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Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:00 PM
Veachs defensive acquisitions since hes been GM: Revis (washed), Breeland Speaks (fat and slow) Derrick nnadi(ok), Darien Odaniel (part time player), Armani Watts (injured just like in college), Tremon Smith (sucks), Anthony Hitchens (most overpaid player in the league) Ragland who we gave a draft pick for knee literally swelled flying to camp, Scandrick didn't even play tonight.


1.5 years not 1 impact player on defense

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:01 PM
Dont forget Sammy "Im hurt again" Watkins

Why Not?
12-23-2018, 11:01 PM
This would be a hard point to argue if I didn't 100% agree

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:03 PM
Oh and watch what you say about Brett Veach. His fan club will be here shortly to tell you all about how he found Patrick Mahomes and made the Chiefs draft him. He is supposed to be some awesome talent evaluator but he actually sucks taint.

pugsnotdrugs19
12-23-2018, 11:04 PM
He’s got a lot to prove but let’s not forget that we’ve got the worst motherfucking defensive coordinator on the face of the Earth at every motherfucking level.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:05 PM
Oh and watch what you say about Brett Veach. His fan club will be here shortly to tell you all about how he found Patrick Mahomes and made the Chiefs draft him. He is supposed to be some awesome talent evaluator but he actually sucks taint.

Yea well he got drafted while Dorsey was GM so that's who gets credit for it.

I'll give Veach the guys acquired while he was titled GM and so far, he sucks balls.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:06 PM
Heís got a lot to prove but letís not forget that weíve got the worst motherfucking defensive coordinator on the face of the Earth at every motherfucking level.

Yea and isn't it partially his job to maybe say something about that?

dirk digler
12-23-2018, 11:06 PM
You may be right but I am willing to give him 1 more off season. And let's be honest though he is Reid's hand picked GM.

Sam Hall
12-23-2018, 11:06 PM
I start with the signing of Amerson. Everyone on this board knew he was terrible.

gold_and_red
12-23-2018, 11:06 PM
Right now it is unclear which variable sucks more the defensive talent or the coaching.

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:06 PM
He’s got a lot to prove but let’s not forget that we’ve got the worst mother****ing defensive coordinator on the face of the Earth at every mother****ing level.

I dont think Sutton is good, but hes not the reason the D sucks. People blame coordinators too much. Im sure hed be better with a few good corners and less broke dicks.

Superturtle
12-23-2018, 11:07 PM
Giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft since you're not finding impact players with your first pick being at #45, but his free agency was absolutely horrendous. Very well may have been the worst in the league.

pugsnotdrugs19
12-23-2018, 11:07 PM
Yea and isn't it partially his job to maybe say something about that?

I heard on a podcast just this past week that Reid was the only reason Sutton stayed this year.

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:08 PM
You may be right but I am willing to give him 1 more off season. And let's be honest though he is Reid's hand picked GM.

Yup Reid gets this post season and next then he can GTFO

BlackOp
12-23-2018, 11:08 PM
Dorsey has resurrected the Browns...just like he did here.

One of the biggest fuck-ups in Chiefs history....

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:08 PM
Yea well he got drafted while Dorsey was GM so that's who gets credit for it.

I'll give Veach the guys acquired while he was titled GM and so far, he sucks balls.

Oh I agree. Dorsey should have never been fired.

pugsnotdrugs19
12-23-2018, 11:09 PM
I dont think Sutton is good, but hes not the reason the D sucks. People blame coordinators too much. Im sure hed be better with a few good corners and less broke dicks.

Dude. We ran cover 1 man EVERY FUCKING PLAY. It wasnít even a question. The 2nd half was all single high press man. Itís too fucking easy.

Same shit he has done for years.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:09 PM
Giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft since you're not finding impact players with your first pick being at #45, but his free agency was absolutely horrendous. Very well may have been the worst in the league.

Good teams find competent starting players outside of the first round..

This team does lack talent on defense yet they have a bunch of highly paid guys who don't get the job done and they play stupid.

When the whole team looks like that it's on everyone.

New World Order
12-23-2018, 11:09 PM
Hitchens makes me want to vomit

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:09 PM
Giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft since you're not finding impact players with your first pick being at #45, but his free agency was absolutely horrendous. Very well may have been the worst in the league.

Draft aside which I'm not buying that excuse dude made Hitchens one of the most highest paid players in the league.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:10 PM
Dude. We ran cover 1 man EVERY FUCKING PLAY. It wasnít even a question. The 2nd half was all single high press man. Itís too fucking easy.

Same shit he has done for years.

Cover 1 press man in todays NFL is basically asking to get torched...we have a shitty secondary and he's making them even worse.

Chiefs4TheWin
12-23-2018, 11:10 PM
Jury is still out for me, but right now this is a thread I can support.

BigBeauford
12-23-2018, 11:10 PM
I think this whole draft could be abust outside of Nandi.

Pushead2
12-23-2018, 11:11 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If I ran the Chiefs Iíd fire Bob Sutton about 18 months ago.</p>&mdash; Heath Cummings (@heathcummingssr) <a href="https://twitter.com/heathcummingssr/status/1077063931913490433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

O.city
12-23-2018, 11:11 PM
Hitchens was good in Dallas, then comes here and sucks

That’s coaching

dirk digler
12-23-2018, 11:14 PM
Yup Reid gets this post season and next then he can GTFO

You ever watch those videos of Reid in the locker room after the game? When he does the What about those Chiefs saying Clark is in the front row with starry eyes and is acting like he is back in high school.

I guess what I am trying to say is I think Reid is here until he doesn't want to be.

Flying High D
12-23-2018, 11:15 PM
Maybe Hitchens should of brought the other 10 starters from Dallas with him, then maybe he wouldn’t suck now. He was covered in that defense.

RunKC
12-23-2018, 11:20 PM
Dude. We ran cover 1 man EVERY ****ING PLAY. It wasnít even a question. The 2nd half was all single high press man. Itís too ****ing easy.

Same shit he has done for years.

Itís the players too dude. Perfect defensive call on 3rd and 17 and both Tremon Smith and Anthony Hitchens miss easy tackles and Seattle converts.

Unbelievably bad players.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:21 PM
Hitchens was also lining up with several other good LB's...

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:21 PM
Draft aside which I'm not buying that excuse dude made Hitchens one of the most highest paid players in the league.

Dont forget he traded up for Speaks and Naughty.

Didnt think we needed to draft a CB, could have drafted an ILB and got the same if not better production as Hitchens and could have used that money on Bashaud Breeland. Clinton-Dix was traded for a fucking 4th rounder and Im sure we could have come up with something to match that. Eli Apple would have been nice as well, but Veach thought his scrap heap back field needed help.

The guy is a fucking goon.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:21 PM
Itís the players too dude. Perfect defensive call on 3rd and 17 and both Tremon Smith and Anthony Hitchens miss easy tackles and Seattle converts.

Unbelievably bad players.

How do you feel about that contract Veach gave Hitchens?

Superturtle
12-23-2018, 11:21 PM
Itís the players too dude. Perfect defensive call on 3rd and 17 and both Tremon Smith and Anthony Hitchens miss easy tackles and Seattle converts.

Unbelievably bad players.
You've called soft zone on 3rd and long and these guys have fucked it up how many times now? That's literal insanity by Sutton.

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:24 PM
Good teams find competent starting players outside of the first round..

This team does lack talent on defense yet they have a bunch of highly paid guys who don't get the job done and they play stupid.

When the whole team looks like that it's on everyone.

Dorsey and Sutton made Mitchell look like a #2 CB

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:26 PM
Itís the players too dude. Perfect defensive call on 3rd and 17 and both Tremon Smith and Anthony Hitchens miss easy tackles and Seattle converts.

Unbelievably bad players.

Yep, Bobby is just a scape goat. Its easier to replace one guy (Sutton) then it is to man up and replace a bunch of shitty players. As if getting a new D coordinator will make this D adequate. It wont. Its not like Sutton has just been a complete failure. He has had alot of success in his time here.

Deberg_1990
12-23-2018, 11:27 PM
Who should the Chiefs have drafted instead of Speaks? Any impact guys drafted right after him?

pugsnotdrugs19
12-23-2018, 11:30 PM
Yep, Bobby is just a scape goat. Its easier to replace one guy (Sutton) then it is to man up and replace a bunch of shitty players. As if getting a new D coordinator will make this D adequate. It wont. Its not like Sutton has just been a complete failure. He has had alot of success in his time here.

Who the fuck wouldnít have success with the talent they had early in his tenure?

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:32 PM
Who should the Chiefs have drafted instead of Speaks? Any impact guys drafted right after him?

How about Jessie Bates or Donte Jackson they went after Speaks. Justin Reid...all these guys are starters.

Bump
12-23-2018, 11:32 PM
I still never really understood why Dorsey left us, I miss him.

dannybcaitlyn
12-23-2018, 11:33 PM
Iíll give him a pass this year. Dorseyís first draft sucked also! Iíll judge him next year with his own team of scouts.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:34 PM
Iíll give him a pass this year. Dorseyís first draft sucked also! Iíll judge him next year with his own team of scouts.

He got 2 starters that are still starting right now out of that draft, will Veach get a best player in the league at his position out of this draft cause that's the bar.

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:35 PM
Who should the Chiefs have drafted instead of Speaks? Any impact guys drafted right after him?

Eddie Jackson or Donte Jackson and signed Prince.

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:36 PM
Iíll give him a pass this year. Dorseyís first draft sucked also! Iíll judge him next year with his own team of scouts.

2 of Dorsey's picks are in the pro bowl this year and 1 is the best in the league at his position

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:36 PM
I still never really understood why Dorsey left us, I miss him.

I called into 810 and asked this. They ignored it.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:37 PM
Da'Shawn Hand went in the 4th round and he's a better DT than Nnadi, Snacks Harrison was traded for nothing...

There were options.

O.city
12-23-2018, 11:38 PM
2 of Dorsey's picks are in the pro bowl this year and 1 is the best in the league at his position

He had the first overall pick in each round.

No shit they were better

MVChiefFan
12-23-2018, 11:38 PM
Yep, Bobby is just a scape goat. Its easier to replace one guy (Sutton) then it is to man up and replace a bunch of shitty players. As if getting a new D coordinator will make this D adequate. It wont. Its not like Sutton has just been a complete failure. He has had alot of success in his time here.

All I need to mention is the Colts playoff game four hears ago. But, Iíll also mention that Suttonís defense in New York sucked and the year after they fired him, they were a top D. Iím not saying we donít have some sucky players, but in my opinion, it starts with getting rid of Grandpa Bob. Heís always failed.

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:41 PM
All I need to mention is the Colts playoff game four hears ago. But, Iíll also mention that Suttonís defense in New York sucked and the year after they fired him, they were a top D. Iím not saying we donít have some sucky players, but in my opinion, it starts with getting rid of Grandpa Bob. Heís always failed.

Hard to blame Sutty in that game. Flowers got hurt, Houston and Hali got hurt. Chiefs had a 4 td lead Reid kept throwing it.

Mecca
12-23-2018, 11:41 PM
He had the first overall pick in each round.

No shit they were better

Let's not mention it was the worst draft in like a 15 year period for the league.

dlphg9
12-23-2018, 11:46 PM
All I need to mention is the Colts playoff game four hears ago. But, Iíll also mention that Suttonís defense in New York sucked and the year after they fired him, they were a top D. Iím not saying we donít have some sucky players, but in my opinion, it starts with getting rid of Grandpa Bob. Heís always failed.

I agree Bobby needs to go, but some people act like evwrything is his fault and that this D would be good with a different coordonator

MVChiefFan
12-23-2018, 11:47 PM
Hard to blame Sutty in that game. Flowers got hurt, Houston and Hali got hurt. Chiefs had a 4 td lead Reid kept throwing it.

Youíre right, we had some major injuries. But, the point is, any D-Coordinator worth his salt should have been able to find a way to hold a 28 point lead. He has a history of letting offenses walk all over him. Whether we need a massive shot of defensive talent or not, I just donít understand how anyone can defend him at this point.

Bump
12-23-2018, 11:48 PM
Eddie Jackson or Donte Jackson and signed Prince.

Eddie Jackson is quite good, RIP that pick

Titty Meat
12-23-2018, 11:53 PM
Eddie Jackson is quite good, RIP that pick

Seattle's punter is a future HOFr idk how much we would have saved drafting him and letting Culquitt go. Anyway didnt we use that pick to trade up for fat ass?

MVChiefFan
12-23-2018, 11:54 PM
I agree Bobby needs to go, but some people act like evwrything is his fault and that this D would be good with a different coordonator

Yeah, some of the issues definitely fall on the talent. I just think it needs to start with him. If for nothing else but a change in philosophy.

RunKC
12-24-2018, 12:37 PM
Boy is Billay one dumb sonofabitch LMAO

How about Dorsey’s first pick getting his asshole torn to shreds last night? How about his draft picks Steven Nelson and Eric Murray being a disaster? How about his handpicked safety Ron Parker or Daniel Sorenson? How they looking Billay? Oh and how is Tanoh doing? What about his character evaluations for Peters and Hunt?

This mother****er drafted KeiVarae Russell and cut him 3 months later.

JFC you will do anything to suck Dorsey’s dick won’t you?

“Veach can’t fix ILB or secondary.” Please tell me what the **** Dorsey did to fix it before he got canned?

Enough of this draft bullshit. The 2016 draft was supposed to help this secondary and ALL of them sucked.

mcaj22
12-24-2018, 12:41 PM
Hitchens makes Bobby Wagner money and it was night and day watching those two play last night. Wagner does literally everything for the Seahawks.

Hitchens and Berry have the two worst contracts in football and its not close.

Buckweath
12-24-2018, 12:50 PM
Dorsey is a Boss. No doubt for me. A top GM in this league.

I will give Veach two more offseasons but yeah I cannot say I am impressed so far but I think he is a good one too.

He has to hit it out of the park this offseason. No excuses.

Titty Meat
12-24-2018, 12:53 PM
Boy is Billay one dumb sonofabitch LMAO

How about Dorseyís first pick getting his asshole torn to shreds last night? How about his draft picks Steven Nelson and Eric Murray being a disaster? How about his handpicked safety Ron Parker or Daniel Sorenson? How they looking Billay? Oh and how is Tanoh doing? What about his character evaluations for Peters and Hunt?

This mother****er drafted KeiVarae Russell and cut him 3 months later.

JFC you will do anything to suck Dorseyís dick wonít you?

ďVeach canít fix ILB or secondary.Ē Please tell me what the **** Dorsey did to fix it before he got canned?

Enough of this draft bullshit. The 2016 draft was supposed to help this secondary and ALL of them sucked.

Stupid post

RunKC
12-24-2018, 12:56 PM
Dorsey is a Boss. No doubt for me. A top GM in this league.

I will give Veach two more offseasons but yeah I cannot say I am impressed so far but I think he is a good one too.

He has to hit it out of the park this offseason. No excuses.

It’s still too early to give a final grade to Veach, even with how frustrating he’s been so far.

He’s had one draft and free agency. At this point in Dorsey’s tenure, Kelce hadn’t played a down, Fisher was enemy numero uno and everyone declared his first offseason a disaster.

I agree this Spring needs to be good. It will be his defining offseason IMO.

mcaj22
12-24-2018, 01:03 PM
Itís still too early to give a final grade to Veach, even with how frustrating heís been so far.

Heís had one draft and free agency. At this point in Dorseyís tenure, Kelce hadnít played and down, Fisher was enemy numero uno and everyone declared his first offseason a disaster.

Yea but there was some other things you are leaving out that helped buoye those decisions that werent working out in Dorseys first season.

He also had the infamous scrap heap/dumpster dive waiver wire 7. Jaye Howard, Ron Parker and dem boys. He also signed a bunch of crafty vets cheap like Hussain Abdullah that immediately helped turn this franchise around. He hit on depth, scrap heap finds and cheap vets which helped cover his Fisher and Kelce issues.

That is not happening anymore. They arent hitting on scrap heap finds, they arent getting scrappy cheap vets that outperform their cheap prove it deal. They are overpaying FAs, making big splashes for luxory items, bringing back former guys who they cut/released who are toast (Parker,Allen,West, etc). They are basically doing the opposite ontop of their major issues. So theres nothing good you can even say now except "Mahomes"

chiefzilla1501
12-24-2018, 01:08 PM
I'm not convinced that veach had much choice with Sutton. Or that each of these D players couldn't shine in a new scheme. But yeah... So far, very underwhelming. Meanwhile Dorsey is probably in line for exec of the year. And it's not just because he had the #1 pick. He absolutely crushed the draft. Easily the most weeks of any team with a rookie of the week winner.

RunKC
12-24-2018, 01:14 PM
We didn’t lose out bc of Dorsey. We should have kept Chris Ballard.

Look at his 2 drafts in Indy. He’s crushed them and knows what he’s doing. That guy knows how to find talent.

Chief Northman
12-24-2018, 01:17 PM
We didnít lose out bc of Dorsey. We should have kept Chris Ballard.

Look at his 2 drafts in Indy. Heís crushed them and knows what heís doing. That guy knows how to find talent.

Hold your horses.

Way easier to make picks when you have many, and always at the top of each round.

Buckweath
12-24-2018, 01:20 PM
Itís still too early to give a final grade to Veach, even with how frustrating heís been so far.

Heís had one draft and free agency. At this point in Dorseyís tenure, Kelce hadnít played a down, Fisher was enemy numero uno and everyone declared his first offseason a disaster.

I agree this Spring needs to be good. It will be his defining offseason IMO.
You are aware that this team went from 2-14 to 11-5 during Dorsey's and Reid's first year in charge, right?

Maybe Dorsey's first draft had not produced yet but he had already gotten good players via FA and sure being 1st for the waiver wire helped.

It was a different situation really.

chiefzilla1501
12-24-2018, 01:24 PM
We didnít lose out bc of Dorsey. We should have kept Chris Ballard.

Look at his 2 drafts in Indy. Heís crushed them and knows what heís doing. That guy knows how to find talent.

Dorsey crushed his first draft.

RunKC
12-24-2018, 01:27 PM
Hold your horses.

Way easier to make picks when you have many, and always at the top of each round.

Look closer.

Anthony Walker was a 5th rd pick and he is an awesome LB. People questioned him picking Darius Leonard and that turns out great. Kemeko Turray was taken after Breeland Speaks and he has 4 sacks as a part time player.

His FA pick ups have been money too. Pierre Desir has been a decent corner, Margus Hunt has 5 sacks, Jabaal Sheard has 5.5 sacks.

He’s been so good.

KChiefs1
12-24-2018, 02:15 PM
KPassa & Speaks are failed 2nd round picks.

Halfcan
12-24-2018, 04:56 PM
Veech needs to stop picking projects with our 2nd round picks.

chiefzilla1501
12-24-2018, 05:11 PM
You are aware that this team went from 2-14 to 11-5 during Dorsey's and Reid's first year in charge, right?

Maybe Dorsey's first draft had not produced yet but he had already gotten good players via FA and sure being 1st for the waiver wire helped.

It was a different situation really.

And then Dorsey did it again in Cleveland. Had haslem not forced hue Jackson on him, browns would have made the playoffs. Dorsey had one hell of an offseason. Both Dorsey and Ballard have been nails. Veach had better be too.

Easy 6
12-24-2018, 05:48 PM
While I'm still a good ways off from wanting to donate money for a flying banner calling for his firing... its definitely fair to say that the shine is off this guy, the honeymoons over etc etc etc

He gets credit for pushing Mahomes during the draft, and for going after Earl Thomas... but beyond that his decisions have been highly questionable

To have a decidedly defensive draft and free agency that hasnt really produced shit so far is a very bad look indeed

He damn well better nail some shit to the wall in 2019

dj56dt58
12-24-2018, 05:58 PM
dont forget taking West over CJ

dj56dt58
12-24-2018, 06:05 PM
I dont think Sutton is good, but hes not the reason the D sucks. People blame coordinators too much. Im sure hed be better with a few good corners and less broke dicks.

If we swapped defensive players with the Ravens where to you think we would be ranked? My guess is pretty close to last still. Sutton sucks

Easy 6
12-24-2018, 06:09 PM
KPassa & Speaks are failed 2nd round picks.

I'm not sure thats been proven true yet

Speaks is a perhaps miscast, overweight rookie... and Kpass was a known project who has flashed some, and was then apparently taken out to the country and dumped off like a dog with no explanation given

RunKC
12-24-2018, 06:11 PM
KPassa & Speaks are failed 2nd round picks.

Itís weird as hell to me that people bitch about Veach when Dorsey did this same shit.

Ford was basically redshirted year 1 and used an insurance for Tamba retiring. Did Veach not use a pick on Speaks for the same reason?

Red Dawg2
12-24-2018, 06:29 PM
I cant argue. What he's done has been crap.

Red Dawg2
12-24-2018, 06:35 PM
KPassa & Speaks are failed 2nd round picks.

We don't know that yet.

Chris Meck
12-24-2018, 06:38 PM
I'm not sure thats been proven true yet

Speaks is a perhaps miscast, overweight rookie... and Kpass was a known project who has flashed some, and was then apparently taken out to the country and dumped off like a dog with no explanation given

I think both are physically miscast at OLB. The days of the hulking Levon Kirkland type OLB's is over. You need LB's that can cover now.

I think either fit better as 4-3 DE's and should be in the rotation for that next year, when we transition back to a 4-3 with our new Defensive coordinator, Ben Bloom. :)

GloucesterChief
12-24-2018, 06:40 PM
I think both are physically miscast at OLB. The days of the hulking Levon Kirkland type OLB's is over. You need LB's that can cover now.

I think either fit better as 4-3 DE's and should be in the rotation for that next year, when we transition back to a 4-3 with our new Defensive coordinator, Ben Bloom. :)

Sutton will be back next year as Andy never fires anybody. It is one of his glaring weaknesses as a coach.

Easy 6
12-24-2018, 06:44 PM
I think both are physically miscast at OLB. The days of the hulking Levon Kirkland type OLB's is over. You need LB's that can cover now.

I think either fit better as 4-3 DE's and should be in the rotation for that next year, when we transition back to a 4-3 with our new Defensive coordinator, Ben Bloom. :)

I've been wide open to the idea of a 43 for a looong time, its an idea thats been gaining steam around here for 2-3 years now

But as for Kpass, its no safe bet he'll be here in 2019 IMO... based on his current MIA status

RealSNR
12-25-2018, 12:16 AM
He was just sooo aggressive in moving up to grab HIS guys, and his guys were pretty WTF picks.

All offseason all we heard was, "Veach is aggressive... he's going to get his guys and make lots of moves." And he did, but god damn... THOSE were the guys you were so fucking desperate to draft? Breeland fucking Speaks was that guy?

Like, if you have no poker face, and you make an aggressive move, it's probably because you have a guy so highly ranked above the other players on the board that you almost don't have a legitimate backup plan if you don't get him. The Breeland Speaks pick to me shows recklessness. Veach liked him, and regardless of the other guys his scouts showed him, that was just going to be the fucking pick and go fuck yourself.

You can do that when you're not the lead guy making the decisions. When you're director of college scouting or whatever the fuck he was, yeah, you can go up to Reid and dickslap him repeatedly until he looks at the film on Fletcher Cox and Patrick Mahomes. You're making your case. But being in charge is different from just saying, "THAT'S MY GUY!" You have to take a far more balanced approach to decision making.

What this offseason looks like to me is that Veach lacks a ton of patience as a GM. He's young and pretty fucking inexperienced, and he's never been in that kind of leadership role in an organization or had much time to work under a guy who knew what he was doing (like Dorsey did).

Dorsey mismanaged the cap? Yeah, he wasn't the greatest, but compared to Veach, Dorsey is as big of a cheap asshole as Bill Belichick.

RealSNR
12-25-2018, 12:23 AM
Veach's draft reminds me of Carl/Vermeil/whoever the hell was running the draft in those years. I'm anticipating more 2nd round picks that made you scream "FUCKING WHO?" at the television. Kris Wilson. Kawicka Mitchell.

Like, I'm not saying Mel/McShay/Mayock are draft gods, but when we're talking the top 64 players in a draft class, there should be SOME general overlap. When your 2nd round pick is completely out of left fucking field, you can say all you want, "Well, that's why those guys don't run NFL teams!" but it also means you're banking on the less common occurrence that those guys just overlooked something entirely about a player. After all, we're talking the top 64 players. No draft board is the gonna be the same, but if yours is WAAAAY different from the rest of the pack... well, it better damn well be right.

The Vermeil drafts were never lined up with players expected to go in that range. And spoiler alert: other than Jared Allen, who nobody knew about but was drafted in the 4th round, all of those guys sucked fucking DICK.

dlphg9
12-25-2018, 12:40 AM
He was just sooo aggressive in moving up to grab HIS guys, and his guys were pretty WTF picks.

All offseason all we heard was, "Veach is aggressive... he's going to get his guys and make lots of moves." And he did, but god damn... THOSE were the guys you were so ****ing desperate to draft? Breeland ****ing Speaks was that guy?

Like, if you have no poker face, and you make an aggressive move, it's probably because you have a guy so highly ranked above the other players on the board that you almost don't have a legitimate backup plan if you don't get him. The Breeland Speaks pick to me shows recklessness. Veach liked him, and regardless of the other guys his scouts showed him, that was just going to be the ****ing pick and go **** yourself.

You can do that when you're not the lead guy making the decisions. When you're director of college scouting or whatever the **** he was, yeah, you can go up to Reid and dickslap him repeatedly until he looks at the film on Fletcher Cox and Patrick Mahomes. You're making your case. But being in charge is different from just saying, "THAT'S MY GUY!" You have to take a far more balanced approach to decision making.

What this offseason looks like to me is that Veach lacks a ton of patience as a GM. He's young and pretty ****ing inexperienced, and he's never been in that kind of leadership role in an organization or had much time to work under a guy who knew what he was doing (like Dorsey did).

Dorsey mismanaged the cap? Yeah, he wasn't the greatest, but compared to Veach, Dorsey is as big of a cheap asshole as Bill Belichick.

Yep, hes the type of guy thats always right and smarter than everyone else in the room. Guys in charge have to take advice from the guys under them or those people probably wont stay around long.

I know its in your next post, but Kris "Secret Weapon" Wilson. What a joke of a pick. He was hyped up so much by the media and organization lol.

tk13
12-25-2018, 12:57 AM
Fun fact: we have more Vermeil era draft picks on this team than Herm era draft picks.

Vermeil's first draft was horrendous. They had a couple hits. Larry Johnson was 100% Carl. Allen was obviously the best player. Derrick Johnson obviously had a nice career. Fujita actually had a decent career too. He ended up being a starter on a Super Bowl winning defense. The problem was that was it, they didn't even really find successful backup type players for depth, let alone starters.

Pioli's first draft was pretty brutal too. Only real success out of that was Tyson Jackson and Succop.

arrowheadnation
12-25-2018, 01:06 AM
And the biggest mistake he made in my eyes is not doing anything at the trade deadline to try and fix this bullshit.

PAChiefsGuy
12-25-2018, 04:04 AM
You may be right but I am willing to give him 1 more off season. And let's be honest though he is Reid's hand picked GM.

I agree with this. As bad as Veach has been it's too early to fire him. Have to give him more time. But so far, he's sucked... Unlike most here I think Veach is the main reason the defense sucks, not Sutton.

I'd also like to say there is no reason Dorsey should have gotten fired. One of the reasons this franchise has gone so many years without winning a SB is cause of idiotic moves like that. I know the blind Chief fans will support anything Hunt does but the Dorsey firing was a fucking terrible move.

Chargem
12-25-2018, 06:04 AM
I know you can do this every draft, but if the Chiefs had taken Jessie Bates in the 2nd and then Maurice Hurst in the 4th, I think the defense would look so much better now and I'd be so much more optimistic about next year with just having holes to fill at corner and line backer.

I don't blame Veach for not going after a mid season trade. They expected the defense to be a two year fix, and this year has been a bit of a surprise with how good Mahomes has been in his first year. No one expected an MVP candidate. Maybe next year, if the defense gets addressed in the draft and looks to be around league average, I can see Veach going after that 1 guy mid season who maybe puts the Chiefs over the top, but one Eli Apple or Haha Clinton Dix wasn't going to fix the defense this year, so you may as well keep the picks.

RealSNR
12-25-2018, 07:05 AM
Somebody posted a rumor on here that we were possibly interested in bringing aboard Louis Riddick as GM. Maybe we tried to get him and he declined because he enjoyed his cushy job at ESPN much more or something.

But man, that would have been a freakin sweet hire.

RealSNR
12-25-2018, 07:11 AM
I know you can do this every draft, but if the Chiefs had taken Jessie Bates in the 2nd and then Maurice Hurst in the 4th, I think the defense would look so much better now and I'd be so much more optimistic about next year with just having holes to fill at corner and line backer.

I don't blame Veach for not going after a mid season trade. They expected the defense to be a two year fix, and this year has been a bit of a surprise with how good Mahomes has been in his first year. No one expected an MVP candidate. Maybe next year, if the defense gets addressed in the draft and looks to be around league average, I can see Veach going after that 1 guy mid season who maybe puts the Chiefs over the top, but one Eli Apple or Haha Clinton Dix wasn't going to fix the defense this year, so you may as well keep the picks.

Here's another issue, though.

The broadcasters during the Ravens/Chargers game were talking about Martindale's defense and how he kind of rebuilt it himself by simplifying it so rookies and young guys could earn more snaps (or potentially even start) very early on in their careers.

2018 was a draft class of nearly 100% defense. Why the hell did it take so long for Sutton/Reid to put those guys on the field? If it's because it takes time to figure out the responsibilities in Sutton's defense, then that means you've got a horse fucking shit defensive scheme for rebuilding.

Sutton's been fielding a run defense ranked in the 20s or lower for HOW long now, and every year he fucking changes nothing. It makes zero sense.

Chiefs Moon
12-25-2018, 08:00 AM
Can't properly judge Veach until Sutton is fired and a competent D coordinator is brought on board. That being said, Veach didn't have a good first draft. Beyond that, the Chiefs need to hire a scout/talent evaluator whose expertise is defense.

oldman
12-25-2018, 08:44 AM
And the biggest mistake he made in my eyes is not doing anything at the trade deadline to try and fix this bullshit.

You can't trade for a guy with a broken leg. You can't trade with a team that won't give up a star player.

TwistedChief
12-25-2018, 09:04 AM
You can't trade for a guy with a broken leg. You can't trade with a team that won't give up a star player.

Landon Collins. Janoris Jenkins. HaHa Clinton-Dix. Eli Apple.

Ample evidence at the time the first two were available. The second two were actually traded. At a minimum Jenkins and Apple would've given us some CB depth and Collins and Dix could've kept some of our safeties off the field.

Too many people here were thrilled we didn't give up valued draft picks at the deadline. It was maddening.

oldman
12-25-2018, 09:53 AM
The Giants weren't going to give up Collins, period. Clinton-Dix is a rental for Washington. Jenkins might have been too expensive ($14.75M for each of the next 2 years). We don't need any more cap problems. I'll give you Apple.
I'm not saying Veatch shouldn't have been more aggressive, but I believe there were circumstances (Berry's return) that might have played a part in negotiations with other teams. We're going to have PMII for at least 3 more years, so I just don't see any reason to call for Veatch's head ---- yet. Now Sutton's head is a different story.

Titty Meat
12-25-2018, 10:02 AM
Somebody posted a rumor on here that we were possibly interested in bringing aboard Louis Riddick as GM. Maybe we tried to get him and he declined because he enjoyed his cushy job at ESPN much more or something.

But man, that would have been a freakin sweet hire.

We should try again if Veach fucks up this next draft

oldman
12-25-2018, 10:09 AM
At what point do you say he screwed up? Did that occur because he didn't draft the guy you wanted? Is it because the guy he did draft isn't a rookie all-pro? I'm not going to say he didn't, but the jury is still out on Watts, DOD, Nnadi, and Speaks. Given the right defense (and DC), I think a couple of these guys might be real finds.

TwistedChief
12-25-2018, 10:12 AM
I think it's too early to say Veach sucks and should be removed. But I don't think it's too early to have some real reservations.

I think after next season we'll have a much better sample size upon which to grade him.

NJChiefsFan
12-25-2018, 10:28 AM
Somebody posted a rumor on here that we were possibly interested in bringing aboard Louis Riddick as GM. Maybe we tried to get him and he declined because he enjoyed his cushy job at ESPN much more or something.

But man, that would have been a freakin sweet hire.

Interesting. Riddick was the biggest Mahomes fanboy before the season even started.

TEX
12-25-2018, 10:53 AM
I think it's too early to say Veach sucks and should be removed. But I don't think it's too early to have some real reservations.

I think after next season we'll have a much better sample size upon which to grade him.

True. No such thing can be said of Ballard though - and that's the worst part of it. When Dorsey was fired, we had already lost Ballard. If CHunt had even the slightest notion that Dorsey's contract would not be renewed, he should have got out way
ahead of it and retained Ballard.

RINGLEADER
12-25-2018, 11:01 AM
Somebody posted a rumor on here that we were possibly interested in bringing aboard Louis Riddick as GM. Maybe we tried to get him and he declined because he enjoyed his cushy job at ESPN much more or something.

But man, that would have been a freakin sweet hire.

Anyone who thinks Veach is going anywhere hasnít been paying attention. Reid is the guy picking the GM. And we know how frequently Reid fires people. Dorsey has proven to be one of the best GMs in the business. ReidVeach? Not so much, but letís see if they completely whiff on the next draft before giving them a grade.

I did enjoy all the mid-season ďVeach is the reason we got MahomesĒ stories ó if you believe them I guess he gets some credit there but they always seemed like they were heaping credit on Veach for a pick that Dorsey actually made.

RINGLEADER
12-25-2018, 11:09 AM
At what point do you say he screwed up? Did that occur because he didn't draft the guy you wanted? Is it because the guy he did draft isn't a rookie all-pro? I'm not going to say he didn't, but the jury is still out on Watts, DOD, Nnadi, and Speaks. Given the right defense (and DC), I think a couple of these guys might be real finds.

This could be truth too.

Our scheme really sucks and the execution of that bad scheme is even worse.

I gotta think with this offense we could attract a lot of real talent to the DC position.

beach tribe
12-25-2018, 12:04 PM
I truly believe that if Dorsey was still the GM we would be fielding a much better defense

BryanBusby
12-25-2018, 12:13 PM
Debatable. Who drafted turds like Russell, Eric Murray and Kpass? Dorsey.

Buckweath
12-25-2018, 12:15 PM
I truly believe that if Dorsey was still the GM we would be fielding a much better defense

It is funny to see the fans turning on Dorsey and then realizing he was maybe not so bad after all.

He was always a top GM IMO.

I am not sure Veach is any worse but we have yet to see it.

Buckweath
12-25-2018, 12:16 PM
Debatable. Who drafted turds like Russell, Eric Murray and Kpass? Dorsey.

Oh please dont get me started on how great Dorsey has been at drafting.

Arguably the very best in the league at drafting during his Chiefs tenure.

OKchiefs
12-25-2018, 01:05 PM
Debatable. Who drafted turds like Russell, Eric Murray and Kpass? Dorsey.

This. He couldn't draft for shit on defense either.

RunKC
12-25-2018, 01:17 PM
I truly believe that if Dorsey was still the GM we would be fielding a much better defense

Nope.

Dee Ford and Chris Jones were the only good players he drafted on defense aside from the raging lunatic known as Peters.

He failed over and over and over at ILB and the entire secondary for 5 years.

He was very similar to Pioli in terms of drafting.

chiefzilla1501
12-25-2018, 01:28 PM
Nope.

Dee Ford and Chris Jones were the only good players he drafted on defense aside from the raging lunatic known as Peters.

He failed over and over and over at ILB and the entire secondary for 5 years.

He was very similar to Pioli in terms of drafting.

We drafted a shitload of people on defense during Dorseyís time. Watching veterans play like dunces makes me believe both veach and Dorsey are limited by shopping for groceries for a head chef who has no idea what the fuck to cook. I still think several of our players would play better with a better dc.

chiefzilla1501
12-25-2018, 01:34 PM
This. He couldn't draft for shit on defense either.

And yet in his first year with the browns Dorsey landed a stud corner, two quality safeties, and a solid pass rusher. While barely spending any money. Amazing how he suddenly knows defense now that he's paired with Gregg Williams.

Easy 6
12-25-2018, 01:35 PM
Nope.

Dee Ford and Chris Jones were the only good players he drafted on defense aside from the raging lunatic known as Peters.

He failed over and over and over at ILB and the entire secondary for 5 years.

He was very similar to Pioli in terms of drafting.

He didnt draft secondary all that well, but did a great job with scrap heap pickups like Coleman, Abdullah, Parker was good for a while, etc etc

Deberg_1990
12-25-2018, 01:40 PM
Wasn’t Veach the guy who scouted Mahomes and was his biggest cheerleader before the draft?

Tribal Warfare
12-25-2018, 01:50 PM
Wasnít Veach the guy who scouted Mahomes and was his biggest cheerleader before the draft?

Correct, because of this Veach's tenure with the Chiefs will be tethered to PMII's success.

If Mahomes goes full KILL_SCREEN_ and breaks NFL scoreboards and Championships to his will then Brett will be with KC as long as Carl or until he retires.