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View Full Version : Chiefs Defense doesn't win championships. Hard-ass coaches do.


TinyEvel
02-04-2019, 12:44 PM
We were one Dee Ford "Was I?" away from the Big Dance and I agree that we would have beaten the Rams last night.

One thing for sure. Throughout the entire playoffs, Belichick had his team damn ready. Brady in a post game interview said something like: "Its a competitive environment, and coach...he makes it tough, but you have to be ready for whatever comes at you"

Kind of like the old statement that the way boot camp in the army was designed to be so hard that war was (metaphorically) easy.

They punched Chargers in the mouth and got 35 points on them by the half.

They punched us in the mouth, kept the ball from us and blanked us for a half. Every guy on the offense had to fight for every yard off the line at the snap.

They did the same to the Rams. Rams just didn't have it in them to get 31 points.

Sutton was a "nice guy." Reid is a nice guy. Not saying he has to go full Chucky, but these coaches could take a clue from Belichick the Sith Hoodie.

The whole "we are an underdog" attitude before the AFCCG was designed to motivate them mentally to do what they did they night. We need that now, to win next year.

A friend of mine, talking about our game said, "I think in their mind the Chiefs had already won their Super Bowl. They embarrassed the Colts, AFCCG was at Arrowhead for the first time, They were on par with Bill/Brady. They were happy instead of hungry and mad."

Think about that.

The royals 90 feet from Victory helped motivate them to the WS trophy the next year. Chiefs need the same.

Why Not?
02-04-2019, 12:52 PM
Well....let’s see.....if you throw out having to have won at least one SB as part of the criteria, you could argue that Belichik(a known prick who would cut his grandson)and Reid(a jovial, everybody loves him type)are the two most successful coaches over the last two decades. One has 6 rings and 9 appearances and the other has one appearance and lots of friends. So, um, yeah I would agree with the OP.

Red Dawg
02-04-2019, 12:54 PM
Keeping the same shit players for years doesn't win either. We do that way too much and we pay way too much. Dump the big three and cut your losses.

DeepPurple
02-04-2019, 01:01 PM
The Chiefs would of beat the Rams and the Saints would of beaten the Pats, so the wrong teams played last night. I think a Chiefs/Saints Super Bowl would of been a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

Brady threw only one pass his rookie year and won the Super Bowl his second year after he filled in for an injured Bledsoe. They beat the Rams in the Super Bowl on a last second field goal. Mahomes played a full game his rookie year and replaced a veteran his second year and won the AFC West and was one play from winning the AFC Championship and going to the Super Bowl. I would say fans of most any other NFL team would be glad to be in the Chiefs position right now.

Chargem
02-04-2019, 01:10 PM
I think you're confusing dumb ass fans who thought a super bowl appearance was guaranteed with the actual coaching staff and players, who I'm sure busted their asses in preparation for the game against the Pats.

The concept that being a hard ass is somehow better is inherently ridiculous. Anyone can be a hard ass, it's just being an asshole. Not everyone can be a genius, which is what Belichick is.

IowaHawkeyeChief
02-04-2019, 01:15 PM
Well....let’s see.....if you throw out having to have won at least one SB as part of the criteria, you could argue that Belichik(a known prick who would cut his grandson)and Reid(a jovial, everybody loves him type)are the two most successful coaches over the last two decades. One has 6 rings and 9 appearances and the other has one appearance and lots of friends. So, um, yeah I would agree with the OP.

One had a HOF/MVP franchise QB for the last 17 years, one had Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith filtered with some others...

Reid will be just fine, if you learned anything from last night, it's that we adjusted on our 3rd drive and scored 31 points on the Pats. The Rams punted 8 consecutive drives with the longest drive being 5 plays and 23 yards.

Why Not?
02-04-2019, 01:21 PM
One had a HOF/MVP franchise QB for the last 17 years, one had Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith filtered with some others...

Reid will be just fine, if you learned anything from last night, it's that we adjusted on our 3rd drive and scored 31 points on the Pats. The Rams punted 8 consecutive drives with the longest drive being 5 plays and 23 yards.

Sure, but what’s that old Parcells line?

“You are what your record says you are”

BucEyedPea
02-04-2019, 01:24 PM
How many Championships and SBs did Belichick win before he teamed up with Brady?

Oh, NONE!

In fact he was fired from Cleveland for his losing record.

Why Not?
02-04-2019, 01:28 PM
Nobody is arguing Brady’s greatness. If you guys don’t think Belichick is a genius of a coach, I don’t know what to tell you.

Hoover
02-04-2019, 01:29 PM
Sorry. Its more complicated then that. Otherwise why didn't Marty win it all, or Gunther?

bowener
02-04-2019, 01:35 PM
How many Championships and SBs did Belichick win before he teamed up with Brady?

Oh, NONE!

In fact he was fired from Cleveland for his losing record.

He won with the Giants.

The Chiefs would of beat the Rams and the Saints would of beaten the Pats, so the wrong teams played last night. I think a Chiefs/Saints Super Bowl would of been a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

Brady threw only one pass his rookie year and won the Super Bowl his second year after he filled in for an injured Bledsoe. They beat the Rams in the Super Bowl on a last second field goal. Mahomes played a full game his rookie year and replaced a veteran his second year and won the AFC West and was one play from winning the AFC Championship and going to the Super Bowl. I would say fans of most any other NFL team would be glad to be in the Chiefs position right now.

Saints would have faired about as well as the Rams. Brees' arm was shit after about week 10. He took a hit and something was off since then. He would have been without the deep ball and much outside the numbers beyond 15 yards. Saints also wouldn't have created the amount of pressure that Fowler, Suh, and Donald created.

It sucks, but the Pats defense was incredible in the postseason.

BucEyedPea
02-04-2019, 01:37 PM
Nobody is arguing Brady’s greatness. If you guys don’t think Belichick is a genius of a coach, I don’t know what to tell you.

Who said BB wasn't a genious?

Just citing his actual record with other QBs/teams.

Why Not?
02-04-2019, 01:40 PM
Who said BB wasn't a genious?

Just citing his actual record with other QBs/teams.

Your original post certainly could not be taken as anything other than a slight at Belichick. Which is odd since I know you’re a Pats fan.

BucEyedPea
02-04-2019, 01:41 PM
He won with the Giants.

He was NOT the head coach tho'. He was a defensive assistant and special teams coach.

It sucks, but the Pats defense was incredible in the postseason.

Doesn't suck for me. However, I wouldn't say the Ram's defense sucked either. Just the Pat's D was better.

BucEyedPea
02-04-2019, 01:42 PM
Your original post certainly could not be taken as anything other than a slight at Belichick. Which is odd since I know you’re a Pats fan.

I simply asked about his actual record as a matter of fact. And it's nothing compared to his teaming up with Brady. He has been a genius with the Patriots.

Reerun_KC
02-04-2019, 01:47 PM
Keeping the same shit players for years doesn't win either. We do that way too much and we pay way too much. Dump the big three and cut your losses.

Championship teams don’t resign and hang on to jersey fans favorite players way past their usefulness or try to get that ring for some aging vet that can’t play.

Championship teams build for championships.

TinyEvel
02-04-2019, 02:00 PM
Well after the game Reid said "If we don't win the Super Bowl next year the season is not a success"

Love the absoluteness of it, hope they follow though.

Angry fan
02-04-2019, 03:59 PM
How many Championships and SBs did Belichick win before he teamed up with Brady?

Oh, NONE!

In fact he was fired from Cleveland for his losing record.

He was fired from Cleveland because of optics. Not because he was a terrible coach. Just because the media are little bitches and didn't like his no nonsense approach.

Back in 1995, believe it or not, the Browns were actually one of the pre-season Super Bowl favorites. The Browns with Belichick were coming off a 11-5 season having lost to the Steelers in the divisional round. Then Art Modell bolted for Baltimore and a new stadium. Greedy owners gonna be greedy. This sent the team spiraling out of control. Too much for the young Belichick to handle. But there wasn't actually a team in that situation at that time for an owner to announce mid season they're leaving for another city.

htismaqe
02-04-2019, 03:59 PM
Bill Belichick is a .450 coach without Brady. Such a genious.

Angry fan
02-04-2019, 04:02 PM
Bill Belichick is a .450 coach without Brady. Such a genious.

Well Belichick would be the first one to give credit to the players, so he wouldn't disagree with you. What Belichick does best is put his players in a position to succeed. Basically using their strengths. But yeah Belichick wouldn't be as great without Brady. No doubt about it. But Brady wouldn't be as good without Belichick either. It's the perfect storm. You need both for it to become that dominant.

bricks
02-04-2019, 04:47 PM
Honestly I hate this talk about defenses win championships, need a franchise QB to win a championship, hard ass coaching blah, blah, blah.....Its all narrow minded ways of thinking.

The bottomline is, so many factors go into winning or losing.

You could have an amazing team but one Sunday the team just ****ed up and played a bad game. Even though they were the favorites; any given Sunday suggested they lost. Or, they could have a game taken away from with piss poor refereeing?

A team could be 9-7 and then the playoffs roll along and they happen to get hot and be that cinderella. They put together a string of wins, play excellent smart, disciplined, mistake free football, have a couple of bounces go their way along with some good coaching. And all of a sudden, that team looks unbeatable.

The way I like to think is, the more balanced a team is the better but lots of stuff has to be right and go their way and the rest takes care of itself.

-King-
02-04-2019, 04:51 PM
That's why the chiefs won all those Superbowls with Marty

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-04-2019, 06:07 PM
Honestly I hate this talk about defenses win championships, need a franchise QB to win a championship, hard ass coaching blah, blah, blah.....Its all narrow minded ways of thinking.




The way I like to think is, the more balanced a team is the better but lots of stuff has to be right and go their way and the rest takes care of itself.

You need both PLUS smart coaching, and the Chiefs have been proving it to you for decades.

Hog's Gone Fishin
02-04-2019, 06:24 PM
Once again , Mahomes has put up the two best 2nd halfs EVER against a Belechick team.

The Edelman punt muff should have NEVER been overturned. There was NOT clear evidence he did not touch the ball.

Dee Ford cost us the win by being a fucking dumbass.

We should have won that game and then you dipshits wouldn't be talking about how great BB is.

Fuck the Patriots. It's always handed to them.

MarkDavis'Haircut
02-04-2019, 06:26 PM
The Hoodie did decently coaching for a bankrupt and idiotic owner in Cleveland.

A Defiant Goose
02-04-2019, 06:59 PM
The Chiefs would of beat the Rams and the Saints would of beaten the Pats, so the wrong teams played last night. I think a Chiefs/Saints Super Bowl would of been a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

Brady threw only one pass his rookie year and won the Super Bowl his second year after he filled in for an injured Bledsoe. They beat the Rams in the Super Bowl on a last second field goal. Mahomes played a full game his rookie year and replaced a veteran his second year and won the AFC West and was one play from winning the AFC Championship and going to the Super Bowl. I would say fans of most any other NFL team would be glad to be in the Chiefs position right now.

That's one fuck of a presumption right there

Angry fan
02-04-2019, 11:30 PM
Once again , Mahomes has put up the two best 2nd halfs EVER against a Belechick team.

The Edelman punt muff should have NEVER been overturned. There was NOT clear evidence he did not touch the ball.



Uh, the NFL Films cameras clearly showed it never touched Edelman. So they got it right. Did they make the right call? Well that depends, does the NFL officiating have access to the NFL Films cameras?

UK_Chief
02-05-2019, 12:37 AM
Kind of agree with your buddy, getting to the AFCCG was basically our super bowl and it just looked like the team eased up a notch, especially first half. They adjusted second half after being punched in the mouth but it was too late.

I hate to drop a well worn Reid-ism but I think we will learn from this one and the monkey is off our back now.

stevegroganfan
02-05-2019, 04:06 AM
Patriots fan here. It is obvious that Reid is a very good coach.

The question I would have as a Chiefs fan is how intelligent/ruthless the Chiefs are in making smart salary cap situations.

That has been Patriots key to their success. 3 very good players often better than 1 great player and 2 below average ones. Literally over 18 years, they really just have one bad FA signing that was expensive that was a complete dud. Part of that is usually focusing on singles/doubles in FA and only going after stars when you are quite convinced they are worth the premium. Revis signed to only one year since he took discount. Gilmore signed long term since he was young.

Obviously not every Patriot player lives up to his contract but under BB the misses tend to not be that bad.

If a player is playing for stats, BB is very wiling to trade him in a heartbeat. He would rather just have smart intelligent robots/players out their that do their jobs in a tough minded manner.

I am not saying Chiefs players are selfish but when Randy Moss kind of turned selfish again and didn't want to change his expectations as a player after he slowed down, I think he was shipped out.

I am not saying BB would do it but with the way he thinks.....if he thought Mahomes could make below average/average receivers very good, he would be willing to trade those receivers for offensive lineman and defensive players.

Cooks isn't great but he was Patriots best outside receiver since Randy Moss. Patriots traded him for a first round pick since Cooks was due for a big contract and BB would rather invest money elsewhere.

I am not saying he wouldn't invest in Tyreek Hill but he wouldn't let fan sentiment get in the way.

Patriots are the organization that got rid of Adam Vinateri after he asked for too much money.

I think if the Chiefs act that ruthlessly and have competent management, they will win a title with Reid within 3-4 years as long as Mahomes is healthy.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-05-2019, 04:12 AM
Lack of ruthlessness has long been a pox upon our house. I attribute it to a few different things but the main issues are:

1) No true franchise QB with which to properly weigh/evaluate corresponding talent, and

2) Equating a "classy, well run franchise" with keeping players past their expiration dates for the purposes of pleasing fans.

Red Dawg
02-05-2019, 06:27 AM
Bill Belichick is a .450 coach without Brady. Such a genious.

It's Kraft controling Roger who in turn controls the refs. Bill is overrated and so is Brady.

Hammock Parties
02-05-2019, 07:58 AM
It had nothing to do with who had a harder ass coach.

It had everything to do with a huge lack of talent and brains on defense.

We didn't have the talent to cover Gronk or Edelman one on one and Sutton was too dumb to adjust on key downs.

And Dee Ford is an obvious dumbass.

crayzkirk
02-05-2019, 08:02 AM
Patriots fan here. It is obvious that Reid is a very good coach.

The question I would have as a Chiefs fan is how intelligent/ruthless the Chiefs are in making smart salary cap situations.
...
I think if the Chiefs act that ruthlessly and have competent management, they will win a title with Reid within 3-4 years as long as Mahomes is healthy.

I deleted part of your post because it was long... Anyway, one of the things that has helped the Patriots immensely is the fact that their franchise QB takes much less than what other QBs make. This leaves a lot of money on the table for other players. Combine this with the fact that the AFC East hasn't been very competitive gives the Patriots another advantage.

The Chiefs 'tried' win at any cost near the end of Marty's tenure. It didn't work out well.

I also think the NFL is a lot like NASCAR; if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying. I don't think the Chiefs try hard enough...

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:04 AM
How many Championships and SBs did Belichick win before he teamed up with Brady?

Oh, NONE!

In fact he was fired from Cleveland for his losing record.

Bit bizarre and cherry picked. The last Browns head coach to go to the playoffs, or win a playoff game is STILL Bill Belichick.

Brady is the GOAT, I certainly support that, but is he really THAT much better than Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, etc.? I'll certainly take Brady over those guys, but I think the margin of difference between Brady and those guys is closer than the margin between Belichick and everyone else. Between the coaching and the team-building aspects of what BB does, he's way ahead of the pack. It's not about putting together a roster of all-pros (not that anyone would turn them down), it's about putting together the best 53 man roster to win games.

Or, as Bum Philips said about Don Shula (paraphrased): "He can take his'n and beat your'n, or take your'n and beat his'n."

htismaqe
02-05-2019, 08:08 AM
It had nothing to do with who had a harder ass coach.

It had everything to do with a huge lack of talent and brains on defense.

We didn't have the talent to cover Gronk or Edelman one on one and Sutton was too dumb to adjust on key downs.

And Dee Ford is an obvious dumbass.

:clap::clap::clap:

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:09 AM
He was NOT the head coach tho'. He was a defensive assistant and special teams coach.

Yeesh. Way to downplay Belichick. He was the defensive coordinator one of whose game plans is literally in the Hall of Fame. :rolleyes:

The Patriots under Parcells:

1993: 5-11
1994: 10-6 (lost in the playoffs to Belichick's Browns)
1995: 6-10

Belichick joins the Patriots:

1996: 11-5 -- go to the Super Bowl

The dude has been in the NFL since 1977 and has gone to ELEVEN Super Bowls. 20% of all Super Bowls ever played had BB as a head coach or senior assistant. Think about that.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:17 AM
Bill Belichick is a .450 coach without Brady. Such a genious.


Browns:

1990 (pre-Belichick): 3-13
1991 (Belichick): 6-10
1992: (Belichick): 7-9
1993: (Belichick): 7-9
1994: 11-5, won playoff game (to this day the last one the Browns have won)
1995: Modell announces mid-season that the Browns are moving. City/team spiral to an ugly 5-11 finish


Meanwhile, Peyton/Brees/Rodgers COMBINED have gone to fewer Super Bowls in a combined 44 seasons, and have won fewer Super Bowls, than BB/Brady have in their 17 healthy seasons together. I think Tom Brady is the f'ing GOAT, but is he really light years better than those guys? Or is the difference that given a GREAT QB, BB makes much more out of it than those other coaches can?

Hammock Parties
02-05-2019, 08:18 AM
When the Chiefs were beating the Patriots in 2014 and 2017 it had precious little to do with attitude or who had the smarter coach.

It had everything to do with talent.

htismaqe
02-05-2019, 08:19 AM
When the Chiefs were beating the Patriots in 2014 and 2017 it had precious little to do with attitude or who had the smarter coach.

It had everything to do with talent.

Yep.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:24 AM
It's Kraft controling Roger who in turn controls the refs. Bill is overrated and so is Brady.

That must be why that incandescent fuck stole two first round picks from the Patriots. Because Kraft "controls" him.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-05-2019, 08:25 AM
When the Chiefs were beating the Patriots in 2014 and 2017 it had precious little to do with attitude or who had the smarter coach.

It had everything to do with talent.

True. And yet, when Buttons inherited a SMÖRGÅSBORD of defensive players coming in, the best he could achieve was roughly #15 overall.( I think )

Coaching DOES matter.

htismaqe
02-05-2019, 08:28 AM
True. And yet, when Buttons inherited a SMÖRGÅSBORD of defensive players coming in, the best he could achieve was roughly #15 overall.( I think )

Coaching DOES matter.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

2013 - 5th in points, 24th in yards
2014 - 2nd in points, 7th in yards
2015 - 3rd in points, 7th in yards
2016 - 7th in points, 24th in yards

It's the best 4-year stretch of Chiefs defense in the last 40 years. Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:32 AM
When the Chiefs were beating the Patriots in 2014 and 2017 it had precious little to do with attitude or who had the smarter coach.

It had everything to do with talent.

It's completely bizarre to think that every game is won by the team with more talent on the field. Coaching doesn't matter?

Teams also change over the course of a season. The team you have in September is NEVER the team you have in January. Between injuries and personnel moves, plus COACHING, the team almost inevitably improves, but the team that improves the most (relative to other teams, all of which are likely improving barring catastrophic injuries) is the team with the better coaching staff.

Not just X's and O's, but:

1. realizing strengths and weaknesses of your own team,

2. recognizing and eliminating tells and mitigating tendencies,

3. deciding which plays that aren't working should be eliminated, and which ones should be re-emphasized and better taught so they will work better on game day

4. deciding which personnel packages work best -- e.g. which groupings of players can best perform any given assignment or style of play.

5. matching plays to personnel packages, and vice versa.

6. coaching up players to eliminate mistakes, in every area from the fundamentals to mental errors to play-specific acts.

7. using whatever techniques you can to keep both the team morale and effort level high despite outside distractions, the long, grueling grind of the year, etc.

Or, you know, it's nothing but "talent"... :rolleyes:

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 08:34 AM
Sorry, but you're wrong.

2013 - 5th in points, 24th in yards
2014 - 2nd in points, 7th in yards
2015 - 3rd in points, 7th in yards
2016 - 7th in points, 24th in yards

It's the best 4-year stretch of Chiefs defense in the last 40 years. Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.


Talent usually trumps coaching, I agree with that, but coaching is often the difference where the talent is RELATIVELY equal.

htismaqe
02-05-2019, 08:35 AM
You can't just morph it into "coaching doesn't matter". That's not the case.

Talent is the cake, coaching is the icing. Without coaching, you have a functional but dry dessert that seems incomplete. Without talent, you have a useless tub of sugary pseudo-pudding that only the most desperate would eat by itself.

htismaqe
02-05-2019, 08:36 AM
Talent usually trumps coaching, I agree with that, but coaching is often the difference where the talent is RELATIVELY equal.

Well duh. LOL

MahiMike
02-05-2019, 08:38 AM
I'd say it's the most prepared, detailed coaches. I'll say this. I saw Dee Ford offsides on almost a weekly basis. Didn't Sutton notice this when watching video? Apparently not. Why not? He could have "coached" him up and we would have a ring now.

RunKC
02-05-2019, 08:38 AM
Sorry, but you're wrong.

2013 - 5th in points, 24th in yards
2014 - 2nd in points, 7th in yards
2015 - 3rd in points, 7th in yards
2016 - 7th in points, 24th in yards

It's the best 4-year stretch of Chiefs defense in the last 40 years. Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.

To a point I guess.

Man Bill just put on a damn clinic this year. He destroyed the Chargers, he destroyed us for an entire half and he destroyed the Rams.

How much talent is on Bill’s defense? Honestly not much.

Coaching matters so much. It’s how the Patriots have these JAG’s like Van Noy, Harmon, Clayborn, Simon etc play so we’ll. Hell they lost Chung for the whole game and Hightower was out for about a quarter and guess what? They still dominated.

It’s all strategy.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-05-2019, 08:39 AM
Sorry, but you're wrong.

2013 - 5th in points, 24th in yards
2014 - 2nd in points, 7th in yards
2015 - 3rd in points, 7th in yards
2016 - 7th in points, 24th in yards

It's the best 4-year stretch of Chiefs defense in the last 40 years. Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.

I said OVERALL, "tissy"! Get off that cherry tree damnit! :D

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-05-2019, 08:41 AM
I'd say it's the most prepared, detailed coaches. I'll say this. I saw Dee Ford offsides on almost a weekly basis. Didn't Sutton notice this when watching video? Apparently not. Why not? He could have "coached" him up and we would have a ring now.

Are you kidding? Sutton was thinking about fly fishing and Werthers candies during film sessions.

TipRoast
02-05-2019, 08:45 AM
Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.
And with the draft, free agency and a salary cap, every team has roughly equal access to the same amount of talent.

Now, it's not exactly equal - if a team has a need for a QB and a high pick and it's a poor year for QBs, they may wind up with a Tim Couch or a Sam Bradford, whereas in a different year a team winds up with a Peyton Manning.

But talent can be found at all levels in the draft and in UDFAs. And resources can be allocated for free agents. Identification and acquisition of talent is critical.

But more critical than that is player development - and that's the role of coaching. How many first round draft choices fail to make it in the league because the didn't get the right coaching/mentoring at the professional level?

How many players fail with one franchise, only to succeed in their next venue when they link up with a coaching staff that can identify and develop their talent?

When the coaching level is the same, then the most-talented teams win.

When the talent level is the same, then the differences in coaching and team building become paramount.

Hoopsdoc
02-05-2019, 08:50 AM
Bit bizarre and cherry picked. The last Browns head coach to go to the playoffs, or win a playoff game is STILL Bill Belichick.

Brady is the GOAT, I certainly support that, but is he really THAT much better than Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, etc.? I'll certainly take Brady over those guys, but I think the margin of difference between Brady and those guys is closer than the margin between Belichick and everyone else. Between the coaching and the team-building aspects of what BB does, he's way ahead of the pack. It's not about putting together a roster of all-pros (not that anyone would turn them down), it's about putting together the best 53 man roster to win games.

Or, as Bum Philips said about Don Shula (paraphrased): "He can take his'n and beat your'n, or take your'n and beat his'n."
I’ve been saying this for years. Belichick is the one who has always buttered the biscuits in New England.

You could make the argument that Brady knows this as well, which is why he was so keen for the Pats to get rid of Garrappolo. He’s trying to protect his legacy.

Hammock Parties
02-05-2019, 08:54 AM
It's completely bizarre to think that every game is won by the team with more talent on the field. Coaching doesn't matter?


It does matter.

It didn't matter as much in those particular matchups, is all I'm saying, which is why the Chiefs won.

And if the Chiefs had had Marcus Peters and prime Berry out there this year instead of shit corners and safeties I'm guessing Belichick's superior coaching wouldn't have mattered again.

As it is, we were an offsides away from it not mattering.

Reerun_KC
02-05-2019, 09:07 AM
Patriots fan here. It is obvious that Reid is a very good coach.

The question I would have as a Chiefs fan is how intelligent/ruthless the Chiefs are in making smart salary cap situations.

That has been Patriots key to their success. 3 very good players often better than 1 great player and 2 below average ones. Literally over 18 years, they really just have one bad FA signing that was expensive that was a complete dud. Part of that is usually focusing on singles/doubles in FA and only going after stars when you are quite convinced they are worth the premium. Revis signed to only one year since he took discount. Gilmore signed long term since he was young.

Obviously not every Patriot player lives up to his contract but under BB the misses tend to not be that bad.

If a player is playing for stats, BB is very wiling to trade him in a heartbeat. He would rather just have smart intelligent robots/players out their that do their jobs in a tough minded manner.

I am not saying Chiefs players are selfish but when Randy Moss kind of turned selfish again and didn't want to change his expectations as a player after he slowed down, I think he was shipped out.

I am not saying BB would do it but with the way he thinks.....if he thought Mahomes could make below average/average receivers very good, he would be willing to trade those receivers for offensive lineman and defensive players.

Cooks isn't great but he was Patriots best outside receiver since Randy Moss. Patriots traded him for a first round pick since Cooks was due for a big contract and BB would rather invest money elsewhere.

I am not saying he wouldn't invest in Tyreek Hill but he wouldn't let fan sentiment get in the way.

Patriots are the organization that got rid of Adam Vinateri after he asked for too much money.

I think if the Chiefs act that ruthlessly and have competent management, they will win a title with Reid within 3-4 years as long as Mahomes is healthy.

Solid post.

Reerun_KC
02-05-2019, 09:08 AM
Sorry, but you're wrong.

2013 - 5th in points, 24th in yards
2014 - 2nd in points, 7th in yards
2015 - 3rd in points, 7th in yards
2016 - 7th in points, 24th in yards

It's the best 4-year stretch of Chiefs defense in the last 40 years. Talent ALWAYS trumps coaching.

And all that was wasted with a broke dick QB. Those were super bowl defenses.

KCChiefsFan88
02-05-2019, 09:15 AM
Doug Pederson... a.k.a. the HC who won a Super Bowl 12 months ago would seem to be in the category of HC's the OP refers to as "nice guys".

Coochie liquor
02-05-2019, 09:21 AM
Patriots fan here. It is obvious that Reid is a very good coach.

The question I would have as a Chiefs fan is how intelligent/ruthless the Chiefs are in making smart salary cap situations.

That has been Patriots key to their success. 3 very good players often better than 1 great player and 2 below average ones. Literally over 18 years, they really just have one bad FA signing that was expensive that was a complete dud. Part of that is usually focusing on singles/doubles in FA and only going after stars when you are quite convinced they are worth the premium. Revis signed to only one year since he took discount. Gilmore signed long term since he was young.

Obviously not every Patriot player lives up to his contract but under BB the misses tend to not be that bad.

If a player is playing for stats, BB is very wiling to trade him in a heartbeat. He would rather just have smart intelligent robots/players out their that do their jobs in a tough minded manner.

I am not saying Chiefs players are selfish but when Randy Moss kind of turned selfish again and didn't want to change his expectations as a player after he slowed down, I think he was shipped out.

I am not saying BB would do it but with the way he thinks.....if he thought Mahomes could make below average/average receivers very good, he would be willing to trade those receivers for offensive lineman and defensive players.

Cooks isn't great but he was Patriots best outside receiver since Randy Moss. Patriots traded him for a first round pick since Cooks was due for a big contract and BB would rather invest money elsewhere.

I am not saying he wouldn't invest in Tyreek Hill but he wouldn't let fan sentiment get in the way.

Patriots are the organization that got rid of Adam Vinateri after he asked for too much money.

I think if the Chiefs act that ruthlessly and have competent management, they will win a title with Reid within 3-4 years as long as Mahomes is healthy.

Doesn’t hurt to have your qb on a cheap deal because the owner is funneling money through his fitness business either, huh??

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 09:27 AM
I’ve been saying this for years. Belichick is the one who has always buttered the biscuits in New England.

You could make the argument that Brady knows this as well, which is why he was so keen for the Pats to get rid of Garrappolo. He’s trying to protect his legacy.


I agree with all this. I also think, however, that Brady is the perfect QB for Belichick. He is NOT thin-skinned (like Rodgers) and therefore can take the same abuse at team meetings as the 53rd guy on the roster. There are many stories about this. I remember Donte Stallworth saying when he arrived in New England at a meeting after an early practice that Belichick was LIGHTING BRADY THE F' UP. Stallworth sat up straighter in his chair and paid alot more attention after that thinking "Damn, if the three time SB winner, 2x SB MVP can get lit like that, ain't nobody safe".

That attitude is part of the reason for the Patriots' success.

Brady's toughness and team-oriented approach are also well-established and terrific.

They are a match made in heaven (or hell, YMMV).

Coochie liquor
02-05-2019, 09:28 AM
Bit bizarre and cherry picked. The last Browns head coach to go to the playoffs, or win a playoff game is STILL Bill Belichick.

Brady is the GOAT, I certainly support that, but is he really THAT much better than Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, etc.? I'll certainly take Brady over those guys, but I think the margin of difference between Brady and those guys is closer than the margin between Belichick and everyone else. Between the coaching and the team-building aspects of what BB does, he's way ahead of the pack. It's not about putting together a roster of all-pros (not that anyone would turn them down), it's about putting together the best 53 man roster to win games.

Or, as Bum Philips said about Don Shula (paraphrased): "He can take his'n and beat your'n, or take your'n and beat his'n."

BB coached Cleveland in 2002??

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 09:28 AM
It does matter.

It didn't matter as much in those particular matchups, is all I'm saying, which is why the Chiefs won.

And if the Chiefs had had Marcus Peters and prime Berry out there this year instead of shit corners and safeties I'm guessing Belichick's superior coaching wouldn't have mattered again.

As it is, we were an offsides away from it not mattering.


Luck always plays a factor, as does health. If the Patriots had a healthy team in 2015 (damn near everyone was hurt) then I like our chances fine against the Broncos that year, and I think Dont'a Hightower helps make one stop against the Iggles, and now the Pats win 5 in a row.

:shrug:

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. None of it matters.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 09:29 AM
BB coached Cleveland in 2002??


Sorry, you're right. I had the stat wrong. BB is the last Browns coach to WIN a playoff game, but not the last one to go to one.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 09:30 AM
Doesn’t hurt to have your qb on a cheap deal because the owner is funneling money through his fitness business either, huh??


ROFL I love the made up scandals. Nothing better.

Reerun_KC
02-05-2019, 09:35 AM
Doug Pederson... a.k.a. the HC who won a Super Bowl 12 months ago would seem to be in the category of HC's the OP refers to as "nice guys".

With a QB that CP thought was trash.

Foles will always be a Super Bowl winning QB. Alex will not.

KCChiefsFan88
02-05-2019, 09:42 AM
ROFL I love the made up scandals. Nothing better.

So you are denying that the Faketriots were paying for services provided by the TB12 Sports Therapy Center... a.k.a. the LLC owned/operated by Tom Brady and his steroid dealer/business partner Alex Guerrero?

Hammock Parties
02-05-2019, 09:46 AM
Luck always plays a factor, as does health. If the Patriots had a healthy team in 2015 (damn near everyone was hurt) then I like our chances fine against the Broncos that year, and I think Dont'a Hightower helps make one stop against the Iggles, and now the Pats win 5 in a row.

:shrug:

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. None of it matters.

Well, yeah.

Just saying OP is wrong.

We lost because of talent, period. Nothing else.

O.city
02-05-2019, 09:55 AM
It's talent AND coaching.

The great thing about Belicheck is that he's game to game. He doesn't line up and do the same thing "because it's what we do". He morphs his defense to beat each individual offense.

Amnorix
02-05-2019, 10:09 AM
So you are denying that the Faketriots were paying for services provided by the TB12 Sports Therapy Center... a.k.a. the LLC owned/operated by Tom Brady and his steroid dealer/business partner Alex Guerrero?


I don't know if the Patriots were paying for those services, or if they were separately paid for by the players. Entirely possible that the Patriots were paying for them.

I have no idea what the rules are around players owning other entities and their business dealings with the clubs in connection with the salary cap and permissible compensation, but it's not like that entity is some shady, under-the-radar thing. It's not only well documented, Brady touts it. I would certainly think that the Patriots and NFL double and triple checked to make sure that whatever was happening was in compliance with the salary cap requirements.

Let's face it, the Patriots are on a zero tolerance policy due to the past fiascos. I'm pretty sure Robert Kraft wasn't like "fuck it, let's do what we want and see if the NFL complaints or not." Not really a risk he can take.

KCChiefsFan88
02-05-2019, 10:16 AM
I don't know if the Patriots were paying for those services, or if they were separately paid for by the players. Entirely possible that the Patriots were paying for them.

I have no idea what the rules are around players owning other entities and their business dealings with the clubs in connection with the salary cap and permissible compensation, but it's not like that entity is some shady, under-the-radar thing. It's not only well documented, Brady touts it. I would certainly think that the Patriots and NFL double and triple checked to make sure that whatever was happening was in compliance with the salary cap requirements.

Let's face it, the Patriots are on a zero tolerance policy due to the past fiascos. I'm pretty sure Robert Kraft wasn't like "**** it, let's do what we want and see if the NFL complaints or not." Not really a risk he can take.

ROFL are you displaying that classic "head in the sand, nothing to see here" mentality that is a prerequisite for riding on the Faketriots bandwagon?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html?curator=SportsREDEF

The Patriots, in an unusual departure from National Football League practice, have created a revenue stream for a private business owned by their franchise quarterback, Tom Brady, and a partner who faced federal sanctions after falsely presenting himself as a medical doctor and deceptively promoting nutritional supplements.

Guerrero’s past has not dissuaded the Patriots from forging a business relationship with the company he owns with Brady, the TB12 Sports Therapy Center, at the Patriots Place complex adjacent to Gillette Stadium. Since the center opened in 2013, the team has paid the company for Guerrero and his staff to provide treatment services and nutritional advice to multiple Patriots players.

The Globe did not determine how many players Guerrero and his staff have treated or how much money the Patriots have paid Brady and Guerrero’s company. The team and the two principals all declined to comment.

The NFL says it is aware of the arrangement and has taken no action, despite questions from some specialists in sports law and economics about whether teams should pay for services by for-profit companies owned by their active players and whether the relationship provides value to Brady that should be counted against the club’s salary cap.

Some of Guerrero’s former associates also wondered why Brady and the Patriots would want to forge financial relationships with an entrepreneur whose history of legal trouble includes business partners accusing him of fraud.

Monty
02-05-2019, 10:28 AM
A friend of mine, talking about our game said, "I think in their mind the Chiefs had already won their Super Bowl. They embarrassed the Colts, AFCCG was at Arrowhead for the first time, They were on par with Bill/Brady. They were happy instead of hungry and mad."

This all day, but next year will be a different story now that they have a chance to reset the bar.

Hog's Gone Fishin
02-05-2019, 12:57 PM
Patriots fan here. It is obvious that Reid is a very good coach.

The question I would have as a Chiefs fan is how intelligent/ruthless the Chiefs are in making smart salary cap situations.

That has been Patriots key to their success. 3 very good players often better than 1 great player and 2 below average ones. Literally over 18 years, they really just have one bad FA signing that was expensive that was a complete dud. Part of that is usually focusing on singles/doubles in FA and only going after stars when you are quite convinced they are worth the premium. Revis signed to only one year since he took discount. Gilmore signed long term since he was young.

Obviously not every Patriot player lives up to his contract but under BB the misses tend to not be that bad.

If a player is playing for stats, BB is very wiling to trade him in a heartbeat. He would rather just have smart intelligent robots/players out their that do their jobs in a tough minded manner.

I am not saying Chiefs players are selfish but when Randy Moss kind of turned selfish again and didn't want to change his expectations as a player after he slowed down, I think he was shipped out.

I am not saying BB would do it but with the way he thinks.....if he thought Mahomes could make below average/average receivers very good, he would be willing to trade those receivers for offensive lineman and defensive players.

Cooks isn't great but he was Patriots best outside receiver since Randy Moss. Patriots traded him for a first round pick since Cooks was due for a big contract and BB would rather invest money elsewhere.

I am not saying he wouldn't invest in Tyreek Hill but he wouldn't let fan sentiment get in the way.

Patriots are the organization that got rid of Adam Vinateri after he asked for too much money.

I think if the Chiefs act that ruthlessly and have competent management, they will win a title with Reid within 3-4 years as long as Mahomes is healthy.

How'd Gordon work out for ya?

Rasputin
02-05-2019, 12:58 PM
Outscoring the opponent wins every time.

Hog's Gone Fishin
02-05-2019, 01:00 PM
Well, yeah.

Just saying OP is wrong.

We lost because of talent, period. Nothing else.

We lost because Dumbass Dee Ford lined up in the neutral zone. Nothing Else.

A Defiant Goose
02-05-2019, 01:02 PM
How'd Gordon work out for ya?

Ended up giving us probably an extra win or two, ensuring that your team didn't go one-and-done to New England. Josh Gordon is the reason you got to enjoy your first home playoff win in 25 years lol

A Defiant Goose
02-05-2019, 01:03 PM
We lost because Dumbass Dee Ford lined up in the neutral zone. Nothing Else.

You were lucky that Gronk tipped a wide open easy pass to get it intercepted in the first place. It balances out.

A Defiant Goose
02-05-2019, 01:05 PM
ROFL are you displaying that classic "head in the sand, nothing to see here" mentality that is a prerequisite for riding on the Faketriots bandwagon?

So, the NFL doesn't care. Thanks for the info bro. Maybe KC can follow suit and buy Mahomes a muppet baby daycare center to incentivize him taking a lower salary

TinyEvel
02-06-2019, 12:13 AM
Well, yeah.

Just saying OP is wrong.

We lost because of talent, period. Nothing else.

if we lost because of talent, where was that talent in the first half? 0 points in the first half, 31 in the second half.

Same talent on the field. Adjustments at halftime = coaches.

If you are saying the act of Dee ford lining up offsides is why we didn't win. That's talent, because its one guy. OK. But it's also coaching.

The team not being ready. Kelce saying they were jamming him at the LOS and doubling Tyreek all game. Belichick is famous for taking away something

We even had a long thread about it. Had to know it was Kelce and or Hill.

I'm just saying I'd sure as hell prefer about 25 percent less "aww Shucks" and 25 percent more "eye of the tiger" from the top down.

tk13
02-06-2019, 12:42 AM
I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with being a nice guy. Dungy and Pete Carroll won Super Bowls. Plus it's not like Reid doesn't ride guys. Look at the story from when they drafted Kelce and Reid called him and basically chewed him out and told him he better not screw up.

It's not like the Patriots are perfect but they are very well coached. You have to be on the ball, and if you screw up (like the offsides play) they always make you pay for it. Even if you have more talent than them you have to play a smart football game and adjust to what they do. Sometimes it feels like what they do is common sense, but they seem to do it and other teams don't.

tk13
02-06-2019, 01:03 AM
Talent usually trumps coaching, I agree with that, but coaching is often the difference where the talent is RELATIVELY equal.

I think there's plenty of times NE has beat more talented teams, including this year. So I'm the first to say talent isn't everything. They negate talent differential with smart gameplans and adjustments.

That said, the teams that usually beat the Patriots have talent on defense. The Giants two Super Bowl teams, the Broncos teams that beat them in the AFC title game, they were loaded on defense, at least up front to get pressure on Brady. Even the Eagles last year had several talented pass rushers. Brady ended up throwing for a lot of yards in that game but the Eagles pass rush got the last laugh by hitting him and causing the fumble that finished off the game. You have to have some pure talent on defense for sure to hang with a team like New England.

But to be fair I've said that for years so I'm probably biased. Teams that are all offense and no defense never win, and I figured it'd eventually catch up to the Chiefs. You have to have pass rushers because in the playoffs you're going to face great QBs and you have to be able to disrupt them. Otherwise you can still win, but you're basically leaving it up to a coin flip of who has the ball last, and that was literally how our season ended this year.

TinyEvel
02-06-2019, 01:06 AM
DEFENSE DOESN'T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

COACHES DON'T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

COINS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 06:47 AM
Refs win championships. Ford got called but in the SB Gronk is lined up in the neutral zone on the big pass play buy no flag. Brady gets another assist to his sham of a career.

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 07:20 AM
I have to agree that Andy's going to need to have the overall environment around the team be a lot more business like. And there should be no mistake, we're looking for gladiators. We have some, but we also have too many Eric Winstons running around.

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 07:23 AM
Refs win championships. Ford got called but in the SB Gronk is lined up in the neutral zone on the big pass play buy no flag. Brady gets another assist to his sham of a career.

Oh, what you describe could clearly fall under the "we were letting them play" and "it didn't materially affect the play" rules.

KChiefs1
02-06-2019, 07:25 AM
Is Spags a hardass?

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 07:36 AM
Oh, what you describe could clearly fall under the "we were letting them play" and "it didn't materially affect the play" rules.

Neither did Ford. Brady threw the pick and the ref threw the flag after the pick. Pats are a ref induced sham.

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 07:47 AM
Neither did Ford. Brady threw the pick and the ref threw the flag after the pick. Pats are a ref induced sham.

Yes, we know. But that fell under the, "well he did do it AND by calling the penalty 'this time' it'll help Kraft, BB, Brady, and Roger" rule... It's not in the rule book, but it's real nonetheless.

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 07:49 AM
Is Spags a hardass?

https://media.giphy.com/media/GEUOs9yMw1OpO/giphy.gif

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 07:55 AM
Neither did Ford. Brady threw the pick and the ref threw the flag after the pick. Pats are a ref induced sham.

ROFL The guy was a full yard offsides. JFC you are the biggest crybaby.

Oh, and hey, lookee here, a video that proves what a dumb fucking liar you are.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000001012331/Dee-Ford-lines-up-offsides-on-would-be-interception


Ref throws flat at 6 seconds mark. Flag hits turf at 7/8 second mark. BALL IS STILL IN BRADY'S FUCKING HAND.

You are a joke. I'm not even kidding. It's fine to be a homer, but you are the worst.

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 08:16 AM
Let me make it even easier. Here's a screen shot of the video above at the 8 second mark.

Ball in Brady's hand.

Flag ALREADY ON THE GROUND at the feet of the ref at the top of the screen (slightly to the left of the blue LOS line).

Fucking liar.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 08:27 AM
Fine, my mistake. Gronk in the neutral zone and no flag is legit and another no call to help Brady win. We played them twice and they had one flag. That is big evidence of the bias. Lats year playoff game against the Jags, one penalty. You see pattern here? Just google it, much has been written about it. Refs give them a pass all the time.

Rausch
02-06-2019, 08:32 AM
ROFL The guy was a full yard offsides. JFC you are the biggest crybaby.

Oh, and hey, lookee here, a video that proves what a dumb ****ing liar you are.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000001012331/Dee-Ford-lines-up-offsides-on-would-be-interception


Ref throws flat at 6 seconds mark. Flag hits turf at 7/8 second mark. BALL IS STILL IN BRADY'S ****ING HAND.

You are a joke. I'm not even kidding. It's fine to be a homer, but you are the worst.

The Chiefs had plenty of opportunities to win the game. Hell, the Pats had to come back twice just to win.

In games that close you can't squander opportunities. The refs WILL make mistakes. We all know it. It's not fair but that's never going to change...

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 08:36 AM
Fine, my mistake. Gronk in the neutral zone and no flag is legit and another no call to help Brady win. We played them twice and they had one flag. That is big evidence of the bias. Lats year playoff game against the Jags, one penalty. You see pattern here? Just google it, much has been written about it. Refs give them a pass all the time.


Did I mention that you are the fucking worst? Yeah, cuz I meant it. You just don't know WTF you're talking about and should just stop.

In the AFCCG the Pats had 6 penalties for 61 yards, while the Chiefs had 4 for 28.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401038850


I can't decide what is worse from you -- all the lying or all the crying. But you should definitely quit while you're waaay behind.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 08:43 AM
Did I mention that you are the ****ing worst? Yeah, cuz I meant it. You just don't know WTF you're talking about and should just stop.

In the AFCCG the Pats had 6 penalties for 61 yards, while the Chiefs had 4 for 28.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401038850


I can't decide what is worse from you -- all the lying or all the crying. But you should definitely quit while you're waaay behind.

I'm just enjoying you having to type all this hateful crap. It's a great day.

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 08:44 AM
I'm just enjoying you having to type all this hateful crap. It's a great day.


I usually don't consider days when I'm made to look like a complete moron to be great days, but you probably are far more used to it than I am, so to each their own.

I also like how pointing out your many mistakes/lies equals "hateful crap." :rolleyes: You should hang out in the DC forum -- clearly the truth holds no boundaries for you.

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 08:49 AM
Neither did Ford. Brady threw the pick and the ref threw the flag after the pick. Pats are a ref induced sham.

The flag was thrown once the ball was hiked and before it even reached Brady in the shotgun. The ref saw Ford offsides and had his hand on the flag waiting for the snap.

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 08:51 AM
Luck always plays a factor, as does health. If the Patriots had a healthy team in 2015 (damn near everyone was hurt) then I like our chances fine against the Broncos that year, and I think Dont'a Hightower helps make one stop against the Iggles, and now the Pats win 5 in a row.

:shrug:

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. None of it matters.

Yes health and luck have a lot to do with winning in the single elimination playoffs. I was glad that we were basically healthy in the playoffs and think that we paced ourselves during the season.

I do agree that injuries hurt our chance in 2015 AFCCG and last year SB, i think the Hightower loss was big.

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 09:00 AM
Browns:

1990 (pre-Belichick): 3-13
1991 (Belichick): 6-10
1992: (Belichick): 7-9
1993: (Belichick): 7-9
1994: 11-5, won playoff game (to this day the last one the Browns have won)
1995: Modell announces mid-season that the Browns are moving. City/team spiral to an ugly 5-11 finish


Meanwhile, Peyton/Brees/Rodgers COMBINED have gone to fewer Super Bowls in a combined 44 seasons, and have won fewer Super Bowls, than BB/Brady have in their 17 healthy seasons together. I think Tom Brady is the f'ing GOAT, but is he really light years better than those guys? Or is the difference that given a GREAT QB, BB makes much more out of it than those other coaches can?

BB certainly did well in Cleveland by help getting the team on its feet, and it went on to win in Baltimore.

BB is a great coach and i would not want another and is certainly part of the Pats run in the last 17 years.

At the same time though BB is 0.500 ish with the Pats without Brady. He went 5-11 with Bledsoe in his first year. And was 0-2 in 2001.

In the end it is tough to decide who should get more credit, BB or TB. For me all great coaches and QBs need a compliment of a great coach and great QB. Which we have seen in history Starr/Lombardi, Staubach/Landry, Noll/Bradshaw, Stabler/Madden, Walsh/Montana, Manning/Dungy, etc.

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 09:03 AM
Doesn’t hurt to have your qb on a cheap deal because the owner is funneling money through his fitness business either, huh??

Brady has always taken under market deals in his career and/or has restructured his contract, so it is not a recent thing.

With that said, I am not totally comfortable with players going to the TB12 clinic even if the Pats are not paying for it. TB is gaining some benefit from having a supply of Pats players at the ready to come to his clinic.

It may not be much money in the grand scheme of things, so it might not matter that much, but it is some money going to TB12.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 09:03 AM
I usually don't consider days when I'm made to look like a complete moron to be great days, but you probably are far more used to it than I am, so to each their own.

I also like how pointing out your many mistakes/lies equals "hateful crap." :rolleyes: You should hang out in the DC forum -- clearly the truth holds no boundaries for you.

You're missing the point. I was just having fun with you. I know when the flag was thrown. The offsides was Fords stupidity and Bradys luck. Without that one penalty the entire narrative would have changed. His 3rd pick to lose the game.

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 09:05 AM
Yes health and luck have a lot to do with winning in the single elimination playoffs. I was glad that we were basically healthy in the playoffs and think that we paced ourselves during the season.

I do agree that injuries hurt our chance in 2015 AFCCG and last year SB, i think the Hightower loss was big.

Yeah, especially considering Hightower had the key tackle on Lynch at the goal line the play before the Butler pick in '14, had the key sack of Ryan to push them out of FG range in '16 and played very well last Sunday. He's been absolutely critical in all of the SB wins.

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 09:05 AM
You're missing the point. I was just having fun with you. I know when the flag was thrown. The offsides was Fords stupidity and Bradys luck. Without that one penalty the entire narrative would have changed. His 3rd pick to lose the game.

Sure champ. We all believe you.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 09:06 AM
Why is it you come here and bash everything we say about the Pats? Do any of us do the same on Pats boards?

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 09:08 AM
You're missing the point. I was just having fun with you. I know when the flag was thrown. The offsides was Fords stupidity and Bradys luck. Without that one penalty the entire narrative would have changed. His 3rd pick to lose the game.

Yah, that Dee Ford penalty was painful, especially as it did not effect the play.

The only silver lining might be that the Pats driving as they were doing caused the defense to want to get an extra jump and thus he lined up off sides. And so on a small level it might of been influenced by the Pats and was not a 100% bonehead move.

Either way, it was a harsh call and tough for the team and Chiefs fans.

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 09:11 AM
Yeah, especially considering Hightower had the key tackle on Lynch at the goal line the play before the Butler pick in '14, had the key sack of Ryan to push them out of FG range in '16 and played very well last Sunday. He's been absolutely critical in all of the SB wins.

Agreed. I was worried about the injuries going into last years playoffs, especially Highhtower being a playmaker, signal caller, and helped the front 7 get lined up.

And yes, given his playing making as you mentioned in both SBs 49/51, was worried we might miss that in the playoffs. Perhaps we did.

Rawlsian
02-06-2019, 09:13 AM
Y'all mad already. It's hump day

Yehoodi
02-06-2019, 09:16 AM
Coaching and defense both help in the playoffs, and well all games. There are three phases of the game, offense, defense and special teams.

I am glad that BB focuses on all three phases in the team building and time during the week.

As some have already mentioned, the Pats do not go for shiny players or high priced players but preferred to go with a solid 53 players and distribute the money among the 53 players more evenly to have the middle or lower half of the roster be more talented.

I do think that the Pats practice more so than other teams and hold on to smart players.

If player make a mistake on the field on in practice, there is a chance you will loose your spot. do it too many times, and you are off the team.

LanTera
02-06-2019, 09:24 AM
As for me talent can help but without teamwork its all trash

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 10:16 AM
Sure champ. We all believe you.

I don't care if you believe me or not. I'm not the one all bent out of shape name calling. I can be realistic and objeslctive about the Chiefs but you are not about the Pats. No matter what they do or have done you think they are right or no big deal. But that's ok bud, it's almost over and I suspect we will all hear a lot less out of you.

KCChiefsFan88
02-06-2019, 10:53 AM
You are a joke. I'm not even kidding. It's fine to be a homer, but you are the worst.

Ironic that you are calling someone else a joke when you are nothing more than a bandwagoning fraud.

Amnorix
02-06-2019, 11:05 AM
Ironic that you are calling someone else a joke when you are nothing more than a bandwagoning fraud.


Bandwagoning? I'm born and raised in eastern Mass., and am a fan of all of the Boston professional sports teams from long before they (other than the Celtics) were anything but terrible. I can tell you more than you'd ever want to hear about Steve Grogan, Steamin' Stanley Morgan, John Hannah, Squish the Fish, 2-14 and 1-15 seasons, Ron Ehrhart and Rod Rust, Dick MacPherson, Ron Meyer, Raymond Berry, Irving Fryar and "cut his hand on a knife", that idiot Victor Kiam and the stupid women in the locker room "scandal", Roy Orthwein and Bill Parcells, Terry Glenn / "she", and whatever else you want to discuss from before the absurd BB/Brady dynasty.

So good luck with that smack -- maybe you should try it on some millenial somewhere and see if it works better for you.

KCChiefsFan88
02-06-2019, 11:12 AM
Bandwagoning? I'm born and raised in eastern Mass., and am a fan of all of the Boston professional sports teams from long before they (other than the Celtics) were anything but terrible. I can tell you more than you'd ever want to hear about Steve Grogan, Steamin' Stanley Morgan, John Hannah, Squish the Fish, 2-14 and 1-15 seasons, Ron Ehrhart and Rod Rust, Dick MacPherson, Ron Meyer, Raymond Berry, Irving Fryar and "cut his hand on a knife", that idiot Victor Kiam and the stupid women in the locker room "scandal", Roy Orthwein and Bill Parcells, Terry Glenn / "she", and whatever else you want to discuss from before the absurd BB/Brady dynasty.

So good luck with that smack -- maybe you should try it on some millenial somewhere and see if it works better for you.

ROFL impressive copy/paste job from Wikipedia to create the mirage that you have any recollection of the Faketriots history pre-Brady/Belichick.

You are a fraud, thanks for confirming.

Hog's Gone Fishin
02-06-2019, 12:47 PM
Why is it you come here and bash everything we say about the Pats? Do any of us do the same on Pats boards?

I Do

ricko1112
02-06-2019, 12:57 PM
Ok, fellow Patriots fans lets leave these guys alone now. It's time to go watch the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins win the offseason again!

Oh, and yes, fans from other teams blow up the Pats board after each and every loss...

htismaqe
02-06-2019, 01:06 PM
Thank God.

Red Dawg
02-06-2019, 01:18 PM
I Do

Well ok then. Go party.

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 02:12 PM
I usually don't consider days when I'm made to look like a complete moron to be great days, but you probably are far more used to it than I am, so to each their own.

I also like how pointing out your many mistakes/lies equals "hateful crap." :rolleyes: You should hang out in the DC forum -- clearly the truth holds no boundaries for you.

Now that you got that off your chest, care to make excuses for the RTP calls that were 100% wrong?

I know, I know, NOW the officials are only human. Or wait, "but PEDelman was hit hard:.... Jump to those lily pads Mr. Frog..

GloryDayz
02-06-2019, 02:13 PM
Ok, fellow Patriots fans lets leave these guys alone now. It's time to go watch the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins win the offseason again!

Oh, and yes, fans from other teams blow up the Pats board after each and every loss...

Bye.. And take your pressure cooker with you!

Pussy...

Angry fan
02-06-2019, 05:02 PM
Refs win championships. Ford got called but in the SB Gronk is lined up in the neutral zone on the big pass play buy no flag. Brady gets another assist to his sham of a career.
Yeah I noticed that too, Red Dawg. I was wondering about it. I'm assuming it's ok for the offense to line up in the neutral zone?

Or worse, the refs decided to listen to Andy Reid's complaint that the player should get a warning instead so they didn't throw the flag.LMAO

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-06-2019, 06:26 PM
How did we ever get so blessed by the presence of these fucktards? Cassel and Peeholi are long gone, shouldn't these clowns follow suit?