draft choice attachment. Rival Brewers, Moose’s most recent team, among others with possible interest.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1067240800017371136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Makes sense for both. Cardinals need a third base and left handed bat. Moose is a good fit for Busch Stadium. Lefties do decent there.

[BigCatDaddy]

Take this shit to the Cards thread.

[DJ's left nut]

Take this shit to the Cards thread.

............AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

{COUGH}{HACK}{WHEEZ}

.............HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[KChiefs1]

Take this shit to the Cards thread.


The Royals hired Matheny so it is a Cardinals thread.

I like Moore but some of his decisions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pablo]

Great. Moore hires a guy seemingly because of his devote faith in God and nothing more.

:facepalm:Religious folks are a cancer.

[BigCatDaddy]

The Royals hired Matheny so it is a Cardinals thread.

I like Moore but some of his decisions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah..if Matheny becomes manager Illl give a shit then. If Ned Yost can go to back to back WS I guess anyone can though. The guy was "Matheny" here until that 2.5 year lights out run.

[Prison Bitch]

Religious folks are a cancer.

#tolerance

#strongerTogether

#imWithHer

[WhawhaWhat]

#tolerance

#strongerTogether

#imWithHer

Cancer should never be tolerated.

[BigRedChief]

Religious folks are a cancer.Take this shit to DC. ROFL

Speaking of cancer, hire Matheny as your manager and watch your next window die of an incompetent managerial cancer.

[Sure-Oz]

@Royals: We have claimed RHP Connor Greene off of outright waivers from the Cardinals. In a corresponding move, we have designated RHP Burch Smith for assignment.

[suzzer99]

Take this shit to DC. ROFL

Speaking of cancer, hire Matheny as your manager and watch your next window die of an incompetent managerial cancer.

Speaking of, Zobie's parent's sound like kinda dicks. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article41120313.html

Tom Zobrist has been pastor of the Liberty Bible Church in Eureka since 1988, nurturing those to whom he ministers and the operation from a storefront location to its own site to a soon-to-be shimmering expansion project now that will include 500-seat capacity.

Their son’s direction wasn’t going to change, either, when the Zobrists got a call suggesting Ben attend a tryout camp in nearby Brimfield.

It would cost $50, after all.

“Fifty dollars was a lot of money,” Cindi said. “It still is.”

Never mind that Ben was intrigued, if only for the chance to spend more time playing with his friends.

“ ‘I’m not paying for that,’ ” said his father, who grew up a Cardinals fan.

But he was OK with Ben using $50 of birthday money he’d gotten from his grandparents.

“ ‘Go ahead; it’s your money,’ ” Tom Zobrist remembered saying, smiling at the recollection it would be money misspent.

Cindi remembers crying about it over lunch with him at a local Cracker Barrel, fretting that doing so would be stepping away from God’s plan and fearing “other influences” at a larger school.

But Tom told him that at age 19, he needed to decide for himself and asked what he thought God wanted for him.

“ ‘Well, I feel like I’m not done with baseball yet,’ ” he remembered Ben saying. “ ‘But I’m willing to do what you want me to do.’ ”

[seaofred]

Did anyone hear the interview with Moose this morning? He was on with Bob F. I just can't stand to listen to that guy. Did he say anything of note?

[lewdog]

#tolerance

#strongerTogether

#imWithHer

Nothing says awesome like given special treatment to believers over non-believers when running a ball club.

Matheny is a turd sandwich and Moore is lost.

[Fish]

Bubba officially a free agent...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have non-tendered RHP Jason Adam, 1B Samir Dueñez, RHP Andres Machado and OF Bubba Starling ahead of tonight’s deadline. All four players become free agents.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1068637417354289152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[BigRedChief]

Nothing says awesome like given special treatment to believers over non-believers when running a ball club.

Matheny is a turd sandwich and Moore is lost.whatever you guys have to do, fly a banner, make thousands of calls etc. do it to avoid Matheny being your new manager.

[cabletech94]

Bubba officially a free agent...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have non-tendered RHP Jason Adam, 1B Samir Dueñez, RHP Andres Machado and OF Bubba Starling ahead of tonight’s deadline. All four players become free agents.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1068637417354289152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

damn. the fanboy in me always wanted to see bubba patrolling the outfield.

sweet dreams, young prince. im not even going to look up who we could have had instead of you........

[duncan_idaho]

The Mariners are having a full-on fire sale and I don’t get it.

At least the returns they’re settling on.

They did pretty well in the swap with the Mets... but this Segura trade rumor doesn’t make sense to me.

Segura is 28 and a top 10 SS, with four affordable years left ... and they’re moving him for J.P. Crawford and taking on the last year of Carlis Santana to boot?

Can’t tell if they’re just off the reservation or what, but it doesn’t probably help the Merrifield trade return. He and Segura are similar offensive players, though Segura is much more expensive.

[Chiefspants]

The Mariners are having a full-on fire sale and I don’t get it.

At least the returns they’re settling on.

They did pretty well in the swap with the Mets... but this Segura trade rumor doesn’t make sense to me.

Segura is 28 and a top 10 SS, with four affordable years left ... and they’re moving him for J.P. Crawford and taking on the last year of Carlis Santana to boot?

Can’t tell if they’re just off the reservation or what, but it doesn’t probably help the Merrifield trade return. He and Segura are similar offensive players, though Segura is much more expensive.

Seems like an owner forced fire-sale.

But at least when it comes to Segura, the word is from M's fans is that he's not on speaking terms with half of his locker room after that crazy, all-out brawl he had with Dee Gordon in the locker room this September. Feels like they're looking for a... "Marcus Peters" esque return to get him out.

It also might be telling that this will now be his fourth organization - he's starting to have some of the "weird" movement that Valencia had. Trades and DFA's that would happen in spite of solid production.

[OKchiefs]

The Indians traded Yan Gomes to Washington. I'm curious what other trades they'll end up making. I completely agree with their strategy of trading off players and getting the rebuild started before everyone walks and the cupboard is bare. It's how you expedite the rebuild and avoid 5-7 years of building like we're forced to go through.

[Dartgod]

The Indians traded Yan Gomes to Washington. I'm curious what other trades they'll end up making. I completely agree with their strategy of trading off players and getting the rebuild started before everyone walks and the cupboard is bare. It's how you expedite the rebuild and avoid 5-7 years of building like we're forced to go through.

The Indians aren't coming off back-to-back World Series appearances and a WS Title.

I'm not surprised that you don't see the difference here though.

[ChiefsCountry]

The Indians aren't coming off back-to-back World Series appearances and a WS Title.

I'm not surprised that you don't see the difference here though.

kcchiefsus was bitching during the WS runs. He is a complete waste of space.

[OKchiefs]

The Indians aren't coming off back-to-back World Series appearances and a WS Title.

I'm not surprised that you don't see the difference here though.

What difference does that make? When freaking Matheny is our manager next year, you still going to be defending Moore with the same BS? Why is Dayton Moore beyond reproach around here? How long do we have to go before the WS win finally loses its luster, and Moore is finally judged on his performance since then (and performance in the draft even before the WS)?

[duncan_idaho]

The Indians traded Yan Gomes to Washington. I'm curious what other trades they'll end up making. I completely agree with their strategy of trading off players and getting the rebuild started before everyone walks and the cupboard is bare. It's how you expedite the rebuild and avoid 5-7 years of building like we're forced to go through.


They may move one of their front of rotation guys (Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer) but I don’t expect much else.

Gomes was expensive and they didn’t get much back in return at all. I don’t believe either of the prospects received made the Indians top 10 guys.

They’re also not doing a full tear down. They’re trying to selectively sell a few pieces here and there to shed payroll.

That may be to clear some payroll for a Lindor extension or extend their window... but they’re also not making moves that are going to allow them to close this window with a title unless something fluky happens.

So they’ll walk about with 5-6 division titles in a decade, with one WS appearance and no wins.

Wouldn’t trade two WS and a title for that, no matter what the rest of the decade shows.

[duncan_idaho]

What difference does that make? When freaking Matheny is our manager next year, you still going to be defending Moore with the same BS? Why is Dayton Moore beyond reproach around here? How long do we have to go before the WS win finally loses its luster, and Moore is finally judged on his performance since then (and performance in the draft even before the WS)?


He’s not beyond reproach. If/when he predictably elevates Matheny to replace Yost as manager, I don’t think any around here will avoid criticizing him.

In fact, as I’ve stated here in the past few weeks, it will run through the rest of the leash I’m allowing.

I’m willing to be patient and give some leeway and apply some context and understanding... but there is none that explains elevating Matheny.

[Prison Bitch]

He will throw games by playing bible study guys!


(Fan stupidity. Hitting an all time low)

[Chiefspants]

He will throw games by playing bible study guys!


(Fan stupidity. Hitting an all time low)

Dude you got your ass kicked on this by Cards fans and then hid from this thread for a while. Probably best to let this one go.

[Prison Bitch]

Dude you got your ass kicked on this by Cards fans and then hid from this thread for a while. Probably best to let this one go.

Hey fvckface - show me exactly where I got "my ass kicked by Cards fans".


I just went thru this whole thread and didn't see jack shit. Put up or shut the f---up.

[duncan_idaho]

He will throw games by playing bible study guys!


(Fan stupidity. Hitting an all time low)


It doesn’t matter what his reasons were for overvaluing crappy veterans and giving them tremendous leeway and playing time at the expense of talented young players. He did it consistently.

Whatever the reason for that was, it also doesn’t change the fact Matheny was 1) the least effective manager at utilizing his bullpen; 2) abusive of his best bullpen arms to the point of overworking and ruining multiple guys

It doesn’t roll back that he was not liked by his players and had trouble connecting with them. That he had players he went months without communicating with except by text, that he was terrible with young players to the point of letting JAG vets like Bud Norris abuse young players like Hicks.

[Chiefspants]

Hey ****face - show me exactly where I got "my ass kicked by Cards fans".


I just went thru this whole thread and didn't see jack shit. Put up or shut the f---up.

Dude, you can't say my "stupidity is at an all time low" by "voicing rumors that have never been proven", while multiple Cardinal fans have come in and talked about how the Bible Studies were confirmed by multiple beat writers.

I've let this kind of thing slide before. You repeatedly called me a dumb**** for predicting that James Shields would slip to "Guthrie like production" before 2016 and I never really took you to task about it.

Own up like you demanded Duncan do about Kennedy or let it go, man.

[Al Bundy]

Hey fuckface - show me exactly where I got "my ass kicked by Cards fans".


I just went thru this whole thread and didn't see jack shit. Put up or shut the f---up.

Go read the last three pages... it is very clear he played favorites. He held bible studies and those were his guys. Metheny is a bad manager and should be no where near a rebuilding team.

[dlphg9]

Don't know why you guys bother with him. He's not going to admit he's wrong. He will just keep doubling down.

[Prison Bitch]

Go read the last three pages... it is very clear he played favorites. He held bible studies and those were his guys. Metheny is a bad manager and should be no where near a rebuilding team.

Proof. Show me proof. I don't care what the bfibs said. Show me something tangible. Or admit it just doesn't exist.

[Prison Bitch]

Dude, you can't say my "stupidity is at an all time low" by "voicing rumors that have never been proven", while multiple Cardinal fans have come in and talked about how the Bible Studies were confirmed by multiple beat writers.

Who? Who are these beat writers? I'm asking you (or whoever makes the claim) to show me. PD beat writer Derrick Goold specifically states the exact opposite:

If there's peer pressure, it's not readily apparent. If there's favoritism, it's not readily apparent, or it's a perception that doesn't last. If there's an insistence on between "goody-two shoes" ... well, that's just there's not. There's just not.



https://www.stltoday.com/sports/is-a-player-s-faith-an-issue-here/article_22d858a0-bce1-52a0-b63f-f04497a72ed3.html

[jd1020]

Proof. Show me proof. I don't care what the bfibs said. Show me something tangible. Or admit it just doesn't exist.

Googled "mike matheny bible study" and clicked on the first link. It's an interview between Darrin Patrick, former Cardinals Chaplain, and Mike Matheny...

DP | I'll never forget, it was the National League Championship Series in 2013. It was before the game, we're doing our prayer time, like we did before every home playoff game, and I walked in and saw you playing and worshiping.

MM | It might have been the last game against Los Angeles. And you came in and were blown away. You actually took a picture and said, “I want to show my wife what you do to prepare for a game!” I do a lot of praise and worship. And it helps the time go by on the road, but I don't do it a lot at home. But that was special how that group got together before every game. And it started out as a few guys, and ended up with 20-plus guys in this room. We just stopped and gave God a little bit of our time. Let's slow down and realize how cool it is that we are where we are right now and not praying necessarily, “Let's win.” We just prayed that we would go out and do things the way we're supposed to do it.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/cardinals-manager-mike-matheny-on-baseball-manhood-and-faith/

[Prison Bitch]

That isn't in dispute^^^. The charge is that he allowed his faith to influence his roster decisions. And it's bullshit until someone shows proof.

[tk13]

That isn't in dispute^^^. The charge is that he allowed his faith to influence his roster decisions. And it's bullshit until someone shows proof.

You're putting some good DC spin on this, I'll grant you that. But you still have yet to explain if Matheny was so good... why did the Cardinals fire him midseason with a winning record?

You know why... he wrecked that clubhouse. You keep asking for proof. The proof is that one of the most image conscious organizations in the league chucked the guy because he lost the clubhouse.

[jd1020]

That isn't in dispute^^^. The charge is that he allowed his faith to influence his roster decisions. And it's bullshit until someone shows proof.

So even though if a player that was confirmed in the study group was less productive than the guy on the bench that wouldn't be good enough for you? You need someone to link video of Matheny saying that he directly started a player because he prayed with him that day? ROFL

[Prison Bitch]

So even though if a player that was confirmed in the study group was less productive than the guy on the bench that wouldn't be good enough for you? L

Name names.

[jd1020]

Name names.

I'm fairly confident Kolten Wong was in that group and was often in the starting lineup when he was just straight garbage. Specifically in 2016 when he had an OPS+ of 84 and Greg Garcia is sitting on the bench with a 108.

But you'd have to ask a Cardinals fan that's read the book. However, thats not good enough for you so w/e.

[tk13]

Just some light reading:


Mike Matheny lost the clubhouse and now he has lost his job (https://www.sbnation.com/2018/7/15/17572872/st-louis-cardinals-fire-mike-matheny-mlb-all-star-break)


Long Known As a Bad Tactician, Mike Matheny Was Fired for Being a Bad Boss (https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/7/15/17573628/mike-matheny-fired-st-louis-cardinals-manager)

Mike Matheny’s clubhouse sounds like a nightmare (https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-news-analysis-mlb/2018/7/12/17564482/mike-mathenys-clubhouse-sounds-like-a-nightmare-a-hunt-and-peck)


Controversies catch up with Cardinals manager Mike Matheny (https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/ct-spt-cardinals-clubhouse-police-mlb-notes-20180714-story.html)

If Mike Matheny Loses Yadier Molina’s Loyalty, the Manager Is In Danger of Losing the Clubhouse (https://www.101sports.com/2017/07/31/mike-matheny-loses-yadier-molinas-loyalty-manager-danger-losing-clubhouse/)

Hicks harassment was last straw for over-matched Matheny and his underachieving Cardinals (http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/sports_columnists/sports_eye/hicks-harassment-was-last-straw-for-over-matched-matheny-and/article_213c984a-8adc-11e8-ab4c-d721381d52f6.html)

Cardinals Seek Culture Change With Removal Of Manager Matheny (https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2018/07/16/Franchises/Cardinals.aspx)

[Prison Bitch]

Quick Hits: BenFred on STL sports
Aug 21, 2018

Rounding up the hot topics from columnist Ben Frederickson's weekly chat with fans of St. Louis sports. (https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ben-frederickson/quick-hits-benfred-on-stl-sports/collection_ad924ea6-7fa5-5dd0-8b44-bad6f8de9e7f.html)


COMMENTS: I got a sense that Mike Matheny started buying into this whole "leader of men" thing and viewing himself as that instead of just focusing on doing what a big league manager should do: Play the best players. ... He always went out of his way to say he's a Christian. If that's what he believes, fine, but leave it at home. Don't let it intrude on your decisions in the clubhouse. ... Several things are contributing to the Cardinals playing better. The managerial change is one. Matheny would have fought all these call-ups from Memphis, in my opinion. Plus, he lost Yadier Molina, who is the team leader.

BENFRED: If you are going to make the statement that Matheny made decisions based off of his religious views, then you and others in this chat need a lot more than a "sense" of it. That's how this works. Your "sense" of something doesn't make it so. And that's a heavy claim to pin on someone without any real evidence.

[DeepSouth]

why did the Cardinals fire him midseason with a winning record?
.
This is a bad argument. Managers get fired and come back better managers. They learn from there experiences. See Milwaukee Brewers, Ned Yost, 2008 with two weeks left in the season. I believe the Brewers were 83 - 67 at the time of Ned's firing.

[WhawhaWhat]

Quick Hits: BenFred on STL sports
Aug 21, 2018

Rounding up the hot topics from columnist Ben Frederickson's weekly chat with fans of St. Louis sports. (https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ben-frederickson/quick-hits-benfred-on-stl-sports/collection_ad924ea6-7fa5-5dd0-8b44-bad6f8de9e7f.html)


COMMENTS: I got a sense that Mike Matheny started buying into this whole "leader of men" thing and viewing himself as that instead of just focusing on doing what a big league manager should do: Play the best players. ... He always went out of his way to say he's a Christian. If that's what he believes, fine, but leave it at home. Don't let it intrude on your decisions in the clubhouse. ... Several things are contributing to the Cardinals playing better. The managerial change is one. Matheny would have fought all these call-ups from Memphis, in my opinion. Plus, he lost Yadier Molina, who is the team leader.

BENFRED: If you are going to make the statement that Matheny made decisions based off of his religious views, then you and others in this chat need a lot more than a "sense" of it. That's how this works. Your "sense" of something doesn't make it so. And that's a heavy claim to pin on someone without any real evidence.

So he can't confirm?

[Eleazar]

Why is the Royals thread about the Cardinals? :hmmm:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Name names.

Jon Jay, Randy Choate, Pete Kozma come to mind. Also, Descalso and Mark Ellis, who was arguably the worst 2B in team history but kept getting trotted out there for months.

[Chiefspants]

Why is the Royals thread about the Cardinals? :hmmm:

Hiring a person who had notoriously and very publicly lost his locker room (a fact backed up by multiple sources). Tends to do that - especially when you're in the process of rebuilding with young players.

Still waiting for that Cardinal fan to speak his praises! I know a lot of people compare him to Yost, but no one ever said Yost was bad with the players - they just said he was a horrific bullpen manager (and yeah, there was something to that).

[Prison Bitch]

Dude you got your ass kicked on this by Cards fans and then hid from this thread for a while. Probably best to let this one go.

You owe me a retraction for this ^

[Chiefspants]

You owe me a retraction for this ^

Sure. Apologize for calling me a "dumb***", "dumb****" and personally attacking me for months after I predicted James Shields was going to have a Guthrie like regression and you have a deal.

[Prison Bitch]

Sure. Apologize for calling me a "dumb***", "dumb****"

No. It was in response to you lying about me, unprovoked.


and personally attacking me for months after I predicted James Shields was going to have a Guthrie like regression and you have a deal.

Sure. Post the link, and if I made an incorrect analysis of course I'll own it. Who wouldn't?

[Chiefspants]

No. It was in response to you lying about me, unprovoked.




Sure. Post the link, and if I made an incorrect analysis of course I'll own it. Who wouldn't?

It wasn’t unprovoked. You said my fan stupidity hit an all time low.

If I have the time i’ll dig up the 2016 Repo and happily post examples. But will it matter if I do? In the last page of this thread, you’ve ignored the dozens of articles that spoke to how Matheny lost the locker room and ignored the analysis of people who closely followed him for over five years.

I do apologize if what I said was upsetting. I do hold your analysis in high esteem. You’ve been dead on about a lot of your takes from the time you registered here. However, if me retracting is so important to you - all you have to do is apologize for attacking me personally in 2016. It’s that easy.

[Prison Bitch]

The "stupidity" comment wasn't leveled at you at all. But, I hold yiuband Duncan to a higher standard here. That's why I'm still on this, I wouldn't if it was say Lewdog or just the BFIBs acting stupidly. I'm genuinely surprised you and Duncan didn't see this for what it was: anti-religious bigotry masquerading as "analysis".



Make no mistake tho: the Cards beat writer absolutely saw it.

[duncan_idaho]

The "stupidity" comment wasn't leveled at you at all. But, I hold yiuband Duncan to a higher standard here. That's why I'm still on this, I wouldn't if it was say Lewdog or just the BFIBs acting stupidly. I'm genuinely surprised you and Duncan didn't see this for what it was: anti-religious bigotry masquerading as "analysis".



Make no mistake tho: the Cards beat writer absolutely saw it.


Ben Frederickson is not a beat writer (columnist) and was not in St. Louis for the first five years or so of Matheny’s time as manager.

I wouldn’t expect him to have the insight into why Allen Craig and Pete Kozma and etc. were getting playing time their performance didn’t warrant, at the expense of young players or better alternatives.

Joe Strauss, Bernie Miklasz, Derrick Goold... They were there. Believe the thought the Bible study group membership was influencing playing time decisions originated from comments from them. I never saw one of those directly because I don’t follow the Cardinals that closely, but people who did saw them.

Regardless, the fact remains that in addition to his worst-in-MLB bullpen management, Matheny had trouble with young player development, he had trouble connecting with all of his clubhouse, he lost big parts of his clubhouse, and he consistently played underperforming veterans for far too long.

He’s a terrible option for a rebuilding club that is planning to go young, young, young...

Remember the days of Ross Gload getting tons of PT over younger options? That’s the type of stuff Matheny is infamous for. No thank you.

[Mecca]

Bitch is defending Matheny...that's a hell of a hill to die on.

[Prison Bitch]

Ben Frederickson is not a beat writer (columnist) and was not in St. Louis for the first five years or so of Matheny’s time as manager.

I wouldn’t expect him to have the insight into why Allen Craig and Pete Kozma and etc. were getting playing time their performance didn’t warrant, at the expense of young players or better alternatives.

Joe Strauss, Bernie Miklasz, Derrick Goold... They were there. Believe the thought the Bible study group membership was influencing playing time decisions originated from comments from them. I never saw one of those directly because I don’t follow the Cardinals that closely, but people who did saw them.

Regardless, the fact remains that in addition to his worst-in-MLB bullpen management, Matheny had trouble with young player development, he had trouble connecting with all of his clubhouse, he lost big parts of his clubhouse, and he consistently played underperforming veterans for far too long.

He’s a terrible option for a rebuilding club that is planning to go young, young, young...

Remember the days of Ross Gload getting tons of PT over younger options? That’s the type of stuff Matheny is infamous for. No thank you.


Derrick Goold and Ben Fredrickson already weighed in on this - and both agree fully with me. I'll go ahead and downgrade you from their level, and put you in the BFIB bucket with Mecca, Rabbi, Hamas and Bigfatqueef. Congrats!


As the Warden told Andy Dufresne in Shawshank: "I'm pulling you out of that 1-bunk Hilton and casting you down with the sodomites"

[duncan_idaho]

Derrick Goold and Ben Fredrickson already weighed in on this - and both agree fully with me. I'll go ahead and downgrade you from their level, and put you in the BFIB bucket with Mecca, Rabbi, Hamas and Bigfatqueef. Congrats!





As the Warden told Andy Dufresne in Shawshank: "I'm pulling you out of that 1-bunk Hilton and casting you down with the sodomites"


Show me Goold weighing on it and I’ll completely discount the rumors.

[WhawhaWhat]

Derrick Goold and Ben Fredrickson already weighed in on this - and both agree fully with me.

You agreed with them.

[Prison Bitch]

Show me Goold weighing on it and I’ll completely discount the rumors.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13934340&postcount=146

[Chiefspants]

No. It was in response to you lying about me, unprovoked.

Sure. Post the link, and if I made an incorrect analysis of course I'll own it. Who wouldn't?

I did a search over my lunch break. I couldn't find the back and forths I was thinking of in the gamethreads that I was thinking of - but here's the first exchange, with my first post coming earlier in the repo.

I've been wondering if the Royals might kick the tires on Shields for a while.

He could fill Jeremy Guthrie's role of eating 200+ innings while giving our bullpen some much needed relief.



We'll see. A few of my ChiSox friends are going ape**** because it's rumored they'll be sending over one of their top two prospects in exchange. Sox might be going for WS or bust with this one but Shields likely won't cover the very real holes on that roster.

His numbers since 2015 have been much more Jeremy Guthrie than 13-14 Shields.

Uh.....Jeremy Guthrie??? Shields went 13-7 last year with a 3.91 ERA and 216k. Not sure I'd use Batting Practice Guthrie as the right comp.


He's had 1 terrible start this year. It happens. His first 10 starts he had a 3.05 ERA.

Jeremy Guthrie's 2014 FIP: 4.32
James Shields's 2015 FIP: 4.45

James Shields = Jeremy Guthrie

(Falls down laughing)

You're embarrassing yourself.

Right. That comment is out of context from a conversation PB and I had two days ago. I argued that since 2015, Shields resembled more of an inning eater type like Guthrie did for the Royals from 2012-2014.

Shields stats since 2015: 4.44 FIP, 1.357 WHIP, and a 4.00 E.R.A.

He's been an innings eater who has provided relief for the bullpen, but at 34, his role might be a #4 type innings eater at this point.

PB, I like your analysis and think you're one of the best baseball minds on here. But your constant negativity is wearing me down. This team won back to back pennants and is off to strong start despite struggling with major injuries. If that opinion means I embarrassed myself, so be it.

Gawd it'd be nice to get Shields and banish Kennedy to the pen


I know that we've already cluttered up the thread enough. So here's the deal. I'll concede that your concerns about the 2016 season were in the right place, if you own up to repeatedly calling me out and going after me personally (i.e. "I'm embarrassing myself") over Shields.

I still believe that the preponderance of accounts from the STL Media, National Media, and from Cards fans demonstrate that we want nothing to do with Matheny in our locker room, but if you own up about Shields, I'll take back that you got your *** kicked. Deal?

[Prison Bitch]

I did a search over my lunch break. I couldn't find the back and forths I was thinking of in the gamethreads that I was thinking of - but here's the first exchange, with my first post coming earlier in the repo.




Is that What's Eating Gilbert Grape? My bad then. Yes Shields went to shit. I don't presume to know anything about pitching. I'd never sign any vet. They're all pricey and the odds they'll succeed are nil to me. Don't take pitching advice from me in the future.












I still believe that the preponderance of accounts from the STL Media, National Media, and from Cards fans demonstrate that we want nothing to do with Matheny in our locker room, but if you own up about Shields, I'll take back that you got your *** kicked. Deal?

I've stated a dozen times now: it's only about his RELIGIOUS BIAS that I dispute. Not his leadership skills. I'm not getting that across apparently. I'll have to try more - as Richard Nixon famously told his aides, "The 50th time I say something is the 1st time a voter hears it".

[duncan_idaho]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=13934340&postcount=146


That’s fair enough. I missed that. Thanks for linking.

I picked up that note 3rd hand from intense cards here and a few other forums. Won’t repeat it again.

[Chiefspants]

Is that What's Eating Gilbert Grape?

Oh my god. You are such an ass. It's amazing.

I've stated a dozen times now: it's only about his RELIGIOUS BIAS that I dispute. Not his leadership skills.

Let's clear something up. In the beginning. You either doubted the entire existence of a bible study or your word choice gave that impression. That’s what I clarified with Cards fans since the consensus was that they definitely were a part of that locker room.



People spewing the "bible study" charge need to back it up with evidence, or admit they're full of shit.


It’s evident the study existed. Now, I agree with you now from your link that there’s no evidence that the study influenced Matheny’s decisions. For some reason he continued trotting out players whose production was refried ass (Kozma, Choate, Ellis, etc), but you’re right, there’s no evidence that his devotion to players with awful production was because of their attendance to his bible study. I do retract that and won’t repeat that position again. Are we good now, PB?

Out of curiosity, what’s your overall take on Matheny being named as a successor to Yost?

[dallaschiefsfan]

If anything, I'd guess that Matheny is the equivalent of a player reclamation project. They see things they like...but want him in their system to see if they can fix what they don't like. They might just want him around Yost to see if he can learn from what Yost learned about his own mistakes in Milwaukee. It won't make him any better of a tactician (Yost has never really developed on that end, either), but it could move him towards being a better manager to players. It's not a terrible idea. I doubt it's a given at all that he's next in line, regardless.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There's literally nothing he does that's worth reclamation. He's bad at handling players, bad at in-game strategy, and knows dick about analytics. But yeah, good luck getting a guy whose book was called a manifesto in its own title to soften up how he handles players.

[MVChiefFan]

Royals sign Chris Owings.

[Why Not?]

Royals sign Chris Owings.

Decent. Had an awful year last year. Prior to that he was a decent utility guy with some pop who could steal a base or two.

[Chiefspants]

Royals sign Chris Owings.

Now this is a dude that screams GMDM.

[MVChiefFan]

Decent. Had an awful year last year. Prior to that he was a decent utility guy with some pop who could steal a base or two.

Yeah, seemed to have some hard luck hitting last year. Hopefully, he can turn it around.

[MVChiefFan]

Now this is a dude that screams GMDM.

Kind of what I was thinking.

[Great Expectations]

I’ve been worried that GMDM will resign Alcides. Hopefully this signals that we are moving away from him. I couldn’t believe that we signed him to the one year deal last year.

[Prison Bitch]

I had a friend who did this sorta thing with Andy Reid. We all bitched Fat andy was a coward on short + goals. My friend conjured up a theory that Andy fears loss due to the loss of his son to drugs and subconsciously avoids high-risk coaching moves. It all sounded sensible, we had (1) facts about Andy and (2) his coaching behaviors.


Then the last couple years Reid started gojng for it all the time when he had better players and shittier defenses, and the laughable theory went bust. You get the point.

[WhawhaWhat]

He better start polishing up on his new testament.

[BigCatDaddy]

Not sure I have seen a shittier 3 page start to a Royals Repository thread. This thing needs a reboot.

[siberian khatru]

He better start polishing up on his new testament.

I’m sure he’s been certified porn-free.

[Chiefspants]

Not sure I have seen a shittier 3 page start to a Royals Repository thread. This thing needs a reboot.

We're just trying to stay consistent with the 2018 season. Just wait until our ASB. It'll get better.

[lewdog]

Every board needs a know-it-all half retard.

PB I love you.

[ChiefsCountry]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals&#39; center field job is open: Could Billy Hamilton be a potential fit? You&#39;ll hear those rumors over the next week. <a href="https://t.co/H7Uxi2uEG4">https://t.co/H7Uxi2uEG4</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a></p>&mdash; Jeffrey Flanagan (@FlannyMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/FlannyMLB/status/1070746098342481922?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hearing the Royals are looking hard at center fielder Billy Hamilton, recently non-tendered by the Reds. Not a surprise considering they reportedly looked into trading for him in the past and he fits their stated profile of &#39;action-type&#39; players. Looks like <a href="https://twitter.com/FlannyMLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FlannyMLB</a> is on it.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1070749782661099521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OKchiefs]

So how does signing Chris Owings affect our roster crunch? We're now set at the middle IF with Merrifield, Mondesi, and Owings. I'm not sure I see a spot on the roster for Roselle Herrera. Phillips and Goodwin seem to be the options at CF. Cuthbert and Dozier are the two options for at least another year at 3B, although I suppose Kelvin Gutierrez could push for a spot at some point? Nicky Lopez appears to be blocked for the foreseeable future, unless Moore still possibly considers a Merrifield trade next week at the winter meetings or at the trade deadline?

[dallaschiefsfan]

I read recently (can't recall where) that Lopez is effectively ticketed for another year at Omaha, regardless of the ST performance. He's not on the 40 and there's no reason to start his clock at this point. I tend to agree. Barring a crazy haul for Merrifield from another team (doubtful) or prolonged Mondesi injury, we won't see him in KC until 2020.

[duncan_idaho]

I read recently (can't recall where) that Lopez is effectively ticketed for another year at Omaha, regardless of the ST performance. He's not on the 40 and there's no reason to start his clock at this point. I tend to agree. Barring a crazy haul for Merrifield from another team (doubtful) or prolonged Mondesi injury, we won't see him in KC until 2020.


And if they do get that Merrifield offer, Owings probably becomes your everyday 2B.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Owings get some time in CF too.

[WhawhaWhat]

Royals - Ballpark Operations Assistant job posting (https://www.teamworkonline.com/baseball-jobs/kansas-city-royals-jobs/kansas-city-royals/ballpark-operations-assistant-1948794?source=Indeed)

Saw this online and posted it just in case someone was looking for a job and wanted to work at the ballpark.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Winter meetings getting ready to start. Should be interesting.


Hold on to your butts . . . . .

[Discuss Thrower]

My first thought seeing the Owings signing is that Merrifield is on deck to be dealt away.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Part of me thinks the Owings signing was insurance. As in, if we get a good enough offer, bye bye Whit.

I don’t know that they’re actively shopping him, but if someone blows them away they probably should consider it strongly. The winter meetings are usually when stuff like that goes down.

[tk13]

Baseball twitter is in an uproar tonight. The HOF Veterans Committee announced tonight that they are electing Lee Smith and Harold Baines to the HOF. The Harold Baines one is particularly surprising.

[tk13]

Let's put it this way, if you value WAR, and Baines gets in, you could make a case that Frank White and Alex Gordon could get in. They're in the same neighborhood in terms of WAR. But Baines did play for 20 years and was pretty consistent.

[ChiefsCountry]

Lee Smith I could make a case for Baines not so much.

[Coach]

Lee Smith I could make a case for Baines not so much.

Agreed.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Baines had 1 season greater than 3.0 WAR. One. Jim Edmonds, who didn't see the second ballot of the writer's committee, had six straight seasons greater than 6 WAR, and eight seasons better than Baines' career year.

[Coach]

Let's put it this way, if you value WAR, and Baines gets in, you could make a case that Frank White and Alex Gordon could get in. They're in the same neighborhood in terms of WAR. But Baines did play for 20 years and was pretty consistent.

Hell, you can make a case for Hal McRae.

Baines - 289/.356/.465 121 OPS+
Hal McRae - .290/.351/.454 123 OPS+

[Coach]

Baines had 1 season greater than 3.0 WAR. One. Jim Edmonds, who didn't see the second ballot of the writer's committee, had six straight seasons greater than 6 WAR, and eight seasons better than Baines' career year.

Technically, Baines had 2.

1982, he had 3.4.
1984, he had 4.3.

Your point still stands though.

[tk13]

Baines had 1 season greater than 3.0 WAR. One. Jim Edmonds, who didn't see the second ballot of the writer's committee, had six straight seasons greater than 6 WAR, and eight seasons better than Baines' career year.

It's a debate over whether they should value true greatness over a short time vs prolonged consistent success. I mean there's no doubt in my mind what Baines did was an accomplishment. It's hard to be a good player for that long and a lot of guys don't do that. But I don't know where you draw the line. I don't think he's a HOF but I was almost serious about Frank White... there's a guy who played 18 years and had 2000 hits and won 8 gold gloves and had more 4 WAR seasons than Baines did. I get that Baines almost had 3000 hits though.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's a debate over whether they should value true greatness over a short time vs prolonged consistent success. I mean there's no doubt in my mind what Baines did was an accomplishment. It's hard to be a good player for that long and a lot of guys don't do that. But I don't know where you draw the line. I don't think he's a HOF but I was almost serious about Frank White... there's a guy who played 18 years and had 2000 hits and won 8 gold gloves and had more 4 WAR seasons than Baines did. I get that Baines almost had 3000 hits though.

Yeah, I just hate that voters value guys that were above average for a long time but never great. It's one of the biggest issues with counting stats, as I'm sure you know. At least Baines was an objectively good hitter for most of his career. Craig Biggio was a good hitter, but if he had 2960 hits instead of 3060, maybe people realize that the guy was a career .280/.363/.443 guy. Chase Utley was almost just as valuable, and put up that value in far fewer years. Is Utley a HOF?

[Demonpenz]

Yeah, I just hate that voters value guys that were above average for a long time but never great. It's one of the biggest issues with counting stats, as I'm sure you know. At least Baines was an objectively good hitter for most of his career. Craig Biggio was a good hitter, but if he had 2960 hits instead of 3060, maybe people realize that the guy was a career .280/.363/.443 guy. Chase Utley was almost just as valuable, and put up that value in far fewer years. Is Utley a HOF?

biggio playing a couple positions bla bla bla. IDGAF but I remember that being throw around why he was HOF worthy.

[big nasty kcnut]

Dan quisenberry is not in the hall and it's a damn crime.

[duncan_idaho]

Yeah, I just hate that voters value guys that were above average for a long time but never great. It's one of the biggest issues with counting stats, as I'm sure you know. At least Baines was an objectively good hitter for most of his career. Craig Biggio was a good hitter, but if he had 2960 hits instead of 3060, maybe people realize that the guy was a career .280/.363/.443 guy. Chase Utley was almost just as valuable, and put up that value in far fewer years. Is Utley a HOF?


Yeah. Throw in that Biggio probably hurt the Astros his last few seasons while chasing 3k hits and it really leaves a bad taste.

[siberian khatru]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> close to agreement with OF Billy Hamilton just working through bonuses and pending physical</p>&mdash; Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenGM) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1072157258929172480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DJJasonp]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> close to agreement with OF Billy Hamilton just working through bonuses and pending physical</p>&mdash; Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenGM) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1072157258929172480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Great - another .205 hitter!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That's a good signing if you're on the brink of playoff contention and need a replacement for Terrance Gore ;)


Also, to continue an earlier discussion, I have a question for you all:

Who is a player that is currently in the HOF, is widely accepted by the general public/baseball literati as a HOFer, but you don't think belongs in the Hall?

I'll start with Tom Glavine. Without 4-6 extra inches on the outside of the plate he was just a junkballer with longevity.

[siberian khatru]

That's a good signing if you're on the brink of playoff contention and need a replacement for Terrance Gore ;)


Also, to continue an earlier discussion, I have a question for you all:

Who is a player that is currently in the HOF, is widely accepted by the general public/baseball literati as a HOFer, but you don't think belongs in the Hall?

I'll start with Tom Glavine. Without 4-6 extra inches on the outside of the plate he was just a junkballer with longevity.

Jack Morris

[Demonpenz]

Looking at the list of HOF. Pucket and Barry Larkin stick out.

[Jerm]

That's a good signing if you're on the brink of playoff contention and need a replacement for Terrance Gore ;)


Also, to continue an earlier discussion, I have a question for you all:

Who is a player that is currently in the HOF, is widely accepted by the general public/baseball literati as a HOFer, but you don't think belongs in the Hall?

I'll start with Tom Glavine. Without 4-6 extra inches on the outside of the plate he was just a junkballer with longevity.

Of "modern" players, Bruce Sutter or Bill Mazeroski

I think you could make the legit argument against Ozzie Smith too...albeit not a popular opinion lol.

[OKchiefs]

If the Royals have any faith at all that Lopez can be the future at 2B, I think they're pretty much set with enough options at almost every position to consider a Merrifield trade if they can get a decent return.

[CaliforniaChief]

Joey Gathright v2.0

[Demonpenz]

Joey Gathright was Tom Goodwin 2.0

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Of "modern" players, Bruce Sutter or Bill Mazeroski

I think you could make the legit argument against Ozzie Smith too...albeit not a popular opinion lol.

If you throw Smith out, you're gonna need to get rid of Larkin, Yount, Trammell, and Ernie Banks, too.

Smith is arguably the greatest defensive player that ever lived. That's a pretty transcendent skill set, especially since he was an above average hitter for a SS at that time.

[Jerm]

If you throw Smith out, you're gonna need to get rid of Larkin, Yount, Trammell, and Ernie Banks, too.

Smith is arguably the greatest defensive player that ever lived. That's a pretty transcendent skill set, especially since he was an above average hitter for a SS at that time.

Fair points...I don't know if I'd personally make the case against Ozzie (probably because I really like him lol) but I think someone a lot smarter than me could.

I think Sutter is the real stand out one though.

[BigCatDaddy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> close to agreement with OF Billy Hamilton just working through bonuses and pending physical</p>&mdash; Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenGM) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1072157258929172480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That makes 0 sense.

[BigCatDaddy]

If the Royals have any faith at all that Lopez can be the future at 2B, I think they're pretty much set with enough options at almost every position to consider a Merrifield trade if they can get a decent return.

This is your 43rd post saying the same thing.

[OKchiefs]

This is your 43rd post saying the same thing.

Not exactly. My point is that signing Owings and Hamilton now gives us enough depth and options that we can make the trade without leaving a huge hole in the roster. We now have options/competition at CF, 2B, and 3B, all the positions that Merrifield could be penciled in at.

[Sure-Oz]

@JonHeyman: KC, Billy Hamilton have agreed on base pay and are finalizing deal with performance bonuses. Expected to be close to 5M total. Royals need speed in center.

Future trade bait

[duncan_idaho]

That's a good signing if you're on the brink of playoff contention and need a replacement for Terrance Gore ;)


Also, to continue an earlier discussion, I have a question for you all:

Who is a player that is currently in the HOF, is widely accepted by the general public/baseball literati as a HOFer, but you don't think belongs in the Hall?

I'll start with Tom Glavine. Without 4-6 extra inches on the outside of the plate he was just a junkballer with longevity.


Craig Biggio (has to be in because of 3,000 but meritless otherwse)

Jack Morris (very good, not great)

Bill Mazerowski, Rabbit Maranville, Johnny Evers, Joe Tinker, Frank Chance

[BigCatDaddy]

Not exactly. My point is that signing Owings and Hamilton now gives us enough depth and options that we can make the trade without leaving a huge hole in the roster. We now have options/competition at CF, 2B, and 3B, all the positions that Merrifield could be penciled in at.
Yes. Those guys obviously are the same as Merrifield.

[BigCatDaddy]

@JonHeyman: KC, Billy Hamilton have agreed on base pay and are finalizing deal with performance bonuses. Expected to be close to 5M total. Royals need speed in center.

Future trade bait

I've trade to give Moore some rope but it's dumb shit like this that shortens that rope.

[duncan_idaho]

Re: Hamilton ... there isn’t much to lose there for KC other than dollars and there’s some serious upside.

He’s an excellent defender in CF. He can get to replacement level there even if he’s as bat with the bat as he was a year ago.

I could also see the Royals and all that OF grass at the K helping him regain some offensive value. He’s going to be encouraged to bunt and slash and take advantage of his speed as a Royal. If they can’t bring out an average offensive player in him, no one can.

[Bufkin]

I've trade to give Moore some rope but it's dumb shit like this that shortens that rope.
This is an exciting signing that gives KC arguably the best trio of base stealers in baseball. This is a super cheap 1 year deal on a rebuilding team that also gives Hamilton a home ballpark where he can thrive. Our base running and outfield defense are both elite.

[OKchiefs]

Yes. Those guys obviously are the same as Merrifield.

When did I say they're the same? You can't really be that dense. They don't need to be the same, they just need to give us enough capable bodies to not be left with a complete black hole at any one position. Despite what Moore has said about rebuilding, they're clearly in rebuild mode. I'm not a big fan of Moore obviously, but I don't think he's that oblivious and ignorant to not see the merits of making a trade IF the right return is offered. Moore is covering his bases in case he is offered a return he can't refuse.

[Prison Bitch]

Ozzie Smith is the best defensive player ever, scoring higher than even Brooks Robinson in the fWAR tables. 67 WAR, didn’t destroy all that much value st the plate either since he played in a slapdick era where slapdicks at middle infield was fine. I used to say he was basically a hyped up Frank White but that’s not really true - SS is vastly tougher to play and hence Ozzie was worth about twice what White was over their careers.


Oh. Harold Baines is the worse choice I’ve ever seen. Even he said he was “shocked”. He and Bruce “hairy bush face” Sutter have no biz being in. All these mediocrities make it likely I’ll avoid ever going to Cooperstown

[Chiefspants]

This does feel like Moore's doing prep-work for a Merrifield deal. If we can get value from a Whit trade and nail the draft this year, our system suddenly looks a whole lot better.

[Bufkin]

Gordon, Hamilton, and Phillips would make for the best outfield defense in baseball. Sorry Boston. 5 million is chump change.

[OKchiefs]

I've trade to give Moore some rope but it's dumb shit like this that shortens that rope.

I can give a dozen reasons why I'm not a fan of Moore, but this move? Who cares if we sink $5 million on a reclamation project for 1 year. How is this a negative?

[Jerm]

Ozzie Smith is the best defensive player ever, scoring higher than even Brooks Robinson in the fWAR tables. 67 WAR, didn’t destroy all that much value st the plate either since he played in a slapdick era where slapdicks at middle infield was fine. I used to say he was basically a hyped up Frank White but that’s not really true - SS is vastly tougher to play and hence Ozzie was worth about twice what White was over their careers.


Oh. Harold Baines is the worse choice I’ve ever seen. Even he said he was “shocked”. He and Bruce “hairy bush face” Sutter have no biz being in. All these mediocrities make it likely I’ll avoid ever going to Cooperstown

I saw a lot of people on Twitter talking about Baines last night....could not believe he got in.

[duncan_idaho]

I can give a dozen reasons why I'm not a fan of Moore, but this move? Who cares if we sink $5 million on a reclamation project for 1 year. How is this a negative?


Props! I agree completely and thought we should note our rare agreement!

Re: Merrifield, I agree they’re positioned to move him if the right return presents itself, but we’ll have to see what is out there.

[OKchiefs]

Props! I agree completely and thought we should note our rare agreement!

Re: Merrifield, I agree they’re positioned to move him if the right return presents itself, but we’ll have to see what is out there.

:bravo:

I can see the merits of holding on to him and trying again at the deadline. I saw a report that the Reds are considering trading Scooter Gennett, obviously hurting Merrifield's value. We can hope Lopez lights it up in Omaha for 2-3 months, possibly making Merrifield expendable.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Whit’s trade value will never be higher than it is right now; 4 years of control left coming off of leading all of MLB in SB and hits. The time to strike is now, but ONLY if you get the right offer. You don’t just trade him for the sake of trading him.

Hopefully someone blows the Royals away . . . .

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Jack Morris

Absolutely. Jack Morris being in the Hall of Fame is a joke. His career ERA+ was 105! But hey, he threw a lot of innings, so put him in the Hall!

[OKchiefs]

Whit’s trade value will never be higher than it is right now; 4 years of control left coming off of leading all of MLB in SB and hits. The time to strike is now, but ONLY if you get the right offer. You don’t just trade him for the sake of trading him.

Hopefully someone blows the Royals away . . . .

Not sure if the premise is correct or not, but I saw an article that theorized his value is too high right now to get the return we want, and that maybe in a year or so he might finally have a value equivalent to a trade we could reasonably expect to receive.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Not sure if the premise is correct or not, but I saw an article that theorized his value is too high right now to get the return we want, and that maybe in a year or so he might finally have a value equivalent to a trade we could reasonably expect to receive.

I’m fine with the Royals holding on to him for another year or so if no one is willing to give up something good and ‘fair’ in value right now. Eventually (maybe at the trade deadline this year?) someone will try and meet the Royals asking price. Royals definitely need to slow play this one . . . . .

[duncan_idaho]

Hamilton getting on base enough to be a threat is as always the key with him...

But Mondesi should see a ton of fastballs if Hamilton and Merrifield are hitting in front of him (I would hit Hamilton 9th and Merrifield first, with Mondesi hitting 2nd). It’s an interesting roster construction.

He’s not really blocking anyone at this point, so nothing is hurt.

[Prison Bitch]

The time to strike is now, but ONLY if you get the right offer. You don’t just trade him for the sake of trading him.
. .

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/56045064.jpg

[Bufkin]

Hamilton getting on base enough to be a threat is as always the key with him...

But Mondesi should see a ton of fastballs if Hamilton and Merrifield are hitting in front of him (I would hit Hamilton 9th and Merrifield first, with Mondesi hitting 2nd). It’s an interesting roster construction.

He’s not really blocking anyone at this point, so nothing is hurt.
1) 2B Merrifield
2) SS Mondesi
3) C Perez
4) 1B O'Hearn
5) DH Soler
6) LF Gordon
7) RF Bonifacio
8) 3B Dozier
9) CF Hamilton

A lineup similar to this with Owings, Goodwin, Phillips, and Gallagher behind them seems decent enough for Opening Day. It's not going to push us past 500, but again, we'll be incredibly fun to watch IF we get on base.

[siberian khatru]

1) 2B Merrifield
2) SS Mondesi
3) C Perez
4) 1B O'Hearn
5) DH Soler
6) LF Gordon
7) RF Bonifacio
8) 3B Dozier
9) CF Hamilton

A lineup similar to this with Owings, Goodwin, Phillips, and Gallagher behind them seems decent enough for Opening Day. It's not going to push us past 500, but again, we'll be incredibly fun to watch IF we get on base.

Don't think you'll see Bonifacio, Goodwin and Phillips all on the 25-man, especially with Owings, Whit and Soler able to play the OF.

Phillips and Boni have options left -- one of them is going to the minors. Unless they just decide to dump Goodwin.

I'm a big fan of Phillips, and I'd love to see a Gordon-Hamilton-Phillips OF just for the D. Phillips had a good rookie year in Milwaukee in 2017, hopefully he can regain that after an awful 2018 with the bat.

[Al Bundy]

I do like this Hamilton deal.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/56045064.jpg

Sorry.

We can't all offer super insightful commentary like "Oh man they'll have two monster contracts underperforming" in reference to the Padres signing Hosmer and considering Machado.

[BWillie]

Ozzie Smith is the best defensive player ever, scoring higher than even Brooks Robinson in the fWAR tables. 67 WAR, didn’t destroy all that much value st the plate either since he played in a slapdick era where slapdicks at middle infield was fine. I used to say he was basically a hyped up Frank White but that’s not really true - SS is vastly tougher to play and hence Ozzie was worth about twice what White was over their careers.


Oh. Harold Baines is the worse choice I’ve ever seen. Even he said he was “shocked”. He and Bruce “hairy bush face” Sutter have no biz being in. All these mediocrities make it likely I’ll avoid ever going to Cooperstown

If Ozzie Smith didn't do flips , would he be in the HOF? :)

[Prison Bitch]

If Ozzie Smith didn't do flips , would he be in the HOF? :)

I answered that.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Re: Hamilton ... there isn’t much to lose there for KC other than dollars and there’s some serious upside.

He’s an excellent defender in CF. He can get to replacement level there even if he’s as bat with the bat as he was a year ago.

I could also see the Royals and all that OF grass at the K helping him regain some offensive value. He’s going to be encouraged to bunt and slash and take advantage of his speed as a Royal. If they can’t bring out an average offensive player in him, no one can.

^^^^^^
THIS

Plus, who are some of our most-promising and young assets? Junis, Keller, Lopez, Fillmyer. What is the best friend of developing pitchers that you don't want worrying about whether pitching to contact will constantly kill them? Defense. Specifically, outfield defense. This is a developmental move as much as anything - for the pitchers. I'm all for any move that helps those guys out as they mature.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Don't think you'll see Bonifacio, Goodwin and Phillips all on the 25-man, especially with Owings, Whit and Soler able to play the OF.

Phillips and Boni have options left -- one of them is going to the minors. Unless they just decide to dump Goodwin.

I'm a big fan of Phillips, and I'd love to see a Gordon-Hamilton-Phillips OF just for the D. Phillips had a good rookie year in Milwaukee in 2017, hopefully he can regain that after an awful 2018 with the bat.

Unless Phillips looks dreadful in ST and Boni is just crushing the ball, I think Boni goes down without question and they start with the all-world outfield defense of Gordon, Hamilton and Phillips. Not likely to look the same all year, but it's a good strategy to start things off. Plus, I THINK we know what Boni is...but Phillips just needs to be given a ton of at-bats and see if he can figure it out at the plate while making highlight reel throws from RF.