New DC not fixing this

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chiefs</a> when you get “angle blocked” you can’t stay blocked. You have either feel it and play over the top or you have to spin to escape. But you CANNOT stay blocked. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BaldysBreakdowns?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BaldysBreakdowns</a> <a href="https://t.co/1XNlxBzPw2">pic.twitter.com/1XNlxBzPw2</a></p>&mdash; Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1087360554199629825?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 21, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Smh

[Reerun_KC]

Need better players and less Ford Houston and Berry.

[ModSocks]

So then why aren't they understanding fundamentals?

That's coaching.

[smithandrew051]

Need better players and less Ford Houston and Berry.

Agreed. Way too much money tied up in players that are either unproductive, broke dicks, or one-dimensional. You could 6 or 7 pretty good players for what they’re making.

[dirk digler]

So then why aren't they understanding fundamentals?

That's coaching.


Truth and they are soft

[bricks]

So then why aren't they understanding fundamentals?

That's coaching.

Agreed. There has to be a lack of emphasis on it. There is no way players are this soft and give up that easily. Maybe Im wrong?

[O.city]

I think this is what you get when you don’t “emphasize” stopping the run. Guys play around blockers vs thru

[Reerun_KC]

Agreed. Way too much money tied up in players that are either unproductive, broke dicks, or one-dimensional. You could 6 or 7 pretty good players for what they’re making.

6 or 7 difference makers for sure.

Time to take out the trash.

[bricks]

I think this is what you get when you don’t “emphasize” stopping the run. Guys play around blockers vs thru

It also the lack of attacking mentality on D. This video is an example of what happens when you have a shitty defensive culture.

[Mecca]

They're older players that have already gotten paid...like it or not that plays in. Not everyone has the passion of like Ray Lewis and can always bring it...the guys that are suppose to be the leaders here don't.

Houston and Berry in particular.

[bricks]

They're older players that have already gotten paid...like it or not that plays in. Not everyone has the passion of like Ray Lewis and can always bring it...the guys that are suppose to be the leaders here don't.

Houston and Berry in particular.

And I’ll bet the same thing will happen to Ford and maybe Jones if they decide to pay them.

[RunKC]

This is part of the “players are the problem” issue. Allen Bailey has been a disaster in run defense. Nnandi has been a great run defender this year, but can’t play every down.

It wasn’t just Bob Sutton. Every time Brady saw Nnadi subbed out for Bailey, he audibled to a run bc he knew it was a giant weakness.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

How can anyone still give Sutton a pass after 6 years of the same problems? He’s predictable and doesn’t inspire intensity. Things have to change.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

How can anyone still give Sutton a pass after 6 years of the same problems? He’s predictable and doesn’t inspire intensity. Things have to change.

No pass here the problem is much deeper then him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

One thing a new DC could have done is to install some amoeba looks into the defense so that Brady couldn't just walk up to the line and check to a play he knew would beat the set defense he saw.

[RealSNR]

That's not a fucking reason to not get a new fucking defensive coordinator.

Fucking retarded buttfucking moron.

There were excuses after 2013. Excuses after 2015. 2016. 2017.

This thread probably isn't trying to defend Bob, but to pretend that we all think a new defensive coordinator is the magical "fix-all" is WAY more dishonest.

Do we need a better defensive coaching staff?

The answer is fucking yes. We also need better players. But we also need better coaches.

So go do the one fucking thing we haven't done since this defense slowly degraded into the abortion that it is after 6 years. Get a new defensive coordinator. We've tried to acquire new and better players. Draft, free agency, and trade. We will continue to try to find things that work. Until we do, though, please just get fucking rid of Bob. His shitty fucking resume speaks for itself.

It's not fucking hard.

[FAX]

Crusty Cheesecake Clitori! It's like Baldy just discovered the moon isn't comprised of green cheddar. You go, Baldy.

As though we haven't been fully aware that the backers and d-linemen can't shed blocks.

Actually, it's worse than he states in his uber-obvious, self-serving tweetage. Our starting ILBs (both of them) have been blocked all year by tight ends. Not Gronk, mind you. Just some damn no-name TE nobody's ever even heard of ... neither before nor since. Oh ... and pulling guards. Guards eat up our ILBs like biscuits and gravy. "Yum. We're playing the Chiefs. I just got a contract extension!"

Baldy with the super-hot, NFL-pundit take that everybody knew after week 2. And (other than a couple of games) never demonstrated any improvement. Ever. Baldy Blowitoutyourass is a real killer analyst.

FAX

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

That's not a ****ing reason to not get a new ****ing defensive coordinator.

****ing retarded butt****ing moron.

There were excuses after 2013. Excuses after 2015. 2016. 2017.

This thread probably isn't trying to defend Bob, but to pretend that we all think a new defensive coordinator is the magical "fix-all" is WAY more dishonest.

Do we need a better defensive coaching staff?

The answer is ****ing yes. We also need better players. But we also need better coaches.

So go do the one ****ing thing we haven't done since this defense slowly degraded into the abortion that it is after 6 years. Get a new defensive coordinator. We've tried to acquire new and better players. Draft, free agency, and trade. We will continue to try to find things that work. Until we do, though, please just get ****ing rid of Bob. His shitty ****ing resume speaks for itself.

It's not ****ing hard.


100% right just hope they fire everyone on that side of the ball. Let the new DC pick his coaches

[LoneWolf]

Baldy dumb as fuck on this play. Houston is stepping forward into a gap at the snap. He held his gap responibility. The player to the inside of him is never getting outside to make that play. Berry does his job by taking on the blocker and not letting the RB get outside. This entire play is funneled to Hitchens to make the play. Hitchens reacts too slowly and then doesn’t attack the ball carrier. He does what he’s been doing all year and catches the ball carrier and gets pushed back an extra 3-4 yards.

[Hammock Parties]

One thing a new DC could have done is to install some amoeba looks into the defense so that Brady couldn't just walk up to the line and check to a play he knew would beat the set defense he saw.

If I remember correctly, the Chiefs used a lot of amoeba when they used to frustrate Manning when Herm was in town.

Too bad Herm is living it up at ASU.

Ty Law for DC

[Gravedigger]

If you think Bob Sutton deserves more chances for this team, then I'm sure you're just trolling at this point and not an actual Chiefs fan.

[FAX]

That's not a ****ing reason to not get a new ****ing defensive coordinator.

****ing retarded butt****ing moron.

There were excuses after 2013. Excuses after 2015. 2016. 2017.

This thread probably isn't trying to defend Bob, but to pretend that we all think a new defensive coordinator is the magical "fix-all" is WAY more dishonest.

Do we need a better defensive coaching staff?

The answer is ****ing yes. We also need better players. But we also need better coaches.

So go do the one ****ing thing we haven't done since this defense slowly degraded into the abortion that it is after 6 years. Get a new defensive coordinator. We've tried to acquire new and better players. Draft, free agency, and trade. We will continue to try to find things that work. Until we do, though, please just get ****ing rid of Bob. His shitty ****ing resume speaks for itself.

It's not ****ing hard.

For my part, I don't disagree, Mr. RealSNR.

The problem as I see it is that we can hire on a new DC who may or may not have a system that may or may not fit a majority of our existing marginal-to-bad players. Then what? We have to start rebuilding the defense (such as it is) from ground up? I'm okay with that in theory, but we should be prepared for the fact that a rebuild of that nature takes years.

This isn't an easy fix, my friend. [Insert another 12 paragraphs of FAX bitching like a stiffed desert whore about Dorsey.] We are in a pickle when it comes to defense. Cap-wise. Talent-wise. Coaching-wise. Every whichaway you can think of, really.

FAX

[FAX]

Baldy dumb as **** on this play. Houston is stepping forward into a gap at the snap. He held his gap responibility. The player to the inside of him is never getting outside to make that play. Berry does his job by taking on the blocker and not letting the RB get outside. This entire play is funneled to Hitchens to make the play. Hitchens reacts too slowly and then doesn’t attack the ball carrier. He does what he’s been doing all year and catches the ball carrier and gets pushed back an extra 3-4 yards.

Thank you.

FAX

[RealSNR]

For my part, I don't disagree, Mr. RealSNR.

The problem as I see it is that we can hire on a new DC who may or may not have a system that may or may not fit a majority of our existing marginal-to-bad players. Then what? We have to start rebuilding the defense (such as it is) from ground up? I'm okay with that in theory, but we should be prepared for the fact that a rebuild of that nature takes years.

This isn't an easy fix, my friend. [Insert another 12 paragraphs of FAX bitching like a stiffed desert whore about Dorsey.] We are in a pickle when it comes to defense. Cap-wise. Talent-wise. Coaching-wise. Every whichaway you can think of, really.

FAX

Even a changeover to something like a 4-3 isn't going to take that long. And the way I see it, there will be players out of position a lot if we make a switch next year.

So? There were players out of position THIS YEAR when we had the old scheme in place!

It's not like it can't get any worse, right?

[bricks]

Im not in agreement that this isn’t a quick fix.

With the right hire, scheme and personnel all happening simultaneously and in conjunction with each other; a fix on defense could happen in a year or two. You’d be surprised.

Look at the Colts? They turned their D around in a short time span.

The first part is hiring the right guy. They get that done, and I think the rest will come.

[GloucesterChief]

Never underestimate what a new voice in the locker room will do. Also a new coach might be able to light a fire under some asses rather than Bob's thousand yard stare lets do the same thing over and over game plan.

[JakeF]

That should happen once before the coaches jump all over it. Tell the player what to do and then kick his ass if he doesn't do it. Reid is so busy being everyone's friend that he doesn't kick anyone's ass and all the players know it. The team is soft and undisciplined, just like it's HC.

Clark screwed up, he should have kept Dorsey/Pederson and let Reid walk.

Pederson's already won a super bowl.

[FAX]

Even a changeover to something like a 4-3 isn't going to take that long. And the way I see it, there will be players out of position a lot if we make a switch next year.

So? There were players out of position THIS YEAR when we had the old scheme in place!

It's not like it can't get any worse, right?

That's where we shall be forced to disagree, I'm afraid.

The difference between the 30th and the 31st ranked defense can be a few yards over the course of a year. Or, it can be a heck of a lot more.

I'm not saying I have the answer. I don't. But it can, in fact, be worse. And given the quality of players and the cap issues we're living with, it can be much, much worse. I'm all for breaking eggs, but I'd like to know what we're planning to cook.

FAX

[stevieray]

Baldy dumb as fuck on this play. Houston is stepping forward into a gap at the snap. He held his gap responibility. The player to the inside of him is never getting outside to make that play. Berry does his job by taking on the blocker and not letting the RB get outside. This entire play is funneled to Hitchens to make the play. Hitchens reacts too slowly and then doesn’t attack the ball carrier. He does what he’s been doing all year and catches the ball carrier and gets pushed back an extra 3-4 yards.

Hitchens, especially on this play ..looks like a LB avoiding as much contact as possible.

LIABILITY.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Baldy dumb as fuck on this play. Houston is stepping forward into a gap at the snap. He held his gap responibility. The player to the inside of him is never getting outside to make that play. Berry does his job by taking on the blocker and not letting the RB get outside. This entire play is funneled to Hitchens to make the play. Hitchens reacts too slowly and then doesn’t attack the ball carrier. He does what he’s been doing all year and catches the ball carrier and gets pushed back an extra 3-4 yards.

It's a little more complicated than that. Bailey gets fucking destroyed. Look at how much space him getting washed out opens up for the back on that play. You're asking Hitchens to cover a ton of real estate there. Bailey has to do a better job of holding his ground there, as that will string the play out rather than giving the back a huge hole with multiple angles to run through.

[Mecca]

Hitchens 100% plays like a guy who has been told not to get to the line quick.

[mcaj22]

This play is fine here when its prime DJ in Hitchens spot blowing through gap and stopping that play in the backfield. DJ did it for 10 years here. Replace that with an overpaid 45 million FA bust ILBer that does NOT do that and everyone looks bad.

[JakeF]

I'm sure our Hall of Fame defensive line coach is all over this.

[JakeF]

This play is fine here when its prime DJ in Hitchens spot blowing through gap and stopping that play in the backfield. DJ did it for 10 years here. Replace that with an overpaid 45 million FA bust ILBer that does NOT do that and everyone looks bad.It still doesn't change that our defensive line is losing the battle. We depended on DJ and Berry far too much for far too long.

[FAX]

Okay ...

Let's start with the outcome and work backward. We want a top 10 defense (or let's say we do). In order to get one of those we need at least 2 or 3 star players who can change a game simply on the basis of raw talent. Gotta have those guys.

Next, we need a DC who knows what he's doing and can get our star players to buy in. We'll just walk over to the Effective DC Tree in the Coaching Talent Forest and pluck down one of those dudes. Done.

Then, we need to fill in all the holes on defense. Those supporting characters have to be able to execute the scheme. We just need about 25 or 30 of them when we start camp. Let's rely on the draft, undrafted guys, and other teams' practice squads for them. (Remember, we're low as hell on the waiver wire selection list.)

Meanwhile, we have to figure out what to do with all the unpaid contracts and dead money we're holding on the Berry and Houston deals. So we have to sign FAs who are willing to accept signing bonuses, short-term deals, and no guarantees.

Get all that done in 1 year? I'm dubious.

FAX THE DUBIOUS

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Fax I’ll take a D in the 18 to 25 range with Patrick that’s good enough

[JakeF]

Get all that done in 1 year? I'm dubious.

FAX THE DUBIOUS
We are going to have to draft some studs on defense that can step in year 1.

Every year that goes by Mahomes is closer to getting to his Billion dollar contract that is going to destroy our cap making it incredibly difficult to deal with FAs.

[Naptown Chief]

Even a changeover to something like a 4-3 isn't going to take that long. And the way I see it, there will be players out of position a lot if we make a switch next year.

So? There were players out of position THIS YEAR when we had the old scheme in place!

It's not like it can't get any worse, right?

While I'd like to say you're right, and perhaps you are, do you remember the collective (I'm not saying EVERYONE agreed but a shit ton of people did) rally cry all off-season? "It's not like it could get much worse," and, to my amazement, it in fact did get worse. Substantially. Fuck man, even with last year's D we may have won the Superbowl...

[Aspengc8]

Baldy dumb as **** on this play. Houston is stepping forward into a gap at the snap. He held his gap responibility. The player to the inside of him is never getting outside to make that play. Berry does his job by taking on the blocker and not letting the RB get outside. This entire play is funneled to Hitchens to make the play. Hitchens reacts too slowly and then doesn’t attack the ball carrier. He does what he’s been doing all year and catches the ball carrier and gets pushed back an extra 3-4 yards.

^

[FAX]

Fax I’ll take a D in the 18 to 25 range with Patrick that’s good enough

Please don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a defense again.

At this point, anything better than appallingly disappointing would be an improvement. I understand that, too. Currently, we don't have the horses. Nor do we have the leadership or the brain trust to get us much better than what we are.

All I'm trying to say is that it sounds great in theory, but given where we are, it's not going to be easy. Or quick.

And the Mahomes clock is ticking.

FAX

[GloucesterChief]

Please don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a defense again.

At this point, anything better than appallingly disappointing would be an improvement. I understand that, too. Currently, we don't have the horses. Nor do we have the leadership or the brain trust to get us much better than what we are.

All I'm trying to say is that it sounds great in theory, but given where we are, it's not going to be easy. Or quick.

And the Mahomes clock is ticking.

FAX

The defense can't get any worse.

[Naptown Chief]

Please don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a defense again.

At this point, anything better than appallingly disappointing would be an improvement. I understand that, too. Currently, we don't have the horses. Nor do we have the leadership or the brain trust to get us much better than what we are.

All I'm trying to say is that it sounds great in theory, but given where we are, it's not going to be easy. Or quick.

And the Mahomes clock is ticking.

FAX

Yup. Even if we find God's gift to defense to come be our coordinator he'll need time to climb us out of the crater we've found ourselves in.

That said, we have 4-5 picks in the top 100. We do actually, amazingly enough, have some cap space. I don't recall the numbers but good ole SR posted it several times this year and I was impressed. I think some, not all, but some players will take slight discounts to play for us given how close we were this year and the obviously bright future of Pat.

If we can get anyone, ANYONE, to replace Buttons, hit on a couple draft picks, and pick up a couple guys on D we'll be in excellent shape. By excellent I mean at least (pray to God) better than this year. Remember, we did go after Earl Thomas. He is still a FA. Landon Collins is also going to be available (I think), Ramsey as well. There'll be some talent out there and hopefully the lure of a championship caliber offense with "just a few missing pieces" needed on D will help bring some in.

[UChieffyBugger]

6 or 7 difference makers for sure.

Time to take out the trash.

Like who exactly? :hmmm:

[Lightrise]

It's true, a new DC isn't going to fix this. There does have to be a new DC but it will take much more. The Chiefs can't tweak this team into a champion, and they sure can't screw up the best thing to come to the franchise, ever. The Chiefs cannot have a locker room of back biting, second-guessing, or worse sabotage. There has to be bold change and the change has to be bold in ways that protect Reid, and possibly even the GM too. They have to create an environment that will allow for new leaders to emerge defensively. They have to part ways with obvious dead weight, but they have to cut ties with injury prone players and they have to acknowledge draft mistakes too. Don't make the bold changes one at a time and don't wait until training camp to do it. We have to take the financial hit now.

They have to go...

Sutton
Bailey
Kpass
Zombo
Neiman
Ragland
Houston
Berry
Nelson
Scandrick
Murray
Watts
Sorenson

Safeties have to be fast high draft picks and our #1 pick this year

We have to turn over linebackers frequently like Pittsburgh does and they have to be physical guys. We have to cease over paying these guys on long term deals. Clever scheming is more effective than superman types teams take out of games.

Simply cannot have bad tacklers on the team

Ford gets Franchise Tag for 1 year only.

Others who must go
Harris - commits too many penalties and is so risky in the passing game he's a bigger problem than he's an asset.
West
Conley
Morse - Concussion concern and is frankly overrated

[htismaqe]

Please don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a defense again.

At this point, anything better than appallingly disappointing would be an improvement. I understand that, too. Currently, we don't have the horses. Nor do we have the leadership or the brain trust to get us much better than what we are.

All I'm trying to say is that it sounds great in theory, but given where we are, it's not going to be easy. Or quick.

And the Mahomes clock is ticking.

FAX

They're getting a new DC. Who knows, they might change their base defense. They've got 3 picks in the first two rounds.

Things can change QUICKLY in this league.

Will it be easy? No. Is it possible? Absolutely.

They were 3 inches away from going to the Super Bowl with this defense - this defense that isn't just bad, it's HISTORICALLY bad.

[Lightrise]

It's true, a new DC isn't going to fix this. There does have to be a new DC but it will take much more. The Chiefs can't tweak this team into a champion, and they sure can't screw up the best thing to come to the franchise, ever. The Chiefs cannot have a locker room of back biting, second-guessing, or worse sabotage. There has to be bold change and the change has to be bold in ways that protect Reid, and possibly even the GM too. They have to create an environment that will allow for new leaders to emerge defensively. They have to part ways with obvious dead weight, but they have to cut ties with injury prone players and they have to acknowledge draft mistakes too. Don't make the bold changes one at a time and don't wait until training camp to do it. We have to take the financial hit now.

They have to go...

Sutton
Bailey
Kpass
Zombo
Neiman
Ragland
Houston
Berry
Nelson
Scandrick
Murray
Watts
Sorenson

Safeties have to be fast high draft picks and our #1 pick this year

We have to turn over linebackers frequently like Pittsburgh does and they have to be physical guys. We have to cease over paying these guys on long term deals. Clever scheming is more effective than superman types teams take out of games.

Simply cannot have bad tacklers on the team

Ford gets Franchise Tag for 1 year only.

Others who must go
Harris - commits too many penalties and is so risky in the passing game he's a bigger problem than he's an asset.
West
Conley
Morse - Concussion concern and is frankly overrated

[LoneWolf]

It's a little more complicated than that. Bailey gets fucking destroyed. Look at how much space him getting washed out opens up for the back on that play. You're asking Hitchens to cover a ton of real estate there. Bailey has to do a better job of holding his ground there, as that will string the play out rather than giving the back a huge hole with multiple angles to run through.

That’s bullshit. The play was never designed to go anywhere near Bailey’s gap and Bailey really didn’t get moved that much until the back was already way past him and he was trying to spin out an start to pursue the play. Hitchens job on that play is to slide to the open hole between Houston and Berry and stop the back in the hole. He hesitated, which allowed the OL to get a small piece of him and then he didn’t attack the back in the hole. Instead he caught the back like a calf in a chute and rode him for a few yards.

[hometeam]

DC is responsible not only for the placalling, but the players being ready for gameday.


If you have never been responsible for a team, or ran a business, you might not understand this.


Bob Sutton is a fucking dumpster fire.

[JakeF]

Our defensive line fundamentals have gotten worse since Britt Reid took over. Maybe Bob Sutton doesn't want to yell at Andy's kid?

[BryanBusby]

That’s bullshit. The play was never designed to go anywhere near Bailey’s gap and Bailey really didn’t get moved that much until the back was already way past him and he was trying to spin out an start to pursue the play. Hitchens job on that play is to slide to the open hole between Houston and Berry and stop the back in the hole. He hesitated, which allowed the OL to get a small piece of him and then he didn’t attack the back in the hole. Instead he caught the back like a calf in a chute and rode him for a few yards.
Bailey already had hands on him and was being driven away when the ballcarrier got close.

Baldy is right. These dudes didn't even try to fight out of their respective blocks. Once they got hands on them, it was game over. Pathetic.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Crusty Cheesecake Clitori! It's like Baldy just discovered the moon isn't comprised of green cheddar. You go, Baldy.

As though we haven't been fully aware that the backers and d-linemen can't shed blocks.

Actually, it's worse than he states in his uber-obvious, self-serving tweetage. Our starting ILBs (both of them) have been blocked all year by tight ends. Not Gronk, mind you. Just some damn no-name TE nobody's ever even heard of ... neither before nor since. Oh ... and pulling guards. Guards eat up our ILBs like biscuits and gravy. "Yum. We're playing the Chiefs. I just got a contract extension!"

Baldy with the super-hot, NFL-pundit take that everybody knew after week 2. And (other than a couple of games) never demonstrated any improvement. Ever. Baldy Blowitoutyourass is a real killer analyst.

FAX

Do we need better players? Yes.
Do we need a better DC? Yes.

Someone mentioned how poorly Bailey plays against the run, and I don't agree completely, because Bailey is a physical freak, but he does struggle against the run.

But the entire defensive line struggles against the run. It does not matter which gap our 2 defensive linemen play (I say 2 because that is generally how many are on the field at one time) because on either side they are bookended with a linebacker.

Hey Bob, newsflash: offensive guards and tackles are much bigger than linebackers, and can easily push them back when run blocking, so maybe don't have your linebackers take two steps forward into waiting hands of the guards and tackles.

Scheme is one of the main reasons I think we need a new DC, but I also think we need a new DC because our personnel isn't very good top to bottom. Sutton doesn't understand how to use the players he has, he only knows his scheme.

If you watch the Patriots defensive front against our offensive line, they were using twists and stunts, often delaying for a beat, and they were getting home rushing 4 because they didn't just line up and immediately engage the offensive linemen.

Watch or defensive line and we almost always go one on one with the tackle or guard we lined up against. And our linebackers have apparently been coached to step forward and allow an offensive linemen to grab them.

How does Sutton expect his defense to stop the run, when they immediately allow themselves to get blocked? It's frustrating to watch, and I bet a lot of us wonder why teams even bother to throw the ball against us.

Everyone talks about BB and the way he game plans for opposing offenses, and he tries to take away whatever he thinks the offense's best weapon or strength is. Well, does anyone think Sutton ever makes an actual game plan? I don't think he does, because our defense does the exact same thing over and over again.

If Houston, Ford, and Jones weren't pro bowl level talent, this would have been the worst defense in the history of the NFL. And that's not hyperbole.

We need a DC who can game plan, and who can use the strengths of the available players, while the GM is busy improving the players on the defensive roster.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That’s bullshit. The play was never designed to go anywhere near Bailey’s gap and Bailey really didn’t get moved that much until the back was already way past him and he was trying to spin out an start to pursue the play. Hitchens job on that play is to slide to the open hole between Houston and Berry and stop the back in the hole. He hesitated, which allowed the OL to get a small piece of him and then he didn’t attack the back in the hole. Instead he caught the back like a calf in a chute and rode him for a few yards.

It doesn't matter if the play wasn't designed to go to Bailey's gap, he needs to get past the face of Cannon on that play rather than getting blown off his spot and then giving up. If he does that, the back has to shift backwards rather than running to the hole with a full head of steam. Doing that would blow the entire run up. As is, the back got a full head of steam on the sweep. Same thing with Houston.

And if Hitchens runs towards the back with a full head of steam and the back has enough wiggle to make him miss, that six yard gain becomes 20 or more.

[FAX]

It doesn't matter if the play wasn't designed to go to Bailey's gap, he needs to get past the face of Cannon on that play rather than getting blown off his spot and then giving up. If he does that, the back has to shift backwards rather than running to the hole with a full head of steam. Doing that would blow the entire run up. As is, the back got a full head of steam on the sweep. Same thing with Houston.

And if Hitchens runs towards the back with a full head of steam and the back has enough wiggle to make him miss, that six yard gain becomes 20 or more.

Thing is, we don't know their responsibilities (and neither does Baldy Buttwipe).

Right or wrong, they could have been playing that exactly as intended based on their preparation.

Personally, I would prefer a more "attacking" style of defense. But, if you guess wrong, things can go awry. More awry than usual, I mean. Based solely on guesswork, I can easily imagine that Sutton preferred to error on the side of gap responsibility.

In other words, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they played that exactly how they were coached to do it. Doesn't make it smart, but it also doesn't make it wrong.

FAX

[mnchiefsguy]

They're getting a new DC. Who knows, they might change their base defense. They've got 3 picks in the first two rounds.

Things can change QUICKLY in this league.

Will it be easy? No. Is it possible? Absolutely.

They were 3 inches away from going to the Super Bowl with this defense - this defense that isn't just bad, it's HISTORICALLY bad.

Yep...and to improve from worst to middle of the pack is easier than going from middle of the pack to the top.

This defense does not have to be great...or even very good. It just needs to be 15th or so, and able to get a stop in the fourth quarter when needed.

[htismaqe]

Well, does anyone think Sutton ever makes an actual game plan? I don't think he does, because our defense does the exact same thing over and over again.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

[kccrow]

Agree with LoneWolf 100%. The Hitch in Hitchens came out to play all season long. He waits and catches instead of attacking. He reads that play and attacks the hole developing, he probably pins them for a 1-yard loss or no gain. Instead, he waits 5 yards downfield to catch the back. Every single motherfucking time.

No matter what the D-Line did there, a competent LB takes that play away. The DLine could played it better. Bailey was never making a play there unless he flat out won off the snap. He's too far inside and that play happens fast in real time. The only one that could have potentially peeled was Houston but that was one hell of a good block by Gronk. Offensive players get paid to do just what the Pats did there. They are going to win some. LBs consistently not filling gaps the entire season though, that's inexcusable.

[comochiefsfan]

Our defense is SOFT. This has been a trend for Reid/Sutton defenses for a while now. They play on their heels, give massive cushions and don't fly to the ball carrier. They look confused, tentative, and weak. I believe this is a direct result of the culture that Andy and Bob have created.

The next coordinator has to be someone who is willing to kick these guys in the asses. We've been missing a sense of urgency and mean streak on defense for far too long. It's the reason that we continually give up 3rd and longs. The killer instinct just isn't there.

[Bump]

yup, too much money tied up in Berry and Houston and we aren't getting a good return on it. Hitchens was a very bad signing as well, plus we haven't really hit on too many defensive players in the draft other than Chris Jones. It might take a while and some good luck to fix this D, but it should start with better coaches.

[Schnitzel]

For my part, I don't disagree, Mr. RealSNR.

The problem as I see it is that we can hire on a new DC who may or may not have a system that may or may not fit a majority of our existing marginal-to-bad players. Then what? We have to start rebuilding the defense (such as it is) from ground up? I'm okay with that in theory, but we should be prepared for the fact that a rebuild of that nature takes years.

This isn't an easy fix, my friend. [Insert another 12 paragraphs of FAX bitching like a stiffed desert whore about Dorsey.] We are in a pickle when it comes to defense. Cap-wise. Talent-wise. Coaching-wise. Every whichaway you can think of, really.

FAX

Statistically this was on of the worst defenses of all time, so there is not much downside anyway

[LoneWolf]

It doesn't matter if the play wasn't designed to go to Bailey's gap, he needs to get past the face of Cannon on that play rather than getting blown off his spot and then giving up. If he does that, the back has to shift backwards rather than running to the hole with a full head of steam. Doing that would blow the entire run up. As is, the back got a full head of steam on the sweep. Same thing with Houston.

And if Hitchens runs towards the back with a full head of steam and the back has enough wiggle to make him miss, that six yard gain becomes 20 or more.

The only way Bailey is doing anything to affect that play is if he is penetrating the gap at the snap. We don’t know what his or Houston’s responsibility is in this particular defensive call, but based on prior comments from players and coaches, Sutton’s defense relies on everyone having gap responsibility and the LB making tackles as plays are funneled to them.

Houston and Bailey do their job, in my opinion, by holding their gap. Berry does exactly what he is supposed to do by taking on the block with his inside shoulder and turning the play inside. The failure is with Hitchens’ slow reaction and non-aggression towards the hole.

[TEX]

Statistically this was on of the worst defenses of all time, so there is not much downside anyway

That's so true. That's exactly why now is the time for change - even if means changing most everything on defense.

[mcaj22]

It still doesn't change that our defensive line is losing the battle. We depended on DJ and Berry far too much for far too long.

DL is holding responsibility, yes they are getting pushed but the gaps are open. Hitchens waits for the center to come out and get him and then runs into the pulling guard. DJ would have shed that center or blown by him immediately and met White right at the LOS on the other side of Houston. That is literally what you pay an athletic MLBer premier top 5 money to DO.

[TEX]

DL is holding responsibility, yes they are getting pushed but the gaps are open. Hitchens waits for the center to come out and get him and then runs into the pulling guard. DJ would have shed that center or blown by him immediately and met White right at the LOS on the other side of Houston. That is literally what you pay an athletic MLBer premier top 5 money to DO.

Nailed it.

[bowener]

What is the likelihood Marvin Lewis ends up the DC for the Chiefs?

25% chance?

It needs to be Romo, though.

[scho63]

In that clip, the Patriots used the Chief's defenders momentum to easily push them to the left as the play went right. Didn't take much strength. It's what they use in judo.

[Rausch]

Bob Sutton is a ****ing dumpster fire.

This.

Sutton finds a way to take the talent he does have and make it look bad.

Think about that.

[MahiMike]

They're older players that have already gotten paid...like it or not that plays in. Not everyone has the passion of like Ray Lewis and can always bring it...the guys that are suppose to be the leaders here don't.

Houston and Berry in particular.

Yup. Never give these guys long-term contracts. Ever.

[Rausch]

Anyone who says that Berry and Houston aren't true leaders on this team doesn't know the first fucking thing about this team.

People close to the team or with access to the locker room or practice will tell you the exact opposite. In fact you don't have to look too hard to find a ton of podcasts where people reported just how much Houston was telling the team how seriously they need to take this and how they need to keep their mind on the goal.

[Dr. Yu Weed Tard]

So then why aren't they understanding fundamentals?

That's coaching.

That's on their position coaches...

Defensive coordinators at the NFL level don't teach fundamentals.

But these guys are soft. That's on the Head Coach who, btw, brought his own defensive position coach, his son, DL coach Britt Reid.

So...it's all on the guy in charge of the coaching staff, Andy Reid, the Head Coach.

Sutton is not, and never has been, 'the' problem.

[Rausch]

Coach.

Sutton is not, and never has been, 'the' problem.

I completely disagree and so do most people who are paid to comment on such matters.

[Dr. Yu Weed Tard]

DL is holding responsibility, yes they are getting pushed but the gaps are open. Hitchens waits for the center to come out and get him and then runs into the pulling guard. DJ would have shed that center or blown by him immediately and met White right at the LOS on the other side of Houston. That is literally what you pay an athletic MLBer premier top 5 money to DO.

And DJ was sitting in the stands. Again, that's on Andy Reid and Veach.

[LoneWolf]

And DJ was sitting in the stands. Again, that's on Andy Reid and Veach.

Your and idiot.

[kcclone]

It's funny how this debate has become so binary. It doesn't have to be an either/or question. Most likely, it's a little of both.

If Bob Sutton had better personnel, he could probably field a defense that doesn't finish ranked 31st.

On the flip side of the coin, a really good DC would have enough talent (on this current team) to have at least a top 20 Defense.

IMO, we need to change the DC AND focus on upgrading personnel. Frankly, you always have to look at upgrading personnel on defense because the shelf life of players is pretty short.

If we hire the right DC, and can upgrade at 2-3 different positions, we can become a top 15-20 defense.

If we're in that range, combined with our offense we will be right back in the AFC championship next year with a better chance to win.

[Rausch]

And DJ was sitting in the stands. Again, that's on Andy Reid and Veach.

No, that's on father time...

[O.city]

I refuse to believe that this is one of the worst defenses of all time because of the talent.

[bevischief]

What is the likelihood Marvin Lewis ends up the DC for the Chiefs?

25% chance?

It needs to be Romo, though.

Sponge Bob would be....

[ForeverChiefs58]

The reason you get new coaching is to fix what is broken by learning from better coaching.

Not having better coaching is what leads to finding a fix.

[kcclone]

That's on their position coaches...

Defensive coordinators at the NFL level don't teach fundamentals.

But these guys are soft. That's on the Head Coach who, btw, brought his own defensive position coach, his son, DL coach Britt Reid.

So...it's all on the guy in charge of the coaching staff, Andy Reid, the Head Coach.

Sutton is not, and never has been, 'the' problem.



Our DL is the least of our problems on defense. Nnadi looks like he improved quite a bit and will become a legit NG. Chris Jones has developed into a great DT/DE and probably a top 2 pass rushing DL. So I don't think it's fair to pile on Britt Reid at this point.

[bevischief]

So does a boot up the...

[Rausch]

Our DL is the least of our problems on defense. Nnadi looks like he improved quite a bit and will become a legit NG. Chris Jones has developed into a great DT/DE and probably a top 2 pass rushing DL. So I don't think it's fair to pile on Britt Reid at this point.

DL is one of the few areas this D looked good...

[Dr. Yu Weed Tard]

Our DL is the least of our problems on defense. Nnadi looks like he improved quite a bit and will become a legit NG. Chris Jones has developed into a great DT/DE and probably a top 2 pass rushing DL. So I don't think it's fair to pile on Britt Reid at this point.

I said this defense, and TEAM, is a reflection of their head coach. They're not physically imposing. Fast, absolutely. But we don't get some physical and mental toughness, we'll always fall victim to those types of teams. The Ravens took us to the woodshed, we were lucky Mahomes was able to pull that one out. Arizona's defense gave us fits.

[bevischief]

Enough

[Chris Meck]

I refuse to believe that this is one of the worst defenses of all time because of the talent.

3 #1 picks. 4 #2 picks. Houston and a bunch of #3 picks.

You've got 8 top 64 picks in their respective years to put on the field. Plus a multiple pro-bowler in Houston.

That's not bottom feeder talent. It's just not.

Yes I know Berry's injured. So 7 top 64 picks plus Houston. And a bunch of #3's.

and Hitchens, who looked great last year in Dallas, meh here.

At best, they're underachieving.

[FAX]

I said this defense, and TEAM, is a reflection of their head coach. They're not physically imposing. Fast, absolutely. But we don't get some physical and mental toughness, we'll always fall victim to those types of teams. The Ravens took us to the woodshed, we were lucky Mahomes was able to pull that one out. Arizona's defense gave us fits.

I'm going to dispute this a bit, Mr. Haglund's_Spirit.

Mahomes is tough. Kelce loves contact. Both he and Tyreek don't back down and are fearless. Everything above Watkins' cankles is tough. Ware is a badass and so is Sherman. I could mention others including Dr. Mauler and Wylie.

Defensively, I don't think a rational person could argue that Houston isn't physically and mentally tough. Or Berry. I'd probably include Fuller in that list.

After that, it seems to drop off (in my mind).

I see a lot of posters trying to narrow our problems down to 1 (one) thing. Some say it's coaching. Others say it's talent. I fear our limitations may well be caused a combination of several things.

FAX

[kgrund]

Though I agree with Fax's take in general, I do believe Mr. Haglund's_Spirit has merit. This is specifically what Veatch talked about LAST YEAR. He recognized that the nastiness of the defense needed to be ramped up. He supposedly drafted with that in mind. The problem is what he did to address this has not worked so far. I think the GM has been laser focused on this core problem from the get go. Priority #1 LAST YEAR was to fix the run defense. The concerning part is nothing he did appears to have helped with this issue so far.

[htismaqe]

It's funny how this debate has become so binary. It doesn't have to be an either/or question. Most likely, it's a little of both.

If Bob Sutton had better personnel, he could probably field a defense that doesn't finish ranked 31st.

On the flip side of the coin, a really good DC would have enough talent (on this current team) to have at least a top 20 Defense.

IMO, we need to change the DC AND focus on upgrading personnel. Frankly, you always have to look at upgrading personnel on defense because the shelf life of players is pretty short.

If we hire the right DC, and can upgrade at 2-3 different positions, we can become a top 15-20 defense.

If we're in that range, combined with our offense we will be right back in the AFC championship next year with a better chance to win.

Exactly.

Not only COULD Bob Sutton field a better defense with better talent - he DID. But that was in the past. Adjustments need to be made and he can't do it.

Start with him and then focus on the draft. Thinks can, and will, improve.

[O.city]

Exactly.

Not only COULD Bob Sutton field a better defense with better talent - he DID. But that was in the past. Adjustments need to be made and he can't do it.

Start with him and then focus on the draft. Thinks can, and will, improve.

Looking around at the top tier defenses, I just can't see Sutton doing that anymore. You need someone that can be innovative.

Pattern matching, different fronts etc. He just doesn't have it in him anymore and it's too damn hard to amass that kind of talent.

[FAX]

Though I agree with Fax's take in general, I do believe Mr. Haglund's_Spirit has merit. This is specifically what Veatch talked about LAST YEAR. He recognized that the nastiness of the defense needed to be ramped up. He supposedly drafted with that in mind. The problem is what he did to address this has not worked so far. I think the GM has been laser focused on this core problem from the get go. Priority #1 LAST YEAR was to fix the run defense. The concerning part is nothing he did appears to have helped with this issue so far.

Honestly, our GM issue is a key aspect of this debate. (It's what got us here in the first place.)

When your GM goes public and says he's going to "fix" the run defense and field a team that plays "tough" for 4 (four) quarters and fails this miserably in both, your organization has a problem.

Some scouts are better at finding offensive players and some are better at finding defensive guys. I'm wondering if our player personnel department is limited in that regard. We had no first round pick last year, so I'm hopeful Veach sees what everybody else in the world sees and corrects his course.

FAX

[htismaqe]

Honestly, our GM issue is a key aspect of this debate. (It's what got us here in the first place.)

When your GM goes public and says he's going to "fix" the run defense and field a team that plays "tough" for 4 (four) quarters and fails this miserably in both, your organization has a problem.

Some scouts are better at finding offensive players and some are better at finding defensive guys. I'm wondering if our player personnel department is limited in that regard. We had no first round pick last year, so I'm hopeful Veach sees what everybody else in the world sees and corrects his course.

FAX

Nnadi was a very good player. Speaks...well...wasn't. That being said, a lot of the young guys weren't on the field a lot, which Veach doesn't control - Andy and Bob do.

It all starts with getting better coaching. After that, we'll see. I'm not ready to count Veach out yet but yes, it HAS to improve.

[Gravedigger]

This offseason will speak volumes for Veach. He wanted to go younger, that was the reasoning for getting rid of Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali. Does he continue down that path? Does he do what everyone else would do in this situation; sign Tyreek, sign Jones, tag Ford? Or does he continue with the younger approach; sign Tyreek, tag Jones, let Ford walk, and draft another pass rusher to get one more crack at it. Our shortcomings with Kpass and Speaks, at least to this point, make me weary that he will get it right on the third try, instead of just taking another hybrid LB that nobody can figure out what to do with. It'll be interesting to be sure.

[FAX]

Nnadi was a very good player. Speaks...well...wasn't. That being said, a lot of the young guys weren't on the field a lot, which Veach doesn't control - Andy and Bob do.

It all starts with getting better coaching. After that, we'll see. I'm not ready to count Veach out yet but yes, it HAS to improve.

I haven't lost faith and still have Veach ranked at only 120 Negative Veach Power Points. Considering the situation, that's not bad.

What bothers me is this; Veach made a clear statement that he was going to fix those two things. He was so convinced that he would do it that he stated it publicly and repeatedly. Okay, I get it. You have to speak things into existence. No problem. Plus, I think he tried.

However, you could look at it another way. You could say, "Who is this madman talking sh*t and not delivering on his declared promises?"

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle ... hoping for the best.

FAX

[gblowfish]

Speaks needs to get his doughey ass into the weight room and convert 20 lbs of Popeye's Chicken into 20 lbs of muscle. He reminds me of Ryan "Donut Boy" Sims. You can't be a fat bastard in the NFL unless you're a MASSIVE fat bastard like Vince Woolfork. And guys like that are few and far between.

[oldman]

While I agree personnel is part of the problem, the bulk of the blame needs to fall on Sutton. There is flat out no excuse for a TV color commentator to be able to call what play should be run against our D and be right as often as he was. If he can see it, Brady and Hoodie could, too. Don't give me "Sutton's scheme is complicated". It obviously wasn't and it hasn't been for quite some time.

[bowener]

Speaks needs to get his doughey ass into the weight room and convert 20 lbs of Popeye's Chicken into 20 lbs of muscle. He reminds me of Ryan "Donut Boy" Sims. You can't be a fat bastard in the NFL unless you're a MASSIVE fat bastard like Vince Woolfork. And guys like that are few and far between.

That is something that has troubled me as well. I figured in the preseason it was fine since he is just getting into the NFL conditioning program, but then he looked just as fat or fatter by the end of the season. Fucker better have a reason for that spare tire.

[RunKC]

Exactly.

Not only COULD Bob Sutton field a better defense with better talent - he DID. But that was in the past. Adjustments need to be made and he can't do it.

Start with him and then focus on the draft. Thinks can, and will, improve.

We lost because of Bob Sutton and Dee Ford. It wasn’t even the talent.

I am so pissed off that Sutton played cover 2 on the last drive. Those goddamn safeties were playing so deep that the middle of the damn field was open for Edelman. I don’t get it.

I hate that fucker so much. How could you not jam Edelman at the LOS? Why on Earth would you leave that guy in single coverage with nobody in the middle of the field over and over again?

Watch this and try not to break your tv.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TB12 went to work on third down during that last drive in KC! <br><br>How was he able to pick apart the Chiefs secondary? (via <a href="https://twitter.com/DCarr8?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DCarr8</a>)<br><br>📺: <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLTotalAccess?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLTotalAccess</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EverythingWeGot?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EverythingWeGot</a> <a href="https://t.co/OjzC0lMAAl">pic.twitter.com/OjzC0lMAAl</a></p>&mdash; NFL Network (@nflnetwork) <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/1087734268204335105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[htismaqe]

Speaks needs to get his doughey ass into the weight room and convert 20 lbs of Popeye's Chicken into 20 lbs of muscle. He reminds me of Ryan "Donut Boy" Sims. You can't be a fat bastard in the NFL unless you're a MASSIVE fat bastard like Vince Woolfork. And guys like that are few and far between.

He's also playing out of position, that's Bob's fault. (Or Veach's for thinking it could work.)

[Chiefnj2]

KC has some dumb ass DB's who still don't know what their assignments are.

[oldman]

I'm not putting much blame on Ford's offsides for the loss when we had chance after chance to stop them on 3rd and long and failed. Or when we got gashed with run after run up the middle for 7-8 yards. That crap rests on the DC's head for not adjusting to the situation.

[bevischief]

NO!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHO DID'T KNOW?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OK THE REFS....

[htismaqe]

KC has some dumb ass DB's who still don't know what their assignments are.

It wasn't just the DB's. Sitting at field level, you could see a lot of crap going on between plays. Xavier Williams spent a lot of time waving his arms and looking at the sidelines like he was lost. Nnadi did a couple of times. Their subs were off too - guys not knowing who was in and who was out.

It was really bad. Sutton has to go.

[O.city]

The Pats averaged 3.7 yards per rush. The Cheifs averaged 3.4

The Pats were able to get the Chiefs off the field on 3rd downs. That's what killed the Chiefs. We'd get them to 3rd down and they were 13-19 on 3rd down.

13-19. That's unreal.

They alex smith'd us.

[FAX]

It wasn't just the DB's. Sitting at field level, you could see a lot of crap going on between plays. Xavier Williams spent a lot of time waving his arms and looking at the sidelines like he was lost. Nnadi did a couple of times. Their subs were off too - guys not knowing who was in and who was out.

It was really bad. Sutton has to go.

You could see it on the television screen, as well.

FAX

[bevischief]

I have used toilet paper sale. Just cleaned by YOURANUS.

[Chiefnj2]

It wasn't just the DB's. Sitting at field level, you could see a lot of crap going on between plays. Xavier Williams spent a lot of time waving his arms and looking at the sidelines like he was lost. Nnadi did a couple of times. Their subs were off too - guys not knowing who was in and who was out.

It was really bad. Sutton has to go.

I'm sure they were all exhausted and wanted to sub out at times leading to some confusion.* I'm not excusing Sutton at all, but the Pats came out much better prepared, executed much better and were much more physical. Belichick came out with a game plan that held KC's rushing attack, Hill and Kelce to under 100 yards combined. Absolutely brilliant.

KC's defense didn't even try to chip guys at the line that I could see.

* Reid should have called a defensive timeout in OT to give them a breather.

[Gravedigger]

I'm not putting much blame on Ford's offsides for the loss when we had chance after chance to stop them on 3rd and long and failed. Or when we got gashed with run after run up the middle for 7-8 yards. That crap rests on the DC's head for not adjusting to the situation.

Yeah there's always things you look back on if you lose. An unfortunate mistake but there were many times where if one person did something different, we probably would've won the game. That's just the easiest to nitpick.

[Sassy Squatch]

It wasn't just the DB's. Sitting at field level, you could see a lot of crap going on between plays. Xavier Williams spent a lot of time waving his arms and looking at the sidelines like he was lost. Nnadi did a couple of times. Their subs were off too - guys not knowing who was in and who was out.

It was really bad. Sutton has to go.
I'm 99% sure I saw Hitchens or Ragland line up as a DE because whoever was supposed to be there was standing out in the middle of the field waving his arms like a lunatic.

[htismaqe]

I'm sure they were all exhausted and wanted to sub out at times leading to some confusion.* I'm not excusing Sutton at all, but the Pats came out much better prepared, executed much better and were much more physical. Belichick came out with a game plan that held KC's rushing attack, Hill and Kelce to under 100 yards combined. Absolutely brilliant.

KC's defense didn't even try to chip guys at the line that I could see.

* Reid should have called a defensive timeout in OT to give them a breather.

There was a ton of confusion in the first half, before they were exhausted. It was just crazy. I've never seen a team where one unit is so polished and well-oiled and the other is like the Bad News Bears.

[kcclone]

I'm not putting much blame on Ford's offsides for the loss when we had chance after chance to stop them on 3rd and long and failed. Or when we got gashed with run after run up the middle for 7-8 yards. That crap rests on the DC's head for not adjusting to the situation.



Totally agree with this. I don't get all the blame going to Ford for a number of reasons:

1. Ford was probably the #1 or #2 difference maker on our defense this year, so without him, we don't get the one seed.

2. It's a call that usually starts with a warning, but either way, it's not much different than an illegal procedure, etc. Penalties happen in football. Our team commits too many of them overall, it's not just a Dee Ford issue.

3. We had several chances to stop them before AND after the penalty, including over time.

[htismaqe]

Totally agree with this. I don't get all the blame going to Ford for a number of reasons:

1. Ford was probably the #1 or #2 difference maker on our defense this year, so without him, we don't get the one seed.

2. It's a call that usually starts with a warning, but either way, it's not much different than an illegal procedure, etc. Penalties happen in football. Our team commits too many of them overall, it's not just a Dee Ford issue.

3. We had several chances to stop them before AND after the penalty, including over time.

Yep.

[O.city]

Yeah, but we had them stopped. If he's not in the neutral zone, the game is over and we're headed to Atlanta.

That's not on the coaching or whatever. Line up behind the fucking ball man. This isn't rocket surgery.

[wisconsinchief]

Yeah, but we had them stopped. If he's not in the neutral zone, the game is over and we're headed to Atlanta.

That's not on the coaching or whatever. Line up behind the ****ing ball man. This isn't rocket surgery.

I've always been a little surprised by coaches pounding the fundamentals during summer camp. It's like, "OK guys, this is how you cover a wide receiver - or - this is how you shed a block." Seriously? But, that's what every team does and the successful teams do it best. That's just good coaching. But it also comes down to motivated players. Like Scott Frost said, "There are those that can't and then there are those that can, but won't."

Good coaches pound the fundamentals and also recognize those that can't or won't and then don't sign them to big contracts. Ultimately, it falls on coaching. This isn't brain science.

[Chiefshrink]

1. Ford was probably the #1 or #2 difference maker on our defense this year,

Doesn't matter!! Water under the bridge at this point. It is in that moment when IT COUNTS and matters THE MOST.:shrug:

2. It's a call that usually starts with a warning,

Even more INEXCUSABLE to commit a mental error that you actually have total control over that your opponent cannot influence whatsoever especially when being forewarned.:rolleyes:

3. We had several chances to stop them before AND after the penalty, including over time.

Andy,Bob and the staff knew the score going into this game how bad our defensive deficiencies were (i.e. lack of talent) therefore when you lack physical talent you must play smarter (not being out coached) with razor sharp focus with very good technique at all times to at least slow them down. That didn't happen.

And in spite of our defensive deficiencies(lack of talent and lack of good coaching) and our offense being 1/2 hamstrung the majority of the game we STILL put 28pts up to go ahead. And because Dee Ford was not mentally razor sharp focusing on what he could control in that moment which had nothing to do with our opponent's influence and why we are sitting at home.

Sure our defense should have never gotten to this point EVER !! I get your point! But you can't play that card because we knew going in what our challenges were therefore you control what you CAN CONTROL and that was NOT DONE !!


Like I said, BB knows his opponent offensively and defensively better than they know themselves most of the time and plays chess against himself better than any coach when it comes to prepping and what to throw at his opponent both offensively and especially defensively to surprise his opposition. Andy and Bob know Bill does this and they did not prepare for this and why our D players were lost most of the game.

My point is control what you can control when those crucial moments come when going against a superior opponent and we did not especially Dee Ford and we paid a dear price.

We were given a gift by our opponent and we chose not to receive it.

[Eleazar]

Yeah, but we had them stopped. If he's not in the neutral zone, the game is over and we're headed to Atlanta.

That's not on the coaching or whatever. Line up behind the ****ing ball man. This isn't rocket surgery.

And where would we have been if you took away Ford's 13.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles?

[Chiefshrink]

That's not on the coaching or whatever.

I totally agree with what you said in your full post but the reason I sectioned this partial statement of yours was, I wonder how come a coach wasn't watching for this very thing to make sure the players were lined up correctly? Or was there a coach screaming at him to move back ? Now with that asked, this is still on Dee no doubt and is on him totally BUT like I said it is all about preparation and if I am AR I appoint someone to watch for these things because this is a HUGE GAME and he knows Dee is not the sharpest tool in the shed.:thumb: You know the very simple act of calling a timeout in OT to give your D a breather which should have happened but didn't as Collinsworth and someone else on this board pointed out.

My point again, "things you can control" in the heat of the moment.;)

[Chiefshrink]

And where would we have been if you took away Ford's 13.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles?

Apples to oranges my friend.

Football is an existential game that is played "in the moment" and when that moment comes you can't rely on the past to perform in the present, but rather you must perform "in the present" in that moment when it presents itself". And why I started a thread on game day, called "Greatness is a choice".

Dee made his choice to be careless rather than great when it counted the most.:rolleyes:

[Mecca]

I think we should pay Dee Ford, we need a really highly paid defense that can't perform.

Pay Chris Jones too, we'll have a super highly paid defense that still sucks, it's a great strategy.