"The ball can be moving and touch the ground and it's still possible to be a catch...

[RealSNR]

Since fucking when?

In my entire adult life of watching football, through multiple changes of definition on what constitutes a catch, the one thing that has stayed constant is if you have yet to establish possession, and then the ball touches the ground, it's not a catch.

When the fuck was possession established on that 3rd down review?

And the fishiness of when Gene Steratorre gets on and the FIRST THING HE SAYS is, "Keep in mind that the ball can still be moving and even touch the ground, and it's still possible for this to be considered a catch..."

I'm not a "this game is rigged" asshole, but I need someone to educate me on this one. I still don't get it, because the CBS crew did a fucking shitty ass job of explaining it, and to be quite honest, I've never once seen an instance where something like that is considered a catch.

[Flying High D]

Because Chiefs

[stevieray]

I'm not a conspiracy guy either, but both number one seeds lost in OT at home with bs officiating, late in the games, that determined the outcome.

Make matters worse, Goodell was @ Arrowhead yesterday.

[Rain Man]

I'm not a conspiracy guy either, but both number one seeds lost in OT at home with bs officiating, late in the games, that determined the outcome.

Make matters worse, Goodell was @ Arrowhead yesterday.

I wish we could see video of Goodell at the moment the game ended. Ten to one he was grinning and cheering. Then he and Kraft went out and bought hookers together.

[-King-]

Since last year after the Jesse James catch. Catch rules were changed in the off season

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Since last year after the James Jones catch. Catch rules were changed in the off season

This

[Frazod]

I wish we could see video of Goodell at the moment the game ended. Ten to one he was grinning and cheering. Then he and Kraft went out and bought hookers together.

BUT THE NFL HATES THE PATRIOTS!/Every dickbag Cheatriots fan on earth :rolleyes:

[stevieray]

I wish we could see video of Goodell at the moment the game ended. Ten to one he was grinning and cheering. Then he and Kraft went out and bought hookers together.

....he was even out in the lots , with Clark.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's judgement call...but everybody at the bar last night thought it was a bad call

[FAX]

LOL

How is that a "judgment" call, Mr. Garcia Bronco? Can't wait to hear ...

FAX

[GloucesterChief]

Ball touches turf = no catch. That is the way it should be.

[DRM08]

I'm not a conspiracy guy either, but both number one seeds lost in OT at home with bs officiating, late in the games, that determined the outcome.

Make matters worse, Goodell was @ Arrowhead yesterday.

I don't buy the conspiracy angle. Refs helped the Chiefs down the field for a TD late in the game with multiple penalties on the Patriots.

Chiefs made a lot of silly mistakes through the game and it cost them at the end. Just need better execution next time.

[Skyy God]

I wish we could see video of Goodell at the moment the game ended. Ten to one he was grinning and cheering. Then he and Kraft went out and bought hookers together.

They’re called escorts at those prices.....

[RealSNR]

Since last year after the Jesse James catch. Catch rules were changed in the off season

What is the rationale behind it?

[FAX]

I don't see the controversy here. The ball cannot touch the ground before the receiver has control (i.e. possession). Possession/control is well defined at this point.

So, if the receiver is in the process of securing the football, the football cannot touch the ground. If it does, the pass is incomplete. Simple.

Possession and control must be established and the ground cannot be used to gain either possession or control. Any official who says otherwise should be tied to a tree, slathered with molasses, and given over to the fire ants for a week.

FAX

[JakeF]

What is the rationale behind it?
Everyone was complaining about not knowing what a catch was every game, every week. So the league started trying to simplify the rules. The ball being able to touch the ground as long as the player still had control was one of the first changes.

[TimBone]

Since last year after the Jesse James catch. Catch rules were changed in the off seasonYep. That being said, I've still seen it go both ways this year. All it's added is another level of subjectivity.

[-King-]

What is the rationale behind it?

Because the catch rule was the greatest debate for the last 10 years.

[TimBone]

Honestly though, and I say this with peace and love, the refs did not beat the Chiefs yesterday. Tom Brady didn't even beat the Chiefs. Hell, his interceptions are what kept the Chiefs in it. Reid and Sutton were thoroughly outcoached by Belichik.

[-King-]

Yep. That being said, I've still seen it go both ways this year. All it's added is another level of subjectivity.

Catches will always be like that now. Having access to instant HD replay and being able to slow things down to .25 speed and zoom 500x in brings a lot of scrutiny to catches. Nothing the league can do to make it better IMO

[GloryDayz]

NFL officiating is a tough job, they have to make up rules on the fly and that ain't always easy..

Signed,

Mr. Forward Progress

[-King-]

Honestly though, and I say this with peace and love, the refs did not beat the Chiefs yesterday. Tom Brady didn't even beat the Chiefs. Hell, his interceptions are what kept the Chiefs in it. Reid and Sutton were thoroughly outcoached by Belichik.

You can't get outcoached in a game where you lose 31-37. If Belichick had thoroughly outcoached Reid, the chiefs would have never came back to take the lead twice or tie it up at the end of the 4th. If the coin had landed tails, we'd be praising Reid for his halftime adjustments and coming back against Brady and Belichick

[Papi]

When that much of the ball touches the ground... no.

[TambaBerry]

I fully believe that the ball was coming out and if there wasn't the ground right there that the ball slips out. It was obvious to me that the ground helped him catch that and it's another bullshit call that is unbelievable that you can review that and still call it a catch

[FAX]

I fully believe that the ball was coming out and if there wasn't the ground right there that the ball slips out. It was obvious to me that the ground helped him catch that and it's another bullshit call that is unbelievable that you can review that and still call it a catch

The astonishing part is that the rule is very clear regarding the ground and gaining possession. It's not ambiguous.

FAX

[DanT]

I agreed with all of the final calls on the reviewed plays. The refs blew the roughing the passer penalty on Ford, but mistakes happen. The refs did not decide this game.

A player can clearly be in control of a moving ball throughout the time it touches the ground.

[GloryDayz]

When that much of the ball touches the ground... no.

I'd say we're going to get an apology letter from the NY office, but evidently the league is lawyering-up and not admitting to anything as it relates to their crappy officials being crappy and looking like they're playing favorites.

[stevieray]

I agreed with all of the final calls on the reviewed plays. The refs blew the roughing the passer penalty on Ford, but mistakes happen. The refs did not decide this game.

A player can clearly be in control of a moving ball throughout the time it touches the ground.

eh, being semi compressed for a millisec between your shoulder pad and the top of your wrist while touching the ground isn't possession, IMO.

[stevieray]

I don't buy the conspiracy angle



...I don't either.

:shrug:

[RealSNR]

A player can clearly be in control of a moving ball throughout the time it touches the ground.

How? That's not control. If the ball is moving and you never established possession, and then it touches the ground, how the fuck is that being clearly in control?

[TambaBerry]

I'd say we're going to get an apology letter from the NY office, but evidently the league is lawyering-up and not admitting to anything as it relates to their crappy officials being crappy and looking like they're playing favorites.

Is that true that they're lawyering up? I wish Hunt had the balls of the Saints owner. Calling out the NFL like he is. Things absolutely need to change. Everything I have read in comment sections about these two games are calling out the NFL

[DanT]

How? That's not control. If the ball is moving and you never established possession, and then it touches the ground, how the fuck is that being clearly in control?

The issue is whether the player has secured control of the ball before contacting the ground and does not lose control while surviving the ground.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/

[Lightrise]

for what its worth...I think the LT was off the line of scrimmage on the same play they flagged Ford. I believe the rule states his helmet must not be further back than the center's belt. The Patriots frequently cheat in this way.

[GloryDayz]

Is that true that they're lawyering up? I wish Hunt had the balls of the Saints owner. Calling out the NFL like he is. Things absolutely need to change. Everything I have read in comment sections about these two games are calling out the NFL

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/20/nfl-decides-against-issuing-statement-admitting-error-in-rams-saints-for-now/

[Why Not?]

You can't get outcoached in a game where you lose 31-37.

That’s not true. If you look at the final score only, even including the luck of the coin toss, sure. But this game was lost in the first half. I don’t even think Andy Andied that much but there were two calls where he totally fucked up. Knowing this would be a shootout and knowing how important it is for the Chiefs to play with a lead, you take the opening kick. Andy didn’t and Hoodie and Co organized an 8 minute TD drive. Then, you gladly go on down 7-0 after playing the worst half in years. Andy called the timeout and Belichik shoved it up his ass. Patriots took away Kelce and Hill and ran the ball 48 times. Chiefs took away....Um...Dwayne Allen and didn’t let Pat be Pat until the second half. Andy got owned by the GOAT and only the pure, unadulterated bad assness of PMII made it even look any different

[Bugeater]

Everyone was complaining about not knowing what a catch was every game, every week. So the league started trying to simplify the rules. The ball being able to touch the ground as long as the player still had control was one of the first changes.
NOW WE HAVE EVEN LESS OF AN IDEA OF WHAT A CATCH IS

[GloryDayz]

for what its worth...I think the LT was off the line of scrimmage on the same play they flagged Ford. I believe the rule states his helmet must not be further back than the center's belt. The Patriots frequently cheat in this way.

It's all you offered, so that's all we had to go on.

And you're going to argue legal pick plays over illegal pick plays. Gimmie a break, either they're legal or not, don't even try to claim we picked them more, or worse, that they did us. That ship doesn't float...

Dee was lined up in the neutral zone, yes, but the Pat's left tackle is equally lined up illegally. Or are you going to now, right on cue, going to give the officials your time-honored break? Basically they fucked us on the Dee Ford play too.. This is going to kill you, but here are the rules, and there's the picture. Go ahead, tell us all how that happens on every play...



http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/6_2013_Definitions.pdf

Yes...

[Bugeater]

Uhhh....there's too much subjectivity as to what a catch is...the NFL's solution...add yet another layer of subjectivity!!!

[Why Not?]

for what its worth...I think the LT was off the line of scrimmage on the same play they flagged Ford. I believe the rule states his helmet must not be further back than the center's belt. The Patriots frequently cheat in this way.

Wouldn’t have mattered. Even if they called it, it would’ve been a redo.

[TimBone]

You can't get outcoached in a game where you lose 31-37. If Belichick had thoroughly outcoached Reid, the chiefs would have never came back to take the lead twice or tie it up at the end of the 4th. If the coin had landed tails, we'd be praising Reid for his halftime adjustments and coming back against Brady and BelichickI disagree. Like I said, Brady doesn't throw those two picks, and it's really not close. I don't care enough to argue about it, though.

[TimBone]

Catches will always be like that now. Having access to instant HD replay and being able to slow things down to .25 speed and zoom 500x in brings a lot of scrutiny to catches. Nothing the league can do to make it better IMO

Yep. I agree with all of that. Doesn't mean I like it, though. After every catch replay, you just don't know what the hell the refs are gonna say coming out of the booth. Even as recently as just a few years ago, a group of guys could come to a pretty accurate decision of what the refs were gonna say after a replay. Now, it's a crapshoot every time.

[DanT]

After landing, the ball did move but that looked to me to have happened after it was no longer on the ground. Hogan was rotating his body when the ball moved out of secure control, but that was after it was touching ground. I have yet to see video where the ball was both touching the ground and out of Hogan's secure control, so the reviewed call was correct, in my opinion.

i should clarify that when I posted earlier, I interpreted the adjective 'moving' in the physics sense, but now I realize some of you may mean it to mean when the ball jiggles out of control, like it does when Hogan rotates. That kind of jiggling can't happen when the ball touches the ground! It has to be secure when touching the ground, but it can be moving in the physics sense of translational motion.

[kjwood75nro]

BUT THE NFL HATES THE PATRIOTS!/Every dickbag Cheatriots fan on earth :rolleyes:Bill Burr was doing that on his latest podcast.

"NFL hates the Pats because Deflategate and Goodell lied in court and Brady was suspended...and football sucks now anyway because no defense."

Then unironically says how it's not easy being a Pats fan because of all the mockery he receives after they lose a Super Bowl.

[-King-]

That’s not true. If you look at the final score only, even including the luck of the coin toss, sure. But this game was lost in the first half. I don’t even think Andy Andied that much but there were two calls where he totally fucked up. Knowing this would be a shootout and knowing how important it is for the Chiefs to play with a lead, you take the opening kick. Andy didn’t and Hoodie and Co organized an 8 minute TD drive. Then, you gladly go on down 7-0 after playing the worst half in years. Andy called the timeout and Belichik shoved it up his ass. Patriots took away Kelce and Hill and ran the ball 48 times. Chiefs took away....Um...Dwayne Allen and didn’t let Pat be Pat until the second half. Andy got owned by the GOAT and only the pure, unadulterated bad assness of PMII made it even look any different
So did Bill get outcoached in the second half when we outscored the Patriots 31-17?

[-King-]

Bill Burr was doing that on his latest podcast.

"NFL hates the Pats because Deflategate and Goodell lied in court and Brady was suspended...and football sucks now anyway because no defense."

Then unironically says how it's not easy being a Pats fan because of all the mockery he receives after they lose a Super Bowl.

I hate how he does the underdog shit when it comes to the Patriots. To the point I was thinking about writing to the podcast for the first time about it

[Indian Chief]

When that much of the ball touches the ground... no.

I fully believe that the ball was coming out and if there wasn't the ground right there that the ball slips out. It was obvious to me that the ground helped him catch that and it's another bullshit call that is unbelievable that you can review that and still call it a catch

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/tZqvwkP/ball.jpg" alt="ball" border="0"></a>

Take a look at that picture. If you remove the field and suspend him in mid-air, that ball falls out of his possession. He can't control that without help from the ground.

[Mecca]

Also when he rolls over his hands come completely off the ball.

[Demonpenz]

Stop the run don't be offsides defend simple slants and screen passes.

[007]

Stop the run don't be offsides defend simple slants and screen passes.

It sounds so simple when you put it that way. LMAO

[007]

Uhhh....there's too much subjectivity as to what a catch is...the NFL's solution...add yet another layer of subjectivity!!!

Wish they would go back to catch rules in the 80s

[jd1020]

After landing, the ball did move but that looked to me to have happened after it was no longer on the ground. Hogan was rotating his body when the ball moved out of secure control, but that was after it was touching ground. I have yet to see video where the ball was both touching the ground and out of Hogan's secure control, so the reviewed call was correct, in my opinion.

i should clarify that when I posted earlier, I interpreted the adjective 'moving' in the physics sense, but now I realize some of you may mean it to mean when the ball jiggles out of control, like it does when Hogan rotates. That kind of jiggling can't happen when the ball touches the ground! It has to be secure when touching the ground, but it can be moving in the physics sense of translational motion.

If at any point the ball hits the ground and the player doesnt maintain complete control of the ball it's not a catch.

Also going back to the Ford play, its irrelevant where the LT is lined up because it would just be offsetting and the interception would still be nullified. Dee Ford is simply a fucking moron.

[jd1020]

Section A of the catch rule clearly states that a player must secure the ball before it hits the ground. Theres no fucking way Hogan secured that ball before it hit the ground. It was simply bullshit.

[GloryDayz]

Section A of the catch rule clearly states that a player must secure the ball before it hits the ground. Theres no fucking way Hogan secured that ball before it hit the ground. It was simply bullshit.

Apply the other rule, the "Kraft's Team" rule (All officials must favor Kraft, BB, and Tom-Terrific, and wear Pat's glasses), and it makes sense...

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/collegefanfare/new-england-patriots-game-day-shades-f-3.jpg