The offense is not the same without Kareem Hunt

[BandwagonChiefsFan]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chiefs-lose-seahawks-havent-team-since-cutting-kareem-hunt-044526795.html

[comochiefsfan]

Right.

The defense has been allowing 30 points all season. It's just that the offense was scoring 40.

Now that we aren't putting up astronomical numbers on offense, we're getting beat.

[DaFace]

And Sammy. But yeah. Losing Hunt killed the season.

[Deberg_1990]

d Williams had 141 all purpose tonight

[In58men]

I think we’ve been scoring just fine, am I missing something?


Time to move on from Hunt. He’s gone now. Bye Felicia.

[O.city]

Killed the season? Nah

The season was probably doa with the defense being as bad as it’s been. Seriously, I’m a passing league they’re elite at rushing the passer and still suck this bad

[Iowanian]

Hunt is gone.....but ware going down hurt. Watkins is down and makes a difference, the guards are playing like shit and imo Morse has been a turn since he returned. Most of those things coincide with hunt leaving.

The Chiefs also scored 31 on the road in Seattle.

If that's bad and wrong....I don't want the offense to be right.

[NJChiefsFan]

We have played 3 really good defenses in a row. And scored on all of them. We also had Watkins while Hunt was here. This offense is still scoring 28 plus against great defenses. Not sure that's the issue.

[ThaVirus]

The sample size of games without Hunt is too small to come to any strong conclusion.

We miss Hunt as far as ball security is concerned and perhaps a little bit of game-clinching potential in our 4-minute offense, but we haven't been losing games because we lost Hunt.

[O.city]

Watkins hurts just as bad. No one else can win outside

[prhom]

We landed on the moon!.gif

['Hamas' Jenkins]

150+ yards from scrimmage from the backs since Hunt released himself.

[TEX]

Killed the season? Nah

The season was probably doa with the defense being as bad as it’s been. Seriously, I’m a passing league they’re elite at rushing the passer and still suck this bad

Yep.

[Bump]

Hunt was a top 3 running back that NEVER fumbles and made big plays. Ya, that hurt. He fucked us by being violent.

[TEX]

Right.

The defense has been allowing 30 points all season. It's just that the offense was scoring 40.

Now that we aren't putting up astronomical numbers on offense, we're getting beat.

Agreed.

[prhom]

We have played 3 really good defenses in a row. And scored on all of them. We also had Watkins while Hunt was here. This offense is still scoring 28 plus against great defenses. Not sure that's the issue.

Scoring isn’t all of the problem, we can’t control the game with running anymore. That’s the problem. Scoring is only a symptom of this lack of control.

[EPodolak]

Don't know what his loss did to the organization emotionally, possibly faltering through the grief of losing a close comrade.

[MeatRock]

People seem to forget just how dynamic Hunt was in the passing game. Ware and Williams can't sniff Hunts jock in the speed and route running department.

Hunt ran a fucking post route for a TD earlier in the year.

[Imon Yourside]

Only reason I can say we miss him is ball security, other than that RB isn't the problem.

[FloridaMan88]

Obviously the offense is not as good when you take away one of the most dynamic offensive players (not just RB’s) in the league.

What is the point in stating the obvious.

[Chiefshrink]

I think we’ve been scoring just fine, am I missing something?


Time to move on from Hunt. He’s gone now. Bye Felicia.

Exactly. Damien Williams has a quicker burst to the hole and is every bit as strong of a runner with the same hands for catching the ball out of the backfield as Hunt.

Not having Watkins is more of a hinderance than anything because defenses can more easily double up on Kelce/Hill depending.

[NJChiefsFan]

Scoring isn’t all of the problem, we can’t control the game with running anymore. That’s the problem. Scoring is only a symptom of this lack of control.

As far as tonight goes the only time we couldn't run the ball was when we chose not to try. They dared Andy to stay patient with the run and he couldn't do it.

[Mahomer]

Hunt had to be schemed against by opposing defenses. Its no wonder defenses are looking better against Mahomes lately with one extra weapon that they dont have to account for. Hunt was huge in the passing game, blocking, and making big plays. JUst his threat alone made this offense easier for Mahomes. A gigantic blow, way more than Watkins, although missing Watkins is bad as well.

[Chris Meck]

Hunt had to be schemed against by opposing defenses. Its no wonder defenses are looking better against Mahomes lately with one extra weapon that they dont have to account for. Hunt was huge in the passing game, blocking, and making big plays. JUst his threat alone made this offense easier for Mahomes. A gigantic blow, way more than Watkins, although missing Watkins is bad as well.

it ain't Hunt not being there, it's Watkins.

[MeatRock]

Hunt still has the most TD's on the team at 14, but yet the Chiefs don't miss Hunt. Sure!!! Ok.

[Mecca]

Exactly. Damien Williams has a quicker burst to the hole and is every bit as strong of a runner with the same hands for catching the ball out of the backfield as Hunt.

Not having Watkins is more of a hinderance than anything because defenses can more easily double up on Kelce/Hill depending.

He is in no way just as strong and his balance isn't half what Hunt's is.

[Chiefshrink]

As far as tonight goes the only time we couldn't run the ball was when we chose not to try. They dared Andy to stay patient with the run and he couldn't do it.

AR couldn't do it because he knows his defense is that bad so he passed more.

[lcarus]

Only reason I can say we miss him is ball security, other than that RB isn't the problem.

Agreed. Other than the horrid fumble by Williams, he played an awesome game.

[JakeF]

Missing Sammy Watkins is really hurting us too. Defenses just don't respect Conley or Robinson enough free up Kelce and Hill like Watkins does.

[Chiefshrink]

He is in no way just as strong and his balance isn't half what Hunt's is.

You do not have football eyes my friend. He ran over several defenders tonight and he is tough to bring down not mention much quicker burst to the hole with much quicker feet to change direction hitting the seams and you saw that tonight with several really good runs. Watkins is more of a hinderance being out than Hunt IMHO because it makes it much easier to double either Kelce/Hill depending. And we also saw tonight why KB is KB and why he is not with the Bills. Dropping a pass right in his mittens in the end zone:rolleyes:

[MeatRock]

You do not have football eyes my friend. He ran over several defenders tonight and he is tough to bring down not mention much quicker burst to the hole with much quicker feet to change direction hitting the seams and you saw that tonight with several really good runs. Watkins is more of a hinderance being out than Hunt IMHO because it makes it much easier to double either Kelce/Hill depending. And we also saw tonight why KB is KB and why he is not with the Bills. Dropping a pass right in his mittens in the end zone:rolleyes:

You're so full of shit!

[Imon Yourside]

I am 100% sure Kareem Hunt is not the same without this offense.

[Chiefshrink]

it ain't Hunt not being there, it's Watkins.

Exactly !!

[Chiefshrink]

You're so full of shit!

You do not have football eyes and probably never played the game.:rolleyes:

[MeatRock]

You do not have football eyes and probably never played the game.:rolleyes:

ROFL ok guy. You sure pegged me there.

[JakeF]

Watkins hurts just as bad. No one else can win outside
That's it, that's the difference.

Watkins winning outside frees up Kelce and Hill. The extra weapon doesn't allow defenses to double Kelce and Hill without killing the rest of their coverage.

[Chiefshrink]

I am 100% sure Kareem Hunt is not the same without this offense.

Oh I know he is not the same without this offense because he is on the couch at home saying to himself, I just Ray Riced myself and will never be in a NFL uniform again. If this were not on video he would still be playing but Andy/Veach knew there was video of this and the police were just setting on it and knew this would eventually come out and why they signed both Williams boys I assure you. We are fine at RB IMHO.

[Chiefshrink]

ROFL ok guy. You sure pegged me there.

Still no rebuttal to my points about Williams ??:shrug:

[MeatRock]

I like Damien Williams, but you're fucking blind if you can't see the difference in tackle breaking ability, speed and balance that Hunt possessed.

[dlphg9]

There is literally nothing wrong with the Offense. God damn this site is filled with a bunch of morons. Our running game hasnt missed a beat. Look at the first 3 games of the season
LAC
16 rushes 49 yds 3.06 ypc 0 tds 0 receptions
Pit
18 rushes 75 yds 4.17 ypc 1 rec 5 yds 1 TD
SF
18 rushes 44yds 2.44 ypc 2 TDs 0 rec

He didnt really contribute in those games.

Were avg 31.5 ppg since hes been gone. I swear every time we lose its like some of you lose IQ points. Quit trying to find the hidden reason we have lost. Its because we have a trash D. ****ing morons.

[jerryaldini]

Williams averaged about 8 yards a rush and was once again more dynamic than Hunt in the screen game. I'm sure the Chiefs are relieved to have moved on from the Hunt nonsense

[Cosmos]

You do not have football eyes and probably never played the game.:rolleyes:

Yes, but he may have been a State Wrestling Champion...., right?

[MeatRock]

Yes, but he may have been a State Wrestling Champion...., right?

ROFL

[Chris Meck]

Damien Williams is NOT as good as Hunt.

Williams/Williams/Ware however, as a group are just as productive. Missing Hunt is not the problem. Watkins being out hurts some. The offensive line injuries hurt some. All of that together and it's still a top flight offense scoring 30 points a game. The problem is the defense.

[Mecca]

The problem is teams don't account the way they did for Hunt which makes passing lanes smaller.

[Chris Meck]

The problem is teams don't account the way they did for Hunt which makes passing lanes smaller.

OR-
are the passing lanes smaller because they don't have to fear Robinson or Conley the same way they do Watkins?

Because in terms of pure production, we haven't lost anything in the RB department; YPC are about the same, lots of TD's, good receiving totals...


I think it's 50% Watkins' absence, 30% Offensive line injuries, 20% defensive adjustments/scheme/disguising coverages.

And we're STILL a damned good offense.

It's Bob's defense that's shit.

[philfree]

I think maybe fumbles are difference.

[Chiefshrink]

Damien Williams is NOT as good as Hunt.

Williams/Williams/Ware however, as a group are just as productive. Missing Hunt is not the problem. Watkins being out hurts some. The offensive line injuries hurt some. All of that together and it's still a top flight offense scoring 30 points a game. The problem is the defense.

Other than ball security rearing its ugly head tonight what has Williams not matched Hunt on so far with Williams starting now ? D Williams is far quicker to the hole and with much quicker feet and quicker in recognizing the seams before they open up. This is what I see in Williams being better than Hunt in the run game. Hands,power and tough to bring down are the same IMHO.

O line injuries ? Are kidding me ? I was the biggest critic of our o-line last year and the beginning of this year about not being tough enough to handle physical defensive lines but over all they have been much better than expected. Especially with Wylie, Reiter, and Devey coming in and not missing a beat. And you saw tonight how we were running all over Seattle with Williams. Their pass blocking has improved a lot from last year BUT Fisher absolutely sucked tonight.

Agree about the collective group of RBs being sufficient. And totally concur about Watkins not being out there as to why we are easier to defend.

[Chiefshrink]

I think maybe fumbles are difference.

Kareem fumbled once and now D Williams has fumbled once. Let's see over the course and time will tell.

[BandwagonChiefsFan]

Williams has been great. But there's no doubt teams started running two deep on us since we lost hunt. Carroll even directly said they were daring them to run. There's no doubt we miss him. But we're still excellent without him.

This retard just contradicted

-Teams started running two deep on us since we lost hunt.
-Carroll even directly said they were daring them to run.
-But we're still excellent without him.

.

[NJChiefsFan]

AR couldn't do it because he knows his defense is that bad so he passed more.

The drive we committed to the run we matched down and scored uncontested. I'm all for giving mahomes the ball but sometimes you need to take what they give you or you are playing into their hands. Especially when we were out of sync in the first half.

[Demonpenz]

Andy Reid falls away from the running game, but with this shit going on you just need to no huddle that bitch score 2 point conversions and try an onside kick everytime

[Pushead2]

If this defense was ranked 20th-25th overall, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.

Sure it's a different offense, but we wouldn't be that hung up on it if the defense learned how to keep teams under 27ppg.

[-King-]

Hunt still has the most TD's on the team at 14, but yet the Chiefs don't miss Hunt. Sure!!! Ok.

And since he was cut Damien Williams has 5 touchdowns in 2 starts. Sooo....

[JakeF]

I like Damien Williams, but you're fucking blind if you can't see the difference in tackle breaking ability, speed and balance that Hunt possessed.
Of course, Williams isn't as good as Hunt. But i still think the bigger difference is in the passing game. Watkins forces defenses to stay back because they can't double team 3 guys. Watkins allows Kelce and Hill to run free and get open easier. That opens everything up. Defenses are less aggressive about blitzing with Watkins on the field too.

[NJChiefsFan]

If this defense was ranked 20th-25th overall, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.

Sure it's a different offense, but we wouldn't be that hung up on it if the defense learned how to keep teams under 27ppg.

It's like if aliens ever invade Earth. It shouldn't be on the U.S. to protect the world, but we are going down if the U.S. doesn't do a great job.

What this offense should be expected to do and what it will have to be expected to do are two different things.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Feed big dick Darrel

[chiefzilla1501]

This retard just contradicted

-Teams started running two deep on us since we lost hunt.
-Carroll even directly said they were daring them to run.
-But we're still excellent without him.

.

We've been excellent with Williams. But we still took a step back and I explained why. Only a homer would think otherwise. Go fuck yourself.

[Prison Bitch]

150+ yards from scrimmage from the backs since Hunt released himself.

This is the obv rebuttal, but nobody will read it or understand it. Must be Kareem Hunt. Or some reason. (We all know what the reason is and everyone in the league knows what kills us)

[chiefzilla1501]

Of course, Williams isn't as good as Hunt. But i still think the bigger difference is in the passing game. Watkins forces defenses to stay back because they can't double team 3 guys. Watkins allows Kelce and Hill to run free and get open easier. That opens everything up. Defenses are less aggressive about blitzing with Watkins on the field too.

That's the bigger problem. But Pete Carroll specifically confirmed to the sideline reporter that he was daring the Chiefs to run in the first half. So there's also truth to the idea that other defenses dont respect the run the way they used to with kareem. No defense would dare run what Carroll did with kareem in the lineup.

[Easy 6]

I'm not even sure how to quantify it, but it DOES seem like things have been off since his departure... but the reason its hard to quantify, is because Williams has been a beast, the man averaged something like 7 ypc last night and is a demon in the screen game

Like many others, I'm leaning toward the absence of Watkins as the true culprit... its a substantial dropoff from him to Conley/Robinson

That and the O line injuries are whats "killing" this offense

[stevieray]

That's the bigger problem. But Pete Carroll specifically confirmed to the sideline reporter that he was daring the Chiefs to run in the first half. So there's also truth to the idea that other defenses dont respect the run the way they used to with kareem. No defense would dare run what Carroll did with kareem in the lineup.

Hunt pounding the rock with the lead and four minutes to go against the LAC?

:hmmm:

[Spott]

We were 9-1 and still had Hunt and a healthy offense before we were on the cover of SI. Why in the hell is that stupid magazine still around?

[Reerun_KC]

The offense has been going down hill ever since Hunt left.

[Mahomer]

Jesus how many times will it need to be said that because of an absence of Hunt defenses are shutting down the passing game more effectively!

So stop bringing up the rushing yards stats of Williams as it is irrelevant!

Hunt opened the passing game for this offense. This offense looks nothing like what it looked like earlier in the season despite the running game not changing much stats wise.....how do any of the Hunt haters in this thread explain that? Ohhh, let me guess: Watkins??

As great a season as Watkins has been having, Hunt was way more of a factor and threat that defenses had to gameplan around. Guarantee you, the game plan's every Sunday went Kelce/Hill first then Hunt then Watkins.

Now it's just Kelce/Hill.

They don't care about Williams, Ware, West. Let them get as many yards as possible without breaking the bank. They all know Reid will not run the ball in critical downs so who cares if they let them rush for 120 every game.

No defenses are giving a shit about Williams.....NONE.

Keep dreaming that Hunt's absence wasn't monumental as we can clearly see that Reid has not adjusted to a post-Hunt world at all.

[chiefzilla1501]

Hunt pounding the rock with the lead and four minutes to go against the LAC?

:hmmm:

Because they knew Andy Reid was unlikely to pass in that situation. Of course a defense will stack the box in that situation. Not even close to the same thing.

[suzzer99]

Hunt got 9 yards on first down against the Steelers in a spot where they knew we had to run. What are the odds we win that game if we have to give it back to Pitt w/about 2 mintues left? 10% maybe?

[stevieray]

Because they knew Andy Reid was unlikely to pass in that situation. Of course a defense will stack the box in that situation. Not even close to the same thing.

I was agreeing with you. Have no idea what the above is about.

[Johnny Vegas]

How else would you expect a team to literally lose a guy who gave you the best security when handing the ball off to? It’s gonna take time to get past the funeral especially with a young ass team.

[TEX]

Yes. They miss Hunt. He broke lots of tackles in the backfield and near the LOS. Also figured in big with the play action and also the check down. Was also a very good receiver out of the backfield. It was a huge loss.....BUT, they're also playing without broke dick Sammy Watkins. Perhaps if the offense picks it up a bit when / if he gets on the field again and if the RBC approach is effective, it may just be enough to carry the team.

[WhiteWhale]

The biggest problem is the lack of trust.

Ever since Hunt was cut KC is basically throwing twice as much as they run... even when they're effective running the ball.

KC did not struggle to run against Seattle. They just called something like 20 runs and 40 passes.

When playcalling gets that unbalanced, it's easier to stop the pass no matter what.