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View Full Version : Chiefs Fisher and Schwartz - the Chandler Jones effect or something to worry about?


htismaqe
11-12-2018, 09:38 AM
The last couple of weeks have been rough on the tackles for whatever reason. Outside of the penalties, it's the pressure that is particularly concerning. Against the Browns, it was evident but against the Cardinals, it was pronounced.

Is it just the edge rush being better for those two teams? If so, where was Von Miller? They've faced great edge rushers and not struggled like this. Is it the domino effect of injuries in the middle radiating out to the tackles?

Anybody else concerned about this going forward?

pugsnotdrugs19
11-12-2018, 09:39 AM
It was really only Fisher who was bad from what I could tell—and yes, that’s probably because he was facing Jones and Garrett on a regular basis. They’re ass kickers.

O.city
11-12-2018, 09:39 AM
Jones is pretty good. He gave Fisher problems all day, but and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, some of it is on Mahomes. A few times he hit the back of his drop and stayed there. He needed to step up in the pocket.

Fisher had Jones pushed around the back end, but Pat didn't climb the pocket. Maybe he couldn't because of inside pressure.

Chiefs=Champions
11-12-2018, 09:40 AM
Jones and Garrett are two of the best in the league.

petegz28
11-12-2018, 09:41 AM
Jones is damn good and Mahomes didn't help on a couple of the sacks by holding the ball.

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 09:41 AM
It was really only Fisher who was bad from what I could tell—and yes, that’s probably because he was facing Jones and Garrett on a regular basis. They’re ass kickers.

Schwartz struggled more than Fisher last week but they've both been seemingly "off" now for a bit.

Like I said, the opposition pass rushers have been fierce but then again, why did they blank Von Miller if that's all it is?

pugsnotdrugs19
11-12-2018, 09:41 AM
Jones is pretty good. He gave Fisher problems all day, but and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, some of it is on Mahomes. A few times he hit the back of his drop and stayed there. He needed to step up in the pocket.

Fisher had Jones pushed around the back end, but Pat didn't climb the pocket. Maybe he couldn't because of inside pressure.

Looked like inside pressure prevented it on a couple of occasions, yes.

Theyíre gonna see plenty of inside pressure next Monday so the tackles have to step up big.

carcosa
11-12-2018, 09:44 AM
There were definitely a few plays where our beautiful boy held the ball too long. But Fisher got his ass kicked

jjchieffan
11-12-2018, 09:58 AM
Mahomes definitely was at fault a couple of times. But yeah, the Cardinals we're in the backfield for most of the game. I was really surprised to see how well their defense played yesterday. This is the same team that lost 45-10 to the inept Donks with their crappy line and Case friggin Keesum at quarterback.

Why Not?
11-12-2018, 10:01 AM
A number 1 overall pick LT should be able to not get owned consistently by premiere pass rushers. Also, name me the last big game you can recall without a Fisher penalty?

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 10:04 AM
I did notice Mahomes holding the ball a little too long. But something was just off yesterday. It was a little distressing, I have to say.

Like JJ said, this was a Cardinals defense that got beat soundly by Case Keenum. The Broncos offensive line is terrible, too.

O.city
11-12-2018, 10:06 AM
Broncos got them on a short week. It happens. NFL is all about matchups.

In the end, the Chiefs played pretty lackluster and won by 2 scores. On to the next week with things to clean up.

Rasputin
11-12-2018, 10:06 AM
I still think Fisher should bulk up. He's been having a good season but was clearly over matched.



On the flipside of the ball the Cardinals tackle kept tackling Dee Ford. Eric Fisher didn't resort tackling Chandler-Jones.

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 10:08 AM
I still think Fisher should bulk up. He's been having a good season but was clearly over matched.

On the flipside of the ball the Cardinals tackle kept tackling Dee Ford. Eric Fisher didn't resort tackling Chandler-Jones.

He actually did a couple of times.

RunKC
11-12-2018, 10:18 AM
Chandler Jones has 49 sacks in the last 3.5 seasons and led the league last season. I think heís a top 3 rusher in this league.

I think Fisher struggled because he never faces rushers like Jones. There really isnít a rusher like him in the league.

Jones is pretty much what Dorsey hoped Kpassognon would turn out to be. Arms as long as vines, elite caliber athletic ability and knowledge of how to bend the edge.

Fisher got beat twice yesterday simply by not being able to get his hands on the guy due to his long ass arms holding him off and then his dip around the edge.

Not worried because we wonít see a rusher like him again.

KCChiefsFan88
11-12-2018, 10:24 AM
Fisher has been solid this year, so hopefully this was an anomaly and a case of a bad match-up with Chandler Jones.

Reid could have done more to adjust his in-game strategy by putting an extra blocker to help Fisher and also calling quicker pass plays.

staylor26
11-12-2018, 10:26 AM
Keenum had 160 yards 1 TD and 1 INT against the Cards

The Broncos defense is the reason why they scored a lot of points, not Keenum.

VAChief
11-12-2018, 10:27 AM
Jones is pretty good. He gave Fisher problems all day, but and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, some of it is on Mahomes. A few times he hit the back of his drop and stayed there. He needed to step up in the pocket.

Fisher had Jones pushed around the back end, but Pat didn't climb the pocket. Maybe he couldn't because of inside pressure.

It looked like he didn't consider his check downs as much as he had in previous games. Most of our guys have proven pretty good at YAC, he could have done better there. We won, and it is nice to call 2 TDs and 249 yards passing a "down" game for him, but that was surprising to see him not get through his projections a little quicker. He has been excellent there all season. Hopefully just a hiccup. He has made our line look better than they are at protecting.

Hog's Gone Fishin
11-12-2018, 10:35 AM
Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 10:36 AM
Keenum had 160 yards 1 TD and 1 INT against the Cards

The Broncos defense is the reason why they scored a lot of points, not Keenum.

Good point.

Chief Northman
11-12-2018, 10:38 AM
Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

No Watkins, no DAT.

Maybe saving it for later in the year...

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 10:39 AM
Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

The Cardinals were setting the edge pretty much all day. Hunt got dropped for a loss on the outside more than once.

Simply Red
11-12-2018, 10:39 AM
Seems it's as simple as we didn't match up well vs. their pass-rush. I wouldn't say it's TOO much to worry about, but I don't think they ignore what happened, either. Andy will address it w/ Bob, I'd imagine.

Buckweath
11-12-2018, 10:49 AM
We all know Eric Fisher is not a an elite tackle but him and Schwartz are never injured and are a real solid duo. They are the least of my concerns.

Even Von Miller called them the best tackle duo in the league just recently.

If anything, this is to be expected that especially Fisher can allow a few pressures and sacks once in a while.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2018, 10:52 AM
Fisher's a good player - he's not a great player.

Chandler Jones is a great player.

And there have been better players than Eric Fisher that have had bad days before. That's the dividing line between good/great players - great players don't have them very often (and HoF ones don't ever; I don't think Willie Roaf or Will Shields ever had a bad day).

But Eric Fisher will. And when he has a day where he's just out of sync and he's matched up against a guy that's simply a better player than he is if they're both having their best days, well that's a recipe for disaster.

I think Andy was a little slow to help out on the line; the offensive gameplan clearly did not figure on the Cardinals being that effective with their rush and they didn't get to a plan B. And yeah, I think Mahomes is on the hook for 2 of those sacks but that's gonna happen to any QB - he can't save the line every time.

And I never felt like the Browns were harrying Mahomes to speak of; I felt like Fisher and Schwartz had good games against Cleveland; that offense could have done whatever it wanted.

This just struck me as a combination of a guy having a bad day at the same time he was matched up against a player that's simply better than him. Shit happens - survive and advance.

Everyone keeps saying "well the Chiefs will have a clunker here sooner or later" and to my eyes this was one of those clunkers. Good teams lose a clunker here and there. Great teams win that game despite simply not playing well. We've done that twice now (AZ and the home game v Den; the road game at Denver doesn't really count to me because I feel like Denver played great defense in that game). These games just happen sometimes and winning them is a testament to just how good this team is.

The Patriots didn't show up and got boat raced.

Hog's Gone Fishin
11-12-2018, 10:56 AM
It looked like he didn't consider his check downs as much as he had in previous games. Most of our guys have proven pretty good at YAC, he could have done better there. We won, and it is nice to call 2 TDs and 249 yards passing a "down" game for him, but that was surprising to see him not get through his projections a little quicker. He has been excellent there all season. Hopefully just a hiccup. He has made our line look better than they are at protecting.

Obviously ,his family emergency was on his mind.

ChiefBlueCFC
11-12-2018, 10:57 AM
Donald and Suh are gonna eat our interior line alive on Monday night. Not looking forward to that

Frosty
11-12-2018, 11:00 AM
Erving was on the injury report with an illness a good chunk of last week. I wonder if it was the flu and has started to spread. :shrug: i thought the o-line looked kind of lethargic at times yesterday (Patrick too).

DJ's left nut
11-12-2018, 11:03 AM
Donald and Suh are gonna eat our interior line alive on Monday night. Not looking forward to that

Suh worries me because he simply hasn't been very good this year but against lesser quality players, he might finally stand out.

Donald, OTOH, well the injuries don't worry me because Donald will rape ANYBODY on the other side of him. Seriously - mere human beings are speedbumps for that guy and even if we had LDT and Morse on their best days, Donald would still wreck shit.

He's just a freakshow and in the end all we could do to minimize his impact is to try to gameplan around him. For my money, that will mean a LOT of misdirection. Nobody can physically beat him so you have to get him thinking. If you can get him thinking rather than simply reacting, you can slow him down a bit.

So if the Chiefs are to succeed against Donald, it won't be because their interior line stood him up - it would not have gone that way regardless of the personnel. It will be because Andy/Eric have cooked up some weird shit to get him caught in between.

jaa1025
11-12-2018, 11:15 AM
A number 1 overall pick LT should be able to not get owned consistently by premiere pass rushers. Also, name me the last big game you can recall without a Fisher penalty?

This is the first game that he's struggled this year. He's playing like one of the better LT's in the league.

Hoover
11-12-2018, 11:30 AM
I thought our play calling was very predictable last night. We were running the ball horizontally on 1st down a lot. Better play calling would have kept the defense off balance some. We did better with screens on first down.

BandwagonChiefsFan
11-12-2018, 11:38 AM
Sammy Watkins effect?

The two games where our offense struggled most came with him not playing.

Marcellus
11-12-2018, 11:42 AM
A number 1 overall pick LT should be able to not get owned consistently by premiere pass rushers. Also, name me the last big game you can recall without a Fisher penalty?

Fisher hadn't given up a single sack prior to yesterday.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2018, 11:43 AM
Fisher hadn't given up a single sack prior to yesterday.

Yeah, that post didn't warrant response.

Someone made up his mind 4 years ago and hasn't been paying attention. I wouldn't give it much more thought than that.

Hoover
11-12-2018, 11:45 AM
Fisher hadn't given up a single sack prior to yesterday.
Yep. He's an easy guy to bitch about because he went 1.1, but the dude is good and he doesn't break the bank. I mean what do you want the Chiefs to do replace him? You guys ready to use a first rounder on a LT? I'm not. And at pick 30 you are not going to get much better.

staylor26
11-12-2018, 11:49 AM
People that constantly bitch about Fisher haven’t taken a look around the league. It’s hard to find LT’s like Fisher in today’s NFL. It’s a sad truth.

O.city
11-12-2018, 11:50 AM
I wish a few of those Cards defenders were in KC damn it. I was told the trades were done!

Fish
11-12-2018, 11:52 AM
Fisher hadn't given up a single sack prior to yesterday.

Where do you find that stat? I have a hard time believing it watching Fisher this year. He's given up plenty of pressure.

Eleazar
11-12-2018, 11:53 AM
They had a tough game against some very good players, but it's not going to get any easier next week

Eleazar
11-12-2018, 11:53 AM
People that constantly bitch about Fisher havenít taken a look around the league. Itís hard to find LTís like Fisher in todayís NFL. Itís a sad truth.

He's a decent quality starting LT who stays healthy. That's not exactly a common thing.

Pitt Gorilla
11-12-2018, 12:06 PM
A number 1 overall pick LT should be able to not get owned consistently by premiere pass rushers. Also, name me the last big game you can recall without a Fisher penalty?
Not sure how his draft position is relevant here.

58-4ever
11-12-2018, 12:16 PM
Jones and Garrett are two of the best in the league.

Probably the absolute 2 best. They had not allowed a sack all year outside of the last two weeks. I also agree that Pat owns some of that. He is still learning. I am excited about our tackle play this year.

The Rams outside rushers have been awful this year. If Fisher struggles on Monday night, I might start to get worried.

MahiMike
11-12-2018, 12:16 PM
Watching that Rams game, we need to worry about the middle as much as anything.

Marcellus
11-12-2018, 12:24 PM
Where do you find that stat? I have a hard time believing it watching Fisher this year. He's given up plenty of pressure.

The radio broadcast mentioned it multiple times.

htismaqe
11-12-2018, 12:25 PM
People that constantly bitch about Fisher havenít taken a look around the league. Itís hard to find LTís like Fisher in todayís NFL. Itís a sad truth.

Yep. Great left tackles are ALMOST as hard to find as great QB's.

Fish
11-12-2018, 12:26 PM
The radio broadcast mentioned it multiple times.

Well I don't believe it.

Marcellus
11-12-2018, 12:27 PM
Well I don't believe it.

LMAO well OK then, suit yourself.

dj56dt58
11-12-2018, 12:32 PM
Fisher's a good player - he's not a great player.

Chandler Jones is a great player.

And there have been better players than Eric Fisher that have had bad days before. That's the dividing line between good/great players - great players don't have them very often (and HoF ones don't ever; I don't think Willie Roaf or Will Shields ever had a bad day).



Remember that LT for the Bengals..he was one of the best in the league. He got owned every time he faced Tamba and even got benched against him