Monday Nights defensive performance

[O.city]

https://twitter.com/jasonlisk/status/1064947882942447616?s=21

[O.city]

Interesting way to look at it

The defenses actually performed pretty well, just had so many possessions it made it tough

[rabblerouser]

Interesting way to look at it

The defenses actually performed pretty well, just had so many possessions it made it tough

You're either still drunk from last night, already drunk this morning, or retarded. Here, let me help :

https://thebiglead.com/2018/11/20/the-rams-played-the-best-defensive-game-against-the-chiefs-offense-all-year-and-the-chiefs-played-the-rams-tough-too/amp/?__twitter_impression=true



The Big Lead
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The Rams Played the Best Defensive Game Against the Chiefs Offense All Year, and the Chiefs Played the Rams Tough Too
By Jason Lisk | 20 hours ago
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The final score of Monday night’s game was 54-51. It’s the only game in NFL history where both teams hit the half-century mark in scoring. When I talked about the game in the immediate aftermath, though, I immediately pointed out all the great plays in all phases, including the unsung booming punt by Johnny Hekker after the Chiefs forced a three-and-out, a punt that forced Patrick Mahomes to go for broke on the final interception.

I’m going to go a step further today. I’ve heard that the points allowed is a major concern for both teams and actually reaching the Super Bowl. I’m not sure we watched the same game. The Rams played probably the best defensive game against the Chiefs all year, with the defensive line driving at Mahomes all night. The Chiefs played the Rams pretty well on offense, compared to some other recent teams, and rattled Jared Goff plenty of times in the pocket.

The Chiefs only scored on half of their offensive possessions. The Rams scored on just over half of theirs. The defenses accounted for negative plays, and scored three touchdowns combined. It’s some world we live in where the defenses score 21 points and then that is used as a talking point against them.

Since 54-51 sounds more like a college basketball score, maybe we should talk about basketball. In basketball, more knowledgeable fans are aware of tempo-free stats. Some teams have low scoring games because they play at slower paces. Those teams may actually be better at offense than defense, but the pace just reduces the number of total scoring opportunities for both teams. Similarly, fast-paced teams can still be very good on defense, if we look at percentage of times they allow a score, but the total scores may be much higher. There is a lot of variation.

Well, the equivalent of that in the NFL is to look at points per drive. Generally, there’s not nearly as much variation in the number of possessions, but you need to start thinking that way about last night, and what’s to come in the future.

For the most part, teams try to combat the Chiefs and Rams by trying to control the ball, and limit the number of possessions. If you can keep it to a nine-possession game for each team, you have a better chance than if the Chiefs or Rams get 12. Opponents are doing the equivalent of trying to run as much of the shot clock as possible, and then hope for a couple of stops and turnovers. They try to put a governor on those offenses, not by stopping them, but by controlling how quickly they score, and how quickly they get the ball back.

Last night, the governor was off, the two thoroughbreds were not held back by opponents, and the teams combined for 27 total offensive possessions, back and forth at breakneck pace. If it felt like a NFL game on crack, and you can’t quite place why, it’s because there were just way more chances. You got like 40% more Chiefs and Rams than you are used to seeing, especially when you consider they often let off the pedal when winning big late.


In the first 10 games, the Chiefs averaged 9.8 offensive possessions per game and scored an average of 3.4 points per drive. Last night, they scored 3.1 points per drive, on a whopping 14 drives.

In the first 10 games, the Rams averaged 9.9 offensive possessions per game and scored an average of 3.2 points per drive. Last night, they scored 3.1 points per drive on an incredible 13 drives, excluding the kneel downs at the end of each half.

Then consider that the defenses scored points on some of those drives. Here’s a summary of the points per drive allowed, and net points per drive allowed including defensive scores and safeties, for both team offenses by game:

CHIEFS



RAMS


The Rams were roughly middle of the pack in points per drive against the Chiefs. But if you give them credit for creating two scores (and why wouldn’t you?) then there’s a decent argument it was the best defensive performance against the Chiefs.

If you just go by points allowed, meanwhile, you might think it was an awful performance. No, that was San Francisco, where the Chiefs scored 35 in the first half and ended the game with only eight possessions. That was the Pittsburgh game. That was Cincinnati getting blitzed, and Cleveland giving up 37 on nine possessions.

The Chiefs, meanwhile, had the 4th-lowest points per drive allowed against the Rams. If you account for the TD, I’m comfortable saying that the Chiefs had the third-best performance against the Rams offense, behind only what the Packers and Broncos did.

Yes, these defenses gave up big plays. They also made a lot of them besides the obvious touchdowns. The Rams forced a three-and-out on the first drive. The Rams forced a three-and-out right after they took a 40-30 lead, but then the Chiefs got a sack and put the Rams in a 3rd-and-30 and got the ball back. made a key tackle on a third down, when already trailing 40-30. With the score 47-44, the Rams stopped the Chiefs on a three-and-out, and Kansas City again reciprocated when Kendall Fuller made a shoestring tackle on Brandin Cooks on a play that could have gained a first down. The Chiefs gave the offense one more chance when they stopped the Rams after Patrick Mahomes threw an interception. Heck, the worst performers of the night–the all-star officiating crew–missed some bad calls in the red zone that led to points for both offenses.

That’s a lot of stops against these offenses, and it’s reflected in those points per drive numbers.

So welcome to the new age. Embrace drive stats. Because when two juggernauts get together, they remove all the restrictors and just go all out, and you just get way more offense, way more drives, and more chances to make plays both good and bad on defense.

[Dunerdr]

So, both defenses made plays but still sucked.

[Jimmya]

FSN1 "it's a shame that KC hasn't shored up their defense that has cost them 2 playoff games and now they have a great QB that will have to will them through the AFC play-off gauntlet."

[Marcellus]

FSN1 "it's a shame that KC hasn't shored up their defense that has cost them 2 playoff games and now they have a great QB that will have to will them through the AFC play-off gauntlet."

Thing is I dont see a gauntlet, especially if we get HFA.

I am no longer worried about anyone we would play at home.

[Jimmya]

I agree... They were talking about cold weather and how our offense would perform and talking about tough defenses like Steelers and Titans.

[rabblerouser]

FSN1 "it's a shame that KC hasn't shored up their defense that has cost them 2 playoff games and now they have a great QB that will have to will them through the AFC play-off gauntlet."


I agree... They were talking about cold weather and how our offense would perform and talking about tough defenses like Steelers and Titans.

They mean the defense that held Pittsburgh without a TD and the Titans to 23 points? All we needed in either game was an offense to string a few first downs together and run time off the clock?? Instead the QB missed a wide open Tyreek in the end zone vs Pitt and couldn't manage a single point in the 2nd half vs Titans?

Those two playoff games?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

They mean the defense that held Pittsburgh without a TD and the Titans to 23 points? All we needed in either game was an offense to string a few first downs together and run time off the clock?? Instead the QB missed a wide open Tyreek in the end zone vs Pitt and couldn't manage a single point in the 2nd half vs Titans?

Those two playoff games?

That's true.

[New World Order]

Going to get flamed for this but I thought the d was pretty solid. They forced 2 turnovers and 4 punts.

If we can do that and not turn the ball over 5 times we should beat everyone in the playoffs.

[rabblerouser]

That's true.

I thought I remembered something about all that. Going to get flamed for this but I thought the d was pretty solid. They forced 2 turnovers and 4 punts.

If we can do that and not turn the ball over 5 times we should beat everyone in the playoffs.
That's true.

[O.city]

Going to get flamed for this but I thought the d was pretty solid. They forced 2 turnovers and 4 punts.

If we can do that and not turn the ball over 5 times we should beat everyone in the playoffs.

Yeah, I mean, if you just turn it over 2 times, you win by 10 plus.

If we get that defensive performance in the playoffs and don't go turnover crazy, I'm not sure an AFC team can beat them.

[rabblerouser]

Yeah, I mean, if you just turn it over 2 times, you win by 10 plus.

If we get that defensive performance in the playoffs and don't go turnover crazy, I'm not sure an AFC team can beat them.

This.

[ModSocks]

The D had one of their better games i thought, score be damned.

Imagine trying to stop the Chiefs offense while your O surrenders 5 turnovers. Because that's essentially what our D had to do.

I'm trying to think of a defense in the league that wouldn't surrender 54 to us if their O turned the ball over 5 times.

[O.city]

The D had one of their better games i thought, score be damned.

Imagine trying to stop the Chiefs offense while your O surrenders 5 turnovers. Because that's essentially what our D had to do.

I'm trying to think of a defense in the league that wouldn't surrender 54 to us if their O turned the ball over 5 times.

Technically, they surrendered, 40. That's not ideal, but like you said, in that situation, I dunno.

[The Franchise]

The D had one of their better games i thought, score be damned.

Imagine trying to stop the Chiefs offense while your O surrenders 5 turnovers. Because that's essentially what our D had to do.

I'm trying to think of a defense in the league that wouldn't surrender 54 to us if their O turned the ball over 5 times.

This.

[staylor26]

The D had one of their better games i thought, score be damned.

Imagine trying to stop the Chiefs offense while your O surrenders 5 turnovers. Because that's essentially what our D had to do.

I'm trying to think of a defense in the league that wouldn't surrender 54 to us if their O turned the ball over 5 times.

:clap:

It takes somebody that really understands the NFL/football to get this.

[Buehler445]

I agree the D played pretty well.

However the counter argument to the possession count is that BOTH defenses got smoked for deep balls and big plays. That’s why there were so many possessions.

The other aspect of the defense that is positive is that we didn’t get raped by a single player. Most notably Gurley. (That’s not to say Gurley wouldn’t have if they fed him. I’m not sure what McVeigh was doing). But it took great and creative play calling from McVeigh (even if I might disagree with his overriding strategy) to Get production.

It would be more worrisome if we couldn’t stop fools in the seam or gashed on the run or bite on a bootleg every time.

That would be more worrisome than what I saw IMO.

[O.city]

Buehler is right there.

But I will say, as he says in the article, both offenses just had the governor off and were just running wide the fuck open. Sometimes you've gotta protect your defense a little bit on the offensive side. It's why you can't go all Chip Kelly all the time and just go full throttle. It puts your d behind the 8 ball.

Not only that but when the d did get turnovers, 3 times they led directly to points and you had to run right back out there.

[The Franchise]

Buehler is right there.

But I will say, as he says in the article, both offenses just had the governor off and were just running wide the fuck open. Sometimes you've gotta protect your defense a little bit on the offensive side. It's why you can't go all Chip Kelly all the time and just go full throttle. It puts your d behind the 8 ball.

Not only that but when the d did get turnovers, 3 times they led directly to points and you had to run right back out there.

In a game like that....you have no option BUT to run the offense wide the fuck open. That game was basically both defenses selling out to stop the run....big plays be damned.

[O.city]

In a game like that....you have no option BUT to run the offense wide the **** open. That game was basically both defenses selling out to stop the run....big plays be damned.

The CHiefs did. The Rams didn't really. The Chiefs ran it whenever they wanted. They just didn't want to very often.

It was just awesome to watch. They said it on the broadcast but it really was two heavy weights in the middle of the ring just throwing haymakers, leaving your chin open be damned.

[Buehler445]

Buehler is right there.

But I will say, as he says in the article, both offenses just had the governor off and were just running wide the fuck open. Sometimes you've gotta protect your defense a little bit on the offensive side. It's why you can't go all Chip Kelly all the time and just go full throttle. It puts your d behind the 8 ball.

Not only that but when the d did get turnovers, 3 times they led directly to points and you had to run right back out there.

Every time the score too fast thing comes up (unless there is a lead of course)
I always take the points when they’re there. Always. They may not be there later if you take a conservative approach. Things get condensed as the field gets short and some options are off the table.

See also: Smith, Alex.

[Buehler445]

The CHiefs did. The Rams didn't really. The Chiefs ran it whenever they wanted. They just didn't want to very often.

It was just awesome to watch. They said it on the broadcast but it really was two heavy weights in the middle of the ring just throwing haymakers, leaving your chin open be damned.

I think the best defense in games like that is offense. You see at as not covering your chin, but if a long drive doesn’t keep those guys from getting hot you’re D is getting raped regardless.

[O.city]

Every time the score too fast thing comes up (unless there is a lead of course)
I always take the points when they’re there. Always. They may not be there later if you take a conservative approach. Things get condensed as the field gets short and some options are off the table.

See also: Smith, Alex.

No I always take the points, just that sometimes, it's smart to shorten a game a little. Run it a few more times, let the clock get going to protect your d.

But points matter.

[O.city]

What made it tough on the defenses was that when they did get turnovers, 3 times they scored directly on those. So your defense doesn't get a break and they're right back out there.

Against those offenses, that's just tough.

[SAUTO]

I agree the D played pretty well.

However the counter argument to the possession count is that BOTH defenses got smoked for deep balls and big plays. That’s why there were so many possessions.

The other aspect of the defense that is positive is that we didn’t get raped by a single player. Most notably Gurley. (That’s not to say Gurley wouldn’t have if they fed him. I’m not sure what McVeigh was doing). But it took great and creative play calling from McVeigh (even if I might disagree with his overriding strategy) to Get production.

It would be more worrisome if we couldn’t stop fools in the seam or gashed on the run or bite on a bootleg every time.

That would be more worrisome than what I saw IMO.Gurley was hurt.

i tried to tell you guys i saw him gimped up during the game...

[Chief_N_Bama]

I think, while it can be much better than it is, the defense is good enough when paired with this offense. The Chiefs are 9-2, and both of those losses were by 3, on the road, against legit Super Bowl caliber teams. Does anyone think those games aren’t W’s at Arrowhead? The Chiefs sacked Goff 5 times at LA, how many times do they get to him at Arrowhead, when the tackles can’t hear the snap count and can’t play games with their snap like they can at home?

[Buehler445]

Gurley was hurt.

i tried to tell you guys i saw him gimped up during the game...

Right but then he stuck it in sideways for 25 goddamn yards when they needed a first. He looked pretty damn good there. Damn it.

[The Franchise]

Gurley was hurt.

i tried to tell you guys i saw him gimped up during the game...

They mentioned on rotoworld that he rolled his ankle in the 1st quarter.

[SAUTO]

Right but then he stuck it in sideways for 25 goddamn yards when they needed a first. He looked pretty damn good there. Damn it.

i know, but he didnt look right.

[SAUTO]

They mentioned on rotoworld that he rolled his ankle in the 1st quarter.

i read that, looked more to me he took a hard hit on the thigh. thats what knocked him OOB on the play i noticed at least. then he gimped around back to the huddle

[Buehler445]

i know, but he didnt look right.

Just good enough to break it off in our ass when we needed a stop. :D.

Or it could be that we were cramming the run and their best option was outside. Hard to argue against it.

Bottom line is losing this way was more comforting than getting buttfucked by one player all night.

[New World Order]

O'daniel in the middle was a huge difference.

Run defense was pretty good and backs weren't catching the ball out of the backfield for 10+ yards.

Now if we can just get Berry back out there to lock down the TEs we should be in pretty good shape.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

I think the defense was fine after making adjustments after the first few drives. They just weren't prepared at the start.

I don't agree at all with the "this team can't win a SB with this defense" contingent. Especially given that none of the contenders have great defenses this year.

When your offense can turn it over 5 times and still drop 50+, you can beat anybody.

Chiefs-Saints would probably be 60-57.

[The Franchise]

I think the defense was fine after making adjustments after the first few drives. They just weren't prepared at the start.

I don't agree at all with the "this team can't win a SB with this defense" contingent. Especially given that none of the contenders have great defenses this year.

When your offense can turn it over 5 times and still drop 50+, you can beat anybody.

Chiefs-Saints would probably be 60-57.

The defense was prepared. What they weren't prepared for was all the flags they were getting for playing their normal physical game. That fucked them up.